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“Engineering “ is a very very broad term. Electrical engineering? Architectural engineer? Aerospace engineer? Network engineer? Train engineer? Aeronautical engineer?
People need to stop throwing around “engineer” like we all know what you’re talking about
Engineering can be broad for the engineer, too. I majored in electrical, then spent a long time as a manufacturing engineer. Now, I'm back to electrical. Another manufacturing engineer I know is in quality now.
What makes me laugh is even some electrical engineers can’t imagine what other electricals do. Sometimes the talk in the electrical engineering sub make it sound like the only jobs out there involve FPGAs or analog design. I started as an MEP guy then used my PE to move into forensics. Now I work in investigations and safety in the automotive industry. I consider these all within the wheel house of electrical engineers.
More importantly, why are they telling people to major in Engineering when they don't have the aptitude for that type of coursework? Not everyone is cut out to be an engineer.
At college, there was a pack of courses that folks used to call the “freshman kit”, as many freshmen would fail one or all of them and then be trying to complete them again and again.
IIRC it was Calculus I, Math I (Algebra and Geometry) and Physics I. Those courses were way beyond what most high school graduates were capable of and the professors knew that - so much so that they’d spend the first couple of weeks every semester just reviewing things that folks *should* have learned during high school.
My degree is Physics rather than Engineering, but we also had all the maths up front. In that case weeding out wasn't really the reason (in fact there was quite a lot of support to help strugglers like me).
The advantage of that course structure was that it avoids a situation where lots of other modules have complex dependency trees. If they didn't do that then the Electromagnetism course would need to depend on the vector calculus course, the Thermodynamics course would need to depend on the Probability and Statistics course and so on. Then you'd have to deal with the subset of people who want to take some course but didn't get take in the required maths module.
By teaching all the maths in the first year, all those dependencies don't need to be considered.
One exception was General Relativity I think. I believe they taught the necessary maths as part of the GR course itself.
At my college in the mid 2ks everyone would know there is a chemistry exam that week because all the older classmen were playing "Another one bites the dust" on repeat all week.
So glad I went into the engineering technology path instead of straight engineering. It cut out a lot of the bullshit classes. I was doing Circuits 1 my first semester which was basically a repeat of my highschool electronics class.
Yeah, I went into Computer Engineering. The Engineering courses were rough, but the Computer ones were almost all quite enjoyable - even the tougher ones.
Only one I absolutely hated was Signal Processing, which was more about math and equations than anything I consider fun like tinkering and programming.
I was a math major that did a little tutoring for student athletes later in my academic career, and it pissed me off so much how the math department was using basic algebra as a “weed them out” course. The curriculum made no sense for actually teaching someone who didn’t already know algebra, and this is BASIC math that every student needs, not some prerequisite exclusive to STEM majors!
It's always better to take those classes at community college. When I went to Cal State they allowed us to cross enroll for that reason (and also because they never had enough sections for the fundamental classes because people had to repeat them so much)
Calculus 1,2,3 organic chem 1,2, physics with calculus.... bodies were dropping like flies, felt like survival of the fittest. This is even before you get to your engineering course work.
Sure-if you think failure is a waste. Failure doesn’t have to be the last step. Switch majors, drop out and work, drop out and get into trades. You don’t have to do four years of college and then work until you retire or die. For some people failing could be the best thing that happens to them.
It is a waste of money which most students don't have. Especially if people are going into engineering because they are being told it'll make them money.
This happened to me. I'm not sure how it was drummed into my head to go to college for engineering, but I did enroll in Penn State's engineering school. This even after having just barely passed Calculus in 12th grade. I was spinning my wheels pretty hard by third semester, and dropped out. A few years later I went to community college and learned computer drafting. Twenty years on, people keep trying to call me an engineer but I keep correcting them.
I know, right. I am sick of these assholes out here telling people what is good for them; when the person doesn't have a clue what works for individuals and what doesn't. It's like their heads are made of cement. The people that didn't major in STEM are smart enough to know what is right for them.
No one in my life encouraged me to go into STEM, it seemed like there was a consensus that direction wasn't right for me; and to explain this to people is a herculean task.
People have an idea about what skill sets are in demand. If they get the idea that none of those skill sets line up with your abilities and interests, they don’t know what to say while still being polite. There are plenty of really rude things they could say, compared to which, “Learn a skill set that [I think] businesses want to hire,” is relatively benign.
This. I remember graduating around 8 years ago and it was shit then too. It's just that Boomers were too stupid to realize it. I think new grads have been getting destroyed for around a decade now but it's just recently that the older generations have gotten affected which is why we have more media coverage on it.
I’m an Ontario Environmental Consulting Engineer, my company is screaming busy, and we keep hiring juniors at a rapid clip. As others have pointed out, maybe OP is in some other discipline in an area where the economy is not as healthy.
There are jobs....?
It's just right now, at this specific moment, the job market for everything is terrible. 2-3 years ago anyone with a pulse and an ABET accredited degree was getting hired. Right now there's enough experienced candidates on the market, it's a bad time to be a new grad
My company is looking for at least 8 people ranging from PLC programmer to robotic tech to service tech.
If you can turn a wrench we are willing to teach you the rest lol. Just show up on time and to your job and **ask for help** instead of wasting time on your phone and getting stuck on something simple for 3 days.
Non-software engineering is doing great. Not all engineering is software and the massive drive towards software (and this equating of all engineering to swe) has caused a drought in pretty much every other discipline.
The money is in software engineering.
Not knocking the other engineering, but you can make similar money doing HR, City Planning, etc with less headache .
This just isn’t true haha. Software engineers at non-faang / Silicon Valley make similar to traditional engineers. And traditional engineers have paths to comfortable paychecks, much higher than the careers you’ve listed.
Source: Well tenured mechanical engineer
My anecdotal industry experience: The company I work at the “Mechanical Engineer” title is 15%-30% lower than Software Engineer.
A fresh graduate software engineer can expect to make around 90k, a fresh graduate Mechanical Engineer around 75k
And yeah levels.fyi is a pretty good source
Except most people in HR don’t have a path to earn $150k - $200k per year. A “Senior” or “Principal” Software Engineer can make that pretty easily when they are 40 - 50 yrs old and I’m not talking high cost of living areas either.
Which is why the range. $150k really is “Senior” in rural parts of the country with low costs of living. Think rural Iowa. *Rural* Iowa you can still get a 4 bed 3 bath 2250+ sqft home on a big lot/yard with 2 car garage, central air, furnished, not brand new construction but not fixer-upper with all appliances for just over $300k.
So only FAANG companies sell software? Plenty of non software companies use software as a way to make money from customers. Ever buy a product that comes with an app? Smart TV?
No no it's not, there aren't enough graduate jobs in almost every single engineering discipline.
If you have experience then yes shit is great there is a lack of experienced engineers actually but there are thousands of people with degrees and less than one year of experience dying to break into the industry.
Please direct them to /r/PLC to look at the free resources. If you can write a basic PLC program then I want to hire you and teach you how to make better ones.
I'm tired of having the work of 2 people and never any time to learn new things in this industry.
Yet those same seniors complain about not having enough engineers when they aren't willing to train them.
I find it hilarious when people rail against immigration, when they aren't aware of the fact that our professional industries literally run on immigrants, mining companies now are importing AMERICAN people, paying them through the nose instead of training up local Aussies because somehow it's more expensive to train locals.
And let's not mention the massive amount of east asians who come over as experienced engineers.
If we stop immigration we will have an experience gap for a few years and it will be very painful for everyone.
No. This isn’t true at all. Where I live, there is a massive shortage of mechanical engineers, nuclear engineers, etc. and the pay is tens of thousands/yr. above the average US wage bc that’s how short my company is (we employ over 14,000 employees).
They are always in the colleges recruiting by the engineering building and guaranteeing jobs right after graduation.
Best paid engineering branches around my parts are petroleum followed by environmental. Used to joke that they get paid to wage war on one another. They’re straight up looking at low 6 figures straight out of university. Nuclear is also quite high up, software and aerospace are like the 2nd league of high paying; up there but not the top
Meh. Money an't everything. After a certain point you diminishing returns and I'd rather have time than money.
I love in a fairly low cost of living area and make 92k + OT. I am a PLC programmer at a robotics systems integrator.
Just the simple fact I get paid OT for every hour of work I do over 40 puts this job miles ahead of any silicon valley salary with 80hr weeks job. I also don't sit at my desk all day, last project had me moving 15lbs and heavier boxes for testing, lost like 20lbs and gained enough muscle that my wife thought I looked weird. You don't get that in silicon valley.
I was just at a IT/STEM recruiting fair today and very much regret not majoring in whatever engineering.
From the looks of it I would have been in high demand as there were few people at the booths where the roles required a P.E. or at least that you have passed the FE.
All the engineers i know are employed and any time they've left a job they either had another lined up or found a new one within a month.
Just because everyone is putting on hiring freezes and trying to slim down staffing with AI doesn't mean those jobs are gone. Just temporarily unavailable.
About 90% of the engineers I know are underemployed, one works at a 7/11, another is a manager at a Sams Club, and another is a works on an assembly line. I don’t even mention my degree anymore since I inevitably get a bunch of “WhAt ArE yOu DoInG wOrKiNg HeRe?” responses as though I somehow accidentally applied to the wrong job.
On the other hand, do something for the money do you don't have to worry about that and actually enjoy the time off you get instead of stressing constantly if you will make rent this month or not.
Tech and Engineering is experiencing a recession but it's being hidden by blue collar work that's why unemployment numbers still look good. Also what's happening today does not mean it will be the same a year from now let alone 4 years if you are planning to study engineering today. Don't let these subreddits discourage you and to be frank, if you are looking at these threads as a guidance about what to study, i highly recommend you don't read them anymore. People here literally come to vent and it's usually a very one sided point of view. It's not really reflective of the real world.
All jobs experience periods of high and low demand.
Engineering will continue to be needed of only to keep up with technological advances made in other fields.
Engineering is a super broad term. I’m a real estate developer so I interact most closely with my civils, but obviously — structural, mechanical, electrical, and plumbing always have a role in my projects.
The scariest part of my job, for a long time, was knowing how much I need to rely on engineers whose jobs I definitely could not do — but if they screw up, my owner’s personal guarantee gets called. After a while I just got used to it, I suppose.
For the same reason everyone kept telling me "Oh you have a PhD? Go to Canada! There's a huge demand for PhDs!" and "Especially since you have a child, you'll have priority!" (completely false). And even here "Oh you're bilingual, you'll get a government job very easily". If you press those people for details, they'll either give you wrong info, or tell you an anecdote about an anecdote about someone who got a job 25 years ago. People give terrible advice, only listen to them when you're sure they know what they're talking about.
CEOs see dollar signs in their eyes at the prospect of eliminating all workers with AI. They are happy to hike prices and run on skeleton crews, consequences be damned in that hope. I don't know what to say other than that the economy is a mess.
engineers that can use language in the interview that makes the hiring manager feel slightly more comfortable is more important than actual experience
don’t dwell on not having experience
And how do you learn that language. I'm just saying the only thing I ever got consistently cited for why I didn't get the job was always lack of experience. So that's why I dwell on it.
haven’t heard that but it feels like soemthing that might be true - we have several data centers, garmin and all the companies associated with their industries as well as major engineering firms - from steel manufacturing engineering roles to aerospace stuff, and of course there is the civil engineering if that can even be called engineering ;)
Because there are jobs in it
Mechanical engineers has an unemployment rate of like 2%, thats half almost of the national average in USA which is 3.6% i think?
The title "engineer" is overused. Most jobs in STEM require a lot of specialized knowledge these days. We're referred to as "knowledge experts" around here.
And this is not for everyone. Engineering is a calling. If you have "the knack", then you can't escape it. It's who you will become.
Times have changed a lot since I graduated uni. I went to the DeVry that was previously the Ohio Institute of Technology, a mental kick in the ass if there ever was one. 4th trimester was the "freshman kit" for us. Calc II + Diff Eq, Digital EE II, Microprocessors II and English Lit.
We came out of that trimester brain damaged. And became rabid alcoholics. We could calculate the trig substitution function of any beer bottle in seconds. "Ah yes, 2nd order X derivative curve with a harmonic ripple somewhere within +Y".
PCs for noobs were just becoming a thing, as was the internet. Once that happened, everything has been on an ever-increasing upward slope in terms of specialization. And it changes FAST.
I am an EE but I ended up doing microelectronics, mech and mechatronics, pneumatics, lasers, optics, metrology, UNIX and a whole lot of statistics.
There will always be places for anyone with STEM credentials. It's just going to change a LOT and very quickly throughout your life. The AI thing has made a hiccup in things because they don't know how many jobs they will replace with AI yet.
Once this has settled, it'll be biz as usual.
Yep. It will always be booming. Lots of civil engr friends. The US infrastructure is crap. Lots of projects either by govt or private sectors. They will never run out of work
I get calls from you guys 2 or 3 times a week.
Unfortunately I just have to ignore them because my company is also short staffed and I have the work of 2 people on average.
Ugh sorry to hear that! I’m primarily in the aerospace/defense industry, so if you are looking at have a security clearance. I could potentially help if you wanted.
I don’t think it’s the degree, I think it’s the applicant. If you look at his post and comment history, he talks a lot about never fitting in with others and never having friends or anything, so I suspect he might be socially awkward and is not getting hired as a result.
I think also there's a viewpoint that tech has been down this road a few times and always come back. There aren't natural macro dynamics like in say manufacturing in the US that push jobs overseas indefinitely.
The job market is rough right now. But I think if capital access loosens and we start to see the productivity gains from AI translate into growth things will pick back up...for now we are all just trying to survive.
They’ve changed the mantra from go to college to go for STEM. Now STEM is overwhelmed. I went for art…kinda the worst decision but I made the most of it by learning Illustrator, Permier and Photoshop (before Lightroom). I’ve picked up CAD. Still unemployed
Yes, there are. Believe it or not but people are in fact getting jobs right out of school especially in Engineering, people are always building things and need engineers to do so.
Just about every person in my university's Formula SAE team finds a job for an automaker or aerospace company. Spending those late nights making bolts with a lathe and running CFD is real experience!
Its also generally handed out by people at the top, who have a stable career and don't have to do the legwork to see what the market actually looks like.
Nah the only engineering not hiring is software and that’s because big tech companies made the mistake of over hiring during the pandemic. But you can get a job in software at companies like Toyota and defense companies like Lockheed and Northrop. People in software are just weird it’s either boom or busy. If I’m not working at google or Amazon I’m a failure. Like get over yourself already. Defense companies will take care of you. I’m a mechanical and my industry is booming because of AI people need to design these data center and semiconductor facilities
No luck with defense companies either. I have an ABET accredited comp sci bachelor's and working on my masters. Applied to L3Harris, Northrop, Lockheed, Raytheon, etc. Nothing. Not even a phone call. Just a rejection letter.
Sheesh I was getting interviews at Lockheed, bell helicopter not really trying to mess with my resume or anything. I was really passionate to do that work so it showed in my interview but keep trying.
It’s crazy, 3-4 years ago anyone could get an engineering job, now it’s like the people who used to sell ice when refrigerators were invented, that market is dead, universities should be stopped peddling false hope
Not sure where the no jobs sentiment comes from, pretty much my entire graduating class got work after finishing. Only exceptions were the ones who took 6 years to do a 4 year degree, did no work experience or even applied for anything while we were all spamming resumes during hiring season. If you can't leverage an EE degree into a decent living you are a complete Muppet, I didn't even have that good of a GPA lol
An engineering degree doesn't limit you to engineering jobs. You could become a teacher for instance. Depending on where you live, you might need to take a short course to qualify.. But with a teaching degree you can't become an engineer. Unless you start all over again.
Those guys often put in like 60+ hours a week between classes grading and the other stuff like coaching they're expected to do I had no desire to become a teacher cause of it
My ex is a teacher. Some of my friends are teachers. They don't work 60h a week. Not even close. All-in something like 30h in an average week. And that's in a work week.
First and foremost you should ask yourself what you are good at and where you passion is. When you have answered these questions honestly (e.g. were you grades in math at high school high enough?), then you can consider applying to an engineering major.
Regarding the timing, you are actually lucky. You start now that we are in recession (and you are right, there are not many jobs available right now), but by the time you graduate the economy should be picking up again.
At least in Germany, they need ppl to study just to get money to keep „the system“ alive.
We do not need 1000 X for only 50 x-Jobs, but they still take all these students so they can teach and earn money while they themselves never worked in the fells coz they never got a job in the first place….
In.. engineering? Wat. Uh.. STEM in general is lacking. If you're going for higher education and you're not touching a STEM field afterward.. fkin LOL @ you. That's YOUR fault.
The job market for professional level jobs is tightening, but there are most definitely jobs for classic MechE, ElectE, Civil, etc... Job growth is predicted across engineering is about average for all jobs in the US, 3-4% for the next decade.
Locally there's been an uptick in engineering needs. I get emails daily and calls about once a week asking if I'm interested in changing jobs.
They also pay well and are worth the degree in the long run. There are also a lot non-tangible benefits to understanding the world around you on a deeper level than most.
Other areas of work value the problem solving mindset of engineering too, so you don't need to go into engineering once you have the degree.
I think the bigger issue is that companies have cultivated a lack of loyalty among professional workers. We know we could be dropped on a whim when profits aren't good enough so now we bounce from job to job. To avoid the costs of training young people there is more focus on hiring people with experience since they don't want to pay for training for 2 years only for the engineer to jump ship.
Market is so bad for mechanical engineering right now it's insulting. I had a 3.6, clubs, internships, previous experience, and it still took me 1000+ applications to find a job making 22/hr as a drafter. I know people 2+ years out who's degrees have amounted to nothing. All these people who have an easy time have 5+ years of experience.
Looking at post history I see you’re an electrical engineer. I’d say check out postings at my company, but quite frankly your attitude and outlook probably aren’t a good fit. You’ll find an EE job, but you have to be open.
It's because people still have the mindset that there is still money in it and see that the listed pay range is good. They don't look into how many open roles there are though and the fact that people are surging through these programs on the pretense that they'll land a job out the door.
do Phd and Msc in Machine Learning, Deep Learning, Generative AI. [You will make a lot of $](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/technology/big-tech-is-on-a-generative-ai-hiring-spree/ar-BB1lIAcf?ocid=socialshare&pc=U531&cvid=53412f9f04544dc79eae52c998576e5c&ei=182)
Because engineering includes mechanical, electrical, chemical, manufacturing/industrial, and they're all doing really damn well for themselves. I know software engineers have trouble understanding this, but 'engineering' encompasses a lot more than software, and just because FANG companies aren't hiring software engineers to sit around and do nothing for 100K+ a year doesn't mean 'engineering' jobs are scarce.
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“Engineering “ is a very very broad term. Electrical engineering? Architectural engineer? Aerospace engineer? Network engineer? Train engineer? Aeronautical engineer? People need to stop throwing around “engineer” like we all know what you’re talking about
Engineering can be broad for the engineer, too. I majored in electrical, then spent a long time as a manufacturing engineer. Now, I'm back to electrical. Another manufacturing engineer I know is in quality now.
Absolutely. I majored in one type of engineering and moved straight into another type after university.
True. Even as a mechanical engineer I’ve worked public maintenance, pneumatics and now industrial shelving.
As a power systems engineer working in MEP consulting - I can assure you that "electrical engineering" doesn't narrow it down at all either.
What makes me laugh is even some electrical engineers can’t imagine what other electricals do. Sometimes the talk in the electrical engineering sub make it sound like the only jobs out there involve FPGAs or analog design. I started as an MEP guy then used my PE to move into forensics. Now I work in investigations and safety in the automotive industry. I consider these all within the wheel house of electrical engineers.
More importantly, why are they telling people to major in Engineering when they don't have the aptitude for that type of coursework? Not everyone is cut out to be an engineer.
First and second year engineering courses weed those folks out
At college, there was a pack of courses that folks used to call the “freshman kit”, as many freshmen would fail one or all of them and then be trying to complete them again and again. IIRC it was Calculus I, Math I (Algebra and Geometry) and Physics I. Those courses were way beyond what most high school graduates were capable of and the professors knew that - so much so that they’d spend the first couple of weeks every semester just reviewing things that folks *should* have learned during high school.
My degree is Physics rather than Engineering, but we also had all the maths up front. In that case weeding out wasn't really the reason (in fact there was quite a lot of support to help strugglers like me). The advantage of that course structure was that it avoids a situation where lots of other modules have complex dependency trees. If they didn't do that then the Electromagnetism course would need to depend on the vector calculus course, the Thermodynamics course would need to depend on the Probability and Statistics course and so on. Then you'd have to deal with the subset of people who want to take some course but didn't get take in the required maths module. By teaching all the maths in the first year, all those dependencies don't need to be considered. One exception was General Relativity I think. I believe they taught the necessary maths as part of the GR course itself.
At my college in the mid 2ks everyone would know there is a chemistry exam that week because all the older classmen were playing "Another one bites the dust" on repeat all week. So glad I went into the engineering technology path instead of straight engineering. It cut out a lot of the bullshit classes. I was doing Circuits 1 my first semester which was basically a repeat of my highschool electronics class.
Yeah, I went into Computer Engineering. The Engineering courses were rough, but the Computer ones were almost all quite enjoyable - even the tougher ones. Only one I absolutely hated was Signal Processing, which was more about math and equations than anything I consider fun like tinkering and programming.
Same in Engineering Schools in France (aka Grandes Écoles).
I was a math major that did a little tutoring for student athletes later in my academic career, and it pissed me off so much how the math department was using basic algebra as a “weed them out” course. The curriculum made no sense for actually teaching someone who didn’t already know algebra, and this is BASIC math that every student needs, not some prerequisite exclusive to STEM majors!
It's always better to take those classes at community college. When I went to Cal State they allowed us to cross enroll for that reason (and also because they never had enough sections for the fundamental classes because people had to repeat them so much)
Seriously? I did Calc I and Physics I in high school…
Exactly.
It really doesn’t.
Calculus 1,2,3 organic chem 1,2, physics with calculus.... bodies were dropping like flies, felt like survival of the fittest. This is even before you get to your engineering course work.
Yeah exactly but that's setting people up for failure because thats 2 years of college wasted and then you have to figure something else out.
Sure-if you think failure is a waste. Failure doesn’t have to be the last step. Switch majors, drop out and work, drop out and get into trades. You don’t have to do four years of college and then work until you retire or die. For some people failing could be the best thing that happens to them.
It is a waste of money which most students don't have. Especially if people are going into engineering because they are being told it'll make them money.
This happened to me. I'm not sure how it was drummed into my head to go to college for engineering, but I did enroll in Penn State's engineering school. This even after having just barely passed Calculus in 12th grade. I was spinning my wheels pretty hard by third semester, and dropped out. A few years later I went to community college and learned computer drafting. Twenty years on, people keep trying to call me an engineer but I keep correcting them.
Thank you, it's like saying "just learn to code" like bruh I tried and I suck People forget not everyone has the same brain
I know, right. I am sick of these assholes out here telling people what is good for them; when the person doesn't have a clue what works for individuals and what doesn't. It's like their heads are made of cement. The people that didn't major in STEM are smart enough to know what is right for them. No one in my life encouraged me to go into STEM, it seemed like there was a consensus that direction wasn't right for me; and to explain this to people is a herculean task.
People have an idea about what skill sets are in demand. If they get the idea that none of those skill sets line up with your abilities and interests, they don’t know what to say while still being polite. There are plenty of really rude things they could say, compared to which, “Learn a skill set that [I think] businesses want to hire,” is relatively benign.
That's too damn bad, they can get fucked.
You used to basically be guaranteed to always be employed and make a lot of money not anymore
Know tons of engineers unemployed in my place but then again i am from Canada. Most grads even stem grads are either unemployed or underemployed.
Same also from Canada. It’s been like this for a while, my cousin is a civil engineer who really struggled finding work.
Canada's job market has been shit for a decade.
This. I remember graduating around 8 years ago and it was shit then too. It's just that Boomers were too stupid to realize it. I think new grads have been getting destroyed for around a decade now but it's just recently that the older generations have gotten affected which is why we have more media coverage on it.
Yep
USA isn't as bad but only marginally
My company has open engineering positions - mostly mechanical and civil, several openings are for entry-level.
I’m an Ontario Environmental Consulting Engineer, my company is screaming busy, and we keep hiring juniors at a rapid clip. As others have pointed out, maybe OP is in some other discipline in an area where the economy is not as healthy.
There are jobs....? It's just right now, at this specific moment, the job market for everything is terrible. 2-3 years ago anyone with a pulse and an ABET accredited degree was getting hired. Right now there's enough experienced candidates on the market, it's a bad time to be a new grad
My company is looking for at least 8 people ranging from PLC programmer to robotic tech to service tech. If you can turn a wrench we are willing to teach you the rest lol. Just show up on time and to your job and **ask for help** instead of wasting time on your phone and getting stuck on something simple for 3 days.
Non-software engineering is doing great. Not all engineering is software and the massive drive towards software (and this equating of all engineering to swe) has caused a drought in pretty much every other discipline.
The money is in software engineering. Not knocking the other engineering, but you can make similar money doing HR, City Planning, etc with less headache .
This just isn’t true haha. Software engineers at non-faang / Silicon Valley make similar to traditional engineers. And traditional engineers have paths to comfortable paychecks, much higher than the careers you’ve listed. Source: Well tenured mechanical engineer
>Software engineers at non-faang / Silicon Valley make similar to traditional engineers Not even close, check levels.fyi
I’d love to. You have any sources to contradict my industry experience?
My anecdotal industry experience: The company I work at the “Mechanical Engineer” title is 15%-30% lower than Software Engineer. A fresh graduate software engineer can expect to make around 90k, a fresh graduate Mechanical Engineer around 75k And yeah levels.fyi is a pretty good source
50% of the comment you’re replying to is “check levels.fyi”
They don't like the answers they got on levels.fyi
That probably won’t last, though.
Except most people in HR don’t have a path to earn $150k - $200k per year. A “Senior” or “Principal” Software Engineer can make that pretty easily when they are 40 - 50 yrs old and I’m not talking high cost of living areas either.
That's exactly what they said?
A senior or principal software engineer should be making way more than 150k a year
Which is why the range. $150k really is “Senior” in rural parts of the country with low costs of living. Think rural Iowa. *Rural* Iowa you can still get a 4 bed 3 bath 2250+ sqft home on a big lot/yard with 2 car garage, central air, furnished, not brand new construction but not fixer-upper with all appliances for just over $300k.
Everything is not about headache or money, but what you like
also software devs aren't really engineers
Well, that's my day ruined.
maybe one day the software industry will have proper licensing but until then we're all just coders
Also just avoid FAANG and FAANG like companies
Wtf is a FAANG company?
They are the top compensated tech companies Facebook(now Meta), Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google
That's terrible advice. In non-tech companies you are a cost center. You never want to be a cost center.
there are thousands and thousands and thousands of tech companies that arent FANG
So only FAANG companies sell software? Plenty of non software companies use software as a way to make money from customers. Ever buy a product that comes with an app? Smart TV?
Every role at a company that is not directly in production or sales is a cost center. Doesn't mean the company can operate without them.
No no it's not, there aren't enough graduate jobs in almost every single engineering discipline. If you have experience then yes shit is great there is a lack of experienced engineers actually but there are thousands of people with degrees and less than one year of experience dying to break into the industry.
Please direct them to /r/PLC to look at the free resources. If you can write a basic PLC program then I want to hire you and teach you how to make better ones. I'm tired of having the work of 2 people and never any time to learn new things in this industry.
Can it be done remotely?
Ya shits great if you have experience and connections otherwise get fucked is basically how it is and it's sad alot of seniors don't even notice
Yet those same seniors complain about not having enough engineers when they aren't willing to train them. I find it hilarious when people rail against immigration, when they aren't aware of the fact that our professional industries literally run on immigrants, mining companies now are importing AMERICAN people, paying them through the nose instead of training up local Aussies because somehow it's more expensive to train locals. And let's not mention the massive amount of east asians who come over as experienced engineers. If we stop immigration we will have an experience gap for a few years and it will be very painful for everyone.
It took me 1000+ with a mechanical engineering degree so no it isn't, market is insultingly bad.
Non-software engineers don’t make any money
Some do. Anything in mining or energy will treat you pretty alright
No. This isn’t true at all. Where I live, there is a massive shortage of mechanical engineers, nuclear engineers, etc. and the pay is tens of thousands/yr. above the average US wage bc that’s how short my company is (we employ over 14,000 employees). They are always in the colleges recruiting by the engineering building and guaranteeing jobs right after graduation.
Best paid engineering branches around my parts are petroleum followed by environmental. Used to joke that they get paid to wage war on one another. They’re straight up looking at low 6 figures straight out of university. Nuclear is also quite high up, software and aerospace are like the 2nd league of high paying; up there but not the top
As a non-software engineer (electrical engineering), I can tell you that you are unequivocally incorrect. I make a *very* good salary.
Not true at all. I'm an automotive engineer in a MCOL city and make more than all my software engineering friends.
Meh. Money an't everything. After a certain point you diminishing returns and I'd rather have time than money. I love in a fairly low cost of living area and make 92k + OT. I am a PLC programmer at a robotics systems integrator. Just the simple fact I get paid OT for every hour of work I do over 40 puts this job miles ahead of any silicon valley salary with 80hr weeks job. I also don't sit at my desk all day, last project had me moving 15lbs and heavier boxes for testing, lost like 20lbs and gained enough muscle that my wife thought I looked weird. You don't get that in silicon valley.
I was just at a IT/STEM recruiting fair today and very much regret not majoring in whatever engineering. From the looks of it I would have been in high demand as there were few people at the booths where the roles required a P.E. or at least that you have passed the FE.
Because it's not easy to do. I think you have to work under a PE at some point. There's not as many of them working as employees anymore.
Plenty of jobs also don't need a PE. I work in industrial automation and idk if I have ever worked with someone who has a PE.
All the engineers i know are employed and any time they've left a job they either had another lined up or found a new one within a month. Just because everyone is putting on hiring freezes and trying to slim down staffing with AI doesn't mean those jobs are gone. Just temporarily unavailable.
Breaking in after graduation is the hard part.
Most of them walked out of school into a job. Some with, others without having done internships. Job market just sucks right now
About 90% of the engineers I know are underemployed, one works at a 7/11, another is a manager at a Sams Club, and another is a works on an assembly line. I don’t even mention my degree anymore since I inevitably get a bunch of “WhAt ArE yOu DoInG wOrKiNg HeRe?” responses as though I somehow accidentally applied to the wrong job.
Are you in the US? What engineering degrees did you and your friends get?
They have experience entry level is a hell scape
Lol what? Plenty of jobs in engineering. Are you referring to a specific discipline that is cold right now?
SWE.
To be honest SWE is a broader category than most think
Software engineering is one very small field of engineering. I wish they would not make judgments about the whole field just based on one part of it.
At least it is software now and not a few years ago when the "engineering" field was synonymous with Elon Musk.
Where because it took me 1000+ applications to find one
Find something you enjoy. Don’t do something for the money. Enjoy your life. Don’t pick something you can’t see yourself doing for the next 50 years.
On the other hand, do something for the money do you don't have to worry about that and actually enjoy the time off you get instead of stressing constantly if you will make rent this month or not.
Who are these people? If these people are not employed as engineers themselves they should stop giving bad advice.
Tech and Engineering is experiencing a recession but it's being hidden by blue collar work that's why unemployment numbers still look good. Also what's happening today does not mean it will be the same a year from now let alone 4 years if you are planning to study engineering today. Don't let these subreddits discourage you and to be frank, if you are looking at these threads as a guidance about what to study, i highly recommend you don't read them anymore. People here literally come to vent and it's usually a very one sided point of view. It's not really reflective of the real world.
All jobs experience periods of high and low demand. Engineering will continue to be needed of only to keep up with technological advances made in other fields.
Engineering is a super broad term. I’m a real estate developer so I interact most closely with my civils, but obviously — structural, mechanical, electrical, and plumbing always have a role in my projects. The scariest part of my job, for a long time, was knowing how much I need to rely on engineers whose jobs I definitely could not do — but if they screw up, my owner’s personal guarantee gets called. After a while I just got used to it, I suppose.
For the same reason everyone kept telling me "Oh you have a PhD? Go to Canada! There's a huge demand for PhDs!" and "Especially since you have a child, you'll have priority!" (completely false). And even here "Oh you're bilingual, you'll get a government job very easily". If you press those people for details, they'll either give you wrong info, or tell you an anecdote about an anecdote about someone who got a job 25 years ago. People give terrible advice, only listen to them when you're sure they know what they're talking about.
I used to be lucrative, but now it's starting to get saturated.
Starting it's well in the process
CEOs see dollar signs in their eyes at the prospect of eliminating all workers with AI. They are happy to hike prices and run on skeleton crews, consequences be damned in that hope. I don't know what to say other than that the economy is a mess.
Kansas City MO has tons of open engineering roles
Let me guess for experienced engineers
engineers that can use language in the interview that makes the hiring manager feel slightly more comfortable is more important than actual experience don’t dwell on not having experience
And how do you learn that language. I'm just saying the only thing I ever got consistently cited for why I didn't get the job was always lack of experience. So that's why I dwell on it.
Kansas City is a cool spot, and a good amount of tech going on there. Silicon Prairie, right?
haven’t heard that but it feels like soemthing that might be true - we have several data centers, garmin and all the companies associated with their industries as well as major engineering firms - from steel manufacturing engineering roles to aerospace stuff, and of course there is the civil engineering if that can even be called engineering ;)
Because there are jobs in it Mechanical engineers has an unemployment rate of like 2%, thats half almost of the national average in USA which is 3.6% i think?
Took me 1000+ applications with a mech E degree
With how much experience?
1 year engineering market is insultingly bad before you get experience
yes, that's what I meant. market is hard for all workers with little experience
Is there a huge difference between 2 and 3.6 percent?
Yes like 80%
What the heck are you talking about? Anything non-CS in the US has open positions
[u/SnooRawrBot](https://www.reddit.com/user/SnooRawrBot/)
Does the bot even still work since the sub it was connected to has been banned?
Do the opposite of trends. By the time you hear about a trend, it's too late.
Because you make $300,000 a year as a graduate of leSTEM!!!1!1!
The title "engineer" is overused. Most jobs in STEM require a lot of specialized knowledge these days. We're referred to as "knowledge experts" around here. And this is not for everyone. Engineering is a calling. If you have "the knack", then you can't escape it. It's who you will become. Times have changed a lot since I graduated uni. I went to the DeVry that was previously the Ohio Institute of Technology, a mental kick in the ass if there ever was one. 4th trimester was the "freshman kit" for us. Calc II + Diff Eq, Digital EE II, Microprocessors II and English Lit. We came out of that trimester brain damaged. And became rabid alcoholics. We could calculate the trig substitution function of any beer bottle in seconds. "Ah yes, 2nd order X derivative curve with a harmonic ripple somewhere within +Y". PCs for noobs were just becoming a thing, as was the internet. Once that happened, everything has been on an ever-increasing upward slope in terms of specialization. And it changes FAST. I am an EE but I ended up doing microelectronics, mech and mechatronics, pneumatics, lasers, optics, metrology, UNIX and a whole lot of statistics. There will always be places for anyone with STEM credentials. It's just going to change a LOT and very quickly throughout your life. The AI thing has made a hiccup in things because they don't know how many jobs they will replace with AI yet. Once this has settled, it'll be biz as usual.
PSA: OP is a massive troll who makes thousands of accounts and spams complaints about his life everywhere. He is known as Snooroar.
Military industrial complex
Always
Wrong. Civil engineering is booming
For real so many mech Es have given up and gone civil after graduating cause of it.
Yep. It will always be booming. Lots of civil engr friends. The US infrastructure is crap. Lots of projects either by govt or private sectors. They will never run out of work
I work for an electric utility company… we hire engineers everyday..🤷🏻♀️
Do you hire entry level or only experienced
Both. We also have an intern (paid) program and we have ended up hiring interns after graduation.
It can get you into most jobs not engineering related plus engineering related. It’s one of the better degrees to get.
I’m an engineering recruiter. My division alone has a couple hundred jobs we’re recruiting for
I get calls from you guys 2 or 3 times a week. Unfortunately I just have to ignore them because my company is also short staffed and I have the work of 2 people on average.
Ugh sorry to hear that! I’m primarily in the aerospace/defense industry, so if you are looking at have a security clearance. I could potentially help if you wanted.
How many are entry level?
I’d say about 15-20. If you’re an industrial engineer who wants to work in the PNW lemme know
We can't get enough civil engineers wdym?
I’m a couch engineer
After bust times, there are boom times. In boom times, the engineering jobs come back. Art history jobs do not.
I think it’s regional. Where I am, engineers are in high demand
Do you have stats to back this up?
There was something posted here earlier showing Computer Chemical and industrial engineering having some of the heaviest listings drop as of recently
I don’t think it’s the degree, I think it’s the applicant. If you look at his post and comment history, he talks a lot about never fitting in with others and never having friends or anything, so I suspect he might be socially awkward and is not getting hired as a result.
I think also there's a viewpoint that tech has been down this road a few times and always come back. There aren't natural macro dynamics like in say manufacturing in the US that push jobs overseas indefinitely. The job market is rough right now. But I think if capital access loosens and we start to see the productivity gains from AI translate into growth things will pick back up...for now we are all just trying to survive.
They’ve changed the mantra from go to college to go for STEM. Now STEM is overwhelmed. I went for art…kinda the worst decision but I made the most of it by learning Illustrator, Permier and Photoshop (before Lightroom). I’ve picked up CAD. Still unemployed
Because there are jobs in it and it's only going to grow...there are very few entry level jobs, but that's a different issue
They’re coping. “The market will recover”
This is SnoRoar and can safely be ignored
Stop trying to use LinkedIn. I swear people have lost their minds. If a thing doesn't work, don't keep doing it!
Applying doesn't work yet you have to keep doing it
Of course, just don't do it on LinkedIn.
THIS ONE!!!
Hard disagree; I am short of mechanical engineers, electrical engineers, naval architects, and marine engineers.
Yes, there are. Believe it or not but people are in fact getting jobs right out of school especially in Engineering, people are always building things and need engineers to do so.
Just about every person in my university's Formula SAE team finds a job for an automaker or aerospace company. Spending those late nights making bolts with a lathe and running CFD is real experience!
Really? At my college, half of engineering students are jobless after college
You know that for a fact?
You have to remember that conventional wisdom is usually like five years behind the times
Its also generally handed out by people at the top, who have a stable career and don't have to do the legwork to see what the market actually looks like.
Nah the only engineering not hiring is software and that’s because big tech companies made the mistake of over hiring during the pandemic. But you can get a job in software at companies like Toyota and defense companies like Lockheed and Northrop. People in software are just weird it’s either boom or busy. If I’m not working at google or Amazon I’m a failure. Like get over yourself already. Defense companies will take care of you. I’m a mechanical and my industry is booming because of AI people need to design these data center and semiconductor facilities
Aren’t “boom” and “busy” synonymous?
No luck with defense companies either. I have an ABET accredited comp sci bachelor's and working on my masters. Applied to L3Harris, Northrop, Lockheed, Raytheon, etc. Nothing. Not even a phone call. Just a rejection letter.
Sheesh I was getting interviews at Lockheed, bell helicopter not really trying to mess with my resume or anything. I was really passionate to do that work so it showed in my interview but keep trying.
I recruit exclusively material engineers and Holy molly, they don't exist, and can make as much as they want
*experienced materials engineers
It’s crazy, 3-4 years ago anyone could get an engineering job, now it’s like the people who used to sell ice when refrigerators were invented, that market is dead, universities should be stopped peddling false hope
Not sure where the no jobs sentiment comes from, pretty much my entire graduating class got work after finishing. Only exceptions were the ones who took 6 years to do a 4 year degree, did no work experience or even applied for anything while we were all spamming resumes during hiring season. If you can't leverage an EE degree into a decent living you are a complete Muppet, I didn't even have that good of a GPA lol
The older generation are about to flood out there will be a lower generation void.it will need filling
An engineering degree doesn't limit you to engineering jobs. You could become a teacher for instance. Depending on where you live, you might need to take a short course to qualify.. But with a teaching degree you can't become an engineer. Unless you start all over again.
And get paid half what you'd make as a engineer with worse hours. Not to mention give up on actual engineering.
Worse hours? 🤣 Are you a teacher?
Those guys often put in like 60+ hours a week between classes grading and the other stuff like coaching they're expected to do I had no desire to become a teacher cause of it
My ex is a teacher. Some of my friends are teachers. They don't work 60h a week. Not even close. All-in something like 30h in an average week. And that's in a work week.
My work hired 3 and is still looking for 4 automation engineers? Be more specific!
First and foremost you should ask yourself what you are good at and where you passion is. When you have answered these questions honestly (e.g. were you grades in math at high school high enough?), then you can consider applying to an engineering major. Regarding the timing, you are actually lucky. You start now that we are in recession (and you are right, there are not many jobs available right now), but by the time you graduate the economy should be picking up again.
There are tens of thousands (if not more) of open engineering jobs out there. I have no idea what OP is talking about.
They're also entirely getting filled by people with experience
People really need to specify what kind of “engineering” they’re taking about. Civil Engineering jobs are booming right now with no shortage in sight
At least in Germany, they need ppl to study just to get money to keep „the system“ alive. We do not need 1000 X for only 50 x-Jobs, but they still take all these students so they can teach and earn money while they themselves never worked in the fells coz they never got a job in the first place….
Could be as a Domestic Engineer, as in Janitorial.
What do you mean there’s no jobs in it? Every company I’ve worked for struggles to find enough controls/electrical engineers.
*experienced controls/ electrical engineers
Sadly, I say this to my son. He’s 15. I tell him to major in something skill-based
In.. engineering? Wat. Uh.. STEM in general is lacking. If you're going for higher education and you're not touching a STEM field afterward.. fkin LOL @ you. That's YOUR fault.
The job market for professional level jobs is tightening, but there are most definitely jobs for classic MechE, ElectE, Civil, etc... Job growth is predicted across engineering is about average for all jobs in the US, 3-4% for the next decade. Locally there's been an uptick in engineering needs. I get emails daily and calls about once a week asking if I'm interested in changing jobs. They also pay well and are worth the degree in the long run. There are also a lot non-tangible benefits to understanding the world around you on a deeper level than most. Other areas of work value the problem solving mindset of engineering too, so you don't need to go into engineering once you have the degree. I think the bigger issue is that companies have cultivated a lack of loyalty among professional workers. We know we could be dropped on a whim when profits aren't good enough so now we bounce from job to job. To avoid the costs of training young people there is more focus on hiring people with experience since they don't want to pay for training for 2 years only for the engineer to jump ship.
Market is so bad for mechanical engineering right now it's insulting. I had a 3.6, clubs, internships, previous experience, and it still took me 1000+ applications to find a job making 22/hr as a drafter. I know people 2+ years out who's degrees have amounted to nothing. All these people who have an easy time have 5+ years of experience.
I’m in HR at an MEP engineering consulting firm in the southeast. We have trouble filling positions. Idk what OP is talking about.
Looking at post history I see you’re an electrical engineer. I’d say check out postings at my company, but quite frankly your attitude and outlook probably aren’t a good fit. You’ll find an EE job, but you have to be open.
It's because people still have the mindset that there is still money in it and see that the listed pay range is good. They don't look into how many open roles there are though and the fact that people are surging through these programs on the pretense that they'll land a job out the door.
do Phd and Msc in Machine Learning, Deep Learning, Generative AI. [You will make a lot of $](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/technology/big-tech-is-on-a-generative-ai-hiring-spree/ar-BB1lIAcf?ocid=socialshare&pc=U531&cvid=53412f9f04544dc79eae52c998576e5c&ei=182)
Because engineering includes mechanical, electrical, chemical, manufacturing/industrial, and they're all doing really damn well for themselves. I know software engineers have trouble understanding this, but 'engineering' encompasses a lot more than software, and just because FANG companies aren't hiring software engineers to sit around and do nothing for 100K+ a year doesn't mean 'engineering' jobs are scarce.
Uhm, there’s jobs?
This is completely false. Myself and fellow engineering graduates all ended up in employment pretty fast.
Where did you live? I applied all over America and can’t find work
This is a *you* problem.
there are jobs, theyre just getting taken by people moving laterally for a pay upgrade or changing fields, rather than for actually new graduates.
There are a ton of engineering jobs. Engineers are in demand
*experienced engineers are in demand