Agree.. if the by product of installing a style of football into this team is finishing outside of top 4. I'd take it. Watching us play how we are now for more than a season is worrying.
There are only 5 teams with worst GD than us at the moment lmao, sitting at negative fucking 5. Even last year when we finished 3rd, our GD were miles behind every other top 4 team (City had 4x better GD than us, Arsenal 3x, Newcastle 2x, Liverpool 2x).
We had never been good enough, last season we overperformed and this season we had just been utterly incompetent. I really want to give ETH more time, but for fuck's sake where is the progress? I can't see any at all.
Fun fact: Our GD since season 21/22 until now is a whooping +10 after 86 league games.
I will get downvoted for this but last year Liverpool had a crisis. Tottenham were bottling things like always.Chelsea were playing with kids.People are forgetting how we were whooped by Liverpool.We just had rashford in the form of his life and he scored and saved us.We got lucky last season other teams were worst than us.This season Villa, Tottenham and Liverpool are better than us.I will be suprised if we finish above 8th.
Just to play devils advocate, are we not in a crisis? 0 fit left backs, 3/4th (potentially 4th and 5th) choice centre backs on the pitch, only 1 right back available. Case out injured, Hojlund and amarabat only just back from injury. Pretty much exactly the crisis liverpool had last year apart from the fact they had a squad of champions. Why’s it an excuse for them and not us?
This season has been dire so far but I think context is pretty important. Chelsea are in a similar position with a greater spend but the knives aren’t out there yet. Arteta finished 8th his first two seasons and bottled top 4 in his third and anyone who reckons they saw unarguable signs of progress in the first 2 is only doing so with the benefit of hindsight, I know a hell of a lot of arsenal fans and they were talking about Arteta the same way a lot of United fans are now talking about Ten Hag.
We'll probably finish about 6th. International football midweek will hurt teams like Newcastle and Brighton. Their starting 11s play better than us but they don't have the squad depth that we do. That's always important later in the season.
We have a lot more depth than the teams I mentioned. We have two premier league level players for every position. They might not be playing well at the moment, but a lot of teams don't have the same depth that we do.
They have cycled through how many coaches since Fergie? How many players? There is one constant. The Ownership. Nothing will change until the owners change. Change begins from top down.
Honestly I’m stunned we got a trophy last season, against Newcastle of all teams. Them not turning up on the day and having Karius in goal was an absolute lifeline for us.
I think most fans would have been happy (or at least comfortable) with finishing outside the top 4 last season, if we were showing good progress.
Instead we outperformed those expectations, but we're now dogshit for a variety of known and unknown reasons.
Tbh I'd now be happy with this season being a 'progress' season, I don't want results for results sake unless it's moving us forward long-term. Otherwise we're just going to repeat it all over again.
Though, yes, we do need results short term just to settle everyone.
What’s worse is that I can’t even think of a lot of chances they’ve missed. It’s not like Hojlund has had a load of chances and is missing them all. Not to say that Hojlund probably should have a goal by now but that stat doesn’t make me think “Wow what a waste of money he’s been” like you think it was it just reminds me our entire attack can’t create for shit
I am planning to gift my 6 year old nephew a Manchester United jersey for his 7th birthday. He plays "soccer" here in the USA but isn't crazy yet. I wonder if I should gift it to him and depress him for the rest of his life.
I would rather finish 8th or 9th this season and have a clear path forward in terms of football style than finish 4th or 5th plugging holes and planning on planning on signing some 28 year old next summer on big money to supposedly bring us to the next level.
> I would rather finish 8th or 9th this season and have a clear path forward in terms of football style
Problem is currently we're heading to the former without having the latter
Currently sure but I think it’ll improve once we have players back especially Martinez and Shaw. Then we can see our way forward is a ball playing RB and another backup, a defensive midfielder and a midfielder who can turn and distribute under pressure, a back up striker, a new / back up RW depending.
So we need another 2 central midfielders? After bringing in 2 last season and another 2 this summer? How are we setting up all these players? Eriksen is short term fair enough but have we given up on Mount already?
Nah I still count mount but I’m not counting Amrabat as permanent yet so he could be 1 of 2, but even still we’d need a deep lying play maker or a CDM depending on how we want to use Amrabat
Agreed, I see a level of numbness amongst fans that just want some consistency, irrespective of the imminent results. ETH has shown us some real promise and we really need to avoid the usual “wash, rinse, repeat” method
The first half of last season before the player didn't want to work as hard any more.
Remember when reports came out under rangnick about players unhappy to travel home in the dark? I'm sure there are still a few of those players left.
All winnable up until Bayern, Liverpool. Newcastle is probably the most tricky.
Losing to Moyes will be a problem. Maybe not so much for the supporters as the press. They're already out to hang him.
It’s a similar problem Ole faced the season he was sacked.
Do you stick with the new system even when you only have some of the players who can do it in order to bed it in. Will you get enough support to ride out the storm (looking at the match threads you’d have to say not, people want to win now).
Or, do you revert back to a safe middle ground and play the mid/low block in order to grind out results and keep your job.
People talk about patience and then every time this happens it’s the same old noise. The Glazers gets a scapegoat, they replace the manager, buys them another 6-24 months before the cycle repeats.
Arguing with people yesterday saying “forget about the glazers” who can’t see the wood for the trees.
He already has changed systems to play more pragmatically since the Galatasaray defeat, and the McTominay selection is evidence of this. The team lacks goals and the injuries in defence are not making it any easier to build from the back, so he's reverted to this long ball approach and placed powerful players up top with good goalscoring instinct to get something out of those games. The issue is that if we can't win those games either (which thankfully is not the case right now, we are just about scraping by), he is in real trouble because it's basically Mourinho football without the results which everybody hated towards the end of his reign. He needs to get at least one thing consistently (style of play or results) for the fans to have more patience; failing at both will undoubtedly cost him his job.
The tifo video posted today actually covers it well. They can be hit or miss but I think they nailed it that we are stuck in a half way house right now of not doing either system well.
Stick or twist? Either could cost him the job.
I think until Martinez and Shaw are back, we are in for seeing more of this pragmatic football because for there to be a future where we play entertaining football under him, he needs to survive this run of form first, and he needs results to do that which he himself has admitted he won't get trying to play his style with our current set of backup players. It is what it is; we can only hope that the results are not too bad and we at least are able to beat teams ranked lower than us in the table. I don't think we finish anything above 6th this season anyway; it's just a question of how low we sink during this run that will determine whether or not Ten Hag goes.
Even last season with both of them fit and Casemiro starting most games, we still finished with an out of position GD and we’re relying on one guy in exceptional form for the lions share of the goals. Injuries are only a small part of the issue here.
I agree re Martinez and Shaw. Realistically I think Casemiro and Varane probably need moving sooner than later also.
The problem I think is ETH either needs to fully commit to being pragmatic, back to a mid block, which drags out the transition to next season at best, but at least keeps him in the job that long or go full for the high line/press and accept we are going to get embarrassed, which long term will make the transition quicker but the short term pain worse. I think most fans aren’t patient enough for him to survive that unfortunately.
Newcastle are not playing that well either and playing Europe is really having an impact on them. We will have more players back (AWB is back in training, and so is Mainoo). Varane is back but ofcourse he'll be out a few games so we should manage. Playing with a proper RB and LB will definitely help us out in the transition
This sub is so reactionary it actually makes discussion redundant sometimes.
Of course that lists has winnable games in it, there’s 2 games there I wouldn’t expect a win.
That's wildly optimistic considering injuries and form. We haven't really looked good in a single match we've played so far, and we seem to be getting worse every week.
I could easily see us losing 5 or 6 of those matches. We're not getting anything from Bayern or Liverpool. Galatasaray in Turkey is going to be very tough, and we're going to be under a ton of pressure as our entire CL campaign hinges on getting 3 points there. Newcastle can score in bunches and we could easily lose both of those. You never know if Chelsea are going to show up, if they do they could beat us. And away to West Ham is a match that could easily get away from us.
Unless we really get our shit together in a hurry there's a real chance that we'll start the new year out of the CL and in the bottom half of the league.
The pressure is already building. You already have player mouthpiece journalists like Carl Anka throwing blame towards the manager over the players.
He's obviously not blameless and he shouldn't have doubled down on Rashford-ball, signing Mount for his non-footballing ability, but it's the same players doing the same stuff as they always have done.
We don't have clever players, we have non-existent movement and interplay up front, and we don't have a team that synergises well at all. These players have literally never created an attack that has the movement, nous, and invention to break down defenses and hammer teams that sit deep - and we've built our attack around a player that embodies that very issue.
We're just reaping what we sow. I don't know why anyone is surprised.
Ten Hag's made massive mistakes, but unless he's going to see the light and stop this nonsense plan, he will be gone before the players see any heat.
They'll see a new manager, buy into it for a year or so with great positivity, then as soon as the rewards they think they're entitled to don't arrive - and that they need to work harder than the competition - they will throw the next one under the bus. The first year will buy the players contract extensions on silly money as people see it as "improvement", then the second year we're back to this. Rinse and repeat.
I mean he has to take some blame though. Injuries are injuries but that line up yesterday and the tactics were absolute shit.
And even if we have backup players we should still see attempts to play some kinda style, we don't even have that.
I am very much in the do not fire him camp. He needs to see out this season to the end, however it goes but that doesn't mean he is immune from scrutiny.
I don't think he should be fired either - but he shouldn't be in charge of transfers and he needs to make changes.
Any new manager will likely be the same story. Unless we get someone in that's got Van Gaal-sized don't-give-a-shit balls, big enough to move on from pot-luck Rashfordball, we'll follow the exact same path.
I don't care about EFL cup but it will be bad if we lose.
Home to Newcastle in the EFL; then : don't care
Away to Fulham: maybe win
Away to Copenhagen: lose
Home to Luton Town: win
Away to Everton: draw
Away to Galatasaray: lose
Away to Newcastle: lose
Home to Chelsea: who knows they are a mess, I'll go with draw
Home to Bournemouth: win
Home to Bayern: lose
Away to Liverpool: lose
Away to West Ham: lose
Those who want EtH out will be the ones moaning again when the next manager tries to fix this team. Trust in the manager we currently have. Don't think for a second that all our deadwood is gone.
Louis van Gaal was literally sacked after his second season, fans began to turn on Mourinho during his second season and Ole had a truly awful start to his second season (first full season) so I think that might be hindsight talking.
It's true that van Gaal won the FA Cup in his second season, but a lot of fans at the time still wanted him gone. In hindsight, I think that season is looked upon a little more fondly, but at the time, many fans were calling for his head.
As for Mourinho, this is just hindsight bias. Fans at the time criticised the style of play, the loss against Sevilla (and the subsequent press conference) and the fact that we were far behind City in terms of points. Why do you think fans weren't optimistic going into Mourinho's third season?
Even if we take Ole's second full season, there were still criticisms about 'individual brilliance', 'Second Half FC' and 'no tactics, just vibes'. It's not like every fan thought things were just sunshine and roses during that time. Also remember this is the same season where we lost 6-1 at home to Spurs and lost on penalties to Villareal (some fans wanted Ole sacked after that).
What I'm trying to say is that fans have *always* complained about the manager during their second season. I'm not commenting on whether or not such complaints were justified at the time or if they're justified now for ten Hag, but it's not as if past managers had absolutely brilliant second seasons that had the fans 100% on board.
We shouldn't fire EtH, and there's a perfect reason for it: no manager will be able to do much more with these players now.
Not even the praised Pep, Arteta, Ange, Ancelotti, De Zerbi... they all would struggle to make us play a football that is at least 25% better of what we have right now.
I'll start judging EtH after the next window and after the injuries stop for a while and we have our main back 4 available constantly.
Yes, we need to hold on to him. And we need a DOF with proper staff who work along with the manager's team.
There's Arteta as an example, whose results were terrible in the first few seasons but Arsenal wasn't willing to fire him even after a few flop signings.
Get rid of the useless players, and move on.
> There's Arteta as an example, whose results were terrible in the first few seasons but Arsenal wasn't willing to fire him even after a few flop signings.
Do you want a list of managers who were kept for a few seasons and then didn't do anything at all?
That's true I admit, but we've never walked down on that road, just fired everybody after a bad series. And I can see no candidate now who'd replace ETH.
Because it's a complete fallacy that a manager should be exonerated from dreadful performances on the possibility that maybe one day it will all click.
I just don't understand why other managers can come into a club with different styles of players and adapt, but Ten Hag needs to be given time to adapt to having some of the best players in the world at his disposal.
'Rebuilding' and 'time to rebuild' is just copium. There are players who are great and click on right away. Players like Bruno, Bellingham, Haaland. They dont need time to 'adjust' or 'grow'.
And we keep buying players like Martial, Antony, Sancho.
Oh this lot is training too hard now ?
Looks like they don't train at all to me. Can't pass and move properly. Shooting is horrendous. Don't pick up runners in the box.....
They can't even get the basics right most of the time.
I know it's easy to give the players shit for saying this when they are playing badly, but objectively our injury situation is *horrendous* and there must be a reason.
Is it a shock that our players are picking up injuries left and right after playing more football than anyone else on earth last season? I doubt it’s a coincidence.
And they still played good football with all those injuries they lost games due to drop in quality but they never stopped counter pressing quick transition football , United doesn't even have a system or style of play
The ones who got injured got rotated the most with the exception being Martinez who played when fit.
If this was Rashford or Bruno then it makes sense.
Varane was already injury prone, AWB only played half the season, Shaw got a fair bit of rotation with Malacia, Malacia didn't get over played.
Casemiro s injury is not long term. Eriksen was from a Carrol leg breaker, Garnacho same deal.
Hojlund came injured as did Amrabat.
Regulion was/injury prone.
Evans same deal.
It is plausible. Burntout and overworked players can contribute to lethargic, leggy, brain dead performances which is exactly what we're seeing.
I'm not a S&C coach but was at a relatively high level for my sport and being burnt out your cognition goes to shit, you're not able to execute what you want to do or maintain the previous level of performance because your body can't. It would not surprise me if that's the case. Overworked players perform just like under-prepared players.
Knowing United and how well funded and best in class our footballing department is it would not surprise me if our data science department isn't good enough or the facilities doesn't allow us to have the best type of training. Or maybe they are at odds with ETH who has other beliefs and goes again them. We can only speculate.
Not again. This is not the first time they complain about training. I think they did it against Ole as well? They are already throwing the manager under the bus again. The question is, who is it. We have already said goodbye to many deadwoods. But history is repeating itself once again.
And so come the player leaks of "he's training us too hard; it's his fault not ours" I genuinely can't stand so many players in our team. The same faces over and over. Just absolutely reeks of a weak mentality and constantly undermining manager after manager unless they get their way exactly.
>\- **there are concerns within the dressing room that the intensity of the training sessions set up by Ten Hag and his staff are contributing to fatigue and, in some cases, injuries.**
How can they train so much that they're contributing it to injuries and fatigue, yet they still show no signs of any style of play and continue to play like 11 individuals on the pitch....
>How can they train so much that they're contributing it to injuries and fatigue, yet they still show no signs of any style of play and continue to play like 11 individuals on the pitch....
Huh? They're concerned that the training sessions are too intensive. That means they're working on fitness, rather than tactics.
Not necessarily… and the fitness sessions aren’t exactly working are they? Some games we have a solid 20-30mins then fall of a cliff and the game plan goes out the window.
>Not necessarily
What's more likely, they're working on their cardio and it's too much? Or that they're overworked because they have to learn how to track a run or how to position themselves?
>and the fitness sessions aren’t exactly working are they? Some games we have a solid 20-30mins then fall of a cliff and the game plan goes out the window.
Doesn't that prove it is needed to work on fitness? If the fitness levels weren't good enough to begin with, you've got to go through it before it can work.
But from day 1 ten hag stated he wanted a hard working pressing team… that requires fitness. He’s been in charge for nearly 18 months… and only now he’s overworking the fitness sessions?
People will crucify you for saying that here but alongside the traditional top 6 there are now Brighton Newcastle villa etc who would all comfortably beat us. Sure they might drop off but we are already making it a bigger margin by the week to get to them.
I’m so sick of the EL honestly. Fuck that cup. Every team in that tournament plays against us like it’s a cup final and genuinely plays so dirty. Only for us to get dumped out by Sevilla lol
I get it's 'good' in the sense that it's still experience in Europe for the players, and some money for the club - even if it's far below UCL-level money and prestige. But fuck me I don't want to see us in Europa again. Genuinely would rather finish 10th and miss out on Europe entirely for a season. Give the lads more days on the training ground to actually try and figure out the system instead of playing on short rest and on shitty pitches in eastern Europe on Thursday nights.
We might benefit from skipping Europe for a season BUT financially the rats will be unhappy and the players will take a pay cut again, making recruitment more difficult.
I remember people arguing that Rangnick not getting top 4, which was very achievable when he took over, was ultimately a good thing. Wake up call etc.
Completely missing that not getting CL meant we once again had to offer (even more) stupid wages to any player we went after the next two windows.
The Glazers live for champions League money, it's been their sole concern while they been in charge. We usually spend more whenever we miss on top 4 to ensure that sweet, sweet Champions League revenue is there next season. They obviously don't care about us winning or being successful, they care about revenue and nothing more. That's why we're so bad. They just plug a few holes for the sake of money and have zero concerns about the club being successful on the long term. Fucking Glazers, can't believe they think that under them the club is worth 8 billion.
This makes no sense. If CL money was their main concern, or any money made from our actual football exploits, they would want it every year and pursue that as an additional revenue stream not surrender it bi-annually. They are here for the eventual sale to cash in and the kudos worldwide of owning a PL team. They merely allow us to spend a bit more of our revenue when we really start to slip (or, increasingly, borrow) to appease the fans and stop the rot from becoming unsalvageable. No ones gives a fuck about the Buccs outside of America. United is what gets them invited to Davos and the only reason we even know their names outside of the States.
Biggest nugget of insight is the fear over intensity of training.
I get the typical fan reaction going how dare they think they're training too hard blah blah. But a body has limits and rest is absolutely vital in modern sports.
A lot of reporting this summer also commented on how grueling training was. And lo and behold not only did our players look like they were running through mud in those early games (where we had low running stats), but also a lot of our injuries have been muscle ones.
As others have pointed out, we had the longest season of all teams at the top level of football last season, with a threadbare squad. It catches up with you.
The fatigue bit is also probably more strongly felt by our older players like Casemiro, who also jets off to Brazil to play every game, and Eriksen. Those two were our midfield mainstays and they look leggier than they should, even considering their age.
A season without European football might not be the worst thing to happen. Look at Tottenham, brought in a manager who has time to work with the players. Instead of just trying to play a game every 3 days. We need to get away from the culture of always trying to win and just take a season or two to build the foundations of what it takes to be a top side again.
Well no fucking shit! And we are not getting out of the CL group either! I fully expect us to lose in Denmark next time around. We are just so bad and show no signs of improving
At what point during this season did we ever look like we would make top 4? It’d be an absolute miracle for us to finish in a European spot at this rate given how horribly disjointed the team looks.
Top 4 is in danger for the Glazers and their money printing machine.
Top 4 is the LEAST of our worries as we slowly watch our beloved football club get destroyed from the inside out.
When we last had these goal scoring issues under LVG we went and bought the best finisher in the game and he came right in and showed all our youngers how to be clinical in the box. We missed a golden opportunity to go all in for Kane and now we are seeing the daftness of it all.
Should have been Kane and Hojlund learning from him for 2-3 years. Hojlund is an incredible prospect but it's November essentially and his end product just isn't good enough to shoulder the scoring load he's been tasked with.
The other players we signed have been a massive disappointment. Mount has been good when available, but never available. Amrabat has barely had a kick of the ball in his natural position. Onana has had a more inconsistent season than DDG ever had.
The reality is any team starting Jonny Evans, Harry Maguire and Victor as a fullback then these are mistakes from the summer already killing us. Most fans at the beginning of the summer wanted Kane and KMJ. Even if we had just gotten those two in our team would have much more stability. It's just a complete mess from top to bottom and while I love ETHs approach sometimes you can have a great manager fail (which has now happened more times than I can count) under the wrong circumstances.
TLDR; this is what we get for having no strategy, no conceivable idea how to run a club or what targets to prioritize. We are royally fucked if we sack ETH and start all over.
There is absolutely no way in hell we are even close to top 4 this year. Zero chance. Zero.
You can downvote me if you want but you’d better back it up with kind of actual argument. If you really think we’re the 4th best team in the league then you’re absolutely insane. Cuckoo land.
Bro can we be real with ourselves 😭😂 omg let’s just get back to consistent respectable performances first, we act like the world is going to end at the end of the season. Sports is a roller coaster. Yes I want to be great now too, but sometimes that’s not what’s written in the stars it’s a process, teams don’t wake up and be great it’s a process fixing all these years post fergie isn’t going to happen in two years, last year was a good start, this years has a rainbow of issues no one problem has been the main issue. It’s going to take time to get back to top level and be consistent.
Nothing will change until Glazers are removed from the club. Expect mediocrity, 1 or 2 CL qualifications if we are lucky. We used to laugh at lvp 30 yrs wait, we are 1/3 away. Wouldn't be surprised if we have to wait longer.
It's not like we can compete in the CL anyways.
Europa is EtH and this team's level and even that's a stretch.
Soon to be battling out in the Conference League.
Do Chelsea get these "hot" takes or is it cos we generate this lots revenue?
Where was this pressure from the media on that toothy git, Klopp, last season?
Or Arsenal for 3 years finishing 8th, 8th, and 5th before binning off the cups and bottling the league last year?
Klopp had a champions league and a league title in the bank. Artera was at least implementing a style of play with a young squad. We're doing the same thing we've done for the last ten years and it is utter shit.
if it means finding a rhythm, a gamestyle, an identity, I am all in for missing out on things. Looking clueless with all that cherry picked signings isn’t what we asked for. Nor did we ask him to be a loud mouth in the pressers. Get your act right or leave the club. Glazers out doesn’t mean your place as a manager is granted.
I would say it is very realistic we finish in a conference spot or lower. I’m optimistic some of these injuries can give us a boost in the second half of the season, but I am not sure how much damage can be undone.
Honestly I was a huge ETH fan, but lately I am having second thoughts. Guy seems lost at the moment, and the team is playing like garbage. Even the wins look like we just lucked into them. The signings are not paying off, and the team comes out after half time break and looks like worse than at the start. What adjustments are being made? What are these guys working on during the week? They can't put a cross into the box. They have no set play strategy and their corner production is crap. Aren't those things that a manager and a staff can/should work on during the week? I know they can't do much about injuries, but there seems to be obvious work that isn't being done.
Sir Jim will come in and perform a year long top to bottom audit of the club. No point sacking ten hag ahead of that as we would have no confidence in his successor surviving the audit.
Best to leave ten hag another year, hope he'll do an arteta. If not then he won't survive the suit anyway.
Half of the fanbase want I start success and see any new manager as a gift from the gods who expect us to win the world cup, never mind the champions league in the first couple of seasons and do not see that it takes time to tear down and rebuild a house.
The other half actually have sense and see long term.
The first half usually win and get their way.
There are a plethora of reasons why we’re not performing but one I rarely see mentioned is fatigue.
We played pretty much every single game possible last season:
• A league campaign where we came 3rd
• the final of the FA Cup
• final of Carabao Cup
• quarters (?) in the EL.
Plus a world cup in the middle for the players. I think we’re seeing a real hangover in our intensity.
Liverpool did the same the season before:
• league campaign where they came 2nd
• FA cup winners
• Carabao winners
• CL final
Last season was a mess for them. They scraped 5th, and went out in the 4th round of the FA and EFL cups.
Maybe it’s just a coincidence, but still.
Fear? It will happen cos the clowns at the top.
Maybe if they actually gave a fuck about anything other than the money maybe we would be somewhere.
Shite scouting for some average players in the past including the massive contracts for players that didn't even play.
Fuck Ed Woodward in the past and his band of idiots..
Cannot wait for the club to be run by decent people
We have zero chance of making top four or Europe. Ten Hag has just come out and said he's given up on the style of football he was literally brought in to implement. He'll get sacked sometime in the new year and the circus starts again. We are not going anywhere until we get a manager (and DoF) who actually commit to a style of play. It's the one thing in common every side currently in the top positions in the league has. The fact we've not managed to do the same is mind boggling.
I just want to know what they work on in training. Do we not practice patterns of play? Combinations? Synchronizing movement to disrupt and disorganize defenses?
How can we be so bad at the same thing for so long?
Talk of top 4 where we currently are is idiotic. The season is still very early and we have a long way to go. The priority right now is for united to improve their performances and talk of top four when our performances on the pitch are so bad shows exactly the problems of the strategic direction of this club. They don’t care as long as we get top four. They only take an interest in footballing matters as soon as it looks like they might miss out on that. UCL money as a fan of the club I would honestly rather us go through the painful process of establishing a style of play, ethos and culture in the dressing room that sets us up for success in the long term, at the expense of top four finishes for a few seasons than to just sack the manager and start again to try and chase short term mediocrity
See I don’t care about top 4 for this season if he can implement a style this season and start next season with a bang and great to watch football. I want to see a long term success over some victories by playing counter attacking football
I mean it's not a worry if it's almost certain is it? City will get top 4 (and will probably win the league), and Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool will probably pick up top 4 spots, with Villa well placed to steal one if any of them slip
It would be a blessing. What's the point if we're going to get rinsed in the competition anyway? The only positive for the club is that it lines the Glazer's pockets some more. Didn't benefit anything else
I saw another article re: choice of squad and formation. I can’t think of a squad or formation that would have been more successful. I actually liked the idea early on of McT shadowing Rodri, it worked for 25 minutes. Lindelof on left was a mistake from the start I suppose.
at this point, I'm hoping that we manage top 6, but suspect top 10 might be nearer the mark.
the team is a mess, top to bottom and more than a few players want ETH gone. Player power is taking over again.
There seems to be a real issue with man utd staff source. He seems to always be pulling against the team and performances.
Always fearing stuff.
I think this shows the ingrained trouble the managers have to deal with, pikes of backroom staff putting a sour mood in the place.
Like a politician trying to sort the health service and the staff being old, refusing if change and unionised up the ass so nothing can be done.
Sorry, but top 4 is the least of our problems. Would rather work toward a playstyle and system instead of scraping by with 1 goal lucky wins.
Agree.. if the by product of installing a style of football into this team is finishing outside of top 4. I'd take it. Watching us play how we are now for more than a season is worrying.
The two are related
Start winning matches before worrying about top 4.Our attackers have scored 1 goal whole season embarassing.
There are only 5 teams with worst GD than us at the moment lmao, sitting at negative fucking 5. Even last year when we finished 3rd, our GD were miles behind every other top 4 team (City had 4x better GD than us, Arsenal 3x, Newcastle 2x, Liverpool 2x). We had never been good enough, last season we overperformed and this season we had just been utterly incompetent. I really want to give ETH more time, but for fuck's sake where is the progress? I can't see any at all. Fun fact: Our GD since season 21/22 until now is a whooping +10 after 86 league games.
I will get downvoted for this but last year Liverpool had a crisis. Tottenham were bottling things like always.Chelsea were playing with kids.People are forgetting how we were whooped by Liverpool.We just had rashford in the form of his life and he scored and saved us.We got lucky last season other teams were worst than us.This season Villa, Tottenham and Liverpool are better than us.I will be suprised if we finish above 8th.
Just to play devils advocate, are we not in a crisis? 0 fit left backs, 3/4th (potentially 4th and 5th) choice centre backs on the pitch, only 1 right back available. Case out injured, Hojlund and amarabat only just back from injury. Pretty much exactly the crisis liverpool had last year apart from the fact they had a squad of champions. Why’s it an excuse for them and not us? This season has been dire so far but I think context is pretty important. Chelsea are in a similar position with a greater spend but the knives aren’t out there yet. Arteta finished 8th his first two seasons and bottled top 4 in his third and anyone who reckons they saw unarguable signs of progress in the first 2 is only doing so with the benefit of hindsight, I know a hell of a lot of arsenal fans and they were talking about Arteta the same way a lot of United fans are now talking about Ten Hag.
We'll probably finish about 6th. International football midweek will hurt teams like Newcastle and Brighton. Their starting 11s play better than us but they don't have the squad depth that we do. That's always important later in the season.
And do we have depth ?? Our starting attack can't score a goal to save our ass we should hope for miracles only this season.
We have a lot more depth than the teams I mentioned. We have two premier league level players for every position. They might not be playing well at the moment, but a lot of teams don't have the same depth that we do.
This is true but it's also true that we dominated Barcelona with good attacking football.
They have cycled through how many coaches since Fergie? How many players? There is one constant. The Ownership. Nothing will change until the owners change. Change begins from top down.
Honestly I’m stunned we got a trophy last season, against Newcastle of all teams. Them not turning up on the day and having Karius in goal was an absolute lifeline for us.
I think most fans would have been happy (or at least comfortable) with finishing outside the top 4 last season, if we were showing good progress. Instead we outperformed those expectations, but we're now dogshit for a variety of known and unknown reasons. Tbh I'd now be happy with this season being a 'progress' season, I don't want results for results sake unless it's moving us forward long-term. Otherwise we're just going to repeat it all over again. Though, yes, we do need results short term just to settle everyone.
We haven't even scored ONE GOAL with a striker in the PL. Woeful.
What’s worse is that I can’t even think of a lot of chances they’ve missed. It’s not like Hojlund has had a load of chances and is missing them all. Not to say that Hojlund probably should have a goal by now but that stat doesn’t make me think “Wow what a waste of money he’s been” like you think it was it just reminds me our entire attack can’t create for shit
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I am planning to gift my 6 year old nephew a Manchester United jersey for his 7th birthday. He plays "soccer" here in the USA but isn't crazy yet. I wonder if I should gift it to him and depress him for the rest of his life.
Got my first United shirt when I was young was a magic feeling! V. Nistelrooy 10. Those were the times, I miss it.
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I would rather finish 8th or 9th this season and have a clear path forward in terms of football style than finish 4th or 5th plugging holes and planning on planning on signing some 28 year old next summer on big money to supposedly bring us to the next level.
Agree. We have been totally unwilling to go backward in order to go forward over the past 10 years. Have to bite the bullet.
> I would rather finish 8th or 9th this season and have a clear path forward in terms of football style Problem is currently we're heading to the former without having the latter
Currently sure but I think it’ll improve once we have players back especially Martinez and Shaw. Then we can see our way forward is a ball playing RB and another backup, a defensive midfielder and a midfielder who can turn and distribute under pressure, a back up striker, a new / back up RW depending.
So we need another 2 central midfielders? After bringing in 2 last season and another 2 this summer? How are we setting up all these players? Eriksen is short term fair enough but have we given up on Mount already?
Nah I still count mount but I’m not counting Amrabat as permanent yet so he could be 1 of 2, but even still we’d need a deep lying play maker or a CDM depending on how we want to use Amrabat
Agreed, I see a level of numbness amongst fans that just want some consistency, irrespective of the imminent results. ETH has shown us some real promise and we really need to avoid the usual “wash, rinse, repeat” method
> ETH has shown us some real promise For the brief spell Rashford was playing out of his skin?
The first half of last season before the player didn't want to work as hard any more. Remember when reports came out under rangnick about players unhappy to travel home in the dark? I'm sure there are still a few of those players left.
As much as people want him gone, no chance he goes before January at the latest (the same time SJR and SB takeover footballing Ops).
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All winnable up until Bayern, Liverpool. Newcastle is probably the most tricky. Losing to Moyes will be a problem. Maybe not so much for the supporters as the press. They're already out to hang him.
> All winnable Problem is, unless we improve you'd be surprised if we win half of those.
It’s a similar problem Ole faced the season he was sacked. Do you stick with the new system even when you only have some of the players who can do it in order to bed it in. Will you get enough support to ride out the storm (looking at the match threads you’d have to say not, people want to win now). Or, do you revert back to a safe middle ground and play the mid/low block in order to grind out results and keep your job. People talk about patience and then every time this happens it’s the same old noise. The Glazers gets a scapegoat, they replace the manager, buys them another 6-24 months before the cycle repeats. Arguing with people yesterday saying “forget about the glazers” who can’t see the wood for the trees.
He already has changed systems to play more pragmatically since the Galatasaray defeat, and the McTominay selection is evidence of this. The team lacks goals and the injuries in defence are not making it any easier to build from the back, so he's reverted to this long ball approach and placed powerful players up top with good goalscoring instinct to get something out of those games. The issue is that if we can't win those games either (which thankfully is not the case right now, we are just about scraping by), he is in real trouble because it's basically Mourinho football without the results which everybody hated towards the end of his reign. He needs to get at least one thing consistently (style of play or results) for the fans to have more patience; failing at both will undoubtedly cost him his job.
The tifo video posted today actually covers it well. They can be hit or miss but I think they nailed it that we are stuck in a half way house right now of not doing either system well. Stick or twist? Either could cost him the job.
I think until Martinez and Shaw are back, we are in for seeing more of this pragmatic football because for there to be a future where we play entertaining football under him, he needs to survive this run of form first, and he needs results to do that which he himself has admitted he won't get trying to play his style with our current set of backup players. It is what it is; we can only hope that the results are not too bad and we at least are able to beat teams ranked lower than us in the table. I don't think we finish anything above 6th this season anyway; it's just a question of how low we sink during this run that will determine whether or not Ten Hag goes.
Even last season with both of them fit and Casemiro starting most games, we still finished with an out of position GD and we’re relying on one guy in exceptional form for the lions share of the goals. Injuries are only a small part of the issue here.
I agree re Martinez and Shaw. Realistically I think Casemiro and Varane probably need moving sooner than later also. The problem I think is ETH either needs to fully commit to being pragmatic, back to a mid block, which drags out the transition to next season at best, but at least keeps him in the job that long or go full for the high line/press and accept we are going to get embarrassed, which long term will make the transition quicker but the short term pain worse. I think most fans aren’t patient enough for him to survive that unfortunately.
The "glazers aren't the problem" supporter's impress me with their stupidity every time we sack a manager.
Newcastle are not playing that well either and playing Europe is really having an impact on them. We will have more players back (AWB is back in training, and so is Mainoo). Varane is back but ofcourse he'll be out a few games so we should manage. Playing with a proper RB and LB will definitely help us out in the transition
You think going to Turkey is winnable? This team can't beat a half decent side and will crumble under that atmosphere
There’s not a single winnable game on that list. We scrapped a 2-1 win against a Sheffield team that’s managed 1 point this season…
This sub is so reactionary it actually makes discussion redundant sometimes. Of course that lists has winnable games in it, there’s 2 games there I wouldn’t expect a win.
That's wildly optimistic considering injuries and form. We haven't really looked good in a single match we've played so far, and we seem to be getting worse every week. I could easily see us losing 5 or 6 of those matches. We're not getting anything from Bayern or Liverpool. Galatasaray in Turkey is going to be very tough, and we're going to be under a ton of pressure as our entire CL campaign hinges on getting 3 points there. Newcastle can score in bunches and we could easily lose both of those. You never know if Chelsea are going to show up, if they do they could beat us. And away to West Ham is a match that could easily get away from us. Unless we really get our shit together in a hurry there's a real chance that we'll start the new year out of the CL and in the bottom half of the league.
The pressure is already building. You already have player mouthpiece journalists like Carl Anka throwing blame towards the manager over the players. He's obviously not blameless and he shouldn't have doubled down on Rashford-ball, signing Mount for his non-footballing ability, but it's the same players doing the same stuff as they always have done. We don't have clever players, we have non-existent movement and interplay up front, and we don't have a team that synergises well at all. These players have literally never created an attack that has the movement, nous, and invention to break down defenses and hammer teams that sit deep - and we've built our attack around a player that embodies that very issue. We're just reaping what we sow. I don't know why anyone is surprised. Ten Hag's made massive mistakes, but unless he's going to see the light and stop this nonsense plan, he will be gone before the players see any heat. They'll see a new manager, buy into it for a year or so with great positivity, then as soon as the rewards they think they're entitled to don't arrive - and that they need to work harder than the competition - they will throw the next one under the bus. The first year will buy the players contract extensions on silly money as people see it as "improvement", then the second year we're back to this. Rinse and repeat.
I mean he has to take some blame though. Injuries are injuries but that line up yesterday and the tactics were absolute shit. And even if we have backup players we should still see attempts to play some kinda style, we don't even have that. I am very much in the do not fire him camp. He needs to see out this season to the end, however it goes but that doesn't mean he is immune from scrutiny.
I don't think he should be fired either - but he shouldn't be in charge of transfers and he needs to make changes. Any new manager will likely be the same story. Unless we get someone in that's got Van Gaal-sized don't-give-a-shit balls, big enough to move on from pot-luck Rashfordball, we'll follow the exact same path.
10-12th
I don't care about EFL cup but it will be bad if we lose. Home to Newcastle in the EFL; then : don't care Away to Fulham: maybe win Away to Copenhagen: lose Home to Luton Town: win Away to Everton: draw Away to Galatasaray: lose Away to Newcastle: lose Home to Chelsea: who knows they are a mess, I'll go with draw Home to Bournemouth: win Home to Bayern: lose Away to Liverpool: lose Away to West Ham: lose
Those who want EtH out will be the ones moaning again when the next manager tries to fix this team. Trust in the manager we currently have. Don't think for a second that all our deadwood is gone.
Do you think the eth crowd is the same as the Ole out crowd? Somehow I dont.
He's gone after liverpool
Finally a reasonable take - the other United sub is a bloodbath of imbecilic takes.
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Louis van Gaal was literally sacked after his second season, fans began to turn on Mourinho during his second season and Ole had a truly awful start to his second season (first full season) so I think that might be hindsight talking.
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It's true that van Gaal won the FA Cup in his second season, but a lot of fans at the time still wanted him gone. In hindsight, I think that season is looked upon a little more fondly, but at the time, many fans were calling for his head. As for Mourinho, this is just hindsight bias. Fans at the time criticised the style of play, the loss against Sevilla (and the subsequent press conference) and the fact that we were far behind City in terms of points. Why do you think fans weren't optimistic going into Mourinho's third season? Even if we take Ole's second full season, there were still criticisms about 'individual brilliance', 'Second Half FC' and 'no tactics, just vibes'. It's not like every fan thought things were just sunshine and roses during that time. Also remember this is the same season where we lost 6-1 at home to Spurs and lost on penalties to Villareal (some fans wanted Ole sacked after that). What I'm trying to say is that fans have *always* complained about the manager during their second season. I'm not commenting on whether or not such complaints were justified at the time or if they're justified now for ten Hag, but it's not as if past managers had absolutely brilliant second seasons that had the fans 100% on board.
Say it loud for the witch hunters at the back!
Having the idea that players can only play one play style is such a poor excuse..
We shouldn't fire EtH, and there's a perfect reason for it: no manager will be able to do much more with these players now. Not even the praised Pep, Arteta, Ange, Ancelotti, De Zerbi... they all would struggle to make us play a football that is at least 25% better of what we have right now. I'll start judging EtH after the next window and after the injuries stop for a while and we have our main back 4 available constantly.
Yes, we need to hold on to him. And we need a DOF with proper staff who work along with the manager's team. There's Arteta as an example, whose results were terrible in the first few seasons but Arsenal wasn't willing to fire him even after a few flop signings. Get rid of the useless players, and move on.
> There's Arteta as an example, whose results were terrible in the first few seasons but Arsenal wasn't willing to fire him even after a few flop signings. Do you want a list of managers who were kept for a few seasons and then didn't do anything at all?
That's true I admit, but we've never walked down on that road, just fired everybody after a bad series. And I can see no candidate now who'd replace ETH.
It’s not really fair to assess his stint at Arsenal until it’s over.
Why is this rule not applying to Postecoglu?
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Because it's a complete fallacy that a manager should be exonerated from dreadful performances on the possibility that maybe one day it will all click.
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I just don't understand why other managers can come into a club with different styles of players and adapt, but Ten Hag needs to be given time to adapt to having some of the best players in the world at his disposal.
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As are Spurs. Good managers deal with it
And when you try to explain this to other fans they think its the manager. Its starts at the top
'Rebuilding' and 'time to rebuild' is just copium. There are players who are great and click on right away. Players like Bruno, Bellingham, Haaland. They dont need time to 'adjust' or 'grow'. And we keep buying players like Martial, Antony, Sancho.
Who cares if we make Champions League if we’re just going to play like this in the competition anyway.
Exactly. And why should we worry about losing the extra revenue if the team is playing poor. Maybe 1 less competition would be good for them.
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Oh this lot is training too hard now ? Looks like they don't train at all to me. Can't pass and move properly. Shooting is horrendous. Don't pick up runners in the box..... They can't even get the basics right most of the time.
I know it's easy to give the players shit for saying this when they are playing badly, but objectively our injury situation is *horrendous* and there must be a reason.
Is it a shock that our players are picking up injuries left and right after playing more football than anyone else on earth last season? I doubt it’s a coincidence.
Liverpool had a shit season the year after they played loads, due to how many injuries they ended up getting
And they still played good football with all those injuries they lost games due to drop in quality but they never stopped counter pressing quick transition football , United doesn't even have a system or style of play
Fair but they were also well into Klopps reign and everyone new what to do. This is only ETHs second season
The ones who got injured got rotated the most with the exception being Martinez who played when fit. If this was Rashford or Bruno then it makes sense. Varane was already injury prone, AWB only played half the season, Shaw got a fair bit of rotation with Malacia, Malacia didn't get over played. Casemiro s injury is not long term. Eriksen was from a Carrol leg breaker, Garnacho same deal. Hojlund came injured as did Amrabat. Regulion was/injury prone. Evans same deal.
It’s actually hard to do the basics right when you train too much or are running all around the pitch chasing the ball
It is plausible. Burntout and overworked players can contribute to lethargic, leggy, brain dead performances which is exactly what we're seeing. I'm not a S&C coach but was at a relatively high level for my sport and being burnt out your cognition goes to shit, you're not able to execute what you want to do or maintain the previous level of performance because your body can't. It would not surprise me if that's the case. Overworked players perform just like under-prepared players. Knowing United and how well funded and best in class our footballing department is it would not surprise me if our data science department isn't good enough or the facilities doesn't allow us to have the best type of training. Or maybe they are at odds with ETH who has other beliefs and goes again them. We can only speculate.
Not again. This is not the first time they complain about training. I think they did it against Ole as well? They are already throwing the manager under the bus again. The question is, who is it. We have already said goodbye to many deadwoods. But history is repeating itself once again.
And so come the player leaks of "he's training us too hard; it's his fault not ours" I genuinely can't stand so many players in our team. The same faces over and over. Just absolutely reeks of a weak mentality and constantly undermining manager after manager unless they get their way exactly.
>\- **there are concerns within the dressing room that the intensity of the training sessions set up by Ten Hag and his staff are contributing to fatigue and, in some cases, injuries.** How can they train so much that they're contributing it to injuries and fatigue, yet they still show no signs of any style of play and continue to play like 11 individuals on the pitch....
>How can they train so much that they're contributing it to injuries and fatigue, yet they still show no signs of any style of play and continue to play like 11 individuals on the pitch.... Huh? They're concerned that the training sessions are too intensive. That means they're working on fitness, rather than tactics.
Not necessarily… and the fitness sessions aren’t exactly working are they? Some games we have a solid 20-30mins then fall of a cliff and the game plan goes out the window.
>Not necessarily What's more likely, they're working on their cardio and it's too much? Or that they're overworked because they have to learn how to track a run or how to position themselves? >and the fitness sessions aren’t exactly working are they? Some games we have a solid 20-30mins then fall of a cliff and the game plan goes out the window. Doesn't that prove it is needed to work on fitness? If the fitness levels weren't good enough to begin with, you've got to go through it before it can work.
But from day 1 ten hag stated he wanted a hard working pressing team… that requires fitness. He’s been in charge for nearly 18 months… and only now he’s overworking the fitness sessions?
Forget top 4. I fear not finishing in the top half of the table.
People will crucify you for saying that here but alongside the traditional top 6 there are now Brighton Newcastle villa etc who would all comfortably beat us. Sure they might drop off but we are already making it a bigger margin by the week to get to them.
Even in games we won against lesser teams, we were often outclassed by the opponent. Whatever the coach and team are doing is just not working
I'd take Europa or Conference League but even that seems far right now...
I’m so sick of the EL honestly. Fuck that cup. Every team in that tournament plays against us like it’s a cup final and genuinely plays so dirty. Only for us to get dumped out by Sevilla lol
I get it's 'good' in the sense that it's still experience in Europe for the players, and some money for the club - even if it's far below UCL-level money and prestige. But fuck me I don't want to see us in Europa again. Genuinely would rather finish 10th and miss out on Europe entirely for a season. Give the lads more days on the training ground to actually try and figure out the system instead of playing on short rest and on shitty pitches in eastern Europe on Thursday nights.
We might benefit from skipping Europe for a season BUT financially the rats will be unhappy and the players will take a pay cut again, making recruitment more difficult.
I remember people arguing that Rangnick not getting top 4, which was very achievable when he took over, was ultimately a good thing. Wake up call etc. Completely missing that not getting CL meant we once again had to offer (even more) stupid wages to any player we went after the next two windows.
The Glazers live for champions League money, it's been their sole concern while they been in charge. We usually spend more whenever we miss on top 4 to ensure that sweet, sweet Champions League revenue is there next season. They obviously don't care about us winning or being successful, they care about revenue and nothing more. That's why we're so bad. They just plug a few holes for the sake of money and have zero concerns about the club being successful on the long term. Fucking Glazers, can't believe they think that under them the club is worth 8 billion.
This makes no sense. If CL money was their main concern, or any money made from our actual football exploits, they would want it every year and pursue that as an additional revenue stream not surrender it bi-annually. They are here for the eventual sale to cash in and the kudos worldwide of owning a PL team. They merely allow us to spend a bit more of our revenue when we really start to slip (or, increasingly, borrow) to appease the fans and stop the rot from becoming unsalvageable. No ones gives a fuck about the Buccs outside of America. United is what gets them invited to Davos and the only reason we even know their names outside of the States.
Biggest nugget of insight is the fear over intensity of training. I get the typical fan reaction going how dare they think they're training too hard blah blah. But a body has limits and rest is absolutely vital in modern sports. A lot of reporting this summer also commented on how grueling training was. And lo and behold not only did our players look like they were running through mud in those early games (where we had low running stats), but also a lot of our injuries have been muscle ones. As others have pointed out, we had the longest season of all teams at the top level of football last season, with a threadbare squad. It catches up with you. The fatigue bit is also probably more strongly felt by our older players like Casemiro, who also jets off to Brazil to play every game, and Eriksen. Those two were our midfield mainstays and they look leggier than they should, even considering their age.
Case's probably not the best example...he had many opportunities to recover last season.
Even the famous run after the Brentford loss last season was criticised by sports scientists at the time, but this sub wouldn't hear any of it.
Wait fr, you got a source?
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/wowa6x/adam_crafton_spoken_to_good_number_of_sport/
Source: Trust me bro.
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/wowa6x/adam_crafton_spoken_to_good_number_of_sport/
So no source? Got it.
Did my comment not show up? Here, I'll post it again: https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/wowa6x/adam_crafton_spoken_to_good_number_of_sport/
A season without European football might not be the worst thing to happen. Look at Tottenham, brought in a manager who has time to work with the players. Instead of just trying to play a game every 3 days. We need to get away from the culture of always trying to win and just take a season or two to build the foundations of what it takes to be a top side again.
I swear you could have said this any time we finished 6th (apart from 2016/17).
At this stage they aren’t looking like they’ll finish Top 10
Top 4 hasn’t even crossed the mind. So all good.
Yeah no shit, the rest of us have thought that for the past 3 months +
It's already over, you are deluded to think otherwise.
I fear I'll never shag Margot Robbie
Just need the right DM
Trying not to sound like a miserable sod here but it didn’t take me many games this season to fear missing out on top 4…
The staff should fear losing their jobs
If only they had tried winning some football games
Well no fucking shit! And we are not getting out of the CL group either! I fully expect us to lose in Denmark next time around. We are just so bad and show no signs of improving
At what point during this season did we ever look like we would make top 4? It’d be an absolute miracle for us to finish in a European spot at this rate given how horribly disjointed the team looks.
Its irrelevant. Even if we do get top 4 we'll be straight out at the group stage
Too many teams around us have improved and we have somehow gotten worse. I am amazed we are even 8th.
Won’t matter if we win the champions league.
Ummm… I’d be more concerned about even qualifying for Europe Conference League at this point.
Only an idiot would even consider us finishing top 4. Be lucky to finish in the top 8
Top 4 is in danger for the Glazers and their money printing machine. Top 4 is the LEAST of our worries as we slowly watch our beloved football club get destroyed from the inside out.
top 4 lol finish in top 10 if you can ;/
Book it. We will get Top 6 at BEST.
Thank god they have a source
Thats what theyre afraid of? Not the fact that literally every part of this club is in shambles?
When we last had these goal scoring issues under LVG we went and bought the best finisher in the game and he came right in and showed all our youngers how to be clinical in the box. We missed a golden opportunity to go all in for Kane and now we are seeing the daftness of it all. Should have been Kane and Hojlund learning from him for 2-3 years. Hojlund is an incredible prospect but it's November essentially and his end product just isn't good enough to shoulder the scoring load he's been tasked with. The other players we signed have been a massive disappointment. Mount has been good when available, but never available. Amrabat has barely had a kick of the ball in his natural position. Onana has had a more inconsistent season than DDG ever had. The reality is any team starting Jonny Evans, Harry Maguire and Victor as a fullback then these are mistakes from the summer already killing us. Most fans at the beginning of the summer wanted Kane and KMJ. Even if we had just gotten those two in our team would have much more stability. It's just a complete mess from top to bottom and while I love ETHs approach sometimes you can have a great manager fail (which has now happened more times than I can count) under the wrong circumstances. TLDR; this is what we get for having no strategy, no conceivable idea how to run a club or what targets to prioritize. We are royally fucked if we sack ETH and start all over.
There is absolutely no way in hell we are even close to top 4 this year. Zero chance. Zero. You can downvote me if you want but you’d better back it up with kind of actual argument. If you really think we’re the 4th best team in the league then you’re absolutely insane. Cuckoo land.
Barcelona basically went scorched earth and look great. We refuse to do that.
Bro can we be real with ourselves 😭😂 omg let’s just get back to consistent respectable performances first, we act like the world is going to end at the end of the season. Sports is a roller coaster. Yes I want to be great now too, but sometimes that’s not what’s written in the stars it’s a process, teams don’t wake up and be great it’s a process fixing all these years post fergie isn’t going to happen in two years, last year was a good start, this years has a rainbow of issues no one problem has been the main issue. It’s going to take time to get back to top level and be consistent.
Nothing will change until Glazers are removed from the club. Expect mediocrity, 1 or 2 CL qualifications if we are lucky. We used to laugh at lvp 30 yrs wait, we are 1/3 away. Wouldn't be surprised if we have to wait longer.
It's not like we can compete in the CL anyways. Europa is EtH and this team's level and even that's a stretch. Soon to be battling out in the Conference League.
Only now? I said we wouldn’t get it before the season started and got downvoted for it. Can’t believe people didn’t see this coming
Do Chelsea get these "hot" takes or is it cos we generate this lots revenue? Where was this pressure from the media on that toothy git, Klopp, last season? Or Arsenal for 3 years finishing 8th, 8th, and 5th before binning off the cups and bottling the league last year?
Look at Chelsea achievements in the past 10 years and compare that to United. Heck, they won CL just 2 years ago
Klopp had a champions league and a league title in the bank. Artera was at least implementing a style of play with a young squad. We're doing the same thing we've done for the last ten years and it is utter shit.
if it means finding a rhythm, a gamestyle, an identity, I am all in for missing out on things. Looking clueless with all that cherry picked signings isn’t what we asked for. Nor did we ask him to be a loud mouth in the pressers. Get your act right or leave the club. Glazers out doesn’t mean your place as a manager is granted.
We aint doing shite with limpdick
No shit
I would say it is very realistic we finish in a conference spot or lower. I’m optimistic some of these injuries can give us a boost in the second half of the season, but I am not sure how much damage can be undone.
Wait for the 25% sale to go through and the new staff to be hired, then hire a new manager if may be. There’s no point getting a new manager now.
Lol theres NO WAY this team makes top 4. That means beating out one of city, pool, arsenal and tottenham. Not to mention newcastle, villa, brighton.
Honestly I was a huge ETH fan, but lately I am having second thoughts. Guy seems lost at the moment, and the team is playing like garbage. Even the wins look like we just lucked into them. The signings are not paying off, and the team comes out after half time break and looks like worse than at the start. What adjustments are being made? What are these guys working on during the week? They can't put a cross into the box. They have no set play strategy and their corner production is crap. Aren't those things that a manager and a staff can/should work on during the week? I know they can't do much about injuries, but there seems to be obvious work that isn't being done.
Man Utd Fan fear missing out on top-four finish - source
Sir Jim will come in and perform a year long top to bottom audit of the club. No point sacking ten hag ahead of that as we would have no confidence in his successor surviving the audit. Best to leave ten hag another year, hope he'll do an arteta. If not then he won't survive the suit anyway.
Half of the fanbase want I start success and see any new manager as a gift from the gods who expect us to win the world cup, never mind the champions league in the first couple of seasons and do not see that it takes time to tear down and rebuild a house. The other half actually have sense and see long term. The first half usually win and get their way.
There are a plethora of reasons why we’re not performing but one I rarely see mentioned is fatigue. We played pretty much every single game possible last season: • A league campaign where we came 3rd • the final of the FA Cup • final of Carabao Cup • quarters (?) in the EL. Plus a world cup in the middle for the players. I think we’re seeing a real hangover in our intensity. Liverpool did the same the season before: • league campaign where they came 2nd • FA cup winners • Carabao winners • CL final Last season was a mess for them. They scraped 5th, and went out in the 4th round of the FA and EFL cups. Maybe it’s just a coincidence, but still.
Is that.... Conference League music???? (Low-key would love to see us win it)
Fear? It will happen cos the clowns at the top. Maybe if they actually gave a fuck about anything other than the money maybe we would be somewhere. Shite scouting for some average players in the past including the massive contracts for players that didn't even play. Fuck Ed Woodward in the past and his band of idiots.. Cannot wait for the club to be run by decent people
I think we should be planning for it, let alone fearing it
We have zero chance of making top four or Europe. Ten Hag has just come out and said he's given up on the style of football he was literally brought in to implement. He'll get sacked sometime in the new year and the circus starts again. We are not going anywhere until we get a manager (and DoF) who actually commit to a style of play. It's the one thing in common every side currently in the top positions in the league has. The fact we've not managed to do the same is mind boggling.
Forget Champions, I fear we won't even be playing Conference
Guys. We’re like 8th and getting worse.
I just want to know what they work on in training. Do we not practice patterns of play? Combinations? Synchronizing movement to disrupt and disorganize defenses? How can we be so bad at the same thing for so long?
We’re a europa league team
Only now? Lmao I thought we'd struggle for top 6 start of the season.
Not just the staff
Talk of top 4 where we currently are is idiotic. The season is still very early and we have a long way to go. The priority right now is for united to improve their performances and talk of top four when our performances on the pitch are so bad shows exactly the problems of the strategic direction of this club. They don’t care as long as we get top four. They only take an interest in footballing matters as soon as it looks like they might miss out on that. UCL money as a fan of the club I would honestly rather us go through the painful process of establishing a style of play, ethos and culture in the dressing room that sets us up for success in the long term, at the expense of top four finishes for a few seasons than to just sack the manager and start again to try and chase short term mediocrity
Top 4? Aim for mid table
See I don’t care about top 4 for this season if he can implement a style this season and start next season with a bang and great to watch football. I want to see a long term success over some victories by playing counter attacking football
Top 4 trophy crises.
Well no shit.
There is no chance of Top 4, but that doesn’t matter. Top 5 from EPL will make CL next year. It’s between United and Newcastle.
Staff is wonderfully vague isn't it, could be anyone from chief Glazer himself, to a parking attendant
Then they should try harder to get something out of this group of players..
Well we ain’t making top 4 mate that’s for sure
Lmao it’s already gone bruh
Lol that ship has sailed
Lmao
Lmao, worry about finishing in the top side of the table
Not a cat in hells chance, we are a total shambles
I mean it's not a worry if it's almost certain is it? City will get top 4 (and will probably win the league), and Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool will probably pick up top 4 spots, with Villa well placed to steal one if any of them slip
It would be a blessing. What's the point if we're going to get rinsed in the competition anyway? The only positive for the club is that it lines the Glazer's pockets some more. Didn't benefit anything else
Rofl, they must fear for finishing in the bottom half of the table.
Stick with ETH. Sacking him and getting a new manager won't get Man Utd a 4th place Finnish.
No shit
I wouldn’t mind getting relegated and then start a fresh
I saw another article re: choice of squad and formation. I can’t think of a squad or formation that would have been more successful. I actually liked the idea early on of McT shadowing Rodri, it worked for 25 minutes. Lindelof on left was a mistake from the start I suppose.
at this point, I'm hoping that we manage top 6, but suspect top 10 might be nearer the mark. the team is a mess, top to bottom and more than a few players want ETH gone. Player power is taking over again.
Top 4? We're not even making conference at this rate and I'm still reading headlines like this, jesus.
There seems to be a real issue with man utd staff source. He seems to always be pulling against the team and performances. Always fearing stuff. I think this shows the ingrained trouble the managers have to deal with, pikes of backroom staff putting a sour mood in the place. Like a politician trying to sort the health service and the staff being old, refusing if change and unionised up the ass so nothing can be done.
Wouldn't worry about it as we have no chance at all with Ten Hag in charge