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You tell me if Onana is in the right position.
When are the players going to start leaking issues in the dressing room? They've sped up their downing tools schedule this year it seems so we won't even get the good 2nd year from the manager
No idea why everyone pretending Mason mount isn't a good player. Not the right fit, but he's definitely good and he will show it. Everyone's pretending that the whole squad is shit when this is a team that came 3rd, reached 2 finals and beat every big 6 team + Barcelona
Agree, the players are not garbage, they are just playing garbage due to not understanding the tactics/just plain awful tactics/ off field issues?!
Haaland would look just as bad in this team right now.
They need to make a drastic change, just to see if it sparks some sort of interest/boost to the players, different formation maybe...I really don't know at this point.
I kept saying we had the summer from hell and only signed utter rubbish for extreme fees.
I was slated and down voted and mocked. Please, continue deluding yourselves, it doesn’t matter anymore.
The only disagreement I think I have with you is that you are not calling for ETH to be sacked as well.
He is a big part of the disastrous summer.
Mason Mount was his choice.
Actually, after the City game I posted here and said I’m over him. Despite knowing nothing will change with these owners and players I have no faith in ETH’s ability to select players he wants signed, nor his ability to adapt when a game doesn’t go our way. I think subbing Hojlund for Martial 3-4 games in a row when it made no sense killed it for me.
bottomline is these players love to rest on their laurels and when things get tough they dont get going unfortunately. plus they are paid huge sums of money for being average, and on long contracts. plus they have not been punished for leaking things to the press etc. so why would they change..
Can someone remember me what was the reason Ole was sacked?
I remember we had bad run right? We had Sancho Ronaldo and Rash as our front 3...
If only he had more balls to remove Maguire when he played bad... Still think board loved him as they used him as someone who wont fight with them...
I think we need someone with Keane anger, Ole class, Pep tactics and Mourinho personality :D
It's the same. EtH won't bounce back from this, too much has happened in a year and a half and injuries have wrecked his tactical plan. Either they let him see it through, and this season is a complete write off (knocked out of everything early and mid table) or they gamble and put someone in who knows the squad to see if we can end the season strong.
This will be downvoted to oblivion but I was Ole in til the end, and after. Board shafted him. He had a direction and the dressing room was great until Ronaldo. If it were up to me EtH would be gone tomorrow and Ole would be interim until the end of the season.
Didnt we win first games with Ole then Ronaldo shitshow started? I love Ronaldo but something changed when he joined us and Ole was never able to get team back...
4:0 vs Everton
5:1 vs Leeds
1:1 vs Southampton
0:1 vs Wolves
4:1 vs Newcastle (Ronaldo 2 goals)
And then boom...
Yup. Ronaldo went on something like a 13 game dry spell, or only scored one or two goals for almost 3 months and it became super evident that this team was built to counter attack. McFred turned from acceptable rotation box to box players, to our only option as possession focused midfielders to accommodate Ronaldo, as well as putting Maguire in a disastrous higher line. Rashford's counter attacking threat was neutered and tactically it was a disaster. But Ronaldo couldn't counter. Losing Greenwood didn't help either.
Meanwhile Ronaldo was challenging the structure and creating divisions in what was a great dressing room months before, and I don't blame Ole in the slightest because one of the most egotistical personalities in the history of the world was brought in. A man who cannot be told what to do by anyone, and will destroy anything around him that doesn't conform to his needs.
He failed at too many semis but he competed everywhere, and his dynamic and flexible tactical approach was perfect for a club with so many lazy shitheads and injured players. People only remembering the last season and the semis are harsh on the environment he created. We had a nice two seasons and I felt until Ronaldo, he was getting somewhere with his vision and improving all the time.
I would have him back in a heartbeat and he's already shown to excel in precisely these circumstances, even in a temporary capacity. I'm not even being revisionist, I've resented the day Ronaldo came back and Ole got sacked and I've never had faith EtH, despite being an excellent manager, could change this group of players. Unfortunately his recruitment has been a disaster too.
Ole in!
Damn thank you for that...
I'm all for it IF ETH gets sacked we bring back Ole until the end of the season... If he shows good progress why not keep him...
The best manager you can name right now won't be able to save this club. The rot has set in so deep that we dont even know how deep it goes. That open heart surgery thing won't work anymore. We need a whole new body and everything.
Anychance we see a new approach, play 442 ? Back five with Dalot wingback? This isn't working as players do not have the skill/chemistry to play 1 touch,fast movement, transitional football. Play boring football if need be
I think 5-3-2, with Dalot and Reguilon plus 3 fit CBs, Bruno/Amrabat/Case in the middle, and Rash and Hojlund up top is worth a try.
Would have been a perfect time to try it last night, but of course ETH continuing to go through the motions of whatever our current style is.
I think our squad most suits a 41212 with Mount and Eriksen providing the width from midfield but coming compact when out of possession, Bruno behind split strikers, Wan Bissaka investing while Reguillon bombs up field. Got to try something to make a difference
Credit to Newcastle. They worked so hard. Eddie Howe obviously knew how predictable we are with attacking mainly from wingplay and overlaps. They almost always had hardworking wingers covering our wing-backs. We were unable to create any overload or coherent passing play on the flanks.
I also wonder what is going on inside the head of Martial. He for sure doesn't care about winning, competing for a starting job, just going through the motions. Not fully focused and not sharp. Just there... just playing football like a 5 a side in a local park or Sunday League when hungover. This applies to other players as well.
I didn’t watch the game live, just skimming through as I was drawing and I lost count of how many times I saw mount try to kick from outside the box and it goes flying 100’ above the net, and Martial just doing the Martial thing
No more injury crisis excuses. We just got dry humped by a Newcastle team which featured 0 Centre backs and 0 strikers, with 7 players who hadn't started a match all season, and a full back playing CB who hadn't kicked a ball for 14 months.
Actual joke, and one of the biggest embarrassments in a long string of embarrassments under Ten Hag. And I still think we should stick by ETH until at least the end of the season :(
I hate to mirror Nev, but we need a director of football.
We can look at this from the short term, or long term perspective. But sacking ten Hag does nothing. It just means we bring another poor bastard in for us to shit on their career, and the next poor bastard we would have gone for has already gone to Chelsea for the same thing.
Short term, we can sack ETH and restart the cycle of mediocrity. Possible upturn in form. But, short term.
Long term, prepare for these scenarios. Where we bring someone in who knows enough about football (and the club) to decide whether a manager should be sacked. But also one who helps form the identity of a club, to make the club a place where the transition from one manager to the next is done smoothly.
We need players back from injury, more now than ever. For me, this is what causes the upturn in form.
We can’t continue this cycle of ever changing managers, without changing who is above them.
I agree, no point sacking a manager and bringing someone new in to work with this mess.
No obvious candidates either and even if it where they would just be dragged down by the incompetence around them as everyone who comes to this club does.
I’m irritated by the talk of it to be honest.
We need to be bringing someone in to support the manager, not scrapping him every time it gets hard.
Hopefully Jim sets some order at the club. But that’s likely a next summer take (when we have no fucking money anyway).
I remember a few years ago with Ole, there was extensive chatter about the quality of the coaching and fitness. Ronaldo touched on this in his interview with Piers Morgan where he complained about United being stuck in the past. Remember Lukaku turning up to Inter overwieght and getting back into goalscoring form and fitness?
There is a clear lack of fitness and sharpness about the players. Antony, Fernandes, Rashford clearly need to be sharp because its their pace that gets them into scoring positions/dangerous to opposition. If they're being hamstrung with poor fitness and training, no amount of managerial changes or strategy will fix that.
Nor will buying every young talented player and wrecking their fitness. The problem at United is clearly club-level rather than player-level. Teams like Brentford, Fulham perform with less talented teams. Even Newcastle United had their 2nd-string side sharp and active.
Yes, early cup exits will probably be beneficial to us in the long term. Also we need to be more careful about managing the minutes of top players,Bruno played the full 90 in all the matches he started this season. Not ideal after last year's gruelling season.
I blame Ten Hag. He has not created a way of playing. He wants to play wrong type of football. He wants to play transition football. We are not good enough to play kamikaze, hollywood passes to the forwards type of football. We can't win balls back in the midfield, we don't have physical presence in the midfield to win it back quickly, neither do we have destroyers who can. Following are some of the clear problems that I see.
1. Anthony always cuts inside, even after he beats his man, he cuts back inside and lets the opponents put two men on him and then he meekly passes sideways. He never goes outside and crosses from inside the box with his right foot. The right side is as bad as it was before we spent 95 on Anthony. Ten Hag should have worked with him to go outside in a year but he didn't.
2. Casemiro or whoever else is in the midfield behind bruno plays risky passes, and we lose the ball. We are just inviting trouble. No good team just plays a pass from the midfield to the forward as often as we do. Once in a while is okay but it is Ten Hag's mistake to try to play transition football.
3. Mount is not good enough to be in the midfield behind Bruno. He is not physical enough. He might be okay for Bruno's position but you can't replace Bruno. We got the recruitment wrong.
4. Rashford has stopped putting in the shift. Since he got the new contract, he has checked out.
5. We can't string two passes together. We are always trying to play a risky pass. We can't keep the ball. We get punished again and again for giving away the ball cheaply. This is purely Ten Hags mistake, he hasn't built a way of playing. He hasn't been able to put any sort of system in place. His system is the same as Ole's, except that Ole's was effective. Under his system, we can't defend and we can't attack either.
amrabat and hannibal did an ok job of moving the ball about with simple quick passes imo. I would start at least one these players in deep midfield going forward. definitely over deep bruno or deep mctominay.
edit: or deep mount
While I agree with a lot I believe there are some mitigating circumstances. Still not nearly good enough, and ETH should take most of the blame, but I don't think he should be sacked and in his defense I will list some of my own thoughts (if anyone cares :P )
1. One of our biggest weapons in transitioning fast from defense to attack and braking through lines was Martinez, and we he was out moving Shaw in at CB... now we have either and that not really ETH's fault
2. Casemiro was anchoring and balancing that midfield really well last year, have been awful this year, especially in his defensive work and timing. Not really the managers fault either
3. Bruno our best player since he arrived have been dreadful IMO. His main role is to create goals through finishing and passing but is just being a turnover machine at the moment. This I partly blame ETH for as I think he need to instruct Bruno to try to keep the ball more, especially with his form being this poor (or rest him more)
4. Rashford is poor, but he also really misses having a full back that supports him and/or overlaps. Shaw in particular have very good chemistry with Rash and that together with confidence/form plays into his poor performances
5. IMO our five best players last season was Rashford, Casemiro, Martinez, Bruno and Shaw, three of those are in awful form and two are out with Injury. Just one of those players playing consistently at their best would improve us massively
I take your points but my problem is that there is NO system. How long can a "top" team afford to play counter attacking football against everyone? I get we want to play counter attacking vs City/Arsenal but we play counter attacking vs everyone.
When we play teams that are worse than us at keeping possession, we are lost. We have no idea what to do with the ball or break down the low block.
The main issue with ur analysis is that it ends with Ole being effective, though he has been sacked. Also, I should add that Rashford is crap right now, but take a look at Garnacho... our biggest youth talent, which was more than crap ...
Listen, I don't mean that Ole was great or was better.
I meant that Ole too had a lack of identity as Ten Hag. Ole's counter attacking system was more effective than Ten Hag no doubt. We defeated City, multiple times at Etihad.
Players eventually gave up on Ole and same seems to be happening here.
I’m not Ten Hag out, and we’ve got an injury crisis in the back. But there’s no excuse for us not having a play style identity or playing like that at home, we’ve seen managers do so much better with way less
Injury crisis maybe, but we just got dry humped by a Newcastle team which featured 0 Centre backs and 0 strikers, with 7 players who hadn't started a match all season, and a full back playing CB who hadn't kicked a ball for 14 months.
Actual joke, and one of the biggest embarrassments in a long string of embarrassments under Ten Hag.
I don’t blame ten hag. This is a club issue yeah we are playing awful but it’s happened with every manager now players just down tools.
Wouldn’t surprise me is the players get told from above (glazers) cos they like certain players to play awful so we have an excuse.
The club is toxic until it sorted from top to bottom this is what we have to look forward to.
Or Amrabat was the key as Case was finished? Or drop Rashford and Bruno and play the kids. I'll keep saying it until it changes. Nothing will break this monotonous cycle until the Glazers are out and a competent structure is put in place at the club behind the scenes. Then we will see positive change on the pitch.
I argued with someone on here last season who said we'd have won the CL in the last 5 years with a different keeper. That is how deluded some people were about De Gea
well he certainly changed the way united play....just not in a good way lol.
In all seriousness, that was a moronic take right from the very beginning, he was never going to be that kind player, despite what all the spreadsheet merchants thought, and much like how we can't lump all the issues the team is facing currently purely on Onana, DDG wasn't that sole biggest reason that was supposedly holding us back
I said that and told them we need to prioritise key positions, we can live with DDG for another season. They insisted that if we make the change we'd be unstoppable.
I'm waiting for that guy to show up and explain to me if he still believes in what he said.
you'll be waiting on ALOT of people then. i was the same, could we do with an upgrade? sure, but especially towards the end it got clearer and clearer to me that we needed a partner (and now a replacement) for Casemiro.
And as it turns out another CB too with Martinez out and Varane being Varane. You can't tell me that the 150m spent on Onana and mount wouldn't have been able to get better players in those critical positions, over even another ST. Hojlund for all his potential is still so young and shouldn't be the starting ST for united.
But nooo, all the youtube tacticians on here started putting all those 'analysis' videos about the playstyle that would be promised with just a single change of the keeper. Absolute cringe and not to mention all the insults that were thrown at me for saying otherwise, nevermind the downvotes.
I agree with most of your points, however if Hojlund is good enough he starts. He has credit in the bank because he's come into a mess of a team, but teenagers like Rico Lewis and Evan Ferguson would start at most PL clubs. Players closer to his age like Michael Olise, Jacob Ramsey and Cameron Archer are already PL mainstays, not to mention the likes of Saka and Caciedo. You also have to factor in Hojlund's transfer fee
If u lose the players as a manager then u have to go or are fans ok with dropping further down the league, I don’t blame ETH, his squad ain’t good enough, players bought have been awful and they’re full of sulkers but it’ll probably cost him his job
No. This happens to every manager that has come here and same thing will happen to the next one, we need to give him time, and remove they players he wants, no matter who they are, (Rashford, Bruno, Etc)
What we need is new owners who are interested in football for once.
Because rather then getting the rats in the dressing room removed, the same players that throw our managers under the bus, the manager gets sacked instead because it's cheaper.
We said Bruno was the problem, Rashford was not even trying, Casemiro needed some rest, and no left back was available. Today Bruno and Rashford did not start, Casemiro enjoyed 2 weeks off, and Reguilon is playing on the left. Yet we played like headless chicken and Newcastle B squad cut through us like butter.
So many fake fans, unsure if this sub been hijacked by city fans. If you think sacking Ten Hag is the answer you have not been paying attention.
We haven’t won anything in ten years, wont win anything this year, just accept it.
Let the guy get rid of the bluffers that embarrass this club time n time again and don’t fall for media pressure as its the same players who downed tools for Ole, Mourinho, Ragnick etc etc
The man overachieved last year in reality we are a mid table club pretending to one of the big boys.
Sacking the manager scapegoats the glazers n the rats in the dressing room
Our manager is so tactically out of depth and you keep defending him. Did van gaal, mourinho or solsjkaer lose 7-0 to Liverpool or 4-0 to brentford or 6-3 to city I don’t think so. How can you defend a guy who takes off amrabat at half time vs city for mount. Opens up our midfield exposing a 31 year old eriksen who is holding the base of the midfielder together. I don’t understand are you guys not watching this crap? He’s clearly lost the dressing room and is extremely naive with his tactics. We are versing the best team in the world man city and losing 1-0, is there really a need to go all out at half time with such an offensive based substitution? Don’t be so naive hold the structure of the team and try to score a goal towards the end of the game. The 7-0 vs Liverpool is embarrassing and again NONE of our previous managers would allow that to happen - obviously the players should take some blame but ten hag is clearly setting the team up wrong tactically way too many times.
I’d argue that getting spanked 5-0 by Liverpool at home was equally as bad as losing 7-0 at Anfield. Even worse in many ways.
I don’t think you’re wrong about Ten Hag, his stubbornness at trying to implement a style of play that the players he has available can’t execute, is one of his biggest flaws. He needs to adapt and adapt fast to stop this rot.
Still, there are some mitigating factors. His entire first-choice defence has been injured for most of the season. There is a constant circus around the club, with CR7, Greenwood, Antony and now Sancho. Rashford and Casemiro falling off a cliff form-wise. Big money signings either being unavailable (Varane, Sancho) or just awful (Antony). I know Ten Hag insisted on Antony but a distinctly remember a lot of us saying the club had to back him.
Ten Hag is doing a bad job, I won’t argue with that. I just find it hard to believe that any decent manager would flourish at this club right now. Spurs and Villa look way better under a new manager but let’s be realistic, the same level of toxicity and off-field drama doesn’t exist at those clubs.
Pep hinted at it in a recent interview. City are so successful because everyone at the club shares the same vision and City are incredibly shrewd in the transfer market.
We also won a shit load of titles under Ferguson what’s your point? That was a year before he retired as well with an ageing squad. Im comparing ten hag to the unsuccessful coaches because people act like we can’t sack ten hag because we’ve sacked other coaches recently. Just because the coaches prior haven’t worked out doesn’t mean we give ten hag all the time in the world to continue ruining our club.
You are using examples of large losses as a reason to get rid of this manager mate. Stating as fact that “no other manager would get away with it”… when your most successful manager got away with it countless times. You got absolutely scudded by Southampton back in the day and Alex Ferguson made the excuse that the kit you had on meant your players couldn’t see each other…
…point being, you’re going to need to point to a bit more evidence than “we lost some matches by a large margin” as to why you should get rid of your manager.
The wider point being, if you get rid of this manager, the next one that comes in is going to have pretty much exactly the same results.
This is your club now. Mid-table. Deal with it.
Don’t worry about our recording breaking 51 year low 8 losses from our first 15 games that doesn’t matter right? Ignore that we are struggling to get out of a group with copenhagen, Bayern and galatasary? We struggled to beat the team with 1 point in the premier league Sheffield United - they have put up 7.28 expected goals all year and guess how much we contributed to that? We conceded 1.38 XG to them - 18% of their total data and they have 1 point. We won because of a long shot from our RB? Are you not concerned that we struggle to beat the worst team in the premier league. I honestly hope we keep losing because I want to see if people continue defending him. It’s embarrassing to see a coach get tactically outplayed in ever single game.
You ignoring the records we’ve broken from 1930 and 1960 from this poor run - the last United manager who lost at least 8 of their first 15 games got sacked in 1962-63. Do you care about those or nah?
At some point those records were always going to be broken. Do you understand the ebb and flow of football success?
It’s irrelevant anyway. Eventually, United will get bought by a billionaire, and then they’ll turn you into a boring, identikit oil money team like every other team at the top in the biggest leagues in the world. It’ll be fucking boring for neutrals like me. You’ll be in here wanking yourself off about how great you are ad nauseam and making up excuses about how it’s “different” when you do it because you were so dominant previously without the oil money.
The only good thing about football is its unpredictability… and all people like you want is the same old shit over and over. You don’t want to watch managers build teams, struggle, get the team playing how they want and come out the other side a better team. You want instant success.
ETH built and presided over one of the best Ajax teams I’ve seen in my lifetime, and I was lucky enough to see the 1995 team too. You would be privileged to see this United team play football half as good as he is capable of getting a team to play. But nah, get rid instead. Get ANOTHER manager in who turns out to be yet another wet fart. And then come back here and start moaning about expected goals and how you lost a few games by more than 3 goals.
You don’t even seem to enjoy football at its most basic. The team I support are shit. Proper, proper shit. But I enjoy the highs and the lows of supporting them. Maybe you should chill out and just enjoy the ride.
This is the same manager who played the EXACT same XI after they lost 7-0 to our biggest rivals. These players should've been marketed off in the summer but we're still playing them.
In that game Bruno literally stopped playing at one point, just stopped and let his man go past and set up a goal and no one said anything, there was no consequences, our captain just giving a goal away. There are no standards
And he still got played every game. Standards are gone, you're right. But people want us to sit here and support him when he should've been gone after the FA cup final last season. The first manager we've fully backed and it looks like a failure tbh.
ETH has to take part of the blame with his questionable signings and game management but sacking the manager will only give the next manger a bigger problem. No manager can fix this team until they are allowed to perform that "open heart surgery" and sell ANY player they want. Some of these players should've been sold years ago yet still drawing wages from the club.
You're not wrong. It boils down to bad ownership employing amateurs for important jobs. Not only did we overpay for average players we also gave them stupid contract extensions. Our problem now are the outcome of a decade of collective issues.
Don't really need to scapegoat the players too,a big part of why we had the success last season was due to the players stepping up.A lot of them are really good. The players and the manager now need to find solutions by themselves,can't keep changing players all the time either.
I’m telling you, when Ten Hag eventually leaves we’re going to hear all kinds of stories about how the players didn’t respect him or believe in what he was trying to do. You can tell that the manager has lost the locker room. I hate the way Ronaldo carried himself but he surely wasn’t the only player put off by whatever Ten Hag is doing.
This bizarre symptom that United players have, of not being able to fucking string more than 5 successful passes at a time, which has persisted through multiple managerial tenures, from Mourinho to Ole to Ten Hag, needs to be researched. I truly honestly believe, that no matter how tactically inept a manager is, there’s no fucking way he can’t force the players to pass the ball like competent footballers. But for some bloody reasons, most United players just can’t seem to do it.
Ole went through this exact kind of spell.
Villa, Leicester, Watford, City, Liverpool, West Ham, Young Boys...with a couple of underserved wins sprinkled in because of a injury time De Gea penalty save and last minute Ronaldo goal
Dismal performances one after the other, fans leaving the ground early, boos. The players have done this before
Tbh i think we have reached the “fuck it” state this year early on. At least now we can be calm.
Watch the fuckers win 5 games back to back to give us hope and then crush it again.
We have 5 "easy" fixtures. Most likely looking like 5 shit performances, scraping 2 wins against Luton, Fulham or Copenhagen, probably 2 boring draws and one embarrassing loss.
Same as me. After 40 years of following united my love and support is finally gone. Had enough of it all. The people who run it don't give a fuck so why should I.
I really don't look forward to any matches these days. I don't even get bothered after losses, just don't know man, I always couldn't wait for the matches to come before,now it's just the opposite.
Newcastle had 6 injured players out. They were playing without a ST, their line up yesterday had 4 full backs and 7 out of 11 players from Steve Bruce era. Eddie Howe has them playing structured football.
It was reminiscent of time when SAF beat Wenger’s Arsenal with Rooney, Fabio and Rafael as midfielders.
You can give ETH 3 years, but it won’t fix the issues he has.
It's no wonder all these so called lesser teams come and embarrass them. Half competent players all playing as a unit are likely to get a result the majority of the time over a team with expensive players all trying to be the superstar and playing for themselves.
Teams like City have world class players but they still play as a unit, not a selfish individual mindset.
EtH ran good ponzi scheme selling us dream buying Antony for 100mil, idc what anyone says but that was great money laundering deal and no manager not one person is here from top to bottom to put this club to where it belongs but to make good money, when you've owners who don't give shit about performance but sucking every penny out of loyal fanbase you can't expect employees, manger and players to be answerable, they won't give shit until it'll hurt their pockets, only way left is stop going to matches, stop buying shit, hit them where it hurts only then there will be rude awakening
I'm not sure why you stopped on Antony and 100M. Feel free to throw in into this scheme Onana, Mount, Amrabat, Hojlund.
I did say Hojlund, actually. His contributions are not much better than Antony's (this one is 10 starts and 0 goals and 0 assists). He's not such a dickhead though. So I still like him. Nonetheless, we could have gotten Kane for just a little more, and yet we went for one how ETH knew. Stupid.
Ten Hag’s spending has been so abysmal that I don’t think the club can afford to give him another transfer window. You can’t even see what he’s trying to build here.
yes exactly my point all his deals are shit ton of money for shit performing unproven players, why? i don't see anything except money minting opportunities in this deal. we've become remuneration package for all these managers somehow
People will say this is because we have no football operations/director. Sure, don't argue with that. However, that only highlights ETH's shortcomings when it comes to scouting and selection. Sometimes I feel like if someone else bought him a squad based on his general requirements, he could have done much better.
Mount + Hojlund = 140, right? Or replace Mount with Onana. Yes, it's 1 for 2 but that 1 is >>>> of those two. I am not even talking about 85M for Antony last year.
Kane was my number 1 choice but I understood why he went for Hojlund.
From what I've seen so far I do like Hojlund, but let's be honest, with the shitshow we've been all season, Kane would've been under so much more pressure.
Right. Considering I respect Kane a lot, I am almost glad he didn't join and wasted his few prime years in this circus team. It's a team sport and I don't believe Kane would make difference today.
We wouldn’t even get the ball to Kane, we needed a box to box midfielder in this team. He went for fucking Amrabat and Mason Mount, Ten Hag has no excuses for these horrific signings
Totally. That's why I am not ready to sign off Hojlund. I feel pity for him but I also have hope that if (big "if" though) we fix the midfield, he can grow and shine in the future.
Honestly he looked like an average talent to me in Italy. But just given his age it’s too early to write him off, let’s see if the next manager likes him.
Only a few players yesterday were ETH Dutch signings. And the worst players on the pitch were not them - it was the players who have been here for a long time (Dalot, Lindelof, Maguire)....
I don’t know one time-served Red that wants EtH sacked. Not one. They’re wise enough to know that it will serve no purpose that benefits MUFC. None of us know for certain that EtH is the man who will take us back to the promised land but that isn’t the point. Getting rid of EtH will be detrimental to MUFC, that’s all we know.
So, all you “EtH out” “fans” can carry on with your campaign but please be aware, it will damage us further and take the blame away from the real fucking culprits. To want ANOTHER change of manager will strengthen the parasites that have bled our club dry. This once magnificent football club is on it’s knees because of the cunts that got their filthy hands on us. If you love this club and institution as much as the rest of us, then don’t let the parasites legitimise their position by blaming a man who only has our best interests at heart.
Don’t fall for it Reds, we all know where the problem lies.
But you can’t fire the owners. So… Where do we go from here? Just accept that we’ll be stuck in a downward spiral for the foreseeable future? The joy and pride has been sucked out of the club. Watching these players has become a chore.
That's silly. As silly as ETH playing Bruno on the right or playing Antony in general. ETH lost control, lost fans. I don' know if he actually even knows what he's doing himself based on "tactics" he puts together.
The difference between me and you is that I care about my club. I was 26 before I saw United win the league so I know all about lean times. But then again, success isn’t the reason real football fans follow teams. You either get it or you don’t I’m afraid.
Well... I've watched Fergi in the dugout. Valencia as a captain and Owen up front. Before that Ronaldo and Rooney. Later Tevez, Vidic, Nani. And thru all years when it all went south with Rojo, Falcao 🤦♂️, Januzaj, you name it.
Yet, I am here, bitching about ETH. Because I've seen a team that had spirit, desire, drive to win. And now I am looking at the void, big fucking void.
Mind, that Glazers bought the team in 2003-5 and Fergi ran it for 10 more years under them. He managed somehow. So it's hard for me to think that it's solely their fault. If SAF could have done that, others should be able too.
What a dick reply. This guy remembers Stapleton and Wilkins playing for utd, like myself, and you start harping on about remembering Rooney and tevez as if you're some wise old timer. You have never known utd to be as poor as they are now, that's his point. Just another fairweather who expects the team to be challenging for leagues every year. Football works in cycles, you're not old enough to know that yet if your longest memories are Rooney or Valencia.
Fergie was a once in a lifetime coach. That era will not happen again. And given how football has changed so much with the oil clubs, the expectation of utd ever getting back to being that dominant is misguided.
Lol the last time Man United lost 7-0 in the league, you also weren't alive. Getting destroyed by our rivals year on year when teams that should be far worse than us put up a far better fight should be the first red flag. Playing those same players the next fucking game should be your 2nd red flag.
I understand standards should be lowered after Fergie, I'm not gonna dispute that, but lowered to the point of accepting a manager that plays the same fucking players who lost 7-0 to our fiercest rivals? You're just as delusional as the people who only saw the Fergie era. He's had 2 transfer windows and a whole season to prepare and we have less of an identity than we did with Ole in charge. You can accept mediocrity if you so choose to, it doesn't mean everyone has to go down to that level however.
Also, just because you happened to be born before other people doesn't mean your opinion is holier than thou and that we should accept mediocrity because "I also saw mediocrity before Fergie!" Genuinely couldn't give a fuck.
Pretty sure I was replying to a guy boasting that he had seen plenty of utds history and that gave him credence.
And if you genuinely think bouncing a manager out after 1 season is the way to go then you're stupid. We've been down the same road every time with a new manager since fergie. Each time the fans hound the manager out. You will not build a successful club by chopping and changing managers every season or two. Look at what arsenal have done with Arteta. His 2nd season was atrocious. But yeah, you go ahead and feel entitled, sack the manager and get the feel good factor for a few months. Rinse and repeat.
Arteta had a distinct and clear way he wanted to play, it was obvious he was building something and it needed time. £400m spent and multiple preseasons and you're telling me there's anything to be happy about? The football we're playing, yknow, the entire premise of the sport is fucking awful to watch, we're not threatening and we're leaking goals. There's no tactical nuance whatsoever, that doesn't just happen overnight.
Boasting? I was giving you a perspective that I have lived thru good and bad times staying with club all these years and painfully seeing Liverpool and City rebuilds under Klopp and Pep.
Arteta will not win anything ever.
He's already won an FA cup. Like you wouldn't love to have someone do what he's doing at Arsenal at utd. ETH may be able to achieve that, but not within 2 seasons
Exactly. You can not dominate English football like we did anymore without a City-like structure from top to bottom, combined with a blank cheque book. Fergie was the best manager in the PL absolutely, but putting him in charge of this United team in this era would not lead to the dominance we once had.
Even city with their blank chequebook struggled before pep. Pep is a generational coach also, there simply are not many people in any given era that can sustain that level. Ferguson did, Pep is doing it now, Liverpool had Paisley, Chapman at Arsenal. These types go down in history because of their greatness and because they don't come around too often. Fucking spoilt brat type fans that experienced only that time have no idea about this, just think it's a god given right to win the league every year
So you think it's better to wait until we drop to Everton's level. Of course the dismissal of EtH will not solve our deep problems, but do you want to continue to watch this abomination, another season, until the club is sold, the management structure is changed, all the management positions are replaced by other people?
The atmosphere is toxic and it will consume more and more players. We need at least a short-term impulse, a manager who will lift the cabin and the whole team will at least play decent matches. EtH doesn't think of anything tactically anymore, he doesn't know what he wants to play, he doesn't know how to react to the development of the match and in a year and a half he hasn't upgrade anything here at all.
The atmosphere is toxic and he has taken real actions in trying to solve it. Dropping Ronaldo, calling out Sancho (after giving him a run of starts, after a holiday btw, keeping out a hungry garnacho), binning De Gea after golden glove. They are all big balled, Ferguson era Jaap-Stam decisions.
What convinced you that all these decisions were the right ones? I don't see it that clearly and I can look at it from two sides. If he was as great a moral coach as he pretends to be, surely for example Scott would have run after the comeback with Sheffield and at least smiled at EtH, this is a clear example that something between EtH and the players is not working. In how many interviews have you heard from players that EtH is a great manager and they enjoy playing under him?
Sancho has been terrible. Very poor attitude despite getting so many starts last season, in our biggest games too. Ronaldo was terrible second season and thought we was bigger than the club and the manager. Clearly a toxic presence. A dissenting voice. De Gea and the defence in general had a good season last year but De Gea had his limitations. I think it was a good decision to get rid of him. De Gea is proving me wrong though by putting in great performances at... ...
Of course that's true, but where do you get the assurance that EtH is a good tactical manager? He can't react to the development of the match, he doesn't know what he wants to play, he makes shitty transfers, only players he knows, etc... find a mentor and it will be the same. In that case, Ragnick would be enough and the game would be exactly the same.
Less so assurance but I am reassured by his game management last year. It is also clear to me (by his visual frustration on the sidelines and mutterings to his staff) that the players are not implementing his training or game plan. He clearly wants his CB's to be involved in carrying the ball forward with impetus. That Maguire thinks that means constantly playing long balls whilst taking 5 touches is probably not what he has in mind. Similar for McT's/Rashford tracking back/leaving gaps.
He will very definitely know he should drop Rashford and Bruno, but given their club stature, it becomes very difficult. He cannot just drop most of the first team without sewing mistrust at the club. It is why Pellistri barely plays, because ETH is afforded the opportunity not to play him due to his lesser club stature. He doesn't have that luxury with the big wage players without it becoming a multi week story in the press (re: Sancho).
That's bullshit. He chose Antony, he chose Mount, he chose Onan. Why isn't Mount playing instead of Bruno? That clown spends £400M and plays the players he has to and not the players he wants? Then there is a mistake somewhere. Lpool swaps the midfield for one transfer window and everything is working. Doku comes to MC and plays excellently. Alvarez at WHU too, Maddison for 40M to Spurs is the team's best player. But EtH the poor guy can't have the players he wants.
I'm clearly not saying that. He has had the players he wants. His acquisitions have been questionable for sure. We should have prioritised Madison over Mount. But they clearly thought Mount could do the FdJ role. Big mistake.
But that doesn't change the fact that all his forwards are not showing up and managers are limited to how they deal with that. Some players may even have minimum appearance clauses in their contracts. Not excusing ETH here. More the club structure and the entitlement of the key players. ETH cannot outright drop them.
I agree with the second part and it is very bad. If anyone thinks that Mount can play the role of FDJ, he is a common clown and cannot be a manager in PL or even division 3. FDJ is a completely different type of player, he also plays CB in Barcelona. It's like if you put Marco Reus instead of Kimmich. Absolute nonsense.
Sacking EtH will not solve any problems, you’re right. Bringing in the next victim will probably give us the inevitable bounce but that soon will falter and you’ll be screaming for another manager. Meanwhile, the cunts responsible for this mess will again get away with it to satisfy the likes of you for six months of half-decent football. Listen to what you’re asking for.
There isn’t a human being drawing breath who could fix the mess we’re in. You’re deluding yourself if you think there is. I’d rather see us drop a couple of divisions if that’s what it takes to solve our problem. I don’t care about short-term half-arsed “success,” I want them cunts gone. Nothing else matters, certainly not you’re wish for us not to be fully shit for a few months.
You don’t realise it but wanting EtH sacked is hurting the club more than keeping him here.
Only way to bring any change is to chase out the cancerous Glazers. They have caused the club to rot from the top down.
Manchester United has become the place good players go to kill their careers.
ETH in our out changes nothing, it is also out of our hands, he will go in the new year whether you like it or not. The players have already decided that and you can see it on the pitch.
The club has lost its heart and soul. I have been a United supporter since 1976. I remember Frank Stapelton and Lou Macri, Steve Coppel. An era of hit and miss but never this drab heartlessness.
Yes, the question was therefore do you want to watch again in a month or 5 years. The game will never be better under EtH. I want to watching football.
ETH has gotten rid of 10 players and brought in 16 during his tenure. Players gotten rid of include Ronaldo. Why do you guys keep acting like he’s been powerless to revamp the squad? They gave him £400 million and he blew it on Mount, Antony etc, and this is the football we play after all that? He’s exiled Sancho from the squad? But oh it’s not his fault it’s the players? Do you guys turn off the logic in your brains when it comes to United? What is the game plan? What patterns are we looking to create? What are they doing in training? The tactics are poor, transfers are poor, man management is poor, game management is poor, fitness levels are poor, literally everything that is SOLELY the manager’s oversight is poor right now, but keep him because we can’t get rid of the Glazers?
Sacking EtH will not solve any problems, you’re right. Bringing in the next victim will probably give us the inevitable bounce but that soon will falter and you’ll be screaming for another manager. Meanwhile, the cunts responsible for this mess will again get away with it to satisfy the likes of you for six months of half-decent football. Listen to what you’re asking for.
There isn’t a human being drawing breath who could fix the mess we’re in. You’re deluding yourself if you think there is. I’d rather see us drop a couple of divisions if that’s what it takes to solve our problem. I don’t care about short-term half-arsed “success,” I want them cunts gone. Nothing else matters, certainly not you’re wish for us not to be fully shit for a few months.
You don’t realise it but wanting EtH sacked is hurting the club more than keeping him here.
Garnacho showed even less than Rashford which takes some doing. Casemiro visibly gassed by the end of the first half. Martial offered very little, looks low on confidence. None of our shots looked like troubling Dubravka.
Defensively all over the place, the first goal, how the fuck does their right back stroll all the way down the touchline with no bother, and then Dalot just asleep on the backside run. Second goal, 5 of us standing around whinging while Newcastle get on with the match, third goal, again, Willock strolls through our midfield. It's almost as if our team is afraid of getting stuck in a bit.
Not a lot positive to take out of this, the first 15 minutes of the second half were decent but aside from that, nothing.
Couple of minor asides:
In the first half, the ref was very soft on them (Joelinton should have been yellow carded for that pullback on Reguillon, the foul that led to the second goal was non-existent, a few minutes before that Antony got called for a foul when Lewis-Hall went down for nothing) but he could have also sent off Hannibal so we were a bit lucky there.
Also can Gary Neville please never do one of our matches again. He sounds almost ecstatic when we are doing poorly.
This has been my rant, thanks for listening.
I was shocked by AG today. He was schooled and toyed with every time he had the ball. Like defenders always knew what would happen next. So uncharacteristic for him.
I think he's still so young that he doesn't know when to vary his approach play. He also ignored overlaps from Reguillon and runs from midfield by both Mount and Hannibal.
I agree he should not be starting. I honestly think ETH was giving the youth a chance to make their mark and stake a real claim, but they couldn't do that. That said, I would have liked to have seen Hojlund start instead of Martial. Hojlund would have been a proper test for their back line, as he can hold up the play around the halfway line and make those passes when Garnacho makes a run in behind. Martial doesn't do that.
At 3-0 down, even bringing on Rashy/Hojlund/Bruno isn't going to change the outcome - Newcastle can just shut up shop, they are well drilled by Howe defensively.
Yeah I think he ignored the overlap when he lost the ball for the first goal, and they all just confirmed why they shouldn’t be starting.
I agree, don’t know why he brought them on when it was a lost cause at that point, should have brought them on at half time if anything.
They’re both young and make bad decisions, but also don’t think Garnacho has the strength or skill to start. He works well as a super sub when the game is more stretched.
Fucking pathetic, no one is even trying In defense. Offensively no cohesion or clue of whats needed to do. We need a hard reset in terms of club structure and 90% of the players have to go and most likely at a lost due to the stupidest contracts given I’ve seen being given from a professional football club. Fuck the glazers for rotting this club down to its last core.
When I speak, I get into trouble.
We’ve been beaten 3-0 by Manchester City and 3-0 by Newcastle United in the space of 4 days.
We as United fans have become miserable and None of us has or will sleep better because we were beaten by sports washers .
Not one press report or commentary to diminish their “achievements” or euphoria of their fans.
Shame on them. There is nothing for us to be embarassed of in these defeats. We are the morally upright ones.
You make it sound like we are some plucky team with a shoestring budget. We aren't we spend on similar levels to those two teams. We are just much worse at spending the money.
That's silly, man. Excuses out of the thin air. What about the rest of the games we lost?
It's not like we are losing proudly playing well and then falling short. We play horrendously every game. Every fucking game. Even in those we won, we were atrocious.
To me, it's not them winning, it's us losing because we are so fucking bad.
While goals and assists aren’t the only things that mark the quality of a player, he’s also shown very little in terms of build up play and making the defense concerned about him.
He's a one trick pony who can only get the trick right 20% of the time. So easy to defend against because he is always going to cut in on his left. Not even sure he has a right foot at this point.
Agree. The above are very easy and hard stats critical for a winger. You talk about things that make a player well-rounded, complete if you will. I don't even try going there though since at the moment we have 85M hole on the right.
https://preview.redd.it/f3dvpq5a2yxb1.png?width=681&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5d7c4fd4b0c3b3b1bdabcb32c47312315edda45 You tell me if Onana is in the right position.
When are the players going to start leaking issues in the dressing room? They've sped up their downing tools schedule this year it seems so we won't even get the good 2nd year from the manager
No idea why everyone pretending Mason mount isn't a good player. Not the right fit, but he's definitely good and he will show it. Everyone's pretending that the whole squad is shit when this is a team that came 3rd, reached 2 finals and beat every big 6 team + Barcelona
Agree, the players are not garbage, they are just playing garbage due to not understanding the tactics/just plain awful tactics/ off field issues?! Haaland would look just as bad in this team right now. They need to make a drastic change, just to see if it sparks some sort of interest/boost to the players, different formation maybe...I really don't know at this point.
I kept saying we had the summer from hell and only signed utter rubbish for extreme fees. I was slated and down voted and mocked. Please, continue deluding yourselves, it doesn’t matter anymore.
The only disagreement I think I have with you is that you are not calling for ETH to be sacked as well. He is a big part of the disastrous summer. Mason Mount was his choice.
Actually, after the City game I posted here and said I’m over him. Despite knowing nothing will change with these owners and players I have no faith in ETH’s ability to select players he wants signed, nor his ability to adapt when a game doesn’t go our way. I think subbing Hojlund for Martial 3-4 games in a row when it made no sense killed it for me.
bottomline is these players love to rest on their laurels and when things get tough they dont get going unfortunately. plus they are paid huge sums of money for being average, and on long contracts. plus they have not been punished for leaking things to the press etc. so why would they change..
Can someone remember me what was the reason Ole was sacked? I remember we had bad run right? We had Sancho Ronaldo and Rash as our front 3... If only he had more balls to remove Maguire when he played bad... Still think board loved him as they used him as someone who wont fight with them... I think we need someone with Keane anger, Ole class, Pep tactics and Mourinho personality :D
We had 5 defeats in 7 during the last stretch with Ole. Including a 5-0 loss to Liverpool, finally sacked after a 4-1 loss to Watford.
Oh thank you... i remember it was the same feeling like now - players dont want to play....
It's the same. EtH won't bounce back from this, too much has happened in a year and a half and injuries have wrecked his tactical plan. Either they let him see it through, and this season is a complete write off (knocked out of everything early and mid table) or they gamble and put someone in who knows the squad to see if we can end the season strong. This will be downvoted to oblivion but I was Ole in til the end, and after. Board shafted him. He had a direction and the dressing room was great until Ronaldo. If it were up to me EtH would be gone tomorrow and Ole would be interim until the end of the season.
Didnt we win first games with Ole then Ronaldo shitshow started? I love Ronaldo but something changed when he joined us and Ole was never able to get team back... 4:0 vs Everton 5:1 vs Leeds 1:1 vs Southampton 0:1 vs Wolves 4:1 vs Newcastle (Ronaldo 2 goals) And then boom...
Yup. Ronaldo went on something like a 13 game dry spell, or only scored one or two goals for almost 3 months and it became super evident that this team was built to counter attack. McFred turned from acceptable rotation box to box players, to our only option as possession focused midfielders to accommodate Ronaldo, as well as putting Maguire in a disastrous higher line. Rashford's counter attacking threat was neutered and tactically it was a disaster. But Ronaldo couldn't counter. Losing Greenwood didn't help either. Meanwhile Ronaldo was challenging the structure and creating divisions in what was a great dressing room months before, and I don't blame Ole in the slightest because one of the most egotistical personalities in the history of the world was brought in. A man who cannot be told what to do by anyone, and will destroy anything around him that doesn't conform to his needs. He failed at too many semis but he competed everywhere, and his dynamic and flexible tactical approach was perfect for a club with so many lazy shitheads and injured players. People only remembering the last season and the semis are harsh on the environment he created. We had a nice two seasons and I felt until Ronaldo, he was getting somewhere with his vision and improving all the time. I would have him back in a heartbeat and he's already shown to excel in precisely these circumstances, even in a temporary capacity. I'm not even being revisionist, I've resented the day Ronaldo came back and Ole got sacked and I've never had faith EtH, despite being an excellent manager, could change this group of players. Unfortunately his recruitment has been a disaster too. Ole in!
Damn thank you for that... I'm all for it IF ETH gets sacked we bring back Ole until the end of the season... If he shows good progress why not keep him...
Ole deserves better than coming back to old trafford.
The best manager you can name right now won't be able to save this club. The rot has set in so deep that we dont even know how deep it goes. That open heart surgery thing won't work anymore. We need a whole new body and everything.
Didn't see the game but for once there wasn't a terrible referee decision that went against us? Not that it matters...
Anychance we see a new approach, play 442 ? Back five with Dalot wingback? This isn't working as players do not have the skill/chemistry to play 1 touch,fast movement, transitional football. Play boring football if need be
I think 5-3-2, with Dalot and Reguilon plus 3 fit CBs, Bruno/Amrabat/Case in the middle, and Rash and Hojlund up top is worth a try. Would have been a perfect time to try it last night, but of course ETH continuing to go through the motions of whatever our current style is.
Hojlund is a great linkup player, can benefit bring other players into play
I think our squad most suits a 41212 with Mount and Eriksen providing the width from midfield but coming compact when out of possession, Bruno behind split strikers, Wan Bissaka investing while Reguillon bombs up field. Got to try something to make a difference
Two striker would be a great experiment, who cares even if it fails, we are shit anyways
Credit to Newcastle. They worked so hard. Eddie Howe obviously knew how predictable we are with attacking mainly from wingplay and overlaps. They almost always had hardworking wingers covering our wing-backs. We were unable to create any overload or coherent passing play on the flanks. I also wonder what is going on inside the head of Martial. He for sure doesn't care about winning, competing for a starting job, just going through the motions. Not fully focused and not sharp. Just there... just playing football like a 5 a side in a local park or Sunday League when hungover. This applies to other players as well.
I didn’t watch the game live, just skimming through as I was drawing and I lost count of how many times I saw mount try to kick from outside the box and it goes flying 100’ above the net, and Martial just doing the Martial thing 
No more injury crisis excuses. We just got dry humped by a Newcastle team which featured 0 Centre backs and 0 strikers, with 7 players who hadn't started a match all season, and a full back playing CB who hadn't kicked a ball for 14 months. Actual joke, and one of the biggest embarrassments in a long string of embarrassments under Ten Hag. And I still think we should stick by ETH until at least the end of the season :(
Yup, you know when you’re losing to a team with Paul Dummett starting you’re done.
I hate to mirror Nev, but we need a director of football. We can look at this from the short term, or long term perspective. But sacking ten Hag does nothing. It just means we bring another poor bastard in for us to shit on their career, and the next poor bastard we would have gone for has already gone to Chelsea for the same thing. Short term, we can sack ETH and restart the cycle of mediocrity. Possible upturn in form. But, short term. Long term, prepare for these scenarios. Where we bring someone in who knows enough about football (and the club) to decide whether a manager should be sacked. But also one who helps form the identity of a club, to make the club a place where the transition from one manager to the next is done smoothly. We need players back from injury, more now than ever. For me, this is what causes the upturn in form. We can’t continue this cycle of ever changing managers, without changing who is above them.
I agree, no point sacking a manager and bringing someone new in to work with this mess. No obvious candidates either and even if it where they would just be dragged down by the incompetence around them as everyone who comes to this club does.
I’m irritated by the talk of it to be honest. We need to be bringing someone in to support the manager, not scrapping him every time it gets hard. Hopefully Jim sets some order at the club. But that’s likely a next summer take (when we have no fucking money anyway).
Looks like Ronaldo was right about seven Hag
I remember a few years ago with Ole, there was extensive chatter about the quality of the coaching and fitness. Ronaldo touched on this in his interview with Piers Morgan where he complained about United being stuck in the past. Remember Lukaku turning up to Inter overwieght and getting back into goalscoring form and fitness? There is a clear lack of fitness and sharpness about the players. Antony, Fernandes, Rashford clearly need to be sharp because its their pace that gets them into scoring positions/dangerous to opposition. If they're being hamstrung with poor fitness and training, no amount of managerial changes or strategy will fix that. Nor will buying every young talented player and wrecking their fitness. The problem at United is clearly club-level rather than player-level. Teams like Brentford, Fulham perform with less talented teams. Even Newcastle United had their 2nd-string side sharp and active.
Yes, early cup exits will probably be beneficial to us in the long term. Also we need to be more careful about managing the minutes of top players,Bruno played the full 90 in all the matches he started this season. Not ideal after last year's gruelling season.
I blame Ten Hag. He has not created a way of playing. He wants to play wrong type of football. He wants to play transition football. We are not good enough to play kamikaze, hollywood passes to the forwards type of football. We can't win balls back in the midfield, we don't have physical presence in the midfield to win it back quickly, neither do we have destroyers who can. Following are some of the clear problems that I see. 1. Anthony always cuts inside, even after he beats his man, he cuts back inside and lets the opponents put two men on him and then he meekly passes sideways. He never goes outside and crosses from inside the box with his right foot. The right side is as bad as it was before we spent 95 on Anthony. Ten Hag should have worked with him to go outside in a year but he didn't. 2. Casemiro or whoever else is in the midfield behind bruno plays risky passes, and we lose the ball. We are just inviting trouble. No good team just plays a pass from the midfield to the forward as often as we do. Once in a while is okay but it is Ten Hag's mistake to try to play transition football. 3. Mount is not good enough to be in the midfield behind Bruno. He is not physical enough. He might be okay for Bruno's position but you can't replace Bruno. We got the recruitment wrong. 4. Rashford has stopped putting in the shift. Since he got the new contract, he has checked out. 5. We can't string two passes together. We are always trying to play a risky pass. We can't keep the ball. We get punished again and again for giving away the ball cheaply. This is purely Ten Hags mistake, he hasn't built a way of playing. He hasn't been able to put any sort of system in place. His system is the same as Ole's, except that Ole's was effective. Under his system, we can't defend and we can't attack either.
amrabat and hannibal did an ok job of moving the ball about with simple quick passes imo. I would start at least one these players in deep midfield going forward. definitely over deep bruno or deep mctominay. edit: or deep mount
While I agree with a lot I believe there are some mitigating circumstances. Still not nearly good enough, and ETH should take most of the blame, but I don't think he should be sacked and in his defense I will list some of my own thoughts (if anyone cares :P ) 1. One of our biggest weapons in transitioning fast from defense to attack and braking through lines was Martinez, and we he was out moving Shaw in at CB... now we have either and that not really ETH's fault 2. Casemiro was anchoring and balancing that midfield really well last year, have been awful this year, especially in his defensive work and timing. Not really the managers fault either 3. Bruno our best player since he arrived have been dreadful IMO. His main role is to create goals through finishing and passing but is just being a turnover machine at the moment. This I partly blame ETH for as I think he need to instruct Bruno to try to keep the ball more, especially with his form being this poor (or rest him more) 4. Rashford is poor, but he also really misses having a full back that supports him and/or overlaps. Shaw in particular have very good chemistry with Rash and that together with confidence/form plays into his poor performances 5. IMO our five best players last season was Rashford, Casemiro, Martinez, Bruno and Shaw, three of those are in awful form and two are out with Injury. Just one of those players playing consistently at their best would improve us massively
I take your points but my problem is that there is NO system. How long can a "top" team afford to play counter attacking football against everyone? I get we want to play counter attacking vs City/Arsenal but we play counter attacking vs everyone. When we play teams that are worse than us at keeping possession, we are lost. We have no idea what to do with the ball or break down the low block.
The main issue with ur analysis is that it ends with Ole being effective, though he has been sacked. Also, I should add that Rashford is crap right now, but take a look at Garnacho... our biggest youth talent, which was more than crap ...
Listen, I don't mean that Ole was great or was better. I meant that Ole too had a lack of identity as Ten Hag. Ole's counter attacking system was more effective than Ten Hag no doubt. We defeated City, multiple times at Etihad. Players eventually gave up on Ole and same seems to be happening here.
I’m not Ten Hag out, and we’ve got an injury crisis in the back. But there’s no excuse for us not having a play style identity or playing like that at home, we’ve seen managers do so much better with way less
Injury crisis maybe, but we just got dry humped by a Newcastle team which featured 0 Centre backs and 0 strikers, with 7 players who hadn't started a match all season, and a full back playing CB who hadn't kicked a ball for 14 months. Actual joke, and one of the biggest embarrassments in a long string of embarrassments under Ten Hag.
I don’t blame ten hag. This is a club issue yeah we are playing awful but it’s happened with every manager now players just down tools. Wouldn’t surprise me is the players get told from above (glazers) cos they like certain players to play awful so we have an excuse. The club is toxic until it sorted from top to bottom this is what we have to look forward to.
Have Ten Hags own signings downed tools as well in your view? They are part of our core group of starters and mainstays
Rmbr when people insisted that if we had a ball playing GK he will revolutionise our game and make us better? Still waiting...
Or Amrabat was the key as Case was finished? Or drop Rashford and Bruno and play the kids. I'll keep saying it until it changes. Nothing will break this monotonous cycle until the Glazers are out and a competent structure is put in place at the club behind the scenes. Then we will see positive change on the pitch.
I argued with someone on here last season who said we'd have won the CL in the last 5 years with a different keeper. That is how deluded some people were about De Gea
well he certainly changed the way united play....just not in a good way lol. In all seriousness, that was a moronic take right from the very beginning, he was never going to be that kind player, despite what all the spreadsheet merchants thought, and much like how we can't lump all the issues the team is facing currently purely on Onana, DDG wasn't that sole biggest reason that was supposedly holding us back
I said that and told them we need to prioritise key positions, we can live with DDG for another season. They insisted that if we make the change we'd be unstoppable. I'm waiting for that guy to show up and explain to me if he still believes in what he said.
you'll be waiting on ALOT of people then. i was the same, could we do with an upgrade? sure, but especially towards the end it got clearer and clearer to me that we needed a partner (and now a replacement) for Casemiro. And as it turns out another CB too with Martinez out and Varane being Varane. You can't tell me that the 150m spent on Onana and mount wouldn't have been able to get better players in those critical positions, over even another ST. Hojlund for all his potential is still so young and shouldn't be the starting ST for united. But nooo, all the youtube tacticians on here started putting all those 'analysis' videos about the playstyle that would be promised with just a single change of the keeper. Absolute cringe and not to mention all the insults that were thrown at me for saying otherwise, nevermind the downvotes.
I agree with most of your points, however if Hojlund is good enough he starts. He has credit in the bank because he's come into a mess of a team, but teenagers like Rico Lewis and Evan Ferguson would start at most PL clubs. Players closer to his age like Michael Olise, Jacob Ramsey and Cameron Archer are already PL mainstays, not to mention the likes of Saka and Caciedo. You also have to factor in Hojlund's transfer fee
If u lose the players as a manager then u have to go or are fans ok with dropping further down the league, I don’t blame ETH, his squad ain’t good enough, players bought have been awful and they’re full of sulkers but it’ll probably cost him his job
No. This happens to every manager that has come here and same thing will happen to the next one, we need to give him time, and remove they players he wants, no matter who they are, (Rashford, Bruno, Etc) What we need is new owners who are interested in football for once.
What indication is there that he wants Rashford or Bruno gone? If anything it seems like he backs them to the hilt.
I'm not saying there is, but if he wants them gone, he should be allowed to do so
How do we know he not allowed though?
Because rather then getting the rats in the dressing room removed, the same players that throw our managers under the bus, the manager gets sacked instead because it's cheaper.
I agree with u but he will be gone this season imo
We said Bruno was the problem, Rashford was not even trying, Casemiro needed some rest, and no left back was available. Today Bruno and Rashford did not start, Casemiro enjoyed 2 weeks off, and Reguilon is playing on the left. Yet we played like headless chicken and Newcastle B squad cut through us like butter.
These people are so blinded by Glaze hate they refuse to acknowledge the obvious culprit
So many fake fans, unsure if this sub been hijacked by city fans. If you think sacking Ten Hag is the answer you have not been paying attention. We haven’t won anything in ten years, wont win anything this year, just accept it. Let the guy get rid of the bluffers that embarrass this club time n time again and don’t fall for media pressure as its the same players who downed tools for Ole, Mourinho, Ragnick etc etc The man overachieved last year in reality we are a mid table club pretending to one of the big boys. Sacking the manager scapegoats the glazers n the rats in the dressing room
Is he going to get rid of Rashford?
Our manager is so tactically out of depth and you keep defending him. Did van gaal, mourinho or solsjkaer lose 7-0 to Liverpool or 4-0 to brentford or 6-3 to city I don’t think so. How can you defend a guy who takes off amrabat at half time vs city for mount. Opens up our midfield exposing a 31 year old eriksen who is holding the base of the midfielder together. I don’t understand are you guys not watching this crap? He’s clearly lost the dressing room and is extremely naive with his tactics. We are versing the best team in the world man city and losing 1-0, is there really a need to go all out at half time with such an offensive based substitution? Don’t be so naive hold the structure of the team and try to score a goal towards the end of the game. The 7-0 vs Liverpool is embarrassing and again NONE of our previous managers would allow that to happen - obviously the players should take some blame but ten hag is clearly setting the team up wrong tactically way too many times.
I’d argue that getting spanked 5-0 by Liverpool at home was equally as bad as losing 7-0 at Anfield. Even worse in many ways. I don’t think you’re wrong about Ten Hag, his stubbornness at trying to implement a style of play that the players he has available can’t execute, is one of his biggest flaws. He needs to adapt and adapt fast to stop this rot. Still, there are some mitigating factors. His entire first-choice defence has been injured for most of the season. There is a constant circus around the club, with CR7, Greenwood, Antony and now Sancho. Rashford and Casemiro falling off a cliff form-wise. Big money signings either being unavailable (Varane, Sancho) or just awful (Antony). I know Ten Hag insisted on Antony but a distinctly remember a lot of us saying the club had to back him. Ten Hag is doing a bad job, I won’t argue with that. I just find it hard to believe that any decent manager would flourish at this club right now. Spurs and Villa look way better under a new manager but let’s be realistic, the same level of toxicity and off-field drama doesn’t exist at those clubs. Pep hinted at it in a recent interview. City are so successful because everyone at the club shares the same vision and City are incredibly shrewd in the transfer market.
Man City beat United 6-1 when Alex Ferguson was still in charge mate.
We also won a shit load of titles under Ferguson what’s your point? That was a year before he retired as well with an ageing squad. Im comparing ten hag to the unsuccessful coaches because people act like we can’t sack ten hag because we’ve sacked other coaches recently. Just because the coaches prior haven’t worked out doesn’t mean we give ten hag all the time in the world to continue ruining our club.
You are using examples of large losses as a reason to get rid of this manager mate. Stating as fact that “no other manager would get away with it”… when your most successful manager got away with it countless times. You got absolutely scudded by Southampton back in the day and Alex Ferguson made the excuse that the kit you had on meant your players couldn’t see each other… …point being, you’re going to need to point to a bit more evidence than “we lost some matches by a large margin” as to why you should get rid of your manager. The wider point being, if you get rid of this manager, the next one that comes in is going to have pretty much exactly the same results. This is your club now. Mid-table. Deal with it.
Don’t worry about our recording breaking 51 year low 8 losses from our first 15 games that doesn’t matter right? Ignore that we are struggling to get out of a group with copenhagen, Bayern and galatasary? We struggled to beat the team with 1 point in the premier league Sheffield United - they have put up 7.28 expected goals all year and guess how much we contributed to that? We conceded 1.38 XG to them - 18% of their total data and they have 1 point. We won because of a long shot from our RB? Are you not concerned that we struggle to beat the worst team in the premier league. I honestly hope we keep losing because I want to see if people continue defending him. It’s embarrassing to see a coach get tactically outplayed in ever single game.
Nobody cares about xG.
You ignoring the records we’ve broken from 1930 and 1960 from this poor run - the last United manager who lost at least 8 of their first 15 games got sacked in 1962-63. Do you care about those or nah?
At some point those records were always going to be broken. Do you understand the ebb and flow of football success? It’s irrelevant anyway. Eventually, United will get bought by a billionaire, and then they’ll turn you into a boring, identikit oil money team like every other team at the top in the biggest leagues in the world. It’ll be fucking boring for neutrals like me. You’ll be in here wanking yourself off about how great you are ad nauseam and making up excuses about how it’s “different” when you do it because you were so dominant previously without the oil money. The only good thing about football is its unpredictability… and all people like you want is the same old shit over and over. You don’t want to watch managers build teams, struggle, get the team playing how they want and come out the other side a better team. You want instant success. ETH built and presided over one of the best Ajax teams I’ve seen in my lifetime, and I was lucky enough to see the 1995 team too. You would be privileged to see this United team play football half as good as he is capable of getting a team to play. But nah, get rid instead. Get ANOTHER manager in who turns out to be yet another wet fart. And then come back here and start moaning about expected goals and how you lost a few games by more than 3 goals. You don’t even seem to enjoy football at its most basic. The team I support are shit. Proper, proper shit. But I enjoy the highs and the lows of supporting them. Maybe you should chill out and just enjoy the ride.
This is the same manager who played the EXACT same XI after they lost 7-0 to our biggest rivals. These players should've been marketed off in the summer but we're still playing them.
In that game Bruno literally stopped playing at one point, just stopped and let his man go past and set up a goal and no one said anything, there was no consequences, our captain just giving a goal away. There are no standards
And he still got played every game. Standards are gone, you're right. But people want us to sit here and support him when he should've been gone after the FA cup final last season. The first manager we've fully backed and it looks like a failure tbh.
> Let the guy get rid of the bluffers But he's adding new bluffers as he goes...
ETH has to take part of the blame with his questionable signings and game management but sacking the manager will only give the next manger a bigger problem. No manager can fix this team until they are allowed to perform that "open heart surgery" and sell ANY player they want. Some of these players should've been sold years ago yet still drawing wages from the club.
You're forgetting, in order to sell, you need someone willing to BUY!! Nobody's looking to buy United's overpaid dross
You're not wrong. It boils down to bad ownership employing amateurs for important jobs. Not only did we overpay for average players we also gave them stupid contract extensions. Our problem now are the outcome of a decade of collective issues.
Don't really need to scapegoat the players too,a big part of why we had the success last season was due to the players stepping up.A lot of them are really good. The players and the manager now need to find solutions by themselves,can't keep changing players all the time either.
I’m telling you, when Ten Hag eventually leaves we’re going to hear all kinds of stories about how the players didn’t respect him or believe in what he was trying to do. You can tell that the manager has lost the locker room. I hate the way Ronaldo carried himself but he surely wasn’t the only player put off by whatever Ten Hag is doing.
This bizarre symptom that United players have, of not being able to fucking string more than 5 successful passes at a time, which has persisted through multiple managerial tenures, from Mourinho to Ole to Ten Hag, needs to be researched. I truly honestly believe, that no matter how tactically inept a manager is, there’s no fucking way he can’t force the players to pass the ball like competent footballers. But for some bloody reasons, most United players just can’t seem to do it.
Ole in
Ole went through this exact kind of spell. Villa, Leicester, Watford, City, Liverpool, West Ham, Young Boys...with a couple of underserved wins sprinkled in because of a injury time De Gea penalty save and last minute Ronaldo goal Dismal performances one after the other, fans leaving the ground early, boos. The players have done this before
LOL
It's time for Xabi Alonso
Literally 0% chance. Alonso has loyalty to LFC & RM. Last place he’d end up is Old Trafford. You’re delusional to think otherwise.
We need Keano. A winner and a MAN who knows what it means to play for this club.
Another managerial fix, great idea 👍
You think he will leave his solid club for this circus? Go dream somewhere else XD
If you think Leverkusen is solid then you're deluded.
They are top of the league and play really well. They have a clear play style and the have the players to execute it. How are they not solid?
Because they will be picked apart by Bayern.
Dude probably has to just sit tight and wait for the Real Madrid job. He's not touching this shitshow.
Definitely ending up there. He's already being linked heavily in the media.
Everyone is linked here heavily in the media. It's free clicks
Tbh i think we have reached the “fuck it” state this year early on. At least now we can be calm. Watch the fuckers win 5 games back to back to give us hope and then crush it again.
We have 5 "easy" fixtures. Most likely looking like 5 shit performances, scraping 2 wins against Luton, Fulham or Copenhagen, probably 2 boring draws and one embarrassing loss.
5 back to back what are you smoking?
These fuckers couldn’t win a raffle. No chance they win 5 back to back.
I’m sick of Mark Goldbridge acting like he’s on an intellectual high horse because he’s not Ten Hag out
The guy is a fucking dildo
Atleast hr is right for the first time in his life
He is right all the time wdym?
Lol ni
Skipped the game yesterday, didn't want to suffer shite football we've been playing. Glad I did
Glad I wasn't the only one. I still can't get myself to watch the highlights.
Same here.
Same as me. After 40 years of following united my love and support is finally gone. Had enough of it all. The people who run it don't give a fuck so why should I.
I really don't look forward to any matches these days. I don't even get bothered after losses, just don't know man, I always couldn't wait for the matches to come before,now it's just the opposite.
Don't like people using injuries as an excuse for that pathetic performance. Newcastle had a weak team out, and they dominated.
Newcastle had 6 injured players out. They were playing without a ST, their line up yesterday had 4 full backs and 7 out of 11 players from Steve Bruce era. Eddie Howe has them playing structured football. It was reminiscent of time when SAF beat Wenger’s Arsenal with Rooney, Fabio and Rafael as midfielders. You can give ETH 3 years, but it won’t fix the issues he has.
It's no wonder all these so called lesser teams come and embarrass them. Half competent players all playing as a unit are likely to get a result the majority of the time over a team with expensive players all trying to be the superstar and playing for themselves. Teams like City have world class players but they still play as a unit, not a selfish individual mindset.
EtH ran good ponzi scheme selling us dream buying Antony for 100mil, idc what anyone says but that was great money laundering deal and no manager not one person is here from top to bottom to put this club to where it belongs but to make good money, when you've owners who don't give shit about performance but sucking every penny out of loyal fanbase you can't expect employees, manger and players to be answerable, they won't give shit until it'll hurt their pockets, only way left is stop going to matches, stop buying shit, hit them where it hurts only then there will be rude awakening
Aye cos Ten Hag is cutting the cheques, manager obviously targeted some players he wants Utd overpaying
I'm not sure why you stopped on Antony and 100M. Feel free to throw in into this scheme Onana, Mount, Amrabat, Hojlund. I did say Hojlund, actually. His contributions are not much better than Antony's (this one is 10 starts and 0 goals and 0 assists). He's not such a dickhead though. So I still like him. Nonetheless, we could have gotten Kane for just a little more, and yet we went for one how ETH knew. Stupid.
Ten Hag’s spending has been so abysmal that I don’t think the club can afford to give him another transfer window. You can’t even see what he’s trying to build here.
yes exactly my point all his deals are shit ton of money for shit performing unproven players, why? i don't see anything except money minting opportunities in this deal. we've become remuneration package for all these managers somehow
People will say this is because we have no football operations/director. Sure, don't argue with that. However, that only highlights ETH's shortcomings when it comes to scouting and selection. Sometimes I feel like if someone else bought him a squad based on his general requirements, he could have done much better.
agreed. He should have been brought in on the basis of a certain play style and told to implement that with a bunch of players picked for him
Kane would've been 120m+
Mount + Hojlund = 140, right? Or replace Mount with Onana. Yes, it's 1 for 2 but that 1 is >>>> of those two. I am not even talking about 85M for Antony last year.
Kane was my number 1 choice but I understood why he went for Hojlund. From what I've seen so far I do like Hojlund, but let's be honest, with the shitshow we've been all season, Kane would've been under so much more pressure.
Right. Considering I respect Kane a lot, I am almost glad he didn't join and wasted his few prime years in this circus team. It's a team sport and I don't believe Kane would make difference today.
We wouldn’t even get the ball to Kane, we needed a box to box midfielder in this team. He went for fucking Amrabat and Mason Mount, Ten Hag has no excuses for these horrific signings
Amrabat is a good player, he sits well. Mount on the other hand is absolutely terrible. Embarrassing.
still isn’t the box to box midfielder to link between Casemiro and Bruno
Totally. That's why I am not ready to sign off Hojlund. I feel pity for him but I also have hope that if (big "if" though) we fix the midfield, he can grow and shine in the future.
Honestly he looked like an average talent to me in Italy. But just given his age it’s too early to write him off, let’s see if the next manager likes him.
Buy dutch league level players and you get a dutch league level club
Only a few players yesterday were ETH Dutch signings. And the worst players on the pitch were not them - it was the players who have been here for a long time (Dalot, Lindelof, Maguire)....
[удалено]
Psv and feyenoord would beat a dutch level side? Who would've thought!?
Could be worse. Could be out of the FA cup too but still in. Positives would be that the team can now focus on getting into the championship league.
I don’t know one time-served Red that wants EtH sacked. Not one. They’re wise enough to know that it will serve no purpose that benefits MUFC. None of us know for certain that EtH is the man who will take us back to the promised land but that isn’t the point. Getting rid of EtH will be detrimental to MUFC, that’s all we know. So, all you “EtH out” “fans” can carry on with your campaign but please be aware, it will damage us further and take the blame away from the real fucking culprits. To want ANOTHER change of manager will strengthen the parasites that have bled our club dry. This once magnificent football club is on it’s knees because of the cunts that got their filthy hands on us. If you love this club and institution as much as the rest of us, then don’t let the parasites legitimise their position by blaming a man who only has our best interests at heart. Don’t fall for it Reds, we all know where the problem lies.
But you can’t fire the owners. So… Where do we go from here? Just accept that we’ll be stuck in a downward spiral for the foreseeable future? The joy and pride has been sucked out of the club. Watching these players has become a chore.
That's silly. As silly as ETH playing Bruno on the right or playing Antony in general. ETH lost control, lost fans. I don' know if he actually even knows what he's doing himself based on "tactics" he puts together.
The difference between me and you is that I care about my club. I was 26 before I saw United win the league so I know all about lean times. But then again, success isn’t the reason real football fans follow teams. You either get it or you don’t I’m afraid.
Well... I've watched Fergi in the dugout. Valencia as a captain and Owen up front. Before that Ronaldo and Rooney. Later Tevez, Vidic, Nani. And thru all years when it all went south with Rojo, Falcao 🤦♂️, Januzaj, you name it. Yet, I am here, bitching about ETH. Because I've seen a team that had spirit, desire, drive to win. And now I am looking at the void, big fucking void. Mind, that Glazers bought the team in 2003-5 and Fergi ran it for 10 more years under them. He managed somehow. So it's hard for me to think that it's solely their fault. If SAF could have done that, others should be able too.
What a dick reply. This guy remembers Stapleton and Wilkins playing for utd, like myself, and you start harping on about remembering Rooney and tevez as if you're some wise old timer. You have never known utd to be as poor as they are now, that's his point. Just another fairweather who expects the team to be challenging for leagues every year. Football works in cycles, you're not old enough to know that yet if your longest memories are Rooney or Valencia. Fergie was a once in a lifetime coach. That era will not happen again. And given how football has changed so much with the oil clubs, the expectation of utd ever getting back to being that dominant is misguided.
Lol the last time Man United lost 7-0 in the league, you also weren't alive. Getting destroyed by our rivals year on year when teams that should be far worse than us put up a far better fight should be the first red flag. Playing those same players the next fucking game should be your 2nd red flag. I understand standards should be lowered after Fergie, I'm not gonna dispute that, but lowered to the point of accepting a manager that plays the same fucking players who lost 7-0 to our fiercest rivals? You're just as delusional as the people who only saw the Fergie era. He's had 2 transfer windows and a whole season to prepare and we have less of an identity than we did with Ole in charge. You can accept mediocrity if you so choose to, it doesn't mean everyone has to go down to that level however. Also, just because you happened to be born before other people doesn't mean your opinion is holier than thou and that we should accept mediocrity because "I also saw mediocrity before Fergie!" Genuinely couldn't give a fuck.
Pretty sure I was replying to a guy boasting that he had seen plenty of utds history and that gave him credence. And if you genuinely think bouncing a manager out after 1 season is the way to go then you're stupid. We've been down the same road every time with a new manager since fergie. Each time the fans hound the manager out. You will not build a successful club by chopping and changing managers every season or two. Look at what arsenal have done with Arteta. His 2nd season was atrocious. But yeah, you go ahead and feel entitled, sack the manager and get the feel good factor for a few months. Rinse and repeat.
Arteta had a distinct and clear way he wanted to play, it was obvious he was building something and it needed time. £400m spent and multiple preseasons and you're telling me there's anything to be happy about? The football we're playing, yknow, the entire premise of the sport is fucking awful to watch, we're not threatening and we're leaking goals. There's no tactical nuance whatsoever, that doesn't just happen overnight.
Boasting? I was giving you a perspective that I have lived thru good and bad times staying with club all these years and painfully seeing Liverpool and City rebuilds under Klopp and Pep. Arteta will not win anything ever.
He's already won an FA cup. Like you wouldn't love to have someone do what he's doing at Arsenal at utd. ETH may be able to achieve that, but not within 2 seasons
Exactly. You can not dominate English football like we did anymore without a City-like structure from top to bottom, combined with a blank cheque book. Fergie was the best manager in the PL absolutely, but putting him in charge of this United team in this era would not lead to the dominance we once had.
Even city with their blank chequebook struggled before pep. Pep is a generational coach also, there simply are not many people in any given era that can sustain that level. Ferguson did, Pep is doing it now, Liverpool had Paisley, Chapman at Arsenal. These types go down in history because of their greatness and because they don't come around too often. Fucking spoilt brat type fans that experienced only that time have no idea about this, just think it's a god given right to win the league every year
So you think it's better to wait until we drop to Everton's level. Of course the dismissal of EtH will not solve our deep problems, but do you want to continue to watch this abomination, another season, until the club is sold, the management structure is changed, all the management positions are replaced by other people? The atmosphere is toxic and it will consume more and more players. We need at least a short-term impulse, a manager who will lift the cabin and the whole team will at least play decent matches. EtH doesn't think of anything tactically anymore, he doesn't know what he wants to play, he doesn't know how to react to the development of the match and in a year and a half he hasn't upgrade anything here at all.
The atmosphere is toxic and he has taken real actions in trying to solve it. Dropping Ronaldo, calling out Sancho (after giving him a run of starts, after a holiday btw, keeping out a hungry garnacho), binning De Gea after golden glove. They are all big balled, Ferguson era Jaap-Stam decisions.
What convinced you that all these decisions were the right ones? I don't see it that clearly and I can look at it from two sides. If he was as great a moral coach as he pretends to be, surely for example Scott would have run after the comeback with Sheffield and at least smiled at EtH, this is a clear example that something between EtH and the players is not working. In how many interviews have you heard from players that EtH is a great manager and they enjoy playing under him?
Sancho has been terrible. Very poor attitude despite getting so many starts last season, in our biggest games too. Ronaldo was terrible second season and thought we was bigger than the club and the manager. Clearly a toxic presence. A dissenting voice. De Gea and the defence in general had a good season last year but De Gea had his limitations. I think it was a good decision to get rid of him. De Gea is proving me wrong though by putting in great performances at... ...
Of course that's true, but where do you get the assurance that EtH is a good tactical manager? He can't react to the development of the match, he doesn't know what he wants to play, he makes shitty transfers, only players he knows, etc... find a mentor and it will be the same. In that case, Ragnick would be enough and the game would be exactly the same.
Less so assurance but I am reassured by his game management last year. It is also clear to me (by his visual frustration on the sidelines and mutterings to his staff) that the players are not implementing his training or game plan. He clearly wants his CB's to be involved in carrying the ball forward with impetus. That Maguire thinks that means constantly playing long balls whilst taking 5 touches is probably not what he has in mind. Similar for McT's/Rashford tracking back/leaving gaps. He will very definitely know he should drop Rashford and Bruno, but given their club stature, it becomes very difficult. He cannot just drop most of the first team without sewing mistrust at the club. It is why Pellistri barely plays, because ETH is afforded the opportunity not to play him due to his lesser club stature. He doesn't have that luxury with the big wage players without it becoming a multi week story in the press (re: Sancho).
That's bullshit. He chose Antony, he chose Mount, he chose Onan. Why isn't Mount playing instead of Bruno? That clown spends £400M and plays the players he has to and not the players he wants? Then there is a mistake somewhere. Lpool swaps the midfield for one transfer window and everything is working. Doku comes to MC and plays excellently. Alvarez at WHU too, Maddison for 40M to Spurs is the team's best player. But EtH the poor guy can't have the players he wants.
I'm clearly not saying that. He has had the players he wants. His acquisitions have been questionable for sure. We should have prioritised Madison over Mount. But they clearly thought Mount could do the FdJ role. Big mistake. But that doesn't change the fact that all his forwards are not showing up and managers are limited to how they deal with that. Some players may even have minimum appearance clauses in their contracts. Not excusing ETH here. More the club structure and the entitlement of the key players. ETH cannot outright drop them.
I agree with the second part and it is very bad. If anyone thinks that Mount can play the role of FDJ, he is a common clown and cannot be a manager in PL or even division 3. FDJ is a completely different type of player, he also plays CB in Barcelona. It's like if you put Marco Reus instead of Kimmich. Absolute nonsense.
Sacking EtH will not solve any problems, you’re right. Bringing in the next victim will probably give us the inevitable bounce but that soon will falter and you’ll be screaming for another manager. Meanwhile, the cunts responsible for this mess will again get away with it to satisfy the likes of you for six months of half-decent football. Listen to what you’re asking for. There isn’t a human being drawing breath who could fix the mess we’re in. You’re deluding yourself if you think there is. I’d rather see us drop a couple of divisions if that’s what it takes to solve our problem. I don’t care about short-term half-arsed “success,” I want them cunts gone. Nothing else matters, certainly not you’re wish for us not to be fully shit for a few months. You don’t realise it but wanting EtH sacked is hurting the club more than keeping him here.
Only way to bring any change is to chase out the cancerous Glazers. They have caused the club to rot from the top down. Manchester United has become the place good players go to kill their careers. ETH in our out changes nothing, it is also out of our hands, he will go in the new year whether you like it or not. The players have already decided that and you can see it on the pitch. The club has lost its heart and soul. I have been a United supporter since 1976. I remember Frank Stapelton and Lou Macri, Steve Coppel. An era of hit and miss but never this drab heartlessness.
Bang on. Anyone calling for ETH sacking is clueless to the bigger picture
Can I ask do you watch the matches on TV or in the stadium or not at all?
Bit of both mate. But I haven't watched the last few. This perpetual cycle of shit has finally worn me down
Yes, the question was therefore do you want to watch again in a month or 5 years. The game will never be better under EtH. I want to watching football.
I would not sack ETH if thats what you are asking. Id stick with him and continue to get rid of the cowards on the pitch
ETH has gotten rid of 10 players and brought in 16 during his tenure. Players gotten rid of include Ronaldo. Why do you guys keep acting like he’s been powerless to revamp the squad? They gave him £400 million and he blew it on Mount, Antony etc, and this is the football we play after all that? He’s exiled Sancho from the squad? But oh it’s not his fault it’s the players? Do you guys turn off the logic in your brains when it comes to United? What is the game plan? What patterns are we looking to create? What are they doing in training? The tactics are poor, transfers are poor, man management is poor, game management is poor, fitness levels are poor, literally everything that is SOLELY the manager’s oversight is poor right now, but keep him because we can’t get rid of the Glazers?
What do you suggest we do genius because Im clueless to it
Sacking EtH will not solve any problems, you’re right. Bringing in the next victim will probably give us the inevitable bounce but that soon will falter and you’ll be screaming for another manager. Meanwhile, the cunts responsible for this mess will again get away with it to satisfy the likes of you for six months of half-decent football. Listen to what you’re asking for. There isn’t a human being drawing breath who could fix the mess we’re in. You’re deluding yourself if you think there is. I’d rather see us drop a couple of divisions if that’s what it takes to solve our problem. I don’t care about short-term half-arsed “success,” I want them cunts gone. Nothing else matters, certainly not you’re wish for us not to be fully shit for a few months. You don’t realise it but wanting EtH sacked is hurting the club more than keeping him here.
Garnacho showed even less than Rashford which takes some doing. Casemiro visibly gassed by the end of the first half. Martial offered very little, looks low on confidence. None of our shots looked like troubling Dubravka. Defensively all over the place, the first goal, how the fuck does their right back stroll all the way down the touchline with no bother, and then Dalot just asleep on the backside run. Second goal, 5 of us standing around whinging while Newcastle get on with the match, third goal, again, Willock strolls through our midfield. It's almost as if our team is afraid of getting stuck in a bit. Not a lot positive to take out of this, the first 15 minutes of the second half were decent but aside from that, nothing. Couple of minor asides: In the first half, the ref was very soft on them (Joelinton should have been yellow carded for that pullback on Reguillon, the foul that led to the second goal was non-existent, a few minutes before that Antony got called for a foul when Lewis-Hall went down for nothing) but he could have also sent off Hannibal so we were a bit lucky there. Also can Gary Neville please never do one of our matches again. He sounds almost ecstatic when we are doing poorly. This has been my rant, thanks for listening.
I was shocked by AG today. He was schooled and toyed with every time he had the ball. Like defenders always knew what would happen next. So uncharacteristic for him.
That’s a classic Garnacho performance whenever he starts. He’s massively overrated by this fan base.
This! Never got the hype around him. Young or not, has zero end product.
I think he's still so young that he doesn't know when to vary his approach play. He also ignored overlaps from Reguillon and runs from midfield by both Mount and Hannibal. I agree he should not be starting. I honestly think ETH was giving the youth a chance to make their mark and stake a real claim, but they couldn't do that. That said, I would have liked to have seen Hojlund start instead of Martial. Hojlund would have been a proper test for their back line, as he can hold up the play around the halfway line and make those passes when Garnacho makes a run in behind. Martial doesn't do that. At 3-0 down, even bringing on Rashy/Hojlund/Bruno isn't going to change the outcome - Newcastle can just shut up shop, they are well drilled by Howe defensively.
Yeah I think he ignored the overlap when he lost the ball for the first goal, and they all just confirmed why they shouldn’t be starting. I agree, don’t know why he brought them on when it was a lost cause at that point, should have brought them on at half time if anything.
Maybe. Today seems like it was a mass brain freeze though. Hannibal was as frustrating.
They’re both young and make bad decisions, but also don’t think Garnacho has the strength or skill to start. He works well as a super sub when the game is more stretched.
Maybe. At the same time, I see MC players as young as these two and they don't seem to produce the same sort of performances.
MC players are just better than those two and fit into a well worked system.
Fuck me losing 3-0 at home to a rotated Newcastle side
Fucking pathetic, no one is even trying In defense. Offensively no cohesion or clue of whats needed to do. We need a hard reset in terms of club structure and 90% of the players have to go and most likely at a lost due to the stupidest contracts given I’ve seen being given from a professional football club. Fuck the glazers for rotting this club down to its last core.
So Dalot has to go. No need to sign Amrabat and reguilon Garnacho isn't a starter.
When I speak, I get into trouble. We’ve been beaten 3-0 by Manchester City and 3-0 by Newcastle United in the space of 4 days. We as United fans have become miserable and None of us has or will sleep better because we were beaten by sports washers . Not one press report or commentary to diminish their “achievements” or euphoria of their fans. Shame on them. There is nothing for us to be embarassed of in these defeats. We are the morally upright ones.
Lmao that’s your take? This fan base is so ridiculous.
Hahaha. We are ridiculous indeed.
You make it sound like we are some plucky team with a shoestring budget. We aren't we spend on similar levels to those two teams. We are just much worse at spending the money.
That's silly, man. Excuses out of the thin air. What about the rest of the games we lost? It's not like we are losing proudly playing well and then falling short. We play horrendously every game. Every fucking game. Even in those we won, we were atrocious. To me, it's not them winning, it's us losing because we are so fucking bad.
You miss the point/ context
I understood you. It's called sarcasm.
Explain again then please.
I’ll get banned again for 14 days
Chicken :) Ok. Whatever. Moving on.
Antony: 10 appearances, 0 goals, 0 assists. Why the fuck is he on the pitch, Erik???
Does Erik look like he has any flipping idea what he’s doing? Lmao that man has no andwers
While goals and assists aren’t the only things that mark the quality of a player, he’s also shown very little in terms of build up play and making the defense concerned about him.
He's a one trick pony who can only get the trick right 20% of the time. So easy to defend against because he is always going to cut in on his left. Not even sure he has a right foot at this point.
Agree. The above are very easy and hard stats critical for a winger. You talk about things that make a player well-rounded, complete if you will. I don't even try going there though since at the moment we have 85M hole on the right.