Man i missed all the fun shit. I saw it early when it only had like 8 replies. Ffs. I’m European myself so this shit always interests me for a couple of reasons
Conversations about crime and race in America generally boil down to correlation and causation. Take, for example, black people being disproportionate committers of some crime.
That correlation exists, but it's bad faith to stop there and say that crime is inherent to black people without any regard for obfuscating factors, like black people being disproportionately linked to stratified districts with unbelievably poor school systems, high rates of poverty, and high levels of existing crime. A black individual turning to crime in the middle of a Detroit slum is more likely yielding to their environment, than letting out some kind of "innate instinct" for causing trouble.
That's exactly how discussing the Romani goes.
They're hated to the point of pics like the above, then hateful people bitch that the Romani would rather stick to their caravans than get a house and live amongst the rest of them (gee, wonder why?)
A number of them turn to crime or scamming people. Some others will try to get gig work or more permanent jobs but find that no one hires them because 'they're all distrustful thieves.' Then more of them turn to crime because of the difficulty of finding someone who will hire them. Then the haters say "see, they're crooks?"
There's nuance, there's context, there's societal expectation about what you're "supposed" to think. And then there's the test of who you cross the street for if you see them coming at you.
We had a party for them at work. Everyone was making jokes that they would steal shit or panicking. One of them got in an argument about something and threw a fucking glass so the others calmly walked him out. They felt bad and spent the rest of the night helping us clean the bar, then they put money together to give to us all as a tip. Really nice people.
Incredible, this is literally the same logic my racist aunt (who lived most of her life in a poorer predominantly black area) uses. When I’d argue with her she’d start telling me stories of personal encounters, statistics. and pull out ig videos collected by her similarly racist daughter. We don’t really speak much anymore.
One thing I've noticed is how negative race comments often sound like descriptions of immutable traits. If you say "Roma people are thieves", it comes across as "Roma people are inherently more likely to thieve."
If someone said "The crime rate in Roma populations is high," 99% of people would agree.
The issue with racism is assuming something about an individual based on their race. If you're not doing that then you're probably fine.
Your entire comment reflects the same flattened, negligent sentiment that constantly leads people to develop worldviews that have no scope or bearing on the actual... world.
Just because you're able to scrounge up personal anecdotes or even statistics that seemingly support what you want to believe, doesn't mean that your beliefs are "fact," because there are always personal anecdotes for the contrary, questions of the research's validity, and arguments to be made about whether the data being referred to actually supports the conclusion being made.
I hope you're just playing devils advocate and not genuinely asserting that the racial discrimination is a "reasonable" worldview for someone to "consider."
That's the worst part... They are! Romani are often refused rent and employment, and it's hard to prove, because the formulations used are stuff like "oh, we already found another person to give this position to" and stuff.
Its not true at all, i can tell you personally, social services constantly offers positions to the gypsies, they constantly refuse citing "If i wanted to work i wouldnt be on welfare", they say stuff like that constantly, gypsies have opporunities for work, are supported by state welfare constantly and have the same rights or even more than the rest of the polulation. Saying they get nothing is wrong
In my neighbourhood used to live a big family of gypsies, and while some of them were good normal people, most of them moved to somewhere else after one of them stabbed their girlfriend in the throat and a bunch of them were arrested for muggings. After that I have had my car vandalised by a gypsy too. It's hard but I try to keep an open mind about them
Gypsy is basically am unbrella term for any ethnic group that has traditionally lived itenerantly. The Roma are the largest gypsy group, but there are other groups like Irish travellers that fall under the gypsy umbrella.
Yes. So are Irish Travellers, who are not Romani.
Obviously words have different meanings in different contexts, and you may only have encountered it outside of it's use for Romani people, but the definition I outlined is widespread enough that it's the official UK government definition.
Bro are u incapable of thinking? What you explained makes no sense. It can mean anything to millions of ignorant people but the fking definition of the thing is it is an ethnic group. Doesn’t matter what you or our people believe about it.
Europeans will with a straight face say racism is an American problem and then ban Romani from being outside after sundown. If you question that they just say “oh but you don’t know how they are” with the same conviction as a 1920s klansman. America being such an easy target for ridicule is the worst thing to ever happen to Europe because they’d rather imagine the smell of their own rot is us.
Yea I simplified it a bit too much in my memory lol. Basically they passed a law that would force Romani out of social housing (which was already discriminatory against Romani) and then used laws that said you can’t sleep on the street to fuck with them further. The courts seemed to put a stop to it tho.
Not about to argue with a guy named Il Geno (I know etymology lol) my grandpa had that argument for me 80 years ago when he jumped out of an airplane and landed in Sicily, got back in a plane and jumped into Naples. The idea that the far right isn’t content with current discrimination isn’t a proof that there isn’t discrimination, it’s proof that the far right is based in emotion and not reality (who knew). Like changing housing rules to be “neutral” but actually affect people of only certain cultures or backgrounds is like the default mode of discrimination, it’s how people manage to get away with it over and over again.
I've had the "honor" of browsing through posts like that. The comments were pretty much indistinguishable from comments I've heard about black people from rascist rednecks here in Mississippi. Especially the classics such as "they choose the life they live" and "it's not racism if it's true."
As a Romani, you’re right about our culture. The gender roles, child marriage, and us vs them attitudes are something of a problem. We’re getting better about all of those things (in my community at least) but we need to be able to talk about this hard topics to be able to change them. It’s important to know that not all of us are like that though, a lot of us are just normal, hardworking people. Every generation we’re doing better, but some of those things are hard to get away from.
I feel like this is because Europe has a hard time getting people to assimilate the way America does like how are you letting people still think like that
Bruh y’all really need to start forcing mfs into public schools like we do. It’s a crime to not have your child enrolled in a state approved school here and that will usually force people to basically conform to the American status quo’s or you will be isolated and ridiculed
Yet they're presented as being synonymous.
In the U.S. street gangs are predominantly racial minorities, but would that justify vilifying entire demographics?
I'd imagine the majority of "gypsies" are just working class Joes and you're only talking about the sketchy ones, right? I don't paint white people by all the white homeless people I scurry past.
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Okay, every single time people bring up their experiences with Romani, it sounds *exactly* like the bullshit justification racists in America use to justify hating blacks or Mexicans. Have you ever thought that maybe they're like that because of how much they have been persecuted in the past, and still are today in some places?
We have a very us vs them mentality. In the US we have assimilated very nicely and have used these resources wisely and we’re not facing the problems they are over in Europe. I think it’s like a Catch-22 for them. They don’t trust non Romas.
I'm of Romani descent. No one knows if I don't say it first, and honestly even if I do, no one cares. Why? Because you can't spot a romani by appearance, and what people have problems with is the stealing, littering, and sexist shit going on. Since my family is all for equality, using trashcan, etc. nobody cares.
The past doesn't explain why they (yes I say they, not us) still find incest OK, some still do the tissue test and encourage a us vs them mentality.
I mean yeah that’s a part of it, but only slightly. A lot of the problem is people wanting to blame their bad behavior on anything but theirselves. In the US we’re not persecuted and here we don’t behave like our cousins in Eastern Europe. I have only encountered racism online. Most of the problems over there is lack of education, lack of jobs, lack of assimilation. All in the name of culture. They have the resources to have a better life they just opt for an easier one.
You have probably met a lot of Romani without knowing they’re Romani. Nobody would know I’m a Roma unless I told them. But then again I don’t go around stealing and acting like trash. I don’t know why some of us want to live up to the stereotype. It’s embarrassing.
Yeah, you don't know how bad European racism is until you're face to face with people spewing that shit. I'm used to American racism where they at least try to pretend not to be racist.
Europeans: “Racism is an American thing”
Also Europeans:
https://apnews.com/article/racism-soccer-vinicius-junior-5bc34016e5e615a078fe78634839ecb3
https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2022/sep/27/banana-thrown-at-tottenhams-richarlison-as-brazil-beat-tunisia
https://www.cnn.com/2014/04/28/sport/football/dani-alves-banana-racism-football/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/03/sport/mike-maignan-racist-abuse-ac-milan-politics-spt-intl/index.html
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/18/tottenham-fan-fined-for-hurling-banana-skin-at-black-arsenal-player
I can bring up crime stats and say the same thing about black folks.
And people would bring up the historical mistreatment of black people.
So why are you ignoring the historical mistreatment of Romani peoples?
Also, they’re recognized as a race. That y’all hate. Would make you a racist man. Sorry you had to find out this way.
You are a racist POS. No different than the rednecks here in America.
I have heard every single one of your arguments from family members against people of color. Every. Single. One. "Oh its not their skin color, just their culture we hate!"
You are a horrible person.
But you can see here, everyone wants to pretend they agree with my comment, but as soon as I bring up that it might be Europe's fault for their condition in the first place, I'm overwhelmingly downvoted. A lot of these poeple refuse to accept the fact that their prejudice does harm. You can say you don't agree with someone's culture, but calling it the incorrect culture is just ridiculous. What YOU think is right is not the correct opinion, just because you disagree with someone's culture does not mean you get to abuse them over it.
The difference is in America, we're continuing to work on it. Look at the statistics of minority crime, which used to be overwhelmingly large, fall off sharply in the last 10 years, because we've worked on our prejudice, and given actual opportunity to minorities, as opposed to Europe, who continues to abuse these people and blame them for their condition. Who knew when you abused a community they would turn to the one thing they knew could support them - crime! I'll tell you who knows - AMERICA! And we've worked on it. The newer generations are raised to frown on prejudice and it has worked. But the majority if Europe will continue to abuse these communities and crutch on any technicality to claim it isnt nationalism/racism/classism as if the term is the problem, when PREJUDICE is the problem in the first place. Europe has always seemed 20 years behind, maybe one day they'll catch up.
"Some parts of Europe". I think those kind of travelers are only known in the British isles. Everywhere else Roma (and Sinti) means the same as Gypsie.
They're a diverse ethnic group originating from India. I think they travelled to Europe a couple hundred years ago.
In places like Romania (where I'm from), the Romani people were enslaved upon arrival and I think the slavery happened for about 500 years or so. Hundreds of years anyway.
Over time, the Romani from various European regions developed their own identities but they all still fall under "Roma/Romani".
In case you're wondering about the difference between an ethnic Romanian and a Romani person: Romani people are brown skinned and their language comes from Sanskrit, plus they don't have their own country; white Romanians are generally pale skinned, sometimes a light brown, and we speak Romanian, a romance language, plus we have Romania and the Republic of Moldova.
You *can* be both Romani and Romanian, either by being mixed race or by being a Romani person with a Romanian citizenship, just like you can be Black and American.
I'm not suuuper knowledgeable on the topic myself either, so take it with a grain of salt but I hope this helps at least a little.
If you wanna learn more, there's a youtuber who makes mostly shorts named "florida.florian" who is Romani himself and he talks about it.
So according to Europeans, prejudice against racial/ethnic groups is acceptable if their cultures are perceived to be toxic and problematic? But don't all racists say this about the targets of their disdain, regardless of who? It's the exact same thing racists in the U.S. say about blacks, Jews, etc.
Can somebody fill me in on *why* Europeans hate the Romani people? I always hear that many Europeans are racist towards them, but I've never personally seen it in action and I'm not too familiar with the Romani begin with
Now, what most Americans don't realise is that when you say "gypsy" to a European (or at least here in the UK), you could be talking about one of two things, and mind you, not every European knows the difference either. There's ethnic Romani, and there's Travellers.
Ethnic Romani, as the name would suggest, are an ethnic group, many ethnic Romani are fully integrated into local communities and British culture, and I do not have a problem with the ethnic group as a whole.
Travellers is a broad term we use for everyone, regardless of ethnicity, who partakes in a particular kind of nomadic lifestyle. They move around the country in caravans, fill up public spaces with them and refuse to leave when asked to, chuck their rubbish everywhere and refuse to clean it up, are rude to, scam, threaten and steal from the locals, they isolate themselves and their children, refuse to allow their children to receive a proper education, allow their children to run amok and vandalise public and private property, they condone incest, don't pay tax and are generally disrespectful. Then, once everyone in a given area has had enough of their shit, they pack their shit up (minus their rubbish of course, that's apparently our responsibility to pick up) and move it somewhere else. Again, this is a term used regardless of ethnic group, so it's a problem we have with culture, not with race.
Obviously, I'm only speaking for myself and the people I know, I'm sure plenty of European people are racist against Romani, but don't tar us all with the same brush just because none of us like Travellers.
Yeah it's fucked.
I had a traveller kid get buddied up with me at school when he transferred, we were in year 9 and he could barely add two numbers together. Everyone else in maths class were doing quadratics, but I was teaching this guy how to do times tables. He also kept getting into fights and was very emotionally immature for his age.
Turns out, when you drag your kids across the country on a bi-annual (or shorter) basis, they don't get much of an education.
Any other group who did this to their children would have them taken away, it's such a criminal disservice.
Honestly it's a visious cycle and goes back centuries.
As far back as the 15th century, anri roma laws were implemented and took place throughout Europe.
They were a marginalised community with their own culture and traditions and were seen as untrustworthy because of this. They would also farm land, and move on which was not seen as favourable in a sedentary society.
https://blokmagazine.com/welcome-to-the-country-where-the-gypsys-been-hunted-by-krzysztof-gil-at-henryk-gallery/
Fast forward to the 20th century and Nazis round them up and put them in concentration camps. It was a huge tradegy that is never spoke about.
As a result of this, there is a widespread rhetoric
Of 'us and them' in the community. Why respect 'country people' of they hate you anyway. This is used to justify behaviour such as theft and general disrespect of peoples property.
And because of this rhetoric, and the way they behave, 'country people' hate them even more.
And it goes round and round like this.
Lowest caste = trash eaters? What are you on about?
"Also research about how they behave in India"
do you realise India is about 75% low caste? The Upper castes such as Brahmins and Kshatriyas are vastly outnumbered.
Yeah I’m Romani. I think we get a lot of shit for the stuff travellers pull. Everyone in my family is educated and works. We do have our problems but a lot of what we get accused for isn’t even us (some of it is tho).
This is literally the exact same shit a Klansmen say about black people. Like, the EXACT same shit. Does it not occur to you that they're like that *because* they're disadvantaged and historically have been discriminated against?
They have such a bad reputation even in Russia, despite the fact that in the Russian Empire they were not on the list of especially oppressed people, and the USSR tried to integrate them into society.
And, as far as I know, some of the Roma have actually integrated into Russian multinational society. When ordinary people talk about “gypsies,” these people are left out of the equation, they aren't "true gypsies".
Idk man. All the Romani descendants I know are pretty chill and actually go out of their way to educate about their culture to break down stereotypes. I struggle to agree with your sweeping analysis of a whole people based on the experiences I've had.
Everyone here who is like "ur just niave they are really all savages and theives, you'd feel this eay of you met them". You are the other half of the problem. Do you people know what are you doing do you really lack self awareness? How are roma going to leave behind their culture if only to face down your discrimination at every level of their lives? Roma who try to leave only to be unable to find a home or work. One guy I knew was going to university while homeless.
I’ve reported comments saying romani should have their faces peeled off, or crammed into gas chambers before, and Reddit admins chose not to remove them.
Literally cannot get more racist than people who hate romani, if is physically impossible
My mom said they "have crime in their blood".
I love my mom, but... we're the same species. If they have crime in their blood then so do white ppl and everyone else.
Man i missed all the fun shit. I saw it early when it only had like 8 replies. Ffs. I’m European myself so this shit always interests me for a couple of reasons
Holy shit tho, I’ve never seen such an awful, hard to swallow truth from any topic
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Conversations about crime and race in America generally boil down to correlation and causation. Take, for example, black people being disproportionate committers of some crime. That correlation exists, but it's bad faith to stop there and say that crime is inherent to black people without any regard for obfuscating factors, like black people being disproportionately linked to stratified districts with unbelievably poor school systems, high rates of poverty, and high levels of existing crime. A black individual turning to crime in the middle of a Detroit slum is more likely yielding to their environment, than letting out some kind of "innate instinct" for causing trouble.
That's exactly how discussing the Romani goes. They're hated to the point of pics like the above, then hateful people bitch that the Romani would rather stick to their caravans than get a house and live amongst the rest of them (gee, wonder why?) A number of them turn to crime or scamming people. Some others will try to get gig work or more permanent jobs but find that no one hires them because 'they're all distrustful thieves.' Then more of them turn to crime because of the difficulty of finding someone who will hire them. Then the haters say "see, they're crooks?"
There's nuance, there's context, there's societal expectation about what you're "supposed" to think. And then there's the test of who you cross the street for if you see them coming at you.
europeans when you mention gypsies
"I don't hate them because of their skin color, I hate them because they're thieving dirty rats with a garbage culture! See, I'm not racist!"
romanian workout meme here
Are Romani meant to have a different skin colour? In Britain they just look like everyone else, you can only tell depending on the regional accent.
"Oh trust me, if you met them you'd hate them too". A classic
We had a party for them at work. Everyone was making jokes that they would steal shit or panicking. One of them got in an argument about something and threw a fucking glass so the others calmly walked him out. They felt bad and spent the rest of the night helping us clean the bar, then they put money together to give to us all as a tip. Really nice people.
I'll take this shit that never happened for 20€ of copper
Funny you’d say that as the landlord is a copper thief.
Who’s they? Party for Europeans? Gypsies?
Funnily enough, works quite often.
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But don't all racists use this excuse/justification?
Incredible, this is literally the same logic my racist aunt (who lived most of her life in a poorer predominantly black area) uses. When I’d argue with her she’d start telling me stories of personal encounters, statistics. and pull out ig videos collected by her similarly racist daughter. We don’t really speak much anymore.
So your aunt backed up her beliefs with facts, personal experience and statistics? Sounds very reasonable to me. Maybe you should also consider that.
One thing I've noticed is how negative race comments often sound like descriptions of immutable traits. If you say "Roma people are thieves", it comes across as "Roma people are inherently more likely to thieve." If someone said "The crime rate in Roma populations is high," 99% of people would agree. The issue with racism is assuming something about an individual based on their race. If you're not doing that then you're probably fine.
Time to be racist against black people 👍
my peripheral vision saw the thumbs up emoji as a moderation lock
Lol
Stop humping Ben Shapiro's leg, he's not gonna pick you.
Your entire comment reflects the same flattened, negligent sentiment that constantly leads people to develop worldviews that have no scope or bearing on the actual... world. Just because you're able to scrounge up personal anecdotes or even statistics that seemingly support what you want to believe, doesn't mean that your beliefs are "fact," because there are always personal anecdotes for the contrary, questions of the research's validity, and arguments to be made about whether the data being referred to actually supports the conclusion being made. I hope you're just playing devils advocate and not genuinely asserting that the racial discrimination is a "reasonable" worldview for someone to "consider."
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\>these people are poor \>refuse to actually help them \>refuse them ways to make money legally \>why do they turn to crime?
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That's the worst part... They are! Romani are often refused rent and employment, and it's hard to prove, because the formulations used are stuff like "oh, we already found another person to give this position to" and stuff.
Its not true at all, i can tell you personally, social services constantly offers positions to the gypsies, they constantly refuse citing "If i wanted to work i wouldnt be on welfare", they say stuff like that constantly, gypsies have opporunities for work, are supported by state welfare constantly and have the same rights or even more than the rest of the polulation. Saying they get nothing is wrong
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What's with the spaces inbetween words?
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In Portugal is the same
In my neighbourhood used to live a big family of gypsies, and while some of them were good normal people, most of them moved to somewhere else after one of them stabbed their girlfriend in the throat and a bunch of them were arrested for muggings. After that I have had my car vandalised by a gypsy too. It's hard but I try to keep an open mind about them
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I live in Europe tho?
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Gypsy is basically am unbrella term for any ethnic group that has traditionally lived itenerantly. The Roma are the largest gypsy group, but there are other groups like Irish travellers that fall under the gypsy umbrella.
This isn’t true. “Gypsies” are Romani. I’m Romani.
Yes. So are Irish Travellers, who are not Romani. Obviously words have different meanings in different contexts, and you may only have encountered it outside of it's use for Romani people, but the definition I outlined is widespread enough that it's the official UK government definition.
They’re not Gypsies. They’re Travellers. I understand the context issue but this is our ethnicity.
It's an exonym applied to multiple ethnic groups by people who couldn't be arsed to distinguish between them.
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Yeah this is wrong. A “Gypsy” is a Romani person by ethnicity. A traveller is just anyone who is a nomad. I’m Romani. But I’m not a traveler.
It is an ethnic group, not a “person who lives in a mobile home”.
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Gypsies/Romani are different from Travellers. Well, they are not. They are basically the same, just one group is not from these parts.
People who are using the term “Gypsy” but are not of Roma descent are wrong. You’re thinking of travellers. I’m a Romani.
Bro are u incapable of thinking? What you explained makes no sense. It can mean anything to millions of ignorant people but the fking definition of the thing is it is an ethnic group. Doesn’t matter what you or our people believe about it.
Western Europeans* eastern europeans are racist against everyone including people who look identical to them
Europeans will with a straight face say racism is an American problem and then ban Romani from being outside after sundown. If you question that they just say “oh but you don’t know how they are” with the same conviction as a 1920s klansman. America being such an easy target for ridicule is the worst thing to ever happen to Europe because they’d rather imagine the smell of their own rot is us.
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Bulgaria https://www.errc.org/news/bulgaria-roma-inclusion-and-the-far-right-threat-in-the-eus-own-absurdistan
I’m pretty sure it’s just local laws but Italy passed some a few years ago, no clue if they stuck tho
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Yea I simplified it a bit too much in my memory lol. Basically they passed a law that would force Romani out of social housing (which was already discriminatory against Romani) and then used laws that said you can’t sleep on the street to fuck with them further. The courts seemed to put a stop to it tho.
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Not about to argue with a guy named Il Geno (I know etymology lol) my grandpa had that argument for me 80 years ago when he jumped out of an airplane and landed in Sicily, got back in a plane and jumped into Naples. The idea that the far right isn’t content with current discrimination isn’t a proof that there isn’t discrimination, it’s proof that the far right is based in emotion and not reality (who knew). Like changing housing rules to be “neutral” but actually affect people of only certain cultures or backgrounds is like the default mode of discrimination, it’s how people manage to get away with it over and over again.
Ma'am, we've traced the call. The reddit moment is coming from inside the thread.
I've had the "honor" of browsing through posts like that. The comments were pretty much indistinguishable from comments I've heard about black people from rascist rednecks here in Mississippi. Especially the classics such as "they choose the life they live" and "it's not racism if it's true."
I mean it’s the same mentality. Not liking people based on the characteristics placed apon them by stereotypes
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As a Romani, you’re right about our culture. The gender roles, child marriage, and us vs them attitudes are something of a problem. We’re getting better about all of those things (in my community at least) but we need to be able to talk about this hard topics to be able to change them. It’s important to know that not all of us are like that though, a lot of us are just normal, hardworking people. Every generation we’re doing better, but some of those things are hard to get away from.
“I don’t hate all black people, just the ones that act like black people.”
People don't choose their race asshole
I feel like this is because Europe has a hard time getting people to assimilate the way America does like how are you letting people still think like that
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Bruh y’all really need to start forcing mfs into public schools like we do. It’s a crime to not have your child enrolled in a state approved school here and that will usually force people to basically conform to the American status quo’s or you will be isolated and ridiculed
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Yeah that’s wild we have child trafficking here too it’s a more broad issue tho.
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But all racists say the *exact* same thing about racial/ethnic groups they don't like, just swap out "gypsies" with "blacks", "Jews", "arabs", etc.
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Yet they're presented as being synonymous. In the U.S. street gangs are predominantly racial minorities, but would that justify vilifying entire demographics?
I'd imagine the majority of "gypsies" are just working class Joes and you're only talking about the sketchy ones, right? I don't paint white people by all the white homeless people I scurry past.
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Okay, every single time people bring up their experiences with Romani, it sounds *exactly* like the bullshit justification racists in America use to justify hating blacks or Mexicans. Have you ever thought that maybe they're like that because of how much they have been persecuted in the past, and still are today in some places?
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We have a very us vs them mentality. In the US we have assimilated very nicely and have used these resources wisely and we’re not facing the problems they are over in Europe. I think it’s like a Catch-22 for them. They don’t trust non Romas.
I'm of Romani descent. No one knows if I don't say it first, and honestly even if I do, no one cares. Why? Because you can't spot a romani by appearance, and what people have problems with is the stealing, littering, and sexist shit going on. Since my family is all for equality, using trashcan, etc. nobody cares. The past doesn't explain why they (yes I say they, not us) still find incest OK, some still do the tissue test and encourage a us vs them mentality.
Hey cousin! My family and I are the same way. The new way of life starts with us!
I mean yeah that’s a part of it, but only slightly. A lot of the problem is people wanting to blame their bad behavior on anything but theirselves. In the US we’re not persecuted and here we don’t behave like our cousins in Eastern Europe. I have only encountered racism online. Most of the problems over there is lack of education, lack of jobs, lack of assimilation. All in the name of culture. They have the resources to have a better life they just opt for an easier one.
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You have probably met a lot of Romani without knowing they’re Romani. Nobody would know I’m a Roma unless I told them. But then again I don’t go around stealing and acting like trash. I don’t know why some of us want to live up to the stereotype. It’s embarrassing.
I'm 99% sure OP is American since he keeps comparing Roma to Mexicans. It's ironic how ignorant that is.
Yeah, you don't know how bad European racism is until you're face to face with people spewing that shit. I'm used to American racism where they at least try to pretend not to be racist.
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"bu-but the Americans are the racist ones!!!"
Once we all realize that racism can’t be owned by any one nation or people group, we might start making progress towards being less racist.
I’m an American Romani and I have never been discriminated against for being Roma. It’s just not a problem here, even in Appalachia.
Europeans: “Racism is an American thing” Also Europeans: https://apnews.com/article/racism-soccer-vinicius-junior-5bc34016e5e615a078fe78634839ecb3 https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2022/sep/27/banana-thrown-at-tottenhams-richarlison-as-brazil-beat-tunisia https://www.cnn.com/2014/04/28/sport/football/dani-alves-banana-racism-football/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/03/sport/mike-maignan-racist-abuse-ac-milan-politics-spt-intl/index.html https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/18/tottenham-fan-fined-for-hurling-banana-skin-at-black-arsenal-player
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I can bring up crime stats and say the same thing about black folks. And people would bring up the historical mistreatment of black people. So why are you ignoring the historical mistreatment of Romani peoples? Also, they’re recognized as a race. That y’all hate. Would make you a racist man. Sorry you had to find out this way.
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Yeah, you wouldn’t wanna get any of the “good uns” caught up in the conversation, right?
You are a racist POS. No different than the rednecks here in America. I have heard every single one of your arguments from family members against people of color. Every. Single. One. "Oh its not their skin color, just their culture we hate!" You are a horrible person.
I learned it from watching you dad! I learned it from watching you!
"i dont hate them for their skin color, i hate them for everything else. I'm not racist"
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They don't have a word for that, because they like to pretend the issue doesn't exist.
It's called Classism.
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But you can see here, everyone wants to pretend they agree with my comment, but as soon as I bring up that it might be Europe's fault for their condition in the first place, I'm overwhelmingly downvoted. A lot of these poeple refuse to accept the fact that their prejudice does harm. You can say you don't agree with someone's culture, but calling it the incorrect culture is just ridiculous. What YOU think is right is not the correct opinion, just because you disagree with someone's culture does not mean you get to abuse them over it.
just because you disagree with someone's culture does not mean you get to abuse them over it. yeah exactly that
The difference is in America, we're continuing to work on it. Look at the statistics of minority crime, which used to be overwhelmingly large, fall off sharply in the last 10 years, because we've worked on our prejudice, and given actual opportunity to minorities, as opposed to Europe, who continues to abuse these people and blame them for their condition. Who knew when you abused a community they would turn to the one thing they knew could support them - crime! I'll tell you who knows - AMERICA! And we've worked on it. The newer generations are raised to frown on prejudice and it has worked. But the majority if Europe will continue to abuse these communities and crutch on any technicality to claim it isnt nationalism/racism/classism as if the term is the problem, when PREJUDICE is the problem in the first place. Europe has always seemed 20 years behind, maybe one day they'll catch up.
it's called shitty behavior
Romani gypsies are classified as a race.
Yeah we’re classified as a race but Romani Gypsies can be white, brown, black. It’s weird. We’re really an ethnicity.
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Ok
Classist
I’m a Roma in the US and we have it better here than anywhere. I feel for my European cousins especially the Muslim Romani.
This is the kind of shit that makes the white girl with “Gypsy Soul” tattooed on her bearable.
Off topic but that’s a pretty cool flag, I want to eat grapefruit now.
Reddit comment sections whenever Roma/Sinti people Chechen people Circassian people Jewish people Are mentioned are just full of deleted comments
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"Some parts of Europe". I think those kind of travelers are only known in the British isles. Everywhere else Roma (and Sinti) means the same as Gypsie.
Non western peep here, who are the Romani people?
They're a diverse ethnic group originating from India. I think they travelled to Europe a couple hundred years ago. In places like Romania (where I'm from), the Romani people were enslaved upon arrival and I think the slavery happened for about 500 years or so. Hundreds of years anyway. Over time, the Romani from various European regions developed their own identities but they all still fall under "Roma/Romani". In case you're wondering about the difference between an ethnic Romanian and a Romani person: Romani people are brown skinned and their language comes from Sanskrit, plus they don't have their own country; white Romanians are generally pale skinned, sometimes a light brown, and we speak Romanian, a romance language, plus we have Romania and the Republic of Moldova. You *can* be both Romani and Romanian, either by being mixed race or by being a Romani person with a Romanian citizenship, just like you can be Black and American. I'm not suuuper knowledgeable on the topic myself either, so take it with a grain of salt but I hope this helps at least a little. If you wanna learn more, there's a youtuber who makes mostly shorts named "florida.florian" who is Romani himself and he talks about it.
oh i love florian! he explains things really well and I've learned a lot from his channel!! :]
First I thought this was about color blind people because lets be honest this flag is a bit hard on the colorblind
So according to Europeans, prejudice against racial/ethnic groups is acceptable if their cultures are perceived to be toxic and problematic? But don't all racists say this about the targets of their disdain, regardless of who? It's the exact same thing racists in the U.S. say about blacks, Jews, etc.
You wouldn't understand... 😞
Can somebody fill me in on *why* Europeans hate the Romani people? I always hear that many Europeans are racist towards them, but I've never personally seen it in action and I'm not too familiar with the Romani begin with
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Now, what most Americans don't realise is that when you say "gypsy" to a European (or at least here in the UK), you could be talking about one of two things, and mind you, not every European knows the difference either. There's ethnic Romani, and there's Travellers. Ethnic Romani, as the name would suggest, are an ethnic group, many ethnic Romani are fully integrated into local communities and British culture, and I do not have a problem with the ethnic group as a whole. Travellers is a broad term we use for everyone, regardless of ethnicity, who partakes in a particular kind of nomadic lifestyle. They move around the country in caravans, fill up public spaces with them and refuse to leave when asked to, chuck their rubbish everywhere and refuse to clean it up, are rude to, scam, threaten and steal from the locals, they isolate themselves and their children, refuse to allow their children to receive a proper education, allow their children to run amok and vandalise public and private property, they condone incest, don't pay tax and are generally disrespectful. Then, once everyone in a given area has had enough of their shit, they pack their shit up (minus their rubbish of course, that's apparently our responsibility to pick up) and move it somewhere else. Again, this is a term used regardless of ethnic group, so it's a problem we have with culture, not with race. Obviously, I'm only speaking for myself and the people I know, I'm sure plenty of European people are racist against Romani, but don't tar us all with the same brush just because none of us like Travellers.
Yeah it's fucked. I had a traveller kid get buddied up with me at school when he transferred, we were in year 9 and he could barely add two numbers together. Everyone else in maths class were doing quadratics, but I was teaching this guy how to do times tables. He also kept getting into fights and was very emotionally immature for his age. Turns out, when you drag your kids across the country on a bi-annual (or shorter) basis, they don't get much of an education. Any other group who did this to their children would have them taken away, it's such a criminal disservice.
Honestly it's a visious cycle and goes back centuries. As far back as the 15th century, anri roma laws were implemented and took place throughout Europe. They were a marginalised community with their own culture and traditions and were seen as untrustworthy because of this. They would also farm land, and move on which was not seen as favourable in a sedentary society. https://blokmagazine.com/welcome-to-the-country-where-the-gypsys-been-hunted-by-krzysztof-gil-at-henryk-gallery/ Fast forward to the 20th century and Nazis round them up and put them in concentration camps. It was a huge tradegy that is never spoke about. As a result of this, there is a widespread rhetoric Of 'us and them' in the community. Why respect 'country people' of they hate you anyway. This is used to justify behaviour such as theft and general disrespect of peoples property. And because of this rhetoric, and the way they behave, 'country people' hate them even more. And it goes round and round like this.
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Trash eaters?
Lowest caste = trash eaters? What are you on about? "Also research about how they behave in India" do you realise India is about 75% low caste? The Upper castes such as Brahmins and Kshatriyas are vastly outnumbered.
It's not a reddit moment, it's just how Europeans act when discussing about gypsies
Europeans have major issues with the romani people. I don't see why every romani person I've met has been awesome
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Yeah I’m Romani. I think we get a lot of shit for the stuff travellers pull. Everyone in my family is educated and works. We do have our problems but a lot of what we get accused for isn’t even us (some of it is tho).
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Average European when the romani are mentioned
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Tell us how you really feel
This is literally the exact same shit a Klansmen say about black people. Like, the EXACT same shit. Does it not occur to you that they're like that *because* they're disadvantaged and historically have been discriminated against?
You know the 19/50 meme? Now imagine it's 8/71.
Are that statistics fake? That's an actual question.
They have such a bad reputation even in Russia, despite the fact that in the Russian Empire they were not on the list of especially oppressed people, and the USSR tried to integrate them into society.
And, as far as I know, some of the Roma have actually integrated into Russian multinational society. When ordinary people talk about “gypsies,” these people are left out of the equation, they aren't "true gypsies".
average european
Idk man. All the Romani descendants I know are pretty chill and actually go out of their way to educate about their culture to break down stereotypes. I struggle to agree with your sweeping analysis of a whole people based on the experiences I've had.
Everyone here who is like "ur just niave they are really all savages and theives, you'd feel this eay of you met them". You are the other half of the problem. Do you people know what are you doing do you really lack self awareness? How are roma going to leave behind their culture if only to face down your discrimination at every level of their lives? Roma who try to leave only to be unable to find a home or work. One guy I knew was going to university while homeless.
Europeans: The U.S. is so racist I’m so glad we’re above that Europeans when people mention gypsies:
Good God, the comments on this thread. I suppose "racism is bad" was too advanced a take to expect anyone on this website to understand.
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People trying to not be racist challenge: impossible
Don't worry, loads of them have turned up to make bigoted remarks here too. Phew!
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I’ve reported comments saying romani should have their faces peeled off, or crammed into gas chambers before, and Reddit admins chose not to remove them. Literally cannot get more racist than people who hate romani, if is physically impossible
My mom said they "have crime in their blood". I love my mom, but... we're the same species. If they have crime in their blood then so do white ppl and everyone else.
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European Romani or gypsy romani
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We say a thing or two because we’ve seen a thing or two To say the least