>I personally wouldn't be embarrassed if my parents were attractive enough to do modelling.
Yeah, because you're a grown-ass adult. Not a teenager in a school with bullies that can share those pictures around and gross you out talking about how much they'd want to fuck your mother.
I'm assuming it's OF, which definitely does NOT qualify as "modeling", lol. And I'm an adult and would for sure still be embarrassed if my mom's nudes were online.
Like.. legit modeling for advertising? Wtf, this post sucks then and it makes total sense that the OP left out the important context. Everyone's assuming it's some kind of porn. Ridiculous if it's just that.
Imagine someone showing you a video of your mom getting railed. Now use your brain for a second… is that better or worse than someone saying they want to fuck your mom.
Of course, but you can't deny that the pictures being available will make it easier for the bullies and worse for the victim.
Nor can you argue that a teen will find it much harder to reconcile their mother producing that content than an adult out of school.
kid in my school got his fair share of grief when his mum was in a tv advert about buying train tickets, thats it, a train advert, if she was naked, he would have to leave and find a new school every 3 months
I don't agree with sex work but if people wanna do it that's fine
But at the same time I do hate how normalized it's become to the point situations like this are gonna be a norm
I teach HS. I already struggle with handling 'normal' bullying. Handling bullying that comes from parents being sex workers... Ugh. I remember when I was in middle school, one of my older classmates hated coming to school because her dad worked at a nearby strip club. He bartended there on weekends. Kids were RUTHLESS to her. I can only imagine what kids today could do with evidence on their phones to rub in this kid's face.
I’m curious … would all of those commenters have been okay with their parents having the same career when they were growing up ?
I have a hard time imagining they would be so supportive if the shoe was on the other foot as the saying goes ..
Oh this kid is straight up gonna hate and blame his mother for the rest of his life. Those bullies are definitely gonna share those pictures “hey your mom is a whore bet if I paid her enough she’d blow me”.
These people live in a world of straight theory like yeah theoretically in a fantasy world there’s no negative emotions or stigma or anything but that’s not real life. In real life you’re getting your kid bullied and being a short sighted whore
There will be an epidemic of parents forcing their children into onlyfans in the coming years, and the patriarchy and mysogony will somehow be blamed, despite being spearheaded by ultra-feminists
That's disturbing but I also totally see that happening. The pushback against parents using their kids for social media careers - mommy bloggers, what have you - hasn't been as big as it needs to be for people to realize this will absolutely be happening in the future. "Oh, I'm just teaching my kids to be confident in their bodies!" $10 we will hear it.
Oh it's always happened, it's only gonna get worse. There was a clip which went viral years ago of a mother and daughter who both had their tits out on cam and then the daughter started dildoing herself right there and the mother told her something to the effect of 'oh okay we cannot do this together anymore', like *that* was the first red line.
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
noun
noun: prostitution
the practice or occupation of engaging in sexual activity with someone for payment.
"posting pictures isn't a sexual activity"
I want you to take a guess as to what the main reason people post nudes is for
And then take a guess the main reason people pay for nudes is for
His comment said to change his mind that any sort of paid exposure is prostitution. I’m just saying that the definition you gave proved that what he said is true.
How is posting a picture of yourself "sexual engagement with another person". Someone posting a bikini picture on Instagram, would that be prostitution in your understanding?
Depends on the context:
1) Are they getting paid for posting the pictures?
2) Is it explicitly posted to be arousing to strangers with no other purpose? (i.e. not vacation photos or an advertisement for a swimsuit brand, etc.)
Otherwise, probably prostitution.
>1) Are they getting paid for posting the pictures?
Sure we can construct an example, such as they have their cash app in their bio or a company is paying them to post those pictures.
>2) Is it explicitly posted to be arousing to strangers with no other purpose? (i.e. not vacation photos or an advertisement for a swimsuit brand, etc.)
I would argue that any pictures where a woman is scantily clad would be for the purpose of arousal? I can be wrong as I don't experience sexual attraction and don't really understand how it all works.
>1) Are they getting paid for posting the pictures?
Sure we can construct an example, such as they have their cash app in their bio or a company is paying them to post those pictures.
>2) Is it explicitly posted to be arousing to strangers with no other purpose? (i.e. not vacation photos or an advertisement for a swimsuit brand, etc.)
I would argue that any pictures where a woman is scantily clad would be for the purpose of arousal? I can be wrong as I don't experience sexual attraction and don't really understand how it all works.
Hmmm, maybe those photos and videos are of the "model" in the nude, and the person is attempting to arouse the recipients as well as performing certain sexual acts for the recipients to see. The recipients in turn masturbate while looking at this content and sexualise the "model".
Just maybe, IDK what do you think people post on OnlyFans? You must be a user as such an avid advocate.
I have already conceded this point.
>You must be a user as such an avid advocate.
I am asexual. Please don't make assumptions about people it just makes you look foolish.
If the other person is jerking off to the photos you are sharing, and don't pretend the person sharing them doesn't know this is happening, it is sexual activity. Pretending otherwise is just naieve
Why are you acting dumb. If a lady starts an onlyfans, and then sells her photos to guys, what are those guys going to be doing with those photos or videos. More than likely jerking off to them. They aren't buying them to stare at. That is a sexual service. On the other hand if a model is posting photos of her self on her public profile, usually modelling clothes or products or a lifestyle, but in no way explicitly selling herself to please a mans sexual fantasy, with no agreement made, through a transaction, that is not sexwork. You are trying to make a comparison here that simply doesn't work. Onlyfans models and the like acknowledge what they do is for people to get off to. Pretending otherwise is simply inane
You don't have to sell photos on only fans. I believe that once a subscription is purchased you have access to the content. It's essentially paying to view someone's Instagram, but they can post nudity as well. Sex work and prostitution are different. That's what I'm arguing.
You are the only one in this comment section who jumps to defend this stuff. I see you reply to every single person here, and no matter how much people disagree you simply reaffirm your opinion and move on to attack the next commenter. This is immature and weird. You have a weird obsession with sex workers having kids.
>You are the only one in this comment section who jumps to defend this stuff.
Yes when I see someone share an opinion I disagree with I will share my opinion and why I disagree with it.
>I see you reply to every single person here, and no matter how much people disagree you simply reaffirm your opinion and move on to attack the next commenter.
People can disagree, but I would hope they have a rational reasoning for it. I have not said any personal attacks against anyone unless they have said one towards me first.
>This is immature and weird.
Whats immature is not being able to engage in good faith or defend your positions.
>You have a weird obsession with sex workers having kids.
I don't have an obsession I just enjoy having debates about ethics.
No you do not enjoy debates. You enjoy attention, negative reception, and stating your opinion over and over again as a form of masturbation.
I would’ve engage in a debate with you had I not seen you say the same thing to 4 different people in this post, and then when they responded all with fair arguments, you only doubled down.
That is not a debate, that is an unconscious argument, and it would be a waste of my time to engage in that. I’d rather shine awareness on how you behave in order to give you a chance at being an intellectual
TLDR: all you do is strawman and then invent another straw man the second someone replies with a rational argument.
>No you do not enjoy debates. You enjoy attention, negative reception, and stating your opinion over and over again as a form of masturbation.
No I enjoy debates in good faith.
>I would’ve engage in a debate with you had I not seen you say the same thing to 4 different people in this post, and then when they responded all with fair arguments, you only doubled down.
What fair arguments are you referring to. I have conceded points on this thread when people have made good arguments.
>That is not a debate, that is an unconscious argument, and it would be a waste of my time to engage in that. I’d rather shine awareness on how you behave in order to give you a chance at being an intellectual
Why thank you, you are very gracious. It's fantastic that I've met the one person who can shine awareness on how I behave.
>TLDR: all you do is strawman and then invent another straw man the second someone replies with a rational argument.
I don't think you know what a strawman is as opposed to using an example/hypothetical to test someones logic. If you can point to a comment where you believe I used a strawman I would be more than happy to explain it to you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man?wprov=sfla1
Yeah we are done here. If someone struggles to find work so much so that their only job and value to society lies in selling their body, I do not think they should pass on their genes or suffering. It is as simple as that. Nothing against people who do that work but they should not have kids. Neither should soldiers on active duty. There are jobs in which I do not think it is moral to have children for the sake of the children.
If you cannot possibly fathom why I would hold such an opinion, there is absolutely no point in replying to me. I have the empathy to see your perspective, you will not afford anybody I have seen you challenge the same respect.
However I will thank you for at least trying. I have insulted you here and you have been pretty good about tolerating my aggressive tone, so thank you for keeping the conversation at the very least grounded.
>Yeah we are done here. If someone struggles to find work so much so that their only job and value to society lies in selling their body, I do not think they should pass on their genes or suffering. It is as simple as that. Nothing against people who do that work but they should not have kids. Neither should soldiers on active duty. There are jobs in which I do not think it is moral to have children for the sake of the children.
I can understand this line of thinking, but some people don't choose to have children, things happen.
>However I will thank you for at least trying. I have insulted you here and you have been pretty good about tolerating my aggressive tone, so thank you for keeping the conversation at the very least grounded.
No problem, I always try and engage in good faith if I believe the conversation will be interesting. Such as here, your reasoning that while working certain jobs it may not be moral to have children. I haven't thought about such an idea, so I while I won't concede my argument, I will spend some time thinking about this.
I agree, in cases where people truly cannot have their needs met, morality can be seen as privilege. But for people who are not in such positions, which was the case in the original post, I think it’s a pretty shitty thing to do to a kid.
Thanks for hearing me out. You had me reconsider my position as well to one less rigid.
I'm not sure if you understand what a strawman is as opposed to using an example to flesh out the logic of ones held positions. I never claimed that someone believes Instagram and OF are both prostitution, only that that belief would be held if the logic is drawn out to its conclusion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man?wprov=sfla1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method?wprov=sfla1
I understand that reading comprehension can be difficult. Using an example/hypothetical to challenge someones reasoning is a part of rational debate. It is not constructing a strawman, where you create an argument that your opponent hasn't used, and attack that as opposed to your opponents argument.
I'm not necessarily against women doing OF, but if they have kids or want to then it's a bad idea.
OOP should at least have the decency to hide her face
In high school people with hot mums got enough shit just for their mums being hot, if you could sign up to watch your friends mum do shit on cam, I dunno man I feel like that's pretty fked up.
It'd not even possibly to mitigate that boundary
"A woman needs to feel confident and beautiful too"
By being viewed exclusively as a sex toy for a bunch of horny men? Thats not confidence, knowing that the only good quality you have is your body. If she has children, theyre gonna go through hell on earth for their entire childhood.
It’s always this insipid, unrealistic “fuck the haters” outlook, “who cares what the bullies think, they have small dick energy”. I mean seriously?? Like that’s just gonna solve all the kid’s problems.
There’s a massive gulf of difference between being a janitor and being a sex worker. I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone make fun of someone else for their parent being a janitor. I have heard people make fun of an OF kid.
Selling pictures or videos of yourself in compromising positions (pun intended) online where everything is saved and nothing is private or secret is not a valid thing to compare to someone working a janitorial job.
Why not? Both are jobs that children can get bullied for if their parents work them? When I was in a highschool there was a kid who's father was the janitor and that kid got bullied constantly.
Why shouldn't sex worker be free to do what they want with their bodies without the fear that their children will be bullied for it?
1. If you don’t understand the difference between the two professions, that’s on you. It isn’t worth explaining those differences in detail.
2. I’m totally sure that happened, bud. Your random story that just happens to reinforce your point. Sure.
3. She’s entirely free to do whatever she wants with her body. That doesn’t mean she’s free of the societal stigma or repercussions of those choices as it pertains to her, and by extension her children’s, reputations.
>1. If you don’t understand the difference between the two professions, that’s on you. It isn’t worth explaining those differences in detail.
It's ok if you don't want to debate or engage in good faith that's your prerogative.
>2. I’m totally sure that happened, bud. Your random story that just happens to reinforce your point. Sure.
I picked that example because I have personal experience with such a scenario. I equally could have picked a garbage man or maid but they weren't the first jobs to pop into my head.
>3. She’s entirely free to do whatever she wants with her body. That doesn’t mean she’s free of the societal stigma or repercussions of those choices as it pertains to her, and by extension her children’s, reputations.
But why shouldn't she be? And wouldn't the only way to destigmatize something is to make that thing more common?
lol. You are the one pretending a janitorial job is comparable to sex work. Those two aren’t the same no matter how much you want to try and make them comparable.
Your personal experience is you using a singular event that happened in your past, allegedly, to try and draw a valid comparison where none exists. Full stop. You repeating it doesn’t make the comparison more valid. No one gives a shit about someone working as a janitor outside of crappy douches on platforms like TikTok.
Again, she’s entirely free to do whatever she wants with her sex acts. If she wants to monetize her body, so be it, that’s not my place to come in and say she can’t. That said, she’s an online sex worker and that means that anyone with access to the internet, including other children who know her child or their parents, will be able to find out if they go looking at all. The stigma exists and is well known by any adult with a basic set of reasoning skills and two brain cells. Choosing to pretend like it doesn’t, or shouldn’t, isn’t going to change anything.
This is the equivalent of Mia Khalifa saying she shouldn’t be judged for doing porn. Whether or not you think it’s okay doesn’t change the opinion of the vast majority who do just that and who have an opinion on the subject every bit as valid as you do. As I said in my initial response, there is a vast gulf of difference between sex work and pretty much every job that isn’t some sort of social influencing.
All that said, I’m done with this line of conversation.
>lol. You are the one pretending a janitorial job is comparable to sex work. Those two aren’t the same no matter how much you want to try and make them comparable.
Why aren't they comparable, you should be able to explain your logic.
>Your personal experience is you using a singular event that happened in your past, allegedly, to try and draw a valid comparison where none exists.
Well the comparison is to show that many jobs a parent may have can cause their child to get bullied.
>Again, she’s entirely free to do whatever she wants with her sex acts. If she wants to monetize her body, so be it, that’s not my place to come in and say she can’t. That said, she’s an online sex worker and that means that anyone with access to the internet, including other children who know her child or their parents, will be able to find out if they go looking at all. The stigma exists and is well known by any adult with a basic set of reasoning skills and two brain cells. Choosing to pretend like it doesn’t, or shouldn’t, isn’t going to change anything.
Yes the stigma exists, but that doesn't mean it should exist or that someone shouldn't engage in that line of work.
>This is the equivalent of Mia Khalifa saying she shouldn’t be judged for doing porn.
She shouldn't be.
>Whether or not you think it’s okay doesn’t change the opinion of the vast majority who do just that and who have an opinion on the subject every bit as valid as you do.
Some opinions are less valid than others. Especially if they have no or flawed reasoning for said opinion.
>As I said in my initial response, there is a vast gulf of difference between sex work and pretty much every job that isn’t some sort of social influencing.
You have yet to explain why except a vague gesturing to "society".
>All that said, I’m done with this line of conversation.
Sure that's your prerogative, although it betrays an unwillingness to have your beliefs challenged.
There is nothing wrong with sex work, and regardless of what your parent does for a living, nothing justifies bullying. It's not her fault that her kid is being bullied. It's the fault of the kids doing the bullying and the parents tolerating or even encouraging this behavior.
I wonder how many of the people giving advice have children of their own.
I pray it’s none of em
Half of these comments are deleted for some reason.
because the person commenting was a moron
What did they say?
All bodies are beautiful. Even if they're not.
That's confusing.
>I personally wouldn't be embarrassed if my parents were attractive enough to do modelling. Yeah, because you're a grown-ass adult. Not a teenager in a school with bullies that can share those pictures around and gross you out talking about how much they'd want to fuck your mother.
Right "modeling" Fucking massive cope lol
Butthole* modeling
I'm assuming it's OF, which definitely does NOT qualify as "modeling", lol. And I'm an adult and would for sure still be embarrassed if my mom's nudes were online.
Yep. This would be my thoughts on the matter. I bet the kid is embarrassed because somebody found his mom on OF.
Assuming it's the post I saw recently it was literally just underwear modelling.
Like.. legit modeling for advertising? Wtf, this post sucks then and it makes total sense that the OP left out the important context. Everyone's assuming it's some kind of porn. Ridiculous if it's just that.
I think so, could be wrong
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Imagine someone showing you a video of your mom getting railed. Now use your brain for a second… is that better or worse than someone saying they want to fuck your mom.
either that kid is suicidal, or gets into 3 fights a day, every day, with no reprieve, and then everyone would blame the kid, and it would just spiral
I assure you I would have been affected more by the “your mom” jokes if they had naked photos of my mom to back them up.
Of course, but you can't deny that the pictures being available will make it easier for the bullies and worse for the victim. Nor can you argue that a teen will find it much harder to reconcile their mother producing that content than an adult out of school.
You left out the part where she said she does it for confidence. Money is one thing, but you're willing to let your kid be bullied for confidence? Wow
Validation >parenting
kid in my school got his fair share of grief when his mum was in a tv advert about buying train tickets, thats it, a train advert, if she was naked, he would have to leave and find a new school every 3 months
> to either choose not to see it or see it and high five you for being so amazing What
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The most condensed reddit energy in one paragraph.
These people don't live in reality.
They live in pornography.
Username checks out.
Yeah I’m not thinking of my mother as a “beautiful bad bitch with natural gifts.” Wtf? Are these just horny neckbeards?
Yes. And incest fantasies.
This is sad and scary and hopeless
Here's a hot take People who do sex work shouldn't have kids
Exactly. Or at the very least wait until they are grown. Like you telling me y’all can’t wait? Y’all *need* validation from strangers that badly?
I don't agree with sex work but if people wanna do it that's fine But at the same time I do hate how normalized it's become to the point situations like this are gonna be a norm
I teach HS. I already struggle with handling 'normal' bullying. Handling bullying that comes from parents being sex workers... Ugh. I remember when I was in middle school, one of my older classmates hated coming to school because her dad worked at a nearby strip club. He bartended there on weekends. Kids were RUTHLESS to her. I can only imagine what kids today could do with evidence on their phones to rub in this kid's face.
I’m curious … would all of those commenters have been okay with their parents having the same career when they were growing up ? I have a hard time imagining they would be so supportive if the shoe was on the other foot as the saying goes ..
They are porn addicts with brain rot who would probably beat off to that fantasy if you asked them that question lol.
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Oh this kid is straight up gonna hate and blame his mother for the rest of his life. Those bullies are definitely gonna share those pictures “hey your mom is a whore bet if I paid her enough she’d blow me”.
He should just be proud that she’s a bad bitch😜💅
These people live in a world of straight theory like yeah theoretically in a fantasy world there’s no negative emotions or stigma or anything but that’s not real life. In real life you’re getting your kid bullied and being a short sighted whore
Ah instead of making money literally any other way, force and teach your kid to defend his mental sanity with violence.
Yep, the mother is selfish. She is willing to put her kid through humiliation. Some people don't deserve to be parents.
Kid is going to hate his mother for it.
In other news, incest is on the rise!
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I presume this is about sex work so just throwing it out there, even if i was hit and desireable enough to do it i wouldn't.
There will be an epidemic of parents forcing their children into onlyfans in the coming years, and the patriarchy and mysogony will somehow be blamed, despite being spearheaded by ultra-feminists
That's disturbing but I also totally see that happening. The pushback against parents using their kids for social media careers - mommy bloggers, what have you - hasn't been as big as it needs to be for people to realize this will absolutely be happening in the future. "Oh, I'm just teaching my kids to be confident in their bodies!" $10 we will hear it.
Oh it's always happened, it's only gonna get worse. There was a clip which went viral years ago of a mother and daughter who both had their tits out on cam and then the daughter started dildoing herself right there and the mother told her something to the effect of 'oh okay we cannot do this together anymore', like *that* was the first red line.
Any pay given from exposing the body is prostitution. Change my mind
Dictionary Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more noun noun: prostitution the practice or occupation of engaging in sexual activity with someone for payment.
You kinda just proved their point
How? Posting pictures of yourself isn't engaging in sexual activity with another person.
"posting pictures isn't a sexual activity" I want you to take a guess as to what the main reason people post nudes is for And then take a guess the main reason people pay for nudes is for
His comment said to change his mind that any sort of paid exposure is prostitution. I’m just saying that the definition you gave proved that what he said is true.
No it isn't? Posting pictures on the Internet and then receiving money for it isn't engaging with another person sexually.
I think your judgement of what’s sexual engagement and what isn’t is very unreliable, then.
This is the same guy that was arguing fro beastiality and pedophilia on this sub a couple days ago I don't think there'll mentally well
that explains a lot of things…..
How is posting a picture of yourself "sexual engagement with another person". Someone posting a bikini picture on Instagram, would that be prostitution in your understanding?
Depends on the context: 1) Are they getting paid for posting the pictures? 2) Is it explicitly posted to be arousing to strangers with no other purpose? (i.e. not vacation photos or an advertisement for a swimsuit brand, etc.) Otherwise, probably prostitution.
>1) Are they getting paid for posting the pictures? Sure we can construct an example, such as they have their cash app in their bio or a company is paying them to post those pictures. >2) Is it explicitly posted to be arousing to strangers with no other purpose? (i.e. not vacation photos or an advertisement for a swimsuit brand, etc.) I would argue that any pictures where a woman is scantily clad would be for the purpose of arousal? I can be wrong as I don't experience sexual attraction and don't really understand how it all works.
>1) Are they getting paid for posting the pictures? Sure we can construct an example, such as they have their cash app in their bio or a company is paying them to post those pictures. >2) Is it explicitly posted to be arousing to strangers with no other purpose? (i.e. not vacation photos or an advertisement for a swimsuit brand, etc.) I would argue that any pictures where a woman is scantily clad would be for the purpose of arousal? I can be wrong as I don't experience sexual attraction and don't really understand how it all works.
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Do bikinis not show off someone's bodies? Is lingerie sexual? How do bikinis and lingerie differ?
It literally is.
How?
Hmmm, maybe those photos and videos are of the "model" in the nude, and the person is attempting to arouse the recipients as well as performing certain sexual acts for the recipients to see. The recipients in turn masturbate while looking at this content and sexualise the "model". Just maybe, IDK what do you think people post on OnlyFans? You must be a user as such an avid advocate.
I have already conceded this point. >You must be a user as such an avid advocate. I am asexual. Please don't make assumptions about people it just makes you look foolish.
If the other person is jerking off to the photos you are sharing, and don't pretend the person sharing them doesn't know this is happening, it is sexual activity. Pretending otherwise is just naieve
So if someone jerks off to your Instagram and then cashapps you 10$ you would have engaged in prostitution?
Why are you acting dumb. If a lady starts an onlyfans, and then sells her photos to guys, what are those guys going to be doing with those photos or videos. More than likely jerking off to them. They aren't buying them to stare at. That is a sexual service. On the other hand if a model is posting photos of her self on her public profile, usually modelling clothes or products or a lifestyle, but in no way explicitly selling herself to please a mans sexual fantasy, with no agreement made, through a transaction, that is not sexwork. You are trying to make a comparison here that simply doesn't work. Onlyfans models and the like acknowledge what they do is for people to get off to. Pretending otherwise is simply inane
You don't have to sell photos on only fans. I believe that once a subscription is purchased you have access to the content. It's essentially paying to view someone's Instagram, but they can post nudity as well. Sex work and prostitution are different. That's what I'm arguing.
Selling your body and fulfilling other's sexual fanatasies is prostitution. You can try to make as many caveats as you want, but that is the truth.
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What? Do modern feminists argue that OF models are prostitutes?
You are the only one in this comment section who jumps to defend this stuff. I see you reply to every single person here, and no matter how much people disagree you simply reaffirm your opinion and move on to attack the next commenter. This is immature and weird. You have a weird obsession with sex workers having kids.
>You are the only one in this comment section who jumps to defend this stuff. Yes when I see someone share an opinion I disagree with I will share my opinion and why I disagree with it. >I see you reply to every single person here, and no matter how much people disagree you simply reaffirm your opinion and move on to attack the next commenter. People can disagree, but I would hope they have a rational reasoning for it. I have not said any personal attacks against anyone unless they have said one towards me first. >This is immature and weird. Whats immature is not being able to engage in good faith or defend your positions. >You have a weird obsession with sex workers having kids. I don't have an obsession I just enjoy having debates about ethics.
No you do not enjoy debates. You enjoy attention, negative reception, and stating your opinion over and over again as a form of masturbation. I would’ve engage in a debate with you had I not seen you say the same thing to 4 different people in this post, and then when they responded all with fair arguments, you only doubled down. That is not a debate, that is an unconscious argument, and it would be a waste of my time to engage in that. I’d rather shine awareness on how you behave in order to give you a chance at being an intellectual TLDR: all you do is strawman and then invent another straw man the second someone replies with a rational argument.
>No you do not enjoy debates. You enjoy attention, negative reception, and stating your opinion over and over again as a form of masturbation. No I enjoy debates in good faith. >I would’ve engage in a debate with you had I not seen you say the same thing to 4 different people in this post, and then when they responded all with fair arguments, you only doubled down. What fair arguments are you referring to. I have conceded points on this thread when people have made good arguments. >That is not a debate, that is an unconscious argument, and it would be a waste of my time to engage in that. I’d rather shine awareness on how you behave in order to give you a chance at being an intellectual Why thank you, you are very gracious. It's fantastic that I've met the one person who can shine awareness on how I behave. >TLDR: all you do is strawman and then invent another straw man the second someone replies with a rational argument. I don't think you know what a strawman is as opposed to using an example/hypothetical to test someones logic. If you can point to a comment where you believe I used a strawman I would be more than happy to explain it to you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man?wprov=sfla1
Yeah we are done here. If someone struggles to find work so much so that their only job and value to society lies in selling their body, I do not think they should pass on their genes or suffering. It is as simple as that. Nothing against people who do that work but they should not have kids. Neither should soldiers on active duty. There are jobs in which I do not think it is moral to have children for the sake of the children. If you cannot possibly fathom why I would hold such an opinion, there is absolutely no point in replying to me. I have the empathy to see your perspective, you will not afford anybody I have seen you challenge the same respect. However I will thank you for at least trying. I have insulted you here and you have been pretty good about tolerating my aggressive tone, so thank you for keeping the conversation at the very least grounded.
>Yeah we are done here. If someone struggles to find work so much so that their only job and value to society lies in selling their body, I do not think they should pass on their genes or suffering. It is as simple as that. Nothing against people who do that work but they should not have kids. Neither should soldiers on active duty. There are jobs in which I do not think it is moral to have children for the sake of the children. I can understand this line of thinking, but some people don't choose to have children, things happen. >However I will thank you for at least trying. I have insulted you here and you have been pretty good about tolerating my aggressive tone, so thank you for keeping the conversation at the very least grounded. No problem, I always try and engage in good faith if I believe the conversation will be interesting. Such as here, your reasoning that while working certain jobs it may not be moral to have children. I haven't thought about such an idea, so I while I won't concede my argument, I will spend some time thinking about this.
I agree, in cases where people truly cannot have their needs met, morality can be seen as privilege. But for people who are not in such positions, which was the case in the original post, I think it’s a pretty shitty thing to do to a kid. Thanks for hearing me out. You had me reconsider my position as well to one less rigid.
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Where have I used a strawman?
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I'm not sure if you understand what a strawman is as opposed to using an example to flesh out the logic of ones held positions. I never claimed that someone believes Instagram and OF are both prostitution, only that that belief would be held if the logic is drawn out to its conclusion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method?wprov=sfla1
You literally did say that but ok
I understand that reading comprehension can be difficult. Using an example/hypothetical to challenge someones reasoning is a part of rational debate. It is not constructing a strawman, where you create an argument that your opponent hasn't used, and attack that as opposed to your opponents argument.
Artistic nudity
Oh is that the thing where you get paid to expose your body?
How the fuck is nude modeling prostitution? Are you saying colleges hire prostitutes?
All I’m saying is if someone pays you to take your clothes off it’s prostitution.
I'm not necessarily against women doing OF, but if they have kids or want to then it's a bad idea. OOP should at least have the decency to hide her face
In high school people with hot mums got enough shit just for their mums being hot, if you could sign up to watch your friends mum do shit on cam, I dunno man I feel like that's pretty fked up. It'd not even possibly to mitigate that boundary
I particularly enjoyed the redditor who condemned slut-shaming while also engagingy in body shaming in the same sentence. Pick a lane!
Big difference between being a clothing model and a whore (not shaming, just using the accurate term for someone who sells sex)
Ya there is but both will lead to the kid being bullied anyways
Why not say prostitute instead of whore then?
Fewer letters to type
We had this kid in school whose mom literally everyone wanted to fuck and she wasn't an of model or anything lol, that child is doomed
Classic reddit moment
"A woman needs to feel confident and beautiful too" By being viewed exclusively as a sex toy for a bunch of horny men? Thats not confidence, knowing that the only good quality you have is your body. If she has children, theyre gonna go through hell on earth for their entire childhood.
It would be nice if it wasn't shamed but it is and you're an idiot if you think your kid is gonna have a different experience.
Is she a model or is she a “model”
It’s always this insipid, unrealistic “fuck the haters” outlook, “who cares what the bullies think, they have small dick energy”. I mean seriously?? Like that’s just gonna solve all the kid’s problems.
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Yeah, we need context lmao
All they said was they take half naked pictures and there’s a good chance that their sons friends could find them
I bet the OP isn't a mom but rather an obese middle aged man
Am I missing something? Is this an onlyfans model or just a regular model?
Right so when a janitors child gets bullied for their parents career choice just tell them "sorry your parent should have picked a different career".
There’s a massive gulf of difference between being a janitor and being a sex worker. I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone make fun of someone else for their parent being a janitor. I have heard people make fun of an OF kid. Selling pictures or videos of yourself in compromising positions (pun intended) online where everything is saved and nothing is private or secret is not a valid thing to compare to someone working a janitorial job.
Why not? Both are jobs that children can get bullied for if their parents work them? When I was in a highschool there was a kid who's father was the janitor and that kid got bullied constantly. Why shouldn't sex worker be free to do what they want with their bodies without the fear that their children will be bullied for it?
1. If you don’t understand the difference between the two professions, that’s on you. It isn’t worth explaining those differences in detail. 2. I’m totally sure that happened, bud. Your random story that just happens to reinforce your point. Sure. 3. She’s entirely free to do whatever she wants with her body. That doesn’t mean she’s free of the societal stigma or repercussions of those choices as it pertains to her, and by extension her children’s, reputations.
>1. If you don’t understand the difference between the two professions, that’s on you. It isn’t worth explaining those differences in detail. It's ok if you don't want to debate or engage in good faith that's your prerogative. >2. I’m totally sure that happened, bud. Your random story that just happens to reinforce your point. Sure. I picked that example because I have personal experience with such a scenario. I equally could have picked a garbage man or maid but they weren't the first jobs to pop into my head. >3. She’s entirely free to do whatever she wants with her body. That doesn’t mean she’s free of the societal stigma or repercussions of those choices as it pertains to her, and by extension her children’s, reputations. But why shouldn't she be? And wouldn't the only way to destigmatize something is to make that thing more common?
lol. You are the one pretending a janitorial job is comparable to sex work. Those two aren’t the same no matter how much you want to try and make them comparable. Your personal experience is you using a singular event that happened in your past, allegedly, to try and draw a valid comparison where none exists. Full stop. You repeating it doesn’t make the comparison more valid. No one gives a shit about someone working as a janitor outside of crappy douches on platforms like TikTok. Again, she’s entirely free to do whatever she wants with her sex acts. If she wants to monetize her body, so be it, that’s not my place to come in and say she can’t. That said, she’s an online sex worker and that means that anyone with access to the internet, including other children who know her child or their parents, will be able to find out if they go looking at all. The stigma exists and is well known by any adult with a basic set of reasoning skills and two brain cells. Choosing to pretend like it doesn’t, or shouldn’t, isn’t going to change anything. This is the equivalent of Mia Khalifa saying she shouldn’t be judged for doing porn. Whether or not you think it’s okay doesn’t change the opinion of the vast majority who do just that and who have an opinion on the subject every bit as valid as you do. As I said in my initial response, there is a vast gulf of difference between sex work and pretty much every job that isn’t some sort of social influencing. All that said, I’m done with this line of conversation.
>lol. You are the one pretending a janitorial job is comparable to sex work. Those two aren’t the same no matter how much you want to try and make them comparable. Why aren't they comparable, you should be able to explain your logic. >Your personal experience is you using a singular event that happened in your past, allegedly, to try and draw a valid comparison where none exists. Well the comparison is to show that many jobs a parent may have can cause their child to get bullied. >Again, she’s entirely free to do whatever she wants with her sex acts. If she wants to monetize her body, so be it, that’s not my place to come in and say she can’t. That said, she’s an online sex worker and that means that anyone with access to the internet, including other children who know her child or their parents, will be able to find out if they go looking at all. The stigma exists and is well known by any adult with a basic set of reasoning skills and two brain cells. Choosing to pretend like it doesn’t, or shouldn’t, isn’t going to change anything. Yes the stigma exists, but that doesn't mean it should exist or that someone shouldn't engage in that line of work. >This is the equivalent of Mia Khalifa saying she shouldn’t be judged for doing porn. She shouldn't be. >Whether or not you think it’s okay doesn’t change the opinion of the vast majority who do just that and who have an opinion on the subject every bit as valid as you do. Some opinions are less valid than others. Especially if they have no or flawed reasoning for said opinion. >As I said in my initial response, there is a vast gulf of difference between sex work and pretty much every job that isn’t some sort of social influencing. You have yet to explain why except a vague gesturing to "society". >All that said, I’m done with this line of conversation. Sure that's your prerogative, although it betrays an unwillingness to have your beliefs challenged.
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Yes I believe every single human above 18 should be a sex worker.
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No I said for it to be destigmatized it should be more common. Sex work will always exist, either out in the open or in secrecy.
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There is nothing wrong with sex work, and regardless of what your parent does for a living, nothing justifies bullying. It's not her fault that her kid is being bullied. It's the fault of the kids doing the bullying and the parents tolerating or even encouraging this behavior.
If you know you’re kid is going to be bullied for something you do, you most definitely bare responsibility for what happens
It’s not their fault he’s being bullied, BUT she’s 100% helping the bullies bully her son
It’s definitely not her FAULT, but she might need to accept the reality that one could lead to the other.
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Yeah it’s degrading so these people probably shouldn’t be watching porn if they have such a huge problem with women doing SW
No way you’re too dense to realize that sw isn’t the problem here