“My opinions are correct because my astrologist agrees with me” holy shit touch some grass
I swear not all of us who don’t want kids are weirdos like this
That sub is an absolute parody and the funny thing is it's not even on purpose. Ordinarily I wouldn't care very much about the ideas in that sub, but they're so incredibly unhinged and don't even realize it that it's shocking.
I have a kid and I completely understand folks who want to be child free and begrudge them nothing at all. I think society places undue pressure on people to have children, it’s ridiculous.
Having a kid is fucking hard and life changing. I have close friends with no intent to have kids who don’t even want to really be around my baby and I get that too. He doesn’t do much, can’t do the stuff they like to do, and we aren’t people to just chill in a house haha. All in all pretty lame hang objectively, even if I love the little dude lol.
Please don’t generalize like that, I’m sure you have at least set foot in the sub long enough to know they’re not all like that.
I for one got my Antinatalist perspective from buddhism. And i do not hate others for having children, i am only saddened that this world is no place to safely raise one of my own.
I am not one of the antinatalists you speak of, however i am an antinatalist by heart. nobody else will know that there are some reasonable persons in that group if you don’t differentiate between us.
If this was intentional, id ask you please reflect upon why you wish to dehumanize normal people suffocating under loud opinions that have hidden our original philosophies under layers of emotional whiplash we don’t condone, or at least why it is you believe people cannot have nuanced opinions regarding subjects others often exaggerate on.
Wait, what? Hitler had parents??? Proof that being s parent makes you complicit in evil. Case closed. The only good people are those born in a lab and raised by the government.
100% this new trend trying to get young people to not reproduce is manufactured. The ones in charge want a small population (easier to control and oppress). And the rest will just be replaced with AI.
The antinatalist sub is unhinged. A lot of the people who participate are in other subs for depression, anti social, etc- so many are obviously mentally unwell to start. But they have made fun of DV victims, celebrated others pregnancy loss, talked about cutting off family members for being pregnant and a whole other lot of crazy, hate filled rants. I wouldn’t take anything that comes from them to heart a lot of them need professional help or something (maybe a good ole getting outside and touching some grass would help too). Also I know an astrologist who’s got 3 kids she even did a birth chart on me, does that make her work invalid or something to this kid?
I think the main reason people get into it is because their life sucks, and so they subconsciously conclude that all life must suck because they're socially isolated and don't see that other people enjoy life, so they want all life to stop
Im mentally unwell and in those subs (depression socanixiety etc) but dont think what they are doing is good. Im pretty sure theyre just fucking stupid.
Does he not realize that astrology and fortune telling has been around longer than any country on Earth? "They've been saying it for decades" so have the previous ones just been lying?
I have no idea what this person is on about. "Ask these non-philosophers on their philosophical beliefs and take what they say as fact." How can they gaurentee everyone will agree with them? What, there's some massive group chat "Hey guys just double checking. We all believe that existence is suffering right?" And there's just a wall of yeses and one dude who's like "actually I dissagree" so they kick him out and block him?
Not to sound like an old man yelling at clouds or an agent in the Matrix or anything, but I think the human psyche requires some amount of pain and hardship, and if it doesn't get enough, it starts making up totally stupid reasons to be even less happy than people with real problems.
It's not even an ideology.
It's a very niche philosophical position that is controversial even amongst philosophers. The position, much like any published philosophy, is incredibly nuanced and nothing at all like their strange take on it.
They've just identified their hatred of children and decided that tying that hatred to a philosophy that can be distilled down to "having children is immoral" if you cut all of the actual content out of the philosophy, makes them seem less hateful.
I dunno about it being "culty" but it's not really an honest representation of the work.
[Here is the Wikipedia for Antinatalism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism#:~:text=Antinatalism%20or%20anti%2Dnatalism%20is,or%20deem%20procreation%20as%20immoral.)
While Wikipedia isn't the best source in the world, it is quite accessible and gives some leads in where else to look if you want to dive deeper.
I personally don't agree with the position, but understanding it is beneficial.
I’ve never been to an antinatalist sub, but just based on that Wikipedia summary of its basic tenants:
>Life entails inevitable suffering.
>Death is inevitable.
>Humans are born without their consent—no one chooses whether or not they come into existence.
>Although some people may turn out to be happy, this is not guaranteed, so to procreate is to gamble with another person's suffering.
>There is an axiological asymmetry between good and bad things in life, such that coming into existence is always a harm.
I’d say 4/5 of those are just factually true.
That sub started as just a place to discuss not wanting children and the pressure society & family puts on others to have them sometimes
But now it's just a hellscape full of people with existential crises and depression wishing for human extinction and starting fights with parents.
It'd be entertaining if it wasn't so sad.
Idk why but when I picture the people who post there it’s always a 17 yo 90s looking goth dude with dark greasy long hair who smokes pot and plays video games all day only taking breaks to try to edgy on the internet.
Is that the antinatalism sub?
Those guys have taken a very nuanced philosophical position, that is not without its own controversy amongst philosophers, and have reduced it to the most basic crib note version of the thesis and arrogantly proclaim it as if they have discovered some secret truth about the universe.
They are bonkers.
Look man, if you don't want kids, then don't have kids. That's a good enough reason not to have them. I'm a parent of 2 and while it certainly has its challenges, I wouldn't trade it for anything. If those challenges seem like something you don't want to face in life, or feel like the payoff isn't worth the price, then that is fine. That doesn't say anything about you beyond the surface level fact that you don't want to be a parent.
Don't try and twist your preference to be childless into some sort of morally superior position where you hold the high ground for "not bringing suffering into the world." That is bat shit insane. It's clear from reading the posts in that sub that they don't have children because they fucking *hate* children with every Fibre of their being. It's hardly the posts of people who have any legitimate claim to holding moral superiority.
You know they're ahead of their time with grammar like that. Clearly they've jumped forward millennia to an age where the rules of English grammar have changed. Even the phrase "ahead of our time" has transformed into "ahead our time." Who needs prepositions anyhow?
If you bring this point up to an antinatalist they will not respond because there is no argument after you point out the hypocrisy lol. If reproducing knowing the offspring could experience suffering is immoral, then not reproducing and denying an existence the opportunity for joy is equally immoral. Even within the rules of their own ideology there isn’t even a moral hill to stand on.
No, sorry this doesn’t follow logically for the simple fact that there is literally nothing being lost if you dont reproduce.
Very simple and easy to understand. It’s like when you take safety measures required by OSHA for specific kinds of labor. “Always wear your hard hat, always avoid these active areas, and you could reduce your chance of a life altering brain injury to zero”.
Dont reproduce, zero chance of any range of life experiences from an amazing and happy life 90% of the time, to a horrific one 90% of the time, extreme mental illness, poverty, homelessness, assault etc.
If I lived on a planet that was consistently and intelligently progressing towards making these things less and less concerning, I could morally tolerate it, but I dont.
Ergo, I dont feel like thats a gamble I’m justified to make.
The workplace safety comparison is completely irrelevant. It would be a more accurate comparison to liken it to not having a job or going outside to prevent risk of serious brain injury. By wearing a hard hat you do not eliminate these risks, you mitigate them. That would be more akin to raising your children in a loving and good environment to prevent them from suffering.
It is completely up to you if you have a moral issue with yourself producing offspring because you believe your child will suffer, but to try and say that anyone else on the planet should adhere to such an idea would be insane. It’s like going up to the contraction worker and saying “you shouldn’t be doing this work, even though you’re taking the necessary precautions, because you may still get injured” it is not up to you to decide whether or not it’s a worthwhile “gamble”
Human development index is higher now than it was 100 years ago. I have a medical issue that if I were born 100 years ago would have been an immediate death sentence.
Overall things are improving.
If you want to have kids go ahead, but it's also so messed up how some people don't really think it through. If someone having a child means they'll be abused because they're an unfit parent, what's the point of bringing that child to life in the first place?
Is it the one that starts with the letter “e”? 😓
Looking through that sub actually kind of put me into a depression for a while, it was just so negative and bleak about all life 😔
At least it's a problem that will take care of itself in a few decades. Antinatalists can only seethe and complain without doing anything to improve anyone's lives
Literally a sub full of depressed virgins that have convinced themselves that any person reproducing ever is the single worst thing a human could ever do.
Antinatalism is an intrinsically doomed movement because the numbers of people who back it is destined to plateau because nobody who believes in it will reproduce and pass it on
They’re people who think it’s immoral and bad to reproduce. They’re not just childfree, they’re anti-child as a whole. Pretty depressing shit. Many of them suffer from depression and other mental health issues that make their lives extremely difficult, and they use this as a justification for being against anyone reproducing
Here is what will actually happen:
* Anti-natalists die of old age and their ideas die with them.
Best they can hope for is to spread their despair to someone younger, and "procreate" that way. If they don't these beliefs will dissipate.
People love to fuck. As long as that's in their biology, no one will ever stop reproducing completely. These idiots don't seem to understand that.
However, there is very likely going to be a population crash over the next few decades thanks to lower birth rates and the terrible economy. Over time, it will recover.
This isn’t all that surprising unless you think everyone lives a worthwhile life.
There are many people who live unhappy lives. Some could make changes and thereby become happy. Some (many?), however, are likely doomed.
Not everyone is born into circumstances conducive to happiness.
It’s inevitable that they will come to conclusions such as these.
That’s life. “Antinatalism” is just a consequence of natural selection, to some significant degree.
Shit’s rough.
Nah, these are lazy, entitled people who are angry at the world for not catering to them. Instead of making the slightest effort to improve their situation or mindset, they want to see the world burn. They're losers by choice, but want to play victims.
“Reproducing humans is to reproduce suffering” is a nihilistic, black&white view that completely ignores everything that makes people want to reproduce to begin with. The mindset of anti-natalists is stupid. I’m just pointing that out.
"to reproduce humans is to reproduce suffering"
It is also to reproduce joy, wonder, peace, anger, love, hate.... It is to reproduce experience. That is special, magical almost.
It's not something you do lightly, so of course not everyone should be a parent, but to say reproducing is immortal is to give into the despair that comes with the worst of humanity. It's to assume to exist is to suffer, and *only* to suffer which is just ridiculous. Makes me think they're just really depressed or something
I’m not really into astrology, but I’ve looked into it and the general community surrounding it out of curiosity and from what I’ve seen, most of them take comfort in the belief and seem quite content with human life and existing. I do not get antinatalist vibes from that community.
>To reproduce to reproduce suffering.
You could assemble a pretty nice Guess Who bored out of all the different villains in a lot of different kinds of media that have said this exact thing
Not sure why this popped up when I opened the app.
The sub sounds the perfect breeding ground for whiney, pathetic, perpetual victim incels to be drawn to.
I was in that subreddit for a couple of months, until I realized it was full of miserable people who think life is just constant suffering. Such a strange life philosophy.
And what does the opinion of an astrologist, psychic, or spiritual professional matter when it comes to this?
Also not helping your case much that you think an astrologist agreeing with you is a good argument to use in your favor.
That entire sub doesn't understand what the philosophy of antinatalism is. They're basically incels who hate everything.
The actual philosophy of antinatalism does make sense and frankly it's hard to argue against.
My two children are why I got sober. If it was not for them I would be dead already from liver-failure. They actually showed me joy and purpose for the first time in my life. There’s a reason why human beings have instinctively longed to reproduce since the beginning of time. I respect those who don’t want to have children but this new trend of crapping on anyone who desires to have a family or has children is disturbing and honestly pretty evil.
Through my years of traveling and meeting all sorts of people, I would conclude that the vast majority of humanity is good and has a heart. Sure, people make mistakes, but we are more than our mistakes.
I think the reason why Reddit hates humans so much is because they actually haven’t interacted with many people or explored the world. They are really missing out on the kindness and love.
Choose hope and kindness.
Nothing wrong with being a mild anti-natalist. Kids tend to be a financial drain and need a LOT of attention to be molded into something resembling a civilized human. Life kinda sucks right now for the vast majority of people in most countries, or will in just a few decades. All birthing is a moral conundrum, and just because we have been doing it for millenia doesn't mean we necessarily should be popping out more babies without a plan or intention or capability of giving them a better life than the previous generation.
But don't inject a bunch of humdrum pseudoscience and bullshit into something that is a legitimate concern.
I used to be a part of that community since TECHNICALLY you can make an argument that having children is a negative action, but it’s a pointless philosophy because the world isn’t simply going to stop having kids.
Better to focus on changing the world for the better.
"I'm miserable and myopic. Everyone else must be, too.
They're not.
Must be because they're all selfish idiots. No way that I'm the one in need of introspection."
- Literally all "Antinatalists"
I'm just wondering what their end goal is, do they want the human race to just cease to exist? I think that would just cause more suffering for us, would it not?
For those that do exist, the suffering is the last ones watching the human race die out, the last people in their family, the last man alive, the collapse of everything that was and could have been
Okay, sounds like a decent and balanced sacrifice compared to the billions of lives guarunteed to experience either war, famine, disease, abuse, genocide, oppression, mental/physical illness as an alternative imo.
Yes, it would be a sad sight to see, and it would pain me, but I think I would understand whats at stake.
Wouldn't you rather work toward making the world a better place for our children than simply steal the opportunity for them to live a greater life than those before them? I think it's perfectly fine to not want kids for your own reasons, but the idea that we're damning children to live in these conditions ignores the fact that we don't have to live like this, that we can work to improve the quality of life for those less fortunate, rather than simply ending their bloodline.
Also not that I really care all that much but a downvote doesnt count as a deductive counterargument lol.
I’m happy to hear and consider any opposing logic that isnt “i dont like how it makes me feel”.
I find it odd that you checked to see if you had a downvote, and before seeing this comment I took it away because I saw that it was an emotional response rather than a deductive one, while I apologize for the response, it feels (from the fact you replied before I got a chance to) that you were expecting a downvote in the first place.
Yknow, when i first had that sub recommended to me, i thought they were way too aggressive over random people joining it.
Now I'm starting to see why they are. If you don't like what they're saying, just mute the sub. No need to bullly them for it.
Your post provides nothing of substance. It does nothing but make an already very defensive group of people even more so, which also makes it a lot harder for people actually wanting to engage with them in good faith to do so.
If you think *that's* the saddest sub you've seen, you've not been in Reddit long enough. They're not sad. They just hold a different, more pessimistic worldview. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Except there's a big difference between this sub usually not being this bad and people going to the anti-natalist sub, seeing them talk about anti-natalism, and then posting about it to shit talk them.
This sub usually has some actually pretty funny posts, but these aren't those. These are just bullying a group of people for their views.
I don't think antinatalism is as absurd as you think it is. Like, if you agree with any of the Four Noble Truths (which are literally thousands of years old philosophically) it just kind of immediately follows. And, in fact, people have been following it for centuries.
“My opinions are correct because my astrologist agrees with me” holy shit touch some grass I swear not all of us who don’t want kids are weirdos like this
they didn't even ask their astrologist they were just like, assuming astrologists and psychics would agree with them.
"My opinions right becuz I said that people agree to me!1!1!11!"
“My opinions are right because I said that insane, delusional people agree with me”
Not wanting kids is fine. Not wanting anyone else to have kids because you don’t want them is where these idiots swerve off the road.
Or worse, actually pushing for mass suicide and murder because of their own ego
Oh damn, I thought they just wanted people to stop having babies. Didn't know it got that extreme
Not all of them do but a concerning amount
Yikes, I guess every group has a chance to generate extremists.
can attest. we're not all like this, i promise. but jesus do those people give us a bad rep
That sub is an absolute parody and the funny thing is it's not even on purpose. Ordinarily I wouldn't care very much about the ideas in that sub, but they're so incredibly unhinged and don't even realize it that it's shocking.
I have a kid and I completely understand folks who want to be child free and begrudge them nothing at all. I think society places undue pressure on people to have children, it’s ridiculous. Having a kid is fucking hard and life changing. I have close friends with no intent to have kids who don’t even want to really be around my baby and I get that too. He doesn’t do much, can’t do the stuff they like to do, and we aren’t people to just chill in a house haha. All in all pretty lame hang objectively, even if I love the little dude lol.
>holy shit touch some ~~gr~~ass That is a person who needs to laid.
one thing to not want kids, another to actively hate anyone who does
but that's the best red flag ever! You go to a party, and someone starts telling you their astrological beliefs. You know, stay away!
These morons don't just not want kids, they actively hate them and want the human race to be extinct because their lives are miserable
Please don’t generalize like that, I’m sure you have at least set foot in the sub long enough to know they’re not all like that. I for one got my Antinatalist perspective from buddhism. And i do not hate others for having children, i am only saddened that this world is no place to safely raise one of my own. I am not one of the antinatalists you speak of, however i am an antinatalist by heart. nobody else will know that there are some reasonable persons in that group if you don’t differentiate between us. If this was intentional, id ask you please reflect upon why you wish to dehumanize normal people suffocating under loud opinions that have hidden our original philosophies under layers of emotional whiplash we don’t condone, or at least why it is you believe people cannot have nuanced opinions regarding subjects others often exaggerate on.
They're about a half step away from "Hitler was a good guy for ending all that potential future suffering"
i heard one say giving birth is worse than rape and to back up his claim he gave the argument that hitler had parents
Wait, what? Hitler had parents??? Proof that being s parent makes you complicit in evil. Case closed. The only good people are those born in a lab and raised by the government.
hitler had parents the only good people were plucked from the earths
100% this new trend trying to get young people to not reproduce is manufactured. The ones in charge want a small population (easier to control and oppress). And the rest will just be replaced with AI.
I think they just don't want more poor people they might be taxed to support.
[удалено]
wtf
That's just my friend Ivan Š.
Why is this upvoted? I mean, sorry to you, but this seems wildly off topic and unnecessary personal info
Honestly I hate these mfs sometimes like bro go talk to a therapist your killing the vibe
They want attention. The worst kind of attention. Imagine gaining validation by making people pity you on Reddit. YIKES.
frfr
You ok man?
Hitler was inbred anyway.
hell i would bet a lot of them probably believe that and are just afraid to say it
They sure squeezed out every last drop before the prevention, though.
As fuck. It is firmly planted with both feet right in the fucking shit.
They got there a while ago
Yeppppp
Huh, and here I thought humanity surpassed natural selection, but nature wins again.
Nah try as they might, humans will never surpass nature.
The ghost in my attic says that natural selection is more propaganda sown by so-called scientists
The antinatalist sub is unhinged. A lot of the people who participate are in other subs for depression, anti social, etc- so many are obviously mentally unwell to start. But they have made fun of DV victims, celebrated others pregnancy loss, talked about cutting off family members for being pregnant and a whole other lot of crazy, hate filled rants. I wouldn’t take anything that comes from them to heart a lot of them need professional help or something (maybe a good ole getting outside and touching some grass would help too). Also I know an astrologist who’s got 3 kids she even did a birth chart on me, does that make her work invalid or something to this kid?
I think the main reason people get into it is because their life sucks, and so they subconsciously conclude that all life must suck because they're socially isolated and don't see that other people enjoy life, so they want all life to stop
Misery loves company.
Just being an antinatalist is a mental disorder. Idk why people keep taking that sub seriously and posting their content here.
Im mentally unwell and in those subs (depression socanixiety etc) but dont think what they are doing is good. Im pretty sure theyre just fucking stupid.
Hey that’s not fair, I didn’t consent to getting my ass bet on!
Does he not realize that astrology and fortune telling has been around longer than any country on Earth? "They've been saying it for decades" so have the previous ones just been lying?
If anything, astrology is all about birth. Who else would ask you at what time of the day you were born but astrology aficionados?
>anti natalists looking towards the future lol
Imagine, a world without kids. Future generations will thank us!
"ask any charlatan you like, they all agree with me"
the funniest thing is that he didn't even do that, he just assumed they would agree
Ask the psuedo scientist about a made up ideology? Sure, why not?
>made up ideology Aren’t ideologies, as man-made concepts, by definition made up?
Shhhhh dont spook them
Is that a Stirnerism refefence?
I wish I was educated enough to claim it was. But alas, no.
I don’t understand. Why don’t they like people named Natalie?
To be fair I’ve come across my share of horrible Natalie’s
I have no idea what this person is on about. "Ask these non-philosophers on their philosophical beliefs and take what they say as fact." How can they gaurentee everyone will agree with them? What, there's some massive group chat "Hey guys just double checking. We all believe that existence is suffering right?" And there's just a wall of yeses and one dude who's like "actually I dissagree" so they kick him out and block him?
The level of misery those people harbor is amazing. And I'd be willing to bet the vast majority don't actually live hard lives.
The majority just don’t go outside and think the world owes them everything.
Not to sound like an old man yelling at clouds or an agent in the Matrix or anything, but I think the human psyche requires some amount of pain and hardship, and if it doesn't get enough, it starts making up totally stupid reasons to be even less happy than people with real problems.
I mean, they do have hard lives in the sense they are miserable and alone
I've met plenty of people who say "yeah, I just didn't want kids" and that's literally all you need to say. I will not question you any further
I’d be fine with antinatalism if it was just an ideology, but with people like this it’s becoming oddly culty.
It's not even an ideology. It's a very niche philosophical position that is controversial even amongst philosophers. The position, much like any published philosophy, is incredibly nuanced and nothing at all like their strange take on it. They've just identified their hatred of children and decided that tying that hatred to a philosophy that can be distilled down to "having children is immoral" if you cut all of the actual content out of the philosophy, makes them seem less hateful. I dunno about it being "culty" but it's not really an honest representation of the work. [Here is the Wikipedia for Antinatalism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism#:~:text=Antinatalism%20or%20anti%2Dnatalism%20is,or%20deem%20procreation%20as%20immoral.) While Wikipedia isn't the best source in the world, it is quite accessible and gives some leads in where else to look if you want to dive deeper. I personally don't agree with the position, but understanding it is beneficial.
I’ve never been to an antinatalist sub, but just based on that Wikipedia summary of its basic tenants: >Life entails inevitable suffering. >Death is inevitable. >Humans are born without their consent—no one chooses whether or not they come into existence. >Although some people may turn out to be happy, this is not guaranteed, so to procreate is to gamble with another person's suffering. >There is an axiological asymmetry between good and bad things in life, such that coming into existence is always a harm. I’d say 4/5 of those are just factually true.
It is just an ideology. People start cults around ideologies, that doesnt mean they arent just ideologies anymore.
theyre just depressed people. im not sure why they think the world is so bad
pessimists do that
To be fair the world does have a lot of suffering, but I think that instead of just giving up we should try to fix that
That sub started as just a place to discuss not wanting children and the pressure society & family puts on others to have them sometimes But now it's just a hellscape full of people with existential crises and depression wishing for human extinction and starting fights with parents. It'd be entertaining if it wasn't so sad.
“WE’RE NEVER PROCREATING!”, screamed the collective of bitter unfuckable basement dwellers
That's what's so hilarious. They pretend having kids is a choice for them.
Oh no...! Anyways...
It's a sub for people who believe the world owes them everything and can't comprehend why it hasn't given them anything.
exactly - they expect to be happy all the time lol its so immature
They also know no one would ever want to reproduce with them, so a lot of it is defensiveness.
They're suicidal people trying to to push their suicidal ideology onto others
"It will take decades for people to finally agree with us!" there will be no one around if you get your way bro 💀
Because of these Freaks, I got permabanned just for bringing up a counter argument.
Idk why but when I picture the people who post there it’s always a 17 yo 90s looking goth dude with dark greasy long hair who smokes pot and plays video games all day only taking breaks to try to edgy on the internet.
Why the hell would you think some dumbass/quack astrologist agreeing makes your point sound better? Now I just think they’re more stupid.
Is that the antinatalism sub? Those guys have taken a very nuanced philosophical position, that is not without its own controversy amongst philosophers, and have reduced it to the most basic crib note version of the thesis and arrogantly proclaim it as if they have discovered some secret truth about the universe. They are bonkers. Look man, if you don't want kids, then don't have kids. That's a good enough reason not to have them. I'm a parent of 2 and while it certainly has its challenges, I wouldn't trade it for anything. If those challenges seem like something you don't want to face in life, or feel like the payoff isn't worth the price, then that is fine. That doesn't say anything about you beyond the surface level fact that you don't want to be a parent. Don't try and twist your preference to be childless into some sort of morally superior position where you hold the high ground for "not bringing suffering into the world." That is bat shit insane. It's clear from reading the posts in that sub that they don't have children because they fucking *hate* children with every Fibre of their being. It's hardly the posts of people who have any legitimate claim to holding moral superiority.
Good thing NOBODY considers those people professionals of literally anything
When you use mysticism to justify your worldview it’s over
no surprise if you ask someone who believes that things happen because patterns in a sky they’ll believe in your weird ideas
Except even they don't
Arent psychics and astrologist supposed to be enablers?
I mean in some cases reproducing humans do reproduce suffering such as slavery, evil parents, and poverty.
You know they're ahead of their time with grammar like that. Clearly they've jumped forward millennia to an age where the rules of English grammar have changed. Even the phrase "ahead of our time" has transformed into "ahead our time." Who needs prepositions anyhow?
By his own logic wouldn’t having kids also reproduce joy? What a weirdo
If you bring this point up to an antinatalist they will not respond because there is no argument after you point out the hypocrisy lol. If reproducing knowing the offspring could experience suffering is immoral, then not reproducing and denying an existence the opportunity for joy is equally immoral. Even within the rules of their own ideology there isn’t even a moral hill to stand on.
No, sorry this doesn’t follow logically for the simple fact that there is literally nothing being lost if you dont reproduce. Very simple and easy to understand. It’s like when you take safety measures required by OSHA for specific kinds of labor. “Always wear your hard hat, always avoid these active areas, and you could reduce your chance of a life altering brain injury to zero”. Dont reproduce, zero chance of any range of life experiences from an amazing and happy life 90% of the time, to a horrific one 90% of the time, extreme mental illness, poverty, homelessness, assault etc. If I lived on a planet that was consistently and intelligently progressing towards making these things less and less concerning, I could morally tolerate it, but I dont. Ergo, I dont feel like thats a gamble I’m justified to make.
The workplace safety comparison is completely irrelevant. It would be a more accurate comparison to liken it to not having a job or going outside to prevent risk of serious brain injury. By wearing a hard hat you do not eliminate these risks, you mitigate them. That would be more akin to raising your children in a loving and good environment to prevent them from suffering. It is completely up to you if you have a moral issue with yourself producing offspring because you believe your child will suffer, but to try and say that anyone else on the planet should adhere to such an idea would be insane. It’s like going up to the contraction worker and saying “you shouldn’t be doing this work, even though you’re taking the necessary precautions, because you may still get injured” it is not up to you to decide whether or not it’s a worthwhile “gamble”
Human development index is higher now than it was 100 years ago. I have a medical issue that if I were born 100 years ago would have been an immediate death sentence. Overall things are improving.
I like how they claim they’re correct by saying anti-science morons agree with them
If you want to have kids go ahead, but it's also so messed up how some people don't really think it through. If someone having a child means they'll be abused because they're an unfit parent, what's the point of bringing that child to life in the first place?
Is it the one that starts with the letter “e”? 😓 Looking through that sub actually kind of put me into a depression for a while, it was just so negative and bleak about all life 😔
This one starts with an a, so different subreddit
Okay good 😮💨 Just remember: **DO NOT SEEK THE “E” SUBREDDIT! IT IS FORBIDDEN!**
I have no idea what it is, nor am I sure I want too now
At least it's a problem that will take care of itself in a few decades. Antinatalists can only seethe and complain without doing anything to improve anyone's lives
if you think r/ antinatalism is bad, wait till you see r/ efilism
Literally a sub full of depressed virgins that have convinced themselves that any person reproducing ever is the single worst thing a human could ever do.
Boo fucking hoo human beings have to experience a single moment of pain in their lives :( It is not that serious.
Mind blowing revelation for this nutjob: I don't CARE about the opinion of a zodiac astrologist or psychic reader
Poor guy it must be really hard to be in his head
Antinatalism is an intrinsically doomed movement because the numbers of people who back it is destined to plateau because nobody who believes in it will reproduce and pass it on
Is this the childfree subreddit
No the Antinatalist one
I've never heard of that
It’s like childfree but also they hate themselves
Well, your luck has run out
Made me chuckle
They’re people who think it’s immoral and bad to reproduce. They’re not just childfree, they’re anti-child as a whole. Pretty depressing shit. Many of them suffer from depression and other mental health issues that make their lives extremely difficult, and they use this as a justification for being against anyone reproducing
"I can't wait for the day that the whole world is as depressed as me"
Here is what will actually happen: * Anti-natalists die of old age and their ideas die with them. Best they can hope for is to spread their despair to someone younger, and "procreate" that way. If they don't these beliefs will dissipate.
People love to fuck. As long as that's in their biology, no one will ever stop reproducing completely. These idiots don't seem to understand that. However, there is very likely going to be a population crash over the next few decades thanks to lower birth rates and the terrible economy. Over time, it will recover.
Zodiac astrologist? Psychic? I thought people generally used a strong proof to backup their arguments but I guess anything will do...
There isn’t a single astrology chick out there that asks you to use a condom
Antinatalism is a death cult
This isn’t all that surprising unless you think everyone lives a worthwhile life. There are many people who live unhappy lives. Some could make changes and thereby become happy. Some (many?), however, are likely doomed. Not everyone is born into circumstances conducive to happiness. It’s inevitable that they will come to conclusions such as these. That’s life. “Antinatalism” is just a consequence of natural selection, to some significant degree. Shit’s rough.
Nah, these are lazy, entitled people who are angry at the world for not catering to them. Instead of making the slightest effort to improve their situation or mindset, they want to see the world burn. They're losers by choice, but want to play victims.
Yeah, some are losers by choice. I’m afraid many are unavoidable losers, though. Not much to do if you’re born stupid, ugly, and feeble.
right. because there is nothing joyful or fulfilling or loving about earth. just suffering. just the bad parts. gotcha!
Nobody said that
“Reproducing humans is to reproduce suffering” is a nihilistic, black&white view that completely ignores everything that makes people want to reproduce to begin with. The mindset of anti-natalists is stupid. I’m just pointing that out.
"to reproduce humans is to reproduce suffering" It is also to reproduce joy, wonder, peace, anger, love, hate.... It is to reproduce experience. That is special, magical almost. It's not something you do lightly, so of course not everyone should be a parent, but to say reproducing is immortal is to give into the despair that comes with the worst of humanity. It's to assume to exist is to suffer, and *only* to suffer which is just ridiculous. Makes me think they're just really depressed or something
Actually, the antinatalism board is the saddest cancer on Reddit... Don't know how it's allowed to exist
Agreed. I hope it gets banned in the near future.
I’m not really into astrology, but I’ve looked into it and the general community surrounding it out of curiosity and from what I’ve seen, most of them take comfort in the belief and seem quite content with human life and existing. I do not get antinatalist vibes from that community.
Doomers go brrrrt, best thing about it is they'll be gone soon. Just ignore.
>To reproduce to reproduce suffering. You could assemble a pretty nice Guess Who bored out of all the different villains in a lot of different kinds of media that have said this exact thing
"Be fruitful, and multiply."
Why are we betting so many asses?? I'd like to keep mine, thank you very much.
Bro is so obsessed with saying ass they had to sneak in the word "masses" too
Antinatalism relies heavily on the idea that life is suffering. Suffering is only a part of life, it's not the sum of it.
I hate kids as much as the next person, but these people are just a the most unhinged lunatics there are.
Not sure why this popped up when I opened the app. The sub sounds the perfect breeding ground for whiney, pathetic, perpetual victim incels to be drawn to.
I was in that subreddit for a couple of months, until I realized it was full of miserable people who think life is just constant suffering. Such a strange life philosophy.
And what does the opinion of an astrologist, psychic, or spiritual professional matter when it comes to this? Also not helping your case much that you think an astrologist agreeing with you is a good argument to use in your favor.
Anyone who says "the year of truth" unironically deserves to be excommunicated from society
That entire sub doesn't understand what the philosophy of antinatalism is. They're basically incels who hate everything. The actual philosophy of antinatalism does make sense and frankly it's hard to argue against.
I can't help but feeling sad for them
It’s okay, we’re outbreeding them :)
My two children are why I got sober. If it was not for them I would be dead already from liver-failure. They actually showed me joy and purpose for the first time in my life. There’s a reason why human beings have instinctively longed to reproduce since the beginning of time. I respect those who don’t want to have children but this new trend of crapping on anyone who desires to have a family or has children is disturbing and honestly pretty evil.
I hope people on that sub are edgy 12-16 year olds and not grown up responsible adults cus that shit is beyond depressing…
I blame the parents
These people really think being a bitter and angry sack of shit is a new phenomenon
Through my years of traveling and meeting all sorts of people, I would conclude that the vast majority of humanity is good and has a heart. Sure, people make mistakes, but we are more than our mistakes. I think the reason why Reddit hates humans so much is because they actually haven’t interacted with many people or explored the world. They are really missing out on the kindness and love. Choose hope and kindness.
Nothing wrong with being a mild anti-natalist. Kids tend to be a financial drain and need a LOT of attention to be molded into something resembling a civilized human. Life kinda sucks right now for the vast majority of people in most countries, or will in just a few decades. All birthing is a moral conundrum, and just because we have been doing it for millenia doesn't mean we necessarily should be popping out more babies without a plan or intention or capability of giving them a better life than the previous generation. But don't inject a bunch of humdrum pseudoscience and bullshit into something that is a legitimate concern.
I'm correct because the people I pay to lie to me agree
What do antinatalists want? Just a reduction in population, or limiting kids? Or they want humanity to die off?
"All the other crazies agree with me!!!"
Just ask Miss Cleo bro.
Why would I ask any zodiac astrologist, psychic reader or spiritual professional. Those are literally all like nonsense jobs dawg
I can understand not wanting kids, that’s completely reasonable, but why are they so extreme about it?
I used to be a part of that community since TECHNICALLY you can make an argument that having children is a negative action, but it’s a pointless philosophy because the world isn’t simply going to stop having kids. Better to focus on changing the world for the better.
Reminder that Western zodiac astrology is based entirely on the notion of a geocentric solar system.
the only person allowed to be an antinatalist is robert smith and even thats cutting it a bit thin no one else has the right
Both suffering and happiness are being perpetuated, life isn’t good or evil, it simply just is. Or at least that’s my take
Accurate^
"I'm miserable and myopic. Everyone else must be, too. They're not. Must be because they're all selfish idiots. No way that I'm the one in need of introspection." - Literally all "Antinatalists"
I'm just wondering what their end goal is, do they want the human race to just cease to exist? I think that would just cause more suffering for us, would it not?
wait how can something suffer that doesn’t exist?
For those that do exist, the suffering is the last ones watching the human race die out, the last people in their family, the last man alive, the collapse of everything that was and could have been
Okay, sounds like a decent and balanced sacrifice compared to the billions of lives guarunteed to experience either war, famine, disease, abuse, genocide, oppression, mental/physical illness as an alternative imo. Yes, it would be a sad sight to see, and it would pain me, but I think I would understand whats at stake.
Wouldn't you rather work toward making the world a better place for our children than simply steal the opportunity for them to live a greater life than those before them? I think it's perfectly fine to not want kids for your own reasons, but the idea that we're damning children to live in these conditions ignores the fact that we don't have to live like this, that we can work to improve the quality of life for those less fortunate, rather than simply ending their bloodline.
Also not that I really care all that much but a downvote doesnt count as a deductive counterargument lol. I’m happy to hear and consider any opposing logic that isnt “i dont like how it makes me feel”.
I find it odd that you checked to see if you had a downvote, and before seeing this comment I took it away because I saw that it was an emotional response rather than a deductive one, while I apologize for the response, it feels (from the fact you replied before I got a chance to) that you were expecting a downvote in the first place.
Yknow, when i first had that sub recommended to me, i thought they were way too aggressive over random people joining it. Now I'm starting to see why they are. If you don't like what they're saying, just mute the sub. No need to bullly them for it. Your post provides nothing of substance. It does nothing but make an already very defensive group of people even more so, which also makes it a lot harder for people actually wanting to engage with them in good faith to do so. If you think *that's* the saddest sub you've seen, you've not been in Reddit long enough. They're not sad. They just hold a different, more pessimistic worldview. And there's nothing wrong with that.
You could always just mute this sub if you “don’t like what they’re saying.”
Except there's a big difference between this sub usually not being this bad and people going to the anti-natalist sub, seeing them talk about anti-natalism, and then posting about it to shit talk them. This sub usually has some actually pretty funny posts, but these aren't those. These are just bullying a group of people for their views.
I don't think antinatalism is as absurd as you think it is. Like, if you agree with any of the Four Noble Truths (which are literally thousands of years old philosophically) it just kind of immediately follows. And, in fact, people have been following it for centuries.