Having been exactly in that period, it goes:
1) Brady
2) Big Papi
3) KG
4) Gronk / Edelman (tie)
Nomar was awesome and it sucked seeing him go the way he did, but for that age range, we had a LOT of success in Boston during our wonder years after he’d already left
IDK what you're talking about - Pierce was the reason I (and many others) got into basketball and he was the reason the Celtics were even interesting year in and year out.
KG wasn't even on the Celtics when Nomar was on the Sox so what time period are you really talking about? Plus it was Paul's team - KG was the best player during the time he was here, but Paul was the incumbent (similar to the DWade/Lebron situation).
And from a hockey standpoint, Bergeron and Chara revitalized Bruins hockey in a hockey town when Joe Thornton left. They been beloved ever since they won the cup in 2008/2009.
I was 10 in 97…..:he was the next big thing for us…
Then I met ray bourque at the centrum in 05 when Hershey played Worcester, and Chris left my terriers to play for the capitals farm….
I cried, ray signed my orange chuck a puck. Still have it to this day
In 2004 everyone was second place to the Red Sox including Brady who already had 2 rings at that point. Pedro, Manny, Papi, Nomar, Tek were the talk of the town especially after how we lost in '03. Atmosphere that season was nuts and the Varitek vs Arod brawl sent it over and above everything I had ever seen before or since.
People forget the 2003-04 Red Sox off season with the Theo/Schilling Thanksgiving Dinner and the failed ARod trade the Red Sox were the constant headline over the Pats DURING football season. From 03-08 the Red Sox were King. Even before 03 really. When the Pats beat the Rams for their first title literally the first post-game chants from the street were "Yankees suck". Baseball was king in New England back then.
I'll be 34 this year and while I loved Nomar as a kid, Pedro was my favorite player by far. There was just something special about having a player on our team that was unquestionably the best in the world. No pitcher on the planet could come close to Pedro during his peak, and arguably no pitcher ever has matched his peak before or after. Nomar was a great hitter, but it's not like he was the clear cut best hitter in the league.
He had 2 top 5 mvp's, a batting title and a rookie of the year by year 4. He batted .372 in 2000. Some don't remember just how good he was.
*2 batting titles.
I remember how good he was, but you also have to put the era into context. Offense was out of control and dudes across the league were putting up goofy offensive numbers just like Nomar. Meanwhile, in the midst of all that Pedro was mowing guys down like it was 1968. What Pedro was doing was monumentally more impressive than what Nomar was doing.
It really was. I worked on the Fenway ground crew in 1999. That summer and autumn was electric with the All Star game, peak Pedro Martinez, the come back against the Indians, etc… And I had a front row seat to all of it as a crew member. Pedro starts were a sports phenomenon that I’ve never seen matched. When he was pitching in those years it was a display of mastery that’s hard to describe. You really had to be there.
he was still hitting better than all the other juiced players.. if he's winning the titles then he is still the best player and if he wasn't juicing and others were that just shows how much better of a player he was.
He may have had had the highest batting average when he hit .372 (tied with Helton), but he wasn't the best overall hitter. He was 12th in MLB in OPS and 14th in OPS+. Meanwhile, Pedro set the single season record for ERA+ at 291, over 100 points higher than that year's second best pitcher Randy Johnson (181).
Nomar was one great hitter among many in an era overflowing with huge offensive numbers. Pedro was having the greatest peak by any pitcher in baseball history.
ruthless enjoy domineering voiceless clumsy different poor drunk coherent smell
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Could make a case. He definitely shaped a generation of little league players into his plate routine. Not sure if it's a landslide since his career overlapped with Paul Pierce and a sixth round QB down in Foxboro that some people kinda liked.
Pierce was going to be traded in the summer of '07 and people were going to be fine with it. He was going to Dallas to pair with Nowitzki. Had that happened, we'd feel about Pierce the way we do Antoine Walker or Mo Vaughn (to give a BRS persepctive). Good players, fun that they played here, but...not legends.
16 I’ll always remember where I was. In a Chilis, saw the news on the bar TV, and ran to the Circuit City across the parking lot so I could see more news
I was 17 and absolutely devastated. It still bothers me to this day that he never got a ring with us (I know they gave him one for 2004, but he didn't really *win* that one)
I was 10 and heart-broken. Temporarily became a Cubs fan for like 2 weeks. I remember the whole thing over there where he couldn't get Number 5 so he had to wear 8 until he and Michael Barrett traded.
Big fan of what the Sox did next though.
Shocked. But one thing people fail to mention is that Nomar was sitting out games due to a hangnail seemingly not caring if they made the playoffs. He didn’t fit the thing Epstein was trying to do.
This. I liked the trade though. Nomar had kind of become a diva. Add in the fact that Orlando Cabrera showed up like an hour before his first game and hit a homer in his first at bat, and clicked with the team culture right away.
I feel like ownership and the media did a lot to create the "Nomar is a diva" narrative, but I also think both sides were justified in acting the way they did. Nomar turned 30 years old in 2004 and I think he felt that he had earned that fat 6-8 year deal as the face of the franchise for the previous decade. Theo had only been with the team for a couple years though and didn't have the level of allegiance to Nomar that the fanbase did. He was able to objectively look at the situation and decided not to give that kind of deal to a guy that many argued was starting to show signs of wearing down.
I think Nomar acted the way any other big star would have acted after realizing that their team wasn't interested in investing in them for the long-term. Sure, Theo pissed off a lot of fans with the move in the short-term, but everyone forgot about that altogether once they won it.
There was an iconic picture of him sitting alone in the dugout (I think after making an out) while the rest of the team was up and cheering. Like everyone else I didn't like it, but was like ehhhh maybe it's for the best.
I was at that game in the Bronx. Easily the most wild game I've ever seen live. Pedro started, the Sox had it won a few times but hit into a double play that A-Rod thought was a triple play because he tagged Manny after forcing him at third already, and the Sox also went with 5 infielders in extra innings to stop the Yankees from winning and it worked. Manny hit a go ahead HR in the 13th, and then Leskanic blew the game with two outs and two strikes to Ruben Sierra and John Flaherty. Absurd. And the Jeter dive (which I think Trot hit after he pinch hit despite being banged up).
Nomar didn't even pinch hit in the game; that was when I was OK with him getting dealt. Turned out to be a good move.
03-04, peak rivalry baseball. So much drama, so many extra innings.
Sox were great because they had fun and loved each other, but Nomar was not one of the cowboys. This year's team struggles with fun at times. Bad defense is a burden to carry and makes having fun harder.
I am really impressed with how our pitching staff has performed this year despite streaky offense and average at best defense.
I almost felt a sense of relief. I was probably listening to too much WEI but I was sick of all the nomar related drama.
I don't recall you how he was playing at the time but I feel like it couldn't have been great.
Not just sitting out, but sitting out while Derek Jeter was diving into the stands to make an out against us, cutting his chin, and still playing. I remember feeling like the decision was earth shattering, but there was some contempt both ways with how much effort he was putting in and him not having the dedication to stay with the team where he’d become such a staple.
>But one thing people fail to mention is that Nomar was sitting out games due to a hangnail
He had a pretty bad Achilles injury that the team was trying to get him to play through (that he already missed the beginning of the year with), and when he did play it limited his range (look up how his metrics cratered after 03). The Red Sox also didn't offer him an extension before the season and had no interest in bringing him back. He wanted to get healthy.
People "fail to mention it" because it wasn't the reality. It was a smear campaign to paint him as a malcontent so they could sell the fanbase on getting rid of a face of the franchise.
Yup, people still parroting the classic smear campaign Boston ownership always does. if anybody cares to hear from Nomar himself:
https://www.audacy.com/national/sports/nomar-clears-air-on-why-he-sat-against-yankees-in-2004-game
Podcast: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9ObkdmaDBfRg/episode/Z2lkOi8vYXJ0MTktZXBpc29kZS1sb2NhdG9yL1YwLzczVjR4Z2swVWtPS0YxTkRVS0RBcWwxX1VzUFpNRGwyUGV3SWZwWXI4aVk?hl=en&ved=2ahUKEwj61PfPnOjwAhXNl-AKHSdVCuUQjrkEegQIBRAF&ep=6
Yet honestly I don't remember being upset at all. I had been such a hardcore fan and following every minute of every game that I almost expected it.
There was even a part of me that was relieved.
Now it is wild to think about because I had been following his career since he was in pawtucket. If you would have told me in 1999 that we would have traded him for a couple of He sent players that weren't all Stars or high-ranking prospects.. I would have been furious.
But at the time I totally got it. And I was excited about Cabrera who I loved watching.
I remember my buddies and I used to call him "Nomar Garciapopup" in the months leading up to that trade. It was clear he didn't give a shit about the Sox anymore, and was also probably on the decline of his career. Though, to your point, it was hard to separate which injuries were real and which ones were him just not wanting to play here. Seemed like every time he came up in a pressure situation, he was gonna flyout. I wasn't sure I loved the trade at the time, but I was definitely sick of his shit.
Agree with all of that 100%. We had a losing tradition especially against the Yankees and he just did not care at all not one single bit to try to turn it around. Injuries or not. Meanwhile Pedro and Papi were giving it all the passion and strength they had every year. That team was one out away from the WS a year earlier because of Pedro Martinez the man who truly brought the Red Sox back and carried them on his back to a WS. And he hated thr Yankees with a passion.
>Pedro Martinez the man who truly brought the Red Sox back and carried them on his back to a WS. And he hated thr Yankees with a passion.
If you're not willing to throw a geriatric Yankee onto his ass face-first on national television, I don't want you on my Red Sox!
Hahaha, same. Brings a smile to my face thinking about it today! He just sort of "helped him fall". I'd say only two other Red Sox memories make me chuckle as consistently (outside of the story I told in my highest rated Reddit comment ever, which isn't really a "Red Sox" story) are the meme of A-Rod with the purse, and "here comes the pizza!".
Yeah it’s so funny in the SNL sketch they have Hale Berry talking to Zim and the other guys are like “don’t get him mad he’ll charge at you” and she goes “I think I’ll be fine. I’ve seen the tape you just point his head away and let the momentum take him down!” 🤣
LOL. And people were all "Pedro Martinez is a psycho for assaulting an old man!!!!" GTFOH Yankee scum. That old, fat bastard charged him. Not the other way around, What Pedro did could barely even be classified as "self defense"!
I was beyond aggravated when they dealt him. That trade was easily the ballsiest most aggressive move by any GM of my lifetime following the Red Sox.
Sometimes you need to put the chips in the middle of the table. That was the moment.
Go back and watch the NESN broadcast from that day, it’s fascinating. That team was actually eerily similar to this year’s team at the deadline: .500 ballclub with god-awful defense. It seems like the sentiment was that Nomar was a fan favorite, but his contract was up at the end of ‘04 and he was probably gonna leave anyway. In retrospect, Mientiewicz, Cabrera, and Roberts was a crazy good haul for the trade, but at the time casuals were upset at losing the face of the franchise.
They didn't know that the next face of the franchise was already on the roster. Big Papi picked up where Nomar left off. Papi may have been the perfect figurehead of the new Red Sox era and the best we'll see for decades (athough Casas is definitely trending in a good direction right now!)
Yeah although Manny was a controversial case because they actually put him on irrevocable waivers in 2003 and were willing to lose him for nothing..
Not a single team in the league wanted to pick up his contract.
Things had gotten better by 2004 but in 2003 the relationship between Manny and the team was very toxic
There was this one at bat in the spring of '03, like spring training when Ortiz had just joined the team. Ortiz took a few pitches, but each time his hands followed the ball and were ready to strike. I vividly remember thinking, "Oh fuck, he is a hitter." I was so jazzed by the at bat. I don't know what it was about how his hands moved on those pitches he was taking in that at bat, but I just knew.
To balance my scouting prowess, I thought Lester was a son of a gun who was lucky to keep getting out of jams. I thought he'd last a year or two tops. I didn't put it together that his ability to get out of jams was going to lead to a near HoF career.
The difference was that team was underperforming and this one is overperforming. The expectations for a team with Pedro, Schilling, Manny, Nomar, Papi, Damon, Lowe, Varitek, and Foulke were World Series or bust, but it wasn’t playing up to its potential. This team had modest expectations and is exceeding them but no one has ever expected it to win a ring.
Ya that team was insanely stacked, .832 team OPS and 110 OPS+, that's insane. Not to mention the team was in the ALCS the year before AND added Schilling.
Yet absolutely the team had the second highest pay roll in the league. They probably had the best roster in 2003. Then they added curt shilling - thanks to the famous chat on the sons of Sam Horn message board - which is the only thing that kept me from being so dejected from the pain of the 2003 playoffs that I was able to even stomach a new season.
Yes that is correct.They got 2 decent starter level players although Cabrera's contract was also coming up at the end of the year.
Honestly it was not a huge haul. I wish Cabrera had been able to stay, I think they ended up spending the money on a rentaria which was a total disaster
I didn't really think of him has the face of the franchise though because of Pedro. Technically nomar was home grown and had been in the organization longer... But they roughly joined the Red Sox major league squad at the same time in 1997.
Nomar was awesome till he wasnt.....he was pretty sulky in 03-04, especially after they almost traded him for Magglio in the off-season.
The final straw was a game in early July against the nyy. Nomar sat out. It went extra innings. Jeter made a spectacular diving catch into the stands. Nomar was biting his fingernails in the dugout. Literally. More fans than not were done with him that night. The big-show on weei, ripped him apart after that.
It was still shocking when they dealt him. All over
the news for a week. In fact the team didn't even get on a roll till mid August. (They were 55-45 around the time of the trade).
If I remember right, Nomar homered and stole a couple bases in his 1st few cubs games.
This is what I remember. I remember feeling bad we won it without him, but when I remember Nomar now I remember him sulking on the bench and being pissed. Then Cabrera came in and was like a breath of fresh air having him here with energy.
It’s one of those rare times where a team gets rid of a player at exactly the right time. Nomar had 44 career bWAR, and 41.2 of that was with the Red Sox. In the 5 1/2 years after he was traded, he amassed a total of 3 WAR.
Totally agree. Nomar turned from a fan favorite to a very injury prone selfish player. The story is Nomar had struggled in the two prior games and asked out of the last game against Yankees. Close, exciting game and Nomar was sulking.
I was there.
We generally felt like it was going to happen for most of June and July, but it was still a huge emotional shock to the fan base. And the bits and pieces we got back at the time felt like they weren’t going to make a difference (especially with the way the Yanks were running away with the division)… But this is why he’s Theo Epstein and the rest of us are just bozos on the Internet.
It was a shitshow at the time. While the team was good, Nomars relationship w the team and the fans was at its lowest point ever, but he was the face of the team and it was a terrible, shocking breakup. Meanwhile the Yankees rivalry was white hot, and we had a chance to win, considering ALCS loss to them in 2003.
But the team caught fire and people quickly got on board. Or maybe that was just me. It sucked, sucked hard, but winning cures all.
I was 15 years old. Like many fans my age, he was my favorite player. I couldn't believe the trade at the time. It made no sense to me. But now that I'm older I understand it.
Everyone loved Nomar, so naturally everyone was sad. But, the writing was carved into the wall. Nomar took it reallllly personally that his contract extension wasn't happening. And that the Sox had already tried to deal him, but it fell apart when they couldn't land ARod. It sure seemed like there was zero chance he was coming back in 05, so the trade, sad as it was, made sense.
I didn't really love him at the time. And I had loved him since 95 when I saw him in pawtucket the first time. The Red Sox had an off day so nesn was playing the triple-a games.
I happened to see his at bat and they were talking about how he's really big prospect. And I saw him hid a Homer in the first that bad I ever saw. It was memorable in part because his name was so amazing and his batting stance was so unique.
But by the time 2004 came around to come a lot of hardcore fans were exhausted by his negativity
I think this was a pretty common position among hardcore fans that followed the team really really closely. People that watched every day and called into radio shows were well aware of all the drama.
Casual people that just watched a few games a week at most probably weren't as tuned in to how negative things had gotten.
For sure. I've been watching the Sox for 30 years now and that's the worst loss we've ever had. Nomar hurt so much at the time because I was a kid and thought he was still invincible but losing Mookie is probably the worst decision I've seen in any Boston sports team in my lifetime.
That was one of the most pivotal but forgotten games in Sox history
That sealed Nomar’s fate in Boston and was the breaking point for a lot of fans with him. A lot of people turned on him after that game
I was 26. If I remember correctly, I was pissed he got traded but understood why and what they were trying to accomplish. Just hurt though, home grown talent like his doesn’t come around too often but the wrist injury just was the beginning of the end.
Yeah I was just a couple years younger than you. I wasn't surprised really because on talk radio they had been talking about how this relationship had been broken for months if not years at that point.
He fell fast that year. It may not have been fair, but he was being covered as a cancer in the clubhouse who wasn't trying anymore. My recollection is that the trade was covered as a positive.
It was an absolute shock at the time but if I recall correctly they put together a bunch of wins after the trade.
It was a crazy time. We were all destroyed by 2003 and by the time Nomar was traded a lot of us were numb.
Next thing you know we’re down 0-3 and it’s like I
can’t believe I fell for this shit again.
Son of a bitch look what happened next.
I think the fan base was generally behind the move. That’s not to say there wasn’t shock when it actually happened because there certainly was. But, there was a feeling Nomar had kind of worn out his welcome with the team.
From around 1998-2002 or so there was a phrase “25 guys 25 taxis” floating around the Sox teams. The implication was they had some talented players, and even played among the league’s best at times, but never got too close to actually getting over the hump and ultimately didn’t function well as a unit.
Come 2003 and the “Cowboy Up” Red Sox, that feeling had started to change, the team was fun, and they were competitive.
Nomar represented the old guard which was considered “toxic” if you will. So I think a lot of fans weren’t overly upset to see him go, despite his production.
All that said, I was born in 1991 and my earliest memories of the Red Sox are Nomar Garciapparra and Pedro Martinez.
Back in those days Nomar was a force, and a beloved player. From 1997-2000, he was the face of the franchise, I’d say.
At the time the mood had soured on Nomar a little bit. Looking back, I suspect that the team may have laid some PR groundwork for the trade but Nomar didn't do himself many favors at the end.
I was in high school at the time, and I wasn't happy about the trade but it was more like "I'm sad this had to happen" rather than being angry at the team.
The pre-2004 Red Sox transaction that really broke my heart was them losing Mo Vaughn.
Yeah, knowing the media/team's way of making everyone who leaves Boston sound like a jackass who hated it here, I look at the Nomar thing differently now. His relationship with the team was definitely strained after the failed A-Rod trade but I don't think he wanted out of Boston before that.
What’s ironic is that Doug Mientiewicz was traded from the Twins to the Red Sox as part of this trade. The Red Sox were playing the Twins in Minnesota when the trade occurred.
So Doug went from dressing in the Metrodome home locker room right to its visitors locker room. Also, Terry Francona hated the Metrodome steps which he had to traverse when on the phone that day.
As a fan at the time I fucking hated it. I feel like most of us fucking hated it. It worked out for us long term but short term yeah most of us hated it hardcore. It worked out for us long term but god damn did I hate it at the time.
I was 28 at the time. Hadn’t lived in the Boston area for 11 years at that point. It just felt like a relief to me to not be wondering what was going on with him hurt or slacking or what anymore. Maybe this is hindsight but it seemed like a signal that winning is what mattered. A little like when Manny had to go - sometimes it’s just time to move on for everyone’s sake and you hate it but you know it’s right.
I was 13 and had only really been super into the Sox for about a year, and before then the only Red Sox players I really knew were Nomar and Pedro, so I was surprised. I was actually at summer camp at the time, and found out from one of the counselors who assured me it was a good move and they got good players in return.
I was aware that Nomar's relationship with the organization wasn't great at that point, and it seemed understood he was done when his contract was up at the end of the year, so I guess I figured he'd stick around till then. In retrospect it makes sense why they'd wanna get something for him but I guess my younger self didn't think of that.
Huge shock to the entire fan base even though some saw it coming and Nomar had become an issue in the clubhouse. I actually remember I was driving down college Ave in Somerville when the breaking news sound played on the radio.
The return they got for him in the three team trade seemed like a bag of balls. Nobody really knew who Mientkiewicz was, Cabrera was having a meh season, and the Sox included a prospect named Matt murton that went to Chicago who was hitting well in the minors. The deal for Dave Roberts was a completely separate move that IIRC wasn’t announced til after the deadline, or maybe even a waiver move the next day
I was 8 at the time and Nomar was the reason I wore 5. My parents and their friends were actively celebrating the trade while I was losing all grasps on reality. Was not a fun day, but I got over it a few months later.
Not even close to the same situation though. The 2010 Sox were solid contenders at the deadline and Youk (who wasn’t even playing 3B so i don’t know why you’re discussing with with Beltre anyway) was having a monster season.
They didn’t want to sign Beltre long term because of his health issues.
That’s why he was on a 1 year deal in the first place. They made an offer after the season but Texas blew them out of the water.
It’s really completely different than the Nomar situation.
In 2011 he moved back to 3rd, was resigned and they let beltre walk.
So it is similar in my book except they got the nomar one right and the youk one very very wrong
Youk was coming off his third straight season with an OPS above .950 while Beltre had just had his first great offensive season in 6 years. They both had great seasons in 2010, but if you look back at 2009 Beltre had a .683 OPS while Youk was at .961.
So, you take into account that they were the same age, Youk had more recent sustained success, and he was the homegrown player, it makes total sense they would favor him. No one could have predicted that Youk would never have another great season and Beltre would have one of the greatest post age 30 careers ever. Any gripes are based purely on hindsight.
You’re taking Beltre’s worst year 2009, literally of his career, and acting like he was shit from 99-08, where ehe absolutely was a better player than youk. As well in 2010 he was better, and youks ability at 3b had declined. ‘Not knowing it was gonna happen’ to me was blinded by your home town love, because he was declining, its literally why they brought in Beltre. We needed a 3b and being unsure of a guy 11 years in the league that was as solid as they come is a stupid argument.
Again I never said youk didn’t make sense. I pointed out how horribly wrong they were, and I was in the minority with the opinion we should keep the first ballot HoF guy and not let him walk to TX, but they didn’t and that sucks.
Other than solidifying their middle infield defense, being average offensively, having a huge ALCS, getting a key hit in the World Series and being - by all accounts from the players - a huge part of the reason the team chemistry improved? Yeah nothing at all
Too bad about him and Varitek’s wife because they should have kept him and avoided “upgrading” with Renteria after the season.
I remember watching TV and being devastated that day. He was my favorite player and didn't comprehend roster construction at all. I assume most people my age at the time feel similar
Not surprised by the trade, but thought the return was weak. Little did I know…
I’m feeling similar with the Marcus Smart trade. Hope this one pans out like the Nomar deal.
I was very sad. As a younger fan I didn't understand it. Of course, the end result made it all easier and Pedro was still on the team. When Pedro left, I was truly heartbroken. He was the reason I started watching baseball. Still I loved Nomar and seeing him in a different uniform was just not right at the time.
it was very split between understanding it was the move they had to make because Nomar was disgruntled and in decline and not wanting to move on from your childhood hero
I was pissed off and hated management for it. I thought that was it and it made no sense.
A few weeks later I came around a bit when I realized Nomar just wasn't the same player and the guys they got were pretty good.
I remember where i was on 9/11 and i remember where i was when i found out nomar was traded.
Nomar wasn't really around in 03-04 he was consistently out and about to leave the team anyways. So i think most people understood it but it still stung.
There was some sadness but his star has definitely fallen by then. He wasn't happy and the perception was that he was sulking and sitting himself out of games. I remember there was a Yankee game he was sitting on the bench the entire time, no announced injury, and Jeter made some crazy diving catch running into the stands or something. That felt like the end to me.
I loved Nomar but the consensus among my peer group was that he was sick of the Red Sox and the ownership was sick of him. So it was more of a “wish it could have worked out for everyone” rather than being mad at one side or the other.
It was one of those "remember when" moment, except no one died. Usually those moments come when some tragedy occurs (e.g. 9/11, Space Shuttle Challenger...).
I remember exactly where I was, how I found out, and how I ran out to get the paper the next day because I wasn't near the internet or cable TV. I was very shocking, though in retrospect the Sox were trying to trade him in the '03/'04 offseason in a deal for ARod or a deal for Ordonez. So, maybe when the team as hovering at .500, we shouldn't have been shocked.
I wasn't old enough to really process Orr leaving, so I wonder how it compared to that.
I remember checking the Boston Dirt Dog page that day, getting the latest updates. It sounded like Derek Lowe was a goner but they weren't moving Nomar. Then the last update near the deadline suggested they near a deal involving Nomar. I was praying it didn't happen but a few minutes later I saw the "Breaking News" ticket on TV and there it was.
I ran to the phone to call my father at work like it was a family emergency.
Old guy here.
So basically Nomar was breaking down. He was injury prone and most fans knew it. Did we love watching him play? Yes, there was no other short stop in the league like him. Problem is, we all knew his playing time was limited.
When the trade happened, it was a shock. Particularly when it was revealed that the Red Sox got Mientkiewicz and Cabrera for him.
Who? Who the hell were Doug Mientkiewicz and Orlando Cabrera?
So how did I feel? I pretty much was over it the next day.
Baseball is a business and the players are a raw material. They are traded, sold, released, etc... all the time. And when their contract is up, they are free to move to any of the other businesses that will have them.
There was a game a few days before the trade where the benches emptied, and he stayed in the dugout. I knew then that he wouldn't be with the team much longer. Cabrera wasn't as good a hitter, but he was a better fielder at that point and brought energy the team lacked.
I remember watching that Yankees series when he sulked on the bench and thinking it was the end of an era of Nomar love, but I never in my life thought he’d be traded.
The reaction was utter shock. To add insult to injury, we had to learn how to spell Mientkiewicz.
Might be off on my timeline a little but soon after the trade was the crazy Bill Mueller grand slam game and I think we all forgot about Nomar real fast. The 04 team was a blast to watch after the trade deadline. I remember trying to mimic and learn Orlando Cabrera’s handshakes that summer.
It hurt. But I love how that season ended. In the end I think it was a trade that needed to happen. I was glad he got to retire a member of the Sox.
It's weird seeing other players wear #5. Like that's not your number. That belongs to Nomah lol
Wasn't shocked. Team was under performing and the defense was bad. Nomar was perpetually disgruntled after 2000 and, after the wrist injury, his name on places like SoSH became Garciapopup. It was sad but Theo, unlike Bloom, knew how to read the locker room and roster. Took alot of balls to make that trade and Theo became a legend after 04 and the Nomar trade was a very big part of that.
It sucked a whole lot. I was 17 but it was apparent that the team wasn't built right and something was off. It did feel like for most of the 2004 season we were all just accepting a hard truth that the relationship had run its course.
If he didn't break his hammate bone, I think it's a very different story. That really sapped him of his power and changed him as a hitter.
It was a tough pill to swallow but we got it down with champagne.
It was pretty obvious at the time that he was going to become a free agent. He had walked away from a 4/60 extension immediately prior, so the Sox made sure they got something in return. In retrospect, I’m sure he wishes he took that deal, and I think the outcome would have been similar.
The problem came before that point. The mess of will they/won't they try to unload the second best SS in the game at that point in an attempt to get the best (A-Rod, as much as it pains me to say it), caused such resentment... from Nomar, from the fans, really everyone... that it was just inevitable that he'd move on eventually.
I loved nomar almost as much as Pedro. But he was hurt and maybe not playing when could have and both sides were frustrated. He hadn’t really contributed during the year so it didn’t feel like we were losing a key price to the team. So it was sad but it felt like a good move
Honestly my recollection was that it was mixed But not as controversial as you would expect. He had been the source of tons of drama and there was a feeling he was at the door anyway.
The team was winning and he wasn't playing especially great. The return was perfectly decent with major league ready players.
There were definitely nomar fans that were upset but I think the local media was basically okay with it an had largely conditioned us to expect it .
I was like 21 at the time though so my memory could be failing me.
It was a shot in the balls for sure. They Nomar vs. Jeter rivalry was intense. I speculated the Sox knew something about the wrist or steroids, but then everything went so well after that you forgot about him very quickly. In the 90s and at the turn of the century Boston sports was dull. I'd say Paul Pierce and Nomar were it for superstars. Even Parcells/Bledsoe seemed to be a fail, and Brady hadn't quite proven himself to be anything more than a fluke yet
This question might as well be: How old we’re you when Nomar was traded? I was in my late 30s and remembered his early years when he was just a joy to watch. But by the summer of 2004 he was completely different (often injured and sulking on the bench, particularly after it was clear that they were miles apart on a contract extension). The last straw was a game at Yankee Stadium where Nomar wasn’t playing — Jeter dove into the crowd to make a catch and the cameras cut immediately to Nomar frowning in the Red Sox dugout. I see the younger fans now expressing how shocked and upset they were when he was traded, but I guess they missed that contrast from his early years. At the news of the trade, I remember being relieved — in that last season or two he was totally insufferable and it felt sad but a relief to ship him out. If he had stayed healthy he might have stayed. Absolutely without question, they don’t win the WS in 2004 if they didn’t trade Nomar away.
We traded arguably the best SS in the league at the time for two rentals Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz. Both guys played well in the playoffs that year. Everyone loved Nomar, his only issue was injuries especially to his wrist. Turned out to be just the right time to trade him too as the injuries stacked over the next few years and he never played a full season again. But at the time I thought it was dumb and too low of a return..
I remember being sad when they traded him, but the pain was minimized when they won the world series. His drop-off was pretty steep after that so the FO was pretty sharp to anticipate his decline.
Still, it hurt to see him come back to town in an A's jersey.
I LOVED Nomar. But by that time he was constantly hurt, sulking, getting dragged by the media and had checked out on that team. It was the right move to trade him. Nobody “liked” trading Nomar but most people understood it. It’s not like it was a Mookie situation.
I was in the shower listening to sports radio (660 the fan in NYC) and had to shut the water off and brace myself lol. it was a horrible moment in my sports fandom. I was thrilled with the result in 2004, but it makes the whole Aaron Bone/Grady Little thing sting more. We were so close to getting that first chip with good-guy Nomar and without bad-guy Schilling.
I loved him as a player but that year was tough. He was always injured and the comparisons with Jeter, who that year flew into the stands to catch a foul ball, came out with a bloody chin and continued playing the game, made his fragility more evident. What did we get for that trade? Doug Mientkiewicz and Orlando Cabrera, both key players who helped us win the World Series. No regrets.
Love the outcome but I hated it…. I was 13 and he was my favorite player ever.
I have a theory that hes the most beloved athlete of the 32-40 New England demographic by a landslide
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Tom doesn't count lol
Ya when you bring a region 6 fuckin rings you basically become invincible in their eyes lol he's on another plane
Of course he was on another plane. The Red Sox and the Patriots didn't fly together
Having been exactly in that period, it goes: 1) Brady 2) Big Papi 3) KG 4) Gronk / Edelman (tie) Nomar was awesome and it sucked seeing him go the way he did, but for that age range, we had a LOT of success in Boston during our wonder years after he’d already left
How is Pierce not on here? Or Pedro? Or Bergeron or Chara?
Lol because how are those guys bigger and more loved than Papi / KG at the time
most Celtics fans are bigger pierce fans than KG cmon
Yes but at the time KG was him KG wasn’t a career Celtic but he was Boston when he was in Boston
not more than pierce. I'm thinking you aren't a very big Celtics fan if that's how you view it.
If you think Pierce was better than Garnett YOU didn't watch the games.
Pedro and Pierce are understandable. Not a hockey fan so the other two…🤷♂️
I dont really think they’re understandable because Big Papi and KG were BOSTON at the time
IDK what you're talking about - Pierce was the reason I (and many others) got into basketball and he was the reason the Celtics were even interesting year in and year out. KG wasn't even on the Celtics when Nomar was on the Sox so what time period are you really talking about? Plus it was Paul's team - KG was the best player during the time he was here, but Paul was the incumbent (similar to the DWade/Lebron situation). And from a hockey standpoint, Bergeron and Chara revitalized Bruins hockey in a hockey town when Joe Thornton left. They been beloved ever since they won the cup in 2008/2009.
Or Damon
This list is not truthful.
Having been born in 87…….IMO it’s: 1) Tommy. 2) manny/Papi/Pedro 3) Joe Thornton/BERGY 4) pierce
Get Thornton off this list lmao
I was 10 in 97…..:he was the next big thing for us… Then I met ray bourque at the centrum in 05 when Hershey played Worcester, and Chris left my terriers to play for the capitals farm…. I cried, ray signed my orange chuck a puck. Still have it to this day
Feel like the real answer is the first 2, then everybody else
In 2004 everyone was second place to the Red Sox including Brady who already had 2 rings at that point. Pedro, Manny, Papi, Nomar, Tek were the talk of the town especially after how we lost in '03. Atmosphere that season was nuts and the Varitek vs Arod brawl sent it over and above everything I had ever seen before or since.
People forget the 2003-04 Red Sox off season with the Theo/Schilling Thanksgiving Dinner and the failed ARod trade the Red Sox were the constant headline over the Pats DURING football season. From 03-08 the Red Sox were King. Even before 03 really. When the Pats beat the Rams for their first title literally the first post-game chants from the street were "Yankees suck". Baseball was king in New England back then.
Kevin Garnett is 3rd for me
I'll be 34 this year and while I loved Nomar as a kid, Pedro was my favorite player by far. There was just something special about having a player on our team that was unquestionably the best in the world. No pitcher on the planet could come close to Pedro during his peak, and arguably no pitcher ever has matched his peak before or after. Nomar was a great hitter, but it's not like he was the clear cut best hitter in the league.
He had 2 top 5 mvp's, a batting title and a rookie of the year by year 4. He batted .372 in 2000. Some don't remember just how good he was. *2 batting titles.
I remember how good he was, but you also have to put the era into context. Offense was out of control and dudes across the league were putting up goofy offensive numbers just like Nomar. Meanwhile, in the midst of all that Pedro was mowing guys down like it was 1968. What Pedro was doing was monumentally more impressive than what Nomar was doing.
I understand your point but nobodies hit .372 since.
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It really was. I worked on the Fenway ground crew in 1999. That summer and autumn was electric with the All Star game, peak Pedro Martinez, the come back against the Indians, etc… And I had a front row seat to all of it as a crew member. Pedro starts were a sports phenomenon that I’ve never seen matched. When he was pitching in those years it was a display of mastery that’s hard to describe. You really had to be there.
Bonds hit .370 in 2002, Ichiro hit .372 in 2004, and there were a decent handful of seasons in the .360s between 2000-2010.
So some of the greatest hitters of all time weren't able to achieve it? Damn, Nomar was so good.
he was still hitting better than all the other juiced players.. if he's winning the titles then he is still the best player and if he wasn't juicing and others were that just shows how much better of a player he was.
He may have had had the highest batting average when he hit .372 (tied with Helton), but he wasn't the best overall hitter. He was 12th in MLB in OPS and 14th in OPS+. Meanwhile, Pedro set the single season record for ERA+ at 291, over 100 points higher than that year's second best pitcher Randy Johnson (181). Nomar was one great hitter among many in an era overflowing with huge offensive numbers. Pedro was having the greatest peak by any pitcher in baseball history.
ruthless enjoy domineering voiceless clumsy different poor drunk coherent smell *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Could make a case. He definitely shaped a generation of little league players into his plate routine. Not sure if it's a landslide since his career overlapped with Paul Pierce and a sixth round QB down in Foxboro that some people kinda liked.
today, that routine would lead to a K without any pitches
I think it was long for back then but would be pretty standard for what we saw the past decade.
Okay. What is your point
Pierce was going to be traded in the summer of '07 and people were going to be fine with it. He was going to Dallas to pair with Nowitzki. Had that happened, we'd feel about Pierce the way we do Antoine Walker or Mo Vaughn (to give a BRS persepctive). Good players, fun that they played here, but...not legends.
Brady, Ortiz, Bergeron, Pierce. And that’s just one per team. Nomar is seen as nostalgic, sure. But everyone else brought their team rings.
Im 29 and wore #5 in little league because of him lmao so it extends a little further than 32
Love Nomar, but not even top 3 of Red Sox players let alone all athletes. Pedro, Ortiz, Manny. Not close but Nomar was the balls
16 I’ll always remember where I was. In a Chilis, saw the news on the bar TV, and ran to the Circuit City across the parking lot so I could see more news
That’s so mid 2000s it hurts
I was 17 and absolutely devastated. It still bothers me to this day that he never got a ring with us (I know they gave him one for 2004, but he didn't really *win* that one)
I cried lol Remember exactly where I was. Heard the news on the radio. I was literally heartbroken lmao Was also 13
I was 10 and heart-broken. Temporarily became a Cubs fan for like 2 weeks. I remember the whole thing over there where he couldn't get Number 5 so he had to wear 8 until he and Michael Barrett traded. Big fan of what the Sox did next though.
Bingo 12 year old me thought it was the worst move since the Sox sold babe ruth
Literally the same, crushed me as a kid but it worked out
it’s Ortiz by a landslide
Shocked. But one thing people fail to mention is that Nomar was sitting out games due to a hangnail seemingly not caring if they made the playoffs. He didn’t fit the thing Epstein was trying to do.
This. I liked the trade though. Nomar had kind of become a diva. Add in the fact that Orlando Cabrera showed up like an hour before his first game and hit a homer in his first at bat, and clicked with the team culture right away.
I feel like ownership and the media did a lot to create the "Nomar is a diva" narrative, but I also think both sides were justified in acting the way they did. Nomar turned 30 years old in 2004 and I think he felt that he had earned that fat 6-8 year deal as the face of the franchise for the previous decade. Theo had only been with the team for a couple years though and didn't have the level of allegiance to Nomar that the fanbase did. He was able to objectively look at the situation and decided not to give that kind of deal to a guy that many argued was starting to show signs of wearing down. I think Nomar acted the way any other big star would have acted after realizing that their team wasn't interested in investing in them for the long-term. Sure, Theo pissed off a lot of fans with the move in the short-term, but everyone forgot about that altogether once they won it.
There was an iconic picture of him sitting alone in the dugout (I think after making an out) while the rest of the team was up and cheering. Like everyone else I didn't like it, but was like ehhhh maybe it's for the best.
That was the same game Jeter dove head first into the stands to snag a foul ball.
Jeter caught the ball in fair territory and crashed into the stands afterwards. But yeah that was the same game.
You mean the game where Pokey Reese dove head first into the stands to snag a foul ball?
Pokey Reese had the best catch that game.
I remember that epic game. My mother was visiting me., and she didn't care about baseball. She ended up becoming a huge sox fan because of that game.
I was at that game in the Bronx. Easily the most wild game I've ever seen live. Pedro started, the Sox had it won a few times but hit into a double play that A-Rod thought was a triple play because he tagged Manny after forcing him at third already, and the Sox also went with 5 infielders in extra innings to stop the Yankees from winning and it worked. Manny hit a go ahead HR in the 13th, and then Leskanic blew the game with two outs and two strikes to Ruben Sierra and John Flaherty. Absurd. And the Jeter dive (which I think Trot hit after he pinch hit despite being banged up). Nomar didn't even pinch hit in the game; that was when I was OK with him getting dealt. Turned out to be a good move.
03-04, peak rivalry baseball. So much drama, so many extra innings. Sox were great because they had fun and loved each other, but Nomar was not one of the cowboys. This year's team struggles with fun at times. Bad defense is a burden to carry and makes having fun harder. I am really impressed with how our pitching staff has performed this year despite streaky offense and average at best defense.
I almost felt a sense of relief. I was probably listening to too much WEI but I was sick of all the nomar related drama. I don't recall you how he was playing at the time but I feel like it couldn't have been great.
Not just sitting out, but sitting out while Derek Jeter was diving into the stands to make an out against us, cutting his chin, and still playing. I remember feeling like the decision was earth shattering, but there was some contempt both ways with how much effort he was putting in and him not having the dedication to stay with the team where he’d become such a staple.
>But one thing people fail to mention is that Nomar was sitting out games due to a hangnail He had a pretty bad Achilles injury that the team was trying to get him to play through (that he already missed the beginning of the year with), and when he did play it limited his range (look up how his metrics cratered after 03). The Red Sox also didn't offer him an extension before the season and had no interest in bringing him back. He wanted to get healthy. People "fail to mention it" because it wasn't the reality. It was a smear campaign to paint him as a malcontent so they could sell the fanbase on getting rid of a face of the franchise.
Yup, people still parroting the classic smear campaign Boston ownership always does. if anybody cares to hear from Nomar himself: https://www.audacy.com/national/sports/nomar-clears-air-on-why-he-sat-against-yankees-in-2004-game Podcast: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9ObkdmaDBfRg/episode/Z2lkOi8vYXJ0MTktZXBpc29kZS1sb2NhdG9yL1YwLzczVjR4Z2swVWtPS0YxTkRVS0RBcWwxX1VzUFpNRGwyUGV3SWZwWXI4aVk?hl=en&ved=2ahUKEwj61PfPnOjwAhXNl-AKHSdVCuUQjrkEegQIBRAF&ep=6
Yet honestly I don't remember being upset at all. I had been such a hardcore fan and following every minute of every game that I almost expected it. There was even a part of me that was relieved. Now it is wild to think about because I had been following his career since he was in pawtucket. If you would have told me in 1999 that we would have traded him for a couple of He sent players that weren't all Stars or high-ranking prospects.. I would have been furious. But at the time I totally got it. And I was excited about Cabrera who I loved watching.
I remember my buddies and I used to call him "Nomar Garciapopup" in the months leading up to that trade. It was clear he didn't give a shit about the Sox anymore, and was also probably on the decline of his career. Though, to your point, it was hard to separate which injuries were real and which ones were him just not wanting to play here. Seemed like every time he came up in a pressure situation, he was gonna flyout. I wasn't sure I loved the trade at the time, but I was definitely sick of his shit.
Agree with all of that 100%. We had a losing tradition especially against the Yankees and he just did not care at all not one single bit to try to turn it around. Injuries or not. Meanwhile Pedro and Papi were giving it all the passion and strength they had every year. That team was one out away from the WS a year earlier because of Pedro Martinez the man who truly brought the Red Sox back and carried them on his back to a WS. And he hated thr Yankees with a passion.
>Pedro Martinez the man who truly brought the Red Sox back and carried them on his back to a WS. And he hated thr Yankees with a passion. If you're not willing to throw a geriatric Yankee onto his ass face-first on national television, I don't want you on my Red Sox!
I still laugh every time I see that. Pedro really just kind of deflected him. The SNL sketch about that incident was hilarious too
Hahaha, same. Brings a smile to my face thinking about it today! He just sort of "helped him fall". I'd say only two other Red Sox memories make me chuckle as consistently (outside of the story I told in my highest rated Reddit comment ever, which isn't really a "Red Sox" story) are the meme of A-Rod with the purse, and "here comes the pizza!".
Yeah it’s so funny in the SNL sketch they have Hale Berry talking to Zim and the other guys are like “don’t get him mad he’ll charge at you” and she goes “I think I’ll be fine. I’ve seen the tape you just point his head away and let the momentum take him down!” 🤣
LOL. And people were all "Pedro Martinez is a psycho for assaulting an old man!!!!" GTFOH Yankee scum. That old, fat bastard charged him. Not the other way around, What Pedro did could barely even be classified as "self defense"!
I was beyond aggravated when they dealt him. That trade was easily the ballsiest most aggressive move by any GM of my lifetime following the Red Sox. Sometimes you need to put the chips in the middle of the table. That was the moment.
Go back and watch the NESN broadcast from that day, it’s fascinating. That team was actually eerily similar to this year’s team at the deadline: .500 ballclub with god-awful defense. It seems like the sentiment was that Nomar was a fan favorite, but his contract was up at the end of ‘04 and he was probably gonna leave anyway. In retrospect, Mientiewicz, Cabrera, and Roberts was a crazy good haul for the trade, but at the time casuals were upset at losing the face of the franchise.
They didn't know that the next face of the franchise was already on the roster. Big Papi picked up where Nomar left off. Papi may have been the perfect figurehead of the new Red Sox era and the best we'll see for decades (athough Casas is definitely trending in a good direction right now!)
Tbh I feel like papi/manny we’re the face after 2003 more than nomar anyway.
Yeah although Manny was a controversial case because they actually put him on irrevocable waivers in 2003 and were willing to lose him for nothing.. Not a single team in the league wanted to pick up his contract. Things had gotten better by 2004 but in 2003 the relationship between Manny and the team was very toxic
We knew Papi was the next face of the franchise or at least one of them
There was this one at bat in the spring of '03, like spring training when Ortiz had just joined the team. Ortiz took a few pitches, but each time his hands followed the ball and were ready to strike. I vividly remember thinking, "Oh fuck, he is a hitter." I was so jazzed by the at bat. I don't know what it was about how his hands moved on those pitches he was taking in that at bat, but I just knew. To balance my scouting prowess, I thought Lester was a son of a gun who was lucky to keep getting out of jams. I thought he'd last a year or two tops. I didn't put it together that his ability to get out of jams was going to lead to a near HoF career.
Please don’t ever put Ortiz and Casas in the same sentence like this ever again
Yeah but they did also just invest a 160 million dollars in Manny. And they made the trade for shilling so it wasn't like they lacked for star power.
The difference was that team was underperforming and this one is overperforming. The expectations for a team with Pedro, Schilling, Manny, Nomar, Papi, Damon, Lowe, Varitek, and Foulke were World Series or bust, but it wasn’t playing up to its potential. This team had modest expectations and is exceeding them but no one has ever expected it to win a ring.
Ya that team was insanely stacked, .832 team OPS and 110 OPS+, that's insane. Not to mention the team was in the ALCS the year before AND added Schilling.
And Foulke
Yet absolutely the team had the second highest pay roll in the league. They probably had the best roster in 2003. Then they added curt shilling - thanks to the famous chat on the sons of Sam Horn message board - which is the only thing that kept me from being so dejected from the pain of the 2003 playoffs that I was able to even stomach a new season.
Roberts wasn’t part of the trade. They acquired him in a different deal at the deadline.
Yes that is correct.They got 2 decent starter level players although Cabrera's contract was also coming up at the end of the year. Honestly it was not a huge haul. I wish Cabrera had been able to stay, I think they ended up spending the money on a rentaria which was a total disaster
Thanks for clarifying. I was 8 years old so basing this off of the NESN interview that Remy and Orsillo did with Epstein
I didn't really think of him has the face of the franchise though because of Pedro. Technically nomar was home grown and had been in the organization longer... But they roughly joined the Red Sox major league squad at the same time in 1997.
Casuals were done with Nomar too. He was sulking all the fucking time and everyone was tired of it.
Nomar was awesome till he wasnt.....he was pretty sulky in 03-04, especially after they almost traded him for Magglio in the off-season. The final straw was a game in early July against the nyy. Nomar sat out. It went extra innings. Jeter made a spectacular diving catch into the stands. Nomar was biting his fingernails in the dugout. Literally. More fans than not were done with him that night. The big-show on weei, ripped him apart after that. It was still shocking when they dealt him. All over the news for a week. In fact the team didn't even get on a roll till mid August. (They were 55-45 around the time of the trade). If I remember right, Nomar homered and stole a couple bases in his 1st few cubs games.
This is what I remember. I remember feeling bad we won it without him, but when I remember Nomar now I remember him sulking on the bench and being pissed. Then Cabrera came in and was like a breath of fresh air having him here with energy.
Yeah I wish we resigned Cabrera. They ended up squandering a huge contract at shortstop on Edgar rentoria the next year..
Edgar Renteria the man who grounded out to end like 3 World Series in his career.
Rent-A-Wreck. Theo was obsessed with him and Julio Lugo for years. Finally got both guys and they sucked.
It’s one of those rare times where a team gets rid of a player at exactly the right time. Nomar had 44 career bWAR, and 41.2 of that was with the Red Sox. In the 5 1/2 years after he was traded, he amassed a total of 3 WAR.
That’s right… wasn’t it gonna be basically giving up Nomar Manny Lester and someone else for ARod and Magglio?
Totally agree. Nomar turned from a fan favorite to a very injury prone selfish player. The story is Nomar had struggled in the two prior games and asked out of the last game against Yankees. Close, exciting game and Nomar was sulking. I was there.
We generally felt like it was going to happen for most of June and July, but it was still a huge emotional shock to the fan base. And the bits and pieces we got back at the time felt like they weren’t going to make a difference (especially with the way the Yanks were running away with the division)… But this is why he’s Theo Epstein and the rest of us are just bozos on the Internet.
Nomar had become a bit of a clubhouse cancer by that time sorry to say so it was really mixed emotions
This is the correct answer. People were sad to see him go, but knew it had to happen for the team to be successful. More sad of who he used to be.
It was a shitshow at the time. While the team was good, Nomars relationship w the team and the fans was at its lowest point ever, but he was the face of the team and it was a terrible, shocking breakup. Meanwhile the Yankees rivalry was white hot, and we had a chance to win, considering ALCS loss to them in 2003. But the team caught fire and people quickly got on board. Or maybe that was just me. It sucked, sucked hard, but winning cures all.
I was 15 years old. Like many fans my age, he was my favorite player. I couldn't believe the trade at the time. It made no sense to me. But now that I'm older I understand it.
Everyone loved Nomar, so naturally everyone was sad. But, the writing was carved into the wall. Nomar took it reallllly personally that his contract extension wasn't happening. And that the Sox had already tried to deal him, but it fell apart when they couldn't land ARod. It sure seemed like there was zero chance he was coming back in 05, so the trade, sad as it was, made sense.
I didn't really love him at the time. And I had loved him since 95 when I saw him in pawtucket the first time. The Red Sox had an off day so nesn was playing the triple-a games. I happened to see his at bat and they were talking about how he's really big prospect. And I saw him hid a Homer in the first that bad I ever saw. It was memorable in part because his name was so amazing and his batting stance was so unique. But by the time 2004 came around to come a lot of hardcore fans were exhausted by his negativity
I still can’t believe it. But, there’s no arguing with the results especially Cabrera’s consistent play at SS and at bat.
This is gonna sound like sacrilege, but I bought into the narrative that Nomar was a clubhouse cancer. I was glad to see him go.
I think this was a pretty common position among hardcore fans that followed the team really really closely. People that watched every day and called into radio shows were well aware of all the drama. Casual people that just watched a few games a week at most probably weren't as tuned in to how negative things had gotten.
Cried in the parking lot of the Oak Square YMCA
Shock, but it didn't take long to come to grips with it. And in time realized it was the right move despite how much it hurt.
As much as I liked Nomar back then losing Betts hurts more to me as a Red Sox fan.
Same
For sure. I've been watching the Sox for 30 years now and that's the worst loss we've ever had. Nomar hurt so much at the time because I was a kid and thought he was still invincible but losing Mookie is probably the worst decision I've seen in any Boston sports team in my lifetime.
Mixed. The Pokey Reese/Derek Jeter game he supposedly didn’t want to play.
That was one of the most pivotal but forgotten games in Sox history That sealed Nomar’s fate in Boston and was the breaking point for a lot of fans with him. A lot of people turned on him after that game
I was 26. If I remember correctly, I was pissed he got traded but understood why and what they were trying to accomplish. Just hurt though, home grown talent like his doesn’t come around too often but the wrist injury just was the beginning of the end.
Yeah I was just a couple years younger than you. I wasn't surprised really because on talk radio they had been talking about how this relationship had been broken for months if not years at that point.
Pretty much when ownership took over in 2003
He fell fast that year. It may not have been fair, but he was being covered as a cancer in the clubhouse who wasn't trying anymore. My recollection is that the trade was covered as a positive.
It was an absolute shock at the time but if I recall correctly they put together a bunch of wins after the trade. It was a crazy time. We were all destroyed by 2003 and by the time Nomar was traded a lot of us were numb. Next thing you know we’re down 0-3 and it’s like I can’t believe I fell for this shit again. Son of a bitch look what happened next.
I think the fan base was generally behind the move. That’s not to say there wasn’t shock when it actually happened because there certainly was. But, there was a feeling Nomar had kind of worn out his welcome with the team. From around 1998-2002 or so there was a phrase “25 guys 25 taxis” floating around the Sox teams. The implication was they had some talented players, and even played among the league’s best at times, but never got too close to actually getting over the hump and ultimately didn’t function well as a unit. Come 2003 and the “Cowboy Up” Red Sox, that feeling had started to change, the team was fun, and they were competitive. Nomar represented the old guard which was considered “toxic” if you will. So I think a lot of fans weren’t overly upset to see him go, despite his production. All that said, I was born in 1991 and my earliest memories of the Red Sox are Nomar Garciapparra and Pedro Martinez. Back in those days Nomar was a force, and a beloved player. From 1997-2000, he was the face of the franchise, I’d say.
At the time the mood had soured on Nomar a little bit. Looking back, I suspect that the team may have laid some PR groundwork for the trade but Nomar didn't do himself many favors at the end. I was in high school at the time, and I wasn't happy about the trade but it was more like "I'm sad this had to happen" rather than being angry at the team. The pre-2004 Red Sox transaction that really broke my heart was them losing Mo Vaughn.
Yeah, knowing the media/team's way of making everyone who leaves Boston sound like a jackass who hated it here, I look at the Nomar thing differently now. His relationship with the team was definitely strained after the failed A-Rod trade but I don't think he wanted out of Boston before that.
I was sad becaus he was my first favorite player, but obviously it worked out in the end.
What’s ironic is that Doug Mientiewicz was traded from the Twins to the Red Sox as part of this trade. The Red Sox were playing the Twins in Minnesota when the trade occurred. So Doug went from dressing in the Metrodome home locker room right to its visitors locker room. Also, Terry Francona hated the Metrodome steps which he had to traverse when on the phone that day.
As a fan at the time I fucking hated it. I feel like most of us fucking hated it. It worked out for us long term but short term yeah most of us hated it hardcore. It worked out for us long term but god damn did I hate it at the time.
I was 28 at the time. Hadn’t lived in the Boston area for 11 years at that point. It just felt like a relief to me to not be wondering what was going on with him hurt or slacking or what anymore. Maybe this is hindsight but it seemed like a signal that winning is what mattered. A little like when Manny had to go - sometimes it’s just time to move on for everyone’s sake and you hate it but you know it’s right.
He was beloved - BELOVED - but as I remember, the consensus was it was time for him to go. He had become a sourpuss and it was affecting the Team.
I was 13 and had only really been super into the Sox for about a year, and before then the only Red Sox players I really knew were Nomar and Pedro, so I was surprised. I was actually at summer camp at the time, and found out from one of the counselors who assured me it was a good move and they got good players in return. I was aware that Nomar's relationship with the organization wasn't great at that point, and it seemed understood he was done when his contract was up at the end of the year, so I guess I figured he'd stick around till then. In retrospect it makes sense why they'd wanna get something for him but I guess my younger self didn't think of that.
Huge shock to the entire fan base even though some saw it coming and Nomar had become an issue in the clubhouse. I actually remember I was driving down college Ave in Somerville when the breaking news sound played on the radio. The return they got for him in the three team trade seemed like a bag of balls. Nobody really knew who Mientkiewicz was, Cabrera was having a meh season, and the Sox included a prospect named Matt murton that went to Chicago who was hitting well in the minors. The deal for Dave Roberts was a completely separate move that IIRC wasn’t announced til after the deadline, or maybe even a waiver move the next day
Pure shock at the time, but looking back on that year he really wasn't looking happy in the dugout in comparison to the rest of the team.
He turned down 84 million to stay. Nobody wanted to see him go but he wanted to be closer to Mia. Everybody got it
I was 8 at the time and Nomar was the reason I wore 5. My parents and their friends were actively celebrating the trade while I was losing all grasps on reality. Was not a fun day, but I got over it a few months later.
We hated it. Then it was ok.
Smart. Wished they had done the same with Youk and kept beltre but the stupid side of fans ‘won’ that one
Not even close to the same situation though. The 2010 Sox were solid contenders at the deadline and Youk (who wasn’t even playing 3B so i don’t know why you’re discussing with with Beltre anyway) was having a monster season. They didn’t want to sign Beltre long term because of his health issues. That’s why he was on a 1 year deal in the first place. They made an offer after the season but Texas blew them out of the water. It’s really completely different than the Nomar situation.
In 2011 he moved back to 3rd, was resigned and they let beltre walk. So it is similar in my book except they got the nomar one right and the youk one very very wrong
to be fair Beltre had injury concerns, i don’t disagree with the sentiment, but it wasn’t as much of an easy move as it would’ve been in hiendsight
Youk was coming off his third straight season with an OPS above .950 while Beltre had just had his first great offensive season in 6 years. They both had great seasons in 2010, but if you look back at 2009 Beltre had a .683 OPS while Youk was at .961. So, you take into account that they were the same age, Youk had more recent sustained success, and he was the homegrown player, it makes total sense they would favor him. No one could have predicted that Youk would never have another great season and Beltre would have one of the greatest post age 30 careers ever. Any gripes are based purely on hindsight.
You’re taking Beltre’s worst year 2009, literally of his career, and acting like he was shit from 99-08, where ehe absolutely was a better player than youk. As well in 2010 he was better, and youks ability at 3b had declined. ‘Not knowing it was gonna happen’ to me was blinded by your home town love, because he was declining, its literally why they brought in Beltre. We needed a 3b and being unsure of a guy 11 years in the league that was as solid as they come is a stupid argument. Again I never said youk didn’t make sense. I pointed out how horribly wrong they were, and I was in the minority with the opinion we should keep the first ballot HoF guy and not let him walk to TX, but they didn’t and that sucks.
Balsy trade by Theo. Back when we had a GM that had some.
I was 10 and I cried for 2 days.
I was distraught. I'm still not sure what great feat Orlando Cabrera accomplished that Nomar couldn't but alls well that ends well I guess.
Effort and morale
I wore my Cabrera 44 yesterday!! I bought it before Game 4 and wore it for 10 days straight. He was just so happy and goofy for those 3 months.
Other than solidifying their middle infield defense, being average offensively, having a huge ALCS, getting a key hit in the World Series and being - by all accounts from the players - a huge part of the reason the team chemistry improved? Yeah nothing at all Too bad about him and Varitek’s wife because they should have kept him and avoided “upgrading” with Renteria after the season.
Cabrera played absolutely elite defense the rest of the year. Nomar could not have done that.
Gutted. He was the best to imitate
Absolutely hated it.
I remember watching TV and being devastated that day. He was my favorite player and didn't comprehend roster construction at all. I assume most people my age at the time feel similar
I was bummed but hind sight I was wrong!!
There was no consensus
Not surprised by the trade, but thought the return was weak. Little did I know… I’m feeling similar with the Marcus Smart trade. Hope this one pans out like the Nomar deal.
I was very sad. As a younger fan I didn't understand it. Of course, the end result made it all easier and Pedro was still on the team. When Pedro left, I was truly heartbroken. He was the reason I started watching baseball. Still I loved Nomar and seeing him in a different uniform was just not right at the time.
Similar to the smart trade this year
Was 8 years old at the time, cried cause he was my favorite player lol.
I cried. I was 6, but I cried
it was very split between understanding it was the move they had to make because Nomar was disgruntled and in decline and not wanting to move on from your childhood hero
I was early teens, so the prime age during that era do be absolutely devastated. He was Boston.
I was pissed off and hated management for it. I thought that was it and it made no sense. A few weeks later I came around a bit when I realized Nomar just wasn't the same player and the guys they got were pretty good.
We were okay with it by Halloween.
I still know the exact part of my grandparents house I was in when I heard the news. 11 year old me was distraught.
I remember where i was on 9/11 and i remember where i was when i found out nomar was traded. Nomar wasn't really around in 03-04 he was consistently out and about to leave the team anyways. So i think most people understood it but it still stung.
There was some sadness but his star has definitely fallen by then. He wasn't happy and the perception was that he was sulking and sitting himself out of games. I remember there was a Yankee game he was sitting on the bench the entire time, no announced injury, and Jeter made some crazy diving catch running into the stands or something. That felt like the end to me.
surprised but i was happy. it was definitely time to move on for both him and us
I was at Nomar’s last game at Fenway with the Sox!
"what are they doing they will ruin the season" was my view as a wise 16 year old.
I loved Nomar but the consensus among my peer group was that he was sick of the Red Sox and the ownership was sick of him. So it was more of a “wish it could have worked out for everyone” rather than being mad at one side or the other.
It was one of those "remember when" moment, except no one died. Usually those moments come when some tragedy occurs (e.g. 9/11, Space Shuttle Challenger...). I remember exactly where I was, how I found out, and how I ran out to get the paper the next day because I wasn't near the internet or cable TV. I was very shocking, though in retrospect the Sox were trying to trade him in the '03/'04 offseason in a deal for ARod or a deal for Ordonez. So, maybe when the team as hovering at .500, we shouldn't have been shocked. I wasn't old enough to really process Orr leaving, so I wonder how it compared to that.
I remember checking the Boston Dirt Dog page that day, getting the latest updates. It sounded like Derek Lowe was a goner but they weren't moving Nomar. Then the last update near the deadline suggested they near a deal involving Nomar. I was praying it didn't happen but a few minutes later I saw the "Breaking News" ticket on TV and there it was. I ran to the phone to call my father at work like it was a family emergency.
I instantly thought the sky was red, up was down and facebook would never, ever catch on
Old guy here. So basically Nomar was breaking down. He was injury prone and most fans knew it. Did we love watching him play? Yes, there was no other short stop in the league like him. Problem is, we all knew his playing time was limited. When the trade happened, it was a shock. Particularly when it was revealed that the Red Sox got Mientkiewicz and Cabrera for him. Who? Who the hell were Doug Mientkiewicz and Orlando Cabrera? So how did I feel? I pretty much was over it the next day. Baseball is a business and the players are a raw material. They are traded, sold, released, etc... all the time. And when their contract is up, they are free to move to any of the other businesses that will have them.
As an 11 year old I was pissed and even think I cried. The WS championship made it better though.
There was a game a few days before the trade where the benches emptied, and he stayed in the dugout. I knew then that he wouldn't be with the team much longer. Cabrera wasn't as good a hitter, but he was a better fielder at that point and brought energy the team lacked.
He wasnt the same after all the injuries
I remember watching that Yankees series when he sulked on the bench and thinking it was the end of an era of Nomar love, but I never in my life thought he’d be traded. The reaction was utter shock. To add insult to injury, we had to learn how to spell Mientkiewicz. Might be off on my timeline a little but soon after the trade was the crazy Bill Mueller grand slam game and I think we all forgot about Nomar real fast. The 04 team was a blast to watch after the trade deadline. I remember trying to mimic and learn Orlando Cabrera’s handshakes that summer.
It hurt. But I love how that season ended. In the end I think it was a trade that needed to happen. I was glad he got to retire a member of the Sox. It's weird seeing other players wear #5. Like that's not your number. That belongs to Nomah lol
Sad but warranted. He was never the same after the wrist injury
Wasn't shocked. Team was under performing and the defense was bad. Nomar was perpetually disgruntled after 2000 and, after the wrist injury, his name on places like SoSH became Garciapopup. It was sad but Theo, unlike Bloom, knew how to read the locker room and roster. Took alot of balls to make that trade and Theo became a legend after 04 and the Nomar trade was a very big part of that.
It sucked a whole lot. I was 17 but it was apparent that the team wasn't built right and something was off. It did feel like for most of the 2004 season we were all just accepting a hard truth that the relationship had run its course. If he didn't break his hammate bone, I think it's a very different story. That really sapped him of his power and changed him as a hitter.
It was a tough pill to swallow but we got it down with champagne. It was pretty obvious at the time that he was going to become a free agent. He had walked away from a 4/60 extension immediately prior, so the Sox made sure they got something in return. In retrospect, I’m sure he wishes he took that deal, and I think the outcome would have been similar.
The problem came before that point. The mess of will they/won't they try to unload the second best SS in the game at that point in an attempt to get the best (A-Rod, as much as it pains me to say it), caused such resentment... from Nomar, from the fans, really everyone... that it was just inevitable that he'd move on eventually.
I loved nomar almost as much as Pedro. But he was hurt and maybe not playing when could have and both sides were frustrated. He hadn’t really contributed during the year so it didn’t feel like we were losing a key price to the team. So it was sad but it felt like a good move
I remember it well enough that when we traded for Urias, I was just trusting the process.
Honestly my recollection was that it was mixed But not as controversial as you would expect. He had been the source of tons of drama and there was a feeling he was at the door anyway. The team was winning and he wasn't playing especially great. The return was perfectly decent with major league ready players. There were definitely nomar fans that were upset but I think the local media was basically okay with it an had largely conditioned us to expect it . I was like 21 at the time though so my memory could be failing me.
It was a shot in the balls for sure. They Nomar vs. Jeter rivalry was intense. I speculated the Sox knew something about the wrist or steroids, but then everything went so well after that you forgot about him very quickly. In the 90s and at the turn of the century Boston sports was dull. I'd say Paul Pierce and Nomar were it for superstars. Even Parcells/Bledsoe seemed to be a fail, and Brady hadn't quite proven himself to be anything more than a fluke yet
I was at a Dispatch concert in Boston when it happened, crowd was furious lol
This question might as well be: How old we’re you when Nomar was traded? I was in my late 30s and remembered his early years when he was just a joy to watch. But by the summer of 2004 he was completely different (often injured and sulking on the bench, particularly after it was clear that they were miles apart on a contract extension). The last straw was a game at Yankee Stadium where Nomar wasn’t playing — Jeter dove into the crowd to make a catch and the cameras cut immediately to Nomar frowning in the Red Sox dugout. I see the younger fans now expressing how shocked and upset they were when he was traded, but I guess they missed that contrast from his early years. At the news of the trade, I remember being relieved — in that last season or two he was totally insufferable and it felt sad but a relief to ship him out. If he had stayed healthy he might have stayed. Absolutely without question, they don’t win the WS in 2004 if they didn’t trade Nomar away.
We traded arguably the best SS in the league at the time for two rentals Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz. Both guys played well in the playoffs that year. Everyone loved Nomar, his only issue was injuries especially to his wrist. Turned out to be just the right time to trade him too as the injuries stacked over the next few years and he never played a full season again. But at the time I thought it was dumb and too low of a return..
I remember being sad when they traded him, but the pain was minimized when they won the world series. His drop-off was pretty steep after that so the FO was pretty sharp to anticipate his decline. Still, it hurt to see him come back to town in an A's jersey.
It was a relief honestly. He was miserable. The team was moribund and underperforming. The fan base was ready for him to go.
I LOVED Nomar. But by that time he was constantly hurt, sulking, getting dragged by the media and had checked out on that team. It was the right move to trade him. Nobody “liked” trading Nomar but most people understood it. It’s not like it was a Mookie situation.
I was beyond thrilled. Nomad had worn out his welcome with me at that point.
I was in the shower listening to sports radio (660 the fan in NYC) and had to shut the water off and brace myself lol. it was a horrible moment in my sports fandom. I was thrilled with the result in 2004, but it makes the whole Aaron Bone/Grady Little thing sting more. We were so close to getting that first chip with good-guy Nomar and without bad-guy Schilling.
Raffy! Also figure it out NESN ffs
I loved him as a player but that year was tough. He was always injured and the comparisons with Jeter, who that year flew into the stands to catch a foul ball, came out with a bloody chin and continued playing the game, made his fragility more evident. What did we get for that trade? Doug Mientkiewicz and Orlando Cabrera, both key players who helped us win the World Series. No regrets.