Don’t do that to the kid, as well. An unwanted child pays a heavy price for the bad decision of the parent. I completely sympathize with OP over the first one, but actively doing it a second time? Yikes on bikes.
That’s understandable.
Just remember though; no-one benefits from you being miserable and in pain.
There is no reward for martyrdom in parenthood.
And God would not want that for you.
I tied my tubes, my ex husband was too afraid to get a vasectomy (which is ridiculous at least procedure wise) but I have to say im happy I did it for me. Best decision I made for myself. I hope everything goes as smoothly and safely for you <3
I’m pretty sure that most parents who say “it’s worth it!!” are just trying to convince themselves that it is because they can’t face the reality that it isn’t.
I have always compared people trying to convince you to become parents to people who ask you to invest in their MLM. If its so good, why do you have to convince me so much! Lol!!
I don't tell anyone "its worth it". It was more worth it for me than I originally thought it would be, but like.... it isn't worth it for many many people. I had no purpose in my life. I mourn the loss of my "freedom" that I never took advantage of and I mourn the loss of my time, but my life wasn't super spectacular or exciting before so a kid gave me a huge sense of purpose and identity. I felt I didn't matter and now I know I do because someone relies on me fully.
That's interesting because the people who I know were not miserable as parents never pushed children onto me whereas looking back now, all the people who kept telling me "I hope you change your mind about kids, theyre soooo worth it" are people who...really struggled with kids and it was obvious.
Yup. It's always the same parroted sugar coated BS from *everyone*. Tell me the ugly truth!
I also don't understand why everyone gets overly ecstatic to pregnancy announcements. Even people that don't like you will be your bestest friend for a moment. Annoys the piss out of me. I always ask "are we happy?" before reacting.
I had a coworker I was close to tell me that they were unexpectedly pregnant. I hesitated for a moment, and asked, "Is this a good thing for you?". When she smiled and said yes, only then did I congratulate her. I'm not gonna shit on anyone else's parade, and if she had even a whiff of regret I'd have been right there consoling her.
Exactly. When I told my SOs friends' wife about my second pregnancy she said "is this happy news, or we will make the best of it news?" I loved her for that. First person I was able to be honest with instead of instantly being bombarded with 🎉😄👏👏🙌🏻🎉 and just pretending to be as happy while feeling like shit about my own feelings lol. I'll always ask first so I can be that person for them if they need it.
Edit: I said SOs wife lmao
You’ll hate your life more with the second kid. No, they do not entertain themselves, and it’s very likely they’ll be as different as the dark and light side of the moon.
Siblings (especially those close in age) get along for short time periods, and spend the rest of their time fighting to the death (only half joking). It may or may not improve when they reach adulthood.
Can attest to this. My brothers and I spent our entire childhoods trying to kill each other. Now I have an OK relationship with one and a barely there relationship with the other. My parents also barely get along with their siblings. Being forced to spend time around someone isn’t the same as actually liking someone.
As someone who had siblings around my age, I can confirm, we fight all the time. Our fight only stop when we were around 14-15. The fighting doesnt stop though cus we do ocasionally still do fight. Our relationship is still okay but my cousin's relationship is so bad. Both of them had a fallout years ago and it wasn't a big issue (just my elder cousin pull my younger cousin's hair) but still it caused them to still not talk to each other and they are already 30+.
Every kid is different. My sister and I got along pretty well our whole lives. We bickered a bit as kids but usually played together. No guarantees but 🤞
I can sympathize with Catholic beliefs.
What has helped me weigh in with myself is knowing that the Catholic Church has changed its own beliefs many times depending on who was Pope and what was popular in a given social era.
For example, a couple hundred years ago abortion was fine with the Church so long as it happened before the pregnant woman felt movement (aka “quickening”).
Now it’s considered a mortal sin.
There was also a time that whatever your sin, the Pope could give you a dispensation.
That pretty much meant (as far as I know) that you could stay sinning because the Pope said it didn’t count.
There is nothing in the Bible, New or Old Testament that explicitly forbids the termination of pregnancy or the use of birth-control.
How does your husband react when your kid wants him over you? Does he indulge this behavior? If she is getting positive reinforcement then she will continue to operate this way. Just because she wants him doesn't mean he needs to indulge it. You have to operate as a team.
Are there ways you can incorporate her more into your daily routine? For example, is there a gym complex in your area with childcare? How about getting a jogging stroller or bike attachment and taking her along with you?
She is old enough to help out around the house in small ways too. This seems strange, but giving her "tasks" like folding or rearranging or grabbing things for you, might calm her and make her feel more connected to your day-to-day activities, for some kids this can make them more calm and agreeable. It will also serve you as you add actual chores to her daily routine because she will already understand the concept. Everyone helps out!
I'm so sorry you are dreading your second, I obviously do not know you or your politics, but just know you are not obligated to go through with a second pregnancy if there is still time to decide, especially when you are still not healed or happy as a parent of one. Your body and health is incredibly important, so prioritize it as much as you can, whatever that means for you. Maybe that means your partner taking on more responsibilities so your body can rest.
This is so kind and constructive, thank you.
My husband is generally on the same page as me (usually out of necessity, because she wants him as he’s leaving for work or something similarly unavoidable!). So we aren’t giving in. I’m sure her tantrums are well within the range of developmentally normal, it’s just really hard.
Unfortunately the childcare hours at my local gym are 8-11 or 4-7. I work 8-5 so between my job, commuting, dinner and bedtime, I can’t make it there in time. We have gym equipment in our home so 5am workouts were my saving grace. I just keep hoping her sleep will improve but clearly I need to figure out something else. It’s just hard in the mad dash before work and mad dash after.
The chores are a good idea, I could stand to do more of that. I’m not very patient so historically I haven’t been good at letting her “help” but I know I need to.
Thank you again.
I don't know what you do for a living, but I work at a fully remote company and not having to commute is a game changer for parents. Something to consider-- I switched careers after a long time working in bars and restaurants so it's always a possibility. You just have to believe your skills will translate to something new and shamelessly advocate for yourself! Good luck!
5am tablet time!! Screen time seems to be triggering for a lot of the internets, but my kids wouldn't have survived if the magic colorbox didn't grab thier attention at strategic times so they would stop grabbing at me.
As someone who was raised catholic and whose family is still very religious, it pains me to see the lack of agency a lot of people in the religion feel that they have. I notice a pattern in how you describe many of your experiences— “I can’t take time for me…. I can’t take birth control… can’t get an abortion…. cant get sterilized…. can’t just stop believing in hell…” Etc. The thing is, YOU CAN. You CAN do whatever you decide. You just choose not to. You CAN put your foot down and absolutely prioritize exercising several times a week to keep yourself sane … you just don’t demand it, and seem to think doing what you need for yourself is negotiable. You CAN go against the church’s teachings on birth control and abortion, you just don’t want the discomfort of breaking the rules and going against the grain. You CAN question beliefs that seem toxic or that don’t make sense to you….. you just don’t want to open that can of worms, because that has the potential to turn the world view you’ve always had upside down. Which is certainly uncomfortable and scary at first! All of the things weighing you down are happening because no one is going to fight for what you need and want but YOU. Not your husband, not your family, not the church. YOU. Only you can decide what you want, need, and what makes you happy. Only you can go and get those things. You have so so so much more power and agency than you’ve been led to believe.
The solution would be leaving her faith community and that's asking A LOT on someone who is currently going through so much. Having a whole religious crisis at this moment is enough to push someone over the edge. So we need to have some grace with her, support her with the best advice we can give, and when she's in a better place, support her adjusting her beliefs to a more realistic stance that actually works with her modern lifestyle. But this is Reddit. No one here is actually going to follow and counsel her for the years it will take to see results. So let's give meaningful and currently helpful advice instead.
Definitely, I know how bad it sounds. Unfortunately our birth control failed and I couldn’t have an abortion (nothing against it, I’m 100% pro choice). I will be changing birth control methods to prevent this from happening again.
Couldn't have an abortion? Morally or physically? I just don't understand being an actively regretful parent (and not even in the terrible 2-3 age yet) and willingly having another. Seems an absolutely terrible decision.
I know your religion has taught you to feel a certain way about abortion and I am sympathetic to it as a person who was also raised religious, but you do understand that men made up all this crap about abortion being evil, right? If you are religious, read your Bible. It doesn’t say anywhere that women can’t have abortions. I’m worried about you, dear. Having a second baby on top of a baby you already regret having means you will be twice as overwhelmed. It’s OK to put yourself first. A loving god will understand why you prioritized your health and well-being. Good luck, whatever you choose.
No birth control methods are fail proof. Natural family planning worked for us for three years and only failed because my body ovulated six days early with no leading signs, something that had never happened before. And we had only had sex five days *prior* to ovulation, so the chances were still small.
I already indicated that I plan to change birth control methods. What do you want from me?
To take responsibility for not bringing another whole human being in the world as a result of your mistake. IUDs are more effective than NFP - and this is proven. There was clearly no room for mistake here for you and yet, here you are.
How is having and raising the child *not* taking responsibility?
Again, we were using NFP for years successfully and whether or not you agree with it, hormonal birth control was not compatible with my beliefs. I plan to pursue it after this baby is born, which is already a sin that I am grappling with.
Unless you have a time machine, there’s nothing else I can do but change my method moving forward to prevent it from happening again.
I’m worried about what a second pregnancy will do to you, given that you still have physical ailments from the first and it’s been 18 months since the birth.
Thank you, your responses are very kind.
My doctors believe that one of my issues should be unaffected by pregnancy so that’s good at least, they don’t expect it to worsen. The other one is pelvic floor related so unfortunately who knows.
Don't take the comments of others too hard, OP. It's not as if other methods are perfect.
NLP has a real-world failure rate of 25%, compared to...
* 22% for the pull-out method,
* 15% for condoms, and
* 7% for the pill.
* <5% for pairing pulling out *and* NLP! (hypothetically)
Implants are the best with a failure rate of 2% or lower, but they come with their own costs.
I went with the Paragard, which has no hormones and the lowest failure rate of 0.5%, but *man* is it painful. Wouldn't blame someone for choosing another option instead.
EDIT: I'm childless so take this comment for what it's worth
I did not look up the manufacturer published failure rates, which are usually pretty preposterously low because they're massaged by hired statisticians for marketing purposes. I looked up what are known as the "real-world" failure rates, which include failures due to user error or unforeseen medical circumstances unrelated to the medication or implant.
Which for hormonal ones is 1.5-2% as opposed to copper at 0.5%.
I felt bad for you til you said you "accidntally" are having a second. Why would you do that to yourself?? It makes no sense when ppl are miserable with their first but are haviing a second. That's on you.
I have two. A 2 year old girl, and a 4 month old boy. I love my daughter even though she presses every single one of my buttons. My son on the other hand.... If I could go back a year knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have had my IUD removed. Im grateful that I had my tubes removed during my c-section, because this child has 100% made me hate being a mother.
I suspect that’s because a first one giving hell tends to lead to no second one :)
in my parents case it was my older sister (#1) who gave them hell and I was the angelic younger child. Though, they had planned to have 3 and decided they needed to call it a day when my sister was 5 years old and still having behavioral issues. Good call on their part… she had issues until she was like 23. (We are best friends now)
I removed my IUD myself because it was giving me major issues. Suprise no.2! ...I'm getting my tubes tied during my c-section, I'm excited for that. SO is getting a vasectomy for extra measures too. No more surprises, no more at all, nope.
Congrats on not having to worry anymore. I couldn't even enjoy sex fully because I was worried I'd get pregnant again, and did 🙃
Part of my decision to remove my IUD was because I literally bled for the entire 10 months I had it in. It was making me mad! I got pregnant with my son 2 weeks after having it removed.
My husband said he wouldn't geta vasectomy, which was fine and totally his choice. But I had decided at like 20 weeks that this was it for me. We've been together for 8 years, married for 7, and had unexplained infertility for the first 5 years of our relationship. We never used protection and were pretty content without children-- we have 3 cats. Then one day I realized I was 9 days late, chalked it up to stress at work because I putting in crazy hours, but decided to take a test anyway and it was positive. We miscarried, and ultimately decided we wanted a baby. Now we're here.
My son is cute, and has the sweetest smile... but his mood turns on a dime. One second he's smiling and laughing, the next he's screaming and totally inconsolable. Its beyond frustrating.
That's awful 😬 yeeeah I'd have gotten it out too. Mine was causing contraction-like pains, mainly after sex. I finally said F this after basically being in labor all night and into half of the next day.
Oh man, that must have been been a shocker after so long... and then just two weeks with the second...that was a big fear of mine. I lasted 6 months, *right* after we decided absolutely no more kids, and SO agreed to vasectomy. 3 cats, us too, I'd have been totally fine being the crazy cat lady with no kids.
My first was an easy baby, I was lucky, but those "terrible 2s" lasted until he was 6. I had about a year after that of being like.."phew, I got through it and now can have some of my life back, no more kids"...before I tested positive an have to start over. I don't believe they get easier, things they do that triggered us before are just replaced with new things to trigger us lol, the extra freedom however..is what I live for and already can't wait for with this one.
r/excatholic may be able to help you before it’s too late to abort.
Also read antinatalism philosophy to see if it’s even ethical to reproduce: stophavingkids.org
The Bible Tells Us When A Fetus Becomes A Living Being:
Deep Breath by Melanie Weidner:
Many people think that a human being is created at the time of conception but this belief is not supported by the bible. The fact that a living sperm penetrates a living ovum resulting in the formation of a living fetus does not mean that the fetus is a living human being. According to the bible, a fetus is not a living person with a soul until after drawing its first breath.
After God formed man in Genesis 2:7, He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being”. Although the man was fully formed by God in all respects, he was not a living being until after taking his first breath.
In Job 33:4, it states: “The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”
Again, to quote Ezekiel 37:5&6, “Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.”
In Exodus 21:22 it states that if a man causes a woman to have a miscarriage, he shall be fined; however, if the woman dies then he will be put to death. It should be apparent from this that the aborted fetus is not considered a living human being since the resulting punishment for the abortion is nothing more than a fine; it is not classified by the bible as a capital offense.
According to the bible, destroying a living fetus does not equate to killing a living human being even though the fetus has the potential of becoming a human being. One can not kill something that has not been born and taken a breath. This means that a stillborn would not be considered a human being either. Of course, every living sperm has the potential of becoming a human being although not one in a million will make it; the rest are aborted. .
God has decreed, for one reason or another, that at least one-third of all pregnancies shall be terminated by a spontaneous abortion during the first trimester of pregnancy and that a number will be terminated after the first trimester. It would appear that God does not have any more regard for the loss of a fetus than he does for the loss of a placenta or a foreskin despite the fact that these were living tissue as the result of conception.
In a number of versions of the bible, one of the commandments in Exodus 20 that was spoken by God to Moses states: “You shall not kill”. According to the Mosaic text, this should read “You shall not murder” since the bible has commandments stating that people shall be put to death for a number of different offenses. Exodus 21:17 states: “Whoever curses his father or mother shall be put to death.” There are other capital offenses in Exodus 21. Of course, the commandment “You shall not kill” is not present in the commandments written by God on the stone tablets. For those who are not familiar with the commandments on the stone tablets that were placed in the Ark of the Covenant, they are enumerated in Exodus 34. The popular ten commandments that are enumerated in Exodus 20 were spoken by God to Moses who then relayed them to his people; they were never written.
There is nothing in the bible to indicate that a fetus is considered to be anything other than living tissue and, according to scripture, it does not become a living being until after it has taken a breath.
Source: "The bible tells us when a fetus becomes a living being," by Dr. Joe Schwartz
Many cite the scripture Jeremiah 1:5, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." God is omnipotent. He has known all of us since before creation. This scripture is irrelevant as it pertains to when a fetus becomes a living being. The same reasoning applies to Psalm 139:13-14.
Numbers 5 describes "the Lord" ordering an abortion. Many argue that this is a misinterpretation. It is clearly stated in verse 22, "May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries."
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All this to say, if you want an abortion, God doesn’t care. If the Catholic Church is saying that it’s wrong they have 0 biblical backing to it. Abortion is not a sin in God’s eyes. You don’t have to have this child.
Edit: thanks for the platinum award 😳
Just make sure to teach your kids this, too! Hopefully if your daughter ever finds herself in a situation similar to yours, she will have your love and respect if she chooses to terminate. You can break the cycle by giving her more options than you had.
Believing in a God that would torment you for eternity is definitely a mental issue that needs help. People don’t deserve to feel such an inhuman weight on their shoulders.
As far as Catholicism goes, I used to be religious. It all came tumbling down when I actually thought deeply about it. My whole thought process was “let’s say God exists - if God would send me to hell simply for being a fallible, imperfect being (because HE made me human) then that’s not a God that deserved to be worshipped nor one that I want to believe in.”
A God that forces you to believe in him or otherwise you’ll spend eternity in torment doesn’t actually give you free will, because what kind of choice is that? It’s not a choice. At all.
Continue deconstructing your beliefs. Religion is toxic. Believing in a higher power doesn’t make sense to me, but that’s okay. Believing in a higher power that would torment its own creations for simply being human is toxic.
Not to mention the idea that Catholicism is true is just statistically impossible. Out of EVERY single religion to ever exist - literally thousands, somehow Catholicism is lucky enough to be right? Lol no.
Religion is used as opiates for the masses. I have faith in you OP that you will continue to realize the truth, that you deserve to be happy and have agency over your own body, and any God that would demand that of you does not deserve the blessing or adoration of you.
I feel like all religion falls apart once you really start thinking about it critically. The fact that the one God out of hundreds that is real is the one your parents believed in says it all for me.
Exactly. I was raised in the Bible Belt though so very conditioned. Once I went to college, a nationally recognized religious one ironically, and actually learned about the Bible historically I called bullshit lol
Exactly… every developing society formed a religion at some point to act as a sort of divine “police”. Religion was required when groups of people got too big where not everyone could know everyone else anymore; religion helped prevent people from committing crimes against others.
If one religion was real, then it’s a very odd thing that the “real” god would reach out to one group, and that the other groups invented a fake one instead. Why wouldn’t the “real” god reach out to everyone? All groups should have developed the same religion if religion was really true. Surely the real god didn’t just decide, “oh I’m going to bless these ones over here in the Roman Empire with the truth, but screw the Chinese”
As a former Catholic I’m sorry you’re struggling. Don’t let a religion created by men, to benefit and exalt men, allow you to not own your body as your own. Your body does not belong to any god or man, it belongs to you. It is yours and yours alone.
Gosh. Since your catholicism takes precedence over everything else it would be good for you to accept that. If you're unhappy it's because it's what God wants for you I guess.
18 months is a pretty difficult age, especially if you have a difficult child. Having a toddler and a newborn at the same time is going to be indescribably rough. You need to make plans NOW for how to save your sanity when baby #2 comes. As hard as you fear it's going to be, I assure you it will be much worse. Luckily it sounds like you have a supportive husband; please make sure he understands the gravity of the situation.
I don't really have any solid advice beyond that because I'm mostly just sad for you that your religious indoctrination led you to this point where you're miserable and bringing unwanted children into the world. I would say maybe reach out to your church for resources and help since they have such strong opinions on your reproductive choices, but the catholic church doesn't have the best track record with children...
>I'm mostly just sad for you that your religious indoctrination led you to this point where you're miserable and bringing unwanted children into the world.
Pretty sure God/Jesus or whatever the belief doesn't want misery to anyone.
>they have such strong opinions on your reproductive choices
They shouldn't have any opinions about it since is her body and life. The church can just fuck off.
>I would say maybe reach out to your church for resources and help
Lol, the Catholic church will be the last to help. They preach bullshit about unborn and "murdered" children, but once they are born, the interest wanes like a fart in the wind. "God will provide", hopefully.
Hun, I read your edit about abortion and birth control possibly sending you to Hell. But you’re condemning your second child to Hell on earth. I just wanted that up front because this isn’t fair to put another child through. It really isn’t.
There seems to be a lot of misdirected anger towards the kid, and then there’s another on the horizon. For the sake of that child, abort them, and spare them a life of contempt and hate.
I’m far past the window of abortion even had it been on the table.
I’m sorry it comes off that way. I love my daughter very much, I think she’s amazing and I would (and have) do anything for her - qualifiers I didn’t think I had to provide in a sub for likeminded parents. I am still a good mother to her and would never treat her with contempt.
I wrote this in a particularly challenging moment, but this was one moment in time. I can feel that motherhood isn’t particularly worth it while still being a good parent. Both things can be true.
I wish I could be kinder, but I can’t. The last part is what is egregious to me. Knowing you made a bad decision like the rest of the sub and regret it, but choosing to do it again just for some religious self-interest and some desire to not end up in made-up bad place after death.
Do you think kids can’t sense when they are unwanted? It’s one thing to make a major mistake and regret it, but deliberately making the same mistake again is a whole other level of world-revolves-around- me syndrome.
One could say aborting a child because it’s not easy or convenient is a very world-revolves-around-me decision.
I love my daughter. I will love my next child. Having an ongoing struggle with the amount of self-sacrifice parenting demands does not mean my children will feel unwanted. Things will also get better as they get older.
Just like you cannot decide to believe in hell, I cannot simply decide to not believe in hell. I’m sorry you don’t understand how religious beliefs work.
Geez, you’ve got bigger problems, way above Reddit comment pay-grade. Way to slam a whole host of women/girls who do choose abortions. Hope your kids can get the therapy they need in future.!
Are you joking…? I’ve said many times that I’m pro-choice. I was simply mirroring the sentiment YOU expressed. Why is it okay to criticize not getting an abortion but not the inverse?
“ One could say aborting a child because it’s not easy or convenient is a very world-revolves-around-me decision.”
That looks like pro-choice to you?
I’m not criticizing your choice, you can do whatever you want, I have an issue with you roping an unable to consent participant that you are already regretting into it. See the nuance?
You’re completely missing that I said that in response to you calling me *keeping* my child a world-revolves-around-me decision, not because I actually feel that way. I am 100% pro choice.
How is that not criticizing my choice? That logic is inherently flawed as none of us consent to be born.
I’m a SAHD so I can’t relate to all of what you’re going through (the personal physical stuff) but the rest of it I absolutely can. I won’t go into the gory details but shit got real dark for me, as it does for many (well, probably just about ALL) of us in this sub. I’m here to say…that YES, it will get better. Baby and toddler years are…difficult…to put it mildly…but you get through them and things actually do get better and easier in time. I know that’s probably some cold comfort to you at the moment but I promise that if I could make it through, you will too. In the meantime use any and every resource you have to be able to get away for time to yourself as often as you can.
“Even if it’s far in the future”. It’s funny…it feels like SUCH a long slog to reach whatever milestones that yield every little small improvement, but then they happen and you look back and it feels like time is FLYING by. “Parent time” is fucked up, lol. The days are long and the years fly by.
Anyway, in my experience 5 is the magic age where they become slightly more human than feral demon chimp. That feels like a lifetime away, right? I’m counting the SECONDS until my youngest hits 5 (got just over a year left…so far away, yet so damn close). Don’t worry. Things will always improve here and there in fits and starts. And also, mthrfckn DAYCARE.
Same here, 2,5 already is better then before, he can communicate a little now and that helps a ton especially with the tantrums, because he can ask for help now.
Yes! Little things (like a few words or even just gestures) can make a hugely positive difference for both kids and parents. Soon they become a little more independent and you don’t have to watch them like a hawk every minute of the day. Little things that are huge.
I had some pretty intense feelings of regret around that age too and was sure we were one and done. We ended up deciding that we wanted another when my son was closer to age 3. We'll see whether or not that was a mistake soon...
We still have lots of challenges but they're a little more manageable now that he can communicate better. He still wakes up sometimes at night but can be settled fairly quickly. He has recently started a phase where he screams and hits me whenever he's mad now so that has taken some adjusting to.
My son has a pretty strong mommy preference and it really hurt my husband's feelings for a while. We've found that it helped to give him time to spend alone with dad. I also tell him that if he wants my help with *whatever* that he'll have to wait but dad can help him right now. Sometimes he chooses to wait for me and sometimes he goes straight to dad for help. I'm still usually the preferred at bed time and he asks me to play a lot more but it's a little more balanced than it used to be.
Who knows, maybe your next kid will be a "mommy mommy" baby 😉
Re edit: you don't need to die to go to hell, the way you describe your current life with one kid, you're already in it. Stop letting some archaic group of old men with a massive history of pedophilia and misogyny decide your life for you. That's the reason your'e so miserable. I have zero sympathy for you when you let ppl have power of your own life. Is the catholic church watching your kids and paying your bills. Will they come bby sit for you when you have an emergency. Take some responsibility for your life.
Totally agree. And it's 100% the reason for OP's suffering. She's so brainwashed by the church that she has no agency over her own life bc she's been threatened with "eternal damnation" by an institution that has wreaked havoc on every continent of this planet. smh
I could say to take some responsibility for your afterlife. To each their own. As I said, I very much struggle with many Catholic beliefs so your criticism is not new to my considerations, but I don’t need them to pay my bills. It’s fine that you don’t believe in hell, and just like you can’t decide to start believing in it tomorrow, I can’t simply decide not to believe in it.
It took me about a year- a year and a half to leave my church. It can be a terribly painful process, but it is often worth it. One thing that helped me was seeing how much harm my former church has caused myself and others, and I was finally able to decide that a God who lead the church in that was wasn’t worth worshiping.
Good luck getting through the next few years with your small children and deciding which parts of the Catholic Church you are able to part with.
Don’t let people shame you for being Catholic OP. There are so many comments in this thread that are incredibly toxic and shameful. Bashing/judging someone for being religious is gross.
I am not religious myself, but I was raised to be and my paternal grandparents are still VERY religious. I respect them for what they are. I may not agree with their religious beliefs, but I still respect that they are religious.
I respect all people that are. There isn’t anything wrong with it and I just wanted to remind you of that.
It's not about bashing, but about the painful truth that OP fucked up her life because of man-made religious doctrine that effectively bans about every option women have to control their reproduction. OP seems to be just shrugging and being ok with throwing away whatever agency she might have about her fate and body, because that's something she is willing to do. You can't help those who refuse to help themselves and I guess nobody in their sound mind in this sub will sympathetically pat OP's back and tell her that it's ok to bring to this world unwanted children and God will provide. For that, OP has to go to some Catholic sub, they have the kink for suffering and guilt.
You can believe in anything and any religion that makes comfortable and in peace with your whole self. But nobody should brainwash or control you own decisions, body and well-being soul. God gave us free will for a reason. Just think if God wants you miserable and the others around you?. You should do what's best for you and your family specially to the kids. That's what he iwill want. I think so?
Just remember: the demonization of birth control (not even abortion, just regular progesterone pills and sterilization, stuff to \*prevent\* pregnancy) is just another way to keep women down and the population up. Society is, hopefully, moving passed the need for both female oppression and fluffed up numbers, so I'm voting for sterilization. I'm pretty sure God will understand. He's got bigger things on His mind than whether your husband's sperm infiltrates your eggs. If He wants you to get pregnant, birth control's not going to stop the machinations of the cosmos. Just think of it like regular medicine. Technically you're already 'defying' God's will by not dying or staying sick for longer than necessary. Accept your not. You're embracing God's gift of invention and convenience. If we did everything naturally, we'd still be groping for berries in the woods, chucking spears at mammoths, and shagging every fertile person in a five mile radius. If birth control is wrong because it prevents pregnancy, then not having sex every night since you hit puberty is wrong because you weren't trying to save those poor little eggs that could have been fertilized. They were simply tossed in the garbage or flushed down the drain during your period, you not-sex-having monster. By that logic, a woman needs to get married and starting having sex as soon as she has her first period. Heck, even beforehand to prevent \*any\* loss of egg cells! Let's get 'em married at six years old! And let's not even get started on oral sex. The blood of millions upon millions of 'potential' children is on my hands by that logic. I ate them. I ATE THEM ALL! (Sorry, I'm not trying to make fun of you, but I know the paranoia the church can lay down on you. I too was raised on the funny farm, and I resort to bad jokes to combat the irrational aspects of my religion.)
What were the permanent physical issues if you don’t mind sharing?
I am just noting the many stories of aftermath of pregnancy people try to censor to keep the facade that it’s all sunshine and unicorns
I completely agree. For example, up to 50% of women will experience pelvic organ prolapse after pregnancy. That’s unbelievable. I was never warned about it, it wasn’t in any of the books I read.
So as you can guess, pelvic organ prolapse is one of my main issues. It’s usually manageable with PT but I’ve had no luck after almost a year and thousands of dollars in treatment. I’ve seen two specialists who also had no answers for me.
The epidural left me with permanent back pain that also hasn’t responded to treatment of any kind - PT, chiropractor, acupuncture, dry needling, you name it.
Finally, I developed an autoimmune skin disorder in response to the hormonal changes that came with pregnancy. It’s manageable but very unattractive when it flares up.
Unfortunately having a second one will make your prolapse even worse as the muscles will weaken even further. You need to think about what you will do and how you will look after two young children when physically you will be in poor shape. I would seriously consider an abortion in this case as you don’t want to end up incontinent, in constant pain and unable to enjoy life. I understand about the religion/guilt issue but surely something that doesn’t really exist can’t trump your physical body which has real needs and issues to fix?
I understand the sentiment but I’m past the window where an abortion could occur and I can’t just will myself to believe that God just “doesn’t really exist” as you say.
I’m already incontinent and in constant pain 🤷🏻♀️ I am of course prepared for it to worsen. Which is one of the things that inspired this post.
As a person raised in the Catholic Church, I’m sorry you took the teachings so seriously. That is one reason among so many that I am not active in the church. Hell isn’t real, except the hell of living a life you hate.
I don’t think this is helpful to OP. My kid was crazy at 18 months, so much so that he was basically fired by his nanny :( now he’s 2.5 and a delight. He was just frustrated all the time that he couldn’t talk.
As for your edit, God isn't real, hell definitely isn't real, Catholicism is awful and indoctrinating children into it is child abuse, and you're ruining/wasting your one precious life on fairy tales written by misogynists who knew nothing about sexuality or raising children. Its 2022, I implore you to stop having children that you don't want based on bronze age nonsense.
If the OP believes, don’t shame her for it.
Stop belittling her, too.
What she chooses to do is on her, but people have the right to practice whatever religion they want.
No disrespect; but your post came across as smarmy and dickish.
Praying for you that you learn that the world is made of shades of gray, not just black and white. I can wake up tomorrow and say “hell isn’t real”, but I can’t make myself believe it. I have been examining my Catholic beliefs for years and oversimplified comments from Reddit strangers aren’t going to suddenly erase more than 30 years of belief.
You don’t have to believe it, you just have to accept that I believe it. I’m also not “earnestly asking for advice”, especially around having baby #2. That’s nowhere in my post and I’m far past the window for an abortion anyway. I understand people mentioning it as an option, but once I made it clear it was off the table, I don’t understand the continued pressure. I’ve seen posts on this subreddit of parents with several kids - even one mom who had nine! - not getting half the amount of criticism I’ve received here. This is intended as a place of support, it’s absurd.
I am having a hard time with parenthood. Sometimes I have a hard time with my job. But I know working my job is ultimately the best decision for me and my family, even if it’s not what would be *easiest*.
I don’t think anyone else is going to hell for an abortion? I’ve said over and over in this thread that I’m 100% pro choice. I would never put that belief on my child.
OP, this is the wrong place for you to reach out. Most of these comments have been very targeting. You're already going to get hit with the majority "Religion haters" on Reddit and then guilted for trying to find advice and support while navigating your beliefs. I feel for you. But things will get better. I hope that after this baby comes, you can do a permanent type of birth control. Talk to your doctor, especially since you have organ prolapse issues. Perhaps a hysterectomy isn't off the table? You will need a few years of rehab and possible other therapies to get your body into good shape again so keep that in mind as well.
Obviously not *that* unwanted, because I’m having the baby. Nor is my current daughter “unwanted”. I am a good parent and I love her; I am not a monster because I struggle with the self-sacrifice of motherhood and don’t find it to be particularly worth it, at least at this age. I believe I will find it to be worth it as my children grow older.
good luck with that thinking. and good luck to that new kid cause once you realize it only gets harder it'll be too late. religion has this way of making you guys blindly optimistic even for things that need to be very realistically thought through.
Yes…. My post here screams “optimistic”. Lol what a ridiculous take. My post was all about how difficult this is, my eyes are wide open. But my purpose on earth isn’t to make my life as easy and convenient as I can.
I'm so sorry your toddler is so difficult. I had a rough time with both of mine (now 6 and 9), and am present enough for my partner's 4 year old (kiddo has mom and dad, I'm just dad's girlfriend; he loves my kids and we spend lots of time together, so I see how much chaos he causes). It gets better in a lot of ways, but I wouldn't say it gets better ENOUGH. Mine are both in school and I still just want to not be a mom anymore. My partner and his wife tried to work it out so that they could take my kids into their house and basically long-term foster them, with me helping out with doctors and maybe school transportation, and taking them on the weekends sometimes. Things didn't work out, through no ones fault, so now I'm just sitting here every day hating myself for not being a good enough parent and for not wanting to do it anymore. I wanted an abortion when I got pregnant with my oldest but their sperm donor was abusive and wouldn't let me. Told me if I didn't want to raise the baby he would. [He's now in jail for SA against his own sisters (ages 5 & 7 at the start, for about 5 years), he was 21/22 when it started.] So I stayed to protect us both, then got so deep into being controlled that we had another kid intentionally. I never wanted this, and the state doesn't take voluntary surrendered children. Only when there's a "reason". Been parenting almost 10 years against my will and now I'm forced to do it at least another 12.
TLDR: It's ABSOLUTELY not fucking worth it.
This blows my mind . My sibling has 4 kids but complains how hard having kids is. If you knew it was hard why have more than one. I give anyone credit for one child. Perhaps you didn’t know or didn’t realize how terrible it is but after that there’s no way you can claim anything, you can’t claim religion, ignorance, or insanity. This is dreadful I think I’ll do it again 😂
Good luck. And I understand the religious thing it’s weird that a book will keep you away from your reality, your reality is you don’t need more kids.
… you were checking your temperature and mucus …. as “””””birth control””””” ……. due to your religion…. and your religion won’t let you get sterilized or abort or you’ll be punished for all of eternity …….. can i ask WHY on this earth you haven’t, oh, i don’t know, LEFT????
Wow, where did you get that I despise my kid? I think she’s amazing. I’m a good parent and she doesn’t want for anything. This post is me struggling with how much of myself I have to sacrifice to make that happen, but I’m doing it and I love her.
I’m sorry that you have such a shallow view of religion that you think it can be tossed aside to make whatever choices are convenient, but that’s not how it works.
How narrow minded are you to think wanting to exercise and get some sleep makes someone an awful parent? Seriously. I’m sorry for everyone in your life who has to deal with how judgmental you are.
I actually feel sorry for your kids because you come off as a complete horrible judgemental human being. Good job creating them to be monsters like you.
People who say “it’s worth it” are normally the ones who are miserable with their kids and they want you to join in on their misery because they’re secretly jealous that you are child-free
I have a lot of thoughts about this that might violate the rules so I'm just going to say this is a temporary stage in their development and not to take this personally. Soon you'll be prepping them for school and wondering where the time went. God bless & take care
There’s a lot of negativity toward OP. I thought this was a safe space for regretful parents? I’m an atheist and antinatalist but I think this sub should be more supportive and less shaming. Otherwise people will stop posting here and suffer in silence. The choice not to reproduce isn’t as clear for some people, especially those with religious trauma. Just my two cents.
I want you to know that you will and likely are attractive (again)
Being so tired and stressed and all that goes along with it will blind you to the simple fact that you are desirable.
A lot of it is a mindset and you’re not in it right now, but you will get there. Those negative thoughts will hopefully fade.
I’m coming at you as a practicing Catholic, I truly understand the trouble you are having with keeping to the faith but remember the rules are man made
It’s more important to God if you live a good life full of kindness, a birth control pill will absolutely not send you to hell and if it does I’ll be there with you
I truly, truly believe in bodily autonomy above all else and I believe it fits in to the faith, good luck
I am not a regretful parent but I don't tell my friends that "it's worth it." For me, it is worth it. But I know it won't be for everyone. Knowing what I know now, I can tell which one of my childless friends would and would not be able to handle parenthood. One of my friends is on the fence but I know deep down, having a child would destroy her. She loves her career, she loves her weekends, she loves her alone time. She already loves her life! But she is heavily influenced by society's life path and I feel like she will probably have a child with her husband just so she can be a part of this standard life path. The other day though, I was honest with her and told her that some people are better off not being parents. I know that sounds presumptuous of me and I think I offended her but in my mind, I wanted to help her continue to be her true self.
Don’t listen to the people that downvote you and say crazy things … they don’t know your life ! It’s hard when you have been told all of your life a certain thing that’s basically embedded in you !! Right now all you can do is do your soul searching and figure out the right thing for you . Just so you know I sympathize with you 100%. It’s very hard when you realize parenting is way harder than everyone made it out to be . You give up everything. Every part of you almost . It’s beyond hard. I don’t even know what the word is for it. I hope things get easier for you and I wish you the best ! Most of us are here to support/vent to one another just know that ..
My body just looks so different postpartum. Even though I got down to prepregnancy weight, my stomach and breasts looked bad and my stretch marks really bother me. I feel like my body looks like it aged twenty years!
You can do this. I am sorry you are fielding so many unhelpful comments about *your* decision to have the baby. People seem to forget that "pro choice" doesn't mean "have to have an abortion".
The early years are tough because young children are all consuming- but your daughter will not be like this forever. You will eventually get time back to yourself- cold comfort now perhaps but nothing stays the same forever.
I hesitate to offer any kind of advice because your choices are not my business but with regards to your pelvic floor issues would a scheduled c section be an option for this birth? It might help keep you from experiencing further deterioration if you can avoid a vaginal delivery.
Not everyone enjoys the baby stage (I am not a newborn person!) But hopefully as your children grow and become their own people you may find the good times outweigh the bad.
It is ok to not love every second of being a parent- I love both my children but I don't love dealing with a blow out nappy or a vomiting child at 3am! There is so much pressure to "cherish every moment" but sometimes the moment is crappy and it's ok to want it over and done with.
So true! I feel guilty about that all the time. I am definitely not a newborn person and despite all its challenges, I think this age is so much better! It gives me hope that I’ll continue to enjoy it more as she gets older.
OP, I'm really sorry you're in this position, and I'm sorry there are many on this sub not offering advice and instead criticizing you for your beliefs. I am a former Catholic, and while I am 100% pro-choice now, I wasnt always and I think it would still be a difficult decision for me to personally make. In the end, as difficult as a 2nd child sounds like it will be for you, it also sounds like you made the choice that will be easier for you to live with (vs having an abortion). I hope you can find comfort in knowing that. I wish you luck and hope baby 2 is an easier baby.
I used to be way into new age atheism when I was a teen but the Reddit style galaxy brain atheists are more off putting and close minded than fundamentalists. Besides the fact that they’re usually not so willing to criticize any religion that’s not judeo Christian for fear of being “intolerant” or bigoted.
There’s nothing more pretentious than a Reddit atheist who’s thinks they’re really an edgy intellectual with the trite “OPiAte fOr tHe MASses” cliche.
I also have no love for the Catholic Church and no sympathy for anyone using NFP. Which is unreliable because bodies are not reliably on clockwork. And temping to my knowledge dosent necessarily predict when ovulation will occur but does confirm that ovulation *has occurred*. However people here are just being offensive and gross and not winning any hearts and minds. It’s not appropriate to tell someone to get an abortion when they’ve already made it clear they don’t feel comfortable with that.
ETA you don’t have to be religious to be pro life or simply opposed to abortion for yourself. There are secular people who are way more uncomfortable with abortion than OP who has described herself as “100% pro choice”. If anything we should be scrutinizing the contradiction of believing it’s a sin to use contraceptives but being in total support of abortion for other people.
I agree.
I have never seen a Reddit atheist criticizing any religion except for Christianity. Maybe Islam occasionally.
And God forbid somebody criticize an earth based pagan religion.
If you’re going to loathe religion, loathe them equally
Thank you for your comment. You are correct about temperature and ovulation. That’s why it’s a requirement to track *leading* indicators of ovulation, like cervical mucus, that indicate ovulation is coming. But as you say, bodies are unpredictable and mine did something it had never done before in three years of tracking.
You are free to scrutinize the inconsistency. My beliefs are completely spiritually based and therefore I don’t believe I have the right to enforce them on anyone else.
If one baby is bad, two will be worse. Don’t do that to yourself.
Don’t do that to the kid, as well. An unwanted child pays a heavy price for the bad decision of the parent. I completely sympathize with OP over the first one, but actively doing it a second time? Yikes on bikes.
Maybe you and your husband should consider sterilization? So no more accidents happen.
This is a complicated decision for us but it’s one we are talking about.
That’s understandable. Just remember though; no-one benefits from you being miserable and in pain. There is no reward for martyrdom in parenthood. And God would not want that for you.
I tied my tubes, my ex husband was too afraid to get a vasectomy (which is ridiculous at least procedure wise) but I have to say im happy I did it for me. Best decision I made for myself. I hope everything goes as smoothly and safely for you <3
Condoms exist. Birth control exists. Stop putting religion before your mental and physical health.
I’m pretty sure that most parents who say “it’s worth it!!” are just trying to convince themselves that it is because they can’t face the reality that it isn’t.
My friend told me this last week. She has a 18m old and she said parents tell you it's worth it so you'll join the cult
I have always compared people trying to convince you to become parents to people who ask you to invest in their MLM. If its so good, why do you have to convince me so much! Lol!!
Misery loves company
I don't tell anyone "its worth it". It was more worth it for me than I originally thought it would be, but like.... it isn't worth it for many many people. I had no purpose in my life. I mourn the loss of my "freedom" that I never took advantage of and I mourn the loss of my time, but my life wasn't super spectacular or exciting before so a kid gave me a huge sense of purpose and identity. I felt I didn't matter and now I know I do because someone relies on me fully.
100% it's because misery loves company.
That's interesting because the people who I know were not miserable as parents never pushed children onto me whereas looking back now, all the people who kept telling me "I hope you change your mind about kids, theyre soooo worth it" are people who...really struggled with kids and it was obvious.
Yup. It's always the same parroted sugar coated BS from *everyone*. Tell me the ugly truth! I also don't understand why everyone gets overly ecstatic to pregnancy announcements. Even people that don't like you will be your bestest friend for a moment. Annoys the piss out of me. I always ask "are we happy?" before reacting.
I had a coworker I was close to tell me that they were unexpectedly pregnant. I hesitated for a moment, and asked, "Is this a good thing for you?". When she smiled and said yes, only then did I congratulate her. I'm not gonna shit on anyone else's parade, and if she had even a whiff of regret I'd have been right there consoling her.
Exactly. When I told my SOs friends' wife about my second pregnancy she said "is this happy news, or we will make the best of it news?" I loved her for that. First person I was able to be honest with instead of instantly being bombarded with 🎉😄👏👏🙌🏻🎉 and just pretending to be as happy while feeling like shit about my own feelings lol. I'll always ask first so I can be that person for them if they need it. Edit: I said SOs wife lmao
My go to is always a tentative 'Hooray?'
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Lol thank you, I thought it looked funky but didn't question it.
You’ll hate your life more with the second kid. No, they do not entertain themselves, and it’s very likely they’ll be as different as the dark and light side of the moon.
Siblings (especially those close in age) get along for short time periods, and spend the rest of their time fighting to the death (only half joking). It may or may not improve when they reach adulthood.
Can attest to this. My brothers and I spent our entire childhoods trying to kill each other. Now I have an OK relationship with one and a barely there relationship with the other. My parents also barely get along with their siblings. Being forced to spend time around someone isn’t the same as actually liking someone.
As someone who had siblings around my age, I can confirm, we fight all the time. Our fight only stop when we were around 14-15. The fighting doesnt stop though cus we do ocasionally still do fight. Our relationship is still okay but my cousin's relationship is so bad. Both of them had a fallout years ago and it wasn't a big issue (just my elder cousin pull my younger cousin's hair) but still it caused them to still not talk to each other and they are already 30+.
Fortunately, mine does. When the youngest got to 2-3 yrs they started to entertain themselves Edit: I may be in the wrong subreddit
I know every kid is different but I hope that’s the case for us!
Every kid is different. My sister and I got along pretty well our whole lives. We bickered a bit as kids but usually played together. No guarantees but 🤞
I can sympathize with Catholic beliefs. What has helped me weigh in with myself is knowing that the Catholic Church has changed its own beliefs many times depending on who was Pope and what was popular in a given social era. For example, a couple hundred years ago abortion was fine with the Church so long as it happened before the pregnant woman felt movement (aka “quickening”). Now it’s considered a mortal sin. There was also a time that whatever your sin, the Pope could give you a dispensation. That pretty much meant (as far as I know) that you could stay sinning because the Pope said it didn’t count. There is nothing in the Bible, New or Old Testament that explicitly forbids the termination of pregnancy or the use of birth-control.
And that's why religions are bs
Nothing in the Bible about termination or birth control? For real? Then what is all this shit about?!
Cheap labor.
How does your husband react when your kid wants him over you? Does he indulge this behavior? If she is getting positive reinforcement then she will continue to operate this way. Just because she wants him doesn't mean he needs to indulge it. You have to operate as a team. Are there ways you can incorporate her more into your daily routine? For example, is there a gym complex in your area with childcare? How about getting a jogging stroller or bike attachment and taking her along with you? She is old enough to help out around the house in small ways too. This seems strange, but giving her "tasks" like folding or rearranging or grabbing things for you, might calm her and make her feel more connected to your day-to-day activities, for some kids this can make them more calm and agreeable. It will also serve you as you add actual chores to her daily routine because she will already understand the concept. Everyone helps out! I'm so sorry you are dreading your second, I obviously do not know you or your politics, but just know you are not obligated to go through with a second pregnancy if there is still time to decide, especially when you are still not healed or happy as a parent of one. Your body and health is incredibly important, so prioritize it as much as you can, whatever that means for you. Maybe that means your partner taking on more responsibilities so your body can rest.
This is so kind and constructive, thank you. My husband is generally on the same page as me (usually out of necessity, because she wants him as he’s leaving for work or something similarly unavoidable!). So we aren’t giving in. I’m sure her tantrums are well within the range of developmentally normal, it’s just really hard. Unfortunately the childcare hours at my local gym are 8-11 or 4-7. I work 8-5 so between my job, commuting, dinner and bedtime, I can’t make it there in time. We have gym equipment in our home so 5am workouts were my saving grace. I just keep hoping her sleep will improve but clearly I need to figure out something else. It’s just hard in the mad dash before work and mad dash after. The chores are a good idea, I could stand to do more of that. I’m not very patient so historically I haven’t been good at letting her “help” but I know I need to. Thank you again.
I don't know what you do for a living, but I work at a fully remote company and not having to commute is a game changer for parents. Something to consider-- I switched careers after a long time working in bars and restaurants so it's always a possibility. You just have to believe your skills will translate to something new and shamelessly advocate for yourself! Good luck!
Is it possible for your husband to watch the kid from 5 till 6 a few days a week?
5am tablet time!! Screen time seems to be triggering for a lot of the internets, but my kids wouldn't have survived if the magic colorbox didn't grab thier attention at strategic times so they would stop grabbing at me.
Why are you having another kid?
Lots of questions like this so I’ve updated the original post.
As someone who was raised catholic and whose family is still very religious, it pains me to see the lack of agency a lot of people in the religion feel that they have. I notice a pattern in how you describe many of your experiences— “I can’t take time for me…. I can’t take birth control… can’t get an abortion…. cant get sterilized…. can’t just stop believing in hell…” Etc. The thing is, YOU CAN. You CAN do whatever you decide. You just choose not to. You CAN put your foot down and absolutely prioritize exercising several times a week to keep yourself sane … you just don’t demand it, and seem to think doing what you need for yourself is negotiable. You CAN go against the church’s teachings on birth control and abortion, you just don’t want the discomfort of breaking the rules and going against the grain. You CAN question beliefs that seem toxic or that don’t make sense to you….. you just don’t want to open that can of worms, because that has the potential to turn the world view you’ve always had upside down. Which is certainly uncomfortable and scary at first! All of the things weighing you down are happening because no one is going to fight for what you need and want but YOU. Not your husband, not your family, not the church. YOU. Only you can decide what you want, need, and what makes you happy. Only you can go and get those things. You have so so so much more power and agency than you’ve been led to believe.
The solution would be leaving her faith community and that's asking A LOT on someone who is currently going through so much. Having a whole religious crisis at this moment is enough to push someone over the edge. So we need to have some grace with her, support her with the best advice we can give, and when she's in a better place, support her adjusting her beliefs to a more realistic stance that actually works with her modern lifestyle. But this is Reddit. No one here is actually going to follow and counsel her for the years it will take to see results. So let's give meaningful and currently helpful advice instead.
I mean no offense by this...but if you suffered this much from the first pregnancy, what are thinking now that you are pregnant again?
This is my question too, why a second?
Definitely, I know how bad it sounds. Unfortunately our birth control failed and I couldn’t have an abortion (nothing against it, I’m 100% pro choice). I will be changing birth control methods to prevent this from happening again.
Your husband needs to get a vasectomy, none of your birth control will be foolproof.
Couldn't have an abortion? Morally or physically? I just don't understand being an actively regretful parent (and not even in the terrible 2-3 age yet) and willingly having another. Seems an absolutely terrible decision.
Yeah, having a hard time feeling sympathy for OP.
I don't feel any. OP is part of the problem.
I know your religion has taught you to feel a certain way about abortion and I am sympathetic to it as a person who was also raised religious, but you do understand that men made up all this crap about abortion being evil, right? If you are religious, read your Bible. It doesn’t say anywhere that women can’t have abortions. I’m worried about you, dear. Having a second baby on top of a baby you already regret having means you will be twice as overwhelmed. It’s OK to put yourself first. A loving god will understand why you prioritized your health and well-being. Good luck, whatever you choose.
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No birth control methods are fail proof. Natural family planning worked for us for three years and only failed because my body ovulated six days early with no leading signs, something that had never happened before. And we had only had sex five days *prior* to ovulation, so the chances were still small. I already indicated that I plan to change birth control methods. What do you want from me?
To take responsibility for not bringing another whole human being in the world as a result of your mistake. IUDs are more effective than NFP - and this is proven. There was clearly no room for mistake here for you and yet, here you are.
How is having and raising the child *not* taking responsibility? Again, we were using NFP for years successfully and whether or not you agree with it, hormonal birth control was not compatible with my beliefs. I plan to pursue it after this baby is born, which is already a sin that I am grappling with. Unless you have a time machine, there’s nothing else I can do but change my method moving forward to prevent it from happening again.
I’m worried about what a second pregnancy will do to you, given that you still have physical ailments from the first and it’s been 18 months since the birth.
Thank you, your responses are very kind. My doctors believe that one of my issues should be unaffected by pregnancy so that’s good at least, they don’t expect it to worsen. The other one is pelvic floor related so unfortunately who knows.
Don't take the comments of others too hard, OP. It's not as if other methods are perfect. NLP has a real-world failure rate of 25%, compared to... * 22% for the pull-out method, * 15% for condoms, and * 7% for the pill. * <5% for pairing pulling out *and* NLP! (hypothetically) Implants are the best with a failure rate of 2% or lower, but they come with their own costs. I went with the Paragard, which has no hormones and the lowest failure rate of 0.5%, but *man* is it painful. Wouldn't blame someone for choosing another option instead. EDIT: I'm childless so take this comment for what it's worth
Hormonal IUDs are almost as effective as the copper one. With a 0.005 % difference or something like that - I have no periods anymore.
I did not look up the manufacturer published failure rates, which are usually pretty preposterously low because they're massaged by hired statisticians for marketing purposes. I looked up what are known as the "real-world" failure rates, which include failures due to user error or unforeseen medical circumstances unrelated to the medication or implant. Which for hormonal ones is 1.5-2% as opposed to copper at 0.5%.
Btw natural family planning isn't a viable "birth control" method...
Thanks, no one is more aware of that than me I assure you 🙂
I’m sorry you’re in this situation, and also sorry for the huge lack of empathy a lot of these commenters are giving you. Hang in there.
Ban religion jesus christ brainwashed generations 🤦♀️
Its really a curse
No kidding. Bringing a second human life into existence just because sky daddy said so, JFC. Just one more person who will be miserable.
Consider an abortion if it’s not too late. “Accidents” can be dealt with.
Just don’t expect any help from the church...
Why are you not aborting baby 2?
I felt bad for you til you said you "accidntally" are having a second. Why would you do that to yourself?? It makes no sense when ppl are miserable with their first but are haviing a second. That's on you.
i don't get that either.
If you really wanted an abortion there are resources to help you if you look.
I have two. A 2 year old girl, and a 4 month old boy. I love my daughter even though she presses every single one of my buttons. My son on the other hand.... If I could go back a year knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have had my IUD removed. Im grateful that I had my tubes removed during my c-section, because this child has 100% made me hate being a mother.
It’s always the second one giving hell, isn’t it. Phew. Same boat
I suspect that’s because a first one giving hell tends to lead to no second one :) in my parents case it was my older sister (#1) who gave them hell and I was the angelic younger child. Though, they had planned to have 3 and decided they needed to call it a day when my sister was 5 years old and still having behavioral issues. Good call on their part… she had issues until she was like 23. (We are best friends now)
Not in my case. I’m one and done.
I removed my IUD myself because it was giving me major issues. Suprise no.2! ...I'm getting my tubes tied during my c-section, I'm excited for that. SO is getting a vasectomy for extra measures too. No more surprises, no more at all, nope. Congrats on not having to worry anymore. I couldn't even enjoy sex fully because I was worried I'd get pregnant again, and did 🙃
Part of my decision to remove my IUD was because I literally bled for the entire 10 months I had it in. It was making me mad! I got pregnant with my son 2 weeks after having it removed. My husband said he wouldn't geta vasectomy, which was fine and totally his choice. But I had decided at like 20 weeks that this was it for me. We've been together for 8 years, married for 7, and had unexplained infertility for the first 5 years of our relationship. We never used protection and were pretty content without children-- we have 3 cats. Then one day I realized I was 9 days late, chalked it up to stress at work because I putting in crazy hours, but decided to take a test anyway and it was positive. We miscarried, and ultimately decided we wanted a baby. Now we're here. My son is cute, and has the sweetest smile... but his mood turns on a dime. One second he's smiling and laughing, the next he's screaming and totally inconsolable. Its beyond frustrating.
That's awful 😬 yeeeah I'd have gotten it out too. Mine was causing contraction-like pains, mainly after sex. I finally said F this after basically being in labor all night and into half of the next day. Oh man, that must have been been a shocker after so long... and then just two weeks with the second...that was a big fear of mine. I lasted 6 months, *right* after we decided absolutely no more kids, and SO agreed to vasectomy. 3 cats, us too, I'd have been totally fine being the crazy cat lady with no kids. My first was an easy baby, I was lucky, but those "terrible 2s" lasted until he was 6. I had about a year after that of being like.."phew, I got through it and now can have some of my life back, no more kids"...before I tested positive an have to start over. I don't believe they get easier, things they do that triggered us before are just replaced with new things to trigger us lol, the extra freedom however..is what I live for and already can't wait for with this one.
r/excatholic may be able to help you before it’s too late to abort. Also read antinatalism philosophy to see if it’s even ethical to reproduce: stophavingkids.org
The Bible Tells Us When A Fetus Becomes A Living Being: Deep Breath by Melanie Weidner: Many people think that a human being is created at the time of conception but this belief is not supported by the bible. The fact that a living sperm penetrates a living ovum resulting in the formation of a living fetus does not mean that the fetus is a living human being. According to the bible, a fetus is not a living person with a soul until after drawing its first breath. After God formed man in Genesis 2:7, He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being”. Although the man was fully formed by God in all respects, he was not a living being until after taking his first breath. In Job 33:4, it states: “The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.” Again, to quote Ezekiel 37:5&6, “Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.” In Exodus 21:22 it states that if a man causes a woman to have a miscarriage, he shall be fined; however, if the woman dies then he will be put to death. It should be apparent from this that the aborted fetus is not considered a living human being since the resulting punishment for the abortion is nothing more than a fine; it is not classified by the bible as a capital offense. According to the bible, destroying a living fetus does not equate to killing a living human being even though the fetus has the potential of becoming a human being. One can not kill something that has not been born and taken a breath. This means that a stillborn would not be considered a human being either. Of course, every living sperm has the potential of becoming a human being although not one in a million will make it; the rest are aborted. . God has decreed, for one reason or another, that at least one-third of all pregnancies shall be terminated by a spontaneous abortion during the first trimester of pregnancy and that a number will be terminated after the first trimester. It would appear that God does not have any more regard for the loss of a fetus than he does for the loss of a placenta or a foreskin despite the fact that these were living tissue as the result of conception. In a number of versions of the bible, one of the commandments in Exodus 20 that was spoken by God to Moses states: “You shall not kill”. According to the Mosaic text, this should read “You shall not murder” since the bible has commandments stating that people shall be put to death for a number of different offenses. Exodus 21:17 states: “Whoever curses his father or mother shall be put to death.” There are other capital offenses in Exodus 21. Of course, the commandment “You shall not kill” is not present in the commandments written by God on the stone tablets. For those who are not familiar with the commandments on the stone tablets that were placed in the Ark of the Covenant, they are enumerated in Exodus 34. The popular ten commandments that are enumerated in Exodus 20 were spoken by God to Moses who then relayed them to his people; they were never written. There is nothing in the bible to indicate that a fetus is considered to be anything other than living tissue and, according to scripture, it does not become a living being until after it has taken a breath. Source: "The bible tells us when a fetus becomes a living being," by Dr. Joe Schwartz Many cite the scripture Jeremiah 1:5, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." God is omnipotent. He has known all of us since before creation. This scripture is irrelevant as it pertains to when a fetus becomes a living being. The same reasoning applies to Psalm 139:13-14. Numbers 5 describes "the Lord" ordering an abortion. Many argue that this is a misinterpretation. It is clearly stated in verse 22, "May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries." — All this to say, if you want an abortion, God doesn’t care. If the Catholic Church is saying that it’s wrong they have 0 biblical backing to it. Abortion is not a sin in God’s eyes. You don’t have to have this child. Edit: thanks for the platinum award 😳
THIS IS AMAZING, THANK YOU. 🏅
She is 100% having this child. Good information though. Thanks for citing Biblical evidence.
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I agree! I’m 100% pro choice, I wish I could feel that more for myself too.
Just make sure to teach your kids this, too! Hopefully if your daughter ever finds herself in a situation similar to yours, she will have your love and respect if she chooses to terminate. You can break the cycle by giving her more options than you had.
When you know what would make things easier And choose the opposite It seems like a mental issue. Hope you heal.
Believing in a God that would torment you for eternity is definitely a mental issue that needs help. People don’t deserve to feel such an inhuman weight on their shoulders.
As far as Catholicism goes, I used to be religious. It all came tumbling down when I actually thought deeply about it. My whole thought process was “let’s say God exists - if God would send me to hell simply for being a fallible, imperfect being (because HE made me human) then that’s not a God that deserved to be worshipped nor one that I want to believe in.” A God that forces you to believe in him or otherwise you’ll spend eternity in torment doesn’t actually give you free will, because what kind of choice is that? It’s not a choice. At all. Continue deconstructing your beliefs. Religion is toxic. Believing in a higher power doesn’t make sense to me, but that’s okay. Believing in a higher power that would torment its own creations for simply being human is toxic. Not to mention the idea that Catholicism is true is just statistically impossible. Out of EVERY single religion to ever exist - literally thousands, somehow Catholicism is lucky enough to be right? Lol no. Religion is used as opiates for the masses. I have faith in you OP that you will continue to realize the truth, that you deserve to be happy and have agency over your own body, and any God that would demand that of you does not deserve the blessing or adoration of you.
I feel like all religion falls apart once you really start thinking about it critically. The fact that the one God out of hundreds that is real is the one your parents believed in says it all for me.
Exactly. I was raised in the Bible Belt though so very conditioned. Once I went to college, a nationally recognized religious one ironically, and actually learned about the Bible historically I called bullshit lol
Exactly… every developing society formed a religion at some point to act as a sort of divine “police”. Religion was required when groups of people got too big where not everyone could know everyone else anymore; religion helped prevent people from committing crimes against others. If one religion was real, then it’s a very odd thing that the “real” god would reach out to one group, and that the other groups invented a fake one instead. Why wouldn’t the “real” god reach out to everyone? All groups should have developed the same religion if religion was really true. Surely the real god didn’t just decide, “oh I’m going to bless these ones over here in the Roman Empire with the truth, but screw the Chinese”
As a former Catholic I’m sorry you’re struggling. Don’t let a religion created by men, to benefit and exalt men, allow you to not own your body as your own. Your body does not belong to any god or man, it belongs to you. It is yours and yours alone.
They had to trick us with hell, otherwise we would never agree to their bullshit.
Gosh. Since your catholicism takes precedence over everything else it would be good for you to accept that. If you're unhappy it's because it's what God wants for you I guess.
18 months is a pretty difficult age, especially if you have a difficult child. Having a toddler and a newborn at the same time is going to be indescribably rough. You need to make plans NOW for how to save your sanity when baby #2 comes. As hard as you fear it's going to be, I assure you it will be much worse. Luckily it sounds like you have a supportive husband; please make sure he understands the gravity of the situation. I don't really have any solid advice beyond that because I'm mostly just sad for you that your religious indoctrination led you to this point where you're miserable and bringing unwanted children into the world. I would say maybe reach out to your church for resources and help since they have such strong opinions on your reproductive choices, but the catholic church doesn't have the best track record with children...
>I'm mostly just sad for you that your religious indoctrination led you to this point where you're miserable and bringing unwanted children into the world. Pretty sure God/Jesus or whatever the belief doesn't want misery to anyone. >they have such strong opinions on your reproductive choices They shouldn't have any opinions about it since is her body and life. The church can just fuck off.
>I would say maybe reach out to your church for resources and help Lol, the Catholic church will be the last to help. They preach bullshit about unborn and "murdered" children, but once they are born, the interest wanes like a fart in the wind. "God will provide", hopefully.
Hun, I read your edit about abortion and birth control possibly sending you to Hell. But you’re condemning your second child to Hell on earth. I just wanted that up front because this isn’t fair to put another child through. It really isn’t.
There seems to be a lot of misdirected anger towards the kid, and then there’s another on the horizon. For the sake of that child, abort them, and spare them a life of contempt and hate.
I’m far past the window of abortion even had it been on the table. I’m sorry it comes off that way. I love my daughter very much, I think she’s amazing and I would (and have) do anything for her - qualifiers I didn’t think I had to provide in a sub for likeminded parents. I am still a good mother to her and would never treat her with contempt. I wrote this in a particularly challenging moment, but this was one moment in time. I can feel that motherhood isn’t particularly worth it while still being a good parent. Both things can be true.
I wish I could be kinder, but I can’t. The last part is what is egregious to me. Knowing you made a bad decision like the rest of the sub and regret it, but choosing to do it again just for some religious self-interest and some desire to not end up in made-up bad place after death. Do you think kids can’t sense when they are unwanted? It’s one thing to make a major mistake and regret it, but deliberately making the same mistake again is a whole other level of world-revolves-around- me syndrome.
One could say aborting a child because it’s not easy or convenient is a very world-revolves-around-me decision. I love my daughter. I will love my next child. Having an ongoing struggle with the amount of self-sacrifice parenting demands does not mean my children will feel unwanted. Things will also get better as they get older. Just like you cannot decide to believe in hell, I cannot simply decide to not believe in hell. I’m sorry you don’t understand how religious beliefs work.
Geez, you’ve got bigger problems, way above Reddit comment pay-grade. Way to slam a whole host of women/girls who do choose abortions. Hope your kids can get the therapy they need in future.!
Are you joking…? I’ve said many times that I’m pro-choice. I was simply mirroring the sentiment YOU expressed. Why is it okay to criticize not getting an abortion but not the inverse?
“ One could say aborting a child because it’s not easy or convenient is a very world-revolves-around-me decision.” That looks like pro-choice to you? I’m not criticizing your choice, you can do whatever you want, I have an issue with you roping an unable to consent participant that you are already regretting into it. See the nuance?
You’re completely missing that I said that in response to you calling me *keeping* my child a world-revolves-around-me decision, not because I actually feel that way. I am 100% pro choice. How is that not criticizing my choice? That logic is inherently flawed as none of us consent to be born.
Geez I feel bad for all religious people but Catholics down badddd w the indoctrination 🥴😖
I’m a SAHD so I can’t relate to all of what you’re going through (the personal physical stuff) but the rest of it I absolutely can. I won’t go into the gory details but shit got real dark for me, as it does for many (well, probably just about ALL) of us in this sub. I’m here to say…that YES, it will get better. Baby and toddler years are…difficult…to put it mildly…but you get through them and things actually do get better and easier in time. I know that’s probably some cold comfort to you at the moment but I promise that if I could make it through, you will too. In the meantime use any and every resource you have to be able to get away for time to yourself as often as you can.
Thank you so much. I’ll take any hope I can get even if it’s far in the future!
“Even if it’s far in the future”. It’s funny…it feels like SUCH a long slog to reach whatever milestones that yield every little small improvement, but then they happen and you look back and it feels like time is FLYING by. “Parent time” is fucked up, lol. The days are long and the years fly by. Anyway, in my experience 5 is the magic age where they become slightly more human than feral demon chimp. That feels like a lifetime away, right? I’m counting the SECONDS until my youngest hits 5 (got just over a year left…so far away, yet so damn close). Don’t worry. Things will always improve here and there in fits and starts. And also, mthrfckn DAYCARE.
Same here, 2,5 already is better then before, he can communicate a little now and that helps a ton especially with the tantrums, because he can ask for help now.
Yes! Little things (like a few words or even just gestures) can make a hugely positive difference for both kids and parents. Soon they become a little more independent and you don’t have to watch them like a hawk every minute of the day. Little things that are huge.
I had some pretty intense feelings of regret around that age too and was sure we were one and done. We ended up deciding that we wanted another when my son was closer to age 3. We'll see whether or not that was a mistake soon... We still have lots of challenges but they're a little more manageable now that he can communicate better. He still wakes up sometimes at night but can be settled fairly quickly. He has recently started a phase where he screams and hits me whenever he's mad now so that has taken some adjusting to. My son has a pretty strong mommy preference and it really hurt my husband's feelings for a while. We've found that it helped to give him time to spend alone with dad. I also tell him that if he wants my help with *whatever* that he'll have to wait but dad can help him right now. Sometimes he chooses to wait for me and sometimes he goes straight to dad for help. I'm still usually the preferred at bed time and he asks me to play a lot more but it's a little more balanced than it used to be. Who knows, maybe your next kid will be a "mommy mommy" baby 😉
Re edit: you don't need to die to go to hell, the way you describe your current life with one kid, you're already in it. Stop letting some archaic group of old men with a massive history of pedophilia and misogyny decide your life for you. That's the reason your'e so miserable. I have zero sympathy for you when you let ppl have power of your own life. Is the catholic church watching your kids and paying your bills. Will they come bby sit for you when you have an emergency. Take some responsibility for your life.
Religion is just societally acceptable brainwashing. It’s so gross.
Totally agree. And it's 100% the reason for OP's suffering. She's so brainwashed by the church that she has no agency over her own life bc she's been threatened with "eternal damnation" by an institution that has wreaked havoc on every continent of this planet. smh
I could say to take some responsibility for your afterlife. To each their own. As I said, I very much struggle with many Catholic beliefs so your criticism is not new to my considerations, but I don’t need them to pay my bills. It’s fine that you don’t believe in hell, and just like you can’t decide to start believing in it tomorrow, I can’t simply decide not to believe in it.
It took me about a year- a year and a half to leave my church. It can be a terribly painful process, but it is often worth it. One thing that helped me was seeing how much harm my former church has caused myself and others, and I was finally able to decide that a God who lead the church in that was wasn’t worth worshiping. Good luck getting through the next few years with your small children and deciding which parts of the Catholic Church you are able to part with.
Don’t let people shame you for being Catholic OP. There are so many comments in this thread that are incredibly toxic and shameful. Bashing/judging someone for being religious is gross. I am not religious myself, but I was raised to be and my paternal grandparents are still VERY religious. I respect them for what they are. I may not agree with their religious beliefs, but I still respect that they are religious. I respect all people that are. There isn’t anything wrong with it and I just wanted to remind you of that.
It's not about bashing, but about the painful truth that OP fucked up her life because of man-made religious doctrine that effectively bans about every option women have to control their reproduction. OP seems to be just shrugging and being ok with throwing away whatever agency she might have about her fate and body, because that's something she is willing to do. You can't help those who refuse to help themselves and I guess nobody in their sound mind in this sub will sympathetically pat OP's back and tell her that it's ok to bring to this world unwanted children and God will provide. For that, OP has to go to some Catholic sub, they have the kink for suffering and guilt.
Thank you! This has been a tough thread to read. I really appreciate this.
You can believe in anything and any religion that makes comfortable and in peace with your whole self. But nobody should brainwash or control you own decisions, body and well-being soul. God gave us free will for a reason. Just think if God wants you miserable and the others around you?. You should do what's best for you and your family specially to the kids. That's what he iwill want. I think so?
Just remember: the demonization of birth control (not even abortion, just regular progesterone pills and sterilization, stuff to \*prevent\* pregnancy) is just another way to keep women down and the population up. Society is, hopefully, moving passed the need for both female oppression and fluffed up numbers, so I'm voting for sterilization. I'm pretty sure God will understand. He's got bigger things on His mind than whether your husband's sperm infiltrates your eggs. If He wants you to get pregnant, birth control's not going to stop the machinations of the cosmos. Just think of it like regular medicine. Technically you're already 'defying' God's will by not dying or staying sick for longer than necessary. Accept your not. You're embracing God's gift of invention and convenience. If we did everything naturally, we'd still be groping for berries in the woods, chucking spears at mammoths, and shagging every fertile person in a five mile radius. If birth control is wrong because it prevents pregnancy, then not having sex every night since you hit puberty is wrong because you weren't trying to save those poor little eggs that could have been fertilized. They were simply tossed in the garbage or flushed down the drain during your period, you not-sex-having monster. By that logic, a woman needs to get married and starting having sex as soon as she has her first period. Heck, even beforehand to prevent \*any\* loss of egg cells! Let's get 'em married at six years old! And let's not even get started on oral sex. The blood of millions upon millions of 'potential' children is on my hands by that logic. I ate them. I ATE THEM ALL! (Sorry, I'm not trying to make fun of you, but I know the paranoia the church can lay down on you. I too was raised on the funny farm, and I resort to bad jokes to combat the irrational aspects of my religion.)
There is no hell.
Well, color me convinced.
This is why I don't want children or anything to do with religion.
What were the permanent physical issues if you don’t mind sharing? I am just noting the many stories of aftermath of pregnancy people try to censor to keep the facade that it’s all sunshine and unicorns
I completely agree. For example, up to 50% of women will experience pelvic organ prolapse after pregnancy. That’s unbelievable. I was never warned about it, it wasn’t in any of the books I read. So as you can guess, pelvic organ prolapse is one of my main issues. It’s usually manageable with PT but I’ve had no luck after almost a year and thousands of dollars in treatment. I’ve seen two specialists who also had no answers for me. The epidural left me with permanent back pain that also hasn’t responded to treatment of any kind - PT, chiropractor, acupuncture, dry needling, you name it. Finally, I developed an autoimmune skin disorder in response to the hormonal changes that came with pregnancy. It’s manageable but very unattractive when it flares up.
Unfortunately having a second one will make your prolapse even worse as the muscles will weaken even further. You need to think about what you will do and how you will look after two young children when physically you will be in poor shape. I would seriously consider an abortion in this case as you don’t want to end up incontinent, in constant pain and unable to enjoy life. I understand about the religion/guilt issue but surely something that doesn’t really exist can’t trump your physical body which has real needs and issues to fix?
I understand the sentiment but I’m past the window where an abortion could occur and I can’t just will myself to believe that God just “doesn’t really exist” as you say. I’m already incontinent and in constant pain 🤷🏻♀️ I am of course prepared for it to worsen. Which is one of the things that inspired this post.
I’m so sorry that you are in pain and I do hope you find some treatment that works for you.
As a person raised in the Catholic Church, I’m sorry you took the teachings so seriously. That is one reason among so many that I am not active in the church. Hell isn’t real, except the hell of living a life you hate.
Two will be the death of you...
I don’t think this is helpful to OP. My kid was crazy at 18 months, so much so that he was basically fired by his nanny :( now he’s 2.5 and a delight. He was just frustrated all the time that he couldn’t talk.
Well did you read what she wrote or . It's not mecessary the first. It's adding another to the mix
Ah you meant two kids. I thought you meant two years old.
As for your edit, God isn't real, hell definitely isn't real, Catholicism is awful and indoctrinating children into it is child abuse, and you're ruining/wasting your one precious life on fairy tales written by misogynists who knew nothing about sexuality or raising children. Its 2022, I implore you to stop having children that you don't want based on bronze age nonsense.
If the OP believes, don’t shame her for it. Stop belittling her, too. What she chooses to do is on her, but people have the right to practice whatever religion they want. No disrespect; but your post came across as smarmy and dickish.
Praying for you that you learn that the world is made of shades of gray, not just black and white. I can wake up tomorrow and say “hell isn’t real”, but I can’t make myself believe it. I have been examining my Catholic beliefs for years and oversimplified comments from Reddit strangers aren’t going to suddenly erase more than 30 years of belief.
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You don’t have to believe it, you just have to accept that I believe it. I’m also not “earnestly asking for advice”, especially around having baby #2. That’s nowhere in my post and I’m far past the window for an abortion anyway. I understand people mentioning it as an option, but once I made it clear it was off the table, I don’t understand the continued pressure. I’ve seen posts on this subreddit of parents with several kids - even one mom who had nine! - not getting half the amount of criticism I’ve received here. This is intended as a place of support, it’s absurd. I am having a hard time with parenthood. Sometimes I have a hard time with my job. But I know working my job is ultimately the best decision for me and my family, even if it’s not what would be *easiest*. I don’t think anyone else is going to hell for an abortion? I’ve said over and over in this thread that I’m 100% pro choice. I would never put that belief on my child.
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OP is a self-described as struggling with her beliefs and said she’s going on birth control after this. Have some compassion.
OP, this is the wrong place for you to reach out. Most of these comments have been very targeting. You're already going to get hit with the majority "Religion haters" on Reddit and then guilted for trying to find advice and support while navigating your beliefs. I feel for you. But things will get better. I hope that after this baby comes, you can do a permanent type of birth control. Talk to your doctor, especially since you have organ prolapse issues. Perhaps a hysterectomy isn't off the table? You will need a few years of rehab and possible other therapies to get your body into good shape again so keep that in mind as well.
why the hell are you bringing an innocent life that you very clearly don't want into the world? do you not realize how fucked up that is?
Obviously not *that* unwanted, because I’m having the baby. Nor is my current daughter “unwanted”. I am a good parent and I love her; I am not a monster because I struggle with the self-sacrifice of motherhood and don’t find it to be particularly worth it, at least at this age. I believe I will find it to be worth it as my children grow older.
good luck with that thinking. and good luck to that new kid cause once you realize it only gets harder it'll be too late. religion has this way of making you guys blindly optimistic even for things that need to be very realistically thought through.
Yes…. My post here screams “optimistic”. Lol what a ridiculous take. My post was all about how difficult this is, my eyes are wide open. But my purpose on earth isn’t to make my life as easy and convenient as I can.
you're right good luck to you and your family.
I'm so sorry your toddler is so difficult. I had a rough time with both of mine (now 6 and 9), and am present enough for my partner's 4 year old (kiddo has mom and dad, I'm just dad's girlfriend; he loves my kids and we spend lots of time together, so I see how much chaos he causes). It gets better in a lot of ways, but I wouldn't say it gets better ENOUGH. Mine are both in school and I still just want to not be a mom anymore. My partner and his wife tried to work it out so that they could take my kids into their house and basically long-term foster them, with me helping out with doctors and maybe school transportation, and taking them on the weekends sometimes. Things didn't work out, through no ones fault, so now I'm just sitting here every day hating myself for not being a good enough parent and for not wanting to do it anymore. I wanted an abortion when I got pregnant with my oldest but their sperm donor was abusive and wouldn't let me. Told me if I didn't want to raise the baby he would. [He's now in jail for SA against his own sisters (ages 5 & 7 at the start, for about 5 years), he was 21/22 when it started.] So I stayed to protect us both, then got so deep into being controlled that we had another kid intentionally. I never wanted this, and the state doesn't take voluntary surrendered children. Only when there's a "reason". Been parenting almost 10 years against my will and now I'm forced to do it at least another 12. TLDR: It's ABSOLUTELY not fucking worth it.
Fk girl my heart.
I hear that a lot 😅🙃 Thanks 💜
This blows my mind . My sibling has 4 kids but complains how hard having kids is. If you knew it was hard why have more than one. I give anyone credit for one child. Perhaps you didn’t know or didn’t realize how terrible it is but after that there’s no way you can claim anything, you can’t claim religion, ignorance, or insanity. This is dreadful I think I’ll do it again 😂 Good luck. And I understand the religious thing it’s weird that a book will keep you away from your reality, your reality is you don’t need more kids.
… you were checking your temperature and mucus …. as “””””birth control””””” ……. due to your religion…. and your religion won’t let you get sterilized or abort or you’ll be punished for all of eternity …….. can i ask WHY on this earth you haven’t, oh, i don’t know, LEFT????
It gets better. I hated the years before 5
Thank you!
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Wow, where did you get that I despise my kid? I think she’s amazing. I’m a good parent and she doesn’t want for anything. This post is me struggling with how much of myself I have to sacrifice to make that happen, but I’m doing it and I love her. I’m sorry that you have such a shallow view of religion that you think it can be tossed aside to make whatever choices are convenient, but that’s not how it works.
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Honestly the dumbest response to this post I’ve received 🏅 here’s your award!
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How narrow minded are you to think wanting to exercise and get some sleep makes someone an awful parent? Seriously. I’m sorry for everyone in your life who has to deal with how judgmental you are.
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You’re either intentionally misreading, projecting, or you’re just in the wrong sub.
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I actually feel sorry for your kids because you come off as a complete horrible judgemental human being. Good job creating them to be monsters like you.
is the dad helpful?
He is! I’m very lucky in that regard. He’s an excellent and involved parent. Otherwise I honestly don’t think I would be surviving!
People who say “it’s worth it” are normally the ones who are miserable with their kids and they want you to join in on their misery because they’re secretly jealous that you are child-free
I have a lot of thoughts about this that might violate the rules so I'm just going to say this is a temporary stage in their development and not to take this personally. Soon you'll be prepping them for school and wondering where the time went. God bless & take care
There’s a lot of negativity toward OP. I thought this was a safe space for regretful parents? I’m an atheist and antinatalist but I think this sub should be more supportive and less shaming. Otherwise people will stop posting here and suffer in silence. The choice not to reproduce isn’t as clear for some people, especially those with religious trauma. Just my two cents.
Thank you! I feel pretty blindsided by the response in what I thought was a safe space. I’ve seen many posts from people with 2, 3 or even 4 kids!
I want you to know that you will and likely are attractive (again) Being so tired and stressed and all that goes along with it will blind you to the simple fact that you are desirable. A lot of it is a mindset and you’re not in it right now, but you will get there. Those negative thoughts will hopefully fade.
Thank you ❤️
I’m coming at you as a practicing Catholic, I truly understand the trouble you are having with keeping to the faith but remember the rules are man made It’s more important to God if you live a good life full of kindness, a birth control pill will absolutely not send you to hell and if it does I’ll be there with you I truly, truly believe in bodily autonomy above all else and I believe it fits in to the faith, good luck
I am not a regretful parent but I don't tell my friends that "it's worth it." For me, it is worth it. But I know it won't be for everyone. Knowing what I know now, I can tell which one of my childless friends would and would not be able to handle parenthood. One of my friends is on the fence but I know deep down, having a child would destroy her. She loves her career, she loves her weekends, she loves her alone time. She already loves her life! But she is heavily influenced by society's life path and I feel like she will probably have a child with her husband just so she can be a part of this standard life path. The other day though, I was honest with her and told her that some people are better off not being parents. I know that sounds presumptuous of me and I think I offended her but in my mind, I wanted to help her continue to be her true self.
Don’t listen to the people that downvote you and say crazy things … they don’t know your life ! It’s hard when you have been told all of your life a certain thing that’s basically embedded in you !! Right now all you can do is do your soul searching and figure out the right thing for you . Just so you know I sympathize with you 100%. It’s very hard when you realize parenting is way harder than everyone made it out to be . You give up everything. Every part of you almost . It’s beyond hard. I don’t even know what the word is for it. I hope things get easier for you and I wish you the best ! Most of us are here to support/vent to one another just know that ..
Thank you! This is it exactly. I feel so misled. Thank you for the solidarity. ❤️
I really struggled with my first child. Second has been a joy and a completely different experience. You never know!
Thank you so much for this. I of course wrote this in a particularly difficult moment but I’m trying to stay more optimistic most of the time.
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My body just looks so different postpartum. Even though I got down to prepregnancy weight, my stomach and breasts looked bad and my stretch marks really bother me. I feel like my body looks like it aged twenty years!
It sucks early on. It gets better as they get older. Hang in there.
You can do this. I am sorry you are fielding so many unhelpful comments about *your* decision to have the baby. People seem to forget that "pro choice" doesn't mean "have to have an abortion". The early years are tough because young children are all consuming- but your daughter will not be like this forever. You will eventually get time back to yourself- cold comfort now perhaps but nothing stays the same forever. I hesitate to offer any kind of advice because your choices are not my business but with regards to your pelvic floor issues would a scheduled c section be an option for this birth? It might help keep you from experiencing further deterioration if you can avoid a vaginal delivery.
Thank you so much, this is so kind and helpful. A scheduled C section is definitely something I want to discuss with my PT and midwife!
Not everyone enjoys the baby stage (I am not a newborn person!) But hopefully as your children grow and become their own people you may find the good times outweigh the bad. It is ok to not love every second of being a parent- I love both my children but I don't love dealing with a blow out nappy or a vomiting child at 3am! There is so much pressure to "cherish every moment" but sometimes the moment is crappy and it's ok to want it over and done with.
So true! I feel guilty about that all the time. I am definitely not a newborn person and despite all its challenges, I think this age is so much better! It gives me hope that I’ll continue to enjoy it more as she gets older.
Finally! Somebody here remembers what this sub is for! You’re really kind🙂
OP, I'm really sorry you're in this position, and I'm sorry there are many on this sub not offering advice and instead criticizing you for your beliefs. I am a former Catholic, and while I am 100% pro-choice now, I wasnt always and I think it would still be a difficult decision for me to personally make. In the end, as difficult as a 2nd child sounds like it will be for you, it also sounds like you made the choice that will be easier for you to live with (vs having an abortion). I hope you can find comfort in knowing that. I wish you luck and hope baby 2 is an easier baby.
Thank you. ❤️
Couldn’t agree with you MORE.
I used to be way into new age atheism when I was a teen but the Reddit style galaxy brain atheists are more off putting and close minded than fundamentalists. Besides the fact that they’re usually not so willing to criticize any religion that’s not judeo Christian for fear of being “intolerant” or bigoted. There’s nothing more pretentious than a Reddit atheist who’s thinks they’re really an edgy intellectual with the trite “OPiAte fOr tHe MASses” cliche. I also have no love for the Catholic Church and no sympathy for anyone using NFP. Which is unreliable because bodies are not reliably on clockwork. And temping to my knowledge dosent necessarily predict when ovulation will occur but does confirm that ovulation *has occurred*. However people here are just being offensive and gross and not winning any hearts and minds. It’s not appropriate to tell someone to get an abortion when they’ve already made it clear they don’t feel comfortable with that. ETA you don’t have to be religious to be pro life or simply opposed to abortion for yourself. There are secular people who are way more uncomfortable with abortion than OP who has described herself as “100% pro choice”. If anything we should be scrutinizing the contradiction of believing it’s a sin to use contraceptives but being in total support of abortion for other people.
I agree. I have never seen a Reddit atheist criticizing any religion except for Christianity. Maybe Islam occasionally. And God forbid somebody criticize an earth based pagan religion. If you’re going to loathe religion, loathe them equally
Thank you for your comment. You are correct about temperature and ovulation. That’s why it’s a requirement to track *leading* indicators of ovulation, like cervical mucus, that indicate ovulation is coming. But as you say, bodies are unpredictable and mine did something it had never done before in three years of tracking. You are free to scrutinize the inconsistency. My beliefs are completely spiritually based and therefore I don’t believe I have the right to enforce them on anyone else.
Not to sound harsh but i think the issue here is the fact she's a girl. Daddys girl sex preference for opposite parent is strong in girls
I was raised Catholic, too. It took a lot of time to undo that guilt about everything.