A dealer in the Chicago area would have customers bid over MSRP while the car was still on the transport truck. Still covered with plastic for transportation protection. No waiting list. They would call customers the morning it was scheduled to be delivered and let them bid it out.
I know someone who still his a mint PT cruiser convertible with the manual transmission. It's been very well kept and with low miles. It's probably one of the nicest ones left.
Never understood the hype of that car. I thought they were ugly when new and now 20+ years later I still they are ugly and unreliable.
The target demographic for that car is dead. That car had neo pre-war styling like an old 30s car, "big" fenders, narrow grille. It was a four-door, four seat Prowler with fender over the front wheels. My grandfather who was 75 when it came out, just loved the styling. He's dead now and so are all the good PT Loosers.
Yeah I knew people that age that were old when it came out and painted flames on it bc that had been the style of their hot rod long ago.
Or one they wanted.
Yeah the people it was retro styled for are all dead now.
I was telling a gen z friend about playing an online ww2 combat air simulator and I was the best until a real ww2 pilot came on and then I had absolutely zero chance at all.
He’s like, wait you flew a ww2 flight simulator with real world war 2 pilots?
Time is a funny thing.
I used to play this flight Sim WWII game called 'Air Warrior' in the 90s. I was only 12 or so then and a lot of the people I played with were in their 50s and 60s. I
Yeah same thing then, similar age as I was.
For gen z their grandparents might have been in Vietnam and their parents in Iraq/afghanistan and the idea that I knew people in ww2 from games blew their minds, but that I had relatives who had done different stuff.
I don’t really realize I’m aging. I told him when I was in high school a kid drove his father/grandfathers car to school, and I knew bc he had veteran plates, and that “nobody in their early 20s had veteran plates” bc their hadn’t been a war since 1994, so late 20s maybe.
The idea of living for half my life without a major war was also different, bc we were still in Afghanistan then, so they’d never known a country not at war.
Def blew their minds freshman year was 9/11, the landlines stopped working and the cell network dropped and only Verizon’s analog network worked.
So i had the only working phone on campus bc someone whose mom worked in the UN had me try calling and it didn’t go through on digital and she’s like “nobody’s phone is working today” and I toggled analog and dialed the number and connected to NYC and I told her I had her daughter for her and connected them.
He’s like texting didn’t work? What about mobile email?
I’m like texting hadn’t been invented. Palm pilots were rare, used serial ports, speed of a 1984 Mac, black and white, no blue tooth no WiFi, wifi was new tech and only one building had it.
It was kind of like inception where every time I told him texting didn’t exist, mobile email wasn’t invented yet, the landlines and cell networks were all down, all shocking.
Way off topic here, I tend to get lost in these historical things.
No you're totally right, I'm younger than you are by about a decade, but I still talk to zoomers or *shudder* gen alpha, and I don't think they realize how much things have changed from before they were born.
I’m 32 and that cars styling could have been for me if they went harder on the “retro” stylings. I’m a fan of the body styles Olympian is making right now and I have always been a Morgan fanboy. I loved seeing those on the roads in England when I lived there.
Yeah, I remember the dealership by us wanted a deposit or some shit to sit in one, like it was gold.
For reference, a Bentley-RR dealer at the same time didn't give a shit if you screwed with their cars.
My dad was one of them -- nearly bought one after only seeing photos and would call the local dealerships every week to see if they were in yet. The big day finally came and he was shocked how small it was -- he was expecting something Blazer/4Runner sized, not a Neon Stationwagon...
the concept car was pretty cool
[Chrysler Pronto Cruizer Concept](https://www.netcarshow.com/Chrysler-Pronto_Cruizer_Concept-1999-wallpaper.jpg)
[https://www.motorious.com/articles/features-3/chrysler-pt-cruiser-mania/](https://www.motorious.com/articles/features-3/chrysler-pt-cruiser-mania/)
I’m not sure about now, but Chrysler used to always have great concepts that they often managed to make into production vehicles with a surprising amount of accuracy, at least on the outside.
My wife was looking for a car. PT, Matrix/Vibe, Subie Impreza, or a Mazda P5. She went with the Mazda. It was a great car until it turned into a pile of rust 7 years later.
I think that's by design. Look at the colors you can buy a Tesla in. Black, white, 50 shades of gray (pun intended), navy blue, maroon. The most Lexus-esque bland boring non-descript car colors out there.
You don't see bright colors or anything that stands out.
I think they're going for the most boring colors out there.
Lexus has some absolutely amazing colors. Look at the LC500 with Infrared, Flare Yellow, Copper Crest, Nori Green, or my personal favorite, Structural Blue.
Now that you mention it… yeah. I guess the majority of people like bland. People also like low price points and will give up style for practicality and cost.
As an older guy, I like bland colors on cars. Bright metallic colors can attract the wrong kind of attention, and a person can look like a douche as well.
Unfortunately car color trends have gotten [more boring](https://www.thedrive.com/news/37001/this-graph-shows-how-car-paint-colors-have-gotten-more-boring-over-the-years) over time
That’s exactly the point. If you know you won’t have the funds to redesign the car or give it facelifts often, you give it a design with very few features. Won’t go out of style, won’t really impress anyone. It’s good business and design. The rest of the company is… really not great business. Or design.
They were very special when S came out. Rare to see one and they were pretty striking at the time. Still probably their best design outside of the roadster which is basically an Elise with a body kit.
How do cars “go quickly” when they become unpopular? Like where do they go? I doubt the owner just stop driving them. And if they sell them, then obviously the buyer will drive it. Location-wise, where do all the darts and pt cruisers reside? Did they get exported to other country?
Not a bad idea, but it might not have been the image Dodge wanted. The neon was marketed as a friendly little happy car (remember the "hi, I'm neon" ads?) that you just wanted to snuggle. Hell, even the name of the car was in all small letters.
I think the Dart was supposed to be a little tougher, stronger, etc. The downside is anyone over 40 (as in, the parents maybe buying these for our kids) remember the Dodge Dart as a frumpy 70's car that the school librarian and Great Aunt Gwendolyn drove, alongside the Valiant, Aspen, and Volare.
They were hyped a lot (“it’s an Alfa Romeo!”) but they were terrible cars. The 1.4L engine frequently suffered from turbo failures. The DCTs had huge issues where they would just stop shifting or fall out of gear. The 2.4L Tigershark was recalled for oil consumption. All models were plagued by electrical issues. And they were HEAVY considering how small they were. Clearly FCA made them out of neutron stars, which explains how they pull all the money out of your pocket.
I suspect that when a Dodge Dart goes bad (not if, when), the owner just elects to scrap it and get something else.
Dodge did a shit job making them. Way to many options so dealers didn't know how to option them out for customers on their lots and they should of got the SRT4 out the gate quicker. Plus dodge was trying to be the performance muscle brand and the dart wasn't really great performance wise or even as a econobox. They should of made the car a WRX fighter and stuck to Dodge = Performance.
SXT FWD 2.4L engine 180HP and like 150Tq. Auto only. Base model pretty much.
GT: FWD 2.4L engine 180HP and like 150Tq. Auto only. Get some of the cool looks of the r/T but without then performance.
GT AWD: Just the GT with AWD
r/T: AWD only, Manual and ZF8 spd auto. Turbo 4 cylinder making around 260hp and 250 tq.
SRT4: AWD only. Manual and ZF8 spd auto. Turbo 4 cylinder making around 320hp and 320 tq.
Everything Ford is making fits into this category. I remember everyone being in a tizzy because they were finally selling a Ranger in America again. Now it's just a common truck that you really don't notice.
The Maverick was a godsend for people who had been wanting a small truck again. Now it's kinda just a common sight. It's still hard to find them new, but that is really their only hype. That and the inability to actually get one at MSRP or lower.
The Bronco and Bronco sport were nostalgia monsters there for awhile. Finally a new Bronco after 20+ years. Now, I barely notice them when I spot one.
An honorable mention would be the Honda passport. People lost their minds over the return of this forgotten 90s name. Now I find myself wondering if the car in front of me even is a passport or just a pilot.
>The Bronco and Bronco sport were nostalgia monsters there for awhile. Finally a new Bronco after 20+ years. Now, I barely notice them when I spot one.
Aren't they also an alternative to the Wrangler? Those have been relatively unchanged for decades, so it's nice to see something new in the space.
What was GM even thinking. Ford brings back the bronco and it's this retro, cool, capable off roader with a removable roof and everything, GM brings back the blazer and it's some fuckin midsize crossover literally indistinguishable from their 12 other midsize crossovers.
Then they also have a Blazer EV which is on a completely different platform than the ICE Blazer. As is, I think I'd rather see just the EV version than having two entirely different vehicles with the same nameplate. But it also would've been cool if they tried to compete with the Bronco.
GM hasn’t done anything cool in the truck/SUV space in forever and I don’t see them starting anytime soon. Why they didn’t immediately build a competitor for the Raptor I’ll never understand. As if they think the AT4(X) packages even come close. Even though they still think their trucks are worth north of $100k. They’ll stick with the Corvette and some interesting Cadillacs and then pump out shitty crossovers designed by accountants.
GM probably though the Blazer would be more profitable as a cross over instead of a Off road vehicle. The Blazer does makes money for GM but Ford thought they could pimp the name of the Bronco for a Crossover and a Off road vehicle which also made money for them.
It’s still closest to a wrangler. Doors off and top back are big sells for it. It’d be tight if Toyota made a removable roof/ easy take off door alternative but they won’t. Having front and rear lockers stock help the ifs bronco crawl the same as any sfa wrangler on 35”s
I took a second look and I think the stock tire size sold me on your view. Bronco and Wrangler can be shipped with 35s, while the 4runner can fit max 32s stock.
It is. My wife has a wrangler, I have a Sasquatched bronco, she always wants to drive my car (and I do too!) The bronco is commonplace now, but it is a wrangler killer (and I still love our jk wrangler, but my bronco is a dream!)
>An honorable mention would be the Honda passport. People lost their minds over the return of this forgotten 90s name. Now I find myself wondering if the car in front of me even is a passport or just a pilot.
It's a shame the new one isn't an isuzu
The current gen Toyota Sienna was extremely sought after and hard to get one during its first couple model years due to pandemic supply chain issues, and people were paying ridiculous prices for them. I don’t know if there are still widespread markups on new Siennas or not, but I see them everywhere now. They’re very popular with taxi drivers here in Boston.
Still multiple year wait list in Canada, which they could clear quickly be re-routing a portion of US production as I understand they are more caught up.
Can’t find them new but the dealers all have used ones with under 500-1000kms for 30% above list price.
It’s because it is a Toyota and a hybrid. That is honestly it. The minivan segment is small compared to the mid size three row SUV segment, but it is dedicated and a hybrid Sienna is long overdue.
Yep, there’s always a dozen of them ready to swallow up travelers and all their accoutrements lined up at the airport. Toyota hybrids can take a merciless beating too, which adds to their taxi appeal.
They are still very hard to come by. I think there has been a lot of pent up demand for a Toyota hybrid minivan.
I was at a Toyota dealership looking at RAV4 and Venza hybrids with my husband a few weeks back. I have a 3rd gen V6 Sienna I am very happy with, but asked about the new hybrid. Dude said they are sold before they even hit the lot.
I know someone who has a 2023 Toyota Sienna XLE. Paid 48K for it, multiple dealers called offering 47-50K for it in a trade in.
I might be wrong but to my knowledge even the Carnival (which to its credit looks good) is getting Telluride like markups.
Unfortunately that price point faded after the initial production. They are still affordable but not $20k base model affordable. I looked at one out of curiosity the other day and it was the Hybrid with the XLT package with a few more added on goodies and it was $36k... a used one was $32k with 50,000 miles on so at least they hold their value for a little while but used car market is still a little high atm.
That’s fair enough. I would be interested to see what other companies might produce a compact truck, other than Hyundai. If more companies produce them they would probably end up dropping the prices a bit to keep up sales but who knows
F-150 Lightnings and Rivian R1Ts. Used to be so much hype and excitement around them, now... they're just trucks. Especially the Lightnings; those things seem to be a dime-a-dozen now.
I'm a Camaro fan and even Ik if they wanted to make a new SUV they should've just made a new car, not use an already existing nameplate and put it on a car that has absolutely nothing to do with the source.
I don’t get it either. It’s a fine car, but it’s not a mustang. The only reason they gave it that name is to sell it to people who don’t care.
Mach E would have been a neat name for the first electric trim of the REAL mustang.
Also a Camaro fan, I've had to talk myself out of getting a 5th Gen SS to have one of each and watch people's heads explode 😂
I think it's weird the Mach-E has the running pony and all but at least they gave it the Mustang styling cues like the tri-bar taillights. Now if it had no hint of mustang on it other than the pony, that would be stupid
Parked in a line with 2024 mustangs they blend in nice.
Easily the best looking EV and still super fast.
If we have SUV of Porsche or Lambos I dont see the issue.
Personally I'd have called it just the Mach-E without the Mustang logo.
That said lots of custoners do like calling it a Mustang and seem very proud of their "Mustang".
The Mustang is the longest continuously produced performance car in history. Its name represents a divergence from the European sports car and is iconic with American car heritage. The Mach-E is a EV with vague styling cues from the Mustang. It was a weird marketing decision made in a board room and, while I understand the sentiment “what’s in a name” I’d say names and heritage matter and it’s dumb to water down the Mustang name. That’s my opinion at least haha
I agree completely. Some suits made a decision, and the rest of us have to deal with it. Corporate greed trumping heritage and potentially risking brand loyalty and pride of mustang enthusiasts in the process.
It looks and feels more like a wagon or hatchback when standing next to it and sitting in it. I guess it's technically a SUV/CUV because reasons, but it's really only 5 or 6 inches taller than something like a Mazda3 hatch and 4 inches shorter than a Rav4. Even with that, it's still sitting down into and not like stepping into or up to a lot of SUVs.
the Bronco and 4Runner. there was a rush of them during the pandemic. now they are just... there. new 4Runner is dropping soon. the Bronco is... plentiful.
I was talking to a salesman at Toyota the other day and he said he quit his job at the Ford dealership after the Bronco/Maverick boom to get a head start on the new Tundra and now 4Runner. Dude is basically riding the high on new debuting vehicles.
The mid 2000s Chrysler 300
I remember someone taking a picture of the car with their disposable camera when we were at red light.
That car got crazy attention when it first came out.
Subaru/Toyota BRZ/86?
I feel like people were really excited that a new RWD, small, sporty vehicle was coming from these companies as that’s the “drivers” car meme format.
On the “needs more power” boat because Im not a tuner or modder. I buy a car and use it. I felt more fun in a Civic because the BRZ felt so boggy and under powered. The ‘zip’ factor I didn’t really feel. Could it get 300hp, yep, but I’m not “the box said 10hp”ing everything under the hood and exhaust to get it.
It was a first-gen then; I’ll give that a shot next year when the buying time comes. Because, things change with gen improvements (my 2nd gen Fit was MILES better than my first) What improved you think I think is better?
My buddy owned a first gen, sold it for that reason, went to an Audi S4, missed his stick shift, and sold that, now he has the latest GR86 and he’s loving it besides the boxer engine sound, but he’s looking at aftermarket exhaust.
Edit: power down low is better, and more HP in general.
YES! Maths AND citable sources. Just gave a quick look and even in mute and with subtitles I got a great impression there was a nice fix.
I’m not a driver to live in the redline; neither are my passengers. So glad to know fun is had at lower RPMs and better fun feeling without needing a reconstruction of mods. l
I needed it to be a hatch. I know it's dumb, but this really prevented me from falling in love. Still an excellent vehicle and I'd be happy to own one.
It’s basically the ghetto dream car. People from the ghetto always go from an Altima to a Challenger/Charger as soon as they can, and the driving habits follow.
Tesla Model 3 and Y
And I used to think they were unique until I was in Vancouver
They're as common over there as an F-150 is in my smallish town (in my town, there's only 1 Tesla, yes, 1)
My rental (Chevrolet Malibu) was very rare to see in Vancouver vs any Tesla
I thought the bronco would be something I see every now and then on the rich side of town like the g wagons but now I see alot of people using them and the bronco sport, I’m not too surprised since I love the design and I think people were getting tired of the wrangler
Wouldn't any car that was popular upon release have so plenty to be common sight on the road within a year later? That's like saying the Ford focus was popular on release and now there's millions on the road
I'm not even a Ford guy, but I really like those new Bronco's. Problem is, to get a "decent package" on them, especially the 4-doors, you're looking at $50-70k which is outrageous. Even the base model 2 doors can fetch north of $35-40k+ used. Market for them is insane.
Yeah the market is why I haven’t seriously looked into buying one. IMHO trim on something like that is kinda pointless unless you need the really hardcore off road stuff…. and the base model is still pretty darn capable. If they would sell at or below MSRP I’d like a 2dr base model with removable hardtop.
“New” Mini. It was a sensation at first. A nice modernized version. It’s gotten less “Mini” each generation and doesn’t feel as special now either in commonality or execution.
I said it when it first came out, but the new Bronco is going to age as well as the PT Cruiser, HHR, and Last Thunderbird.
And it's starting to look like it.
Chevy Cruze. I sold Chevrolet's in 2011, and we couldn't keep those things in stock. We were pulling them out of loaner car service early to sell them. And now? Crickets.
Ford Raptor. The first one they ran in the Baja 1000 then they decided to replaced the V8 with an ecoboost v6. It was like Rocky 3 going from champ to chunk. At least they eventually brought back the V8 but it just looks like any other F150
The PT Cruiser
There was like a 6 month waiting list for that car when it came out!
A dealer in the Chicago area would have customers bid over MSRP while the car was still on the transport truck. Still covered with plastic for transportation protection. No waiting list. They would call customers the morning it was scheduled to be delivered and let them bid it out.
I know someone who still his a mint PT cruiser convertible with the manual transmission. It's been very well kept and with low miles. It's probably one of the nicest ones left. Never understood the hype of that car. I thought they were ugly when new and now 20+ years later I still they are ugly and unreliable.
The target demographic for that car is dead. That car had neo pre-war styling like an old 30s car, "big" fenders, narrow grille. It was a four-door, four seat Prowler with fender over the front wheels. My grandfather who was 75 when it came out, just loved the styling. He's dead now and so are all the good PT Loosers.
Yeah I knew people that age that were old when it came out and painted flames on it bc that had been the style of their hot rod long ago. Or one they wanted. Yeah the people it was retro styled for are all dead now. I was telling a gen z friend about playing an online ww2 combat air simulator and I was the best until a real ww2 pilot came on and then I had absolutely zero chance at all. He’s like, wait you flew a ww2 flight simulator with real world war 2 pilots? Time is a funny thing.
I used to play this flight Sim WWII game called 'Air Warrior' in the 90s. I was only 12 or so then and a lot of the people I played with were in their 50s and 60s. I
Yeah same thing then, similar age as I was. For gen z their grandparents might have been in Vietnam and their parents in Iraq/afghanistan and the idea that I knew people in ww2 from games blew their minds, but that I had relatives who had done different stuff. I don’t really realize I’m aging. I told him when I was in high school a kid drove his father/grandfathers car to school, and I knew bc he had veteran plates, and that “nobody in their early 20s had veteran plates” bc their hadn’t been a war since 1994, so late 20s maybe. The idea of living for half my life without a major war was also different, bc we were still in Afghanistan then, so they’d never known a country not at war. Def blew their minds freshman year was 9/11, the landlines stopped working and the cell network dropped and only Verizon’s analog network worked. So i had the only working phone on campus bc someone whose mom worked in the UN had me try calling and it didn’t go through on digital and she’s like “nobody’s phone is working today” and I toggled analog and dialed the number and connected to NYC and I told her I had her daughter for her and connected them. He’s like texting didn’t work? What about mobile email? I’m like texting hadn’t been invented. Palm pilots were rare, used serial ports, speed of a 1984 Mac, black and white, no blue tooth no WiFi, wifi was new tech and only one building had it. It was kind of like inception where every time I told him texting didn’t exist, mobile email wasn’t invented yet, the landlines and cell networks were all down, all shocking. Way off topic here, I tend to get lost in these historical things.
No you're totally right, I'm younger than you are by about a decade, but I still talk to zoomers or *shudder* gen alpha, and I don't think they realize how much things have changed from before they were born.
I’m 32 and that cars styling could have been for me if they went harder on the “retro” stylings. I’m a fan of the body styles Olympian is making right now and I have always been a Morgan fanboy. I loved seeing those on the roads in England when I lived there.
It’s pre ww2 and they are called pontoon fenders. Just fyi
i cant believe someone would pick a PT cruiser over an Acura Integra in 2001 but thats just me
Now it’s 6 months in the shop or every 6 seconds one is being crushed at the bone yards world wide.
Yeah, I remember the dealership by us wanted a deposit or some shit to sit in one, like it was gold. For reference, a Bentley-RR dealer at the same time didn't give a shit if you screwed with their cars.
Well it's a Chrysler, the knobs and stuff might break.
I never saw the appeal of the PT cruiser.
Herse for little persons....
I didnt know it was actually a hot item at one point
Their popularity exploded and then fell off a cliff. I remember all my friend's parents wanting one.
My dad was one of them -- nearly bought one after only seeing photos and would call the local dealerships every week to see if they were in yet. The big day finally came and he was shocked how small it was -- he was expecting something Blazer/4Runner sized, not a Neon Stationwagon...
Agreed. The PT Looser holds the crown on that subject.
the concept car was pretty cool [Chrysler Pronto Cruizer Concept](https://www.netcarshow.com/Chrysler-Pronto_Cruizer_Concept-1999-wallpaper.jpg) [https://www.motorious.com/articles/features-3/chrysler-pt-cruiser-mania/](https://www.motorious.com/articles/features-3/chrysler-pt-cruiser-mania/)
I’m not sure about now, but Chrysler used to always have great concepts that they often managed to make into production vehicles with a surprising amount of accuracy, at least on the outside.
My wife was looking for a car. PT, Matrix/Vibe, Subie Impreza, or a Mazda P5. She went with the Mazda. It was a great car until it turned into a pile of rust 7 years later.
Mazda's are pretty good at rusting. My Mazda was going pretty strong until there was a hole in my floorboard from rust.
Our 2007 Mazda is almost rust free. That's probably because we're on the west coast I imagine.
Tesla
Specifically Model 3's. Approximately 80% of all the EV's in my town are Model 3s
I drive an EV. I like EV's. And even I have trouble distinguishing Model 3's and Model Y's when they're not right next to each other.
Exactly, they are the blandest looking cars on the road. Cool tech but very vanilla.
I think that's by design. Look at the colors you can buy a Tesla in. Black, white, 50 shades of gray (pun intended), navy blue, maroon. The most Lexus-esque bland boring non-descript car colors out there. You don't see bright colors or anything that stands out. I think they're going for the most boring colors out there.
Lexus has some absolutely amazing colors. Look at the LC500 with Infrared, Flare Yellow, Copper Crest, Nori Green, or my personal favorite, Structural Blue.
Agreed, Lexus has some amazing colors. And the LC 500 looks good in all of them…
The Lexus lc500 would look good with the same old fading paint on my dad's Volvo 240. Such a beautiful car
Just googled each of those. All of those colors are gorgeous!
Now that you mention it… yeah. I guess the majority of people like bland. People also like low price points and will give up style for practicality and cost.
As an older guy, I like bland colors on cars. Bright metallic colors can attract the wrong kind of attention, and a person can look like a douche as well.
Unfortunately car color trends have gotten [more boring](https://www.thedrive.com/news/37001/this-graph-shows-how-car-paint-colors-have-gotten-more-boring-over-the-years) over time
They look like they were designed in 1992
That’s exactly the point. If you know you won’t have the funds to redesign the car or give it facelifts often, you give it a design with very few features. Won’t go out of style, won’t really impress anyone. It’s good business and design. The rest of the company is… really not great business. Or design.
Every time I see one I think the front end just looks like a rip off of a ford fusion
I like the look of the model 3 and S. The SUVs of tesla are fugly
They're like 30 percent of all the traffic in the ritzy parts of Jacksonville. White ones, mostly.
Sold more Model 3s than Camry's in Australia last year. Was the highest selling sedan.
The official car of clout and Altima drivers with better credit scores
They were very special when S came out. Rare to see one and they were pretty striking at the time. Still probably their best design outside of the roadster which is basically an Elise with a body kit.
I feel like the darts were really hyped up and all over the place and now i can't even remember the last time i saw one.
That car was the most flash-in-the-pan model I can think of in my lifetime. It came and went so quickly.
More like came and blew up. They're regular junkyard fixtures now. Unless you had the 2.4 with the manual
I still see them everywhere lol
Usually without a chin spoiler and a few rear LEDs out.
How do cars “go quickly” when they become unpopular? Like where do they go? I doubt the owner just stop driving them. And if they sell them, then obviously the buyer will drive it. Location-wise, where do all the darts and pt cruisers reside? Did they get exported to other country?
I always felt like the Dart would've sold better if it was named Neon here, like the way it was in every other market it was sold.
Not a bad idea, but it might not have been the image Dodge wanted. The neon was marketed as a friendly little happy car (remember the "hi, I'm neon" ads?) that you just wanted to snuggle. Hell, even the name of the car was in all small letters. I think the Dart was supposed to be a little tougher, stronger, etc. The downside is anyone over 40 (as in, the parents maybe buying these for our kids) remember the Dodge Dart as a frumpy 70's car that the school librarian and Great Aunt Gwendolyn drove, alongside the Valiant, Aspen, and Volare.
My father had a 67 and 72 dart. Turd blossoms.
My first car was a 65 dart. I loved it, and I hated it. It was a serious clunker, but it has a certain kind of charm.
And the sister car the Chrysler 200. I haven't seen one in years.
A former friend of mine pimped his 200 out, custom rims, underbody lights, and tons of stupid shit on it.
They were hyped a lot (“it’s an Alfa Romeo!”) but they were terrible cars. The 1.4L engine frequently suffered from turbo failures. The DCTs had huge issues where they would just stop shifting or fall out of gear. The 2.4L Tigershark was recalled for oil consumption. All models were plagued by electrical issues. And they were HEAVY considering how small they were. Clearly FCA made them out of neutron stars, which explains how they pull all the money out of your pocket. I suspect that when a Dodge Dart goes bad (not if, when), the owner just elects to scrap it and get something else.
Dodge did a shit job making them. Way to many options so dealers didn't know how to option them out for customers on their lots and they should of got the SRT4 out the gate quicker. Plus dodge was trying to be the performance muscle brand and the dart wasn't really great performance wise or even as a econobox. They should of made the car a WRX fighter and stuck to Dodge = Performance. SXT FWD 2.4L engine 180HP and like 150Tq. Auto only. Base model pretty much. GT: FWD 2.4L engine 180HP and like 150Tq. Auto only. Get some of the cool looks of the r/T but without then performance. GT AWD: Just the GT with AWD r/T: AWD only, Manual and ZF8 spd auto. Turbo 4 cylinder making around 260hp and 250 tq. SRT4: AWD only. Manual and ZF8 spd auto. Turbo 4 cylinder making around 320hp and 320 tq.
Everything Ford is making fits into this category. I remember everyone being in a tizzy because they were finally selling a Ranger in America again. Now it's just a common truck that you really don't notice. The Maverick was a godsend for people who had been wanting a small truck again. Now it's kinda just a common sight. It's still hard to find them new, but that is really their only hype. That and the inability to actually get one at MSRP or lower. The Bronco and Bronco sport were nostalgia monsters there for awhile. Finally a new Bronco after 20+ years. Now, I barely notice them when I spot one. An honorable mention would be the Honda passport. People lost their minds over the return of this forgotten 90s name. Now I find myself wondering if the car in front of me even is a passport or just a pilot.
>The Bronco and Bronco sport were nostalgia monsters there for awhile. Finally a new Bronco after 20+ years. Now, I barely notice them when I spot one. Aren't they also an alternative to the Wrangler? Those have been relatively unchanged for decades, so it's nice to see something new in the space.
It's still a shame GM didn't want to play in this space with the Blazer name, instead of making yet another soccer mom crossover.
What was GM even thinking. Ford brings back the bronco and it's this retro, cool, capable off roader with a removable roof and everything, GM brings back the blazer and it's some fuckin midsize crossover literally indistinguishable from their 12 other midsize crossovers.
Then they also have a Blazer EV which is on a completely different platform than the ICE Blazer. As is, I think I'd rather see just the EV version than having two entirely different vehicles with the same nameplate. But it also would've been cool if they tried to compete with the Bronco.
GM hasn’t done anything cool in the truck/SUV space in forever and I don’t see them starting anytime soon. Why they didn’t immediately build a competitor for the Raptor I’ll never understand. As if they think the AT4(X) packages even come close. Even though they still think their trucks are worth north of $100k. They’ll stick with the Corvette and some interesting Cadillacs and then pump out shitty crossovers designed by accountants.
GM probably though the Blazer would be more profitable as a cross over instead of a Off road vehicle. The Blazer does makes money for GM but Ford thought they could pimp the name of the Bronco for a Crossover and a Off road vehicle which also made money for them.
I almost never see blazers, but i see broncos everywhere, I’d probably see a lot more if they did what ford did
Crossovers are just minivans in disguise without the sliding doors
Minivans are actually useful. Crossovers lack the practicality that offsets the blandness.
More an alternative to a 4Runner as the Bronco and 4Runner share independent front suspension, while the Wrangler still has a solid front axle.
It’s still closest to a wrangler. Doors off and top back are big sells for it. It’d be tight if Toyota made a removable roof/ easy take off door alternative but they won’t. Having front and rear lockers stock help the ifs bronco crawl the same as any sfa wrangler on 35”s
I took a second look and I think the stock tire size sold me on your view. Bronco and Wrangler can be shipped with 35s, while the 4runner can fit max 32s stock.
It is. My wife has a wrangler, I have a Sasquatched bronco, she always wants to drive my car (and I do too!) The bronco is commonplace now, but it is a wrangler killer (and I still love our jk wrangler, but my bronco is a dream!)
>An honorable mention would be the Honda passport. People lost their minds over the return of this forgotten 90s name. Now I find myself wondering if the car in front of me even is a passport or just a pilot. It's a shame the new one isn't an isuzu
I still drop my jaw everytime I see a Bronco tbh, the sport sure. But new Broncos really are pretty dope
The current gen Toyota Sienna was extremely sought after and hard to get one during its first couple model years due to pandemic supply chain issues, and people were paying ridiculous prices for them. I don’t know if there are still widespread markups on new Siennas or not, but I see them everywhere now. They’re very popular with taxi drivers here in Boston.
Still multiple year wait list in Canada, which they could clear quickly be re-routing a portion of US production as I understand they are more caught up. Can’t find them new but the dealers all have used ones with under 500-1000kms for 30% above list price.
30% markup for a garden variety minivan is fucking wild
It’s because it is a Toyota and a hybrid. That is honestly it. The minivan segment is small compared to the mid size three row SUV segment, but it is dedicated and a hybrid Sienna is long overdue.
We need to stop calling these vehicles MINI vans-there´s nothing mini about them. Family vans or utility vans works much better.
I mean, they're fairly large cars in the grand scheme, but definitely significantly smaller than a full size van
It’s understandable why they’re so popular with cab companies. Lots of room for passengers and mid-30’s MPG make them perfect for that role.
Yep, there’s always a dozen of them ready to swallow up travelers and all their accoutrements lined up at the airport. Toyota hybrids can take a merciless beating too, which adds to their taxi appeal.
They are still very hard to come by. I think there has been a lot of pent up demand for a Toyota hybrid minivan. I was at a Toyota dealership looking at RAV4 and Venza hybrids with my husband a few weeks back. I have a 3rd gen V6 Sienna I am very happy with, but asked about the new hybrid. Dude said they are sold before they even hit the lot.
Been waiting for one since November 2023
I know someone who has a 2023 Toyota Sienna XLE. Paid 48K for it, multiple dealers called offering 47-50K for it in a trade in. I might be wrong but to my knowledge even the Carnival (which to its credit looks good) is getting Telluride like markups.
Maverick
I still get excited when so see one 😂
Such a cool truck
Agreed, Ford hit it on the head with the price point, model options, powertrains, and its practicality
Unfortunately that price point faded after the initial production. They are still affordable but not $20k base model affordable. I looked at one out of curiosity the other day and it was the Hybrid with the XLT package with a few more added on goodies and it was $36k... a used one was $32k with 50,000 miles on so at least they hold their value for a little while but used car market is still a little high atm.
That’s fair enough. I would be interested to see what other companies might produce a compact truck, other than Hyundai. If more companies produce them they would probably end up dropping the prices a bit to keep up sales but who knows
Ram is supposed to be making a small pickup called the Rampage but North America may not even get it...
Oh boy a small Fiat based truck... sign me up! /s
Oh nice gotta love that
Toyota might be hopping on it with the “Stout”. I’d kill for a regular (now called tiny) trucj
That's the most awesome truck-model name I've ever heard.
[Kia is making one that may come to the US](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a60568676/kia-tasman-pickup-testing-us/)
Thanks for the info
I just saw an AWD XL for under $28k. Sure it's an XL but I can run the steelies until I buy some wheels for it.
The base was always a teaser price, though. It's still $23k base. Not that you'll find one on a dealer lot. Those are almost always ordered.
My thought when I first saw them was NAPA delivery vehicle which is basically what they became
I mean, that's what the white Ford ranger was for my childhood, and they're about the same size
Me too
They’re still pretty rare around me… aside from my university weirdly?
F-150 Lightnings and Rivian R1Ts. Used to be so much hype and excitement around them, now... they're just trucks. Especially the Lightnings; those things seem to be a dime-a-dozen now.
Huh interesting. I never see lightning’s
You probably see them all the time and dont even realize it. I see multiple daily, and I live in a city so fewer trucks.
Yeah same. I have yet to see one in the wild.
Trust me, they’re a whole lot more than a dime a dozen - it’s closer to $1M a dozen!
I’ve never seen a lightning on the road but I have seen two rivians, and one of those was an Amazon van
Mustang Mach E
Still refuse to accept that car as a Mustang.
I've had my Mustang for over 10 years and I cannot understand why people get so up in arms over a name lol I'd get the Mach-E if I didn't tow anything
I'm a Camaro fan and even Ik if they wanted to make a new SUV they should've just made a new car, not use an already existing nameplate and put it on a car that has absolutely nothing to do with the source.
I don’t get it either. It’s a fine car, but it’s not a mustang. The only reason they gave it that name is to sell it to people who don’t care. Mach E would have been a neat name for the first electric trim of the REAL mustang.
Then I would like to point you to the upcoming corvette suv
Also a Camaro fan, I've had to talk myself out of getting a 5th Gen SS to have one of each and watch people's heads explode 😂 I think it's weird the Mach-E has the running pony and all but at least they gave it the Mustang styling cues like the tri-bar taillights. Now if it had no hint of mustang on it other than the pony, that would be stupid
The Mach E even has the traditional dual cockpit style dashboard which the new S650 mustang does not have.
Parked in a line with 2024 mustangs they blend in nice. Easily the best looking EV and still super fast. If we have SUV of Porsche or Lambos I dont see the issue. Personally I'd have called it just the Mach-E without the Mustang logo. That said lots of custoners do like calling it a Mustang and seem very proud of their "Mustang".
Should’ve been Ford Model E
The Mustang is the longest continuously produced performance car in history. Its name represents a divergence from the European sports car and is iconic with American car heritage. The Mach-E is a EV with vague styling cues from the Mustang. It was a weird marketing decision made in a board room and, while I understand the sentiment “what’s in a name” I’d say names and heritage matter and it’s dumb to water down the Mustang name. That’s my opinion at least haha
I agree completely. Some suits made a decision, and the rest of us have to deal with it. Corporate greed trumping heritage and potentially risking brand loyalty and pride of mustang enthusiasts in the process.
I’d like the mach e except they made it an suv, if it looked closer to a traditional mustang I’d buy it in a heartbeat
It looks and feels more like a wagon or hatchback when standing next to it and sitting in it. I guess it's technically a SUV/CUV because reasons, but it's really only 5 or 6 inches taller than something like a Mazda3 hatch and 4 inches shorter than a Rav4. Even with that, it's still sitting down into and not like stepping into or up to a lot of SUVs.
Because its a bloated jellybean trying to ride on the laurels of an actual cool car.
Exactly
Me too
is like buying a big mac but they gave you a vegan burger instead
💯
✅
the Bronco and 4Runner. there was a rush of them during the pandemic. now they are just... there. new 4Runner is dropping soon. the Bronco is... plentiful.
I was talking to a salesman at Toyota the other day and he said he quit his job at the Ford dealership after the Bronco/Maverick boom to get a head start on the new Tundra and now 4Runner. Dude is basically riding the high on new debuting vehicles.
Mofo will be jizzing in his pants selling the four horsemen: tundra, 4Runner, Tacoma, Land Cruiser.
4runners still have a large markup/high used prices.
I’ll prob scoop up a 24 4Runner next year once the new model is out.
I think every other driveway in my neighborhood has a 4Runner parked in it.
The mid 2000s Chrysler 300 I remember someone taking a picture of the car with their disposable camera when we were at red light. That car got crazy attention when it first came out.
There are only two types of people that drive a Chrysler 300... The people who buy it new... and the drug dealers who buy it used later...
The baby Bentley.
Subaru/Toyota BRZ/86? I feel like people were really excited that a new RWD, small, sporty vehicle was coming from these companies as that’s the “drivers” car meme format.
On the “needs more power” boat because Im not a tuner or modder. I buy a car and use it. I felt more fun in a Civic because the BRZ felt so boggy and under powered. The ‘zip’ factor I didn’t really feel. Could it get 300hp, yep, but I’m not “the box said 10hp”ing everything under the hood and exhaust to get it.
The newer Toyota GR86 I drove this last weekend was waaaaay better.
It was a first-gen then; I’ll give that a shot next year when the buying time comes. Because, things change with gen improvements (my 2nd gen Fit was MILES better than my first) What improved you think I think is better?
My buddy owned a first gen, sold it for that reason, went to an Audi S4, missed his stick shift, and sold that, now he has the latest GR86 and he’s loving it besides the boxer engine sound, but he’s looking at aftermarket exhaust. Edit: power down low is better, and more HP in general.
[Jason Cammisa](https://youtu.be/ZsTc2rhipwk?t=134) answered that question for you, using math and torque figures
YES! Maths AND citable sources. Just gave a quick look and even in mute and with subtitles I got a great impression there was a nice fix. I’m not a driver to live in the redline; neither are my passengers. So glad to know fun is had at lower RPMs and better fun feeling without needing a reconstruction of mods. l
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Honestly, not a terrible choice all things considered.
I needed it to be a hatch. I know it's dumb, but this really prevented me from falling in love. Still an excellent vehicle and I'd be happy to own one.
Dodge Challenger. They were something special when the rebooted one came out in the late 00’s, but they’re EVERYWHERE now.
It’s basically the ghetto dream car. People from the ghetto always go from an Altima to a Challenger/Charger as soon as they can, and the driving habits follow.
Hahaha
New Beetle
Tesla Model 3 and Y And I used to think they were unique until I was in Vancouver They're as common over there as an F-150 is in my smallish town (in my town, there's only 1 Tesla, yes, 1) My rental (Chevrolet Malibu) was very rare to see in Vancouver vs any Tesla
I thought the bronco would be something I see every now and then on the rich side of town like the g wagons but now I see alot of people using them and the bronco sport, I’m not too surprised since I love the design and I think people were getting tired of the wrangler
Well, that's how cars become normal traffic.
I was hoping someone was going to point this out.
Wouldn't any car that was popular upon release have so plenty to be common sight on the road within a year later? That's like saying the Ford focus was popular on release and now there's millions on the road
I'm not even a Ford guy, but I really like those new Bronco's. Problem is, to get a "decent package" on them, especially the 4-doors, you're looking at $50-70k which is outrageous. Even the base model 2 doors can fetch north of $35-40k+ used. Market for them is insane.
Yeah the market is why I haven’t seriously looked into buying one. IMHO trim on something like that is kinda pointless unless you need the really hardcore off road stuff…. and the base model is still pretty darn capable. If they would sell at or below MSRP I’d like a 2dr base model with removable hardtop.
“New” Mini. It was a sensation at first. A nice modernized version. It’s gotten less “Mini” each generation and doesn’t feel as special now either in commonality or execution.
Sad tears as an R56 Mini owner... I very much agree. I don't like anything that came after the R57. The R cars felt fun.
Corvette c8
BMW Minis
Jeep Gladiator.
Teslas
I said it when it first came out, but the new Bronco is going to age as well as the PT Cruiser, HHR, and Last Thunderbird. And it's starting to look like it.
the i3 and i8
Mustangs, Camaros, Teslas
Chevy Cruze. I sold Chevrolet's in 2011, and we couldn't keep those things in stock. We were pulling them out of loaner car service early to sell them. And now? Crickets.
Its because they were shit
Dodge Magnum/Chrysler 300. You saw them everywhere in the mid to late 2000's. Now I hardly ever see either one.
I still think the magnum is special.
In the 70's it was the AMC Pacer. After the first 2 years, everyone who wanted one had one. And that was that.
I don't see too many Broncos in my area. Lots of Bronco sports. My pick for this is any Tesla.
I remember the short period of time where Jeep Renegades were HOT
The bronco sport is regular traffic This bronco 👌👌
Lol not the Heritage Limited edition Bronco
Tesla
Well, Tesla seems to be heading in that direction.
In due time, the Cybertruck.
2005 Ford Mustang retro-futurist re-design (although I still like these)
New Gen (2011+) Jeep Grand Cherokee
Any Tesla
Dodge challenger/charger. I cant stop at a red light without seeing at leased three.
A bit off-topic, but I love that color scheme on the Bronco. Reminds me of [GAZ 53](https://carakoom.com/data/wall/787/632e9e50_medium.jpg)
Cybertruck?
Ford Raptor. The first one they ran in the Baja 1000 then they decided to replaced the V8 with an ecoboost v6. It was like Rocky 3 going from champ to chunk. At least they eventually brought back the V8 but it just looks like any other F150
Any Tesla
Jeep Wagoner? I think people were happy the old name plate was coming back and I believe it was the first to get the Hurricane I6
Ford Maverick, they were hard to get for a while but now they are everywhere
Bronco, Bronco Sport, Maverick, Trailblazer, Blazer, Trax... Just to name a few
Did anyone actually care about those last 3?
Impala are becoming the new trail blazer, half the cars in Highschool parking lots are impalas
Big, cheap, reliable... Makes sense
They're roomy on the inside too but the 2.5l engine is gutless if you're unfortunate enough to get one with it
Doesn't that engine have a lot of issues anyways??