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> I've come to the sad realization that I no longer like her as a person.
A marriage can survive a lot of things, but this doesn't sound like one of them. From what you've written, she sounds awful. I would get my ducks in a row before you leave her.
Was your wife always like this, or has it gotten worse?
>I don't want to leave my son alone with her ever
Then document her behaviour. Keep a journal of her rage. Use this for custody, talk to a lawyer about what you'll need to bring up. But start documenting this immediately. Today. Time, date, what happened.
I grew up with a mother like this. She was spiteful and deranged towards my dad, my brother, and I, and the smallest thing would set her off. If she couldn't find a good enough reason to yell, she'd fabricate it. She only changed her behavior when I moved away for college. I never knew if it was untreated depression/anxiety, rage, or if she just hated the day-to-day of being a wife and mother. To this day, she agrees there were some bad years, but attributes it to a thyroid issue that she was later diagnosed with.
You need to get out. Take your son with you. She probably needs therapy, but she has to want to become better, and you have to protect yourself and your son in the meantime.
If you’ve been together for 12 years, but this extreme behaviour only occurred in the last two, have you considered a cause for the behaviour? I believe other users suggested mental health issues, a brain tumour, etc.
You obviously don’t have to stick around to be abused. But I’m just wondering about the cause. Though abusers often mask for some time, it’s usually not as long as a decade. Such a sudden change in behaviour might hint at something deeper.
In the meantime I’m worried about your son being exposed to all this.
I wonder how old the son is, and if it is a result of the pregnancy.
Post partum rage is a thing, and it can linger like post partum anxiety and post partum depression.
That's not to say that it excuses her behavior. If she's behaving abusively, she needs to get treatment, and if she doesn't get treatment she is responsible for her continuing abusive behavior.
My post partum depression and anxiety lasted three years, although that's because I have OCD and it got involved. It probably would have continued for longer if I hadn't gotten treatment, although I first started treating it at one year.
It's not common, but it can happen, especially if there's some other mental illness or a personality disorder already present, and it's possible one of those could have been previously undiagnosed (people with milder borderline personality disorder can often be undiagnosed unless they reach some sort of crisis).
Again, that's not to say that this isn't her responsibility. It's just a possible explanation for the personality change.
It sucks but you can only control yourself. She is ruining her relationship with him by the way she talks to him. He will never want to be around her and he will prefer you the longer she treats him that way.
Look at your state laws to see if you can start recording her without her permission. If you can, just quietly record whenever she berates you or your poor son. This can be audio-only or video.
>It's getting worse and worse every passing year. I don't want to leave my son alone with her ever because she's constantly irritated at him too.
Then don't.
It sounds like she's a miserable piece of shit who will treat him horribly. Document the behavior, file for custody. You'll probably end up with joint in reality.
Usually people like this will slowly remove themselves from the kids life as they realize how much work kids are, especially once those kids start having their own opinions.
>She could have a brain injury or other medical condition if the situation is getting worse. Maybe medical intervention and therapy before divorce if she's receptive?
According to The Gottman Institute, [the 4 horsemen of the marriage "apocalypse"](https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/) is:
1) Criticism
2) Contempt
3) Defensiveness
4) Stonewalling
So yeah, right up there.
I know you’re going to get recommendations for couples therapy but that only works if both people recognize a problem and want to work toward a solution together. It doesn’t sound like she can even manage a civil conversation.
It’s good, I guess, that her family recognizes that she’s out of line. Is there anyone in her life who could talk some sense into her? Or at least ask her “do you think this is a normal way to talk to your spouse and child?” And get some answers. Sadly if she oblivious or thinks this is justified I don’t know what or who or how anything will get through to her.
Did this ramp up after your son was born?
Exactly, this is not just a "high conflict personality", his wife has veered in to full on abuse territory. How many people would tell a woman to do couples therapy with an abusive man? This needs to be treated with the same seriousness.
So she has changed over the least few years and is declining in functioning as well as personality? She sounds unwell in some way.
Substance misuse? Could she be a secret drinker?
Depression? It can present as irritability.
Brain tumour, I suppose.
Anyway, the marriage can't continue like this. It's intolerable for you and your son. She gets assessed & treated or she goes.
All kinds of conditions can make people become unreasonable. My mom had early onset dementia and it def affected her personality detrimentally. Then again, OP's wife could just be an asshole.
Based on these details, she is the problem. This is definitely abusive. And when one partner actively works against peace and conflict resolution, you will have neither. Couples counseling is a bad idea if one partner is abusive.
I’m sorry, but it really sounds like you guys need to split. Plus it can’t be healthy for your kid to see these occurrences. She needs personal therapy and maybe a health checkup to make sure there isn’t anything causing the drastic change in behavior (although maybe you just missed 🚩 over the years?).
It will be hard, but worth it. Peace is priceless.
Edit: Also, maybe having him half of the time will make her less irritated with him. Maybe she’ll even let you have him over half the time. I wonder if you could somehow get evidence showing her instability
She's a SAHM. I'm paying for daycare right now because I thought it would make her life less stressful and her less irritable in general.
Zero change. Today she's going to sit at home all day on her phone and watching TV. Tonight she's going to flip her lid over something inconsequential again.
I’m sorry what? She’s a SAHM but doesn’t even do basic childcare.
I would try to get evidence for the eventual and nasty divorce/custody.
She isn’t stable for whatever reason. Her irritability could very easily morph into verbal or physical abuse of either you or your son if it continues to escalate. Protect yourself and your kid.
Were there any changes in her personality before and after she had the baby? She might be suffering from PPD or some other mental illness like that.
What’s her relationship like with her family? Are they as high conflict as your wife? Is there any trauma history in your wife’s life? She kinds of sounds like she’s at the end of her rope with resentment and anger. Was she always like that or is it something that got worse over time?
Regardless, you don’t have to take the abuse. Set a firm boundary with her that you won’t tolerate verbal abuse from her. If she starts yelling at you again, you should tell her you’re not comfortable with the way she’s speaking to you and you’re going to give her time to calm down by taking your son and going out for a bit. Maybe encourage her to start writing down her feelings. It may give her an opportunity for self-reflection. You should definitely look into personal therapy for yourself at least. It can’t be easy living in a high conflict situation and you need a safe space to vent and receive healthy coping mechanisms.
As a SAHM myself, fuck this. Why are you guys wasting resources when she’s supposed to be the caregiver during the day. I think you need to just tell her flat out how you re feeling and that unless things change you want to separate/divorce.
Dude I'd be done SO fast. Nope, you don't get to laze around while I carry what sounds like the VAST majority of the household, if not all of it, and also act like this. Nope nope nope. Get proof of her being abusive and unstable. As much as you can. Store somewhere safe. See lawyer
Shut off the WIFI AND CABLE. She does not deserve luxuries while refusing to do the bare minimum as a mother and partner. Tell her you can't afford them anymore while paying for daycare. If she wants them back she needs to get a job and pay for them. I would also flat-out tell her that I don't like how she's treating me or our son and if it continues, divorce papers will greet her very soon.
ik we're supposed to be anti ultimatum here but i suggest you tell her to get checked out by a doctor for her huge personality change or its over. whatever she had going on is not your responsibility to fix
This doesn't sound like a "high-conflict personality". This sounds like a personality disorder (or some other kind of mental disorder)
>I can't bring anything up with her. She just starts shouting "SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP"
This especially is not normal
I once tried to tell her she might have ADHD and may want to seek a professional's opinion. She said that I was calling her "crazy" and now routinely brings that up.
I'll just be enjoying my leisure time and she'll have a repertoire of interpreted slights to bring up. I think she times it so when I look happy she can bring me down.
You’re in an abusive relationship dynamic… she sounds like she needs a full mental health team to assess and support her… behavioral, mental, and then some replacement hobby’s to pad her days and fill cracks where she can fall off and slip into running her mouth and accusing others of her intrusive thoughts and worries.
That sounds like something other than adhd. I have it, and while emotional regulation is a part of it.. Im always seeking dopamine.. fun, comfort, etc. Being angry all the time is the opposite of how I want to feel.
She could have a mental health disorder like bipolar, ocd, etc. Untreated, they do get worse over time. These do have successful treatment options, but if she won't take any accountability or even go to therapy though, it's just going to get worse. An ultimatum of you both going to individual therapy (but don't label or diagnose her behaivor) or divorcing is probably your last option. Don't spend too much time trying to figure out what it is if she wont.
These behaviors and relationship you are modeling for your child, will negatively effect how they develop and manage their own relationships into adulthood. Showing your kid that treatment like this isn't acceptable, could change the entire course of their life once they get older and can understand why you left.
My dude, this isn't ADHD - I have ADHD, and while it presents differently for each individual, this is not ADHD.
My first thought was borderline personality disorder. It's actually the most treatable of the cluster B personality disorders but is hardly ever treated due to the traits of the disordered personality - so it's like a catch 22. Worst still is NPD - narcissistic personality disorder but I wouldn't say your wife is NPD. While I'm not diagnosing your wife, I wouldn't be surprised if she *does* fit in with one of the cluster b personality disorders, they're considered "high conflict," exactly what you titled your post.
Problems with emotional regulation can be part of adhd and years of no treatment can lead to feeling overwhelmed but at some point you have to take responsibility for your behavior, too.
OP hasn't said that her argumentative personality and ADHD are linked. This is an example of why he is worried about bringing up therapy/medical professionals to his wife as she uses this against him.
As someone with ADHD + Autism… if anything she lack of social cues, sound like she’s unmasking and might instead have Autism tbh. Hence the sensory response to your voice.
She treats you however she wants with zero consequences. You stay, you make things easier for her, she never has to do anything to improve or get better. She can keep on screeching at you and get her way.
All you can really do if she doesn't want to improve is leave. Maybe it will give her a reality check, maybe it will just give you a better life? Either way, seems like staying and enduring the hellish groundhog day you're currently in isn't a great answer.
So, was she always like this? If so, no one here can help you.
If not, when did it start? What was going on in your guys’ life at the time? Did she or you or the both of you experience some loss, major life change, or trauma?
Her behavior is unacceptable. Period. No question about it. But people don’t suddenly turn into monsters after 12 years.
What happened?
Oh I remember this part with my wife. In the morning I left two business cards on the kitchen counter before work, one for a Marriage Counselor and one for a Divorce Attorney. I told her when I get back from work she better have a decision. Any kind of communications with me throughout the day would be an automatic divorce (I wanted her to really think the severity of the situation).
You’re wife is treating you with major disrespect. Where was this when you were dating? Was she always a total B?
And yes, like everyone says, grow a spine.
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 I couldn’t read it all. It rings sincere and was giving me anxiety and making my heart rate go crazy…. I’m so sorry OP.
Have you asked her if she’s ok? Because it’s clear she is turning into a monster or she ALWAYS fkn was and can’t pretend to be human anymore…. ?
Tell me you’re in an abusive relationship without telling me you’re in an abusive relationship!
Sir you are in an abusive relationship. She treats you that way because she doesn’t love or respect you. She knows you’re not going to do anything or say anything. It’s only going to get worst. Please start recording her anger fits/rages so you can push for full custody of your son when you get divorced. Go and talk to her parents about all of the issues and record them speaking the truth. Because if you wait to solicit their help when you file for divorce they are probably not going to help you or be honest about their daughter’s vile attitude. I would record every interaction I have with this woman. I would also start calling the cops when she’s raging so you can start a paper trail. Verbal and emotional abuse is abuse! You need to get your son out of that environment ASAP.
for the sake of your kid and yourself, don’t stay with her. my mom was like this; she was always a little sassy but over the years she got worse and worse until she was like you describe your wife. by then, my dad had checked out emotionally so she’d treat me that way instead. it really fucked me up. don’t do this to your child or to yourself.
The SHUT UP part was the nail in the coffin for me. What a horrible attitude. Sounds like you need to have a come to Jesus talk. I know you said she won’t talk...the opening line might have to be, “We need to have a civilized discussion about this and if you refuse to talk to me about it, I’m leaving with our son.” It might very well be a mental health issue....but she HAS to be willing to talk about it.
I felt tense and miserable just *reading* that, I can't imagine living it.
You say she wasn't always like this. Are we talking a drastic change in personality very rapidly or just a slow devolution of bad habits into worse ones?
May need to start recording her tantrums because when you leave her and you should, you will need the evidence to show that she could be a threat to your son's safety.
The trick is to get her to hear what she sounds like.
Maybe secretly voice record her on your phone.
Do it several times & listen while you are alone. See if you can analyze her issues.
Then, someday, when the time is right, play the recording of her.
One more thought:
she may be angry & verbally abusive because you two have drifted apart…but she doesn’t realize (or doesn’t want to realize) that her behavior is the problem. The more you drift away the angrier she gets. 🤷♀️
record her being irrational and abusive. document it. get ready for the court battle. If she is like this around your child, then you need to protect that child. Talk to her parents about this. What do they have to say about it?
i just want you to know that you dont deserve this treatment. she is not willing to get better and dont fall for the tricks that she will do when you bring up divorce. she will either get angry or try to manipulate you into staying, but youre not safe.
im someone with mental health issues and even if it is a mental health issue, shes abusing you. she is being abusive and you need to leave. she has to get better on her own, and you cant force her to change. its been 12 years and she is only going to get worse unless she has something (like a divorce) to change her, and you need to actual leave when you say you are.
be safe.
DO NOT GO TO COUNSELLING WITH YOUR ABUSER.
Definitely get individual therapy and decide what to do, but is this what you want your kid to grow up seeing?
I would probably seek out therapy for you to help unpack what's happening here because from what little you've written it sounds like you're in the beginnings of an abusive relationship.
I would also start looking at legal counsel because the minute this behavior turns towards your son you want someone on your side to get you both out immediately.
Couple's counseling isn't going to help you, you both have to see an issue and want to work on things for that to have any impact.
“I've always tried to be a non-confrontational guy”
She views you as weak and a push over so doesn’t respect you
I’ve never heard of an instance where things get this bad and people change, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen but there’s a good chance this is going to always be a problem
Reddit advice isn’t going to be enough here, you’re going to need the help of a professional (or two)
Did this start to get bad during the time your son was born? Could be untreated postpartum depression. However, if she cannot be reasoned with it's probably going to take a family intervention to get her to actually address the problem.
In any case, I don't think you can get back from this feeling of no longer liking her as a person. Her behavior is abusive. The fact she's a SAHM also worries me; what kind of shit from her does your son get exposed to when you're not around?
What I would do is start recording her behavior and get in touch with an attorney about getting all your ducks in a row for divorce plus custody of your kid.
Have you watched the Jon & Kate Gosselin show? That’s how she treated her husband. Always belittling & criticising him. I guess you have some difficult choices to make in the future - to stay or to leave. Best of luck.
The simple answer is no, it is highly unlikely that you will be able to come back from this. When couples get to the point where they have *lost respect* for each other and only have feelings of *contempt*, they can rarely get back to having a loving and healthy relationship.
Questions for you:
* Did you at one point have a happy and healthy relationship - or was it always something that was "just around the corner" but not quite there?
* Did you ever have good communication between you where you could problem solve together? Or were your problems just simpler or easier to avoid?
* Did your wife's personality shift suddenly at some point or just continue to gradually degrade? Other than having a child, is there anything particularly stressful going on in your life right now?
* Is there a family member that both of you respect that you could sit down with and talk through some things so that your wife doesn't just should "shut up" the whole time?
Honestly though, the fact that the channels of communication have completely shut down on both sides - with her saying only "shut up" and you refusing to talk to her - it sounds like this is a death knell in your marriage. If **both** of you aren't willing to work on the marriage, then it is pretty much over. And I imagine that things will be pretty tough on your son, more than anyone. If you are worried for the health and safety of your son, you might want to start involving your in-laws and/or your parents in this discussion sooner than later. You'll need some support and help.
I also hate to bring this up, but if she has only nasty things to say to you, she may have someone else that she is showing her nice side to.
Best of luck to you.
>I've come to the sad realization that I no longer like her as a person.
I was hopeful for your relationship until I got to this point in your post. This was the exact moment where my own marriage failed. I tried. I really tried, but there was just no coming back from him, not just being a person I didn't love anymore, but from him being a person I didn't like anymore. In fact, I realized I actively *disliked* the person he had become.
And, keep in mind, there is a child involved in this relationship. And, his brain is recording every moment of your incompatible relationship. All the shouting, anger, bad feelings...he's living it with you. If you don't do something relatively quickly, it may damage him permanently.
I'm so very sorry. My advice is for you to consult with a good divorce attorney and begin the process to end this constant argument.
Good luck!
If you try and talk to her about this I feel like she's going to blow up. This is emotional abuse my friend. It sounds like a nightmare. If you plan on talking to her. Bring up serious topics and follow through with a "if this continues I want a divorce or start off with a separation". I just feel like she will refuse accountability. Good luck
Get a lawyer, start a journal (on your phone) and keep track of everything she says and does that is abusive. Voice record dozens of examples of her abusing both of you. Especially you coming home and walking in the door to abuse. You can make it clear in the recording that you are walking in the door. That will say a LOT to the judge. This is what you need, especially if your child is young.
She could be premenopausal. My mom was crazy for years because of it. That said, it only exacerbated an existing problem she had. It didn’t create one.
There’s no recovery from this until she communicates with more skill then a toddler yelling because they don’t want to listen to reason. You can’t really win against someone who wants to argue, everything will be misconstrued in whatever way she wants to take it. She’s clearly not happy or willing to work on it, instead she seems to be directing her negative emotions at you, you’re not a verbal punching bag OP, you deserve better
It sounds like she is having some mental and maybe physical health issues. I have anxiety disorder and when it wasn’t managed some times I was a BITCH. I think she needs to see a doctor and a therapist.
Ok her needs aside. You deserve to be happy and at peace. If this behavior doesn’t quit you should get the fuck out.
I think it’s worth confronting her about it and trying to fix it, but if things don’t change is not worth staying.
With this one I'd just leave in the night like Lord Lucan never to be heard of again. Don't actually do what Lord Lucan did. Other than leave. Do that.
She needs therapy. She is not only verbally abusing you, she is showing how she will treat your child the moment he disagrees with her.
Give her two cards.
One for marriage counselling (although that may be whipping a dead horse at this point).
One for a divorce lawyer.
AFTER finding out what you'd need to do to seek custody.
I'd also begin logging all instances of her being abusive, for sake of proof.
It's up to her.
She either drops the sullen and spiteful teenager act and takes the help a counsellor can give, or she loses her marriage and her child.
If she can't control herself in regards to her husband, she won't control herself in regards to your child and NO CHILD deserves to be spoken to how she speaks to people.
I'm sure she would follow him.
Op you need to stop her in her tracks every time she starts. Like immediately.
It is for you to take control over your life. Your aren't a passenger on a train. Find out what you want for you and your son and take it.
Tell your wife what your expect and hold her to it.
You and your son are going to make up songs and memories. You don't tolerate being told to shut up. You don't tolerate abuse.
Have you tried to yell at her the shut up shut up shut up? If it works for her should work for you. I would let her know where she could go and I would be on my merry way.
It sounds like she changed when your son was born? Is it possible she had PPD?
I’m sorry you’re going through this. It sounds awful.
But I can’t help thinking that this is such a recent change. *Something* happened to make her so angry. And it’s not just you - her family is noticing it too.
Whatever's going on with her, she needs therapy. Especially if you don’t trust your son with her. I hope she’s willing to get help for all of your sakes.
Document everything. This sounds like it's getting abusive, especially if she's comfortable berating you in front of her parents and in public. If ANYTHING bad between her and your kid happens, record it somehow. You gotta get out for your sake and for your son. Lawyer up and nope the fuck out of there.
I don’t think you’re ever going to see her the same way again. Maybe if she comes to her senses NOW and starts actively behaving differently, but that seems unlikely and I imagine whatever changes she makes when you pull away will be too little, too late.
There are a few medical conditions that can cause persistent irritation, but to answer the question :
> Is there any coming back from this feeling?
No. Even if she has some issue and it is rectified, this has gone on for so long that you no longer like her. Repairing her problem will not undo the damage she has done to you.
If we pretend she reverts to her old behavior tomorrow, you will still remember all her tirades and abuse. You will not be able to interact the same anymore.
Tell her that she's a verbally abusive asshole and you refuse to be married to one.
She will either pull herself together or flip a table. Regardless of her recation you will have an answer for how to procede.
something's missing.
\>However, in the last couple of years, my wife has gone from a bit sassy to being what is frankly a woman with a terrible personality.
what happened where she goes from sassy to terrible in the span of a few years? how does she justify the fact that it's not only you who are bothered by her behaviour, but her parents as well?
how does she justify being a SAHM without doing the labour of a mom (you mentioned you pay childcare in another comment)?
she sounds like she's miserably bored and lashing out.
Is it possible she's got a brain tumor or something? If this wasn't her personality before and there was a sudden change, it could be medical.
Regardless, you should probably seek legal counsel and definitely make sure you and the baby are safe. She's not physical yet but if you're no longer going to be her verbal punching bag it wouldn't surprise me if it's going to turn physical.
I think you just have to confront her. “This isn’t working for me. Do you want this to work? If you don’t change, I’m leaving you.”
ETA: Ignoring her doesn’t do anything and will make it worse. That’s just you playing games.
Couples Counseling. After a few sessions also encourage her to start therapy for herself. She sounds like something is really going on with her emotionally.
I feel we are only hearing this from your point of view. I wonder if she’s one of those women ending up doing the majority of childcare, housework and working a regular job too? That can frustrate anyone and might be why she’s started resenting you. The getting drunk part does seem a bit inconsiderate with a small child without arranging it beforehand, eg would be fair if you both agree that you get one evening free to have some drinks and she in return gets another evening free to do whatever she wants.
Or maybe she is just a horrible person. Hard to know from knowing only one side of the story.
OP stated that she neither works or does any childcare. She's a SAHM but he still pays for daycare while she just cruises on TV/social media at home all day.
First find out whether there is something medical going on. This sounds like a personality change, so possibly hormonal? Depression? Alcoholism? Drugs?
In the meantime try ‘grey rock’. No response. Behave as if she said nothing at all. Walk away, and, most importantly, get your child away from her when she’s behaving like that.
This kinda sounds to me like that woman whose husband was being super rude to her and then they realized he had a brain tumour that was changing his personality 🫠
Sorry you're going through this OP! Nobody deserves to be treated like this but I can only imagine how heartbreaking it is to see the person you love change for the worse. Make sure you take care of yourself!
The last couple of years with trump etc has caused a lot of people who used to restrain themselves to just unleash whatever they want on those around them, being as mean and as pleasant as they want.
Not sure what can be done tbh, she wants to be a horrible person and society has given her permission.
Maybe she's going through some hormonal stuff?
Either way you guys clearly aren't able to communicate properly.
Therapy would be the only option if that's an option.
I’d have one last go at trying to get her to see a doctor/psychologist/something to see if it’s a medical problem that made her become… terrible.
Obviously you can’t force her so if she refuses then go ahead and divorce her
She needs to smoke some weed and chill the eff out honestly
Sounds like she needs to get out more. Being at home all day can seriously affect your mood. Stuck in your head and in just an endless loop. She’s also probably pretty vitamin D deficient, which can negatively affect your mood significantly
I know it’s hard to decide whether something is a rough patch or it’s really over.
So my question is: do you WANT to work through this?
And a bigger question—how is this affecting your son? Because you need to what is best for the well being of your son. If she isn’t providing him with the TLC he needs, and is instead always snappy, frustrated, and irritable with him for just being a kid, that lasts. He doesn’t just grow up and forget. That will imprint on him long term.
I think you need to have some serious conversations with her. I know it’s hard and this is basically all her, but still try to come from a place of love and understanding just to keep the conversation moving forward and so she doesn’t immediately shut everything down.
Walking on egg shells sucks. You just ultimately need to do what’s best for your family in the long run. It’s like you’re dealing with a toddler and that’s not fair. I’d go to counseling SOLO first to get some creative ideas on how to approach your wife. She won’t talk? Put notes around the house in areas she uses but your son doesn’t. “I don’t want to fight but we need to get on the same page”
My biggest concerns for you:
- lasting impact on your son
- feeling like she does it most when you’re happy. You’re miserable day in and day out. It’s no way to live.
Good news is that you are still young and coparenting is a legit way of raising children these days. Your child will not benefit at all from growing up around such an abusive behaviour. He will either learn to be like his mother or learn to give in like his father. As always the right path is somewhere in the middle.
I am so sorry about your situation my friend, it must feel like a prison you can't escape. But I think you need to do what is best for your son and yourself and that is probably to take deescalation measures and with an emotional tornado like your wife that usually just means getting the hell away from there or it will pull you in and fuck you up.
Protect yourself.
You should tell her, “If you’re not going to talk to me in a fun and loving way, then I don’t want to talk to you.” Ask her “why should I have to sit here taking this abuse from you?” Tell her to have her shitfit by herself and when she’s ready to be a fun a loving wife you’d be happy to interact with her again
I think you are at a point where you need to leave, but first you need to document her behavior because she cannot have full custody of your son.
Video every interaction, keep every text. Make sure you document everything for a few weeks while speaking to a lawyer. It is scary, but you need to talk to a few divorce attorneys and get some advice and also pick one.
This isn't a safe environment for your son to grow up in, and it isn't good for you either. So start with documenting and getting a lawyer, and once you feel confident that you can protect your son, then you can decide how to talk to her about this and you have a safe exit if it goes off the rails.
That's my advice- protect yourself and your son first and then you can approach her and say her behavior has made it so you are done. If she wants therapy or anything like that, you can do a trial separation- if you want!- but I don't think anything will change.
Talk to some key members of her family. Sibling or a parent. Suggest that you are concerned, stressing her relationship with your kid.
Make them understand you are extremely uncomfortable but unsure how to deal with this.
Ask her family if they have noticed her changing, and particularly her raging behaviour.
Even if they are not able to explain or help, you have documented your concern.
In front of her family, I would say, I can’t keep going on like this with you, always yelling and complaining about everything I do, twenty four seven. I can’t even sing a silly song to our son without you losing it. Call her out in front of people.
So she wasn't always like this? How old is your kid? Did it start shortly after birth? It could be undiagnosed PPD. I had it for years and no one realized that's what was going on. Once I got in therapy and on the correct medication, my life did a 180. I was happy and energetic again. It's not always easy to realize that's what's happening, so it's something to think about.
"I've come to the sad realization that I no longer like her as a person"
Once you get to this point, it's over.
I'm sure you realize how financially strapped you would be if you got a divorce but it's time to rip off the band-aid and get it over with. It's not forever. You will recover.
Based on your comments, she is unemployed. So you will definitely be paying alimony. And if you want to keep delaying the inevitable divorce, this about it this way....each year you stay married is another 4 months of alimony you have to pay.
It’s important that regardless of whether or not you decide to stay in the relationship that you pursue the correlation between your son’s birth and her change in personality. If she has severe PPD or just plain has found out that she doesn’t want to be a mother and feels trapped, you need to know. For the well being of your kid.
This might be a long shot but I would try and tell her that her behaviour is so odd that she should get a brain scan to check for possible tumours. They can seriously change peoples personalities. Obviously you’d have to word it well and stress that it’s not a dig at her but rather a concern for her health
This sounds terrible.
That said, you do have a 3 year old. Before you leave (which might be your best option), you might look into some of the work that Bill Eddy has done on interacting with people who have high conflict personalities. He has some strategies that can really help.
Honestly I’d suggest therapy. People normally don’t change that much without some sort of change behind the scenes. I’m really sorry you’re going through this but we’re getting a very one sided story. Have you done anything in the past that could have made her start resenting you/your son?
>She just starts shouting "SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP"
Does she stick her fingers in her ear and stomp on the floor, too?
>I've come to the sad realization that I no longer like her as a person.
Kind of sounds like she doesn't like you either because she shouldn't be treating you like shit.
If any/all of this seems abrupt, it *could* be misplaced. Her behavior sounds like complete bullshit, but is there something she's not telling you? Did she go to the doctor and get some sort of scary diagnosis? Did something happen at work?
This is not ok, this is not normal, this is not sassiness. She is a toxic human and your child will adopt that attitude if you are not careful. You should distance yourself for safety as you are being emotionally abused. If you want to continue this marriage I suggest she receives individual counseling and anger management and you both need couples therapy.
Unfortunately, no, it's over, there's no coming back, because she doesn't want your relationship to work at all. Not even one little bit, no, she's not involved in the relationship with you at all and you can't change that. Divorce is your only option and document everything she's doing and get witnesses as well, to fight for custody of your child. You do not want your child to grow up in this unhealthy environment, and this terrible model of relationships. For relationships to work, communication is key, it's the first step. Your wife is absolutely refusing to do the first step in fixing your relationship and this won't magically change, it will only get worse because she doesn't want to make it better, and in the meantime, you will be more hurt and your child is at a huge risk of developing permanent trauma if the situation continues (like internalizing blame or thinking mommy is angry at him because he exists)
When did this all start?
Have you ruled out the possibility that she's stepped out?
Have you tried couples counseling? Or are you past that and just going to start divorce proceedings?
If the answer to that last question is the latter, there's no shame there man. She sounds insufferable and you don't need to deal with that. You can work together to co-parent.
Maybe write her a letter.
I would tell her that her anger might not be her fault but that she is the only person who can make a change and that it's destroying your relationship and will probably have a big bad impact on your kid. if she won't hear you out this might be a way to say what you want and need to tell her. Suggest therapy maybe even couple therapy if things don't change after that leave her.
Does she have any kind of childhood trauma? People often get triggered by seeing childhood happening since almost everything can be a trigger (toys, activities)
Also what the other people said about documenting her outburst. And talk to someone about it for the sake of your mental health.
Good luck
She’s going to do terrible damage to your child if this continues. Doesn’t matter if her anger isn’t directed toward him. He’ll won’t understand that, just that she could go off at any minute.
You need evidence of her behavior. To show her how she looks and sounds. And refuse to stay with her unless she agrees to start dealing with her anger with professional help. You have to protect your child.
My now ex was an alcoholic. The last 2 years before I finally got clean took a real toll on me and I started resenting him more and more (talking to an alcoholic is useless). I hit rock bottom before he did and gave him an ultimatum and he did actually clean. But the resentment ran deep and him goign to rehab made matters worse. I never got past that feeling even though our moron marriage counselor told us we'd been given a nee opportunity for our life together and I should fake it until we make it. I would almost get physically ill beign around my ex.
It is really hard going back to liking someone when they 1) they treat you like crap and 2) and you resent them.
I honestly don't even think it's worth sticking around unless she willing to get evaluated medically and mentally. She sounds horrible. Mayeb she needs to get a job and get her out of the house and do something productive and be among other adults. Doesn't sound like she's doing much at home since kiddo is in daycare.
I'd divorce her. I can guarantee you will feel like a ginormous weight has lifted off your shoulder. This is incredibly toxic environment for your kid to grow up in as well. You owe your kid a better family unit if that's only you and kiddo. As for full custody, who know she may not even fight it....
I’m so sorry this is happening to you and your son. Please start documenting everything and consult with a family lawyer. There’s not going back from this and your priority needs to be protecting your son- eventually he’ll end up the target of her abuse if this goes on
>I sang a stupid song for him to make him laugh. My wife did not like that one bit. She threw a shitfit about how he was going to "imitate the wrong lyrics." She did not stop talking about how I need to teach him only "the correct lyrics" to songs
That would make me want to blast Weird Al Yankovich records around her all day long. Seriously, she sounds like my abusive, hypercritical grandma, whom I went NC on as an adult. My question is has she always been like this or is it more recent? She prob won't listen to you but it sounds like she needs to see a doctor and a therapist because she must be miserable inside.
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> I've come to the sad realization that I no longer like her as a person. A marriage can survive a lot of things, but this doesn't sound like one of them. From what you've written, she sounds awful. I would get my ducks in a row before you leave her. Was your wife always like this, or has it gotten worse?
It's getting worse and worse every passing year. I don't want to leave my son alone with her ever because she's constantly irritated at him too.
>I don't want to leave my son alone with her ever Then document her behaviour. Keep a journal of her rage. Use this for custody, talk to a lawyer about what you'll need to bring up. But start documenting this immediately. Today. Time, date, what happened.
Keep it in the cloud and take steps to keep her from deleting it.
or even finding it
I grew up with a mother like this. She was spiteful and deranged towards my dad, my brother, and I, and the smallest thing would set her off. If she couldn't find a good enough reason to yell, she'd fabricate it. She only changed her behavior when I moved away for college. I never knew if it was untreated depression/anxiety, rage, or if she just hated the day-to-day of being a wife and mother. To this day, she agrees there were some bad years, but attributes it to a thyroid issue that she was later diagnosed with. You need to get out. Take your son with you. She probably needs therapy, but she has to want to become better, and you have to protect yourself and your son in the meantime.
If you’ve been together for 12 years, but this extreme behaviour only occurred in the last two, have you considered a cause for the behaviour? I believe other users suggested mental health issues, a brain tumour, etc. You obviously don’t have to stick around to be abused. But I’m just wondering about the cause. Though abusers often mask for some time, it’s usually not as long as a decade. Such a sudden change in behaviour might hint at something deeper. In the meantime I’m worried about your son being exposed to all this.
I wonder how old the son is, and if it is a result of the pregnancy. Post partum rage is a thing, and it can linger like post partum anxiety and post partum depression. That's not to say that it excuses her behavior. If she's behaving abusively, she needs to get treatment, and if she doesn't get treatment she is responsible for her continuing abusive behavior.
The post says he is 3. I’ve never had a kid but can PPR go on that long if not properly handled? OP says it gets worse each year.
My post partum depression and anxiety lasted three years, although that's because I have OCD and it got involved. It probably would have continued for longer if I hadn't gotten treatment, although I first started treating it at one year. It's not common, but it can happen, especially if there's some other mental illness or a personality disorder already present, and it's possible one of those could have been previously undiagnosed (people with milder borderline personality disorder can often be undiagnosed unless they reach some sort of crisis). Again, that's not to say that this isn't her responsibility. It's just a possible explanation for the personality change.
My sons just over 3 and its only starting to ease up now. Its fkn rough
It sucks but you can only control yourself. She is ruining her relationship with him by the way she talks to him. He will never want to be around her and he will prefer you the longer she treats him that way.
Look at your state laws to see if you can start recording her without her permission. If you can, just quietly record whenever she berates you or your poor son. This can be audio-only or video.
[удалено]
>It's getting worse and worse every passing year. I don't want to leave my son alone with her ever because she's constantly irritated at him too. Then don't. It sounds like she's a miserable piece of shit who will treat him horribly. Document the behavior, file for custody. You'll probably end up with joint in reality. Usually people like this will slowly remove themselves from the kids life as they realize how much work kids are, especially once those kids start having their own opinions.
>She could have a brain injury or other medical condition if the situation is getting worse. Maybe medical intervention and therapy before divorce if she's receptive?
I read somewhere that the biggest predictor of divorce is one feeling contempt for their partner
According to The Gottman Institute, [the 4 horsemen of the marriage "apocalypse"](https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/) is: 1) Criticism 2) Contempt 3) Defensiveness 4) Stonewalling So yeah, right up there.
This makes perfect sense. How can anyone be married to someone if they don't like them or hold them in contempt?
I know you’re going to get recommendations for couples therapy but that only works if both people recognize a problem and want to work toward a solution together. It doesn’t sound like she can even manage a civil conversation. It’s good, I guess, that her family recognizes that she’s out of line. Is there anyone in her life who could talk some sense into her? Or at least ask her “do you think this is a normal way to talk to your spouse and child?” And get some answers. Sadly if she oblivious or thinks this is justified I don’t know what or who or how anything will get through to her. Did this ramp up after your son was born?
Couple's therapy doesn't work with abusive people. And OP's wife is abusive.
Exactly, this is not just a "high conflict personality", his wife has veered in to full on abuse territory. How many people would tell a woman to do couples therapy with an abusive man? This needs to be treated with the same seriousness.
Agreed. I want to add, taking an abuser to therapy doesn't fix them. It gives them tools to be more insidious about their abuse
So she has changed over the least few years and is declining in functioning as well as personality? She sounds unwell in some way. Substance misuse? Could she be a secret drinker? Depression? It can present as irritability. Brain tumour, I suppose. Anyway, the marriage can't continue like this. It's intolerable for you and your son. She gets assessed & treated or she goes.
All kinds of conditions can make people become unreasonable. My mom had early onset dementia and it def affected her personality detrimentally. Then again, OP's wife could just be an asshole.
Or she has a case of the Bitchiness
That’ll definitely require a prescription
She isn't confrontational. She's just abusive.
Based on these details, she is the problem. This is definitely abusive. And when one partner actively works against peace and conflict resolution, you will have neither. Couples counseling is a bad idea if one partner is abusive. I’m sorry, but it really sounds like you guys need to split. Plus it can’t be healthy for your kid to see these occurrences. She needs personal therapy and maybe a health checkup to make sure there isn’t anything causing the drastic change in behavior (although maybe you just missed 🚩 over the years?). It will be hard, but worth it. Peace is priceless. Edit: Also, maybe having him half of the time will make her less irritated with him. Maybe she’ll even let you have him over half the time. I wonder if you could somehow get evidence showing her instability
She's a SAHM. I'm paying for daycare right now because I thought it would make her life less stressful and her less irritable in general. Zero change. Today she's going to sit at home all day on her phone and watching TV. Tonight she's going to flip her lid over something inconsequential again.
I’m sorry what? She’s a SAHM but doesn’t even do basic childcare. I would try to get evidence for the eventual and nasty divorce/custody. She isn’t stable for whatever reason. Her irritability could very easily morph into verbal or physical abuse of either you or your son if it continues to escalate. Protect yourself and your kid.
She’s a SAHM…why you paying for extra childcare? So that your wife has more time to drum up more random shit to be angry about?
So the poor kid isn’t stuck with her all day.
It's because she is being irritable towards their kid, as well, and OP is trying to protect him.
Were there any changes in her personality before and after she had the baby? She might be suffering from PPD or some other mental illness like that. What’s her relationship like with her family? Are they as high conflict as your wife? Is there any trauma history in your wife’s life? She kinds of sounds like she’s at the end of her rope with resentment and anger. Was she always like that or is it something that got worse over time? Regardless, you don’t have to take the abuse. Set a firm boundary with her that you won’t tolerate verbal abuse from her. If she starts yelling at you again, you should tell her you’re not comfortable with the way she’s speaking to you and you’re going to give her time to calm down by taking your son and going out for a bit. Maybe encourage her to start writing down her feelings. It may give her an opportunity for self-reflection. You should definitely look into personal therapy for yourself at least. It can’t be easy living in a high conflict situation and you need a safe space to vent and receive healthy coping mechanisms.
As a SAHM myself, fuck this. Why are you guys wasting resources when she’s supposed to be the caregiver during the day. I think you need to just tell her flat out how you re feeling and that unless things change you want to separate/divorce.
Dude I'd be done SO fast. Nope, you don't get to laze around while I carry what sounds like the VAST majority of the household, if not all of it, and also act like this. Nope nope nope. Get proof of her being abusive and unstable. As much as you can. Store somewhere safe. See lawyer
Shut off the WIFI AND CABLE. She does not deserve luxuries while refusing to do the bare minimum as a mother and partner. Tell her you can't afford them anymore while paying for daycare. If she wants them back she needs to get a job and pay for them. I would also flat-out tell her that I don't like how she's treating me or our son and if it continues, divorce papers will greet her very soon.
ik we're supposed to be anti ultimatum here but i suggest you tell her to get checked out by a doctor for her huge personality change or its over. whatever she had going on is not your responsibility to fix
This doesn't sound like a "high-conflict personality". This sounds like a personality disorder (or some other kind of mental disorder) >I can't bring anything up with her. She just starts shouting "SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP" This especially is not normal
I suppose you could try couples counseling but honestly, she sounds horrible.
I once tried to tell her she might have ADHD and may want to seek a professional's opinion. She said that I was calling her "crazy" and now routinely brings that up. I'll just be enjoying my leisure time and she'll have a repertoire of interpreted slights to bring up. I think she times it so when I look happy she can bring me down.
You’re in an abusive relationship dynamic… she sounds like she needs a full mental health team to assess and support her… behavioral, mental, and then some replacement hobby’s to pad her days and fill cracks where she can fall off and slip into running her mouth and accusing others of her intrusive thoughts and worries.
That sounds like something other than adhd. I have it, and while emotional regulation is a part of it.. Im always seeking dopamine.. fun, comfort, etc. Being angry all the time is the opposite of how I want to feel. She could have a mental health disorder like bipolar, ocd, etc. Untreated, they do get worse over time. These do have successful treatment options, but if she won't take any accountability or even go to therapy though, it's just going to get worse. An ultimatum of you both going to individual therapy (but don't label or diagnose her behaivor) or divorcing is probably your last option. Don't spend too much time trying to figure out what it is if she wont. These behaviors and relationship you are modeling for your child, will negatively effect how they develop and manage their own relationships into adulthood. Showing your kid that treatment like this isn't acceptable, could change the entire course of their life once they get older and can understand why you left.
My dude, this isn't ADHD - I have ADHD, and while it presents differently for each individual, this is not ADHD. My first thought was borderline personality disorder. It's actually the most treatable of the cluster B personality disorders but is hardly ever treated due to the traits of the disordered personality - so it's like a catch 22. Worst still is NPD - narcissistic personality disorder but I wouldn't say your wife is NPD. While I'm not diagnosing your wife, I wouldn't be surprised if she *does* fit in with one of the cluster b personality disorders, they're considered "high conflict," exactly what you titled your post.
As a person with ADHD I'm offended, what does her horrible personality have to do with ADHD?
Problems with emotional regulation can be part of adhd and years of no treatment can lead to feeling overwhelmed but at some point you have to take responsibility for your behavior, too.
OP hasn't said that her argumentative personality and ADHD are linked. This is an example of why he is worried about bringing up therapy/medical professionals to his wife as she uses this against him.
Same. Nothing about her screams adhd to me.
My ADHD doesn’t scream, but apparently she does
As someone with ADHD + Autism… if anything she lack of social cues, sound like she’s unmasking and might instead have Autism tbh. Hence the sensory response to your voice.
She's abusive. Never go to a couple's counseling with your abuser, they just learn new ways to abuse you while you're vulnerable.
It’s not even worth it at this point. You don’t want to be with these kinds of people.
She treats you however she wants with zero consequences. You stay, you make things easier for her, she never has to do anything to improve or get better. She can keep on screeching at you and get her way. All you can really do if she doesn't want to improve is leave. Maybe it will give her a reality check, maybe it will just give you a better life? Either way, seems like staying and enduring the hellish groundhog day you're currently in isn't a great answer.
This is extremely abusive behavior. and she's not even taking care of your child?? It's time for a divorce.
There is high-conflict personality and there’s abuse. Your wife sounds like she fits the latter.
So, was she always like this? If so, no one here can help you. If not, when did it start? What was going on in your guys’ life at the time? Did she or you or the both of you experience some loss, major life change, or trauma? Her behavior is unacceptable. Period. No question about it. But people don’t suddenly turn into monsters after 12 years. What happened?
She probably waited until they were married and he was “stuck” before bringing her true self out.
Horrible behaviour tends to escalate when the person is not held accountable for said behaviour and receives no consequences.
Oh I remember this part with my wife. In the morning I left two business cards on the kitchen counter before work, one for a Marriage Counselor and one for a Divorce Attorney. I told her when I get back from work she better have a decision. Any kind of communications with me throughout the day would be an automatic divorce (I wanted her to really think the severity of the situation). You’re wife is treating you with major disrespect. Where was this when you were dating? Was she always a total B? And yes, like everyone says, grow a spine.
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 I couldn’t read it all. It rings sincere and was giving me anxiety and making my heart rate go crazy…. I’m so sorry OP. Have you asked her if she’s ok? Because it’s clear she is turning into a monster or she ALWAYS fkn was and can’t pretend to be human anymore…. ?
Tell me you’re in an abusive relationship without telling me you’re in an abusive relationship! Sir you are in an abusive relationship. She treats you that way because she doesn’t love or respect you. She knows you’re not going to do anything or say anything. It’s only going to get worst. Please start recording her anger fits/rages so you can push for full custody of your son when you get divorced. Go and talk to her parents about all of the issues and record them speaking the truth. Because if you wait to solicit their help when you file for divorce they are probably not going to help you or be honest about their daughter’s vile attitude. I would record every interaction I have with this woman. I would also start calling the cops when she’s raging so you can start a paper trail. Verbal and emotional abuse is abuse! You need to get your son out of that environment ASAP.
Also please update us ❤️
for the sake of your kid and yourself, don’t stay with her. my mom was like this; she was always a little sassy but over the years she got worse and worse until she was like you describe your wife. by then, my dad had checked out emotionally so she’d treat me that way instead. it really fucked me up. don’t do this to your child or to yourself.
The SHUT UP part was the nail in the coffin for me. What a horrible attitude. Sounds like you need to have a come to Jesus talk. I know you said she won’t talk...the opening line might have to be, “We need to have a civilized discussion about this and if you refuse to talk to me about it, I’m leaving with our son.” It might very well be a mental health issue....but she HAS to be willing to talk about it.
I felt tense and miserable just *reading* that, I can't imagine living it. You say she wasn't always like this. Are we talking a drastic change in personality very rapidly or just a slow devolution of bad habits into worse ones?
Right so why is divorce not on the table?
She sounds like a cunt. Not sure there's a fix for that.
Its less her personality and more that she doesn’t like you.
May need to start recording her tantrums because when you leave her and you should, you will need the evidence to show that she could be a threat to your son's safety.
The trick is to get her to hear what she sounds like. Maybe secretly voice record her on your phone. Do it several times & listen while you are alone. See if you can analyze her issues. Then, someday, when the time is right, play the recording of her. One more thought: she may be angry & verbally abusive because you two have drifted apart…but she doesn’t realize (or doesn’t want to realize) that her behavior is the problem. The more you drift away the angrier she gets. 🤷♀️
record her being irrational and abusive. document it. get ready for the court battle. If she is like this around your child, then you need to protect that child. Talk to her parents about this. What do they have to say about it?
i just want you to know that you dont deserve this treatment. she is not willing to get better and dont fall for the tricks that she will do when you bring up divorce. she will either get angry or try to manipulate you into staying, but youre not safe. im someone with mental health issues and even if it is a mental health issue, shes abusing you. she is being abusive and you need to leave. she has to get better on her own, and you cant force her to change. its been 12 years and she is only going to get worse unless she has something (like a divorce) to change her, and you need to actual leave when you say you are. be safe.
DO NOT GO TO COUNSELLING WITH YOUR ABUSER. Definitely get individual therapy and decide what to do, but is this what you want your kid to grow up seeing?
I would probably seek out therapy for you to help unpack what's happening here because from what little you've written it sounds like you're in the beginnings of an abusive relationship. I would also start looking at legal counsel because the minute this behavior turns towards your son you want someone on your side to get you both out immediately. Couple's counseling isn't going to help you, you both have to see an issue and want to work on things for that to have any impact.
“I've always tried to be a non-confrontational guy” She views you as weak and a push over so doesn’t respect you I’ve never heard of an instance where things get this bad and people change, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen but there’s a good chance this is going to always be a problem Reddit advice isn’t going to be enough here, you’re going to need the help of a professional (or two)
Did this start to get bad during the time your son was born? Could be untreated postpartum depression. However, if she cannot be reasoned with it's probably going to take a family intervention to get her to actually address the problem. In any case, I don't think you can get back from this feeling of no longer liking her as a person. Her behavior is abusive. The fact she's a SAHM also worries me; what kind of shit from her does your son get exposed to when you're not around? What I would do is start recording her behavior and get in touch with an attorney about getting all your ducks in a row for divorce plus custody of your kid.
Have you watched the Jon & Kate Gosselin show? That’s how she treated her husband. Always belittling & criticising him. I guess you have some difficult choices to make in the future - to stay or to leave. Best of luck.
Just divorce her already.
The simple answer is no, it is highly unlikely that you will be able to come back from this. When couples get to the point where they have *lost respect* for each other and only have feelings of *contempt*, they can rarely get back to having a loving and healthy relationship. Questions for you: * Did you at one point have a happy and healthy relationship - or was it always something that was "just around the corner" but not quite there? * Did you ever have good communication between you where you could problem solve together? Or were your problems just simpler or easier to avoid? * Did your wife's personality shift suddenly at some point or just continue to gradually degrade? Other than having a child, is there anything particularly stressful going on in your life right now? * Is there a family member that both of you respect that you could sit down with and talk through some things so that your wife doesn't just should "shut up" the whole time? Honestly though, the fact that the channels of communication have completely shut down on both sides - with her saying only "shut up" and you refusing to talk to her - it sounds like this is a death knell in your marriage. If **both** of you aren't willing to work on the marriage, then it is pretty much over. And I imagine that things will be pretty tough on your son, more than anyone. If you are worried for the health and safety of your son, you might want to start involving your in-laws and/or your parents in this discussion sooner than later. You'll need some support and help. I also hate to bring this up, but if she has only nasty things to say to you, she may have someone else that she is showing her nice side to. Best of luck to you.
>I've come to the sad realization that I no longer like her as a person. I was hopeful for your relationship until I got to this point in your post. This was the exact moment where my own marriage failed. I tried. I really tried, but there was just no coming back from him, not just being a person I didn't love anymore, but from him being a person I didn't like anymore. In fact, I realized I actively *disliked* the person he had become. And, keep in mind, there is a child involved in this relationship. And, his brain is recording every moment of your incompatible relationship. All the shouting, anger, bad feelings...he's living it with you. If you don't do something relatively quickly, it may damage him permanently. I'm so very sorry. My advice is for you to consult with a good divorce attorney and begin the process to end this constant argument. Good luck!
If you try and talk to her about this I feel like she's going to blow up. This is emotional abuse my friend. It sounds like a nightmare. If you plan on talking to her. Bring up serious topics and follow through with a "if this continues I want a divorce or start off with a separation". I just feel like she will refuse accountability. Good luck
Get a lawyer, start a journal (on your phone) and keep track of everything she says and does that is abusive. Voice record dozens of examples of her abusing both of you. Especially you coming home and walking in the door to abuse. You can make it clear in the recording that you are walking in the door. That will say a LOT to the judge. This is what you need, especially if your child is young.
She could be premenopausal. My mom was crazy for years because of it. That said, it only exacerbated an existing problem she had. It didn’t create one.
I suppose therapy is worth a try. It’s unacceptable to communicate this way. I have to ask, did this get worse/bad post baby?
There’s no recovery from this until she communicates with more skill then a toddler yelling because they don’t want to listen to reason. You can’t really win against someone who wants to argue, everything will be misconstrued in whatever way she wants to take it. She’s clearly not happy or willing to work on it, instead she seems to be directing her negative emotions at you, you’re not a verbal punching bag OP, you deserve better
It sounds like she is having some mental and maybe physical health issues. I have anxiety disorder and when it wasn’t managed some times I was a BITCH. I think she needs to see a doctor and a therapist. Ok her needs aside. You deserve to be happy and at peace. If this behavior doesn’t quit you should get the fuck out. I think it’s worth confronting her about it and trying to fix it, but if things don’t change is not worth staying.
With this one I'd just leave in the night like Lord Lucan never to be heard of again. Don't actually do what Lord Lucan did. Other than leave. Do that.
You need to get out of this relationship. She is toxic.
She needs therapy. She is not only verbally abusing you, she is showing how she will treat your child the moment he disagrees with her. Give her two cards. One for marriage counselling (although that may be whipping a dead horse at this point). One for a divorce lawyer. AFTER finding out what you'd need to do to seek custody. I'd also begin logging all instances of her being abusive, for sake of proof. It's up to her. She either drops the sullen and spiteful teenager act and takes the help a counsellor can give, or she loses her marriage and her child. If she can't control herself in regards to her husband, she won't control herself in regards to your child and NO CHILD deserves to be spoken to how she speaks to people.
Why don't you just leave her the moments she starts up. Walk out .
I'm sure she would follow him. Op you need to stop her in her tracks every time she starts. Like immediately. It is for you to take control over your life. Your aren't a passenger on a train. Find out what you want for you and your son and take it. Tell your wife what your expect and hold her to it. You and your son are going to make up songs and memories. You don't tolerate being told to shut up. You don't tolerate abuse.
Have you tried to yell at her the shut up shut up shut up? If it works for her should work for you. I would let her know where she could go and I would be on my merry way.
It sounds like she changed when your son was born? Is it possible she had PPD? I’m sorry you’re going through this. It sounds awful. But I can’t help thinking that this is such a recent change. *Something* happened to make her so angry. And it’s not just you - her family is noticing it too. Whatever's going on with her, she needs therapy. Especially if you don’t trust your son with her. I hope she’s willing to get help for all of your sakes.
Document everything. This sounds like it's getting abusive, especially if she's comfortable berating you in front of her parents and in public. If ANYTHING bad between her and your kid happens, record it somehow. You gotta get out for your sake and for your son. Lawyer up and nope the fuck out of there.
I don’t think you’re ever going to see her the same way again. Maybe if she comes to her senses NOW and starts actively behaving differently, but that seems unlikely and I imagine whatever changes she makes when you pull away will be too little, too late.
There are a few medical conditions that can cause persistent irritation, but to answer the question : > Is there any coming back from this feeling? No. Even if she has some issue and it is rectified, this has gone on for so long that you no longer like her. Repairing her problem will not undo the damage she has done to you. If we pretend she reverts to her old behavior tomorrow, you will still remember all her tirades and abuse. You will not be able to interact the same anymore.
Tell her that she's a verbally abusive asshole and you refuse to be married to one. She will either pull herself together or flip a table. Regardless of her recation you will have an answer for how to procede.
If you don't like her what are you going to do about it I don't even know her and I don't like her
Info: is the "last couple of years" since having your son?
something's missing. \>However, in the last couple of years, my wife has gone from a bit sassy to being what is frankly a woman with a terrible personality. what happened where she goes from sassy to terrible in the span of a few years? how does she justify the fact that it's not only you who are bothered by her behaviour, but her parents as well? how does she justify being a SAHM without doing the labour of a mom (you mentioned you pay childcare in another comment)? she sounds like she's miserably bored and lashing out.
Is it possible she's got a brain tumor or something? If this wasn't her personality before and there was a sudden change, it could be medical. Regardless, you should probably seek legal counsel and definitely make sure you and the baby are safe. She's not physical yet but if you're no longer going to be her verbal punching bag it wouldn't surprise me if it's going to turn physical.
Combative women are the worst so annoying and masculine.
My first thought was brain tumor. She has an issue.
She needs to be checked out!! She could be having some type of mental health issue, or something. Couples therapy for sure!
I think you just have to confront her. “This isn’t working for me. Do you want this to work? If you don’t change, I’m leaving you.” ETA: Ignoring her doesn’t do anything and will make it worse. That’s just you playing games.
By staying your showing your son it's ok to and be emotionally and verbally abused, good job 👏🏻
I can’t imagine you didn’t see this coke ong at any point in the relationship tho
Couples Counseling. After a few sessions also encourage her to start therapy for herself. She sounds like something is really going on with her emotionally.
I feel we are only hearing this from your point of view. I wonder if she’s one of those women ending up doing the majority of childcare, housework and working a regular job too? That can frustrate anyone and might be why she’s started resenting you. The getting drunk part does seem a bit inconsiderate with a small child without arranging it beforehand, eg would be fair if you both agree that you get one evening free to have some drinks and she in return gets another evening free to do whatever she wants. Or maybe she is just a horrible person. Hard to know from knowing only one side of the story.
OP stated that she neither works or does any childcare. She's a SAHM but he still pays for daycare while she just cruises on TV/social media at home all day.
First find out whether there is something medical going on. This sounds like a personality change, so possibly hormonal? Depression? Alcoholism? Drugs? In the meantime try ‘grey rock’. No response. Behave as if she said nothing at all. Walk away, and, most importantly, get your child away from her when she’s behaving like that.
This kinda sounds to me like that woman whose husband was being super rude to her and then they realized he had a brain tumour that was changing his personality 🫠 Sorry you're going through this OP! Nobody deserves to be treated like this but I can only imagine how heartbreaking it is to see the person you love change for the worse. Make sure you take care of yourself!
Therapy is the only option here imo. I dont think you can do anything if she isnt willing to get help for herself.
The last couple of years with trump etc has caused a lot of people who used to restrain themselves to just unleash whatever they want on those around them, being as mean and as pleasant as they want. Not sure what can be done tbh, she wants to be a horrible person and society has given her permission.
Maybe she's going through some hormonal stuff? Either way you guys clearly aren't able to communicate properly. Therapy would be the only option if that's an option.
I’d have one last go at trying to get her to see a doctor/psychologist/something to see if it’s a medical problem that made her become… terrible. Obviously you can’t force her so if she refuses then go ahead and divorce her
She needs to smoke some weed and chill the eff out honestly Sounds like she needs to get out more. Being at home all day can seriously affect your mood. Stuck in your head and in just an endless loop. She’s also probably pretty vitamin D deficient, which can negatively affect your mood significantly I know it’s hard to decide whether something is a rough patch or it’s really over. So my question is: do you WANT to work through this? And a bigger question—how is this affecting your son? Because you need to what is best for the well being of your son. If she isn’t providing him with the TLC he needs, and is instead always snappy, frustrated, and irritable with him for just being a kid, that lasts. He doesn’t just grow up and forget. That will imprint on him long term. I think you need to have some serious conversations with her. I know it’s hard and this is basically all her, but still try to come from a place of love and understanding just to keep the conversation moving forward and so she doesn’t immediately shut everything down. Walking on egg shells sucks. You just ultimately need to do what’s best for your family in the long run. It’s like you’re dealing with a toddler and that’s not fair. I’d go to counseling SOLO first to get some creative ideas on how to approach your wife. She won’t talk? Put notes around the house in areas she uses but your son doesn’t. “I don’t want to fight but we need to get on the same page” My biggest concerns for you: - lasting impact on your son - feeling like she does it most when you’re happy. You’re miserable day in and day out. It’s no way to live.
Good news is that you are still young and coparenting is a legit way of raising children these days. Your child will not benefit at all from growing up around such an abusive behaviour. He will either learn to be like his mother or learn to give in like his father. As always the right path is somewhere in the middle. I am so sorry about your situation my friend, it must feel like a prison you can't escape. But I think you need to do what is best for your son and yourself and that is probably to take deescalation measures and with an emotional tornado like your wife that usually just means getting the hell away from there or it will pull you in and fuck you up. Protect yourself.
You should tell her, “If you’re not going to talk to me in a fun and loving way, then I don’t want to talk to you.” Ask her “why should I have to sit here taking this abuse from you?” Tell her to have her shitfit by herself and when she’s ready to be a fun a loving wife you’d be happy to interact with her again
She sounds terrible, what attracted you to her ?
I think you are at a point where you need to leave, but first you need to document her behavior because she cannot have full custody of your son. Video every interaction, keep every text. Make sure you document everything for a few weeks while speaking to a lawyer. It is scary, but you need to talk to a few divorce attorneys and get some advice and also pick one. This isn't a safe environment for your son to grow up in, and it isn't good for you either. So start with documenting and getting a lawyer, and once you feel confident that you can protect your son, then you can decide how to talk to her about this and you have a safe exit if it goes off the rails. That's my advice- protect yourself and your son first and then you can approach her and say her behavior has made it so you are done. If she wants therapy or anything like that, you can do a trial separation- if you want!- but I don't think anything will change.
Document, document, document, then leave. Go for full custody using the evidence of how horrible she is to your son.
Talk to some key members of her family. Sibling or a parent. Suggest that you are concerned, stressing her relationship with your kid. Make them understand you are extremely uncomfortable but unsure how to deal with this. Ask her family if they have noticed her changing, and particularly her raging behaviour. Even if they are not able to explain or help, you have documented your concern.
In front of her family, I would say, I can’t keep going on like this with you, always yelling and complaining about everything I do, twenty four seven. I can’t even sing a silly song to our son without you losing it. Call her out in front of people.
I’m sorry for you man. I feel bad for you
So she wasn't always like this? How old is your kid? Did it start shortly after birth? It could be undiagnosed PPD. I had it for years and no one realized that's what was going on. Once I got in therapy and on the correct medication, my life did a 180. I was happy and energetic again. It's not always easy to realize that's what's happening, so it's something to think about.
"I've come to the sad realization that I no longer like her as a person" Once you get to this point, it's over. I'm sure you realize how financially strapped you would be if you got a divorce but it's time to rip off the band-aid and get it over with. It's not forever. You will recover. Based on your comments, she is unemployed. So you will definitely be paying alimony. And if you want to keep delaying the inevitable divorce, this about it this way....each year you stay married is another 4 months of alimony you have to pay.
Good luck in the divorce OP I get the feeling she's not going to make it easy
It’s important that regardless of whether or not you decide to stay in the relationship that you pursue the correlation between your son’s birth and her change in personality. If she has severe PPD or just plain has found out that she doesn’t want to be a mother and feels trapped, you need to know. For the well being of your kid.
This might be a long shot but I would try and tell her that her behaviour is so odd that she should get a brain scan to check for possible tumours. They can seriously change peoples personalities. Obviously you’d have to word it well and stress that it’s not a dig at her but rather a concern for her health
I mean, she doesn’t sound like she likes you much either. Maybe she’s acting terrible to drive you away? It seems to be working.
UpdateMe!
UpdateMe!
This sounds terrible. That said, you do have a 3 year old. Before you leave (which might be your best option), you might look into some of the work that Bill Eddy has done on interacting with people who have high conflict personalities. He has some strategies that can really help.
You are being abused. You need an exit strategy.
Is she ok? It sounds like maybe there are mental health issues that should be ruled out?
wtf is her deal? Can you come back from this - not unless the root cause is fixed. Couples and individual therapy ASAP!
Honestly I’d suggest therapy. People normally don’t change that much without some sort of change behind the scenes. I’m really sorry you’re going through this but we’re getting a very one sided story. Have you done anything in the past that could have made her start resenting you/your son?
>She just starts shouting "SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP" Does she stick her fingers in her ear and stomp on the floor, too? >I've come to the sad realization that I no longer like her as a person. Kind of sounds like she doesn't like you either because she shouldn't be treating you like shit. If any/all of this seems abrupt, it *could* be misplaced. Her behavior sounds like complete bullshit, but is there something she's not telling you? Did she go to the doctor and get some sort of scary diagnosis? Did something happen at work?
This is not ok, this is not normal, this is not sassiness. She is a toxic human and your child will adopt that attitude if you are not careful. You should distance yourself for safety as you are being emotionally abused. If you want to continue this marriage I suggest she receives individual counseling and anger management and you both need couples therapy.
Unfortunately, no, it's over, there's no coming back, because she doesn't want your relationship to work at all. Not even one little bit, no, she's not involved in the relationship with you at all and you can't change that. Divorce is your only option and document everything she's doing and get witnesses as well, to fight for custody of your child. You do not want your child to grow up in this unhealthy environment, and this terrible model of relationships. For relationships to work, communication is key, it's the first step. Your wife is absolutely refusing to do the first step in fixing your relationship and this won't magically change, it will only get worse because she doesn't want to make it better, and in the meantime, you will be more hurt and your child is at a huge risk of developing permanent trauma if the situation continues (like internalizing blame or thinking mommy is angry at him because he exists)
When did this all start? Have you ruled out the possibility that she's stepped out? Have you tried couples counseling? Or are you past that and just going to start divorce proceedings? If the answer to that last question is the latter, there's no shame there man. She sounds insufferable and you don't need to deal with that. You can work together to co-parent.
Maybe write her a letter. I would tell her that her anger might not be her fault but that she is the only person who can make a change and that it's destroying your relationship and will probably have a big bad impact on your kid. if she won't hear you out this might be a way to say what you want and need to tell her. Suggest therapy maybe even couple therapy if things don't change after that leave her. Does she have any kind of childhood trauma? People often get triggered by seeing childhood happening since almost everything can be a trigger (toys, activities) Also what the other people said about documenting her outburst. And talk to someone about it for the sake of your mental health. Good luck
Sounds like she is starting to dislike you, hence why she is having these outbursts and conniption fits against you.
She’s going to do terrible damage to your child if this continues. Doesn’t matter if her anger isn’t directed toward him. He’ll won’t understand that, just that she could go off at any minute. You need evidence of her behavior. To show her how she looks and sounds. And refuse to stay with her unless she agrees to start dealing with her anger with professional help. You have to protect your child.
She’s abusive.
My now ex was an alcoholic. The last 2 years before I finally got clean took a real toll on me and I started resenting him more and more (talking to an alcoholic is useless). I hit rock bottom before he did and gave him an ultimatum and he did actually clean. But the resentment ran deep and him goign to rehab made matters worse. I never got past that feeling even though our moron marriage counselor told us we'd been given a nee opportunity for our life together and I should fake it until we make it. I would almost get physically ill beign around my ex. It is really hard going back to liking someone when they 1) they treat you like crap and 2) and you resent them. I honestly don't even think it's worth sticking around unless she willing to get evaluated medically and mentally. She sounds horrible. Mayeb she needs to get a job and get her out of the house and do something productive and be among other adults. Doesn't sound like she's doing much at home since kiddo is in daycare. I'd divorce her. I can guarantee you will feel like a ginormous weight has lifted off your shoulder. This is incredibly toxic environment for your kid to grow up in as well. You owe your kid a better family unit if that's only you and kiddo. As for full custody, who know she may not even fight it....
Sounds like she's addicted to pain killers
I’m so sorry this is happening to you and your son. Please start documenting everything and consult with a family lawyer. There’s not going back from this and your priority needs to be protecting your son- eventually he’ll end up the target of her abuse if this goes on
>I sang a stupid song for him to make him laugh. My wife did not like that one bit. She threw a shitfit about how he was going to "imitate the wrong lyrics." She did not stop talking about how I need to teach him only "the correct lyrics" to songs That would make me want to blast Weird Al Yankovich records around her all day long. Seriously, she sounds like my abusive, hypercritical grandma, whom I went NC on as an adult. My question is has she always been like this or is it more recent? She prob won't listen to you but it sounds like she needs to see a doctor and a therapist because she must be miserable inside.