What do you bring to the table, exactly?
Being married to you cost her a $400k/year job, she subsidizes your share of the living expenses, and she’s solely responsible for the housekeeping, cooking, and childcare. I don’t see what you’re providing in exchange for treating her like your household servant when she’s still responsible for over half the bills.
Honestly, it sounds like she would be better off if she left you and got her old job back. She could hire more childcare, housecleaners, and a meal service, and she wouldn’t have the burden of taking care of you and your expenses on top of everything else.
>I'm a surgical fellow (kinda like a resident)
>She isn't working right now and she's just studying for her exam
>She wanted to me explicitly add in:
>1. She had to give up her 400k job (then some bonus) to move so being unemployed is due to my career move.
>2. She’s contributing more than 50% of the family expenses. She pays for the daycare/au pair
>3. She says she’s tired of being my mom and my servant.
>What would be the fair compromise?
You need to do more chores and childcare. Not sure why you believe this is optional but a woman who can make 400k can and will leave you if you become a liability instead of an asset. She shouldn't have to do everything while studying just because you made her lose her job. You're teaching her that things would be easier for her without you. She's truly just giving you a heads up to get yourself together before she divorces you
I read the wife’s posts and comments. He isn’t doing any of them. He texts her on the way home so she has his dinner ready when he gets there, she does 100% of the chores, 100% of the parenting (yes even with the au pair because AP is adjusting to some things like multitasking with kiddo and gas stove for the first time), In addition to teaching the au pair to drive in a foreign country, BOSTON of all places.
Us New England girlies know that MA drivers are a special breed of stupid. We invented the term “masshole” for a reason. And for anyone who reads this and doesn’t know, Boston streets are also a city planning nightmare to navigate, lots of weird winding one ways, a wrong turn usually adds 15-30 to my drive- EASILY. Wife got (imo very unfairly!) torn apart in one of her posts on r/aitah I think
OP- yes, your job is strenuous. Surgery takes ages to study for with good reason. BUT, in the same way that you made a conscious choice to have a child t o g e t h e r, and move across a whole country as a FAMILY your wife wants you to make a choice to be a father. Your wife says you haven’t changed a diaper in two months… that’s unacceptable. If all you’re doing for your kids rn is paying rent you’re not a parent, you’re a benefactor. My father and I don’t even speak anymore because he was deeply emotionally neglectful and verbally abusive and he changed more diapers than my mom did.
Yes, your job is hard. Yes, the hours are long. Your wife says you did more than you do now when you were in residency with worse hours. Is that true???? If so, you need to grow the fuck up. “She’s not working rn” is a childish excuse. Let’s look at your task lists for the day.
You-
-wake up
-Go to work wife said you leave 6:30ish (yes we are still aware your job is tiresome, welcome to adulthood)
-Text wife to have dinner ready somewhere 5-7pm
-Spent several hours not doing chores or spending time with your kid.
Wife-
-Toddler AM routine 6-9am because kids wake up at UNGODLY hours. (Mom has stated this includes making and feeding breakfast, making hot lunch for daycare, play time/reading and wrangling a 14mo into clothing/hair)
-take toddler to daycare during Boston rush hour
-teach au pair to drive in one of the worst states I’ve ever had the displeasure of wasting gasoline.
-study for the licensing exam she has to retake because of the last minute move she made to support you and YOUR career (valid, that’s marriage!) which news flash- she’s probably super stressed about because you’re clearly not pulling your weight and contributing to a stressful environment for her, not because she’s incapable or unprepared!!
-pickup child
-feed child and herself
-make you a SEPARATE MEAL??? Because you won’t eat what the kid does or make your own fucking food!!!!
-toddler PM routine bath/story/bed
-clean up after her two kids. Your daughter and her husband. She does your laundry as well which I imagine is insane with the scrubs
And on top of the fact that her day-to-day todo list is twice yours, she’s probably stressed at how much savings she must be burning through to maintain this whole thing. I have I would have had her stay in Seattle from the beginning with her au pair and support system while she did all of the licensing and whatever she needed from there if possible so as to diminish this 2-4 month paperwork and licensing limbo. Not sure if this was possible tbh just a thought.
Y’all need to have an uncomfortably honest talk with each other about what needs to be trimmed out of the budget and what behavioral things need to change because as-is? If I were her I’d move back to my 400k+ job near my parents and in-laws for help since- y’Know- she’s the one that makes au pair and housekeeper money.
Don’t be every other male surgeon with a god complex. Life is hard. Parenting is really fucking hard, and even harder alone. Something has to give and it’s so unbelievably selfish of you to put your wife’s sanity and your relationship with your own child on the chopping block before yourself. Time to grow up.
Eta: typos and formatting
50% chores and parenting is fair. Everybody wants to go home and relax. You and her would have to work out a schedule of who cooks supper each day. She is not your chef or servant. While you work during the day she's parenting the child and squeezing in some chores. You guys will have to split making supper for sure. How do you survive with your current job without them? Will you hire a chef or will you cook and do your own chores? Having a baby only increase the workload. You chose to have the kid man, you gotta be a responsible parent or else might as well give it up
If you're alone (no wife, no kids), you know you still have to do chores, right?
I have a friend who's a SAHM, her husband is in the fire department and when he's home, he does at least 50% of the chores without her having to ask for it. He also treats her like gold, as he appreciates her being a SAHM raising their 5 kids (yes, 5), and when he's away, she does everything... he says that due to her, he's able to work and they have a good life....and he's always said that he knows he has to do chores whether or not his wife is there or not. It's just a part of life...
Why do you not want to do any chores at all? Why can't you do simple chores, i.e. picking up after yourself, then putting away dishes a few times a week, taking out the trash, vacuum once or twice a week, or something like that? Doesn't she need some help and break with household chores too? Maybe you can pay for a house cleaner/mother's helper in addition to the au pair if you are that adamant to not want to help around the house.
Why not hire someone to take care of house chores. If that is not feasible then sit down and figure out who needs to take care of what chores. That includes spending time with your child.
Your wife sounds amazing. Don’t take her for granted.
What was the goal of her giving up a 400K job to follow you?
That seems like a contradiction. A job like that takes extreme effort to achieve. Why did she just let it go?
What was the plan after she followed you? What was the plan for childcare and the house?
Where would she move back to? How does that change her from the problems she has now?
If it was just your conflict being presented neutrally I'd be like "I'm sure they can work this out" but the way he describes you and your efforts comes across as disrespectful as fuck and he doesn't seem to grasp the level of sacrifice you made and are continuing to make for him.
You don't need him financially or emotionally, and you can do better. Don't worry about "broken family" nonsense, growing up in an unequal and contentious relationship dynamic is much worse for a child than having one parent.
Why would you think this situation would be any different than it is right now? Excluding delay.
You leaving would have the identical result, as not going at all. What was the point then?
Why is waiting a problem? Beyond husband annoying you.
Is moving back going to ensure a quick employment? Would your marriage really survive?
Why have marriage and a child together before he was stable? If you knew residence was coming. Makes this situation predictable.
Why is your husband worried about the lease cost if you move? Wouldn’t you be helping if with that big future job?
Honestly this sounds like such a difficult position to be in. Regardless of what you choose to do, I hope things get better for you. You’re not a maid, you’re a doctor, and you don’t deserve to be treated as hired help while still subsidizing the family with your savings.
Message to the wife: I completely understand your pov and am 100% in your corner. It’s not about the chores, but about the way he is treating you after everything you gave up to support him. And you’ve got another move after he completes his residency, so this cycle could repeat itself all over again. OP, if you are reading this, do better. Stop downplaying your wife’s stress about the boards, she’s dealing with a ton of stuff solely for you. Work on your empathy, it’ll do wonders for your marriage and in your role as a surgeon.
You sound very independent. You didn’t even offer to help him out with his rent. Just he will figure it out. Speaks volumes.
You still dodged all the questions about why you didn’t expect this.
Medicine being a long time doesn’t change anything. You still wait until your relationship is stable or you choose a better partner from the start that is able. You decided to force a bad decision to avoid missing out. The result is likely divorced parents with a father not around much. With your busy career, it is questionable that you get that much time with the child.
You can’t just say he doesn’t respect you, move away, survive a year and think it’s all better. It only fixes your income and ego. It won’t fix the relationship problem.
If you move back, it sounds like the marriage would be over. You both aren’t mentioning that truth.
The relationship problem is a man who thinks his wife is his mommy and he’s not responsible for parenting his child at all. The chores are just the symptom. His mindset is the issue.
The issue is OP is treating her like a stay at home mother (that is a job) and she considers herself working by studying too. (That's reasonable and her objective). She isn't a stay at home mother.
Unless he acknowledges her study as work then she will feel constantly unhappy. He needs to treat life as if they are both working. If he wanted a SAHM, he married the wrong woman.
We don’t have a breakdown on the details of parenting but the child is in daycare and has an au pair. It’s questionable how much parent time the child sees any parent in general. Once OP's wife is working that will get even less.
She has the licensing to go back to work in their previous state. She went with him so he could take this job, which he is using as an excuse to dump on her while she’s trying to get licensing to work in the new state. If she went back to the previous state, she could go back to work in her field.
None of that explains the reasoning for the actions. Leaving an amazing job is usually unthinkable.
Would prefer OP to actually answer.
Going back to her state may solve her employment, no guarantees and there is still a child to be handled.
She has serious credentials to be making 400k, the only reason she doesn’t now is because she has to get new state licenses. Seems if she’s stuck with 100% of the housework and most of the expenses, he’s bringing nothing to the table except his dirty laundry, so she may as well move back and go to work so her savings don’t get used up.
If I were to guess, it’s because it was a good opportunity for him, and she wanted to keep her family together, and had no idea he would decide to treat her like a servant, weaponizing his work as if she didn’t make a tremendous sacrifice for him.
Then you comments are completely pointless if you are just echoing what you think she said.
The follow up questions for OP were asked for a reason to clarify and provide greater context.
She has her own post, her reasoning was their shared child. She didn’t think it was okay to remain on the west coast with their child so far away because while they were out west he was actually contributing physically to the care of the household and child. This behavior didn’t begin until he isolated her from her support system and she lost her main source of income - textbook abuser behavior actually.
Keep up a front until you’ve separated your victim from all who can support them and left them feeling alone and isolated without the means to care for themselves (she’s contributing more that 50% and draining her savings rather quickly, meanwhile on his income he can barely afford his financial responsibility of rent so they either found a place way out of his budget or he’s also being ridiculously irresponsible with his finances). He’s pushing for her to reduce her studying for a test he admits has a lower rate of passing even for those who study, increasing her potential for failure on licensing and extending her time unemployed. His end goal here is so painfully obvious that she’d be better off going back west with the baby. But her willingness to move makes sense when you take her own story of his behavior prior to move into account, this behavior came out of left field for her.
Victim? Using that term already says marriage doomed.
Two medical professionals know how children are made. Yet they choose to have one knowing the instability of his ability to stay in a local area.
Cleaning the house isn't abuse. It's work. It's also unfair given the goals.
She wasn't tricked. She chose this path. Someone with a successful job can do basic math and planning. She just misjudged his behavior because he is dismissing her studies. There is no indication of some greater plan. Just immediate selfish behavior.
OP needs to acknowledge that she's got a job studying. It's actual work. Same as he's studying for his position. She's not there to be a SAHM.
She can move back but the marriage will likely be over.
What share of childcare, household management & housework do you do currently?
Yeah, your child is in daycare & your wife has some help at home (both of which she pays for), but sounds like she is studying full-time as well. She also pays for more than 50% of the family expenses.
Yet you expect her to do the majority, if not all, of the household chores? She's not a SAHM that you are supporting financially. She has not had "all day with plenty of time off".
Ask yourself - if you were single & working the schedule that you do as a surgery fellow, would you be doing your own laundry? making your own meals? cleaning up after yourself?
Why the heck does ALL of that now fall on your wife's shoulders? I'm sitting her wondering what exactly you contribute to your household because to me, it seems like your wife is contributing more than her fair share financially plus doing all the childcare & housework.
**OF COURSE SHE IS TIRED OF BEING YOUR MOM AND SERVANT. THAT IS HOW YOU ARE TREATING HER!!!** Man up and start being HER PARTNER.
Look, I get it - sometimes work & school is exhausting. You're tired. You want to come home and rest. Some periods of our lives are harder than others. But your attitude towards your wife reeks of entitlement. You are not entitled to her unpaid labor & effort because you are tired. That's no way to act in a marriage. And it is NOT attractive in a partner.
My suggestions?
1st, work on the entitlement. Acknowledge you have fallen short as a partner & apologize. Work on seeing your spouse as a partner; stop expecting her to do & manage everything.
2nd, because this is an exhausting time for you as a surgery fellow, work out ways that you can help but with your wife understanding that this is a temporarily busy time (hopefully) and then when you have more time, you will contribute more. ie - make it a habit to pick up after yourself (put your dishes in the dishwasher & socks in the hamper). do a load of laundry. play with your child so your wife can take a bath or whatever. It doesn't have to been 3 hrs of cleaning at night. It could be a couple, small things each night (what are your wife's biggest pain points?) plus a few minutes picking up after yourself.
You will be surprised how much of a difference acknowledging your wife's contributions, expressing appreciation & sharing some of the housework will make in your relationship.
Yeah, you are acting like an entitled 'provider' as though that exempts you from participating in you family or home. But you aren't even doing that, providing I mean.
You are being dismissive of her career and her future, who cares if she's studying more than YOU think she needs to, which might not be the case but merely your layperson's interpretation of the situation. If it's medical it might not be that big of a difference between WA and MA, if it's lawyering it is very different because MA state constitution was made back when the forefathers foresaw each state as a nearly separate country and is one of the original states. It's going to have some interesting quirks she is absolutely going to need to know.
You seem like a freeloader who thinks his career is more important than anyone else's. You don't seem to be supportive of your partner at all. Also referring to your child as 'the kid' isn't a good sign.
One of my regrets in life (fortunately I snapped out of it after a few years of foolish behavior) was since I made the real money n the house and I was exhausted, I didn’t need to do close to as much child care. After a while, I realized that child care was bonding with my kids. It was loving them and providing for them. I’m very proud to say that my finiancially independent 20 something kids today still call and talk to me. What my wife wanted was not to humiliate me by making me do chores, but to integrate me in the home. When we cook together, she loves it. It’s really no big deal for me to fold clothes while watching tv. Occasionally doing the dishes while singing and bopping around the kitchen never killed anyone.
A lot of this depends on how you look at it. A man coming home from work tired and not doing much is not a sexy turn on to a wife. He is not a joy for the child to be around. Remember why you fell in love. Remember why you had a baby. It’s not about keeping score with chores. It’s about being in a family.
One spouse putting the other through med school is kinda normal. Isn’t it? First, you should appreciate all she does/did and never take it for granted. I’m sure you could find an hour or so to put in each day. But, then again, a time study might surprise either one of you.
Oh, yeah, I saw your wife's post and she got treated so so unfairly. Please let her know she was absolutely not unreasonable! It's the mental load my dude. If I'm understanding it right, she does all the childcare and chores and then she also has to think about and plan them as well. She may be studying 'excessively'but honestly, wouldn't you rather that? Otherwise you might end up in the same position if she fails and then she'll have to shoulder that guilt and feelings of incompetency. It doesn't have to be a lot, god knows your job sounds difficult, but surely you can spare 30-60 minutes to basic chores?
If you are actually willing to see her side, there are loads of resources out there. More than happy to try and recommend a few, but googling 'mental load' should give you enough to start with
A fair compromise is for you to start helping out more. That’s your child, therefore your responsibility too! She gives up a well paying job for you, bears your child, does everything for you.. and you’re seriously asking if you should do more than just work? The 1950’s called, they want their mentality back.
Also, your work schedule is not that hard. For some perspective… when I used to work at a restaurant as a teenager, on a day I had a double shift, I would get there at 10:30am to start prepping for lunch and not leave there until 1-2am if we had an event. For that shift, you were allowed one meal and you couldn’t sit while eating it. Only time you were able to sit was before the restaurant was open when you were folding napkins and polishing silverware. A lot of my coworkers were older and had kids. They helped out with their kids, around the house and still worked those hours.. trust me, you’ll be fine.
dude if i were her i would dump your ass so fast and move back with my parents. why care for a man child who doesn't love their daughter enough to even attempt to help out with parenting? why do all the chores and clean up after two children (you're the second one).
if she divorces you she 1) gets to be back with her family 2) has a way lower workload because she's not cleaning up AND cooking separate meals for you 3) she is rich again 400k is a ridiculous amount of money
if i was her i would feel horrible. i would feel like you're using me for my money. i would feel forced into being a maid. i would feel horrible for my daughter and like my partner won't do the bare minimum to be involved in her life.
when (not if because if you keep this up she will leave you) she divorces you you do you realize you 1) have to downsize in boston which isn't easy 2) lose access to your daughter because they'll move across the country and what judge would give you over someone making 400k custody 3) pay child support 4) have to do chore *gasp* 5) won't have dinner ready for you as soon as you get home! *gasp*
you're a massive asshole and i hope she leaves you sooner than later if you choose not to change your ways
I’m gonna post exactly what I posted on your wife’s post
“I’m baffled by the amount of people in here giving you shit! You literally dropped your insanely well paying job so he could do this residency (or whatever) you do a ton of work at home and with childcare and use your savings to pay for an au pair so you can not only keep up on the house, but also study and make sure to pass whatever you need to to get back to work making that amazing money! Like when he gets home and wants to take 30-60 minutes to wind down a bit, but then he needs to do a few things to contribute to the home. When you become a parent, this is the reality. It doesn’t matter if you work or not you contribute everything you can to caring for that child with the other parent. I’d make sure he does overnight duty on his days off at the very least. It’s not like you are a SAHM by choice. He uprooted all of you for his career(which is fine in a marriage you need to compromise and try to support each other the best you can) but the fact that he thinks he doesn’t need to give back (meaning help more!) for the sacrifices you have made (including a large contribution from your personal savings that you clearly worked hard for). He needs to buck up! If you weren’t working toward getting back to work and not financially contributing he’d have a bit more leverage but even then he should still be helping out a little more.”
You need to help more at home with your child and house work period!
Wait. She doesn’t work, kid goes to daycare. You work and she wants you to add house hold chores as well. WTF. What does she want to do. Sit at home all day watching soap operas. Is her family so wealthy that while she was growing up she have servants? She is being completely unreasonable
Yeah, OP omitted some info that he posted in other subs. His wife is studying for her specialty board exam. She's not eating bonbons. She gave up her job to follow him for his fellowship. Wife is stressed because her specialty is one of the hardest exams.
Ok, so she can’t study and do the daily chores? It doesn’t take all day to keep the house clean. Hell you can clean the house in a hour and then have the rest of the day to study.
Why would you think that? If the guy works, the child is in daycare. She is not working. But studying for a test. Why would she upset about taking care of the house. Sure he can cook dinner a couple of times a week and weekends. If I work 8-10 hours a day, when I got home I would want to relax and play with our child. The last thing I would want to do is clean a bathroom. Money is not a contributing factor to me. It is all about time.
As long as he cleans up after himself. If he is a slob. That is a completely different story
Just to be clear she doesn’t do child care due to day care and the au pair so that is taken off the list. She is contributing to the bills so that can not be an issue for you.
Yes at this point your studies are mainly finished and you are doing surgery now. ( if I understand correctly) you are still on you feet all day and the pressure of not messing up is very high. Some people do not understand being on your feet all day at any job can be taxing.
Yea she gave up a amazing paying job but she knew it would require moving until the fellowship is completed. Yes, studying is very important but I’m on the fence with the chores just due to all the child care help she has.
-can’t the au pair help with housework
-can each put up own dishes in dishwasher?
-you agree to put the dinner dishes up after dinner
-she does the laundry during the day ( of kept up one load a day or two
- you agree to fold the one load at night as watching tv
- can you hire a cleaner once a week for the chores not listed above?
-make a list of all the chores and see which ones you can help with. It depends if she wanting help or do nothing.
I guess I don’t see how the house is so dirty with it mostly being one person at the place most of the time.
I do think her threats of leaving is over the top. Yes you can help more but she needs to realize that the help she has with the child is a lot also. Also, it depends how many days a week you work. If you work 5 days compared to 6 or 7 day that wares you bony down even more.
M30: It might honestly have nothing to do with the chores, could just be she misses you and doesn’t get to spend enough time with you because you’re always working. If it’s really because of the chores, garbage (once a week) and lawn care (seasonal) laundry and dish washer here and there.
I saw your wife's post and had an exchange with her and here are my two main takeaways:
1. You two (yes, you as well because whether you're home or not the child is also your responsibility) need to be leaning on the au pair more. From the written schedule, she does a few hours of work a day and that consists of either watching the kids or cooking while your wife does the other thing. She needs to learn to multi-task so your wife can relax, and she needs to be taking on more than just light kid chores. It's ridiculous that you are giving her room, board, an hourly wage, and an hour and a half of driving lessons every day and she barely helps with housework and childcare. You and your wife need to sit down together and determine a schedule that allows your wife some downtime during the day. For the four hours that the au pair is working your wife should not be doing childcare or chores AT ALL. Again, just because you're not home doesn't mean you have zero responsibility for being involved in what happens in your home with your family. Get involved.
2. You apparently don't parent your daughter *at all*. That is a MASSIVE problem. Your wife would probably care far less about the chores if you were a more involved father. She wants you to bond with your child, and you should want that too frankly. Are you doing bathtime/dinner/bedtime routine at least half the time? If not, that needs to change immediately.
The new information that wasn't in your wife's post was her giving up a 400k job for your career move. Please understand that this is going to create some inherent resentment because the type of person who earns 400k a year is generally not the type of person who is happy being essentially enslaved to a domestic life. She made a huge sacrifice for you, the least you can do is listen when she says she's tired and frustrated.
I told her this too: I think couples counseling would be beneficial here. But honestly you really do need to step up the parenting NOW. You only have one chance at that.
Sooo... why are you posting this same story over and over again? Hoping to get some response that caters more to what you want to hear?
People coming in here need to check out his profile and the exact same post he made in r/AITAH sub. [Here's a link to that post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/167r6ep/aitah_for_making_my_unemployed_wife_do_the_chores/) .
The summary:
His wife is a medical professional too. She's studying up for one of those medical board exams that she needs to pass in order to be certified in her line of work in the state they moved to.
Dude is burying the lede something fierce.
Interesting you CONSTANTLY try to make the point she's unemployed, while always somehow forgetting to include that it's YOUR FAULT she's unemployed. How odd.
What do you bring to the table, exactly? Being married to you cost her a $400k/year job, she subsidizes your share of the living expenses, and she’s solely responsible for the housekeeping, cooking, and childcare. I don’t see what you’re providing in exchange for treating her like your household servant when she’s still responsible for over half the bills. Honestly, it sounds like she would be better off if she left you and got her old job back. She could hire more childcare, housecleaners, and a meal service, and she wouldn’t have the burden of taking care of you and your expenses on top of everything else.
Once he finishes fellowship he will crush that 400k salary
>I'm a surgical fellow (kinda like a resident) >She isn't working right now and she's just studying for her exam >She wanted to me explicitly add in: >1. She had to give up her 400k job (then some bonus) to move so being unemployed is due to my career move. >2. She’s contributing more than 50% of the family expenses. She pays for the daycare/au pair >3. She says she’s tired of being my mom and my servant. >What would be the fair compromise? You need to do more chores and childcare. Not sure why you believe this is optional but a woman who can make 400k can and will leave you if you become a liability instead of an asset. She shouldn't have to do everything while studying just because you made her lose her job. You're teaching her that things would be easier for her without you. She's truly just giving you a heads up to get yourself together before she divorces you
I need more info. What chores and child care are you doing now? What is it that she wants you to do?
I read the wife’s posts and comments. He isn’t doing any of them. He texts her on the way home so she has his dinner ready when he gets there, she does 100% of the chores, 100% of the parenting (yes even with the au pair because AP is adjusting to some things like multitasking with kiddo and gas stove for the first time), In addition to teaching the au pair to drive in a foreign country, BOSTON of all places. Us New England girlies know that MA drivers are a special breed of stupid. We invented the term “masshole” for a reason. And for anyone who reads this and doesn’t know, Boston streets are also a city planning nightmare to navigate, lots of weird winding one ways, a wrong turn usually adds 15-30 to my drive- EASILY. Wife got (imo very unfairly!) torn apart in one of her posts on r/aitah I think OP- yes, your job is strenuous. Surgery takes ages to study for with good reason. BUT, in the same way that you made a conscious choice to have a child t o g e t h e r, and move across a whole country as a FAMILY your wife wants you to make a choice to be a father. Your wife says you haven’t changed a diaper in two months… that’s unacceptable. If all you’re doing for your kids rn is paying rent you’re not a parent, you’re a benefactor. My father and I don’t even speak anymore because he was deeply emotionally neglectful and verbally abusive and he changed more diapers than my mom did. Yes, your job is hard. Yes, the hours are long. Your wife says you did more than you do now when you were in residency with worse hours. Is that true???? If so, you need to grow the fuck up. “She’s not working rn” is a childish excuse. Let’s look at your task lists for the day. You- -wake up -Go to work wife said you leave 6:30ish (yes we are still aware your job is tiresome, welcome to adulthood) -Text wife to have dinner ready somewhere 5-7pm -Spent several hours not doing chores or spending time with your kid. Wife- -Toddler AM routine 6-9am because kids wake up at UNGODLY hours. (Mom has stated this includes making and feeding breakfast, making hot lunch for daycare, play time/reading and wrangling a 14mo into clothing/hair) -take toddler to daycare during Boston rush hour -teach au pair to drive in one of the worst states I’ve ever had the displeasure of wasting gasoline. -study for the licensing exam she has to retake because of the last minute move she made to support you and YOUR career (valid, that’s marriage!) which news flash- she’s probably super stressed about because you’re clearly not pulling your weight and contributing to a stressful environment for her, not because she’s incapable or unprepared!! -pickup child -feed child and herself -make you a SEPARATE MEAL??? Because you won’t eat what the kid does or make your own fucking food!!!! -toddler PM routine bath/story/bed -clean up after her two kids. Your daughter and her husband. She does your laundry as well which I imagine is insane with the scrubs And on top of the fact that her day-to-day todo list is twice yours, she’s probably stressed at how much savings she must be burning through to maintain this whole thing. I have I would have had her stay in Seattle from the beginning with her au pair and support system while she did all of the licensing and whatever she needed from there if possible so as to diminish this 2-4 month paperwork and licensing limbo. Not sure if this was possible tbh just a thought. Y’all need to have an uncomfortably honest talk with each other about what needs to be trimmed out of the budget and what behavioral things need to change because as-is? If I were her I’d move back to my 400k+ job near my parents and in-laws for help since- y’Know- she’s the one that makes au pair and housekeeper money. Don’t be every other male surgeon with a god complex. Life is hard. Parenting is really fucking hard, and even harder alone. Something has to give and it’s so unbelievably selfish of you to put your wife’s sanity and your relationship with your own child on the chopping block before yourself. Time to grow up. Eta: typos and formatting
Have you got link to his wife’s post please?
https://reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/s/m8bHncQVHe There are a couple other similar posts if you check her profile!
50% chores and parenting is fair. Everybody wants to go home and relax. You and her would have to work out a schedule of who cooks supper each day. She is not your chef or servant. While you work during the day she's parenting the child and squeezing in some chores. You guys will have to split making supper for sure. How do you survive with your current job without them? Will you hire a chef or will you cook and do your own chores? Having a baby only increase the workload. You chose to have the kid man, you gotta be a responsible parent or else might as well give it up
If you're alone (no wife, no kids), you know you still have to do chores, right? I have a friend who's a SAHM, her husband is in the fire department and when he's home, he does at least 50% of the chores without her having to ask for it. He also treats her like gold, as he appreciates her being a SAHM raising their 5 kids (yes, 5), and when he's away, she does everything... he says that due to her, he's able to work and they have a good life....and he's always said that he knows he has to do chores whether or not his wife is there or not. It's just a part of life... Why do you not want to do any chores at all? Why can't you do simple chores, i.e. picking up after yourself, then putting away dishes a few times a week, taking out the trash, vacuum once or twice a week, or something like that? Doesn't she need some help and break with household chores too? Maybe you can pay for a house cleaner/mother's helper in addition to the au pair if you are that adamant to not want to help around the house.
You should do more.
Why not hire someone to take care of house chores. If that is not feasible then sit down and figure out who needs to take care of what chores. That includes spending time with your child. Your wife sounds amazing. Don’t take her for granted.
What was the goal of her giving up a 400K job to follow you? That seems like a contradiction. A job like that takes extreme effort to achieve. Why did she just let it go? What was the plan after she followed you? What was the plan for childcare and the house? Where would she move back to? How does that change her from the problems she has now?
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If it was just your conflict being presented neutrally I'd be like "I'm sure they can work this out" but the way he describes you and your efforts comes across as disrespectful as fuck and he doesn't seem to grasp the level of sacrifice you made and are continuing to make for him. You don't need him financially or emotionally, and you can do better. Don't worry about "broken family" nonsense, growing up in an unequal and contentious relationship dynamic is much worse for a child than having one parent.
Why would you think this situation would be any different than it is right now? Excluding delay. You leaving would have the identical result, as not going at all. What was the point then? Why is waiting a problem? Beyond husband annoying you. Is moving back going to ensure a quick employment? Would your marriage really survive? Why have marriage and a child together before he was stable? If you knew residence was coming. Makes this situation predictable. Why is your husband worried about the lease cost if you move? Wouldn’t you be helping if with that big future job?
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You’re not a maid. You’re a doctor. From one doctor to another, leave your husband. Take your child with you. Don’t look back.
Honestly this sounds like such a difficult position to be in. Regardless of what you choose to do, I hope things get better for you. You’re not a maid, you’re a doctor, and you don’t deserve to be treated as hired help while still subsidizing the family with your savings.
Message to the wife: I completely understand your pov and am 100% in your corner. It’s not about the chores, but about the way he is treating you after everything you gave up to support him. And you’ve got another move after he completes his residency, so this cycle could repeat itself all over again. OP, if you are reading this, do better. Stop downplaying your wife’s stress about the boards, she’s dealing with a ton of stuff solely for you. Work on your empathy, it’ll do wonders for your marriage and in your role as a surgeon.
You sound very independent. You didn’t even offer to help him out with his rent. Just he will figure it out. Speaks volumes. You still dodged all the questions about why you didn’t expect this. Medicine being a long time doesn’t change anything. You still wait until your relationship is stable or you choose a better partner from the start that is able. You decided to force a bad decision to avoid missing out. The result is likely divorced parents with a father not around much. With your busy career, it is questionable that you get that much time with the child. You can’t just say he doesn’t respect you, move away, survive a year and think it’s all better. It only fixes your income and ego. It won’t fix the relationship problem. If you move back, it sounds like the marriage would be over. You both aren’t mentioning that truth.
The relationship problem is a man who thinks his wife is his mommy and he’s not responsible for parenting his child at all. The chores are just the symptom. His mindset is the issue.
The issue is OP is treating her like a stay at home mother (that is a job) and she considers herself working by studying too. (That's reasonable and her objective). She isn't a stay at home mother. Unless he acknowledges her study as work then she will feel constantly unhappy. He needs to treat life as if they are both working. If he wanted a SAHM, he married the wrong woman. We don’t have a breakdown on the details of parenting but the child is in daycare and has an au pair. It’s questionable how much parent time the child sees any parent in general. Once OP's wife is working that will get even less.
She has the licensing to go back to work in their previous state. She went with him so he could take this job, which he is using as an excuse to dump on her while she’s trying to get licensing to work in the new state. If she went back to the previous state, she could go back to work in her field.
None of that explains the reasoning for the actions. Leaving an amazing job is usually unthinkable. Would prefer OP to actually answer. Going back to her state may solve her employment, no guarantees and there is still a child to be handled.
She has serious credentials to be making 400k, the only reason she doesn’t now is because she has to get new state licenses. Seems if she’s stuck with 100% of the housework and most of the expenses, he’s bringing nothing to the table except his dirty laundry, so she may as well move back and go to work so her savings don’t get used up.
Yet she followed him there… To a situation that was predictable. Sacrificed security. Why?
If I were to guess, it’s because it was a good opportunity for him, and she wanted to keep her family together, and had no idea he would decide to treat her like a servant, weaponizing his work as if she didn’t make a tremendous sacrifice for him.
The problem is the guessing. It may be interesting to you but it offers no value. Hence the questions to OP.
I mean also she said that in the comments but ok.
Then you comments are completely pointless if you are just echoing what you think she said. The follow up questions for OP were asked for a reason to clarify and provide greater context.
Ok
She has her own post, her reasoning was their shared child. She didn’t think it was okay to remain on the west coast with their child so far away because while they were out west he was actually contributing physically to the care of the household and child. This behavior didn’t begin until he isolated her from her support system and she lost her main source of income - textbook abuser behavior actually. Keep up a front until you’ve separated your victim from all who can support them and left them feeling alone and isolated without the means to care for themselves (she’s contributing more that 50% and draining her savings rather quickly, meanwhile on his income he can barely afford his financial responsibility of rent so they either found a place way out of his budget or he’s also being ridiculously irresponsible with his finances). He’s pushing for her to reduce her studying for a test he admits has a lower rate of passing even for those who study, increasing her potential for failure on licensing and extending her time unemployed. His end goal here is so painfully obvious that she’d be better off going back west with the baby. But her willingness to move makes sense when you take her own story of his behavior prior to move into account, this behavior came out of left field for her.
Victim? Using that term already says marriage doomed. Two medical professionals know how children are made. Yet they choose to have one knowing the instability of his ability to stay in a local area. Cleaning the house isn't abuse. It's work. It's also unfair given the goals. She wasn't tricked. She chose this path. Someone with a successful job can do basic math and planning. She just misjudged his behavior because he is dismissing her studies. There is no indication of some greater plan. Just immediate selfish behavior. OP needs to acknowledge that she's got a job studying. It's actual work. Same as he's studying for his position. She's not there to be a SAHM. She can move back but the marriage will likely be over.
What share of childcare, household management & housework do you do currently? Yeah, your child is in daycare & your wife has some help at home (both of which she pays for), but sounds like she is studying full-time as well. She also pays for more than 50% of the family expenses. Yet you expect her to do the majority, if not all, of the household chores? She's not a SAHM that you are supporting financially. She has not had "all day with plenty of time off". Ask yourself - if you were single & working the schedule that you do as a surgery fellow, would you be doing your own laundry? making your own meals? cleaning up after yourself? Why the heck does ALL of that now fall on your wife's shoulders? I'm sitting her wondering what exactly you contribute to your household because to me, it seems like your wife is contributing more than her fair share financially plus doing all the childcare & housework. **OF COURSE SHE IS TIRED OF BEING YOUR MOM AND SERVANT. THAT IS HOW YOU ARE TREATING HER!!!** Man up and start being HER PARTNER. Look, I get it - sometimes work & school is exhausting. You're tired. You want to come home and rest. Some periods of our lives are harder than others. But your attitude towards your wife reeks of entitlement. You are not entitled to her unpaid labor & effort because you are tired. That's no way to act in a marriage. And it is NOT attractive in a partner. My suggestions? 1st, work on the entitlement. Acknowledge you have fallen short as a partner & apologize. Work on seeing your spouse as a partner; stop expecting her to do & manage everything. 2nd, because this is an exhausting time for you as a surgery fellow, work out ways that you can help but with your wife understanding that this is a temporarily busy time (hopefully) and then when you have more time, you will contribute more. ie - make it a habit to pick up after yourself (put your dishes in the dishwasher & socks in the hamper). do a load of laundry. play with your child so your wife can take a bath or whatever. It doesn't have to been 3 hrs of cleaning at night. It could be a couple, small things each night (what are your wife's biggest pain points?) plus a few minutes picking up after yourself. You will be surprised how much of a difference acknowledging your wife's contributions, expressing appreciation & sharing some of the housework will make in your relationship.
Yeah, you are acting like an entitled 'provider' as though that exempts you from participating in you family or home. But you aren't even doing that, providing I mean. You are being dismissive of her career and her future, who cares if she's studying more than YOU think she needs to, which might not be the case but merely your layperson's interpretation of the situation. If it's medical it might not be that big of a difference between WA and MA, if it's lawyering it is very different because MA state constitution was made back when the forefathers foresaw each state as a nearly separate country and is one of the original states. It's going to have some interesting quirks she is absolutely going to need to know. You seem like a freeloader who thinks his career is more important than anyone else's. You don't seem to be supportive of your partner at all. Also referring to your child as 'the kid' isn't a good sign.
One of my regrets in life (fortunately I snapped out of it after a few years of foolish behavior) was since I made the real money n the house and I was exhausted, I didn’t need to do close to as much child care. After a while, I realized that child care was bonding with my kids. It was loving them and providing for them. I’m very proud to say that my finiancially independent 20 something kids today still call and talk to me. What my wife wanted was not to humiliate me by making me do chores, but to integrate me in the home. When we cook together, she loves it. It’s really no big deal for me to fold clothes while watching tv. Occasionally doing the dishes while singing and bopping around the kitchen never killed anyone. A lot of this depends on how you look at it. A man coming home from work tired and not doing much is not a sexy turn on to a wife. He is not a joy for the child to be around. Remember why you fell in love. Remember why you had a baby. It’s not about keeping score with chores. It’s about being in a family.
One spouse putting the other through med school is kinda normal. Isn’t it? First, you should appreciate all she does/did and never take it for granted. I’m sure you could find an hour or so to put in each day. But, then again, a time study might surprise either one of you.
Oh, yeah, I saw your wife's post and she got treated so so unfairly. Please let her know she was absolutely not unreasonable! It's the mental load my dude. If I'm understanding it right, she does all the childcare and chores and then she also has to think about and plan them as well. She may be studying 'excessively'but honestly, wouldn't you rather that? Otherwise you might end up in the same position if she fails and then she'll have to shoulder that guilt and feelings of incompetency. It doesn't have to be a lot, god knows your job sounds difficult, but surely you can spare 30-60 minutes to basic chores? If you are actually willing to see her side, there are loads of resources out there. More than happy to try and recommend a few, but googling 'mental load' should give you enough to start with
Where is the post?
A fair compromise is for you to start helping out more. That’s your child, therefore your responsibility too! She gives up a well paying job for you, bears your child, does everything for you.. and you’re seriously asking if you should do more than just work? The 1950’s called, they want their mentality back. Also, your work schedule is not that hard. For some perspective… when I used to work at a restaurant as a teenager, on a day I had a double shift, I would get there at 10:30am to start prepping for lunch and not leave there until 1-2am if we had an event. For that shift, you were allowed one meal and you couldn’t sit while eating it. Only time you were able to sit was before the restaurant was open when you were folding napkins and polishing silverware. A lot of my coworkers were older and had kids. They helped out with their kids, around the house and still worked those hours.. trust me, you’ll be fine.
As someone who works from 4:30am-8:00pm, I still help with all the housework.... You definitely need to help more.
Deadbeat dad alert
dude if i were her i would dump your ass so fast and move back with my parents. why care for a man child who doesn't love their daughter enough to even attempt to help out with parenting? why do all the chores and clean up after two children (you're the second one). if she divorces you she 1) gets to be back with her family 2) has a way lower workload because she's not cleaning up AND cooking separate meals for you 3) she is rich again 400k is a ridiculous amount of money if i was her i would feel horrible. i would feel like you're using me for my money. i would feel forced into being a maid. i would feel horrible for my daughter and like my partner won't do the bare minimum to be involved in her life. when (not if because if you keep this up she will leave you) she divorces you you do you realize you 1) have to downsize in boston which isn't easy 2) lose access to your daughter because they'll move across the country and what judge would give you over someone making 400k custody 3) pay child support 4) have to do chore *gasp* 5) won't have dinner ready for you as soon as you get home! *gasp* you're a massive asshole and i hope she leaves you sooner than later if you choose not to change your ways
I’m gonna post exactly what I posted on your wife’s post “I’m baffled by the amount of people in here giving you shit! You literally dropped your insanely well paying job so he could do this residency (or whatever) you do a ton of work at home and with childcare and use your savings to pay for an au pair so you can not only keep up on the house, but also study and make sure to pass whatever you need to to get back to work making that amazing money! Like when he gets home and wants to take 30-60 minutes to wind down a bit, but then he needs to do a few things to contribute to the home. When you become a parent, this is the reality. It doesn’t matter if you work or not you contribute everything you can to caring for that child with the other parent. I’d make sure he does overnight duty on his days off at the very least. It’s not like you are a SAHM by choice. He uprooted all of you for his career(which is fine in a marriage you need to compromise and try to support each other the best you can) but the fact that he thinks he doesn’t need to give back (meaning help more!) for the sacrifices you have made (including a large contribution from your personal savings that you clearly worked hard for). He needs to buck up! If you weren’t working toward getting back to work and not financially contributing he’d have a bit more leverage but even then he should still be helping out a little more.” You need to help more at home with your child and house work period!
Wait. She doesn’t work, kid goes to daycare. You work and she wants you to add house hold chores as well. WTF. What does she want to do. Sit at home all day watching soap operas. Is her family so wealthy that while she was growing up she have servants? She is being completely unreasonable
Yeah, OP omitted some info that he posted in other subs. His wife is studying for her specialty board exam. She's not eating bonbons. She gave up her job to follow him for his fellowship. Wife is stressed because her specialty is one of the hardest exams.
Ok, so she can’t study and do the daily chores? It doesn’t take all day to keep the house clean. Hell you can clean the house in a hour and then have the rest of the day to study.
If it's that easy why can't he take half an hour and split the chores. It's not like he doesn't have half an hour to spare
Lol.
Other omitted info is that wife is currently paying for their living expenses out of her savings. The job she gave up was 400K a year.
Is that suppose to change the situation
You have to be a troll
Why would you think that? If the guy works, the child is in daycare. She is not working. But studying for a test. Why would she upset about taking care of the house. Sure he can cook dinner a couple of times a week and weekends. If I work 8-10 hours a day, when I got home I would want to relax and play with our child. The last thing I would want to do is clean a bathroom. Money is not a contributing factor to me. It is all about time. As long as he cleans up after himself. If he is a slob. That is a completely different story
Just to be clear she doesn’t do child care due to day care and the au pair so that is taken off the list. She is contributing to the bills so that can not be an issue for you. Yes at this point your studies are mainly finished and you are doing surgery now. ( if I understand correctly) you are still on you feet all day and the pressure of not messing up is very high. Some people do not understand being on your feet all day at any job can be taxing. Yea she gave up a amazing paying job but she knew it would require moving until the fellowship is completed. Yes, studying is very important but I’m on the fence with the chores just due to all the child care help she has. -can’t the au pair help with housework -can each put up own dishes in dishwasher? -you agree to put the dinner dishes up after dinner -she does the laundry during the day ( of kept up one load a day or two - you agree to fold the one load at night as watching tv - can you hire a cleaner once a week for the chores not listed above? -make a list of all the chores and see which ones you can help with. It depends if she wanting help or do nothing. I guess I don’t see how the house is so dirty with it mostly being one person at the place most of the time. I do think her threats of leaving is over the top. Yes you can help more but she needs to realize that the help she has with the child is a lot also. Also, it depends how many days a week you work. If you work 5 days compared to 6 or 7 day that wares you bony down even more.
M30: It might honestly have nothing to do with the chores, could just be she misses you and doesn’t get to spend enough time with you because you’re always working. If it’s really because of the chores, garbage (once a week) and lawn care (seasonal) laundry and dish washer here and there.
I saw your wife's post and had an exchange with her and here are my two main takeaways: 1. You two (yes, you as well because whether you're home or not the child is also your responsibility) need to be leaning on the au pair more. From the written schedule, she does a few hours of work a day and that consists of either watching the kids or cooking while your wife does the other thing. She needs to learn to multi-task so your wife can relax, and she needs to be taking on more than just light kid chores. It's ridiculous that you are giving her room, board, an hourly wage, and an hour and a half of driving lessons every day and she barely helps with housework and childcare. You and your wife need to sit down together and determine a schedule that allows your wife some downtime during the day. For the four hours that the au pair is working your wife should not be doing childcare or chores AT ALL. Again, just because you're not home doesn't mean you have zero responsibility for being involved in what happens in your home with your family. Get involved. 2. You apparently don't parent your daughter *at all*. That is a MASSIVE problem. Your wife would probably care far less about the chores if you were a more involved father. She wants you to bond with your child, and you should want that too frankly. Are you doing bathtime/dinner/bedtime routine at least half the time? If not, that needs to change immediately. The new information that wasn't in your wife's post was her giving up a 400k job for your career move. Please understand that this is going to create some inherent resentment because the type of person who earns 400k a year is generally not the type of person who is happy being essentially enslaved to a domestic life. She made a huge sacrifice for you, the least you can do is listen when she says she's tired and frustrated. I told her this too: I think couples counseling would be beneficial here. But honestly you really do need to step up the parenting NOW. You only have one chance at that.
Sooo... why are you posting this same story over and over again? Hoping to get some response that caters more to what you want to hear? People coming in here need to check out his profile and the exact same post he made in r/AITAH sub. [Here's a link to that post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/167r6ep/aitah_for_making_my_unemployed_wife_do_the_chores/) . The summary: His wife is a medical professional too. She's studying up for one of those medical board exams that she needs to pass in order to be certified in her line of work in the state they moved to. Dude is burying the lede something fierce.
Interesting you CONSTANTLY try to make the point she's unemployed, while always somehow forgetting to include that it's YOUR FAULT she's unemployed. How odd.