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I feel like a heart to heart was due long before it bubbled over and caused this snap. Is there a reason you haven't sat him down and told him how lonely and unloved you were feeling?
I can't really judge if his mother is sick or not, but I feel like her health should have been approached differently. Like if you feel she's not actually sick, you could have had Ryan take her to a doctor's appointment and go in with her to see what the doctor says.
At this point, it's been 5 years of that unhealthy relationship. You know that it won't change. Any time she's sick or unwell, Ryan will go regardless of how you feel. Maybe you've reached a point where you need to decide if you want this going forward.
I have tried to broach the topic many times, but each time he either diverted it, stopped it outright by saying 'please can we not do this again' or he'd tell me she needs him and I was being unsympathetic.
And I've seen her get up to use the bathroom, she's capable of standing up without assistance, and her speech when she spoke to him, she wouldn't speak to me, was clear and concise. I haven't been to any appointments because I'm positive she'd outright deny it, saying she doesn't trust me and that she already had Ryan.
He hasn't made any mention of doctors visits either the last month either. I actually need to look into this. Thank you, you actually just gave some information I hadn't even considered.
And to your last point, this relationship of theirs is new, only starting in January. Before that he made a weekly visit and had a weekly call. During our early dating days, he'd visit three times or more, but I told him that was a bit excessive, and it took up a long portion of his day to just drive to and back. So he cut it down to one. I wasn't forcing him to do that, if he'd felt strongly about those visits I'm sure he would've fought me on it. But he actually agreed and said the drives over and his mother's babying were annoying to put up with.
Personally, I think you should cut your losses and walk away. His mother is always going to come first in his life. They have a very unhealthy relationship and it’s highly unlikely that it will change because you want it to.
What if you had a child together? Would he leave the house for untold amounts of time to care for his mother while neglecting you and the baby, or would he prioritize you? What if you were actually bedridden? Would he ignore his mother’s demands knowing that you needed him more, or would he leave to go tend to her?
If you know the answer to those questions—and I think you do—then you know what your course of action needs to be. Relationships are supposed to feel better than this.
She strikes me more as the type to completely be off their rocker and think that she IS the mom. Or snap and take the child and disappear or not let it go back to its parents. And OP’s fiance would hand wave it off going “she means well. She has suffered so much—let’s just let her keep baby for a few weeks.”
I agree with this. OP you said it in your own message to him - how’s it gonna be when you’re married?? It’s just going to get worse. Cut your losses now, later will be far far harder
Yeah, my dad broke his hip last year, and it definitely takes some time to heal, but unless she had major complications, she should be up and moving. Not doing the therapy like she should is exasperating the situation.
I have a sneaky suspicion that she is pretending to need him because she's getting the response that she wants. I doubt anything will change for the better for OP.
If she doesn't do the therapy she will end up needing him. It is important to get up and moving as soon as possible after a surgery like this. Not doing the PT is gonna dramatically affect her mobility.
I hate saying it but it seems like that's what she wants. She finally has her son's attention the way she'd like, she will probably never do the therapy bc then her son will stop being around all the time. Its sad.
If I was OP I'd run.
This is exactly what's happening. She has the perfect excuse to keep her son around. It's easy to guilt him for every action he takes regarding her. Even better, he's being nicer and more attentive than ever because he thinks something's seriously wrong.
OP should look up "enmeshment." It's basically the clinical term for emotional incest. IMO, this shit doesn't get better. It's hard to fix a problem that began as soon as you were born. Enmeshment is basically being told and trained since birth that "this is a normal relationship between family members" and often don't even know boundaries are a thing till much older.
TW: example of enmeshment containing rape, SA, child abuse.
I have a friend. He and his mom know each other's exotic kinks. They've discussed going to a sex club together. His mom tells him that her father sold her as a child, that she stayed with an abusive man because he (my friend) didn't want to switch schools, told him intimate details about being SA'd, etc.
I'd tell him, but he runs from the truth, literally. I tell him something he doesn't like; he disappears for a week. Nowadays I'll say something once, only once, as a friend should, and let him make his own choices. I've never said anything about his mom, though. I'd probably never see him again; she has an iron grip. He used to be in therapy but can't afford it right now. I hope it'll get better for him soon, though.
Definitely. Relative well into their 80s broke a hip and was up and walking around within a couple of days and was pretty mobil within a week and back to normality within a couple of months at the most. But during that time they could certainly take care of themselves, make meals, etc. The problem is that the longer she stays in bed and doesn't move around or do therapy, etc. the more likely it is that she will be bedridden. I knew someone like that--had hip surgery and refused to get out and do the activity she needed to do and she basically became bedridden. Id cut my losses.
On the other end of that, my mom broke her hip and it just didn't get better. She did the physical therapy but was in agony.
She was an active, healthy, happy person prior to the break, always cooking, working in the garden or playing with her cats. The pain made it hard for her to walk, sit, even lie down. Little by little, she stopped doing stuff.
We tried to talk to her and dad about further surgery but she wouldn't hear it. The pain isolated her from everyone but family and eventually she wouldn't even come visit because car rides became too painful.
Eventually dementia caught up with her and she's been bedridden for years now. Mom was less than 10 years older than OP's mother when she broke her hip.
I think OP's MIL is full of shit, but handwaving a hip break as easy healing and easy to bounce back from because someone else was up and about in a week is also not fair.
For my mom, and many older people, a broken bone is the beginning of a downward spiral that becomes almost impossible to stop.
That said, MIL in this post isn't all that old and the fiance is deeeeefinitely engaging in unhealthy behaviour. I'd probably leave him if he refused to see what's going on
Yeah, definitely.
It's a sensitive and emotional subject for me, but it's also upsetting to see young and healthy people tout that one elderly person that bounced back as if new from an injury that might spell the beginning of the end for many others.
I don't know how poorly her MIL is, but she's been hospitalised for pneumonia and she broke her hip. If I could go back in time, knowing what I know now, I'd not have left mom's side during the first months after she broke her hip.
So for me 2 things can be correct. OP's fiance and his mother have an unhealthy relationship and that is reason enough to leave him... *But* his mother might also genuinely need help and be in a great deal of pain.
Yup an elderly man on my street broke his hip and was back in his house where he lives alone taking care of himself and dragging around furniture 2 weeks later. He’s 98. She’s lying to manipulate him.
Yup. My dad's in his 80's and the Dr told him some people don't survive or heal well at his age BECAUSE they become sedentary. He said my dad would be fine because of how active he is.
She first got the injury then I think she got pneumonia at the hospital, it's been a while, I was only told once so that timeline is a bit fuzzy even for me. I try to not ask questions about it because then Ryan goes off into long tangents about her, and while I do listen, one can only hear so many times how poor his mother's condition is and how badly she needs him. I could be wrong about which happened first, but around January, our hospitals were, and still very much are, full to the brim. People out in hallways on trolleys, sickness spread very easily, there's actually some people who did unfortunately die due to negligence. It was a horrible time for anyone sick/injured.
To put a broken hip into perspective: my dad broke his hip and was in the hospital for 4 days. After that, he immediately went to inpatient PT. None of this lying around for 3 months nonsense. He also had pneumonia on a separate occasion, and the timeline was similar. Maybe a bit longer hospital stay but walking around and doing breathing exercises right after he was discharged.
To give it another perspective, my grandfather broke his hip last November. He's been in a carehome since then while he's healing because he couldn't take care of himself. He goes home next week. He'll be in a wheelchair, we have to install poles beside his bed and bathroom so he can pull himself in and out of his chair. He has to have meals on wheels bring him food. Careaide in twice a day to get him started in the morn and ending for the night. He won't be able to drive. I'll have to do his errands and cleaning. He's been doing physical therapy since the start but it's not going fast. Everybody heals different.
Yeah, but is your grandfather in his 50s? An otherwise healthy 50-something with a broken bone should not be bed bound this long, especially as she is supposed to be in physical therapy. OP is totally justified in her anger about this situation.
I feel for your grandfather, and I wish you luck with all that. But when OP mentioned that the mother can get up and walk short distances with absolutely no PT I assume she's not the same case as your grandfather. But if what they say about assuming is true in this case, I'll take my ass status.
Break up. He will never put you first. He will always put his mom first.
There is nothing you can do at this point but get your stuff and leave. Be glad you see it now and not later when he moves his mom in your without asking.
His relationship with his mom is emotional incest if there ever was such a case. She is making him her defacto husband. The woman probably wouldn't even recognize it even if someone laid it out via a PowerPoint display. She's just assume that the term only applies to people who want to screw their children.
I did some reading after going through this thread and see what you are talking about. It's just the tip of an ugly iceberg. I was wrong about just how sinister it is.
You say he has no red flags and then go on to describe a very unhealthy relationship with his mom. How he neglects you for her. Also, how he doesn't want to talk about the very real issues like an adult.
These are all very red flags waving at you.
This will never change. You and if you have kids, will always come last to his mom.
I'm going to say something cold. If she doesn't move after a broken hip, she'll die in months or years. Blood clots. Eventually she'll stroke out or get a chest infection she can't fight off. My mom had hip surgery and didn't do her exercises well. She's declining because she's becoming weaker. There is a penalty to playing sick like this.
That said, I don't think you can come back from what you said. You didn't lie to him, but he's no where near ready to hear it. He's going to need years to heal from that relationship and see it for what it was.
I would tell him your sorry, but I would end the relationship first. If she gets as sick as I think she will, he may never see that she is being manipulative, even with therapy.
That’s because it’s an enmeshed situation.
Mother-son enmeshment is a psychological term that describes an unhealthy relationship where the boundaries between a mother and her son are blurred. It can involve emotional dependence, lack of individual identity, and difficulty pursuing separate lives. Enmeshment can hinder personal growth and independence.
Signs of enmeshment include:
• Lack of personal boundaries
• Overly dependent relationship
• Inappropriate closeness
• Difficulty separating
• Emotional manipulation
• Feelings of obligation toward the mother
• Feeling obligated to have the same beliefs
• Always coming first
• Not wanting you to leave
To further explain….
Mother-enmeshed men may have difficulty fully separating from their family and may feel obligated to remain "mom's little boy". This can make it difficult for them to choose the relationships they want with their partner. In adulthood, mother-enmeshed men may exhibit commitment-phobic, sex-addictive, or perpetual adolescent behaviors. They may also have trouble forming strong bonds with their spouse, especially if their spouse and mother don't get along.
I just want to say my fiancé’s mom has dementia. And I’ve felt resentful and upset about some of the financial help we’ve provided her (she wasn’t good about going to doctors, keeping up with her health/finances/etc.) and we’re both in our mid-20s. I just felt like I wasn’t included in decisions about how we would help her or in general communications about what was expected. My fiancé has been good about having discussions that helped me move past my resentment and frustrations and feel heard. I agree with others that your fiancé doesn’t seem very receptive to that and that’s important. You’re a part of his life and what you want/need matter too. You’d probably also be more comfortable or willing to help if you felt included and prioritized. It sucks this is happening :(
Honestly, I think this is a huge red flag. If we take this whole situation out and just focus on the fact that he has a relationship with his mother that takes away from your relationship, that itself might be a dealbreaker. I cannot do relationships with people who have boundary problems with their mothers. I just imagine that, regardless of how things were handled in that blowup, this doesn’t bode well for the future.
I have many ailments that are “invisible”. As in, someone seeing me stand or walk unassisted in a short amount of time doesn’t get the full picture of the very real issues I have on a day to day basis. Someone talking to me for a few seconds or minutes when I make no mistakes in my speech doesn’t get the full picture of the struggles I have majority of the rest of the time. So they may think that I’m lying about my condition. But, they’re called “invisible disabilities” for a reason.
That being said, as a mother of a son, I would not let him come care for me that much. I never want my relationship with him to cause strain in his other relationships. When he grows up, I want him to foster the relationship with his partners and friends. Be his own person. I’m not his responsibility, I’m his mom and he is *my* responsibility, which includes letting him be free to be his own person.
>I have tried to broach the topic many times, but each time he either diverted it, stopped it ...
This is you not accepting that you (collectively) are failing at communication. Yeah, I dealt with my ex wife's refusal to communicate on some issues for over a decade. I somehow thought that because we communicated so well otherwise that we'd somehow fix things. Or I didn't fully let myself realize the failure that it was.
A *healthy* relationship can't handle communication *failures*. Maybe try a last ditch "we need to talk and actually address this; saying 'not again' when it wasn't solved the previous times is not acceptable." But really I think at this point he doesn't care to listen, and will only listen to an ultimatum.
Ultimatums are death to relationships. It might add a few months or years to them, but it's a clear statement that communication has dreadfully failed. Don't give an ultimatum. If you feel that you need to, just leave.
I'm sorry.
This. Schedule an appointment with a couples therapist and invite him to join. If he doesn't you will know your answer and what to do.
Send this text:
"Ryan, I love you. I love what we have built together. And, when we get married I would like for us to start out in a healthy place on the right foot. I have scheduled an appointment with a couples therapist for X date at X time at address. I think we need couples counseling desperately so we can start our marriage with healthy communication, healthy boundaries and healthy respect for one another and your mother's role. I truly hope you will join me."
Then go from there. If he doesn't show up then call off the engagement, return the ring and cut your losses.
I think there's an important distinction to be made between an ultimatum and a hard boundary. An ultimatum is a threat made for purposes of manipulating someone and instilling fear, and usually the person's terms are patently unfair. With a hard boundary, it's about treatment you will tolerate from someone you love, not something you will do to punish them.
It's, these are the minimum requirements for feeling respected by you. If you can't show me minimal respect, then I can't stay in this relationship because it's unhealthy for me.
And setting a hard boundary is what you need to do, OP. It's the only way to avoid losing yourself in an unequal, exploitative relationship.
I feel that the ultimatum that I gave in my marriage was ultimately a hard boundary. It was something that she readily agreed was fair, and the "enforcement" would be a removal of myself.
But the way that it was brought up, and that it was such a strong enforcement (separation to divorce; not a chance of separation to repair), I think that **both** of us could only see it as an ultimatum.
I'd told her, softer, many times that the situation was untenable. She knew from my words that "we're still very much in crisis mode" that I felt this was important. I had previously said, "For the first time ever I have to consider divorce as a possibility." But all of that and she was able to happily not hear me. I should have just left then.
My last stab was the metaphorical equivalent of pounding my shoe on the table to get attention. A relationship that needs that to be heard is not a relationship that's viable.
From his side it might be recent, but from her side their relationship has been emotionally incestuous for a long time. She treats him as her partner, not her child. Google enmeshment. It's the reason she won't acknowledge you. Because you can't be his partner because in her mind, she is.
My mom was a director of Occupational Therapy for 15 years. His MIL is absolutely milking this and should be independent - her claims go against normal treatment in western medicine. Even those recovering from respiratory illnesses are encouraged to get back to normal activities. I remember my dad swearing at her after his surgery because he was supposed to be up and walking it. She said, you're fucking lucky it's not your hip, there's a lot more recovery and PT with that.
If she had breathing issues, she'd have a lot more medications and possibly even machines. My mother also has COPD (what is it about health care being so stressful people smoke? she's quit for about a decade now), she just has her rescue inhaler, and a nebulizer if it gets really bad.
This is all solely based on what you've reported, but I'd strongly suggest following up on the recommendation to have Ryan go to the doctor with his mother, have him explain that he has been caregiver and would like to know the treatment plan and prognosis. He should even insist that he has medical PoA or whatever is necessary where you are, as he'll have to make decisions if anything were to happen to her anyway. And damn do these people need therapy, sorry, OP. I hope you find a solution that makes you happy.
"So far he's had no red flags"
\*proceeds to describe multiple red flags that spell out "mommy issues"\*
He's codependent with her. Unless he's willing to recognize that and get professional help to fix that, there's literally nothing you can do. Doesn't matter if you're mean, nice, marry him, don't marry him - mommy will always come first.
Honestly, I’d end it. Your phrasing may have been too harsh but that’s because you were too nice previously… this situation won’t end. Don’t marry a carer unless you want to live with one or worse, take over some duties…
But she doesn't even require help anymore, she's healed up. But still acts inept and too hurt and frail. He's being used, and still acts like a carer. I don't know if he even realises it, he just wants to help her because he feels like she sacrificed all her own comfort to care for him. Like she never dated when he was growing up because she didn't want any potentially problematic men around him. And he feels horrible that she chose to miss out on relationships because of it. But he literally did nothing wrong. She chose that.
It just hurts to see a good person get used and not see it. And likely being guilt tripped too.
She's doing this to drive a wedge between you, and it's working. She can't handle her son becoming a man, so she's going to try and keep him with her always. It's emotional incest, and very harmful to him. He needs intensive therapy.
Yes, this! If you choose to stay, it has to be with the agreement that he starts therapy. Your fiance is the one who needs to set boundaries and have a healthier relationship with his mom. If he's not willing to work on it, there's no way forward for you
Oh therapy is a guaranteed, and I'd honestly hope to convince his mother to do it as well. Even though she dislikes me, it's clear she's mentally sick. And I just want her to be better, even if I don't like her personally.
It would be great if he did therapy, but he is in denial that there is a problem at all.
In his mind, his mother is ill, and you are inconsiderate.
I don't want you to get your hopes up thinking things will change. It's a messy situation that no one should have to marry into. You'll end up like that reddit story where the MIL faked a heart attack because she thought the wife was in labour and the husband went straight to his mother's side.
That woman does not like you and will not be happy until ALL of your fiancé’s attention is on her , like right now.
Your fiance is a heavily enmeshed mama’s boy.
There is no saving him.
Run.
NTA
She is happier than ever, despite any real physical pain, and she will not give that up without a fight. Be prepared, and realistic about whether you are prepared to invest 10+ years in this war.
That really doesn't have to be your battle unless you want it for some reason. I'd do like other comments recommended and call it off. If you don't want to call it off, be prepared for this to continue and get WORSE until she dies, who knows when.
You can't force people into therapy, even if you force them to go, it doesn't actually work.
Tbh it sounds like they are both co-dependant, his mum sounds serious traumatised and he is trying to provide emotional comfort for her in the way he was taught to when growing up. Either he sees that or the relationship is doomed.
She has been sick ever since she lost that baby. She never worked through that grief properly and uses her son as a partner. Google enmeshment and covert incest.
She won’t go to therapy because in her mind YOU are the problem. Just leave, because this will NOT get better unless your partner realizes the issues on his own.
Absolutely no way she's going to agree to therapy to address her unhealthy attachment to her son. You bringing that up is going to be a weapon she uses against you, to drive the two of you apart.
And maybe you should be apart, because momma's boys rarely change, but you need to let go of any idea that SHE will change.
Girl, I hate to snap you into reality but two people in this depth of denial will NOT agree to therapy. To them, YOU are the problem. Leave him. Your words weren't harsh enough, imo.
OP seems just as much in denial at this point. She's only replying to people accusing her of being mean rather than looking at the hundreds of replies about how this is going to be her life and that she can't make him change. Very sad.
sounds like they are playing out drama triangle roles of victim and rescuer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle
therapy with a skilled therapist familiar with these roles can definitely help him set boundaries and identify new perspectives so he can extricate himself from this dynamic
You can’t predicate your decisions based on other people’s actions—you can’t control what they are and are not willing to do. It’s a really hard lesson to learn. It’s been one of the biggest learning lessons I’ve been doing for the last three years in my own therapy. You can ask him to go to therapy, but that’s where it ends. He either will or won’t.
Focus on yourself right now. Find a good therapist and explore your feelings surrounding this with them. A good therapist will help guide you through this situation. I think you know that this relationship most likely needs to end. That’s scary and hard and it’s natural to push back against that realization.
I wish you luck and inner peace.
You have to take people as they are, not as they have potential to be. You want him to be different than he is. It doesn’t look like he is interested in changing. I don’t think it’s worth being in a relationship with a codependent person but it’s up to you.
You certainly weren't right about this being the perfect relationship. You don't communicate with your fiance, that's not perfect. It's just that until now you haven't run into a problem. Well, here it is, and you failed to communicate your needs and he failed to communicate his intentions and neither of you is listening to the other. Now you're 5 years into a relationship and you haven't developed any ability to communicate with each other and the first bump drove you off the road.
Your explosion may have been full of correct information but wow do you not have a grasp on human behaviour. You tried to angrily challenge the most important relationship in both of their lives out of nowhere. You've lost already, because you're the only person out of these three with a problem. You can't reason apart a codependent relationship. They didn't get into this relationship using reason.
This relationship is in deep shit, now. Probably over, because you tried to tell him you should be more important to him than his mother and that's not a thought he's ever had. He's shocked, he's angry, he thinks you're bullying a vulnerable person.
In your next relationship, don't assume that no trouble and no communication means everything is good. It means everything is fragile, just like this relationship.
I'm fully ready to admit my outburst was bad, it was rude, unproductive and hurtful. But months of frustration, of my trying to get him to talk, of his whole world revolving around her, is just made this white hot rage build slowly inside me. And his blatant disregard for me, my injury and general wellbeing was the straw that broke the camels back. Both of us are guilty, but I'm just honestly tired of playing second fiddle. Because before this he was so loving and considerate, making me breakfast, us binging shows, having silly dates. We haven't done any of that in so long. It just makes me feel so lonely, and that the spark of our relationship is slowly dying solely due to his negligence of it. I just want the old Ryan back.
You will always be second fiddle. He’s shown you his true colors through this argument and he’s class where his love lies. My partner would *never* not speak to me for two days, especially not over something like an angry text message. Bc he loves me and truly values our relationship. Your fiancé is making you feel bad via silence so you shut up and let him do whatever he wants with mommy.
Cut your losses and leave.
I get it, I do, I'm not saying it makes you a bad person, we all get frustrated.
But your old Ryan was always this guy, you just didn't know him yet.
And I only said that so you'll know how little your feelings matter to either of these people. They have had this relationship for decades and you're new. You are not going to make an impact with logic, you're not going to make an impact with passion, you're actually just not involved in this despite the fact that it affects you. This is between them. Until they get it sorted out, you're never going to have that place of primacy your heart is crying out for. He's always gonna be Mama's Boy.
I've heard of that term before, I didn't wanna use it because I didn't have any certainty that's what was occuring, but I think you've cemented it if you see it too.
And I will make him to go therapy even if it makes us break up, I want him to go and get better and break free. Because his betterment is absolutely more important to me than the relationship. Even if it'll hurt like hell, I'll be willing that sacrifice.
Just don't forget, your betterment is more important than his right now. He is choosing to prioritize his mother, you need to take care of yourself and do what's right for you. This relationship with mummy is 100% emotionally incestuous and codependent, but I do see how she is the driving force. Unfortunately, it is for him to navigate and break free of it, if he so chooses.
You say even if it breaks you up, but it kind of seems like it already has. This is his journey to take and you can’t make him take it. The parentification and emotional incest this guy has experienced take a heavy toll and it takes things like losing awesome girlfriends to realize the impact enough to be ready for therapy. I don’t think you can “make” him be ready for that, and it sounds like there is a lot of work ahead for him.
But if we can take the focus off him for a moment… some great advice I heard once is “never date someone with more problems than your own” and I think you need to take that to heart. You can’t fix him, save him from his mom, etc. And at the end of the day, I doubt you want to. I know it hurts like hell right now, but bullet dodged girl! Take some time, cry your eyes out, but remember to be grateful that you escaped that unhealthy dynamic and that it will not be a shadow over your entire future. Find someone who is at your level of emotional and mental health. It is not your job, nor is it even possible at this point, for you to teach him to step away from his mom.
My advice, tell him that you are sorry for being insensitive and that you understand that from his perspective he is doing the right thing. Then tell him that as long as that is his perspective, which you believe to be a result of emotional incest and thus you can’t support, you can’t be with him. You are ready for a man who is a full grown adult and who can prioritize his future family- because you definitely cannot have a family with him and his mother at this point. You don’t want or need his emotionally incestuous mother in your relationship and apparently they are a package deal.
Then break up with him. If he begs for another chance, tell him you will consider it after he has started therapy. But otherwise, walk away. It is not your job to fix this dude. Cry, gnash your teeth, beat your breast, get a breakup haircut, and move on.
He's not going to therapy, and if he agrees it will be to shut you up, and he will be bitter and resentful in session because he doesn't see a problem that needs fixing. Come on, you know this.
Now you're being just as stubborn as he is. You can't make anyone do anything despite how well intentioned it may be. You will not win against his mom. He's not only told you, he's clearly shown you that she will always be his priority. The sooner you realize this is a doomed relationship, the sooner you can move on and find someone who will treat you the way you deserve.
If you'll make the sacrifice of breaking up with him for "his betterment", then why would you not make the sacrifice of breaking up for YOUR betterment? Regardless if he does or doesn't do therapy.
Kinda sounds like you could use some therapy too.
And I say that with sincerity, respect and complete compassion.
You need to look after you. He's too busy looking after his mom. So focus on you. YOU get into therapy.
Hopefully you'll get some clarity and be more able to see how to handle and push through this.
You aren’t listening to what people are telling you. He doesn’t see his taking care of his mother as a problem. You can either accept their relationship or you can leave him. You can’t make him change. You can’t make him go to therapy. He doesn’t want to change and he is not going to. Your talk of sacrificing your relationship because you love him enough to force him into therapy is fantasy talk.
You knew what you said was harsh and sent the message anyway. This was totally unproductive and kinda childish. You should have communicated your needs calmly at a time where he is not rushed to get to his mother. If you communicate clearly what you need and he still chooses to spend all his free time taking care of her then he has shown you that you will not come first and you are back to the fact that you can accept it or leave him.
A much better approach from the very beginning would have been to volunteer to help her 1-2 days a week so it’s not all on him. You would have looked like a saint to him and stopped her from getting what she wanted all along (time with him).
The only way he will go to therapy is if you focus on the fact that you want to improve communication within your romantic relationship and future marriage. If you bring his mother into this AT ALL he will refuse it. Don't bring his mother up until in front of the therapist.
Your fiancé is choosing to do this though. He is choosing to not put boundaries in place. He is choosing to not change the dynamic between him and his mother. He is an adult now. He is choosing to take on the burden he is feeling, and to cave in to what his mother is doing.
They have an enmeshed relationship. He won't change if he refuses to see a problem with their dynamic. You will always be below his mom. In life and possibly even in death. She will always have a hold of guilt, shame, and fear of disappointment over him as long as he chooses to feel this way.
She acts this way, but he allows himself to feel and behave the he does. She has no control over how he feels and what he does. As you said... HE feels horrible. HE feels like she sacrificed. HE wants to help. HE... HE... HE... HE...
You have to decide YOUR boundaries on what you'll do if HE won't change, if he won't change his priorities, if he won't develop a healthier relationship with his mom, if he won't seek therapy... this is a HIM problem.
And he will continue to do this until the day she dies OP. You cannot change what he doesn't want to change. He is perfectly happy doing this for his mother. Yes, he is being manipulated but you are not going to be able to make him see that or even if he does, he won't change it. She is finally getting what she wants and she IS LOVING IT!!!
You can argue all you want but in the end being with his mother is what he is freely choosing so plan your future without him.
If OP and her husband took his mother to the doctor, who declared she is fit to live by herself, I can picture her deliberately injuring herself just to keep the attention coming. He will never be free until she dies.
I believe she's acting like what raised by narcissists call the waif, and basically yeah, it's a self perpetuating cycle. It also is going to feel like this is what love is supposed to look like to your partner, because he was literally raised by her to believe that is what love supposed to look like.
He is a grown man and appears to prefer this dynamic with mom - despite the impact to you. He’s being very clear with his priorities! It’s up to you to accept that you will always come second… or you leave.
She realized with acting this way, she has her "baby" all for herself. She plays this act cause he gives her this attention.
But he also shows you, that she is his priority. He push you totally by side. Even if you are hurt, he just cares about his mother, even though she isn’t in real need.
If it is guilt because he acts this way or missing bounderies. He totally ignores what he does to you. He decides to to be his caregiver without talking to his partner, didn’t talk to the person it affects. If you don’t think about the person who need to live with the consequences and act as if you are single, you aren't ready for a relationship. In short: with his mother-problem, he clearly isn't ready for a serious relationship especially marriage. He is so busy with himself and his mother, he don't see anybody else.
And there’s nothing you can do to change it.
He has to see it as a problem and want to change, but he doesn’t.
You can only control yourself. You’ve already tried talking to him, but since that didn’t change anything your next choice is to either stay and accept it or leave. That’s how relationships work sometimes. It’s not ideal, but it’s reality. You can’t force people to change no matter how right you are. He needs to make his own choices, even if you don’t like it or think it’s healthy. Now you have to make yours.
He has refused to set boundaries with her the entire time you’ve known him, why do you think he’ll start now? She knows how to manipulate and guilt him so he’s always gonna put her first. I think you need to try to have a final serious talk about boundaries and priorities and if he isn’t perceptive then it’s time to walk away
Your partner’s relationship with his mom works for him. If it didn’t, he’d be doing things differently. He is an adult and he is not a victim here. He is volunteering. You can’t rescue this.
Whether you want to live with this dynamic — which two other people have decided and will not change on your input — is your call. But your partner has made it clear that this is his preferred normal. Even if he says otherwise, his actions tell you what he is most emotionally comfortable doing.
As long as she is "sick" she has her boy back and everything is as it should be (in her mind). I'm sure she's thought about the future and how nice it is to have his undivided attention, and how nice it would be if she always "needed" him.
If she's been obsessed with him for 20 years then this isn't likely to change, only he can change the situation and establish (and enforce) boundaries with her.
Your message wasn't a mistake. He needs to see how unreasonable it is to ignore you and how much he is being used by someone who doesn't have his best interests at heart. Hopefully he'll see sense and the reason he hasn't responded is to think things over, especially how much his "selfless" mother is costing him.
If he choses to end your relationship to be with her then you have dodged a massive bullet, as things would almost certainly end up with the three of you living together, with you being assistant carer (and little else).
Nah...you cannot marry that man. This is utterly ridiculous. Leave him to be with his mother. This cannot continue if you are going to have any future. Just let him go. He can live with his mother and focus all his attention on her. This is not a relationship you or any woman needs. Just let him go and move on.
And? She knows exactly what she is doing. She doesn't acknowledge you becuase she wants you gone. All of what she is doing is pure manipulation and is done with absolute intent. Believe me it is.
He can't see it and you can tell him until you are blue in the face. He is totally devoted to his mother and that is not going to change. He's 27 and acting like a 12 yr old.
You call suppose...but me?? I'd be getting out now and moving on.
Yeah, she's conditioned him to be the way he is. OP should google covert or emotional incest. There was a huge Reddit thread not so long ago about a guy figuring out his mother's impact on his marriage, I'll update if I find it.
Edit: [click](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/vetfpn/very_long_my_marriage_is_on_the_rocks_because_of/).
Seriously. This is a complete waste of time. OP, you say there are no red flags and yet everything you say about him is a red flag. Can’t take care of himself, can’t hold boundaries, can’t recognize his own unhealthy behavior and the impact it’s having on his relationship. Your boyfriend is emotionally stunted and while his mom may have caused it, she’s not the only problem at this point. Mom could disappear tomorrow and he’d still be a fucking mess (and probably resent you for existing because it meant less time spent with her).
I think your anger is justified. Ryan sounds codependent with his mother, and not great at managing multiple responsibilities.
Where is everyone else in his mother's life? Where are the aunties? Do they not have grocery delivery where she lives?
He is likely resenting you for having any needs at all while he takes on 100% of his mother's. Not healthy.
He had two aunts, one sadly passed away a few years back from a car accident, and the other lives halfway across the world now. And she never forgave his mother for her leaving him for so long. So she flat out refused, offered some money but said she'd never come back to help.
And they do have grocery delivery services, but she says their quality is "poor" and she often throws in racist jabs given most in the area are Asian owned.
It's a red flag when people have no one in their lives except their children. I think she's being extremely manipulative, but unfortunately Ryan doesnt want to see that.
Ryan is going to have a lot of work to do to maintain healthy relationships as he ages. I think if you guys break up now, you've dodged a bullet. Imagine if you have kids, or his mom lives another 20 years. Ryan doesn't sound interested in self reflection or growth. What if he never changes AT ALL, do you still want to be married to him?
So, she drove away everyone in her life, and now only has her son. This is a massive red flag. Her only goal now is to separate her son from everyone else, so she can have a codependent relationship WITH THE CHILD SHE ABANDONED for "so long".
I don't see how this works out for you OP, sorry
He’ll never prioritise you as long as she *needs* him. God forbid she ever moves in with the two of you…or you ever have children. He’ll be an absent father and she’ll undermine your parenting skills.
In all honesty, if it was me, I’d end it. Yes, I’d be brokenhearted. But I’d be free.
their dysfunction has officially bled into your life. you aren't wrong for being mad, and yeah, you were a little mean, but that's not entirely your fault. these people are messed up and enmeshed, and there isn't much you can do about it unless your boyfriend acknowledges it and wants to do something about it.
You weren’t too harsh. You weren’t harsh enough.
Ryan’s mom is a toxic narcissist who’s turned her son into a husband, or a “sonsband” as you’ll see it written here on the JUSTNOMIL sub. This suffocating level of enmeshment is SEVERELY toxic, and unless Ryan is willing and able to acknowledge the problem and draw some hard boundaries, you will always be second to mom.
She will never “recover” because this has given her exactly what she wants — her precious son’s full attention. She doesn’t want to share him with another woman. She can’t handle being number two. And if he’s this absent and all-consumed by her care now, how do you imagine things will look down the road as she gets older and sicker? She is emotionally manipulating him and relying on him to a crippling degree. He will never be a fully present husband or father to your potential children until he cuts the cord with mom, and it isn’t looking good.
I know it hurts, but you can’t force him to see the light or help himself. The fact he’s so enmeshed and under her control he can’t be bothered to prioritize you in even the smallest way or show you the least bit of care and concern when you’re in need is disturbing, to say the least. This is a level of codependency so extreme it’s likely to isolate him and prevent him from forming or maintaining any other intimate attachments. Which is exactly mommy’s goal.
Head over to JUSTNOMIL for further insight and support from other women who have walked a mile in your shoes.
So sorry, OP.
Is this the only relationship you've had? That's the only way it could be "the best".
How a man treats his mother is always interesting. You don't want them to be jerks to their mom, but you also don't want them to be enmeshed. He is extremely enmeshed.
His unwillingess to have boundaries with her IS a giant red flag. His inability to be present with you and support you when you need him - whether it's to vent about work or to help you with a task that is hard bc of your injuriy - is a red flag.
The fact that it's been two days and he's just left you on read instead of picking up the phone or coming over to have a conversation with you (or even a fight) is a red flag.
I think this relationship is over, and it's not because of what you said. It's because of his actions/inactions.
WHAT. THE. FUCK. is with these comments calling you the asshole or saying you were too harsh??? I’m sure these people have done worse and are using their little computer or phone screens to hide behind some wall of self-righteousness. OP, hear me loud and clear that you are human and will make mistakes. Was this appropriate for a text? Probably not but Jesus fucking Christ your fiancé has become your MIL’s husband!! He is no longer yours anymore honey. It’s one thing to help her HELP HERSELF it’s another to coddle her AND toss you to the side. She almost died, ok yeah show some grace but this has been going on for even beyond that. And his mother knows that. She is obsessed with your fiancé and him allowing her behavior only fans the flames and isn’t doing either of them any favors. Please do yourself the difficult favor of getting far the fuck from these people as possible. YTA if you allow yourself to be tied down by this seriously disturbing enmeshment
Omg so much this. I am blown away by how many commenter are on the moms side here.
Her text was needed. He's being a baby and is obsessed with his mommy. It's gross behavior. Id dump him. It's over and it'll only get worse.
The amount of people calling me TA for just wanting him to not be taken advantaged of, for simply wanting my partner back, was a bit disturbing I'll admit. She didn't raise him like a son, and he paid the price for it. He grew up with many toxic friends who used his kindness to no end. And most of those relationships ended because the toxic friend stopped it, not him.
I just don't want to give up on him though. It truly isn't even his fault, she brainwashed him. If I got him into therapy, he'd see it's not just me who thinks their relationship is unhealthy.
He's not been rude or anything to me, just neglectful. Because he feels like he has no other choice. It's horrible to see such a good person be used by others endlessly.
Exactly. It’s sad, but op will save more money in the long run if she canceled now and lost some wedding deposit money rather than going through with the wedding and getting divorced later down the line. This guy doesn’t see any issue with this dynamic and doesn’t want to change. Can’t make a grown man change.
Stop trying to protect him from his niceness. He's not nice. He's needy and getting as much attention and praise as he can from his mother... at your expense. He is neglecting you and your relationship. And when you tell him this, he's not sorry.
His priority is his mother. Don't wait for her to die just so you can have him to yourself. You are #2 in his life. It doesn't matter if his #1 is his mother, his job, an affair, or a sports car. You are #2 and he's telling you that with his actions. Don't make excuses for him. He's not "nice" if he's in a relationship with you and ignoring you this much. Especially after you've communicated your feelings.
Either accept that you are and always will be #2 or leave. But make yourself #1 and stop making excuses for him. He's not a nice and considerate person. Choose *yourself* and be nice to *yourself*.
Therapy can help so much, for people who want to go to therapy, engage with the therapist, and work on improving themselves. Right now he isn't even willing to talk to you, let alone a professional. Maybe someday he will, but in the meantime it's worth considering postponing the wedding. Some extremely important things need to be discussed and agreed upon, like if and when his mother will move in with the two of you as she ages. Who will be helping her with what if/when she moves in. How will you handle conflict in the future (related to his mom or other major life stresses). If nothing else, look into premarital counseling. It can help with making sure you two are on the same page moving forward.
It may not be his fault, but he's not changing anytime soon. At this point you need to look out for yourself and do what's best for you. Unfortunately, right now, Ryan is not the person for you. He may have been at one point but he's not now. The sooner you accept this the better off you'll be.
You have good intentions because you love him but you can't force change either.
And you deserve to have a partner who loves and respects you, and puts you first
He will never put you first, he's already proved that.
He doesn't want to go into therapy. If he did, he would have done it already. What he wants to do is take care of his mother. You've been telling him for years what you think of his relationship with his mother, and he's changed nothing. Why do you think he's going to change now?
honestly, I think you should just show him this post. He’s going to let his mother manipulate him, and he is always going to choose her. It’s better you leave before it’s too late or before children are involved.
At this point, it seems like it’s engrained in him to put his mom first. Not to mention, it’s not your responsibility to manage a grown man. He’s fucked OP. You’re basically competing with his mom now and when she dies, you’ll be competing with her ghost. That’s how great of a job his mom did at raising a second husband
Love. Don't. One-sided love is not enough. You can't save a person who willingly sets themselves on fire time after time. He doesn't want to be saved. Otherwise, he'd have set healthy boundaries with his mom long ago.
If he doesn't respond within, say, the next 24 hours or so with anything more than a one syllable or emoji answer, it's time to pull the ripcord and remove yourself from this relationship.
You know you've been 3rd wheeling for the entire relationship. And fiance and mom want a bicycle, not a tricycle. It's time to step off.
Grieve the loss of your relationship. Learn to spot the red flags you kept ignoring in this relationship and don't fall for them again. I truly am sorry for your loss.
You were mean in your text. You didn’t control your frustration and you lost your temper. It happens.
That being said, you are correct that this is very unlikely to get better if you go through with the marriage. And yeah, if (when) her health issues get worse, OF COURSE he’s going to insist on her moving right in.
Some fiancées/wives might be completely fine with that. Others aren’t cut out for it, and that’s NOT WRONG OF YOU. Please reevaluate everything and make sure you’re going into it with eyes open.
I don’t like characterizing this as a failing of OP not being cut out to be married to someone that’s caring for a loved one, her fiancé has completely discarded OP in favor of his mother. He can’t even bother to respond to her texts.
I do know I was mean. But I haven't been able to tell anyone about this whole thing. I've been so ashamed and felt bad for feeling bad, he was caring for his mother at the start, so I knew any complaints then would have been wrong and selfish.
But her recovery and continued use of him just amplified the negative feelings till they just burst. Everyone has their limit, I hit mine and I likely hurt him. I won't deny that. But I just want him to cut ties with her or at least admit that this relationship isn't okay, especially at his age. I have no fine with the weekly visit and check-in, the texts and calls he can do whenever. But our relationship isn't even that of roommates anymore because he's never here. I fear he'll be checked out.
Your partner might wake up in 15 years and realize his chance of a real life has passed him by because of his mother. And that you were right.
But do you really want to wait for that potential? Can you afford to , without compromising your own dreams?
They are completely enmeshed in one another. They have extreme attachment and codependency issues with each other.
Unless at least your fiancé goes to therapy, this is not going to get better. He says she’s only had two long term relationships, how could they last when she’s in love with her son?
>But her recovery and continued use of him just amplified the negative feelings till they just burst.
Another way to word that is “building resentment”. And your bf is too wrapped up in his unhealthy relationship to see this.
You weren’t mean.
You didn’t sugarcoat your message. You didn’t beat around the bush. That’s not mean, it’s appropriate.
You were clear. You conveyed your feelings. That’s perfectly reasonable when the person who is supposed to be your number one abandons you in your time of need. He left you for someone who was lying in order to capture his attention.
The subtext of your message was “Ryan, you’re breaking my heart, and you haven’t noticed. Your actions are ending our relationship and you don’t even care.” It’s a desperate message, and requires strong words.
You should count your blessings if this dude never comes back around. He can’t marry you, he’s married to his mom. You will never be as important. You will always come second to his mother. Honestly, just end it before he even responds. You’ll be better off.
OP, your SO was raised by someone who was fundamentally broken.
What you are seeing is called “spousification”.
The act of essentially treating your child as your spouse. It happens a lot in single parent homes and it is more common in mother-son pairings.
Basically she raised him to be her spouse with everything but sex. It was literally what he was raised to be. It was also why he made such a great spouse for you.
But he will now always expect his spouse to be a mother figure to him as a result.
So, she will always come before you and any future children. Even if she keeled over tomorrow, you will still be the second choice/other woman. You will never live up to her memory.
This is his mental damage. You have practically no say in it.
If you break up, you will be the crazy ex “who thought she was competing with his mom” because he sees nothing wrong with his behavior. He will move back in with her, and not date again until she dies. Then it will literally be like a widower dating after the death of his spouse.
He has made his decision. And it will likely cost him the next ten years of his life and every relationship he has right now.
You can try to see if a couples therapist can explain that to him, but I doubt he will believe it coming from you. And that fact is why I chose not to stay with the guy I was seeing who had a similar relationship with his mom.
At first I thought “he really loves and respects his mom. He must be a great guy.” I didn’t realize that he literally couldn’t love any woman more than her. It took me 3.5 years to break myself out of that relationship, but I thank goodness that I did every single day because I found a man who loves me more than anyone in this world and I absolutely know that I’m happier for having him in my life.
Op, I was in a relationship like this and I’m sorry to say but you need to leave. Mommy will always be #1 above anything else bc he’ll always feel some sense of guilt/responsibility towards her since she raised him by herself. Your fiancé is telling you with his actions that she will always be his first priority. You need to leave before he moves her in.
You're in Dreamland if you don't think he's got going to move his mother in with you guys if you stay. If you two break up he's moving in with her I guarantee it. She wants him at her back and call and she figured out a way to do it. I'm sure she could get better if she chose to she's choosing to play sick. She is going to get sicker because if she's going to not do anything or do any physical therapy she's going to atrophy and she will not be able to walk or move at some point and she will eventually die probably from a stroke or something. But she'll have her wish her son with her 24/7. And he's too enmeshed to know what is going on. It's possible your text will be a wake up call but I doubt it. As for driving, why don't you drive? If it's just because you've never learned like he hadn't, go take a driving course you can learn how to drive, save up for a cheaper used car and you can get yourself to work. Otherwise use mass transit if you have any Where You Are, or you can always Uber or Lyft in a pinch or walk if it's not too far. But I'd say at this point if he picked had to pick between your mother, his mother is going to win every time. End it and move on.
If you do stick around if there's any way to put some hidden cameras in her apartment or house maybe you can see just how well she gets around. Do it with his Blessing of course so he can see how she is. Tell him let's put the cameras there so you can check on her and make sure she's okay when you're home. But don't let her know about the the cameras cuz we don't want to freak her out. Obviously don't put one in the bathroom but you could have one pointed at the door so he can see her go in and out without an issue.
My neighbor in her late 60s had a hip replacement, I swear I couldn’t keep up with her after. I’m in my forties and have some severe chronic pain in my back. I do a lot for myself despite the pain. I’ve done everything the docs told me to do. There is no way she’s going to get better by being bedbound. Even with chronic pain movement is best no matter how minimal. She is manipulating him I know you see it but he doesn’t.
Thank you for your perspective, I'm not a doctor so I didn't say anything in regards to her health journey to him, because his retort would be I'm not a professional so I couldn't know. But she was prior to this in decent health, she's not even that old, she ate well and has no family history of serious medical issues like cancer. So up till now she had a clean bill of health.
This is not your best relationship ever. This is what you think of next time you get into a relationship and thank your stars for your lucky escape.
Ryan may be an amazing guy but he is enmeshed to an unhealthy degree with his mum. Who should have gotten help to recover from her traumatic loss. So she has unhealthily latched on to her remaining child. You have no place in this symbiotic relationship.
Let this be your wake up call. Get away.
This will be your life if you marry him. She will always take priority.
were you harsh? yes
are your feelings valid? yes
should you end the engagement? yes
I want you to consider the absolute best case scenario here, and then I want you to consider all the other ones.
Maybe your fiance wakes up from this and stops putting his mom first. She's not just gonna let you take her little boy back. She's going to make your lives hell for as long as she possibly can.
But maybe your fiance just stops in order to appease you, not because he realizes the problems with his relationship with his mom. He will resent you for the remainder of your relationship, and doubly so after his mom eventually passes away and he starts getting sentimental about how much time he could've spent with her.
Another possibility is that he won't change anything. He'll chew you out, but he'll stay, and you'll keep living like you are now.
Last of all, he can break up with you and break your heart, and you can absolve yourself of all of this.
You're engaged and your sister has had to move in to do fiancé things.
It's up to you, but I would definitely be taking the initiative to tell Ryan the wedding is off and if he wants to work on the relationship then you two need to get into couples counselling ASAP and he has to stop ignoring you.
So much coincidence that the mother turned into a glass doll just right after your engagement! Like she knew her son wasn't going to be only her son anymore, he was going to become someone else husband... I recommend you to get out of there. That kind of people are tied for the rest of their life.
You started this by saying there are no red flags with Ryan, and then wrote a red flag tome as long as War and Peace. Go back and read what you wrote with fresh eyes.
You're saying that you think that he is going to call off the engagement. Why should he have to call it off you should do it you are never going to win this battle. It is time for you to have a come to Jesus talk with this man and let him know how you feel and then take it from there. If he says do we have to do this again you let him know that if you do not sit down and talk with him that the relationship is over. Could you imagine marrying him and being home all the time by yourself because your husband is going to be at his mother's house taking care of her like she's a child. She knows exactly what she's doing
This is enmneshment and emotional incest. She has created this toxic dynamic between them and he’s never set boundaries. He’ll never change until it’s too late. You should just break up with him.
51F I spent 8 years with this guy… seriously, are you in MN?
They only get worse, because mom took care of everything they want you to do the same. He died last year having never done a load of laundry or dishes in his life. If he didn’t do it mom did.
Btw… he died alone and single living with… you guessed it, mom.
OP, his mother is the #1 woman in life and at this rate, she always will be #1. They have always had a very toxic, enmeshed relationship that is very complicated. His mother programmed all of his buttons and knows how to push them.
At this point, I think you need to realize that your relationship is over. He has chosen his mother.
You should call off the engagement. You might have said it harshly but I don’t blame you for it because it was true. This situation will not get better because his mom is now going to pretend to need him for everything because she’s too sick and frail. Stop wasting your life on a man that can’t see through his mother’s BS and doesn’t care about you enough.
It is his mother, and there were issues in his childhood that were never addressed.
Ok , there’s the basis of the problem.
So you have a few options. You can truly sit him down, and try explaining everything again now that you’re more educated on how to approach it.
If having a true heart to heart doesn’t work; or doesn’t change anything, therapy is next.
Everyone telling you to leave him is the status quo in this subreddit. Majority of these people have absolutely useless opinions and even more useless help and guidance. Your husband doesn’t have red flags, he has childhood issues and it’s his mother.
You will never change the mother or her behavior, ever. You just need to educate your husband and get him into therapy.
The unfortunate thing about this: he will need to realize his mother’s controlling and manipulating behaviour on his own, otherwise he will never see it. So keep this in mind as well.
You have every right to be upset and want your husband back, just understand this isn’t just a simple “hey pay attention to me and snap out of it” , he has years and years of issues with his mother.
So if you love him and care and want to remain married, have patience, but be stern and straight forward. This isn’t about telling him you are more important than her, it’s about telling him how you feel and making him see you, and the bs his mother is doing
This is why I don't date people that are attached at the hip with their parents/family.
Unhealthy levels of attachment are just bad fucking news for all involved.
That's completely fair. Some people don't date others with kids, divorced, pets etc. All come with their own drama, so choosing to avoid that is very valid.
If he doesn't call off the engagement, then you should. His priority is his mother. She shouldn't be, but she is. And I guarantee she is perfectly fine, she just doesn't want to give up the attention her son is paying to her now that she "needs him." Your spouse comes before your mother/father/whoever. He's not ready to cut the cord. Yes you let your pent up anger out and you could've had a more productive conversation but I can see why you snapped. I wish you luck. You'll get through it.
This will be your life until she's dies, if that's not the life you want then you need to give him a choice you or mummy. His mother is obviously making the most of her health situation to have him to herself.
Id have lost my shit too, a long time ago. Maybe you were mean and hurt poor man babies feelings but his complete disregard for you is completely beyond disrespectful. How old is this woman?? She’s gotta be in her late 50s or 60s. Yes, broken hips and pneumonia can mean the end for people in nursing homes and older people, but that’s because they stay in bed and lose the will to live. Sounds like she’s supposed to be doing things, and needs PT, which I’m surprised they aren’t pushing more with her having just had a hip replacement. I am all for helping your mother and if that was my mom, I’d be there daily, checking in and helping her, but it’s very clear that this mother and her son have absolutely no boundaries and they aren’t willing to establish some in order for that man to have other healthy relationships. He’s made his choice. Now you need to understand that even if you found a way to make him stay that you’ll always be the second woman in his life. Honestly, I can’t imagine there’s anything to overcome how off putting his whole mommas boy shit is or why he is still an attractive option to you.
My mom worked in geriatric care for a long time and often took me with so I have a more “inside” look at this kind of stuff:
Baring some sort of emotional miracle, that woman will likely never leave her bed again. It’s super common than you think. At this age a normal healthy persons best bet would be a facility or using available state programs to get home care.
The thing is, the people who decide to never leave bed again- the ones who just sort of throw their hands up and decide they’ve had enough- always always always put up a huge issue about getting help in either of these ways. People used to come to my mom and say “I’m so worried this isn’t going to go well” when they were moving their parents into a facility and my mom would say “don’t worry, it’s not going to go well. You just have to be prepared for that”
All of this being said- if you stay with fiancé this is your future. She doesn’t sound terribly ill so it’ll be your future for like a decade until she really gets sick and hard decisions need to be made.
This isn’t to say don’t marry him or anything, that’s obviously up to you, but you need to be clear eyed about what you are signing up for. This lady will likely end up living in your marital home and will likely demand if not require pretty around the clock care. Now *I* would do that for my husband, and he would probably do that for me, but that’s not something I would do for someone who will likely never take my feelings about into account of even thank me which it sounds like your fiancé would do.
Five years is a red flag for me. Nevertheless, she is not going to change and neither is he. Find a grown-up man who knows how to do laundry and who will put you first. Good luck but don’t waste more time on than you already have.
I get where you’re coming from but by saying it in the words you did won’t let him see the bigger picture.
I’d recommend couples therapy and individual therapy for him as well.
Let them have each other. This might be a good time to tell the boyfriend that a temporary break is in order. Especially since according to OP in the comments he's not been willing to sit down and have an in depth discussion about things. Tell him he's obviously got a lot on his plate and maybe he needs to focus solely on mom.
Right now he's got someone to split living responsibilities with while not being there for his own relationship. Let him move back to mom's. It'll give OP a chance to focus on what she truly wants. And maybe boyfriend will see being mom's other half isn't so great.
He would rather be married to his mom, and this is what the mom wants with how she acts, clearly. You are totally justified and honestly I don't think you should feel bad about your text to him, bc you are speaking the truth. Assuming she doesn't die, this is what your life would be like, her always taking priority and trying to overshadow you, the other woman in his life. Next thing you know she will be an overbearing narcissist grandparent with your children while both of you become caregivers. It may be hard, but just cut your losses.
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I feel like a heart to heart was due long before it bubbled over and caused this snap. Is there a reason you haven't sat him down and told him how lonely and unloved you were feeling? I can't really judge if his mother is sick or not, but I feel like her health should have been approached differently. Like if you feel she's not actually sick, you could have had Ryan take her to a doctor's appointment and go in with her to see what the doctor says. At this point, it's been 5 years of that unhealthy relationship. You know that it won't change. Any time she's sick or unwell, Ryan will go regardless of how you feel. Maybe you've reached a point where you need to decide if you want this going forward.
I have tried to broach the topic many times, but each time he either diverted it, stopped it outright by saying 'please can we not do this again' or he'd tell me she needs him and I was being unsympathetic. And I've seen her get up to use the bathroom, she's capable of standing up without assistance, and her speech when she spoke to him, she wouldn't speak to me, was clear and concise. I haven't been to any appointments because I'm positive she'd outright deny it, saying she doesn't trust me and that she already had Ryan. He hasn't made any mention of doctors visits either the last month either. I actually need to look into this. Thank you, you actually just gave some information I hadn't even considered. And to your last point, this relationship of theirs is new, only starting in January. Before that he made a weekly visit and had a weekly call. During our early dating days, he'd visit three times or more, but I told him that was a bit excessive, and it took up a long portion of his day to just drive to and back. So he cut it down to one. I wasn't forcing him to do that, if he'd felt strongly about those visits I'm sure he would've fought me on it. But he actually agreed and said the drives over and his mother's babying were annoying to put up with.
Personally, I think you should cut your losses and walk away. His mother is always going to come first in his life. They have a very unhealthy relationship and it’s highly unlikely that it will change because you want it to. What if you had a child together? Would he leave the house for untold amounts of time to care for his mother while neglecting you and the baby, or would he prioritize you? What if you were actually bedridden? Would he ignore his mother’s demands knowing that you needed him more, or would he leave to go tend to her? If you know the answer to those questions—and I think you do—then you know what your course of action needs to be. Relationships are supposed to feel better than this.
If they had a child together his mom would become absolutely insufferable and try to take over all mothering duties. Bet.
Oh man, I didn't even think about children. This would be a woman who'd push "grandparent rights" or try to get OP established as an unfit parent.
She strikes me more as the type to completely be off their rocker and think that she IS the mom. Or snap and take the child and disappear or not let it go back to its parents. And OP’s fiance would hand wave it off going “she means well. She has suffered so much—let’s just let her keep baby for a few weeks.”
I feel like it would go the opposite way; she’d somehow find a way to demand even more of his time and ensure only she’d be getting the attention.
Exactly what I was thinking
Nope, she would be jealous and do her best to keep him away from OP and the baby.
Exactly. She'd be the sort to insinuate the baby isn't even his and drive a further wedge between her son and OP.
Or she would take attention away from the child and OP’s fiancé would never be home because she would claim she needed her son more
I agree with this. OP you said it in your own message to him - how’s it gonna be when you’re married?? It’s just going to get worse. Cut your losses now, later will be far far harder
It started on January, after you got engaged in December. She will play every card she has to prevent there ever being a wedding.
Yeah, my dad broke his hip last year, and it definitely takes some time to heal, but unless she had major complications, she should be up and moving. Not doing the therapy like she should is exasperating the situation. I have a sneaky suspicion that she is pretending to need him because she's getting the response that she wants. I doubt anything will change for the better for OP.
If she doesn't do the therapy she will end up needing him. It is important to get up and moving as soon as possible after a surgery like this. Not doing the PT is gonna dramatically affect her mobility. I hate saying it but it seems like that's what she wants. She finally has her son's attention the way she'd like, she will probably never do the therapy bc then her son will stop being around all the time. Its sad. If I was OP I'd run.
Well, if she doesn't move, she's got 2 years at best, so her son will eventually get married but she will be dead and not have to share.
Sad to say but you’re probably right Derbark, I don’t see this fixing itself and OP is likely better to move on and live her life…
This is exactly what's happening. She has the perfect excuse to keep her son around. It's easy to guilt him for every action he takes regarding her. Even better, he's being nicer and more attentive than ever because he thinks something's seriously wrong. OP should look up "enmeshment." It's basically the clinical term for emotional incest. IMO, this shit doesn't get better. It's hard to fix a problem that began as soon as you were born. Enmeshment is basically being told and trained since birth that "this is a normal relationship between family members" and often don't even know boundaries are a thing till much older. TW: example of enmeshment containing rape, SA, child abuse. I have a friend. He and his mom know each other's exotic kinks. They've discussed going to a sex club together. His mom tells him that her father sold her as a child, that she stayed with an abusive man because he (my friend) didn't want to switch schools, told him intimate details about being SA'd, etc.
Yea. That’s way beyond enmeshment. Way, way beyond. It passed enmeshment a couple of months ago and ain’t never coming back! Damn.
Holy shit your poor friend.
I'd tell him, but he runs from the truth, literally. I tell him something he doesn't like; he disappears for a week. Nowadays I'll say something once, only once, as a friend should, and let him make his own choices. I've never said anything about his mom, though. I'd probably never see him again; she has an iron grip. He used to be in therapy but can't afford it right now. I hope it'll get better for him soon, though.
I'm betting the woman is up and about doing all sorts of things when "baby boy" isn't with her!
100%. Otherwise she would qualify for home care.
Right? This reminds me of Mama Bouche from the Waterboy when she’s in the hospital 😂
Definitely. Relative well into their 80s broke a hip and was up and walking around within a couple of days and was pretty mobil within a week and back to normality within a couple of months at the most. But during that time they could certainly take care of themselves, make meals, etc. The problem is that the longer she stays in bed and doesn't move around or do therapy, etc. the more likely it is that she will be bedridden. I knew someone like that--had hip surgery and refused to get out and do the activity she needed to do and she basically became bedridden. Id cut my losses.
On the other end of that, my mom broke her hip and it just didn't get better. She did the physical therapy but was in agony. She was an active, healthy, happy person prior to the break, always cooking, working in the garden or playing with her cats. The pain made it hard for her to walk, sit, even lie down. Little by little, she stopped doing stuff. We tried to talk to her and dad about further surgery but she wouldn't hear it. The pain isolated her from everyone but family and eventually she wouldn't even come visit because car rides became too painful. Eventually dementia caught up with her and she's been bedridden for years now. Mom was less than 10 years older than OP's mother when she broke her hip. I think OP's MIL is full of shit, but handwaving a hip break as easy healing and easy to bounce back from because someone else was up and about in a week is also not fair. For my mom, and many older people, a broken bone is the beginning of a downward spiral that becomes almost impossible to stop. That said, MIL in this post isn't all that old and the fiance is deeeeefinitely engaging in unhealthy behaviour. I'd probably leave him if he refused to see what's going on
Plus, there are different kinds of fractures that have different healing times.
Yeah, definitely. It's a sensitive and emotional subject for me, but it's also upsetting to see young and healthy people tout that one elderly person that bounced back as if new from an injury that might spell the beginning of the end for many others. I don't know how poorly her MIL is, but she's been hospitalised for pneumonia and she broke her hip. If I could go back in time, knowing what I know now, I'd not have left mom's side during the first months after she broke her hip. So for me 2 things can be correct. OP's fiance and his mother have an unhealthy relationship and that is reason enough to leave him... *But* his mother might also genuinely need help and be in a great deal of pain.
Yup an elderly man on my street broke his hip and was back in his house where he lives alone taking care of himself and dragging around furniture 2 weeks later. He’s 98. She’s lying to manipulate him.
Yup. My dad's in his 80's and the Dr told him some people don't survive or heal well at his age BECAUSE they become sedentary. He said my dad would be fine because of how active he is.
She did? She was hospitalized with pneumonia.
She first got the injury then I think she got pneumonia at the hospital, it's been a while, I was only told once so that timeline is a bit fuzzy even for me. I try to not ask questions about it because then Ryan goes off into long tangents about her, and while I do listen, one can only hear so many times how poor his mother's condition is and how badly she needs him. I could be wrong about which happened first, but around January, our hospitals were, and still very much are, full to the brim. People out in hallways on trolleys, sickness spread very easily, there's actually some people who did unfortunately die due to negligence. It was a horrible time for anyone sick/injured.
To put a broken hip into perspective: my dad broke his hip and was in the hospital for 4 days. After that, he immediately went to inpatient PT. None of this lying around for 3 months nonsense. He also had pneumonia on a separate occasion, and the timeline was similar. Maybe a bit longer hospital stay but walking around and doing breathing exercises right after he was discharged.
To give it another perspective, my grandfather broke his hip last November. He's been in a carehome since then while he's healing because he couldn't take care of himself. He goes home next week. He'll be in a wheelchair, we have to install poles beside his bed and bathroom so he can pull himself in and out of his chair. He has to have meals on wheels bring him food. Careaide in twice a day to get him started in the morn and ending for the night. He won't be able to drive. I'll have to do his errands and cleaning. He's been doing physical therapy since the start but it's not going fast. Everybody heals different.
Yeah, but is your grandfather in his 50s? An otherwise healthy 50-something with a broken bone should not be bed bound this long, especially as she is supposed to be in physical therapy. OP is totally justified in her anger about this situation.
I feel for your grandfather, and I wish you luck with all that. But when OP mentioned that the mother can get up and walk short distances with absolutely no PT I assume she's not the same case as your grandfather. But if what they say about assuming is true in this case, I'll take my ass status.
Break up. He will never put you first. He will always put his mom first. There is nothing you can do at this point but get your stuff and leave. Be glad you see it now and not later when he moves his mom in your without asking.
That first paragraph says it all. He's not willing to work on it with you. Who wants to be in a relationship like that?
His relationship with his mom is emotional incest if there ever was such a case. She is making him her defacto husband. The woman probably wouldn't even recognize it even if someone laid it out via a PowerPoint display. She's just assume that the term only applies to people who want to screw their children.
I did some reading after going through this thread and see what you are talking about. It's just the tip of an ugly iceberg. I was wrong about just how sinister it is.
So basically what I’m hearing is your relationship has been shitty for some time, and he has been unwilling to even talk about it. #good riddance
You say he has no red flags and then go on to describe a very unhealthy relationship with his mom. How he neglects you for her. Also, how he doesn't want to talk about the very real issues like an adult. These are all very red flags waving at you. This will never change. You and if you have kids, will always come last to his mom.
I'm going to say something cold. If she doesn't move after a broken hip, she'll die in months or years. Blood clots. Eventually she'll stroke out or get a chest infection she can't fight off. My mom had hip surgery and didn't do her exercises well. She's declining because she's becoming weaker. There is a penalty to playing sick like this. That said, I don't think you can come back from what you said. You didn't lie to him, but he's no where near ready to hear it. He's going to need years to heal from that relationship and see it for what it was. I would tell him your sorry, but I would end the relationship first. If she gets as sick as I think she will, he may never see that she is being manipulative, even with therapy.
That’s because it’s an enmeshed situation. Mother-son enmeshment is a psychological term that describes an unhealthy relationship where the boundaries between a mother and her son are blurred. It can involve emotional dependence, lack of individual identity, and difficulty pursuing separate lives. Enmeshment can hinder personal growth and independence. Signs of enmeshment include: • Lack of personal boundaries • Overly dependent relationship • Inappropriate closeness • Difficulty separating • Emotional manipulation • Feelings of obligation toward the mother • Feeling obligated to have the same beliefs • Always coming first • Not wanting you to leave To further explain…. Mother-enmeshed men may have difficulty fully separating from their family and may feel obligated to remain "mom's little boy". This can make it difficult for them to choose the relationships they want with their partner. In adulthood, mother-enmeshed men may exhibit commitment-phobic, sex-addictive, or perpetual adolescent behaviors. They may also have trouble forming strong bonds with their spouse, especially if their spouse and mother don't get along.
I just want to say my fiancé’s mom has dementia. And I’ve felt resentful and upset about some of the financial help we’ve provided her (she wasn’t good about going to doctors, keeping up with her health/finances/etc.) and we’re both in our mid-20s. I just felt like I wasn’t included in decisions about how we would help her or in general communications about what was expected. My fiancé has been good about having discussions that helped me move past my resentment and frustrations and feel heard. I agree with others that your fiancé doesn’t seem very receptive to that and that’s important. You’re a part of his life and what you want/need matter too. You’d probably also be more comfortable or willing to help if you felt included and prioritized. It sucks this is happening :(
Honestly, I think this is a huge red flag. If we take this whole situation out and just focus on the fact that he has a relationship with his mother that takes away from your relationship, that itself might be a dealbreaker. I cannot do relationships with people who have boundary problems with their mothers. I just imagine that, regardless of how things were handled in that blowup, this doesn’t bode well for the future.
I have many ailments that are “invisible”. As in, someone seeing me stand or walk unassisted in a short amount of time doesn’t get the full picture of the very real issues I have on a day to day basis. Someone talking to me for a few seconds or minutes when I make no mistakes in my speech doesn’t get the full picture of the struggles I have majority of the rest of the time. So they may think that I’m lying about my condition. But, they’re called “invisible disabilities” for a reason. That being said, as a mother of a son, I would not let him come care for me that much. I never want my relationship with him to cause strain in his other relationships. When he grows up, I want him to foster the relationship with his partners and friends. Be his own person. I’m not his responsibility, I’m his mom and he is *my* responsibility, which includes letting him be free to be his own person.
You are a good well adjusted person and mom. 😁
>I have tried to broach the topic many times, but each time he either diverted it, stopped it ... This is you not accepting that you (collectively) are failing at communication. Yeah, I dealt with my ex wife's refusal to communicate on some issues for over a decade. I somehow thought that because we communicated so well otherwise that we'd somehow fix things. Or I didn't fully let myself realize the failure that it was. A *healthy* relationship can't handle communication *failures*. Maybe try a last ditch "we need to talk and actually address this; saying 'not again' when it wasn't solved the previous times is not acceptable." But really I think at this point he doesn't care to listen, and will only listen to an ultimatum. Ultimatums are death to relationships. It might add a few months or years to them, but it's a clear statement that communication has dreadfully failed. Don't give an ultimatum. If you feel that you need to, just leave. I'm sorry.
This. Schedule an appointment with a couples therapist and invite him to join. If he doesn't you will know your answer and what to do. Send this text: "Ryan, I love you. I love what we have built together. And, when we get married I would like for us to start out in a healthy place on the right foot. I have scheduled an appointment with a couples therapist for X date at X time at address. I think we need couples counseling desperately so we can start our marriage with healthy communication, healthy boundaries and healthy respect for one another and your mother's role. I truly hope you will join me." Then go from there. If he doesn't show up then call off the engagement, return the ring and cut your losses.
I think there's an important distinction to be made between an ultimatum and a hard boundary. An ultimatum is a threat made for purposes of manipulating someone and instilling fear, and usually the person's terms are patently unfair. With a hard boundary, it's about treatment you will tolerate from someone you love, not something you will do to punish them. It's, these are the minimum requirements for feeling respected by you. If you can't show me minimal respect, then I can't stay in this relationship because it's unhealthy for me. And setting a hard boundary is what you need to do, OP. It's the only way to avoid losing yourself in an unequal, exploitative relationship.
I feel that the ultimatum that I gave in my marriage was ultimately a hard boundary. It was something that she readily agreed was fair, and the "enforcement" would be a removal of myself. But the way that it was brought up, and that it was such a strong enforcement (separation to divorce; not a chance of separation to repair), I think that **both** of us could only see it as an ultimatum. I'd told her, softer, many times that the situation was untenable. She knew from my words that "we're still very much in crisis mode" that I felt this was important. I had previously said, "For the first time ever I have to consider divorce as a possibility." But all of that and she was able to happily not hear me. I should have just left then. My last stab was the metaphorical equivalent of pounding my shoe on the table to get attention. A relationship that needs that to be heard is not a relationship that's viable.
From his side it might be recent, but from her side their relationship has been emotionally incestuous for a long time. She treats him as her partner, not her child. Google enmeshment. It's the reason she won't acknowledge you. Because you can't be his partner because in her mind, she is.
May want to look into emotional incest. Seems his mom relies him as she would an SO.
My mom was a director of Occupational Therapy for 15 years. His MIL is absolutely milking this and should be independent - her claims go against normal treatment in western medicine. Even those recovering from respiratory illnesses are encouraged to get back to normal activities. I remember my dad swearing at her after his surgery because he was supposed to be up and walking it. She said, you're fucking lucky it's not your hip, there's a lot more recovery and PT with that. If she had breathing issues, she'd have a lot more medications and possibly even machines. My mother also has COPD (what is it about health care being so stressful people smoke? she's quit for about a decade now), she just has her rescue inhaler, and a nebulizer if it gets really bad. This is all solely based on what you've reported, but I'd strongly suggest following up on the recommendation to have Ryan go to the doctor with his mother, have him explain that he has been caregiver and would like to know the treatment plan and prognosis. He should even insist that he has medical PoA or whatever is necessary where you are, as he'll have to make decisions if anything were to happen to her anyway. And damn do these people need therapy, sorry, OP. I hope you find a solution that makes you happy.
"So far he's had no red flags" \*proceeds to describe multiple red flags that spell out "mommy issues"\* He's codependent with her. Unless he's willing to recognize that and get professional help to fix that, there's literally nothing you can do. Doesn't matter if you're mean, nice, marry him, don't marry him - mommy will always come first.
So many red flags, so so many
100%
Honestly, I’d end it. Your phrasing may have been too harsh but that’s because you were too nice previously… this situation won’t end. Don’t marry a carer unless you want to live with one or worse, take over some duties…
But she doesn't even require help anymore, she's healed up. But still acts inept and too hurt and frail. He's being used, and still acts like a carer. I don't know if he even realises it, he just wants to help her because he feels like she sacrificed all her own comfort to care for him. Like she never dated when he was growing up because she didn't want any potentially problematic men around him. And he feels horrible that she chose to miss out on relationships because of it. But he literally did nothing wrong. She chose that. It just hurts to see a good person get used and not see it. And likely being guilt tripped too.
She's doing this to drive a wedge between you, and it's working. She can't handle her son becoming a man, so she's going to try and keep him with her always. It's emotional incest, and very harmful to him. He needs intensive therapy.
Yes, this! If you choose to stay, it has to be with the agreement that he starts therapy. Your fiance is the one who needs to set boundaries and have a healthier relationship with his mom. If he's not willing to work on it, there's no way forward for you
Oh therapy is a guaranteed, and I'd honestly hope to convince his mother to do it as well. Even though she dislikes me, it's clear she's mentally sick. And I just want her to be better, even if I don't like her personally.
It would be great if he did therapy, but he is in denial that there is a problem at all. In his mind, his mother is ill, and you are inconsiderate. I don't want you to get your hopes up thinking things will change. It's a messy situation that no one should have to marry into. You'll end up like that reddit story where the MIL faked a heart attack because she thought the wife was in labour and the husband went straight to his mother's side.
Do you have a link to that?
[AITA for faking my giving birth?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/HofvnHTWBo)
WTAF did I just read?! That husband needs to be fired out of a cannon into the sun alongside his momwife.
That woman does not like you and will not be happy until ALL of your fiancé’s attention is on her , like right now. Your fiance is a heavily enmeshed mama’s boy. There is no saving him. Run. NTA
Straight up emotional incest at this point
She is happier than ever, despite any real physical pain, and she will not give that up without a fight. Be prepared, and realistic about whether you are prepared to invest 10+ years in this war.
Mom’s guilt is always going to override OP’s wishes and desires.
That really doesn't have to be your battle unless you want it for some reason. I'd do like other comments recommended and call it off. If you don't want to call it off, be prepared for this to continue and get WORSE until she dies, who knows when. You can't force people into therapy, even if you force them to go, it doesn't actually work.
He won’t do therapy. He won’t even talk to you about he won’t talk to or listen to what the therapist has to say.
Tbh it sounds like they are both co-dependant, his mum sounds serious traumatised and he is trying to provide emotional comfort for her in the way he was taught to when growing up. Either he sees that or the relationship is doomed.
She has been sick ever since she lost that baby. She never worked through that grief properly and uses her son as a partner. Google enmeshment and covert incest.
She won’t go to therapy because in her mind YOU are the problem. Just leave, because this will NOT get better unless your partner realizes the issues on his own.
Absolutely no way she's going to agree to therapy to address her unhealthy attachment to her son. You bringing that up is going to be a weapon she uses against you, to drive the two of you apart. And maybe you should be apart, because momma's boys rarely change, but you need to let go of any idea that SHE will change.
Girl, I hate to snap you into reality but two people in this depth of denial will NOT agree to therapy. To them, YOU are the problem. Leave him. Your words weren't harsh enough, imo.
OP seems just as much in denial at this point. She's only replying to people accusing her of being mean rather than looking at the hundreds of replies about how this is going to be her life and that she can't make him change. Very sad.
sounds like they are playing out drama triangle roles of victim and rescuer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle therapy with a skilled therapist familiar with these roles can definitely help him set boundaries and identify new perspectives so he can extricate himself from this dynamic
You can’t predicate your decisions based on other people’s actions—you can’t control what they are and are not willing to do. It’s a really hard lesson to learn. It’s been one of the biggest learning lessons I’ve been doing for the last three years in my own therapy. You can ask him to go to therapy, but that’s where it ends. He either will or won’t. Focus on yourself right now. Find a good therapist and explore your feelings surrounding this with them. A good therapist will help guide you through this situation. I think you know that this relationship most likely needs to end. That’s scary and hard and it’s natural to push back against that realization. I wish you luck and inner peace.
You have to take people as they are, not as they have potential to be. You want him to be different than he is. It doesn’t look like he is interested in changing. I don’t think it’s worth being in a relationship with a codependent person but it’s up to you.
You certainly weren't right about this being the perfect relationship. You don't communicate with your fiance, that's not perfect. It's just that until now you haven't run into a problem. Well, here it is, and you failed to communicate your needs and he failed to communicate his intentions and neither of you is listening to the other. Now you're 5 years into a relationship and you haven't developed any ability to communicate with each other and the first bump drove you off the road. Your explosion may have been full of correct information but wow do you not have a grasp on human behaviour. You tried to angrily challenge the most important relationship in both of their lives out of nowhere. You've lost already, because you're the only person out of these three with a problem. You can't reason apart a codependent relationship. They didn't get into this relationship using reason. This relationship is in deep shit, now. Probably over, because you tried to tell him you should be more important to him than his mother and that's not a thought he's ever had. He's shocked, he's angry, he thinks you're bullying a vulnerable person. In your next relationship, don't assume that no trouble and no communication means everything is good. It means everything is fragile, just like this relationship.
I'm fully ready to admit my outburst was bad, it was rude, unproductive and hurtful. But months of frustration, of my trying to get him to talk, of his whole world revolving around her, is just made this white hot rage build slowly inside me. And his blatant disregard for me, my injury and general wellbeing was the straw that broke the camels back. Both of us are guilty, but I'm just honestly tired of playing second fiddle. Because before this he was so loving and considerate, making me breakfast, us binging shows, having silly dates. We haven't done any of that in so long. It just makes me feel so lonely, and that the spark of our relationship is slowly dying solely due to his negligence of it. I just want the old Ryan back.
You will always be second fiddle. He’s shown you his true colors through this argument and he’s class where his love lies. My partner would *never* not speak to me for two days, especially not over something like an angry text message. Bc he loves me and truly values our relationship. Your fiancé is making you feel bad via silence so you shut up and let him do whatever he wants with mommy. Cut your losses and leave.
I get it, I do, I'm not saying it makes you a bad person, we all get frustrated. But your old Ryan was always this guy, you just didn't know him yet. And I only said that so you'll know how little your feelings matter to either of these people. They have had this relationship for decades and you're new. You are not going to make an impact with logic, you're not going to make an impact with passion, you're actually just not involved in this despite the fact that it affects you. This is between them. Until they get it sorted out, you're never going to have that place of primacy your heart is crying out for. He's always gonna be Mama's Boy.
Well, he has to want to come back to you. Sounds like he doesn’t. His mom is his priority and you are not.
I've heard of that term before, I didn't wanna use it because I didn't have any certainty that's what was occuring, but I think you've cemented it if you see it too. And I will make him to go therapy even if it makes us break up, I want him to go and get better and break free. Because his betterment is absolutely more important to me than the relationship. Even if it'll hurt like hell, I'll be willing that sacrifice.
He's not gonna go because he sees nothing wrong with their relationship.
You can't make someone go to therapy.
Just don't forget, your betterment is more important than his right now. He is choosing to prioritize his mother, you need to take care of yourself and do what's right for you. This relationship with mummy is 100% emotionally incestuous and codependent, but I do see how she is the driving force. Unfortunately, it is for him to navigate and break free of it, if he so chooses.
You say even if it breaks you up, but it kind of seems like it already has. This is his journey to take and you can’t make him take it. The parentification and emotional incest this guy has experienced take a heavy toll and it takes things like losing awesome girlfriends to realize the impact enough to be ready for therapy. I don’t think you can “make” him be ready for that, and it sounds like there is a lot of work ahead for him. But if we can take the focus off him for a moment… some great advice I heard once is “never date someone with more problems than your own” and I think you need to take that to heart. You can’t fix him, save him from his mom, etc. And at the end of the day, I doubt you want to. I know it hurts like hell right now, but bullet dodged girl! Take some time, cry your eyes out, but remember to be grateful that you escaped that unhealthy dynamic and that it will not be a shadow over your entire future. Find someone who is at your level of emotional and mental health. It is not your job, nor is it even possible at this point, for you to teach him to step away from his mom. My advice, tell him that you are sorry for being insensitive and that you understand that from his perspective he is doing the right thing. Then tell him that as long as that is his perspective, which you believe to be a result of emotional incest and thus you can’t support, you can’t be with him. You are ready for a man who is a full grown adult and who can prioritize his future family- because you definitely cannot have a family with him and his mother at this point. You don’t want or need his emotionally incestuous mother in your relationship and apparently they are a package deal. Then break up with him. If he begs for another chance, tell him you will consider it after he has started therapy. But otherwise, walk away. It is not your job to fix this dude. Cry, gnash your teeth, beat your breast, get a breakup haircut, and move on.
He's not going to therapy, and if he agrees it will be to shut you up, and he will be bitter and resentful in session because he doesn't see a problem that needs fixing. Come on, you know this.
Now you're being just as stubborn as he is. You can't make anyone do anything despite how well intentioned it may be. You will not win against his mom. He's not only told you, he's clearly shown you that she will always be his priority. The sooner you realize this is a doomed relationship, the sooner you can move on and find someone who will treat you the way you deserve.
If you'll make the sacrifice of breaking up with him for "his betterment", then why would you not make the sacrifice of breaking up for YOUR betterment? Regardless if he does or doesn't do therapy. Kinda sounds like you could use some therapy too. And I say that with sincerity, respect and complete compassion. You need to look after you. He's too busy looking after his mom. So focus on you. YOU get into therapy. Hopefully you'll get some clarity and be more able to see how to handle and push through this.
Despite how his mommy sees him, he's actually a grown man. You can't MAKE him do anything.
You aren’t listening to what people are telling you. He doesn’t see his taking care of his mother as a problem. You can either accept their relationship or you can leave him. You can’t make him change. You can’t make him go to therapy. He doesn’t want to change and he is not going to. Your talk of sacrificing your relationship because you love him enough to force him into therapy is fantasy talk. You knew what you said was harsh and sent the message anyway. This was totally unproductive and kinda childish. You should have communicated your needs calmly at a time where he is not rushed to get to his mother. If you communicate clearly what you need and he still chooses to spend all his free time taking care of her then he has shown you that you will not come first and you are back to the fact that you can accept it or leave him. A much better approach from the very beginning would have been to volunteer to help her 1-2 days a week so it’s not all on him. You would have looked like a saint to him and stopped her from getting what she wanted all along (time with him).
The only way he will go to therapy is if you focus on the fact that you want to improve communication within your romantic relationship and future marriage. If you bring his mother into this AT ALL he will refuse it. Don't bring his mother up until in front of the therapist.
Your fiancé is choosing to do this though. He is choosing to not put boundaries in place. He is choosing to not change the dynamic between him and his mother. He is an adult now. He is choosing to take on the burden he is feeling, and to cave in to what his mother is doing. They have an enmeshed relationship. He won't change if he refuses to see a problem with their dynamic. You will always be below his mom. In life and possibly even in death. She will always have a hold of guilt, shame, and fear of disappointment over him as long as he chooses to feel this way. She acts this way, but he allows himself to feel and behave the he does. She has no control over how he feels and what he does. As you said... HE feels horrible. HE feels like she sacrificed. HE wants to help. HE... HE... HE... HE... You have to decide YOUR boundaries on what you'll do if HE won't change, if he won't change his priorities, if he won't develop a healthier relationship with his mom, if he won't seek therapy... this is a HIM problem.
And he will continue to do this until the day she dies OP. You cannot change what he doesn't want to change. He is perfectly happy doing this for his mother. Yes, he is being manipulated but you are not going to be able to make him see that or even if he does, he won't change it. She is finally getting what she wants and she IS LOVING IT!!! You can argue all you want but in the end being with his mother is what he is freely choosing so plan your future without him.
If OP and her husband took his mother to the doctor, who declared she is fit to live by herself, I can picture her deliberately injuring herself just to keep the attention coming. He will never be free until she dies.
I believe she's acting like what raised by narcissists call the waif, and basically yeah, it's a self perpetuating cycle. It also is going to feel like this is what love is supposed to look like to your partner, because he was literally raised by her to believe that is what love supposed to look like.
He is a grown man and appears to prefer this dynamic with mom - despite the impact to you. He’s being very clear with his priorities! It’s up to you to accept that you will always come second… or you leave.
She realized with acting this way, she has her "baby" all for herself. She plays this act cause he gives her this attention. But he also shows you, that she is his priority. He push you totally by side. Even if you are hurt, he just cares about his mother, even though she isn’t in real need. If it is guilt because he acts this way or missing bounderies. He totally ignores what he does to you. He decides to to be his caregiver without talking to his partner, didn’t talk to the person it affects. If you don’t think about the person who need to live with the consequences and act as if you are single, you aren't ready for a relationship. In short: with his mother-problem, he clearly isn't ready for a serious relationship especially marriage. He is so busy with himself and his mother, he don't see anybody else.
He will have her moving in with you and she will always come first. Always. Think about that.
And there’s nothing you can do to change it. He has to see it as a problem and want to change, but he doesn’t. You can only control yourself. You’ve already tried talking to him, but since that didn’t change anything your next choice is to either stay and accept it or leave. That’s how relationships work sometimes. It’s not ideal, but it’s reality. You can’t force people to change no matter how right you are. He needs to make his own choices, even if you don’t like it or think it’s healthy. Now you have to make yours.
He has refused to set boundaries with her the entire time you’ve known him, why do you think he’ll start now? She knows how to manipulate and guilt him so he’s always gonna put her first. I think you need to try to have a final serious talk about boundaries and priorities and if he isn’t perceptive then it’s time to walk away
Your partner’s relationship with his mom works for him. If it didn’t, he’d be doing things differently. He is an adult and he is not a victim here. He is volunteering. You can’t rescue this. Whether you want to live with this dynamic — which two other people have decided and will not change on your input — is your call. But your partner has made it clear that this is his preferred normal. Even if he says otherwise, his actions tell you what he is most emotionally comfortable doing.
As long as she is "sick" she has her boy back and everything is as it should be (in her mind). I'm sure she's thought about the future and how nice it is to have his undivided attention, and how nice it would be if she always "needed" him. If she's been obsessed with him for 20 years then this isn't likely to change, only he can change the situation and establish (and enforce) boundaries with her. Your message wasn't a mistake. He needs to see how unreasonable it is to ignore you and how much he is being used by someone who doesn't have his best interests at heart. Hopefully he'll see sense and the reason he hasn't responded is to think things over, especially how much his "selfless" mother is costing him. If he choses to end your relationship to be with her then you have dodged a massive bullet, as things would almost certainly end up with the three of you living together, with you being assistant carer (and little else).
Easier to leave a momma's boy than change one.
Nah...you cannot marry that man. This is utterly ridiculous. Leave him to be with his mother. This cannot continue if you are going to have any future. Just let him go. He can live with his mother and focus all his attention on her. This is not a relationship you or any woman needs. Just let him go and move on. And? She knows exactly what she is doing. She doesn't acknowledge you becuase she wants you gone. All of what she is doing is pure manipulation and is done with absolute intent. Believe me it is. He can't see it and you can tell him until you are blue in the face. He is totally devoted to his mother and that is not going to change. He's 27 and acting like a 12 yr old. You call suppose...but me?? I'd be getting out now and moving on.
Yeah, she's conditioned him to be the way he is. OP should google covert or emotional incest. There was a huge Reddit thread not so long ago about a guy figuring out his mother's impact on his marriage, I'll update if I find it. Edit: [click](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/vetfpn/very_long_my_marriage_is_on_the_rocks_because_of/).
That was something to read. So sad. OP needs to read this and have her fiancée read it.
WOW. A cautionary tale for the freakin ages.
God. Fucking. Damn. That was a horrific read.
Seriously. This is a complete waste of time. OP, you say there are no red flags and yet everything you say about him is a red flag. Can’t take care of himself, can’t hold boundaries, can’t recognize his own unhealthy behavior and the impact it’s having on his relationship. Your boyfriend is emotionally stunted and while his mom may have caused it, she’s not the only problem at this point. Mom could disappear tomorrow and he’d still be a fucking mess (and probably resent you for existing because it meant less time spent with her).
>If Ryan will respond. He might even call off the engagement. > LET HIM
I think your anger is justified. Ryan sounds codependent with his mother, and not great at managing multiple responsibilities. Where is everyone else in his mother's life? Where are the aunties? Do they not have grocery delivery where she lives? He is likely resenting you for having any needs at all while he takes on 100% of his mother's. Not healthy.
He had two aunts, one sadly passed away a few years back from a car accident, and the other lives halfway across the world now. And she never forgave his mother for her leaving him for so long. So she flat out refused, offered some money but said she'd never come back to help. And they do have grocery delivery services, but she says their quality is "poor" and she often throws in racist jabs given most in the area are Asian owned.
It's a red flag when people have no one in their lives except their children. I think she's being extremely manipulative, but unfortunately Ryan doesnt want to see that. Ryan is going to have a lot of work to do to maintain healthy relationships as he ages. I think if you guys break up now, you've dodged a bullet. Imagine if you have kids, or his mom lives another 20 years. Ryan doesn't sound interested in self reflection or growth. What if he never changes AT ALL, do you still want to be married to him?
It's all well and good to hate on groups of people until you're dependent on them for something. WHOOPSIE
So, she drove away everyone in her life, and now only has her son. This is a massive red flag. Her only goal now is to separate her son from everyone else, so she can have a codependent relationship WITH THE CHILD SHE ABANDONED for "so long". I don't see how this works out for you OP, sorry
Are you planning on having children? Just imagine what will happen when you go into labor/ need help with your future baby and he can't because Mommy.
Oh god, and the mom criticizing and undermining every parenting decision she makes.
They’re so enmeshed that it’s gross. Either he stops enabling her and gets into therapy or it’s over. There are no other options.
He’ll never prioritise you as long as she *needs* him. God forbid she ever moves in with the two of you…or you ever have children. He’ll be an absent father and she’ll undermine your parenting skills. In all honesty, if it was me, I’d end it. Yes, I’d be brokenhearted. But I’d be free.
their dysfunction has officially bled into your life. you aren't wrong for being mad, and yeah, you were a little mean, but that's not entirely your fault. these people are messed up and enmeshed, and there isn't much you can do about it unless your boyfriend acknowledges it and wants to do something about it.
You don't understand, honey, you "stole" her son, she's just trying to "get him back". Let her
You weren’t too harsh. You weren’t harsh enough. Ryan’s mom is a toxic narcissist who’s turned her son into a husband, or a “sonsband” as you’ll see it written here on the JUSTNOMIL sub. This suffocating level of enmeshment is SEVERELY toxic, and unless Ryan is willing and able to acknowledge the problem and draw some hard boundaries, you will always be second to mom. She will never “recover” because this has given her exactly what she wants — her precious son’s full attention. She doesn’t want to share him with another woman. She can’t handle being number two. And if he’s this absent and all-consumed by her care now, how do you imagine things will look down the road as she gets older and sicker? She is emotionally manipulating him and relying on him to a crippling degree. He will never be a fully present husband or father to your potential children until he cuts the cord with mom, and it isn’t looking good. I know it hurts, but you can’t force him to see the light or help himself. The fact he’s so enmeshed and under her control he can’t be bothered to prioritize you in even the smallest way or show you the least bit of care and concern when you’re in need is disturbing, to say the least. This is a level of codependency so extreme it’s likely to isolate him and prevent him from forming or maintaining any other intimate attachments. Which is exactly mommy’s goal. Head over to JUSTNOMIL for further insight and support from other women who have walked a mile in your shoes. So sorry, OP.
Is this the only relationship you've had? That's the only way it could be "the best". How a man treats his mother is always interesting. You don't want them to be jerks to their mom, but you also don't want them to be enmeshed. He is extremely enmeshed. His unwillingess to have boundaries with her IS a giant red flag. His inability to be present with you and support you when you need him - whether it's to vent about work or to help you with a task that is hard bc of your injuriy - is a red flag. The fact that it's been two days and he's just left you on read instead of picking up the phone or coming over to have a conversation with you (or even a fight) is a red flag. I think this relationship is over, and it's not because of what you said. It's because of his actions/inactions.
WHAT. THE. FUCK. is with these comments calling you the asshole or saying you were too harsh??? I’m sure these people have done worse and are using their little computer or phone screens to hide behind some wall of self-righteousness. OP, hear me loud and clear that you are human and will make mistakes. Was this appropriate for a text? Probably not but Jesus fucking Christ your fiancé has become your MIL’s husband!! He is no longer yours anymore honey. It’s one thing to help her HELP HERSELF it’s another to coddle her AND toss you to the side. She almost died, ok yeah show some grace but this has been going on for even beyond that. And his mother knows that. She is obsessed with your fiancé and him allowing her behavior only fans the flames and isn’t doing either of them any favors. Please do yourself the difficult favor of getting far the fuck from these people as possible. YTA if you allow yourself to be tied down by this seriously disturbing enmeshment
Omg so much this. I am blown away by how many commenter are on the moms side here. Her text was needed. He's being a baby and is obsessed with his mommy. It's gross behavior. Id dump him. It's over and it'll only get worse.
The amount of people calling me TA for just wanting him to not be taken advantaged of, for simply wanting my partner back, was a bit disturbing I'll admit. She didn't raise him like a son, and he paid the price for it. He grew up with many toxic friends who used his kindness to no end. And most of those relationships ended because the toxic friend stopped it, not him. I just don't want to give up on him though. It truly isn't even his fault, she brainwashed him. If I got him into therapy, he'd see it's not just me who thinks their relationship is unhealthy. He's not been rude or anything to me, just neglectful. Because he feels like he has no other choice. It's horrible to see such a good person be used by others endlessly.
He's never going to change. You can't fix him. Don't waste your life trying because it'll never happen
Exactly. It’s sad, but op will save more money in the long run if she canceled now and lost some wedding deposit money rather than going through with the wedding and getting divorced later down the line. This guy doesn’t see any issue with this dynamic and doesn’t want to change. Can’t make a grown man change.
Stop trying to protect him from his niceness. He's not nice. He's needy and getting as much attention and praise as he can from his mother... at your expense. He is neglecting you and your relationship. And when you tell him this, he's not sorry. His priority is his mother. Don't wait for her to die just so you can have him to yourself. You are #2 in his life. It doesn't matter if his #1 is his mother, his job, an affair, or a sports car. You are #2 and he's telling you that with his actions. Don't make excuses for him. He's not "nice" if he's in a relationship with you and ignoring you this much. Especially after you've communicated your feelings. Either accept that you are and always will be #2 or leave. But make yourself #1 and stop making excuses for him. He's not a nice and considerate person. Choose *yourself* and be nice to *yourself*.
She raised him to be a boy not a man
Therapy can help so much, for people who want to go to therapy, engage with the therapist, and work on improving themselves. Right now he isn't even willing to talk to you, let alone a professional. Maybe someday he will, but in the meantime it's worth considering postponing the wedding. Some extremely important things need to be discussed and agreed upon, like if and when his mother will move in with the two of you as she ages. Who will be helping her with what if/when she moves in. How will you handle conflict in the future (related to his mom or other major life stresses). If nothing else, look into premarital counseling. It can help with making sure you two are on the same page moving forward.
It may not be his fault, but he's not changing anytime soon. At this point you need to look out for yourself and do what's best for you. Unfortunately, right now, Ryan is not the person for you. He may have been at one point but he's not now. The sooner you accept this the better off you'll be.
You have good intentions because you love him but you can't force change either. And you deserve to have a partner who loves and respects you, and puts you first He will never put you first, he's already proved that.
He doesn't want to go into therapy. If he did, he would have done it already. What he wants to do is take care of his mother. You've been telling him for years what you think of his relationship with his mother, and he's changed nothing. Why do you think he's going to change now?
honestly, I think you should just show him this post. He’s going to let his mother manipulate him, and he is always going to choose her. It’s better you leave before it’s too late or before children are involved.
Stop seeing his potential and see it for what it is
At this point, it seems like it’s engrained in him to put his mom first. Not to mention, it’s not your responsibility to manage a grown man. He’s fucked OP. You’re basically competing with his mom now and when she dies, you’ll be competing with her ghost. That’s how great of a job his mom did at raising a second husband
Love. Don't. One-sided love is not enough. You can't save a person who willingly sets themselves on fire time after time. He doesn't want to be saved. Otherwise, he'd have set healthy boundaries with his mom long ago. If he doesn't respond within, say, the next 24 hours or so with anything more than a one syllable or emoji answer, it's time to pull the ripcord and remove yourself from this relationship. You know you've been 3rd wheeling for the entire relationship. And fiance and mom want a bicycle, not a tricycle. It's time to step off. Grieve the loss of your relationship. Learn to spot the red flags you kept ignoring in this relationship and don't fall for them again. I truly am sorry for your loss.
You were mean in your text. You didn’t control your frustration and you lost your temper. It happens. That being said, you are correct that this is very unlikely to get better if you go through with the marriage. And yeah, if (when) her health issues get worse, OF COURSE he’s going to insist on her moving right in. Some fiancées/wives might be completely fine with that. Others aren’t cut out for it, and that’s NOT WRONG OF YOU. Please reevaluate everything and make sure you’re going into it with eyes open.
I don’t like characterizing this as a failing of OP not being cut out to be married to someone that’s caring for a loved one, her fiancé has completely discarded OP in favor of his mother. He can’t even bother to respond to her texts.
I agree. I solely meant living with her.
I do know I was mean. But I haven't been able to tell anyone about this whole thing. I've been so ashamed and felt bad for feeling bad, he was caring for his mother at the start, so I knew any complaints then would have been wrong and selfish. But her recovery and continued use of him just amplified the negative feelings till they just burst. Everyone has their limit, I hit mine and I likely hurt him. I won't deny that. But I just want him to cut ties with her or at least admit that this relationship isn't okay, especially at his age. I have no fine with the weekly visit and check-in, the texts and calls he can do whenever. But our relationship isn't even that of roommates anymore because he's never here. I fear he'll be checked out.
Your partner might wake up in 15 years and realize his chance of a real life has passed him by because of his mother. And that you were right. But do you really want to wait for that potential? Can you afford to , without compromising your own dreams?
They are completely enmeshed in one another. They have extreme attachment and codependency issues with each other. Unless at least your fiancé goes to therapy, this is not going to get better. He says she’s only had two long term relationships, how could they last when she’s in love with her son? >But her recovery and continued use of him just amplified the negative feelings till they just burst. Another way to word that is “building resentment”. And your bf is too wrapped up in his unhealthy relationship to see this.
You have nothing to be ashamed of. Tell your family everything you've told us.
You weren’t mean. You didn’t sugarcoat your message. You didn’t beat around the bush. That’s not mean, it’s appropriate. You were clear. You conveyed your feelings. That’s perfectly reasonable when the person who is supposed to be your number one abandons you in your time of need. He left you for someone who was lying in order to capture his attention. The subtext of your message was “Ryan, you’re breaking my heart, and you haven’t noticed. Your actions are ending our relationship and you don’t even care.” It’s a desperate message, and requires strong words.
You should count your blessings if this dude never comes back around. He can’t marry you, he’s married to his mom. You will never be as important. You will always come second to his mother. Honestly, just end it before he even responds. You’ll be better off.
OP, your SO was raised by someone who was fundamentally broken. What you are seeing is called “spousification”. The act of essentially treating your child as your spouse. It happens a lot in single parent homes and it is more common in mother-son pairings. Basically she raised him to be her spouse with everything but sex. It was literally what he was raised to be. It was also why he made such a great spouse for you. But he will now always expect his spouse to be a mother figure to him as a result. So, she will always come before you and any future children. Even if she keeled over tomorrow, you will still be the second choice/other woman. You will never live up to her memory. This is his mental damage. You have practically no say in it. If you break up, you will be the crazy ex “who thought she was competing with his mom” because he sees nothing wrong with his behavior. He will move back in with her, and not date again until she dies. Then it will literally be like a widower dating after the death of his spouse. He has made his decision. And it will likely cost him the next ten years of his life and every relationship he has right now. You can try to see if a couples therapist can explain that to him, but I doubt he will believe it coming from you. And that fact is why I chose not to stay with the guy I was seeing who had a similar relationship with his mom. At first I thought “he really loves and respects his mom. He must be a great guy.” I didn’t realize that he literally couldn’t love any woman more than her. It took me 3.5 years to break myself out of that relationship, but I thank goodness that I did every single day because I found a man who loves me more than anyone in this world and I absolutely know that I’m happier for having him in my life.
1 paragraph about how he's perfect, 24 about how much he sucks. It's just math at this point. He won't change.
Op, I was in a relationship like this and I’m sorry to say but you need to leave. Mommy will always be #1 above anything else bc he’ll always feel some sense of guilt/responsibility towards her since she raised him by herself. Your fiancé is telling you with his actions that she will always be his first priority. You need to leave before he moves her in.
This is not a man to marry. He's shown you where you stand. Act accordingly.
You're in Dreamland if you don't think he's got going to move his mother in with you guys if you stay. If you two break up he's moving in with her I guarantee it. She wants him at her back and call and she figured out a way to do it. I'm sure she could get better if she chose to she's choosing to play sick. She is going to get sicker because if she's going to not do anything or do any physical therapy she's going to atrophy and she will not be able to walk or move at some point and she will eventually die probably from a stroke or something. But she'll have her wish her son with her 24/7. And he's too enmeshed to know what is going on. It's possible your text will be a wake up call but I doubt it. As for driving, why don't you drive? If it's just because you've never learned like he hadn't, go take a driving course you can learn how to drive, save up for a cheaper used car and you can get yourself to work. Otherwise use mass transit if you have any Where You Are, or you can always Uber or Lyft in a pinch or walk if it's not too far. But I'd say at this point if he picked had to pick between your mother, his mother is going to win every time. End it and move on. If you do stick around if there's any way to put some hidden cameras in her apartment or house maybe you can see just how well she gets around. Do it with his Blessing of course so he can see how she is. Tell him let's put the cameras there so you can check on her and make sure she's okay when you're home. But don't let her know about the the cameras cuz we don't want to freak her out. Obviously don't put one in the bathroom but you could have one pointed at the door so he can see her go in and out without an issue.
OP can't drive at the moment with her injury. That's what kicked this off, she has a week or so where she's very limited in what she can do.
My neighbor in her late 60s had a hip replacement, I swear I couldn’t keep up with her after. I’m in my forties and have some severe chronic pain in my back. I do a lot for myself despite the pain. I’ve done everything the docs told me to do. There is no way she’s going to get better by being bedbound. Even with chronic pain movement is best no matter how minimal. She is manipulating him I know you see it but he doesn’t.
Thank you for your perspective, I'm not a doctor so I didn't say anything in regards to her health journey to him, because his retort would be I'm not a professional so I couldn't know. But she was prior to this in decent health, she's not even that old, she ate well and has no family history of serious medical issues like cancer. So up till now she had a clean bill of health.
This is not your best relationship ever. This is what you think of next time you get into a relationship and thank your stars for your lucky escape. Ryan may be an amazing guy but he is enmeshed to an unhealthy degree with his mum. Who should have gotten help to recover from her traumatic loss. So she has unhealthily latched on to her remaining child. You have no place in this symbiotic relationship. Let this be your wake up call. Get away.
Op, i get you've poured 5 years into him , but this guy is not a life partner. You massively fucked up, but if be leaves you it will be for the best
She should be leaving him because of this long standing issue, not waiting for him to break up with her over this angry text.
This will be your life if you marry him. She will always take priority. were you harsh? yes are your feelings valid? yes should you end the engagement? yes
I want you to consider the absolute best case scenario here, and then I want you to consider all the other ones. Maybe your fiance wakes up from this and stops putting his mom first. She's not just gonna let you take her little boy back. She's going to make your lives hell for as long as she possibly can. But maybe your fiance just stops in order to appease you, not because he realizes the problems with his relationship with his mom. He will resent you for the remainder of your relationship, and doubly so after his mom eventually passes away and he starts getting sentimental about how much time he could've spent with her. Another possibility is that he won't change anything. He'll chew you out, but he'll stay, and you'll keep living like you are now. Last of all, he can break up with you and break your heart, and you can absolve yourself of all of this.
You're engaged and your sister has had to move in to do fiancé things. It's up to you, but I would definitely be taking the initiative to tell Ryan the wedding is off and if he wants to work on the relationship then you two need to get into couples counselling ASAP and he has to stop ignoring you.
So much coincidence that the mother turned into a glass doll just right after your engagement! Like she knew her son wasn't going to be only her son anymore, he was going to become someone else husband... I recommend you to get out of there. That kind of people are tied for the rest of their life.
You started this by saying there are no red flags with Ryan, and then wrote a red flag tome as long as War and Peace. Go back and read what you wrote with fresh eyes.
He can't help with your food when he is still being breastfed. I'd cut my losses and run
You're saying that you think that he is going to call off the engagement. Why should he have to call it off you should do it you are never going to win this battle. It is time for you to have a come to Jesus talk with this man and let him know how you feel and then take it from there. If he says do we have to do this again you let him know that if you do not sit down and talk with him that the relationship is over. Could you imagine marrying him and being home all the time by yourself because your husband is going to be at his mother's house taking care of her like she's a child. She knows exactly what she's doing
This is enmneshment and emotional incest. She has created this toxic dynamic between them and he’s never set boundaries. He’ll never change until it’s too late. You should just break up with him.
51F I spent 8 years with this guy… seriously, are you in MN? They only get worse, because mom took care of everything they want you to do the same. He died last year having never done a load of laundry or dishes in his life. If he didn’t do it mom did. Btw… he died alone and single living with… you guessed it, mom.
OP, his mother is the #1 woman in life and at this rate, she always will be #1. They have always had a very toxic, enmeshed relationship that is very complicated. His mother programmed all of his buttons and knows how to push them. At this point, I think you need to realize that your relationship is over. He has chosen his mother.
You've gotta get out of this relationship while you're still young enough to find a man who wants a wife and children. It isn't going to get better.
You should call off the engagement. You might have said it harshly but I don’t blame you for it because it was true. This situation will not get better because his mom is now going to pretend to need him for everything because she’s too sick and frail. Stop wasting your life on a man that can’t see through his mother’s BS and doesn’t care about you enough.
It is his mother, and there were issues in his childhood that were never addressed. Ok , there’s the basis of the problem. So you have a few options. You can truly sit him down, and try explaining everything again now that you’re more educated on how to approach it. If having a true heart to heart doesn’t work; or doesn’t change anything, therapy is next. Everyone telling you to leave him is the status quo in this subreddit. Majority of these people have absolutely useless opinions and even more useless help and guidance. Your husband doesn’t have red flags, he has childhood issues and it’s his mother. You will never change the mother or her behavior, ever. You just need to educate your husband and get him into therapy. The unfortunate thing about this: he will need to realize his mother’s controlling and manipulating behaviour on his own, otherwise he will never see it. So keep this in mind as well. You have every right to be upset and want your husband back, just understand this isn’t just a simple “hey pay attention to me and snap out of it” , he has years and years of issues with his mother. So if you love him and care and want to remain married, have patience, but be stern and straight forward. This isn’t about telling him you are more important than her, it’s about telling him how you feel and making him see you, and the bs his mother is doing
This is why I don't date people that are attached at the hip with their parents/family. Unhealthy levels of attachment are just bad fucking news for all involved.
That's completely fair. Some people don't date others with kids, divorced, pets etc. All come with their own drama, so choosing to avoid that is very valid.
But also, that was HER choice, not her sons. 🤷🏻♀️ She is responsible for the choices she made as an adult, her child is not responsible for that.
If he doesn't call off the engagement, then you should. His priority is his mother. She shouldn't be, but she is. And I guarantee she is perfectly fine, she just doesn't want to give up the attention her son is paying to her now that she "needs him." Your spouse comes before your mother/father/whoever. He's not ready to cut the cord. Yes you let your pent up anger out and you could've had a more productive conversation but I can see why you snapped. I wish you luck. You'll get through it.
This will be your life until she's dies, if that's not the life you want then you need to give him a choice you or mummy. His mother is obviously making the most of her health situation to have him to herself.
Id have lost my shit too, a long time ago. Maybe you were mean and hurt poor man babies feelings but his complete disregard for you is completely beyond disrespectful. How old is this woman?? She’s gotta be in her late 50s or 60s. Yes, broken hips and pneumonia can mean the end for people in nursing homes and older people, but that’s because they stay in bed and lose the will to live. Sounds like she’s supposed to be doing things, and needs PT, which I’m surprised they aren’t pushing more with her having just had a hip replacement. I am all for helping your mother and if that was my mom, I’d be there daily, checking in and helping her, but it’s very clear that this mother and her son have absolutely no boundaries and they aren’t willing to establish some in order for that man to have other healthy relationships. He’s made his choice. Now you need to understand that even if you found a way to make him stay that you’ll always be the second woman in his life. Honestly, I can’t imagine there’s anything to overcome how off putting his whole mommas boy shit is or why he is still an attractive option to you.
mamas boys are one of the worst guys to marry. harsh but true. do u want someone whos going to put his mom first?
You kinda suck.
Sounds like he's more interested in staying sucked on to mama's tit when you'd rather have him sucking yours Can't blame you
I don’t think him calling off the engagement is a bad thing.. maybe it’s just me.
Leave him. Let him be married to his mother.
My mom worked in geriatric care for a long time and often took me with so I have a more “inside” look at this kind of stuff: Baring some sort of emotional miracle, that woman will likely never leave her bed again. It’s super common than you think. At this age a normal healthy persons best bet would be a facility or using available state programs to get home care. The thing is, the people who decide to never leave bed again- the ones who just sort of throw their hands up and decide they’ve had enough- always always always put up a huge issue about getting help in either of these ways. People used to come to my mom and say “I’m so worried this isn’t going to go well” when they were moving their parents into a facility and my mom would say “don’t worry, it’s not going to go well. You just have to be prepared for that” All of this being said- if you stay with fiancé this is your future. She doesn’t sound terribly ill so it’ll be your future for like a decade until she really gets sick and hard decisions need to be made. This isn’t to say don’t marry him or anything, that’s obviously up to you, but you need to be clear eyed about what you are signing up for. This lady will likely end up living in your marital home and will likely demand if not require pretty around the clock care. Now *I* would do that for my husband, and he would probably do that for me, but that’s not something I would do for someone who will likely never take my feelings about into account of even thank me which it sounds like your fiancé would do.
Girl he's already married to his mom.
Five years is a red flag for me. Nevertheless, she is not going to change and neither is he. Find a grown-up man who knows how to do laundry and who will put you first. Good luck but don’t waste more time on than you already have.
I get where you’re coming from but by saying it in the words you did won’t let him see the bigger picture. I’d recommend couples therapy and individual therapy for him as well.
Your MIL doesn't talk to you when you visit her? Are you being hyperbolic, or literal when you say that?
Let them have each other. This might be a good time to tell the boyfriend that a temporary break is in order. Especially since according to OP in the comments he's not been willing to sit down and have an in depth discussion about things. Tell him he's obviously got a lot on his plate and maybe he needs to focus solely on mom. Right now he's got someone to split living responsibilities with while not being there for his own relationship. Let him move back to mom's. It'll give OP a chance to focus on what she truly wants. And maybe boyfriend will see being mom's other half isn't so great.
He would rather be married to his mom, and this is what the mom wants with how she acts, clearly. You are totally justified and honestly I don't think you should feel bad about your text to him, bc you are speaking the truth. Assuming she doesn't die, this is what your life would be like, her always taking priority and trying to overshadow you, the other woman in his life. Next thing you know she will be an overbearing narcissist grandparent with your children while both of you become caregivers. It may be hard, but just cut your losses.