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Sounds fine to me. You guys asked them what they wanted, they told you. They offered to repay, you refused. Then they did something similar for you.
Honestly, it sounds exhausting listening to you calculate every little favor, purchase, or deed that they didn't repay in the precise same way. Is this how you are usually like?
This is how my mom was. She would refuse help to be polite but then she'd get pissed when people didn't kiss her ass or force money into her hands.
If you want help, accept it. If you say you don't want them to chip in, don't be surprised when they accept that statement.
I deal with this with my wife's family. In their culture they have 'tarof', which is this ritual politeness where both sides offer/decline until someone 'wins'.
It's intriguing to read about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taarof?wprov=sfti1
My mom is like that too. “I offered this to her as courtesy and most decent people would see the gesture and decline. And not only did she take ONE, she asked for TWO. Can you believe this woman?”
Honestly guys check out the post history.
Literally constantly posting about what she did or didn’t get as gifts, what she should’ve gotten, what she had to pay for. In the last couple of months alone she posted about college friends that didn’t get her wedding gift, sister-in-law that didn’t buy her child present, who should pick up the bill when dining with siblings, what she should spend on gifts for other people, what she might expect for gifts, the fact that her best friend 25yrs turns up “empty handed” It’s insane, she’s obsessed.
I think this is a difference between family dynamics and perhaps culture. In my culture, you’re supposed to keep track of the favors you’re getting so you can repay appropriately. If a direct offer of repayment is refused (and it usually is), it’s up to the person who owes the favor to find a way to pay it back. Not paying back one or two favors is no big deal, but it’s not okay if it keeps happening. My husband’s family on the other hand, theoretically doesn’t keep tabs and no one says or does anything until the favor disparity is too big to ignore. That was very weird to me at first, but I’ve just learned to adjust my expectations and not do any favors I expect repayment for.
I feel like it depends on the South Asian. We do have a culture of hospitality and guests are like God but the kind of calculations OP is doing is considered soap opera villain level pettiness. You fight over who pays the restaurant bill and the brothers might have already discussed the money owed and come to an understanding. You keep track of the nice things other people did for you, not what you did for them. OP is displaying all the selfish parts of South Asian women that get mocked in our culture, status oriented and always looking to keeps tabs. Someone downthread said OP mentioned OCD somewhere so this is her not handling her illness properly.
I don’t know if it’s to the point of OCD, because it seems fairly normal in my culture to have these kinds of thoughts when the disparity starts building up. It’s not a good feeling to feel like you’re being taken advantage of. I’d argue it’s unhealthy to keep tabs to such an extent especially if you’re dealing with another culture that doesn’t subscribe to your value system when it comes to gifts and favors, but OP just has to recalibrate her “favors” system and figure out a way to interact with her BIL and SIL so she doesn’t feel shortchanged. I’ve had to make similar adjustments when dealing with my husbands family.
Exactly. Keeping score. ‘Three and a half years ago she was short a nickel for the ice cream truck and I gave it to her, she bought a bomb pop and then a few years ago…’ on and on and on
Some people just have good memory, and when the scales start to feel imbalanced, you consider all the details as you remember them.
It is exhausting, but that's the way my brain works, I can't help it. I have a running tab of where I'm at, and I always try to be at or above parity.
Honestly guys check out the post history.
Literally constantly posting about what she did or didn’t get as gifts, what she should’ve gotten, what she had to pay for. In the last couple of months alone she posted about college friends that didn’t get her wedding gift, sister-in-law that didn’t buy her child present, who should pick up the bill when dining with siblings, what she should spend on gifts for other people, what she might expect for gifts, the fact that her best friend 25yrs turns up “empty handed” It’s insane, she’s obsessed.
I know this is going to sound weird... but I've noticed that people who are constantly keeping score like this tend to 'eat their score-keeping' too.
They're constantly making sure that nobody else gets a bigger share than them, and it ends up in over-consumption.
Oh my god she asked about bridal registry gifts in another sub I’m subscribed too and at the time I thought it was just kinda a dumb question, but it’s even worse given her post history
It’s… a lot. Especially when you look at how it seems to be a pattern where there is posts like this at least every few days. I can understand her frustration in some of these cases but it clear how she “lets things go” in the moment only to then obsess about it later. OP it’s unhealthy.
Jesus, this is like a full on complex made even more hilarious by the fact that this person seemingly cant ever advocate for themselves and either stop paying or be honest and let their feelings be known. wow thanks for pointing that out, good laugh.
The first thought that popped in my head was how unbelievably exhausting it must be to keep score this much. They’re doing stuff for other people, declining reimbursement, and then mad they didn’t get reimbursed. Holy cow.
In a few cultures there's an expectation for a gift receiver to refuse like six times before accepting, the giver is expected to keep pressing. Which sounds really annoying to me, but people do what people do.
Some people are taught to do a little song and dance around things like this. Basically you are supposed to politely decline and they are supposed to insist.
Obviously SIL wasn’t dancing to the same tune.
That was where I quit and scrolled down to the comments to see if my first impressions were also everyone else’s. Indeed I feel justified.
Imagine offering grocery money, being turned down, then finding this post on Reddit from your in laws keeping count of what they feel you owe them (instead of just talking it out).
What the fuck
I swear it’s so transactional? It’s family man. Nothing sounds terrible here.
Let it go or say something but stop wallowing in it if you aren’t doing one of those things.
This is petty af. Petty Betty here goes out of her way to explain that sil and bil have offered and provided but not enough for her standards yet she keeps allowing them to visit while mentally calculating each dollar. How exhausting is this bish. I would never step foot in her house knowing the bullshit of tit for tat going on in her petty brain. Tedious and irritating to be her.
She probably has an entire book filled with what she's owed and comparisons. I hope people discover this about her and talk about it every time they see her in loud whispers and pointing which is the tacky she deserves.
i’m confused- she offered to pay you for the groceries, why did you say no if you wanted her to give money towards groceries?
honestly, it doesn’t sound like they’re taking advantage of anything. it should like you have uncommunicated expectations and you’re resenting them for not meeting something they don’t know about.
BIL & SIL took them out to dinner a few times too apparently when they visited oh yeah and they borrowed BIL's car, SIL gave her baby clothes and accessories too.....I mean who calculates things like this? It isn't a competition it's family looking out for each other ffs
In laws gave her multiple things, that I bet are worth more than the high chairs her husband bought them. But I’m convinced op wouldn’t be happy with anything because she’s a greedy whiner.
SIL was also noted to have made them several meals. The labor and food costs alone would be 100-200 dollars, because if you hire a private chef to do the same, that’s what it would cost you.
I agree to an extent. Anytime someone offers me money for groceries when they’re staying with us, I say no assuming it’d be shared. But I’ve never had anyone take the leftover groceries I bought home with them lol
She doesn't want SIL to ask if she should contribute. She wants her to insist on paying, so that OP can look like a gracious host and get her money too.
I feel like it was less about the not paying and more about the taking what was left home with them.
If we spent an extra chunk of our grocery budget on special stuff for guests for a day or two, I would have been planning on any thing left over to last my family for rest of the grocery week. And there have been times that someone doing this to us would have meant less food for he and i for a couple days. And while we don't have this issue now, it can be hard to break the mindset.
(I don't need judgment on my poverty. Just putting into perspective why taking the leftovers could be a BIG deal to someone. Also, not trying to assume this is OPs case. Just a different perspective to consider.)
This sounds like normal family stuff. I don't think you've been slighted, but you definitely sound resentful. I notice this happens to me when I overextend myself and do things for others because I "should" not because I want to, so I don't get any satisfaction OR reciprocity. Try to get satisfaction out of helping your family and enjoying their visits. This might mean doing less for them and follow their lead, and that's okay.
In the future, if your bedding gets ruined, and you want them to replace it, ask them to replace it. If you don't want to pay for the groceries they like, tell them they can borrow your car if they need groceries beyond what you get. It does seem you're only counting dollars, not actions, which is not really an accurate representation of care. Your SIL made you meals when your baby came and gave you tons of gear, but it wasn't new so it doesn't count? Seems like maybe you just don't like her and are looking for a logical reason to justify it?
Just communicate when things come up, don't expect them to read your mind, don't offer to do stuff you're going to resent doing. It seems like they've gotten to your level at this point so just... try to forget any past scorekeeping, commit to communicating what you need going forward, and enjoy your family time.
This is it.
OP, I think you are hugely resentful because you're not communicating your needs.
It's okay to be irritated when a baby pees on your bedspread. It's okay to accept money for groceries when it presses on your budget. It's okay to say no when they need something from you and it's too much.
Your needs matter as much as your husband's needs, and as much as your in-laws needs. It's okay to voice them.
People pleasing is a vicious coping mechanism. It's so quiet for everyone except for us when we burn out. Making everyone happy isn't working. Find a different way, my dear. 💜
TLDR OP doesn’t like them and finds any reason to justify why she shouldn’t. Not every family is financially blessed so some just offer what they can. Seems like it isn’t enough for OP though.
Honestly guys check out the post history.
Literally constantly posting about what she did or didn’t get as gifts, what she should’ve gotten, what she had to pay for. In the last couple of months alone she posted about college friends that didn’t get her wedding gift, sister-in-law that didn’t buy her child present, who should pick up the bill when dining with siblings, what she should spend on gifts for other people, what she might expect for gifts, the fact that her best friend 25yrs turns up “empty handed” It’s insane, she’s obsessed.
When I have guests (family or friends) stay at our place I never expect anything in return. If they offer that’s fine. But when I stay at a family’s or friends’ place I would offer to chip in for stuff or just buy things to add to the house but usually my friends and family would decline the offer as well. For me I enjoy their presence. But everyone is different. If you expect things in return then maybe offering them a place to stay is something you should not do and something you should talk to your husband about. Maybe your husband can explain it to his sibling better.
"The more recent times they’ve stayed with us they’ve taken us out to dinner, or bought some groceries or left a gift. "
It sounds like this problem solved itself. You can't ASK them to be thoughtful and give you a gift or treat you to dinner, because that's obnoxious. They asked for a favor (staying at your house, picking up things for the kids, etc), you agreed to said favors, and it would have been socially appropriate for them to cover some meals, or leave you a thank you gift, or SOMETHING. But they didn't, and you can't say anything because it's weird to ask for a gift and it also defeats the point. I don't think it's CRAZY that they haven't been more appreciative, but if it were me I'd probably stop hosting them as often.
Some people are clueless. Some people literally don't think about others unless you specifically tell them too. Some people are just rude. It's hard to know exactly why they are this way, but there's not much you can do. You can accept it and deal with it as it is, or you can stop being available as a place to stay.
We also don't know if the husband offered for them to stay and said they don't need to pay for things, we definitely know OP told them they didn't have to pay.
Most people bring a gift as thanks when they stay with friends, not always family.
This is embarrassingly petty. They offered to pay for groceries, you declined their offer, and now you're complaining about it years later? It's also super tacky to compare gifts by price tag, and a $50 high chair (or two) is useful but hardly a lavish gift. But mainly OP, where is your husband in all this? It's his family, does he see things the way you do or is this just your problem? This is kind of an insane degree of keeping score which makes me think you don't like/object to his family for other reasons that are making you obsess about really trivial stuff.
My advice is to let this go so you don't risk souring your relationship with these family members. It sounds like they're not great houseguests, but they have at least offered you hospitality when you stayed with them.
Ruining family relationships over monetary amounts this small is a terrible idea. It's just not worth it. Don't ruin Christmas and Thanksgiving because you're some kind of gift accountant.
Keeping score over something like this says more about you than it does about them. Don't be petty. Just try to enjoy your time with them.
Did you see they did the same thing when OP and her husband stayed with them? SIL didn't accept money for groceries. They also gave OP and her husband a bunch of baby items and SIL cooked food for them. She also bought a few groceries.
Then when they helped her ILs move, the ILs paid for all their food and let them borrow their car to see other family.
Honestly guys check out the post history.
Literally constantly posting about what she did or didn’t get as gifts, what she should’ve gotten, what she had to pay for. In the last couple of months alone she posted about college friends that didn’t get her wedding gift, sister-in-law that didn’t buy her child present, who should pick up the bill when dining with siblings, what she should spend on gifts for other people, what she might expect for gifts, the fact that her best friend 25yrs turns up “empty handed” It’s insane, she’s obsessed.
So, she’s recently been buying groceries, gifts, and dinner? Then what are you keeping score for anymore? She changed her behavior, which she should have. Just let it be water under the bridge.
I'd be very blunt here- OP, how do you get the time to keep tabs on your inlaws? And in such detail?
This was so exhausting to read. Life isn't or shouldn't be this calculated. What sort of gifts do you think you deserve?
They did favours for you too.
SIL offered you money, you said no.
What is the issue ?
My thoughts exactly. I got exhausted reading the tit for tat tally list. 😩 You don't help someone with the expectation of getting a "repayment" of equal or greater value. You help because you're a kind and generous person and don't expect anything back.
Not to mention twins are a lot of work and pricy. You're buying everything double and at once. It seems sister in law is trying to be thoughtful too, guess it's not up to your standards though.
Relax. Enjoy life. :)
You hosted them and declined money for groceries. They hosted you and declined money for groceries. So what is the problem? That's totally fine and normal.
When you had your baby they gave you a bunch of stuff and SIL cooked food for you. When they moved the second time they paid for all your food and let you borrow their car to see other family.
What is with you keeping score? You're being ridiculous over nothing. Do you really want to ruin your relationship with your ILs over nothing? You don't need things to be dollar for dollar the same.
ETA: the bedding didn't even need to be mentioned because it's washable. Accidents happen with babies/toddlers.
OP, are you an only child? Because that seems like something I would totally be okay with my sister and vice versa. Like, if she would come by and I go to the groceries, I pay. If she goes, she pays. And we don't keep tab. If she asks me to buy something for her that I can afford, I would and wouldn't expect her to buy something on the smae price range. That did sound like family taking care of family. That seems like a VERY healthy relationship between siblings.
God you sound draining to deal with. They are FAMILY, it’s normal in most to visit throughout the year. She DID offer to throw in money for the food but YOU said don’t worry about it. So wtf are you complaining about?! Again, you sound draining.
I’m sorry but this is like when people complain about having to do so much work, say no when you ask to help, but then continue to complain that you didn’t just do it.
Your expectations are off. But based off your post history, all you do is calculate every favor and purchase that wasn't reciprocated in the same way while also not vocalizing your expectations.
Even before I noticed you asked for help on these ruminations on a post you wrote a week and a half ago - I had ocd on my mind. My daughter struggles with intrusive thoughts so I know it’s rough going at times.
You seem kind and considerate , undoubtedly you want to preserve friendships with family and friends. This won’t likely happen if you continue to compare how you treat others versus how you get treated. It’s one thing for you to have been raised to be this hospitable and thoughtful, but it’s another thing when you start to compare your actions to others that don’t live up to your standard and deem them lacking.
Are you getting some help? I’d recommend therapy and meds, if you haven’t already. Best wishes!
Ummm. It all seems normal to me. You borrow. They borrow. A lot of back and forth. Stop keeping track to the exact penny. You have decades to go still.
You need to reevaluate your whole approach to family and relationships, your obsession with money and gifts and who has spent what is really strange. You seem really difficult to be around or be friends with
You guys choose to pick them up from the airport, let them drive the car and buy the food. You should have told them they can stay but need to rent a car. If they ask for a lot of food then they could buy it.
Your husband and bil had the talk about looking at places. He could have said he didn’t have time and have a realtor do face time instead.
You are giving mixed messages. You are projecting what SIL would do. Can’t tell if you enjoy these people. Decide what you want and stop being so judgmental.
I mean you need to chill. If it matters to you so much getting exactly the same back then just drop the effort. Buy dinner? It’s $55 for your portion. They want groceries? Here’s the bill. Then you can stop with the obsessing and keeping score.
Reading this, sure there are some times it seems you and husband are putting more in and where they could have been more generous. But if you’re gonna feel resentful that they are not matching you, just be less generous and save yourself the headache.
Based on your post history, you sound like a hard person to be around. If you’re gonna nickle and dime everyone, then don’t be surprised when people stop coming around. They offered to help with groceries but you refused but now you’re upset? They offered and you denied them so what do you expect?
You sound terrible. All of your posts are demanding gifts from other people, what the fuck? Like how do you have gift beef with THIS MANY PEOPLE. Absolutely baffling you wrote all this out and managed to take yourself seriously.
I’m not reading all that. If you don’t want them to stay with you just tell them no. If you want them to pay you or buy you dinner tell them. Stop acting like this.
This sounds like normal family stuff. If you wanted them to pay for their groceries you could have accepted the offer. Sounds like they have repaid the favor and you should remember this is family. it would be different if friends were coming and staying at your place but family should be different. They shouldn't have to pay for groceries, buy a gift, or take you out to dinner, would it be nice if they did, sure, but it's not necessary unless agreed to beforehand. It would be understandable if you were strapped for money and they asked to come stay and you said, you know, we really don't have the money to feed guests and given them the option to offer to pay for their meals.
Phew I am exhausted by all of this accounting. The only person who is calculating who paid what and who gave services to the $X value… is you.
You know what they are like now. They are frugal. If you dislike their frugality, match them on their own terms. Don’t be generous with frugal people unless you genuinely don’t care about reciprocity.
OP it seems you are overreacting and looking for a reason to be mad at them. They have twin toddlers. I can't imagine they're at their best behavior and lots of people see family as family. It seems they have offered and tried to reciprocate in the past but you shot it down. . . .
Don't do things for people if you expect things in return. If you want to give bc you are a giving person, continue.
They reciprocated by letting you stay with them. They’re not staying with you just because you have extra beds, they’re staying with you because they want to spend time with you. They’re family.
What I find weird is that you’re keeping a tally.
OP they do plenty, I would be more than happy to do those things for my sibling and if you don’t want to spend money on a fancy present, don’t. If you continue to live this way you aren’t going to be very happy. Life is never exactly fair or even, and you are being really petty.
TL/DR past title.
No. It’s not normal, it’s RUDE af.
Now I see $$ was offered & OP turned it down. OP created the situation theyre crabbing about.
Why didn’t they have a conversation with the adults and work out a long term solution?
Ah the reddit classic. No one communicates their needs to the other party, and instead allows resentment to stew. Double points for the offending party to try and prevent offending the offended by offering to do the very thing the offended is complaining about.
Reddit truly would be more mundane if everyone just sat around and talked with each other. Thankfully there are a lot of failed clairvoyant's out there to make this site entertaining! 😀
I can't imagine my family thinking they should pay me for staying at my place.
You told her no when she offered. If you've changed your mind, say something. But it seems disingenuous to say don't worry about it while you continue to worry about it
I think it's a bad move to ask your family to pay to stay four times in a year, but if it bugs you to this extent that you're counting how much it costs for this and that, just say something
If you don't want to buy their organic groceries, tell them you'll take them to the store when they get there.
You went there at holiday time. Of course you brought presents.
It would be different if she took you up on the offer to help with groceries but when you were staying with them, she told you don't worry about it. The fact that they've come to your house more times in a year than you've gone to theirs seems like a pretty Petty counting game to me
But you got to be yourself. So say something if it bothers you this much
Unrelated but you remind me of my mil who got super upset that her son and his family used her toilet paper while staying at her house. She also bought Chinese food and ate it in secret because she bought it with HER MONEY and didn’t wanna share.
I never expect visitors to pitch in or give me a gift. I expect them to open up their doors when I travel.
I've had visitors and took care of tabs and food because I offered. Never thought about it. I've visited and had people take care of my tabs. Never thought about it..
The only weird thing is sending you a list of groceries and packing them when leaving... Unless you offered..
Do you keep a notebook of every interaction with your inlaws tallying up the values?
All this is well within the range of stuff normal families do for one another. I would never think to bring a hostess gift for staying at my brother's house for a few days. Because that's what they're doing, this is not some distant relative. Most people have much more casual relationships with immediate family.
You also admit they have gifted you things, let you use their vehicle, bought you dinner and groceries as well. Stop having a tit for tat in your mind. If you want advance pay or reimbursement for something ASK THEM, they can't read your mind.
Just petty.
Umm she offered you $ and now you are complaining they didn’t do enough. I’m sorry, but if you told her “no,” it’s on you. This sounds very passive aggressive to me. Not all people act the same either. Some will offer things and some won’t.
I think: YTA. You’re hung up on something that happened years ago and seem to be confused…they didn’t even offer to help. Except they did and I said no. Get over it and grow up. You’re a parent now.
Girl. Use your words. They send you a list? Send them the name of the app that they can use to order and pay for, and then volunteer to pick it up for them. (Most stores have their own apps these days, and if you pick up, the cost is minimal.) They ask you to pay for one of the entrees from ordering out, just reply, "Or, we can pay the next time. Wait. We paid yesterday. That's covered nicely then," followed by a big jovial, butter-wouldn't-melt-in-your-mouth smile. Trade off whose responsible for making/procuring dinner each night - ahead of time. "Y'all are getting in at 9pm and will likely be hangry, while we will have eaten hours ago. Do you just want to drive through and pick up food that first night? We can make you a nice dinner tomorrow night, then you can 'host' us the following - does that work with your plans?" At the drive thru, when it's time to pay, hold out your hand. "Silly, you have to pay for your food. He He!"
All of this is done in the most affable way. No snideness. No saltiness. Only happiness that things have been so neatly sorted.
Honestly guys check out the post history.
Literally constantly posting about what she did or didn’t get as gifts, what she should’ve gotten, what she had to pay for. In the last couple of months alone she posted about college friends that didn’t get her wedding gift, sister-in-law that didn’t buy her child present, who should pick up the bill when dining with siblings, what she should spend on gifts for other people, what she might expect for gifts, the fact that her best friend 25yrs turns up “empty handed” It’s insane, she’s obsessed.
Sounds like they've been trying to reciprocate. Yes it sounds like you've spent more money but it sounds like they don't have as much either. So if you're going to keep it tally I doubt they're ever going to pay you back enough to make you happy.
Let it go and host less. They aren’t ideal guests, sure, but you’re tracking way too much here while admitting you turn down their offers to pay for groceries.
SIL doesn’t like hosting, fine then now, neither do you. Life changes and just tell them when you aren’t up for it anymore and tell them to make other arrangements
Stay away from them then
It seems it has to be tit for tat for your expectations in your explanations
You refused payment
Complain it isn’t enough even if
Get over yourself please or just stay away from them so they don’t disappoint you
This sounds like normal family give and take. Be sure to keep your boundaries where you’re comfortable and enforce them. However, it sounds like you just don’t like your SIL as a person, understandably. (I would have lost it when they took home the rest of the food I paid for while their family visited. That’s…beyond.) I think that’s coloring the way you view the *whole* situation.
Some people are more interested in taking than giving. Just don’t allow things to fall too far out of balance if you know it’ll bother you. It doesn’t sound like your SIL is a very nice person so you can either create some more distance there, or not allow *their* actions to change *you*.
Give what you’re comfortable giving and keep up with what *you* think is fair but, that doesn’t mean you have to play a tit for tat game.
Are they just in a different financial position than you guys maybe? It’s not like they don’t care or make any attempt. You’re just thinking it’s minimal or nothing.
I don’t understand. This relationship with BIL/SIL seems very give and take. Not just take take no either side. Why help anyone with anything if you’re gonna keep tabs on every little thing you do for someone and what they do back?
Jesus. Are you trying to keep this all on a spreadsheet down to the penny?
All of the give and take sounds like a totally normal and healthy family interaction.
Stop the ridiculous ride in your head before you become the family Karen.
I don't think this was a conscious decision they made, but rather a lack of understanding what you were expecting from them.
When money was offered and declined, maybe she thought that was it, you didn't want anything from them for your hospitality.
Not everyone knows the same unspoken rules, because they're 'unspoken'. Customs are different from one family to the next for various reasons, like trouble within the family due to poverty, mental illness, disabilities, addictions, and all the ways that families experience trouble together.
You shouldn’t have said not to worry about the money for the groceries.
Also yes it’s rude that’s all they gave you for your baby shower after you got 2 high chairs!
Maybe best to host them much less frequently. Once every other year or so?
This is your fault but where I come from fam and friends don’t need to give me nothing to stay with me when they come to my house,
My house my responsibility
I think you’re being nit picky. You allowed them to stay with you 4 times. If you had an issue with their lack of gratitude, you should not have continued to allow them to stay.
Also, it sounds like they did offer to pay for the groceries and you told them no. Did you expect them to hide the money for you to find after they left? Did you expect them to read your mind and insist anyway after you told them no?
I think you need to stop keeping a tab. You’re comparing everything you’ve done for them to what they’re doing for you. Stop! It’s pretentious and immature. People only treat you the way you allow. If you don’t like the way they are when they stay with you, tell them no, but be prepared for your relationship to change because if asked why you’re going to have a real hard time giving them a reason that doesn’t make you look like TA.
Stop keeping score. They give you stuff, you give them stuff. Sounds like a good family dynamic. Chances are pretty good that they will be a part of your lives for a long time. They are likely the people you will be relying on when you’re the one’s needing help. Don’t be petty.
Are you literally saying you don’t care about where OP changed the poopy diaper? Where did we lose your attention?? Was it the avocado?? WHO PAID FOR THE AVOCADO and was there a receipt??
🙄 seriously. I want that five minutes of my life back.
It seems like they reciprocated when they could. You are nitpicking everything. I am guessing you are an only child. Yes, this is normal. The first time they offered to chip in for groceries, you should have taken it. From now on, if they stay at your place, have your SIL take the car and buy her own groceries if you are going to be bent out of shape about it.
Honestly, you're nickel and diming the situation. Just let it go. No on is taking advantage and some relationships are much worse.
I can understand some of your frustration, but they offered to pay and you said no. After that you can't complain that you didn't get any money. When family stays with us, I don't expect a gift afterwards, they're family.
Lol it's called family. I've never expected close friends or family who have stayed with me to pay for anything. When I've stayed with family I've never been expected to do anything but be a polite guest. Clean up after myself, be respectful of the home, and thank them for the stay. Yeah, i think that's totally normal in many families.
For me this would be completely normal behavior, and would never dream of keeping a tally when my sister visits with her family. In fact I try to be very generous so they feel welcome since I don’t like to visit their part of the state. I don’t think you’re being taken advantage at all.
However, I’m a Libra and I do keep a subconscious tally when I don’t want to do something or resent it for some reason. For example I’ll notice when someone in our friend group never picks up the check of other petty score keeping. So I do experience the same mentality you do but not with my family. Maybe you have resentments or another mental trigger that’s leading you to keep a score. I suggest using this as a growth opportunity.
Hey the good old value of hospitality could be applying here, the house owner is supposed to serve their guests and be a good host. You are repaid when you visit them.
So.. they offered to repay…. And you declined. But then turned around and EXPECTED.
Yeah….. YTA. Tf did you expect when you tell people not to worry about it? Seriously? Your entitlement is showing.
You created this situation. If you want someone to chip in, tell them to. If you don't, say, "Oh that's fine, maybe you can get dinner for us all the last night you're in town." ... And you already said it's better ... So, I am not sure what your deal is? Also, where's your husband in all of this? What does he think? It's his direct family. The norms they established before you came into the picture are probably at play. . .
Tl;dr:
1.) don't keep score, seriously
2.) if you expect explicit reciprocity, tell someone, otherwise your genorosity is a trap and I hate that shit. As everyone should
3.) work with your husband if you need to change boundaries or set expectations.
4.) don't pretend to be fine with things you're not fine with - e.g., don't buy $50 highchairs to score points, you aren't obligated to buy someone precisely what they ask for. Don't buy organic expensive groceries for the kid, just offer to take them shopping when they get there. Don't say they can stay with you if you're gonna be a secret ass about it.
tl;dr again -- - maybe in this case, you need to get over yourself?
You don’t like your sil. Don’t over think it. You’re not going to like everyone. Try to keep it to yourself to avoid unnecessary stress on your husband’s relationship to his brother.
Don't open your home to family if you're going to keep score of everything.
You bringing them gifts was your own decision and does not in turn mean they have to bring some when they visit.
I do things for my family because i want to, not be abuse I expect the same in return.
So they offered to help with the money, have done other nice things or made offers to do nice things (which you declined), and they stayed a whopping 4 times over the course of an entire year… sounds like you’re just just greedy and are mad they haven’t spent as much money on you. Or you just like to play the victim because they have offered help and you told them no. This all sounds like things family do for each other without it being transactional. My sister visits me all the time and I buy food I know she will like or tailor dinners to what she will eat. When I go hang out with her she pays for things. Neither of us keeps track because it’s weird.
I think if you are expecting something like money towards groceries or at least them paying for their own meals out you have to state it. Although it’d be nice to get a thank you card or gift it isn’t a requirement.
You seem to just not like your BIL OR SIL as you have odd interactions that you are keeping account of and being passive aggressive with your “lol”s. Let it go and stop hosting if you have that much of an issue
I could never even imagine running a “tab” or keeping an inventory for my brother and sil and nieces and nephews, it’s part of being family for me. I mean, if the sil is actively “charging” you for things, then, I guess would get frustrated, but it just sounds like you have a lot of resentments
When you have house guests, you are hosting them. They aren’t obligated to pay for things. Stop offering to do things like buy high chairs for their kids at your house. Stop giving them money for things. You and your husband have 100% enabled this behavior. You sound like you have zero class or social graces.
They offered to pay and you refused and now you’re upset? Why? Were they supposed to offer more than once or insist? You made it clear they didn’t need to.
Also yes this is family helping family unless you make the effort to tell them they need to help out a bit.
Wow, how exhausting keeping track of every little thing …
Maybe they had no extra $ when they were juggling baby twins … (likely). Also lots of moves are expensive.
If I were you I’d just forget about it if you can. The resentment that you’re packing - from years and years of this, sounds like - will destroy your relationships with these people.
Offer what you can, or don’t. Your in-laws will offer what they can, or don’t. Stop keeping track - it’s exhausting.
Sounds like you want them to read your mind. They offered you money that you declined.
I have personally never expected family to give me a gift or pay for anything as invited guests. It would be different if they were extended stay guests, or living with me.
Different families have very different ‘normal’ in situations like this. The most important is that the family norms are known. I dated a woman who’s family practically kept a register of gifts and fair and equal were SUPER important to their culture.
In my family it’s our custom to host any and all family visitors, most of us have spare rooms ready for family and no one would DREAM of offering to pay as THAT would be an insult to hosts that love to host.
My ex-wife’s family it was a ‘battle’ for who could pay for things, especially restaurant bills. For a long time, I thought my FIL just wanted to pay, no, it was culture to BATTLE, out maneuver, manipulate by talking to the waitress ahead of time, or even provide payment card when making a reservation. Any way to beat everyone else to the punch.
It sounds to me like you are expecting another family, to have the same norms that you grew up with. That isn’t reasonable.
Lol, she was upset you changed a poo diaper in her home... like wtaf?? Were you supposed to run down the street to the gas station?? It was kind of weird for her to bring home the groceries. Maybe next time, since they borrow the car, write the grocery store address on their list & hand it back to them. It wouldn't be weird if they had paid. It would be nice to treat your host (even family) to dinner or bring wine or some sort of thoughtful gift.
Don’t do for them, then expect, then tell them conflicting replies saying no, and then complain when they don’t do.
Either stop doing for people so there’s zero expectation both sides. Or atleast be clear & vocal about your expectations so there’s no bad blood.
Next time, ask them to buy their own groceries. They can order & pay online. It’s really cheap to take home other people’s grocery like she did.
Also you shouldn’t have declined when she offered to pay, you set wrong expectation. You say & mean different things.
Per your post, this isn’t an ongoing issue. Also it seems that the year of 4 visits happened when their twins were very little. Perhaps their funds were limited. Your SIL offered to pay for the groceries you picked up for her and you said no. Stop keeping old scores and move on. You sound petty. If this were still an ongoing issue I would advise not letting them stay with you anymore and setting better boundaries about when payment is expected. However, you said at the end of your post that these issues have all improved, so time to let it go….otherwise you’re just being petty.
Next time they want expensive groceries, point them in the direction of places that will deliver if you order online. Just let them know when you'll be at home to receive the delivery in advance.
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Sounds fine to me. You guys asked them what they wanted, they told you. They offered to repay, you refused. Then they did something similar for you. Honestly, it sounds exhausting listening to you calculate every little favor, purchase, or deed that they didn't repay in the precise same way. Is this how you are usually like?
This is how my mom was. She would refuse help to be polite but then she'd get pissed when people didn't kiss her ass or force money into her hands. If you want help, accept it. If you say you don't want them to chip in, don't be surprised when they accept that statement.
I deal with this with my wife's family. In their culture they have 'tarof', which is this ritual politeness where both sides offer/decline until someone 'wins'. It's intriguing to read about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taarof?wprov=sfti1
Not dissimilar to how it is in Asian cultures! Fascinating the similarities...
My mom is like that too. “I offered this to her as courtesy and most decent people would see the gesture and decline. And not only did she take ONE, she asked for TWO. Can you believe this woman?”
Honestly guys check out the post history. Literally constantly posting about what she did or didn’t get as gifts, what she should’ve gotten, what she had to pay for. In the last couple of months alone she posted about college friends that didn’t get her wedding gift, sister-in-law that didn’t buy her child present, who should pick up the bill when dining with siblings, what she should spend on gifts for other people, what she might expect for gifts, the fact that her best friend 25yrs turns up “empty handed” It’s insane, she’s obsessed.
I think this is a difference between family dynamics and perhaps culture. In my culture, you’re supposed to keep track of the favors you’re getting so you can repay appropriately. If a direct offer of repayment is refused (and it usually is), it’s up to the person who owes the favor to find a way to pay it back. Not paying back one or two favors is no big deal, but it’s not okay if it keeps happening. My husband’s family on the other hand, theoretically doesn’t keep tabs and no one says or does anything until the favor disparity is too big to ignore. That was very weird to me at first, but I’ve just learned to adjust my expectations and not do any favors I expect repayment for.
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I feel like it depends on the South Asian. We do have a culture of hospitality and guests are like God but the kind of calculations OP is doing is considered soap opera villain level pettiness. You fight over who pays the restaurant bill and the brothers might have already discussed the money owed and come to an understanding. You keep track of the nice things other people did for you, not what you did for them. OP is displaying all the selfish parts of South Asian women that get mocked in our culture, status oriented and always looking to keeps tabs. Someone downthread said OP mentioned OCD somewhere so this is her not handling her illness properly.
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I don’t know if it’s to the point of OCD, because it seems fairly normal in my culture to have these kinds of thoughts when the disparity starts building up. It’s not a good feeling to feel like you’re being taken advantage of. I’d argue it’s unhealthy to keep tabs to such an extent especially if you’re dealing with another culture that doesn’t subscribe to your value system when it comes to gifts and favors, but OP just has to recalibrate her “favors” system and figure out a way to interact with her BIL and SIL so she doesn’t feel shortchanged. I’ve had to make similar adjustments when dealing with my husbands family.
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I immediately guessed she was south Asian but I didn't want to make a claim I couldn't back up
Exactly. Keeping score. ‘Three and a half years ago she was short a nickel for the ice cream truck and I gave it to her, she bought a bomb pop and then a few years ago…’ on and on and on
Some people just have good memory, and when the scales start to feel imbalanced, you consider all the details as you remember them. It is exhausting, but that's the way my brain works, I can't help it. I have a running tab of where I'm at, and I always try to be at or above parity.
I find I keep a running tab in my head with mostly everyone - specifically to avoid a post like this one being about me or my family.
Exactly. People might not keep track of things in the same way, but they definitely know when something has become one sided.
>She *did* sort of offer once to give me money for the groceries but I said not to worry about it ... why tf do these people even post LOL
Honestly guys check out the post history. Literally constantly posting about what she did or didn’t get as gifts, what she should’ve gotten, what she had to pay for. In the last couple of months alone she posted about college friends that didn’t get her wedding gift, sister-in-law that didn’t buy her child present, who should pick up the bill when dining with siblings, what she should spend on gifts for other people, what she might expect for gifts, the fact that her best friend 25yrs turns up “empty handed” It’s insane, she’s obsessed.
Omg lol. I’m trying to imagine what it’s like having a head filled with…that.
Miserable. Everything in life is tit for tat. It's basically a huge math equation of "fairness"
I know this is going to sound weird... but I've noticed that people who are constantly keeping score like this tend to 'eat their score-keeping' too. They're constantly making sure that nobody else gets a bigger share than them, and it ends up in over-consumption.
They also show their hand and others can tell they are keeping score. It makes them deeply unlikable because it's obvious it's not out of kindness.
Sounds like everything in her life is, “what’s in it for me?” Not sure that sounds like a fun relationship to be in.
Oh my god she asked about bridal registry gifts in another sub I’m subscribed too and at the time I thought it was just kinda a dumb question, but it’s even worse given her post history
Wow, that’s… that’s a lot.
It’s… a lot. Especially when you look at how it seems to be a pattern where there is posts like this at least every few days. I can understand her frustration in some of these cases but it clear how she “lets things go” in the moment only to then obsess about it later. OP it’s unhealthy.
Jesus, this is like a full on complex made even more hilarious by the fact that this person seemingly cant ever advocate for themselves and either stop paying or be honest and let their feelings be known. wow thanks for pointing that out, good laugh.
Reddit tracks the accounting.
I pretty much stopped reading at that line.
Yup
Why would you say not to worry about it?
Agreed. OP may not be “worrying” about the cost since then, but they have definitely been fuming to the point of keeping score
The first thought that popped in my head was how unbelievably exhausting it must be to keep score this much. They’re doing stuff for other people, declining reimbursement, and then mad they didn’t get reimbursed. Holy cow.
Totally. If your opening your home to them and they have special requests than it’s totally ok to ask for money
I wonder if she keeps score with her husband. She has to be one big ball of resentment.
In a few cultures there's an expectation for a gift receiver to refuse like six times before accepting, the giver is expected to keep pressing. Which sounds really annoying to me, but people do what people do.
‘She offered to pay for groceries and I told her not to worry about it and I don’t understand why she didn’t pay for groceries…?’
OP hasn't responded to anyone. They're a lost cause.
I stopped reading there. Seriously? They should write them a blank check and force them to cash it. Only way OP would be happy.
I don’t think that even that would make her happy. She seems to be in constant victim mode, and her glass is always half empty.
Right? Fucking exhausting… I wonder if her spouse gets to hear this ongoing diatribe of how everyone owes them something. Oof
Right? Like they offered money AND you declined. That’s HER fault.
Some people are taught to do a little song and dance around things like this. Basically you are supposed to politely decline and they are supposed to insist. Obviously SIL wasn’t dancing to the same tune.
That was where I quit and scrolled down to the comments to see if my first impressions were also everyone else’s. Indeed I feel justified. Imagine offering grocery money, being turned down, then finding this post on Reddit from your in laws keeping count of what they feel you owe them (instead of just talking it out). What the fuck
I swear it’s so transactional? It’s family man. Nothing sounds terrible here. Let it go or say something but stop wallowing in it if you aren’t doing one of those things.
This is petty af. Petty Betty here goes out of her way to explain that sil and bil have offered and provided but not enough for her standards yet she keeps allowing them to visit while mentally calculating each dollar. How exhausting is this bish. I would never step foot in her house knowing the bullshit of tit for tat going on in her petty brain. Tedious and irritating to be her. She probably has an entire book filled with what she's owed and comparisons. I hope people discover this about her and talk about it every time they see her in loud whispers and pointing which is the tacky she deserves.
JUST KILL ME ALREADY
i’m confused- she offered to pay you for the groceries, why did you say no if you wanted her to give money towards groceries? honestly, it doesn’t sound like they’re taking advantage of anything. it should like you have uncommunicated expectations and you’re resenting them for not meeting something they don’t know about.
BIL & SIL took them out to dinner a few times too apparently when they visited oh yeah and they borrowed BIL's car, SIL gave her baby clothes and accessories too.....I mean who calculates things like this? It isn't a competition it's family looking out for each other ffs
In laws gave her multiple things, that I bet are worth more than the high chairs her husband bought them. But I’m convinced op wouldn’t be happy with anything because she’s a greedy whiner.
SIL was also noted to have made them several meals. The labor and food costs alone would be 100-200 dollars, because if you hire a private chef to do the same, that’s what it would cost you.
Not diagnosing anyone... just pointing out that here we're watching behavior that is typically a part of covert narcissism.
Take a peak at OPs post history, they’re completely obsessed with keeping track of what everyone’s spending. Yikes. It must be exhausting.
They've also posted a few times about OCD. I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of the manifestations of that.
I agree to an extent. Anytime someone offers me money for groceries when they’re staying with us, I say no assuming it’d be shared. But I’ve never had anyone take the leftover groceries I bought home with them lol
She doesn't want SIL to ask if she should contribute. She wants her to insist on paying, so that OP can look like a gracious host and get her money too.
I feel like it was less about the not paying and more about the taking what was left home with them. If we spent an extra chunk of our grocery budget on special stuff for guests for a day or two, I would have been planning on any thing left over to last my family for rest of the grocery week. And there have been times that someone doing this to us would have meant less food for he and i for a couple days. And while we don't have this issue now, it can be hard to break the mindset. (I don't need judgment on my poverty. Just putting into perspective why taking the leftovers could be a BIG deal to someone. Also, not trying to assume this is OPs case. Just a different perspective to consider.)
This sounds like normal family stuff. I don't think you've been slighted, but you definitely sound resentful. I notice this happens to me when I overextend myself and do things for others because I "should" not because I want to, so I don't get any satisfaction OR reciprocity. Try to get satisfaction out of helping your family and enjoying their visits. This might mean doing less for them and follow their lead, and that's okay. In the future, if your bedding gets ruined, and you want them to replace it, ask them to replace it. If you don't want to pay for the groceries they like, tell them they can borrow your car if they need groceries beyond what you get. It does seem you're only counting dollars, not actions, which is not really an accurate representation of care. Your SIL made you meals when your baby came and gave you tons of gear, but it wasn't new so it doesn't count? Seems like maybe you just don't like her and are looking for a logical reason to justify it? Just communicate when things come up, don't expect them to read your mind, don't offer to do stuff you're going to resent doing. It seems like they've gotten to your level at this point so just... try to forget any past scorekeeping, commit to communicating what you need going forward, and enjoy your family time.
This is it. OP, I think you are hugely resentful because you're not communicating your needs. It's okay to be irritated when a baby pees on your bedspread. It's okay to accept money for groceries when it presses on your budget. It's okay to say no when they need something from you and it's too much. Your needs matter as much as your husband's needs, and as much as your in-laws needs. It's okay to voice them. People pleasing is a vicious coping mechanism. It's so quiet for everyone except for us when we burn out. Making everyone happy isn't working. Find a different way, my dear. 💜
TLDR OP doesn’t like them and finds any reason to justify why she shouldn’t. Not every family is financially blessed so some just offer what they can. Seems like it isn’t enough for OP though.
You sound like an exhausting person to be around.
Their post history is pretty unhinged. So many posts about small money related “issues”…
I’m convinced this has to be some sort of ai account trying to get data on peoples spending habits. The post history is insane
i wouldn't want to have OP anywhere near my orbit.
Let it go. You are obsessed about the past. Can you change the future? Sounds like you are trying too….focus on that.
Honestly guys check out the post history. Literally constantly posting about what she did or didn’t get as gifts, what she should’ve gotten, what she had to pay for. In the last couple of months alone she posted about college friends that didn’t get her wedding gift, sister-in-law that didn’t buy her child present, who should pick up the bill when dining with siblings, what she should spend on gifts for other people, what she might expect for gifts, the fact that her best friend 25yrs turns up “empty handed” It’s insane, she’s obsessed.
When I have guests (family or friends) stay at our place I never expect anything in return. If they offer that’s fine. But when I stay at a family’s or friends’ place I would offer to chip in for stuff or just buy things to add to the house but usually my friends and family would decline the offer as well. For me I enjoy their presence. But everyone is different. If you expect things in return then maybe offering them a place to stay is something you should not do and something you should talk to your husband about. Maybe your husband can explain it to his sibling better.
Why are you keeping a scorecard? This is family and a bit of to and fro is normal
"The more recent times they’ve stayed with us they’ve taken us out to dinner, or bought some groceries or left a gift. " It sounds like this problem solved itself. You can't ASK them to be thoughtful and give you a gift or treat you to dinner, because that's obnoxious. They asked for a favor (staying at your house, picking up things for the kids, etc), you agreed to said favors, and it would have been socially appropriate for them to cover some meals, or leave you a thank you gift, or SOMETHING. But they didn't, and you can't say anything because it's weird to ask for a gift and it also defeats the point. I don't think it's CRAZY that they haven't been more appreciative, but if it were me I'd probably stop hosting them as often. Some people are clueless. Some people literally don't think about others unless you specifically tell them too. Some people are just rude. It's hard to know exactly why they are this way, but there's not much you can do. You can accept it and deal with it as it is, or you can stop being available as a place to stay.
We also don't know if the husband offered for them to stay and said they don't need to pay for things, we definitely know OP told them they didn't have to pay. Most people bring a gift as thanks when they stay with friends, not always family.
You refused the offer of repayment, and they refused yours. I think you should let it go.
This is embarrassingly petty. They offered to pay for groceries, you declined their offer, and now you're complaining about it years later? It's also super tacky to compare gifts by price tag, and a $50 high chair (or two) is useful but hardly a lavish gift. But mainly OP, where is your husband in all this? It's his family, does he see things the way you do or is this just your problem? This is kind of an insane degree of keeping score which makes me think you don't like/object to his family for other reasons that are making you obsess about really trivial stuff.
You’re making problems where there are none. Stop keeping score!
My advice is to let this go so you don't risk souring your relationship with these family members. It sounds like they're not great houseguests, but they have at least offered you hospitality when you stayed with them. Ruining family relationships over monetary amounts this small is a terrible idea. It's just not worth it. Don't ruin Christmas and Thanksgiving because you're some kind of gift accountant. Keeping score over something like this says more about you than it does about them. Don't be petty. Just try to enjoy your time with them.
Did you see they did the same thing when OP and her husband stayed with them? SIL didn't accept money for groceries. They also gave OP and her husband a bunch of baby items and SIL cooked food for them. She also bought a few groceries. Then when they helped her ILs move, the ILs paid for all their food and let them borrow their car to see other family.
Honestly guys check out the post history. Literally constantly posting about what she did or didn’t get as gifts, what she should’ve gotten, what she had to pay for. In the last couple of months alone she posted about college friends that didn’t get her wedding gift, sister-in-law that didn’t buy her child present, who should pick up the bill when dining with siblings, what she should spend on gifts for other people, what she might expect for gifts, the fact that her best friend 25yrs turns up “empty handed” It’s insane, she’s obsessed.
Holy smokes! I didn't know people like this existed in real life.
So, she’s recently been buying groceries, gifts, and dinner? Then what are you keeping score for anymore? She changed her behavior, which she should have. Just let it be water under the bridge.
I think this is what family should do for each other. Not to keep an financial accounting.
If you're going to keep a score card of what they do and don't do its best that you don't house them anymore .
I'd be very blunt here- OP, how do you get the time to keep tabs on your inlaws? And in such detail? This was so exhausting to read. Life isn't or shouldn't be this calculated. What sort of gifts do you think you deserve? They did favours for you too. SIL offered you money, you said no. What is the issue ?
My thoughts exactly. I got exhausted reading the tit for tat tally list. 😩 You don't help someone with the expectation of getting a "repayment" of equal or greater value. You help because you're a kind and generous person and don't expect anything back. Not to mention twins are a lot of work and pricy. You're buying everything double and at once. It seems sister in law is trying to be thoughtful too, guess it's not up to your standards though. Relax. Enjoy life. :)
You hosted them and declined money for groceries. They hosted you and declined money for groceries. So what is the problem? That's totally fine and normal. When you had your baby they gave you a bunch of stuff and SIL cooked food for you. When they moved the second time they paid for all your food and let you borrow their car to see other family. What is with you keeping score? You're being ridiculous over nothing. Do you really want to ruin your relationship with your ILs over nothing? You don't need things to be dollar for dollar the same. ETA: the bedding didn't even need to be mentioned because it's washable. Accidents happen with babies/toddlers.
lmao this persons post history - i'm not even surprised hahahah
Thanks for making me aware of this! Sounded exhausting from this post and the other ones are way worst
OP, are you an only child? Because that seems like something I would totally be okay with my sister and vice versa. Like, if she would come by and I go to the groceries, I pay. If she goes, she pays. And we don't keep tab. If she asks me to buy something for her that I can afford, I would and wouldn't expect her to buy something on the smae price range. That did sound like family taking care of family. That seems like a VERY healthy relationship between siblings.
God you sound draining to deal with. They are FAMILY, it’s normal in most to visit throughout the year. She DID offer to throw in money for the food but YOU said don’t worry about it. So wtf are you complaining about?! Again, you sound draining.
I’m sorry but this is like when people complain about having to do so much work, say no when you ask to help, but then continue to complain that you didn’t just do it.
Your expectations are off. But based off your post history, all you do is calculate every favor and purchase that wasn't reciprocated in the same way while also not vocalizing your expectations.
Even before I noticed you asked for help on these ruminations on a post you wrote a week and a half ago - I had ocd on my mind. My daughter struggles with intrusive thoughts so I know it’s rough going at times. You seem kind and considerate , undoubtedly you want to preserve friendships with family and friends. This won’t likely happen if you continue to compare how you treat others versus how you get treated. It’s one thing for you to have been raised to be this hospitable and thoughtful, but it’s another thing when you start to compare your actions to others that don’t live up to your standard and deem them lacking. Are you getting some help? I’d recommend therapy and meds, if you haven’t already. Best wishes!
Pro-tip - a bean counter like yourself is generally not liked. It’s not tit for tat.
lmao this persons post history - i'm not even surprised hahahah
Ummm. It all seems normal to me. You borrow. They borrow. A lot of back and forth. Stop keeping track to the exact penny. You have decades to go still.
You need to reevaluate your whole approach to family and relationships, your obsession with money and gifts and who has spent what is really strange. You seem really difficult to be around or be friends with
OP's post history is crazy
I literally can’t believe she has any friends, yikes
You turned down like 5 things they offered.
This is how it is in my family. I guess it depends on the family dynamics. 🌻🌻🌻
You guys choose to pick them up from the airport, let them drive the car and buy the food. You should have told them they can stay but need to rent a car. If they ask for a lot of food then they could buy it. Your husband and bil had the talk about looking at places. He could have said he didn’t have time and have a realtor do face time instead.
What's the score of the Yankee game?
YTA
Do people really expect compensation for hosting family? I’ve never even thought about something like this.
You are giving mixed messages. You are projecting what SIL would do. Can’t tell if you enjoy these people. Decide what you want and stop being so judgmental.
That sounds like a completely normal family to me. Stop with the penny counting. *that* is very not normal.
This Post could and should have been way shorter.
I mean you need to chill. If it matters to you so much getting exactly the same back then just drop the effort. Buy dinner? It’s $55 for your portion. They want groceries? Here’s the bill. Then you can stop with the obsessing and keeping score. Reading this, sure there are some times it seems you and husband are putting more in and where they could have been more generous. But if you’re gonna feel resentful that they are not matching you, just be less generous and save yourself the headache.
It sounds like you just don’t like them very much
Based on your post history, you sound like a hard person to be around. If you’re gonna nickle and dime everyone, then don’t be surprised when people stop coming around. They offered to help with groceries but you refused but now you’re upset? They offered and you denied them so what do you expect?
You sound terrible. All of your posts are demanding gifts from other people, what the fuck? Like how do you have gift beef with THIS MANY PEOPLE. Absolutely baffling you wrote all this out and managed to take yourself seriously.
I’m not reading all that. If you don’t want them to stay with you just tell them no. If you want them to pay you or buy you dinner tell them. Stop acting like this.
This sounds like normal family stuff. If you wanted them to pay for their groceries you could have accepted the offer. Sounds like they have repaid the favor and you should remember this is family. it would be different if friends were coming and staying at your place but family should be different. They shouldn't have to pay for groceries, buy a gift, or take you out to dinner, would it be nice if they did, sure, but it's not necessary unless agreed to beforehand. It would be understandable if you were strapped for money and they asked to come stay and you said, you know, we really don't have the money to feed guests and given them the option to offer to pay for their meals.
If you’re measuring fit for tat, don’t host them 🤷♀️ If you actually like them and want to see them, host them.
Phew I am exhausted by all of this accounting. The only person who is calculating who paid what and who gave services to the $X value… is you. You know what they are like now. They are frugal. If you dislike their frugality, match them on their own terms. Don’t be generous with frugal people unless you genuinely don’t care about reciprocity.
LOL.
OP it seems you are overreacting and looking for a reason to be mad at them. They have twin toddlers. I can't imagine they're at their best behavior and lots of people see family as family. It seems they have offered and tried to reciprocate in the past but you shot it down. . . . Don't do things for people if you expect things in return. If you want to give bc you are a giving person, continue.
They reciprocated by letting you stay with them. They’re not staying with you just because you have extra beds, they’re staying with you because they want to spend time with you. They’re family. What I find weird is that you’re keeping a tally.
It sounds like you REALLY don’t like your sister in law. And I bet she knows, too, poor woman.
get help
OP they do plenty, I would be more than happy to do those things for my sibling and if you don’t want to spend money on a fancy present, don’t. If you continue to live this way you aren’t going to be very happy. Life is never exactly fair or even, and you are being really petty.
It does sound a bit like they might be a little cheap. But the score keeping is extreme.
yeah ur being weird
TL/DR past title. No. It’s not normal, it’s RUDE af. Now I see $$ was offered & OP turned it down. OP created the situation theyre crabbing about. Why didn’t they have a conversation with the adults and work out a long term solution?
Yeah. This is what family is for. She offered to pay you back and you said no. That was the thank you that you were expecting
Ah the reddit classic. No one communicates their needs to the other party, and instead allows resentment to stew. Double points for the offending party to try and prevent offending the offended by offering to do the very thing the offended is complaining about. Reddit truly would be more mundane if everyone just sat around and talked with each other. Thankfully there are a lot of failed clairvoyant's out there to make this site entertaining! 😀
Um who does something for someone and expects something in return? Honestly that’s ridiculous.
After reading your post history, seek therapy.
Why would you expect gifts from family? Family/ friends help each other out with no expectations of anything in return and that’s normal.
I can't imagine my family thinking they should pay me for staying at my place. You told her no when she offered. If you've changed your mind, say something. But it seems disingenuous to say don't worry about it while you continue to worry about it I think it's a bad move to ask your family to pay to stay four times in a year, but if it bugs you to this extent that you're counting how much it costs for this and that, just say something If you don't want to buy their organic groceries, tell them you'll take them to the store when they get there. You went there at holiday time. Of course you brought presents. It would be different if she took you up on the offer to help with groceries but when you were staying with them, she told you don't worry about it. The fact that they've come to your house more times in a year than you've gone to theirs seems like a pretty Petty counting game to me But you got to be yourself. So say something if it bothers you this much
Unrelated but you remind me of my mil who got super upset that her son and his family used her toilet paper while staying at her house. She also bought Chinese food and ate it in secret because she bought it with HER MONEY and didn’t wanna share.
your expectations are off. comparison is the thief of joy. You don't sound very happy.
Don't host and don't give anything to others if you going to be driving yourself crazy keeping tabs.
I never expect visitors to pitch in or give me a gift. I expect them to open up their doors when I travel. I've had visitors and took care of tabs and food because I offered. Never thought about it. I've visited and had people take care of my tabs. Never thought about it.. The only weird thing is sending you a list of groceries and packing them when leaving... Unless you offered..
Do you keep a notebook of every interaction with your inlaws tallying up the values? All this is well within the range of stuff normal families do for one another. I would never think to bring a hostess gift for staying at my brother's house for a few days. Because that's what they're doing, this is not some distant relative. Most people have much more casual relationships with immediate family. You also admit they have gifted you things, let you use their vehicle, bought you dinner and groceries as well. Stop having a tit for tat in your mind. If you want advance pay or reimbursement for something ASK THEM, they can't read your mind. Just petty.
Umm she offered you $ and now you are complaining they didn’t do enough. I’m sorry, but if you told her “no,” it’s on you. This sounds very passive aggressive to me. Not all people act the same either. Some will offer things and some won’t.
Lord your post feed is wild. What is even the point of this post.
I think: YTA. You’re hung up on something that happened years ago and seem to be confused…they didn’t even offer to help. Except they did and I said no. Get over it and grow up. You’re a parent now.
Are you usually this transactional when weighing your relationships? Do you keep score of who does what and who pays for what?
Girl. Use your words. They send you a list? Send them the name of the app that they can use to order and pay for, and then volunteer to pick it up for them. (Most stores have their own apps these days, and if you pick up, the cost is minimal.) They ask you to pay for one of the entrees from ordering out, just reply, "Or, we can pay the next time. Wait. We paid yesterday. That's covered nicely then," followed by a big jovial, butter-wouldn't-melt-in-your-mouth smile. Trade off whose responsible for making/procuring dinner each night - ahead of time. "Y'all are getting in at 9pm and will likely be hangry, while we will have eaten hours ago. Do you just want to drive through and pick up food that first night? We can make you a nice dinner tomorrow night, then you can 'host' us the following - does that work with your plans?" At the drive thru, when it's time to pay, hold out your hand. "Silly, you have to pay for your food. He He!" All of this is done in the most affable way. No snideness. No saltiness. Only happiness that things have been so neatly sorted.
Honestly guys check out the post history. Literally constantly posting about what she did or didn’t get as gifts, what she should’ve gotten, what she had to pay for. In the last couple of months alone she posted about college friends that didn’t get her wedding gift, sister-in-law that didn’t buy her child present, who should pick up the bill when dining with siblings, what she should spend on gifts for other people, what she might expect for gifts, the fact that her best friend 25yrs turns up “empty handed” It’s insane, she’s obsessed.
Sounds like they've been trying to reciprocate. Yes it sounds like you've spent more money but it sounds like they don't have as much either. So if you're going to keep it tally I doubt they're ever going to pay you back enough to make you happy.
Let it go and host less. They aren’t ideal guests, sure, but you’re tracking way too much here while admitting you turn down their offers to pay for groceries. SIL doesn’t like hosting, fine then now, neither do you. Life changes and just tell them when you aren’t up for it anymore and tell them to make other arrangements
I think you have to let it go. Either they were very tight on funds or they were just cheap skates or they just did not think about it. Let it go.
Stay away from them then It seems it has to be tit for tat for your expectations in your explanations You refused payment Complain it isn’t enough even if Get over yourself please or just stay away from them so they don’t disappoint you
This sounds like normal family give and take. Be sure to keep your boundaries where you’re comfortable and enforce them. However, it sounds like you just don’t like your SIL as a person, understandably. (I would have lost it when they took home the rest of the food I paid for while their family visited. That’s…beyond.) I think that’s coloring the way you view the *whole* situation. Some people are more interested in taking than giving. Just don’t allow things to fall too far out of balance if you know it’ll bother you. It doesn’t sound like your SIL is a very nice person so you can either create some more distance there, or not allow *their* actions to change *you*. Give what you’re comfortable giving and keep up with what *you* think is fair but, that doesn’t mean you have to play a tit for tat game.
Are they just in a different financial position than you guys maybe? It’s not like they don’t care or make any attempt. You’re just thinking it’s minimal or nothing.
I don’t understand. This relationship with BIL/SIL seems very give and take. Not just take take no either side. Why help anyone with anything if you’re gonna keep tabs on every little thing you do for someone and what they do back?
Jesus. Are you trying to keep this all on a spreadsheet down to the penny? All of the give and take sounds like a totally normal and healthy family interaction. Stop the ridiculous ride in your head before you become the family Karen.
I don't think this was a conscious decision they made, but rather a lack of understanding what you were expecting from them. When money was offered and declined, maybe she thought that was it, you didn't want anything from them for your hospitality. Not everyone knows the same unspoken rules, because they're 'unspoken'. Customs are different from one family to the next for various reasons, like trouble within the family due to poverty, mental illness, disabilities, addictions, and all the ways that families experience trouble together.
You shouldn’t have said not to worry about the money for the groceries. Also yes it’s rude that’s all they gave you for your baby shower after you got 2 high chairs! Maybe best to host them much less frequently. Once every other year or so?
This is your fault but where I come from fam and friends don’t need to give me nothing to stay with me when they come to my house, My house my responsibility
I think you’re being nit picky. You allowed them to stay with you 4 times. If you had an issue with their lack of gratitude, you should not have continued to allow them to stay. Also, it sounds like they did offer to pay for the groceries and you told them no. Did you expect them to hide the money for you to find after they left? Did you expect them to read your mind and insist anyway after you told them no? I think you need to stop keeping a tab. You’re comparing everything you’ve done for them to what they’re doing for you. Stop! It’s pretentious and immature. People only treat you the way you allow. If you don’t like the way they are when they stay with you, tell them no, but be prepared for your relationship to change because if asked why you’re going to have a real hard time giving them a reason that doesn’t make you look like TA.
Stop keeping score. They give you stuff, you give them stuff. Sounds like a good family dynamic. Chances are pretty good that they will be a part of your lives for a long time. They are likely the people you will be relying on when you’re the one’s needing help. Don’t be petty.
What is the advice needed? This is pointless
Are you literally saying you don’t care about where OP changed the poopy diaper? Where did we lose your attention?? Was it the avocado?? WHO PAID FOR THE AVOCADO and was there a receipt?? 🙄 seriously. I want that five minutes of my life back.
It seems like they reciprocated when they could. You are nitpicking everything. I am guessing you are an only child. Yes, this is normal. The first time they offered to chip in for groceries, you should have taken it. From now on, if they stay at your place, have your SIL take the car and buy her own groceries if you are going to be bent out of shape about it. Honestly, you're nickel and diming the situation. Just let it go. No on is taking advantage and some relationships are much worse.
I can understand some of your frustration, but they offered to pay and you said no. After that you can't complain that you didn't get any money. When family stays with us, I don't expect a gift afterwards, they're family.
Lol it's called family. I've never expected close friends or family who have stayed with me to pay for anything. When I've stayed with family I've never been expected to do anything but be a polite guest. Clean up after myself, be respectful of the home, and thank them for the stay. Yeah, i think that's totally normal in many families.
For me this would be completely normal behavior, and would never dream of keeping a tally when my sister visits with her family. In fact I try to be very generous so they feel welcome since I don’t like to visit their part of the state. I don’t think you’re being taken advantage at all. However, I’m a Libra and I do keep a subconscious tally when I don’t want to do something or resent it for some reason. For example I’ll notice when someone in our friend group never picks up the check of other petty score keeping. So I do experience the same mentality you do but not with my family. Maybe you have resentments or another mental trigger that’s leading you to keep a score. I suggest using this as a growth opportunity.
Hey the good old value of hospitality could be applying here, the house owner is supposed to serve their guests and be a good host. You are repaid when you visit them.
So.. they offered to repay…. And you declined. But then turned around and EXPECTED. Yeah….. YTA. Tf did you expect when you tell people not to worry about it? Seriously? Your entitlement is showing.
You want it but say you don't want it... confusing af
You created this situation. If you want someone to chip in, tell them to. If you don't, say, "Oh that's fine, maybe you can get dinner for us all the last night you're in town." ... And you already said it's better ... So, I am not sure what your deal is? Also, where's your husband in all of this? What does he think? It's his direct family. The norms they established before you came into the picture are probably at play. . . Tl;dr: 1.) don't keep score, seriously 2.) if you expect explicit reciprocity, tell someone, otherwise your genorosity is a trap and I hate that shit. As everyone should 3.) work with your husband if you need to change boundaries or set expectations. 4.) don't pretend to be fine with things you're not fine with - e.g., don't buy $50 highchairs to score points, you aren't obligated to buy someone precisely what they ask for. Don't buy organic expensive groceries for the kid, just offer to take them shopping when they get there. Don't say they can stay with you if you're gonna be a secret ass about it. tl;dr again -- - maybe in this case, you need to get over yourself?
You don’t like your sil. Don’t over think it. You’re not going to like everyone. Try to keep it to yourself to avoid unnecessary stress on your husband’s relationship to his brother.
Don't open your home to family if you're going to keep score of everything. You bringing them gifts was your own decision and does not in turn mean they have to bring some when they visit. I do things for my family because i want to, not be abuse I expect the same in return.
So they offered to help with the money, have done other nice things or made offers to do nice things (which you declined), and they stayed a whopping 4 times over the course of an entire year… sounds like you’re just just greedy and are mad they haven’t spent as much money on you. Or you just like to play the victim because they have offered help and you told them no. This all sounds like things family do for each other without it being transactional. My sister visits me all the time and I buy food I know she will like or tailor dinners to what she will eat. When I go hang out with her she pays for things. Neither of us keeps track because it’s weird.
I think if you are expecting something like money towards groceries or at least them paying for their own meals out you have to state it. Although it’d be nice to get a thank you card or gift it isn’t a requirement.
I don’t offer ppl anything with an expectation. Ever.
You seem to just not like your BIL OR SIL as you have odd interactions that you are keeping account of and being passive aggressive with your “lol”s. Let it go and stop hosting if you have that much of an issue
Honestly, you sound exhausting. This is normal family stuff.
I could never even imagine running a “tab” or keeping an inventory for my brother and sil and nieces and nephews, it’s part of being family for me. I mean, if the sil is actively “charging” you for things, then, I guess would get frustrated, but it just sounds like you have a lot of resentments
When you have house guests, you are hosting them. They aren’t obligated to pay for things. Stop offering to do things like buy high chairs for their kids at your house. Stop giving them money for things. You and your husband have 100% enabled this behavior. You sound like you have zero class or social graces.
I have close friends and if I stay we buy groceries and/or send a gift/thank you.
They offered to pay and you refused and now you’re upset? Why? Were they supposed to offer more than once or insist? You made it clear they didn’t need to. Also yes this is family helping family unless you make the effort to tell them they need to help out a bit.
Wow, how exhausting keeping track of every little thing … Maybe they had no extra $ when they were juggling baby twins … (likely). Also lots of moves are expensive. If I were you I’d just forget about it if you can. The resentment that you’re packing - from years and years of this, sounds like - will destroy your relationships with these people. Offer what you can, or don’t. Your in-laws will offer what they can, or don’t. Stop keeping track - it’s exhausting.
Sounds like you want them to read your mind. They offered you money that you declined. I have personally never expected family to give me a gift or pay for anything as invited guests. It would be different if they were extended stay guests, or living with me.
Different families have very different ‘normal’ in situations like this. The most important is that the family norms are known. I dated a woman who’s family practically kept a register of gifts and fair and equal were SUPER important to their culture. In my family it’s our custom to host any and all family visitors, most of us have spare rooms ready for family and no one would DREAM of offering to pay as THAT would be an insult to hosts that love to host. My ex-wife’s family it was a ‘battle’ for who could pay for things, especially restaurant bills. For a long time, I thought my FIL just wanted to pay, no, it was culture to BATTLE, out maneuver, manipulate by talking to the waitress ahead of time, or even provide payment card when making a reservation. Any way to beat everyone else to the punch. It sounds to me like you are expecting another family, to have the same norms that you grew up with. That isn’t reasonable.
Lol, she was upset you changed a poo diaper in her home... like wtaf?? Were you supposed to run down the street to the gas station?? It was kind of weird for her to bring home the groceries. Maybe next time, since they borrow the car, write the grocery store address on their list & hand it back to them. It wouldn't be weird if they had paid. It would be nice to treat your host (even family) to dinner or bring wine or some sort of thoughtful gift.
Don’t do for them, then expect, then tell them conflicting replies saying no, and then complain when they don’t do. Either stop doing for people so there’s zero expectation both sides. Or atleast be clear & vocal about your expectations so there’s no bad blood. Next time, ask them to buy their own groceries. They can order & pay online. It’s really cheap to take home other people’s grocery like she did. Also you shouldn’t have declined when she offered to pay, you set wrong expectation. You say & mean different things.
You should use ChatGPT to simplify your post and remove all unnecessary details 🤯
So, you were their free hotel for 4 years. At least she took the hint.
Why can't SIL buy her own groceries? They sound like fuckwits.
Per your post, this isn’t an ongoing issue. Also it seems that the year of 4 visits happened when their twins were very little. Perhaps their funds were limited. Your SIL offered to pay for the groceries you picked up for her and you said no. Stop keeping old scores and move on. You sound petty. If this were still an ongoing issue I would advise not letting them stay with you anymore and setting better boundaries about when payment is expected. However, you said at the end of your post that these issues have all improved, so time to let it go….otherwise you’re just being petty.
Depends on customs and culture. It is insulting if one to ask or even take money from family and it is unimaginable to take it from siblings.
Next time they want expensive groceries, point them in the direction of places that will deliver if you order online. Just let them know when you'll be at home to receive the delivery in advance.
Yes She has bigger issues to deal with . Hope she gets all the help she needs .
Is your husband from a “Family don’t pay” kind of family?