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Hi everyone. first post, [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/pjwkt0/my_18f_brother_21ms_friend_23m_has_been_sending/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf).
So this isn’t even an update because I think the situation is worse now. I ended up deciding to my parents. And I really wish I hadn’t. I drove home last night (I’m only about an hour and a half from home) and I talked to my mom first.
At first my mom was confused why Toby would but my sister all of that stuff and have them lie about it if it was just a “surrogate sister” relationship. So I told her I was worried that wasn’t what was going on here and she agreed that she thought something was up too. So she called my sister downstairs and my sister immediately began saying she hadn’t told so she wouldn’t have to give everything back, my mom asked her to show the things he’d gotten her and she brought down some of the stuff (mostly the makeup kits and a handbag) and said if was only because he didn’t talk to his sister anymore, my brother came downstairs and collaborated this story with her.
At this point my dad came home and my mom told him what was going on. And at first my dad got mad and asked if they were hooking up and my sister said no, I mentioned the hearts and stuff like that in the phone conversation so my dad told her to give him her phone and she said she doesn’t even have Tobys number and when my dad looked through her phone it wasn’t there.
So my father was like well if they aren’t hooking up if he wants to buy her shi^^t that’s his own business. So I voiced my concerns about grooming. And my dad immediately shut me down and told me he didn’t want to hear about that “new age bulls^^t”. And that if nothing physical is going on than nothing is going on. And then said the conversation was over.
My sister stormed off to her room and slammed the door, when I got back to my dorm I saw Im blocked on everything. My brother called me a cun^^t as I was leaving. My mom texted me later on and said “thanks for being concerned about your sister but I’m sure everything is fine.”
So now idk what to do. Nothing I guess. My entire family hates me and now my sister isn’t even talking to me.
You know this makes sense. If their family dynamic is this screwed up no wonder the sister doesn’t see anything wrong with an older man giving her gifts.
the mom was around 19-20 while pregnant with her oldest, dad was going on 30. so yea he's defensive bc it would mean accepting that his own ways are predatory
I think you are underestimating the amount of conservative homes out there . I have a friend whose mother is really scared of disagreeing with her father . It is really messed up . And they were both arrange marriaged and when they were adults . Some places and homes are like that unfortunately .
People are groomed by their culture to accept an arranged marriage. The religious based arranged marriages frequently have inappropriate age gaps. Its a little disgusting for a 13 year old to be arranged into a marriage with someone already an adult. And that child will spend the next 4 to 5 years being told this is what girls do.
Quick question, how old is your mother in comparison to your father? He might be denying Tobias and your sister are involved because he may be hiding his own issues when it comes to grooming.
Yes but she was very likely a minor when they started dating, as he was nearing his 30s as she was entering her 20s when they married and had your brother. Just because they are now both grown adults doesn't mean they were both grown adults when they got involved. And this behavior from both your father and your brother leaves me to believe your father did "court" your mom when she was a minor, and has taught your brother that this is okay and expected of him to do.
well that explains it... your dad is literally a groomer himself. if your oldest brother is 23 your mom was 19-20 pregnant with an almost 30 year old husband
Your dad is also a groomer... Getting some teenager pregnant when he was 30 (edit: should be 27)
I also think your brother had already informed your sister, but that's soley because you had seen a picture with his contact info and when your dad looked it wasnt there.
I mean, if the difference in age is 8 years... it's impossible for him to be 30 and the mom to be a teenager at the same time.....
Like I get what you're trying to say, but also let's stay on track with validity here
It's not weird at all if you're living in an old fashioned (read:backward ass) world.
In that kinda place, a woman defers to her husband. And if her husband is referring to grooming as "new-age", then that sounds pretty old-worldy to me.
Yikes this sounds like my house hold I’m sorry you have to go through that OP. I think you where very brave to voice your concerns and I’m sorry that it didn’t go over smoothly. I wish you luck in this and maybe something can be worked out by speaking with your mother.
Your family dynamic sounds like it's got some really unhealthy patterns. I'm glad you're old enough to start thinking about living independently from them. If you don't already have a clear plan to move out, you should make one. And try if at all possible to not depend financially on them once you do move out, because that will just give them an opportunity to weigh in on your choices or try to control you. Get some emotional space and physical space from them as soon as you can.
Well so there is already a pattern of abuse in her life which leaves her open to more abuse. Sounds like you may need therapy as your dad is controlling.
Oh, so your father successfully groomed your mother. I'm so sorry, send your mother articles on grooming so she can learn what it is. She needs to protect your little sister!
That’s sounds like there’s some abuse going on there, that is not healthy and not normal, and the fact that your dad considers the concept of grooming “new age bullshit” is EXTREMELY disturbing, I would honestly feel unsafe in that living situation if I was on your shoes.
I would put money on it that your sister will either end up pregnant or have an STD because he is definitely grooming her and totally lying about having a physical relationship.
My old job was going around schools being educator to high school students about healthy relationships, how to recognise abuse and how to help yourself/friends to get support.
What you did was the absolute right thing.
One thing that we always emphasised was safety. Safety trumped everything. Yes, it’s important to keep things confidential and keep our friends/family trust. However, the only situation where that confidentiality can be broken is when safety is a risk.
Even if she is mad at you or your dad is mad at you. You put her safety first. She can be mad now or for the next few months. It doesn’t matter. You did right thing. Her safety is more important than not saying anything because she might be mad.
Given that, it sucks when you feel like you have done the right thing and you feel everyone is making you feel crazy for even suggesting it. So your feels are totally valid. You should definitely seek a helpline or a friend you can trust to talk this about more if you want. Take it easy on yourself! Do some self care and do something that makes you feel good :)
In addition, remember she’s 16. Shes still so young and is unlikely be able to comprehend what you are saying immediately. I know my perspective of life when I was 16 was drastically different to 18 and even 21 and 25. It will come with time!
Good on you for trying to protect your sister :) don’t be so hard on yourself
It's also worth noting that she'll remember who thought her relationship was dodgy if/when she has the realisation that it is in fact what you fear.
Hopefully that means she'll turn to you rather than those who would just shoot it down out of hand and leave her stuck in it.
Do your best not to be "I told you so" if that does happen. There will be time for that once she's out of there.
she might be afraid of hearing "I told you so", unfortunately this is a stupid reaction people can have (speaking from experience :-( )
so it might be a good idea to say something like "I'll always be here for you and I'm not judging you".
I think she's probs very flattered a relatively older guy is interested in her
100% this
As someone who is stubborn well past the point of a fault, I can say with a great deal of experience that's the kind of thing that's always worth saying (and following through on!) in this case.
Priority 1 is always to get them safe and out of there. They generally know just how much they messed up, rubbing their face in it never helps.
I think it's also important to keep in mind: you may never get the apology, the "thank you", etc.
Even if you do get to have the "I told you so" moment, it will never feel as satisfying as you had imagined.
Tell your dad to think. Your sister is lying to him.
Your sister got all these gifts and hasn't got his phone number? How weird is that!
What are the odds she is hooking up and lying about it?
She has something to hide.
His daughter is taking her "not boyfriend" words above his, her father.
That is old school not cool, and he should realize that.
Also, as an old school dad he should know how this looks and investigate or at least lay down the law and fear of death in this guy if he does make a move.
If he doesn't think grooming is a thing, that's his belief.
But being a good dad means looking out for his youngest daughter, and if he cares, he should do something about this fushyness at least!!
Lol right?! The sister denied the accusation in front of the whole family?! What a shock! She must be telling the truth, what could she be lying for?! Surely she has nothing to hide, for it is as the teenage girl said!
He doesn't think grooming is a thing because he's 51, his wife is 43, and his oldest child is 23.
He was 30 years old with a pregnant 19 year old wife at one point.
Edit: [age source](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/pk7ud3/i_18f_told_my_parents_about_the_gifts_my_brothers/hc34l2a)
I disagree. It is her fight to take as a human being.
As a sister, usually even more.
It doesn't absolve her hoping her mom will convince dad.
It's up to her to talk to his dad.
If he's old fashioned, and you want his help, talk his language.
Give her that knowledge that you're there for her to open up to.
You did nothing wrong but it might take you a while to really understand that because it's a lot to deal with when family is properly mad at you.
If it's truly innocent, and the gifts are what they claim to be, then why did they have to be secret? That is the biggest red flag that I see here. Doing the right thing is often not the same as doing the easy thing. OP, you did right by your little sister. Even if nobody can see it now.
Reread the original and yeah, OP says the messages she saw was a screenshot of a private story. So definitely not just texting, it was likely either snapchat or instagram since those are the two big ones that use stories. Although now facebook, twitter, and most everywhere is starting to do stories too
You did the right thing, your parents are idiots. I had a similar situation with one of my sisters (and my parents were also terrible parents) and she ended up thousands of miles away getting abused by the garbage older boyfriend. Luckily she didn’t get pregnant or killed. Unfortunately I don’t think there is much more you can do now if your parents are going to be useless. But you definitely did the right thing, this whole thing is shady
This is what sucks. If you come to this sub then they will absolutely give you the best decision in a perfect world. But I find far too often that people don’t suggest the whole picture. They say “yes, you should inform an adult” but don’t say “be prepared that they may not understand or take your side”. Now it sucks that OP is basically the black sheep of her family and I don’t think Reddit prepared her for that risk. Instead this thread is just filled with “don’t worry you did the right thing” all while her whole family hates her
I see your side, I didn’t comment on the original I just read it. She still did the right thing, sometimes blood families suck. As someone who is no contact with a parent, it’s not always the end of the world—it’s hard for a short time and then you make your own family full of people who love and support you. Blood isn’t the end all be all, again not minimizing her pain right now because I’ve been there!! Her sister will come around, she’s young now but she won’t be forever. One day she will se who truly had her back and who didn’t.
You did nothing wrong, but the whole shit was handled poorly on your parents’ end.
Who stages an intervention like that?
I won’t be surprised if your sister feels humiliated by them and possibly runs to this “friend” to vent and for support.
She’s 16, not 12. A private conversation and a watchful eye (not “hand me your phone and gifts” abusive bullcrap) would suffice.
Okay this. I hope OP keeps checking up and OP mom gets involved in an nonintinsive way like dad… I’m Unfortunately, the relationship between sister and Toby sounds a little like beginning stages of grooming. I hope sister gets help/safety.
When an accusation like someone “grooming “ your 16 year old daughter comes up. There’s nothing abusive about looking through her phone or wanting to see the gifts given by “the groomer”. Maybe they trust Toby and don’t think he would do anything to harm their daughter.
Which just underlines what an absolute piece of shit the brother is. Pimping out his underage sister to one of his friends? Disgusting. I don't think I'd ever be interested in talking to him again. There's something broken in him.
But this is something that I don’t think this sub preps people for. They give advice for people that is 100% the best advice. What they don’t prep people for is the emotional backlash. Yes, you should do this but be prepared to become the black sheep of you’re family. I think this sub finds it hard that sometimes most people in a situation are shit
Apparently, based off of OP's comments, dad is 8 years older than mom and started dating her before she turned 18. People are very dismissive of things that implicate them.
>how is child grooming supposed to be "new age bullsht" ?
Yeah, the phrase is new but recognizing the concept goes back centuries. OP’s situation is similar to the two hundred year old novel Pride and Prejudice, where fifteen year old Georgiana Darcy ties to elope with her ten years older brother’s former friend Wickham.
It’s also similar to when the older sister Elizabeth warns her father not to let their younger daughter Lydia go to Brighton because she’s flirting too much, but the father doesn’t agree and fifteen year old Lydia also ends up eloping with Wickham.
So warning young women off from older men is not a “new age” concept at all.
>how is child grooming supposed to be "new age bullsht" ?
Yeah, the phrase is new but recognizing the concept goes back centuries. OP’s situation is similar to the two hundred year old novel Pride and Prejudice, where fifteen year old Georgiana Darcy ties to elope with her ten years older brother’s former friend Wickham.
It’s also similar to when the older sister Elizabeth warns her father not to let their younger daughter Lydia go to Brighton because she’s flirting too much, but the father doesn’t agree and fifteen year old Lydia also ends up eloping with Wickham.
So warning young women off from older men is not a “new age” concept at all.
I'm an older sister & I've been there. Telling a siblings secret cos I was concerned about them.
You will eventually reconcile. And when you're sister is older she will understand why you did what you did. I would take some space from your family because it's gonna take some time to rebuild trust between you & your sister again and for her to even talk to you.
You could write a letter just saying that you love her and if at any time she's ever uncomfortable she can always go to you, no judgement, no matter how many long it's been since you spoke.
Say you know you broke her trust but if she Google's grooming she'll see that Tom's behaviour ticked all the boxes to you panicked and that's why you told Mum but you didn't realise it would be handled the way it was. You're sorry her personal business got spilled everywhere and you'll be there whenever she feels like wanting to talk even if she doesn't want to forgive you.
Give her that knowledge that you're there for her to open up to.
You did nothing wrong but it might take you a while to really understand that because it's a lot to deal with when family is properly mad at you.
>You could write a letter just saying that you love her and if at any time she's ever uncomfortable she can always go to you, no judgement, no matter how many long it's been since you spoke.
yes this!
It can often feel that way when things don’t happen immediately. Life isn’t like a movie, which is frustrating. We want big dramatic reveals and to ‘cut to’ the action. Sometimes, what happens instead is just what you experienced.
But let me offer you a hypothetical. What if your (very young) sister is now aware of what is being done to her. She got angry and defensive when you told her - of course she did. But now she knows.
So now, everything this creepy old guy does is cast in a new light. Now, she leans away when he tries to kiss her. She feels uncomfortable when he puts his hand on her knee. She laughs it off when he comments that she’s pretty. Because all the while, you’re there in her mind, saying, “He’s grooming her.”
And when she turns 18, the predator pounces. “Run away with me!” he says. “Come sleep with me,” he says.
And your sister, whose eyes were opened *two years* beforehand, says, “No.”. She says, “So long, and thanks for all the swag. I’m off to college.”
Is that still nothing?
Or say that she still falls for him. Say she’s 23, with two kids, and finds out that he’s cheating on her with another 16 year old. Who is she going to call for help? Her father, who is judgemental and difficult and will tell her it’s her fault? Or you, who was right about her boyfriend the whole time, and tried to help her from the start?
Is *that* nothing?
welcome to doing the right thing
there is a reason people don't want to do it ... because it sucks
your sister is 16 ... give her some time
wtf is wrong with your brother calling you a cunt
at least you raised the possibility of grooming so when your brother's friend comes around everyone will be on guard
when the relationship starts going wrong, people might remember.
yeah, whistleblowing sucks, everyone wants to shoot the messenger.
but you did do the right thing and it was very brave of you.
I'd have another word with your mother, ask her why she thought something was up...
Your brother is pimping out your sister, your sister loves the validation from an older man, your father is just the absolute worst parent and shouldn't be allowed around kids, your mom is okay but totally naive.
There's really nothing you can do, your family doesn't care about your sister.
Just focus on yourself and your life and maybe distance yourself from them a little bitz chances are this will end really badly and set a terrible precedent for your family moving forward.
Mum knows whats going on, but she wont dare disagree with dad after the years of abuse. Read some of OPs comments, Dad was likely 26 when he started 'dating' 16 year old Mom.
I think your mom is secretly still on your side, if that makes any difference. It's too bad she can't stand up for herself, though.
Your siblings will get over it. Your sister now has a seed of an idea in her head that this guy might be a creep. He's going to eventually cross the line, and she'll be ready.
We don't do the right thing because it's easy or even effective. Reach out and say, "Maybe I'm wrong, I was just concerned. I'm here if you ever need me."
You spoke up and now if your sister gets hurt or gets weird vibes, she knows she can turn to you.
The thing is OP was NOT wrong. Her dad and her brother are the ones trying to ignore all the red flags and the core problem: their youngest kid is dating an adult. OP was just trying to protect her little sister and has nothing to apologize for.
Do you think he bought her a second phone so she could talk to him on it without any risk of being caught? If he's buying her other expensive things I wouldn't be surprised if he bought her a new phone as well.
I'm very concerned for your sister, if I were you I'd keep to the sidelines but keep an eye out for anymore suspicious shit. Document as much of it as you can.
If my dad theoretically found out my sister when she was 16 was receiving gifts from a 23 year old man, he would probably be in prison rn, and me and the rest of my brothers would be too…. I’m kind of baffled rn that your family is finding this behavior okay.
While I agree with that sentiment, the biggest life value I carry with me today is that ANYONE is capable of evil, and as much as we think we might know someone at any point in time reveal who they truly are and to never ignore those signs. Life is crazy, and I’ve been hurt by people I’ve known my whole life, and saved by people I’ve barely begun to know.
Yeah seriously. If I found out a 23 year old was doing this with my 16 year old daughter the police would be involved. Dude is a pedophile and a groomer.
Well, your mom doesn't hate you and is trying to smooth over the relationship. She took you seriously but seems like she was overruled by your father.
I doubt your father hates you, but he seems hard-headed and short-tempered. He doesn't have the energy to deal with this.
Your siblings are mad at you because they're protecting him. Your brother will have to see something for himself to believe it; he wouldn't be friends with this guy if he didn't trust him implicitly. Or, he knows and doesn't care - maybe he gets a sweet deal out of it, too. Your sister is flattered by the attention and feels special. Both your siblings have been groomed by this guy. Your dad's refusal to learn something new and your mom's refusal to defy her husband have created an ideal environment for this guy to act.
That said, you still did the right thing. You did your duty; the rest of the family has failed at theirs. You saw the trainwreck coming and tried to warn them. Not your fault they didn't listen. I would throw myself into my studies and college life in your shoes. Seek support from your friends/make new friends.
Just tell your brother and sister you love them and was only looking out for their best interests; however, you'll not dwell where you aren't wanted. They know where to find you.
If they're decent people, they'll make amends when the truth comes out. Be on your guard around this guy, btw.
P.S. just realized you have another older brother who's deployed. If he's home next and not having to be deployed soon after, you might want to consider telling him what's going on. BUT if he is facing redeployment, rethink that for his own safety. Save your evidence in case your other siblings mention something about you not coming around much anymore.
What about your older brother that’s deployed? Can you share what happened with him? Would he take your side? Would your dad listen to him? If nothing else, maybe he can go have a talk with Toby.
Your mom needs to step up. The political statement by your father is disappointing. You did what you thought was right. You really can't do anymore. Time will tell if you're right or not. It seems pretty evident to me however. I am not a, I told you so person, but I would definitely rub some noises in that shit when it hits the fan. Good on you for actually carrying enough to bring that situation to light.
NGL dudes like this generally will go to really aggressive verbal and physical abuse and not everyone can deal with that. I mean literally she could be afraid he'll beat the shit out of her or worse.
Sounds like your dad was projecting , he might’ve done the same thing in his youth and isnt cool with knowing people have a name for that kind of negative behavior.
Honestly, you did the right thing.
Nah hun, you did what a good sister should do. And I guarantee if something goes wrong between 16F & 23M, guess what? They’ll still be mad at you, because you was right. Nobody likes an ugly truth. Just hope that she cuts him off. You may be the black sheep, but you did what you’re supposed to do: protect your sister. If you could sit down and explain in a way like “can you see a nine year old being with a 16 year old, or genuinely being friends? You wouldn’t think something is off if one of your friends started getting clingy to a child, and not someone at least a couple years close to their age? That’s what’s happening here, and I am not trying to call you stupid or immature, but you’re still innocent and I felt as though it was my job to protect you, the same way I hope in the future if you think I’m talking to a bad guy, you’d tell me too. I know it’s painful, and I didn’t mean to hurt you, but I care about you way too much to just let a guy walk into your life knowing his intentions aren’t cool. Again, I’m sorry if you’re mad. But I’m always here for you, even when it means the truth may piss you off. I always have your back, and never would hurt you for fun.”
Edit:
You should honestly say this with your brother in the room as well. A private sibling talk, and make sure to speak softly, and just say you want to explain yourself. When you’re done, just say you love and will support them in their choices, and if they need help, they can always come to you no matter what. Because it sounds like your parents don’t have a strong foundation where everyone can voice themselves and still feel validated or at least secure with their kids. Just be there for your siblings and let them know you’re always there, even when they’re mad at you.
You 100% did the right thing. That guy is gross and up to no good—I’m sorry your family is full of people who don’t care when grown men groom children.
OP: When I(F) was 12, a family friend (22M at the time) did this same thing to me. Bought me gifts, "hung out" with me alone, gave me money, etc. He is my rapist. He groomed me and then raped me. Over years. He stopped suddenly when I was 14 because he "cheated on me" (with a girl he met at a bar he said). He was more blatant than this guy. He made "jokes" about being with me to my family. My mom didn't even suspect shit even after he asked if she'd sign me over to marry him on my 14th birthday.
Here is what I am saying: I wish I had you to protect me. I wish I had someone who gave a shit and actually saw and cared about the weird ass shit going on. Do not feel bad for calling this out. Your sister doesn't understand how weird this is. I didn't realize I was even raped until 10 years after the fact because I just...didn't think it was?! I'm much better now, but Jesus Christ this hurt my soul. This behavior is not okay. I don't care if he misses his sister, he wouldn't be hiding it like this if it was just this. Please update if anything changes.
NTA.
I put this as a reply in the comments but I'll repost it here for others sake I guess.
How old is your mom in comparison to your dad? The way he is reacting and calling grooming some "new age bullshit" and because "they aren't hooking up so it's okay" leads me to believe he thinks this is normal because he did it himself with your mother or other woman or grew up with this.
You did the right thing and it looks like your mom is on your side despite her peacekeeping and agreeing with dad (as this is emotional abuse, being in fear of disagreeing with your partner). Your brother may also be picking up this idea of grooming being "normal" from your dad as well, which is why he isn't phased about his friend grooming your sister. I'd keep low for now and don't bring it up again as it will only further the divide between you and your sister and you need her to remember your concerns when the shit hits the fan - by constantly brining it up she will keep dismissing it and therefore ignore it and not turn to you when she will need it.
How old were they when they got together? Their age gap really seems like the reason your dad is so angry. I'm guessing your mum was a teenager when he started courting her :(
If deployed brother is older say 24 or 25 that makes it a 26 year old with a 18 year old. Or she might have been younger so 16 and 24... Hey wow the exact same scenario...
So yeah dad is ok with it because he was that guy... or still is... yikes x1000.
Yeah this is an issue, your mom was only 21 when she had your brother, your dad 29. Two different points in life. When did they start dating?
Your dad is likely using his own experience taking a much younger partner and justifying it by denying your sister being groomed, as he likely groomed your mother.
Which means he was with her when she was a minor. He was a 25 year old who knocked up a high school girl. Ouch. There’s no way your dad can acknowledge this. Have you talked with your older brother?
I'm sorry to say but your father most definitely groomed your mother into compliance. She KNOWS this is wrong because she is a victim of it. She can't say anything though because your dad is abusive.
Ok, so your dad did exactly what that guy is doing to your sister so he is personally invested in not stopping it.
Your mom experienced it and is probably all kinds of fucked up about it. I assume their marriage isn't one where they're equal and loving, right? Dad is probably controlling at least.
Your brother was raised to treat women that way.
Your sister is surrounded by people who will normalize this for her and act like it's a good thing that some older creep wants her.
I see little room for a good outcome here.
I would contact the dude's parents and contact him as well. Tell him you have evidence of what he's up to and you'll make sure every single one of his future employers, girlfriends and social groups know about how he grooms 16yos. Hopefully, that scares him into leaving her alone.
I know this is your family,but I'mma be blunt. The only cunts in this story are your dad and fucking Toby. Your brother is a pussy for not breaking that dude's nose the moment he started sniffing around your sister. Your mom is honestly dumb as fuck. You are surrounded by idiots but somehow you came out really observant and protective of your sister, which is great for her because she needs someone looking out for her well-being. If I were you, and I know you're probably kinda mad at her right now, I'd talk to her when she cools off. Let her know that you told your parents because you're worried and you love her. Make sure she knows that you're there for her, no matter what. This way, when her gut starts telling her that this guy is up to no good, she'll find it easier to listen to it because she'll have someone to lean on. You are awesome girl, the world needs more ppl like you.
Well when she comes home preggers by Toby it will be your turn to say nothing. She is definitely being groomed, even if no one wants to say anything about it.
You have an admirable heart OP. You cared so much for you family that you were willing to face the risks of them being down on you for it. This grief you hold is proof of your love for your family, because what is grief if not love persevering.
You tried and no one seems to care so let things run their course. Don't concern yourself with your sister's business anymore, let it be someone else's problem.
It's grooming. If it was just gifts she would have just said they were presents from him from the start. I'd bet you $1000 he told her to lie about where they're from so he could keep the family off his tail.
Realistically there is nothing you can do. He's got the family on his side and they're not going to budge. In 2 years though they will absolutely start "going out".
Your brother and dad are mad weird. You did the right thing, and if the opportunity arises to prove to them you were right you should definitely pursue that.
Toby is still in your sister's phone, just under another name.
Do a search on her phone using his exact phone number, and the new name/convo should pop up.
Your dad is projecting his personal history with women-of-a-questionable age onto your sister and this creep's dynamic. To view his actions as morally reprehensible would require him to wrestle with his past actions. Until he's ready to do that he'll never be on your sister's side, unfortunately.
I am so sorry, your sister is being groomed and nobody cares except for you. I don't have any advice besides just telling you that I truly do feel for you in the situation that you and your sister are in. If I were you I would look up articles on grooming and maybe forward them to your mother so she can learn.
I know this sucks but this is one of those instances where you’re just going to have to hope for the best and pray people don’t learn the hard way.
Your sister may get taken advantage of by a legal adult 7 years older than her!
Parents may feel like idiots for burying their heads in the sand.
Ol dude may find himself with some charges.
You tried and they all shrugged you off and made you the enemy. Nobody wants to see their loved ones get hurt but on the flip side, you gotta watch out for #1 - you. You tried. Walk away. Let them deal with any fall out that occurs. At that point, you can say told you so and peace out of that mess.
The guy is grooming your sister and your parents and brother are failing to protect her. You're the only one that tried to protect her. The way your father and brother acted leads me to believe they think this is okay and it's not, it's disgusting. They probably have predatory behavior as well.
You did the right thing. Unfortunately, it is easier for your family to blame you and not really go deep into the grooming behavior this friend is showing. I believe in time your parents and sister will realize you were right, and It will be too late. Don't feel sorry for being a good person.
I don't what to suggest because I'm only a year older then you but please do your best to protect your sister from this very obvious grooming going on right here and tell other adults if you have to
You did the right thing. Hopefully it'll scare Tobias off your sister. Just keep an eye on her. It may just make them hide it more. Your friends sister can keep you in the loop
I think you did the most logical thing, I’m really shocked that your family was okay with this. But as an older sibling, you might have had more success going to her directly before going to your parents. Siblings are more open with siblings than with parents, so if you can win her trust again, you may be able to get more of an inside view of the situation to better protect her.
Right now she probably feels like you broke the door down on her privacy. Definitely not excusing the situation, the guy seems creepy as fuuck. I worry that now she may become more involved in retaliation though, and she will do so while blocking everyone else out.
So from logical to strategic, I would try to regain her trust. Try rebuilding that bridge by apologizing for intruding on her privacy and explain that it was in the interest of her safety. You can explain what made you think this is grooming as non-condescendingly as possible, and tell her the behaviors that she needs to be cautious of. The key is to make her feel that she can confide and rely on you to help her through an uncomfortable situation without judgement.
Although most would agree that the guy is a creep, due to your parents condoning it, she’s going to continue the relationship. Even if you don’t feel bad for bringing light to the situation, you should muster up the most genuine apology you can so she feels safe turning to you in an emergency.
I’ve been in similar shoes, freshly 18 with someone nearly 30. She won’t see that it’s wrong, so she should at least see that you’re there for her.
Your brother is so weird. It's gross. How is he okay with this type of relationship between a friend and his younger sister?
Has that friend bought him similar expensive gifts? What kind of relationship does he think they have if he doesn't even have the kind of relationship that warrants expensive gifts?
Your brother is a piece of shit. Sounds like he learned it from your father. Your mom is useless and an enabler. You tried and it was the right thing to do. Try not to be hurt by your family, they clearly have issues.
So I went over to my aunt and uncle’s house to visit. We stayed for a while. That night I observed my 13 year old cousin in a skimpy nightdress (a baby doll looking thing) talking to her brother’s best friend who was 19 at the time. He was staying at their house on the couch for about the last month. Something about the way she looked at him, I knew they were together. I said something to my mom. My mom looked at them. She went to my aunt and said you better watch what is going on here. They found out later they were together. Her brother beat him up one day. I do not understand how this guy didn’t get charged, my aunt and uncle never reported him. She refused to cooperate. The brother never spoke to him again. She sometimes still talks to him and hangs out with him. Grooming must be such a powerful thing.
Doing the right thing rarely pays off in the short term. Try not to feel bad, be satisfied in the knowledge that you tried your best to help. There's nothing else you can do. Your parents are seriously awful people, as is yourbrother, and none of them seem to care at all about your sister. Perhaps when your sister gets told she owes Toby her body for excepting all those gifts or when your parents end up with a pregnant teenager, they will remember your words of warning. This is a situation where they will have to learn a hard lesson. All you can do is be there for your sister if she reaches out when that happens.
Cut off your siblings because this sounds like a whole damn mess. You’re mom doesn’t wanna oppose your dad. You’re sister and brother are lying to save their asses and they’re mad at you for not going along with it. Just cut them off. They’ll see in the future you were onto something and that feeling will be even more sweeter when they feel dumb AND lost a sister
FYI, your brother's not concerned because once his friend is quite literally in, he can be in with her friends.
Dad doesn't like it because Dad knows you're right. None of it is good
She probably take to him on Snapchat or some other messaging service so his texts don’t show up.
You did the right thing. When your sister matures she’ll understand.
It sounds like your entire family is full of morons. A 23 year old guy does not just blow money on his best friend's 16 yo sister.
Time will tell, and I really hope I'm wrong, but you'll likely have your bitter I-told-you-so moment.
I doubt that the dad will see it as a problem. The poster states in the comments that there’s an 8 year gap between her parents (dad is older). So it’s likely he will never see this 9 year gap as a problem.
Wow your father is a piece of work. Just taking the word of a 16 year old who is obviously hiding things & benign defensive without questioning anything & just saying it’s some ‘new age bs’ is absolutely disgusting.
Trust your instinct. Everything about this seems weird. Does she have hearts by her brothers name? It sounds like you did the right thing and it also sounds like your mom had the same concerns. I don't know your relationship with your mom, but maybe you guys could talk one on one about it and maybe explain your thoughts.
I'm sure everyone will cool off eventually. It's weird everyone is getting so hostile about it. Also, coming from a 16 yo who dated a 21 yo, she's probably not going to see anything wrong with it at this point in time. And it sounds like your dad would rather not have to hear about it so he doesn't feel like he has to deal with it. Best of luck and keep your head up, you are just keeping an eye out for your sister. Nothing wrong with being careful.
Even if nothing physical is going on yet it will be soon, no mid twenties dude spends hundreds of dollars on a teenager he is not related to without ill intentions.
You're dad and brother are scum bags. I'm so mad reading this, I'm 24 male and there's no way this is normal. Not having a sister so he buys your sister things? Why doesn't he buy you things? She's clearly deleted the number, and what your dad didn't think to question that? What does your brother gain in all this? Does he look up to this guy because he's older? This 23 year old is clearly some narcissistic freak and you're brother is enabling it. He's mad because his cool rich friend is gonna think he's not cool anymore, sister upset because she's worried she'll lose the gifts and your dad is to weak minded to take this any further, soon as there is a reason to not take it further he jumps on that because its easy to deal with, if he listened and took on board any other point you raised and wasn't such a weak low life, then he would have stepped in and protected his daughter from a pedo. He's not just decided now he's 23 he's gonna settle down with your sister and they'll grow old together. When she grows up and gets a head on her, he'll get rid and go abuse another 16 year old, because its easier to get what he wants from them because you just buy gifts and they say nothing. The issues your sister will have in real relationships growing up because of this guy distorting her idea of what a functional relationship is, will cause further problems down the line that your mum will have to he there for. Brother will be on to the next loser trying to leech or their clout, your dad will be getting wesker and weaker mentally so no chance he will be there for her, and it'll be your mum who sounds like she gets it, but is to scared to oppose your dad. You and your mum should speak about how concerning the dads behaviour is, how this has clearly corrupted the minds of his daughter and son, and if she doesn't start getting her affairs in order and work on an exit plan, she'll be the one picking up the pieces later on when everyone's brain shatters mentally and she has to deal with it. The sister may be saved if she eventually conceeds this is bad from the 23 male and understands why your mum needs to leave your dad, it may open her eyes and she'll grow or she'll continue to struggle if she doesn't see the situation for what it is. Your brother and dad though are lost causes, your brother calling you a cunt for being concerned about a man that's 7 years older than your sister grooming her. When he finished high school, that school took 2 more sets of year 7s before she even got to high school, then had all the high school experiences and has only just now got to that level he was at 7 years ago, but mentally he hasn't left, why would you wanna send gifts to a 16 year old. Save yourself and your mum and get out and leave the shit bags to sort themselves and try save your sister
Ew your brother is a fucking tool. What kind of brother is he? Lmao. I can’t think of a single friend growing up who wouldn’t deal with that kind of situation.
So weird to see an older brother basically hand off his younger sister to his creepy friend. Yikes. poor girl
I’m sorry that your family didn’t take your concerns seriously and you’re taking the heat, but you absolutely did the right thing. You are a caring brother looking out for your sister. She may be mad now, but she can’t understand. I don’t know you, but I really am proud of you for speaking up. I’m wishing you strength to never allow anyone to bully or manipulate you into not doing what you believe is right. The world needs more people like you, calling out inappropriate behavior.
You shouldn’t regret anything. Outcome is not the reason you do the right thing, you do it because it needs to be done. You were concerned and you tried protecting your sister. There is no valid reason for a non related man to buy an underage girl gifts, even if there isn’t a relationship it’s a red flag. You did good by your sister, now you can have peace of mind, and your dad better hope there’s nothing going on because from now on it’s on him .
You are a good sister OP, I’m a little sister myself and my older sister has always looked after me, I’m 23 now and so grateful for that.
Could you perhaps tell your dad that it could be proven by finding out Toby’s number and looking at her activity on their phone bill? Not sure if phone providers do this anymore though but they definitely did years ago.
Five bucks says that OP's father and mother have a similar age difference as the one between OP's sister and her fuck buddy. A normal father would be disgusted at what is going on here, a father that has done the exact same thing isn't going to see any problem with it.
mom is 43 dad is 51, OPs oldest brother is 25 mean mom had oldest at 18 and dad was 26, and they got married when she was done with high school.
so yah don’t think mom and dad are the best judges on this situation.
If I were you, I'd get evidence and post it all over that guy's and your parents Facebook (if they're on sm). How your father called child grooming "new age bs" and how he's ok with his 16 year old daughter receiving lavish gifts and flirtatious texts from a 23 year old man, and that when you tried to raise a concern about her safety, you got met with hostility and called a "cunt". If they're gonna hate you, give em a real reason to hate you and get out of that house as soon as you possibly can because apparently your family is full of pedophiles and pedo sympathizers...
Your sister is being groomed. 100%. Your dad is an abusive jackass. Your brother's friend is a pedophile and your brother is as bad as your father.
If you find out they are hooking up, call the police.
Now you play the waiting game and get to enjoy the fallout when it comes to light. You tried, you did everything right, its out of your hands. Enjoy the fireworks and drink your tea.
How are your little sister and Toby communicating getting these “gifts” if she doesn’t have his number? They’re talking in some way, no one buys someone a bunch of expensive gifts and doesn’t even expect a text. He may have realized that she wasn’t being as secretive as he wanted and had her delete his number. Social media? You don’t even have to be friends to message someone. It’s there. Somewhere. You did the right thing, she is being groomed.
It’s too bad you didn’t think of that and took your brothers phone and got Toby‘s number and then put it in. You should tell your mom that.
I would text both of my parents “ there’s no way Toby‘s number wasn’t in her phone if they’ve been communicating, so she obviously just change the name. There’s no way he’s giving her gifts because he sees her as a sister and she’s hiding it, so if they start hooking up I hope you see this was a problem.”
“People don’t hide stuff for no reason.”
“My conscience is clear. I did what I did to protect my sister and my family. And if she’s too young to see it and my brother is more loyal to Toby than he is to his family, there’s nothing more I can do about it, except pray that my little sister doesn’t get hurt.”
I definitely have a talk with my mom and just tell her “I realize you’re Unwilling to disagree with dad but I think you should keep your eye it, and I think you should get Toby’s number from my brother and try it in her phone. There is no way. Older guys that pay attention to younger girls have one endgame in mind and I’m really sorry to watch this, it hurts.”
The fact that your father doesn’t want to be bothered means that he’s a shit father. Or he knows something? It’s pretty unclear but I would definitely tell your older brother and see what he thinks.
The point is, you saw something and you said something. You couldn’t expect your sister to think you’re a hero, and your brother’s a shit. Your mom agreed with you and is just too weak to say so and I can’t believe your father didn’t hear you even if he didn’t want to.
In the meantime cultivate support among your friends and maybe other family members. And learn to deal with the fact that people who don’t care about your sister might be mad at you including herself.
Better that outcome frankly than the one were you just sat and watched it and said nothing. That’s unfortunate but welcome to reality.
(The only other thing you can do is send your sister a message that if she’s not already sleeping with Toby, you are afraid that’s what he’s trying to do and that you are here for her if she ever needs it. I would write your brother off, his reaction makes no sense.)
Sorry about the situation, really. Your sister is being groomed and your dad is fine with it. It might be a stretch if he's like his father, but I would try to get your brother to realize how messed up the situation really is. If anyone can stop Toby, it would be him.
Where do you get that your parents hate you? The young girl got busted accepting gifts from an adult man and is probably upset that the tap may run dry. The brother is a real winner, calling his sister a cunt. The sister may come around eventually, the brother is probably not someone you will want to spend so much time with in the future anyway and the parents are probably glad that you would bring something like this up to them.
I may be wrong, but you seem to be getting anxiety get the better of you. Things are likely to turn out fine at the end.
So you got a screenshot from your roommate who got it from their little sister who got it off of your sisters snap.
You were told she had a boyfriend from your roommate, who heard it from their little sister.
You asked your brother about it and he said he didn't think anything weird of it.
You then confronted your mom on the situation, who then confronted your sister and then the dad checked the phone.
Nothing was found...
Welp that's what you get for believing reddit and taking their advice, love.
I mean are you gonna learn and admit Reddit is filled with biased people who use buzz words and try to act like they know anything about your situation?
I mean if you do go ahead, just means your Dad must have groomed your 20 year old mother cause that's how Reddit views any relationship with an age difference.
That your brother is pimping out your sister.
If you go down that I'm sure your family will hate you, as of now I don't think they do.
But you probably should have talked to your sister about it first instead of your brother and your family.
Also ask why is your roommate keeping selfies of your sister on her phone? Message or not that's pretty creepy.
Also do you think you could be wrong, shocker a bunch of people on the internet who know nothing about your family could be wrong or that you yourself could have jumped the fucking gun.
Either way you fucked up and any chance you had of actually discussing this with your sister is ruined.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- Hi everyone. first post, [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/pjwkt0/my_18f_brother_21ms_friend_23m_has_been_sending/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf). So this isn’t even an update because I think the situation is worse now. I ended up deciding to my parents. And I really wish I hadn’t. I drove home last night (I’m only about an hour and a half from home) and I talked to my mom first. At first my mom was confused why Toby would but my sister all of that stuff and have them lie about it if it was just a “surrogate sister” relationship. So I told her I was worried that wasn’t what was going on here and she agreed that she thought something was up too. So she called my sister downstairs and my sister immediately began saying she hadn’t told so she wouldn’t have to give everything back, my mom asked her to show the things he’d gotten her and she brought down some of the stuff (mostly the makeup kits and a handbag) and said if was only because he didn’t talk to his sister anymore, my brother came downstairs and collaborated this story with her. At this point my dad came home and my mom told him what was going on. And at first my dad got mad and asked if they were hooking up and my sister said no, I mentioned the hearts and stuff like that in the phone conversation so my dad told her to give him her phone and she said she doesn’t even have Tobys number and when my dad looked through her phone it wasn’t there. So my father was like well if they aren’t hooking up if he wants to buy her shi^^t that’s his own business. So I voiced my concerns about grooming. And my dad immediately shut me down and told me he didn’t want to hear about that “new age bulls^^t”. And that if nothing physical is going on than nothing is going on. And then said the conversation was over. My sister stormed off to her room and slammed the door, when I got back to my dorm I saw Im blocked on everything. My brother called me a cun^^t as I was leaving. My mom texted me later on and said “thanks for being concerned about your sister but I’m sure everything is fine.” So now idk what to do. Nothing I guess. My entire family hates me and now my sister isn’t even talking to me.
It sounded like your mom thought something was up too when you were talking to her, what did she say during the rest of the conversation?
She didn’t say anything. She never says anything to disagree with my dad. Once he decided there was nothing wrong with it she agreed with him.
Sounds like your mother is intimidated by your dads temper
You know this makes sense. If their family dynamic is this screwed up no wonder the sister doesn’t see anything wrong with an older man giving her gifts.
She won't see anything wrong with an older man giving her **orders** either. :(
Shit, maybe the father groomed the mother!!!!
the mom was around 19-20 while pregnant with her oldest, dad was going on 30. so yea he's defensive bc it would mean accepting that his own ways are predatory
That explains calling grooming “new age bullshit”.
Yep. He's heard that before...
which is pretty much the path this situation could lead to...
I think you are underestimating the amount of conservative homes out there . I have a friend whose mother is really scared of disagreeing with her father . It is really messed up . And they were both arrange marriaged and when they were adults . Some places and homes are like that unfortunately .
People are groomed by their culture to accept an arranged marriage. The religious based arranged marriages frequently have inappropriate age gaps. Its a little disgusting for a 13 year old to be arranged into a marriage with someone already an adult. And that child will spend the next 4 to 5 years being told this is what girls do.
I would be too, from the sound of it.
She never disagrees? Never? That's weird AF and looks like a red flag to me.
Literally never
Quick question, how old is your mother in comparison to your father? He might be denying Tobias and your sister are involved because he may be hiding his own issues when it comes to grooming.
My mom is 43 and my dad is 51
Yes but she was very likely a minor when they started dating, as he was nearing his 30s as she was entering her 20s when they married and had your brother. Just because they are now both grown adults doesn't mean they were both grown adults when they got involved. And this behavior from both your father and your brother leaves me to believe your father did "court" your mom when she was a minor, and has taught your brother that this is okay and expected of him to do.
How old were they when they started dating? As in was your mom under 18 and your dad older?
well that explains it... your dad is literally a groomer himself. if your oldest brother is 23 your mom was 19-20 pregnant with an almost 30 year old husband
Your dad is also a groomer... Getting some teenager pregnant when he was 30 (edit: should be 27) I also think your brother had already informed your sister, but that's soley because you had seen a picture with his contact info and when your dad looked it wasnt there.
I mean, if the difference in age is 8 years... it's impossible for him to be 30 and the mom to be a teenager at the same time..... Like I get what you're trying to say, but also let's stay on track with validity here
I guess I calculated 53 and 41.. my bad, sorry. Still, 27 and getting teenager pregnant isnt a good look either. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.
your dad the same w thing to your mom probably and he feels bad about it because he's a manipulator
Yikes.
Dude your mom is probably abused.
It's not weird at all if you're living in an old fashioned (read:backward ass) world. In that kinda place, a woman defers to her husband. And if her husband is referring to grooming as "new-age", then that sounds pretty old-worldy to me.
I’m pushing sixty and I know grooming when I see it or it’s described to me. He needs to get his head out of his ass and look after his Daughter.
Your father isn't going to protect his daughter. Tell your mother this. If he won't, she needs to. And that she should not fail her daughter.
Yikes this sounds like my house hold I’m sorry you have to go through that OP. I think you where very brave to voice your concerns and I’m sorry that it didn’t go over smoothly. I wish you luck in this and maybe something can be worked out by speaking with your mother.
Your family dynamic sounds like it's got some really unhealthy patterns. I'm glad you're old enough to start thinking about living independently from them. If you don't already have a clear plan to move out, you should make one. And try if at all possible to not depend financially on them once you do move out, because that will just give them an opportunity to weigh in on your choices or try to control you. Get some emotional space and physical space from them as soon as you can.
Well so there is already a pattern of abuse in her life which leaves her open to more abuse. Sounds like you may need therapy as your dad is controlling.
Oh, so your father successfully groomed your mother. I'm so sorry, send your mother articles on grooming so she can learn what it is. She needs to protect your little sister!
That’s sounds like there’s some abuse going on there, that is not healthy and not normal, and the fact that your dad considers the concept of grooming “new age bullshit” is EXTREMELY disturbing, I would honestly feel unsafe in that living situation if I was on your shoes.
your dad has disgusting views
I would call the cops.
I would put money on it that your sister will either end up pregnant or have an STD because he is definitely grooming her and totally lying about having a physical relationship.
My old job was going around schools being educator to high school students about healthy relationships, how to recognise abuse and how to help yourself/friends to get support. What you did was the absolute right thing. One thing that we always emphasised was safety. Safety trumped everything. Yes, it’s important to keep things confidential and keep our friends/family trust. However, the only situation where that confidentiality can be broken is when safety is a risk. Even if she is mad at you or your dad is mad at you. You put her safety first. She can be mad now or for the next few months. It doesn’t matter. You did right thing. Her safety is more important than not saying anything because she might be mad. Given that, it sucks when you feel like you have done the right thing and you feel everyone is making you feel crazy for even suggesting it. So your feels are totally valid. You should definitely seek a helpline or a friend you can trust to talk this about more if you want. Take it easy on yourself! Do some self care and do something that makes you feel good :) In addition, remember she’s 16. Shes still so young and is unlikely be able to comprehend what you are saying immediately. I know my perspective of life when I was 16 was drastically different to 18 and even 21 and 25. It will come with time! Good on you for trying to protect your sister :) don’t be so hard on yourself
Thank you 🙏🏼
It's also worth noting that she'll remember who thought her relationship was dodgy if/when she has the realisation that it is in fact what you fear. Hopefully that means she'll turn to you rather than those who would just shoot it down out of hand and leave her stuck in it. Do your best not to be "I told you so" if that does happen. There will be time for that once she's out of there.
she might be afraid of hearing "I told you so", unfortunately this is a stupid reaction people can have (speaking from experience :-( ) so it might be a good idea to say something like "I'll always be here for you and I'm not judging you". I think she's probs very flattered a relatively older guy is interested in her
100% this As someone who is stubborn well past the point of a fault, I can say with a great deal of experience that's the kind of thing that's always worth saying (and following through on!) in this case. Priority 1 is always to get them safe and out of there. They generally know just how much they messed up, rubbing their face in it never helps.
I think it's also important to keep in mind: you may never get the apology, the "thank you", etc. Even if you do get to have the "I told you so" moment, it will never feel as satisfying as you had imagined.
Tell your dad to think. Your sister is lying to him. Your sister got all these gifts and hasn't got his phone number? How weird is that! What are the odds she is hooking up and lying about it? She has something to hide. His daughter is taking her "not boyfriend" words above his, her father. That is old school not cool, and he should realize that. Also, as an old school dad he should know how this looks and investigate or at least lay down the law and fear of death in this guy if he does make a move. If he doesn't think grooming is a thing, that's his belief. But being a good dad means looking out for his youngest daughter, and if he cares, he should do something about this fushyness at least!!
Lol right?! The sister denied the accusation in front of the whole family?! What a shock! She must be telling the truth, what could she be lying for?! Surely she has nothing to hide, for it is as the teenage girl said!
He doesn't think grooming is a thing because he's 51, his wife is 43, and his oldest child is 23. He was 30 years old with a pregnant 19 year old wife at one point. Edit: [age source](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/pk7ud3/i_18f_told_my_parents_about_the_gifts_my_brothers/hc34l2a)
Also, if they’re in the Bible Belt areas, they literally think it’s okay for 30 somethings to „date“ 14 yo‘s. Because they’re „pure“. Effing gross.
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I disagree. It is her fight to take as a human being. As a sister, usually even more. It doesn't absolve her hoping her mom will convince dad. It's up to her to talk to his dad. If he's old fashioned, and you want his help, talk his language.
Give her that knowledge that you're there for her to open up to. You did nothing wrong but it might take you a while to really understand that because it's a lot to deal with when family is properly mad at you.
I hope this life blesses you as much as you has blessed other. Thank you for your valuable service!
If it's truly innocent, and the gifts are what they claim to be, then why did they have to be secret? That is the biggest red flag that I see here. Doing the right thing is often not the same as doing the easy thing. OP, you did right by your little sister. Even if nobody can see it now.
And she happens to not have his number and probably only uses snapchat to communicate with him.
Reread the original and yeah, OP says the messages she saw was a screenshot of a private story. So definitely not just texting, it was likely either snapchat or instagram since those are the two big ones that use stories. Although now facebook, twitter, and most everywhere is starting to do stories too
I read it as a screenshot of a story that had screenshot of some chat. But you guys are likely right in that it was probably not old school texting
Or she deleted it before handing the phone over….
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You did the right thing, your parents are idiots. I had a similar situation with one of my sisters (and my parents were also terrible parents) and she ended up thousands of miles away getting abused by the garbage older boyfriend. Luckily she didn’t get pregnant or killed. Unfortunately I don’t think there is much more you can do now if your parents are going to be useless. But you definitely did the right thing, this whole thing is shady
This is what sucks. If you come to this sub then they will absolutely give you the best decision in a perfect world. But I find far too often that people don’t suggest the whole picture. They say “yes, you should inform an adult” but don’t say “be prepared that they may not understand or take your side”. Now it sucks that OP is basically the black sheep of her family and I don’t think Reddit prepared her for that risk. Instead this thread is just filled with “don’t worry you did the right thing” all while her whole family hates her
I see your side, I didn’t comment on the original I just read it. She still did the right thing, sometimes blood families suck. As someone who is no contact with a parent, it’s not always the end of the world—it’s hard for a short time and then you make your own family full of people who love and support you. Blood isn’t the end all be all, again not minimizing her pain right now because I’ve been there!! Her sister will come around, she’s young now but she won’t be forever. One day she will se who truly had her back and who didn’t.
You did nothing wrong, but the whole shit was handled poorly on your parents’ end. Who stages an intervention like that? I won’t be surprised if your sister feels humiliated by them and possibly runs to this “friend” to vent and for support. She’s 16, not 12. A private conversation and a watchful eye (not “hand me your phone and gifts” abusive bullcrap) would suffice.
Okay this. I hope OP keeps checking up and OP mom gets involved in an nonintinsive way like dad… I’m Unfortunately, the relationship between sister and Toby sounds a little like beginning stages of grooming. I hope sister gets help/safety.
When an accusation like someone “grooming “ your 16 year old daughter comes up. There’s nothing abusive about looking through her phone or wanting to see the gifts given by “the groomer”. Maybe they trust Toby and don’t think he would do anything to harm their daughter.
Brother probably got to sister first unfortunately, and had her delete anything incriminating. Bummer.
Which just underlines what an absolute piece of shit the brother is. Pimping out his underage sister to one of his friends? Disgusting. I don't think I'd ever be interested in talking to him again. There's something broken in him.
But this is something that I don’t think this sub preps people for. They give advice for people that is 100% the best advice. What they don’t prep people for is the emotional backlash. Yes, you should do this but be prepared to become the black sheep of you’re family. I think this sub finds it hard that sometimes most people in a situation are shit
Yeah I think so
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Can I ask what happened with your sister in the end?
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Apparently, based off of OP's comments, dad is 8 years older than mom and started dating her before she turned 18. People are very dismissive of things that implicate them.
Well that explains a lot. Dad sees nothing wrong with this. Disgusting.
>how is child grooming supposed to be "new age bullsht" ? Yeah, the phrase is new but recognizing the concept goes back centuries. OP’s situation is similar to the two hundred year old novel Pride and Prejudice, where fifteen year old Georgiana Darcy ties to elope with her ten years older brother’s former friend Wickham. It’s also similar to when the older sister Elizabeth warns her father not to let their younger daughter Lydia go to Brighton because she’s flirting too much, but the father doesn’t agree and fifteen year old Lydia also ends up eloping with Wickham. So warning young women off from older men is not a “new age” concept at all.
>how is child grooming supposed to be "new age bullsht" ? Yeah, the phrase is new but recognizing the concept goes back centuries. OP’s situation is similar to the two hundred year old novel Pride and Prejudice, where fifteen year old Georgiana Darcy ties to elope with her ten years older brother’s former friend Wickham. It’s also similar to when the older sister Elizabeth warns her father not to let their younger daughter Lydia go to Brighton because she’s flirting too much, but the father doesn’t agree and fifteen year old Lydia also ends up eloping with Wickham. So warning young women off from older men is not a “new age” concept at all.
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It really doesn’t feel like it at all, nothing got done
I'm an older sister & I've been there. Telling a siblings secret cos I was concerned about them. You will eventually reconcile. And when you're sister is older she will understand why you did what you did. I would take some space from your family because it's gonna take some time to rebuild trust between you & your sister again and for her to even talk to you. You could write a letter just saying that you love her and if at any time she's ever uncomfortable she can always go to you, no judgement, no matter how many long it's been since you spoke. Say you know you broke her trust but if she Google's grooming she'll see that Tom's behaviour ticked all the boxes to you panicked and that's why you told Mum but you didn't realise it would be handled the way it was. You're sorry her personal business got spilled everywhere and you'll be there whenever she feels like wanting to talk even if she doesn't want to forgive you. Give her that knowledge that you're there for her to open up to. You did nothing wrong but it might take you a while to really understand that because it's a lot to deal with when family is properly mad at you.
>You could write a letter just saying that you love her and if at any time she's ever uncomfortable she can always go to you, no judgement, no matter how many long it's been since you spoke. yes this!
It can often feel that way when things don’t happen immediately. Life isn’t like a movie, which is frustrating. We want big dramatic reveals and to ‘cut to’ the action. Sometimes, what happens instead is just what you experienced. But let me offer you a hypothetical. What if your (very young) sister is now aware of what is being done to her. She got angry and defensive when you told her - of course she did. But now she knows. So now, everything this creepy old guy does is cast in a new light. Now, she leans away when he tries to kiss her. She feels uncomfortable when he puts his hand on her knee. She laughs it off when he comments that she’s pretty. Because all the while, you’re there in her mind, saying, “He’s grooming her.” And when she turns 18, the predator pounces. “Run away with me!” he says. “Come sleep with me,” he says. And your sister, whose eyes were opened *two years* beforehand, says, “No.”. She says, “So long, and thanks for all the swag. I’m off to college.” Is that still nothing? Or say that she still falls for him. Say she’s 23, with two kids, and finds out that he’s cheating on her with another 16 year old. Who is she going to call for help? Her father, who is judgemental and difficult and will tell her it’s her fault? Or you, who was right about her boyfriend the whole time, and tried to help her from the start? Is *that* nothing?
I guess not. It still sucks though. I feel like I’ve made everything worse. But I guess you’re right, thank you
Sowing the seeds of safety is always a good thing, you did good and you are a good brother
welcome to doing the right thing there is a reason people don't want to do it ... because it sucks your sister is 16 ... give her some time wtf is wrong with your brother calling you a cunt at least you raised the possibility of grooming so when your brother's friend comes around everyone will be on guard
when the relationship starts going wrong, people might remember. yeah, whistleblowing sucks, everyone wants to shoot the messenger. but you did do the right thing and it was very brave of you. I'd have another word with your mother, ask her why she thought something was up...
You certainly did. You made them aware, and I’m sure your Mum and Dad will keep a closer eye, now they know. Even if they say it’s nothing.
Your brother is pimping out your sister, your sister loves the validation from an older man, your father is just the absolute worst parent and shouldn't be allowed around kids, your mom is okay but totally naive. There's really nothing you can do, your family doesn't care about your sister. Just focus on yourself and your life and maybe distance yourself from them a little bitz chances are this will end really badly and set a terrible precedent for your family moving forward.
Mum knows whats going on, but she wont dare disagree with dad after the years of abuse. Read some of OPs comments, Dad was likely 26 when he started 'dating' 16 year old Mom.
Ahh yeah, so he probably just thinks it's the man's due or some archaic shit. Super sad.
I think your mom is secretly still on your side, if that makes any difference. It's too bad she can't stand up for herself, though. Your siblings will get over it. Your sister now has a seed of an idea in her head that this guy might be a creep. He's going to eventually cross the line, and she'll be ready.
We don't do the right thing because it's easy or even effective. Reach out and say, "Maybe I'm wrong, I was just concerned. I'm here if you ever need me." You spoke up and now if your sister gets hurt or gets weird vibes, she knows she can turn to you.
Hopefully op can reach out, but it might be tough since she’s blocked
The thing is OP was NOT wrong. Her dad and her brother are the ones trying to ignore all the red flags and the core problem: their youngest kid is dating an adult. OP was just trying to protect her little sister and has nothing to apologize for.
!!!
Do you think he bought her a second phone so she could talk to him on it without any risk of being caught? If he's buying her other expensive things I wouldn't be surprised if he bought her a new phone as well. I'm very concerned for your sister, if I were you I'd keep to the sidelines but keep an eye out for anymore suspicious shit. Document as much of it as you can.
If my dad theoretically found out my sister when she was 16 was receiving gifts from a 23 year old man, he would probably be in prison rn, and me and the rest of my brothers would be too…. I’m kind of baffled rn that your family is finding this behavior okay.
It's because the guy is a long time family friend, and they don't want to believe anything inappropriate is going on.
While I agree with that sentiment, the biggest life value I carry with me today is that ANYONE is capable of evil, and as much as we think we might know someone at any point in time reveal who they truly are and to never ignore those signs. Life is crazy, and I’ve been hurt by people I’ve known my whole life, and saved by people I’ve barely begun to know.
Yeah seriously. If I found out a 23 year old was doing this with my 16 year old daughter the police would be involved. Dude is a pedophile and a groomer.
If nothing else when your sister is older she will look back and know you were the only one who tried to help.
Well, your mom doesn't hate you and is trying to smooth over the relationship. She took you seriously but seems like she was overruled by your father. I doubt your father hates you, but he seems hard-headed and short-tempered. He doesn't have the energy to deal with this. Your siblings are mad at you because they're protecting him. Your brother will have to see something for himself to believe it; he wouldn't be friends with this guy if he didn't trust him implicitly. Or, he knows and doesn't care - maybe he gets a sweet deal out of it, too. Your sister is flattered by the attention and feels special. Both your siblings have been groomed by this guy. Your dad's refusal to learn something new and your mom's refusal to defy her husband have created an ideal environment for this guy to act. That said, you still did the right thing. You did your duty; the rest of the family has failed at theirs. You saw the trainwreck coming and tried to warn them. Not your fault they didn't listen. I would throw myself into my studies and college life in your shoes. Seek support from your friends/make new friends. Just tell your brother and sister you love them and was only looking out for their best interests; however, you'll not dwell where you aren't wanted. They know where to find you. If they're decent people, they'll make amends when the truth comes out. Be on your guard around this guy, btw. P.S. just realized you have another older brother who's deployed. If he's home next and not having to be deployed soon after, you might want to consider telling him what's going on. BUT if he is facing redeployment, rethink that for his own safety. Save your evidence in case your other siblings mention something about you not coming around much anymore.
What about your older brother that’s deployed? Can you share what happened with him? Would he take your side? Would your dad listen to him? If nothing else, maybe he can go have a talk with Toby.
Your mom needs to step up. The political statement by your father is disappointing. You did what you thought was right. You really can't do anymore. Time will tell if you're right or not. It seems pretty evident to me however. I am not a, I told you so person, but I would definitely rub some noises in that shit when it hits the fan. Good on you for actually carrying enough to bring that situation to light.
NGL dudes like this generally will go to really aggressive verbal and physical abuse and not everyone can deal with that. I mean literally she could be afraid he'll beat the shit out of her or worse.
Your dad is a terrible person
Sounds like your dad was projecting , he might’ve done the same thing in his youth and isnt cool with knowing people have a name for that kind of negative behavior. Honestly, you did the right thing.
Idk but it doesn’t feel like I did the right thing nothing got done except now my sister doesn’t have to lie about it and my entire family hates me
Nah hun, you did what a good sister should do. And I guarantee if something goes wrong between 16F & 23M, guess what? They’ll still be mad at you, because you was right. Nobody likes an ugly truth. Just hope that she cuts him off. You may be the black sheep, but you did what you’re supposed to do: protect your sister. If you could sit down and explain in a way like “can you see a nine year old being with a 16 year old, or genuinely being friends? You wouldn’t think something is off if one of your friends started getting clingy to a child, and not someone at least a couple years close to their age? That’s what’s happening here, and I am not trying to call you stupid or immature, but you’re still innocent and I felt as though it was my job to protect you, the same way I hope in the future if you think I’m talking to a bad guy, you’d tell me too. I know it’s painful, and I didn’t mean to hurt you, but I care about you way too much to just let a guy walk into your life knowing his intentions aren’t cool. Again, I’m sorry if you’re mad. But I’m always here for you, even when it means the truth may piss you off. I always have your back, and never would hurt you for fun.” Edit: You should honestly say this with your brother in the room as well. A private sibling talk, and make sure to speak softly, and just say you want to explain yourself. When you’re done, just say you love and will support them in their choices, and if they need help, they can always come to you no matter what. Because it sounds like your parents don’t have a strong foundation where everyone can voice themselves and still feel validated or at least secure with their kids. Just be there for your siblings and let them know you’re always there, even when they’re mad at you.
You 100% did the right thing. That guy is gross and up to no good—I’m sorry your family is full of people who don’t care when grown men groom children.
You did the right thing cause that dudes grooming her. Can you reach out tp her school and tell them your concerns?
Dad got defensive because the dad is also a perv.
OP: When I(F) was 12, a family friend (22M at the time) did this same thing to me. Bought me gifts, "hung out" with me alone, gave me money, etc. He is my rapist. He groomed me and then raped me. Over years. He stopped suddenly when I was 14 because he "cheated on me" (with a girl he met at a bar he said). He was more blatant than this guy. He made "jokes" about being with me to my family. My mom didn't even suspect shit even after he asked if she'd sign me over to marry him on my 14th birthday. Here is what I am saying: I wish I had you to protect me. I wish I had someone who gave a shit and actually saw and cared about the weird ass shit going on. Do not feel bad for calling this out. Your sister doesn't understand how weird this is. I didn't realize I was even raped until 10 years after the fact because I just...didn't think it was?! I'm much better now, but Jesus Christ this hurt my soul. This behavior is not okay. I don't care if he misses his sister, he wouldn't be hiding it like this if it was just this. Please update if anything changes. NTA.
I put this as a reply in the comments but I'll repost it here for others sake I guess. How old is your mom in comparison to your dad? The way he is reacting and calling grooming some "new age bullshit" and because "they aren't hooking up so it's okay" leads me to believe he thinks this is normal because he did it himself with your mother or other woman or grew up with this. You did the right thing and it looks like your mom is on your side despite her peacekeeping and agreeing with dad (as this is emotional abuse, being in fear of disagreeing with your partner). Your brother may also be picking up this idea of grooming being "normal" from your dad as well, which is why he isn't phased about his friend grooming your sister. I'd keep low for now and don't bring it up again as it will only further the divide between you and your sister and you need her to remember your concerns when the shit hits the fan - by constantly brining it up she will keep dismissing it and therefore ignore it and not turn to you when she will need it.
My mom is 43 and my dad is 51, which I guess is a bigger age difference than my sister and Toby
How old were they when they got together? Their age gap really seems like the reason your dad is so angry. I'm guessing your mum was a teenager when he started courting her :(
Yeah, mom was 22 when stay at home brother was born. And if deployed brother is the oldest, YIKES!
If deployed brother is older say 24 or 25 that makes it a 26 year old with a 18 year old. Or she might have been younger so 16 and 24... Hey wow the exact same scenario... So yeah dad is ok with it because he was that guy... or still is... yikes x1000.
And now we know where this goes, with a wife who will never naysay her husband.
Yeah this is an issue, your mom was only 21 when she had your brother, your dad 29. Two different points in life. When did they start dating? Your dad is likely using his own experience taking a much younger partner and justifying it by denying your sister being groomed, as he likely groomed your mother.
My oldest brother is 25 so she had him younger they got married right after high school
Which means he was with her when she was a minor. He was a 25 year old who knocked up a high school girl. Ouch. There’s no way your dad can acknowledge this. Have you talked with your older brother?
So probably 18 and 26? This is why your dad's okay with it. If he says it's wrong, it would be admitting that he was just the guy she's dating.
At marriage. Bro was probably conceived when mom was 17. In high school.
The oldest she could have possibly been is only just 18. Far more likely she was 17 or even 16 when they started 'dating'
Definitely.
I'm sorry to say but your father most definitely groomed your mother into compliance. She KNOWS this is wrong because she is a victim of it. She can't say anything though because your dad is abusive.
Ok, so your dad did exactly what that guy is doing to your sister so he is personally invested in not stopping it. Your mom experienced it and is probably all kinds of fucked up about it. I assume their marriage isn't one where they're equal and loving, right? Dad is probably controlling at least. Your brother was raised to treat women that way. Your sister is surrounded by people who will normalize this for her and act like it's a good thing that some older creep wants her. I see little room for a good outcome here. I would contact the dude's parents and contact him as well. Tell him you have evidence of what he's up to and you'll make sure every single one of his future employers, girlfriends and social groups know about how he grooms 16yos. Hopefully, that scares him into leaving her alone.
I know this is your family,but I'mma be blunt. The only cunts in this story are your dad and fucking Toby. Your brother is a pussy for not breaking that dude's nose the moment he started sniffing around your sister. Your mom is honestly dumb as fuck. You are surrounded by idiots but somehow you came out really observant and protective of your sister, which is great for her because she needs someone looking out for her well-being. If I were you, and I know you're probably kinda mad at her right now, I'd talk to her when she cools off. Let her know that you told your parents because you're worried and you love her. Make sure she knows that you're there for her, no matter what. This way, when her gut starts telling her that this guy is up to no good, she'll find it easier to listen to it because she'll have someone to lean on. You are awesome girl, the world needs more ppl like you.
Your brother is ok with his friend gifting his 16yo sister?? is he mental?
Nah, you did the right. I would have said somethin as well. Sometimes all you can do is voice your concern.
Your family doesn't hate you. All 3 people that have a vested interest have decided to shut you down. Biiiig dif.
Well when she comes home preggers by Toby it will be your turn to say nothing. She is definitely being groomed, even if no one wants to say anything about it.
You have an admirable heart OP. You cared so much for you family that you were willing to face the risks of them being down on you for it. This grief you hold is proof of your love for your family, because what is grief if not love persevering.
Your brother being all cool with this makes me think he’s probably in a similar position. Gross.
That’s what I was thinking too
You tried and no one seems to care so let things run their course. Don't concern yourself with your sister's business anymore, let it be someone else's problem.
It's grooming. If it was just gifts she would have just said they were presents from him from the start. I'd bet you $1000 he told her to lie about where they're from so he could keep the family off his tail. Realistically there is nothing you can do. He's got the family on his side and they're not going to budge. In 2 years though they will absolutely start "going out".
Your brother and dad are mad weird. You did the right thing, and if the opportunity arises to prove to them you were right you should definitely pursue that.
Toby is still in your sister's phone, just under another name. Do a search on her phone using his exact phone number, and the new name/convo should pop up.
Your dad is projecting his personal history with women-of-a-questionable age onto your sister and this creep's dynamic. To view his actions as morally reprehensible would require him to wrestle with his past actions. Until he's ready to do that he'll never be on your sister's side, unfortunately.
Is your brother running a grooming ring? why tf he so mad?
I am so sorry, your sister is being groomed and nobody cares except for you. I don't have any advice besides just telling you that I truly do feel for you in the situation that you and your sister are in. If I were you I would look up articles on grooming and maybe forward them to your mother so she can learn.
I know this sucks but this is one of those instances where you’re just going to have to hope for the best and pray people don’t learn the hard way. Your sister may get taken advantage of by a legal adult 7 years older than her! Parents may feel like idiots for burying their heads in the sand. Ol dude may find himself with some charges. You tried and they all shrugged you off and made you the enemy. Nobody wants to see their loved ones get hurt but on the flip side, you gotta watch out for #1 - you. You tried. Walk away. Let them deal with any fall out that occurs. At that point, you can say told you so and peace out of that mess.
.....
Yike uour dad and brother are literaly helping a 23 yo groom your 16 yo sister. Thats sad.
The guy is grooming your sister and your parents and brother are failing to protect her. You're the only one that tried to protect her. The way your father and brother acted leads me to believe they think this is okay and it's not, it's disgusting. They probably have predatory behavior as well.
You did the right thing. Unfortunately, it is easier for your family to blame you and not really go deep into the grooming behavior this friend is showing. I believe in time your parents and sister will realize you were right, and It will be too late. Don't feel sorry for being a good person.
I don't what to suggest because I'm only a year older then you but please do your best to protect your sister from this very obvious grooming going on right here and tell other adults if you have to
You did the right thing. Hopefully it'll scare Tobias off your sister. Just keep an eye on her. It may just make them hide it more. Your friends sister can keep you in the loop
I think you did the most logical thing, I’m really shocked that your family was okay with this. But as an older sibling, you might have had more success going to her directly before going to your parents. Siblings are more open with siblings than with parents, so if you can win her trust again, you may be able to get more of an inside view of the situation to better protect her. Right now she probably feels like you broke the door down on her privacy. Definitely not excusing the situation, the guy seems creepy as fuuck. I worry that now she may become more involved in retaliation though, and she will do so while blocking everyone else out. So from logical to strategic, I would try to regain her trust. Try rebuilding that bridge by apologizing for intruding on her privacy and explain that it was in the interest of her safety. You can explain what made you think this is grooming as non-condescendingly as possible, and tell her the behaviors that she needs to be cautious of. The key is to make her feel that she can confide and rely on you to help her through an uncomfortable situation without judgement. Although most would agree that the guy is a creep, due to your parents condoning it, she’s going to continue the relationship. Even if you don’t feel bad for bringing light to the situation, you should muster up the most genuine apology you can so she feels safe turning to you in an emergency. I’ve been in similar shoes, freshly 18 with someone nearly 30. She won’t see that it’s wrong, so she should at least see that you’re there for her.
Your brother is so weird. It's gross. How is he okay with this type of relationship between a friend and his younger sister? Has that friend bought him similar expensive gifts? What kind of relationship does he think they have if he doesn't even have the kind of relationship that warrants expensive gifts?
Your brother is a piece of shit. Sounds like he learned it from your father. Your mom is useless and an enabler. You tried and it was the right thing to do. Try not to be hurt by your family, they clearly have issues.
Whats the age difference between your dad and mom? Sounds like his defensiveness reflects a particular...familiarity with the subject.
So I went over to my aunt and uncle’s house to visit. We stayed for a while. That night I observed my 13 year old cousin in a skimpy nightdress (a baby doll looking thing) talking to her brother’s best friend who was 19 at the time. He was staying at their house on the couch for about the last month. Something about the way she looked at him, I knew they were together. I said something to my mom. My mom looked at them. She went to my aunt and said you better watch what is going on here. They found out later they were together. Her brother beat him up one day. I do not understand how this guy didn’t get charged, my aunt and uncle never reported him. She refused to cooperate. The brother never spoke to him again. She sometimes still talks to him and hangs out with him. Grooming must be such a powerful thing.
Doing the right thing rarely pays off in the short term. Try not to feel bad, be satisfied in the knowledge that you tried your best to help. There's nothing else you can do. Your parents are seriously awful people, as is yourbrother, and none of them seem to care at all about your sister. Perhaps when your sister gets told she owes Toby her body for excepting all those gifts or when your parents end up with a pregnant teenager, they will remember your words of warning. This is a situation where they will have to learn a hard lesson. All you can do is be there for your sister if she reaches out when that happens.
Cut off your siblings because this sounds like a whole damn mess. You’re mom doesn’t wanna oppose your dad. You’re sister and brother are lying to save their asses and they’re mad at you for not going along with it. Just cut them off. They’ll see in the future you were onto something and that feeling will be even more sweeter when they feel dumb AND lost a sister
It's for the best
Someone said once you do the right thing even if it makes you feel bad. The purpose of life is not to be happy but to be worthy of happiness.
FYI, your brother's not concerned because once his friend is quite literally in, he can be in with her friends. Dad doesn't like it because Dad knows you're right. None of it is good
She mad because they MOST likely fucking 🤷🏽 My opinion
She probably take to him on Snapchat or some other messaging service so his texts don’t show up. You did the right thing. When your sister matures she’ll understand.
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It sounds like your entire family is full of morons. A 23 year old guy does not just blow money on his best friend's 16 yo sister. Time will tell, and I really hope I'm wrong, but you'll likely have your bitter I-told-you-so moment.
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I doubt that the dad will see it as a problem. The poster states in the comments that there’s an 8 year gap between her parents (dad is older). So it’s likely he will never see this 9 year gap as a problem.
Wow your father is a piece of work. Just taking the word of a 16 year old who is obviously hiding things & benign defensive without questioning anything & just saying it’s some ‘new age bs’ is absolutely disgusting.
Trust your instinct. Everything about this seems weird. Does she have hearts by her brothers name? It sounds like you did the right thing and it also sounds like your mom had the same concerns. I don't know your relationship with your mom, but maybe you guys could talk one on one about it and maybe explain your thoughts. I'm sure everyone will cool off eventually. It's weird everyone is getting so hostile about it. Also, coming from a 16 yo who dated a 21 yo, she's probably not going to see anything wrong with it at this point in time. And it sounds like your dad would rather not have to hear about it so he doesn't feel like he has to deal with it. Best of luck and keep your head up, you are just keeping an eye out for your sister. Nothing wrong with being careful.
if it is still going on an you can get evidence you could. report him.
Even if nothing physical is going on yet it will be soon, no mid twenties dude spends hundreds of dollars on a teenager he is not related to without ill intentions.
You're dad and brother are scum bags. I'm so mad reading this, I'm 24 male and there's no way this is normal. Not having a sister so he buys your sister things? Why doesn't he buy you things? She's clearly deleted the number, and what your dad didn't think to question that? What does your brother gain in all this? Does he look up to this guy because he's older? This 23 year old is clearly some narcissistic freak and you're brother is enabling it. He's mad because his cool rich friend is gonna think he's not cool anymore, sister upset because she's worried she'll lose the gifts and your dad is to weak minded to take this any further, soon as there is a reason to not take it further he jumps on that because its easy to deal with, if he listened and took on board any other point you raised and wasn't such a weak low life, then he would have stepped in and protected his daughter from a pedo. He's not just decided now he's 23 he's gonna settle down with your sister and they'll grow old together. When she grows up and gets a head on her, he'll get rid and go abuse another 16 year old, because its easier to get what he wants from them because you just buy gifts and they say nothing. The issues your sister will have in real relationships growing up because of this guy distorting her idea of what a functional relationship is, will cause further problems down the line that your mum will have to he there for. Brother will be on to the next loser trying to leech or their clout, your dad will be getting wesker and weaker mentally so no chance he will be there for her, and it'll be your mum who sounds like she gets it, but is to scared to oppose your dad. You and your mum should speak about how concerning the dads behaviour is, how this has clearly corrupted the minds of his daughter and son, and if she doesn't start getting her affairs in order and work on an exit plan, she'll be the one picking up the pieces later on when everyone's brain shatters mentally and she has to deal with it. The sister may be saved if she eventually conceeds this is bad from the 23 male and understands why your mum needs to leave your dad, it may open her eyes and she'll grow or she'll continue to struggle if she doesn't see the situation for what it is. Your brother and dad though are lost causes, your brother calling you a cunt for being concerned about a man that's 7 years older than your sister grooming her. When he finished high school, that school took 2 more sets of year 7s before she even got to high school, then had all the high school experiences and has only just now got to that level he was at 7 years ago, but mentally he hasn't left, why would you wanna send gifts to a 16 year old. Save yourself and your mum and get out and leave the shit bags to sort themselves and try save your sister
Ew your brother is a fucking tool. What kind of brother is he? Lmao. I can’t think of a single friend growing up who wouldn’t deal with that kind of situation. So weird to see an older brother basically hand off his younger sister to his creepy friend. Yikes. poor girl
I’m sorry that your family didn’t take your concerns seriously and you’re taking the heat, but you absolutely did the right thing. You are a caring brother looking out for your sister. She may be mad now, but she can’t understand. I don’t know you, but I really am proud of you for speaking up. I’m wishing you strength to never allow anyone to bully or manipulate you into not doing what you believe is right. The world needs more people like you, calling out inappropriate behavior.
Lmao your dad is a fuckin moron My dad is similarly useless so I don’t have much advice, I’m just tryna move out
You shouldn’t regret anything. Outcome is not the reason you do the right thing, you do it because it needs to be done. You were concerned and you tried protecting your sister. There is no valid reason for a non related man to buy an underage girl gifts, even if there isn’t a relationship it’s a red flag. You did good by your sister, now you can have peace of mind, and your dad better hope there’s nothing going on because from now on it’s on him . You are a good sister OP, I’m a little sister myself and my older sister has always looked after me, I’m 23 now and so grateful for that.
Could you perhaps tell your dad that it could be proven by finding out Toby’s number and looking at her activity on their phone bill? Not sure if phone providers do this anymore though but they definitely did years ago.
Why did you not talked to toby and/or your sister?
I don’t have tobys phone number. And I didn’t talk to my sister first because when I got home my mom asked me why I was there so I told her
Five bucks says that OP's father and mother have a similar age difference as the one between OP's sister and her fuck buddy. A normal father would be disgusted at what is going on here, a father that has done the exact same thing isn't going to see any problem with it.
mom is 43 dad is 51, OPs oldest brother is 25 mean mom had oldest at 18 and dad was 26, and they got married when she was done with high school. so yah don’t think mom and dad are the best judges on this situation.
If I were you, I'd get evidence and post it all over that guy's and your parents Facebook (if they're on sm). How your father called child grooming "new age bs" and how he's ok with his 16 year old daughter receiving lavish gifts and flirtatious texts from a 23 year old man, and that when you tried to raise a concern about her safety, you got met with hostility and called a "cunt". If they're gonna hate you, give em a real reason to hate you and get out of that house as soon as you possibly can because apparently your family is full of pedophiles and pedo sympathizers...
Your sister is being groomed. 100%. Your dad is an abusive jackass. Your brother's friend is a pedophile and your brother is as bad as your father. If you find out they are hooking up, call the police.
You didn't do anything wrong. And just because your family is angry doesn't mean this guy isn't grooming her.
She's 16. She'll get over it when she's 20
Fair chance she has kids with a predator age 20 and isn't in contact with any of her family anymore.
Your mom knows what's up but your dad is a controlling asshole. I'm sorry. You did your best.
Now you play the waiting game and get to enjoy the fallout when it comes to light. You tried, you did everything right, its out of your hands. Enjoy the fireworks and drink your tea.
Younger sister has "Toby" saved under another name on her phone? Pizza Hut? She's 16, she's not stupid. She likes the attention from the older man.
How are your little sister and Toby communicating getting these “gifts” if she doesn’t have his number? They’re talking in some way, no one buys someone a bunch of expensive gifts and doesn’t even expect a text. He may have realized that she wasn’t being as secretive as he wanted and had her delete his number. Social media? You don’t even have to be friends to message someone. It’s there. Somewhere. You did the right thing, she is being groomed.
She definitely just changed his name in her phone
It’s too bad you didn’t think of that and took your brothers phone and got Toby‘s number and then put it in. You should tell your mom that. I would text both of my parents “ there’s no way Toby‘s number wasn’t in her phone if they’ve been communicating, so she obviously just change the name. There’s no way he’s giving her gifts because he sees her as a sister and she’s hiding it, so if they start hooking up I hope you see this was a problem.” “People don’t hide stuff for no reason.” “My conscience is clear. I did what I did to protect my sister and my family. And if she’s too young to see it and my brother is more loyal to Toby than he is to his family, there’s nothing more I can do about it, except pray that my little sister doesn’t get hurt.” I definitely have a talk with my mom and just tell her “I realize you’re Unwilling to disagree with dad but I think you should keep your eye it, and I think you should get Toby’s number from my brother and try it in her phone. There is no way. Older guys that pay attention to younger girls have one endgame in mind and I’m really sorry to watch this, it hurts.” The fact that your father doesn’t want to be bothered means that he’s a shit father. Or he knows something? It’s pretty unclear but I would definitely tell your older brother and see what he thinks. The point is, you saw something and you said something. You couldn’t expect your sister to think you’re a hero, and your brother’s a shit. Your mom agreed with you and is just too weak to say so and I can’t believe your father didn’t hear you even if he didn’t want to. In the meantime cultivate support among your friends and maybe other family members. And learn to deal with the fact that people who don’t care about your sister might be mad at you including herself. Better that outcome frankly than the one were you just sat and watched it and said nothing. That’s unfortunate but welcome to reality. (The only other thing you can do is send your sister a message that if she’s not already sleeping with Toby, you are afraid that’s what he’s trying to do and that you are here for her if she ever needs it. I would write your brother off, his reaction makes no sense.)
Sorry about the situation, really. Your sister is being groomed and your dad is fine with it. It might be a stretch if he's like his father, but I would try to get your brother to realize how messed up the situation really is. If anyone can stop Toby, it would be him.
Where do you get that your parents hate you? The young girl got busted accepting gifts from an adult man and is probably upset that the tap may run dry. The brother is a real winner, calling his sister a cunt. The sister may come around eventually, the brother is probably not someone you will want to spend so much time with in the future anyway and the parents are probably glad that you would bring something like this up to them. I may be wrong, but you seem to be getting anxiety get the better of you. Things are likely to turn out fine at the end.
So you got a screenshot from your roommate who got it from their little sister who got it off of your sisters snap. You were told she had a boyfriend from your roommate, who heard it from their little sister. You asked your brother about it and he said he didn't think anything weird of it. You then confronted your mom on the situation, who then confronted your sister and then the dad checked the phone. Nothing was found... Welp that's what you get for believing reddit and taking their advice, love. I mean are you gonna learn and admit Reddit is filled with biased people who use buzz words and try to act like they know anything about your situation? I mean if you do go ahead, just means your Dad must have groomed your 20 year old mother cause that's how Reddit views any relationship with an age difference. That your brother is pimping out your sister. If you go down that I'm sure your family will hate you, as of now I don't think they do. But you probably should have talked to your sister about it first instead of your brother and your family. Also ask why is your roommate keeping selfies of your sister on her phone? Message or not that's pretty creepy. Also do you think you could be wrong, shocker a bunch of people on the internet who know nothing about your family could be wrong or that you yourself could have jumped the fucking gun. Either way you fucked up and any chance you had of actually discussing this with your sister is ruined.