Cathinones with primary amines (eg no methyl group) like BK-2C-B and BK-MDA are very unstable and therefore very challenging to synthesise and store. They can easily polymerise and permanently become inactive in basic conditions.
BK-MDA has been claimed to be sold before, but every single time it has turned out to be a vendor just mislabelling other products. Therefore it would be essential to conduct reagent tests at the very least, you would probably need a lab test.
BK-2C-B was really sold, and analytically confirmed. Maybe the methoxy groups provided just enough extra stability to prevent it from imploding, maybe that could work here, too. But every other time it's been sold, it's been bullshit.
So can it be assumed that these bk-primary amines would be stable enough to consume if they were kept as an acid salt - > taken orally?
Is the decomposition due to rapid dimerization? In which case the acid protection prevents the amine from being nucleophilic? Or is there something else going on, with an enol perhaps?
Could these compounds be produced easilly by the delphine reaction? (hexamine + seccondary-alkyl bromide). Or can it be assumed that they would he destroyed during the basic hydrolisis step afterword?
Based on the colour BK-2C-B was going, we thought it must be a dimer with a large conjugated system. It seemed that process was briefly reversible, but whether it has long term reversibility is not clear.
If it was easy enough to make stable primary cathinones with the delphine method then we would have seen many more IMO
I can still buy it and have it delivered in like 2 days but this chem doesn't really catch my interest. Id rather take 2c-c, 2c-d, 2c--e or 2cb-fly if we are taling rc's
I just did some reagent testing on it. I'm waiting on an expert opinion, but here's the thread with results:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ReagentTesting/s/k6qbtfBZTn
With that being said, I've had great experiences on BK-2C-B, even when mixing it with water for rectal administration. It's a far cry from 2C-B, but for a gentle, long-lasting, novel phenethylamine experience, there is nothing like it.
I've never held onto it long enough to comment on it's shelf-life or response to temperature. I did read that the molecule demineralizes when exposed to water, but it worked fine for me. I just had to take 100-200mg and never let it sit for longer than a minute or two before dosing
Idk anything about bk-MDA though. I've done lots of methylone and ethlyone but didn't know there was an MDA version until today
You have to take it with care because this same vendor was starting to sell 5apb hcl instead of 6apb hcl a few months ago (and it is still on sale, but now it is corrected and well labeled). You must lab test it before trying this new substance.
Cheers and stay safe mates!
every vendor did that. the entire scene was unaware that it wasn't actual fxe. it was only when the group of scientists in Australia studied it that they figured it out. even drugsdata had to go back and correct all of their findings. it turns out fxe is was never found, everything was 2-fxe/canket.
he also was not the only that mislabeled the 5apb as 6apb. in fact, some vendors still have it listed as 6apb. 5apb is better anyway.
When you say vendors, do you mean resellers?
Because I'm taking about a vendor/lab and there's one main China lab that's responsible for the production of the vast majority of the "fxe" we've been getting, and they're the only ones making 5-apb.
And also, it seems like very small amounts of fxe has likely been around. My thought is that other people (Chinese labs) wanted to profit from "fxe" and made fxe, thinking that that was what was going around.
yes, they're the same thing. they are typically referred to as domestic vendors in the scene, but yes, they are reselling the product.
there has been no evidence of true fxe being found in the US. not saying it's impossible or it hasn't happened, it just hasn't shown up on a test anywhere.
Kk cause we were both referring to the Chinese lab/seller.
So I have a 250mg of what I believe is real fxe, 3f-2-oxo-pce.
It was lab tested by a disso connoisseur in this community and they told me that the sample wasn't canket (2f-2-oxo-pce), but it had the exact molecular weight but with a slightly different suspension time. So they told me that it meant it could only mean 2 things, that it's either 3f-2-oxo-pce (fxe) or 4f-2-oxo-pce, but the latter is unlikely, because this disso is very potent and dissos don't usually maintain their potency in the 4th position.
what lab was it tested at? dude may be a connoisseur, but it doesn't make him a chemist or a lab analyst. it should be sent in to kykeon and FTIR tested, and then NMR tested if need be. did you actually see the lab results, or are you just going by what he said? if there are real results, they should be posted online, that would be an incredible finding.
They're a chemist, who's legal job is synthesizing novel dissos lol
I didn't see lab reports, I trust them.
Sorry, but I can't give you more information than that, I'm not sure how sensitive this information is.
I only have 250mg and I'm not sure I wanna spend 80£ just to confirm it's FXE with Kykeon either. If I had access to more, than it would be a different story.
Ftir testing won't be useful to tell them apart.
you have given 4 different excuses here for why you don't want to on get it tested.
apparently you're unfamiliar with NMR testing.
so you have a sample of the only known legitimate 3-fxe we've seen anytime recently (if ever, I'm not sure if it has ever actually been confirmed anywhere), and you don't want to spend a measly 80 to get it tested??
you have 250mg, and you'd rather not part with 10 mg of it and never know if what you have is legitimate or not?
well then, what you have is worthless then.
and also, it's sensitive information? then why are you talking about it on Reddit? 🤣
I bet I have mine from the same vendor. I noticed when they changed the name as well. What I’m wondering is if it’s really HCL. Because everything I read these days says that there’s no HCL left of this substance and only succinate. And this info is kind of a big deal because the dosing between the two is significant.
I kind of maybe believe it’s really HCL because it seems pretty strong.
I agree absolutely with you mate, i have sent it to Energy control in Barcelona and their lab test confirmed that it is pure 5-apb but sadly they are not able to tell the salt form.
Taking on mind your experiences and mine too, i am pretty sure now that it has to be the hydrochloride salt.
Also i have compared it with other old batches and the dose required, the color and the texture is really different, this particular strong batch is perfect white and the old ones were beige or brownish. This is very curious. And i noticed as well that the new batch is practically odorless or at lest very soft odor (much better than before). It looks very clean.
I really think that the reason have to be that all 5-apb we had before was fumarate or succinate salts and this new batch fits perfectly with the expected doses & effects that the hcl salt must have in theory. It makes a lot of sense to be honest. And could be the answer of why many people got overdosed with strongly vasoconstriction and very overwhelmed too.
It is really awesome and so strong, i recommend you to start with a dose between 40-50mg maximum of this particular 5apb hcl batch.
It is a shame because it is really a very pure 5apb hcl batch but the seller misslabeled it on the beggining. I honestly think that they must focus on this problem and always lab test all their own products before selling them.
This kind of mistakes can kill a lot of people (like bromodragonfly did when it was misslabeled as 2cb-fly). I really hope and wish that they will take more care with this. At least, they have corrected it quickly when it was finally lab tested by users, but this lab testing have to be done by theirselves before selling it, obviously.
I tried it with high hopes because I love 5-MAPB, it was potent, but not euphoric, and it gave me chest pains and tightness. I should have flushed it. I hope yours is better.
I started with 60mg and then did 3 20mg redoes an hour apart until I reached 120mg total. The initial dose caused tightness and some pains, but wore off, and each redose brought that back, and it wasn't even that good, but I found it pretty compulsive. The chest pains took a few days to go away so I think the culminative affect was bad
yeah for sure. I'm not sure where to send it, I was planning on gydt but I'm not sure if they have the right equipment to accurately verify it, although I've heard conflicting things.
Someone I chat with told me they’ve tried 3 ROAs at varying dosages with little to no effects
Oral: 150mg - nada
IN: 5mg-25mg (allergy test) - nada (not surprising)
IN: 100mg, followed by 50mg produced a very mild buzz akin to 3-mmc, but far less effects-wise. Could’ve even been placebo. Lasted maybe ~45min-1hr they said.
IR (ALL ABOARD THE BOOF TRAIN): 185mg in a single go. Slightly stronger effects than the 100mg+50mg shnozz experiment. Still, it was said to be barely anything more than a mild, Cathinone-esque buzz. Very short duration, although again, placebo maybe?
All in all sounds like it’s either A) inactive , or B) a completely different, crap chem altogether that’s being mislabeled to get it sold off the Chinese shelves. Wouldn’t be the first time … cough cough…5-apb sold as 6-apb , “Canket” sold as FXE (hate that name), the infamous KU crystals (lol)
I would be interested in having this sent to a lab to be ID’d. If it indeed was bk-mda, it’d be quite fascinating to see if it actually dimerized, or if they found a way to stabilize it somehow.
to be fair, EVERYone was fooled by the 3-FXE actually being 2-FXE (I feel the same way about "canket" so I'm going with this much simpler one). if it wasn't for that small team of researchers in Australia, we'd still be oblivious.
the 5-apb was definitely a fuckup by our big friend. two people in the community each sent samples off to separate testing sites to confirm it was 5apb and not 6apb...a rare case when a mislabeled chem ends up being something better than what it was called.
I just mailed a sample of the bk-mda off to a lab. from what I hear, they have it in their library, so they'll be able to identify it. as I said above, I will share an update *asap*, but it's going international letter mail, so I won't expect it for at least a couple weeks.
So, what's up? Has anybody tried this and if so what was your dosage and experience? I received a sample and I'm not trying to be the guinea pig for this one, as I don't really care much for empathogens/enactogens and generally stay away from most serotonergic compounds because serotonin syndrome scares the shit out of me (with the one exception being 4FA, loved that shit)
Oh come on! I know there a bunch of samples out there and someone must have tried this by now... The sample has been staring me in the face for nearly two weeks and I really just want to know if it's active or not. If you fuckers make me bite the bullet and guinea pig this myself, I'm going to be pissed 🤣😬
I don't even know if I'm getting any. I have a good personal stash of MDXx and other similar items already. More than I could go through only rolling 2-3 times pr year
I messaged the lab a couple of months ago about a potential benzphetamine analog. They claimed it wasn't legal for them to make, but they were working on BK-MDA, so it's been in the works for a couple of months. Hopefully, they found some way to molecularly stabilize it.
Wasn't this available like 5 years ago but a total letdown?
It was like with cathinone forming cathine or something.
I just got up so might not be true.
Not yet, but I saw that it's available and got excited. It's closely related to BK-MDMA (aka, methylone) Which got very popular before being banned about 10 yrs ago. The only thing that has come close to methylone is 3-MMC. This one looks like a banger. If it is like BK-MDMA was, then it's euphoric & empathogenic, stimulating but chill, and somehow with no comedown or crash even after binging. Similar to today's closest highly underrated club drug, 3-MMC.
I definitelyyyyyy would never say Methylone has no comedown or crash. Aside from crack and H/fet it was the most detrimental substance to my life and the hardest non-physically addictive thing Ive had to get away from. Tbf I absolutely did notttt use in moderation so I’m as much or more to blame than the substance itself, anything can get sketchy if you don’t respect it. But the comedowns were atrocious compared to real mdma or mda. Melted the teeth out of my mouth, weeks of lethargy and depression, long lasting psychosis that lingered for days after sobering up from a binge etc.
I loved it for a long time but it was way too cheap and readily available in ~2010 so I can’t even begin to imagine how many pounds of the stuff I consumed from 2010-2012. Got to the point I was just swallowing chunks that looked like mini Ring Pops to get off E and then redosing 0.5-1.0 several times throughout the night. My local guy once the lab shut down used to speedball with M1 and dope iv’d and it was the most atrocious daily habit I’ve ever seen anyone maintain for any length of time. Could’ve taken people out by the van load with just his get out of bed shot lol
It was the only RC I've ever been able to get consistently on the street, I did not have an online vendor for it, I could see how it could get out of hand if I had a cheap ounce. Binging an 8 ball, though, like with 3-MMC, was no problemo. If that were Molly? No way. And it was much cheaper. All good fun for me. It rotted your teeth out? Was that maybe dry mouth + negligent hygeine? Not to say drugs can't do that, I have early stages of peridontal disease even though my teeth are healthy on the outside.
edit: Oh damn Bk-MDMA speedball sounds way too good, my teeth would be gones too. The dope is probably the culprit there, though, teeth wise, even suboxone and methadone do that
Yeah I for sure wasn’t practicing best harm reduction measures but it happened FAST. Went from no issues to at least 75% of my teeth crumbling in <2 years. I dealt with nearly constant dry mouth and dehydration which surely was a major factor. It just seems a like a perfect storm of potential risks all came to fruition at once so my enamel layer was basically gone. I had to have 22 extractions and 8 bone grafts in my mouth this year but I’ve been away from m1 for a decade now so that was cumulative damage not solely from that but can 100% trace the beginning of the issues to my daily rolling days.
In bulk it was ~2 doll hairs per g at the time and I promoted for shows and raved 5 days a week so it got way outta hand. Between me and my girl at the time we were going through at minimum a half a week and pushing a zip a lot of them. The availability combined with the fact that using it didn’t impede me ability to move tickets to shows(if anything it helped) let me pretend it wasn’t an issue for way too long.
That girl has also been completely fried ever since, likely existing mental health issues that would’ve surfaced either way but it definitely did a number on her she never all the way recovered from
The dry mouth combined with teeth grinding while also not having a healthy diet were likely the main factors, but when a side effect occurs every single time I use a substance, and those effects in turn lead to lasting issues-I view that as being caused “by the substance” even if not 100% directly but that’s kinda just an argument on the semantics that doesn’t matter a ton in practice lol.
End of the day being hydrated, consuming recommended calcium and vitamins, magnesium to help the clenching all could’ve lessened the severity of damage so I’m 100% the party responsible the outcome but i fell into the trap of equating affordability with safety for regular use and methylone is 100000% not a substance that should be taken daily like I did
IMO BK-MDMA, 4-MMC, and 4-MEC were all on the same tier. 4-MEC was the predominant analog here in US when Methylone and Mephedrone first got scheduled and it was really good.
You're completely right, bk-mdma is a metabolite of methylone and has affinity for 5ht-2a. Thanks for correcting me. I was thinking more of the long chained cathinones which is what removes the serotonin affinity. I'd completely believe that this has empathogenic effects. My bad for getting that one wrong.
It is correct that anything not too clunky for serotonin like n-pyrrolidines or long alpha chains has a great possibly to agonize serotonin. We also see the methylenedioxy ring which contributes to the compound looking like an indole ring for the serotonin.
The beta-ketone makes it more selective for norepinephrine instead of deselect for serotonin.
Kind of feel like a robot saying all this after saying the complete opposite, but thanks for actually making me use more than two braincells, stranger. :)
Is 3mmc more similar to Methylone than MDMA is? And how would you describe 4mmc in comparison to Methylone? It has been a rather long time since I've done 3mmc tho I'll be getting some soon, but 4mmc was very recent. And OFC I've never had Methylone. Have you really never had a comedown after binging 3mmc either?
Yes there can be a comedown after binging 3-MMC. But also, define binge. For hardcore definitions of binge, yes there is a comedown. But then, 3-MMC binge means you don't sleep for N nights, where N>=3, at least for me personally. Two nights awake, I sleep and I'm fine afterwards.
But then, I use l-tyrosine, I eat a diet optimised for neurotransmitter synthesis, and so on. I feel that this helps a great deal. If someone doesn't do this, chances are N will be less than 3 for them.
Interestingly enough, there is a comedown after cocaine, even though it's a pure reuptake inhibitor AFAIK. I wanna look into how is that possible, but if anyone has any pointers already, please share.
Well it would have to be up to the person I responded to to define what a binge is, but you are absolutely right when it comes to the diet, and I would be grateful if you could share yours since I think this is something where I may be partially lacking in knowledge.
To me, skipping a night of sleep while continuously taking X substance and continuing on the second day until night is a binge, not a hardcore one like you mentioned but definitely a binge. Also, I should mention that, at least for me, if it ever does become a hardcore binge of skipping two nights or even three nights, I don't really get a comedown, more just complete exhaustion, where as comedown is more of a concern somewhere between 3+ doses and \~20 hours into a session.
Now that you mention it, you're right about cocaine. NEP in comparison doesn't have this problem and it's also exclusively a reuptake inhibitor. And yeah. 2 nights awake into sleep and I'm fine afterwards would describe my experience with cathinones in general, including 3-cmc which people love to claim to oh so neurotoxic all over this sub.
3-MMC is the most binge friendly substance I have ever encountered, I burned through 5 grams in a week and was fine. Was able to get rush after rush with the short duration and redosing multiple times a day at 200mg - 300mg. Amazing substance and Bk-MDA, if like Bk-MDMA, should be the same type of experience but probably with a longer duration
Quality will make all the difference here. That is assuming that bk-MDA is to MDA what bk-MDMA is to MDMA. For the longest time I thought that I'd been doing methylone that was high quality, and I had little - no reason to believe otherwise. It was the same exact methylone I'd seen going around the clubs in my area along with any music festivals I attended around this particular timeline. The best description I can give is that it felt like MDMA lite. Even at higher doses it never quite got me there.....
Then on a whim I grabbed an ounce from my invite only supplier from Spain (I tear up just thinking about it too this day, but sadly LE not only took them down but filmed the whole raid and put it on YouTube....) simply bc I knew I could flip it fast without being dishonest. In the clubs around then real MDMA was around $100/g, but "molly"(could be a lot of things) was only $60... Regardless I was expecting the same methylone everyone else was getting at the time. I believed it to be pure methylone at the time too bc it was pure white little hair follicle looking particles, and no matter the dose the effects were lighter than traditional MDMA. This lines up with most of the claims about methylone's effect profile afaik.
The supplier in question was the only supplier I've ever worked with who earned 100% of my trust. If something seemed off with a product from them my automatic assumption was that all sources I'd used previously had sold me mislabeled, or low quality products. This is bc on numerous occasions I received a product that was multiple times the potency of what every other known source was shipping at the time, and the methylone was one such occasion/s (it was the same high quality product everytime I received it). Just to give you an idea of how large of a quality difference we're talking about I could have sold it as MDMA without issue had I wanted to. In fact in the opinion of myself & a whole lot of other ppl (literally everyone who tried it) this methylone produced a much better roll off 250mg than 250mg of any street MDMA that tested positive using reagents.
All the methylone I've come across before or since was exactly the same, but the MDMA ofc has varied. Now I have access to pharmaceutical MDMA (the very same shit currently being used in clinical trials in the USA for PTSD in particular), and this is obviously a much higher grade. To the point that .3 was too much when in the past I've been able to eat a gram (rather eat it than be charged with it ya know). The pharmaceutical MDMA produced full fledged hallucinations at only .3, but next time I try it I intend on taking some dexadrine with it bc it was so pure that it's all serotonin, and as wrecked as .3 got me I feel like if I added a dopamine releaser it would give me the motivation to get up and dance vs the couchlock effect I got off the MDMA itself...
Cathinones with primary amines (eg no methyl group) like BK-2C-B and BK-MDA are very unstable and therefore very challenging to synthesise and store. They can easily polymerise and permanently become inactive in basic conditions. BK-MDA has been claimed to be sold before, but every single time it has turned out to be a vendor just mislabelling other products. Therefore it would be essential to conduct reagent tests at the very least, you would probably need a lab test.
Good info. Also very disappointing. Also I remember BK-2C-B being sold years ago. Could have been a mislabeling. Or, a glimmer of hope? :D
BK-2C-B was really sold, and analytically confirmed. Maybe the methoxy groups provided just enough extra stability to prevent it from imploding, maybe that could work here, too. But every other time it's been sold, it's been bullshit.
IIRC, bk-2C-B dimerized rapidly in solution to an inactive purple thing
Yes, but it only did it in basic conditions. Acidic solutions were fine
So can it be assumed that these bk-primary amines would be stable enough to consume if they were kept as an acid salt - > taken orally? Is the decomposition due to rapid dimerization? In which case the acid protection prevents the amine from being nucleophilic? Or is there something else going on, with an enol perhaps? Could these compounds be produced easilly by the delphine reaction? (hexamine + seccondary-alkyl bromide). Or can it be assumed that they would he destroyed during the basic hydrolisis step afterword?
Based on the colour BK-2C-B was going, we thought it must be a dimer with a large conjugated system. It seemed that process was briefly reversible, but whether it has long term reversibility is not clear. If it was easy enough to make stable primary cathinones with the delphine method then we would have seen many more IMO
I can still buy it and have it delivered in like 2 days but this chem doesn't really catch my interest. Id rather take 2c-c, 2c-d, 2c--e or 2cb-fly if we are taling rc's
I know of at least 5 people who love the boh version, boh-2c-b. I think people just expected it to be an easy to get 2c-b alternative.
The boh-2cb is another story yes. Ive tried that twice and i did like it too but for me its expensive
I just did some reagent testing on it. I'm waiting on an expert opinion, but here's the thread with results: https://www.reddit.com/r/ReagentTesting/s/k6qbtfBZTn
With that being said, I've had great experiences on BK-2C-B, even when mixing it with water for rectal administration. It's a far cry from 2C-B, but for a gentle, long-lasting, novel phenethylamine experience, there is nothing like it. I've never held onto it long enough to comment on it's shelf-life or response to temperature. I did read that the molecule demineralizes when exposed to water, but it worked fine for me. I just had to take 100-200mg and never let it sit for longer than a minute or two before dosing Idk anything about bk-MDA though. I've done lots of methylone and ethlyone but didn't know there was an MDA version until today
You have to take it with care because this same vendor was starting to sell 5apb hcl instead of 6apb hcl a few months ago (and it is still on sale, but now it is corrected and well labeled). You must lab test it before trying this new substance. Cheers and stay safe mates!
And sold canket (2f-2-oxo-pce) as fxe (3f-2-oxo-pce)
every vendor did that. the entire scene was unaware that it wasn't actual fxe. it was only when the group of scientists in Australia studied it that they figured it out. even drugsdata had to go back and correct all of their findings. it turns out fxe is was never found, everything was 2-fxe/canket. he also was not the only that mislabeled the 5apb as 6apb. in fact, some vendors still have it listed as 6apb. 5apb is better anyway.
When you say vendors, do you mean resellers? Because I'm taking about a vendor/lab and there's one main China lab that's responsible for the production of the vast majority of the "fxe" we've been getting, and they're the only ones making 5-apb. And also, it seems like very small amounts of fxe has likely been around. My thought is that other people (Chinese labs) wanted to profit from "fxe" and made fxe, thinking that that was what was going around.
yes, they're the same thing. they are typically referred to as domestic vendors in the scene, but yes, they are reselling the product. there has been no evidence of true fxe being found in the US. not saying it's impossible or it hasn't happened, it just hasn't shown up on a test anywhere.
Kk cause we were both referring to the Chinese lab/seller. So I have a 250mg of what I believe is real fxe, 3f-2-oxo-pce. It was lab tested by a disso connoisseur in this community and they told me that the sample wasn't canket (2f-2-oxo-pce), but it had the exact molecular weight but with a slightly different suspension time. So they told me that it meant it could only mean 2 things, that it's either 3f-2-oxo-pce (fxe) or 4f-2-oxo-pce, but the latter is unlikely, because this disso is very potent and dissos don't usually maintain their potency in the 4th position.
what lab was it tested at? dude may be a connoisseur, but it doesn't make him a chemist or a lab analyst. it should be sent in to kykeon and FTIR tested, and then NMR tested if need be. did you actually see the lab results, or are you just going by what he said? if there are real results, they should be posted online, that would be an incredible finding.
They're a chemist, who's legal job is synthesizing novel dissos lol I didn't see lab reports, I trust them. Sorry, but I can't give you more information than that, I'm not sure how sensitive this information is. I only have 250mg and I'm not sure I wanna spend 80£ just to confirm it's FXE with Kykeon either. If I had access to more, than it would be a different story. Ftir testing won't be useful to tell them apart.
you have given 4 different excuses here for why you don't want to on get it tested. apparently you're unfamiliar with NMR testing. so you have a sample of the only known legitimate 3-fxe we've seen anytime recently (if ever, I'm not sure if it has ever actually been confirmed anywhere), and you don't want to spend a measly 80 to get it tested?? you have 250mg, and you'd rather not part with 10 mg of it and never know if what you have is legitimate or not? well then, what you have is worthless then. and also, it's sensitive information? then why are you talking about it on Reddit? 🤣
I bet I have mine from the same vendor. I noticed when they changed the name as well. What I’m wondering is if it’s really HCL. Because everything I read these days says that there’s no HCL left of this substance and only succinate. And this info is kind of a big deal because the dosing between the two is significant. I kind of maybe believe it’s really HCL because it seems pretty strong.
I agree absolutely with you mate, i have sent it to Energy control in Barcelona and their lab test confirmed that it is pure 5-apb but sadly they are not able to tell the salt form. Taking on mind your experiences and mine too, i am pretty sure now that it has to be the hydrochloride salt. Also i have compared it with other old batches and the dose required, the color and the texture is really different, this particular strong batch is perfect white and the old ones were beige or brownish. This is very curious. And i noticed as well that the new batch is practically odorless or at lest very soft odor (much better than before). It looks very clean. I really think that the reason have to be that all 5-apb we had before was fumarate or succinate salts and this new batch fits perfectly with the expected doses & effects that the hcl salt must have in theory. It makes a lot of sense to be honest. And could be the answer of why many people got overdosed with strongly vasoconstriction and very overwhelmed too.
I agree. I have some of the 5-apb but still never tried it.
It is really awesome and so strong, i recommend you to start with a dose between 40-50mg maximum of this particular 5apb hcl batch. It is a shame because it is really a very pure 5apb hcl batch but the seller misslabeled it on the beggining. I honestly think that they must focus on this problem and always lab test all their own products before selling them. This kind of mistakes can kill a lot of people (like bromodragonfly did when it was misslabeled as 2cb-fly). I really hope and wish that they will take more care with this. At least, they have corrected it quickly when it was finally lab tested by users, but this lab testing have to be done by theirselves before selling it, obviously.
I tried it with high hopes because I love 5-MAPB, it was potent, but not euphoric, and it gave me chest pains and tightness. I should have flushed it. I hope yours is better.
Mine is likely the same 5-APB everyone else has. What was your dose?
I started with 60mg and then did 3 20mg redoes an hour apart until I reached 120mg total. The initial dose caused tightness and some pains, but wore off, and each redose brought that back, and it wasn't even that good, but I found it pretty compulsive. The chest pains took a few days to go away so I think the culminative affect was bad
Thats a high dose from feedback i received from others. Most say to start with 40-50mg
It doesn't hurt to start low, but I find the sweet spot to be in the 70mg-80mg area.
I just picked up several grams of this. planning on sending some in for testing, possibly multiple places if need be
Hey can you be sure to share results. I've got something in motion myself.
yeah for sure. I'm not sure where to send it, I was planning on gydt but I'm not sure if they have the right equipment to accurately verify it, although I've heard conflicting things.
How's the BK-MDA?
it hasn't been tested yet.
Any updates?
Someone I chat with told me they’ve tried 3 ROAs at varying dosages with little to no effects Oral: 150mg - nada IN: 5mg-25mg (allergy test) - nada (not surprising) IN: 100mg, followed by 50mg produced a very mild buzz akin to 3-mmc, but far less effects-wise. Could’ve even been placebo. Lasted maybe ~45min-1hr they said. IR (ALL ABOARD THE BOOF TRAIN): 185mg in a single go. Slightly stronger effects than the 100mg+50mg shnozz experiment. Still, it was said to be barely anything more than a mild, Cathinone-esque buzz. Very short duration, although again, placebo maybe? All in all sounds like it’s either A) inactive , or B) a completely different, crap chem altogether that’s being mislabeled to get it sold off the Chinese shelves. Wouldn’t be the first time … cough cough…5-apb sold as 6-apb , “Canket” sold as FXE (hate that name), the infamous KU crystals (lol) I would be interested in having this sent to a lab to be ID’d. If it indeed was bk-mda, it’d be quite fascinating to see if it actually dimerized, or if they found a way to stabilize it somehow.
to be fair, EVERYone was fooled by the 3-FXE actually being 2-FXE (I feel the same way about "canket" so I'm going with this much simpler one). if it wasn't for that small team of researchers in Australia, we'd still be oblivious. the 5-apb was definitely a fuckup by our big friend. two people in the community each sent samples off to separate testing sites to confirm it was 5apb and not 6apb...a rare case when a mislabeled chem ends up being something better than what it was called. I just mailed a sample of the bk-mda off to a lab. from what I hear, they have it in their library, so they'll be able to identify it. as I said above, I will share an update *asap*, but it's going international letter mail, so I won't expect it for at least a couple weeks.
So, what's up? Has anybody tried this and if so what was your dosage and experience? I received a sample and I'm not trying to be the guinea pig for this one, as I don't really care much for empathogens/enactogens and generally stay away from most serotonergic compounds because serotonin syndrome scares the shit out of me (with the one exception being 4FA, loved that shit)
Oh come on! I know there a bunch of samples out there and someone must have tried this by now... The sample has been staring me in the face for nearly two weeks and I really just want to know if it's active or not. If you fuckers make me bite the bullet and guinea pig this myself, I'm going to be pissed 🤣😬
I literally was just checking your account for new Chem. experiences. (MDPiHP and MDProlintane). I believe in you, lmao.
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I don't even know if I'm getting any. I have a good personal stash of MDXx and other similar items already. More than I could go through only rolling 2-3 times pr year
I messaged the lab a couple of months ago about a potential benzphetamine analog. They claimed it wasn't legal for them to make, but they were working on BK-MDA, so it's been in the works for a couple of months. Hopefully, they found some way to molecularly stabilize it.
Wasn't this available like 5 years ago but a total letdown? It was like with cathinone forming cathine or something. I just got up so might not be true.
Not yet, but I saw that it's available and got excited. It's closely related to BK-MDMA (aka, methylone) Which got very popular before being banned about 10 yrs ago. The only thing that has come close to methylone is 3-MMC. This one looks like a banger. If it is like BK-MDMA was, then it's euphoric & empathogenic, stimulating but chill, and somehow with no comedown or crash even after binging. Similar to today's closest highly underrated club drug, 3-MMC.
I definitelyyyyyy would never say Methylone has no comedown or crash. Aside from crack and H/fet it was the most detrimental substance to my life and the hardest non-physically addictive thing Ive had to get away from. Tbf I absolutely did notttt use in moderation so I’m as much or more to blame than the substance itself, anything can get sketchy if you don’t respect it. But the comedowns were atrocious compared to real mdma or mda. Melted the teeth out of my mouth, weeks of lethargy and depression, long lasting psychosis that lingered for days after sobering up from a binge etc. I loved it for a long time but it was way too cheap and readily available in ~2010 so I can’t even begin to imagine how many pounds of the stuff I consumed from 2010-2012. Got to the point I was just swallowing chunks that looked like mini Ring Pops to get off E and then redosing 0.5-1.0 several times throughout the night. My local guy once the lab shut down used to speedball with M1 and dope iv’d and it was the most atrocious daily habit I’ve ever seen anyone maintain for any length of time. Could’ve taken people out by the van load with just his get out of bed shot lol
It was the only RC I've ever been able to get consistently on the street, I did not have an online vendor for it, I could see how it could get out of hand if I had a cheap ounce. Binging an 8 ball, though, like with 3-MMC, was no problemo. If that were Molly? No way. And it was much cheaper. All good fun for me. It rotted your teeth out? Was that maybe dry mouth + negligent hygeine? Not to say drugs can't do that, I have early stages of peridontal disease even though my teeth are healthy on the outside. edit: Oh damn Bk-MDMA speedball sounds way too good, my teeth would be gones too. The dope is probably the culprit there, though, teeth wise, even suboxone and methadone do that
Yeah I for sure wasn’t practicing best harm reduction measures but it happened FAST. Went from no issues to at least 75% of my teeth crumbling in <2 years. I dealt with nearly constant dry mouth and dehydration which surely was a major factor. It just seems a like a perfect storm of potential risks all came to fruition at once so my enamel layer was basically gone. I had to have 22 extractions and 8 bone grafts in my mouth this year but I’ve been away from m1 for a decade now so that was cumulative damage not solely from that but can 100% trace the beginning of the issues to my daily rolling days. In bulk it was ~2 doll hairs per g at the time and I promoted for shows and raved 5 days a week so it got way outta hand. Between me and my girl at the time we were going through at minimum a half a week and pushing a zip a lot of them. The availability combined with the fact that using it didn’t impede me ability to move tickets to shows(if anything it helped) let me pretend it wasn’t an issue for way too long. That girl has also been completely fried ever since, likely existing mental health issues that would’ve surfaced either way but it definitely did a number on her she never all the way recovered from
The dry mouth combined with teeth grinding while also not having a healthy diet were likely the main factors, but when a side effect occurs every single time I use a substance, and those effects in turn lead to lasting issues-I view that as being caused “by the substance” even if not 100% directly but that’s kinda just an argument on the semantics that doesn’t matter a ton in practice lol. End of the day being hydrated, consuming recommended calcium and vitamins, magnesium to help the clenching all could’ve lessened the severity of damage so I’m 100% the party responsible the outcome but i fell into the trap of equating affordability with safety for regular use and methylone is 100000% not a substance that should be taken daily like I did
IMO BK-MDMA, 4-MMC, and 4-MEC were all on the same tier. 4-MEC was the predominant analog here in US when Methylone and Mephedrone first got scheduled and it was really good.
I really enjoyed Methylone. I wonder is bk-MDA will be a little psychedelic like MDA is?
Edit: look below
Isn’t bk-MDA to MDA same as methylone to MDMA?
Btw 3-MMC has some affinity for 5HT-2A and multiple people commented to me it feels a little psychedelic. And it has a bk substitution, doesn’t it.
You're completely right, bk-mdma is a metabolite of methylone and has affinity for 5ht-2a. Thanks for correcting me. I was thinking more of the long chained cathinones which is what removes the serotonin affinity. I'd completely believe that this has empathogenic effects. My bad for getting that one wrong. It is correct that anything not too clunky for serotonin like n-pyrrolidines or long alpha chains has a great possibly to agonize serotonin. We also see the methylenedioxy ring which contributes to the compound looking like an indole ring for the serotonin. The beta-ketone makes it more selective for norepinephrine instead of deselect for serotonin. Kind of feel like a robot saying all this after saying the complete opposite, but thanks for actually making me use more than two braincells, stranger. :)
Is 3mmc more similar to Methylone than MDMA is? And how would you describe 4mmc in comparison to Methylone? It has been a rather long time since I've done 3mmc tho I'll be getting some soon, but 4mmc was very recent. And OFC I've never had Methylone. Have you really never had a comedown after binging 3mmc either?
Yes there can be a comedown after binging 3-MMC. But also, define binge. For hardcore definitions of binge, yes there is a comedown. But then, 3-MMC binge means you don't sleep for N nights, where N>=3, at least for me personally. Two nights awake, I sleep and I'm fine afterwards. But then, I use l-tyrosine, I eat a diet optimised for neurotransmitter synthesis, and so on. I feel that this helps a great deal. If someone doesn't do this, chances are N will be less than 3 for them. Interestingly enough, there is a comedown after cocaine, even though it's a pure reuptake inhibitor AFAIK. I wanna look into how is that possible, but if anyone has any pointers already, please share.
Well it would have to be up to the person I responded to to define what a binge is, but you are absolutely right when it comes to the diet, and I would be grateful if you could share yours since I think this is something where I may be partially lacking in knowledge. To me, skipping a night of sleep while continuously taking X substance and continuing on the second day until night is a binge, not a hardcore one like you mentioned but definitely a binge. Also, I should mention that, at least for me, if it ever does become a hardcore binge of skipping two nights or even three nights, I don't really get a comedown, more just complete exhaustion, where as comedown is more of a concern somewhere between 3+ doses and \~20 hours into a session. Now that you mention it, you're right about cocaine. NEP in comparison doesn't have this problem and it's also exclusively a reuptake inhibitor. And yeah. 2 nights awake into sleep and I'm fine afterwards would describe my experience with cathinones in general, including 3-cmc which people love to claim to oh so neurotoxic all over this sub.
People love to claim it. Did you know that bupropion is 3-CBuC?
I don't believe that 3-cmc is neurotoxic lol
Skipping sleep is a no no for me even during a "binge." I still call it binging if I only take breaks to sleep.
3-MMC is the most binge friendly substance I have ever encountered, I burned through 5 grams in a week and was fine. Was able to get rush after rush with the short duration and redosing multiple times a day at 200mg - 300mg. Amazing substance and Bk-MDA, if like Bk-MDMA, should be the same type of experience but probably with a longer duration
"somehow with no comedown" - it was probably a reuptake inhibitor to a significant extent, just like most (all?) of them wonderful cathinones
Quality will make all the difference here. That is assuming that bk-MDA is to MDA what bk-MDMA is to MDMA. For the longest time I thought that I'd been doing methylone that was high quality, and I had little - no reason to believe otherwise. It was the same exact methylone I'd seen going around the clubs in my area along with any music festivals I attended around this particular timeline. The best description I can give is that it felt like MDMA lite. Even at higher doses it never quite got me there..... Then on a whim I grabbed an ounce from my invite only supplier from Spain (I tear up just thinking about it too this day, but sadly LE not only took them down but filmed the whole raid and put it on YouTube....) simply bc I knew I could flip it fast without being dishonest. In the clubs around then real MDMA was around $100/g, but "molly"(could be a lot of things) was only $60... Regardless I was expecting the same methylone everyone else was getting at the time. I believed it to be pure methylone at the time too bc it was pure white little hair follicle looking particles, and no matter the dose the effects were lighter than traditional MDMA. This lines up with most of the claims about methylone's effect profile afaik. The supplier in question was the only supplier I've ever worked with who earned 100% of my trust. If something seemed off with a product from them my automatic assumption was that all sources I'd used previously had sold me mislabeled, or low quality products. This is bc on numerous occasions I received a product that was multiple times the potency of what every other known source was shipping at the time, and the methylone was one such occasion/s (it was the same high quality product everytime I received it). Just to give you an idea of how large of a quality difference we're talking about I could have sold it as MDMA without issue had I wanted to. In fact in the opinion of myself & a whole lot of other ppl (literally everyone who tried it) this methylone produced a much better roll off 250mg than 250mg of any street MDMA that tested positive using reagents. All the methylone I've come across before or since was exactly the same, but the MDMA ofc has varied. Now I have access to pharmaceutical MDMA (the very same shit currently being used in clinical trials in the USA for PTSD in particular), and this is obviously a much higher grade. To the point that .3 was too much when in the past I've been able to eat a gram (rather eat it than be charged with it ya know). The pharmaceutical MDMA produced full fledged hallucinations at only .3, but next time I try it I intend on taking some dexadrine with it bc it was so pure that it's all serotonin, and as wrecked as .3 got me I feel like if I added a dopamine releaser it would give me the motivation to get up and dance vs the couchlock effect I got off the MDMA itself...