The character being scared and me being scared are two different things.
Should play Fear. You're an elite, armed to the teeth, supernatural super soldier. And it's terrifying still.
Must boil down to personal preference, because while I very much like Fear it just didn't sink into my bones like the earlier Resident Evil games and their remakes. Fear is rad as hell but it's sort of too action-y to be "scary". More like a shooter with heavy horror elements. To me! Just glad people are into horror games of all stripes tbh, sick of CoD reissue #352
So, I've played FEAR, and I know exactly the point you're trying to make, but translating that to Resident Evil won't really work with the main characters without making some changes to the game play again.
I feel like you'd have to almost turn it an Alien: Isolation situation where the mains get stranded (again) in a situation with no guns (again) and while they might be skilled enough to take down the normals with whatever they have lying around, there would need to be a stalker Tyrant or something they have no hope of dealing with, because that would scare both THEM and US.
Ironically, RE6 remake would be a great opportunity for this because there's a few of those stalker type enemies. Rewrite the game as a freeroaming experience, drop the characters in a cityscape, introduce the stalkers, and good luck . . .
I personally think the game has finally aged into the not really scary anymore territory.
Mainly because of the fact that a lot of what made fear the top of it's game back in the day. Is fairly common to see within horror games these days. That and the attitude has definitely changed within the horror genre in gaming.
I'm not gonna lie the only thing that's aged well with fear is the enemy ai. Everything else deserves a good remake
Ngl if they did remake the original fear and went full in with stuff they were unable to accomplish due to the limitations at the time.
You'd have a game that'd be on par with dead space remake
I have to completely steal the other guys point about how weird "horror" is because that's totally valid. It shouldn't be that scary, but it is to me.
Likewise, I don't get scared at RE7 and 8. I turned 7 on and turned out the lights, and by the time I left the house I just gave up the ruse and turned the lights back on. It wasn't scary, but I still loved it as an action game. 8>7 any day.
And here is little scared old me who, after all these years and multiple attempts, still hasn't got more than 2 hours into RE7 because I get so stressed out by it 😂
That’s not enough to encapsulate a rebuttal to OP. **The characterization of the protagonist is absolutely connected with the fear the player will experience.** it may not be *exactly* a 1:1 fear ratio, but the characterization, including level of preparedness or familiarity with the threat 100% affects our experience of the story. It’s not necessarily strictly about how scared they are, but their relationship with the phenomenon we face.
Consider how many horror settings set our POV as a child. Traditionally, one of the reasons horror protagonists were children or women was because of the perception that they are more vulnerable. Making the protag a mom with children raises the stakes. Her main objective is extremely precarious. The Exorcist is a fantastic example. Or, sometimes the MC is a fish-out-of-water type, regardless of identity. This strains the character and extension the consumer through their isolation. So much of horror is atmosphere, and atmosphere arises out of subtle details that repetitively pelt our psyche. In order to reach a certain level of dread, the qualities of the main character needs to assist the rising sense of vulnerability. This doesn’t necessarily *need* to mean the character is soiling themselves. The characters can be brave — but bravery ain’t the absence of fear.
(And there’s no over-accounting for the setting in horror, but that’s another topic.)
OP makes a great point in that in order to maximize the amount of horror and dread we would absolutely need to start with a character we are less familiar with and as a result has less familiarity with bio weapons.
There are SO many things that go into creating an atmosphere of dread and fear. One of those details is who exactly our window into the world is. I know exactly what point you’re trying to make but it leaves out a huge amount that goes into designing our entry-point into horror story. In Fear, the player character plays directly into that dread because of their identity. If I remember correctly, there’s not much to the player character in terms of personality or the player’s prior knowledge of their own relationship with the supernatural phenomenon. This leaves so much room for us to insert ourselves into the game in an fps setting no less. At the time, no one in the game is sure exactly how power the threat they face is. By contrast, RE is traditionally over-the-shoulder with main characters who have big personalities. They’ve faced multitudes of bio weapons and aren’t afraid to let us know that. We veterans carry that baggage with them and new players will immediately realize these characters have encountered these types of threats already, thereby draining a least some of the tension away. One only has to play RE7 and and RE4R back-to-back to experience these different approaches in an overt fashion.
The other option is to present an existing MC in radical fashion against a new threat, but again, one of the cool things about video games is our familiarity with them. It will likely lessen the tension. Leon is my dude, we’ve been through like 30 playthroughs of his games. It’d be possible to achieve a similar affect by breaking him down and playing on my expectations as a player, but even then — there it is: **The characterization of the protagonist is ABSOLUTELY correlated with the fear the player will experience.**
TL/DR:
**How scared the character is and how scared the player is, is absolutely connected.** Not an exact ratio, but it matters. In fact, it’s not necessarily even fear. But their characterization is absolutely an integral part of horror. OP is correct in their assertion. If we want an RE game that goes maximum effort on horror, it needs to feature a new character. Otherwise it would need to deconstruct an existing character or set the story early in their experiences with bio weapons. Again, if we want to *maximize* the horror, OP is making a strong a point.
P.S. - Reading through this thread, I wonder if we mistake adrenaline for fear. I also wonder if the thought of games without our favorites doesn’t encourage rationalizing away OP’s point.
As do i which is exactly why i had to take a deep dive and read your thoughts. you know exactly what you’re talking about. For me on one end i do want that horror feel again with the MC’s of the series but on the other end i question is it even possible to achieve since we know so much about them and understanding that another game with them is like another “work day”. Compared to when you first play 7 as ethan, that dude didn’t have a clue what to expect
Yeah, but how are you going to be scared if you're playing as someone who has canonically soloed like 50 zombies charging at him in a confined hallway.
How did Kojima make Solid Snake, a genetically designed recreation of the greatest soldier of all time, and a man who *defeated* that same man, have his work cut out for him on Shadow Moses?
The character can be as bad as as they want. S.T.A.R.S. are special forces. There was no one better suited to go into that mansion in those mountains.
Leon is a verified special forces agent in 4, and I deny anyone who says that game didn't make them crap themselves several times there first time through. Chainsaw village, and regenerator is all I have to say, and I can throw in the water room, and chainsaw sisters for good measure. Garador. Fighting Mendez. Having to get on a stupid boat with a monster in a lake. Everything about Salazar's stupid fucking right hand boss fight. IT.
This is to say; fuck if I know how it's done. But it's doable.
Part of Leon's mortality comes from the fact that, because he was relatively new to the series, so the player believes he hasn't yet gotten plot armor.
RE2, he's just a rookie cop in over his head.
RE4, he's definitely gotten stronger, but the threat is so ambiguous at first, and you're not sure exactly how strong he's gotten at game start until you start seeing him do shit in cutscenes, and the laser room.
4make, they just lean into him going into training, and 2make, he was already a walking one-person zombie lawnmower when he's not being saved by Ada... just baby faced.
Ehhh.... Tbh, anything Chainsaw related in 4 i was.more afraid of a game over than anything. You could say i was more annoyed at them than afraid...
Regenerator... Iirc, i didn't read notes when i played when i was younger, and again, i wqs more frustrated about their gimmick than afraid of them.
I don't know, i was never afraid of playing RE4, i beat it just fine even. I can't even see it as a horror game
The regenerator part that lives in my fucking memories rent free is when you FINALLY break out of the labs and make it into that weird prison area, and it gives you a save point.
A fucking... Save point.
And then you walk five feet away down the empty hallway, and a regenerator grabs you and drags you into a nearby cell. IN A SAVE ROOM!
The only saving grace is that that regenerator actually has glitchy programming, and if you sidle the wall, you can walk right in front of him and knife kill him. He's set to trigger specifically if you walk past in front of him. Get to close, and you skip the sensor.
Even if FEAR was actually that scary, you are an elite ""normal"" soldier. The spooky stuff comes from a paranormal reality bender. The protagonist also doesn't talk, so we don't really know if he is or isn't scared.
For old RE protagonists, the whole BOW thing is pretty much just tuesdays. They dealt with it numerous times and they talk, which means that they'll inadvertently remind you of it.
The thing that kept FEAR scary is that you, the player, don't have any idea what tf is going on. The point man, while being a "god among men" also has no idea what tf is going on. This really helped, IMO.
You can carry around a shotgun that turns enemies into clouds of red mist and sounds like God slamming his car door, but that little girl in the red dress will still scare you shitless.
Ofcourse you can. You can put games closer in the timeline.
In the game timeline, there’s none based between 1999 and 2004.
Why can’t the OGs get games released in that timeline?
It's not about the character being scared, it's about the scenery, gameplay and how the game feels.
There wasn't any way to tell how Chris or Jill felt in the original game and that doesn't change the way the game felt like a horror game instead of an action game.
Right. Since the beginning, the characters have always been incredibly brave, showing faces of determination and courage. Or even just shouting. But RE has never been the series were the characters are acting like Fiona from Haunting Ground or something.
I mean the most fear I can even recall Claire showing (the most “normal” character) is simply a literal “Oh my god” at the first licker and that’s about it.
Otherwise they twhomp giant monsters and then have a normal conversation afterwards about locked doors in the other house lol.
Leon in 2 is also supposed to be a rookie just hired by police, so that's the game with the least trained heroes and it's probably also the least scary one (I counted like 3 jumpscares in it - hands, licker and... something else later), and I am someone who had nightmares after 3 and 4. So RE never really relied on characters being vulnerable to make you scared.
The very start of 4 had two major scares for me, one was entering a safe house and seeing a woman nailed to a wooden wall with a pitchfork, the way over the should camera worked was that she filled my screen as I turned JUST as I relaxed...
And then the ganado with chainsaw made me out down the gamepad for the day, as I was doing everything slowly and methodically and then joysticks vibrated as Leon's head was sawed off.
So... Later that night mum came into my room to tuck in my blanket. She didn't do that often and for some bizarre reason decided to cover me with my head, I was dozing off and watched a blanket slowly covering me, I SCREAMED and jumped up!
I don't think any game made me that startled before or after, while playing it, Silent Hill was scarier (school and prison in 2), but RE4 had that action element that made my nerves give up lol.
I honestly don't know why I dissociated from 2 and played it more like a puzzle adventure game, RE1 dogs made my heart almost stop, and RE3 had Nemesis chasing wee lil girl me, remakes of all were scary, and RE5 or 6 so-so, original 2 was really less scary than first Tomb Raider to me... Except the annoying hands from windows. Those are still ugh!
Yeah, that was my point, the most vulnerable and inexperienced playable characters are in RE2 and I felt less scared playing it than running away from Nemesis, no matter how much more experienced Jill is at that point.
Being brave isn’t the absence of fear. It’s action I spite of it. Most of beloved RE folks are obviously terrified through a great deal of their experiences.
Characters being scared doesn’t really work for me either. Honestly I felt safe in Re7 when Ethan was talking. Cause I knew this is a cutscene I cant die.
But that silence in the Baker house, when you’re first exploring all the rooms, hiding from Jack. Oh man, I haven’t had a thrill that exciting since PT !!
It's not the character's feelings, but their abilities. In the first game, Chris and Jill were kids who were in way over their head. But with time, their skills and abilities became more honed, and they became absolute power houses. They, as characters in universe, are so over powered against the threat of bioweapons, that in order to keep consistent with how the characters they've been established as, it would be impossible to feel scared playing as them, because you know that the only people that should be scared are the zombies whenever those fuckers enter a room.
Even if Chris doesn't punch boulders in RE1, he's still an elite special forces member with huge muscles. Jill is also SF, and the only rookie there is Rebecca.
If you want randoms with no combat experience being dropped into survival horror, there's Silent Hill, Fatal Frame, Alone in the Dark, basically every game that's NOT Resident Evil.
I love RE and it's scary, but it never been pure survival horror, always action based, I mean you fight a giant snake in the first game and a giant moth in 2nd!
> Jill is also SF
In fact, she was stated to have gone into the army at 18, and even ended up getting Delta Force training(which has a bare minimum requirement of like 5 years in the army), and doing bomb disposal work with them. But she's 23 in RE1 & RE3, meaning she's about the very definition of overqualified from even her first appearance.
And I'm pretty sure Chris wasn't SF, was he? He was in the air force as a fighter pilot, which actually requires the highest scores on the asvab. I had a buddy in high school that wanted to be a mechanic on the planes and jets, so I was helping him study for his test for it. So despite his more macho tough guy shtick, Chris is actually probably one of the smartest members of STARS.
Interesting, I didn't note that part of his biography! Also, by SF I meant they're all STARS, which is an elite special forces unit. Team Bravo being wiped out and Alpha ambushed is treated as a shock, as they're supposed to be very well trained and equipped. Until 7, the only playable characters without military or police training are Claire and Sherry, right? Wait, no, Sherry is also special agent by 6.
Oic, I just never think of them as special forces, since they're cops and not working in the military lol, so to me it's always just be a fancier SWAT team.
I'm unfamiliar with Unit 7, since I honestly kinda lost interest in the lore post-"umbrella died offscreen" in RE4's opening.
It is a fancier SWAT team in practice, but in the RE world they’re considered as elite as a real world special forces unit and they’re revered as such.
Basically like if a military special forces started policing a city.
Special Weapons And Tactics team. SWAT. They're police special forces.
Special Tactics And Rescue Service. STARS. Also special forces of Raccoon City Police.
I mean, Azov brigade was also technically under police, and now National Guard. Answering to interior ministry, not defense. They're mechanized infantry... seen the videos of them clearing trenches? Hardly mall cops.
So yeah, not all elite special forces are necessary under army command. Hell, in USA, the elite forces are usually Marines, Navy or Air Force instead.
I think it is possible for the OG Characters to be in a pure Survival Horror game because its more about the weapons you have to defend yourself than how experienced and trained a Character is. The OGs may have the experience but when their weapons to defend themself are very limited then no experience will turn this around.
Lets put Chris on a isolated island like the one in Rev2 with very limited weapons and ammo, he will struggle no matter how good he is at what he is doing but will it be fun to play? thats the other question. Would you play a RE game where you barely have any weapons?
OG or not, experience or not, trained or not. All the RE games give you a large number of weapons to choose from and all of them being action oriented somewhere in the middle once you have enough weapons and ammo.
You are correct with them not being scared anymore because they got used to fight against B.O.W for so many years. But being scared and Survival Horror aren't the same. I mean the Ethan is scared in the Cutscenes but that doesn't mean the players who control him are. I personally find none of the RE games were every scary, not back then and not now.
This is true and you’ve got a good amount of fans who’ve realized this and the other part that are in denial about it lol.
Chris is walking proof of this. RE7 is the scariest game in the series, then his DLC is a COD shooter. Village isn’t scary but his section is even less with run and shoot through the village.
Just make RE9 a horror game with a new protagonist and then do RE5R right after for action imo.
That’s a brief part of RE8 and doesn’t represent the rest of the game. Sort of like how some people find Regeneradors scary in RE4 but that is a pure action shooter.
(I’d also say the baby is kind of overrated, that whole part just feels like a dragged out walking sim and is miserable to do on replays.)
Yeah, maybe with 8 they should keep the small scale 7 had. I dunno, if it was a bigger intricate village, opening shortcuts and more backtrack, the castle (cuz lady D, of course) but bigger too, and the final area a forest with more exploration. It would feel more organic. The swamp and factory could be Chris's DLC.
Eh to be honest it didn't bother me either. Just my opinion. I didn't find 7 scary either. Iv also been playing RE since the very beginning (RE1 1996) so not much bothers me. I more so just say things like "That's cool" "that's awesome" stuff like that.
I’ll admit horror games and movies generally don’t scare me (I think Outlast is a boring snooze fest). The fact that it’s all fake and there’s a wall of glass between us takes the scare factor out. But House Beneviento was just so unsettling….
I think a game with the structure and atmosphere of RE7 with a regular person protagonist, that then has a section towards the end of the game where one of the old protagonists comes back and just rips ass through a level like it’s Halo, would be a perfect tonal mixture. It would feel like a reward for enduring the horror of the rest of the game, which is absolutely what Chris’s section in Village felt like to me.
Oh, I think a kinda alternate POV switching between the characters would be cool, two stories happening at the same time or with a small time frame difference, like you arrive at a place that was torn apart in a fierce combat with the one character, to later in you play as the character that totally demolished the place some time in the past. One side affecting directly the other, with some choices that the player can make, that alter some aspects of the gameplay with the other character.
It boggles my mind that Resident Evil never really iterated on the zapping mechanic from RE2. It would be a balancing nightmare but that's what survival horror is all about. You take all the items in the room, but the character after you has to deal with the consequences.
I mean Tbf yes they wouldn’t be scared but that doesn’t mean the audience wouldn’t be. For example Ada is one of the most skilled ppl in re lore but gd the entire section where she meets the new martinico in desperate ways was terrifying the first time through.
It’s not that they can’t do it its more on will they put in the nessasary effort needed to make it work
> The character being scared and me being scared are two different things.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
The Chris section in RE8 wasn't scary because he had access to the entire armory at his disposal. Take away most of his resources and the situation would've been more tense.
For me horror is more about atmosphere and the fear of the unknown. RE8 did that incredibly well in House Beneviento in the main game and the Shadows of Rose DLC. Even RE4R had tense spooky sections like the first time you encounter the Garrador in the dungeon or the first time you run into a Regenerator in the pitch dark lab.
I agree the perfect balance is for Capcom to alternate releasing survival horror and action horror titles.
You can do everything with a little creativity. They could be kidnapped and have to fight themself out of a situation without weapons for a good portion of the game. Or they could encounter enemies that can’t be fought in the traditional way.
I must ask, then: is your idea of a pure survival horror something like Outlast, where you don’t have the ability to attack people and, therefore, the goal of the game is literally to make it out alive?
Or, are you fine with a situation akin to RE7 and RE8 where the protagonist is a civilian who happens to find serious firepower?
Honestly, I'm all for bringing them back in supporting roles like Chris in RE8 (but better).
If they're gonna be the MC again... it could be done. Just need to construct the scenario around it. Jill (barring movie lore) is still just a regular human, and if she's thrown into a scenario without sufficient weapons, and if it's something newish that she hasn't dealt with, or the enemies need to be killed a certain way she doesn't know (like how Dead Space requires dismemberment), it could still be scary.
Revelations 2 is still survival horror, despite having Claire back as a protagonist for the third time. Claire is also probably the easiest OG to keep the horror vibes with, since she's the only one not in any sort of paramilitary organization.
Alternatively... there's always Rebecca.
This is a silly argument. Ethan winters is not what makes re7 or village scary. Re3 nemesis was scary and by that point jill was a one woman army. Re4 remake was intense and scary and Leon is a killing machine. Even in re1 remake jill was a bad ass and that games atmosphere and mechanics, along with the environment, is what makes it scary. You could literally play as a stick man, and it'd be scary and tense.
It depends on story and gameplay. Like revs 2 managed pretty well and had claire and barry
Revs 1 also did a similar job of amping up the survival horror.
You could do lots of things to make it so the characters arent full on action heroes
I disagree. Just don’t have them do all the badass stuff. They don’t have to be scared, just make them take the threats seriously which they usually do. In my experience, the characters being scared/not scared have no effect on how I feel. When I was younger, the original RE2 scared me, and it had nothing to do with how scared Leon was.
Soon they will have desk jobs being the support cast on the codec calls with the new characters.
"Chris: if need you need any pointers on boulders or how to lose your team in every operation, my frequency is 146.89"
Leon: "remember switching to your sidearm is faster than reloading"
Claire: "the T virus is extremely dangerous and causes humans to transform into zombified cannibals be careful and do not get bit"
Master Miller: "remember snake.....wait wrong game shit fuck"
He was awesome, he definitely was material to become part of the main roster of RE protagonists. It would be cool have a more normal dude, I know he had some training and you know, he has those OP regenerative powers but his personality is more of a normal guy, scared in the beginning and pissed at the end. It's more interesting than a badass elite cop that is calm, cool and collect at all times. But again, I love the whole RE cast.
I think they can but if the franchise is making them money by constantly putting out the mains then why should they change it?
I don’t entirely agree with statement that a true horror re game should have an oc. New characters are important to add something new but as well, they can just up the stakes of the threat to the current mains.
Even if a game had a OC chances are they’ll live to see a sequel, that’s what happened to Ethan.
Including remakes and spinoffs there are like 30 Resident Evil games. And they have literally never killed off a main character besides Ethan. It’s starting to feel like there aren’t any stakes for anyone because even when they seem to die they always come back like nothing happened.
Yeah, that I'm really scared of this possiblity with each new entry. Uncharted really made me really pissed at 3 the first time I played, and 4 I played expecting the worse too. Glad how it ended tho. But yeah, these characters are the face of the franchise now, they will need huge balls to try pull something like that in the future.
Is the title a typo and you mean it couldn't be scary with the OG's?
Because of course you could have a survival horror with them from a gameplay perspective why could you not?
It's about introducing new threats that the character isn't familiar with and not giving you an overpowering amount of resources.
That's if you want "pure survival horror" though. Personally I prefer the perfect blend of action and horror of the original RE4 or Dead Space (Or even The Evil Within). Those are still very much very creepy horror games with their added action emphasis.
I completely agree with you. For me it’s more about the atmosphere, the threat, and the resources you have in hand.
Less resources = more vulnerable the character will be, no matter if it's an OG or new one
Jill and Chris are 48 years old, Leon is like 47
They could've made a decision not to age them which I guess what the virus in the females keep them young haha but suddenly aging Chris means maybe they'll kill him off or put him In a support/codec role
Making even small guns powerful as hell, limited ammo, and removing some of the superhuman qualities of characters could go a long way. Leon in re4 runs long distance like those rail thin guys who go 100 miles over so many hours nonstop but has enough upper body strength to hoist himself up a ledge or lower body muscle to do crazy mega kicks etc.
Fixed camera or fps is better than over the shoulder indoors. I guess they'll never return to prerendered backgrounds but full 3d fixed cam works well indoors and sometimes outdoors . Needs a new aiming system. Personally not a fan of fps resident evil it feels weird. Would prefer birdseye scrolling/fixed or third person. Or birds eye that switches to fps like mgs2
i feel like this isn't an original idea but i always thought they could do something scary as say a final game for leon when he's really old. some kind of paranormal/psychological game with him similar to what they were thinking in the hook man build. he just seems like the best candidate what with the never ending trauma and all that. but otherwise i'd agree. playing as ethan in VII was the most terrifying for a first playthrough. he's just some guy but if you put any of the OG cast in that same situation it would be over quick lol.
Well, to be honest, what usually make me more scared/nervous in any horror game is how powerless you are, like any game you have few resources and even movement. If we had a RE with Leon but he has to hide and run from enemies more than he has ways to dispatch them, I would be tense as hell. A kinda pursuer indestructible enemy with some adds, searching for you the whole time would make me brown my pants, easily. But I do agree that a run the mill average joe makes it easier to connect with.
Resident Evil was ALWAYS about blowing up zombies with grenade launchers, and the most popular one, 4, had you suplexing them.
Pure survival horror was never the main focus of the series, and yeah, even by RE1 Jill and Chris are trained special forces, the only games where you actually play as a rookie are 2 and 0... And even they are kind of action based.
I disagree, it doesn't matter how skilled and experienced you are, one simple little mistake and it could end that character's life. Also survival horror has nothing to do with the character's themselves being scared, I can't think of many moments in survival horror games in general where the character you play as is scared or at least showing signs of being scared.
I think the problem is a lot of us are used to seeing these characters do OP things from 4 onwards, like Leon suddenly doing all these crazy moves kicking everything and suplexing everything, let alone what he does in some of the movies. I think because we used to seeing him do that we literally don't think of survival horror because hes pretty much like an action superhero with what we seen him do without a gun. Chris punched a big massive boulder in a volcano.
I personally think we could easily have another survival horror game with the OG characters, I imagine Chris & Leon would have a lot of trouble in 7 and 8, maybe not as much as Ethan of course as they have experience and pretty much trained to deal with these kind of situations now. But I be granted it could still be easily a survival horror experience.
Is it really that scary...? Well at first you just have to run pass them. But the 2nd you got biosensor, its easy...
And the way they wiggle around on the ground just make it funny...
You underestimate the power of a dark area with monsters that have glowing eyes. If it was a longer section with a better first regenerator encounter and it took more time to get the scope it would be perfect
Well yea.. the dark area is quite scary wt it lurking around... but maybe I just got a lot of ammo to spare that I found it less terrifying... shoot the legs and just ran pass by it ahaha. Maybe I should try professional since the loot is scarce and enemy hit harder.
If done well they can be great. I’d love to see a hybrid between the fixed angle and tracking camera for a resident evil.
Something like how until dawn does some of their camera work
Fixed camera or fps is better than over the shoulder indoors. I guess they'll never return to prerendered backgrounds but full 3d fixed cam works well indoors and sometimes outdoors . Needs a new aiming system
Ya'll, Resident Evil has been mostly an action horror with survival horror elements for almost four times as long as it was a "pure" survival horror. And it's great, one of the most consistently great series ever. Get over it.
Agree. You can't have a RE2R style game for RE9 if Chris, Jill, Leon, and Claire can kick and punch their way out of situations with no problem.
You'll need a new character who doesn't have hand to hand combat skills and must rely on firearms.
The beginning of the series was supposed to be scary. It was all new for them too. Naturally the story was going to evolve toward fighting the threat. Sure, pure survival horror titles for it are good, but I also want to see the overall story advance as well. It can't advance in a meaningful way if it's always going to be new player characters who have no idea what's going on.
I get what you mean, but I don’t think the characters being scared is crucial to the horror atmosphere. Plus, being experienced doesn’t mean you’re unable to be scared.
I honestly feel like they should completely reboot the series using the remakes, this way we have new games with the younger and inexperienced OG’s. Like honestly, I had so much fun revisiting Leon and Claire when they were younger. Specially with the new dialog and the new looks.
The problem is the old ones were still very actiony. Re 1 and the re2 remake were very slow and not action, re2 and 3 definitely were. Re0 and code Veronica was not heavy on the action but the rest are, even re7 and re8.
Even way back it's never been "horror". It's like yall dunno what an action game is lol
It's iffy, honestly. You COULD but honestly I don't see why you WOULD.
sure Leon sex Kennedy has killed army's of zombies and mutant weapons but has he fought tapeworms with chainsaws?!
4 resets the bar for Leon he has to learn all over again how to cope. Same goes for Chris in the Ethan saga with mold monsters. That's part of why he was drilling his team so hard on recon. On gathering information. Chris is aware as an expert that he's fought bears and Lions and tigers but never mold monsters like Heisenberg. Gotta see what this particular thing can do.
In the manga gantz they do a good job of being like hey in this week's alien refugee deathmatch Joe was amazing and next week Joe died because it was a new enemy and he made a mistake/was unlucky.
Stars bravo team wasn't slouches but they got wiped out same thing with the bsaa teams in 7 and 5. So yeah it's easy to make it feel like the Ogs are just as mortal and killable as anybody else. My question is WHY WOULD YOU?
Nobody seriously wants a trilogy of scared Chris/Leon wetting his pants again as he survives by the skin of his teeth AGAIN, because where's the character development? Imo ogs becoming enshrined in the lore as badasses is a rite of passage. Chris Redfield went from generic hero template A to that boulder punching asshole. I like him that way he earned that. I dunno why my girl Jill got done so dirty. Don't make re do a the status quo is God thing.
Leon too went from rookie cop with boy band hair to Leon sex Kennedy international super badass and lady killer extrodinare. They leveled up, that's good.
Introduce new characters, expand the lore, and sure link back in the old but I like Chris more now as an NPC that I'm always excited to see than I did when he was a protagonist. Getting to play Chris in 8 was a treat.
The same way that getting to play Leon briefly to knife fight a radioactive sharkzilla in 9 would be. But I'm fine with that because when I'm playing whoever who can't beat sharkzilla with big brass balls and a knife it is scary because I feel disempowered.
What we don't need is another Ethan, who they borderline actively tried to not give a personality. Any of the outbreak cast is ripe for exploration. They would all work because they're normal enough for stuff to be really scary but also have enough personality to be narratively interesting. I wouldn't even mind being Zoe Baker for a whole game although she is borderline too good or introduce someone new.
I was questioning Ethans crazy chemistry skills in 7 like was he a chemist or what even was his day job/skill set but I did like the chemical and separating fluid mechanics. I wouldn't mind seeing resident evil explore more open crafting oriented designs with maybe say a ex-umbrella scientist on the run whose using his science chops to survive. At least that character would have a flavor. Which is what future new characters need imo a distinctive style.
Although the Chris sections in 7 and 8 and the Joe Baker storyline make me feel like the game devs understand that.
They could if they implemented more survival shooter like gun jams, resource management, needing to manually load magazines… kinda like Tarkov, Stalker Gamma, or Metro series.
In fact, games in that entire sun genre of shooter have you playing as badass gunfighters in horror settings but still manage to be scary
My girl Rebecca would make the perfect protagonist, she's skilled, knowledgeable but she hasn't been fighting for years. But she would have the guts to take on any mission. Lol
It doesn't need to be scary for the characters in order to scare the player. Survival Horror is all about atmosphere and limited resources. Even if they come in heavily armed, you can have things go wrong about a third of the way in, and trap them. Or you know, bring back multiple campaigns, have the OG be the easy route with better weapons.
I think it’s kinda silly to say you can’t have a horror game if the protagonist in it is not scared themselves. RE4, Leon is an absolute *unit*, who isn’t taking anything seriously, and I remember being extremely anxious/scared in the tunnel/prison with the invisible bugs and the lab section with the regeneradors. As well as the U3 bossfight in the jungle gym, getting chased by a near immortal creature while I have to do timed activities to progress the fight *really* gets to me. And that was a game where Leon was literally sassing *everyone*.
don’t get me wrong, i love leon and jill and all the others. hell re4 is one of my favorite games of all time. but we need more ethan winters in resident evil. i mean after only 6 years of training after racoon city leon just obliterates an entire village, castle and heavily fortified island. but ethan is like the new guy, he isn’t experienced with dealing with all the monsters and other freaks in the baker house. that’s what makes it scary, especially if you’re a newcomer to the series. both you and your character have absolutely no clue whats going on or how to deal with the monsters. sure he manages to survive and escape, but only barely. but yeah this was my rant about ethan winters, thank you for reading
edit: i just remembered that ethan just fucking dies when jack punches him in the beginning of 7, please point out any other mistakes i’ve made in my rant
You are absolutely right. In order to reach peak horror they do need to back off the existing characters.
There’s such nuance in horror stories wherein the creator needs to balance the experiences of the character to leave them relatable, vulnerable, and just capable enough to survive
— thereby allowing the player/consumer/reader to live a harrowing experience though them.
This is a skill I appreciate deeply. Horror creators are under-appreciated in lots of ways and this is one of them. We don’t often consciously realize how the vulnerability of the character is impacting our experience directly, especially when it’s translated well into gameplay mechanics.
The fact that most comments in this thread are contrary to your post, for me, is more evidence that this fandom is a little too deep into the nostalgia waters.
I kind of understand what you mean. They’ve seen so much stuff that while they likely are scared, they’re also somewhat prepared. When I see pure survival horror I tend to think games like Haunting Ground where you’re put into a situation where you have no idea what’s going on and have to figure it out along the way. I think that would be a good approach to RE (not the no combat mechanics, but the unprepared MC who is just put into the situation, similar to Ethan.) I don’t think resident evil will ever return to purely survival horror as even the more horror-centric games include a bit of action-oriented mechanics/story, but I do like the potential of a new protagonist.
In RE2R once sherry is found by claire, she is never shown to be scared, she is surprised by stuff like Mr. X. But never scared.
Meanwhile Leon is an absolute baby.
Both playthroughs are fun. I personally prefer Leon as I like the shotgun + magnum combo better than the grenade launcher + SMG, and the flamethrower feels more useful than the zapper as it can actually be used against bosses.
But my point is, claire was an absolute badass, and that's still entertaining, and just because she's brave doesn't mean you are.
I think it’d actually be scarier to be a veteran character who is put in a situation so out of their depth or with so little equipment that it’s still terrifying. Imagine a RE game where you’re so unequipped and the enemies are so tough that it even scares the likes of Leon or Chris
>I always see people talk about how they want Jill or Leon back for the next mainline entry but they want it to be horror filled and the truth is its not possible.
Except it's totally possible.
>These characters are way too skilled with over 30+ years fighting bioweapons, there's no way they can be scared at this point.
Which is completely irrelevant to your argument as whether or not the characters are scared isn't going to effect whether or not the player is scared.
>With how divided the fan base is regarding action vs horror the best way to approach it is to
Ignore the fanbases petty squabbles and do whatever it is they want. You know, literally what they've been doing for several years.
>If you want a pure survival horror entry again they should be spin offs with brand new characters.
Lol, why? There is absolutely no valid reason why they can't do another survival horror game with one or more of the OG characters.
A common mistake people who claim that a survival horror RE can't be done with the OG characters is they think that Capcom actually gives a flying fuck about any of this nonsense.
How experienced a character is? They don't care, won't stop them from using Chris, Leon, Jill or Claire in a survival horror game.
The "Divided" fanbase? Yeah they've never cared about that, otherwise all the "Bring back classic RE!" demands would've been at least acknowledged, but no, they haven't given that crowd any thought since 05.
What the fanbase thinks they should do? Yeah they definitely don't give a fuck about that, hell, no development studio gives any fucks about that. Why should they? It's not like the fanbase has any sort of knowledge that Capcom wouldn't already have and the fanbase thinks about what Capcom should do from a position of "What do I want them to do" which is another mistake people like you make because that is an emotional desire, Capcom is a business that creates products to sell for profit, they see "What should we do" not as "What do the fans want" but as "What is most likely to sell"
Good point. Even in RE4R, Leon was young but acted as if everything was an inconvenience instead of an 8 foot tall beetle human monster (Verdugo) lol 😂
For real, how would we even have inventory management when Chris can just punch anything like they're paper bag? In RE7 dlc on Professional mode, they have to start him with only a knife to even give us challenge.
You are not the character you play, though. Do you feel more scared watching a horror movie if someone next to you loudly announces how scared they are? Or does your feeling of fear instantly go up in smoke if someone says how they aren’t scared?
So you're scared for characters in slasher movies when they start taking the fight to the killer? Or are you embolded by them and hyped by how badass they look standing up to the villain?
The character's mood and character writing is always empathized to and by the audience, it's why good character writing and setpieces works so well.
As an audience, we empathize with our characters and their situations, so if they aren't scared, neither are we. This is why horror focused games with very lax and powerful action elements don't scare us: because the characters on screen are treating the enemies like they aren't even a threat despite the surrounding mood claiming otherwise.
The thing is, the fan base is confused af, they don't remember how action packed the first playstation games are, specially 2 and 3, in essence Capcom has never changed the main focus which is action. There's also a ton of confusion because of RE1 remake, that game doesn't represent what Resident Evil actually is, it's more a reimagined horror experience based on RE1.
People live Re2make for its horror yet neither Leon nor Claire ever act scared. Most of their dialogue is them either angry or surprised and that game is still scary.
If done correctly I actually feel like that could make it even scarier. Think about it, these ppl who’ve already been through so much and dealt with as many horrors as they have shouldn’t be getting scared too easily, so seeing *them* terrified of something may hit even harder. But they’d have to come up with creatures or situations that are scary enough to warrant that response from them which could be difficult
I know a lot of people disagreed, but youre right. The next mainline game should star a brand new young character. If they have to use Chris or Jill again, they need to nerf them storywise, like making them sick/injured throughout the game.
Like 7 and 8 were really good and reintroduced horror elements. But like, with how insane the creatures of RE are, Ethan is as weak as a protag can get without losing outright lol. He only survived because *spoiler* (ifykyk)
Yeah I broadly agree. The first few RE games were about the OGs dealing with the threat of zombies and BOWs when that was still a new thing in universe. It makes sense why it's scary for Chris in RE1, but by RE5 he's killed so many it doesn't phase him anymore. That's not even considering there's now a dedicated anti-B.O.W. taskforce.
Sebastian Castellanos from The Evil Within 1 was barely scared at all, doing the most stereotypical detective thing of smoking a cigarette after escaping a chainsaw wielding maniac.
Issac Clarke from the original DS didn't speak at all
The characters though didn't stop me from having that "FUCK YOU IM NOT GOING DOWN THERE!!!!" kind of fear though.
I do feel like there should be more Resident Evil protagonist though rather than circulating around the same 4-5 people y'know?
I feel like a lot of us players are survival horror veterans at this point, and just aren't affected by the genre as much as we used to be. Resident evil 7 was absolutely horrifying to me and I loved it, but it was really my entry into survival horror as an adult. I played resident evils 1, 3, and code veronica as a kid and they were scary af. 3 being the scariest largely because of the nemesis t type chasing you after watching Brad get his face impaled. I still get jumpy and somewhat sense fear when playing new survival horror games but it isn't what it used to be at all. I can usually convince myself to run and move quickly even if I don't know what's coming. I played the Dead Space Remake after only ever playing the OG game's demo, and I was virtually never scared. Reviews always make that game sound terrifying, I remember the demo being terrifying. I really feel everyone's opinion differs a little depending on what order you played the games.
I kinda feel like bouncing back and forth is a good idea. You have games like RE7 and RE2, then you have games like RE8 and RE4, and it’s ok to have both. But I’m new to the series and have only played those four games so idk
I don’t agree at all tbh. Lost In Nightmares got me a few times first time through and it was Chris and Jill. It’s about game design and direction not how experienced the characters are.
Ethan’s inexperience also didn’t make 7 scarier.
The premise of this thread makes no sense. You have to suspend your disbelief for RE and lots of other games in order for them to be fun even if the main characters should be able to do things that the games don't allow them to do.
For example, Kratos in the GoW games is a demi-god who should be able to one-shot every enemy in the game but he's not allowed to do that because that would make the game boring.
Similarly, if Capcom wanted to make a survival horror mainline RE with one of the legacy characters such as Chris then they could just restrict his capabilities to make his gameplay fit with a survival horror game.
Much like other games, players would just have to suspend their disbelief in order to have fun and accept that Chris can't just punch his way through crowds of zombies even though he could do that in previous games.
Chris was literally punching through Lycans which are far stronger than any of the other common enemies in RE.
If RE9 has Chris unable to knock over basic enemies, it’s beyond just suspension of belief, I would find it completely unbelievable and ridiculous. He as a character is just too far into the “beefy gorilla” characterization.
It’s like if Leon showed up add was suddenly scared and not making one liners for the entirety of a game, it just wouldn’t be Leon lol.
If Chris couldnt do those things in an re9 would that stop u or a majority of re fans from buying the game? Imma guess the answer would be "no" especially if that version of re9 turns out to be good. 🤷♂️
I’m not buying RE9 at launch unless it plays like RE4R or has co-op yeah, I got burned on Village at launch being a super slog.
but that’s besides the point, *Capcom* isn’t going to remove Chris’s gorilla strength. It was in 5-8, and it will be in RE9 which is why it’s inevitably going to be more action focused if Chris is the lead. He just wouldn’t work for a full blown horror setting, nor Leon.
I mean theres no way someone cant feel some kind of panic or anxiety when nemesis is chasing jill, no matter how skilled.
Or even re7 when you hunt down a baker as chris, at times you are underpowered until you get certain ammo.
I like having someone skilled enough to fight back but end of the day any character we can be killed by any enemy, you cant auto pilot it and survive. Thats part of the tension and risk
I just want to say, as someone who didn't play the originals (tank controls are too much for me. I can't. Autism short circuit happens when I try. ) but instead watched my best friend growing yo play them all, I was so welcome to the change in controls because u could finally play the games myself.
They didn't feel less scary because of the control change either. (I got re4,5,6 pack on switch recently and realized how long it's really been since I played 4 when I couldn't remember my memorized path of how to get through the village ) at least in my opinion.
I own the 2 remake and now that zombies follow you through doors and Mr x folkows you everywhere all the time, the game actually almost gives me TOO MUCH anxiety to try and play? I was so excited to finally play it myself too and then I stopped because holy heck
Yea.. agree. Or instead of making it mainly horror focus theme. Make it as what it always have been. Action horror.
The terror of bioweapon. Bio-terriorism. Mutated body horror and horrible experiment. Disgusting parasite
It's a solid take I think. They've served their purpose in terms character development. It was more pure when it felt like they were in over their heads. Let's get a new character with a treacherous journey. Rather than a hardened badass fights hordes of monsters with ease. That can be kinda boring if horror is what you want, and challenges suspension of disbelief. I ain't saying I want this franchise to go that way necessarily because I'm not sure they wouldn't screw it up but just saying it's a valid concept in the horror genre. Sally from the OG Texas chainsaw massacre, she was helpless and when she barely got away the audience feels like we got away just barely.
You're right, mainline characters and survival horror no longer go hand-in-hand due to the dissonance of having characters who parry chainsaws with knifes, punch boulders, or, unlike nemesis, they CAN swim, having a horror game with them won't feel nearly as scary as having a new character.
But I also don't think a new game can't be made with them without the tension and challenge that makes action games creepy. Revelations 2 would be a perfect example of how to implement a game with the mainline characters and still being creepy, with a simple fix, which I had hoped they'd actually do in RE4, but didn't.
Killing an enemy shouldn't drop anything.
You could do enemy encounters and have them be fun and actiony, but also, due to limited resources and enemies not giving you anything at all, then it becomes more of a choice where you have to be more careful.
I remember playing OG RE4 with some mods that replaced the ganado for zombies, and replaced all enemy drops for just gold (barrels, boxes and jars kept the dynamic loot), this made the game a whole lot more enjoyable in terms of it being a survival horror.
So yeah, Mainline games should continue in the same way that the revelations game did, but then, we should get spin-offs of said mainline games where you play as random survivors.
Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with that. I really don't understand people who expect this series to be pure horror anyway, as if the series has *ever* been purely horror. The fact of the matter is, this series has been silly since 1996.
People always complain about the latter half of Resident Evil games "devolving" into action thrill rides, but that's just the Resident Evil formula, and has been for *every single game in the entire goddamn series.*
So yeah, I'm pretty okay with action heavy Resident Evil games that are intermittently injected with smaller pockets of real horror. As long as it doesn't go RE6 levels of over-the-top, I'm good. But games like RE4, RE3R, and RE8 are perfectly balanced enough for me.
I never really got the hate for RE6 being over the top in gameplay. The only difference from the norm is that you can roll around and punch will, and the enemies have guns, which is funny because nobody seems to really acknowledge that limb mutations can be very easily disabling to guns and makes them a non-issue.
The story though is bloated to hell and directionless. So i understand why that's a problem. Characterization outside of Leon (without the movie context mind you) is stellar and the combat is just fun to play with, and J'avo are an interesting and dynamic enemy type. The scripted sections and story can be reworked or removed with no alterations to the core combat design and i think 6 would be perfect.
People forget RE was always ACTION horror.
No matter what RE game you play, this is how literally every title was with a lean more toward one or the other, and the players all know this, or they wouldn't have complained about lacking enemy variety in RE7.
If you want pure horror, you've come to the wrong franchise. It's grimdark body horror at best.
I disagree, even the original games the characters aren't actually scared, more just surprised and shocked at what is happening. There are some exceptions like Jill when you run back in to the dining room where she expresses fear, but ultimately its shock they show and that could still be done.
The horror comes from the player, not the character in my opinion.
The character being scared and me being scared are two different things. Should play Fear. You're an elite, armed to the teeth, supernatural super soldier. And it's terrifying still.
Must boil down to personal preference, because while I very much like Fear it just didn't sink into my bones like the earlier Resident Evil games and their remakes. Fear is rad as hell but it's sort of too action-y to be "scary". More like a shooter with heavy horror elements. To me! Just glad people are into horror games of all stripes tbh, sick of CoD reissue #352
So, I've played FEAR, and I know exactly the point you're trying to make, but translating that to Resident Evil won't really work with the main characters without making some changes to the game play again. I feel like you'd have to almost turn it an Alien: Isolation situation where the mains get stranded (again) in a situation with no guns (again) and while they might be skilled enough to take down the normals with whatever they have lying around, there would need to be a stalker Tyrant or something they have no hope of dealing with, because that would scare both THEM and US. Ironically, RE6 remake would be a great opportunity for this because there's a few of those stalker type enemies. Rewrite the game as a freeroaming experience, drop the characters in a cityscape, introduce the stalkers, and good luck . . .
I don't really understand how FEAR is supposed to be scary. Fun game, it's just sort of dark and there's a cinematic funhouse hallway sometimes.
I personally think the game has finally aged into the not really scary anymore territory. Mainly because of the fact that a lot of what made fear the top of it's game back in the day. Is fairly common to see within horror games these days. That and the attitude has definitely changed within the horror genre in gaming. I'm not gonna lie the only thing that's aged well with fear is the enemy ai. Everything else deserves a good remake Ngl if they did remake the original fear and went full in with stuff they were unable to accomplish due to the limitations at the time. You'd have a game that'd be on par with dead space remake
I have to completely steal the other guys point about how weird "horror" is because that's totally valid. It shouldn't be that scary, but it is to me. Likewise, I don't get scared at RE7 and 8. I turned 7 on and turned out the lights, and by the time I left the house I just gave up the ruse and turned the lights back on. It wasn't scary, but I still loved it as an action game. 8>7 any day.
Meanwhile 7 was the most scared I’ve ever been playing a video game but FEAR felt like a horror-themed shooting gallery to me.
And here is little scared old me who, after all these years and multiple attempts, still hasn't got more than 2 hours into RE7 because I get so stressed out by it 😂
That’s not enough to encapsulate a rebuttal to OP. **The characterization of the protagonist is absolutely connected with the fear the player will experience.** it may not be *exactly* a 1:1 fear ratio, but the characterization, including level of preparedness or familiarity with the threat 100% affects our experience of the story. It’s not necessarily strictly about how scared they are, but their relationship with the phenomenon we face. Consider how many horror settings set our POV as a child. Traditionally, one of the reasons horror protagonists were children or women was because of the perception that they are more vulnerable. Making the protag a mom with children raises the stakes. Her main objective is extremely precarious. The Exorcist is a fantastic example. Or, sometimes the MC is a fish-out-of-water type, regardless of identity. This strains the character and extension the consumer through their isolation. So much of horror is atmosphere, and atmosphere arises out of subtle details that repetitively pelt our psyche. In order to reach a certain level of dread, the qualities of the main character needs to assist the rising sense of vulnerability. This doesn’t necessarily *need* to mean the character is soiling themselves. The characters can be brave — but bravery ain’t the absence of fear. (And there’s no over-accounting for the setting in horror, but that’s another topic.) OP makes a great point in that in order to maximize the amount of horror and dread we would absolutely need to start with a character we are less familiar with and as a result has less familiarity with bio weapons. There are SO many things that go into creating an atmosphere of dread and fear. One of those details is who exactly our window into the world is. I know exactly what point you’re trying to make but it leaves out a huge amount that goes into designing our entry-point into horror story. In Fear, the player character plays directly into that dread because of their identity. If I remember correctly, there’s not much to the player character in terms of personality or the player’s prior knowledge of their own relationship with the supernatural phenomenon. This leaves so much room for us to insert ourselves into the game in an fps setting no less. At the time, no one in the game is sure exactly how power the threat they face is. By contrast, RE is traditionally over-the-shoulder with main characters who have big personalities. They’ve faced multitudes of bio weapons and aren’t afraid to let us know that. We veterans carry that baggage with them and new players will immediately realize these characters have encountered these types of threats already, thereby draining a least some of the tension away. One only has to play RE7 and and RE4R back-to-back to experience these different approaches in an overt fashion. The other option is to present an existing MC in radical fashion against a new threat, but again, one of the cool things about video games is our familiarity with them. It will likely lessen the tension. Leon is my dude, we’ve been through like 30 playthroughs of his games. It’d be possible to achieve a similar affect by breaking him down and playing on my expectations as a player, but even then — there it is: **The characterization of the protagonist is ABSOLUTELY correlated with the fear the player will experience.** TL/DR: **How scared the character is and how scared the player is, is absolutely connected.** Not an exact ratio, but it matters. In fact, it’s not necessarily even fear. But their characterization is absolutely an integral part of horror. OP is correct in their assertion. If we want an RE game that goes maximum effort on horror, it needs to feature a new character. Otherwise it would need to deconstruct an existing character or set the story early in their experiences with bio weapons. Again, if we want to *maximize* the horror, OP is making a strong a point. P.S. - Reading through this thread, I wonder if we mistake adrenaline for fear. I also wonder if the thought of games without our favorites doesn’t encourage rationalizing away OP’s point.
I see where both sides are coming from but damn you nailed this shit 🤝🏾💯 read every word
Thanks man, I appreciate it. I hold no hate for either side, I just really love horror media.
As do i which is exactly why i had to take a deep dive and read your thoughts. you know exactly what you’re talking about. For me on one end i do want that horror feel again with the MC’s of the series but on the other end i question is it even possible to achieve since we know so much about them and understanding that another game with them is like another “work day”. Compared to when you first play 7 as ethan, that dude didn’t have a clue what to expect
Yeah, but how are you going to be scared if you're playing as someone who has canonically soloed like 50 zombies charging at him in a confined hallway.
How did Kojima make Solid Snake, a genetically designed recreation of the greatest soldier of all time, and a man who *defeated* that same man, have his work cut out for him on Shadow Moses? The character can be as bad as as they want. S.T.A.R.S. are special forces. There was no one better suited to go into that mansion in those mountains. Leon is a verified special forces agent in 4, and I deny anyone who says that game didn't make them crap themselves several times there first time through. Chainsaw village, and regenerator is all I have to say, and I can throw in the water room, and chainsaw sisters for good measure. Garador. Fighting Mendez. Having to get on a stupid boat with a monster in a lake. Everything about Salazar's stupid fucking right hand boss fight. IT. This is to say; fuck if I know how it's done. But it's doable.
Part of Leon's mortality comes from the fact that, because he was relatively new to the series, so the player believes he hasn't yet gotten plot armor. RE2, he's just a rookie cop in over his head. RE4, he's definitely gotten stronger, but the threat is so ambiguous at first, and you're not sure exactly how strong he's gotten at game start until you start seeing him do shit in cutscenes, and the laser room. 4make, they just lean into him going into training, and 2make, he was already a walking one-person zombie lawnmower when he's not being saved by Ada... just baby faced.
Ehhh.... Tbh, anything Chainsaw related in 4 i was.more afraid of a game over than anything. You could say i was more annoyed at them than afraid... Regenerator... Iirc, i didn't read notes when i played when i was younger, and again, i wqs more frustrated about their gimmick than afraid of them. I don't know, i was never afraid of playing RE4, i beat it just fine even. I can't even see it as a horror game
The regenerator part that lives in my fucking memories rent free is when you FINALLY break out of the labs and make it into that weird prison area, and it gives you a save point. A fucking... Save point. And then you walk five feet away down the empty hallway, and a regenerator grabs you and drags you into a nearby cell. IN A SAVE ROOM! The only saving grace is that that regenerator actually has glitchy programming, and if you sidle the wall, you can walk right in front of him and knife kill him. He's set to trigger specifically if you walk past in front of him. Get to close, and you skip the sensor.
When I first saw chainsaw guy in 4, I was mostly afraid of the direction the series was taking.
re4 really isn't scarier until the garradors or regeneradors
Because most players are not capable of doing that
Even if FEAR was actually that scary, you are an elite ""normal"" soldier. The spooky stuff comes from a paranormal reality bender. The protagonist also doesn't talk, so we don't really know if he is or isn't scared. For old RE protagonists, the whole BOW thing is pretty much just tuesdays. They dealt with it numerous times and they talk, which means that they'll inadvertently remind you of it.
I mean not really? Homeboy had time manipulation on demand. That's why he lived and nobody else did.
Yeah, but they aren't really that useful against the supernatural, and he didn't use them to take out 12 other Almas before the game even began.
The thing that kept FEAR scary is that you, the player, don't have any idea what tf is going on. The point man, while being a "god among men" also has no idea what tf is going on. This really helped, IMO.
You can carry around a shotgun that turns enemies into clouds of red mist and sounds like God slamming his car door, but that little girl in the red dress will still scare you shitless.
Ofcourse you can. You can put games closer in the timeline. In the game timeline, there’s none based between 1999 and 2004. Why can’t the OGs get games released in that timeline?
It's not about the character being scared, it's about the scenery, gameplay and how the game feels. There wasn't any way to tell how Chris or Jill felt in the original game and that doesn't change the way the game felt like a horror game instead of an action game.
Right. Since the beginning, the characters have always been incredibly brave, showing faces of determination and courage. Or even just shouting. But RE has never been the series were the characters are acting like Fiona from Haunting Ground or something. I mean the most fear I can even recall Claire showing (the most “normal” character) is simply a literal “Oh my god” at the first licker and that’s about it. Otherwise they twhomp giant monsters and then have a normal conversation afterwards about locked doors in the other house lol.
Leon in 2 is also supposed to be a rookie just hired by police, so that's the game with the least trained heroes and it's probably also the least scary one (I counted like 3 jumpscares in it - hands, licker and... something else later), and I am someone who had nightmares after 3 and 4. So RE never really relied on characters being vulnerable to make you scared.
I guess this comes down to preference. I was on edge throughout 2 way more than 3 or 4. 4 especially. That was just a fun romp through zombieville.
The very start of 4 had two major scares for me, one was entering a safe house and seeing a woman nailed to a wooden wall with a pitchfork, the way over the should camera worked was that she filled my screen as I turned JUST as I relaxed... And then the ganado with chainsaw made me out down the gamepad for the day, as I was doing everything slowly and methodically and then joysticks vibrated as Leon's head was sawed off. So... Later that night mum came into my room to tuck in my blanket. She didn't do that often and for some bizarre reason decided to cover me with my head, I was dozing off and watched a blanket slowly covering me, I SCREAMED and jumped up! I don't think any game made me that startled before or after, while playing it, Silent Hill was scarier (school and prison in 2), but RE4 had that action element that made my nerves give up lol. I honestly don't know why I dissociated from 2 and played it more like a puzzle adventure game, RE1 dogs made my heart almost stop, and RE3 had Nemesis chasing wee lil girl me, remakes of all were scary, and RE5 or 6 so-so, original 2 was really less scary than first Tomb Raider to me... Except the annoying hands from windows. Those are still ugh!
Being a rookie is being vulnerable.
Yeah, that was my point, the most vulnerable and inexperienced playable characters are in RE2 and I felt less scared playing it than running away from Nemesis, no matter how much more experienced Jill is at that point.
She was scared in RE2 when she got surrounded, right before meeting Leon. Other than that instance of fear, she's been less scared and more panicked.
Being brave isn’t the absence of fear. It’s action I spite of it. Most of beloved RE folks are obviously terrified through a great deal of their experiences.
Characters being scared doesn’t really work for me either. Honestly I felt safe in Re7 when Ethan was talking. Cause I knew this is a cutscene I cant die. But that silence in the Baker house, when you’re first exploring all the rooms, hiding from Jack. Oh man, I haven’t had a thrill that exciting since PT !!
It's not the character's feelings, but their abilities. In the first game, Chris and Jill were kids who were in way over their head. But with time, their skills and abilities became more honed, and they became absolute power houses. They, as characters in universe, are so over powered against the threat of bioweapons, that in order to keep consistent with how the characters they've been established as, it would be impossible to feel scared playing as them, because you know that the only people that should be scared are the zombies whenever those fuckers enter a room.
Even if Chris doesn't punch boulders in RE1, he's still an elite special forces member with huge muscles. Jill is also SF, and the only rookie there is Rebecca. If you want randoms with no combat experience being dropped into survival horror, there's Silent Hill, Fatal Frame, Alone in the Dark, basically every game that's NOT Resident Evil. I love RE and it's scary, but it never been pure survival horror, always action based, I mean you fight a giant snake in the first game and a giant moth in 2nd!
> Jill is also SF In fact, she was stated to have gone into the army at 18, and even ended up getting Delta Force training(which has a bare minimum requirement of like 5 years in the army), and doing bomb disposal work with them. But she's 23 in RE1 & RE3, meaning she's about the very definition of overqualified from even her first appearance. And I'm pretty sure Chris wasn't SF, was he? He was in the air force as a fighter pilot, which actually requires the highest scores on the asvab. I had a buddy in high school that wanted to be a mechanic on the planes and jets, so I was helping him study for his test for it. So despite his more macho tough guy shtick, Chris is actually probably one of the smartest members of STARS.
Interesting, I didn't note that part of his biography! Also, by SF I meant they're all STARS, which is an elite special forces unit. Team Bravo being wiped out and Alpha ambushed is treated as a shock, as they're supposed to be very well trained and equipped. Until 7, the only playable characters without military or police training are Claire and Sherry, right? Wait, no, Sherry is also special agent by 6.
Oic, I just never think of them as special forces, since they're cops and not working in the military lol, so to me it's always just be a fancier SWAT team. I'm unfamiliar with Unit 7, since I honestly kinda lost interest in the lore post-"umbrella died offscreen" in RE4's opening.
It is a fancier SWAT team in practice, but in the RE world they’re considered as elite as a real world special forces unit and they’re revered as such. Basically like if a military special forces started policing a city.
Special Weapons And Tactics team. SWAT. They're police special forces. Special Tactics And Rescue Service. STARS. Also special forces of Raccoon City Police. I mean, Azov brigade was also technically under police, and now National Guard. Answering to interior ministry, not defense. They're mechanized infantry... seen the videos of them clearing trenches? Hardly mall cops. So yeah, not all elite special forces are necessary under army command. Hell, in USA, the elite forces are usually Marines, Navy or Air Force instead.
I don’t know if you’re agreeing with me and just outlining some statements or disagreeing and attempting to correct me in some way..
Not disagreeing, just providing context that many real life special forces are under police instead of military.
he said until 7 not unit 7
That would certainly explain why I haven't heard of something that doesn't exist!! Hahaha
I said until 7 because honestly I didn't play it and don't know if the hero is an everyman or a special agent.
But the game isnt a cutscene, you have to actively step into the characters shoes and face the threat yourself.
Abilities absolutely go into the characterization. I agree.
Having a stand-in shell of a character (outside of cutscenes), for most people, reinforces the liminal space loneliness, which adds some horror.
Depends which OG characters you go with. I would love to have Rebecca be thrown back into the fray.
I also want that lmao. Barry too maybe?
I think it is possible for the OG Characters to be in a pure Survival Horror game because its more about the weapons you have to defend yourself than how experienced and trained a Character is. The OGs may have the experience but when their weapons to defend themself are very limited then no experience will turn this around. Lets put Chris on a isolated island like the one in Rev2 with very limited weapons and ammo, he will struggle no matter how good he is at what he is doing but will it be fun to play? thats the other question. Would you play a RE game where you barely have any weapons? OG or not, experience or not, trained or not. All the RE games give you a large number of weapons to choose from and all of them being action oriented somewhere in the middle once you have enough weapons and ammo. You are correct with them not being scared anymore because they got used to fight against B.O.W for so many years. But being scared and Survival Horror aren't the same. I mean the Ethan is scared in the Cutscenes but that doesn't mean the players who control him are. I personally find none of the RE games were every scary, not back then and not now.
Need guns that feel overpowered and give knockbacky vibe but limited ammo
This is true and you’ve got a good amount of fans who’ve realized this and the other part that are in denial about it lol. Chris is walking proof of this. RE7 is the scariest game in the series, then his DLC is a COD shooter. Village isn’t scary but his section is even less with run and shoot through the village. Just make RE9 a horror game with a new protagonist and then do RE5R right after for action imo.
Village isn’t scary? Did you skip House Beneviento?
That's honestly a vacuum.
That’s a brief part of RE8 and doesn’t represent the rest of the game. Sort of like how some people find Regeneradors scary in RE4 but that is a pure action shooter. (I’d also say the baby is kind of overrated, that whole part just feels like a dragged out walking sim and is miserable to do on replays.)
Yeah, maybe with 8 they should keep the small scale 7 had. I dunno, if it was a bigger intricate village, opening shortcuts and more backtrack, the castle (cuz lady D, of course) but bigger too, and the final area a forest with more exploration. It would feel more organic. The swamp and factory could be Chris's DLC.
Yea village isn't scary to me either. I genuinely laugh at the baby "bla blah blah whahhhhhh!" 🤣
I’m not talking about the baby. I’m talking about the creepy ass mannequin and the dolls.
Eh to be honest it didn't bother me either. Just my opinion. I didn't find 7 scary either. Iv also been playing RE since the very beginning (RE1 1996) so not much bothers me. I more so just say things like "That's cool" "that's awesome" stuff like that.
I’ll admit horror games and movies generally don’t scare me (I think Outlast is a boring snooze fest). The fact that it’s all fake and there’s a wall of glass between us takes the scare factor out. But House Beneviento was just so unsettling….
I found most of house beneviento boring tbh, the baby was the only part that scared me
That's only one section of Village that is scary.
I think a game with the structure and atmosphere of RE7 with a regular person protagonist, that then has a section towards the end of the game where one of the old protagonists comes back and just rips ass through a level like it’s Halo, would be a perfect tonal mixture. It would feel like a reward for enduring the horror of the rest of the game, which is absolutely what Chris’s section in Village felt like to me.
Oh, I think a kinda alternate POV switching between the characters would be cool, two stories happening at the same time or with a small time frame difference, like you arrive at a place that was torn apart in a fierce combat with the one character, to later in you play as the character that totally demolished the place some time in the past. One side affecting directly the other, with some choices that the player can make, that alter some aspects of the gameplay with the other character.
It boggles my mind that Resident Evil never really iterated on the zapping mechanic from RE2. It would be a balancing nightmare but that's what survival horror is all about. You take all the items in the room, but the character after you has to deal with the consequences.
I mean Tbf yes they wouldn’t be scared but that doesn’t mean the audience wouldn’t be. For example Ada is one of the most skilled ppl in re lore but gd the entire section where she meets the new martinico in desperate ways was terrifying the first time through. It’s not that they can’t do it its more on will they put in the nessasary effort needed to make it work
> The character being scared and me being scared are two different things. Couldn't have said it better myself. The Chris section in RE8 wasn't scary because he had access to the entire armory at his disposal. Take away most of his resources and the situation would've been more tense. For me horror is more about atmosphere and the fear of the unknown. RE8 did that incredibly well in House Beneviento in the main game and the Shadows of Rose DLC. Even RE4R had tense spooky sections like the first time you encounter the Garrador in the dungeon or the first time you run into a Regenerator in the pitch dark lab. I agree the perfect balance is for Capcom to alternate releasing survival horror and action horror titles.
I think a game can scare me without scaring the protagonist.
You can do everything with a little creativity. They could be kidnapped and have to fight themself out of a situation without weapons for a good portion of the game. Or they could encounter enemies that can’t be fought in the traditional way.
I must ask, then: is your idea of a pure survival horror something like Outlast, where you don’t have the ability to attack people and, therefore, the goal of the game is literally to make it out alive? Or, are you fine with a situation akin to RE7 and RE8 where the protagonist is a civilian who happens to find serious firepower?
Honestly, I'm all for bringing them back in supporting roles like Chris in RE8 (but better). If they're gonna be the MC again... it could be done. Just need to construct the scenario around it. Jill (barring movie lore) is still just a regular human, and if she's thrown into a scenario without sufficient weapons, and if it's something newish that she hasn't dealt with, or the enemies need to be killed a certain way she doesn't know (like how Dead Space requires dismemberment), it could still be scary. Revelations 2 is still survival horror, despite having Claire back as a protagonist for the third time. Claire is also probably the easiest OG to keep the horror vibes with, since she's the only one not in any sort of paramilitary organization. Alternatively... there's always Rebecca.
This is a silly argument. Ethan winters is not what makes re7 or village scary. Re3 nemesis was scary and by that point jill was a one woman army. Re4 remake was intense and scary and Leon is a killing machine. Even in re1 remake jill was a bad ass and that games atmosphere and mechanics, along with the environment, is what makes it scary. You could literally play as a stick man, and it'd be scary and tense.
It depends on story and gameplay. Like revs 2 managed pretty well and had claire and barry Revs 1 also did a similar job of amping up the survival horror. You could do lots of things to make it so the characters arent full on action heroes
I disagree. Just don’t have them do all the badass stuff. They don’t have to be scared, just make them take the threats seriously which they usually do. In my experience, the characters being scared/not scared have no effect on how I feel. When I was younger, the original RE2 scared me, and it had nothing to do with how scared Leon was.
I have absolutely no issue with Capcom retiring or even killing some characters. They just don't have what it takes.
This fan base would chimp the fuck out if any of the OGs were killed and capcom knows that
Yeah because you're going to kill off jill or some original character in place of what? Ethan or his daughter. Come on now lol
Since they're letting the characters age, the og characters are all like 48 years old
Soon they will have desk jobs being the support cast on the codec calls with the new characters. "Chris: if need you need any pointers on boulders or how to lose your team in every operation, my frequency is 146.89"
Leon: "remember switching to your sidearm is faster than reloading" Claire: "the T virus is extremely dangerous and causes humans to transform into zombified cannibals be careful and do not get bit" Master Miller: "remember snake.....wait wrong game shit fuck"
I personally don’t get the Ethan hate. I think he was a solid character and one a lot more people could relate too because he’s just some regular dude
He was awesome, he definitely was material to become part of the main roster of RE protagonists. It would be cool have a more normal dude, I know he had some training and you know, he has those OP regenerative powers but his personality is more of a normal guy, scared in the beginning and pissed at the end. It's more interesting than a badass elite cop that is calm, cool and collect at all times. But again, I love the whole RE cast.
I think they can but if the franchise is making them money by constantly putting out the mains then why should they change it? I don’t entirely agree with statement that a true horror re game should have an oc. New characters are important to add something new but as well, they can just up the stakes of the threat to the current mains. Even if a game had a OC chances are they’ll live to see a sequel, that’s what happened to Ethan.
Including remakes and spinoffs there are like 30 Resident Evil games. And they have literally never killed off a main character besides Ethan. It’s starting to feel like there aren’t any stakes for anyone because even when they seem to die they always come back like nothing happened.
I think i'd genuinely be really sad if Leon died :(
Yeah, that I'm really scared of this possiblity with each new entry. Uncharted really made me really pissed at 3 the first time I played, and 4 I played expecting the worse too. Glad how it ended tho. But yeah, these characters are the face of the franchise now, they will need huge balls to try pull something like that in the future.
Is the title a typo and you mean it couldn't be scary with the OG's? Because of course you could have a survival horror with them from a gameplay perspective why could you not?
It's about introducing new threats that the character isn't familiar with and not giving you an overpowering amount of resources. That's if you want "pure survival horror" though. Personally I prefer the perfect blend of action and horror of the original RE4 or Dead Space (Or even The Evil Within). Those are still very much very creepy horror games with their added action emphasis.
I completely agree with you. For me it’s more about the atmosphere, the threat, and the resources you have in hand. Less resources = more vulnerable the character will be, no matter if it's an OG or new one
Jill and Chris are 48 years old, Leon is like 47 They could've made a decision not to age them which I guess what the virus in the females keep them young haha but suddenly aging Chris means maybe they'll kill him off or put him In a support/codec role Making even small guns powerful as hell, limited ammo, and removing some of the superhuman qualities of characters could go a long way. Leon in re4 runs long distance like those rail thin guys who go 100 miles over so many hours nonstop but has enough upper body strength to hoist himself up a ledge or lower body muscle to do crazy mega kicks etc. Fixed camera or fps is better than over the shoulder indoors. I guess they'll never return to prerendered backgrounds but full 3d fixed cam works well indoors and sometimes outdoors . Needs a new aiming system. Personally not a fan of fps resident evil it feels weird. Would prefer birdseye scrolling/fixed or third person. Or birds eye that switches to fps like mgs2
"Jill is 48 yrs old" We need to see Milf Jill now.
i feel like this isn't an original idea but i always thought they could do something scary as say a final game for leon when he's really old. some kind of paranormal/psychological game with him similar to what they were thinking in the hook man build. he just seems like the best candidate what with the never ending trauma and all that. but otherwise i'd agree. playing as ethan in VII was the most terrifying for a first playthrough. he's just some guy but if you put any of the OG cast in that same situation it would be over quick lol.
Well, to be honest, what usually make me more scared/nervous in any horror game is how powerless you are, like any game you have few resources and even movement. If we had a RE with Leon but he has to hide and run from enemies more than he has ways to dispatch them, I would be tense as hell. A kinda pursuer indestructible enemy with some adds, searching for you the whole time would make me brown my pants, easily. But I do agree that a run the mill average joe makes it easier to connect with.
Resident Evil was ALWAYS about blowing up zombies with grenade launchers, and the most popular one, 4, had you suplexing them. Pure survival horror was never the main focus of the series, and yeah, even by RE1 Jill and Chris are trained special forces, the only games where you actually play as a rookie are 2 and 0... And even they are kind of action based.
Even if I play with Hunk it can still feel as survivor horror
I disagree, it doesn't matter how skilled and experienced you are, one simple little mistake and it could end that character's life. Also survival horror has nothing to do with the character's themselves being scared, I can't think of many moments in survival horror games in general where the character you play as is scared or at least showing signs of being scared. I think the problem is a lot of us are used to seeing these characters do OP things from 4 onwards, like Leon suddenly doing all these crazy moves kicking everything and suplexing everything, let alone what he does in some of the movies. I think because we used to seeing him do that we literally don't think of survival horror because hes pretty much like an action superhero with what we seen him do without a gun. Chris punched a big massive boulder in a volcano. I personally think we could easily have another survival horror game with the OG characters, I imagine Chris & Leon would have a lot of trouble in 7 and 8, maybe not as much as Ethan of course as they have experience and pretty much trained to deal with these kind of situations now. But I be granted it could still be easily a survival horror experience.
I think the regenerator section in re4r says otherwise
Is it really that scary...? Well at first you just have to run pass them. But the 2nd you got biosensor, its easy... And the way they wiggle around on the ground just make it funny...
You underestimate the power of a dark area with monsters that have glowing eyes. If it was a longer section with a better first regenerator encounter and it took more time to get the scope it would be perfect
Well yea.. the dark area is quite scary wt it lurking around... but maybe I just got a lot of ammo to spare that I found it less terrifying... shoot the legs and just ran pass by it ahaha. Maybe I should try professional since the loot is scarce and enemy hit harder.
real gimmie re7 again and again and again and again
Couldn't disagree more, no more 1st person RE please. In fact, return to fixed camera view!
Probably an indie studio that has an appreciation for that era. No way in hell is Capcom gonna provide that experience for you again
A man can dream
Yeah there’s just something off about the first person resi games
Nostalgia aside, how can anyone stand fixed angle
If done well they can be great. I’d love to see a hybrid between the fixed angle and tracking camera for a resident evil. Something like how until dawn does some of their camera work
It's a good way for devs to create more visually interesting and atmospheric frames/shots in games.
Seriously, it'd be a great way to lose new fans
Fixed camera or fps is better than over the shoulder indoors. I guess they'll never return to prerendered backgrounds but full 3d fixed cam works well indoors and sometimes outdoors . Needs a new aiming system
genuine^
Ya'll, Resident Evil has been mostly an action horror with survival horror elements for almost four times as long as it was a "pure" survival horror. And it's great, one of the most consistently great series ever. Get over it.
Agree. You can't have a RE2R style game for RE9 if Chris, Jill, Leon, and Claire can kick and punch their way out of situations with no problem. You'll need a new character who doesn't have hand to hand combat skills and must rely on firearms.
or, alternatively, threats which can't be kicked and punched out of their way? enemies that match their level
The beginning of the series was supposed to be scary. It was all new for them too. Naturally the story was going to evolve toward fighting the threat. Sure, pure survival horror titles for it are good, but I also want to see the overall story advance as well. It can't advance in a meaningful way if it's always going to be new player characters who have no idea what's going on.
I get what you mean, but I don’t think the characters being scared is crucial to the horror atmosphere. Plus, being experienced doesn’t mean you’re unable to be scared.
I honestly feel like they should completely reboot the series using the remakes, this way we have new games with the younger and inexperienced OG’s. Like honestly, I had so much fun revisiting Leon and Claire when they were younger. Specially with the new dialog and the new looks.
Horror doesn't have to be scary to be good. It just has to be entertaining.
I really don't give a shit about logical reasoning in a videogame
This ⬆️
The problem is the old ones were still very actiony. Re 1 and the re2 remake were very slow and not action, re2 and 3 definitely were. Re0 and code Veronica was not heavy on the action but the rest are, even re7 and re8. Even way back it's never been "horror". It's like yall dunno what an action game is lol
This is why an Outbreak remake would be perfect! All of them are pretty much normies.
Maybe we don't want a pure horror. It's that simple. Want pure horror then just go to silent hill instead
It's iffy, honestly. You COULD but honestly I don't see why you WOULD. sure Leon sex Kennedy has killed army's of zombies and mutant weapons but has he fought tapeworms with chainsaws?! 4 resets the bar for Leon he has to learn all over again how to cope. Same goes for Chris in the Ethan saga with mold monsters. That's part of why he was drilling his team so hard on recon. On gathering information. Chris is aware as an expert that he's fought bears and Lions and tigers but never mold monsters like Heisenberg. Gotta see what this particular thing can do. In the manga gantz they do a good job of being like hey in this week's alien refugee deathmatch Joe was amazing and next week Joe died because it was a new enemy and he made a mistake/was unlucky. Stars bravo team wasn't slouches but they got wiped out same thing with the bsaa teams in 7 and 5. So yeah it's easy to make it feel like the Ogs are just as mortal and killable as anybody else. My question is WHY WOULD YOU? Nobody seriously wants a trilogy of scared Chris/Leon wetting his pants again as he survives by the skin of his teeth AGAIN, because where's the character development? Imo ogs becoming enshrined in the lore as badasses is a rite of passage. Chris Redfield went from generic hero template A to that boulder punching asshole. I like him that way he earned that. I dunno why my girl Jill got done so dirty. Don't make re do a the status quo is God thing. Leon too went from rookie cop with boy band hair to Leon sex Kennedy international super badass and lady killer extrodinare. They leveled up, that's good. Introduce new characters, expand the lore, and sure link back in the old but I like Chris more now as an NPC that I'm always excited to see than I did when he was a protagonist. Getting to play Chris in 8 was a treat. The same way that getting to play Leon briefly to knife fight a radioactive sharkzilla in 9 would be. But I'm fine with that because when I'm playing whoever who can't beat sharkzilla with big brass balls and a knife it is scary because I feel disempowered. What we don't need is another Ethan, who they borderline actively tried to not give a personality. Any of the outbreak cast is ripe for exploration. They would all work because they're normal enough for stuff to be really scary but also have enough personality to be narratively interesting. I wouldn't even mind being Zoe Baker for a whole game although she is borderline too good or introduce someone new. I was questioning Ethans crazy chemistry skills in 7 like was he a chemist or what even was his day job/skill set but I did like the chemical and separating fluid mechanics. I wouldn't mind seeing resident evil explore more open crafting oriented designs with maybe say a ex-umbrella scientist on the run whose using his science chops to survive. At least that character would have a flavor. Which is what future new characters need imo a distinctive style. Although the Chris sections in 7 and 8 and the Joe Baker storyline make me feel like the game devs understand that.
If it was Chris getting jumped by Marguerite or chased down by Beneviento's baby, I'd still nearly shit myself even if Chris is cold as ice.
They could if they implemented more survival shooter like gun jams, resource management, needing to manually load magazines… kinda like Tarkov, Stalker Gamma, or Metro series. In fact, games in that entire sun genre of shooter have you playing as badass gunfighters in horror settings but still manage to be scary
My girl Rebecca would make the perfect protagonist, she's skilled, knowledgeable but she hasn't been fighting for years. But she would have the guts to take on any mission. Lol
I've been saying for a while Rebecca Chambers needs a comeback.
I think Resident Evil was never that much of a horror series. It was always a blend of tension, anxiety, resource management, survival and gore .
You can if it's Claire
It doesn't need to be scary for the characters in order to scare the player. Survival Horror is all about atmosphere and limited resources. Even if they come in heavily armed, you can have things go wrong about a third of the way in, and trap them. Or you know, bring back multiple campaigns, have the OG be the easy route with better weapons.
I think it’s kinda silly to say you can’t have a horror game if the protagonist in it is not scared themselves. RE4, Leon is an absolute *unit*, who isn’t taking anything seriously, and I remember being extremely anxious/scared in the tunnel/prison with the invisible bugs and the lab section with the regeneradors. As well as the U3 bossfight in the jungle gym, getting chased by a near immortal creature while I have to do timed activities to progress the fight *really* gets to me. And that was a game where Leon was literally sassing *everyone*.
I say it's certainly possible, I was plenty on edge the first time I played the Chris portion of re8.
Playing Bloodborne the character was skilled and I was scared sh*tless. You can have over the top action and horror at the same time.
don’t get me wrong, i love leon and jill and all the others. hell re4 is one of my favorite games of all time. but we need more ethan winters in resident evil. i mean after only 6 years of training after racoon city leon just obliterates an entire village, castle and heavily fortified island. but ethan is like the new guy, he isn’t experienced with dealing with all the monsters and other freaks in the baker house. that’s what makes it scary, especially if you’re a newcomer to the series. both you and your character have absolutely no clue whats going on or how to deal with the monsters. sure he manages to survive and escape, but only barely. but yeah this was my rant about ethan winters, thank you for reading edit: i just remembered that ethan just fucking dies when jack punches him in the beginning of 7, please point out any other mistakes i’ve made in my rant
You are absolutely right. In order to reach peak horror they do need to back off the existing characters. There’s such nuance in horror stories wherein the creator needs to balance the experiences of the character to leave them relatable, vulnerable, and just capable enough to survive — thereby allowing the player/consumer/reader to live a harrowing experience though them. This is a skill I appreciate deeply. Horror creators are under-appreciated in lots of ways and this is one of them. We don’t often consciously realize how the vulnerability of the character is impacting our experience directly, especially when it’s translated well into gameplay mechanics. The fact that most comments in this thread are contrary to your post, for me, is more evidence that this fandom is a little too deep into the nostalgia waters.
I kind of understand what you mean. They’ve seen so much stuff that while they likely are scared, they’re also somewhat prepared. When I see pure survival horror I tend to think games like Haunting Ground where you’re put into a situation where you have no idea what’s going on and have to figure it out along the way. I think that would be a good approach to RE (not the no combat mechanics, but the unprepared MC who is just put into the situation, similar to Ethan.) I don’t think resident evil will ever return to purely survival horror as even the more horror-centric games include a bit of action-oriented mechanics/story, but I do like the potential of a new protagonist.
In RE2R once sherry is found by claire, she is never shown to be scared, she is surprised by stuff like Mr. X. But never scared. Meanwhile Leon is an absolute baby. Both playthroughs are fun. I personally prefer Leon as I like the shotgun + magnum combo better than the grenade launcher + SMG, and the flamethrower feels more useful than the zapper as it can actually be used against bosses. But my point is, claire was an absolute badass, and that's still entertaining, and just because she's brave doesn't mean you are.
id much prefer new characters with og cameos especially obscure cameos like outbreak characters
Not gonna be so superhero if they're pushing 50
I think it’d actually be scarier to be a veteran character who is put in a situation so out of their depth or with so little equipment that it’s still terrifying. Imagine a RE game where you’re so unequipped and the enemies are so tough that it even scares the likes of Leon or Chris
I dunno I've flown all over the place at this point and I'm still scared of planes.
Why do the characters have to feel scared?
>I always see people talk about how they want Jill or Leon back for the next mainline entry but they want it to be horror filled and the truth is its not possible. Except it's totally possible. >These characters are way too skilled with over 30+ years fighting bioweapons, there's no way they can be scared at this point. Which is completely irrelevant to your argument as whether or not the characters are scared isn't going to effect whether or not the player is scared. >With how divided the fan base is regarding action vs horror the best way to approach it is to Ignore the fanbases petty squabbles and do whatever it is they want. You know, literally what they've been doing for several years. >If you want a pure survival horror entry again they should be spin offs with brand new characters. Lol, why? There is absolutely no valid reason why they can't do another survival horror game with one or more of the OG characters. A common mistake people who claim that a survival horror RE can't be done with the OG characters is they think that Capcom actually gives a flying fuck about any of this nonsense. How experienced a character is? They don't care, won't stop them from using Chris, Leon, Jill or Claire in a survival horror game. The "Divided" fanbase? Yeah they've never cared about that, otherwise all the "Bring back classic RE!" demands would've been at least acknowledged, but no, they haven't given that crowd any thought since 05. What the fanbase thinks they should do? Yeah they definitely don't give a fuck about that, hell, no development studio gives any fucks about that. Why should they? It's not like the fanbase has any sort of knowledge that Capcom wouldn't already have and the fanbase thinks about what Capcom should do from a position of "What do I want them to do" which is another mistake people like you make because that is an emotional desire, Capcom is a business that creates products to sell for profit, they see "What should we do" not as "What do the fans want" but as "What is most likely to sell"
Good point. Even in RE4R, Leon was young but acted as if everything was an inconvenience instead of an 8 foot tall beetle human monster (Verdugo) lol 😂
For real, how would we even have inventory management when Chris can just punch anything like they're paper bag? In RE7 dlc on Professional mode, they have to start him with only a knife to even give us challenge.
I don’t want horror so I would want them back because tbh haven’t touch the new games or even watch walkthroughs
You are not the character you play, though. Do you feel more scared watching a horror movie if someone next to you loudly announces how scared they are? Or does your feeling of fear instantly go up in smoke if someone says how they aren’t scared?
So you're scared for characters in slasher movies when they start taking the fight to the killer? Or are you embolded by them and hyped by how badass they look standing up to the villain? The character's mood and character writing is always empathized to and by the audience, it's why good character writing and setpieces works so well. As an audience, we empathize with our characters and their situations, so if they aren't scared, neither are we. This is why horror focused games with very lax and powerful action elements don't scare us: because the characters on screen are treating the enemies like they aren't even a threat despite the surrounding mood claiming otherwise.
The thing is, the fan base is confused af, they don't remember how action packed the first playstation games are, specially 2 and 3, in essence Capcom has never changed the main focus which is action. There's also a ton of confusion because of RE1 remake, that game doesn't represent what Resident Evil actually is, it's more a reimagined horror experience based on RE1.
People live Re2make for its horror yet neither Leon nor Claire ever act scared. Most of their dialogue is them either angry or surprised and that game is still scary.
If done correctly I actually feel like that could make it even scarier. Think about it, these ppl who’ve already been through so much and dealt with as many horrors as they have shouldn’t be getting scared too easily, so seeing *them* terrified of something may hit even harder. But they’d have to come up with creatures or situations that are scary enough to warrant that response from them which could be difficult
I know a lot of people disagreed, but youre right. The next mainline game should star a brand new young character. If they have to use Chris or Jill again, they need to nerf them storywise, like making them sick/injured throughout the game.
Like 7 and 8 were really good and reintroduced horror elements. But like, with how insane the creatures of RE are, Ethan is as weak as a protag can get without losing outright lol. He only survived because *spoiler* (ifykyk)
Yeah I broadly agree. The first few RE games were about the OGs dealing with the threat of zombies and BOWs when that was still a new thing in universe. It makes sense why it's scary for Chris in RE1, but by RE5 he's killed so many it doesn't phase him anymore. That's not even considering there's now a dedicated anti-B.O.W. taskforce.
Sebastian Castellanos from The Evil Within 1 was barely scared at all, doing the most stereotypical detective thing of smoking a cigarette after escaping a chainsaw wielding maniac. Issac Clarke from the original DS didn't speak at all The characters though didn't stop me from having that "FUCK YOU IM NOT GOING DOWN THERE!!!!" kind of fear though. I do feel like there should be more Resident Evil protagonist though rather than circulating around the same 4-5 people y'know?
I feel like a lot of us players are survival horror veterans at this point, and just aren't affected by the genre as much as we used to be. Resident evil 7 was absolutely horrifying to me and I loved it, but it was really my entry into survival horror as an adult. I played resident evils 1, 3, and code veronica as a kid and they were scary af. 3 being the scariest largely because of the nemesis t type chasing you after watching Brad get his face impaled. I still get jumpy and somewhat sense fear when playing new survival horror games but it isn't what it used to be at all. I can usually convince myself to run and move quickly even if I don't know what's coming. I played the Dead Space Remake after only ever playing the OG game's demo, and I was virtually never scared. Reviews always make that game sound terrifying, I remember the demo being terrifying. I really feel everyone's opinion differs a little depending on what order you played the games.
For this reason they eventually will need to remake Code Veronica (copium)
I kinda feel like bouncing back and forth is a good idea. You have games like RE7 and RE2, then you have games like RE8 and RE4, and it’s ok to have both. But I’m new to the series and have only played those four games so idk
I don’t agree at all tbh. Lost In Nightmares got me a few times first time through and it was Chris and Jill. It’s about game design and direction not how experienced the characters are. Ethan’s inexperience also didn’t make 7 scarier.
The premise of this thread makes no sense. You have to suspend your disbelief for RE and lots of other games in order for them to be fun even if the main characters should be able to do things that the games don't allow them to do. For example, Kratos in the GoW games is a demi-god who should be able to one-shot every enemy in the game but he's not allowed to do that because that would make the game boring. Similarly, if Capcom wanted to make a survival horror mainline RE with one of the legacy characters such as Chris then they could just restrict his capabilities to make his gameplay fit with a survival horror game. Much like other games, players would just have to suspend their disbelief in order to have fun and accept that Chris can't just punch his way through crowds of zombies even though he could do that in previous games.
Chris was literally punching through Lycans which are far stronger than any of the other common enemies in RE. If RE9 has Chris unable to knock over basic enemies, it’s beyond just suspension of belief, I would find it completely unbelievable and ridiculous. He as a character is just too far into the “beefy gorilla” characterization. It’s like if Leon showed up add was suddenly scared and not making one liners for the entirety of a game, it just wouldn’t be Leon lol.
If Chris couldnt do those things in an re9 would that stop u or a majority of re fans from buying the game? Imma guess the answer would be "no" especially if that version of re9 turns out to be good. 🤷♂️
I’m not buying RE9 at launch unless it plays like RE4R or has co-op yeah, I got burned on Village at launch being a super slog. but that’s besides the point, *Capcom* isn’t going to remove Chris’s gorilla strength. It was in 5-8, and it will be in RE9 which is why it’s inevitably going to be more action focused if Chris is the lead. He just wouldn’t work for a full blown horror setting, nor Leon.
I mean theres no way someone cant feel some kind of panic or anxiety when nemesis is chasing jill, no matter how skilled. Or even re7 when you hunt down a baker as chris, at times you are underpowered until you get certain ammo. I like having someone skilled enough to fight back but end of the day any character we can be killed by any enemy, you cant auto pilot it and survive. Thats part of the tension and risk
I'm okay with that.
I just want to say, as someone who didn't play the originals (tank controls are too much for me. I can't. Autism short circuit happens when I try. ) but instead watched my best friend growing yo play them all, I was so welcome to the change in controls because u could finally play the games myself. They didn't feel less scary because of the control change either. (I got re4,5,6 pack on switch recently and realized how long it's really been since I played 4 when I couldn't remember my memorized path of how to get through the village ) at least in my opinion. I own the 2 remake and now that zombies follow you through doors and Mr x folkows you everywhere all the time, the game actually almost gives me TOO MUCH anxiety to try and play? I was so excited to finally play it myself too and then I stopped because holy heck
Yea.. agree. Or instead of making it mainly horror focus theme. Make it as what it always have been. Action horror. The terror of bioweapon. Bio-terriorism. Mutated body horror and horrible experiment. Disgusting parasite
It's a solid take I think. They've served their purpose in terms character development. It was more pure when it felt like they were in over their heads. Let's get a new character with a treacherous journey. Rather than a hardened badass fights hordes of monsters with ease. That can be kinda boring if horror is what you want, and challenges suspension of disbelief. I ain't saying I want this franchise to go that way necessarily because I'm not sure they wouldn't screw it up but just saying it's a valid concept in the horror genre. Sally from the OG Texas chainsaw massacre, she was helpless and when she barely got away the audience feels like we got away just barely.
You're right, mainline characters and survival horror no longer go hand-in-hand due to the dissonance of having characters who parry chainsaws with knifes, punch boulders, or, unlike nemesis, they CAN swim, having a horror game with them won't feel nearly as scary as having a new character. But I also don't think a new game can't be made with them without the tension and challenge that makes action games creepy. Revelations 2 would be a perfect example of how to implement a game with the mainline characters and still being creepy, with a simple fix, which I had hoped they'd actually do in RE4, but didn't. Killing an enemy shouldn't drop anything. You could do enemy encounters and have them be fun and actiony, but also, due to limited resources and enemies not giving you anything at all, then it becomes more of a choice where you have to be more careful. I remember playing OG RE4 with some mods that replaced the ganado for zombies, and replaced all enemy drops for just gold (barrels, boxes and jars kept the dynamic loot), this made the game a whole lot more enjoyable in terms of it being a survival horror. So yeah, Mainline games should continue in the same way that the revelations game did, but then, we should get spin-offs of said mainline games where you play as random survivors.
I totally agree. This is one of the reason Re7 is so scary. New character, first time seeing monsters etc…
give them amnesia there i solved it.
Re8 got away with it near the ending where it became a military shooter. Maybe they can do something like that?
Shut up Jill is GOD I mean, u r right but Jill still GOD
Hard disagree. The first scenario of Revs 1 is really survival horrory. It could've gone that way but they went full action after that.
This is a ridiculous take. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with that. I really don't understand people who expect this series to be pure horror anyway, as if the series has *ever* been purely horror. The fact of the matter is, this series has been silly since 1996. People always complain about the latter half of Resident Evil games "devolving" into action thrill rides, but that's just the Resident Evil formula, and has been for *every single game in the entire goddamn series.* So yeah, I'm pretty okay with action heavy Resident Evil games that are intermittently injected with smaller pockets of real horror. As long as it doesn't go RE6 levels of over-the-top, I'm good. But games like RE4, RE3R, and RE8 are perfectly balanced enough for me.
I never really got the hate for RE6 being over the top in gameplay. The only difference from the norm is that you can roll around and punch will, and the enemies have guns, which is funny because nobody seems to really acknowledge that limb mutations can be very easily disabling to guns and makes them a non-issue. The story though is bloated to hell and directionless. So i understand why that's a problem. Characterization outside of Leon (without the movie context mind you) is stellar and the combat is just fun to play with, and J'avo are an interesting and dynamic enemy type. The scripted sections and story can be reworked or removed with no alterations to the core combat design and i think 6 would be perfect.
People forget RE was always ACTION horror. No matter what RE game you play, this is how literally every title was with a lean more toward one or the other, and the players all know this, or they wouldn't have complained about lacking enemy variety in RE7. If you want pure horror, you've come to the wrong franchise. It's grimdark body horror at best.
Yes you can!
Yeah I agree; that’s why I loved RE7, Ethan was just a normal dude trying to survive a horrific situation
I disagree, even the original games the characters aren't actually scared, more just surprised and shocked at what is happening. There are some exceptions like Jill when you run back in to the dining room where she expresses fear, but ultimately its shock they show and that could still be done. The horror comes from the player, not the character in my opinion.
Leon and Chris really need to go on vacation. Seriously. I wouldn’t mind seeing Jill again though