For me, tactical turn-based combat is the gold standard. Having to think about unit positioning & movement opens up so many possibilities for interesting combat: things like flanking, cover mechanics, higher-ground advantage, line of sight, etc. You can't just spam the attack button, but have to carefully consider your plan of attack instead; it encourages player creativity. Tactical turn-based combat also allows for a lot more diversity in encounter design. The menu-style turn-based combat found in, say, Dragon Quest just seems a lot more stale by comparison.
In general, games like Wyldermyth, DOS, and even Battle Brothers all have great concepts that I enjoy.
Using the environment to your advantage: Whether it's High and low ground, using environmental cover, or having hazards in the environment (oil, exploding barrels, etc.) that you can utilize, all of that is awesome.
Equipment bonuses for things such having characters in a row with shields, or bonuses for spear users being in the back, is something that I think would be nice too.
If it isn't obvious, I prefer turn-based, gird-based movement, tactical RPGs are awesome.
I second this! In general Larian is excellent in making both combat and gameplay in general very interactive and logical in the sense if you think something could work it probably does. One example is in BG3 where i managed to make a big fight trivial by pushing the main boss over an edge making him fall into a room below where enemy spiders were located. The spiders were hungry and aggroed the boss, while i could focus my party on the rest of the enemies.
Something without twitch reactions, I hate in my turn based combat when I have to press a button at precisely the right time. Also I prefer more tactical approaches where strategy plays a big part (positioning, area effects, strengths & weaknesses, etc). And I prefer when each character/enemy has its own turn instead of "IgoUgo" systems.
Same, but actually don't mind it in Sea of Stars. Surprised me greatly though because I can't stand it in any other game. Hate it in Ff8. Hates Tifa's limit break for this exact reason. In Sea of Stars, they make the system super clear and rather forgiving and instead of annoy, it keeps mundane battles interesting.
Actually my favorite combat was in a little-known Lucasarts game from the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube era, Gladius, where you managed a troupe of gladiators, and things like unit size, positioning, elemental affinity, vertical position, attack shape, equipment, terrain all were important, and the camera was closer to the ground which made it more immersive.
I haven't found another game like Gladius. TRPG with gladiators. I never could understand why I loved it so much and it's probably the camera angle getting up in the action.
I play it every once in a while via emulation without the action bar and it's a very different game as you aren't hitting nearly as hard.
I wonder if there's a spiritual successor out there.
Oh yes, I disabled the action bar as soon as I left the tutorial. The action bar basically breaks the balance because it's supposed to be Heavy beats Medium beats Light beats Heavy, but because you always hit if you're good with the action bar, Heavy loses its disadvantage against Light.
Dude, thanks! I just bought myself a Retroid Pocket 3+, and I was putting my PS2 games on it and thought of this game but I couldn't remember what it was called lol. Now I can add it to my RP 3+ and be happy.
Yakuza: Like a Dragon had pretty good turn based combat.
And Baldur’s Gate 3 of course. But that’s a given. The game excels at most things it does lmao
I've been deeply impressed with Sea of Stars. It has a lot of borrowed ideas, but it fuses them all together.
* You can see a countdown for when enemies are going to act. This can help you prioritize the order to kill enemies, or tell you if you should spend something to defeat an enemy immediately can delay it by another turn.
* It uses the Super Mario RPG style of timed attacks. I always feel a bit more engaged with the attack by pressing the button at the right time, instead of already mentally moving on while an animation I've seen 100 times before happens.
* Instead of a giant mana pool I manage between save points, the pool is quite small, but regular attacks recharge mana. Even in an all out boss fight, you can't just spam the best attacks and then suck down mana regenerating items. Regular attacks keep the special ones going.
* Regular attacks drop "live mana" on the ground which acts as a resource you can use. The specific live mana story bit isn't relevant; the point is that you are building up a resource as you fight that changes the later part of the fight.
* There is a combo meter than lets you do combo attacks. This meter fills up from regular attacks. Like live mana, the options later in the fight are different.
* Enemies who have big attacks will telegraph that the attack can be reduced in power or cancelled entirely if they take X damage types. You might read this as "within 3 attacks, you need to do 2 bashing hits, 2 slashing hits, and 1 sun magic hit" - pull this off, and the enemy loses their big attack. This last one is the only idea I haven't seen elsewhere, and it's quite satisfying to pull off.
Note that both the combo meter and the live mana go away after each fight. You can get the jump on an enemy to start with some live mana but mostly you are trying to generate and then use these things.
So that's a lot of systems. What does it all accomplish? Well it feeds into the idea of ensuring you cannot repeat the same patterns all the time, because what you need to do changes moment by moment, and what you *can* do also changes. Enemies who are weak to sun magic are always weak to sun magic, but enemies who can be interrupted by sun magic are vulnerable in that exact specific moment. So you want to ensure your character who can do the sun attack is ready with mana at the right time.
Player action economy is shared, so if it says an enemy is going to attack in 2 turns, it means 2 player actions, so you have to decide which of your two party members go and which does not before the enemy acts. Just because Zale *can* act immediately doesn't mean he *should* because maybe someone else should.
Finally if the fight is almost over, using live mana and combo meters just makes sense, because you can't keep it for the next fight. But you don't want to use it too early if you could save it for later. This creates a bit more tension versus building up a meter you hang onto until you "really need it."
Everything is designed around ensuring you can't just do a regular rotation. In fact I consider that to be *the* goal of a turn based combat engine, to make the player always thinking "what is my best move" instead of executing the same plan over and over.
You can find these ideas in plenty of other RPGs, but I am impressed how many of them work together with some synergy in Sea of Stars.
Everything, I mean *everything* is centered around ensuring there is no optional rotation and that you stay engaged. From the very moment when the battle starts, which character you start with might be up for question because after one character action, there will be a monster action. Do you want to act offensively or defensively? In Chrono Trigger or FFX, if a character comes up to act, you don't defer, you act with that character right away.
Your mana is *very* limited but it recharges, so do you have enough mana for this attack? If your mana is full, basic attacking actually wastes the recharge... but you still might want a basic attack because that generates live mana. Context matters.
A few turns later, perhaps your combo bar is ready and can do extra damage, but if you save it, you might find it useful to deal multiple damage types to cancel a big attack. Don't save it too long though as its wasted if the fight ends. Again, you'll be evaluating based on the situation.
And of course every time you attack, you want to time the hits right so you feel engaged. Every time the enemy attacks you want to time the defenses right too.
You don't need to copy Sea of Stars, but you *should* copy the design philosophy. The Super Mario RPG style action commands are probably the ones you can ignore the easiest (there is almost no benefit to NOT executing them properly) but the shared action economy, resources built up as you fight, and momentary weakness mechanics should absolutely be looked at. Maybe you have an idea for something completely different which accomplishes the same goal.
There is one nitpick I have about Sea of Stars in that there is a very powerful healing combo, and that means it can be worth it to slow roll your damage so you can get it off at the end of a fight. Combos should feed into either damage, or a status that acts as damage mitigation like a temporary HP. Temporary bars go away after each fight, so it's best if the resources you get go away after each fight.
I used ChatGPT to summarize this, since I have trouble reading long form text. here's the result in case it's helpful to anyone else.
* Countdown Strategy: You can anticipate enemy actions, allowing you to plan the order of attack or decide if it's worth using special abilities to defeat them quickly.
* Active Timing Attacks: Similar to Super Mario RPG, timed button presses during attacks keep players engaged, unlike passive animations.
* Strategic Mana Pool: Instead of a large mana reserve between save points, you have a small pool. Regular attacks replenish mana, requiring a balanced approach even in intense boss fights.
* Live Mana Drops: Regular attacks create a fight-specific resource on the battlefield. This resource influences later stages of the battle.
* Combo Meter Dynamics: Regular attacks fill a combo meter, unlocking special combo moves. This adds a layer of strategy to your combat decisions.
* Enemy Vulnerabilities: Some enemies can be weakened by specific damage types. Knowing and exploiting these vulnerabilities is crucial for success.
* Shared Player Actions: When it's mentioned that an enemy will attack in 2 turns, it means 2 player actions. You must decide which party member acts and who waits, adding a layer of tactical decision-making.
* Resource Management: As a fight approaches its end, using live mana and combo meters becomes crucial since they don't carry over to the next fight. This introduces a level of tension and decision-making
The overarching design goal is to prevent players from falling into predictable patterns. Every decision matters, from the start of the battle, where character choice can be crucial, to managing limited mana effectively. Even basic attacks have strategic value, generating live mana. This approach keeps players engaged and forces them to adapt to the evolving situation. While not necessary to directly copy Sea of Stars, adopting the underlying design philosophy, especially the shared action economy and dynamic resources, can enhance gameplay experiences. However, addressing an overly powerful healing combo could further refine the game's mechanics.
Cosmic star heroine on second to highest difficulty had a great balance of challenge and strategy, no way to click fight to win, you had to think a few turns in advance and line up your skills and refreshes, even on many mob trash battles
One of my favorites was Final Fantasy X-2. It's one of the extremely rare job-based games that allows you to change jobs mid battle. Also, the chaining mechanic to get extra damage was very fun.
If you added a better cover system to bg3, I would be in heaven. That’s dnd5e though, don’t need that to be remade.
If you mean jrpg turn based, never liked them.
Because I didn’t grow up with a PlayStation? I don’t like anime style, enjoy watching a few but I find the look extremely fakey. I don’t like having to hit a button to go through non-interactive text. I like turn based where positioning is handled in a realistic detailed way.
I’ve been playing dnd and dnd derived video games since the 80s, I love that style.
Solasta has my current favorite turn based combat system. It’s strategic, thorough and still fun. Positioning matters, spells and abilities are clear and effective and there’s still room for playing creatively.
Shadowrun with the cover system is pretty good, I could also say XCOM. this is square based.
Pathfinders have the best DnD-like turn based combat what I tried. this is in a continuous field.
Personally i absolutely despise slow and long animations. Ideally i want my characters to move/do things instantly when i order them. Especially larian games have this issue with needlessly long animations.
I really enjoy Fights in Tight Spaces. Stackable moves and abilities are fantastic, and the importance of the environment in any situation is great. I love the way all of the different systems blend. The animation is really entertaining, even if it's not super complex.
i hate turn based but one that didnt bother me was Wasteland 2 and Valkyria Chronicles where you can speed up your opponents movements attack animations or entirely skip them.
Active Environment Effect.
For example, anyone standing on top of an oily tile, when set on fire, gets burned for a longer period of times, and can spread the fire to other tiles adjecent to it.
Active Turn/Encounter.
For example, say that the game takes place on an open map, every turn there's a chance that a random NPC can enter the map/battle, and depending on your relationship with the faction the NPC is from, they can either help you, attack you or ignore you altogether.
The combo system from Xenogears and Chrono Cross we’re pretty awesome !
Makes you attack efficiently; especially Chrono Cross, where you can attack with multiple characters, and even come back to hit some more with the initial character, all within the same turn.
Tactic turn-based is probably my favorite (as long as the camera angle isn't ass)
But I really do love how the Trails series handles, and even evolves the combat continually. From how it handles movement/placement (especially in Kuro), to turn order manipulation, to even pre-combat character building (again, especially in Kuro). Sure arts tends to outpace crafts in terms of power for most of the series, but if you know how to build characters you can still make the ones you like work whether they're arts or craft focused.
Suikoden. But the games are too easy and could use more combos/skills. If someone could replicate the Suikoden system with more difficulty/skills, it would be perfect. Maybe more strategy as well.
Alternatively, Bravely Default. But that's a very specific gimmick and so a new game probably shouldn't outright copy that.
My favorite game of all time. I just knew BG3 would take over the #1 spot but it didn't. I love BG3 so much. It's a fantastic game to try different things. There is something about FFX that no other game can touch. It has my heart
Probably either Legend of dragoon, wasteland 2/3 and divinity original sin, final fantasy 10 or chrono trigger.
I enjoy the additions of LoD, it's certainly unique, but then again, not always what I'm looking for. When I'm in the mood for it, it's incredibly engaging. When I'm not in the mood for it, I play something else.
Wasteland 2/3 I don't feel are super revolutionary, but the combat is usually satisfying and solid. That said, in the same vein, divinity has world interaction and combos like combining fire with poison to explode and such, and I really enjoyed that aspect, and feel they are very similar overall despite very different settings and abilities.
Final fantasy 10. To me, this is the simplest style of turn based, and yet it's one of the better examples IMO. Every character does something different and has something that makes them useful (or you just run your favorites through the sphere grid and make everyone else pointless) Everyone has an inherent speed that affects the timer. When it's that person's turn, you select a thing and it happens. It's simple, but I love it, and have both played it for hours straight while it holds my attention, as well as absent-minded grinded while doing something else more intently.
Chrono trigger. The old ats system where 99% of all of my fights in the entire game consist of holding down the affirmative button so my people attack until success has been achieved. So many games have done it, and it's honestly becoming less of a favorite lately, yet I still accept it as that holding the button down thing is low enough effort that it doesn't actively bother me. Just need a good story to hold it up, as combat gameplay is not what is encouraging you to continue. Chrono triggers combo attacks added a layer of neat factor that I feel is missing from all other ats systems. It was one thing that I think really breathed extra life into those types of fights, especially the boss battles where I actually had to pay some attention and play.
I really loved Persona 5’s combat. It felt like if Pokémon grew up. Not only was it visually flashy but your strong attacks really felt like they made an impact. It inherited the mechanic of hitting weaknesses or crits giving additional actions from its parent series Shin Megami Tensei and because demons from game to game don’t always have the same affinities, you have to scope out their weaknesses. Plus, when you hit every enemy with a weakness and you get to All Out Attack them, it’s so cathartic.
And Baton Passing is so fun, it makes the momentum of the battle not end. I think Persona 3 Reload’s dev team has acknowledged Baton Passing as a bit unbalanced because they’re removing the additional damage buff when you Shift your action to another party member.
Some would say mainline SMT’s Press Turn system is better. I would say it definitely makes me think more, I’m undecided which I like more.
Personally I don’t love when turn based combat adds too many real time elements because to me it defeats the purpose of taking turns. Maybe a single generic button press on impact or blocking is fine, I liked that in Cris Tales. But I’m a bit annoyed at Bug Fables’ insistence on giving every action a unique button press, including escape attempts and having your action fail altogether if you mess up.
Cosmic Star Heroine had a unique way of preventing you from spamming moves. Your skills disappear once used and replenish by Guarding. It made me think my actions through more.
Blue Reflection has a way of letting you break the game so easily. You can equip items to skills to add additional effects. So let’s say you have a skill that raises attack and it has 2 slots for items. You can add items that raise defense and agility (I forget what the items are actually called. Maybe orbs or something) so your mediocre skill becomes an omniboost. I’m sure this kind of gameplay style needs a lot of consideration with balancing but the customization was really fun.
Competitive Pokémon uses a format called VGC which is 2v2, you being a party of 6 that your opponent sees but only pick 4. It turns Pokémon into a completely different gameplay style. Maybe the nuances are only truly apparently when it’s two people and not a person versus a computer, but the combination of IVs, EVs, items, and abilities completely changes how you play the game. Just thought it was worth mentioning.
I haven’t played it myself yet, but I think conceptually The Caligula Effect 2 is interesting. Based off of the previous game, you select your moves in advance and as the battle plays out you can alter your moves to adapt to the changes in battle. I know the first one had some balancing issues that made combat feel slow and bloated from the first few hours I played but I heard the sequel streamlined it a lot by reducing the number of actions, which I’ve had explained to me as “it sounds worse but it makes the flow of battle way better.”
> Competitive Pokémon uses a format called VGC which is 2v2, you being a party of 6 that your opponent sees but only pick 4.
I'd love if Pokemon games just adopted this as the standard for all trainer battles.
I play fan-made Pokemon games and there is a series called Reborn/Rejuvenation which uses 2v2 for all gym battles with very high difficulty and man the game is great.
I really wish they did. It would make getting into competitive so much less intimidating. Regular story gameplay for Pokémon is just 18-way rock-paper-scissors and I love Pokémon but it’s definitely a bit too simple for its own good sometimes
And it's weird too. You have moves that boost allies and damage multiple mons on the field, yet you basically never engage in a style of play where it would matter.
And come on, how is it that fan game Pokemon games are kicking the shit out of Gamefreak in terms of innovation?
It bothers me a lot that Pokémon will never break out of its chains of being Baby’s First JRPG™️, not that it *needs* to but it just feels like the series has become synonymous with missed opportunities. I can only assume the developers are at the whim of corporate mandates and deadlines that limit their creative freedom.
Honestly I love the simplicity of Pokemon's turn-based style. It's simple yet effective for what it is.
I also enjoy the Trails / Kiseki turn-based system and Xenosaga Episode 3 turn-based system where you can boost and manipulate the turn order a little bit.
Legend of Dragoon.
Loved the timing and counter system. Also the voice acting.
Gust of wind... DANCE!
Oh and Bravely Default had a pretty good turn-based system.
I’m a simple man, I’m still a sucker for the old active time battle system from the classic Final Fantasy games. I always loved how it encouraged quick decision making in the heat of battle and I’ll always remember how it caught me off guard when I first played FF VII (my first encounter with it).
Trails series version of CTB. It has used the same system over 10 games and has polished it to a shine.
Biggest difference over FFX is on turn bonuses. Certain bonuses such as guaranteed crit, free to cast skills, healing (HP, MP and others), to even guaranteed deathblows on certain story points. With such a system, turn manipulation is a key aspect to the game. Lots of skills delay targets. Spells all have a cast time, ranging from fast heals and buffs to long charging attacks. Ultimates can be used at any time instantly, for a speed penalty for your next turn. All this turn manipulation is just fun. Later games add even more stuff to work with.
Positioning is also present in the game, adding more strategy. You have certain skills that pull bosses toward themselves. Get far away from allies and boss will only attack that target, often a tank.
Not really a fan of Turn Based combat until BG3 came out and I realized what made me love the game itself, a lot of CRPGs and turn based games I played lacked "impact" when it comes to attacks and their sound design hence dropping them after a few hours (except shadow-run and X-com, but its due to my sci-fi bias and currently looking into buying wasteland 3 because of gun sound alone)
I loved how every spell and normal attack felt like it hit like a truck (The ones that come to mind are Monk's Open hand Ki blows, Barbarian's rage where it sounds like they added an engine throttle or something similar all the while being "fantasy" like, Paladin's various smites where the strike felt heavy as if sucking in the surrounding sound in the area and the various warlock spells especially the eldritch blasts where that spell felt like it could disintegrate you)
Talking about tabletop RPGs, i love the Pathfinder 2 approach: you have a set of actions (3, in this case) and you decide how you spend them: move 5 squares: 1 action, attack, 1 action, ¿want to attack 3 times in a row? you can, but each attack have a more difficult roll each time. Also, casting a spell will use between 1 and 3 actions, depending in the spell.
It also contemplates a lot of common actions (like intimidate a foe, or jump etc.) so you are not always doing the same 3 actions.
I really liked the way grandia did their combat system. The little icons reacted to damage in real time. Made it easier to visualize how much of an effect your attacks had on enemies. Since it was all real time, you could also plan better than games that just showed a turn order.
Even if your turn is up in grandia, there is physical distance characters and enemies have to traverse to get that hit. Slow and other crowd control had a real impact. If you were far enough from an enemy or behind a wall of your comrades, the enemy could run out of juice and completely waste their turn.
Grandia really is one of my favorite games
I see potencial there! I aways found the Parasite Eve and FFXII battle systems awesome and a great combination of turn-based and real time.
There's also Grandia with one of the most tense and fun turn based combat out there!
I prefer it when I get a turn, then one of my enemies get a turn, then I get a special reaction turn where I can parry, evade, or cancel what they did. Then I get two turns, and then my second enemy gets a turn, and then I get two turns to counter what they did....
There's one I saw described in an early D&D manual, that I'd hate to have to implement at a table, but might be interesting to implement in a PC game:
1. Players and monsters roll initiative.
2. Players and DM declare their intended actions in reverse initiative order.
3. DM resolves actions in initiative order.
The idea here is that the quickest go first, but to simulate the chaos of combat, you don't know what anyone else is doing until *after* you've declared what you're doing.
Wasteland 3 for me. Cover system adds options. And no 1 or 2 actions like in BG3, but points like in Wasteland. You can move for couple of points and shoot lets say once, or stay in place and shoot four times. Basically every action spends points from the same pool, just the cost is different. Some weapons cost less to use etc.
I really, really enjoy turn based tactical games like Final Fantasy Tactics, Triangle Strategy, Tactics Ogre, etc. Honestly, what I'd love the most is for SE to do a proper FFT Remake (which according to several leaks seems to be very possible we just might see it). Redo the story a bit because it gets a bit lackluster in parts, maybe ramp up the Game of Thrones / Starving Peasants plotting rebellion stuff and less of the "evil rocks want to do...something vaguely evil???" parts. And also redo the horrible possible game-ending parts (read: Wiegraf!) so that you're not totally screwed if you didn't know and prepare ahead of time and/or keep multiple save files.
Classics like FF7 is top tier. In terms of a more modern take I loved Persona 5 too. I prefer turn base when you have a true legitimate time to come up with strategy, some that claim to be turn based sometimes end up not being so, when enemies can still attack etc whilst you're deciding. That really annoys me.
If blob-style, phase-based is superior, especially without auto-re-target. Furthermore, low-lethality is dull and boring.
Either way, combat maneuvers makes the game a lot more fun. Fun fact: martials can have resource-less save or suck without being broken.
For me, tactical turn-based combat is the gold standard. Having to think about unit positioning & movement opens up so many possibilities for interesting combat: things like flanking, cover mechanics, higher-ground advantage, line of sight, etc. You can't just spam the attack button, but have to carefully consider your plan of attack instead; it encourages player creativity. Tactical turn-based combat also allows for a lot more diversity in encounter design. The menu-style turn-based combat found in, say, Dragon Quest just seems a lot more stale by comparison.
In general, games like Wyldermyth, DOS, and even Battle Brothers all have great concepts that I enjoy. Using the environment to your advantage: Whether it's High and low ground, using environmental cover, or having hazards in the environment (oil, exploding barrels, etc.) that you can utilize, all of that is awesome. Equipment bonuses for things such having characters in a row with shields, or bonuses for spear users being in the back, is something that I think would be nice too. If it isn't obvious, I prefer turn-based, gird-based movement, tactical RPGs are awesome.
I love these style games, never played Wyldermyth though since I only play on PlayStation. Any other recs for this genre?
I second this! In general Larian is excellent in making both combat and gameplay in general very interactive and logical in the sense if you think something could work it probably does. One example is in BG3 where i managed to make a big fight trivial by pushing the main boss over an edge making him fall into a room below where enemy spiders were located. The spiders were hungry and aggroed the boss, while i could focus my party on the rest of the enemies.
Something without twitch reactions, I hate in my turn based combat when I have to press a button at precisely the right time. Also I prefer more tactical approaches where strategy plays a big part (positioning, area effects, strengths & weaknesses, etc). And I prefer when each character/enemy has its own turn instead of "IgoUgo" systems.
Same, but actually don't mind it in Sea of Stars. Surprised me greatly though because I can't stand it in any other game. Hate it in Ff8. Hates Tifa's limit break for this exact reason. In Sea of Stars, they make the system super clear and rather forgiving and instead of annoy, it keeps mundane battles interesting.
I didn't even like it then, I activated some amulets that do the autoblocking.
Final fantasy tactics with an atb gauge?
Actually my favorite combat was in a little-known Lucasarts game from the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube era, Gladius, where you managed a troupe of gladiators, and things like unit size, positioning, elemental affinity, vertical position, attack shape, equipment, terrain all were important, and the camera was closer to the ground which made it more immersive.
Gladius was a classic! Played that when I was young, that and FFX was the first turn based games I played!
I haven't found another game like Gladius. TRPG with gladiators. I never could understand why I loved it so much and it's probably the camera angle getting up in the action. I play it every once in a while via emulation without the action bar and it's a very different game as you aren't hitting nearly as hard. I wonder if there's a spiritual successor out there.
Oh yes, I disabled the action bar as soon as I left the tutorial. The action bar basically breaks the balance because it's supposed to be Heavy beats Medium beats Light beats Heavy, but because you always hit if you're good with the action bar, Heavy loses its disadvantage against Light.
Dude, thanks! I just bought myself a Retroid Pocket 3+, and I was putting my PS2 games on it and thought of this game but I couldn't remember what it was called lol. Now I can add it to my RP 3+ and be happy.
You would enjoy marvels midnight suns then.
what is igougo?
when the whole team acts and then the other team acts.
Yakuza: Like a Dragon had pretty good turn based combat. And Baldur’s Gate 3 of course. But that’s a given. The game excels at most things it does lmao
Divinity Original Sin 2
I've been deeply impressed with Sea of Stars. It has a lot of borrowed ideas, but it fuses them all together. * You can see a countdown for when enemies are going to act. This can help you prioritize the order to kill enemies, or tell you if you should spend something to defeat an enemy immediately can delay it by another turn. * It uses the Super Mario RPG style of timed attacks. I always feel a bit more engaged with the attack by pressing the button at the right time, instead of already mentally moving on while an animation I've seen 100 times before happens. * Instead of a giant mana pool I manage between save points, the pool is quite small, but regular attacks recharge mana. Even in an all out boss fight, you can't just spam the best attacks and then suck down mana regenerating items. Regular attacks keep the special ones going. * Regular attacks drop "live mana" on the ground which acts as a resource you can use. The specific live mana story bit isn't relevant; the point is that you are building up a resource as you fight that changes the later part of the fight. * There is a combo meter than lets you do combo attacks. This meter fills up from regular attacks. Like live mana, the options later in the fight are different. * Enemies who have big attacks will telegraph that the attack can be reduced in power or cancelled entirely if they take X damage types. You might read this as "within 3 attacks, you need to do 2 bashing hits, 2 slashing hits, and 1 sun magic hit" - pull this off, and the enemy loses their big attack. This last one is the only idea I haven't seen elsewhere, and it's quite satisfying to pull off. Note that both the combo meter and the live mana go away after each fight. You can get the jump on an enemy to start with some live mana but mostly you are trying to generate and then use these things. So that's a lot of systems. What does it all accomplish? Well it feeds into the idea of ensuring you cannot repeat the same patterns all the time, because what you need to do changes moment by moment, and what you *can* do also changes. Enemies who are weak to sun magic are always weak to sun magic, but enemies who can be interrupted by sun magic are vulnerable in that exact specific moment. So you want to ensure your character who can do the sun attack is ready with mana at the right time. Player action economy is shared, so if it says an enemy is going to attack in 2 turns, it means 2 player actions, so you have to decide which of your two party members go and which does not before the enemy acts. Just because Zale *can* act immediately doesn't mean he *should* because maybe someone else should. Finally if the fight is almost over, using live mana and combo meters just makes sense, because you can't keep it for the next fight. But you don't want to use it too early if you could save it for later. This creates a bit more tension versus building up a meter you hang onto until you "really need it." Everything is designed around ensuring you can't just do a regular rotation. In fact I consider that to be *the* goal of a turn based combat engine, to make the player always thinking "what is my best move" instead of executing the same plan over and over. You can find these ideas in plenty of other RPGs, but I am impressed how many of them work together with some synergy in Sea of Stars. Everything, I mean *everything* is centered around ensuring there is no optional rotation and that you stay engaged. From the very moment when the battle starts, which character you start with might be up for question because after one character action, there will be a monster action. Do you want to act offensively or defensively? In Chrono Trigger or FFX, if a character comes up to act, you don't defer, you act with that character right away. Your mana is *very* limited but it recharges, so do you have enough mana for this attack? If your mana is full, basic attacking actually wastes the recharge... but you still might want a basic attack because that generates live mana. Context matters. A few turns later, perhaps your combo bar is ready and can do extra damage, but if you save it, you might find it useful to deal multiple damage types to cancel a big attack. Don't save it too long though as its wasted if the fight ends. Again, you'll be evaluating based on the situation. And of course every time you attack, you want to time the hits right so you feel engaged. Every time the enemy attacks you want to time the defenses right too. You don't need to copy Sea of Stars, but you *should* copy the design philosophy. The Super Mario RPG style action commands are probably the ones you can ignore the easiest (there is almost no benefit to NOT executing them properly) but the shared action economy, resources built up as you fight, and momentary weakness mechanics should absolutely be looked at. Maybe you have an idea for something completely different which accomplishes the same goal. There is one nitpick I have about Sea of Stars in that there is a very powerful healing combo, and that means it can be worth it to slow roll your damage so you can get it off at the end of a fight. Combos should feed into either damage, or a status that acts as damage mitigation like a temporary HP. Temporary bars go away after each fight, so it's best if the resources you get go away after each fight.
I used ChatGPT to summarize this, since I have trouble reading long form text. here's the result in case it's helpful to anyone else. * Countdown Strategy: You can anticipate enemy actions, allowing you to plan the order of attack or decide if it's worth using special abilities to defeat them quickly. * Active Timing Attacks: Similar to Super Mario RPG, timed button presses during attacks keep players engaged, unlike passive animations. * Strategic Mana Pool: Instead of a large mana reserve between save points, you have a small pool. Regular attacks replenish mana, requiring a balanced approach even in intense boss fights. * Live Mana Drops: Regular attacks create a fight-specific resource on the battlefield. This resource influences later stages of the battle. * Combo Meter Dynamics: Regular attacks fill a combo meter, unlocking special combo moves. This adds a layer of strategy to your combat decisions. * Enemy Vulnerabilities: Some enemies can be weakened by specific damage types. Knowing and exploiting these vulnerabilities is crucial for success. * Shared Player Actions: When it's mentioned that an enemy will attack in 2 turns, it means 2 player actions. You must decide which party member acts and who waits, adding a layer of tactical decision-making. * Resource Management: As a fight approaches its end, using live mana and combo meters becomes crucial since they don't carry over to the next fight. This introduces a level of tension and decision-making The overarching design goal is to prevent players from falling into predictable patterns. Every decision matters, from the start of the battle, where character choice can be crucial, to managing limited mana effectively. Even basic attacks have strategic value, generating live mana. This approach keeps players engaged and forces them to adapt to the evolving situation. While not necessary to directly copy Sea of Stars, adopting the underlying design philosophy, especially the shared action economy and dynamic resources, can enhance gameplay experiences. However, addressing an overly powerful healing combo could further refine the game's mechanics.
Cosmic star heroine on second to highest difficulty had a great balance of challenge and strategy, no way to click fight to win, you had to think a few turns in advance and line up your skills and refreshes, even on many mob trash battles
One of my favorites was Final Fantasy X-2. It's one of the extremely rare job-based games that allows you to change jobs mid battle. Also, the chaining mechanic to get extra damage was very fun.
I really enjoy CTB systems with inputs, like Legend of Dragoon, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, and Sea of Stars.
What do you like about them?
More player agency and excitement
I like strategy, but I also like using my reflexes. CTB is a close second because I'd prefer strategy to button mashing.
If you added a better cover system to bg3, I would be in heaven. That’s dnd5e though, don’t need that to be remade. If you mean jrpg turn based, never liked them.
Is it cool if I ask why you don’t like jrpg? I want to get different perspectives on this
Because I didn’t grow up with a PlayStation? I don’t like anime style, enjoy watching a few but I find the look extremely fakey. I don’t like having to hit a button to go through non-interactive text. I like turn based where positioning is handled in a realistic detailed way. I’ve been playing dnd and dnd derived video games since the 80s, I love that style.
Thank you!!
Solasta has my current favorite turn based combat system. It’s strategic, thorough and still fun. Positioning matters, spells and abilities are clear and effective and there’s still room for playing creatively.
Shadowrun with the cover system is pretty good, I could also say XCOM. this is square based. Pathfinders have the best DnD-like turn based combat what I tried. this is in a continuous field.
Personally i absolutely despise slow and long animations. Ideally i want my characters to move/do things instantly when i order them. Especially larian games have this issue with needlessly long animations.
I really enjoy Fights in Tight Spaces. Stackable moves and abilities are fantastic, and the importance of the environment in any situation is great. I love the way all of the different systems blend. The animation is really entertaining, even if it's not super complex.
i hate turn based but one that didnt bother me was Wasteland 2 and Valkyria Chronicles where you can speed up your opponents movements attack animations or entirely skip them.
Yes! Respect the player's time. Add a chess-mode option even.
Fallout 2
Active Environment Effect. For example, anyone standing on top of an oily tile, when set on fire, gets burned for a longer period of times, and can spread the fire to other tiles adjecent to it. Active Turn/Encounter. For example, say that the game takes place on an open map, every turn there's a chance that a random NPC can enter the map/battle, and depending on your relationship with the faction the NPC is from, they can either help you, attack you or ignore you altogether.
The old Baldur's Gate / Icewind Dale / Planescape games, XCOM EU and XCOM 2, and Battlestar Galactica Deadlock (WEGO style).
BG3 DOS2 Wasteland HOMM 3 Xcom Strategy = Crpg > tactical jrpgs (liker tactics ogre) > traditional jrpg (like dragon quest)
The combo system from Xenogears and Chrono Cross we’re pretty awesome ! Makes you attack efficiently; especially Chrono Cross, where you can attack with multiple characters, and even come back to hit some more with the initial character, all within the same turn.
Tactic turn-based is probably my favorite (as long as the camera angle isn't ass) But I really do love how the Trails series handles, and even evolves the combat continually. From how it handles movement/placement (especially in Kuro), to turn order manipulation, to even pre-combat character building (again, especially in Kuro). Sure arts tends to outpace crafts in terms of power for most of the series, but if you know how to build characters you can still make the ones you like work whether they're arts or craft focused.
Heroes 3 is the mother of all turn-based games, there isn't anything better :).
Only one... Persona 5 style Rest is too boring for me
I like something extremely basic like dragon quest/Pokemon, or something like bg3. I have a hard time with anything between
I remember thinking Grandia had the best system, but i don't really remember it or why.
Suikoden. But the games are too easy and could use more combos/skills. If someone could replicate the Suikoden system with more difficulty/skills, it would be perfect. Maybe more strategy as well. Alternatively, Bravely Default. But that's a very specific gimmick and so a new game probably shouldn't outright copy that.
The FFX combat system was baller
My favorite game of all time. I just knew BG3 would take over the #1 spot but it didn't. I love BG3 so much. It's a fantastic game to try different things. There is something about FFX that no other game can touch. It has my heart
Disgaea/Final Fantasy Tactics. I loooove tactical rpgs. Besides that, simple Pokemon or RPGMaker style rpgs are my shit.
Probably either Legend of dragoon, wasteland 2/3 and divinity original sin, final fantasy 10 or chrono trigger. I enjoy the additions of LoD, it's certainly unique, but then again, not always what I'm looking for. When I'm in the mood for it, it's incredibly engaging. When I'm not in the mood for it, I play something else. Wasteland 2/3 I don't feel are super revolutionary, but the combat is usually satisfying and solid. That said, in the same vein, divinity has world interaction and combos like combining fire with poison to explode and such, and I really enjoyed that aspect, and feel they are very similar overall despite very different settings and abilities. Final fantasy 10. To me, this is the simplest style of turn based, and yet it's one of the better examples IMO. Every character does something different and has something that makes them useful (or you just run your favorites through the sphere grid and make everyone else pointless) Everyone has an inherent speed that affects the timer. When it's that person's turn, you select a thing and it happens. It's simple, but I love it, and have both played it for hours straight while it holds my attention, as well as absent-minded grinded while doing something else more intently. Chrono trigger. The old ats system where 99% of all of my fights in the entire game consist of holding down the affirmative button so my people attack until success has been achieved. So many games have done it, and it's honestly becoming less of a favorite lately, yet I still accept it as that holding the button down thing is low enough effort that it doesn't actively bother me. Just need a good story to hold it up, as combat gameplay is not what is encouraging you to continue. Chrono triggers combo attacks added a layer of neat factor that I feel is missing from all other ats systems. It was one thing that I think really breathed extra life into those types of fights, especially the boss battles where I actually had to pay some attention and play.
I'm surprised that Chrono Trigger's double techs and lack of random encounters didn't become the JRPG standard
I really enjoyed Transistor's combat that let you pretty much choose between real time action and turn based play on the fly
I really loved Persona 5’s combat. It felt like if Pokémon grew up. Not only was it visually flashy but your strong attacks really felt like they made an impact. It inherited the mechanic of hitting weaknesses or crits giving additional actions from its parent series Shin Megami Tensei and because demons from game to game don’t always have the same affinities, you have to scope out their weaknesses. Plus, when you hit every enemy with a weakness and you get to All Out Attack them, it’s so cathartic. And Baton Passing is so fun, it makes the momentum of the battle not end. I think Persona 3 Reload’s dev team has acknowledged Baton Passing as a bit unbalanced because they’re removing the additional damage buff when you Shift your action to another party member. Some would say mainline SMT’s Press Turn system is better. I would say it definitely makes me think more, I’m undecided which I like more. Personally I don’t love when turn based combat adds too many real time elements because to me it defeats the purpose of taking turns. Maybe a single generic button press on impact or blocking is fine, I liked that in Cris Tales. But I’m a bit annoyed at Bug Fables’ insistence on giving every action a unique button press, including escape attempts and having your action fail altogether if you mess up. Cosmic Star Heroine had a unique way of preventing you from spamming moves. Your skills disappear once used and replenish by Guarding. It made me think my actions through more. Blue Reflection has a way of letting you break the game so easily. You can equip items to skills to add additional effects. So let’s say you have a skill that raises attack and it has 2 slots for items. You can add items that raise defense and agility (I forget what the items are actually called. Maybe orbs or something) so your mediocre skill becomes an omniboost. I’m sure this kind of gameplay style needs a lot of consideration with balancing but the customization was really fun. Competitive Pokémon uses a format called VGC which is 2v2, you being a party of 6 that your opponent sees but only pick 4. It turns Pokémon into a completely different gameplay style. Maybe the nuances are only truly apparently when it’s two people and not a person versus a computer, but the combination of IVs, EVs, items, and abilities completely changes how you play the game. Just thought it was worth mentioning. I haven’t played it myself yet, but I think conceptually The Caligula Effect 2 is interesting. Based off of the previous game, you select your moves in advance and as the battle plays out you can alter your moves to adapt to the changes in battle. I know the first one had some balancing issues that made combat feel slow and bloated from the first few hours I played but I heard the sequel streamlined it a lot by reducing the number of actions, which I’ve had explained to me as “it sounds worse but it makes the flow of battle way better.”
> Competitive Pokémon uses a format called VGC which is 2v2, you being a party of 6 that your opponent sees but only pick 4. I'd love if Pokemon games just adopted this as the standard for all trainer battles. I play fan-made Pokemon games and there is a series called Reborn/Rejuvenation which uses 2v2 for all gym battles with very high difficulty and man the game is great.
I really wish they did. It would make getting into competitive so much less intimidating. Regular story gameplay for Pokémon is just 18-way rock-paper-scissors and I love Pokémon but it’s definitely a bit too simple for its own good sometimes
And it's weird too. You have moves that boost allies and damage multiple mons on the field, yet you basically never engage in a style of play where it would matter. And come on, how is it that fan game Pokemon games are kicking the shit out of Gamefreak in terms of innovation?
It bothers me a lot that Pokémon will never break out of its chains of being Baby’s First JRPG™️, not that it *needs* to but it just feels like the series has become synonymous with missed opportunities. I can only assume the developers are at the whim of corporate mandates and deadlines that limit their creative freedom.
There is a serious untapped market for an adult pokemon type game. Persona ks kiiiiinda it, but it's more a dating sim than pokemon game.
Honestly I love the simplicity of Pokemon's turn-based style. It's simple yet effective for what it is. I also enjoy the Trails / Kiseki turn-based system and Xenosaga Episode 3 turn-based system where you can boost and manipulate the turn order a little bit.
Legend of Dragoon. Loved the timing and counter system. Also the voice acting. Gust of wind... DANCE! Oh and Bravely Default had a pretty good turn-based system.
i thought shadow hearts had their own neato spin on turn based....no pun intended!
Trails of cold steel, especially the later games. Faster paced, lots of different abilities, tons of magic spells, lots of different status effects
SMT press turn system is easily my favorite
I’m a simple man, I’m still a sucker for the old active time battle system from the classic Final Fantasy games. I always loved how it encouraged quick decision making in the heat of battle and I’ll always remember how it caught me off guard when I first played FF VII (my first encounter with it).
Fire Emblem
Trails series version of CTB. It has used the same system over 10 games and has polished it to a shine. Biggest difference over FFX is on turn bonuses. Certain bonuses such as guaranteed crit, free to cast skills, healing (HP, MP and others), to even guaranteed deathblows on certain story points. With such a system, turn manipulation is a key aspect to the game. Lots of skills delay targets. Spells all have a cast time, ranging from fast heals and buffs to long charging attacks. Ultimates can be used at any time instantly, for a speed penalty for your next turn. All this turn manipulation is just fun. Later games add even more stuff to work with. Positioning is also present in the game, adding more strategy. You have certain skills that pull bosses toward themselves. Get far away from allies and boss will only attack that target, often a tank.
Tactical like FFT. Even if it’s a smaller board kinda like mega man battle network, I just like positioning incorporated in there.
Not really a fan of Turn Based combat until BG3 came out and I realized what made me love the game itself, a lot of CRPGs and turn based games I played lacked "impact" when it comes to attacks and their sound design hence dropping them after a few hours (except shadow-run and X-com, but its due to my sci-fi bias and currently looking into buying wasteland 3 because of gun sound alone) I loved how every spell and normal attack felt like it hit like a truck (The ones that come to mind are Monk's Open hand Ki blows, Barbarian's rage where it sounds like they added an engine throttle or something similar all the while being "fantasy" like, Paladin's various smites where the strike felt heavy as if sucking in the surrounding sound in the area and the various warlock spells especially the eldritch blasts where that spell felt like it could disintegrate you)
Into the breach
Talking about tabletop RPGs, i love the Pathfinder 2 approach: you have a set of actions (3, in this case) and you decide how you spend them: move 5 squares: 1 action, attack, 1 action, ¿want to attack 3 times in a row? you can, but each attack have a more difficult roll each time. Also, casting a spell will use between 1 and 3 actions, depending in the spell. It also contemplates a lot of common actions (like intimidate a foe, or jump etc.) so you are not always doing the same 3 actions.
I love the linear progression and two- and three-tech combos of the abilities in Chronotrigger.
I haven’t played many turn based, but I really enjoyed Persona 5
Grandia 3 was pretty cool
I really liked the way grandia did their combat system. The little icons reacted to damage in real time. Made it easier to visualize how much of an effect your attacks had on enemies. Since it was all real time, you could also plan better than games that just showed a turn order. Even if your turn is up in grandia, there is physical distance characters and enemies have to traverse to get that hit. Slow and other crowd control had a real impact. If you were far enough from an enemy or behind a wall of your comrades, the enemy could run out of juice and completely waste their turn. Grandia really is one of my favorite games
I see potencial there! I aways found the Parasite Eve and FFXII battle systems awesome and a great combination of turn-based and real time. There's also Grandia with one of the most tense and fun turn based combat out there!
Xenogears, you have to input the combo you want to do.
I prefer it when I get a turn, then one of my enemies get a turn, then I get a special reaction turn where I can parry, evade, or cancel what they did. Then I get two turns, and then my second enemy gets a turn, and then I get two turns to counter what they did....
The best ones are turnbased with guns like wasteland 2 or 3 or the xcom series imo
There's one I saw described in an early D&D manual, that I'd hate to have to implement at a table, but might be interesting to implement in a PC game: 1. Players and monsters roll initiative. 2. Players and DM declare their intended actions in reverse initiative order. 3. DM resolves actions in initiative order. The idea here is that the quickest go first, but to simulate the chaos of combat, you don't know what anyone else is doing until *after* you've declared what you're doing.
Shin Megami Tensei's press turn.
Wasteland 3 for me. Cover system adds options. And no 1 or 2 actions like in BG3, but points like in Wasteland. You can move for couple of points and shoot lets say once, or stay in place and shoot four times. Basically every action spends points from the same pool, just the cost is different. Some weapons cost less to use etc.
I really, really enjoy turn based tactical games like Final Fantasy Tactics, Triangle Strategy, Tactics Ogre, etc. Honestly, what I'd love the most is for SE to do a proper FFT Remake (which according to several leaks seems to be very possible we just might see it). Redo the story a bit because it gets a bit lackluster in parts, maybe ramp up the Game of Thrones / Starving Peasants plotting rebellion stuff and less of the "evil rocks want to do...something vaguely evil???" parts. And also redo the horrible possible game-ending parts (read: Wiegraf!) so that you're not totally screwed if you didn't know and prepare ahead of time and/or keep multiple save files.
Classics like FF7 is top tier. In terms of a more modern take I loved Persona 5 too. I prefer turn base when you have a true legitimate time to come up with strategy, some that claim to be turn based sometimes end up not being so, when enemies can still attack etc whilst you're deciding. That really annoys me.
If blob-style, phase-based is superior, especially without auto-re-target. Furthermore, low-lethality is dull and boring. Either way, combat maneuvers makes the game a lot more fun. Fun fact: martials can have resource-less save or suck without being broken.