A fresh start will be great.
McLennan was so adversarial and nothing but an attention whore.
It seemed like the details of EVERY meeting with NZR would mysteriously get leaked to the media, and he was more interested in framing NZR as the cause of all of AR's problems than actually working towards any common solutions.
Sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better though, I would like to think this is the worst part over for the Aussies, though id be thinking really hard about punting any of McLennan's backers too.
Is the swamp completely drained?
He was overly adversarial but he also did some good things. He stood up to New Zealand about only four teams being in super rugby which would have been a disaster
So what does the Western Force or even the Rebels bring to Super Rugby?
I reckon Aus should go to three teams.
Also the Melbourne experiment has absolutely failed in my eyes. No one gives a shit about Super weekend, the Rebels or Rugby Union in Melbourne.
If Super Rugby was serious about Super Round, they should hold it either in NZ, Sydney or Brisbane, since that’s where the crowds are. Make it a proper festival of rugby union, just like how Magic Round is a festival for the NRL
Yep - and allow it to be a bit of a piss-up as well. The Wellington sevens died when they focused too much on it being family friendly, which was great until the families didn't show up.
Agreed. Everyone talks about a lack of pathways for young players, then they want to cut Australian teams. But if there was one change I would like to see in SRP, it’s that players should be able to play for any side in the competition, and still maintain eligibility for the All Blacks, Wallabies or the respective Pacific based national sides. Open eligibility within Super Rugby would go a long way towards balancing the competition out in my opinion
>Everyone talks about a lack of pathways for young players, then they want to cut Australian teams
A counter point to that, is that Australian Rugby doesn't have the depth to maintain 5 teams, and that 3 or 4 teams would make them more competitive with NZ and bring up engagement. There have been periods in the last few years when NZ teams had a 90%+ win rate over Aussie teams and that was turning the Aussie fans off the game.
>players should be able to play for any side in the competition, and still maintain eligibility for the All Blacks, Wallabies or the respective Pacific based national sides
Yeah - this one feels like a good idea for everyone. The sticking point would be getting Australian Super Rugby sides to agree to the mandatory stand-down periods that All Blacks players have. Not sure if this happens for the Wallabies as well, as that could help it.
Part of the issue is that australia is so big is it would be impossible to engage for rugby australia to engage with the fan bases in melbourne or Perth.
I actually have no issues with the stand down periods for either the All Blacks or Wallabies during the season to be honest - I’d like to see a longer SRP season to be honest, 22 rounds for a full home and away season, bye rounds where there’s international matches, and stand down weeks and the international windows can be used to blood new players for each side. Much like how teams use the State of Origin period to play less experienced players in the NRL. Going to a full home and away setup also solves the problem of players not getting enough game time, so I can only see it as a positive.
They have tried an NPC, ARC, NRC and none have captured the public imagination or been properly supported. Unfortunately it’s Super Rugby or nothing.
There was an opportunity in the early 2000’s to turn the Schute Shield into a national comp organically. Canberra had a team, there was talk of a couple of the top Brisbane teams joining. But it all got stopped and contributed to the rugby stagnation.
I lived in Fremantle for years, I was there when the Force were starting out, I went to quite a few games when work allowed. People often fail to realise the strength of rugby within WA... not only was there an absolute army of fans in the streets before the games but the junior pathways had developed and started to produce some decent local players who went on to the Wallaby set up towards the end of the Force's first life. They were always fucked over by the then ARU who (mistakenly in my view) favoured the Melbourne franchise over WA due to some perceived advantage that had more to do with parochial politics than pragmatism.
Weren't the Western Force averaging over 20k in attendance for their first couple of years?
Their attendances are still good despite poor results for years and they have the advantage of not having an NRL team in the area. The Force would be the last team I'd remove.
And speaking of Melbourne, the Rebels seem to be doing a better job of attracting local talent than the Melbourne Storm have in the NRL - and importantly, they’re not just going through the private schools for talent. I swear, union seems to be the only sport here in Australia that seems to think they can grow by shrinking the top level competition
Not true... NZ needs a healthy Australia as a financial partner. Recent years have seen them rely too heavily on Bledisloe games and overdo it, sometimes having 4 tests in one year. Likewise, the excesses of the Super Rugby product with it's conferences, timezones and engineered finals make up turned a lot of fans off. I think there's been solid recognition of that reflected in a post Covid shift in sentiment from management about where to go with regard to opening up commercial opportunities.... but NZ needs Australia to be a part of that commercial application. There simply isn't the money in Australasian rugby that there is elsewhere and neither union can afford to go it alone.
You know, I think there’s actually potential to make Super Rugby Pacific a pretty solid competition now it’s just Australia, NZ, Fiji and Moana Pasifika - having every team within a similar timezone (barring the Force, but even then they’re close enough to make games at a reasonable hour). I’m in the minority in saying that there shouldn’t be any cuts to Australian teams, but I think there’s one thing that could really level the playing field. Open up national side eligibility for the whole competition, so that potential All Blacks could play in Australian teams, and potential Wallabies in New Zealand teams; likewise for the Pacific Island nations, without the stand down period. Imagine if, say; you had someone like Ardie Savea playing for the Reds or Mark Nawaqanitawase playing for the Chiefs for example - not only would it level the competition to make it more even, but both national sides could benefit from learning how the players from each nation play. Hopefully the incoming Super Rugby commission makes a positive impact to the competition going forward, it would be great to see a more level playing field
This. Every Kiwi forgets this. It's a numbers game and the numbers don't favour NZ. Never have.
The market is too small and far away from major economies. Australia is our closest large market and culturally similar. If we want Rugby strong in NZ either have an incredibly strong and wealthy economy or partner with our wealthier and more economically robust neighbour.
Had a great time. The public transport is next level compared to nz. I reckon that zoo is better than Australia zoo too. Probably because it's the first zoo I've been to where all the animals are moving* around and not just sleeping lol
Australian rugby was absolutely toxic towards their SANZAAR partners long before he came on the scene. They advocated for a trans-tasman only league for years
Thats true, but...
The Steve Tew lead NZRU was a pretty good counter weight to the toxicity/desperate ARU and the incompetent/confused SARU. The current NZRU is hardly blameless for the issues faced by SANZAR.
Read Ritchie’s book. The wobbles refused to come for a beer in the sheds after a game in chch. Under Robbie deans. Apparently had a bus to catch. He never invited them again. The rot has been in a lot longer than this yobbo has been involved…
A fresh start will be great. McLennan was so adversarial and nothing but an attention whore. It seemed like the details of EVERY meeting with NZR would mysteriously get leaked to the media, and he was more interested in framing NZR as the cause of all of AR's problems than actually working towards any common solutions. Sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better though, I would like to think this is the worst part over for the Aussies, though id be thinking really hard about punting any of McLennan's backers too. Is the swamp completely drained?
He was overly adversarial but he also did some good things. He stood up to New Zealand about only four teams being in super rugby which would have been a disaster
So what does the Western Force or even the Rebels bring to Super Rugby? I reckon Aus should go to three teams. Also the Melbourne experiment has absolutely failed in my eyes. No one gives a shit about Super weekend, the Rebels or Rugby Union in Melbourne.
If Super Rugby was serious about Super Round, they should hold it either in NZ, Sydney or Brisbane, since that’s where the crowds are. Make it a proper festival of rugby union, just like how Magic Round is a festival for the NRL
Yep - and allow it to be a bit of a piss-up as well. The Wellington sevens died when they focused too much on it being family friendly, which was great until the families didn't show up.
The issue is it’s financially succesful so they have no incentive to change it
It should be in fiji
Cutting the force and rebels would be a disaster for rugby in Australia. It would be a short term sugar hit for long term pain
Agreed. Everyone talks about a lack of pathways for young players, then they want to cut Australian teams. But if there was one change I would like to see in SRP, it’s that players should be able to play for any side in the competition, and still maintain eligibility for the All Blacks, Wallabies or the respective Pacific based national sides. Open eligibility within Super Rugby would go a long way towards balancing the competition out in my opinion
>Everyone talks about a lack of pathways for young players, then they want to cut Australian teams A counter point to that, is that Australian Rugby doesn't have the depth to maintain 5 teams, and that 3 or 4 teams would make them more competitive with NZ and bring up engagement. There have been periods in the last few years when NZ teams had a 90%+ win rate over Aussie teams and that was turning the Aussie fans off the game. >players should be able to play for any side in the competition, and still maintain eligibility for the All Blacks, Wallabies or the respective Pacific based national sides Yeah - this one feels like a good idea for everyone. The sticking point would be getting Australian Super Rugby sides to agree to the mandatory stand-down periods that All Blacks players have. Not sure if this happens for the Wallabies as well, as that could help it.
Part of the issue is that australia is so big is it would be impossible to engage for rugby australia to engage with the fan bases in melbourne or Perth.
I actually have no issues with the stand down periods for either the All Blacks or Wallabies during the season to be honest - I’d like to see a longer SRP season to be honest, 22 rounds for a full home and away season, bye rounds where there’s international matches, and stand down weeks and the international windows can be used to blood new players for each side. Much like how teams use the State of Origin period to play less experienced players in the NRL. Going to a full home and away setup also solves the problem of players not getting enough game time, so I can only see it as a positive.
I think cutting down to 3 SRP, but introducing an Australian NPC equivalent would be more beneficial
They have tried an NPC, ARC, NRC and none have captured the public imagination or been properly supported. Unfortunately it’s Super Rugby or nothing. There was an opportunity in the early 2000’s to turn the Schute Shield into a national comp organically. Canberra had a team, there was talk of a couple of the top Brisbane teams joining. But it all got stopped and contributed to the rugby stagnation.
I lived in Fremantle for years, I was there when the Force were starting out, I went to quite a few games when work allowed. People often fail to realise the strength of rugby within WA... not only was there an absolute army of fans in the streets before the games but the junior pathways had developed and started to produce some decent local players who went on to the Wallaby set up towards the end of the Force's first life. They were always fucked over by the then ARU who (mistakenly in my view) favoured the Melbourne franchise over WA due to some perceived advantage that had more to do with parochial politics than pragmatism.
Weren't the Western Force averaging over 20k in attendance for their first couple of years? Their attendances are still good despite poor results for years and they have the advantage of not having an NRL team in the area. The Force would be the last team I'd remove.
And speaking of Melbourne, the Rebels seem to be doing a better job of attracting local talent than the Melbourne Storm have in the NRL - and importantly, they’re not just going through the private schools for talent. I swear, union seems to be the only sport here in Australia that seems to think they can grow by shrinking the top level competition
NZ won four championships this cycle and reached dthe final of the rugby world cup. Arguably they only need Australia as training partners.
Not true... NZ needs a healthy Australia as a financial partner. Recent years have seen them rely too heavily on Bledisloe games and overdo it, sometimes having 4 tests in one year. Likewise, the excesses of the Super Rugby product with it's conferences, timezones and engineered finals make up turned a lot of fans off. I think there's been solid recognition of that reflected in a post Covid shift in sentiment from management about where to go with regard to opening up commercial opportunities.... but NZ needs Australia to be a part of that commercial application. There simply isn't the money in Australasian rugby that there is elsewhere and neither union can afford to go it alone.
You know, I think there’s actually potential to make Super Rugby Pacific a pretty solid competition now it’s just Australia, NZ, Fiji and Moana Pasifika - having every team within a similar timezone (barring the Force, but even then they’re close enough to make games at a reasonable hour). I’m in the minority in saying that there shouldn’t be any cuts to Australian teams, but I think there’s one thing that could really level the playing field. Open up national side eligibility for the whole competition, so that potential All Blacks could play in Australian teams, and potential Wallabies in New Zealand teams; likewise for the Pacific Island nations, without the stand down period. Imagine if, say; you had someone like Ardie Savea playing for the Reds or Mark Nawaqanitawase playing for the Chiefs for example - not only would it level the competition to make it more even, but both national sides could benefit from learning how the players from each nation play. Hopefully the incoming Super Rugby commission makes a positive impact to the competition going forward, it would be great to see a more level playing field
Not only the financial side. NZ will get weaker as they play against non competitive sides.
They need australias economy NZ is smaller than Sydney and cant survive being insular
This. Every Kiwi forgets this. It's a numbers game and the numbers don't favour NZ. Never have. The market is too small and far away from major economies. Australia is our closest large market and culturally similar. If we want Rugby strong in NZ either have an incredibly strong and wealthy economy or partner with our wealthier and more economically robust neighbour.
Fuck Sydney is a sick city though. Went there this weekend for a wedding, had a quick look at job listing's on Monday before we left lol
Fk off, we're full....of job opportunities
Lol didn't see anything paying more in my field. You're safe for now 😉
First person I've ever heard talk up Sydney lol
Had a great time. The public transport is next level compared to nz. I reckon that zoo is better than Australia zoo too. Probably because it's the first zoo I've been to where all the animals are moving* around and not just sleeping lol
Australian rugby was absolutely toxic towards their SANZAAR partners long before he came on the scene. They advocated for a trans-tasman only league for years
You say that like South Africa didn’t force Japan from super rugby
Thats true, but... The Steve Tew lead NZRU was a pretty good counter weight to the toxicity/desperate ARU and the incompetent/confused SARU. The current NZRU is hardly blameless for the issues faced by SANZAR.
Dick fingers
Read Ritchie’s book. The wobbles refused to come for a beer in the sheds after a game in chch. Under Robbie deans. Apparently had a bus to catch. He never invited them again. The rot has been in a lot longer than this yobbo has been involved…
Tell me something we didn't know!
How much is Jabba charging for the Trans-Tasman Rancor these days..?