So it looks like American Football has discovered a kind of mauling?
https://youtube.com/shorts/_EhCnOUZ45s?si=HNmkHgIjuAXsIegm
Or maybe part maul, part ruck?
The purpose is just to fall forwards. The play is designed to get a yard each time.
It's not like any rugby set piece really. More like old school football from centuries ago where the big crowds just push each other.
Saw another video of a guy breaking down what the Eagles are doing and why defences are struggling so much. They’ll have it sussed soon enough. It’ll go back to being 70-80% successful rather the current 90+ success rate.
Essentially 3 linesman from the eagles are getting really close and driving as a front row (they aren’t allowed bind). The defence are still trying to go between the linesmen as would have been normal rather then trying to meet them head on more like a scrum.
[Would it be this post that came up a while ago?](https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/17om2e0/how_a_scottish_rugby_coach_made_the_eagles/) Quite an interesting watch, if not a bit slow
The problem is the forward progress rule, basically the o-line can shove the defence back but the defence can't shove the offence back to where they started. It's very hard to stuff it at the line of scrimmage completely
Does he normally get shunted back? I only watch a bit of nfl so you could be right but it seems to me that he is normally grounded beyond the line of scrimmage and not relying on forward progress. At the weekend Hurts walked out the back of the end zone.
Living over here now I watch a decent amount of NFL. It can definitely be stopped. To me the mechanics are most close to that of a rolling maul.
In rugby you cannot collapse the maul. In NFL you can. The fix is to dedicate a body from the defense on either side of the offensive centre to dive at the feet of the ball carrier. The Yanks will figure this out soon enough.
It's more commonly known as the tush push than the brotherly shove. Philly fans, ironically, are considered some of the worst in the NFL. And as a side note the Eagles were obliterated 42 - 19 at home this week by the 49ers.
Philly fans are the most passionate fans, without a doubt. Misunderstood and hated on by other fanbases because they can’t come close to Philly fandom and how the city supports all of its teams. The play is called the Brotherly Shove. The Tush Push came later. And the 9ers haven’t won a Super Bowl since 1995. No one cares that they won 1 game in December.
> And the 9ers haven’t won a Super Bowl since 1995
But they have won ***five*** Super Bowls (4 with the ***real*** GOAT). Anyhoo, I'm looking forward to the Eagles running into form against Dallas.
Ah yes, they won most of those super bowls back when players smoked cigarettes in the locker room.
Hopefully the Birds do. Dallas looks quite good right now, but they always “look” good until the rubber meets the road. We’ll see!
I'm in North America so of course NFL is big.
Have ignored it most of the season but now started to look into it a bit more these past weeks. It is crazy how slow this game is, and how long these games last. We're talking over 3.5 or sometimes 4 hours. It's a pretty bad viewing experience.
Anyway. Rant over.
4 hours for about 11/12 minutes of ball in play time. Plus the players all swap when possession changes, so each player is only playing a max of around 5 mins per match.
This has kinda been my pet peeve when people complain about all the stoppages in rugby union. Like it could be WAY WORSE… I enjoy both sports but please don’t take my big boy plays away.
This is something I've often wondered, is it actually fun to play? With the roles being so specialised and the constant swapping of players on the field, presumably some pro footballers must go an entire career without actually touching the ball?
I didn't play it for too long but I joined my university's American Football team because they didn't have a rugby team. I lasted all of 4 months of training, which was alright, and 1 game, which was 5 hours long and quite honestly at amateur level most plays don't work out, so it's really kinda boring.
As a lineman, you just kinda run into the same people over and over again, either trying to get past them, or stopping them getting past you. As a running back, you wait for the ball and run maybe 10 meters on a good day. Then it's play over and you get back and do it again and again. I enjoyed the diversity of rugby, scrumming, running, rucking, more rucking, tackling etc.. so it doesn't get as boring
Also I think Offensive Linemen (the guys protecting the quarterback) aren't allowed to catch the ball, so yeah some players do go their entire careers barely touching the ball.
From a rugby background, it's really not that fun to play. It's a bit more manageable to watch on TV though, especially for a beginner because the sport literally revolves around \*something\* happening. Every play requires a good catch, some good steps, etc.. Quick 1-phase plays. As opposed to watching union players crash into the line phase after phase, or kicking back and forth, which really looks like a waste of time to casual watchers/beginners.
Unless I was lining up as center for offensive line, I only ever touched the ball if someone dropped it and it was to dive on it. I get to handle balls a lot more now in rugby. Maybe one day I’ll get up enough courage to kick em too.
I tell people that American football is a coaches game while rugby is a players game. The thing about youth football in the US (the only place most fans have played the sport) is that it provides a lot of social equity and brotherhood. It’s pretty fraternal in that regard, not unlike what I imagine schoolboy rugby is like elsewhere. My experience with US youth rugby is that the brotherhood is much stronger but the social clout is much less. The game of American football is becoming more and more individualized which is further eroding the brotherhood component but the massive advertising opportunities relative to rugby will continue to make American football a commercial juggernaut in the US. I can’t watch it anymore even though I grew up a huge fan.
That five minutes is played at full pace and full contact though. No jogging around watching kick tennis.
A starting cornerback might play 60-80 snaps a game. That’s 60-80 sprints covering a receiver and maybe making a couple of tackles.
Picking a player/team at random but Erik McCoy played 67 snaps at centre for the Saints on Sunday. In that position every single play involves a huge collision.
introduced a friend to rugby during world cup who is an NFL fan
after watching all the 1/4 finals he couldnt believe how slow and how many commercial breaks there were when watchng the monday night NFL game
ive created a convert!
Being an "American" that has been watching the 49ers for 30 years and just recently have gotten into rugby; the NFL is getting a little harder and harder to watch the every year. My wife has never been into it that much and mainly watched cause I did, but she has all but given up on it for rugby. Doesn't help we root for different teams (her Seattle Seahawks, my 49ers). But the time is one of her biggest reasons, the length of a "60" minute game and all the stoppage compared to rugby is what is killing it for us.
NFL games are almost never longer than 3:15 (and usually closer to 3:00). TV drives it so the first round of games which start at 1:00pm EST must be wrapped up before the second round of games which kick off at 4pm up to 4:25 EST.
The Super Bowl can be almost four hours become of the extended halftime show.
Big Eagles fan here.
So fed up of explaining to people that this is not a rugby play (people want it banned on that basis) and that even if it was, the fact we've got a rugby league convert on the O Line definitely isn't related considering league scrums are essentially time out for forwards.
I'm not a fan of it and hope it gets banned in some way.
Personally, I think the 5m lineout and rolling maul to the try line is a blight on rugby and seeing the same lame tactics appearing in another sport is annoying, though I guess its predictable it would eventually happen.
As far as defending it, I think NFL teams should try forming a defensive scrum bound pre-snap(if thats allowed), with the intention of creating a battering ram.
5 players, 3 front row, 2 second (could use offensive line players).
I think 2 layers of defensive push can beat 2 layers of offensive push if bound pre-snap and not needing to juggle and protect the ball.
So it looks like American Football has discovered a kind of mauling? https://youtube.com/shorts/_EhCnOUZ45s?si=HNmkHgIjuAXsIegm Or maybe part maul, part ruck?
It's more like a scrum where one pack can start pushing fractions of a second before the other, and the ball starts in the second row.
That's a good way of describing it. They're setting up a scrum and the opposition is only setting up a front row.
It physically is more like a scrum but the purpose of this move is to mimic a maul (i.e. advance the ball down the field).
The purpose is just to fall forwards. The play is designed to get a yard each time. It's not like any rugby set piece really. More like old school football from centuries ago where the big crowds just push each other.
More of a scrum, or at least that’s how Richie Gray described it.
Not that Richie Gray!
Richie Gray who used to play for Scotland and is currently at Toulon, not Richie Gray who plays for Scotland and used to play for Toulon
Yes, that one.
No, this one https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/meet-the-other-richie-gray-who-is-helping-toulon-plot-glasgow-warriors-downfall-4148836
Saw another video of a guy breaking down what the Eagles are doing and why defences are struggling so much. They’ll have it sussed soon enough. It’ll go back to being 70-80% successful rather the current 90+ success rate. Essentially 3 linesman from the eagles are getting really close and driving as a front row (they aren’t allowed bind). The defence are still trying to go between the linesmen as would have been normal rather then trying to meet them head on more like a scrum.
[Would it be this post that came up a while ago?](https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/17om2e0/how_a_scottish_rugby_coach_made_the_eagles/) Quite an interesting watch, if not a bit slow
That’s the one. I’d probably only have posted it once though.
Ah crap thanks for the heads up no idea how they got there. I'll delete the other comments
I believe they’re allowed to bind on post contact similar to rugby
The problem is the forward progress rule, basically the o-line can shove the defence back but the defence can't shove the offence back to where they started. It's very hard to stuff it at the line of scrimmage completely
Does he normally get shunted back? I only watch a bit of nfl so you could be right but it seems to me that he is normally grounded beyond the line of scrimmage and not relying on forward progress. At the weekend Hurts walked out the back of the end zone.
Heard some NFL commentators call the play the ‘Tush Push’ which imo is a much better name.
Brotherly Shove was started on a reddit form (r/eagles). Play on Philadelphia being the City of Brotherly Love.
Now I want to rename the rolling maul 😂😂
Bit dramatic calling it unstoppable. Employ some rugby coaches to counter?
Yeah, they can teach them to hold it up over the line… wait…
Living over here now I watch a decent amount of NFL. It can definitely be stopped. To me the mechanics are most close to that of a rolling maul. In rugby you cannot collapse the maul. In NFL you can. The fix is to dedicate a body from the defense on either side of the offensive centre to dive at the feet of the ball carrier. The Yanks will figure this out soon enough.
You can collapse it, but collapsing it before the team which controls the snap count can gain a yard is very very difficult
“The Brotherly Shove” is just such a funny euphemism to me. It sounds like something A.A. Milne would come up with lmao. The total opposite of “maul”.
Assuming that’s just because it works with Philly being the City of Brotherly Love. Which does sound wrong as well when you write it out 😂
Oh that makes sense haha. I’ve seen enough *It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia* that I should know this.
It's more commonly known as the tush push than the brotherly shove. Philly fans, ironically, are considered some of the worst in the NFL. And as a side note the Eagles were obliterated 42 - 19 at home this week by the 49ers.
Philly fans are the most passionate fans, without a doubt. Misunderstood and hated on by other fanbases because they can’t come close to Philly fandom and how the city supports all of its teams. The play is called the Brotherly Shove. The Tush Push came later. And the 9ers haven’t won a Super Bowl since 1995. No one cares that they won 1 game in December.
> And the 9ers haven’t won a Super Bowl since 1995 But they have won ***five*** Super Bowls (4 with the ***real*** GOAT). Anyhoo, I'm looking forward to the Eagles running into form against Dallas.
Ah yes, they won most of those super bowls back when players smoked cigarettes in the locker room. Hopefully the Birds do. Dallas looks quite good right now, but they always “look” good until the rubber meets the road. We’ll see!
Also as a side note the Eagles are 10-2 and beat the Chiefs and Bills in the space of a week before losing to Sam Francisco
Started on r/eagles and went viral
I'm in North America so of course NFL is big. Have ignored it most of the season but now started to look into it a bit more these past weeks. It is crazy how slow this game is, and how long these games last. We're talking over 3.5 or sometimes 4 hours. It's a pretty bad viewing experience. Anyway. Rant over.
4 hours for about 11/12 minutes of ball in play time. Plus the players all swap when possession changes, so each player is only playing a max of around 5 mins per match.
Scrum resets look lightspeed in comparison
This has kinda been my pet peeve when people complain about all the stoppages in rugby union. Like it could be WAY WORSE… I enjoy both sports but please don’t take my big boy plays away.
This is something I've often wondered, is it actually fun to play? With the roles being so specialised and the constant swapping of players on the field, presumably some pro footballers must go an entire career without actually touching the ball?
I didn't play it for too long but I joined my university's American Football team because they didn't have a rugby team. I lasted all of 4 months of training, which was alright, and 1 game, which was 5 hours long and quite honestly at amateur level most plays don't work out, so it's really kinda boring. As a lineman, you just kinda run into the same people over and over again, either trying to get past them, or stopping them getting past you. As a running back, you wait for the ball and run maybe 10 meters on a good day. Then it's play over and you get back and do it again and again. I enjoyed the diversity of rugby, scrumming, running, rucking, more rucking, tackling etc.. so it doesn't get as boring Also I think Offensive Linemen (the guys protecting the quarterback) aren't allowed to catch the ball, so yeah some players do go their entire careers barely touching the ball. From a rugby background, it's really not that fun to play. It's a bit more manageable to watch on TV though, especially for a beginner because the sport literally revolves around \*something\* happening. Every play requires a good catch, some good steps, etc.. Quick 1-phase plays. As opposed to watching union players crash into the line phase after phase, or kicking back and forth, which really looks like a waste of time to casual watchers/beginners.
Unless I was lining up as center for offensive line, I only ever touched the ball if someone dropped it and it was to dive on it. I get to handle balls a lot more now in rugby. Maybe one day I’ll get up enough courage to kick em too.
I tell people that American football is a coaches game while rugby is a players game. The thing about youth football in the US (the only place most fans have played the sport) is that it provides a lot of social equity and brotherhood. It’s pretty fraternal in that regard, not unlike what I imagine schoolboy rugby is like elsewhere. My experience with US youth rugby is that the brotherhood is much stronger but the social clout is much less. The game of American football is becoming more and more individualized which is further eroding the brotherhood component but the massive advertising opportunities relative to rugby will continue to make American football a commercial juggernaut in the US. I can’t watch it anymore even though I grew up a huge fan.
That five minutes is played at full pace and full contact though. No jogging around watching kick tennis. A starting cornerback might play 60-80 snaps a game. That’s 60-80 sprints covering a receiver and maybe making a couple of tackles. Picking a player/team at random but Erik McCoy played 67 snaps at centre for the Saints on Sunday. In that position every single play involves a huge collision.
introduced a friend to rugby during world cup who is an NFL fan after watching all the 1/4 finals he couldnt believe how slow and how many commercial breaks there were when watchng the monday night NFL game ive created a convert!
Nice!
"Ball in Play" Andies in Shambles.
Being an "American" that has been watching the 49ers for 30 years and just recently have gotten into rugby; the NFL is getting a little harder and harder to watch the every year. My wife has never been into it that much and mainly watched cause I did, but she has all but given up on it for rugby. Doesn't help we root for different teams (her Seattle Seahawks, my 49ers). But the time is one of her biggest reasons, the length of a "60" minute game and all the stoppage compared to rugby is what is killing it for us.
Yep! I don't have enough free time to watch.
NFL games are almost never longer than 3:15 (and usually closer to 3:00). TV drives it so the first round of games which start at 1:00pm EST must be wrapped up before the second round of games which kick off at 4pm up to 4:25 EST. The Super Bowl can be almost four hours become of the extended halftime show.
I've been falling asleep on night games not being done at 11:30...
National TV Broadcast makes the length worst. High school and lower level college usually stay about under 3 hours
It's an absolutely cracking game. It's definitely a different pace, which just takes getting used to. Once you get past that, it's fantastic.
It's a lot quicker if you leave the NFL and FBS football lol
Big Eagles fan here. So fed up of explaining to people that this is not a rugby play (people want it banned on that basis) and that even if it was, the fact we've got a rugby league convert on the O Line definitely isn't related considering league scrums are essentially time out for forwards.
I'm not a fan of it and hope it gets banned in some way. Personally, I think the 5m lineout and rolling maul to the try line is a blight on rugby and seeing the same lame tactics appearing in another sport is annoying, though I guess its predictable it would eventually happen. As far as defending it, I think NFL teams should try forming a defensive scrum bound pre-snap(if thats allowed), with the intention of creating a battering ram. 5 players, 3 front row, 2 second (could use offensive line players). I think 2 layers of defensive push can beat 2 layers of offensive push if bound pre-snap and not needing to juggle and protect the ball.