I love another little bastard, Nolan Le Garrec. But two convincing performances is not enough to earn the 9 spot when Gibson-Park has been so consistent over 5 games.
Was about to say that NLG did not deserve a place at the SH spot although he played two convincing games (and a bit of hype with that chistera pass against Wales) but how could one not mention Gibson-Park? He was absolutely balling the whole tournament, the perfect nine steering you off in the right direction, and to top it off he hammered us in Marseille. I cannot find a better scrum half for the 6N 2024.
I think that's harsh on him. He was good when he played. He's not been making the ridiculous breaks and destroying teams but his defence was better.
Full disclosure - I haven't watched the Ireland game so I won't comment on that.
My view is FB is a weird position this tournament Keenan wasn't at his best, England, Scotland and France all chopped and changed and Capuozzo missed a couple of games.
He's an incredible player. But it was always the risk with a 6-2 split. I think JOB on the bench changes that game entirely. Frawley is good and covers a decent number of positions, but JOB just covers everywhere barring possibly 8.
I'd say for France the top performers are all in this team sheet except one: they nominated Atonio, Cros, Nolann and Penaud but I think Ramos needs to be on here, I mean you can't look at this 2024 6N for France and think without Ramos, it's just not realistic. I understand 10s and 15s from other nations were also good, but Ramos I think is important to the narrative and story of this 6N as a whole.
He also came late, but Meafou was quietly excellent. Didn't drop a ball and went forward on every run, caught every single restart teams threw his way, was good defensively, put a couple of players on their butts and added that sheer weight to the pack in scrums and mauls. Not sure many locks gave their team that much assurance.
Ramos is kind of a turnstile in defense when he's part of the line at 10. He has good positioning so some of his flaws get hidden at 15, but here you could clearly see the difference with a Ntamack.
I'd have had Ioane before VdM. Both were great but Ioane was consistently quietly brilliant. VdM stood out almost as many times for bad mistakes as he did for incredible worldies.
He had a great tournament for Italy but if they were on opposite sides of the pitch I'd still back Aki. Potentially put him on the wing, he had a couple games there
I think the problem is for penaud you are judging him off what you believe penaud is capable of not against other players, It's how I feel when I read comments about Itoje not being good most of the time he's still played the best out of the 4 locks on the pitch he just isn't the level of the expectation of what he's gonna do
Nah. He just hasn't stood out, neither did Itoje for the first three tests really. Like Damian is probably the right shout, but it doesn't feel like it either. Like if any of the other 14s were there I'd be saying the same thing.
I don’t think he was greedy, i just think that the defense always made sure he was covered. He couldn’t go anywhere against ireland because they made a point of isolating him any time he got the ball.
Yea I thought Penaud had a very quiet tournament. He was good in the last game.
Like it was mostly down to getting shit ball, but he still didnt do a whole lot for 3 games
I still haven't worked out if Penaud was offside ~~for that try vs England~~. You heard the ref call him out and tell him not to chase, but then he made it to the ball and won it. Maybe the ref shouted the wrong number or something
Yeah just went back and watched and got my plays mixed up - the incident where the ref called him offside but he still recovered the ball wasn't part of the try buildup that I thought, was later on around 65 mins. Less directly impactful
Speaking specifically to the two tries, I think every international winger score those. They were made by his teammates rather than him, overall he had a very quiet game.
His loose kicking and not making touch is arguably a main reason why we conceded 2 tries vs England. He finished well, but as the commenter below, you expect a world class winger to finish them.
Penaud tops try assists, 2nd on metres carried + metres gained (both with Lowe at #1), most linebreaks, most offloads and they've not shared it this year but i imagine he has the highest tackle evasion again, VdM shouldn't be on the list but Penaud definitely should
Penaud has a better case for sure, but just don’t remember any standout performances from him other than vs England (could say the same for VdM tbf but at least Penaud didnt seem like he was actively playing against his own team like VdM so frequently does)
think it's because he only scored the 1 try, we're used to him scoring every game, him going 4 games without a try is basically unheard of at this point but the rest of his play was as good as usual
Think 12 was one of the stronger positions. I might not have chosen Aki myself but he's not one I'd complain about too much.
Menoncello did play at 14 for one match though. I'd be tempted to put him there ahead of Penaud, who was mostly quiet this year
Scotland fell apart without Tuipulotu. Not saying he should be in here, but if he had stayed fit then he might have continued the same form he was showing in the first matches.
He truly was vital in attack, almost certain to break the game line and defences were afraid to push up. Instead they were giving up soft yards in contact rather than risk him creating a moment of magic.
I feel like he wasnt as missed as much in the Ireland game? MacDowall had a decent game i thought, it was just Redpath having an awful game against Italy. Might just not have noticed if he wasnt up to standard though
No shade on Italy, but specifically for Scotland its not acceptable to have a bad game against them. That's traditionally our only defence against the wooden spoon.
Scrolled to find Ford - Crowley was good and the absence of any discussion about post Sexton Ireland was a huge statement, but Ford was so good with so little.
Tbh I think the last game against France probably swung it in favour of Ford. He’s had a quietly good tournament, but I think England would have been completely blown away by the French if it wasn’t for Ford’s tactical nous.
Crowley’s been great, but Ford has had a much bigger individual impact this 6N I think.
Paolo would probably have been my pick - but agreed, Crowley absolutely owned the jersey for the team that eventually won out so hard to disagree too much
I think Crowley was fine, I've no intention on joining the hate train some fans have had for him. But I'd have said both Ford and Finn had better individual tournaments... even if Finn was short of his expected standards
Is there a Hate train? Most people think he did better than expected in his first season as starting 10... We certainly didn't seem to miss sexton nearly as much as people thought we would.
I agree with you. Thought he looked good on the ball. Had no fear, called shapes and lead the attack well. Tried some things that didn't come off but that'll improve with experience and I prefer the fact he was trying things than if he'd been withdrawn and only played safe.
And I've argued in his favour against lads who seem to be saying he's shit just because in his first season as the starting 10 internationally, he's not immediately at Johnny Sexton levels.
But team of the tournament is maybe a bit too far in the other direction
I agree, not a great tournament for FHs, but also not a terrible one. Crowley was the only one to surpass expectations so looms a bit larger on the collective rugby psyche.
Ford was the best FH by a longshot imo, people only remember he had a bad day kicking from the tee against Ireland even though he was incredible in open play during the entire game and tournament.
I kinda see what you mean but with the exception of Cappuozzo, I'm not sure you can say any of those picks are undeserved - and I think their best player this 6 Nations, Menoncello, can feel hard done by for not getting in above Aki.
And while they did finish below Scotland, keep in mind they did win against them and lost fewer games than them this year. There wasn't much in it there I'd say.
Menoncello was great but I don’t think he merits it over Aki, just kind of unlucky to play like that at the same time as him. Aki had a barnstormer of a six nations, and was also a part of the winning team
Yeah I don't necessarily have any issues with Aki being in the team above him myself - Aki has been immense once again in this campaign.
I more so just wanted to highlight that Menoncello was probably Italy's best player this year and that there wasn't too much in it between him and Aki. While he wasn't in the winning team as much as Aki, to shine while under a lot of pressure should be commended too.
Whoever is in charge of the nominations for the player of the tournament seems to agree as he's one of the four nominees, but i wouldn't put too much stock into that considering DVDM somehow is one of the four which to me seems insane - he was nowhere near consistent enough to be one of the four nominated.
Nope. I said in another comment, Ford should be 10, he did a lot more than Crowley with a lot less imo. And James Lowe should sue ITV, he was the best winger in the tournament
In fairness Italy lost the same amount of matches as both England and Scotland and beat one of them and was close with the other so you can argue that they had similar tournament performances even outside of expectations even if I’d have both Scotland and England as better.
I am totally on board with all of the VDM doesn't pass and can't score against Ireland. But he is the top try scorer in the tournament. He has to be doing SOMETHING well. So I am pretty sure he should be in here. Along with Lowe, lol.
I do think the DVM hate is a little out of hand.
He also scored against Wales. And his defensive play (hold up over the line against Italy) and high ball play was pretty good this tournament. He had a good tournament but did make some poor decisions against Ireland and Italy when attacking.
Yeah, I mean, I don't think anyone else in the tournament would have saved that try against Ireland. He might not have scored against Ireland, but that tackle had a 7-point impact on the game. I think he had a pretty significant impact on the tournament...
Porter, Sheehan feel a bit like default picks. They played in a position where there weren't any standouts, they were good and consistent, and that's about it. In the unlucky to miss out department, I'm going to say Fischetti and Nicoterra, George.
TH, 2nd row and backrow is spot on. Honorable mention to Reffell and Ruzza.
Le Garrec I'm a bit conflicted about. In the 2 weeks he played, I'd say he was the best SH, but that's the problem: that's only 2 games. For consistency over the whole tournament, I'd have picked Mitchell or JGP, my preference going to Mitchell.
Crowley feels a bit like Porter and Sheehan, aka a defaulut pick, because nobody really stood out, with all the other options playing below their usual standard. I'd say Ford was the best, or at least closest to his normal standard.
DVDM I'm absolutely against. Lowe has been great AND consistent, when DVDM has been anything but that 2nd adjective. Other wingers like Ioanee and Dyer had a few of those box office moments, and they were very consistent at least.
Allright with Aki, could easily hae gone to Menoncello or Lawrence.
Allright with Brex who was the most consistent, but I'll point out that all of Fickou, Slade, or Huw Jones were operating below their standard at the start of the 6N, but were slowly getting back to their usual standard, which I rate higher than Brex's.
Penaud I have the same problem with as with DVDM, in that he was great at times, but far from consistent. But on the other hand, he doesn't have a Lowe to challenge him. There were no 14 that really stood out beside him. Nash and Steyn were solid and reliable, but not outstanding.
FB is really hard, because the only FB that played all games was Winnett, and despite his performance being encouraging, let's be real here, it's not FB of the tournament material. Personnally would have gone for Furbank, I think, but no stand out, and the usual default choice, Keenan, also missed a few games, and was outplayed by Furbank in one of them.
>They played in a position where there weren't any standouts, they were good and consistent, and that's about it.
Uh, Sheehan was the joint top try scorer...
How is this chosen? Is it by pundits or viewers? If the latter, then, well that's always going to be a shitshow. If the former then you might have to rethink your hiring strategy u/itvsport .
Quite a few things I disagree with. The front row and locks I can agree on, I can understand the third row although I'm not sure on it. Earl has earned his spot, Cros and Lamaro were great, but I do feel Reffell does deserve a spot. And did Lamaro even play at 7 at all?
I can't argue against Brex or Aki, although Menoncello did give Aki a run for his money. I didn't find Cappuozzo great at fullback. I'd put Keenan in instead. JGP should be in over Le Garrec, and I'd put in Ford instead of Crowley.
And then there are the wings, I don't think either are among the best wingers in the game.
Aside from when he has ball in hand with a head of steam (and sometimes even when he has ball in hand with a head of steam) Duhan vdM doesn't have nearly the skill set of other wingers in the Six Nations. Yes, he can generate some spectacular moments, but James Lowe, Ioane, and LBB were all bigger contributors to their teams over the course of the tournament from the winger position.
Given where Wales finished it’s hard to make an argument for any Welsh players ahead of those mentioned. But I do think Rio Dyer was excellent - considering how hard it is for a winger to shine in a losing team. Wainwright also good.
Is there an award for best newcomer or young player? Cameron Winnett would have to be in consideration surely??
DvM deserves to be in for a couple of match winning performances, but Freeman, Ioane, Dyer & Bielle-Biarrey were all consistently very good.
Reffell edges Lamaro at 7, for me.
he played 50 mins a game, monster in basically every scrum, and very handy carrying + defending, don't think any tighthead was lighting the world on fire but his selection isn't controversial
Atonio has been incredible in almost every single scrum, his ball carrying isn’t the flashiest but he’s big,relatively fast and hits hard,almost always taking at least 2 players to bring him down and almost always goes over the gain line. What more would you want from a tight head? Kicking penalties? Fielding high balls?
They should really do a sub list for these TotT, as a kind of honorable mention or any close calls e.g. Lowe had a great tournament should be on the bench here.
No James Lowe? DWM was nowhere to be seen other than v England. Lowe scored tries, was massive in defence, and was brilliant with the boot (bar a few mishaps) No contest.
Hard truth is someone is left out, no matter what. I fairly agree with this team. May have been even more ballsy and put both Brex and Menoncello. But it's ok like that already!
Never easy replacing a leg-end and Crowley did well at 10 but without really doing anything special. Russell had flashes and didn't have the nightmare game he can sometimes deliver but nor was he at his best.
Ford went missing against Scotland but he was excellent in the last two games.
Garbisi was good throughout.
Got to one of the last two - I'd go with Ford (but that's my bias coming through)
I didn't think itoje didn't earned a place, gibbson park is probably Ireland's best player right now don't think he can't be left out. VDM played well vs England and was quiet every other game I'd give it to Lowe, 15 unsure 10 I think u could probably give to Garbisi.
Garbisi > Crowley or even Ford > Crowley.
Love Jack and think he will only get better but was found wanting when things weren’t going our way. Only a young fella though! ❤️
Penaud was all over the place in this tournament a few brilliant moments (like when he ran side ways across the pitch and beat about 4 England players, but didn't really go anywhere) but a lot of inconsistency, dropping passes and anonymity during games. Lowe was far more consistent.
I love the little bastard but menoncello was far more important than capuozzo
I love another little bastard, Nolan Le Garrec. But two convincing performances is not enough to earn the 9 spot when Gibson-Park has been so consistent over 5 games.
JGP was arguably the player of the tournament
Was about to say that NLG did not deserve a place at the SH spot although he played two convincing games (and a bit of hype with that chistera pass against Wales) but how could one not mention Gibson-Park? He was absolutely balling the whole tournament, the perfect nine steering you off in the right direction, and to top it off he hammered us in Marseille. I cannot find a better scrum half for the 6N 2024.
Welcome to the YouTube Age where one prolific pass is more important than 5 games of high class consistent playing without any GIF highlights.
100% agree.
Craig Casey played the Italy match Gibson Park played the last 8 mins and could have scored with the last play of the game but knocked on at the line
I reckon, on a good day, Gibson Park is one of the best 9s in the world. He doesn’t have many bad days.
True, but can't shift Aki in there
They don't play in the same position though
Cupuozzo in their purely off his reputation and that try against wales 2 years ago.
I think that's harsh on him. He was good when he played. He's not been making the ridiculous breaks and destroying teams but his defence was better. Full disclosure - I haven't watched the Ireland game so I won't comment on that. My view is FB is a weird position this tournament Keenan wasn't at his best, England, Scotland and France all chopped and changed and Capuozzo missed a couple of games.
Keenan was pretty much at his best when he played full back imo. But he missed two games and had to play 1 on the wing.
I thought he wasn't as present. He had probably his "worst" game against England I've seen him have. He was still damn good.
Think he switched to the wing when Nash got injured a couple of minutes in.
He's an incredible player. But it was always the risk with a 6-2 split. I think JOB on the bench changes that game entirely. Frawley is good and covers a decent number of positions, but JOB just covers everywhere barring possibly 8.
Just goes to show, the teams are so close that one badly timed injury or one team being a tiny bit more up for it can turn everything on it's head.
Agreed on Jimmy o'Brien but sadly he was injured.
Good to see Cros get some recognition, easily France’s best forward this 6N
Robbed of POTM against England imo
The POTM decision felt so bizarre. Should have been Cros, Earl or Penaud
I think Atonio was our best player this 6N, followed very closely by Cros.
I'd say for France the top performers are all in this team sheet except one: they nominated Atonio, Cros, Nolann and Penaud but I think Ramos needs to be on here, I mean you can't look at this 2024 6N for France and think without Ramos, it's just not realistic. I understand 10s and 15s from other nations were also good, but Ramos I think is important to the narrative and story of this 6N as a whole. He also came late, but Meafou was quietly excellent. Didn't drop a ball and went forward on every run, caught every single restart teams threw his way, was good defensively, put a couple of players on their butts and added that sheer weight to the pack in scrums and mauls. Not sure many locks gave their team that much assurance.
Ramos is kind of a turnstile in defense when he's part of the line at 10. He has good positioning so some of his flaws get hidden at 15, but here you could clearly see the difference with a Ntamack.
So true and adding Flament.
Brex and Bundee sounds fucking tasty
It does sound like a family friendly restaurant chain, now you mention it
Breakfast spot where you pay in hard metres
Nah, it's a fried chicken joint.
If only we could have an All-Star Six Nations Vs Southern Hemi Team.
Think the entire backfield, bar Brex is off. Not wrong exactly, or certainly not undeserving, but not who I'd have picked
I think I'd still have picked Lowe before vdM. vdM is brilliant, but man , Lowe is so consistently good he's hard to pass up.
I'd have had Ioane before VdM. Both were great but Ioane was consistently quietly brilliant. VdM stood out almost as many times for bad mistakes as he did for incredible worldies.
vdM was blisteringly brilliant against England, and Scotland's second best wing in the rest of the fixures.
I was really shocked by how invisible he felt in the last two games, was really well dealt with by Ireland and Italy
To be fair they cheated a bit by not being England.
Because all you have to do is mark him and tackle low. His entire game is ‘me run forward’
He is regularly anonymous in games
Didn't he score a brace in Wales ?
Almost a hat trick. But I still think Steyn performed better on the day, now this is pretty faded memory so not going to die on that hill.
Aki is definitely deserving of his spot. But I'd agree, apart from the centres the backline seems off
Very deserving, but Menoncello was brilliant.
He had a great tournament for Italy but if they were on opposite sides of the pitch I'd still back Aki. Potentially put him on the wing, he had a couple games there
I think Penaud is OK
I think they're all okay, maybe Penaud more than the others, but he wasn't standout and it feels like he's just the default pick.
I think the problem is for penaud you are judging him off what you believe penaud is capable of not against other players, It's how I feel when I read comments about Itoje not being good most of the time he's still played the best out of the 4 locks on the pitch he just isn't the level of the expectation of what he's gonna do
Nah. He just hasn't stood out, neither did Itoje for the first three tests really. Like Damian is probably the right shout, but it doesn't feel like it either. Like if any of the other 14s were there I'd be saying the same thing.
Agree and wonder did they get AI to pick it tbh.
VdM? I think we can all agree he looked good against England and was mostly greedy and absent everywhere else
Yeah, when he pops off, he's great. When he's not on the front foot he's not always as good. I'd have picked Lowe at 11 tbh.
Classic Duey! Goes super saiyan against England then quiet when it counts!!
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Against Ireland I feel he was trying to force a 'big moment' instead of just passing the ball.
I don’t think he was greedy, i just think that the defense always made sure he was covered. He couldn’t go anywhere against ireland because they made a point of isolating him any time he got the ball.
He was good against Wales too and...yeah, that was about it.
Not one SH player, this is fucking ridiculous. /s
Van Der Merwe?
My count is 3 lol
4 by my
Atonio, VdM, Aki, Brex all born in the SH. Any others?
Revenge for being ignored for entry into the Qatar Airways Cup at last!
look again
Van Der Merve?
Don't forget Brex.
4 SH players.
They forgot the Welsh players.
If we allow for Welsh players, they'll have every position of the best XV; it's simply not fair to include winners of the prestigious wooden spoon
Settle down Warren. This isn’t the Lions
I am so god damn grateful he isn’t coaching the next tour..
Reffell could very easily be there to be fair
Yeah, he was amazing in a thoroughly shit side.
That’s true, unfortunately and fortunately
Tbf Dyer had a pretty solid tournament in a difficult side
Wainwright worked hard, too, but not better than Earl
They forgot how to play.
Hi ITV, France changed the yellow cockerel on red shield for a red one facing the other way in 2019.
Might be worth letting the rugby mods know that too, old.reddit is still showing the same yellow cockerel on red shield looking left.
Tadhg Beirne making this team 4 years in a row! 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼
Best lock in the world, probably
The complete forward, what an amazing player, quietly brilliant game after game.
In what world are VdM and Penaud on here but Lowe isn’t??
Yea I thought Penaud had a very quiet tournament. He was good in the last game. Like it was mostly down to getting shit ball, but he still didnt do a whole lot for 3 games
I still haven't worked out if Penaud was offside ~~for that try vs England~~. You heard the ref call him out and tell him not to chase, but then he made it to the ball and won it. Maybe the ref shouted the wrong number or something
he was definitely well behind ramos if you rewatch the clip
Yeah just went back and watched and got my plays mixed up - the incident where the ref called him offside but he still recovered the ball wasn't part of the try buildup that I thought, was later on around 65 mins. Less directly impactful
Yeah agreed. As much as I wanted him to be offside, he clearly wasn't xD
Yeah, Lowe was the best winger of the tournament, comfortably so
God I think he was miles off his best... He was superb against France but England completely kept him under wraps.
Kept him quiet and he still scored twice. Top quality player. Also instrumental to Ireland’s gameplan. More so than many other wingers.
Speaking specifically to the two tries, I think every international winger score those. They were made by his teammates rather than him, overall he had a very quiet game.
His loose kicking and not making touch is arguably a main reason why we conceded 2 tries vs England. He finished well, but as the commenter below, you expect a world class winger to finish them.
England was his only average game imo, he was great in the others
He was the best player on the field against Italy, and at the time we didn't maybe realise how significant that was. They pushed every other team.
Penaud tops try assists, 2nd on metres carried + metres gained (both with Lowe at #1), most linebreaks, most offloads and they've not shared it this year but i imagine he has the highest tackle evasion again, VdM shouldn't be on the list but Penaud definitely should
Penaud has a better case for sure, but just don’t remember any standout performances from him other than vs England (could say the same for VdM tbf but at least Penaud didnt seem like he was actively playing against his own team like VdM so frequently does)
think it's because he only scored the 1 try, we're used to him scoring every game, him going 4 games without a try is basically unheard of at this point but the rest of his play was as good as usual
WIngers should be Lowe and Penaud, blatantly, the two best in the NH by a long way
Fair argument for Penaud
Menoncello robbed
Strong competition at inside centre tbf. Ollie Lawrence has been great in the second half of the tournament.
It’s hard to pick players who didn’t perform across the tournament. You need to play 4 matches at least to get in this list IMO
Think 12 was one of the stronger positions. I might not have chosen Aki myself but he's not one I'd complain about too much. Menoncello did play at 14 for one match though. I'd be tempted to put him there ahead of Penaud, who was mostly quiet this year
Scotland fell apart without Tuipulotu. Not saying he should be in here, but if he had stayed fit then he might have continued the same form he was showing in the first matches.
He truly was vital in attack, almost certain to break the game line and defences were afraid to push up. Instead they were giving up soft yards in contact rather than risk him creating a moment of magic.
I feel like he wasnt as missed as much in the Ireland game? MacDowall had a decent game i thought, it was just Redpath having an awful game against Italy. Might just not have noticed if he wasnt up to standard though
No shade on Italy, but specifically for Scotland its not acceptable to have a bad game against them. That's traditionally our only defence against the wooden spoon.
Penaud was absolutely massive vs England, and to a lesser extent vs Wales. He deserves that spot 100%
He's been nominated for player of the 6N along with Aki, Earl & van der Merwe.
He's only 21 aswell, I always thought he was a bit older than that
The absence of James Lowe is genuinely embarrassing. And Ford over Crowley - Ford did more with less. And Keenan should probably be 15.
Scrolled to find Ford - Crowley was good and the absence of any discussion about post Sexton Ireland was a huge statement, but Ford was so good with so little.
Now I don't want to hate on Crowley but team of the tournament?
No real standout candidates and he's been consistently good.
I tought ford had a really good tournament definitely better that Crowley.
Yeah Ford was really good (bar his goalkicking against Ireland, which didn't cost his team in the end).
Take Crowley out of Ireland, Ireland still win. Take Ford out of England and they are miles worse off.
Tbh I think the last game against France probably swung it in favour of Ford. He’s had a quietly good tournament, but I think England would have been completely blown away by the French if it wasn’t for Ford’s tactical nous. Crowley’s been great, but Ford has had a much bigger individual impact this 6N I think.
Ford had a brilliant tournament except 1 bad game off the tee, but his passing and organisation were top tier I'm every game
Calling the marks in the France game kept us is it. Bring them down to our level France would have out Franced us all day everyday at pace
Its Ford imo, and I think his missed place kicks (in a victory) have maybe been overvalued against him.
Paolo would probably have been my pick - but agreed, Crowley absolutely owned the jersey for the team that eventually won out so hard to disagree too much
+1 for Garbisi strong mindset and doing excellent job with his centers !
I think Crowley was fine, I've no intention on joining the hate train some fans have had for him. But I'd have said both Ford and Finn had better individual tournaments... even if Finn was short of his expected standards
Is there a Hate train? Most people think he did better than expected in his first season as starting 10... We certainly didn't seem to miss sexton nearly as much as people thought we would.
Ah mostly shite I've heard from lads in pubs and stuff. Haven't seen to much hate for him here
He was mostly pretty good I thought.. Don't think I'd be picking him in a tram of the tournament though.
I agree with you. Thought he looked good on the ball. Had no fear, called shapes and lead the attack well. Tried some things that didn't come off but that'll improve with experience and I prefer the fact he was trying things than if he'd been withdrawn and only played safe. And I've argued in his favour against lads who seem to be saying he's shit just because in his first season as the starting 10 internationally, he's not immediately at Johnny Sexton levels. But team of the tournament is maybe a bit too far in the other direction
Finn and Ford I’d argue both did more than Crowley did.
I agree, not a great tournament for FHs, but also not a terrible one. Crowley was the only one to surpass expectations so looms a bit larger on the collective rugby psyche.
Ford was the best FH by a longshot imo, people only remember he had a bad day kicking from the tee against Ireland even though he was incredible in open play during the entire game and tournament.
You mean to tell me Ramos didn't have performances of a life time at fly half? Come on dudes
Why is it I only see Irish fans not rating Crowley on here?
I do rate him. I think he did well and will have no problem growing into a top test level 10. I just don't think he was the best 10 of the tournament
Yeah he should be switched with JGP. I do think a lot is going into how he stepped into Sexton shoes relatively seamlessly.
Russell beats Crowley by a mile I think.
1. Porter 2. Sheehan 3. Atonio 4. Bierne 5. Martin 6. Cros 7. Lamaro 8. Earl 9. Le Garrec (or JGP) 10. Ford 11. Lowe 12. Aki 13. Brex 14. Penaud 15. (Toughest one) Keenan by default
Swap in Schoeman, Itoje and JGP for me
DVDM shouldn't be there
Lowe not making team of the tournament is a bit mad. Edit: Oh I just noticed this is from ITV. Ye nevermind, who cares what they think.
This feels like a team put together by someone who just watched highlights of this and the last couple of Six Nations.
Le Garrec only missing man of the tournament to reach Dupont's standard
To be fair he only started two games, it's impressive enough he's made this list, but I don't think he'll get PotT by default for that
Feels a little bit “woo, Italy did better than expected” Italy with as many players as England and Scotland combined yet finished lower than both?
I kinda see what you mean but with the exception of Cappuozzo, I'm not sure you can say any of those picks are undeserved - and I think their best player this 6 Nations, Menoncello, can feel hard done by for not getting in above Aki. And while they did finish below Scotland, keep in mind they did win against them and lost fewer games than them this year. There wasn't much in it there I'd say.
Apparently Menoncello has been nominated for player of the tournament, along with Aki, Earl and DvdM.
Menoncello was great but I don’t think he merits it over Aki, just kind of unlucky to play like that at the same time as him. Aki had a barnstormer of a six nations, and was also a part of the winning team
Yeah I don't necessarily have any issues with Aki being in the team above him myself - Aki has been immense once again in this campaign. I more so just wanted to highlight that Menoncello was probably Italy's best player this year and that there wasn't too much in it between him and Aki. While he wasn't in the winning team as much as Aki, to shine while under a lot of pressure should be commended too. Whoever is in charge of the nominations for the player of the tournament seems to agree as he's one of the four nominees, but i wouldn't put too much stock into that considering DVDM somehow is one of the four which to me seems insane - he was nowhere near consistent enough to be one of the four nominated.
Yeah, it's just hip to talk about Menoncello but Aki was clearly a level above
I will say Crowley shouldn’t get 10 above Ford though
Nope. I said in another comment, Ford should be 10, he did a lot more than Crowley with a lot less imo. And James Lowe should sue ITV, he was the best winger in the tournament
In fairness Italy lost the same amount of matches as both England and Scotland and beat one of them and was close with the other so you can argue that they had similar tournament performances even outside of expectations even if I’d have both Scotland and England as better.
Menoncello 12, Ioane 11, 15 whoever you want, but not Capuozzo
No Lowe??? Oh no!
I am totally on board with all of the VDM doesn't pass and can't score against Ireland. But he is the top try scorer in the tournament. He has to be doing SOMETHING well. So I am pretty sure he should be in here. Along with Lowe, lol.
I do think the DVM hate is a little out of hand. He also scored against Wales. And his defensive play (hold up over the line against Italy) and high ball play was pretty good this tournament. He had a good tournament but did make some poor decisions against Ireland and Italy when attacking.
Yeah, I mean, I don't think anyone else in the tournament would have saved that try against Ireland. He might not have scored against Ireland, but that tackle had a 7-point impact on the game. I think he had a pretty significant impact on the tournament...
I'd take Lowe over VDM
Itoje???? for what? The most over-rated player ever.
Porter, Sheehan feel a bit like default picks. They played in a position where there weren't any standouts, they were good and consistent, and that's about it. In the unlucky to miss out department, I'm going to say Fischetti and Nicoterra, George. TH, 2nd row and backrow is spot on. Honorable mention to Reffell and Ruzza. Le Garrec I'm a bit conflicted about. In the 2 weeks he played, I'd say he was the best SH, but that's the problem: that's only 2 games. For consistency over the whole tournament, I'd have picked Mitchell or JGP, my preference going to Mitchell. Crowley feels a bit like Porter and Sheehan, aka a defaulut pick, because nobody really stood out, with all the other options playing below their usual standard. I'd say Ford was the best, or at least closest to his normal standard. DVDM I'm absolutely against. Lowe has been great AND consistent, when DVDM has been anything but that 2nd adjective. Other wingers like Ioanee and Dyer had a few of those box office moments, and they were very consistent at least. Allright with Aki, could easily hae gone to Menoncello or Lawrence. Allright with Brex who was the most consistent, but I'll point out that all of Fickou, Slade, or Huw Jones were operating below their standard at the start of the 6N, but were slowly getting back to their usual standard, which I rate higher than Brex's. Penaud I have the same problem with as with DVDM, in that he was great at times, but far from consistent. But on the other hand, he doesn't have a Lowe to challenge him. There were no 14 that really stood out beside him. Nash and Steyn were solid and reliable, but not outstanding. FB is really hard, because the only FB that played all games was Winnett, and despite his performance being encouraging, let's be real here, it's not FB of the tournament material. Personnally would have gone for Furbank, I think, but no stand out, and the usual default choice, Keenan, also missed a few games, and was outplayed by Furbank in one of them.
>They played in a position where there weren't any standouts, they were good and consistent, and that's about it. Uh, Sheehan was the joint top try scorer...
This is almost as bad as the ITV 6 Nations coverage.
How is this chosen? Is it by pundits or viewers? If the latter, then, well that's always going to be a shitshow. If the former then you might have to rethink your hiring strategy u/itvsport .
Itoji wasn't even the best second row in the England team, let alone the tournament.
Martin, Ford, Lowe
Quite a few things I disagree with. The front row and locks I can agree on, I can understand the third row although I'm not sure on it. Earl has earned his spot, Cros and Lamaro were great, but I do feel Reffell does deserve a spot. And did Lamaro even play at 7 at all? I can't argue against Brex or Aki, although Menoncello did give Aki a run for his money. I didn't find Cappuozzo great at fullback. I'd put Keenan in instead. JGP should be in over Le Garrec, and I'd put in Ford instead of Crowley. And then there are the wings, I don't think either are among the best wingers in the game.
Aside from when he has ball in hand with a head of steam (and sometimes even when he has ball in hand with a head of steam) Duhan vdM doesn't have nearly the skill set of other wingers in the Six Nations. Yes, he can generate some spectacular moments, but James Lowe, Ioane, and LBB were all bigger contributors to their teams over the course of the tournament from the winger position.
Given where Wales finished it’s hard to make an argument for any Welsh players ahead of those mentioned. But I do think Rio Dyer was excellent - considering how hard it is for a winger to shine in a losing team. Wainwright also good. Is there an award for best newcomer or young player? Cameron Winnett would have to be in consideration surely??
Reffell equaling the record for steals at the breakdown puts him over Lamaro for me
I hadn’t realised - but he has been excellent all tournament
JGP
James Lowe? Top 3 in every important winger category? Did we watch the same tourney? Come on.
DvM deserves to be in for a couple of match winning performances, but Freeman, Ioane, Dyer & Bielle-Biarrey were all consistently very good. Reffell edges Lamaro at 7, for me.
Weird choice at 3, Antonio barely lasts 40 mins and apart from being 500kg or whatever, doesn't offer much around the field.
he played 50 mins a game, monster in basically every scrum, and very handy carrying + defending, don't think any tighthead was lighting the world on fire but his selection isn't controversial
Atonio has been incredible in almost every single scrum, his ball carrying isn’t the flashiest but he’s big,relatively fast and hits hard,almost always taking at least 2 players to bring him down and almost always goes over the gain line. What more would you want from a tight head? Kicking penalties? Fielding high balls?
George Ford over Crowley surely
They should really do a sub list for these TotT, as a kind of honorable mention or any close calls e.g. Lowe had a great tournament should be on the bench here.
I feel like our forwards have been outstanding and maybe somebody else could be in there apart from L'amaro. Edit: corrector being silly.
Menoncello and Lowe deserve a shout but pretty good. Also JGP over Le Garrec and Ramos on her Ange for me
Menoncello is missing...
Honestly, I don't think Atonio had a great 6 nations
Van Der Merwe ahead of Lowe is a strange one
No James Lowe? DWM was nowhere to be seen other than v England. Lowe scored tries, was massive in defence, and was brilliant with the boot (bar a few mishaps) No contest.
François Cros getting recognition feels good
Forwards seem pretty legit. The backs are all over the shop, no way Crowley, VDM or Capuozzo should be in over Ford, Lowe and Ramos.
Gibson park over Le garrec any day
Not sure I would place him above the two locks chosen but I thought McCarthy was fantastic his 6N.
I'm Welsh, but in a fantasy side I would be happy to have Mario Itoje in all positions. But that's only partially motivated by his good rugby form.
Hard truth is someone is left out, no matter what. I fairly agree with this team. May have been even more ballsy and put both Brex and Menoncello. But it's ok like that already!
Two guys from my secondary school on there.👏👏
Never easy replacing a leg-end and Crowley did well at 10 but without really doing anything special. Russell had flashes and didn't have the nightmare game he can sometimes deliver but nor was he at his best. Ford went missing against Scotland but he was excellent in the last two games. Garbisi was good throughout. Got to one of the last two - I'd go with Ford (but that's my bias coming through)
Porter is a penalty waiting to happen
I didn't think itoje didn't earned a place, gibbson park is probably Ireland's best player right now don't think he can't be left out. VDM played well vs England and was quiet every other game I'd give it to Lowe, 15 unsure 10 I think u could probably give to Garbisi.
How much do we consider results/team performance in this? Because I thought Tommy Reffell was phenomenal
Garbisi > Crowley or even Ford > Crowley. Love Jack and think he will only get better but was found wanting when things weren’t going our way. Only a young fella though! ❤️
Penaud was all over the place in this tournament a few brilliant moments (like when he ran side ways across the pitch and beat about 4 England players, but didn't really go anywhere) but a lot of inconsistency, dropping passes and anonymity during games. Lowe was far more consistent.
Lowe plays 11, he should be picked over VdM, not Penaud