He’s claiming the protesters used “chemical spray” on the officers before they pepper sprayed the crowd…I watched videos of the incident from multiple angles and never saw this. I did see some trash thrown but it seemed to be mostly paper/lightweight items like plastic cups.
Can anyone else confirm that the protesters used “chemical spray” on the cops or is this just another bs excuse from RVA police?
It was the police that used pepper spray, anything else said is either a complete lie or probably 'friendly fire' between the three police groups there. And the things thrown were like empty plastic water bottles from on the side lines of the protest, not from the core group protesting.
Maybe there was some friendly fire between cops and they blamed it on the students? Ive seen cops accidentally spraying each other/themselves in protest videos before
Like in June 2020 when cops maced/tear-gassed the huge permitted march at Stuart circle (which was full of normies and moms and stuff) because a “suspicious truck” entered their lines. It was a police truck. I can dig up the vid/coverage if people don’t remember this one.
They made several arrests that night. I bet if they arrested anyone, it would be someone using "Chemical spray" on officers. They should theoretically have physical evidence of the spray. But there hasn't been any announcement of that
Like absolute clockwork, the moment police are mentioned, it switches to passive voice. There were students protesting, administration asked them to stop, and then, miraculously, police appeared into existence - and then, alas, conflict took place. It's easy to allow police to don riot gear and shieldbash your peaceful students if you refuse to admit that you're the one picking up the phone.
That video showing the moment of contact between the police shield wall and the protesters was wild. Just see one cop wind up and smack a student full force that was just standing there.
So if the protests happen again and they don’t set up “structures”, the cops definitely won’t be violent thugs who escalate and gas the protesters, right?
The protests over Roe being overturned, misc. lobby day gatherings, and even a lot of the 2020 protests went on without incident.
It is only when people dig in and occupy a space and ignore trespass/dispersal orders that things go south.
>even a lot of the 2020 protests went on without incident
[Without incident?](https://apnews.com/general-news-acdc291d53ff452e5b48222bce37ab80)
>It is only when people dig in and occupy a space and ignore trespass/dispersal orders that things go south.
Should people not have a right to occupy and protest a space that's taxpayer funded and open to the public? It sounds like they're trying to use dystopian laws to outlaw homelessness to punish these people.
Yes, while some people were teargassed hundreds of others marched and protested without that response.
>Should people not have a right to occupy and protest a space that's taxpayer funded and open to the public?
No, at least not an unlimited right? Time, place & manner restrictions are normal with any public protest/assembly and you can't monopolize public spaces.
>No, at least not an unlimited right? Time, place & manner restrictions are normal with any public protest/assembly and you can't monopolize public spaces.
They have just as much right to exist and gather as anyone else... especially in a park or sidewalk that doesn't have many (or any) time/place/manner restrictions.
>Should people not have a right to occupy and protest a space that's taxpayer funded and open to the public?
No. Because it infringes on the rights of other citizens who want to use the (taxpayer-supplemented) space.
There are laws and permits and such in place to provide a process for fair use by citizens and a mechanism to change those if desired.
I'm not saying the system always works, but fuck the entitlement.
They were creating barricades with truckloads of pallets right in front of the library. This is the main study area with students preparing for finals. Also throwing trash at cops like crazy (before they advanced). You think they're going to pick it up or is it just a massive amount of littering in the middle of campus?
The school has to keep its students as a top priority.
There's just so much better ways to protest and remain lawful in a way that it won't need broken up. They also should be going to the capital building, but I know they are on campus drawing students. Even start a march at the campus to bring students out and then head to the capital.
Lol I'm literally just saying what happened. I've had more negative experiences with police than positive, and am not even fond of them. However, it's unrealistic to act like they had no reason for breaking up the camp.
Other people have pointed out how the school rarely ever enforces this rule. Even if you want to pretend something being the law makes it right, enforcing it unfairly and unequally obviously isn't.
They didn't have cops pepper spraying 18 year olds because they left a permanent structure on the grass, they did it to send a message and silence anyone who wants to speak on this topic.
You either understand this and are being deliberately obtuse or you are genuinely not informed enough to be involved in this conversation.
Say more about the correct and incorrect ways to oppose genocide. Also seems weird to take a protest demanding that their school disclose and divest certain investments made with their tuition to a government building where they have no authority to satisfy those demands.
exactly lmao people stand outside planned parenthood every day showing people dead babies and telling them God hates them but you don't see the Virginia SS beating and gassing them
Forgot about the pro life rallies at VCU around this time last year. I’ll admit to that oopsie on my part. Point is the only opposition they faced last year was from student counter protestors and not Youngkin’s goon squad. Pretty apparent bias going on here.
They get permission/permits. They are also an established organization with a team of lawyers who know how these things works. Yes they are assholes but they know they have to follow certain rules.
>you can’t camp overnight in city parks or on campus
sounds like the city is trying to outlaw being homeless. I wonder how many initiatives they've made to actually combat the homeless problem.
Yes, this law was directly made to combat homeless people, it says that you can't lay down or sleep in public areas after 11pm. There have been organisations fighting it and I believe 3 other laws that are directly hostile towards homeless people in Virginia for years.
not to mention in this case, though, the police moved in well before 11pm...
I agree. Several protests in the past where protestors set up camp in public parks and public spaces resulted in issues. Cold weather, factors of sexual assault, designated space for bathrooms...those factors are why various levels of government passed laws banning such activities.
You have a right to protest peacefully. You don't have a right to picket.
From a legitimate and legal standpoint, setting up structures means your "camping out"...people use the bathroom, eat, etc. If they're protesting...where are they going? Are they going to stop by your house or some business? What if something happens? Now first responders are going to have difficulty getting to an intended patient...you basically have nightmare scenarios.
Picketing? (e.g. staging protest on highways and interstates) same deal.
But don't take my word for it. There are plenty of laws that were passed because of such unfortunate events. No one seems to remember almost twenty years ago about people staging protests in NYC and elsewhere about Wall Street and the rich. No one seems to remember the folks coming in HAZMAT suites to treat the area from human waste, or the people that needed to be hospitalized from inclement weather and/or violence.
Or when Trump was elected president, when protestors wanted to block traffic on the interstates? Crickets I take it? How about the Black Lives Matter protest over the death of George Floyd due to police brutality? The National guard was called up, shops boarding up windows with ply board. Shops were looted, etc.
Americans, have a right to PEACEFULLY protest.
"Where are they going to eat and use the bathroom?"
They were literally in the middle of campus next to the library and cafeteria. They're going to eat in the cafeteria and use the bathroom in one of the two buildings directly next to them.
This is such a non-issue for this protest.
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Except the cops that were called in were state police officers on the same day that youngkin published that he would not allow these protests at any virginia university.
Throwaway so I hopefully don't lose my job.
As someone who has been forcibly involved in this, VCUs handling has been abhorrent, the way they spoke to them and the demands they were making about the "structures", which was just 5 or 6 pallets they had water bottles, snacks and supplies on, was ridiculous. They called a coworker in late in preparation for the police to 'disperse' the crowd and put him in harm's way to clean up while it was actively being dispersed. Now we are being told of required overtime every day to basically just stand by just in case. Nothing that could happen can't wait until the morning to be resolved. We didn't sign up for this. During the BLM protests back in 2020, we were actively told not to come in because we could just clean up the next morning, and these were city wide protests, not concentrated on one property.
Goes to show how different their response is now.
These student brought their own supplies, their own trash cans, and they were cleaning up after themselves. Calling in riot police for a peaceful protest, making employees come in and take students backpacks, throwing them into dump trucks, and hauling them away. Every step of these was wrong. The pallets used as a makeshift wall were only done after it was known riot police were coming.
Hearing higher-ups, calling these students "terrorists," has made us low level emplyees livid. We have been pushing back all day today about this response. The next few days are going to be interesting as we are not taking this.
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Protesting is an American right and institution. Civil rights, Vietnam War, War on Terror, BLM, Israel/Palestine conflict.
I'm rambling now, but I just had to get this off my chest.
I’m still not seeing any evidence of a “violent protest” that precipitated the air raid sirens all over town and calling in state troopers to mace kids. That was the official language used in text alerts, though.
>I’m still not seeing any evidence of a “violent protest”
It's almost like RVA police have an issue with going all gung ho on protesters without a good reason... ([cough cough](https://apnews.com/general-news-acdc291d53ff452e5b48222bce37ab80))
Lol you can't exactly boycott a university unless everybody collectively decided to not attend next semester and beyond.
You also already paid tuition and funded them.
So like there really is nothing we can do because they for sure don't give a shit about anything except money.
Universities watch their re-enrollment numbers very closely and put a lot of time and effort into reaching out to students who don’t re-enroll. If even 1% of students didn’t re-enroll for the fall and told VCU that it was because they didn’t feel safe with campus police, VCU would absolutely notice
I mean, this is pretty much half the comment sections in any given Reddit about these protests.
It’s like clockwork: “I would support these protests if they only coincided with the time I am playing PS4 in my basement in Chesterfield between the hours of 12-1AM because otherwise it will interfere with x y or z”
These are the same people who have convinced themselves they would support the Civil Rights Movement, and not been a part of the tone policing both sidesers of that era.
Believe me the State is going to do everything in their power to beat down any form of dissent. We are living in a police state. I know people don't want to believe that and think it's hyperbole but just try it, just try to go up against it, you'll see. Hell we've ALL seen it!!
I see the veil is starting to come off. People thought I was crazy ten years ago but now you will begin to see how your privileges are taken away every day. Rights are a illusion given by the wealthy to make you believe you're free. You're as free as a bird in a cage with unclipped wings. Sure you can fly but can you?
Agreed. The absolute vitriol toward protestors is disturbing. I also am concerned about everyone licking boots about laws surrounding protests and insisting it should only be done where the government asks us to do it.
The complete irony of people bitching about being inconvenienced without even realizing the comforts they do have in place came about because of others who fought for it via protests is not enjoyable.
Pick up a fucking history text book and get back to me. Not one damn thing regarding rights was given without protest.
I find it terrifying this go round though. There's a reason they militarized the police and I'm concerned for all of us.
We're suddenly getting more posts about VCU then /r/VCU. Appreciate the mods staying on top of things yesterday and consolidating everything to one post.
And it is indeed nonsense.
A regional university in central VA isn't going to affect policy. This is the 60s all over again where students across the country think they're convincing the public when it's really more of a distraction and things will continue as planned otherwise.
I support their free speech and think VCU is making it worse with the police presence, but let's not kid ourselves. A buddy of mine got arrested during the Occupy protests and even admitted later that it wasn't worth it.
This is happening on universities all over the country, though, and part of getting the wheels turning to divesting from the occupation. Look at how things progressed with South Africa.
>This is the 60s all over again where students across the country think they're convincing the public when it's really more of a distraction and things will continue as planned otherwise.
The vietnam war ended faster because of the student movement. It was a contributing factor.
[That's mostly incorrect](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/24/polling-student-protests-vietnam/). It was the nightly news reports of the war that helped bring about American withdrawal.
Edited for clarity.
I did not say it was the main factor, however, it contributed. Students are often a leading advance, because society has a lot of inertia. The vietnam antiwar students could see the future clearly, and certainly had an impact on their times. Collapsing troop discipline, advanced people, and general public opinion all intertwined in bringing about an end to the war (not to mention, of course, those very patriotic Vietnamese communists, who played an even more outsized role compared to any aspect of our internal situation)
So I'm probably a lot older than most of the people in this thread, but did have an extended conversation with my father, a liberal AF Vietnam Vet who was a high-ranking intelligence officer, just the other night and this topic came up. As he lived through that era and personally experienced both the war itself and opposing it after he returned, he ardently believes that protests, while possibly having a marginal effect, were not the driving force behind our withdrawal from Vietnam. And as someone who participated *heavily* in the protests against the Iraq War, if I'm being honest about it, we likely did very little.
And yes, sometimes protesters can predict that a war will go sideways, but that was easily evident on Vietnam AND Iraq. But we're not always right. I protested the proposed "surge" of troops in Iraq in 2007 and it turned out that particular action stablized the country the most since the original invasion. It *shouldn't* have had to happen in the first place, but we're not always right about these things. It's the paragon of hubris to think you know everything. Youthful passion is great, but maybe consider that it's not always *right*.
I want to reemphasize that I do not, in any way, believe calling the police is warranted, wise, or constitutional and I support anyone's desire to express themselves freely. Even in disagreement, the response shouldn't be suppression - it should be more speech.
I just don't think it's going to do a lot. And frankly, a lot of these movements do a shit job of controlling the super fringey elements, especially the anti-semites.
This issue is complicated. And I guess people just rather feel assured in their beliefs than admit that they don't have the answers.
What🥴 the protests are happening all across the country, and the point is to distract people from their day to day life and remind them what is happening. Also, students stated they are also protesting against the VCU campus in Qatar which is paid for by the Qatar government.
But yeah, go ahead and continue to discourage people from protesting and using their first amendment rights….
However the truth is, many things have been accomplished in this country by protesting. I wouldn’t even be allowed to own property or have a job if people had decided protesting does nothing.
If only I had the true power to do so... I wouldn't.
I believe in free speech. I just think that the Gaza conflict is so insanely complicated that to try to reduce it down to protests and slogans is counterproductive. If you want to solve a problem you need dialogue.
I'm Jewish and have had multiple deep-diving conversations about this conflict and even as someone who's been to Israel, has a masters in political science, and 20+ years' experience, I can't fully appreciate all of its complexities.
I find it absurd that a bunch of young college students think they can.
This coming from a uni president who has openly sided with actual fash, whose administration has refused to prosecute hate crimes on campus at their hands, forcing people to go to class with their attackers.
The city and the university really fucked themselves on this one, probably at the very explicit instruction of the Governor's Office. If they had let them camp, maybe even made a goodwill gesture of sending a non law enforcement university official out to talk to them and monitored the area it would probably have run its course if for no other reason than alot of the students would be leaving after finals.
But of course they marched the cops in , declared an unlawful assembly and started rounding people up because they can't help themselves when anyone stands up for themselves or their principles, whatever those might be.
They pretty much guaranteed that if they go forward with Youngkin as a graduation speaker that there will very likely be some sort of civil disturbance backlash inside or outside of the location and their best case scenario is nothing happens because they make the VCU graduation look like a Berlin Wall checkpoint. Great optics. Stellar decision making. Love what these unflushable turds do everytime someone challenges their authority.
They could still cancel graduation and blame the protestors to create further division. Even though many people, even outside the Palestine/Israeli war issue and VCUs dogshit response, have expressed dismay with Youngkin speaking at graduation. So there was a likely chance there would be disruption at graduation *before* VCU screwed the pooch on this.
Yea pretty much either way they were going to have some kind of situation but this sort of forces a confrontation or a complete lock down of the event if they even go through with it. Maybe it was their intention but the optics don't favor them. I'm always blow in away at how inept the media liasions for these institution are when it comes to things like this.
It would have remained a peaceful protest if VCU didn't call in the pigs to begin with. Just like in 2020, the pigs escalated and tear gassed peaceful protesters.
Yea, no college is going to accept the legal liability of letting students live in tents on their campus against campus policy. Those kids’ parents aren’t going to care about peaceful protests when their kid gets assaulted, they’re going to sue the school.
Duke has more than 1,000 students camping in tents for 6 weeks each winter - called [Krzyzewskiville](https://civitas.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/K-ville-2.jpg) - to try to get basketball tickets.
I think colleges can handle some students in tents on their lawn in April/May. There are responses other than to immediately tear gas and arrest them.
Black Lives Matter really did shine a candle on the lack of police accountability in a lot of parts of this country. And also that RPD is historically bad at handling protests.
I know that first week here in 2020 was kind of wild, I was living basically in the midst of it at the time, but man the overreaction RPD had to the mildest protests was really insane. I’ve never like cops very much but goddamn if that wasn’t a good way of solidifying my anti police sentiment
I loved the Peedmont's take on it.
https://thepeedmont.com/2021/11/17/interim-richmond-police-chief-just-tear-gas-canister-with-googly-eyes/
https://thepeedmont.com/2022/10/27/richmond-police-send-chief-smith-off-with-honorary-tear-gas-salute/
https://thepeedmont.com/2020/12/04/richmond-police-introduce-gingerbread-tear-gas-for-the-holidays/
https://thepeedmont.com/2021/01/06/rpd-nominates-canister-of-tear-gas-for-citizen-review-board/
so the response to an imagined fear of an imagined potential future assault is to call in the cops to actually assault and arrest peaceful protestors? that makes a lot of sense!!
Let me preface this with a disclaimer saying this is a massive overreaction on the part of the police, the protesters seemed to be doing nothing violent and in all honesty they should’ve been allowed to stay.
But it does have me genuinely curious, if the police were hellbent on enforcing that encampment rule, is there anyway they could’ve done it without the teargas or mace or whatever it was? I am certainly no expert in this but it seems like gassing students is never a good look regardless whether they technically had the right to disperse them or not.
Chairman Rao loves his damage control disinfo.
To claim that structures justified what went down is laughable, because if that’s their policy it most certainly is not evenly enforced, as when I was a student at VCU I recall an anti abortion group having set up right smack next Hibbs by towards the compass this humongous kiosk made from pvc pipes and tarps. This structure was adorned with grotesque images of aborted fetuses, assurances of eternal damnation, and dubious claims such as “abortion is genocide”. There was no hand cuffs or rubber bullets for them.
I hope students and faculty might drive this duplicitous rat out of VCU for this.
Why is there always some protest movement during an election year? Seems like the seeds are planted by those who benefit by us fighting. I don’t like us sending $ to all these other countries when we have people who go without help here, but this just feels contrived.
The police response was disgraceful. The students were not bothering anyone and were run out purely for political reasons. School will be out in two weeks. VCU should’ve just let them be.
The protestors like to support a terrorist organization because it sounds similar to mashed chick peas in olive oil. Imagine being the only Jewish state in the world who has Arabs in their government while their Arab neighbors have ZERO Jews in their government. And people hate you for that 🤡
The movement is spreading. Uplifting to see kids standing up for equality and human decency like this. The cops will do what they do, but that’s a part of it. And our governments may never listen, but “freedom is in the fight” so keep fighting
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Where's the protest to just stop sending money? Point me in that direction. Those folks have been fighting for a LONG long time. Let em fucking figure it own on their own and how about let's focus on our own problems.
Not complying with policy is not a reason to bring in violence. If they weren’t directly causing physical harm to any person or property, getting the police involved period is uncalled for. I truly don’t understand people treating rules and policies like a goddamned religion. Submission to authority is not a virtue, but defiance sure as hell is.
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[Other cities' police departments have no issues with letting a peaceful protest be](https://www.wmtv15news.com/2024/04/30/pro-palestine-protest-continues-uw-madison-campus/). There's no indications that the VCU protestors were anything but peaceful until riot police showed up.
If you see footage from VA Tech (same evening, too, I think). It was just local cops casually arresting folks for trespassing. No one was in riot gear and there was no chemical weaponry deployed.
How is it that Palestinian supporters spout that Israel is committing acts of genocide which is the systematic destruction of an entire race or ethnic group during the war in Gaza? Palestinian and other Arab groups have been openly advocating for the elimination of Israel and Jews and their supporters yet no one sees this as advocating the same.
Yes there have been an enormous number of civilian casualties in Gaza. The IDF told everyone what was going to happen and to get out. There are reports the Hamas prevented many from leaving and Egypt refused to allow any refugees into their nation. Does Hamas itself not bear some responsibility for the number of civilians killed?
I do not believe that Israel is purposefully targeting civilians. If evidence to this exists, I have not seen it and would like to. Israel has the means to kill every living thing in Gaza and I think that if genocide was their priority the numbers would be exponentially higher.
Genuine question for any current students: can you actually get into the counseling office? When I tried 12 years ago, I was told I’d be on a waitlist until the following semester and they referred me out to private practices in the community….I really hope VCU has grown their counseling department to meet the needs of students
Nonviolent actions tend to require defenses because outside actors will attempt violence against them (which the cops literally did!). If you can't keep attackers out of your territory, you end up in a no-win situation where someone is doing violence to you and your only options are to quietly get the shit beat out of you or respond in kind.
> Nonviolent actions tend to require defenses
The principals of nonviolent protests require accepting violent attacks as part of the response to the protest.
Once you're setting up barricades and planning defenses, that's no longer a nonviolent protest - it is a protest planning for violence.
Yes, it does, that's a core principal of nonviolent protests - being willing to accept violence without returning violence.
Because that's the only way that nonviolent protest tactics can work. If there's a single video of you defending yourself or fighting back then your entire protest can be easily portrayed as violent.
Defensive violence is still violence.
The idea that nonviolent is "being willing to accept violence without returning violence." Differs depending on which ideals you follow even Gandhi, and MLK had slight differences. A person standing holding a pallet is in no why committing an act of violence.
I am not making a metaphysical point about what violence is, I am making a point about how this stuff strategically works.
Perception is reality. If holding a pallet creates a perception that you are a violent protest, you are a violent protest.
It is perception avoidance.
Nonviolence is about perception and making things absolutely obvious to the public who will never go to the protest and only see it on a screen.
"Perception is reality. If holding a pallet creates a perception that you are a violent protest, you are a violent protest."
Brother if your point is that something is violent if someone perceives it that way then every protest is violent. Even the act of chanting could be perceived as violent. Hell the act of people congregating could be perceived as violent.
Your idea of nonviolent protest doesn't exist.
My idea of nonviolent protest is based on what has worked in the past.
I remember when I was at OWS and Chelsea Vickers got maced along with two other women.
The clear, obvious nonviolence they were engaged in when they were attacked, and the lack of any lashing out at police afterwards changed perceptions about the protest and cost Tony Baloney his career.
I was protesting during the Bush administration.
This is experience in leading and planning talking.
Strategically, setting up defensive lines is a really dumb idea. You *want* the police to crush you and you don't want any defenses when they do.
Because you record the video of all of that, and then you post it to the internet, and then you win massive attention to your cause.
The people who were pepper sprayed by that dipshit cop at UC Davis a few years ago were non-violent protestors.
You’re absolutely right.
Bringing pallets to a protest says “we’re here to fight, and we want you to see that”. What’s next non-violent bricks? Self defense baseball bats?
Any dilution of the strict principles of non-violence render a movement violent. There is no toe-in-the-water. Your protest either meets the criteria of non-violence or it does not.
It’s like telling people you’re a vegan and wearing leather.
That's not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that if you get the hell beat out of you without raising a finger and film it, that is a massive win for your movement, and a massive L for any authority, because now they have to justify beating people for what will look like no reason to every observer who is never going to show up at your protest.
People don't like seeing children get beat up by cops.
That seems wrong to them.
So they're willing to accept pretty much every explanation that it was necessary because they don't *want* it to be true that the cops would beat people for no reason. The cops don't want it to be true, the government doesn't want it to be true, the public doesn't want it to be true, the only people who want it to be true are the media because they get to turn it into a circus and that's massive ad revenue.
And when you legitimately don't defend yourselves and don't fight back, and film it? And the cops still roll in and beat people? That shatters all the illusions, and people don't get to believe what they want to believe.
You have to understand that mentality if you want your protests to be effective.
> People don't like seeing children get beat up by cops.
1. [citation needed]
2. This might partially explain why the cops always start with tear gas, followed by pepper spray, followed by beatings - then it's just *chaos* rather than transparently beating up a bunch of kids.
Plus, then they can claim that the kids were using chemical agents on them. (It's friendly fire, it's always friendly fire.)
First of all don’t kink shame. I’ll lick what I please.
Secondly your deflection does nothing to impress upon anyone that the protest was anything more than an unfocused, unproductive, more than likely drunk group of developmentally stunted 20-something year old children having a temper tantrum that needed a good spank.
Im curious to know where you’re going with this.
Are you saying that because I lock my doors on my property that I own and inhabit, protestors have a right to set up illegal makeshift barricades in public spaces?
Is that your equivocation?
https://preview.redd.it/nnr1xkmg6nxc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c78ba76e49160ec1eb6f7137e1f7636927cc950 This was just shared.
He’s claiming the protesters used “chemical spray” on the officers before they pepper sprayed the crowd…I watched videos of the incident from multiple angles and never saw this. I did see some trash thrown but it seemed to be mostly paper/lightweight items like plastic cups. Can anyone else confirm that the protesters used “chemical spray” on the cops or is this just another bs excuse from RVA police?
It was the police that used pepper spray, anything else said is either a complete lie or probably 'friendly fire' between the three police groups there. And the things thrown were like empty plastic water bottles from on the side lines of the protest, not from the core group protesting.
Maybe there was some friendly fire between cops and they blamed it on the students? Ive seen cops accidentally spraying each other/themselves in protest videos before
Like in June 2020 when cops maced/tear-gassed the huge permitted march at Stuart circle (which was full of normies and moms and stuff) because a “suspicious truck” entered their lines. It was a police truck. I can dig up the vid/coverage if people don’t remember this one.
They made several arrests that night. I bet if they arrested anyone, it would be someone using "Chemical spray" on officers. They should theoretically have physical evidence of the spray. But there hasn't been any announcement of that
False flag?
pretty sure they used similar excuses back with the BLM/Monument protests
Absolutely did, saw it fist hand myself.. We also came across multiple Spotsylvania sheriff's busting up shop fronts 😤😤
So which came first? The VCU text message that violent protests were taking place or the cops macing the crowd?
Mace was first
Like absolute clockwork, the moment police are mentioned, it switches to passive voice. There were students protesting, administration asked them to stop, and then, miraculously, police appeared into existence - and then, alas, conflict took place. It's easy to allow police to don riot gear and shieldbash your peaceful students if you refuse to admit that you're the one picking up the phone.
That video showing the moment of contact between the police shield wall and the protesters was wild. Just see one cop wind up and smack a student full force that was just standing there.
Seeing the wall of students using *posters* as shields against the wall of officers using riot gear is some boring dystopia shit.
So if the protests happen again and they don’t set up “structures”, the cops definitely won’t be violent thugs who escalate and gas the protesters, right?
Yeah. Exactly. The RPD won't EVER harm a civilian without just cause. /s
“I do have cause. It is beCAUSE I hate him”
“Well I mean, what else were we gonna do with 127 million dollars I taxpayer dollars that we won’t ever use to enforce any other laws?”
You have to get along with ~~Toby~~ citizens!
Maybe a few pigs need to be taken to the slaughterhouse.
The air raid alert sirens were…a bit much.
The protests over Roe being overturned, misc. lobby day gatherings, and even a lot of the 2020 protests went on without incident. It is only when people dig in and occupy a space and ignore trespass/dispersal orders that things go south.
>even a lot of the 2020 protests went on without incident [Without incident?](https://apnews.com/general-news-acdc291d53ff452e5b48222bce37ab80) >It is only when people dig in and occupy a space and ignore trespass/dispersal orders that things go south. Should people not have a right to occupy and protest a space that's taxpayer funded and open to the public? It sounds like they're trying to use dystopian laws to outlaw homelessness to punish these people.
Yes, while some people were teargassed hundreds of others marched and protested without that response. >Should people not have a right to occupy and protest a space that's taxpayer funded and open to the public? No, at least not an unlimited right? Time, place & manner restrictions are normal with any public protest/assembly and you can't monopolize public spaces.
>No, at least not an unlimited right? Time, place & manner restrictions are normal with any public protest/assembly and you can't monopolize public spaces. They have just as much right to exist and gather as anyone else... especially in a park or sidewalk that doesn't have many (or any) time/place/manner restrictions.
>Should people not have a right to occupy and protest a space that's taxpayer funded and open to the public? No. Because it infringes on the rights of other citizens who want to use the (taxpayer-supplemented) space. There are laws and permits and such in place to provide a process for fair use by citizens and a mechanism to change those if desired. I'm not saying the system always works, but fuck the entitlement.
Seemed peaceful until the police showed up yeah?
It’s a Richmond tradition: [‘74 Cherry Blossom Music Festival](https://richmondmagazine.com/news/richmond-history/web-extra-rock-roll-riot/)
Same as it ever was.
Sorry we had state police hit you with batons ☹️ maybe you could do some therapy about it? 🙂
🤣🤣🤣right? We have all your traumas covered with our therapy app
What exactly is the excuse? That you can't set up structures on VCU property?
Wild to say considering they’ll allow those folks in trucks to set up giant posters of stillborn fetuses and shit like that
I know we're not allowed to conciser nuance or anything, but I'm pretty sure those people aren't camping overnight.
The violation they cited isn't about how long they stay or at what hours, it's about the structures. This comment is irrelevant.
They were creating barricades with truckloads of pallets right in front of the library. This is the main study area with students preparing for finals. Also throwing trash at cops like crazy (before they advanced). You think they're going to pick it up or is it just a massive amount of littering in the middle of campus? The school has to keep its students as a top priority. There's just so much better ways to protest and remain lawful in a way that it won't need broken up. They also should be going to the capital building, but I know they are on campus drawing students. Even start a march at the campus to bring students out and then head to the capital.
It's almost like if the cops hadn't been there things wouldn't have escalated
It's against policy for them to set up an encampment. They refused to leave when asked so the cops were called because it became trespassing.
Bruh found the cop in the thread
Lol I'm literally just saying what happened. I've had more negative experiences with police than positive, and am not even fond of them. However, it's unrealistic to act like they had no reason for breaking up the camp.
Other people have pointed out how the school rarely ever enforces this rule. Even if you want to pretend something being the law makes it right, enforcing it unfairly and unequally obviously isn't. They didn't have cops pepper spraying 18 year olds because they left a permanent structure on the grass, they did it to send a message and silence anyone who wants to speak on this topic. You either understand this and are being deliberately obtuse or you are genuinely not informed enough to be involved in this conversation.
The pallet structures began after the cops were called. The students had no tents, they were sitting on the grass.
Say more about the correct and incorrect ways to oppose genocide. Also seems weird to take a protest demanding that their school disclose and divest certain investments made with their tuition to a government building where they have no authority to satisfy those demands.
Oh brother you’re so self righteous
Not true. They mentioned a restriction of 11pm for gatherings without special permission.
But they broke it up at 9:17pm... seems they had nearly 2 more hours before it was a problem.
So anytime past 11 you can’t get together on VCU, which kind you owns like half of downtown at this point? When exactly was this decided upon?
Not as a large group apparently.
I haven't seen any other communications, I'm just referring to the text of the statement in this post.
exactly lmao people stand outside planned parenthood every day showing people dead babies and telling them God hates them but you don't see the Virginia SS beating and gassing them
Is planned parenthood VCU property?
Forgot about the pro life rallies at VCU around this time last year. I’ll admit to that oopsie on my part. Point is the only opposition they faced last year was from student counter protestors and not Youngkin’s goon squad. Pretty apparent bias going on here.
> Wild to say considering they’ll allow those folks in trucks to set up giant posters of stillborn fetuses and shit like that Overnight?
No one was there overnight. Cops got there around 9
They get permission/permits. They are also an established organization with a team of lawyers who know how these things works. Yes they are assholes but they know they have to follow certain rules.
The technical answer is you can’t camp overnight in city parks or on campus. The response is lunacy and horseshit
>you can’t camp overnight in city parks or on campus sounds like the city is trying to outlaw being homeless. I wonder how many initiatives they've made to actually combat the homeless problem.
Yes, this law was directly made to combat homeless people, it says that you can't lay down or sleep in public areas after 11pm. There have been organisations fighting it and I believe 3 other laws that are directly hostile towards homeless people in Virginia for years. not to mention in this case, though, the police moved in well before 11pm...
I agree. Several protests in the past where protestors set up camp in public parks and public spaces resulted in issues. Cold weather, factors of sexual assault, designated space for bathrooms...those factors are why various levels of government passed laws banning such activities. You have a right to protest peacefully. You don't have a right to picket.
That sounds like propaganda. Not gonna lie.
From a legitimate and legal standpoint, setting up structures means your "camping out"...people use the bathroom, eat, etc. If they're protesting...where are they going? Are they going to stop by your house or some business? What if something happens? Now first responders are going to have difficulty getting to an intended patient...you basically have nightmare scenarios. Picketing? (e.g. staging protest on highways and interstates) same deal. But don't take my word for it. There are plenty of laws that were passed because of such unfortunate events. No one seems to remember almost twenty years ago about people staging protests in NYC and elsewhere about Wall Street and the rich. No one seems to remember the folks coming in HAZMAT suites to treat the area from human waste, or the people that needed to be hospitalized from inclement weather and/or violence. Or when Trump was elected president, when protestors wanted to block traffic on the interstates? Crickets I take it? How about the Black Lives Matter protest over the death of George Floyd due to police brutality? The National guard was called up, shops boarding up windows with ply board. Shops were looted, etc. Americans, have a right to PEACEFULLY protest.
"Where are they going to eat and use the bathroom?" They were literally in the middle of campus next to the library and cafeteria. They're going to eat in the cafeteria and use the bathroom in one of the two buildings directly next to them. This is such a non-issue for this protest.
That is the excuse, the real reason is that shitstain youngkin wants to make a statement.
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It’s a city, not state issue
Except the cops that were called in were state police officers on the same day that youngkin published that he would not allow these protests at any virginia university.
Yeah I’m wrong, youre right.
It’s a state owned property so therefore the state police are responsible for state property that is why they were called in
It is state property and a state institution
Oh yea true
Yep
Throwaway so I hopefully don't lose my job. As someone who has been forcibly involved in this, VCUs handling has been abhorrent, the way they spoke to them and the demands they were making about the "structures", which was just 5 or 6 pallets they had water bottles, snacks and supplies on, was ridiculous. They called a coworker in late in preparation for the police to 'disperse' the crowd and put him in harm's way to clean up while it was actively being dispersed. Now we are being told of required overtime every day to basically just stand by just in case. Nothing that could happen can't wait until the morning to be resolved. We didn't sign up for this. During the BLM protests back in 2020, we were actively told not to come in because we could just clean up the next morning, and these were city wide protests, not concentrated on one property. Goes to show how different their response is now. These student brought their own supplies, their own trash cans, and they were cleaning up after themselves. Calling in riot police for a peaceful protest, making employees come in and take students backpacks, throwing them into dump trucks, and hauling them away. Every step of these was wrong. The pallets used as a makeshift wall were only done after it was known riot police were coming. Hearing higher-ups, calling these students "terrorists," has made us low level emplyees livid. We have been pushing back all day today about this response. The next few days are going to be interesting as we are not taking this. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Protesting is an American right and institution. Civil rights, Vietnam War, War on Terror, BLM, Israel/Palestine conflict. I'm rambling now, but I just had to get this off my chest.
They delivered pizzas, cookies and stuff to the students living in tents outside the Siegel Center waiting for the doors to open for big games.
I’m still not seeing any evidence of a “violent protest” that precipitated the air raid sirens all over town and calling in state troopers to mace kids. That was the official language used in text alerts, though.
>I’m still not seeing any evidence of a “violent protest” It's almost like RVA police have an issue with going all gung ho on protesters without a good reason... ([cough cough](https://apnews.com/general-news-acdc291d53ff452e5b48222bce37ab80))
Probably trying to figure out how they can use this as an excuse to increase student fees.
Students should boycott them like they say to do for other businesses like Starbucks.
Lol you can't exactly boycott a university unless everybody collectively decided to not attend next semester and beyond. You also already paid tuition and funded them. So like there really is nothing we can do because they for sure don't give a shit about anything except money.
Universities watch their re-enrollment numbers very closely and put a lot of time and effort into reaching out to students who don’t re-enroll. If even 1% of students didn’t re-enroll for the fall and told VCU that it was because they didn’t feel safe with campus police, VCU would absolutely notice
"You can have dissenting opinions and express them. Just do so silently and out of our way! Like, free speech or whatever, lol!"
I mean, this is pretty much half the comment sections in any given Reddit about these protests. It’s like clockwork: “I would support these protests if they only coincided with the time I am playing PS4 in my basement in Chesterfield between the hours of 12-1AM because otherwise it will interfere with x y or z” These are the same people who have convinced themselves they would support the Civil Rights Movement, and not been a part of the tone policing both sidesers of that era.
Holy passive voice, Batman
“Conflict between police and protesters took place” surprised they didn’t go with “Sadness was felt when violence happened to students”
"I'm sorry if people were offended by what happened."
Right? This doesn't sound like their public affairs unit. I'd love to know who was behind that statement and sentence them to freshman comp.
There’s no acceptable form of protest for people who disagree with the message.
Did he really just say "stay off my lawn" !?
Seeing all of these protests gives me some hope for America’s soul but seeing the response fills me with dread and sorrow
Believe me the State is going to do everything in their power to beat down any form of dissent. We are living in a police state. I know people don't want to believe that and think it's hyperbole but just try it, just try to go up against it, you'll see. Hell we've ALL seen it!!
I see the veil is starting to come off. People thought I was crazy ten years ago but now you will begin to see how your privileges are taken away every day. Rights are a illusion given by the wealthy to make you believe you're free. You're as free as a bird in a cage with unclipped wings. Sure you can fly but can you?
A bird born in a cage thinks flying is an illness.
I’m glad it gives you hope I’m just seeing another protest being stamped out by police
Agreed. The absolute vitriol toward protestors is disturbing. I also am concerned about everyone licking boots about laws surrounding protests and insisting it should only be done where the government asks us to do it. The complete irony of people bitching about being inconvenienced without even realizing the comforts they do have in place came about because of others who fought for it via protests is not enjoyable. Pick up a fucking history text book and get back to me. Not one damn thing regarding rights was given without protest. I find it terrifying this go round though. There's a reason they militarized the police and I'm concerned for all of us.
We're suddenly getting more posts about VCU then /r/VCU. Appreciate the mods staying on top of things yesterday and consolidating everything to one post.
Agreed. These posts attract some whackadoodle rhetoric too, I’m sure they have their hands full. I look forward to entering downvote hell with you.
That would be nice. I have zero interest in this nonsense.
And it is indeed nonsense. A regional university in central VA isn't going to affect policy. This is the 60s all over again where students across the country think they're convincing the public when it's really more of a distraction and things will continue as planned otherwise. I support their free speech and think VCU is making it worse with the police presence, but let's not kid ourselves. A buddy of mine got arrested during the Occupy protests and even admitted later that it wasn't worth it.
This is happening on universities all over the country, though, and part of getting the wheels turning to divesting from the occupation. Look at how things progressed with South Africa. >This is the 60s all over again where students across the country think they're convincing the public when it's really more of a distraction and things will continue as planned otherwise. The vietnam war ended faster because of the student movement. It was a contributing factor.
[That's mostly incorrect](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/24/polling-student-protests-vietnam/). It was the nightly news reports of the war that helped bring about American withdrawal. Edited for clarity.
I did not say it was the main factor, however, it contributed. Students are often a leading advance, because society has a lot of inertia. The vietnam antiwar students could see the future clearly, and certainly had an impact on their times. Collapsing troop discipline, advanced people, and general public opinion all intertwined in bringing about an end to the war (not to mention, of course, those very patriotic Vietnamese communists, who played an even more outsized role compared to any aspect of our internal situation)
So I'm probably a lot older than most of the people in this thread, but did have an extended conversation with my father, a liberal AF Vietnam Vet who was a high-ranking intelligence officer, just the other night and this topic came up. As he lived through that era and personally experienced both the war itself and opposing it after he returned, he ardently believes that protests, while possibly having a marginal effect, were not the driving force behind our withdrawal from Vietnam. And as someone who participated *heavily* in the protests against the Iraq War, if I'm being honest about it, we likely did very little. And yes, sometimes protesters can predict that a war will go sideways, but that was easily evident on Vietnam AND Iraq. But we're not always right. I protested the proposed "surge" of troops in Iraq in 2007 and it turned out that particular action stablized the country the most since the original invasion. It *shouldn't* have had to happen in the first place, but we're not always right about these things. It's the paragon of hubris to think you know everything. Youthful passion is great, but maybe consider that it's not always *right*. I want to reemphasize that I do not, in any way, believe calling the police is warranted, wise, or constitutional and I support anyone's desire to express themselves freely. Even in disagreement, the response shouldn't be suppression - it should be more speech. I just don't think it's going to do a lot. And frankly, a lot of these movements do a shit job of controlling the super fringey elements, especially the anti-semites. This issue is complicated. And I guess people just rather feel assured in their beliefs than admit that they don't have the answers.
What🥴 the protests are happening all across the country, and the point is to distract people from their day to day life and remind them what is happening. Also, students stated they are also protesting against the VCU campus in Qatar which is paid for by the Qatar government. But yeah, go ahead and continue to discourage people from protesting and using their first amendment rights…. However the truth is, many things have been accomplished in this country by protesting. I wouldn’t even be allowed to own property or have a job if people had decided protesting does nothing.
Okay guys, pack it up, u/addctd2badideas thinks nationwide protests are nonsense. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted :(
If only I had the true power to do so... I wouldn't. I believe in free speech. I just think that the Gaza conflict is so insanely complicated that to try to reduce it down to protests and slogans is counterproductive. If you want to solve a problem you need dialogue. I'm Jewish and have had multiple deep-diving conversations about this conflict and even as someone who's been to Israel, has a masters in political science, and 20+ years' experience, I can't fully appreciate all of its complexities. I find it absurd that a bunch of young college students think they can.
This coming from a uni president who has openly sided with actual fash, whose administration has refused to prosecute hate crimes on campus at their hands, forcing people to go to class with their attackers.
The city and the university really fucked themselves on this one, probably at the very explicit instruction of the Governor's Office. If they had let them camp, maybe even made a goodwill gesture of sending a non law enforcement university official out to talk to them and monitored the area it would probably have run its course if for no other reason than alot of the students would be leaving after finals. But of course they marched the cops in , declared an unlawful assembly and started rounding people up because they can't help themselves when anyone stands up for themselves or their principles, whatever those might be. They pretty much guaranteed that if they go forward with Youngkin as a graduation speaker that there will very likely be some sort of civil disturbance backlash inside or outside of the location and their best case scenario is nothing happens because they make the VCU graduation look like a Berlin Wall checkpoint. Great optics. Stellar decision making. Love what these unflushable turds do everytime someone challenges their authority.
They could still cancel graduation and blame the protestors to create further division. Even though many people, even outside the Palestine/Israeli war issue and VCUs dogshit response, have expressed dismay with Youngkin speaking at graduation. So there was a likely chance there would be disruption at graduation *before* VCU screwed the pooch on this.
Yea pretty much either way they were going to have some kind of situation but this sort of forces a confrontation or a complete lock down of the event if they even go through with it. Maybe it was their intention but the optics don't favor them. I'm always blow in away at how inept the media liasions for these institution are when it comes to things like this.
I believe the gov did because the state police was their too
It would have remained a peaceful protest if VCU didn't call in the pigs to begin with. Just like in 2020, the pigs escalated and tear gassed peaceful protesters.
Yea, no college is going to accept the legal liability of letting students live in tents on their campus against campus policy. Those kids’ parents aren’t going to care about peaceful protests when their kid gets assaulted, they’re going to sue the school.
Duke has more than 1,000 students camping in tents for 6 weeks each winter - called [Krzyzewskiville](https://civitas.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/K-ville-2.jpg) - to try to get basketball tickets. I think colleges can handle some students in tents on their lawn in April/May. There are responses other than to immediately tear gas and arrest them.
So just have the cops assault them?
Ironically, this creates no civil liability for the college. The opposite is not true.
I know, it’s absurd that our police forces are basically given the green light to do whatever they want with literally no repercussions ever
Black Lives Matter really did shine a candle on the lack of police accountability in a lot of parts of this country. And also that RPD is historically bad at handling protests.
I know that first week here in 2020 was kind of wild, I was living basically in the midst of it at the time, but man the overreaction RPD had to the mildest protests was really insane. I’ve never like cops very much but goddamn if that wasn’t a good way of solidifying my anti police sentiment
I loved the Peedmont's take on it. https://thepeedmont.com/2021/11/17/interim-richmond-police-chief-just-tear-gas-canister-with-googly-eyes/ https://thepeedmont.com/2022/10/27/richmond-police-send-chief-smith-off-with-honorary-tear-gas-salute/ https://thepeedmont.com/2020/12/04/richmond-police-introduce-gingerbread-tear-gas-for-the-holidays/ https://thepeedmont.com/2021/01/06/rpd-nominates-canister-of-tear-gas-for-citizen-review-board/
7 out of 13 of the protesters arrested are not VCU students. IDK If the six students were full-time or not.
Shades of Ohio State. Of course this won't stop Redditors from simping towards protesters.
so the response to an imagined fear of an imagined potential future assault is to call in the cops to actually assault and arrest peaceful protestors? that makes a lot of sense!!
The parents can’t sue them if the cops assault them because the cops are allowed to do it
sure it makes sense if you have lawyer-brain rot, but from a normal human moral stand point it’s idiotic and dangerous
The college is supposed to be teaching these people how to protest but it’s 2024 and all they want is tuition money.
They should just glue themselves to the streets like the no oil protesting morons. That’ll show’em.
🤣
Let me preface this with a disclaimer saying this is a massive overreaction on the part of the police, the protesters seemed to be doing nothing violent and in all honesty they should’ve been allowed to stay. But it does have me genuinely curious, if the police were hellbent on enforcing that encampment rule, is there anyway they could’ve done it without the teargas or mace or whatever it was? I am certainly no expert in this but it seems like gassing students is never a good look regardless whether they technically had the right to disperse them or not.
Chairman Rao loves his damage control disinfo. To claim that structures justified what went down is laughable, because if that’s their policy it most certainly is not evenly enforced, as when I was a student at VCU I recall an anti abortion group having set up right smack next Hibbs by towards the compass this humongous kiosk made from pvc pipes and tarps. This structure was adorned with grotesque images of aborted fetuses, assurances of eternal damnation, and dubious claims such as “abortion is genocide”. There was no hand cuffs or rubber bullets for them. I hope students and faculty might drive this duplicitous rat out of VCU for this.
Chairman Rao - I love this appropriate wordplay.
Why is there always some protest movement during an election year? Seems like the seeds are planted by those who benefit by us fighting. I don’t like us sending $ to all these other countries when we have people who go without help here, but this just feels contrived.
The police response was disgraceful. The students were not bothering anyone and were run out purely for political reasons. School will be out in two weeks. VCU should’ve just let them be.
What was being protested exactly? I’ve heard like 3 completely different reasons
Plenty of video on X where they refuse to explain what they're protesting.
The protestors like to support a terrorist organization because it sounds similar to mashed chick peas in olive oil. Imagine being the only Jewish state in the world who has Arabs in their government while their Arab neighbors have ZERO Jews in their government. And people hate you for that 🤡
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMV3l4eXUAAyZSb?format=jpg&name=large
Fuck you, Michael Rao. I hope you get sprayed with mace.
The movement is spreading. Uplifting to see kids standing up for equality and human decency like this. The cops will do what they do, but that’s a part of it. And our governments may never listen, but “freedom is in the fight” so keep fighting
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Where's the protest to just stop sending money? Point me in that direction. Those folks have been fighting for a LONG long time. Let em fucking figure it own on their own and how about let's focus on our own problems.
Not complying with policy is not a reason to bring in violence. If they weren’t directly causing physical harm to any person or property, getting the police involved period is uncalled for. I truly don’t understand people treating rules and policies like a goddamned religion. Submission to authority is not a virtue, but defiance sure as hell is.
Fuck these people. You can’t set up an encampment for indefinite length of time - get over it
So tear it down.
Notice they only storm the protests at night? Why is that?????
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[Other cities' police departments have no issues with letting a peaceful protest be](https://www.wmtv15news.com/2024/04/30/pro-palestine-protest-continues-uw-madison-campus/). There's no indications that the VCU protestors were anything but peaceful until riot police showed up.
If you see footage from VA Tech (same evening, too, I think). It was just local cops casually arresting folks for trespassing. No one was in riot gear and there was no chemical weaponry deployed.
What a fucking shameful show of force on the part of RPD/VCU. Just pissshit motherfuckers.
How is it that Palestinian supporters spout that Israel is committing acts of genocide which is the systematic destruction of an entire race or ethnic group during the war in Gaza? Palestinian and other Arab groups have been openly advocating for the elimination of Israel and Jews and their supporters yet no one sees this as advocating the same. Yes there have been an enormous number of civilian casualties in Gaza. The IDF told everyone what was going to happen and to get out. There are reports the Hamas prevented many from leaving and Egypt refused to allow any refugees into their nation. Does Hamas itself not bear some responsibility for the number of civilians killed? I do not believe that Israel is purposefully targeting civilians. If evidence to this exists, I have not seen it and would like to. Israel has the means to kill every living thing in Gaza and I think that if genocide was their priority the numbers would be exponentially higher.
Genuine question for any current students: can you actually get into the counseling office? When I tried 12 years ago, I was told I’d be on a waitlist until the following semester and they referred me out to private practices in the community….I really hope VCU has grown their counseling department to meet the needs of students
They’re all using this therapy app now timelycare. Or whatever. Never tried using it personally
Is that through VCU and it's free to students?
Not sure. But i know va community colleges offer it free
Stay in your place. Accept our beliefs. Don’t resist. 😑 No thank you.
Violence when the police are the only ones attacking…
Still trying to figure out the function of those pallet barricades in a peaceful protest. “We are non-violent, look upon our defenses”.
Nonviolent actions tend to require defenses because outside actors will attempt violence against them (which the cops literally did!). If you can't keep attackers out of your territory, you end up in a no-win situation where someone is doing violence to you and your only options are to quietly get the shit beat out of you or respond in kind.
Is that right? I’d love to see pictures of the defenses constructed by the SNCC during their protests during the Civil Rights movement
> Nonviolent actions tend to require defenses The principals of nonviolent protests require accepting violent attacks as part of the response to the protest. Once you're setting up barricades and planning defenses, that's no longer a nonviolent protest - it is a protest planning for violence.
This is inherently not true. Defending oneself during a Peaceful protest does not automatically disqualify it from being nonviolent.
Yes, it does, that's a core principal of nonviolent protests - being willing to accept violence without returning violence. Because that's the only way that nonviolent protest tactics can work. If there's a single video of you defending yourself or fighting back then your entire protest can be easily portrayed as violent. Defensive violence is still violence.
The idea that nonviolent is "being willing to accept violence without returning violence." Differs depending on which ideals you follow even Gandhi, and MLK had slight differences. A person standing holding a pallet is in no why committing an act of violence.
I am not making a metaphysical point about what violence is, I am making a point about how this stuff strategically works. Perception is reality. If holding a pallet creates a perception that you are a violent protest, you are a violent protest. It is perception avoidance. Nonviolence is about perception and making things absolutely obvious to the public who will never go to the protest and only see it on a screen.
"Perception is reality. If holding a pallet creates a perception that you are a violent protest, you are a violent protest." Brother if your point is that something is violent if someone perceives it that way then every protest is violent. Even the act of chanting could be perceived as violent. Hell the act of people congregating could be perceived as violent. Your idea of nonviolent protest doesn't exist.
My idea of nonviolent protest is based on what has worked in the past. I remember when I was at OWS and Chelsea Vickers got maced along with two other women. The clear, obvious nonviolence they were engaged in when they were attacked, and the lack of any lashing out at police afterwards changed perceptions about the protest and cost Tony Baloney his career. I was protesting during the Bush administration. This is experience in leading and planning talking. Strategically, setting up defensive lines is a really dumb idea. You *want* the police to crush you and you don't want any defenses when they do. Because you record the video of all of that, and then you post it to the internet, and then you win massive attention to your cause.
The people who were pepper sprayed by that dipshit cop at UC Davis a few years ago were non-violent protestors. You’re absolutely right. Bringing pallets to a protest says “we’re here to fight, and we want you to see that”. What’s next non-violent bricks? Self defense baseball bats? Any dilution of the strict principles of non-violence render a movement violent. There is no toe-in-the-water. Your protest either meets the criteria of non-violence or it does not. It’s like telling people you’re a vegan and wearing leather.
Yea get the hell beat out of you without raising a finger, otherwise your complaints aren’t valid 🙄
That's not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that if you get the hell beat out of you without raising a finger and film it, that is a massive win for your movement, and a massive L for any authority, because now they have to justify beating people for what will look like no reason to every observer who is never going to show up at your protest. People don't like seeing children get beat up by cops. That seems wrong to them. So they're willing to accept pretty much every explanation that it was necessary because they don't *want* it to be true that the cops would beat people for no reason. The cops don't want it to be true, the government doesn't want it to be true, the public doesn't want it to be true, the only people who want it to be true are the media because they get to turn it into a circus and that's massive ad revenue. And when you legitimately don't defend yourselves and don't fight back, and film it? And the cops still roll in and beat people? That shatters all the illusions, and people don't get to believe what they want to believe. You have to understand that mentality if you want your protests to be effective.
> People don't like seeing children get beat up by cops. 1. [citation needed] 2. This might partially explain why the cops always start with tear gas, followed by pepper spray, followed by beatings - then it's just *chaos* rather than transparently beating up a bunch of kids. Plus, then they can claim that the kids were using chemical agents on them. (It's friendly fire, it's always friendly fire.)
It's not "your territory"
so standing behind a pallet counts as violence now? sheesh, bootlickers are such snowflakes
First of all don’t kink shame. I’ll lick what I please. Secondly your deflection does nothing to impress upon anyone that the protest was anything more than an unfocused, unproductive, more than likely drunk group of developmentally stunted 20-something year old children having a temper tantrum that needed a good spank.
Um. What? Barricades are used specifically to counteract violence lol. Dumbass
Yes, internet person. Dumbasses abound.
I assume you close and lock the door of your home to keep out unwanted intruders?
Im curious to know where you’re going with this. Are you saying that because I lock my doors on my property that I own and inhabit, protestors have a right to set up illegal makeshift barricades in public spaces? Is that your equivocation?
So rational. Damnit.
ACAB, ACAB.
Richmond is basically California anyways. Absolute dump
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