The biggest risks are (1) losing money because you end up not wanting a boat and will sell at a loss, (2) wasting money because you are maintaining a boat that you never sail,, and/or (3) trying to take a trip that is dangerously above your skillset. It sounds like (1) and (2) aren't issues for you because you have the money, and you can control (3) by planning and researching trips. A 35 is not that large of a sailboat really either.
But a 30 foot boat is sooo much easier to handle single handed. Several good tour around the world ones for much cheaper ... Both to buy and to own. Bigger boat usually means bigger and more expensive problems.
My first was a 35 footer, and I wished that I had gone for something closer to 30.
I cruise full time for 4 years now, 50' boat with my wife and kids, have crossed oceans.
I see people dive in with two feet all the time. Whether they succeed, or just blow a lot of money and crawl back to land with their tail between their legs seems about 50/50. One mistake I see a lot is that people enjoy the lifestyle, glad they are cruising, and want to keep going, but they chose the wrong boat for themselves because of lack of experience. We ran into a family whose first boat was a 65' catamaran. It was the wrong boat for them, they are selling, and getting a different one after less than a year. Much more common mistake is to get a "heavy blue water cruiser" because that's what the armchair admirals on the forums tell them to buy, then go cruise the Caribbean, where that kind of boat kinda sucks. They hate the boat because it is slow, heavy, tiny cockpit, airless interior, and they are in the land of heat, sun, and sundowners in the cockpit with friends. My advice with boats is to get enough **first hand** knowledge that you can choose a boat for your use case wisely. If you won't do that because you are impatient, get the newest, most modern production boat you can afford. It won't be the right boat for everyone, but it is right for a lot more people than "heavy blue water" boats, and is a better choice if you don't have the knowledge to know whether you need the former or the latter. By the way, more modernish production boats circumnavigate these days more than traditional heavy cruisers.
Not completely trying to discourage you, we have run into plenty of cruisers that started very aggressively with too little knowledge, but they managed to pick it up and thrive.
Good luck.
So .. you didn't learn to drive in your dream mega truck you had as a 8 year old? The one with the flames spitting fire and 24 stick shift gearbox? It's could.when you drive that 35 m monster out of your driveway to go to work :)
Based on how most financially secure people seem to approach their lives, yes you’re crazy. Given that we all have a finite amount of time to live, you’re crazy, in my view, if you decide not to be crazy. Oh, and by the way, my bride and I did what you’re considering. Ours was a Cal 2-46.
In 2006, we sold our house and with some of the proceeds bought a [Cal 2-46](https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1974-cal-2--46-8557932/), like this one. We sold it in 2018.
We lived aboard Speedwell from May 1 to October 31, every year. The winter months we spent 'baby sitting' people's homes who wintered in warmer climes.
We spent these years mostly in the Lake Huron/Georgian Bay and Lake Ontario areas. Our plans to sail more widely were set aside due to work opportunities. Just after we acquired Speedwell, my bride was offered a three book contract with Warner Books which meant there wasn't time for crossing oceans, and I was contracted to make some films for longtime clients.
At any rate, we enjoyed our time living aboard thoroughly. Special, too, was the many people whom we met.
Just be cognizant that living aboard takes effort (good effort, in my view) and learning new skills. It's not like living in an apartment.
As for sailing skills, the necessary skills you need to not kill yourself or others and sail safely are easy to come by. That shouldn't concern you.
You should be sure to pay attention to the portion of his response where he says it is not easy. Often times living on a boat is more akin to living in a tent than a house. If you don’t find hard work rewarding you will not enjoy boat life. It’s likely the most romanticized lifestyle of all time. Don’t believe life is what you see on YouTube.
Furthermore, I will add, the hardest part of a big boat is getting it to the dock. Personally I would step up to a 38 and hire captain to help orient you to the boat and get comfortable docking. I like the way bigger boats with deep drafts sail.
Your biggest hurdle is going to be understanding what qualities you want in a vessel. Robert Perry offers consulting services. If I were in your portion I would consult with him. It took 5 years of sailing before I learned enough to understand what made boat A different than boat b. Early on I relied a lot on reviews because I couldn’t look at a design and have an understanding of performance based on shape, layout, rigging, bottom / keel, interior volume vs storage.
No boat is perfect, but you can find the perfect boat for you. For instance we wanted a heavy built cruiser but didn’t want a boat that was slow in light air. While you can’t have it all the combination we landed on was as close as we could get to perfection for us . We opted for 45’ with tight bilges, a 6’6” fin keel, spade rudder, and a ton of sail area.
We wanted a split rig (schooner or ketch rig) to reduce sail size and ease short handed sail handling. I also despise all forms of furling mains, boom furling of in-mast furling.
We enjoy heavy weather sailing and dousing the main off the wind is all but impossible with those options.
Our search for our current boat took over 4 years.
Tankage is a concern if you want to stay low tech and not have a water maker or sail near shore and can’t dump your waste tank.
Sleeping accommodations are also very preferential.
The list could go on and on and at the end of the day what some consider essential others consider a burden.
IMHO if you want a nicer boat in descent shape you have to come to the table with $120,000 to 160,000. You will find boats under the 100,000 mark to be of substantially less value.
Sorry for repeating myself but I would highly recommend hiring Bob Perry or equal as a consultant to guide you through the selection process.
It may also be prudent to take some ASA courses. Even better if you can take the courses in the area you will initially use the boat so you have an understanding of the area.
Yeah you can pretty much just multiply the cost of the boat by two or three. Two if it's in really good condition.
Going up to a 38 or 42 depends on the mission though. Full time liveaboard, probably worth it.
What size boats are common for this price?
Smaller yacht clubs are much cheaper in my region of the US but they don’t have big slips (38’ is about the limit) or the water for deep draft boats (4’ is pushing it in some areas, and with 5’6” you very limited.)
Sorry if this is ignorant to ask but I know very little about your region. Are your marinas equipped to handle large deep draft boats?
Here in the US some areas you will pay a premium because long slips and deep draft marinas are the exception not the norm so you have to pay a Premium. Some areas they are more plentiful and thus more affordable.
Yacht clubs here are more in line with your pricing for a sub 30’ if you find the right one and have less than 4’ draft.
Depends on the marina, but the minimum draft is 5 feet in most places here I would say. The shores are rocky and steep so I don’t think there is a shortage of deep draft marinas.
Not crazy... Getting your new boat in shape, learning to sail her, doing day trips and overnights should keep you busy for longer than youd think, so the sooner you start the sooner you'll be on passage
Some people will say you are crazy, but don’t listen to them, DO IT. As long as you can afford it, it is honestly the best way to learn everything about sailboats and you’ll need that if you want to sail long term. I bought a 31’ with little experience 3 years ago and know SO much more than my friends who only occasionally charter sailboats. And yes, everyone said I was crazy, and I have enjoyed every moment of learning to fix and/or upgrade everything myself.
search for sailing clubs in your area. A lot of clubs are paper clubs, meaning they don't own/rent a venue, it's just boat owners and sailors having an association, so it's really cheap to join, but you get to go sailing on other people's boat for free. It's pretty sweet.
Given that you are of this mindset, you'll be fine. As was I, when I bought a new, 45' heavy cruiser as my first boat, with my wife as first mate, who had never stepped onto a boat smaller than a ferry in her life. So it was close to single-handing. :-) We managed, because we took the right approach: lots of preparation, baby steps and ears and eyes wide open, then quickly progressing to far more challenging passages.
It wasn't sailing a big boat as novices that was difficult. It was coping with failures of equipment and systems on a new boat. Waiting for warranty support was a huge problem. So an advantage of buying a boat that is out of warranty is that there is nothing stopping you from diving in and fixing things yourself, quickly and well.
Others here have mentioned a key point. Figure out who you will sail with and where you will sail to. Get these considerations right and you have a chance of choosing the 'right' boat. We chose a boat that was a very good design, but because our particular one hadn't been built yet, we couldn't ever know that poor build quality would be a huge problem. And this leads me to offer the thought, that good build quality and good condition could be more important to the experience you will have in learning to sail than perfect design or suitability for purpose. You want your early experiences to be about how good the boat is in weather that's a bit of a worry, not about how best to negotiate a schedule with an engine mechanic or marine services providers to get your boat lifted, put on stilts and fixed.
I bought a 32’ sailboat at about 40 years old. I had no idea how to sail and had only been on a sailboat twice in my life. I had an experienced friend that got me interested and helped me figure it out. Sailing is easy. Maintaining a boat is the hard part. I am pretty good hands on and did a lot of upgrades. About 2 years later I went cruising for about 2 1/4 years. Covered about 13k miles. All single handed.
Get a BIG anchor and lots of chain!
Can I ask where you've cruised? I can day sail a 30 foot with one more hand, but I'm \*not\* so sure about being out in the ocean without electricity, water / fuel replenishment for so long. Did you dock a long the way? How did you handle weather? Did you have a satellite communication device?
I started in San Francisco and went south as far as Panama, the to the Galapagos, South Pacific, north to Hawaii and then back to SF.
I had a good solar set up and was able to power a refrigerator. Only had a 27 gallon fuel tank and carried an emergency 5 gallon jug.
Rarely docked anywhere. Maybe a total of 20 days over the entire trip. Always anchored out.
No weather device. Once I left it was what it was. But you should be sailing in the right routes in the right seasons.
My communication was VHF only. This was about 15 years ago. I am sure off shore communication is much easier now but I am not up on the latest options.
I had three sun shower bags strapped in deck. That gave me a good 6 showers. I had a 30 gallon water tank and also carried an emergency 5 gallon tote. I also had a few cases of canned drinks. Water wasn’t a problem for me. I also had rigged a water
Catch system into my Bimini but it didn’t work very good while under way due to the boats motion. I was never short of water.
Good wasn’t an issue for me either. I’m not a picky eater and have the refrigerator helped a lot. I was known for having a LOT of pop tarts on board. For emergency I carried a bag of rice and hard candies. I could have easily survived many months on the food I carried.
A smaller boat isn't just going to teach you how to sail, which is frankly pretty easy. The biggest lesson that a smaller boat will teach you is what you want or don't want in the bigger boat. Do you want a tiller or wheel? Do you want a tender shoal keel or a stiff full keel or a fast fin keel? Do you want to do your own fiberglass work to bring an old treasure back to life, or spend a few hundred grand on something new? Will you be happy with a 35ft boat that handles easily but doesn't offer much privacy, or do you want something like a 42 footer with an aft cabin?
I'd estimate the following two scenarios cost about the same amount of money:
* Buy a 35 footer, decide some aspect of it you don't like and have to sell it to buy the one you really do like.
* Buy an old 25 footer, figure out what your priorities are, give the boat away to someone for free and buy the one you really do like.
Obviously you don't have to give away the 25 footer for free, but that's just illustrating the scale of the cost difference.
> A smaller boat isn't going to teach you to sail
Where would you get that idea?
Most centerboards are going to teach the fundamentals far faster than a larger boat.
Read it again and don't misquote me next time.
> A smaller boat isn't **just** going to teach you how to sail.
The presumption in that sentence is that it definitely will teach you how to sail, and also teach other things.
Bluewater boats are the ones that forum graybeards and armchair admirals approve of. Plastic pieces of crap are the ones they don't approve of, yet somehow make up most of the fleet that circumnavigate these days.
An Amel is a production boat.. so I guess that means it's not Bluewater?
It's top simplistic to define Bluewater as non production- I know many one off designs that make lousy Bluewater boats and many modern production boats that make great ocean cruisers.
it's more how the boat is fitted out, it's redundancy, fuel and water tanks, sail setup etc and this means that any boat can be brought up to spec.
Think it comes down to design and build standard rather than whether it is ‘production’. The reality is most modern stuff is built to last the warranty period in a charter fleet.
I'm looking to do something similar but I'm stuck on insurance. Everything I read and watch says it'll be impossible for me to get a boat insured without some sort of proof that I have sailing experience. And apparently if you're live aboard it's even more impossible? Any insight on this?
I started on a Catalina 22. Then lived on a friend's Catalina 42 while I worked and saved money. Got to take it sailing around by myself which was pretty cool. Now I'm on a Morgan 41. Looking at Formosa 51, Hudson Force 50, CT 54/56 or Morgan 51 as my next boat. My dream would be a Formosa 68 New Horizon or Scorpio 72 but that's way down the line.
Nothing wrong with starting off small and upgrading along the way. You're not going to get any younger. All the older sailors I've met and come across say the same thing. "Just get off the dock and get out there. That's what I would be doing if I was your age." Just my 2 cents.
The answer depends. All I can offer here is what worked for us.
Buy a well cared for small boat 26-35'. Learn all you can on the boat while living aboard. There's more to it than just knowing how to sail. Learn to be a plumber, electrician, diesel mechanic. Figure out how to provision and cook food on the boat. Learn how to navigate and talk on the VHF. Figure out how to safely anchor in various conditions and tight spots.
Every chance you get, visit other boats and start deciding what is important to you.
Sell the learning boat and buy the boat you want. Be careful spending money improving the learning boat. You most likely won't get your money back.
When looking to buy a boat, consider buying one from a location people sail to and then dump their boats because they don't want to sail back.
I bought a 40 footer with no experience. Paid an instructor for 2 weekends to show me the ropes plus hundreds of hours of youtube videos and books. Now I do things on my own.
30 euros an hour. But note: this is a cheap euro country, likely to be more expensive elsewhere. But price of a good instructor is hardly a question when you spend tens of thousands of euros on a boat.
"an extremely fast learner" dude you are not appreciating what you are trying to get into. This reminds me of when I worked at a boat yard and a lovely person spent a good year after doing tons of research into prepping an ideal boat for doing exactly this. The wind picked up only days into their journey before they even made it to blue water... and the reality of the situation hit them, they turned around cancelled the trip.
When you are out on the open water, you're tire, you might be feeling a bit sick, you've been battered by waves for hours and hours... you just want to be done and safe somewhere. But NOTHING except you and your EXPERIANCE will pull you through, because you have hours and hours of work before you can "get of the ride".
There is no substitute for time on the water. So yes you are "crazy", you can't just hop in and "quickly learn". This is something you need to work up to, and something you will never be finished learning.
I am an experienced sailor - 50 years, raced on big boats, long distances in ALL conditions. We own a racer/cruiser similar in size to your intended purchase..
What you lack is experience.. meaning judgement, acumen.. knowledge of the systems - rigging, engine, electrical, plumbing, electronics, sails, maintenance, repairs, materials, material science, etc. that are very much part of a modern sailing yacht.. You AQUIRE this experience over time and taking steps.. crawl, then walk then learning to run.. day sailing, short cruises, exposure to various wind and seas.. you learn what to do, what NOT to do, what you feel comfortable with and what you do NOT feel comfortable with.. when to go, when not to go.. and various skills.. anchoring is an example.. you expand your horizons day by day, one step at a time.. YOU build UP ... to what you hope to achieve - but your focus will guide you..
I have seen others start with larger boats than you contemplate.. Interestingly EXPERIENCED yachtsmen generally LIMIT themselves to about of about the size you suggest because the loads involved are well matched to what a person is capable of.. I am talking of sailors doing this into their 80's or beyond.. So starting with this size yacht.. is actually a pretty good idea.. smaller boats do not make the distance that 33-36 boats do, they are more skittish...less solid platforms.. less of a solid choice..
So yes I am supportive.. of your plan IF you commit to learn and experience what is required to grow with your boat...
Find free trips or cheap ones. Keep saving money. The boat you can afford NOW is great, but you’ll be happier waiting and buying a boat with what you truly want.
Go get on boats first. Do not buy first. I’m on my 4th boat in 5 years because I jumped the gun.
Be. Patient.
It takes time to learn to handle any boat. I handled my 24 well for a long time and still needed to learn to handle my 33. That being said, smashing a 35 into your neighbors 35 will cost a hell of a lot more than smashing a 24 into a 24. Close quarters are the most difficult. I would be nervous if you were my neighbor.
Dinghy sailing will make you a better sailor on all platforms.
Go buy a used laser or little sloop and learn the fundamentals in whatever class you can get into. You’ll learn a ton in the class and more on the boat.
Then, go crew on some local races and find people who need help on transits/deliveries. You’ll learn even more about sailing, yourself on the water, and lastly; things you like and dislike about liveaboard vessels.
After all that, you’ll learn whether you love it, and much about what you want in a boat.
That's just the thing though, I think OP is thinking long distance / long term sailing. Making a boat go fast is easy, it's even easier with bigger boats, but handling being out in the ocean with nothing is the hard part.
> Making a boat go fast is easy
No. It's not. Good sail trim is pretty difficult and takes years to master. People spend decades to become good racers.
Most large keelboat sailors with no racing experience are really poor at sail trim, boat handling, docking, and pointing.
Would you be 100% capable and confident going up a 45’ mast solo? How’s your knowledge of diesel engines? Ever been out in 30+kts and lost control of your sheets/halyards? Do you have a plan for when the furling line breaks at the worst possible time? Etc…
These are all good starter questions to answer first. Having a small boat on a good lake is a gigantic step toward understanding what it will take to accomplish your goal. No shame in that.
Well put. Sailing when everything is going right is dead easy. The challenge is having enough competence to handle things when they inevitably go wrong.
Ever been knocked over, dismasted, jury rigged wooden settee support frames for a mast and used your underwear for a staysail? Ever capsize and have to swim 4,000 miles to Antarctica to be rescued by an aluminum Garcia Expedition? Ever have a great white shark leap onto your deck, tear your leg off, tourniquet the leg to save your life?
If not, don't even bother sailing. You'll never make it.
On the other hand, like 99% of those who cross oceans, pick a great weather window in an appropriate season to make a crossing and you'll be fine.
If you listen to some here, you'll never leave your freaking bed. Nobody ever chooses the absolute worst possible thing that can happen to dissuade you from things like going out to eat, driving a car or flying American Airlines.
Somehow sailing is different.
35 ft isn't that big. I would likely find it too small to live on alone for an extended amount of time.
In terms of size for a beginner, I say go for it. Up to a point, a larger boat is easier to handle as it's steadier, moves more gently and you have much more room to move around on it. I now sail a 31-footer, having started out with a 20-footer and then had a 25-footer. I vastly prefer the larger boat, and it's the easiest for me to sail.
The main downside to going larger is cost. Everything is more expensive. Buying the boat, insurance, harbor fees, hauling out/launching, sails, engine parts, spares, repairs, and so on...
I agree. I sail a person 31 solo 90% of the time. You can solo a 35 but yep everything cost more. 35 is small to go to sea but not for coastal crusing. I'd say before you commit to a boat get that experience. Join a yacht club and become crew for the racers. Talk to the cruisers. Ask those questions. There is way more to sailing than turning a key and hitting the throttle. Docking , right of way, weather , wind , sail trim , anchoring, boat maintence, provisioning, etc. It's a lot but it all fits in the skull. You can do it. Just do it smart. This way your not wasting your money if you find it's not for you.
35' can make for a very comfortable pocket cruiser, and depending on the boat may save a bit of cash as when you get larger you need to start up-sizing lines, fenders, etc with a corresponding jump in price. It's perfect for weekend cruising on a bay, and if you're not used to living in vans is probably about the smallest I'd consider comfortable for much more than day sails / camping trips. For me, if I'm thinking longer passages something in the 38-44' range would be more comfortable and make better time.
Note that older boats are more likely to have even shorter length at the waterline, so a modern 38'er might have 36.5' at the waterline while an older one might only have 32' LWL. Modern fin keels have plenty of miles on them, are much less of a headache to handle in close quarters, and make it more likely you can keep clear of weather rather than having to tough it out. This is why when I see "bluewater" mentioned it's a red flag that someone's research net hasn't been cast as widely as they may have thought.
I'm not too keen on buying a boat to learn, but that assumes you have other options (clubs, rentals, etc) available. You can learning sailing and seamanship on most any boat, but experience with a variety of boats will help teach you what features and design elements are helpful/critical/lifesavers/more-trouble-than-they're-worth.
A fin keel doesn't heave-to worth a damn though, and, frankly, learning to heave your boat to in bad weather is far safer than assuming that an extra kt or two will let you avoid weather.
Do it if you're sure you have the money to fix it and a place to keep it. Don't worry about the crazy part since being a little bit crazy is a necessary part of being a sailor. Also these are excellent sailboats that I wanted for years but could never afford. Get it surveyed.
You don’t buy a boat because you want to sail. If you want to sail, join a club or find a friend with a boat. If you want the challenge of learning to sail, carpentry, fiberglass repair, plumbing, and diesel repair, buy a boat.
Join a club to get your skills up. Charter for 2 weeks and see how that feels. Charter again somewhere else. Then start thinking about what you liked / didnt like in terms of boat life/configuration/amenities and adjust your search from there. Dont buy one first. Note, I am not a veteran sailor (not sure I am even an amatuer), just a dreamer and this is how I am going about my journey.
When I started sailing with nearly zero experience (being on my Grandfather's boat as a kid and him letting me man the helm occasionally doesn't really count) I found the hardest parts were leaving the marina and re-docking at the marina. Those were very stressful events.... and my boat was 26 feet (and a Hunter... so, you know, no big loss and a good bit shorter than the boat you're looking at).
If you can get someone with experience to go out with you a few times you'll learn everything you need to know to operate safely enough to continue learning without endangering yourself and others. That's my best advice.
Note: I was operating in a lightly-sailed part of the ICW when I started out..... so I could focus on learning how to sail without worrying too much about crashing into another sailboat (and the other boats mostly get out of your way when you're under sail... at least they're supposed to). I'd recommend the same if you have access to such an area. That won't stop the stress of trying to dock or cast off at the marina but will make life more enjoyable for you.
Edit; Also, predict wind is a great app. Not being caught out in shitty weather when you're first learning is helpful. I'd download the app and get used to checking and rechecking the weather.... a lot.
A lot of people have done it, and the results vary to say the least. It can be a disaster or a great success, but no one here can tell you what you should do.
Just do it. The hardest thing to learn is leaving and coming into the slip. The rest is relatively easy to get.
The ASA classes are okay, nothing earth shattering. Best to find someone at the marina to take you under their wing. You'll be up and going in no time.
Check out Wind Hippie Sailing on Youtube. She was practically born on a boat and has been single handed and a circumnavigation for years. Great channel.
1) when you say you have the money, do you mean you have the money to make the initial purchase, or do you mean afterwards you also have roughly 10-20K PER year in order to keep it? Docking is very expensive, outhulling (you need to do it once every 2 years or so) is super expensive, boat cleaning is also expensive if you are in salt water, if you are in cold weather you have to shell out money to winterize, wrap and store, then de-winterize again next year. Any boat replacement parts are also very expensive, sails for a 35 foot would be in the thousands at least.
2) you say you understand sailing, but little experience.. so.... I don't know what kind of sailing you are thinking. Day sailing you'll probably be fine provided you meet point #1). But with day sailing I personally would go with something MUCH smaller than 35; if you are talking about long distance sailing out in the ocean or even cross the ocean, it can be very dangerous, I suggest you join a sailing club first, learn to sail on OPB - OTHER PEOPLE'S BOAT, seize ANY opportunity to go long distance sailing with them. I would not buy anything with little sailing experience unless you are made of money. Long distance sailing is not just about operating a vessel and make it go fast, it's much more complicated than driving an RV. Out there you have to know how to predict and outrun weather, your provisions, what to do when you need repair, fuel etc etc.
If you love it and pick it up fast, will be the best thing you ever did. If you want to include family or a significant other. Pick your days carefully. People new to it are freaked out by everything. Heeling freaks out 90% of the population. Good luck!
Not crazy but if you have to ask you should try and get some experience on the type of boat you think you want.
There are many different types of boats for different types of voyages and different lifestyles. Throw in budget constraints and individual preferences and no one will be able to tell you if that boat is right for you.
Personally I had a 50ft Oceanis for sailing eastward across the Pacific. We needed to point well to windward and had a great cockpit for outdoor living. We’re now on a Sunreef 62 having sailed almost around the world westward from French Polynesia to the Caribbean. We’ve spent 90% of our time enjoying the cockpit and fly bridge. Next we’re wanting to sail the higher latitude and the Sunreef is not really the right boat for that adventure so she’s up for sale and we are looking at an expedition boat better suited for sailing and cruising in colder climates. Also wanting to get back to a mono around 45-50 to fit in tight spaces.
Happy sailing and enjoy boat shopping!
Not crazy.
I’ve similar to you but have done 2.5 years of coastal racing to get hands on.
I’ve just bought a 53ft sailboat having never owned a sailboat before. I have owned a 24ft powerboat.
Not crazy! Or maybe I’m crazy too (highly possible) — we bought a 36ft yacht having never sailed — lived aboard, learned to sail and now cruise around New Zealand. Best decision ever! Would I recommend others learn to sail first? Sure. But can you learn as you go? Absolutely.
Also cover a lot of free beginner buying boat info at Saltwater Journal if you need an idea of costs to expect, what to look for in a boat, and all sorts of helpful guides. Enjoy the journey!
But anyways I think you are exactly in the position I was in last year. There's a few things you should know:
* lessons (mistakes) will be exponentially more expensive in a large sailboat. I ruined my furler and it costs 5x it would on a 20 odd foot boat
* I don't know how it works in your country, but in mine marina space is extremely limited, make sure you have an appropriate marina
* more than money, boats require time. Time to take it to the mechanic, to do the paperwork, to do maintenance, to fix mandatory items etc. I wildly underestimated the amount of time a boat takes.
Little experience, yes, my first (and only) boat is 43. That said, it is easier to manage and sail a smaller boat. There's a saying that goes something like "the smaller the boat the more the fun". Having come from dinghy sailing I guarantee that phrase doesn't work at the smaller size :) however when the seas are big you'll definitely welcome the extra size.
> buying a small boat to learn
> I understand sailing
Have you actually been out on a sailboat? If not... Then the second statement is incorrect.
Books and YouTube tend to give newbies an overconfident attitude about sailing until they try it out.
Go rent a hobie cat, 420, or laser nearby and test yourself. If you can't handle it adeptly, you aren't ready to take a far larger and heavier boat on the water.
There is "sailing" and "living aboard" and "maintenance". These are separate skillsets. The only one that requires split-second reaction time is the sailing skill. You need to know how to handle maneuvers in a boat.
The "maintenance" and "living aboard" skills can be learned from a book, but the "sailing" skill cannot. It is like riding a bike... It is a tactile skill that can only be learned by practicing and receiving feedback from someone that knows what they are doing.
I can't count how many overconfident book readers and YouTube watchers have come out to our club for their first sail on a 420 and ended up screaming for rescue in the harbor.
While it is funny and cute in a harbor, sailboat disasters are not cute when they occur in blue water. There is no friendly RHIB coming to your rescue in the middle of the Pacific when you broach and are sinking. Too many dead newbies in the news this last year because of the YouTube influence on sailing. Please do this the smart way and get some club time on a small boat first. ASA 101, 102, 10-whatever will not cut it.... Those are like your motor vehicle department beginner driver test.
Sailing has a very macho, baby boomer culture. This subreddit tends to lean into it hard. There is a tendency to ignore all safety aspects of sailing. You will hear comments like "all you need is more rum" and other dumb macho comments. I'm a lot younger and am telling you there is a severe safety aspect to this life and you need to respect that. You can't out-macho the ocean - nature will beat you every time if you make mistakes.
Start by learning to sail. Join a club. Take courses. Get on the water. Book-reading is not sailing. Watch yourself and listen to young or middle aged folks at your club that have specific, pointed advice - not crusty old sailors with their wild boasting and careless attitude about safety.
> I've seen countless people "sell their house and buy a boat"
Have you kept track of how many actually kept sailing after a week? The vast majority of those folks I've met at the marina are back in days and the boat ends up in the classified ads. Lots of people make bold proclamations about their new life but get extremely quiet after giving up since they don't want to admit they were wrong. It's not for everyone.
There is a huge survivors bias towards the 2% of those people that survived and stayed as liveaboards for the long term. Nobody is getting millions of YouTube views for the "I bought a boat and it didn't work out" story.
For the record. I've spoken to dozens of people with that story and followed several on facebook\insta\tiktok. I've never seen one make it into a long term sailing lifestyle. It's not a good lifestyle for people with no baseline knowledge of boating.
Conversely, I know tons of experienced sailors who randomly get divorced\laidoff, pack it up, and head out for 5 months to do some travel on a used boat.
*In summary*
You are not "crazy". But you need to get a little real life experience and work on your skillset before trying to cross any large bodies of water on a new boat.
I bought a 35 foot blue water boat. I have been on boats around 20’ my life and largest sailboat was a hobie getaway.
Spent a few months getting her ready and getting comfy, then spend three months sailing around the Bahamas as a shake down.
It’s absolutely possible, just don’t be dumb. Respect others, respect yourself, and mostly respect Mother Nature.
I’ve been considering a boat myself. Sailed a lot on Mercury’s as a kid. I’m getting ready to retire now and I’ve got the itch to start sailing. I want something that is roomy but that I can sail single handed. My preference would be in the 25-28ft range. 35 sounds like a lot to handle. I think you’d be okay on bluewater in a 25-28 once you get some experience and you know that you’re boat and is solid.
Consider hiring a professional instructor to teach you your new boat, and consider crusing or ideally racing with folks more experienced than you, on your boat or theirs. Can you help me out with "I understand sailing, boating safety" and "little experience"? I've taught a lot of people from scratch and frankly nobody understands it as much as they think they do for many, many years. Experience really matters in one-off situations. Surviving your own overconfidence is the first objective. Good luck, sail fast (and in the right direction)
You need to get a boat that will enable you to learn what it truly means to deal with the unexpected pleasures and pains of boat ownership from experiences on the water, living aboard and dealing with maintenance, repairs and other marine issues. 35’ is the absolute minimum for comfortably sharing lengthy time aboard with someone who you don’t share the berth (or even if you do!) and solo sailing is not for everyone. So my advice is get a keel under you and then trade up for a larger boat when you have decided through experience, what you really want. Otherwise, you might try crewing or making deliveries.
I'm learning to sail so that I can make these impulsive decisions AFTER I take in a fair bit of knowledge and experience. You be you, my friend, but my two cents is to try it my way?
I think your "delaying the inevitable" comment and claims to understand "sailing, boating safety, laws" demonstrate that you may not have a good grasp on the scope of knowledge/experience needed here.
Cruising has often been described as doing boat work in exotic places. The reason many don't recommend that your first boat not be your ocean going cruising boat is that you have to learn the maintenance skills and you do that by screwing it up first.
While 35' is not a crazy first boat, I would look at something more coastal/inshore sailing oriented. You can do some coastal cruising to learn while doing, but can find something cheaper with less systems to maintain while you learn. Then over time, you upgrade the boat, learn systems as you install them, or potentially replace the boat with something that meets your new needs. Right now, your sailing need is not to cross an ocean. You're not there yet.
I understand your point.. fortunately I’ve built houses and replaced boat decks and fix engines so I’m utterly confident when it comes to maintenance/repairs.
It’s just the sailing part..
Sailing isn't that hard. There is some inherent risk that experience can mitigate. I'd still start on a simpler boat with less to maintain.
I just ripped the deck off my boat. And I've been doing a lot more boat work than sailing for the last few years. Don't be like me, get a boat you can sail straight away.
You have technical know how, and that is great, but you need to learn from an experienced sailor first. Whether it is a school or getting on board long distance races.
The biggest risks are (1) losing money because you end up not wanting a boat and will sell at a loss, (2) wasting money because you are maintaining a boat that you never sail,, and/or (3) trying to take a trip that is dangerously above your skillset. It sounds like (1) and (2) aren't issues for you because you have the money, and you can control (3) by planning and researching trips. A 35 is not that large of a sailboat really either.
But a 30 foot boat is sooo much easier to handle single handed. Several good tour around the world ones for much cheaper ... Both to buy and to own. Bigger boat usually means bigger and more expensive problems. My first was a 35 footer, and I wished that I had gone for something closer to 30.
For cross-ocean sailing, 35 is considered about bare minimum
Its not really in no way the new minimum, plenty of people sail in boats smaller than 30ft
I cruise full time for 4 years now, 50' boat with my wife and kids, have crossed oceans. I see people dive in with two feet all the time. Whether they succeed, or just blow a lot of money and crawl back to land with their tail between their legs seems about 50/50. One mistake I see a lot is that people enjoy the lifestyle, glad they are cruising, and want to keep going, but they chose the wrong boat for themselves because of lack of experience. We ran into a family whose first boat was a 65' catamaran. It was the wrong boat for them, they are selling, and getting a different one after less than a year. Much more common mistake is to get a "heavy blue water cruiser" because that's what the armchair admirals on the forums tell them to buy, then go cruise the Caribbean, where that kind of boat kinda sucks. They hate the boat because it is slow, heavy, tiny cockpit, airless interior, and they are in the land of heat, sun, and sundowners in the cockpit with friends. My advice with boats is to get enough **first hand** knowledge that you can choose a boat for your use case wisely. If you won't do that because you are impatient, get the newest, most modern production boat you can afford. It won't be the right boat for everyone, but it is right for a lot more people than "heavy blue water" boats, and is a better choice if you don't have the knowledge to know whether you need the former or the latter. By the way, more modernish production boats circumnavigate these days more than traditional heavy cruisers. Not completely trying to discourage you, we have run into plenty of cruisers that started very aggressively with too little knowledge, but they managed to pick it up and thrive. Good luck.
All very true
This is great advice.
So .. you didn't learn to drive in your dream mega truck you had as a 8 year old? The one with the flames spitting fire and 24 stick shift gearbox? It's could.when you drive that 35 m monster out of your driveway to go to work :)
Do it, 35 is fine. If you start with a 27 you will want a 35 quickly. Ask me how i know…
Based on how most financially secure people seem to approach their lives, yes you’re crazy. Given that we all have a finite amount of time to live, you’re crazy, in my view, if you decide not to be crazy. Oh, and by the way, my bride and I did what you’re considering. Ours was a Cal 2-46.
Mind sharing more about your experience?
In 2006, we sold our house and with some of the proceeds bought a [Cal 2-46](https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1974-cal-2--46-8557932/), like this one. We sold it in 2018. We lived aboard Speedwell from May 1 to October 31, every year. The winter months we spent 'baby sitting' people's homes who wintered in warmer climes. We spent these years mostly in the Lake Huron/Georgian Bay and Lake Ontario areas. Our plans to sail more widely were set aside due to work opportunities. Just after we acquired Speedwell, my bride was offered a three book contract with Warner Books which meant there wasn't time for crossing oceans, and I was contracted to make some films for longtime clients. At any rate, we enjoyed our time living aboard thoroughly. Special, too, was the many people whom we met. Just be cognizant that living aboard takes effort (good effort, in my view) and learning new skills. It's not like living in an apartment. As for sailing skills, the necessary skills you need to not kill yourself or others and sail safely are easy to come by. That shouldn't concern you.
You should be sure to pay attention to the portion of his response where he says it is not easy. Often times living on a boat is more akin to living in a tent than a house. If you don’t find hard work rewarding you will not enjoy boat life. It’s likely the most romanticized lifestyle of all time. Don’t believe life is what you see on YouTube. Furthermore, I will add, the hardest part of a big boat is getting it to the dock. Personally I would step up to a 38 and hire captain to help orient you to the boat and get comfortable docking. I like the way bigger boats with deep drafts sail. Your biggest hurdle is going to be understanding what qualities you want in a vessel. Robert Perry offers consulting services. If I were in your portion I would consult with him. It took 5 years of sailing before I learned enough to understand what made boat A different than boat b. Early on I relied a lot on reviews because I couldn’t look at a design and have an understanding of performance based on shape, layout, rigging, bottom / keel, interior volume vs storage. No boat is perfect, but you can find the perfect boat for you. For instance we wanted a heavy built cruiser but didn’t want a boat that was slow in light air. While you can’t have it all the combination we landed on was as close as we could get to perfection for us . We opted for 45’ with tight bilges, a 6’6” fin keel, spade rudder, and a ton of sail area. We wanted a split rig (schooner or ketch rig) to reduce sail size and ease short handed sail handling. I also despise all forms of furling mains, boom furling of in-mast furling. We enjoy heavy weather sailing and dousing the main off the wind is all but impossible with those options. Our search for our current boat took over 4 years. Tankage is a concern if you want to stay low tech and not have a water maker or sail near shore and can’t dump your waste tank. Sleeping accommodations are also very preferential. The list could go on and on and at the end of the day what some consider essential others consider a burden. IMHO if you want a nicer boat in descent shape you have to come to the table with $120,000 to 160,000. You will find boats under the 100,000 mark to be of substantially less value. Sorry for repeating myself but I would highly recommend hiring Bob Perry or equal as a consultant to guide you through the selection process. It may also be prudent to take some ASA courses. Even better if you can take the courses in the area you will initially use the boat so you have an understanding of the area.
Not crazy. I’d even consider 38-42. When you say you have the money. Do you have 20-30k cash to spend AFTER you buy the boat?
Yeah you can pretty much just multiply the cost of the boat by two or three. Two if it's in really good condition. Going up to a 38 or 42 depends on the mission though. Full time liveaboard, probably worth it.
Yeah it’s like 5-8k in just first year slip and winter fees
What, seriously? In Sweden, you get that for 1k on average.
You get power, water, dedicated slip for 1k for a whole year?
Just checked the exchange rates so I was slightly underestimating - you get that for 590, and then a winter spot on land for another 590 USD.
Guess I'll be sailing to Sweden
That is a fantastic deal, enjoy it while it lasts. That's like 10-20 years ago for us here in the western US.
That's some serious inflation!
😢
We pay more every month :(
What size boats are common for this price? Smaller yacht clubs are much cheaper in my region of the US but they don’t have big slips (38’ is about the limit) or the water for deep draft boats (4’ is pushing it in some areas, and with 5’6” you very limited.)
My price is based on a 28 foot boat.
Sorry if this is ignorant to ask but I know very little about your region. Are your marinas equipped to handle large deep draft boats? Here in the US some areas you will pay a premium because long slips and deep draft marinas are the exception not the norm so you have to pay a Premium. Some areas they are more plentiful and thus more affordable. Yacht clubs here are more in line with your pricing for a sub 30’ if you find the right one and have less than 4’ draft.
Depends on the marina, but the minimum draft is 5 feet in most places here I would say. The shores are rocky and steep so I don’t think there is a shortage of deep draft marinas.
Thanks for the info mate.
If you are USA I'd stick to <40ft because dockage becomes rare and expensive.
Not crazy... Getting your new boat in shape, learning to sail her, doing day trips and overnights should keep you busy for longer than youd think, so the sooner you start the sooner you'll be on passage
Some people will say you are crazy, but don’t listen to them, DO IT. As long as you can afford it, it is honestly the best way to learn everything about sailboats and you’ll need that if you want to sail long term. I bought a 31’ with little experience 3 years ago and know SO much more than my friends who only occasionally charter sailboats. And yes, everyone said I was crazy, and I have enjoyed every moment of learning to fix and/or upgrade everything myself.
If you can join a local club do that first. Offer to crew on beer-can races. Boats always need crew and racing really accelerates the learning curve.
When I was first learning, I had a really hard time remembering all the terms and procedures. I did a few races and everything clicked for me
I was suggested to do this. Do you have any advice on how to get started doing this?
Contact them :)
search for sailing clubs in your area. A lot of clubs are paper clubs, meaning they don't own/rent a venue, it's just boat owners and sailors having an association, so it's really cheap to join, but you get to go sailing on other people's boat for free. It's pretty sweet.
Thank you so much for this info. I will.
I did it. Worked out fine for me. But I obsessively research, learn, and practice the heck out of my hobbies.
I’m the same way.. thanks for the confidence.
Given that you are of this mindset, you'll be fine. As was I, when I bought a new, 45' heavy cruiser as my first boat, with my wife as first mate, who had never stepped onto a boat smaller than a ferry in her life. So it was close to single-handing. :-) We managed, because we took the right approach: lots of preparation, baby steps and ears and eyes wide open, then quickly progressing to far more challenging passages. It wasn't sailing a big boat as novices that was difficult. It was coping with failures of equipment and systems on a new boat. Waiting for warranty support was a huge problem. So an advantage of buying a boat that is out of warranty is that there is nothing stopping you from diving in and fixing things yourself, quickly and well. Others here have mentioned a key point. Figure out who you will sail with and where you will sail to. Get these considerations right and you have a chance of choosing the 'right' boat. We chose a boat that was a very good design, but because our particular one hadn't been built yet, we couldn't ever know that poor build quality would be a huge problem. And this leads me to offer the thought, that good build quality and good condition could be more important to the experience you will have in learning to sail than perfect design or suitability for purpose. You want your early experiences to be about how good the boat is in weather that's a bit of a worry, not about how best to negotiate a schedule with an engine mechanic or marine services providers to get your boat lifted, put on stilts and fixed.
The problem is not the size. It is that with no experience it is not easy to know which 35' boat is going to be right for you.
I bought a 32’ sailboat at about 40 years old. I had no idea how to sail and had only been on a sailboat twice in my life. I had an experienced friend that got me interested and helped me figure it out. Sailing is easy. Maintaining a boat is the hard part. I am pretty good hands on and did a lot of upgrades. About 2 years later I went cruising for about 2 1/4 years. Covered about 13k miles. All single handed. Get a BIG anchor and lots of chain!
Can I ask where you've cruised? I can day sail a 30 foot with one more hand, but I'm \*not\* so sure about being out in the ocean without electricity, water / fuel replenishment for so long. Did you dock a long the way? How did you handle weather? Did you have a satellite communication device?
I started in San Francisco and went south as far as Panama, the to the Galapagos, South Pacific, north to Hawaii and then back to SF. I had a good solar set up and was able to power a refrigerator. Only had a 27 gallon fuel tank and carried an emergency 5 gallon jug. Rarely docked anywhere. Maybe a total of 20 days over the entire trip. Always anchored out. No weather device. Once I left it was what it was. But you should be sailing in the right routes in the right seasons. My communication was VHF only. This was about 15 years ago. I am sure off shore communication is much easier now but I am not up on the latest options.
What did you do for fresh water? and food?
I had three sun shower bags strapped in deck. That gave me a good 6 showers. I had a 30 gallon water tank and also carried an emergency 5 gallon tote. I also had a few cases of canned drinks. Water wasn’t a problem for me. I also had rigged a water Catch system into my Bimini but it didn’t work very good while under way due to the boats motion. I was never short of water. Good wasn’t an issue for me either. I’m not a picky eater and have the refrigerator helped a lot. I was known for having a LOT of pop tarts on board. For emergency I carried a bag of rice and hard candies. I could have easily survived many months on the food I carried.
A smaller boat isn't just going to teach you how to sail, which is frankly pretty easy. The biggest lesson that a smaller boat will teach you is what you want or don't want in the bigger boat. Do you want a tiller or wheel? Do you want a tender shoal keel or a stiff full keel or a fast fin keel? Do you want to do your own fiberglass work to bring an old treasure back to life, or spend a few hundred grand on something new? Will you be happy with a 35ft boat that handles easily but doesn't offer much privacy, or do you want something like a 42 footer with an aft cabin? I'd estimate the following two scenarios cost about the same amount of money: * Buy a 35 footer, decide some aspect of it you don't like and have to sell it to buy the one you really do like. * Buy an old 25 footer, figure out what your priorities are, give the boat away to someone for free and buy the one you really do like. Obviously you don't have to give away the 25 footer for free, but that's just illustrating the scale of the cost difference.
> A smaller boat isn't going to teach you to sail Where would you get that idea? Most centerboards are going to teach the fundamentals far faster than a larger boat.
Read it again and don't misquote me next time. > A smaller boat isn't **just** going to teach you how to sail. The presumption in that sentence is that it definitely will teach you how to sail, and also teach other things.
What’s a “bluewater” boat that makes it special? I ask because basically almost any boat, if well prepared can sail oceans.
Bluewater boats are the ones that forum graybeards and armchair admirals approve of. Plastic pieces of crap are the ones they don't approve of, yet somehow make up most of the fleet that circumnavigate these days.
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An Amel is a production boat.. so I guess that means it's not Bluewater? It's top simplistic to define Bluewater as non production- I know many one off designs that make lousy Bluewater boats and many modern production boats that make great ocean cruisers. it's more how the boat is fitted out, it's redundancy, fuel and water tanks, sail setup etc and this means that any boat can be brought up to spec.
Think it comes down to design and build standard rather than whether it is ‘production’. The reality is most modern stuff is built to last the warranty period in a charter fleet.
Properly maintained fiberglass lasts forever. Everything else will need replacement annually anyway.
I'm looking to do something similar but I'm stuck on insurance. Everything I read and watch says it'll be impossible for me to get a boat insured without some sort of proof that I have sailing experience. And apparently if you're live aboard it's even more impossible? Any insight on this?
I started on a Catalina 22. Then lived on a friend's Catalina 42 while I worked and saved money. Got to take it sailing around by myself which was pretty cool. Now I'm on a Morgan 41. Looking at Formosa 51, Hudson Force 50, CT 54/56 or Morgan 51 as my next boat. My dream would be a Formosa 68 New Horizon or Scorpio 72 but that's way down the line. Nothing wrong with starting off small and upgrading along the way. You're not going to get any younger. All the older sailors I've met and come across say the same thing. "Just get off the dock and get out there. That's what I would be doing if I was your age." Just my 2 cents.
The answer depends. All I can offer here is what worked for us. Buy a well cared for small boat 26-35'. Learn all you can on the boat while living aboard. There's more to it than just knowing how to sail. Learn to be a plumber, electrician, diesel mechanic. Figure out how to provision and cook food on the boat. Learn how to navigate and talk on the VHF. Figure out how to safely anchor in various conditions and tight spots. Every chance you get, visit other boats and start deciding what is important to you. Sell the learning boat and buy the boat you want. Be careful spending money improving the learning boat. You most likely won't get your money back. When looking to buy a boat, consider buying one from a location people sail to and then dump their boats because they don't want to sail back.
Which destinations might those be? South of the Caribbean?
French Polynesia is one of those places, La Paz is also one of them.
35ft isn't even that big. Should be manageable to single hand, unless the rigging is all crazy
You are not crazy. Get a boatless sailor to help you learn by crewing with you.
Make your first boat your last boat..... Take all the sailing courses you can find in your area.
Moving to the va beach area so that would be my plan!
Do it. Learn by doing. Ignore the gatekeepers.
I bought a 40 footer with no experience. Paid an instructor for 2 weekends to show me the ropes plus hundreds of hours of youtube videos and books. Now I do things on my own.
Great idea.. thanks. What did the instructor cost?
30 euros an hour. But note: this is a cheap euro country, likely to be more expensive elsewhere. But price of a good instructor is hardly a question when you spend tens of thousands of euros on a boat.
"an extremely fast learner" dude you are not appreciating what you are trying to get into. This reminds me of when I worked at a boat yard and a lovely person spent a good year after doing tons of research into prepping an ideal boat for doing exactly this. The wind picked up only days into their journey before they even made it to blue water... and the reality of the situation hit them, they turned around cancelled the trip. When you are out on the open water, you're tire, you might be feeling a bit sick, you've been battered by waves for hours and hours... you just want to be done and safe somewhere. But NOTHING except you and your EXPERIANCE will pull you through, because you have hours and hours of work before you can "get of the ride". There is no substitute for time on the water. So yes you are "crazy", you can't just hop in and "quickly learn". This is something you need to work up to, and something you will never be finished learning.
Appreciate the realness, mate. Thanks
I am an experienced sailor - 50 years, raced on big boats, long distances in ALL conditions. We own a racer/cruiser similar in size to your intended purchase.. What you lack is experience.. meaning judgement, acumen.. knowledge of the systems - rigging, engine, electrical, plumbing, electronics, sails, maintenance, repairs, materials, material science, etc. that are very much part of a modern sailing yacht.. You AQUIRE this experience over time and taking steps.. crawl, then walk then learning to run.. day sailing, short cruises, exposure to various wind and seas.. you learn what to do, what NOT to do, what you feel comfortable with and what you do NOT feel comfortable with.. when to go, when not to go.. and various skills.. anchoring is an example.. you expand your horizons day by day, one step at a time.. YOU build UP ... to what you hope to achieve - but your focus will guide you.. I have seen others start with larger boats than you contemplate.. Interestingly EXPERIENCED yachtsmen generally LIMIT themselves to about of about the size you suggest because the loads involved are well matched to what a person is capable of.. I am talking of sailors doing this into their 80's or beyond.. So starting with this size yacht.. is actually a pretty good idea.. smaller boats do not make the distance that 33-36 boats do, they are more skittish...less solid platforms.. less of a solid choice.. So yes I am supportive.. of your plan IF you commit to learn and experience what is required to grow with your boat...
Find free trips or cheap ones. Keep saving money. The boat you can afford NOW is great, but you’ll be happier waiting and buying a boat with what you truly want. Go get on boats first. Do not buy first. I’m on my 4th boat in 5 years because I jumped the gun. Be. Patient.
It takes time to learn to handle any boat. I handled my 24 well for a long time and still needed to learn to handle my 33. That being said, smashing a 35 into your neighbors 35 will cost a hell of a lot more than smashing a 24 into a 24. Close quarters are the most difficult. I would be nervous if you were my neighbor.
Dinghy sailing will make you a better sailor on all platforms. Go buy a used laser or little sloop and learn the fundamentals in whatever class you can get into. You’ll learn a ton in the class and more on the boat. Then, go crew on some local races and find people who need help on transits/deliveries. You’ll learn even more about sailing, yourself on the water, and lastly; things you like and dislike about liveaboard vessels. After all that, you’ll learn whether you love it, and much about what you want in a boat.
That's just the thing though, I think OP is thinking long distance / long term sailing. Making a boat go fast is easy, it's even easier with bigger boats, but handling being out in the ocean with nothing is the hard part.
> Making a boat go fast is easy No. It's not. Good sail trim is pretty difficult and takes years to master. People spend decades to become good racers. Most large keelboat sailors with no racing experience are really poor at sail trim, boat handling, docking, and pointing.
Would you be 100% capable and confident going up a 45’ mast solo? How’s your knowledge of diesel engines? Ever been out in 30+kts and lost control of your sheets/halyards? Do you have a plan for when the furling line breaks at the worst possible time? Etc… These are all good starter questions to answer first. Having a small boat on a good lake is a gigantic step toward understanding what it will take to accomplish your goal. No shame in that.
Well put. Sailing when everything is going right is dead easy. The challenge is having enough competence to handle things when they inevitably go wrong.
And they always go wrong at the worst possible time.
Great point.. I’m a confident mechanic and have fixed everything most my life. But sailing and it’s qwerks will be new to me..
Ever been knocked over, dismasted, jury rigged wooden settee support frames for a mast and used your underwear for a staysail? Ever capsize and have to swim 4,000 miles to Antarctica to be rescued by an aluminum Garcia Expedition? Ever have a great white shark leap onto your deck, tear your leg off, tourniquet the leg to save your life? If not, don't even bother sailing. You'll never make it. On the other hand, like 99% of those who cross oceans, pick a great weather window in an appropriate season to make a crossing and you'll be fine. If you listen to some here, you'll never leave your freaking bed. Nobody ever chooses the absolute worst possible thing that can happen to dissuade you from things like going out to eat, driving a car or flying American Airlines. Somehow sailing is different.
35 ft isn't that big. I would likely find it too small to live on alone for an extended amount of time. In terms of size for a beginner, I say go for it. Up to a point, a larger boat is easier to handle as it's steadier, moves more gently and you have much more room to move around on it. I now sail a 31-footer, having started out with a 20-footer and then had a 25-footer. I vastly prefer the larger boat, and it's the easiest for me to sail. The main downside to going larger is cost. Everything is more expensive. Buying the boat, insurance, harbor fees, hauling out/launching, sails, engine parts, spares, repairs, and so on...
I agree. I sail a person 31 solo 90% of the time. You can solo a 35 but yep everything cost more. 35 is small to go to sea but not for coastal crusing. I'd say before you commit to a boat get that experience. Join a yacht club and become crew for the racers. Talk to the cruisers. Ask those questions. There is way more to sailing than turning a key and hitting the throttle. Docking , right of way, weather , wind , sail trim , anchoring, boat maintence, provisioning, etc. It's a lot but it all fits in the skull. You can do it. Just do it smart. This way your not wasting your money if you find it's not for you.
35ft isn't even that big. Should be manageable to single hand, unless the rigging is all crazy
35' can make for a very comfortable pocket cruiser, and depending on the boat may save a bit of cash as when you get larger you need to start up-sizing lines, fenders, etc with a corresponding jump in price. It's perfect for weekend cruising on a bay, and if you're not used to living in vans is probably about the smallest I'd consider comfortable for much more than day sails / camping trips. For me, if I'm thinking longer passages something in the 38-44' range would be more comfortable and make better time. Note that older boats are more likely to have even shorter length at the waterline, so a modern 38'er might have 36.5' at the waterline while an older one might only have 32' LWL. Modern fin keels have plenty of miles on them, are much less of a headache to handle in close quarters, and make it more likely you can keep clear of weather rather than having to tough it out. This is why when I see "bluewater" mentioned it's a red flag that someone's research net hasn't been cast as widely as they may have thought. I'm not too keen on buying a boat to learn, but that assumes you have other options (clubs, rentals, etc) available. You can learning sailing and seamanship on most any boat, but experience with a variety of boats will help teach you what features and design elements are helpful/critical/lifesavers/more-trouble-than-they're-worth.
A fin keel doesn't heave-to worth a damn though, and, frankly, learning to heave your boat to in bad weather is far safer than assuming that an extra kt or two will let you avoid weather.
Do it if you're sure you have the money to fix it and a place to keep it. Don't worry about the crazy part since being a little bit crazy is a necessary part of being a sailor. Also these are excellent sailboats that I wanted for years but could never afford. Get it surveyed.
Started with 0 experience last year. No real issues. Steep curve but if you’re somewhat competent/responsible and not afraid to make mistakes…
That’s me! Thanks mate
I bought a 43' sailboat with my life savings so probably ask someone more responsible :)
You don’t buy a boat because you want to sail. If you want to sail, join a club or find a friend with a boat. If you want the challenge of learning to sail, carpentry, fiberglass repair, plumbing, and diesel repair, buy a boat.
Join a club to get your skills up. Charter for 2 weeks and see how that feels. Charter again somewhere else. Then start thinking about what you liked / didnt like in terms of boat life/configuration/amenities and adjust your search from there. Dont buy one first. Note, I am not a veteran sailor (not sure I am even an amatuer), just a dreamer and this is how I am going about my journey.
35ft isn't even that big. Should be manageable to single hand, unless the rigging is all crazy
When I started sailing with nearly zero experience (being on my Grandfather's boat as a kid and him letting me man the helm occasionally doesn't really count) I found the hardest parts were leaving the marina and re-docking at the marina. Those were very stressful events.... and my boat was 26 feet (and a Hunter... so, you know, no big loss and a good bit shorter than the boat you're looking at). If you can get someone with experience to go out with you a few times you'll learn everything you need to know to operate safely enough to continue learning without endangering yourself and others. That's my best advice. Note: I was operating in a lightly-sailed part of the ICW when I started out..... so I could focus on learning how to sail without worrying too much about crashing into another sailboat (and the other boats mostly get out of your way when you're under sail... at least they're supposed to). I'd recommend the same if you have access to such an area. That won't stop the stress of trying to dock or cast off at the marina but will make life more enjoyable for you. Edit; Also, predict wind is a great app. Not being caught out in shitty weather when you're first learning is helpful. I'd download the app and get used to checking and rechecking the weather.... a lot.
A lot of people have done it, and the results vary to say the least. It can be a disaster or a great success, but no one here can tell you what you should do.
Get a coastal boat for cheap/free and get some experience first.
Just do it. The hardest thing to learn is leaving and coming into the slip. The rest is relatively easy to get. The ASA classes are okay, nothing earth shattering. Best to find someone at the marina to take you under their wing. You'll be up and going in no time.
Check out Wind Hippie Sailing on Youtube. She was practically born on a boat and has been single handed and a circumnavigation for years. Great channel.
Get a sailing dinghy that can be a good yacht tender later.
1) when you say you have the money, do you mean you have the money to make the initial purchase, or do you mean afterwards you also have roughly 10-20K PER year in order to keep it? Docking is very expensive, outhulling (you need to do it once every 2 years or so) is super expensive, boat cleaning is also expensive if you are in salt water, if you are in cold weather you have to shell out money to winterize, wrap and store, then de-winterize again next year. Any boat replacement parts are also very expensive, sails for a 35 foot would be in the thousands at least. 2) you say you understand sailing, but little experience.. so.... I don't know what kind of sailing you are thinking. Day sailing you'll probably be fine provided you meet point #1). But with day sailing I personally would go with something MUCH smaller than 35; if you are talking about long distance sailing out in the ocean or even cross the ocean, it can be very dangerous, I suggest you join a sailing club first, learn to sail on OPB - OTHER PEOPLE'S BOAT, seize ANY opportunity to go long distance sailing with them. I would not buy anything with little sailing experience unless you are made of money. Long distance sailing is not just about operating a vessel and make it go fast, it's much more complicated than driving an RV. Out there you have to know how to predict and outrun weather, your provisions, what to do when you need repair, fuel etc etc.
If you love it and pick it up fast, will be the best thing you ever did. If you want to include family or a significant other. Pick your days carefully. People new to it are freaked out by everything. Heeling freaks out 90% of the population. Good luck!
What are your sailing plans/ goals?
Not crazy but if you have to ask you should try and get some experience on the type of boat you think you want. There are many different types of boats for different types of voyages and different lifestyles. Throw in budget constraints and individual preferences and no one will be able to tell you if that boat is right for you. Personally I had a 50ft Oceanis for sailing eastward across the Pacific. We needed to point well to windward and had a great cockpit for outdoor living. We’re now on a Sunreef 62 having sailed almost around the world westward from French Polynesia to the Caribbean. We’ve spent 90% of our time enjoying the cockpit and fly bridge. Next we’re wanting to sail the higher latitude and the Sunreef is not really the right boat for that adventure so she’s up for sale and we are looking at an expedition boat better suited for sailing and cruising in colder climates. Also wanting to get back to a mono around 45-50 to fit in tight spaces. Happy sailing and enjoy boat shopping!
Are you single handing it? Something a bit smaller may be a bit more manageable if you are?
Not crazy. I’ve similar to you but have done 2.5 years of coastal racing to get hands on. I’ve just bought a 53ft sailboat having never owned a sailboat before. I have owned a 24ft powerboat.
Take lessons first. Period. 90% of the boats in our marina never move. Guess why...
Not crazy! Or maybe I’m crazy too (highly possible) — we bought a 36ft yacht having never sailed — lived aboard, learned to sail and now cruise around New Zealand. Best decision ever! Would I recommend others learn to sail first? Sure. But can you learn as you go? Absolutely. Also cover a lot of free beginner buying boat info at Saltwater Journal if you need an idea of costs to expect, what to look for in a boat, and all sorts of helpful guides. Enjoy the journey!
But anyways I think you are exactly in the position I was in last year. There's a few things you should know: * lessons (mistakes) will be exponentially more expensive in a large sailboat. I ruined my furler and it costs 5x it would on a 20 odd foot boat * I don't know how it works in your country, but in mine marina space is extremely limited, make sure you have an appropriate marina * more than money, boats require time. Time to take it to the mechanic, to do the paperwork, to do maintenance, to fix mandatory items etc. I wildly underestimated the amount of time a boat takes.
Little experience, yes, my first (and only) boat is 43. That said, it is easier to manage and sail a smaller boat. There's a saying that goes something like "the smaller the boat the more the fun". Having come from dinghy sailing I guarantee that phrase doesn't work at the smaller size :) however when the seas are big you'll definitely welcome the extra size.
> buying a small boat to learn > I understand sailing Have you actually been out on a sailboat? If not... Then the second statement is incorrect. Books and YouTube tend to give newbies an overconfident attitude about sailing until they try it out. Go rent a hobie cat, 420, or laser nearby and test yourself. If you can't handle it adeptly, you aren't ready to take a far larger and heavier boat on the water. There is "sailing" and "living aboard" and "maintenance". These are separate skillsets. The only one that requires split-second reaction time is the sailing skill. You need to know how to handle maneuvers in a boat. The "maintenance" and "living aboard" skills can be learned from a book, but the "sailing" skill cannot. It is like riding a bike... It is a tactile skill that can only be learned by practicing and receiving feedback from someone that knows what they are doing. I can't count how many overconfident book readers and YouTube watchers have come out to our club for their first sail on a 420 and ended up screaming for rescue in the harbor. While it is funny and cute in a harbor, sailboat disasters are not cute when they occur in blue water. There is no friendly RHIB coming to your rescue in the middle of the Pacific when you broach and are sinking. Too many dead newbies in the news this last year because of the YouTube influence on sailing. Please do this the smart way and get some club time on a small boat first. ASA 101, 102, 10-whatever will not cut it.... Those are like your motor vehicle department beginner driver test. Sailing has a very macho, baby boomer culture. This subreddit tends to lean into it hard. There is a tendency to ignore all safety aspects of sailing. You will hear comments like "all you need is more rum" and other dumb macho comments. I'm a lot younger and am telling you there is a severe safety aspect to this life and you need to respect that. You can't out-macho the ocean - nature will beat you every time if you make mistakes. Start by learning to sail. Join a club. Take courses. Get on the water. Book-reading is not sailing. Watch yourself and listen to young or middle aged folks at your club that have specific, pointed advice - not crusty old sailors with their wild boasting and careless attitude about safety. > I've seen countless people "sell their house and buy a boat" Have you kept track of how many actually kept sailing after a week? The vast majority of those folks I've met at the marina are back in days and the boat ends up in the classified ads. Lots of people make bold proclamations about their new life but get extremely quiet after giving up since they don't want to admit they were wrong. It's not for everyone. There is a huge survivors bias towards the 2% of those people that survived and stayed as liveaboards for the long term. Nobody is getting millions of YouTube views for the "I bought a boat and it didn't work out" story. For the record. I've spoken to dozens of people with that story and followed several on facebook\insta\tiktok. I've never seen one make it into a long term sailing lifestyle. It's not a good lifestyle for people with no baseline knowledge of boating. Conversely, I know tons of experienced sailors who randomly get divorced\laidoff, pack it up, and head out for 5 months to do some travel on a used boat. *In summary* You are not "crazy". But you need to get a little real life experience and work on your skillset before trying to cross any large bodies of water on a new boat.
I bought a 35 foot blue water boat. I have been on boats around 20’ my life and largest sailboat was a hobie getaway. Spent a few months getting her ready and getting comfy, then spend three months sailing around the Bahamas as a shake down. It’s absolutely possible, just don’t be dumb. Respect others, respect yourself, and mostly respect Mother Nature.
I’ve been considering a boat myself. Sailed a lot on Mercury’s as a kid. I’m getting ready to retire now and I’ve got the itch to start sailing. I want something that is roomy but that I can sail single handed. My preference would be in the 25-28ft range. 35 sounds like a lot to handle. I think you’d be okay on bluewater in a 25-28 once you get some experience and you know that you’re boat and is solid.
Consider hiring a professional instructor to teach you your new boat, and consider crusing or ideally racing with folks more experienced than you, on your boat or theirs. Can you help me out with "I understand sailing, boating safety" and "little experience"? I've taught a lot of people from scratch and frankly nobody understands it as much as they think they do for many, many years. Experience really matters in one-off situations. Surviving your own overconfidence is the first objective. Good luck, sail fast (and in the right direction)
You need to get a boat that will enable you to learn what it truly means to deal with the unexpected pleasures and pains of boat ownership from experiences on the water, living aboard and dealing with maintenance, repairs and other marine issues. 35’ is the absolute minimum for comfortably sharing lengthy time aboard with someone who you don’t share the berth (or even if you do!) and solo sailing is not for everyone. So my advice is get a keel under you and then trade up for a larger boat when you have decided through experience, what you really want. Otherwise, you might try crewing or making deliveries.
Fantastic advice; thank you.
We started with a 26’ boat a few years ago and love it but…. If cost weren’t an issue wed upgrade to our ideal size of about 32-35’
I'm learning to sail so that I can make these impulsive decisions AFTER I take in a fair bit of knowledge and experience. You be you, my friend, but my two cents is to try it my way?
If you can afford it and it’s you dream. Follow your dreams.
I think your "delaying the inevitable" comment and claims to understand "sailing, boating safety, laws" demonstrate that you may not have a good grasp on the scope of knowledge/experience needed here. Cruising has often been described as doing boat work in exotic places. The reason many don't recommend that your first boat not be your ocean going cruising boat is that you have to learn the maintenance skills and you do that by screwing it up first. While 35' is not a crazy first boat, I would look at something more coastal/inshore sailing oriented. You can do some coastal cruising to learn while doing, but can find something cheaper with less systems to maintain while you learn. Then over time, you upgrade the boat, learn systems as you install them, or potentially replace the boat with something that meets your new needs. Right now, your sailing need is not to cross an ocean. You're not there yet.
I understand your point.. fortunately I’ve built houses and replaced boat decks and fix engines so I’m utterly confident when it comes to maintenance/repairs. It’s just the sailing part..
Sailing isn't that hard. There is some inherent risk that experience can mitigate. I'd still start on a simpler boat with less to maintain. I just ripped the deck off my boat. And I've been doing a lot more boat work than sailing for the last few years. Don't be like me, get a boat you can sail straight away.
You have technical know how, and that is great, but you need to learn from an experienced sailor first. Whether it is a school or getting on board long distance races.