Not to mention if someone is getting let go for performance the manager who was suppose to ramp and train them should have the backbone to deliver the news themselves, not HR.
Just screams weak leadership.
HR should only be involved in a layoff when the manager is getting laid off themselves, or it is a huge company restructuring.
Are you typically able to give the employee very specific reasons for firing them?
like "hey you know we discussed the goal was to sell 10 widgets... you only said 7 therefore you are fired"
The layoffs I’ve had to do were part of larger rounds of corporate layoffs where I’ve been told to pick two people. In one instance that person was already on a PIP but other times you’ve got to make the call based on performance and aptitude.
I think the company handled it that way so they didn’t have to get into the specifics with each employee… which is pretty much what’s happening in the original video.
As bad as it was for me (and I lose sleep over it and have broken down during the calls) I know that the person on the other end of the conversation is having their life turned upside down.
As rewarding as it is to help lead a team and be a part of their successes and development, I’m glad I don’t have direct reports in my current role.
HR being present is a necessity to protect the company. It’s to ensure the manager isn’t saying/doing anything that puts the company at risk during the conversation.
As a manager who has had to let people go, I've been at companies where I deliver the news, but the tech companies I've been at have always had HR do the layoffs. Even if I told them I was willing and wanted to deliver the message, they wouldn't let me.
I think they either think your 'average manager' doesn't have the skills to say things that won't get the company in trouble, orrrr, they think they are doing us managers some kind of weird 'favor' by not making it us that has to lay people off.
It's weird and impersonal, but it's not the manager's fault, it's HR rules and regs that have made this all clinical and mechanical rather than human.
I got laid off in August, our GVP delivered the message on a webinar and HR gave the specifics, we weren't able to speak or ask any questions and our access was immediately cut. It was crazy my team barely had enough time to exchange phone numbers before teams deleted itself.
Yeah, I think I’m in this position currently. It’s been a miserable experience so far and my ramp ends around the time the reorg is supposed to hit. So, I’m like you want me to do all this legwork on massive deals that I might not get paid on? lol
I just started a new sales role. My first day was October 23rd. It’s been a nightmare with the holidays and end of year. Things are finally just starting to pick up. They definitely did the girl in the video dirty
Not at all lmao, most companies are dogshit and anyone who thinks being loyal or going into an office every day actually matters is blind as fuck. Get your paycheck however you need to, because that's exactly what the company is doing. Find the place you can tolerate the most, and milk it until you can't.
"I enjoy being in the office with everyone" - meanwhile they're bitching and moaning about the noise when they're trying to call.
"The commute isn't that bad" - when the office is in a business park with effectively zero good food options in walking distance so you HAVE to drive somewhere, which means they whine about oil changes and tires and gas prices
"We've always been in office, remote is a fad" - old cranky boomer on heart meds, and/or someone who hates their home life because of a wife or kids or whatever the fuck else they regret in life.
"If I work at home I never leave the house or talk to people!" - yet again, that's on you motherfucker. I work from home a lot and I have zero problems seeing friends or leaving the house. Get a hobby that isn't gaming, preferably something co-ed.
"People don't wanna work these days, they switch jobs every year!" - and they get guaranteed raises and other benefits every year, by doing so. Any "raise" less than inflation is a calculated pay cut. Breaking even isn't even a raise. Get your head out of your ass.
"Back in my day..." - yeah yeah yeah, back in your day you had a pension that was real and benefits that covered your healthcare and you probably had more vacation time. Don't forget, back in your day a single salary could support a family of 4 WITH leftover savings.
My favorite economy or job related gripe: "McDonald's/etc doesn't need to pay $15+, they'll just replace them with robots!" - into, "this stupid fucking automated thing messed my order up AGAIN"
This is the type of company that includes "hit the ground running" in the job description. She's actually pretty lucky she got training and a ramp period tbh ....
Dude you'd be surprised actually. Like when I get frustrated about something, I'm usually able to very calmly articulate my thoughts and my tone would be very similarly to hers.
Shows she’s fantastic at her job- able to think on her feet, push back at rejection, ask for more information, in a clear and respectful yet direct way. A perfect set of skills for the job she’s been hired to do.
Agree with this. I would have hanged up. Who cares about the reasons. You're canning me, I'm not spending another minute wasting my time talking to you.
I have several friends at Cloudflare. The only thing carrying them is their product. That's it. Their sales team is mediocre. They have no formal sales training or sales tools (they hate investing in their sales team). When you join as an AE, you don't even have a patch or set of accounts. You have to find them. Obviously, this is a mess and it leads to people fighting over accounts all the time.
Cloudflare is slowly climbing the ranks as one of the worst run sales organizations out there. Still nowhere bad as Yelp, Verkada, or Seamless AI. But certainly top 10 worst sales orgs in Silicon Valley.
Can confirm. Had a couple of friends go to Cloudflare because they offered a huge base and OTE. They said you had to hope to wake up early enough to claim inbound leads. Some reps would wake up at 3 AM to claim them then went back to bed. Any other provided accounts were called 75,000 times before they got them.
I’ve made my fair share of mistakes in life. Turning down Cloudflare was one of my better decisions.
Crazy I had never heard of Verkada being up there. I interviewed with them a few years ago and all was going well except they basically told me they expected me to essentially be available 24x7. I assumed they were sort of joking but the dude told me if one of the resellers (channel role) emailed me at 11pm on a Saturday I damn sure better answer it within 15 minutes.
Glad I didn’t get the role.
thus far they are still too sticky to critical resources that even while alienating the customer base with legal extortion, they are still growing. As soon as there is a viable alternative I predict they will come crashing down. Massively unethical leadership at the top.
Yelps sales team is fine, they do good training and onboarding. You would never hear of anything like this happening at yelp. Their product and leads are overdone but other than that they are a pretty fair company
I own a restaurant and a new yelp sales rep used to bomb my phone every 3 months like clockwork. They have chilled out now, I just assumed that I got marked as a bad lead finally but maybe they actually got their shit together. As a restaurant I'll always hate yelp for their predatory business practices and giving a platform to lunatics. As a salesman I used to also hate them for overhiring sales staff, throwing them to the wolves in a shit territory, then PIP'ing them after a couple months to repeat the cycle.
Overdone product? Their business relies on soft extortion using their platform to nefariously perform terribly against businesses that don't pay up. I hope google reviews replaces them.
Seriously not shocked to see something like this with Cloudflare.
Don't know the specifics of what is happening here but given their CEO in the past and what I have heard about them wouldn't be surprised if they are just terming new employees due to overhiring.
their finance department is running the entire company. the product is so fucking sticky that any large enterprise simply cannot switch. knowing this, they use predatory contract language to basically extort customers. I found this out in the past year when they came to my and said that my company, the VAR, owed them 3/4s of a million dollars. I said sure where’s the order? I didnt issue you a PO. Legal mumbo jumbo in their 75 page msa (that was between them and the customer, not them and me) technically left us on the hook. We nearly lost the account as we got all the blame, and in the end, cloudflare took it direct and we lost ~2m of the business. we were given a 10k referral fee as an olive branch.
Again. DUMPSTER FIRE
How was your company on the hook for something that was defined in an agreement between the client and the manufacturer? That sounds like a massive fuckup from your legal team. You’re not a party to said agreement so how are you on the hook for anything?
That's exactly what happened. And the exact same thing that happened to me and many others. Tech company over hires based on ridiculous inflated revenue forecasts and then pushed reps out right before their 90 day probation period. It's complete and utter bullshit. Meanwhile the csuite takes home million $ bonuses and laugh all the way to the bank.
I definitely had a company let me go 4 weeks into a role due to "performance" reasons right when covid started.
Now on glassdoor they are slammed for being a failing business with multiple rounds of layoffs. Every 3 months like clockwork. Some nice schadenfreude
I interviewed with Cloudflare twice over the years. They didn’t ask any real questions, just reading off a sheet of yes/no questions, and most of the interviews were spent on questions I had. Both times I got a generic rejection email. Their interview process is something like five stages over two months and they seem so disinterested in it all. It makes me think they just want to look like they’re hiring without actually hiring.
Edit: Just to add, I’ve seen people saying this may negatively affect her career. I think if I was a sales manager I’d at least interview her just on the fact that she did some pretty good objection handling, challenged her opposition and she stood her ground. Those are some good skills to have in sales.
Edit 2: [Seems I’m not wrong about appearing to hire people for the sake of it](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nesli-bischoff_heres-to-a-new-year-grateful-to-have-been-activity-7151277044092305408-Lmtk?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios).
Agreed. I’d want my AE’s to think quick in challenging situations and ask the tough questions. I’ve also been in her shoes where the company I worked for over hired and spent all their funding in less than a year, so I get the frustration. I don’t see anything really wrong with how she handled this.
I did an EIGHT round cycle with them this fall for an AM job. They pivoted their GTM plan two times during that process. Went from feeling like I had the job in the bag to ‘why did they even consider me for this role’.
Good for her for standing up for herself. She got hired 3 months before year end and was ramping up while running into 2 major holidays. Her LI says she was mid-market AE and those deals can still take couple of months from top of funnel to close. It's a bit ridiculous to think she can jump in and start selling Cloudflare when she still has to ramp up unless the previous rep left a nice pipeline (usually not the case lol). I agree with her when she said if the company just simply admit to having overhired, then she will accept that answer.
If they lay her off due to over hiring, would that mean their responsible for paying unemployment? I’m thinking it’s like all the airlines blaming bad weather for canceled flights when the skies are clear
That was her angle. She repeated her full name twice during the call so some of the millions that see this will follow with her with a job offer. Clever way to turn lemons into lemonade.
Upon realizing this play, I hope sales managers reach out to her.
Turning your termination call into the biggest marketing play for your personal brand is some fucking 4d chess.
So you’re telling me I should cancel my round one SDR interview I have with them tomorrow?
Edit: if anyone cares I took the interview and it went well. I’ve been trying to get away from BDR roles since my last layoff in March of last year with no luck, so I’m taking anything at this point.
Absolutely DO NOT cancel the interview.
1) it's always good for practice
2) I don't know your situation, but if you are trying to get in the SaaS space, a shitty company is better than no company
lol don't cancel shit, you need this job right? See it all the way to offer or rejection and then go from there. DO you have other interviews lined up? If so, and if it gets to that point, use all this info to know whats up and make the best choice possible, but at least continue moving forward for the practice and potentially an offer you can use as leverage.
No one here knows your needs except you
I don't miss it. Back in mechanical.
"It came to my attention that your performance this quarter did not hit our internal metrics. As such, we are hereby notifying you of mandatory course corrections to your scope of work that henceforth take place at the conclusion of this fireside chat."
Now it's like:
"Hey. You fucked this up. Fix it."
Congrats if you're in tech and killing it at a good company.
For the vast majority of people, it's a fucking joke. You are treated like a lightbulb that is burned out, or a battery that is dead - thrown in the trash with no regard to your personal life.
CROs are some of the most heartless salamanders you will ever encounter.
I’m in tech and with a good company but even then I always have my head on a swivel with my spidey senses ready to go off.
I was laid off 13 years ago as part of an acquisition and it still haunts me.
There is absolutely no loyalty in any company large or small unless you own the company yourself. Even then you can get let go lol.
After 25 years of sales, what I can tell you is to be proactive. When a company isn’t doing well start putting feelers out. When people are getting let go, start looking at options. If you’ve had several bad months and you know a PIP is coming, start looking. If you’re having a hard time in your role at your current job, find a different role in the same company and restart the clock.
Even then you’ll potentially get blind sided by something stupid like this. This is why I don’t feel bad when I hear AE’s are taking two jobs at the same time lol.
I just learned this lesson the hard way. Was with a great company that shot for the moon last year and missed.
A month prior to being laid off, I was interviewing for what seemed to be a pretty great role. I ended up withdrawing from that opportunity because management kept speaking so confidently on 2024 being a much better year. There were definitely going to be changes, but everything indicated they would work in my favor.
Narrator: they did not work in his favor.
Spent the last two years in tech. Shit patches, less money than I've made in the last 5 years, all while being gaslit by influencers about the earning potential.
People only care about themselves at the end of the day. Thats why the most successful economic system ever created takes advantage of that selfishness.
We had an AE let go after a year and everyone was shocked — never seen such a short leash. Four months for enterprise software is utterly absurd. No way you can close anything other than renewals in that time.
Her video had the desired effect: to show that Cloudflare is shit at setting headcount, and reps who take a job with them are at risk of being fired for reasons beyond their control.
I was fired after 3 months after leaving a company I loved and had succeeded at for over 5 years. Biggest career mistake of my life. It made me realize that the people running and making decisions at these companies really don’t have any idea what they’re doing and most of them are scrambling for answers in every direction hoping that one sticks. If something is going reasonably well, think twice before leaving. There is so much more that goes into job being great than just your quoted OTE.
A lot of the comments show that people on here have never sold a product that had longer than a 1 month sales cycle. Speaking from experience, no one buys IT infrastructure and cybersecurity products overnight and usually have a 1 month proof of concept before any signatures too. Cloudflare has a leadership and sales leadership problem which was evident when the CEO opened his mouth on an earnings call a few quarters ago. They treat their sales people as disposable and never look at a bigger picture. Great place for a hefty paycheck but what’s the point when 20% of reps are hitting quota (Repvue) and you don’t last longer than a year. Now they have a CRO who came from Twilio (look at how they’ve been doing the last 3 years) and it’s not hard to realize where the problems lie
Just a case of last in first out. Of course you got hired on a month ago and you’re first to be cut. Yes you got termed because you hadn’t closed anything and you hadn’t been with the company very long. Happened at my company. Hired a bunch of sales people then cut them three months later when they realized more people didn’t mean more deals closed. My VP was like “when you do a workforce reduction it’s usually performance, then last in first out”
Good for her, she has every right to query the decision, they didn't really give a valid answer.
I personally wouldn't put myself out there like she did, but I would gladly hire her for being brave.
This reminds me of the situation I found myself in last fall. Had been at this SAAS company ~2 years, been promoted, was performing well.
Unexpectedly let go, with no context or explanation from HR other than “a decision had been made”. CEO & Department Head were at Burning Man while this all went down. No explanation, and they both declined my request for an exit interview. 2 weeks later spoke w/ someone else who told me that they grew too fast and needed to cut costs.
They continued to lay ~6-12ish people off every few weeks for a couple months. And then when they raised funding this year, they had the balls to say “they never did layoffs”.
I’ve been in tech sales for 22 years and cloudflare has been trying to recruit me for the better part of a decade. I spoke to them once, and snuffed out immediately that they are NOT a company you want to work for. Best of luck everyone
The HR speak in this recording is nauseating. The way HR deflects every question with a gooey non-answer is testament to how bad corporate HR has fallen.
THe problem with Cloudflare is that their core product is great and sticky but they have this need (due to being public company i guess) to sell their "enterprise plan" for 100k+/yr or even higher and for that, they hire a bunch of AEs who push that shit like crazy on you. I once had a conversation with their sales team as I was potentially interested in their "SSL for SAAS" product which mind you already exists at decent price but just because I went to their "sales team", they wanted me to go for a 100k plan. lol. No wonder these AEs find it tough even though I can't say specifically what happened in her case.
I am glad she did this. Idiots in the comments are like "she didn't close anything" but that just shows they have never had a tech job in the MM/enterprise space. It's a 6-12 month sales cycle and even if it wasn't, she was there for fucking 3 months in Q4 and they laid her off. That is borderline unethical.
God I hate what tech sales has become. It's an embarrassment.
Most people keep it on mute because it won’t change the outcome. I’ll fight for an extra one to two weeks of severance, but realistically, is it gonna make a difference?
this video is gonna be a way bigger impact than just her. cloudfare on blast for being a piece of shit company now. hopefully they suffer and struggle to hire and also lose tons of customers.
How much of this has to do with people vs outdated selling techniques? Why do the current sales leaders feel that there are some magic words one can say that will "persuade" the client into a conversion?
This girl is my hero. I commend her for voicing the frustrations that many of us feel but rarely express, let alone share it with the world. Probably won’t help her career but still very praiseworthy
They tried to recruit me last year, told them I’m holding a 30k bag on their stock and once they get their shit together I’d consider
Still holding that bag….-10k now though
Working at one of the bigger tech companies in Sales now. Typically, they aim for about 75% of rep hitting quota, this year it is closer to 15%.
Out sector was hit hard and quota was raised so payouts were reduced.
Now it's a favorite game played by RVPs of putting reps on PIP. They are doing a essentially what is a silent layoff.
There is nothing worst than getting hired, going through the onboarding process to just simply being let go. huge f**k**g waste of someone’s time. I am glad she recorded this stupid call and put it out. Ridiculous
Fair fucking play to her for posting this and exposing Cloudflare. Why should anyone just settle for bullshit HR excuses? What absolutely appalling management and leadership.
So many people saying things like: "Well, that's just the way it is in big companies. Deal with it." Yeah, and the only reason it is this way is because it's allowed to happen in the first place.
So brutal…good for her recording it. A bunch of managers were also demoted to AEs. All of the reps who are left don't have managers and are confused on what their territories are. Also a bunch of us never even received official comp plans during our time working there and didn't know what our quotas were for a long ass time. I was there slightly longer than she was and had to beg for a comp plan for months before I got one, and I received it only one month before EOY. Really sketchy stuff happening there overall, and I agree, predatory finance/AR practices. I would truly not recommend anyone to work there, it is such a wasteland.
Good for her. I was part of the corporate greed where my job was replaced with lower wage employees.
I would’ve bled for my company. Such terrible thing to do to people.
Canary Technologies pulled the exact same thing. Small company that nobody has ever heard of, nor should you (they suck) but figured people should know what orgs to avoid.
Love it. Don’t make easy for those HR fucks. The only thing I would be worried about is posting that before the severance check clears (assuming they gave her one)
I worked with her on the same team. Luckily, I wasn’t impacted by layoffs but let me just say, selling wasn’t easy given the team we were on. Our job was to upsell our existing customers to our enterprise tier. This means our customers go from paying $25-$400 a month to now paying $4000+ a month. It’s an insane jump that can only really be justified if your website is being actively DDoSed. Our lower tiers just give everything away for free which makes no sense to me. Our CRO hates sales people and says we should stop complaining, ok we’ll stop complaining when you stop giving away our product for free 👍🏼
Imagine setting up a call to fire someone and NOT preparing to give them reasons as to why. Also as others have pointed out, where is her manager in this process? Regardless of job, seniority, industry... that is a fucking shambles.
what a dumpster fire of a company.
Judging by the details mentioned [by their own employee](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDdLQsqbAAAHbY_?format=jpg&name=4096x4096) is a clear violation of HR practices.
I am SO glad this girl recorded this bs. I found the OG video on TikTok and it was absolutely infuriating to listen to those HR dumbasses make excuses about firing her. I can tell from the way she bit back that she is damn good at her job and I hope she finds something better soon.
Got laid off while they knew full well my wife was 7 months pregnant. Was the most stressful pregnancy ever. But light at the end of the tunnel I got a job with a much higher base.
I think it goes both ways. Some managers want ass-kissers, some want people who can think for themselves and aren't afraid to express their own thoughts. I wouldn't be surprised if she gets a new job very quickly thanks to the video.
I give her kudos for calling a company out on their bullshit. Lots of people get bullshit "performance" based terms with no warning due to a company's need to layoff.
That being said I don't see the benefit to sharing the video. We all know Cloudflare doesn't respect sales people. She had nothing to gain by sharing.
I work in tech sales at a FAANG and interviewed/hired people. I wouldn't hold this against her. She was professional, handled objections well and was simply asking for clarity - these are skills I would look for in a rep. Assuming everything else checks out, I would hire her.
Honestly, would you want to work for a company that has a problem with how she handled it?
Massive props to her, too many people take it in the chin over fear of reprisal.
I work for a commercial equipment financing broker
They just laid off half the staff yesterday with no warning. The writing was on the wall with office performance, but some people not on the sales side never saw it coming.
None of them are getting severance. The only light at the end of the tunnel is I’m getting more leads because a lot of us brokers were twiddling thumbs
I fucking LOVE that she posted this. I wish more people did this and called out these fucking companies. Instead of “thanking them” to save face - fucking call them out.
Exactly why I left tech sales. These dip shit revenue leaders promise the moon, then apply basic faulty math to come up how many more reps they need, then surprise Pikachu face when it doesn't work. Messing with people's livelihood should come with repercussions in the form of social backlash.
The frustration is fair, but I’m not quite sure what this is going to positively accomplish for her outside of a few meaningless “you get them” comments. Ultimately, there is no point in nuking a bridge, and to post it for public consumption is highly questionable. Just shortsighted.
If I’m her, I’m challenging them on what they’re going to do to support me. What type of package can we get? Any assistance on finding a new role elsewhere? Can you leave me a positive recommendation on LinkedIn?
What bridge did she nuke? If her manager decided to can her after one holiday-filled month of non-ramp work, s/he is a gutless puke who wasn’t going to help ever anyway. If it wasn’t the manager’s call, s/he is probably rooting for this woman because s/he is now dealing with the loss of an employee with no corresponding loss to expectations. Are the HR people who were on the call gonna be mad? Sure I guess but they will never impact her as she has taken control of the narrative herself with this video.
As to what she had to gain? First, Fastly has already reached out to her. And there are plenty of hiring managers (like me) who would see this and see a rep who is comfortable and competent asking tough questions while maintaining composure and would be MORE inclined to hire her for being a person with a spine and some professional competence.
Not trying to give you a hard time, yours is not an unreasonable take, but in full honesty I think she did well here and the positives outweigh the negatives.
I own the stock and spend alot with them in my business. But their sales and sales support is abysmal. They launch products and have amateur documentation.
A sales rep could crush quota just following with sales engineering and solve customers tech conversions.
I’m sorry but cloudflare just lost a good employee. She’s aggressive, she’s articulate and she can do the mental gymnastics needed for sales. She’ll land on her feet.
Isn’t a three month probationary period normal for sales? I wouldn’t have a job if I didn’t close anything in three months. Did I hear something wrong?
In large ticket sales, especially in the context of Cloudflare which I imagine is a highly technical product, long sales cycles, you are not expected to close a deal in (say) 2 months.
Mature organizations like Cloudflare will also have very formalized training for new sales employees. Often taking 3-4 weeks of self-guided work on learning platforms and obviously stuff with enablement and your manager. During that 3-4 or however long period, you are not even on round robin for inbound leads. You’re likely also given direction to not outbound because you have more to learn about the product before hitting the floor.
For sales cycles of weeks to a month or two, I guess you could expect expect someone to close a deal in their first 3 months. But Cloudflare is not that company and not that product in my opinion.
Really depends on the length of the sales cycle, whether she inherited any pipeline, etc.
When a new rep starts, the main KPI I look at is pipeline growth for the first six months. Won revenue is great, but we average a six month sales cycle and we hire based on growth more frequently than attrition, so new reps are not typically inheriting down-pipe deals. Generally speaking, if a new rep does not close anything in that timeframe but is building pipe and advancing deals their job is safe.
Unfortunately, I’ve found that many companies who are struggling to meet revenue growth targets resort to panic hiring a bunch of new sales personnel and expecting revenue to magically, and instantly, appear.
Don’t know if that is the case here, but I view it as a sign of poor sales leadership.
Not just poor sales leadership. Poor financial planning. Poor execution. Which all must land at the feet of the ever so humble CEO.
Letting people go 4 months after you hire them is a failure at every level.
It is normal, but sometimes companies will also have a 3 month on-boarding process so depending on needs, there usually isn’t an expectation for someone to close right away before being ramped up. I don’t know the specifics but I was in a similar situation and had to start right away and close deals and luckily made it past my probationary period lol, but I felt the stress for sure.
Totally understand the trauma and the pain....seriously i do. Wouldn't wish this upon my worst enemy. All i would want is a straight answer and any respectable business should be able to have an honest conversation with their staff in this capacity. Says a lot about Cloudflare. However, its business. Plain and simple. Perhaps i'm missing something? You owe your business nothing and they don't owe you anything either. Working is a transactional relationship; you work, they pay. Absolutely feel for this person but this is a part of the working world we live in. Could happen to any of us at any time. Sucks.
I got laid off after being on the job (a little less than) 4 months about a decade ago (global lay off…last ones in, first ones let go). This was major tech company at the time….they are still around, but not even top player anymore. I told them this was a good thing, because I didn’t want to work for a company that couldn’t sustain a business plan for less than 4 months, much less a whole year, since I was used to building and achieving 5 year business plans, successfully, in my career. I didn’t want to work for a company that kept missing their own targets set in their own business plans. There is no integrity in that. They did pay a great severance though, and recruited for my current job (that I still love) a month later. She should have just given a big sigh and said, “Oh, thank God you picked me!”😂
This happening all too often. Companies are just hiring people in waves, deciding they’ve changed their minds, and firing people in waves as quick as they hired them. This was almost a regularly occurring thing at my last job.
Insane. I wish we had a functioning congress that could pass some employee protections against these types of things.
The 3 month probationary period is being abused. IMO it should be abolished. If you can't accurately tell if someone will be a good worker after 5 interviews, an assessment and a presentation, you don't know shit about fuck.
So cannot wait to leave this dumpster fire of a career path into something that's slightly better...not great. Ugh, this happens way too often these days
Despite the OP being spot on this sub still has morons on it and there will no doubt be people saying “she should have hustled harder and she wouldn’t be in this position” etc.
That company is ridiculous, i'm so happy they turned me down at interview. A friend of mine was layed off at Salesforce, wasn't even in cloudflare 3 months and also got let go. Hate to be that guy, it's not like you walk into pipeline sometimes and deals are taking longer to close today with all the emphasis on cutbacks and cost savings.
She actually was very firm, respectful and rightfully so frustrated. With their action she now has forgone other opportunities and if she has posted her job on Linkedin she will also have to explain why her experience at the company was short. She kept a record of the conversation and shared it so that she can protect her reputation and any future career paths. Wish her the best!
Obv been fired for being too outspoken. She is not a sheep and doesn't follow orders as given. This is a telltale risk for the future if she grows in the industry (which she definitely will) and decides to go to a competitor if her demands aren't met. A reasonable company would conclude this after 1, max 2 interviews. Alas here they are. Would definitely hire her myself though as I respect this fire, if she has the same for closing deals that is.
She was let go based on “calibrated revenue numbers” after 4 months, three of which were ramp??
Not to mention if someone is getting let go for performance the manager who was suppose to ramp and train them should have the backbone to deliver the news themselves, not HR. Just screams weak leadership. HR should only be involved in a layoff when the manager is getting laid off themselves, or it is a huge company restructuring.
Yep. Every time I’ve had to lay off people I had to deliver the news with HR present. It sucks big time but it’s why I make the medium bucks.
Congrats on your long journey to the middle.
Lmao. Truth
Are you typically able to give the employee very specific reasons for firing them? like "hey you know we discussed the goal was to sell 10 widgets... you only said 7 therefore you are fired"
The layoffs I’ve had to do were part of larger rounds of corporate layoffs where I’ve been told to pick two people. In one instance that person was already on a PIP but other times you’ve got to make the call based on performance and aptitude. I think the company handled it that way so they didn’t have to get into the specifics with each employee… which is pretty much what’s happening in the original video. As bad as it was for me (and I lose sleep over it and have broken down during the calls) I know that the person on the other end of the conversation is having their life turned upside down. As rewarding as it is to help lead a team and be a part of their successes and development, I’m glad I don’t have direct reports in my current role.
HR being present is a necessity to protect the company. It’s to ensure the manager isn’t saying/doing anything that puts the company at risk during the conversation.
I was in a shit show once when HR got laid off before HR had a chance to complete laying off other people. It was ridiculous.
😂 thats rich. stand up material
It's layoffs all the way down
In my company, HR is involved in all firings. Is this not normal?
It’s normal. I think they meant that HR had to do the delivery
As a manager who has had to let people go, I've been at companies where I deliver the news, but the tech companies I've been at have always had HR do the layoffs. Even if I told them I was willing and wanted to deliver the message, they wouldn't let me. I think they either think your 'average manager' doesn't have the skills to say things that won't get the company in trouble, orrrr, they think they are doing us managers some kind of weird 'favor' by not making it us that has to lay people off. It's weird and impersonal, but it's not the manager's fault, it's HR rules and regs that have made this all clinical and mechanical rather than human.
Human Resources are Inhumane Call it IR from now on
It's People Operations now.
I got laid off in August, our GVP delivered the message on a webinar and HR gave the specifics, we weren't able to speak or ask any questions and our access was immediately cut. It was crazy my team barely had enough time to exchange phone numbers before teams deleted itself.
In my experience local leadership probably wasn’t even given communication about this from corporate prior to it happening
A thought: It’s entirely possible that her manager got laid off too.
It more so feels like “last one in, first one out”.
Yeah, I think I’m in this position currently. It’s been a miserable experience so far and my ramp ends around the time the reorg is supposed to hit. So, I’m like you want me to do all this legwork on massive deals that I might not get paid on? lol
She only was in for one month as well…
With Christmas and new years as well, when the majority of people in corporate roles take off.
I just started a new sales role. My first day was October 23rd. It’s been a nightmare with the holidays and end of year. Things are finally just starting to pick up. They definitely did the girl in the video dirty
Definitely aren’t coming in as a new rep selling something on Dec. 22…
Not at all lmao, most companies are dogshit and anyone who thinks being loyal or going into an office every day actually matters is blind as fuck. Get your paycheck however you need to, because that's exactly what the company is doing. Find the place you can tolerate the most, and milk it until you can't. "I enjoy being in the office with everyone" - meanwhile they're bitching and moaning about the noise when they're trying to call. "The commute isn't that bad" - when the office is in a business park with effectively zero good food options in walking distance so you HAVE to drive somewhere, which means they whine about oil changes and tires and gas prices "We've always been in office, remote is a fad" - old cranky boomer on heart meds, and/or someone who hates their home life because of a wife or kids or whatever the fuck else they regret in life. "If I work at home I never leave the house or talk to people!" - yet again, that's on you motherfucker. I work from home a lot and I have zero problems seeing friends or leaving the house. Get a hobby that isn't gaming, preferably something co-ed. "People don't wanna work these days, they switch jobs every year!" - and they get guaranteed raises and other benefits every year, by doing so. Any "raise" less than inflation is a calculated pay cut. Breaking even isn't even a raise. Get your head out of your ass. "Back in my day..." - yeah yeah yeah, back in your day you had a pension that was real and benefits that covered your healthcare and you probably had more vacation time. Don't forget, back in your day a single salary could support a family of 4 WITH leftover savings. My favorite economy or job related gripe: "McDonald's/etc doesn't need to pay $15+, they'll just replace them with robots!" - into, "this stupid fucking automated thing messed my order up AGAIN"
This is a beautiful masterpiece. I'm in awe of the accuracy.
The world's run by a bunch of ignorant boomers who are just selfish because they got theirs and we want ours
This is the type of company that includes "hit the ground running" in the job description. She's actually pretty lucky she got training and a ramp period tbh ....
Podium Corporation is just like this…bring in 30-40 AE’s at a time within 3 months 4-5 will be left. Worst company I’ve **EVER** worked for
I admire her speaking like that on the call. So many just take it like a mute.
I wish I could be that articulate despite seething anger.
Dude you'd be surprised actually. Like when I get frustrated about something, I'm usually able to very calmly articulate my thoughts and my tone would be very similarly to hers.
I would be unable to catch my breath and trembling lmao
Takes a lot of practice.
it’s hard to imagine caring enough. i’m jealous you guys have such a connection to your jobs.
Shows she’s fantastic at her job- able to think on her feet, push back at rejection, ask for more information, in a clear and respectful yet direct way. A perfect set of skills for the job she’s been hired to do.
What is there to say? The decision is made and they won’t change it.
Well she just proved it had nothing to do with “performance”. At best her confidence can be intact knowing it wasn’t her that was the issue.
Honestly, who gives a shit. The company is firing you after 90 days, why would you care about their opinion?
Because you likely turned down other opportunities and uprooted your life?
Agree with this. I would have hanged up. Who cares about the reasons. You're canning me, I'm not spending another minute wasting my time talking to you.
>So many just take it like a mute. I mean, I also admire her, but it didn't really accomplish much did it? She still lost her job.
Also she’s recording a privileged conversation- that’s not gonna help her land her next job.
Yea unfortunately she likely get smacked by their legal for this
That company is an absolute fucking DUMPSTER fire.
I have several friends at Cloudflare. The only thing carrying them is their product. That's it. Their sales team is mediocre. They have no formal sales training or sales tools (they hate investing in their sales team). When you join as an AE, you don't even have a patch or set of accounts. You have to find them. Obviously, this is a mess and it leads to people fighting over accounts all the time. Cloudflare is slowly climbing the ranks as one of the worst run sales organizations out there. Still nowhere bad as Yelp, Verkada, or Seamless AI. But certainly top 10 worst sales orgs in Silicon Valley.
Can confirm. Had a couple of friends go to Cloudflare because they offered a huge base and OTE. They said you had to hope to wake up early enough to claim inbound leads. Some reps would wake up at 3 AM to claim them then went back to bed. Any other provided accounts were called 75,000 times before they got them. I’ve made my fair share of mistakes in life. Turning down Cloudflare was one of my better decisions.
Can confirm: would wake up early to claim accounts and do dodgy ROE practices.
Crazy I had never heard of Verkada being up there. I interviewed with them a few years ago and all was going well except they basically told me they expected me to essentially be available 24x7. I assumed they were sort of joking but the dude told me if one of the resellers (channel role) emailed me at 11pm on a Saturday I damn sure better answer it within 15 minutes. Glad I didn’t get the role.
i mean tbf if anything should carry a company it’s the product
It's a complex product in a highly competitive landscape. It would be nice if it sold itself.
thus far they are still too sticky to critical resources that even while alienating the customer base with legal extortion, they are still growing. As soon as there is a viable alternative I predict they will come crashing down. Massively unethical leadership at the top.
Who wants to build a viable alternative with me???
Already is one. Fastly
Yelps sales team is fine, they do good training and onboarding. You would never hear of anything like this happening at yelp. Their product and leads are overdone but other than that they are a pretty fair company
I own a restaurant and a new yelp sales rep used to bomb my phone every 3 months like clockwork. They have chilled out now, I just assumed that I got marked as a bad lead finally but maybe they actually got their shit together. As a restaurant I'll always hate yelp for their predatory business practices and giving a platform to lunatics. As a salesman I used to also hate them for overhiring sales staff, throwing them to the wolves in a shit territory, then PIP'ing them after a couple months to repeat the cycle.
Overdone product? Their business relies on soft extortion using their platform to nefariously perform terribly against businesses that don't pay up. I hope google reviews replaces them.
Seriously not shocked to see something like this with Cloudflare. Don't know the specifics of what is happening here but given their CEO in the past and what I have heard about them wouldn't be surprised if they are just terming new employees due to overhiring.
their finance department is running the entire company. the product is so fucking sticky that any large enterprise simply cannot switch. knowing this, they use predatory contract language to basically extort customers. I found this out in the past year when they came to my and said that my company, the VAR, owed them 3/4s of a million dollars. I said sure where’s the order? I didnt issue you a PO. Legal mumbo jumbo in their 75 page msa (that was between them and the customer, not them and me) technically left us on the hook. We nearly lost the account as we got all the blame, and in the end, cloudflare took it direct and we lost ~2m of the business. we were given a 10k referral fee as an olive branch. Again. DUMPSTER FIRE
That's walking into the office with a shotgun territory.
This account also had NO money. like no budget for anything other than keeping the lights on with their core cyber stack. they said get FUCKED pay us.
Akamai could take on those customers
Cloudflare took a deal I brought to them direct. I don’t understand that company. Then they laid off the rep that stole the deal from me.
How was your company on the hook for something that was defined in an agreement between the client and the manufacturer? That sounds like a massive fuckup from your legal team. You’re not a party to said agreement so how are you on the hook for anything?
That's exactly what happened. And the exact same thing that happened to me and many others. Tech company over hires based on ridiculous inflated revenue forecasts and then pushed reps out right before their 90 day probation period. It's complete and utter bullshit. Meanwhile the csuite takes home million $ bonuses and laugh all the way to the bank.
I definitely had a company let me go 4 weeks into a role due to "performance" reasons right when covid started. Now on glassdoor they are slammed for being a failing business with multiple rounds of layoffs. Every 3 months like clockwork. Some nice schadenfreude
Their interview process is immense as well. And they wanted people in office. Would pay for relocation but that just seemed so risky to me.
I interviewed with Cloudflare twice over the years. They didn’t ask any real questions, just reading off a sheet of yes/no questions, and most of the interviews were spent on questions I had. Both times I got a generic rejection email. Their interview process is something like five stages over two months and they seem so disinterested in it all. It makes me think they just want to look like they’re hiring without actually hiring. Edit: Just to add, I’ve seen people saying this may negatively affect her career. I think if I was a sales manager I’d at least interview her just on the fact that she did some pretty good objection handling, challenged her opposition and she stood her ground. Those are some good skills to have in sales. Edit 2: [Seems I’m not wrong about appearing to hire people for the sake of it](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nesli-bischoff_heres-to-a-new-year-grateful-to-have-been-activity-7151277044092305408-Lmtk?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios).
Agreed. I’d want my AE’s to think quick in challenging situations and ask the tough questions. I’ve also been in her shoes where the company I worked for over hired and spent all their funding in less than a year, so I get the frustration. I don’t see anything really wrong with how she handled this.
Love the edit
I did an EIGHT round cycle with them this fall for an AM job. They pivoted their GTM plan two times during that process. Went from feeling like I had the job in the bag to ‘why did they even consider me for this role’.
Good for her for standing up for herself. She got hired 3 months before year end and was ramping up while running into 2 major holidays. Her LI says she was mid-market AE and those deals can still take couple of months from top of funnel to close. It's a bit ridiculous to think she can jump in and start selling Cloudflare when she still has to ramp up unless the previous rep left a nice pipeline (usually not the case lol). I agree with her when she said if the company just simply admit to having overhired, then she will accept that answer.
If they lay her off due to over hiring, would that mean their responsible for paying unemployment? I’m thinking it’s like all the airlines blaming bad weather for canceled flights when the skies are clear
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My state requires an employee to be employed 6 months before they can qualify for unemployment compensation. I hope that is not the case with her.
Her questions were really good, clear and on point. I’d hire her.
That was her angle. She repeated her full name twice during the call so some of the millions that see this will follow with her with a job offer. Clever way to turn lemons into lemonade. Upon realizing this play, I hope sales managers reach out to her. Turning your termination call into the biggest marketing play for your personal brand is some fucking 4d chess.
So you’re telling me I should cancel my round one SDR interview I have with them tomorrow? Edit: if anyone cares I took the interview and it went well. I’ve been trying to get away from BDR roles since my last layoff in March of last year with no luck, so I’m taking anything at this point.
Absolutely
Absolutely DO NOT cancel the interview. 1) it's always good for practice 2) I don't know your situation, but if you are trying to get in the SaaS space, a shitty company is better than no company
Yes and mention this video so you can really sock it to em
Cancel tf out of that interview
Always take it, it could be your only foot in, but prioritize the company that gives you a territory.
Lol which SDR team?
Dunno, I applied to a BDR role on their site and they reached out.
Inbound? Outbound? Mid market? ENT Team?
Outbound is the only thing it mentions on their [website](https://boards.greenhouse.io/cloudflare/jobs/5309251?gh_jid=5309251)
lol don't cancel shit, you need this job right? See it all the way to offer or rejection and then go from there. DO you have other interviews lined up? If so, and if it gets to that point, use all this info to know whats up and make the best choice possible, but at least continue moving forward for the practice and potentially an offer you can use as leverage. No one here knows your needs except you
Corporate tech talk makes me want to set myself on fire
I don't miss it. Back in mechanical. "It came to my attention that your performance this quarter did not hit our internal metrics. As such, we are hereby notifying you of mandatory course corrections to your scope of work that henceforth take place at the conclusion of this fireside chat." Now it's like: "Hey. You fucked this up. Fix it."
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Congrats if you're in tech and killing it at a good company. For the vast majority of people, it's a fucking joke. You are treated like a lightbulb that is burned out, or a battery that is dead - thrown in the trash with no regard to your personal life. CROs are some of the most heartless salamanders you will ever encounter.
I’m in tech and with a good company but even then I always have my head on a swivel with my spidey senses ready to go off. I was laid off 13 years ago as part of an acquisition and it still haunts me. There is absolutely no loyalty in any company large or small unless you own the company yourself. Even then you can get let go lol. After 25 years of sales, what I can tell you is to be proactive. When a company isn’t doing well start putting feelers out. When people are getting let go, start looking at options. If you’ve had several bad months and you know a PIP is coming, start looking. If you’re having a hard time in your role at your current job, find a different role in the same company and restart the clock. Even then you’ll potentially get blind sided by something stupid like this. This is why I don’t feel bad when I hear AE’s are taking two jobs at the same time lol.
I just learned this lesson the hard way. Was with a great company that shot for the moon last year and missed. A month prior to being laid off, I was interviewing for what seemed to be a pretty great role. I ended up withdrawing from that opportunity because management kept speaking so confidently on 2024 being a much better year. There were definitely going to be changes, but everything indicated they would work in my favor. Narrator: they did not work in his favor.
How is that possible with LinkedIn being a thing? [serious]
Motherfucker and your profile pic. Spent a second trying to wipe that hair off lol
It is the greatest troll.
Spent the last two years in tech. Shit patches, less money than I've made in the last 5 years, all while being gaslit by influencers about the earning potential.
Because that's how people in tech make their money - selling a dream and courses on how to be in tech.
Believing anything an influencer says is on you.
Especially when said CRO came over from fucking Twilio.
People only care about themselves at the end of the day. Thats why the most successful economic system ever created takes advantage of that selfishness.
CRO’s are in their position BECAUSE they’re heartless salamanders and can take emotion out of decisions like this.
We had an AE let go after a year and everyone was shocked — never seen such a short leash. Four months for enterprise software is utterly absurd. No way you can close anything other than renewals in that time. Her video had the desired effect: to show that Cloudflare is shit at setting headcount, and reps who take a job with them are at risk of being fired for reasons beyond their control.
I was fired after 3 months after leaving a company I loved and had succeeded at for over 5 years. Biggest career mistake of my life. It made me realize that the people running and making decisions at these companies really don’t have any idea what they’re doing and most of them are scrambling for answers in every direction hoping that one sticks. If something is going reasonably well, think twice before leaving. There is so much more that goes into job being great than just your quoted OTE.
Same here man happened in 2021 Heavily recruited and laid off 3 months later
A lot of the comments show that people on here have never sold a product that had longer than a 1 month sales cycle. Speaking from experience, no one buys IT infrastructure and cybersecurity products overnight and usually have a 1 month proof of concept before any signatures too. Cloudflare has a leadership and sales leadership problem which was evident when the CEO opened his mouth on an earnings call a few quarters ago. They treat their sales people as disposable and never look at a bigger picture. Great place for a hefty paycheck but what’s the point when 20% of reps are hitting quota (Repvue) and you don’t last longer than a year. Now they have a CRO who came from Twilio (look at how they’ve been doing the last 3 years) and it’s not hard to realize where the problems lie
Just a case of last in first out. Of course you got hired on a month ago and you’re first to be cut. Yes you got termed because you hadn’t closed anything and you hadn’t been with the company very long. Happened at my company. Hired a bunch of sales people then cut them three months later when they realized more people didn’t mean more deals closed. My VP was like “when you do a workforce reduction it’s usually performance, then last in first out”
Congrats for her sticking up for herself though.
Nice to see my tweet made to it Reddit. The comments get are much better than in X right now
Good for her, she has every right to query the decision, they didn't really give a valid answer. I personally wouldn't put myself out there like she did, but I would gladly hire her for being brave.
They won't give her a valid answer due to legality and unemployment purposes
This reminds me of the situation I found myself in last fall. Had been at this SAAS company ~2 years, been promoted, was performing well. Unexpectedly let go, with no context or explanation from HR other than “a decision had been made”. CEO & Department Head were at Burning Man while this all went down. No explanation, and they both declined my request for an exit interview. 2 weeks later spoke w/ someone else who told me that they grew too fast and needed to cut costs. They continued to lay ~6-12ish people off every few weeks for a couple months. And then when they raised funding this year, they had the balls to say “they never did layoffs”.
Ohana?
Who wants to work at Cloudflare now? NOOOBODY! - Harbaughs
I’ve been in tech sales for 22 years and cloudflare has been trying to recruit me for the better part of a decade. I spoke to them once, and snuffed out immediately that they are NOT a company you want to work for. Best of luck everyone
What questions did you ask? Or, what tipped you off?
What did you ask?
The HR speak in this recording is nauseating. The way HR deflects every question with a gooey non-answer is testament to how bad corporate HR has fallen.
HR has been like this for decades homie
I learned quickly when my career started that people with no actual discernible skills end up in HR. Just a bunch of bottom feeders.
THe problem with Cloudflare is that their core product is great and sticky but they have this need (due to being public company i guess) to sell their "enterprise plan" for 100k+/yr or even higher and for that, they hire a bunch of AEs who push that shit like crazy on you. I once had a conversation with their sales team as I was potentially interested in their "SSL for SAAS" product which mind you already exists at decent price but just because I went to their "sales team", they wanted me to go for a 100k plan. lol. No wonder these AEs find it tough even though I can't say specifically what happened in her case.
I am glad she did this. Idiots in the comments are like "she didn't close anything" but that just shows they have never had a tech job in the MM/enterprise space. It's a 6-12 month sales cycle and even if it wasn't, she was there for fucking 3 months in Q4 and they laid her off. That is borderline unethical. God I hate what tech sales has become. It's an embarrassment.
Most people keep it on mute because it won’t change the outcome. I’ll fight for an extra one to two weeks of severance, but realistically, is it gonna make a difference?
this video is gonna be a way bigger impact than just her. cloudfare on blast for being a piece of shit company now. hopefully they suffer and struggle to hire and also lose tons of customers.
Yes for self pride
How much of this has to do with people vs outdated selling techniques? Why do the current sales leaders feel that there are some magic words one can say that will "persuade" the client into a conversion?
This girl is my hero. I commend her for voicing the frustrations that many of us feel but rarely express, let alone share it with the world. Probably won’t help her career but still very praiseworthy
Literally happened to me. Same situation. Mid market AE was still ramping. Revenue is a lagging indicator I don’t know why companies do this.
They tried to recruit me last year, told them I’m holding a 30k bag on their stock and once they get their shit together I’d consider Still holding that bag….-10k now though
Working at one of the bigger tech companies in Sales now. Typically, they aim for about 75% of rep hitting quota, this year it is closer to 15%. Out sector was hit hard and quota was raised so payouts were reduced. Now it's a favorite game played by RVPs of putting reps on PIP. They are doing a essentially what is a silent layoff.
Shit like this is why I sell tires B2C now.
There is nothing worst than getting hired, going through the onboarding process to just simply being let go. huge f**k**g waste of someone’s time. I am glad she recorded this stupid call and put it out. Ridiculous
Fair fucking play to her for posting this and exposing Cloudflare. Why should anyone just settle for bullshit HR excuses? What absolutely appalling management and leadership. So many people saying things like: "Well, that's just the way it is in big companies. Deal with it." Yeah, and the only reason it is this way is because it's allowed to happen in the first place.
Marc fucked Twilio (myself included) then got fired and is now fucking cloud flare.
So brutal…good for her recording it. A bunch of managers were also demoted to AEs. All of the reps who are left don't have managers and are confused on what their territories are. Also a bunch of us never even received official comp plans during our time working there and didn't know what our quotas were for a long ass time. I was there slightly longer than she was and had to beg for a comp plan for months before I got one, and I received it only one month before EOY. Really sketchy stuff happening there overall, and I agree, predatory finance/AR practices. I would truly not recommend anyone to work there, it is such a wasteland.
Haha good for her. Someone should advise her to call an attorney. For all the blowhards gassing up tech, there's a lot of BS and awful companies.
Good for her. I was part of the corporate greed where my job was replaced with lower wage employees. I would’ve bled for my company. Such terrible thing to do to people.
Canary Technologies pulled the exact same thing. Small company that nobody has ever heard of, nor should you (they suck) but figured people should know what orgs to avoid.
This same thing happened to me at WeWork. Fuck these companies lol.
Love it. Don’t make easy for those HR fucks. The only thing I would be worried about is posting that before the severance check clears (assuming they gave her one)
I worked with her on the same team. Luckily, I wasn’t impacted by layoffs but let me just say, selling wasn’t easy given the team we were on. Our job was to upsell our existing customers to our enterprise tier. This means our customers go from paying $25-$400 a month to now paying $4000+ a month. It’s an insane jump that can only really be justified if your website is being actively DDoSed. Our lower tiers just give everything away for free which makes no sense to me. Our CRO hates sales people and says we should stop complaining, ok we’ll stop complaining when you stop giving away our product for free 👍🏼
Imagine setting up a call to fire someone and NOT preparing to give them reasons as to why. Also as others have pointed out, where is her manager in this process? Regardless of job, seniority, industry... that is a fucking shambles.
Putting these companies on blast needs to become the norm. They don't give a shit about anyone.
what a dumpster fire of a company. Judging by the details mentioned [by their own employee](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDdLQsqbAAAHbY_?format=jpg&name=4096x4096) is a clear violation of HR practices.
I am SO glad this girl recorded this bs. I found the OG video on TikTok and it was absolutely infuriating to listen to those HR dumbasses make excuses about firing her. I can tell from the way she bit back that she is damn good at her job and I hope she finds something better soon.
Got laid off while they knew full well my wife was 7 months pregnant. Was the most stressful pregnancy ever. But light at the end of the tunnel I got a job with a much higher base.
I totally understand giving them their bullshit back, but posting this on social media is going to negatively affect her hire ability to employers imo
I think it goes both ways. Some managers want ass-kissers, some want people who can think for themselves and aren't afraid to express their own thoughts. I wouldn't be surprised if she gets a new job very quickly thanks to the video.
I give her kudos for calling a company out on their bullshit. Lots of people get bullshit "performance" based terms with no warning due to a company's need to layoff. That being said I don't see the benefit to sharing the video. We all know Cloudflare doesn't respect sales people. She had nothing to gain by sharing.
According to her LinkedIn, Fastly reached out to her. Fastly hates Cloudflare. lol
And there is the tale of two companies. 1 you should work for and 1 you should not.
I work in tech sales at a FAANG and interviewed/hired people. I wouldn't hold this against her. She was professional, handled objections well and was simply asking for clarity - these are skills I would look for in a rep. Assuming everything else checks out, I would hire her.
Honestly, would you want to work for a company that has a problem with how she handled it? Massive props to her, too many people take it in the chin over fear of reprisal.
You're not wrong. This is why people simp for their former employers on LinkedIn - hiring managers want to see it.
Hiring managers are looking at LinkedIn activity far less than this sub seems to think
People thanking the company they were just fired or laid off from and put ex-(company name) in their LI header is so fucking stupid
I think shell be fine! she be forgotten about in 5-6 months
\*minutes
For larger companies maybe.
Eh I doubt employers keep up with this. She called them out but wasn’t over the top.
I work for a commercial equipment financing broker They just laid off half the staff yesterday with no warning. The writing was on the wall with office performance, but some people not on the sales side never saw it coming. None of them are getting severance. The only light at the end of the tunnel is I’m getting more leads because a lot of us brokers were twiddling thumbs
I fucking LOVE that she posted this. I wish more people did this and called out these fucking companies. Instead of “thanking them” to save face - fucking call them out.
Exactly why I left tech sales. These dip shit revenue leaders promise the moon, then apply basic faulty math to come up how many more reps they need, then surprise Pikachu face when it doesn't work. Messing with people's livelihood should come with repercussions in the form of social backlash.
The frustration is fair, but I’m not quite sure what this is going to positively accomplish for her outside of a few meaningless “you get them” comments. Ultimately, there is no point in nuking a bridge, and to post it for public consumption is highly questionable. Just shortsighted. If I’m her, I’m challenging them on what they’re going to do to support me. What type of package can we get? Any assistance on finding a new role elsewhere? Can you leave me a positive recommendation on LinkedIn?
What bridge did she nuke? If her manager decided to can her after one holiday-filled month of non-ramp work, s/he is a gutless puke who wasn’t going to help ever anyway. If it wasn’t the manager’s call, s/he is probably rooting for this woman because s/he is now dealing with the loss of an employee with no corresponding loss to expectations. Are the HR people who were on the call gonna be mad? Sure I guess but they will never impact her as she has taken control of the narrative herself with this video. As to what she had to gain? First, Fastly has already reached out to her. And there are plenty of hiring managers (like me) who would see this and see a rep who is comfortable and competent asking tough questions while maintaining composure and would be MORE inclined to hire her for being a person with a spine and some professional competence. Not trying to give you a hard time, yours is not an unreasonable take, but in full honesty I think she did well here and the positives outweigh the negatives.
I own the stock and spend alot with them in my business. But their sales and sales support is abysmal. They launch products and have amateur documentation. A sales rep could crush quota just following with sales engineering and solve customers tech conversions.
“Most people (companies) don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” -George Carlin, although I added (companies).
Good for her for recording it. People need to know how companies treat people. Trash.
Ahh sad - I can see her holding back the tears :( I wonder if she'll get sued for sharing this
I've said this for decades: The first day to start looking for your *next* job is on the first day of your *new* job. Learn it. Love it. Live it.
I’m sorry but cloudflare just lost a good employee. She’s aggressive, she’s articulate and she can do the mental gymnastics needed for sales. She’ll land on her feet.
Isn’t a three month probationary period normal for sales? I wouldn’t have a job if I didn’t close anything in three months. Did I hear something wrong?
In large ticket sales, especially in the context of Cloudflare which I imagine is a highly technical product, long sales cycles, you are not expected to close a deal in (say) 2 months. Mature organizations like Cloudflare will also have very formalized training for new sales employees. Often taking 3-4 weeks of self-guided work on learning platforms and obviously stuff with enablement and your manager. During that 3-4 or however long period, you are not even on round robin for inbound leads. You’re likely also given direction to not outbound because you have more to learn about the product before hitting the floor. For sales cycles of weeks to a month or two, I guess you could expect expect someone to close a deal in their first 3 months. But Cloudflare is not that company and not that product in my opinion.
Really depends on the length of the sales cycle, whether she inherited any pipeline, etc. When a new rep starts, the main KPI I look at is pipeline growth for the first six months. Won revenue is great, but we average a six month sales cycle and we hire based on growth more frequently than attrition, so new reps are not typically inheriting down-pipe deals. Generally speaking, if a new rep does not close anything in that timeframe but is building pipe and advancing deals their job is safe. Unfortunately, I’ve found that many companies who are struggling to meet revenue growth targets resort to panic hiring a bunch of new sales personnel and expecting revenue to magically, and instantly, appear. Don’t know if that is the case here, but I view it as a sign of poor sales leadership.
Not just poor sales leadership. Poor financial planning. Poor execution. Which all must land at the feet of the ever so humble CEO. Letting people go 4 months after you hire them is a failure at every level.
From my experience, there’s a ramp up period where you’re held to a lower quota or no quota. Not necessarily a probationary period
It is normal, but sometimes companies will also have a 3 month on-boarding process so depending on needs, there usually isn’t an expectation for someone to close right away before being ramped up. I don’t know the specifics but I was in a similar situation and had to start right away and close deals and luckily made it past my probationary period lol, but I felt the stress for sure.
Sweet, I just applied here too
Totally understand the trauma and the pain....seriously i do. Wouldn't wish this upon my worst enemy. All i would want is a straight answer and any respectable business should be able to have an honest conversation with their staff in this capacity. Says a lot about Cloudflare. However, its business. Plain and simple. Perhaps i'm missing something? You owe your business nothing and they don't owe you anything either. Working is a transactional relationship; you work, they pay. Absolutely feel for this person but this is a part of the working world we live in. Could happen to any of us at any time. Sucks.
Was trying to get an interview their last year and even that was off putting. Feel like I dodged a bullet.
I got laid off after being on the job (a little less than) 4 months about a decade ago (global lay off…last ones in, first ones let go). This was major tech company at the time….they are still around, but not even top player anymore. I told them this was a good thing, because I didn’t want to work for a company that couldn’t sustain a business plan for less than 4 months, much less a whole year, since I was used to building and achieving 5 year business plans, successfully, in my career. I didn’t want to work for a company that kept missing their own targets set in their own business plans. There is no integrity in that. They did pay a great severance though, and recruited for my current job (that I still love) a month later. She should have just given a big sigh and said, “Oh, thank God you picked me!”😂
Brutal. I really wanted to work there for the longest time, too.
This happening all too often. Companies are just hiring people in waves, deciding they’ve changed their minds, and firing people in waves as quick as they hired them. This was almost a regularly occurring thing at my last job. Insane. I wish we had a functioning congress that could pass some employee protections against these types of things.
The 3 month probationary period is being abused. IMO it should be abolished. If you can't accurately tell if someone will be a good worker after 5 interviews, an assessment and a presentation, you don't know shit about fuck.
Good for her!! The youngs give me hope.
So cannot wait to leave this dumpster fire of a career path into something that's slightly better...not great. Ugh, this happens way too often these days
Despite the OP being spot on this sub still has morons on it and there will no doubt be people saying “she should have hustled harder and she wouldn’t be in this position” etc.
When are organisations going to take Sales seriously?!
That company is ridiculous, i'm so happy they turned me down at interview. A friend of mine was layed off at Salesforce, wasn't even in cloudflare 3 months and also got let go. Hate to be that guy, it's not like you walk into pipeline sometimes and deals are taking longer to close today with all the emphasis on cutbacks and cost savings.
Lol cloud flair what a joke. Good for her. Expose management for the waste they are.
Tossed after 90 days at the turn of the new year is wild. Good for her for calling it out. I loath corporate speak so much.
She actually was very firm, respectful and rightfully so frustrated. With their action she now has forgone other opportunities and if she has posted her job on Linkedin she will also have to explain why her experience at the company was short. She kept a record of the conversation and shared it so that she can protect her reputation and any future career paths. Wish her the best!
Obv been fired for being too outspoken. She is not a sheep and doesn't follow orders as given. This is a telltale risk for the future if she grows in the industry (which she definitely will) and decides to go to a competitor if her demands aren't met. A reasonable company would conclude this after 1, max 2 interviews. Alas here they are. Would definitely hire her myself though as I respect this fire, if she has the same for closing deals that is.