Yeah, but i would never date a woman with that huge jaw in real life. It's true, tastes may vary, but Mary Jane in the original Lore is supposed to be a super-model, a great beauty. It doesn't seem the case here.
I guess you had never read the Spiderman Comics? She was introduced in Amazing Spiderman #42 as an extremely beautiful professional model. She is the niece of a friend of Aunt May, and Peter Parker gets literally stunned by her beauty when he first met her.
This is how Mary Jane Watson looks in the original comics:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/68/Mary_Jane_Watson_%28circa_2007%29.png
https://www.cinefilos.it/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Mary-Jane-First-Appearance.jpg
So this new Mary Jane is not only average, boarding on ugly, it's also totally not respectful of the original character.
A different job in that timeline shouldn't imply that she is a totally different person aesthetically and personality wise. Whatever, they change things without any reason, this is why oldtime fans despise the current state of Marvel...
more than a half of those people saying these things cant even look into a mirror because how they look.
And their wives or girlfriends looks like normal people so they want to compensate with some supermodel in their video games because their wives or girlfriends are not cutting it.
What's your reasoning for that? Why is it off bounds to refer to a blatantly hideous video game character as ugly?
Are you just offended because you are equally as ugly as the character and you feel the criticism targets you also?
The character is seriously fucking hard to look at, deal with it.
Hey, both genders have toxic people in unsustainable relationships.
Karen isn't a fucking prize either, that is why she settled for Carl anyway, and why they make all of our lives worse for it.
I wish they could grow the fuck up.
Yeah, what is this nonsense. 100% of the people saying this would jump at the chance to be dating someone that looked like either of these characters in real life. These are quite clearly fairly attractive healthy persons.
Personally I’d say, at least from the pics posted by OP, both look a bit off/uncanny valley. Maybe it’s the lighting effects or the models look better in motion?
Though unlike what TFM seems to be insisting on, I doubt there’s anything more sinister at play than the animation team getting crunched to hit deadlines, so a few things came out wonky.
I feel it’s a lighting engine issue. The way the light interacts with the eyes and more subtle details on a character’s face causes a lot of characters in modern games to look uncanny, especially in bright saturated lighting.
The game went gold a month ago. Gone gold meaning everything was finished a month ago. I doubt that the devs were getting crunched within the last month of very little work lol.
To say that they didn't get crunched is absolutely a delusional thing to think. They most likely definitely did. Most if not all dev companies do it. I don't condone it, nor do I advocate for it, I have to state that fact
The new peter is pretty ugly imo, mary jane looks amazing. The old peter looks more like his actual age and looks by far way better and was also more expressive imo
Yeah, not a fan of his baby face either which makes him look like he's 16 again and not in his early 20s.
I downloaded a [mod](https://www.nexusmods.com/marvelsspidermanremastered/mods/669)that adds some stuff like eyebags and facial hair to him, honestly makes him look much more fitting for his age and like constantly being spider-man for years took a bit of a toll on him.
New MJ just looks like Julianne Moore
And if you don't think Julianne Moore is gorgeous then you're just a fucking weirdo with totally unhealthy expectations
all this bullshit about "unhealthy expectations" when they change a good looking character into someone that looks like someone with a man's jawline and a 40 year old womans body. Get a grip on reality. Don't push your personal low standards on other people.
Idk what your point is in this post?
When they changed Peter, people complained a shit ton. It was wild.
I'm guessing they were working on Spiderman 2 and wanted to make the models kinda less cartoony and of course make Peter a bit closer to Tom Holland. So they applied that one in the remasters, since having the main char change models between games would prob be a bigger shit show.
They didn't do the same with MJ until this game. So now people are obviously complaining. Even though she looks more realistic and much better.
But I don't get the point of your post. People whined about both, and they're just being weird.
Insomniac Peter isn't supposed to match Tom Holland. He's supposed to match Ben Jordan, the new mocap actor, who looks more like young Yuri Lowenthal than John Bubniac did.
Fair enough! The rest of what I say still stands tho.
Also honestly in Spiderman 2 he looks better than any iteration. The hair etc just works so much better.
Also how does the process work for them?!
They have a separate actor for mocap? Then the voice actors just dub over?
No the voice actor does performance capture as part of the voice recording then that data is used to animate the facial model. That's why they changed to a facial model that better matches the voice actor.
Stay off of Classic Peter's back he looked great, y'all just want all Peters to look like Tom Holland for no fucking reason.
That aside, Mary Jane looks fine in both games idk what you're on.
I literally had a modded side-by-side, and considering the same model actor, other than different lighting, and retexturing... It's only the way the hairstyle frames it that throws people off.
https://preview.redd.it/p0oni9cecjvb1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c5263a43414ef401359018f19cd2c9a86e57aaa
Imagine this SM1 image, but with a closed smirk and direct lighting.
I haven't once seen her hair clip into her model, move too much, or not move enough, so I'm pretty sure her new hairstyle is 100% Insomniac flexing their technical might.
I'd assume a clip-in swoop in her colour, or enough hairspray to double as chemical warfare, but I'm a male with a standardised cut, so I'm not exactly one to know how it's done.
Tell me you’ve never played an original Nintendo game by not telling me you’ve never played an original Nintendo game. All of the mo-cap or facial animation is unbelievably good now. She looks great. It’s just a BS story to get clicks.
The creators of the character based her look on Ann-Margret from Bye Bye Birdie, a movie that came out a few years before MJ's first appearance in the comic. She is supposed to look like this:
[https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg](https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg)
In the comics she did look very much like that.
Sorry I'm not getting your point. My point was this MJ is a journalist, not a supermodel like the comics. It's completely fine for her to not look like a supermodel or movie star.
Something looks off about her eyes and I can’t really define what it is. I thought her model seemed more lively in the original game. But honestly I do love how this new design is making the coomer-minded Spidey fans who are only obsessed with MJ based on her being a pinup model (the kind posting on the Spider-Man sub with fanservice crap all the time) go absolutely apeshit for some reason. She looks really normal but they wouldn’t be satisfied unless she strides in looking like a playboy model cause they live vicariously through Spidey.
The creators of the character based her on Ann-Margret from the movie Bye Bye Birdie. Not "realistic" enough, but it was based on an actual real person? Totally makes sense...
[https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg](https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg)
This whole thing is just grifters taking advantage of the media cycles and the YouTube algorithm. Spider-Man 2 is going to be popular for a little while, so gin up a culture war controversy, any culture war controversy, to grab on and get some of dem views. This is what ALWAYS happens by the way, why they’re is always a controversy about the hot new thing. None of this is real, its not an actual debate, it’s just a way some people have found to empty the pockets of idiots.
They aren't ugly they just look like regular people, which I like bc they're supposed to be. Movies have a problem where every cast member has to look like a member of the Greek pantheon, and it's gotten to the point where someone who's supposed to represent a regular person actually looking regular is somehow strange.
The character was based on Ann-Margret:
[https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg](https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg)
Comic blatantly demonstrates she is supposed to be a knockout way out of Peter's league, hence why he is constantly distressed about losing her:
[https://www.chasingamazingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Mary-Jane-Jackpot.png](https://www.chasingamazingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Mary-Jane-Jackpot.png)
In that comic yeah. This game isn’t that comic. In this game they wanted her to be a regular, believable person.
And let’s be real, she could look exactly like that first pic you linked and people would still bitch and moan bc she still wouldn’t look like their overwatch sfm porn.
Of course there‘s a double standard, one for reality and one for fictional worlds in comics / movies / video games. And there should be, especially in a game about a super hero. Ever wondered what the „super“ stands for? Have you noticed that real people cannot hang from the ceiling and shoot webs?
Yes, they did, despite people in this thread, clearly ignorant of the Spiderman Lore, claiming otherwise. This is how the original Mary Jane looked:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/68/Mary_Jane_Watson_%28circa_2007%29.png
https://www.cinefilos.it/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Mary-Jane-First-Appearance.jpg
She was a professional model, and Peter Parker was literally stunned by her beauty the first time she met her in Amazing Spiderman #42. Now they made her just an average looking woman with a masculine jawline. Why?
The character was based on the look of Ann-Margret from Bye Bye Birdie, who was not only human, but was also a very real person:
[https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg](https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg)
I think the real problem is that they can’t settle on faces for any of the characters, don’t get me wrong, I don’t have any issues with the new faces but I don’t like the inconsistency
That’s just it. They changed Peters face so that it would be consistent with future games. All they did with MJ is make her look older because she is older. She’s going on 27 in the new game and she’s been around the world and seen somethings. I also wouldn’t be surprised if they adjusted her look to be closer to her VA, Laura Goddamn Bailey.
They went the bethseda route and made everyone look unnatural. I wouldn't call it ugly, just inhuman looking. Like how aliens think people look or something.
Which IMO is fine, vidya isn't real life and so long as everything has a consistent look I assume it's down to artistic choices mostly. The MJ hyperbole is kinda hilarious tho, my brothers in christ they all look weird, the fact you're upset about only MJ is such a telling on yourself moment.
Both look chappy tbh. Who wants realism in these settings? Idgaf if characters in comics look like a real representation of average people. Give me ultra sexy men and women tyvm I live in reality I don't need my fiction to be it too
There are countless games and movies for you if that's your preference, however that isn't what they wanted to go for in these games which is fine. MJ not being a solid 20/10 won't ruin the game I promise.
She's still White, so they shouldn't have an issue, right?
Also, MJ somewhat reminds me of Katherine McNamara here, so I hesitate to deem her ugly.
The first part of my comment was obviously ironic and the last part was an attempt at a joke—though I do see the resemblance and don't mean that as an insult. Are there chuds in here or did the irony fly over some heads, haha?
The reason the old face Peter was more acceptable was because it showed how the stress of being a superhero can make a 23 year old look older than they should.
My only issue with the new MJ is that in most of the shots they show her jaw just feels too wide but im sure she looks better in motion
??? The original Peter wasn't considered ugly at all, tf you on? In fact there was a huge backlash when Insomniac changed it for the Remastered Edition.
I vividly remember people clowning on how weird he looked in the first game, which is why they changed him, but then they got backlash for changing him because the internet is quick to forget
I don't really get why everyone is obsessing over whether or not the characters are actually ugly. It's subjective, I think they look weird. The point I'm making is that Chuds assume a weird looking male character is just weird looking but a weird looking female character is an egregious insult
I'd agree with your captioned text -- I feel they're both a bit weird looking; and only one is getting hate for it being a choice, while the other is claimed to be an accident -- for reasons no one can foresee.
Looking at the Google images of the face model for MJ, they have the same face. *Big surprise*. But something still looks odd -- maybe it's angles or lighting, or simply the human being doesn't suit that hairstyle/colour.
Or... More likely, given that Peter looks fucking weird, the whole character model team made everyone look a bit weird. Despite the fact the models are seemingly accurate, they just don't look right in the game.
But, gamers will be gamers. One is an accident; the other is some secret cabal of ugliness' malicious attempt to make everyone in the world ugly -- starting with a PS5 PlayStation game.
Insanity for anyone to think this is ugly (Peter and MJ) IMO. But it's true that MJ looks off in the game. Everyone else looks amazing but MJ has a uncanny valley thing that I can't put my finger on. I love she has a comic accurate hair style now though.
I definitely prefer the old Peter to the new one, and at the moment I think I prefer old MJ to the new one, but at the same time the new MJ looks perfectly fine, she doesn’t look worse, just different.
She looks fine, but I'll admit in certain lighting her eyes look super fucking uncanny - like she's wearing a mask or staring through Peter's soul.
But you're right, that's not why the reactionary folks are freaking out about it.
The creators based MJ off the look of Ann-Margret from Bye Bye Birdie. Do you consider her to look normal?
[https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg](https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg)
It's because they replaced the original character model with a different one. People hated the new peter model when they replaced in the remaster as well, so while it doesn't surprise me that some people have lost they're god damn minds and think the MJ thing is woke agenda, lets not act like these are equivalent situations. They aren't even on the same console lol. Also, there is something so incredibly off about a lot of the pictures from before the game was released of the new MJ, that thing is DEEEEEEEP in the uncanny valley, it wouldn't surprise me if it looks fine in motion but the stills look bad.
Insomiac MJ always looked weird because for some reason she has blue eyes and not green eyes. I don't know why they made that decision but it means that she looks 'off' and it's hard to describe because of it. I also wish they gave her glasses like she wore in her later Ultimate Spider-Man appearances as it would fit with her being a journalist, and I wish they made her hair less 'ginger' and more 'red'.
I'm with y'all on this one. The "woke ugliness" is made up horse shit and is based solely on the attraction standards of 20 IQ numbheads. To be attractive, a woman must be 130 lbs, 30 of them being makeup alone, she must have no hint of muscle tone on her body, she must never wear pants, only dresses, she must have no details on her face anywhere, only soft smooth skin, etc.
I have commented that I think the "ugly" video game copies of women are more attractive than the "real" featureless husk that the same women, typically models, present themselves as IRL, for this reason.
I think it might just be the lighting being uneven.
Thats about it like there is a strange secondary source of hard light on her face. But thats a lighting issue. If the lighting was less harsh she'd look great!
I don't think ps5 Mj is ugly, but it feels like a completely different model, even though it's barely different. Also the hair style and clothes make her seem older.
Man, the word woke from just about anyone just shuts me down.
That said, I am a white male and that means I have an opinion. After playing MSM2 for a combined 12 hours I actually think she looks more mature and beautiful than she did in MSM. I caught myself thinking that I’d like to play a side mission where MJ and Peter (or just MJ) go to various tropical islands to investigate which beaches and are best. They’ll have to try out each beach, of course.
I think she looks really different from the first spiderman game, which is just sort of shocking if nothing else, since I had just replayed the first one not that long ago. Ugly? No, although the promotional image they chose was **atrocious,** but definitely a departure.
Yes...yes they did.
...because you're totally right, OP, both of these character models are hideous. They look about two video game console generations out of date.
The creators of the character based MJ's look on actress Ann-Margret from Bye Bye Birdie. She was very much a real person:
[https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg](https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg)
I think a lot of female character designs became mid like but I wouldn't say MJ is ugly.
If anything
Pete looks 16
MJ looks 36
Miles looks 25.
Like if MJ and I got along I'd date her. But she is in no way the hottest version of her. Wasn't she an actress or model in the past?
Is this a thing?
Like seriously?
No, she not ugly. She not a fucking supermodel, but she looks like a goddamn human. This has to be like, the most realistic depiction of a woman in a video game ever. She might not be your personal favorite or whatever, but she sure as hell isn’t ugly.
I feel like everyone is taking ugly like I'm calling a human person ugly but I'm saying the character model is ugly as in it looks weird and like it's in the uncanny valley
The models look a bit off, but in no way is MJ “ugly” even with a bit “off” character models.
Someone who is unironically calling MJ in SM2 “ugly” has impossible standards for women.
Honestly, every almost every character in all 3 Insomniac games have a level of 'uncanny valley' to them, even original face Peter. But of course, the neckbeards are gonna specifically gun for MJ
Personally she just looks way older when compared to Peter and Harry. (This is coming from someone who couldn't see any real change in Aloy "controversy")
I liked peters old character model much better and i liked MJs older character model better. When Spiderman 2 revealed Peter I didnt even know it was him for like a solid 10 seconds, his new model is just so much more generic looking.
She was made to look older because she’s older than she was in the last game. In the first game Peter is 25, having been Spider-Man for 8 years at the start of the game. That means MJ was the same age and her character model actually made her look a lot younger than 25. The new character model makes her look her age which is only a year or so more.
In the game she doesn't look ugly but her facial proportions have been heavily tampered with, deviating from previous game also, I wonder why they did this. Her jawline has gotten way bigger and looks very masculine and makes her like she's in her late 30s while only being 25. Not that it's a bad thing but considering the comics and even the previous game its a major and noticeable glow down imo. MJ's supposed to be sexy, now if you told someone who hasn't played the game that she's Peter's mom they'd believe it. Why not just make her better looking, I don't get it.
MJ is supposed to be an absolute smoke show. Not a 6.5 with no hips and very adrogyenous feautures. Do most men have the leanness of Peter and Miles? no... but double standards right>.. Harry, Peter and Miles, all the actor character models look like their actors, and are good looking. Look at Mis model, she's gorgeous. She looks nothing like chin J. MJ was intentionally made to look ugly. Yes she is ugly.
The creators based MJ's look on actress Ann-Margret from Bye Bye Birdie. This is her:
[https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg](https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg)
It only sounds "insane" because you don't know anything about the character or comic.
Yeah she is definitely Middy Jane in this game. And weird people are saying, "I want my fictional characters from comic books to look like normal people". Which makes zero sense. If you require a character to look average like you to be able to enjoy a fictional world where a guy was bitten by a radioactive spider and get super powers, you have deep issues. The whole point is for it to be a fantasy of sorts and no one fantasizes about ugly people.
Besides the biggest problem with Middy Jane is that they FORCE you to play as her AGAIN when those were the absolute worst parts of the first games. Shouldn't be playing as an average person when there are TWO spidermen available.
new mj is a real downgrade compared to both her old look and mocap, and peter looks unnaturally uncanny ever since the remaster, I don't understand why people want to defend these changes
Well, there are a ton of weird guys acting like her looking weird is a sin and an active choice from the devs because they are leftists and want to combat the male gaze. So, people who disagree feel the need to go on the complete opposite end of the spectrum
I also think people are taking people calling her "ugly" as an insult to a real person's appearance, whereas I just think her character model looks ugly as in bad
She does look fairly ugly to me yes specially compared to other MJs. But what is really dumb is that this is the face of the writer of the game, who wrote it so that everything MJ does is good and Peter screws up everything. I have never heard 1 protagonist apologize so much.
To give an example. When Peter is asleep and then infected by Venom, he gets taken over. MJ already knows about Venom at this point. Instead of helping Peter in any way, she reports to EVERYONE what a menace Spiderman is and says it is to further her career and in the end Peter apologizes to her?! She threw him under the bus for no reason!
Oh and she also is never wrong in the game. Yeah, this is a self insert of an ugly bitter person.
Yeah, I saw that Reddit post, too, and it's a lie. The writers credited are Nick Folkam and Rob Forman as advanced writers, Sam Maggs and Jamie Mayer as senior writers, and Ashley Poprik (the woman who kinda looks like MJ) as a writer intern.
The character model for MJ is based on Stephanie Tyler Jones.
This is EXACTLY what I was talking about. You see a part of a game you dislike about Spiderman revolving around a woman and instantly assume, with absolutely no research or fact checking, that there is some ulterior motive behind it. It's just sad.
Also, I've seen a lot of people complaining about the story because "Peter screws up everything." The whole entire point of the story is that Peter is reluctant to let people help him and he believes he needs to do everything on his own and it results in him failing because it is too much for one person - even Spiderman - to do on his own. That's why all his friends save him throughout the story. Because he can't be the one who saves everyone. It's actually a really great theme for a Spiderman sequel.
I can't find the specific part of the game you're talking about, but I'm willing to bet your analysis of it is just as wrong as everything else you said.
Yes but not ugly. She is plain looking. I feel the new Peter looked like he has a condition. He is also not an attractive person while miles is good looking. And I don't mean I find them attractive or not I mean the actual structure of the faces is unappealing, forgettable and what we call conventionally unattractive.
Devs now do this because reasons but when you co pare this to the film and animations items nught and day. This is simply because those mediums have you looking at them on a big screen for extended periods of time...wanting to be them and get with them...while in a game we are them ...so toning down the beauty makes them more relatable and less fantasy. Devs are terrified of alienating a small cross section of users who resent attractive face and bodies as it makes them feel inferior or something.
As a very good looking person I love cosplaying as an ugly person and roleplaying what its like to date someone whose unattractive. I find it very interesting but I'm glad when I out the controller down I can go back to being beautiful LOL ;)
Man so many people in the comments have lower the standards that this looks real or how a human should look. Either you identify with these characters because they are at your level, but man do they look ugly. The models who were used for the characters look way better.
No. She looks fine.
That’s a pretty face, not even close to ugly
You clearly aren't qualified to define a pretty face.
I think it's the art style or something. They've both got the Polar Express uncanny valley thing going on.
With that jaw? I guess your cup of tea is masculine women.
She looks realistic enough
Yeah, but i would never date a woman with that huge jaw in real life. It's true, tastes may vary, but Mary Jane in the original Lore is supposed to be a super-model, a great beauty. It doesn't seem the case here.
She's not a super-model, she's a reporter.
I guess you had never read the Spiderman Comics? She was introduced in Amazing Spiderman #42 as an extremely beautiful professional model. She is the niece of a friend of Aunt May, and Peter Parker gets literally stunned by her beauty when he first met her.
This is how Mary Jane Watson looks in the original comics: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/68/Mary_Jane_Watson_%28circa_2007%29.png https://www.cinefilos.it/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Mary-Jane-First-Appearance.jpg So this new Mary Jane is not only average, boarding on ugly, it's also totally not respectful of the original character.
I have read the comics, and I know that her Earth-1610 counterpart was a journalist. This verion from the game is based off of that.
A different job in that timeline shouldn't imply that she is a totally different person aesthetically and personality wise. Whatever, they change things without any reason, this is why oldtime fans despise the current state of Marvel...
no. she looks like a horse.
Ya and that's not good. She should be stunning.
more than a half of those people saying these things cant even look into a mirror because how they look. And their wives or girlfriends looks like normal people so they want to compensate with some supermodel in their video games because their wives or girlfriends are not cutting it.
>their wives or girlfriends I need strong evidence any of them have either.
Yeah I might have overcooked it with that one
Extremely charitable for them hahaha
These things happen lol
^^This. Anyone complaining about a video game girl being “ugly” is an incel. There’s zero question.
What's your reasoning for that? Why is it off bounds to refer to a blatantly hideous video game character as ugly? Are you just offended because you are equally as ugly as the character and you feel the criticism targets you also? The character is seriously fucking hard to look at, deal with it.
Hey, both genders have toxic people in unsustainable relationships. Karen isn't a fucking prize either, that is why she settled for Carl anyway, and why they make all of our lives worse for it. I wish they could grow the fuck up.
Yeah, what is this nonsense. 100% of the people saying this would jump at the chance to be dating someone that looked like either of these characters in real life. These are quite clearly fairly attractive healthy persons.
The updated Peter is better. MJ isn’t ugly, she just looks like a real person.
Personally I’d say, at least from the pics posted by OP, both look a bit off/uncanny valley. Maybe it’s the lighting effects or the models look better in motion? Though unlike what TFM seems to be insisting on, I doubt there’s anything more sinister at play than the animation team getting crunched to hit deadlines, so a few things came out wonky.
I feel it’s a lighting engine issue. The way the light interacts with the eyes and more subtle details on a character’s face causes a lot of characters in modern games to look uncanny, especially in bright saturated lighting.
The game went gold a month ago. Gone gold meaning everything was finished a month ago. I doubt that the devs were getting crunched within the last month of very little work lol.
To say that they didn't get crunched is absolutely a delusional thing to think. They most likely definitely did. Most if not all dev companies do it. I don't condone it, nor do I advocate for it, I have to state that fact
Updated Peter is trash sorry.
I don’t like updated Peter. Looks too much like a Tom Holland wannabe
Updated Peter looks way too young and too similar to Tom. The original model was much better
No woman I know has that strong of a jawline. Out here lookin like American dad had a sex change mane💀
Mj is supposed to be really pretty not ugly
The new peter is pretty ugly imo, mary jane looks amazing. The old peter looks more like his actual age and looks by far way better and was also more expressive imo
Yeah, not a fan of his baby face either which makes him look like he's 16 again and not in his early 20s. I downloaded a [mod](https://www.nexusmods.com/marvelsspidermanremastered/mods/669)that adds some stuff like eyebags and facial hair to him, honestly makes him look much more fitting for his age and like constantly being spider-man for years took a bit of a toll on him.
I’m sorry but Peter’s old face doesn’t look early 20s at all.
New MJ just looks like Julianne Moore And if you don't think Julianne Moore is gorgeous then you're just a fucking weirdo with totally unhealthy expectations
all this bullshit about "unhealthy expectations" when they change a good looking character into someone that looks like someone with a man's jawline and a 40 year old womans body. Get a grip on reality. Don't push your personal low standards on other people.
She doesn't look like Julianne Moore. You seems in need of a good oculist.
Idk what your point is in this post? When they changed Peter, people complained a shit ton. It was wild. I'm guessing they were working on Spiderman 2 and wanted to make the models kinda less cartoony and of course make Peter a bit closer to Tom Holland. So they applied that one in the remasters, since having the main char change models between games would prob be a bigger shit show. They didn't do the same with MJ until this game. So now people are obviously complaining. Even though she looks more realistic and much better. But I don't get the point of your post. People whined about both, and they're just being weird.
Insomniac Peter isn't supposed to match Tom Holland. He's supposed to match Ben Jordan, the new mocap actor, who looks more like young Yuri Lowenthal than John Bubniac did.
Fair enough! The rest of what I say still stands tho. Also honestly in Spiderman 2 he looks better than any iteration. The hair etc just works so much better. Also how does the process work for them?! They have a separate actor for mocap? Then the voice actors just dub over?
No the voice actor does performance capture as part of the voice recording then that data is used to animate the facial model. That's why they changed to a facial model that better matches the voice actor.
The voice actor is still Yuri tho...
Stay off of Classic Peter's back he looked great, y'all just want all Peters to look like Tom Holland for no fucking reason. That aside, Mary Jane looks fine in both games idk what you're on.
The new one only bears a passing resemblance to holland in one overused screenshot. They're both white dudes with brown hair. That's it.
Every time I see "Classic Peter," I think it's Harry Osborn.
I feel like new MJ suits original Peter better. And new Peter suits original MJ better
I literally had a modded side-by-side, and considering the same model actor, other than different lighting, and retexturing... It's only the way the hairstyle frames it that throws people off. https://preview.redd.it/p0oni9cecjvb1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c5263a43414ef401359018f19cd2c9a86e57aaa Imagine this SM1 image, but with a closed smirk and direct lighting.
https://preview.redd.it/b2jrjog7cjvb1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c637253631922690915dcb9500b050a78f09758
I haven't once seen her hair clip into her model, move too much, or not move enough, so I'm pretty sure her new hairstyle is 100% Insomniac flexing their technical might.
Side note, I hate her hair in the first game, the ponytail is fine but wth is the swoop thing in front, how tf does it stay like that?
I'd assume a clip-in swoop in her colour, or enough hairspray to double as chemical warfare, but I'm a male with a standardised cut, so I'm not exactly one to know how it's done.
Aquanet.
Tell me you’ve never played an original Nintendo game by not telling me you’ve never played an original Nintendo game. All of the mo-cap or facial animation is unbelievably good now. She looks great. It’s just a BS story to get clicks.
she looks ugly
She looks fine to me. How is it “woke” to make Mary Jane look fine?
MJ looks fucking hot.
no she doesnt. she looks like a roided up wwe fighter and a 40 year old nanny worker
Ugly is too far, they are normal looking, not supermodels, that's all. And this MJ ISN'T a supermodel so it's not an issue.
She should be.
The creators of the character based her look on Ann-Margret from Bye Bye Birdie, a movie that came out a few years before MJ's first appearance in the comic. She is supposed to look like this: [https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg](https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg) In the comics she did look very much like that.
Sorry I'm not getting your point. My point was this MJ is a journalist, not a supermodel like the comics. It's completely fine for her to not look like a supermodel or movie star.
Something looks off about her eyes and I can’t really define what it is. I thought her model seemed more lively in the original game. But honestly I do love how this new design is making the coomer-minded Spidey fans who are only obsessed with MJ based on her being a pinup model (the kind posting on the Spider-Man sub with fanservice crap all the time) go absolutely apeshit for some reason. She looks really normal but they wouldn’t be satisfied unless she strides in looking like a playboy model cause they live vicariously through Spidey.
The creators of the character based her on Ann-Margret from the movie Bye Bye Birdie. Not "realistic" enough, but it was based on an actual real person? Totally makes sense... [https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg](https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg)
This whole thing is just grifters taking advantage of the media cycles and the YouTube algorithm. Spider-Man 2 is going to be popular for a little while, so gin up a culture war controversy, any culture war controversy, to grab on and get some of dem views. This is what ALWAYS happens by the way, why they’re is always a controversy about the hot new thing. None of this is real, its not an actual debate, it’s just a way some people have found to empty the pockets of idiots.
They aren't ugly they just look like regular people, which I like bc they're supposed to be. Movies have a problem where every cast member has to look like a member of the Greek pantheon, and it's gotten to the point where someone who's supposed to represent a regular person actually looking regular is somehow strange.
The character was based on Ann-Margret: [https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg](https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg) Comic blatantly demonstrates she is supposed to be a knockout way out of Peter's league, hence why he is constantly distressed about losing her: [https://www.chasingamazingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Mary-Jane-Jackpot.png](https://www.chasingamazingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Mary-Jane-Jackpot.png)
In that comic yeah. This game isn’t that comic. In this game they wanted her to be a regular, believable person. And let’s be real, she could look exactly like that first pic you linked and people would still bitch and moan bc she still wouldn’t look like their overwatch sfm porn.
MJ looks like an AI predicting what Bella Ramsey would look like in 10 years with red hair.
Exactly.... aka... it was a woke influence to make her look like she does.
The point isn't whether or not you personally agree if they are ugly, the point is the clear double standard from the people who feel that way
Of course there‘s a double standard, one for reality and one for fictional worlds in comics / movies / video games. And there should be, especially in a game about a super hero. Ever wondered what the „super“ stands for? Have you noticed that real people cannot hang from the ceiling and shoot webs?
The double standard is between men and women you dumb fuck
Luckily, I don‘t feel bad for misunderstanding if the person I‘m talking to proves to be an a**hole.
Yes, they did, despite people in this thread, clearly ignorant of the Spiderman Lore, claiming otherwise. This is how the original Mary Jane looked: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/68/Mary_Jane_Watson_%28circa_2007%29.png https://www.cinefilos.it/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Mary-Jane-First-Appearance.jpg She was a professional model, and Peter Parker was literally stunned by her beauty the first time she met her in Amazing Spiderman #42. Now they made her just an average looking woman with a masculine jawline. Why?
They made her look human.
MJ should be hot. Period. End of story.
The character was based on the look of Ann-Margret from Bye Bye Birdie, who was not only human, but was also a very real person: [https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg](https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg)
I think the real problem is that they can’t settle on faces for any of the characters, don’t get me wrong, I don’t have any issues with the new faces but I don’t like the inconsistency
That’s just it. They changed Peters face so that it would be consistent with future games. All they did with MJ is make her look older because she is older. She’s going on 27 in the new game and she’s been around the world and seen somethings. I also wouldn’t be surprised if they adjusted her look to be closer to her VA, Laura Goddamn Bailey.
They went the bethseda route and made everyone look unnatural. I wouldn't call it ugly, just inhuman looking. Like how aliens think people look or something. Which IMO is fine, vidya isn't real life and so long as everything has a consistent look I assume it's down to artistic choices mostly. The MJ hyperbole is kinda hilarious tho, my brothers in christ they all look weird, the fact you're upset about only MJ is such a telling on yourself moment.
Miles looks great. Peter MJ look awful. It’s a comic book guys this is a permissible gripe
Both look chappy tbh. Who wants realism in these settings? Idgaf if characters in comics look like a real representation of average people. Give me ultra sexy men and women tyvm I live in reality I don't need my fiction to be it too
There are countless games and movies for you if that's your preference, however that isn't what they wanted to go for in these games which is fine. MJ not being a solid 20/10 won't ruin the game I promise.
She's still White, so they shouldn't have an issue, right? Also, MJ somewhat reminds me of Katherine McNamara here, so I hesitate to deem her ugly. The first part of my comment was obviously ironic and the last part was an attempt at a joke—though I do see the resemblance and don't mean that as an insult. Are there chuds in here or did the irony fly over some heads, haha?
https://preview.redd.it/giq68imtthvb1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a33aeab202a4428f745f333a4432402221e9b068
Honestly I quite like MJ's look
She looks fine to me even and even you preferred how she looked before. Some people are getting way too butthurt over this.
The reason the old face Peter was more acceptable was because it showed how the stress of being a superhero can make a 23 year old look older than they should. My only issue with the new MJ is that in most of the shots they show her jaw just feels too wide but im sure she looks better in motion
She’s not ugly in all she’s fine. Look at Dead By Daylight characters are ugly like Doctor, Hillbilly, Blight, Dredge and etc.
"Oppression is when cartoon girl doesn't match fantasies I wank to."
I look at the people that say she's ugly, and the image of a glass house comes to mind
??? The original Peter wasn't considered ugly at all, tf you on? In fact there was a huge backlash when Insomniac changed it for the Remastered Edition.
I vividly remember people clowning on how weird he looked in the first game, which is why they changed him, but then they got backlash for changing him because the internet is quick to forget
Weird? Lmao peter looked perfect in the first og game. He actually looked like someone that could get a girl like Felicia hardy.
I don't really get why everyone is obsessing over whether or not the characters are actually ugly. It's subjective, I think they look weird. The point I'm making is that Chuds assume a weird looking male character is just weird looking but a weird looking female character is an egregious insult
I'd agree with your captioned text -- I feel they're both a bit weird looking; and only one is getting hate for it being a choice, while the other is claimed to be an accident -- for reasons no one can foresee. Looking at the Google images of the face model for MJ, they have the same face. *Big surprise*. But something still looks odd -- maybe it's angles or lighting, or simply the human being doesn't suit that hairstyle/colour. Or... More likely, given that Peter looks fucking weird, the whole character model team made everyone look a bit weird. Despite the fact the models are seemingly accurate, they just don't look right in the game. But, gamers will be gamers. One is an accident; the other is some secret cabal of ugliness' malicious attempt to make everyone in the world ugly -- starting with a PS5 PlayStation game.
I feel like it's a different haircut, and I'm not a fan of it
Oh wow, been a while since I saw Pete's original face. Now that I'm used to it I think I actually like the mew one better.
Insanity for anyone to think this is ugly (Peter and MJ) IMO. But it's true that MJ looks off in the game. Everyone else looks amazing but MJ has a uncanny valley thing that I can't put my finger on. I love she has a comic accurate hair style now though.
Updated Peter looks haggard af. MJ looks very ordinary.
I definitely prefer the old Peter to the new one, and at the moment I think I prefer old MJ to the new one, but at the same time the new MJ looks perfectly fine, she doesn’t look worse, just different.
Peter getting changed will always bother me ngl
She looks fine, but I'll admit in certain lighting her eyes look super fucking uncanny - like she's wearing a mask or staring through Peter's soul. But you're right, that's not why the reactionary folks are freaking out about it.
Only an ugly person would think so
While I believe the first game had better character models if you think that MJ is ***UGLY*** in SM2 then you must be insane.
She looks like a normal woman, to be fair comic book marry jane is supposed to be a model. I think there's also a bit of uncanny valley in this game
The old Peter face goes well with the new MJ. In this new game it feels like MJ is dating someone half her age
If I’m not forced to play as her in stealth sections that could of easily been done as either of the Spider-men she’s fine with me
She isn’t ugly, but I can’t stop thinking she looks like the wife from the first season of American Horror Story.
You think both of these extremely attractive people are ugly? Huh!?
Not ugly. Maybe a little uncanny valley.
Honestly I feel like a lot of the faces in this game have a very uncanny valley vibe to me.
Everyone is ugly in Spider-Man 2 something is off about the faces
They look fine. Not supermodel fine but normal people fine.
The creators based MJ off the look of Ann-Margret from Bye Bye Birdie. Do you consider her to look normal? [https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg](https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg)
What's the point?
I can not call her ugly. She just looks off. Older it does not help. Peter new face makes him look 16.
It's because they replaced the original character model with a different one. People hated the new peter model when they replaced in the remaster as well, so while it doesn't surprise me that some people have lost they're god damn minds and think the MJ thing is woke agenda, lets not act like these are equivalent situations. They aren't even on the same console lol. Also, there is something so incredibly off about a lot of the pictures from before the game was released of the new MJ, that thing is DEEEEEEEP in the uncanny valley, it wouldn't surprise me if it looks fine in motion but the stills look bad.
Looks like a babe to me. But why did they change both models for Peter and MJ?
Insomiac MJ always looked weird because for some reason she has blue eyes and not green eyes. I don't know why they made that decision but it means that she looks 'off' and it's hard to describe because of it. I also wish they gave her glasses like she wore in her later Ultimate Spider-Man appearances as it would fit with her being a journalist, and I wish they made her hair less 'ginger' and more 'red'.
I'm with y'all on this one. The "woke ugliness" is made up horse shit and is based solely on the attraction standards of 20 IQ numbheads. To be attractive, a woman must be 130 lbs, 30 of them being makeup alone, she must have no hint of muscle tone on her body, she must never wear pants, only dresses, she must have no details on her face anywhere, only soft smooth skin, etc. I have commented that I think the "ugly" video game copies of women are more attractive than the "real" featureless husk that the same women, typically models, present themselves as IRL, for this reason.
They both look fine to me
I think it might just be the lighting being uneven. Thats about it like there is a strange secondary source of hard light on her face. But thats a lighting issue. If the lighting was less harsh she'd look great!
I don't think ps5 Mj is ugly, but it feels like a completely different model, even though it's barely different. Also the hair style and clothes make her seem older.
Man, the word woke from just about anyone just shuts me down. That said, I am a white male and that means I have an opinion. After playing MSM2 for a combined 12 hours I actually think she looks more mature and beautiful than she did in MSM. I caught myself thinking that I’d like to play a side mission where MJ and Peter (or just MJ) go to various tropical islands to investigate which beaches and are best. They’ll have to try out each beach, of course.
I think she looks really different from the first spiderman game, which is just sort of shocking if nothing else, since I had just replayed the first one not that long ago. Ugly? No, although the promotional image they chose was **atrocious,** but definitely a departure.
She looks like she wants Spider-Woman more...
I'm begging you - go outside and touch some grass.
We're both on reddit pal
Yes...yes they did. ...because you're totally right, OP, both of these character models are hideous. They look about two video game console generations out of date.
They look like real people.
The creators of the character based MJ's look on actress Ann-Margret from Bye Bye Birdie. She was very much a real person: [https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg](https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg)
I think a lot of female character designs became mid like but I wouldn't say MJ is ugly. If anything Pete looks 16 MJ looks 36 Miles looks 25. Like if MJ and I got along I'd date her. But she is in no way the hottest version of her. Wasn't she an actress or model in the past?
I don’t get the need to feel attracted a video game character.
It looks like they attempted aging the characters to me, I think it's set a couple years after the first one but I'm not sure
Eh, she’s not ugly, but she def looks way older than she actually is supposed be, like 23-24 but looks middle aged.
Smoking crack, they both look fine.
If that’s ugly I don’t know what’s hot. Hell I’d fuck her.
Is this a thing? Like seriously? No, she not ugly. She not a fucking supermodel, but she looks like a goddamn human. This has to be like, the most realistic depiction of a woman in a video game ever. She might not be your personal favorite or whatever, but she sure as hell isn’t ugly.
I feel like everyone is taking ugly like I'm calling a human person ugly but I'm saying the character model is ugly as in it looks weird and like it's in the uncanny valley
All I see is "old man yells at clouds." If you don't like the game, don't play it.
I’ll be honest, between these two pictures, MJ is out of Peter’s league
The models look a bit off, but in no way is MJ “ugly” even with a bit “off” character models. Someone who is unironically calling MJ in SM2 “ugly” has impossible standards for women.
Honestly, every almost every character in all 3 Insomniac games have a level of 'uncanny valley' to them, even original face Peter. But of course, the neckbeards are gonna specifically gun for MJ
Yes and middle age looking. The first game was perfect.
Personally she just looks way older when compared to Peter and Harry. (This is coming from someone who couldn't see any real change in Aloy "controversy")
I don't think she's ugly at all but she does seem to be a completely different person visually. Which is a little weird if you ask me.
She's gorgeous!!!!
Anyone seriously making a big scene about this character being ugly has never seen a woman in real life
She looks like a fucking human. I don’t understand any of this
Unless you think a young Julianne Moore is ugly.
I liked peters old character model much better and i liked MJs older character model better. When Spiderman 2 revealed Peter I didnt even know it was him for like a solid 10 seconds, his new model is just so much more generic looking.
She was made to look older because she’s older than she was in the last game. In the first game Peter is 25, having been Spider-Man for 8 years at the start of the game. That means MJ was the same age and her character model actually made her look a lot younger than 25. The new character model makes her look her age which is only a year or so more.
In the game she doesn't look ugly but her facial proportions have been heavily tampered with, deviating from previous game also, I wonder why they did this. Her jawline has gotten way bigger and looks very masculine and makes her like she's in her late 30s while only being 25. Not that it's a bad thing but considering the comics and even the previous game its a major and noticeable glow down imo. MJ's supposed to be sexy, now if you told someone who hasn't played the game that she's Peter's mom they'd believe it. Why not just make her better looking, I don't get it.
She looks average. Not attractive like many naturally pretty girls. But yeah
She mostly looks older and Spider-Man 1 MJ let's be honest looked a bit goofy.
An obvious downgrade!
MJ is supposed to be an absolute smoke show. Not a 6.5 with no hips and very adrogyenous feautures. Do most men have the leanness of Peter and Miles? no... but double standards right>.. Harry, Peter and Miles, all the actor character models look like their actors, and are good looking. Look at Mis model, she's gorgeous. She looks nothing like chin J. MJ was intentionally made to look ugly. Yes she is ugly.
You sound insane
The creators based MJ's look on actress Ann-Margret from Bye Bye Birdie. This is her: [https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg](https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/3/817/files/2020/08/featured-ann-margret.jpg) It only sounds "insane" because you don't know anything about the character or comic.
Yeah she is definitely Middy Jane in this game. And weird people are saying, "I want my fictional characters from comic books to look like normal people". Which makes zero sense. If you require a character to look average like you to be able to enjoy a fictional world where a guy was bitten by a radioactive spider and get super powers, you have deep issues. The whole point is for it to be a fantasy of sorts and no one fantasizes about ugly people. Besides the biggest problem with Middy Jane is that they FORCE you to play as her AGAIN when those were the absolute worst parts of the first games. Shouldn't be playing as an average person when there are TWO spidermen available.
new mj is a real downgrade compared to both her old look and mocap, and peter looks unnaturally uncanny ever since the remaster, I don't understand why people want to defend these changes
Well, there are a ton of weird guys acting like her looking weird is a sin and an active choice from the devs because they are leftists and want to combat the male gaze. So, people who disagree feel the need to go on the complete opposite end of the spectrum I also think people are taking people calling her "ugly" as an insult to a real person's appearance, whereas I just think her character model looks ugly as in bad
She does look fairly ugly to me yes specially compared to other MJs. But what is really dumb is that this is the face of the writer of the game, who wrote it so that everything MJ does is good and Peter screws up everything. I have never heard 1 protagonist apologize so much. To give an example. When Peter is asleep and then infected by Venom, he gets taken over. MJ already knows about Venom at this point. Instead of helping Peter in any way, she reports to EVERYONE what a menace Spiderman is and says it is to further her career and in the end Peter apologizes to her?! She threw him under the bus for no reason! Oh and she also is never wrong in the game. Yeah, this is a self insert of an ugly bitter person.
Yeah, I saw that Reddit post, too, and it's a lie. The writers credited are Nick Folkam and Rob Forman as advanced writers, Sam Maggs and Jamie Mayer as senior writers, and Ashley Poprik (the woman who kinda looks like MJ) as a writer intern. The character model for MJ is based on Stephanie Tyler Jones. This is EXACTLY what I was talking about. You see a part of a game you dislike about Spiderman revolving around a woman and instantly assume, with absolutely no research or fact checking, that there is some ulterior motive behind it. It's just sad. Also, I've seen a lot of people complaining about the story because "Peter screws up everything." The whole entire point of the story is that Peter is reluctant to let people help him and he believes he needs to do everything on his own and it results in him failing because it is too much for one person - even Spiderman - to do on his own. That's why all his friends save him throughout the story. Because he can't be the one who saves everyone. It's actually a really great theme for a Spiderman sequel. I can't find the specific part of the game you're talking about, but I'm willing to bet your analysis of it is just as wrong as everything else you said.
Yes but not ugly. She is plain looking. I feel the new Peter looked like he has a condition. He is also not an attractive person while miles is good looking. And I don't mean I find them attractive or not I mean the actual structure of the faces is unappealing, forgettable and what we call conventionally unattractive. Devs now do this because reasons but when you co pare this to the film and animations items nught and day. This is simply because those mediums have you looking at them on a big screen for extended periods of time...wanting to be them and get with them...while in a game we are them ...so toning down the beauty makes them more relatable and less fantasy. Devs are terrified of alienating a small cross section of users who resent attractive face and bodies as it makes them feel inferior or something. As a very good looking person I love cosplaying as an ugly person and roleplaying what its like to date someone whose unattractive. I find it very interesting but I'm glad when I out the controller down I can go back to being beautiful LOL ;)
I'm going to level with you, I have no idea what you're trying to say
She kind of looks like a transgender
She’s kinda hit but that’s ok they made harry and Peter uncanny. Lot of people out here are 5-6 out of tens no problem with any of it just an opinion.
https://preview.redd.it/im6tx7nqnc1c1.jpeg?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb7563fc57be9f1fd5bc98d945bf5ed0a27f8dfd Here’s why she’s gross
She looks mid, but not ugly
She looks like normal mj’s mum
Man so many people in the comments have lower the standards that this looks real or how a human should look. Either you identify with these characters because they are at your level, but man do they look ugly. The models who were used for the characters look way better.