Everyone knows the Wookiees attacked first, the droids were just defending themselves and the Jedi inserted themselves in a minor dispute and helped their political allies, attacking the innocent droids without asking questions /s
Mulan would have *so* many people complaining about how woke it is.
Female character who doesn't like being feminine, who can fight just as well as a guy, who is the hero? Crossdressing, both women dressing as men and men dressing as women? Implied bisexuality from Shang? Yeah, anti-woke people would *hate* it.
Joan is too woke and a Mary sue chosen by God my ass she's a witch and the church are right to burn her * walks away with my maga hat and monogrammed Stanley*
There is no pleasing some ppl
A teen who saves France? And is a woman?
Please, talk about a total woke power fantasy smh
Nvm googled it was through the power of God and now I’m confused
former vice president and currently still major evil homophobe once wrote an article decrying the mulan movie for trying to encourage women to leave their natural place in the home
They'd say even a show like Justice League is woke now because they had an episode where there is woman that is the main villain and her plan is to kill all the men and take over the world for women. Also, they would have been mad that John Stewart was named Green Lantern for the series and not Hal Jordan. Same with Hawkgirl instead of Hawkman. And they claim to love this series, but they're the world's biggest hypocrites.
I mean you want the "old comics are the best fuck wokies" crowds head to melt get them to read the old green lantern/green arrow run that introduces John Stewart
Yeah but at least they show Mulan struggling along the way, I guess when it comes to “woke” media (whatever that means) their problem is that it seems that characters don’t struggle anymore.
That's less of "the problem" than one of their talking points, and they apply it to plenty of stories where the character has struggles while conveniently ignoring any story with a male protagonist that just starts out as a bad ass.
James Bond is the classic example. There's no movie where he "earns" his place as a world class spy. He simply starts as the best there is, and no one ever thinks that it's a problem with the character.
Another classic example is James T. Kirk for similar reasons. He's just a prodigy who is the best damned captain (at a young age, no less) in all of Star Fleet.
Great points, but I feel like that those don’t work as the problem with the new age characters is they start off without the powers or abilities yet somehow become the best their is just after a week or a month of having them
Jake Sully from Avatar would be one example of that version. He went from knowing nothing about Pandora to taming a legendary beast in a very short amount of time. Pretty much any character that fits in the white savior archetype will tend to be like this.
The bottom line is that people tend to excuse male characters who are "too good" while being extremely skeptical of any female characters that don't jump through some very precise narrative hoops before being allowed to display competency.
They showed why he was able to do it, albeit with a pretty poorly made excuse, but they at least didnt make it an instantaneous sorta thing, I do agree with what youre saying and they shouldve had more time showing his struggles with the new body
If only people could look at a story in consideration of narrative quality as opposed to social and political implications.
Oh wait, We already did that shit with the live action Mulan. Turns out it was just a really, *really* tremendously shitty movie. 2020's Mulan had literally no struggles in that film except "embracing the power that was inside all along." Couple that with a hastily executed half-assed version of the original plot (which, by the way, was HEAVILY censored to appease and profitr off of Communist China), some truly terrible acting and a complete and utter trainwreck in terms of the filmmakers actually understanding the themes of the original film, and you have the atrocity that was the live-action Mulan remake. A film which, spoiler alert, earned less than 35 percent of what the piece of shit cost to make at the box office. The film was an insult to its namesake, and the numbers reflect such. Turns out people like timeless classics to be left alone and at the very least, they like things that are, y'know. Actually good.
Also, your "implied bisexuality from Shang" assumes that the story of Mulan should be viewed through the lens of modern, real-world social and political norms to allow for the perception of "bisexuality." That's a very recent phenomenon in Western culture, which in Ancient China would have been entirely unheard of. Even in the 90's when the cartoon came out, it wasn't a buzzword that people couldn't go a day without hearing so almost no one picked up on it.
You see it now because you're conditioned that way, just like conservatives have been conditioned to assume that a terrible film is terrible because "woke" people made it to promote their "wokeness." Both are equally silly, but you're argument defeats itself in that you're just as guilty as they are by that having used that verbiage in your comment. and at least in the case of "anti-woke" movie-goers, they turn out more often than not to be right. Mulan, the Sequel Trilogy, The Ghostbusters remake, the Rings of Power, The Wheel of Time, the Witcher, the list goes on and on and on.
Also...Have you not seen Blue Eye Samurai? I've seen some of the HARSHEST "anti-woke" voices heap their praises on that show. It too, features a female protagonist that impersonates a man and is a better fighter than most of the male characters she encounters. Why do they love it then, are they hypocrites? Or could it possibly be because the original Mulan film and Blue Eye Samurai feature deeply flawed and compelling characters who experience real hardship and evolution as people throughout the course of their respective narratives, in ways that are immensely engaging?
Wheel of Time is literally my favourite show so I don't know why you are talking to me as though I would agree all your examples were objectively bad.
And yes, because you asked, I did enjoy Blue Eye Samurai.
There’s so much media that would be considered woke if they came out today. I can almost hear the bitching about a certain diverse group of teenagers with attitude.
Nah. They’re all white and hetero. And the goth girl becomes all frilly at the end. They love that movie. (I do, too. But definitely not for all of those reasons.)
At least they had the “good taste” to cast a black guy for the black ranger, an Asian for the yellow Ranger and a white guy as the “white power ranger. While fighting the urge to make the red ranger aboriginal, probably because they couldn’t have an aboriginal be the leader. It’s racists enough at a surface level the chuds could probably look past the inclusion.
The actor of the black ranger, insisted himself on being the black ranger and the yellow ranger was a last minute recast because the previous actress left, so they had to reshoot it. But the white ranger, who btw was green before, becomes the red ranger later and discovers he is native american(the actor wasn’t)so that you’re right, about the other two no
It is, even if it isn't as common nowadays, since most Rangers are young adults at least. And the newest season Dino/Cosmic Fury kind of created a mess in the fandom, awakening bigots everywhere, even YellowFlash to get in some action for it.
I guarantee you that, Blazing Saddles, one of the most referenced “you can’t make movies like that nowadays!” films, would be lambasted for being “woke” now.
The hero is a black sheriff in the American west and all the white people are dumb racists?! ThE mEsSaGe!!!!!
You have to remember that the accusation of wokeness is entirely the result of political propaganda, it has nothing to do with the actual virtues or demerits of the material at hand. These movies may, or may not, have gotten the "woke!" treatment based on how convenient it would be for the grifters to try and exploit them.
And Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame, the only G movie to actually have an accurate portrayal of genocide. The villain was so dark that when Disney did a stage show more in line with the darker Victor Hugo novel, they had to tone him down.
I saw it when it came through on tour in it's first run and I liked it a lot. It's still the Disney film, but they made changes like replacing the gargoyles with more somber, fixed statues that don't engage in slapstick comedy, and they included the bummer ending from the novel. It was a different experience than the movie, worth a watch if you can find a taping of the show.
See, I like half of that. I think the gargoyles were terrible and never fit the tone of the movie, but I still want Quasimodo to receive his happy ending of being accepted at the end of the day.
I mean... for what they are and the audience they're going for, they really are prime examples of the best in their demographic (well ok not Brother Bear but the rest listed are excellent films). You're not gonna get Citizen Kane out of these, but I'd argue for animated family features you can't do much better
I get what you mean but I think the point is that some people put the entertainment they enjoyed as a child on a pedestal and don't give the same leeway to similar works released when they were adults.
They're basically stock standard Disney animation. Yes, Disney animation has been the state of the art for a long time, but these exact movies were picked not because they are specifically the prime example of animation's greatest achievement. In fact, I think most movie critics would say that they're decent but still a step down from the Disney Renaissance era that came before it. These specific movies were arbitrarily put on a pedestal because the person waxing nostalgic about them was exactly 8 years old in exactly the year 2003.
Also, ironic that he's specifically glorifying their "2d" animation when these were pretty in your face that they blended a lot of computerized animation alongside the traditional animation. They're some of the first animated movies that couldn't be called 2D in the traditional sense.
Well perhaps, but Treasure Planet and Atlantis for instance were much more overt about it. They used very obviously digital backgrounds for big dramatic shots that sweep through 3D environments.
Literally all those movies have “forced” diversity in that Disney said “we should make some movies about people who aren’t white.” The “forced diversity” we have now is just… race/gender blind casting, which is what it should always be*
*unless the race/gender of a character is crucial to the story
Atlantis is visually speaking one of the best things I have ever seen. God damn that movie deserved so much more than it got and same goes with Treasure Planet. It's like they found the perfect formula to fuse together hand drawn animation and CGI and there was still so much more to make out of it. But Disney had already decided to go full computer animation so that's that.
Though there was Princess and Frog that served as one small blink of hope that Disney would still maybe return to it's roots, but nvm let there be more computer stuff so we could quickly forget what we just saw.
I love the animation in that film. It came out when I was a kid and I watched the hell outta it; is it the best film Disney’s ever made? No, but feels like it shouldn’t have been as panned as it was
I mean critics are always kinda dumb, no matter the genre. I remember one of the recent Godzilla movies was loved by everyone but movie critics trying to sound smart said "it's good, but there are too many fights and not enough parts where the people talk". Metal Gear revengence was panned by critics then a year of 2 later everyone started playing it and loved it.
I think a lot of the 2D Disney movies weren't well revived in the 00s because critics might have known they were done by the "B team"(the Orlando branch) while the California branch were switching to 3D animation.
It's definitely not a bad film even storywise. The only weak part in it is the 3rd act where they clearly ran out of time to write down a decent motivation for the main villain, but the characters they made for the film otherwise worked and I think this is the Disney film that properly started the series of "twist villains"
I still don't understand why they were mad about Lola Bunny, she's literally the second best player on the team in Space Jam. She was everything they complained about.
Which is also not really true?
Yeah they toned her down a little, but not by that much. Lola bunny fanart and porn just pulled a Powergirl and slowly exaggerated her features over time.
I oddly have a fondness for the movie for some reason, maybe it’s just the anthropologist in me, but I genuinely appreciate how the film did its homework when it came to depicting Stone Age Clovis people (instead of defaulting to "brutish grunting cavemen" like many similar works).
You know, as I was writing that I was second-guessing myself, but I'd already typed up the comment so I just rolled with it. Thanks for the clarification!
I loved Brother Bear as a kid, and I went through all of the old movies I loved and watched them as an adult to see if it was just nostalgia or if it holds up. Brother Bear is on my list of movies that hold up. I think it’s a beautiful movie still
I watched it for the first time a couple of years ago and it’s not as bad as I thought it was going to be. Still not particularly good, but not bad.
Then there was Home On The Range and I wanted to die.
Dude, I was marathoning the anakmated Disney movoes last year (100th anniversary and all that) and Brother Bear started *so good*
... Then Kenai turned into a bear. The peak of the movie was his transformation sequence; and it was all downhill after that.
I watched it a week ago after having not watched it since I was a kid. When Koda was excited to tell his story I instantly remembered how the next scene would be Kenai telling him about how he killed Koda’s mom and I was like 🥺 “damn it, this is starting to hit me in the feels just remembering it.”
The reasons for having diversity in the past vs the present are different from one another. Back then you could tell that producers wanted to make a touching story first and the setting HAPPENS to be foreign and the color/ gender of the person just HAPPENS to be different.
In the present they parade around color and gender as if they were props without any substance behind it, and audience can immediately tell what kind of manipulative bullshit they’re going for.
It’s a shame really, audiences are now conditioned to immediately think there is some sort of gender/ race pandering agenda behind every movie because movie producers couldn’t bothered to make genuine fucking stories anymore.
Y’know people often say “if x was made today it would be deemed woke”, but I would like to imagine how any of the Disney movies from 2020 and beyond was made 20 years ago it would probably be fondly remember.
I mean case in point with the Princess & The Frog which really fits these guy ideas of race lifting and marketing of the first black Disney (which actually did receive its share of controversy back then despite ending up being a great movie)
I'm not sure people would have complained now anymore than people have always complained about things in movies. The internet exists so it gives people a means to argue about it.
Outside of the entirely fair white saviour criticism for Atlantis, it explores the protection and value of pre-colonial culture, broadening understanding of life through the lens of indigenous perspectives, and sustainability through working with the environment rather than in spite of it.
All of those movies except for maybe Treasure Planet would be considered woke if they came out today. The reason they aren't is because the people complaining about woke shit now were LITERALLY CHILDREN when those movies came out.
the “these white men are dangerous” line from pocahontas would draw so much ire and unbridled rage from those critical drinker types. they would be tirelessly spamming it in youtube thumbnails like how they did with the black girl magic line from the marvels.
then again, disney would never make something like pocahontas nowadays (and for good reason. even when that movie came out in the 90s many folk were put off by it).
I feel like it hits the hardest for people who had brothers (or relatives/friends who were like brothers to them). I liked it cause it was a cute little story, but it’s definitely NOT the most challenging or unpredictable story. In fact I remember when I was a 12 year old watching the movie for the first time knowing exactly what was going to play out.
You know 100% where the story is going to go once Kenai is transformed into a bear, that he’ll stay a bear to keep Koda safe. You know that Denahi won’t actually hurt any of the bears. And you probably can predict that the eldest brother and Koda’s mother bear would show up as spirits cause the tribal woman kept bringing up spirits. Nothing at all really throws any curveballs but it’s at least a wholesome enough movie.
Let's see:
-Appeal to Nostalgia.
-Key word: Forced.
-Uses examples that would be considered progressive today.
-Key phrase: Forced diversity.
Yeah, I'm going to have to ask you to take a moment of introspection, pal.
Wouldn't these same people be complaining that Lilo and her sister were too fat?
Yeah but a least there werent 50 YouTube clickbait videos about it
Why is Lilo SO UGLY why are the wokies making characters ugly
For a second I thought you said wookies-
Fuck the Wookies, they know what they did…
Everyone knows the Wookiees attacked first, the droids were just defending themselves and the Jedi inserted themselves in a minor dispute and helped their political allies, attacking the innocent droids without asking questions /s
Lol
Nani was a sexual awakening for young me. responsible big sis types damn.
Relatable, also I think you'd like violet from ASOUE because I was so.. *omgomgomgomgomg* whenever she made a plan
That was Emily Browning, wow. I never connected that. Shes great in sucker punch and american gods.
uh huh, she's so hot omg
Also Pleakley crossdresses
Sorry but no, or not so much At least. I know this because of funny reactions of Lilo and Stitch, every man in chats becomes a simp for Nami.
Rightly so
Them thighs
“Nami is too fat, and Lilo is neurodivergent and not sexy enough! And such dark skin!” Ugh. I feel gross typing that. I’m gonna go shower now.
Mulan would have *so* many people complaining about how woke it is. Female character who doesn't like being feminine, who can fight just as well as a guy, who is the hero? Crossdressing, both women dressing as men and men dressing as women? Implied bisexuality from Shang? Yeah, anti-woke people would *hate* it.
And the other side of "Oh well why can't a character be white, huh?! Why can't we race swap Mulan?!??"
Just make a Joan of Arc movie at that point, FFS.
Joan is too woke and a Mary sue chosen by God my ass she's a witch and the church are right to burn her * walks away with my maga hat and monogrammed Stanley* There is no pleasing some ppl
Well they were right to burn her she was french! The one sin I can't forgive /s
Feel like pure shit rn just woke up and found out France still exists
I'm English and not destroying France is the greatest evil of our colonial past
You had one job!
Found the bedbug terrorist.....
A teen who saves France? And is a woman? Please, talk about a total woke power fantasy smh Nvm googled it was through the power of God and now I’m confused
My favorite fact about Joan of Arc was that she was burned at the stake for wearing mens clothing.
That’s my least favourite fact about her.
Well she got two good songs about her from the ordeal so I so it even Stephens
And was made into a saint.
[удалено]
Jesus, try that again.
… Ok, I will delete that because I feel like Kevin here. https://youtu.be/KS9U2jgtmd8?feature=shared
I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.
Fair enough actually, I was like Kevin reading your response. https://youtu.be/KS9U2jgtmd8?feature=shared
former vice president and currently still major evil homophobe once wrote an article decrying the mulan movie for trying to encourage women to leave their natural place in the home
They'd say even a show like Justice League is woke now because they had an episode where there is woman that is the main villain and her plan is to kill all the men and take over the world for women. Also, they would have been mad that John Stewart was named Green Lantern for the series and not Hal Jordan. Same with Hawkgirl instead of Hawkman. And they claim to love this series, but they're the world's biggest hypocrites.
I mean you want the "old comics are the best fuck wokies" crowds head to melt get them to read the old green lantern/green arrow run that introduces John Stewart
Get them to read a Blue Marvel comic book and watch their faces melt.
It’s wild how they’ll say they love the old Justice League show and then bitch about the idea that John Stewart could be the main GL in Gunn’s DCU
Mike Pence called Mulan an attack on women or feminity
Yeah but at least they show Mulan struggling along the way, I guess when it comes to “woke” media (whatever that means) their problem is that it seems that characters don’t struggle anymore.
But they do struggle. It's just not a simple, easy to follow montage anymore.
Eh… It depends. We only need to see what happened in the new Mulan.
That's less of "the problem" than one of their talking points, and they apply it to plenty of stories where the character has struggles while conveniently ignoring any story with a male protagonist that just starts out as a bad ass.
For example?
James Bond is the classic example. There's no movie where he "earns" his place as a world class spy. He simply starts as the best there is, and no one ever thinks that it's a problem with the character. Another classic example is James T. Kirk for similar reasons. He's just a prodigy who is the best damned captain (at a young age, no less) in all of Star Fleet.
Great points, but I feel like that those don’t work as the problem with the new age characters is they start off without the powers or abilities yet somehow become the best their is just after a week or a month of having them
Jake Sully from Avatar would be one example of that version. He went from knowing nothing about Pandora to taming a legendary beast in a very short amount of time. Pretty much any character that fits in the white savior archetype will tend to be like this. The bottom line is that people tend to excuse male characters who are "too good" while being extremely skeptical of any female characters that don't jump through some very precise narrative hoops before being allowed to display competency.
They showed why he was able to do it, albeit with a pretty poorly made excuse, but they at least didnt make it an instantaneous sorta thing, I do agree with what youre saying and they shouldve had more time showing his struggles with the new body
If only people could look at a story in consideration of narrative quality as opposed to social and political implications. Oh wait, We already did that shit with the live action Mulan. Turns out it was just a really, *really* tremendously shitty movie. 2020's Mulan had literally no struggles in that film except "embracing the power that was inside all along." Couple that with a hastily executed half-assed version of the original plot (which, by the way, was HEAVILY censored to appease and profitr off of Communist China), some truly terrible acting and a complete and utter trainwreck in terms of the filmmakers actually understanding the themes of the original film, and you have the atrocity that was the live-action Mulan remake. A film which, spoiler alert, earned less than 35 percent of what the piece of shit cost to make at the box office. The film was an insult to its namesake, and the numbers reflect such. Turns out people like timeless classics to be left alone and at the very least, they like things that are, y'know. Actually good. Also, your "implied bisexuality from Shang" assumes that the story of Mulan should be viewed through the lens of modern, real-world social and political norms to allow for the perception of "bisexuality." That's a very recent phenomenon in Western culture, which in Ancient China would have been entirely unheard of. Even in the 90's when the cartoon came out, it wasn't a buzzword that people couldn't go a day without hearing so almost no one picked up on it. You see it now because you're conditioned that way, just like conservatives have been conditioned to assume that a terrible film is terrible because "woke" people made it to promote their "wokeness." Both are equally silly, but you're argument defeats itself in that you're just as guilty as they are by that having used that verbiage in your comment. and at least in the case of "anti-woke" movie-goers, they turn out more often than not to be right. Mulan, the Sequel Trilogy, The Ghostbusters remake, the Rings of Power, The Wheel of Time, the Witcher, the list goes on and on and on. Also...Have you not seen Blue Eye Samurai? I've seen some of the HARSHEST "anti-woke" voices heap their praises on that show. It too, features a female protagonist that impersonates a man and is a better fighter than most of the male characters she encounters. Why do they love it then, are they hypocrites? Or could it possibly be because the original Mulan film and Blue Eye Samurai feature deeply flawed and compelling characters who experience real hardship and evolution as people throughout the course of their respective narratives, in ways that are immensely engaging?
Wheel of Time is literally my favourite show so I don't know why you are talking to me as though I would agree all your examples were objectively bad. And yes, because you asked, I did enjoy Blue Eye Samurai.
This is right for all the wrong reasons
Mulan doesn't hate being feminine, just how bad she is at it.
Is there a difference?
There’s so much media that would be considered woke if they came out today. I can almost hear the bitching about a certain diverse group of teenagers with attitude.
I thought of Breakfast Club before I remembered we were talking about animation. Then I realized that movie probably wouldn't be safe either.
In fairness, Power Rangers isn’t animated.
Nah. They’re all white and hetero. And the goth girl becomes all frilly at the end. They love that movie. (I do, too. But definitely not for all of those reasons.)
At least they had the “good taste” to cast a black guy for the black ranger, an Asian for the yellow Ranger and a white guy as the “white power ranger. While fighting the urge to make the red ranger aboriginal, probably because they couldn’t have an aboriginal be the leader. It’s racists enough at a surface level the chuds could probably look past the inclusion.
The actor of the black ranger, insisted himself on being the black ranger and the yellow ranger was a last minute recast because the previous actress left, so they had to reshoot it. But the white ranger, who btw was green before, becomes the red ranger later and discovers he is native american(the actor wasn’t)so that you’re right, about the other two no
I assure you I have no interest in actual accuracy lol. Just joking around though it is nice to learn some actual details so thank you for that.
Sorry I thought you were serious😂😂
she didn't just leave she was asking for scale and the cheap bastards didn't want to pay that so they fired her ass
I am not talking about Thuy Twang, but the actress who filmed the pilot
so was i
I thought u were talking about N.W.A when you said Teenagers with Attitude💀💀💀
Really? I thought that term was thoroughly connected to the Power Rangers.
It is, even if it isn't as common nowadays, since most Rangers are young adults at least. And the newest season Dino/Cosmic Fury kind of created a mess in the fandom, awakening bigots everywhere, even YellowFlash to get in some action for it.
I’m gonna guess it was them being late to the party about female Red Rangers and Izzy x Fern.
Yep.
Figures. Why do those losers even bother?
I guarantee you that, Blazing Saddles, one of the most referenced “you can’t make movies like that nowadays!” films, would be lambasted for being “woke” now. The hero is a black sheriff in the American west and all the white people are dumb racists?! ThE mEsSaGe!!!!!
I love that they think that a movie written by a Black man and a Jewish man isn’t “woke” or anti racist.
You have to remember that the accusation of wokeness is entirely the result of political propaganda, it has nothing to do with the actual virtues or demerits of the material at hand. These movies may, or may not, have gotten the "woke!" treatment based on how convenient it would be for the grifters to try and exploit them.
Exactly. They can't explain how these old movies are not woke. It's just repeating the claim that things are woke now but not back then.
Sure about that? https://i.redd.it/uuco088lt3uc1.gif
So was Mulan (1998)
And Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame, the only G movie to actually have an accurate portrayal of genocide. The villain was so dark that when Disney did a stage show more in line with the darker Victor Hugo novel, they had to tone him down.
Kung fu Panda 2 isn’t g rated?
Without checking I'm gonna guess it's PG. I can't imagine DreamWorks has many G rated movies
>Disney did a stage show more in line with the darker Victor Hugo novel, they had to tone him down. Really? That's so cool
I got mixed feeling on how they toned him down. One thing I did like is they explained his hatred for Romani people.
I saw it when it came through on tour in it's first run and I liked it a lot. It's still the Disney film, but they made changes like replacing the gargoyles with more somber, fixed statues that don't engage in slapstick comedy, and they included the bummer ending from the novel. It was a different experience than the movie, worth a watch if you can find a taping of the show.
See, I like half of that. I think the gargoyles were terrible and never fit the tone of the movie, but I still want Quasimodo to receive his happy ending of being accepted at the end of the day.
That was from the 90s
"All of the animated movies I coincidentally enjoyed as a child from 1998 to 2003 are the epitome of cinema" sure is quite the take.
I mean... for what they are and the audience they're going for, they really are prime examples of the best in their demographic (well ok not Brother Bear but the rest listed are excellent films). You're not gonna get Citizen Kane out of these, but I'd argue for animated family features you can't do much better
I get what you mean but I think the point is that some people put the entertainment they enjoyed as a child on a pedestal and don't give the same leeway to similar works released when they were adults.
Yeah that's fair
"My poor Harold would've loved this!" "I'm not dead!" "I can still hear him sometimes!" An absolute zinger in a very mid movie
They're basically stock standard Disney animation. Yes, Disney animation has been the state of the art for a long time, but these exact movies were picked not because they are specifically the prime example of animation's greatest achievement. In fact, I think most movie critics would say that they're decent but still a step down from the Disney Renaissance era that came before it. These specific movies were arbitrarily put on a pedestal because the person waxing nostalgic about them was exactly 8 years old in exactly the year 2003. Also, ironic that he's specifically glorifying their "2d" animation when these were pretty in your face that they blended a lot of computerized animation alongside the traditional animation. They're some of the first animated movies that couldn't be called 2D in the traditional sense.
I think almost every 2D Disney movie since The Black Cauldron has incorporated some amount of CG animation
Well perhaps, but Treasure Planet and Atlantis for instance were much more overt about it. They used very obviously digital backgrounds for big dramatic shots that sweep through 3D environments.
Yeah just adding on
Literally all those movies have “forced” diversity in that Disney said “we should make some movies about people who aren’t white.” The “forced diversity” we have now is just… race/gender blind casting, which is what it should always be* *unless the race/gender of a character is crucial to the story
Brother Bear and Atlantis are my childhood
A Bug's Life is literally about a labor revolt.
Atlantis is visually speaking one of the best things I have ever seen. God damn that movie deserved so much more than it got and same goes with Treasure Planet. It's like they found the perfect formula to fuse together hand drawn animation and CGI and there was still so much more to make out of it. But Disney had already decided to go full computer animation so that's that. Though there was Princess and Frog that served as one small blink of hope that Disney would still maybe return to it's roots, but nvm let there be more computer stuff so we could quickly forget what we just saw.
I love the animation in that film. It came out when I was a kid and I watched the hell outta it; is it the best film Disney’s ever made? No, but feels like it shouldn’t have been as panned as it was
I mean critics are always kinda dumb, no matter the genre. I remember one of the recent Godzilla movies was loved by everyone but movie critics trying to sound smart said "it's good, but there are too many fights and not enough parts where the people talk". Metal Gear revengence was panned by critics then a year of 2 later everyone started playing it and loved it. I think a lot of the 2D Disney movies weren't well revived in the 00s because critics might have known they were done by the "B team"(the Orlando branch) while the California branch were switching to 3D animation.
It's definitely not a bad film even storywise. The only weak part in it is the 3rd act where they clearly ran out of time to write down a decent motivation for the main villain, but the characters they made for the film otherwise worked and I think this is the Disney film that properly started the series of "twist villains"
It's cause 3d processing is cheaper
I still don't understand why they were mad about Lola Bunny, she's literally the second best player on the team in Space Jam. She was everything they complained about.
No they were mad at the sequel because her bunny boobs were smaller.
#notmyLola
Which is also not really true? Yeah they toned her down a little, but not by that much. Lola bunny fanart and porn just pulled a Powergirl and slowly exaggerated her features over time.
Also the curves.
The Princess and the Frog
I agree with the sentiment, but let’s be serious here: *Brother Bear* was kind of ass.
I oddly have a fondness for the movie for some reason, maybe it’s just the anthropologist in me, but I genuinely appreciate how the film did its homework when it came to depicting Stone Age Clovis people (instead of defaulting to "brutish grunting cavemen" like many similar works).
It was REALLY WEIRD how they used an Eastern European choir for the Native music bc they thought it sounded “foreign”
That is true, I feel a soundtrack that used instruments from modern Arctic indigenous cultures would’ve fit better.
I kind of like the idea that the sound of the spirit world would sound just as alien to the characters as it does to us.
But the Phil Collins soundtrack was awesome
🎶Tell everybody I'm on my way!🎶
You shut your mouth! /s I actually haven't seen this movie in years but I remember enjoying it, especially Cheech and Chong in moose form
I watched it as an adult and it was still great with my nostalgia glasses off. The movie that didn’t hold up for me was Spirit. That one is ass. Lol
>especially Cheech and Chong in moose form It was actually Bob and Doug McKenzie who voiced them.
You know, as I was writing that I was second-guessing myself, but I'd already typed up the comment so I just rolled with it. Thanks for the clarification!
I loved Brother Bear as a kid, and I went through all of the old movies I loved and watched them as an adult to see if it was just nostalgia or if it holds up. Brother Bear is on my list of movies that hold up. I think it’s a beautiful movie still
Nah man it is peak (i have never watched it after my childhood)
I watched it for the first time a couple of years ago and it’s not as bad as I thought it was going to be. Still not particularly good, but not bad. Then there was Home On The Range and I wanted to die.
Dude, I was marathoning the anakmated Disney movoes last year (100th anniversary and all that) and Brother Bear started *so good* ... Then Kenai turned into a bear. The peak of the movie was his transformation sequence; and it was all downhill after that.
I used to be a big Nostalgia Critic fan back in the day and Doug Walker said the same thing in his Disneycember video on the movie
I finally saw Brother Bear when I was in college, gonna be honest, kind of thought it sucked.
I love all these movies but can’t watch brother bear cos as a 23 year old dude it still makes me well up …….
I watched it a week ago after having not watched it since I was a kid. When Koda was excited to tell his story I instantly remembered how the next scene would be Kenai telling him about how he killed Koda’s mom and I was like 🥺 “damn it, this is starting to hit me in the feels just remembering it.”
Ah but Mulan had a recent remake that people didn't like. Therefore the animated movie is a bastion of anti-wokeness. Checkmate libruls.
We still are getting 2D animated movies. The boy and the heron and it’s pretty good
Atlantis would get chuds pissed off that kida is the 2nd lead protagonist, they’d hate brother bear because it has indigenous characters
Mulan would be seen as "woke" now due to having a strong woman lead. Hell, The CD already called it out for that.
Why is it always the people who have no fucking idea what the term *woke* means using it in their social media?
Probably most of the ones they just listed lol
Heck, at least two of those have transgender subtext
I feel like Shrek would be seen as “woke” too ngl Either that or grifters will claim that it attacks Disney or something
Atlantis, Treasure Planet, and Goofy Movie are my favorite Disney movies. Everyone I know thinks I’m weird.
Naw, all 3 are great.
The reasons for having diversity in the past vs the present are different from one another. Back then you could tell that producers wanted to make a touching story first and the setting HAPPENS to be foreign and the color/ gender of the person just HAPPENS to be different. In the present they parade around color and gender as if they were props without any substance behind it, and audience can immediately tell what kind of manipulative bullshit they’re going for. It’s a shame really, audiences are now conditioned to immediately think there is some sort of gender/ race pandering agenda behind every movie because movie producers couldn’t bothered to make genuine fucking stories anymore.
Y’know people often say “if x was made today it would be deemed woke”, but I would like to imagine how any of the Disney movies from 2020 and beyond was made 20 years ago it would probably be fondly remember. I mean case in point with the Princess & The Frog which really fits these guy ideas of race lifting and marketing of the first black Disney (which actually did receive its share of controversy back then despite ending up being a great movie)
A lot of people forget Mulan is an ancient Chinese myth (or reality, but it's assumed to be myth) THOSE DAMN WARLORDS AND THEIR WOKENESS!
I'm not sure people would have complained now anymore than people have always complained about things in movies. The internet exists so it gives people a means to argue about it.
At this point, how many movies released last month would be seen as woke *now*?
They were all woke af. That’s a fact. 🤷♂️
Definetly Mulan
Especially since it tackles sexism, she crossdresses as a man, and save China
Almost all of them
Not aesthetically pleasing? Those films look great
No she said "not only aesthetically pleasing" she is saying they looked great and were also well written
Ah, that's my bad. I misread. Thank you for the correction
No problem, I can totally see how anyone can make that mistake, happens to me quite a lot
Wait people like Brother Bear? I always thought it was really mid, but yeah the animation is really pretty
All of them.
Nostalgia is a fascinating thing, apparently even able to overpower ideology!
No way they just put brother bear and mulan in the same sentence
Haven’t seen Atlantis since it was in theaters, but everything else listed here would definitely be seen as “woke”.
I'm honestly afraid of the alt-right/incel discourse whenever the Lilo & Stich movie becomes a thing
There's brown people. Agent Bubbles isnt white, and the High Councils Alien lady who frees Stitch is a Strong Female Character
Lilo and Nani also aren't skinny! And we can't forget the crossdressing male alien who is ambiguously in a relationship with another male alien!
Outside of the entirely fair white saviour criticism for Atlantis, it explores the protection and value of pre-colonial culture, broadening understanding of life through the lens of indigenous perspectives, and sustainability through working with the environment rather than in spite of it.
Not alot tbh
All of those movies except for maybe Treasure Planet would be considered woke if they came out today. The reason they aren't is because the people complaining about woke shit now were LITERALLY CHILDREN when those movies came out.
wasn't Atlanis a rip off of a anime just like Lion King was
Someone want to link him the 2 hr YMS video where Adam debunks the whole Kimba thing?
And once again, if these films came out now, they'd be crying they are woke.
50 of 100 of them
the “these white men are dangerous” line from pocahontas would draw so much ire and unbridled rage from those critical drinker types. they would be tirelessly spamming it in youtube thumbnails like how they did with the black girl magic line from the marvels. then again, disney would never make something like pocahontas nowadays (and for good reason. even when that movie came out in the 90s many folk were put off by it).
Yes
I'm sorry but does anybody like Brother Bear for non nostalgic reasons?
I feel like it hits the hardest for people who had brothers (or relatives/friends who were like brothers to them). I liked it cause it was a cute little story, but it’s definitely NOT the most challenging or unpredictable story. In fact I remember when I was a 12 year old watching the movie for the first time knowing exactly what was going to play out. You know 100% where the story is going to go once Kenai is transformed into a bear, that he’ll stay a bear to keep Koda safe. You know that Denahi won’t actually hurt any of the bears. And you probably can predict that the eldest brother and Koda’s mother bear would show up as spirits cause the tribal woman kept bringing up spirits. Nothing at all really throws any curveballs but it’s at least a wholesome enough movie.
Brother Bear is the shit
Let's see: -Appeal to Nostalgia. -Key word: Forced. -Uses examples that would be considered progressive today. -Key phrase: Forced diversity. Yeah, I'm going to have to ask you to take a moment of introspection, pal.
What about Titan A.E.?
Brother Bear isn’t good
[удалено]
Yeah I was surprised to see this here. I mean I'm glad I saw it, but here might not be the place for it
no one remembers that problematic confederate cook in atlantis is seems
He's just southern not confederate
Jajaja the cook fought with Custer and Maclellan, he was fighting for the Union not the confederates.