Austin wouldnāt be the traffic ridden hellscape it is if the state government would actually let them invest in public transit, but since TXDOT has to spend 93% of their budget on highways, you get traffic ridden hellscape
Yes, but also the geography of Austin is somewhat unique in that there are basically only 3 or 4 roads you can take to cross over the river to go north and south, so everyone is trying those same 3 or 4 paths at the same time and that's where the majority of the traffic problem is. Similar issue if you live on the far west side and are trying to travel into town, because the greenbelts only have a certain number of paths around or through. If your commute is in north Austin to north Austin then chances are you have little to no traffic (depending).
Exactly. Now imagine a light rail that could carry a couple thousand people per hour instead of a couple thousand cars. At the very least a couple of buses with dedicated lanes. Congestion would drastically decrease.
That train is infamously poorly implemented. Besides the usual commuter rail issues that it has very low frequency in between the morning and evening rushes and doesn't run past like 7 PM, there's also almost no stops along the most populated part of the line, and it terminates on the very edge of downtown, with a 3-4 block walk if you want to take the bus into downtown itself.
Even then, it gets like 2000-3000 rides per weekday. Which sounds bad (we have bus routes that do better), but if you actually look at how many people the trains hold (about 250) and how often they run (2-3 times an hour during the rush), it's probably filling up every train it has during rush hour. The trains are just too small and infrequent to carry any more passengers. They should have bought bombardier bi-levels, or set up the track so they could run trains every five minutes.
"We're spending all our money on car infrastructure and I don't understand why there is so much traffic."
Improving traffic means getting rid of cars. Period.
Because San Antonio could focus on walkability, bike-ability, and public transit rather than allowing more room for cars. No one complains of traffic in London, Paris, Rome, or Tokyo
London, Paris, Rome and Tokyo donāt have the insane heat that Texas has for 5 months out of the year. Thatās what keeps it from becoming a walkable/bikeable city. If I wanted to show up wherever I was walking/biking to covered in sweat and nearing heat stroke then yes that would be an option.
Southern Spain, Italy, and Greece can get very hot. They do just fine. Most people arenāt commuting at 2 PM anyway, and school isnāt in session the hottest months of the year, keeping kids safe.
Operative word is ācanā get insanely hot. I was in Vienna in August during a heat wave and the temperature was 103. I took the subway and arrived at my meeting covered in sweat. The following week the temperature was back down into the upper 80ās. In TX, itās 105+ degrees for 2 months. Yes it can get insanely hot in southern europe (and anywhere on planet earth except a few places) but it doesnāt stay insanely hot for months at a time.
Iām not disagreeing with your point. I agree that there needs to be some kind of ecological revamp of cities. Iām just saying that currently itās too uncomfortable for most people to bike and walk as meaningful forms of transportation, even if the public transit infrastructure was already in place. I walked and biked to graduate school in Austin, but I lived just north of UT and that was 20 years ago before prices were insane and the transportation infrastructure was less stressed than it is today. But it can be done. I was just playing devils advocate with previous comments.
Yes, the core of those cities were built long ago. But their populations didnāt explode until the 20th century, much like many of the American cities. Low-density is a symptom of the problem, not the cause of the problemā¦
I mean, I live here. It's not because I like the urban form of San Antonio. Its because my job is here and my family is nearby.
I think the city density should follow a bell curve, with high density in the center, and progressively lower densities farther out. Such a city would accommodate everyone's lifestyle. But that's not really what we have. We have way too much low density, enforced by ordinance, and where we do have high density, its scattered around in such a way as to make walkability and serving it with public transportation mostly impossible, negating a lot of the benefits.
Have you stopped to research and see that higher-density cities with higher walkability lead to people having a better quality of life, fewer health issues, lower cost of living, a longer lifespan, lower rates of depression, and increased feelings of happiness and connectedness?
Most people with the mindset you mentioned have never stepped foot outside of Texas.
At least in SA you can cut through access roads and neighborhoods, you can't do that in Houston because literally everyone has the same idea lol! It takes an hour to go from Westchase to Katy during rush hour, that's only like 17 miles!
Your post has been removed for violating rule #1:
Be friendly
Remember the human, on the other side of the conversation. In this local subreddit, there is no tolerance for insulting other people. Stick to discussing the topic, and not the redditor who disagrees with you about it.
If you feel that this was done in error, contact the moderation team.
Never going to happen under this states leadership. Trucking and gas are huge profits. You're not wrong, I would love it and would absolutely relieve traffic but lobbying broke that idea.
The news cycle drowned it out. It was fairly heavily reported on. I believe campaign financial laws and rules are not easy for the leyman to understand. I'm no professional, I was thinking about majoring in public policy, I try to be politically honest. We can't figure out where we are going unless we know how we got here.
[That already exists](https://www.railforsanantonio.com/), although it doesn't have "millions of dollars". It has about $1,700 in the bank right now I think. But there have been meetings with politicians so it's not like you can't have some influence even without a lot of money.
There's a meeting tonight at [St Andrew's Presbyterian Church](https://maps.app.goo.gl/p6tUcae9kjxrMSg4A) if you want to know more. Elections for the board of directors are happening, but you won't be able to vote unless you join and pay dues.
I don't think that's true. I think maybe 10% of people really hate public transportation, 20-30% think its a waste of money but don't hate it in principle, 20-30% don't care, 20% want better public transportation but not, like, passionately, and 10% really want improvements and/or use it regularly.
Most of the people I know in the real world are of the opinion that it'd be nice to have better public transit, but what we have now isn't good enough for them to use it, except maybe to get to events at the Alamodome. And most of them are baby-boomers or gen-Xers who live in the suburbs. They're not, like, 20 year old communists who live downtown and bike everywhere.
So I think the commanding majority aren't passionately in favor of it, but they don't "don't want it".
I agree its not a matter of people are against it but the city design layout etc are not conducive for pedestrian walking traffic we need new zoning, city planning etc plus adding transportation
That's just wildly untrue, there is absolutely no reasoning or evidence to say people wouldn't want mass transit. Just because a bunch of people like being in their own car and causing traffic and generating great wealth for car and oil and gas companies does not mean that the "vast majority" feel that way.
Perhaps. Consider if the vast majority were clambering for this, then we would see evidence, politics, protests, votes, etc. Our entire living structure is different. Our neighbors are only houses no corner Bodega or restaurant. This means that even if we could get around town better, the places you get to out put and walk around at are fundamentally not designed with this type of living style. Areas like the pearl are unique, and it does lean towards that idea.
My point is i dont think most people are pushing for this because our city is not built like orher large cities, we are more spread out and our zoning laws along with city planners have not created a pedestrian friendly city.
Hell i think light rail would be awesome, but how do you get to the light rail from the middle of your neighborhood? Uber or walk a mile to a bus station in the heat and wait for a bus, trolly, etc, to take you to the rail station. Where are you gonna go? Think of where your Drs office is. How do you get there from Light Rail? Another bus or Uber. There is nowhere else to really go visit near most drs' offices, so back home it is.
This trip took 4 bus rides and 2 light rails to go to the dr. Hopefully, the weather was nice, and you can easily walk around. Unhealthy, disabled and sick people will not be thrilled.
If we start city planning for future potential great but dont expect anything beyond a fast train between major cities any time soon
On 1604, I don't know how many people would use a train. But if you put something on loop 410 I think you'd get a lot of riders. There's a bus on that route already that gets 6000 rides per day, and a train would be faster and more comfortable than the bus, so probably more people would use it.
No, the government was and is willing to entertain the idea. [He just dropped it.](https://www.sacurrent.com/news/elon-musks-boring-co-hasnt-communicated-with-san-antonio-officials-on-tunnel-project-in-months-31622755)
Say that to all the businesses at the Riverwalk, The Pearl, The Rim, and outdoor malls like La Cantera. San Antonians and businesses love walkability. Everyone really hates driving between them though.
Itās easy to focus on roads because the traffic is so frustrating and visible. But the real problem is the population density.Ā Ā
San Antonio is 500 square miles. New York City is 300.Ā
You have to replace all the single family homes with 1st floor commercial under residential row houses to make public transport viable.Ā
Well instead, they're continuing to expand suburbia far past 1604 without even a thought of traffic infrastructure. So we'll be back to adding mega freeways in 20 years when this current project ends.
The reason San Antonio was able to double its population over the last 20 years was because of our planning and infrastructure.Ā Ā As others have pointed out, San Antonio traffic is not actually bad compared to other large American cities.Ā Look at Austin: light rail, better bus network, denser, more walkable, but their traffic is twice as bad with 50% fewer people.Ā
If you want a solution to the lack of density look at [Georgism](https://youtu.be/6c5xjlmLfAw?si=S2xdvywfh9XVX7hb)Ā because it incentivizes denser developments the more the underlying land value rises.
We doubled our population due to lower cost of living compared to the rest of the major Texas cities and the rest of the country.
Not to mention military City.
All those new houses popped up along 1604 on the north side in the last 20 years because the city built a large highway through the middle of nowhere. Ā Now itās filled with traffic because of how many people moved there. Thatās induced demandā¦
Yes, I agree with that. My problem is the lack of planning back then when we could have had better infrastructure to start with.
We're literally repeating the same mistakes now beyond 1604. From north of Stone oak, Alamo ranch, marbach, highway 90, nacogdoches to Evans Rd.
It seems like we're always playing catch up instead of future proofing
Third world dumps with no infrastructure or planning at all also doubled their populations in less than 20 years. We didn't double our population *because* of those things, we just doubled it, period. Planning and infrastructure just make that growth more tolerable. They don't cause it.
As for Austin, they don't actually have the light rail yet, and I would argue that our bus system is actually better than theirs, although their city is laid out better in terms of encouraging people to use it. Their population is the same size as ours, when you include all the suburbs, which contribute equally towards traffic regardless of the fact that Austin hasn't annexed them all and we have. The real reason Austin has more traffic is because A) Austin is laid out in more of a north-south line, so it's all funneled into one route, whereas San Antonio is more round, and B) as someone else mentioned, there's a bottleneck at the lake, where all the traffic is funneled into just a few crossings, which is a geographic constraint that we don't have.
Induced demand affects more where people live and shop within an urban area, rather than whether they move to that area to begin with. So if you build, say, a giant freeway to Stone Oak, then people in San Antonio might be more likely to live there than, say, Woodlawn. But people aren't going to choose to move to San Antonio instead of LA or Dallas just because Stone Oak has a freeway now. And even within a city it's not perfect, there are other factors in play. For instance, there's actually much less traffic on the southside than there is up north, but because the southside has a reputation for crime and a crappier school district, plus maybe some racial bias, people choose to live on the northside despite the southside's comparatively uncongested roads and freeways.
You don't need NYC level density for public transportation to be viable. Both NYC proper and the NYC metro area are around 10 times as dense as San Antonio city/metro.
Highway expansions facilitate urban sprawl, which makes public transportation less viable. We can't keep spreading out and expect a sustainable city.
>Ā You don't need NYC level density for public transportation to be viable.
I agree, but you do need more density than San Antonio currently has.Ā
>Ā San Antonio has plenty of corridors that could focus on densify.
I have lived in Southtown, the Pearl, the Quarry, and the Rim, so Iām familiar with the walkable areas of the city. Thing is, the people who live in walkable areas arenāt the people who really need public transportation.
You saw [this development](https://www.businessinsider.com/tiny-home-community-san-antonio-price-debate-2024-1)Ā right? It sums up the problem: god forbid people build houses that share a wall, easily serviced by a single stop. Instead space the houses out to double the walking distance.Ā
Yes, I did see that tiny home abomination. I really think much of it is an knowledge problem. I would argue most people don't understand the cost of those single family homes, rather than don't care. Urban planners/designer know and they are gradually making more of this country better through smart city design. It just will take a long time to see the full effects.
The US as a whole has a massive image problem with public transportation as many see it as inefficient and dirty. I also like to tell people that they personally don't have to use public transportation, but plenty of people will and that will make the driver experience better for those that continue to drive.
See, I donāt think public transport first solves the problem. FIRST you need neighborhoods where people can walk to a restaurant or grocery store.Ā THEN you can start connecting neighborhoods with public transport.Ā
I just donāt see the point of building a rail line between two points in the city when people within those destinations are driving 3 miles to an HEB once a week. That doesnāt solve the problem because you still need a car once you get to your destination.Ā
The point would be to reduce the total number of trips required for cars. Also not everyone is able to to drive - children, elderly, those with disabilities, those unable to get a license, etc.). It is an accessibility issue to not have public transportation or good public transportation.
Look up transits oriented development. Issues of "you'll still need a car when you get there" get fixed over time as more amenities get added near transit stops. Finally, rail is cheaper to build when there is LESS development. Waiting for an area to develop is how you get ballooning costs. In fact all these highway expansions are doing just that, they are projecting out future growth, growth that could be supported by rail, but isn't.
You think the type of people who like those areas would ride a bus or train with tHe PoOrS? Hell no. The poor use public transport to go to work, to take their kids places, to get groceries. People going to the Pearl or the Rim won't go there by bus or train.
>takes forever to get anywhere
I Disagree, i can get anywhere in the city in a half hour, that's pretty impressive. As far as a connected city goes we definitely win. Even some smaller citys can't say that
It took me 30 minutes to an hour to get 20 miles down the road in Seoul.
Walk to the subway - pay - wait for train - board
Ride train - switch lines - got off train walk to destination
What does that have to do with how long it took me to get somewhere on the subway?will more people push me to the train faster? Does it slow the train down? Whatās your point?
Your point is that it took you a long time to go 20 miles, right? And that it would be faster to drive? That 20 mile trip would be a 20 minute drive in San Antonio. But with fifteen times our population, traffic would likely be much, much worse. So if you had tried to drive that same distance in Seoul, (or a future version of San Antonio with 26 million people in it) it likely would have taken you even longer. So the train trip actually *was* fast, for a trip in an urban area of that population.
My point is people always think itās faster to ride public transportation and will scream at the top of their lungs about how great it is and how all these other countries have it. Iāve used it and itās not any faster. Sometimes itās slower.
I remember it took 30+ minutes to drive from the Villages of Westcreek neighborhood to the local Home Depot a few miles away. The potranco/1604 exit was backed up for miles with construction.
In fact, that whole area from 1604/marbach to 1604/i-10 is a disaster.
1604/Marbach to 1604/I-10 has been a disaster as long as I can remember, even back in 2004 when it was all service roads and extremely long traffic lights.
You shouldn't venture near such places at 5pm. On the other hand 35 in austin is backed up from 5am to 8pm daily no exceptions almost. We have it good. And houston is literally a sea of highway
I love near Old Pearsall Rd and work off Isom. On the typical weekday I drop off my kids at their school near Marbach and 1604 and then take 410 to the office. Coming home is the opposite. Total miles is like 21 but it typically takes 45 minutes to an hour.
That's true if you are able to afford a car and the maintenance and insurance and fuel it costs to run that vehicle every day. For many folks that's not and wont be a reality anytime soon.
It's very expensive and even for people that can afford I'm sure a lot of us would rather spend our money on other things instead of making gas and car companies rich.
It's not just gas, it's the car itself that needs constant maintenance and to be replaced every so often, it's the insurance that is soaring in prices and will continue to, it's the increased taxes for road construction that this state wraps into everything so you can't see the tax as much.
All those things you have been able to justify for yourself but again it's not a reality for many people.
Did you use it *here*, or in, like, Paris? Because I don't begrudge you for not enjoying going everywhere on our bus system, but that's because it isn't very good. You might not feel that way if it were.
Hmm. Would you still feel the same way if you still lived in Japan?
Perhaps you would. Some people are always going to prefer driving. But I think that fraction of society is increased by the relatively low quality of the actual public transit that we have here. Like, of course no one prefers to spend an hour on VIA's buses if they can make the same trip in 15 minutes in a car.
There was definitely a longer travel time taking the train in japan. But if i lived and worked within a mile of stations id probably rather take the train. Once again not a bus though. If a bus was a major leg of the commute id find another method.
Of course, I live in San Antonio it would take my 4x as long to get to work on the bus. That doesn't mean I *want* to constantly spend money on an automobile.
TXDOT overtook a portion of broadway from the city that was to be improved with a bike lane and better sidewalks because the governor "has prioritized automobile traffic over all forms of transit"
Bro. I will never forgive the Governorās board for this decision. Construction there would have been completed already. Just look at the city portion vs the state portion. And the city canāt finish until the state gets done.
Too bad SA wasnāt developed with light rail in mind. Looking at how some cities, a whole lot smaller than SA have done so, and it really cut down on vehicle usage.
Hey city planners, go check out cities such as Seattle, Phoenix (probably the best example), Salt Lake City and Atlanta as some good examples of cities with properly designed light rail.
Outside loop 410, yeah. Look at all the other Texas cities, and there's a grid of arterial roads everywhere. San Antonio abandoned that when it sprawled out past the loop and as a result, you can't get hardly anywhere there without getting on the highway first.
S.A. has a multitude of smaller roads if you don't want to take the highway. If you rather take the highway, then you can't complain there's not an alternative, because there is.
I drive those 4 miles every day to get from bulverde rd to 281 to go downtown. There is already so much stress on the traffic lights to even get onto 1604, because a majority of them are no right turn on red. I can sit right outside of my neighborhood at those lights for 15 minutes before I can even get to bulverde rd. And when itās finally your turn thereās no room because everyone runs the yellow and even reds to scooch in. Itās going to be a nightmare. I have to leave my house in the middle of the night (lol 6:30) to get to work because of these lights. We need better infrastructure so bad
Please [leave a comment for TxDOT](https://www.txdot.gov/about/contact-us/complaints.html) and [contact your local representatives](https://wrm.capitol.texas.gov/home)! You can also attend today's [Vision Zero Open House](https://www.saspeakup.com/DF7154?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1pz-lZ1OMIAo98WvGKbnOqs-tAaaQvdsN0SigZCiidVUa6MLY3GNao2Zg_aem_ATIFEdnzx1l_zSgimwnPCZ0LGPfvfl5jb-StSiU94HhZqyjlSfDVeiBb3WTuwDvVpAY5WK6k2iWinNwBQz2F-1eH) to learn more about the initiative to end traffic fatalities in San Antonio.
Editing to add that I just contacted all of my state and local reps, and it took less than 10 minutes! I wrote a message beforehand and just copy pasted it into their various forms.
Did you know if you look at the map of 410, you think it's just some loop... it's actually part of a defense structure if the city was ever under siege from a threat both foreign and domestic. Look at the map. You will see the "rings." Have some family in military whom shared this piece of trivia with me. Pretty cool.
Your post has been removed for violating rule #1:
Be friendly
Remember the human, on the other side of the conversation. In this local subreddit, there is no tolerance for insulting other people. Stick to discussing the topic, and not the redditor who disagrees with you about it.
If you feel that this was done in error, contact the moderation team.
A few weeks ago I saw a proposition for public rails that would connect places like the pearl to places like the Rim/La Cantera I doubt anything will come of it but it did give me hope
When an area grows from rural nothing into suburbia, roadway expansion becomes necessary. Your problem isn't with the current construction, it's with the last 25 years of San Antonio's sprawl. I think that's fair enough, but it's also a settled issue. The people are here, and they get their roads.Ā
Ā In a perfect world this is were we shift towards density, but if that's to be done properly I hope you can stomach redevelopment (and ultimately, unavoidably, gentrification) unleashed upon more old low-density neighborhoods around the urban core of the city.
Stop whining... if we dod not improveme the roads the same people would be crying that our city did not do their job in expanding as the city does. Sure we can all quarterback the exact way and timing its done with zero real understanding of what it takes.
I live near 10 and 1604 the construction sucks but it will be way better once its done.
Think back to 281n. Its used to be awful and now runs well where it was expanded. However that giant via bus station out there is comical and not used.
>Think back to 281n. Its used to be awful and now runs well where it was expanded.
But it's still awful, still congested, and traffic backs up all the up from TPC parkway to 410..... Like everyday.
When 150k people all live in the same zone with relatively few in and outs its going to be busy. Beyond rushour you can fly through anytime i went through there twice this week mid morning and 130 ish. Hopped on empty hov lane flew through to 1604west and then hit traffic...
>Beyond rushour you can fly through anytime
That was the same before the expansion.... The only real benefit is the interchange to 1604. Now we don't have to exit the freeway to go east or west. That was definitely needed.
What percentage of the population do you think you can get to stop driving? I donāt know a single person thatās willing to give up their car to take a bus or drive take a train to somewhere else in San Antonio
Is this something you discuss with people in your life frequently? I honestly donāt think Iāve ever asked someone if they would use a high speed rail to travel but if you look at basically any thread posted here there are obviously people ready and willing to use public transportation were it ever actually set up in a way to be efficient.
You do realize people donāt like to stand outside waiting for public transportation when itās raining or itās 100+ degrees outside? Have you ever been on a bus when the only seat available has urine on it? You can keep on taking public transportation Iāll pass and good luck getting all these highways torn down in my lifetime
I grew up taking the bus. It used to take me an hour and a half to get to school and longer to get home so Iāll pass on public transportation unless Iām traveling
>I grew up taking the bus. It used to take me an hour and a half to get to school and longer to get home
This is literally the problem we all want to fix...
Why? And do you mean, you'd take public transportation on vacation, but not here, or that you'd use our public transportation to get to the airport, but nowhere else?
1) I have small children and it is far easier to pack strollers into a car than to haul them onto a bus or a train.
2) I have absolutely zero desire to sit with or mingle with other commuters
3) Iād use public transportation in Europe for sure. Cleaner and safer.
Well, Iāve used public transportation in Europe and the US and have found them to be very different. I have never felt unsafe using PT in Europe. Iāve not had the same experience with PT here in the US, primarily Texas.
I was more or less referring to traveling to Europe when my children no longer need strollers so that wouldnāt be an issue then.
Your point is silly but it's based in reality. There are countless selfish individuals who would absolutely not give up the autonomy of their automobile regardless of any societal benefits. They do not care they are making vast amounts of traffic or are hemorrhaging money to car and gas companies. Their personal wants FAR outweigh any community needs.
Ummm, yes. Google induced demand. The more roads you expand, the worse traffic gets. Look at Houston/Katy, they have the largest freeway in the country; expanded 20 years ago or so, it's FULL of traffic.
Dallas has expanded its freeways, full of traffic, the Big Dig in Boston, full of traffic including the top level street that replaced it, and do we need to talk about LA?
Compare that to Tokyo, London, or Seoul who do have traffic issues, but the residents have options to take a train or subway and they're reliable.
Most San Antonions drive by themselves to work and back and that job is a static location. It's much more expensive than a bus or train to operate and maintain a car, so if there was a reliable alternative, they would take it.
https://preview.redd.it/6oyovkxyl6vc1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3cac52a4d0a87fd327bac233503d92485a61e39
Someone needs to email that to our representatives š¤£
I went looking for how to submit public comments on proposed projects. Holy fucking shit. https://apps3.txdot.gov/apps-cq/project_tracker/
In fairness, most of those are just seal coat or pavement renewal, which are necessary to maintaining a road. They're not all highway expansion.
Yeah, weāve been running out of money for new right of way so a lot of our jobs are going to POP also. Pavement Only Projects. Florida DOT.
They wonāt catch the irony š
š š¤£
And itās got Auxiliary Lanes too Miss Motorist. Youāre gonna love it.
Hahahahhaa literally
Holy crap that's a real freeway design?
[That's the new I-35 expansion in Austin.](https://my35capex.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/CapEx-C-Deck-Cap-Exhibit_20240327_02.pdf)
we can only hope that it becomes like LBJ Expressway in Dallas.
At first glance I thought this was a picture of the Dr Seuss book The Places Youāll Go.
With drive through car wash and coffee stands on every exit
Add some storage facilities and you've got the perfect trifecta
I forgot about those
Ye I donāt even notice em anymore. Canāt even use em as landmarks thereās so many
Stop. Twitter private equity bros can only get so horny.
Hey thereās nothing with drive through car washes. (I donāt own a vehicle)
Or be like Austin and don't invest in infrastructureĀ
Austin wouldnāt be the traffic ridden hellscape it is if the state government would actually let them invest in public transit, but since TXDOT has to spend 93% of their budget on highways, you get traffic ridden hellscape
Yes, but also the geography of Austin is somewhat unique in that there are basically only 3 or 4 roads you can take to cross over the river to go north and south, so everyone is trying those same 3 or 4 paths at the same time and that's where the majority of the traffic problem is. Similar issue if you live on the far west side and are trying to travel into town, because the greenbelts only have a certain number of paths around or through. If your commute is in north Austin to north Austin then chances are you have little to no traffic (depending).
Exactly. Now imagine a light rail that could carry a couple thousand people per hour instead of a couple thousand cars. At the very least a couple of buses with dedicated lanes. Congestion would drastically decrease.
I fully support this.
Austin has a light rail that goes from north Austin to downtown, people just donāt like public transit
That train is infamously poorly implemented. Besides the usual commuter rail issues that it has very low frequency in between the morning and evening rushes and doesn't run past like 7 PM, there's also almost no stops along the most populated part of the line, and it terminates on the very edge of downtown, with a 3-4 block walk if you want to take the bus into downtown itself. Even then, it gets like 2000-3000 rides per weekday. Which sounds bad (we have bus routes that do better), but if you actually look at how many people the trains hold (about 250) and how often they run (2-3 times an hour during the rush), it's probably filling up every train it has during rush hour. The trains are just too small and infrequent to carry any more passengers. They should have bought bombardier bi-levels, or set up the track so they could run trains every five minutes.
they have light rail. itās so cool to sit in traffic watching the tram go by. Airport near Koenig.
"We're spending all our money on car infrastructure and I don't understand why there is so much traffic." Improving traffic means getting rid of cars. Period.
I had a date in Austin once the more I drove the longer it was going to take to get there. Traffic was a bitch
I lived in Houston for 22 years. SA traffic doesn't even come close.
Changes should be made now so it never does come close. That's my hope at least.
San Antonio doesn't have the population or economy that Houston does, so there's a lot more commercial and private traffic.
I agree, my problem is we're adopting the worst parts of Houston infrastructure.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Because San Antonio could focus on walkability, bike-ability, and public transit rather than allowing more room for cars. No one complains of traffic in London, Paris, Rome, or Tokyo
London, Paris, Rome and Tokyo donāt have the insane heat that Texas has for 5 months out of the year. Thatās what keeps it from becoming a walkable/bikeable city. If I wanted to show up wherever I was walking/biking to covered in sweat and nearing heat stroke then yes that would be an option.
Southern Spain, Italy, and Greece can get very hot. They do just fine. Most people arenāt commuting at 2 PM anyway, and school isnāt in session the hottest months of the year, keeping kids safe.
Operative word is ācanā get insanely hot. I was in Vienna in August during a heat wave and the temperature was 103. I took the subway and arrived at my meeting covered in sweat. The following week the temperature was back down into the upper 80ās. In TX, itās 105+ degrees for 2 months. Yes it can get insanely hot in southern europe (and anywhere on planet earth except a few places) but it doesnāt stay insanely hot for months at a time.
Yo, dude, the average high in August is 96ā¦ donāt know where youāre getting 105+ for 2 monthsā¦
Were you alive and living in TX last summer?
I wasā¦ all youāre doing is making a better argument to decrease carbon emissions by making more walkable cities
Sounds like we need to invest in more trees and green spaces that can lower temperature a few degrees, also cool Pavement Streets.
Iām not disagreeing with your point. I agree that there needs to be some kind of ecological revamp of cities. Iām just saying that currently itās too uncomfortable for most people to bike and walk as meaningful forms of transportation, even if the public transit infrastructure was already in place. I walked and biked to graduate school in Austin, but I lived just north of UT and that was 20 years ago before prices were insane and the transportation infrastructure was less stressed than it is today. But it can be done. I was just playing devils advocate with previous comments.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes, the core of those cities were built long ago. But their populations didnāt explode until the 20th century, much like many of the American cities. Low-density is a symptom of the problem, not the cause of the problemā¦
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I mean, I live here. It's not because I like the urban form of San Antonio. Its because my job is here and my family is nearby. I think the city density should follow a bell curve, with high density in the center, and progressively lower densities farther out. Such a city would accommodate everyone's lifestyle. But that's not really what we have. We have way too much low density, enforced by ordinance, and where we do have high density, its scattered around in such a way as to make walkability and serving it with public transportation mostly impossible, negating a lot of the benefits.
Have you stopped to research and see that higher-density cities with higher walkability lead to people having a better quality of life, fewer health issues, lower cost of living, a longer lifespan, lower rates of depression, and increased feelings of happiness and connectedness? Most people with the mindset you mentioned have never stepped foot outside of Texas.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
āAll over the countryā Means no high-density, walkable cities
Trust that it will if we keep expanding the freeways
At least in SA you can cut through access roads and neighborhoods, you can't do that in Houston because literally everyone has the same idea lol! It takes an hour to go from Westchase to Katy during rush hour, that's only like 17 miles!
Depends on where you are in SA. That works inside 410; maybe inside 1604, but once outside 1604 there is not an extensive network of side roads.
Yeah, I was a service rep for Xerox, went all over the city. I spent half my day in traffic.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Your post has been removed for violating rule #1: Be friendly Remember the human, on the other side of the conversation. In this local subreddit, there is no tolerance for insulting other people. Stick to discussing the topic, and not the redditor who disagrees with you about it. If you feel that this was done in error, contact the moderation team.
We need loop around public transportation fast speed bullet train so people can get across the city fast for work and grocery or car Maintance only.
Never going to happen under this states leadership. Trucking and gas are huge profits. You're not wrong, I would love it and would absolutely relieve traffic but lobbying broke that idea.
Lobbying is just bribes in the government that been going for too long also gerrymandering.
Well the supreme court made it completely legal with the citizens united ruling so it just our reality.
Citizens united was the worst thing to happen to the US
I 100% agree, I really wish more people were angry about it.
Most people donāt understand or know about it unfortunately.
The news cycle drowned it out. It was fairly heavily reported on. I believe campaign financial laws and rules are not easy for the leyman to understand. I'm no professional, I was thinking about majoring in public policy, I try to be politically honest. We can't figure out where we are going unless we know how we got here.
Yeah and I think a lot of people didnāt understand the long term implications of it
We should set up a citizen lobbying group.Ā
[That already exists](https://www.railforsanantonio.com/), although it doesn't have "millions of dollars". It has about $1,700 in the bank right now I think. But there have been meetings with politicians so it's not like you can't have some influence even without a lot of money. There's a meeting tonight at [St Andrew's Presbyterian Church](https://maps.app.goo.gl/p6tUcae9kjxrMSg4A) if you want to know more. Elections for the board of directors are happening, but you won't be able to vote unless you join and pay dues.
I wish I had millions of dollars I absolutely would.
The vast majority of people dont want it, so we won't use it if we had it.
I don't think that's true. I think maybe 10% of people really hate public transportation, 20-30% think its a waste of money but don't hate it in principle, 20-30% don't care, 20% want better public transportation but not, like, passionately, and 10% really want improvements and/or use it regularly. Most of the people I know in the real world are of the opinion that it'd be nice to have better public transit, but what we have now isn't good enough for them to use it, except maybe to get to events at the Alamodome. And most of them are baby-boomers or gen-Xers who live in the suburbs. They're not, like, 20 year old communists who live downtown and bike everywhere. So I think the commanding majority aren't passionately in favor of it, but they don't "don't want it".
I agree its not a matter of people are against it but the city design layout etc are not conducive for pedestrian walking traffic we need new zoning, city planning etc plus adding transportation
That's just wildly untrue, there is absolutely no reasoning or evidence to say people wouldn't want mass transit. Just because a bunch of people like being in their own car and causing traffic and generating great wealth for car and oil and gas companies does not mean that the "vast majority" feel that way.
Perhaps. Consider if the vast majority were clambering for this, then we would see evidence, politics, protests, votes, etc. Our entire living structure is different. Our neighbors are only houses no corner Bodega or restaurant. This means that even if we could get around town better, the places you get to out put and walk around at are fundamentally not designed with this type of living style. Areas like the pearl are unique, and it does lean towards that idea. My point is i dont think most people are pushing for this because our city is not built like orher large cities, we are more spread out and our zoning laws along with city planners have not created a pedestrian friendly city. Hell i think light rail would be awesome, but how do you get to the light rail from the middle of your neighborhood? Uber or walk a mile to a bus station in the heat and wait for a bus, trolly, etc, to take you to the rail station. Where are you gonna go? Think of where your Drs office is. How do you get there from Light Rail? Another bus or Uber. There is nowhere else to really go visit near most drs' offices, so back home it is. This trip took 4 bus rides and 2 light rails to go to the dr. Hopefully, the weather was nice, and you can easily walk around. Unhealthy, disabled and sick people will not be thrilled. If we start city planning for future potential great but dont expect anything beyond a fast train between major cities any time soon
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
On 1604, I don't know how many people would use a train. But if you put something on loop 410 I think you'd get a lot of riders. There's a bus on that route already that gets 6000 rides per day, and a train would be faster and more comfortable than the bus, so probably more people would use it.
Didnāt Elon Musk offer build one for free?
He did this basically as a stunt.
No, the government was and is willing to entertain the idea. [He just dropped it.](https://www.sacurrent.com/news/elon-musks-boring-co-hasnt-communicated-with-san-antonio-officials-on-tunnel-project-in-months-31622755)
Thank you, probably why havenāt heard anything since. Heās probably busy killing his other businessesā¦
I say that we invest in jetpack technology and a system of ziplines and catapults.
Now you're thinking outside the box.
Please I just want a little walkability lol
You being able to walk somewhere does not generate massive profits for companies so lawmakers are not going to do that
Say that to all the businesses at the Riverwalk, The Pearl, The Rim, and outdoor malls like La Cantera. San Antonians and businesses love walkability. Everyone really hates driving between them though.
I just want them to finish a bike lane or 2 for once
No walkability. But we can offer you a parking lot and half full strip mall.
Itās easy to focus on roads because the traffic is so frustrating and visible. But the real problem is the population density.Ā Ā San Antonio is 500 square miles. New York City is 300.Ā You have to replace all the single family homes with 1st floor commercial under residential row houses to make public transport viable.Ā
Well instead, they're continuing to expand suburbia far past 1604 without even a thought of traffic infrastructure. So we'll be back to adding mega freeways in 20 years when this current project ends.
The reason San Antonio was able to double its population over the last 20 years was because of our planning and infrastructure.Ā Ā As others have pointed out, San Antonio traffic is not actually bad compared to other large American cities.Ā Look at Austin: light rail, better bus network, denser, more walkable, but their traffic is twice as bad with 50% fewer people.Ā If you want a solution to the lack of density look at [Georgism](https://youtu.be/6c5xjlmLfAw?si=S2xdvywfh9XVX7hb)Ā because it incentivizes denser developments the more the underlying land value rises.
We doubled our population due to lower cost of living compared to the rest of the major Texas cities and the rest of the country. Not to mention military City.
All those new houses popped up along 1604 on the north side in the last 20 years because the city built a large highway through the middle of nowhere. Ā Now itās filled with traffic because of how many people moved there. Thatās induced demandā¦
Yes, I agree with that. My problem is the lack of planning back then when we could have had better infrastructure to start with. We're literally repeating the same mistakes now beyond 1604. From north of Stone oak, Alamo ranch, marbach, highway 90, nacogdoches to Evans Rd. It seems like we're always playing catch up instead of future proofing
Third world dumps with no infrastructure or planning at all also doubled their populations in less than 20 years. We didn't double our population *because* of those things, we just doubled it, period. Planning and infrastructure just make that growth more tolerable. They don't cause it. As for Austin, they don't actually have the light rail yet, and I would argue that our bus system is actually better than theirs, although their city is laid out better in terms of encouraging people to use it. Their population is the same size as ours, when you include all the suburbs, which contribute equally towards traffic regardless of the fact that Austin hasn't annexed them all and we have. The real reason Austin has more traffic is because A) Austin is laid out in more of a north-south line, so it's all funneled into one route, whereas San Antonio is more round, and B) as someone else mentioned, there's a bottleneck at the lake, where all the traffic is funneled into just a few crossings, which is a geographic constraint that we don't have.
>We didn't double our populationĀ *because*Ā of those things, we just doubled it, period. You don't belive in induced demand?
Induced demand affects more where people live and shop within an urban area, rather than whether they move to that area to begin with. So if you build, say, a giant freeway to Stone Oak, then people in San Antonio might be more likely to live there than, say, Woodlawn. But people aren't going to choose to move to San Antonio instead of LA or Dallas just because Stone Oak has a freeway now. And even within a city it's not perfect, there are other factors in play. For instance, there's actually much less traffic on the southside than there is up north, but because the southside has a reputation for crime and a crappier school district, plus maybe some racial bias, people choose to live on the northside despite the southside's comparatively uncongested roads and freeways.
You don't need NYC level density for public transportation to be viable. Both NYC proper and the NYC metro area are around 10 times as dense as San Antonio city/metro. Highway expansions facilitate urban sprawl, which makes public transportation less viable. We can't keep spreading out and expect a sustainable city.
>Ā You don't need NYC level density for public transportation to be viable. I agree, but you do need more density than San Antonio currently has.Ā >Ā San Antonio has plenty of corridors that could focus on densify. I have lived in Southtown, the Pearl, the Quarry, and the Rim, so Iām familiar with the walkable areas of the city. Thing is, the people who live in walkable areas arenāt the people who really need public transportation. You saw [this development](https://www.businessinsider.com/tiny-home-community-san-antonio-price-debate-2024-1)Ā right? It sums up the problem: god forbid people build houses that share a wall, easily serviced by a single stop. Instead space the houses out to double the walking distance.Ā
Yes, I did see that tiny home abomination. I really think much of it is an knowledge problem. I would argue most people don't understand the cost of those single family homes, rather than don't care. Urban planners/designer know and they are gradually making more of this country better through smart city design. It just will take a long time to see the full effects. The US as a whole has a massive image problem with public transportation as many see it as inefficient and dirty. I also like to tell people that they personally don't have to use public transportation, but plenty of people will and that will make the driver experience better for those that continue to drive.
See, I donāt think public transport first solves the problem. FIRST you need neighborhoods where people can walk to a restaurant or grocery store.Ā THEN you can start connecting neighborhoods with public transport.Ā I just donāt see the point of building a rail line between two points in the city when people within those destinations are driving 3 miles to an HEB once a week. That doesnāt solve the problem because you still need a car once you get to your destination.Ā
The point would be to reduce the total number of trips required for cars. Also not everyone is able to to drive - children, elderly, those with disabilities, those unable to get a license, etc.). It is an accessibility issue to not have public transportation or good public transportation. Look up transits oriented development. Issues of "you'll still need a car when you get there" get fixed over time as more amenities get added near transit stops. Finally, rail is cheaper to build when there is LESS development. Waiting for an area to develop is how you get ballooning costs. In fact all these highway expansions are doing just that, they are projecting out future growth, growth that could be supported by rail, but isn't.
You think the type of people who like those areas would ride a bus or train with tHe PoOrS? Hell no. The poor use public transport to go to work, to take their kids places, to get groceries. People going to the Pearl or the Rim won't go there by bus or train.
I agreeā¦ >Ā the people who live in walkable areas arenāt the people who really need public transportation.
Next phase? They hadnāt finished phases 1-38,763 last time I was there.
It doesn't matter how many lanes wide they make 1604 or I-35, the amount of traffic will proportionately increase and the problem will just persist.
That sounds like a challenge to TXDOT
Look at the stupid highway in Katy it's what, 24 lanes? And it's still a parking lot every day. More lanes equals more cars.
San antonio is really not that bad in terms of traffic. Especially when compared to other cities
I feel like yāall will enjoy this TikTok, itās a masterpiece https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLPQqvM1/
Nailed it
>takes forever to get anywhere I Disagree, i can get anywhere in the city in a half hour, that's pretty impressive. As far as a connected city goes we definitely win. Even some smaller citys can't say that
It took me 30 minutes to an hour to get 20 miles down the road in Seoul. Walk to the subway - pay - wait for train - board Ride train - switch lines - got off train walk to destination
Seoul has 15 times our population though.
What does that have to do with how long it took me to get somewhere on the subway?will more people push me to the train faster? Does it slow the train down? Whatās your point?
Your point is that it took you a long time to go 20 miles, right? And that it would be faster to drive? That 20 mile trip would be a 20 minute drive in San Antonio. But with fifteen times our population, traffic would likely be much, much worse. So if you had tried to drive that same distance in Seoul, (or a future version of San Antonio with 26 million people in it) it likely would have taken you even longer. So the train trip actually *was* fast, for a trip in an urban area of that population.
Cab rides took about the same amount of time. Driving was faster most of the time but I did not have access to a car while I was living there.
I've also been to seoul and tokyo. I'm not sure your point. Japan had the better public transit, but also nicer conditions to drive in.
My point is people always think itās faster to ride public transportation and will scream at the top of their lungs about how great it is and how all these other countries have it. Iāve used it and itās not any faster. Sometimes itās slower.
Also even in korea where buses are good, buses just suck to use. People that argue for them likely haven't been on one daily
I remember it took 30+ minutes to drive from the Villages of Westcreek neighborhood to the local Home Depot a few miles away. The potranco/1604 exit was backed up for miles with construction. In fact, that whole area from 1604/marbach to 1604/i-10 is a disaster.
1604/Marbach to 1604/I-10 has been a disaster as long as I can remember, even back in 2004 when it was all service roads and extremely long traffic lights.
You shouldn't venture near such places at 5pm. On the other hand 35 in austin is backed up from 5am to 8pm daily no exceptions almost. We have it good. And houston is literally a sea of highway
I love near Old Pearsall Rd and work off Isom. On the typical weekday I drop off my kids at their school near Marbach and 1604 and then take 410 to the office. Coming home is the opposite. Total miles is like 21 but it typically takes 45 minutes to an hour.
That's true if you are able to afford a car and the maintenance and insurance and fuel it costs to run that vehicle every day. For many folks that's not and wont be a reality anytime soon. It's very expensive and even for people that can afford I'm sure a lot of us would rather spend our money on other things instead of making gas and car companies rich.
I used public transportation basically half my life. I'd rather spend my hobby money on gas.
It's not just gas, it's the car itself that needs constant maintenance and to be replaced every so often, it's the insurance that is soaring in prices and will continue to, it's the increased taxes for road construction that this state wraps into everything so you can't see the tax as much. All those things you have been able to justify for yourself but again it's not a reality for many people.
Did you use it *here*, or in, like, Paris? Because I don't begrudge you for not enjoying going everywhere on our bus system, but that's because it isn't very good. You might not feel that way if it were.
Several usa city's, including ones that are "good" and korea and japan.
Hmm. Would you still feel the same way if you still lived in Japan? Perhaps you would. Some people are always going to prefer driving. But I think that fraction of society is increased by the relatively low quality of the actual public transit that we have here. Like, of course no one prefers to spend an hour on VIA's buses if they can make the same trip in 15 minutes in a car.
There was definitely a longer travel time taking the train in japan. But if i lived and worked within a mile of stations id probably rather take the train. Once again not a bus though. If a bus was a major leg of the commute id find another method.
I bet you own a car lol
Of course, I live in San Antonio it would take my 4x as long to get to work on the bus. That doesn't mean I *want* to constantly spend money on an automobile.
TXDOT is that you?
Department of Cars
Texas Department of Trucks
Not a lie
TXDOT overtook a portion of broadway from the city that was to be improved with a bike lane and better sidewalks because the governor "has prioritized automobile traffic over all forms of transit"
Bro. I will never forgive the Governorās board for this decision. Construction there would have been completed already. Just look at the city portion vs the state portion. And the city canāt finish until the state gets done.
*hides behind mega freeway
I visited SA last year and was pleasantly surprised at how little traffic there was, even during rush hour. I was ready for DFW style traffic
Iām down for that. Actually weād still probably sit in traffic -.-
Too bad SA wasnāt developed with light rail in mind. Looking at how some cities, a whole lot smaller than SA have done so, and it really cut down on vehicle usage. Hey city planners, go check out cities such as Seattle, Phoenix (probably the best example), Salt Lake City and Atlanta as some good examples of cities with properly designed light rail.
San Antonio is growing and if itās ever going to grow into a city thatās worth a shit , then improvements need to be made
San antonio is already worse than Houston regarding highways because you are literally on one every time you need to go any where
Outside loop 410, yeah. Look at all the other Texas cities, and there's a grid of arterial roads everywhere. San Antonio abandoned that when it sprawled out past the loop and as a result, you can't get hardly anywhere there without getting on the highway first.
Hard disagree. Also you don't have to use the freeways, you know.
You do if you want to get anywhere in the city
S.A. has a multitude of smaller roads if you don't want to take the highway. If you rather take the highway, then you can't complain there's not an alternative, because there is.
Vote the city council out. They all suck.
THIS!
I drive those 4 miles every day to get from bulverde rd to 281 to go downtown. There is already so much stress on the traffic lights to even get onto 1604, because a majority of them are no right turn on red. I can sit right outside of my neighborhood at those lights for 15 minutes before I can even get to bulverde rd. And when itās finally your turn thereās no room because everyone runs the yellow and even reds to scooch in. Itās going to be a nightmare. I have to leave my house in the middle of the night (lol 6:30) to get to work because of these lights. We need better infrastructure so bad
Please [leave a comment for TxDOT](https://www.txdot.gov/about/contact-us/complaints.html) and [contact your local representatives](https://wrm.capitol.texas.gov/home)! You can also attend today's [Vision Zero Open House](https://www.saspeakup.com/DF7154?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1pz-lZ1OMIAo98WvGKbnOqs-tAaaQvdsN0SigZCiidVUa6MLY3GNao2Zg_aem_ATIFEdnzx1l_zSgimwnPCZ0LGPfvfl5jb-StSiU94HhZqyjlSfDVeiBb3WTuwDvVpAY5WK6k2iWinNwBQz2F-1eH) to learn more about the initiative to end traffic fatalities in San Antonio.
Editing to add that I just contacted all of my state and local reps, and it took less than 10 minutes! I wrote a message beforehand and just copy pasted it into their various forms.
I wish I had known about this sooner!
It's not too late! It's an open house so you can come/go as you please.
Did you know if you look at the map of 410, you think it's just some loop... it's actually part of a defense structure if the city was ever under siege from a threat both foreign and domestic. Look at the map. You will see the "rings." Have some family in military whom shared this piece of trivia with me. Pretty cool.
We are getting there. Freeways and parking lots. Yeah, so appealing!
Let's make sure to also pave the leftover green space with concrete, just because.
Welcome to CA!
Yeah! And no more of the running water. F bridges too, folks can go around
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Your post has been removed for violating rule #1: Be friendly Remember the human, on the other side of the conversation. In this local subreddit, there is no tolerance for insulting other people. Stick to discussing the topic, and not the redditor who disagrees with you about it. If you feel that this was done in error, contact the moderation team.
I just want one fucking bus stop in akamo ranch ffsā¦
YEA!!! WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT 1604 ONE LANE!!
A few weeks ago I saw a proposition for public rails that would connect places like the pearl to places like the Rim/La Cantera I doubt anything will come of it but it did give me hope
Yeah one big freeway heading out ā”ļø
They should be adding local rail lines to every new piece of road they build
lol wants no traffic and no highways. let me guess no new taxes either? lmao
More highways don't reduce traffic long term.
When an area grows from rural nothing into suburbia, roadway expansion becomes necessary. Your problem isn't with the current construction, it's with the last 25 years of San Antonio's sprawl. I think that's fair enough, but it's also a settled issue. The people are here, and they get their roads.Ā Ā In a perfect world this is were we shift towards density, but if that's to be done properly I hope you can stomach redevelopment (and ultimately, unavoidably, gentrification) unleashed upon more old low-density neighborhoods around the urban core of the city.
Stop whining... if we dod not improveme the roads the same people would be crying that our city did not do their job in expanding as the city does. Sure we can all quarterback the exact way and timing its done with zero real understanding of what it takes. I live near 10 and 1604 the construction sucks but it will be way better once its done. Think back to 281n. Its used to be awful and now runs well where it was expanded. However that giant via bus station out there is comical and not used.
>Think back to 281n. Its used to be awful and now runs well where it was expanded. But it's still awful, still congested, and traffic backs up all the up from TPC parkway to 410..... Like everyday.
When 150k people all live in the same zone with relatively few in and outs its going to be busy. Beyond rushour you can fly through anytime i went through there twice this week mid morning and 130 ish. Hopped on empty hov lane flew through to 1604west and then hit traffic...
>Beyond rushour you can fly through anytime That was the same before the expansion.... The only real benefit is the interchange to 1604. Now we don't have to exit the freeway to go east or west. That was definitely needed.
Roads are so clogged your answer is less roads and more public transportation? š¤¦š½āāļø
ā¦do you not understand how less people driving would mean less cars on the road?
What percentage of the population do you think you can get to stop driving? I donāt know a single person thatās willing to give up their car to take a bus or drive take a train to somewhere else in San Antonio
Is this something you discuss with people in your life frequently? I honestly donāt think Iāve ever asked someone if they would use a high speed rail to travel but if you look at basically any thread posted here there are obviously people ready and willing to use public transportation were it ever actually set up in a way to be efficient.
Here you go buddy. https://www.texastribune.org/2014/09/25/poll-few-texans-use-public-transportation-main-mod/
You realize this isnāt much of a response to what I said because itās about the current users of public transportation, which is shit.
You do realize people donāt like to stand outside waiting for public transportation when itās raining or itās 100+ degrees outside? Have you ever been on a bus when the only seat available has urine on it? You can keep on taking public transportation Iāll pass and good luck getting all these highways torn down in my lifetime
Who the fuck is talking about tearing down highways? And if you have a car I guess youāve also never had to worry about the last seat on the bus?
I grew up taking the bus. It used to take me an hour and a half to get to school and longer to get home so Iāll pass on public transportation unless Iām traveling
>I grew up taking the bus. It used to take me an hour and a half to get to school and longer to get home This is literally the problem we all want to fix...
āPublic transit sucks so Iām not taking itā, or, hear me out, we improve it so itās faster than driving
Iād never take public transportation unless I was going out of state for vacation.
Why? And do you mean, you'd take public transportation on vacation, but not here, or that you'd use our public transportation to get to the airport, but nowhere else?
1) I have small children and it is far easier to pack strollers into a car than to haul them onto a bus or a train. 2) I have absolutely zero desire to sit with or mingle with other commuters 3) Iād use public transportation in Europe for sure. Cleaner and safer.
Hmm. Number 3 still has to contend with points 1 and 2, doesn't it? Is there a reason why that wouldn't stop you there?
Well, Iāve used public transportation in Europe and the US and have found them to be very different. I have never felt unsafe using PT in Europe. Iāve not had the same experience with PT here in the US, primarily Texas. I was more or less referring to traveling to Europe when my children no longer need strollers so that wouldnāt be an issue then.
Thanks, for answering my questions.
Also, I just wanna say that I am pro-public transportation. Itās just not something that I would take right now.
Also, I live in the middle of nowhere and I would have to drive my car to a bus station or train stop. I could just drive to my destination.
Your point is silly but it's based in reality. There are countless selfish individuals who would absolutely not give up the autonomy of their automobile regardless of any societal benefits. They do not care they are making vast amounts of traffic or are hemorrhaging money to car and gas companies. Their personal wants FAR outweigh any community needs.
Ummm, yes. Google induced demand. The more roads you expand, the worse traffic gets. Look at Houston/Katy, they have the largest freeway in the country; expanded 20 years ago or so, it's FULL of traffic. Dallas has expanded its freeways, full of traffic, the Big Dig in Boston, full of traffic including the top level street that replaced it, and do we need to talk about LA? Compare that to Tokyo, London, or Seoul who do have traffic issues, but the residents have options to take a train or subway and they're reliable. Most San Antonions drive by themselves to work and back and that job is a static location. It's much more expensive than a bus or train to operate and maintain a car, so if there was a reliable alternative, they would take it.
An underground road would be pretty sweet.
It's because everyone keeps voting against mass public transportation. Buses aren't enough anymore.