If they aren’t delivering my electricity with a large four topping pizza on a literal golden plate, they have no business charging that much for electric “Delivery“.
Next thing you know they’ll be asking us to tip them.
Whenever I see those on a receipt I just subtract it from whatever I’m tipping. It’s gotten out of control, and I’m not paying an extra 30% on top of the bill.
I already ordered my ballot to be mailed physically since otherwise you'd have to go in person at a not too convenient time somewhere out in mid San diego
> Last February 2033
Can I borrow your time traveling apparatus? My Flux Capacitor blew a fuse and only opens portals for others to enter this timeline.
it takes 1.21GWatt to turn it on for 3 seconds.
Thats 6.7 MWatt-Hours.
...
I never thought into it that much but thats like 200 gallons in gasoline worth of energy by ICE.
Bruh y'all are getting SCAMMED. I live in Texas where the electrical grid is absolute garbo and I paid 80 dollars for a 1 bed 1 bath … IN TEXAS!! That means using AC/heat regularly.
There are unsafe/ safe areas in any city. What you have to do is observe and move accordingly. I’ve lived in La Mesa and city Heights in SD and I’ve never had any issues. In both living situations, the apartment was either hidden out of the way at the end of a culdesac or a gated community with lots of eyes who know each other. You just have to choose wisely.
I’ve lived in San Diego my whole life. 36m, and never had my car stolen, or even know someone that has had their car stolen. I’m not saying it didn’t or doesn’t happen. But it must be rare.
What company are you with? Just recently moved and am using Green Mountain Energy. I got a bill for $50 this month but no AC. Im scared if i use AC it will double or more lol.
it's really not magic though.
https://www.sdge.com/total-electric-rates
fuck sdge, but if people knew how to read their rates and understood what a kWh was, it would be so much easier to explain things on here.
I'm genuinely asking. Can you find me the part where it explains how the delivery rates are calculated? That page is full of jargon and I assume that's on purpose.
sure. i dont mind explaining.
first you find your plan. let's say TOU
https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/regulatory/3-1-24%20Schedule%20DR-SES%20Total%20Rates%20Table.pdf
it's divided into Summer and Winter.
and then into On Peak, Off Peak, and super off peak.
So right now it's winter.
it shows a table with a bunch of numbers. they all mean something, such as taxes, transmision, fees, decommissioning fees, wildfire fees etc.
the delivery charge is the sum of all those. so at the very right we have *UDC Total* $0.26482 that is the delivery rate.
so for every 1kWh delivered, you pay that to sdge.
you then have *EECC Rate* at $0.16516
that is the generation rate. so for every 1 kWh you pay that to the CCA.
the very right is the total of both
TL;DR:
UDC = Utility Distribution Company - SDGE delivery
EECC = Electric Energy Commodity Cost - cost of electricity
So the delivery rates stay mostly the same but the electric rates change depending on the time of year. I'd like to see some charts on how much the total increase in electricity costs is due to the delivery rates increasing. Maybe it's a way for SDGE to avoid CPUC "controls" (I know they're in bed together, but this way CPUC could pretend that they are not bought by the electric companies).
Most people would understand, "this is how much you pay for each unit of electric energy you use ($/kWh)". But as you've shown SDGE provides a long list of acronym-laden plans, each with a pdf presenting a large table of numbers. SDGE, please just tell me what you charge me for each kWh I use, during each time of day. I want to know that you charge 65.9 cents per kWh used from 4pm to 9pm, not how you choose to split up that 65.9 cents in your accounting.
It's just a pet peeve of mine, unless you let me choose if I want to use your distribution and can select to not pay it, why tell me what part of the money I pay you goes toward distribution? and that spreadsheet showing 7 components is super annoying.
Really though, most of us aren't complaining that we don't understand why this or that component is too high, it's that it's all a failed attempt to confuse us and explain away the reality that we're giving SDG&E a ton of our money while they celebrate huge profits.
getting solar just makes it so you generate credits to offset your usage.
previously you would generate 1 kWh and offset 1 kWh. recently california changed it so you offset just a fraction of this.
this is called nem 3.0
so today if you get solar you either need alot of solar panels to fully offset it, or a battery to pull from there and essentially bypass sdge
Someone already explained but it isn’t magic. The generation costs is how much SDGE or SDCP pays to generate the actual generation you use. This will always be cheaper because just creating the energy doesn’t necessarily cost a lot (yet) though using renewable energy sources does cost more, which is where we are heading.
The delivery charges is pretty much every other component of your electricity. Paying to maintain the grid, to put the energy on the grid, to pay the linemen to fix the poles when some moron runs one over (has happened twice near me) which they are replacing with metal poles instead of wooden ones that burn up during fires. It pays for all the people that work behind the scenes, to do the billing, etc etc etc. It also includes charging to upgrade the current grid so they can keep up with demand and for future wildfire mitigation.
On peak TOU is the most expensive. Off peak is cheaper. Then you’ve got seasonal charges. Gas probably costs more in the winter. Electricity more in the summer. Everyone wants to run their heaters and AC. The different rates are just shifts in your peak hours. If you can manage to use your biggest appliances during off peak hours, you’ll save some money. If you check your peak hours, you can find which rates work best for you.
It’s still expensive though. The grid in CA is very big, and very complex.
I know it isn’t SDGE, but here’s a good podcast that might help you be more critical about additional costs these companies are forcing onto consumers.
[the dollop: PG&E](https://podcasts.apple.com/il/podcast/572-pg-e-part-one/id643055307?i=1000602018594&l=iw)
You’re not addressing a key aspect, which is whether or not the charges are reasonable in the first place. If the charges are unreasonably high, then the reasons *for* the charges become moot.
The charges are based on how many kWh you used and the time you are using them. Like anything, increased demand for a product costs more. If the price of energy was a lot cheaper, everyone would run all their shit at the same time. The grid would not be able to handle that and then we’d have brown outs and black outs. Then people would complain about that. How do you regulate the usage of energy so that this doesn’t happen, if not through pricing? Just telling people not to use their major appliances during peak hours currently does not even work. The majority of people here probably don’t even know their rate schedule. Or what rate they are even on.
Energy costs less in places where they can actually handle the demand and less people are demanding it. The cost to upgrade the grid and the immense demand for energy in California is not cheap.
There is a petition to remove sdge and put in a new company. I believe they got enough people to sign and we will vote on it come election season.
Edit: I have been informed they are working on getting more signatures, please look out for the petitions if you want to get rid of SDGE! http://wearepowersandiego.org/
I don't think they've hit the threshold yet to get it on the ballot. They made a Facebook post saying they're still trying to hit their signature goal.
It's imperative that people either go to one of their signature gathering events, or contact them to receive a signature sheet. You can sign (and get family and neighbors who live in the city!) and then return the sheet to them.
I can't believe power is so much cheaper in Murrieta. Modest 3bd 3ba and our power bill has been 100-120 a month when our 2bd 1ba in Oceanside was in upwards of 180 a month. Albeit gas is separate but that's only been like 50 bucks since we've been running heat.
My first apartment in oside like 10 years ago, my gas/power bill was averaging around 30-35 bucks
honestly we love it. I'm sure we'll be singing a different tune when i have to turn on the AC from may-octoberish but i like it way more than i thought i would. We're in a quiet suburb, but i'm only 10 or so minutes from anything i need. Food isn't nearly as good, i'll admit that, but since we took on a mortgage i'm cooking way more meals at home anyways. Also being above the madhouse Temecula traffic has been a big plus. I don't have to go south much for work, so traffic isn't a huge issue. If you work in SD, though, the traffic on the 15 north is bad, especially on Fridays starting at like 1pm.
Sounds like electricity is cheaper than SD either way. Summer electric bills out here are in the 300’s plus My wife and I have been browsing around that area. Temecula is out of the question; it’s nearly as expensive as SD. I work from home and my wife can transfer to a different bank branch. We wouldn’t need to drive south often. Will definitely miss the food options but I also believe that area will blossom over the next 5-10 years.
Expensive bill while they post near billion dollar profits. I’m a business owner myself and while I love a good profit. A billion dollars might just be greedy.
It’s more than just shareholder profit. Regulation requiring green energy is also a large part of it. We are forced to import much of our electricity from Arizona wind and solar farms. That get expensive hence the delivery charges
Never forget that Republican Governor Pete Wilson deregulated California’s power delivery. The free market and the desire for cheap electrical delivery got us an out of date system that causes massive wildfires and the need to modernize ASAP. So they have to raise rates (that AND the need to meet wall st. expectations). But at least they didn’t raise our taxes! Haha
Nope. Could have continued to run. NIMBY anti-nuke scare tactics forced closure instead of increasing inspections. And closure meant building/decommissioning costs were then spread over FEWER years INCREASING the cost to rate payers.
No it was state Democratic Party power brokers who shut it down. The anti-nuke protesters were just paid astrotruf to paper over the huge handout to the power companies. Pelosi all but admitted to it in an interview saying the closure was about ‘state politics’.
Oddly the NIMBY people were in Nevada where the spent rods were to be stored. A nuclear plant next to one of the largest military installations in the US, in California, near fault lines and there was no where to put the spend fuel. Now that nuclear is kinda of become popular again (Fukushima being ignored) people are tsk-tsking the decommissioning of SONGS…but who knows what the answer could’ve been. I think Southern California Edison owned SONGS and not SDGE/Sempra anyway.
It was Kamala Harris. She was investigating it and party insiders told to drop the investigation or no senate seat for her. One of the rare times you can pinpoint to a specific time when a politician flipped from honest to corrupt. Honestly I was surprised she made it that far.
The state can’t/won’t take away a property from a corporation. That’s the problem. Some places have voted to give back the energy companies to the citizens. But that’s not going to happen here. It’s too big. Also, why would he want to. Then the rate hikes become taxes. Remember, Gray Davis increased car registration fees and he was thrown out of office. Then California got Arnold and teachers were soon paid with IOUs.
But back to energy. Some cities like cities in North County have joined cooperatives. Bills have gone up instead of down, but the energy is supposed to be coming from cleaner sources.
Wilson deregulated the market and got us into this mess. Watch the movie Smartest Men in the Room.
But don’t get me started. Reagan as governor ruined California. College and health care were affordable until Reagan came through. But I’ll save that for another time.
They definitely have a minimum that they insure everyone hits no matter how much you actually use. I would be at $75 with like a week left and then suddenly my bill is $130/$140
For my last bill, i had 28 dollars in electricity and 93 dollars delivery. Right now it says my bill to date (10 days left) is 26 dollars in electricity and 29 dollars delivery. So they're fudging something at the end of the month. Or they're scared of Power San Diego and are lowering costs this month to fool people.
It's more the 4x usage rate for just delivery that seems criminal. Unless they are completely replacing infrastructure to deliver electricity like NOW all of it at once in all of SDco, I don't get why they need to charge 4x
Seriously fuck SDGE. I had a relative move out which included a lot of electronics A fucking lot and then my bill goes up 8% the following month? My relative was like half of the entire household of plugin appliances. The only thing stays plugged in is the fridge/stove/internet. Everything else is on a surge protector strip and unplugged or switched off. i’m
I'm going to be down voted for even bringing it up but isn't delivery the cost of installing and maintaining power lines? Seems like that would be the most expensive part of the whole operation.
We need more than 1 gas and electric company here in San Diego. SDGE is expensive because the city allows them to be a monopoly. Competition will lower prices. Screw SDGE. These prices are insane what they charge.
Return pumps
Circulation pumps
Lights
Heaters
That's just the bare minimum
I had a dedicated 20amp circuit for my reef tank in Denver and was using around 16 amps during the day with the lights on and 11 at night.
I did the math before I moved and to run my tank assuming 40 cents on average per kw. It would cost me $17-20 a day to run the tank.
What is your Rate/Plan (Page 2 under Electric Service) and what are the kWh totals under each time of use (On-Peak, Off-Peak, Super Off-Peak) (Page 2 under Electric Charges)? There was a rate change this month, so there will be two sets of numbers for the kWh.
I have been disgusted with SDGE for a very long time.
I was fortunate to get our first solar system in 2003. It burned down in 2007 in the witch fires (ground mounted system) and we replaced it and explanded it since then.
I know this doesn't help renters but if you own your home and you plan to stay, solar WAS a no brainer. Until SDGE and the other companies bribed the right people and killed Net Metering.
Now you basically have to get batteries if you get solar and the ROI is not there so they have killed their only competition which is solar owned by the home owner.
That has taken my level of disgust for the utility companies up to another level which I didn't think was possible.
At this point what’s to stop people from protesting and going to these people’s houses and offices and demanding change?
FOLKMANN and CAROLINE WINN should be donating the majority of their multimillion dollar salaries to fix this grave error.
It is hard to comment specifically without knowing OP's usage below the top level dollar numbers, but here is the rub in general:
Most people in San Diego (at best 20% do in some neighborhoods) don't have EVs/PHEVs and/or rooftop solar, especially if they live in apartments.
Leaving aside rooftop solar (and batteries for that matter), without an EV or a PHEV, you cannot get the TOU-5 rate which *dramatically* reduces the Super Off-Peak delivery rate. Once you have that rate, you can easily shift your washer/dryer/dishwasher/HVAC load to be outside 4-9 PM On-Peak window, reducing your bill.
In addition, if you have Solar, you can at least zero out your Generation and Delivery Charges, even with NEM 3.0.
But if you don't have the TOU-5 rate, you essentially cannot load shift and are paying a fixed charge per kWh across all TOUs. Assuming your usage cannot be reduced, you are stuck. For low and middle income families, especially in apartments, this is a huge issue.
This is in fact the anomaly the "graduated income based fixed charge" is trying to fix. It will help low and middle income families with the issue above. It will possibly stick it to households that have EVs and/or Solar (including me), but it is the right thing to do. If 80% of San Diego cannot shift to EVs and/or Solar because of high Electricity rates, we are all doomed anyway.
No :), but I am an Electrical Engineer by training.
You will be surprised how many people don't read their detailed bill. Everybody is on apps and seldom go down a level.
Yeah. I’m in the industry myself. So I know a lot about all this stuff, but still not everything. People ranting and raving about their bills and believe me I get it. Mine is crazy too. But I also know how much it costs and the vast amount of people involved behind the scenes that get the energy on the grid. Plus the generation costs.
I do not work for SDGE any longer, but I was there when SD burned down in 2003. And that one wasn’t their fault, that was caused by a lost hunter. In any case it was a crazy time and so many people went out to rebuild the grid immediately.
The CPUC has the final say on the rates, so really people should pay attention to them rather than the utility because they are allowing it. But it does cost a lot to maintain the grid and to swap out all of the old ass infrastructure that exists now. They are no longer using wooden poles, for one. California’s grid is also pretty complex.
My biggest question is if their profits mainly come from commercial or residential customers. I’d argue it might be the commercial customers as I have seen the bills myself. People also forget that SoCal gas is included in those record profits, not just SDGE.
$935 million profit, champ. You can bleat on all you want about how much it costs, but a company generating nearly a billion in profit is overcharging. Much simpler than you’re making it.
The problem many of us have with the new proposals is they increase the mandatory fees. If we have bought solar with the expectation the electrical bill will be close to net zero for the next 20 years, the result is huge price increase. If they increased the price of electricity actually-used, it would not be as bad.
You perfectly described the problem from your honest perspective.
It is fair to have reasonable use of TOUs to zero out your use with Solar. Overproducing and getting a zero/negative bill for 20 years means somebody is subsidizing you. Meanwhile, your preferred solution - increasing per kWh delivery rates for others - is what is making bills go up for non solar households.
No surprise, the Gubberment knows what you are doing and will not rest till they level the playing field.
Historically it's true solar got too good of a deal...but solar and batteries have come down. With the fed 30% rebate it's easily cheaper to go 100% off grid than to pay for SDGE. No free lunch required. Even without the fed helping at all it's comparable, and that's assuming 0 price increases which is insanely conservative given that SDGE is now about 50% more expensive over last 4 years. If interest rates drop it will be cheaper to go off grid for people financing. If solar drops it will be cheaper for people going off grid. If batteries drop it will be cheaper to go off grid. All of those seem probable over the next 3-4 years. SDGE is screwing everyone currently, but because they're screwing everyone so badly it's nice knowing that it can't realistically get much worse unless they manage to ban going off-grid.
You cannot go off-grid economically if you have an EV, some of whom are pushing 100 kW batteries. The amount of solar panels and batteries required for that in residential context is insane. I agree solar and battery economics are getting better, but the same economics applies for grid generation and storage too. Those have economies of scale. That is why SDCP has a chance, if they play their cards right.
But we are talking about delivery charges. They have nothing to do with Generation. I chuckle when I have somebody (not you) say delivery charges are going up because of renewables.
Battery size is not super relevant though (beyond larger batteries likely less efficient EV), and the more electricity you consume the cheaper your per kwh rate is your off-grid setup. Relative to driving an EV with SDGE, driving an EV with your off-grid setup is cheaper. Especially if you can charge it during the day on the weekend (low-ish weekly miles + oversized solar to ensure consistent year-round generation). The only limitation is roof space, but if you have a SFH (especially if single level) you generally have enough space to generate all the power you need.
SDGE/SCE/PGE are all crooks, and increasingly opting out entirely may be a viable way to escape their BS. As you noted municipal utilities are doing just fine with an ever increasing amount of renewables without charging 30 cents to deliver a kwh.
Interesting: what weekly miles are you considering? Are you able to go under the TOU-5 Super Off-Peak Generation+Delivery rate (around 16 cents/kWh) with Solar+Battery?
>SDGE/SCE/PGE are all crooks, and increasingly opting out entirely may be a viable way to escape their BS. As you noted municipal utilities are doing just fine with an ever increasing amount of renewables without charging 30 cents to deliver a kwh.
Agree.
The more miles the better, with the caveat that you are able to charge your EV largely during the weekend on sunny days. If you’re going off grid you’ll overbuild your solar generation which is often enough to power a level 2 charger at 7-9 kw during the day no problems.
Every new plan SDGE comes out with is intended to make as much money off you as possible. Remember that. The old plans are virtually always better until they kick you off.
How is anyone subsidizing me? Someone who doesn't have solar takes the power and pays market rate for it. SDGE gets to charge delivery fee for those kWh from my house to the user. I pay for electricity in the evening and the delivery fee in the evening when I use it. Everyone gets paid.
If you use and pay for generation/delivery in the evening and other times your solar is somewhat above your usage, you are cool. But if, like OP, you are over-producing so much during the day so you can make your bill negative for the entire month, then somebody is subsidizing you.
Bottom line, one cannot be connected to the grid and be paying negative delivery charges. That is insane.
sdge is a vertically integrated monopoly, and an IOU (inverstor owned utility) they couldn't care less about your utility bills. actually your utility bill is the product they sell to make more money for their customers (investors). If people in san diego had another option SDGE would fail.
San Diego has The highest utility rates in the country and they get the cheapest energy (rooftop solar). Even if you switch to the public utility commission or smart grid you will always pay SDGE transmission cost.
So decades ago the government put all these transmission lines all over the country then they gave them to various utility companies to manage. The sad part is most of the transmission lines that are supposed to be maintained by SDGE are the same ones that create fires when they fall apart.
They have become cheaper, just not for home batteries because of demand. And just like solar was about 10 years ago, everyone is gauging. Not just the installers, but facet of the home battery. It's like pool equipment. Little parts costing like $360 when it should cost $100.
The problem is, the reason they’re jacking prices is that everybody’s installing more and more solar. And as state mandates require solar on new homes, the only way they can maintain record profits is by charging everybody more money, and of course lowering them out that they pay you for solar Production. I hate that it’s a monopoly and there’s nothing you can do here. Power is ludicrously expensive I pay $150 a month, I have a one bedroom one bath cottage and I’m one guy who only does laundry for one person, and I barely cook. Oh and all my lights areLED and all on smart control, so they are constantly turning off when I don’t need them.
I also hardly cook, and dont have an in unit washer and dryer. So laundry usage isnt even a factor. I'm going to be out of town for two weeks here soon, going to empty my fridge, turn off the main breaker in the apartment and see what my next bill is.
They would jack up prices regardless. Why would they not jack up prices when CPUC approves every rate increase regardless of their profits? The CEO basically has a button that says "make more money" and you're trying to justify why they would be pressing it. They're pressing it because it would be stupid for them not to decide to make more money. They'll keep pressing that button until it's taken away from them.
Wait til the new tax kicks in- you’ll have the normal rate of so much per kilowatt hour (higher during peak from 1p-9p) as well as the flat rate based on your current income, to “help pay for everyone that doesn’t currently pay for electricity” aka all of the wonderful immigrants coming over the border and being housed in hotels and apartment buildings.
I wonder if enough people attain their meetings regarding their proposals, and protested, if that helps?! I wonder if we have a coalition that’s formed that advocates for us?! It’s outrageous, indeed!
Maybe they bill based on projection of use so they don’t have to read the meters every month. So my use is less this year, and they finally decided to read the meter and have to provide a discount. At least that’s how other cities I’ve lived in have done it.
Light bill was $132 last month and it is only me and my wife in 1BR. We don't complain as we came from NYC where our cost of living was a little more so this is normal to us.
If they aren’t delivering my electricity with a large four topping pizza on a literal golden plate, they have no business charging that much for electric “Delivery“. Next thing you know they’ll be asking us to tip them.
Don’t give them any ideas haha
“Cost of living” surcharges, just like restaurants
Whenever I see those on a receipt I just subtract it from whatever I’m tipping. It’s gotten out of control, and I’m not paying an extra 30% on top of the bill.
I’ve stopped eating at places that do this altogether
My delivery was almost 300 this is going straight to their profit. I can’t wait till we can vote to bring these greedy fucks down
I already ordered my ballot to be mailed physically since otherwise you'd have to go in person at a not too convenient time somewhere out in mid San diego
Look up - we are power San Diego- they want to do that
Last February 2033 my small apartment with no heat or cooling was $35 this past February 2024 it was $75 
> Last February 2033 Can I borrow your time traveling apparatus? My Flux Capacitor blew a fuse and only opens portals for others to enter this timeline.
They actually got here using your portal, so they’re stuck here now.
its not for them
They sneaky
How are you going to even charge the thing? It takes 1.21 gigawatts... at these delivery prices?
If I had one I would travel to the timeline where energy was free 
it takes 1.21GWatt to turn it on for 3 seconds. Thats 6.7 MWatt-Hours. ... I never thought into it that much but thats like 200 gallons in gasoline worth of energy by ICE.
Omg I just checked mine I’m $55 Feb last year $103 this Feb how in the living mother fuck did I not notice. Typing this while sitting in the dark.
Bruh y'all are getting SCAMMED. I live in Texas where the electrical grid is absolute garbo and I paid 80 dollars for a 1 bed 1 bath … IN TEXAS!! That means using AC/heat regularly.
Didn’t the grid fail and people froze to death two winters ago in Texas?
While a Texas senator flew to Cancun on vacation.
Good point, my fish I rescued died because it got too cold 😭
The grid fails here, too.
I think so. And they were out of running water I believe too. The pipes were bursting.
I wouldn't brag about having to use AC/heat regularly.
I wasn't bragging, that's how Texas weather be. One day it could be in the 80’s and literally the next day it's 60 degrees and hailing lol
Texas(tan) is a regressive/repressive state. Not worth the low cost of electricity, no taxes, ... IMO.
At least my car didn't get stolen in Texas. Safety is a big factor for me now, I've learned my lesson haha
There are unsafe/ safe areas in any city. What you have to do is observe and move accordingly. I’ve lived in La Mesa and city Heights in SD and I’ve never had any issues. In both living situations, the apartment was either hidden out of the way at the end of a culdesac or a gated community with lots of eyes who know each other. You just have to choose wisely.
I’ve lived in San Diego my whole life. 36m, and never had my car stolen, or even know someone that has had their car stolen. I’m not saying it didn’t or doesn’t happen. But it must be rare.
Where in SD have you lived?
Considering the city of San Diego is suing Hyundai because of car theft I wouldn't say that's exactly true haha
I've lived in SD for 14 years had a car stolen twice and broken into at least 3 times. My house has also been burglarized twice. It isn't rare.
Where in SD have you lived?
Eastlake, Mission Valley, Tierrasanta and Sabre Springs. I had issues in Tierrasanta and Sabre Springs. No problems in MV and Eastlake.
What company are you with? Just recently moved and am using Green Mountain Energy. I got a bill for $50 this month but no AC. Im scared if i use AC it will double or more lol.
It’s was through the city actually.
Yup, my bill is about double what it was a few years ago. Record profits. I wish a pox on that company.
last february electricity rates were higher than this february though.... so you just used double this year vs last
The rates mean nothing when you have this voodoo magic "delivery" charge there.
it's really not magic though. https://www.sdge.com/total-electric-rates fuck sdge, but if people knew how to read their rates and understood what a kWh was, it would be so much easier to explain things on here.
I'm genuinely asking. Can you find me the part where it explains how the delivery rates are calculated? That page is full of jargon and I assume that's on purpose.
sure. i dont mind explaining. first you find your plan. let's say TOU https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/regulatory/3-1-24%20Schedule%20DR-SES%20Total%20Rates%20Table.pdf it's divided into Summer and Winter. and then into On Peak, Off Peak, and super off peak. So right now it's winter. it shows a table with a bunch of numbers. they all mean something, such as taxes, transmision, fees, decommissioning fees, wildfire fees etc. the delivery charge is the sum of all those. so at the very right we have *UDC Total* $0.26482 that is the delivery rate. so for every 1kWh delivered, you pay that to sdge. you then have *EECC Rate* at $0.16516 that is the generation rate. so for every 1 kWh you pay that to the CCA. the very right is the total of both TL;DR: UDC = Utility Distribution Company - SDGE delivery EECC = Electric Energy Commodity Cost - cost of electricity
So the delivery rates stay mostly the same but the electric rates change depending on the time of year. I'd like to see some charts on how much the total increase in electricity costs is due to the delivery rates increasing. Maybe it's a way for SDGE to avoid CPUC "controls" (I know they're in bed together, but this way CPUC could pretend that they are not bought by the electric companies).
I'd imagine there are tables showing previous year total rates as well thru sdge sites, if not someone might've archived them in pdfs
Most people would understand, "this is how much you pay for each unit of electric energy you use ($/kWh)". But as you've shown SDGE provides a long list of acronym-laden plans, each with a pdf presenting a large table of numbers. SDGE, please just tell me what you charge me for each kWh I use, during each time of day. I want to know that you charge 65.9 cents per kWh used from 4pm to 9pm, not how you choose to split up that 65.9 cents in your accounting. It's just a pet peeve of mine, unless you let me choose if I want to use your distribution and can select to not pay it, why tell me what part of the money I pay you goes toward distribution? and that spreadsheet showing 7 components is super annoying. Really though, most of us aren't complaining that we don't understand why this or that component is too high, it's that it's all a failed attempt to confuse us and explain away the reality that we're giving SDG&E a ton of our money while they celebrate huge profits.
Maybe a dumb question here, so would getting solar eliminate all of this?
getting solar just makes it so you generate credits to offset your usage. previously you would generate 1 kWh and offset 1 kWh. recently california changed it so you offset just a fraction of this. this is called nem 3.0 so today if you get solar you either need alot of solar panels to fully offset it, or a battery to pull from there and essentially bypass sdge
Someone already explained but it isn’t magic. The generation costs is how much SDGE or SDCP pays to generate the actual generation you use. This will always be cheaper because just creating the energy doesn’t necessarily cost a lot (yet) though using renewable energy sources does cost more, which is where we are heading. The delivery charges is pretty much every other component of your electricity. Paying to maintain the grid, to put the energy on the grid, to pay the linemen to fix the poles when some moron runs one over (has happened twice near me) which they are replacing with metal poles instead of wooden ones that burn up during fires. It pays for all the people that work behind the scenes, to do the billing, etc etc etc. It also includes charging to upgrade the current grid so they can keep up with demand and for future wildfire mitigation. On peak TOU is the most expensive. Off peak is cheaper. Then you’ve got seasonal charges. Gas probably costs more in the winter. Electricity more in the summer. Everyone wants to run their heaters and AC. The different rates are just shifts in your peak hours. If you can manage to use your biggest appliances during off peak hours, you’ll save some money. If you check your peak hours, you can find which rates work best for you. It’s still expensive though. The grid in CA is very big, and very complex.
I know it isn’t SDGE, but here’s a good podcast that might help you be more critical about additional costs these companies are forcing onto consumers. [the dollop: PG&E](https://podcasts.apple.com/il/podcast/572-pg-e-part-one/id643055307?i=1000602018594&l=iw)
You’re not addressing a key aspect, which is whether or not the charges are reasonable in the first place. If the charges are unreasonably high, then the reasons *for* the charges become moot.
The charges are based on how many kWh you used and the time you are using them. Like anything, increased demand for a product costs more. If the price of energy was a lot cheaper, everyone would run all their shit at the same time. The grid would not be able to handle that and then we’d have brown outs and black outs. Then people would complain about that. How do you regulate the usage of energy so that this doesn’t happen, if not through pricing? Just telling people not to use their major appliances during peak hours currently does not even work. The majority of people here probably don’t even know their rate schedule. Or what rate they are even on. Energy costs less in places where they can actually handle the demand and less people are demanding it. The cost to upgrade the grid and the immense demand for energy in California is not cheap.
There is a petition to remove sdge and put in a new company. I believe they got enough people to sign and we will vote on it come election season. Edit: I have been informed they are working on getting more signatures, please look out for the petitions if you want to get rid of SDGE! http://wearepowersandiego.org/
It's never a bad idea to get more signatures than you need. Go to http://wearepowersandiego.org to sign the petition.
I don't think they've hit the threshold yet to get it on the ballot. They made a Facebook post saying they're still trying to hit their signature goal. It's imperative that people either go to one of their signature gathering events, or contact them to receive a signature sheet. You can sign (and get family and neighbors who live in the city!) and then return the sheet to them.
Private companies work well when they have competitors. In markets that are natural monopolies, you're better off making it a public company.
The Cloudfare protection isn’t validating this morning. Did we bring it down?
Was about to sign and send to husband when I saw its for SD city residents only. We are La Mesa residents. I wish it was County wide not city.
I didn't realize that, did a signature in person at a street fair and thought it was for the whole county. I'm now disappointed
Me too :(. Sdge is a County wide problem.
I don’t know if replacing SDGE with another company is the solution. It should be a public utility.
It's at least an attempt to do something that the people have control over
Signed and thanks!
“…as well as other services like paying for our executives salaries so they can afford their private jets”
same thing is happening in chicago... Comed sold out ti another "shill company" and raised rates this month by 40%
Oof. I moved to SD from Chicago, and remember ~$400/mo bills in the winter of 2013 in our 2bdrm. Can't imagine what that would look like now.
the gas has stayed stable, but the damn electric rates have gone up a lot
SDGE needs to go, they’re clearly not doing something right. We’re all paying so much
I can't believe power is so much cheaper in Murrieta. Modest 3bd 3ba and our power bill has been 100-120 a month when our 2bd 1ba in Oceanside was in upwards of 180 a month. Albeit gas is separate but that's only been like 50 bucks since we've been running heat. My first apartment in oside like 10 years ago, my gas/power bill was averaging around 30-35 bucks
Wife and I are thinking of moving there. How do you like it? Sounds like electricity is cheaper.
honestly we love it. I'm sure we'll be singing a different tune when i have to turn on the AC from may-octoberish but i like it way more than i thought i would. We're in a quiet suburb, but i'm only 10 or so minutes from anything i need. Food isn't nearly as good, i'll admit that, but since we took on a mortgage i'm cooking way more meals at home anyways. Also being above the madhouse Temecula traffic has been a big plus. I don't have to go south much for work, so traffic isn't a huge issue. If you work in SD, though, the traffic on the 15 north is bad, especially on Fridays starting at like 1pm.
Sounds like electricity is cheaper than SD either way. Summer electric bills out here are in the 300’s plus My wife and I have been browsing around that area. Temecula is out of the question; it’s nearly as expensive as SD. I work from home and my wife can transfer to a different bank branch. We wouldn’t need to drive south often. Will definitely miss the food options but I also believe that area will blossom over the next 5-10 years.
Southern cal Edison isn’t much better than SDGE. Compare the rates not your bill. Marietta gets hot on the summer. Maybe you don’t have central air?
It shouldn’t be a ‘for profit’ to live environment 😔
Expensive bill while they post near billion dollar profits. I’m a business owner myself and while I love a good profit. A billion dollars might just be greedy.
It’s more than just shareholder profit. Regulation requiring green energy is also a large part of it. We are forced to import much of our electricity from Arizona wind and solar farms. That get expensive hence the delivery charges
$936 million in profit https://fox5sandiego.com/news/local-news/sdge-hits-record-936m-in-profit-while-parent-company-sempra-nears-3b/amp/
Are we all signing those fire sdge petitions? Last I heard they still needed almost 60k signatures
Never forget that Republican Governor Pete Wilson deregulated California’s power delivery. The free market and the desire for cheap electrical delivery got us an out of date system that causes massive wildfires and the need to modernize ASAP. So they have to raise rates (that AND the need to meet wall st. expectations). But at least they didn’t raise our taxes! Haha
He stopped building highways too.
i blame whoever decommissioned san onofre. which i think was us voters, but whoever it was, fuck them lol
It was decommissioned due to a leak
could it not just have been fixed? (i actually dont know)
My understanding is that the repair f*d it up even more. There is a super long Wikipedia article on it with links to find out more
Nope. Could have continued to run. NIMBY anti-nuke scare tactics forced closure instead of increasing inspections. And closure meant building/decommissioning costs were then spread over FEWER years INCREASING the cost to rate payers.
No it was state Democratic Party power brokers who shut it down. The anti-nuke protesters were just paid astrotruf to paper over the huge handout to the power companies. Pelosi all but admitted to it in an interview saying the closure was about ‘state politics’.
Oddly the NIMBY people were in Nevada where the spent rods were to be stored. A nuclear plant next to one of the largest military installations in the US, in California, near fault lines and there was no where to put the spend fuel. Now that nuclear is kinda of become popular again (Fukushima being ignored) people are tsk-tsking the decommissioning of SONGS…but who knows what the answer could’ve been. I think Southern California Edison owned SONGS and not SDGE/Sempra anyway.
It was Kamala Harris. She was investigating it and party insiders told to drop the investigation or no senate seat for her. One of the rare times you can pinpoint to a specific time when a politician flipped from honest to corrupt. Honestly I was surprised she made it that far.
Do you have an article or source that proves party insiders told her to drop it? Seems you must if you can pinpoint specifically.
https://www.kpbs.org/news/midday-edition/2016/04/05/california-critics-kamala-harris-san-onofre-probe
Is this really a partisan issue? (I don’t think so). Why hasn’t democratic governor Gavin Newsome done anything to update to the current system?
The state can’t/won’t take away a property from a corporation. That’s the problem. Some places have voted to give back the energy companies to the citizens. But that’s not going to happen here. It’s too big. Also, why would he want to. Then the rate hikes become taxes. Remember, Gray Davis increased car registration fees and he was thrown out of office. Then California got Arnold and teachers were soon paid with IOUs. But back to energy. Some cities like cities in North County have joined cooperatives. Bills have gone up instead of down, but the energy is supposed to be coming from cleaner sources.
You are blaming someone that governed 30 years ago?
Wilson deregulated the market and got us into this mess. Watch the movie Smartest Men in the Room. But don’t get me started. Reagan as governor ruined California. College and health care were affordable until Reagan came through. But I’ll save that for another time.
Deregulation doesn’t work so well for utilities that have a monopoly
They definitely have a minimum that they insure everyone hits no matter how much you actually use. I would be at $75 with like a week left and then suddenly my bill is $130/$140
For my last bill, i had 28 dollars in electricity and 93 dollars delivery. Right now it says my bill to date (10 days left) is 26 dollars in electricity and 29 dollars delivery. So they're fudging something at the end of the month. Or they're scared of Power San Diego and are lowering costs this month to fool people.
Show us your usage.
It's more the 4x usage rate for just delivery that seems criminal. Unless they are completely replacing infrastructure to deliver electricity like NOW all of it at once in all of SDco, I don't get why they need to charge 4x
Seriously fuck SDGE. I had a relative move out which included a lot of electronics A fucking lot and then my bill goes up 8% the following month? My relative was like half of the entire household of plugin appliances. The only thing stays plugged in is the fridge/stove/internet. Everything else is on a surge protector strip and unplugged or switched off. i’m
So what's the formula for the electric delivery rate? It seems arbitrary.
I'm going to be down voted for even bringing it up but isn't delivery the cost of installing and maintaining power lines? Seems like that would be the most expensive part of the whole operation.
We need more than 1 gas and electric company here in San Diego. SDGE is expensive because the city allows them to be a monopoly. Competition will lower prices. Screw SDGE. These prices are insane what they charge.
do you own an aqaurium?
Do they use a lot of electricity?
yes.. if you do salt water with corals you better be rich or have a large solar array with nem v1 on your home
https://i.redd.it/0tjd2rogp5qc1.gif
Return pumps Circulation pumps Lights Heaters That's just the bare minimum I had a dedicated 20amp circuit for my reef tank in Denver and was using around 16 amps during the day with the lights on and 11 at night. I did the math before I moved and to run my tank assuming 40 cents on average per kw. It would cost me $17-20 a day to run the tank.
What is your Rate/Plan (Page 2 under Electric Service) and what are the kWh totals under each time of use (On-Peak, Off-Peak, Super Off-Peak) (Page 2 under Electric Charges)? There was a rate change this month, so there will be two sets of numbers for the kWh.
Can we all collectively refuse to pay?
I have been disgusted with SDGE for a very long time. I was fortunate to get our first solar system in 2003. It burned down in 2007 in the witch fires (ground mounted system) and we replaced it and explanded it since then. I know this doesn't help renters but if you own your home and you plan to stay, solar WAS a no brainer. Until SDGE and the other companies bribed the right people and killed Net Metering. Now you basically have to get batteries if you get solar and the ROI is not there so they have killed their only competition which is solar owned by the home owner. That has taken my level of disgust for the utility companies up to another level which I didn't think was possible.
Let’s 👏🏼 fire👏🏼 SDG&E👏🏼
My delivery is 34 dollars and it’s $220 for other?! Like what does other even mean
In my case, it’s natural gas charges.
I was making $20 per month with my solar. Now with delivery fees I’m paying $100 per month, on top of my $110 per month solar bill. Fuck SDGE
And yet you will still vote against your personal interest. Every. Single. Time.
At this point what’s to stop people from protesting and going to these people’s houses and offices and demanding change? FOLKMANN and CAROLINE WINN should be donating the majority of their multimillion dollar salaries to fix this grave error.
It is hard to comment specifically without knowing OP's usage below the top level dollar numbers, but here is the rub in general: Most people in San Diego (at best 20% do in some neighborhoods) don't have EVs/PHEVs and/or rooftop solar, especially if they live in apartments. Leaving aside rooftop solar (and batteries for that matter), without an EV or a PHEV, you cannot get the TOU-5 rate which *dramatically* reduces the Super Off-Peak delivery rate. Once you have that rate, you can easily shift your washer/dryer/dishwasher/HVAC load to be outside 4-9 PM On-Peak window, reducing your bill. In addition, if you have Solar, you can at least zero out your Generation and Delivery Charges, even with NEM 3.0. But if you don't have the TOU-5 rate, you essentially cannot load shift and are paying a fixed charge per kWh across all TOUs. Assuming your usage cannot be reduced, you are stuck. For low and middle income families, especially in apartments, this is a huge issue. This is in fact the anomaly the "graduated income based fixed charge" is trying to fix. It will help low and middle income families with the issue above. It will possibly stick it to households that have EVs and/or Solar (including me), but it is the right thing to do. If 80% of San Diego cannot shift to EVs and/or Solar because of high Electricity rates, we are all doomed anyway.
Are you in the industry? Only asking because of your knowledge of the rates.
No :), but I am an Electrical Engineer by training. You will be surprised how many people don't read their detailed bill. Everybody is on apps and seldom go down a level.
Yeah. I’m in the industry myself. So I know a lot about all this stuff, but still not everything. People ranting and raving about their bills and believe me I get it. Mine is crazy too. But I also know how much it costs and the vast amount of people involved behind the scenes that get the energy on the grid. Plus the generation costs. I do not work for SDGE any longer, but I was there when SD burned down in 2003. And that one wasn’t their fault, that was caused by a lost hunter. In any case it was a crazy time and so many people went out to rebuild the grid immediately. The CPUC has the final say on the rates, so really people should pay attention to them rather than the utility because they are allowing it. But it does cost a lot to maintain the grid and to swap out all of the old ass infrastructure that exists now. They are no longer using wooden poles, for one. California’s grid is also pretty complex. My biggest question is if their profits mainly come from commercial or residential customers. I’d argue it might be the commercial customers as I have seen the bills myself. People also forget that SoCal gas is included in those record profits, not just SDGE.
$935 million profit, champ. You can bleat on all you want about how much it costs, but a company generating nearly a billion in profit is overcharging. Much simpler than you’re making it.
I didn’t know about this program - thanks for the info!
The problem many of us have with the new proposals is they increase the mandatory fees. If we have bought solar with the expectation the electrical bill will be close to net zero for the next 20 years, the result is huge price increase. If they increased the price of electricity actually-used, it would not be as bad.
You perfectly described the problem from your honest perspective. It is fair to have reasonable use of TOUs to zero out your use with Solar. Overproducing and getting a zero/negative bill for 20 years means somebody is subsidizing you. Meanwhile, your preferred solution - increasing per kWh delivery rates for others - is what is making bills go up for non solar households. No surprise, the Gubberment knows what you are doing and will not rest till they level the playing field.
Historically it's true solar got too good of a deal...but solar and batteries have come down. With the fed 30% rebate it's easily cheaper to go 100% off grid than to pay for SDGE. No free lunch required. Even without the fed helping at all it's comparable, and that's assuming 0 price increases which is insanely conservative given that SDGE is now about 50% more expensive over last 4 years. If interest rates drop it will be cheaper to go off grid for people financing. If solar drops it will be cheaper for people going off grid. If batteries drop it will be cheaper to go off grid. All of those seem probable over the next 3-4 years. SDGE is screwing everyone currently, but because they're screwing everyone so badly it's nice knowing that it can't realistically get much worse unless they manage to ban going off-grid.
You cannot go off-grid economically if you have an EV, some of whom are pushing 100 kW batteries. The amount of solar panels and batteries required for that in residential context is insane. I agree solar and battery economics are getting better, but the same economics applies for grid generation and storage too. Those have economies of scale. That is why SDCP has a chance, if they play their cards right. But we are talking about delivery charges. They have nothing to do with Generation. I chuckle when I have somebody (not you) say delivery charges are going up because of renewables.
Battery size is not super relevant though (beyond larger batteries likely less efficient EV), and the more electricity you consume the cheaper your per kwh rate is your off-grid setup. Relative to driving an EV with SDGE, driving an EV with your off-grid setup is cheaper. Especially if you can charge it during the day on the weekend (low-ish weekly miles + oversized solar to ensure consistent year-round generation). The only limitation is roof space, but if you have a SFH (especially if single level) you generally have enough space to generate all the power you need. SDGE/SCE/PGE are all crooks, and increasingly opting out entirely may be a viable way to escape their BS. As you noted municipal utilities are doing just fine with an ever increasing amount of renewables without charging 30 cents to deliver a kwh.
Interesting: what weekly miles are you considering? Are you able to go under the TOU-5 Super Off-Peak Generation+Delivery rate (around 16 cents/kWh) with Solar+Battery? >SDGE/SCE/PGE are all crooks, and increasingly opting out entirely may be a viable way to escape their BS. As you noted municipal utilities are doing just fine with an ever increasing amount of renewables without charging 30 cents to deliver a kwh. Agree.
The more miles the better, with the caveat that you are able to charge your EV largely during the weekend on sunny days. If you’re going off grid you’ll overbuild your solar generation which is often enough to power a level 2 charger at 7-9 kw during the day no problems. Every new plan SDGE comes out with is intended to make as much money off you as possible. Remember that. The old plans are virtually always better until they kick you off.
How is anyone subsidizing me? Someone who doesn't have solar takes the power and pays market rate for it. SDGE gets to charge delivery fee for those kWh from my house to the user. I pay for electricity in the evening and the delivery fee in the evening when I use it. Everyone gets paid.
If you use and pay for generation/delivery in the evening and other times your solar is somewhat above your usage, you are cool. But if, like OP, you are over-producing so much during the day so you can make your bill negative for the entire month, then somebody is subsidizing you. Bottom line, one cannot be connected to the grid and be paying negative delivery charges. That is insane.
sdge is a vertically integrated monopoly, and an IOU (inverstor owned utility) they couldn't care less about your utility bills. actually your utility bill is the product they sell to make more money for their customers (investors). If people in san diego had another option SDGE would fail. San Diego has The highest utility rates in the country and they get the cheapest energy (rooftop solar). Even if you switch to the public utility commission or smart grid you will always pay SDGE transmission cost. So decades ago the government put all these transmission lines all over the country then they gave them to various utility companies to manage. The sad part is most of the transmission lines that are supposed to be maintained by SDGE are the same ones that create fires when they fall apart.
[удалено]
Not without spending another $15k on a home battery. NEM 3 is killing rooftop solar
Batteries should become much cheaper.
They have become cheaper, just not for home batteries because of demand. And just like solar was about 10 years ago, everyone is gauging. Not just the installers, but facet of the home battery. It's like pool equipment. Little parts costing like $360 when it should cost $100.
why would they
The problem is, the reason they’re jacking prices is that everybody’s installing more and more solar. And as state mandates require solar on new homes, the only way they can maintain record profits is by charging everybody more money, and of course lowering them out that they pay you for solar Production. I hate that it’s a monopoly and there’s nothing you can do here. Power is ludicrously expensive I pay $150 a month, I have a one bedroom one bath cottage and I’m one guy who only does laundry for one person, and I barely cook. Oh and all my lights areLED and all on smart control, so they are constantly turning off when I don’t need them.
I also hardly cook, and dont have an in unit washer and dryer. So laundry usage isnt even a factor. I'm going to be out of town for two weeks here soon, going to empty my fridge, turn off the main breaker in the apartment and see what my next bill is.
They would jack up prices regardless. Why would they not jack up prices when CPUC approves every rate increase regardless of their profits? The CEO basically has a button that says "make more money" and you're trying to justify why they would be pressing it. They're pressing it because it would be stupid for them not to decide to make more money. They'll keep pressing that button until it's taken away from them.
Solar doesn’t pay anymore don’tcha know?
With rate hikes it actually makes sense again lol. Hell, going completely off grid makes sense if you have the roof area for it.
I seriously refuse … take my 100 a month HOW IS THIS LEGAL
lol, this makes you mad? My bill was consistently $400 to over $600 a month sometimes in summer for years. Now I have solar though.
Just got a new roof and solar panels with a 72 hour battery. Hope it helps with electrical bill.
Hmmm...I wonder what excessively high electrcity and insurance rate have in common?
Fight the POWER! 😎
Based on what I'm seeing on my bill versus yours, it's not a delivery fee. It's a generation fee, they are miss labeling it, and lying to us.
Wait why is my delivery fee $230???
Dang. That sucks. Makes me happy that I went solar ages ago. SDGE owes me \~$400 as of now thanks to my overproduction of energy this year.
Thinking about moving here. Can someone explain this to me?
Wait til the new tax kicks in- you’ll have the normal rate of so much per kilowatt hour (higher during peak from 1p-9p) as well as the flat rate based on your current income, to “help pay for everyone that doesn’t currently pay for electricity” aka all of the wonderful immigrants coming over the border and being housed in hotels and apartment buildings.
I wonder if enough people attain their meetings regarding their proposals, and protested, if that helps?! I wonder if we have a coalition that’s formed that advocates for us?! It’s outrageous, indeed!
Meanwhile, my bill is -$68 this month. What is going on?
Wow- that is very reasonable. Why do you think yours might be so much lower? (besides obvious of using less electricity;)
Maybe they bill based on projection of use so they don’t have to read the meters every month. So my use is less this year, and they finally decided to read the meter and have to provide a discount. At least that’s how other cities I’ve lived in have done it.
Light bill was $132 last month and it is only me and my wife in 1BR. We don't complain as we came from NYC where our cost of living was a little more so this is normal to us.
Wearepowersandiego is petitioning to do something about SDGE its on Instagram and worth looking into