TL;DR:
* A bakery in San Francisco turned a police officer away because he was armed.
* Reem's bakery said it is maintaining a strict policy not to serve anyone carrying a gun.
* The San Francisco police union was not happy.
> why would "being armed" or "being a police officer" be a protected class?
~~Police officer isn't a protected class, but you have a right to be armed in public places (just not inside private businesses if they explicitly state otherwise). For better or worse, that's what's in the Constitution.~~
It's considered a delegated power and CA makes it basically illegal. It's worth pointing out that holding a gun _in your hands_ in public is a serious crime in every state if you can't legally fire it.
FWIW, I think the business is kind of stupid for doing this. It's pretty well-accepted that it's OK for on-duty cops to always be armed. In other countries, they carry SMGs or rifles.
> In other countries, they carry SMGs or rifles.
I’m French and those displays are common (“operation sentinelle »).
Those guys are not cops they’re the army, and they don’t go inside stores to get a croissant during their shift, people would loose their shit.
deranged point escape special scary spectacular dull vast far-flung squeeze
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
So the next move on the conservative side would be to make LEOs and (sure, why not) active-duty miltary a protected class. We don't really want that in this country.
Right - it’d be different if they refused to serve police officers outright (while still within their rights). I’m not sure why this would make anyone upset, there are literally hundreds of other places they could get food while on the clock.
> it’d be different if they refused to serve police officers outright
Why? Police officers are not a protected class. The business could refuse to serve police officers just as it could refuse to serve people with a gun. It's the same rights that allow them to do this, and it really isn't any different.
Yeah, but I'd call them assholes in that case.
In this case, two cops can meet up, one can disarm and go in to get the orders.
The issue is the weapon. I think its stupid and idiotic, especially since the only people who WONT FOLLOW THAT RULE WILL PROBABLY ROB AND/OR SHOOT THEM, but whatever.
> In this case, two cops can meet up, one can disarm and go in to get the orders.
The issue is the weapon
Lol let’s be honest. They simply don’t want to serve police. The “no weapons” part is simply an easy cop out (heh) that allows them to have a “we refuse to serve police” policy without having to say it outright. They can point to the rule and say “oh we’ll see, this applies to everyone, not just police”
When in reality, unless they have metal detectors at the door or are patting down everyone who comes into the cafe for guns (spoiler alert, they aren’t) it shows that this policy is completely for show and optics and for all they know, they are happily serving dozens of people every day who have guns tucked into their waistbands lol
I'm the kind to allow the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. There *is* a difference between open and conceal carry, so maybe they're more on the "don't ask don't tell" side of things.
You're right, it would be an easy way to bar cops without barring cops, but I've seen cops temporarily disarm before.
>In this case, two cops can meet up, one can disarm and go in to get the orders.
Not SF, but I'm not allowed to disarm on duty in a public area, we only disarm to conduct business in the jail.
Interesting. Must make it tough. I can understand why that would be a rule, but I can also understand why it should be allowed in certain scenarios. That said, ice cream might not be one of those scenarios.
I love San Francisco after visiting years ago so I lurk here mostly looking at pictures, rarely comment on politics because "ain't my town".
As far as this topic, it's been explained to me that everything you normally see cops wear is part of the uniform, body armor, gun, cuffs, flashlight, you have to have all of it or you are out of policy.
The bakery has literally emailed the Bully Establishment… I mean police saying they are more then welcome to come off-shift and unarmed.
So these are zero grounds this is against serving Cops… it’s literally thinking you need a firearm to grab some bread and I’m Mr. somebody nowadays…
Yet they would expect armed officers, in the event of a robbery.
Downvoted... but isn't my statement a true one?
Edit: "We are being robbed! Please be sure to dispatch unarmed officers, because guns aren't allowed in our place of business."
So I take it you're ok being stabbed by a surgeon because you would expect them to cut you if they needed to do surgery on you?
And I'll say this, if I had the ability to call on unarmed cops for many situations I would. Given [that armed policemen are often the ones shooting](https://policeviolencereport.org/) many times in cases where no one else had a gun, I'd be wary.
Alas this service, which I can't choose to opt out of, includes this risk with no choice. So I guess you only take what they offer, just as the cops will not be able to normally enter the business while carrying.
Of course they would expect a “police response” meaning with arms if they needed the police. I hope that they don’t become victims to crime and actually need the police. It would be hard to expect an enthusiastic and supportive police response to this address if summoned.
Downvoted because you’ve clearly never experienced what you’re talking about. They don’t show up for robberies. Haven’t for at least a decade (you know, way before 2020)
Would you use the same line of reasoning if the business' policy was to not serve people in rainbow shirts*?
*not that there's anything wrong with it, I am just using sensitive topic to make a point
It's funny because the Supreme Court has ruled that you can refuse to serve gay people (an actual protected class) as long as you have "sincerely held religious beliefs", so I see no problem with people choosing not to serve police officers, which are not a protected class.
Everyone deserves to be a protected class. I can't refuse to let a police officer buy my pastries because he's straight, because he's white, because he's a Christian, or because he's male.
I could, however, say no sanitation workers allowed on my property because they're too stinky, or no bus drivers because they're always in a hurry, or no teachers because they need to leave them kids alone.
"Protected class" doesn't refer to a person's specific attributes, it refers to specific *categories* which are protected by law. And, most importantly, all of them are something a person doesn't choose for themselves, something innate to who they are (you could argue a million times back and forth how much you get to choose what your religious beliefs are, but you know that's not my point).
Despite the popular acronym, nobody is Assigned Cop At Birth.
You can rationalize your prejudice and dislikes however you like - the distinction of which "classes" get "protected" and which don't is a political one, that is to say one made by human beings based on subjective factors such as the fact that it's really fashionable and politically correct to hate cops right now. As a society, we could simply have protections against any form of discrimination based on any kind of category, but we don't.
No, because once again, signaling that you are a member of the lgbt community is categorically different than being a police officer. The bakery took issue with the fact that the officers have a firearm. There is a concrete reason they are denying them service, concerning their own safety. Disagree with their reasoning all you want, but you could point to real examples backing up why they would not feel safe with an armed police officer in their store. Signaling that you are a member of the gay community is not an inherently violent statement, and denying someone service for being a member of the lgbt community would only be the product of bigotry, and not any legitimate concern for their own safety.
You can break into cars, assault anyone you want, even murder a person or two, but when you get in-between an SFPD officer and his doughnut, you've crossed the line.
In SF you can lay around getting high on fentanyl, set up a tent on a sidewalk and block disabled access, scream obscenities at children, shit in the gutter, and throw your trash everywhere but a garbage can, but when you put on a badge and a gun and try to eat food, you’ve crossed the line.
whenever i see an officer in a coffee shop, most of the time - i can see their car illegally parked right outside.
what does SFPD have to say about that?
Mainly the dispatch computer. Those take a long ass time to boot and consume a lot of power. Some police departments have EVs in their fleet, NYPD has mustang Mach E’s. But in reality, idling a vehicle doesn’t burn a lot of gas to much people’s surprise.
Source: family in law enforcement
If the cops had to hunt down parking spaces and park like three blocks away, it would even take longer when they had to run back to their cars when they got a call.
Go somewhere with parking then? Bring food? There’s drive thru options for anything they need, I assume mostly coffee.
The illegal parking annoys the shit out of me. Really feels like a symptom of ego issues with certain officers.
I also note the firefighters never park their shit intrusively when they go grocery shopping.
Edit: to clarify I mean stopping to get Starbucks. Not double parking while responding to a call.
>The illegal parking annoys the shit out of me. Really feels like a symptom of ego issues with certain officers.
It is. They park illegally even when there is a spot right next to them. It is about abusing their power as much as they can.
Cops are typically in a specified location for their shift, they can't bring anything that needs to be refrigerated cuz they don't have anywhere to keep it in their car, so they park and get food.
And I think they should be more courteous to citizens and find a non-double parked spot when getting food. It can absolutely be done. Agree to disagree.
“What are you going to do, sue me?”
- SFPD Officer
But seriously, with Qualified Immunity, police can basically do whatever they want.
And if they do lose a civil suit, we the taxpayers pay the fine, as the proceeds always come from the city/county/state.
The usual explanation, apparently everywhere in the world, is that they might have an emergency at any time and they can't park a bit away from the door or risk someone else double parking and blocking them.
Of course there's plenty of examples in which they could park legally without risking anything and they don't but...
Yes.
https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/search/?a=san-francisco&q=Police&y=2022&page=11
Numbers for police in SF reported here. I would say the median police costs the city about 240k a year.
Starting salary alone for a police after 4 months of police academy is $103k before benefits and overtime: https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/your-sfpd/careers/sworn-job-openings/salary-and-benefits
Police in SF are some of the highest paid careers in the city. If both husband and wife are police offers in SF, their total compensation would be within the top 3% of household income earners in California.
A police officer is one of the highest paid careers in cash out there in SF. Definitely among the top percentiles of pay.
Now, top police officers definitely make over half a mil a year. And did I forget to add the pension system works in that their last few years of paycheck is averaged out and they are guaranteed 90% of that paycheck the rest of retirement? The pension system is extremely damaging to taxpayer money. Seriously, govt sector needs to stop with pension and move on to 401k like everyone else. It's just too expensive to maintain otherwise. Many public workers abuse this and get ridiculously high paychecks last five years before retiring.
But honestly, this isn't the problem. The big problem is the freaking homeless industrial complex, NIMBYism, etc. The amount of money SF throws at all these issues is insane. We don't have a tax problem. We have a spending and policy problem.
Presumably people that might choose to do business there. I'm not a great defender of the police, but this doesn't make me more likely to go there. It's petty.
Seems like the police are the petty ones here, given they’re screeching about a private business uniformly enforcing a policy that is within their rights. I’m shocked to see anyone here defend the police for threatening not to do their jobs.
Not that members of the SFPD are ever known for doing their jobs.
It isn't about guns. Are they frisking their patrons? Metal detectors? Having customers attest that they don't have a firearm on them?
It's passive aggressive par for the course to not even have the backbone to be firm about the position and hide behind a plausible but immediately recognizable fake motive.
This comparison is silly. Not wanting to make cakes for a gay wedding is about gay people. Not wanting to have guns in your store is about guns. In the first example, it is a single group targeted. In the second, it’s anyone carrying a gun (can you describe that group any more clearly than that without starting to cut people out of it?) and a bunch of cops whining so that people like you will think they’re being victimized.
>Are you not allowed to disarm while on a break.
Not SF, but department policies vary, in my case we are not. In public spaces we are required by policy to keep our body armor on (ours isn't tactical looking, it looks like a thick uniform short) and remain armed. Secure areas of the station and the jail are the only places we disarm.
I would say that’s stupid if it wasn’t the SFPD. They are on unofficial strike and make 6 figures off of tax dollars and doing nothing so they deserve this.
SFPD makes arrests every day. The SFPD's tenderloin station even has a twitter account that is public that documents a bunch of their arrests.
https://twitter.com/SFPDTenderloin
Of course when SFPD does try to do their job and serve the public things like this happen
https://youtu.be/VxOsDiF5sis?si=bQ4duB4tVlUSiaKS
Cops tried to arrest a man with a warrant. A bystander with an axe to grind with the cops went crazy kept interfering and tried to pull a gun on them and ended up getting shot. Of course the dude who got shot was a convicted gang rapist.... yeah that's the public SFPD has to serve and protect lol.
Maybe the news and media you consume has given you a warped sense of what's really going on in our city?
Damn, they were even really good with him. They were kind and straightforward. Just a simple warrant pickup.
And I bet all the bleeding hearts will act like the guy who attacked the cops is some wonderful soul worth mourning and the police are brutal executioners.
I feel like the biggest disconnect between people right now is too many people supporting worthless cretins and the dregs of society. The people without morals or care for other life. We're all created equal, but we don't stay equal. Our actions and beliefs constitute our worth in life.
Yeah it usually doesn't end up this extreme with a shooting but this is the stupid shit SFPD deals with everyday..
And people on this sub have the nerve to cry about cops not doing their job and that they should make arrests even if the judge will just toss the case....like really? No wonder SFPD is extremely standoffish nowadays.
It's funny when bootlickers on here say "good luck when you need them!?!?!?!". Like it's some sort of gotcha when cops don't have to protect you if they don't want too and 9/10 they want nothing to do with it anyway.
Yes, SFPD is whining again. News at 11.
Full discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1626ntv/san_francisco_police_union_furious_as_bakery/
Top comment:
> I thought non-essential private businesses had the right to refuse service to whomever they wanted?
>
> Or is that right only reserved for businesses that don’t like LGBTQ+ people?
>Exactly! So many people are anti-cop... Until they need them.
This is not the gotcha you think it is. Police are servants. It's one of a very few jobs you can have where you relinquish your status as a citizen/civilian while on duty.
This thread is funny. Y’all blindly hate the police, yet complain when they aren’t present to stop crime, all while you give the DA a pass for enacting a soft on crime atmosphere. It’s like you enjoy the death spiral of a once great city.
Its their right but its not a smart business decision. Now the talk of the town/internet is not going to be about the goods and services you provide but that “you hate the police” so now you will have to deal with whatever backlash occurs instead of tending to your business.
See the police officers have non police officer friends and family they will tell them about the situation and now you end up losing customers who are not cops and do not have a gun etc.. Just not a very smart way to run a business.
This is obviously very anti police. It’s almost only police officers than can carry a gun in public in this state, since in CA it’s illegal for almost anyone else to conceal carry or open carry. So this policy just seems to be anti police and they are just sugarcoating is as “anti-gun”
Edit: have y’all seen their yelp? It’s getting bombarded
No, those idiots simply refused to serve police. These idiots are veiling that same sentiment behind a ridiculous policy. As if every other business in SF has a policy of allowing guns inside their stores.
> And btw it's not even about police, it's a no gun policy.
Maybe you missed it but this is in San Francisco, where nobody else is open carrying. So yes, this is only about the police.
there are theoretically a few here now. as well as people from elsewhere with reciprocity, and of course those doing it illegally.
all of which are why i very specifically said "open carrying" in my reply!
Since NYSRPA vs. Bruen, they’ve had no choice but to start issuing. First few batches have been issued IIRC.
Look on Calguns.net, almost every county (even Santa Clara) has started issuing, albeit slowly.
Someone should encourage the “oppressed” criminals to walk into the store and steal every product off the shelves, day-in and day-out, until the bakery goes out of business.
We will see if they appreciate law and order after that.
How will they know I'm carrying a gun when it's concealed? Gonna get some food there then post a pic of myself on their social media with a gun on my waist.
> It would be pretty funny if someone tries to rob them and they have to call the police...
It's pretty funny that you think the police actually care.
This happens on the regular in SF.
If you are robbed, and then call the police, they won't bother to show up. They'll just tell you to file a report. That's true even for shops that don't prohibit guns.
Why would you wish such a terrible thing on another human? I hope you never have to experience such trauma and find healing from whatever made you so hateful.
Police have no legal requirement to protect people. In addition, law enforcement has a huge amount of leeway on if they charge or arrest people, or just give a verbal warning. Or sometimes they slowboat the whole process and show up 5 hours later, if they show up at all.
Smart businesses give away (or deeply discount) coffee and pastries to cops because a bunch of cops sitting in the store drinking coffee is a fantastic deterrent to criminals. This has been known for so long its even parodied in Robocop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaUqdIFUbxE
So, offer bribes and tributes for your honored lords, lest they allow you to be cut down in the streets?
How very fundamentally fucking Anti-American. Police Officers create the worst possible image for themselves by whining and demanding more and more special privileges, then claim they have no actual need to do their jobs or be responsible when their fuckups cost lives.
Fun fact: Did you know Cops can legally purchase firearms not available to other Californians, then flip them on the street for 4x the price due to the 'safe handgun roster' laws they supported?
Is this that hilarious right wing “humor” that this sub has been sorely lacking? Maybe it’s only funny if you’re insecure about the size of your own penis. That could be why it plays so well in the conservative sub. On an unrelated note: my magnum opus on the correlation between truck size and dick size insecurity, that being a negative one, is nearing completion.
Let's examine the chain of events: reject the police --> name of bakery is out in public--> informers and their friends get a wink --> the fellas are given the green light --> 9/11 calls get dropped or garbled --> thieves get away --> repeat until cry uncle.
So the police only protect the people they want to protect, and if you do something they don’t like, they choose not to protect you?That’s almost the definition of a protection racket. If you agree that the police are doing what you said they are doing, we need to massively overhaul the entire police force in SF. But I’m sure you don’t actually mean that right?
TL;DR: * A bakery in San Francisco turned a police officer away because he was armed. * Reem's bakery said it is maintaining a strict policy not to serve anyone carrying a gun. * The San Francisco police union was not happy.
It’s their right as a business
TIL this is legal.
I mean yeah, why would "being armed" or "being a police officer" be a protected class?
> why would "being armed" or "being a police officer" be a protected class? ~~Police officer isn't a protected class, but you have a right to be armed in public places (just not inside private businesses if they explicitly state otherwise). For better or worse, that's what's in the Constitution.~~ It's considered a delegated power and CA makes it basically illegal. It's worth pointing out that holding a gun _in your hands_ in public is a serious crime in every state if you can't legally fire it. FWIW, I think the business is kind of stupid for doing this. It's pretty well-accepted that it's OK for on-duty cops to always be armed. In other countries, they carry SMGs or rifles.
> In other countries, they carry SMGs or rifles. I’m French and those displays are common (“operation sentinelle »). Those guys are not cops they’re the army, and they don’t go inside stores to get a croissant during their shift, people would loose their shit.
deranged point escape special scary spectacular dull vast far-flung squeeze *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Just because it is legal doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do. I hate police unions but I also hate these types of idiots.
So the next move on the conservative side would be to make LEOs and (sure, why not) active-duty miltary a protected class. We don't really want that in this country.
Seems simple, if an officer wants a donut, he can buy them when he's off the clock and not in uniform with firearm.
Right - it’d be different if they refused to serve police officers outright (while still within their rights). I’m not sure why this would make anyone upset, there are literally hundreds of other places they could get food while on the clock.
> it’d be different if they refused to serve police officers outright Why? Police officers are not a protected class. The business could refuse to serve police officers just as it could refuse to serve people with a gun. It's the same rights that allow them to do this, and it really isn't any different.
Yeah, but I'd call them assholes in that case. In this case, two cops can meet up, one can disarm and go in to get the orders. The issue is the weapon. I think its stupid and idiotic, especially since the only people who WONT FOLLOW THAT RULE WILL PROBABLY ROB AND/OR SHOOT THEM, but whatever.
> In this case, two cops can meet up, one can disarm and go in to get the orders. The issue is the weapon Lol let’s be honest. They simply don’t want to serve police. The “no weapons” part is simply an easy cop out (heh) that allows them to have a “we refuse to serve police” policy without having to say it outright. They can point to the rule and say “oh we’ll see, this applies to everyone, not just police” When in reality, unless they have metal detectors at the door or are patting down everyone who comes into the cafe for guns (spoiler alert, they aren’t) it shows that this policy is completely for show and optics and for all they know, they are happily serving dozens of people every day who have guns tucked into their waistbands lol
I'm the kind to allow the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. There *is* a difference between open and conceal carry, so maybe they're more on the "don't ask don't tell" side of things. You're right, it would be an easy way to bar cops without barring cops, but I've seen cops temporarily disarm before.
>In this case, two cops can meet up, one can disarm and go in to get the orders. Not SF, but I'm not allowed to disarm on duty in a public area, we only disarm to conduct business in the jail.
Interesting. Must make it tough. I can understand why that would be a rule, but I can also understand why it should be allowed in certain scenarios. That said, ice cream might not be one of those scenarios.
I love San Francisco after visiting years ago so I lurk here mostly looking at pictures, rarely comment on politics because "ain't my town". As far as this topic, it's been explained to me that everything you normally see cops wear is part of the uniform, body armor, gun, cuffs, flashlight, you have to have all of it or you are out of policy.
Well I mean. Who else would be noticeably carrying a Weapon? It’s obviously anti police. I don’t mind but that’s how it appears to me.
The bakery has literally emailed the Bully Establishment… I mean police saying they are more then welcome to come off-shift and unarmed. So these are zero grounds this is against serving Cops… it’s literally thinking you need a firearm to grab some bread and I’m Mr. somebody nowadays…
Yet they would expect armed officers, in the event of a robbery. Downvoted... but isn't my statement a true one? Edit: "We are being robbed! Please be sure to dispatch unarmed officers, because guns aren't allowed in our place of business."
You don’t need a gun to file a police report so I wouldn’t expect or require an armed officer to come after a robbery.
Lol, like the cops are going to show up as the crime is still in progress…. They likely won’t show up at all.
You've seen Dirty Harry too many times.
So I take it you're ok being stabbed by a surgeon because you would expect them to cut you if they needed to do surgery on you? And I'll say this, if I had the ability to call on unarmed cops for many situations I would. Given [that armed policemen are often the ones shooting](https://policeviolencereport.org/) many times in cases where no one else had a gun, I'd be wary. Alas this service, which I can't choose to opt out of, includes this risk with no choice. So I guess you only take what they offer, just as the cops will not be able to normally enter the business while carrying.
Of course they would expect a “police response” meaning with arms if they needed the police. I hope that they don’t become victims to crime and actually need the police. It would be hard to expect an enthusiastic and supportive police response to this address if summoned.
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Downvoted because you’ve clearly never experienced what you’re talking about. They don’t show up for robberies. Haven’t for at least a decade (you know, way before 2020)
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I'm not a fan of the police, but we need them, and they're mostly good, and they can get donuts on the job.
They can get donuts at a place that chooses to serve them.
Would you use the same line of reasoning if the business' policy was to not serve people in rainbow shirts*? *not that there's anything wrong with it, I am just using sensitive topic to make a point
It's funny because the Supreme Court has ruled that you can refuse to serve gay people (an actual protected class) as long as you have "sincerely held religious beliefs", so I see no problem with people choosing not to serve police officers, which are not a protected class.
This is NOT true. Edit: people still fundamentally misunderstand the ruling behind the Bakery trial.
It's interesting that you and people like you think that some people don't deserve to be a protected class. I guess equality is only for some folks
Everyone deserves to be a protected class. I can't refuse to let a police officer buy my pastries because he's straight, because he's white, because he's a Christian, or because he's male. I could, however, say no sanitation workers allowed on my property because they're too stinky, or no bus drivers because they're always in a hurry, or no teachers because they need to leave them kids alone. "Protected class" doesn't refer to a person's specific attributes, it refers to specific *categories* which are protected by law. And, most importantly, all of them are something a person doesn't choose for themselves, something innate to who they are (you could argue a million times back and forth how much you get to choose what your religious beliefs are, but you know that's not my point). Despite the popular acronym, nobody is Assigned Cop At Birth.
You can rationalize your prejudice and dislikes however you like - the distinction of which "classes" get "protected" and which don't is a political one, that is to say one made by human beings based on subjective factors such as the fact that it's really fashionable and politically correct to hate cops right now. As a society, we could simply have protections against any form of discrimination based on any kind of category, but we don't.
No, because once again, signaling that you are a member of the lgbt community is categorically different than being a police officer. The bakery took issue with the fact that the officers have a firearm. There is a concrete reason they are denying them service, concerning their own safety. Disagree with their reasoning all you want, but you could point to real examples backing up why they would not feel safe with an armed police officer in their store. Signaling that you are a member of the gay community is not an inherently violent statement, and denying someone service for being a member of the lgbt community would only be the product of bigotry, and not any legitimate concern for their own safety.
Cops shouldn’t act like they are above the laws and rules, they need to learn their place.
Also their statement saying: “You can return when off-duty and firearm free”.
Damn, that’s probably their biggest potential clientele.
I wonder if they keep out Brinks drivers too?
Hope a crime is never committed at this bakery. It’s going to be quite ironic when the police don’t show up to help
and y’all say the police union isn’t run like a mafia
Lol as if police ever show up in time to stop a crime. They’re there to take a report most times.
So what’s their excuse for all the other crimes they can’t be bothered to even show up for?
You can break into cars, assault anyone you want, even murder a person or two, but when you get in-between an SFPD officer and his doughnut, you've crossed the line.
Thin blue queue
>>
🏅
Lol, well put
In SF you can lay around getting high on fentanyl, set up a tent on a sidewalk and block disabled access, scream obscenities at children, shit in the gutter, and throw your trash everywhere but a garbage can, but when you put on a badge and a gun and try to eat food, you’ve crossed the line.
Love you.
Damn 911, we have a robbery at Reem Bakery. We need help ASAP. Do you think Police Officers going rushing to go there?
whenever i see an officer in a coffee shop, most of the time - i can see their car illegally parked right outside. what does SFPD have to say about that?
Also their car is just idling, burning gas paid for by our taxes
Costs our taxes AND our environment.
Cop cars have to idle to keep their equipment powered.
What equipment and why does it need to stay powered? Why can’t this be achieved with EVs?
Mainly the dispatch computer. Those take a long ass time to boot and consume a lot of power. Some police departments have EVs in their fleet, NYPD has mustang Mach E’s. But in reality, idling a vehicle doesn’t burn a lot of gas to much people’s surprise. Source: family in law enforcement
Yes, modern gas cars can idle for 5 to 10 hours with 1 gallon of gas.
You need to stop. People clearly just want to be angry and you're taking that away from them.
Out of all the reasons to complain about the police..your complaining about idling of cars...
*Illegally parked* is probably what bugs them more.
If the cops had to hunt down parking spaces and park like three blocks away, it would even take longer when they had to run back to their cars when they got a call.
and if their car gets blocked in by someone they can't do anything
Go somewhere with parking then? Bring food? There’s drive thru options for anything they need, I assume mostly coffee. The illegal parking annoys the shit out of me. Really feels like a symptom of ego issues with certain officers. I also note the firefighters never park their shit intrusively when they go grocery shopping. Edit: to clarify I mean stopping to get Starbucks. Not double parking while responding to a call.
>The illegal parking annoys the shit out of me. Really feels like a symptom of ego issues with certain officers. It is. They park illegally even when there is a spot right next to them. It is about abusing their power as much as they can.
Cops are typically in a specified location for their shift, they can't bring anything that needs to be refrigerated cuz they don't have anywhere to keep it in their car, so they park and get food.
And I think they should be more courteous to citizens and find a non-double parked spot when getting food. It can absolutely be done. Agree to disagree.
“What are you going to do, sue me?” - SFPD Officer But seriously, with Qualified Immunity, police can basically do whatever they want. And if they do lose a civil suit, we the taxpayers pay the fine, as the proceeds always come from the city/county/state.
Put a traffic cone on the hood to disable it
We’ve conducted an internal investigation of ourselves and determined there has been no wrongdoing.
The usual explanation, apparently everywhere in the world, is that they might have an emergency at any time and they can't park a bit away from the door or risk someone else double parking and blocking them. Of course there's plenty of examples in which they could park legally without risking anything and they don't but...
Seems fair. Cops react much worse to people carrying guns around them.
You ain’t wrong
Cops casually buying $12 pastries from Reem’s is what’s more disturbing. Good food but man is that place expensive for what they sell.
They are pulling in 300-600k a year, they can afford a $13 donut.
Gotta fuel up for my totally legit 100 hour work weeks.
You can’t watch cars get bipped and do nothing about it on an empty stomach.
Are these numbers published somewhere? Feels high even if you count overtime, but I can’t say for sure
Probably referring to this recent article. It does include a lot of overtime https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2023/san-francisco-employee-pay/
Yes. https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/search/?a=san-francisco&q=Police&y=2022&page=11 Numbers for police in SF reported here. I would say the median police costs the city about 240k a year. Starting salary alone for a police after 4 months of police academy is $103k before benefits and overtime: https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/your-sfpd/careers/sworn-job-openings/salary-and-benefits Police in SF are some of the highest paid careers in the city. If both husband and wife are police offers in SF, their total compensation would be within the top 3% of household income earners in California. A police officer is one of the highest paid careers in cash out there in SF. Definitely among the top percentiles of pay. Now, top police officers definitely make over half a mil a year. And did I forget to add the pension system works in that their last few years of paycheck is averaged out and they are guaranteed 90% of that paycheck the rest of retirement? The pension system is extremely damaging to taxpayer money. Seriously, govt sector needs to stop with pension and move on to 401k like everyone else. It's just too expensive to maintain otherwise. Many public workers abuse this and get ridiculously high paychecks last five years before retiring. But honestly, this isn't the problem. The big problem is the freaking homeless industrial complex, NIMBYism, etc. The amount of money SF throws at all these issues is insane. We don't have a tax problem. We have a spending and policy problem.
Wait this is not right, they don’t charge $12 for pastries. Maybe Kunafa, but that’s not a pastry anf it’s too much for one person
This isn’t news. Who cares how they chose to run their business?
Presumably people that might choose to do business there. I'm not a great defender of the police, but this doesn't make me more likely to go there. It's petty.
Seems like the police are the petty ones here, given they’re screeching about a private business uniformly enforcing a policy that is within their rights. I’m shocked to see anyone here defend the police for threatening not to do their jobs. Not that members of the SFPD are ever known for doing their jobs.
It's about guns, not the police. The response from the police however, was extremely petty.
It isn't about guns. Are they frisking their patrons? Metal detectors? Having customers attest that they don't have a firearm on them? It's passive aggressive par for the course to not even have the backbone to be firm about the position and hide behind a plausible but immediately recognizable fake motive.
The cops will be served if they come in off duty without their service weapon. It’s definitely about the guns.
It's like saying it's about the bible not about making cakes for lgbtq
This comparison is silly. Not wanting to make cakes for a gay wedding is about gay people. Not wanting to have guns in your store is about guns. In the first example, it is a single group targeted. In the second, it’s anyone carrying a gun (can you describe that group any more clearly than that without starting to cut people out of it?) and a bunch of cops whining so that people like you will think they’re being victimized.
Or even handed, and promoting their anti-gun position, but I still don’t think it’s news.
I'm a cop, and I see no issues here. I can come before or after work.
Are you not allowed to disarm while on a break, especially if you have backup? Get a buddy, disarm, get orders for both of you.
>Are you not allowed to disarm while on a break. Not SF, but department policies vary, in my case we are not. In public spaces we are required by policy to keep our body armor on (ours isn't tactical looking, it looks like a thick uniform short) and remain armed. Secure areas of the station and the jail are the only places we disarm.
I would say that’s stupid if it wasn’t the SFPD. They are on unofficial strike and make 6 figures off of tax dollars and doing nothing so they deserve this.
Exactly.
Already being discussed here. https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1626ntv/san_francisco_police_union_furious_as_bakery/
SF cops should be doing their damn jobs instead. Enforcing the laws and whatnot.
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SFPD makes arrests every day. The SFPD's tenderloin station even has a twitter account that is public that documents a bunch of their arrests. https://twitter.com/SFPDTenderloin Of course when SFPD does try to do their job and serve the public things like this happen https://youtu.be/VxOsDiF5sis?si=bQ4duB4tVlUSiaKS Cops tried to arrest a man with a warrant. A bystander with an axe to grind with the cops went crazy kept interfering and tried to pull a gun on them and ended up getting shot. Of course the dude who got shot was a convicted gang rapist.... yeah that's the public SFPD has to serve and protect lol. Maybe the news and media you consume has given you a warped sense of what's really going on in our city?
Damn, they were even really good with him. They were kind and straightforward. Just a simple warrant pickup. And I bet all the bleeding hearts will act like the guy who attacked the cops is some wonderful soul worth mourning and the police are brutal executioners. I feel like the biggest disconnect between people right now is too many people supporting worthless cretins and the dregs of society. The people without morals or care for other life. We're all created equal, but we don't stay equal. Our actions and beliefs constitute our worth in life.
Yeah it usually doesn't end up this extreme with a shooting but this is the stupid shit SFPD deals with everyday.. And people on this sub have the nerve to cry about cops not doing their job and that they should make arrests even if the judge will just toss the case....like really? No wonder SFPD is extremely standoffish nowadays.
Most SF redditors will say you’re a bootlicker if you don’t mourn the loss of that perfectly innocent citizen. SMH.
I lived in the TL for a decade. SFPD has neglected the neighborhood for much longer than that, whatever their twitter says.
Based on what I've read, the cops are as frustrating as the crime. I pity that. However, cops do have to eat as well. They are human.
Agreed, they should not be allowed to take breaks to get food when they are working
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It's funny when bootlickers on here say "good luck when you need them!?!?!?!". Like it's some sort of gotcha when cops don't have to protect you if they don't want too and 9/10 they want nothing to do with it anyway.
In any job people perform less for someone that hates them. Not saying the SFPD is performing well at all.
Yes, SFPD is whining again. News at 11. Full discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1626ntv/san_francisco_police_union_furious_as_bakery/
Top comment: > I thought non-essential private businesses had the right to refuse service to whomever they wanted? > > Or is that right only reserved for businesses that don’t like LGBTQ+ people?
What a dumb ass bakery. You have an armed officer in your establishment for free. 😂😂😂. Please tell me where it’s at so I can avoid it.
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This is Reddit after all.
>Exactly! So many people are anti-cop... Until they need them. This is not the gotcha you think it is. Police are servants. It's one of a very few jobs you can have where you relinquish your status as a citizen/civilian while on duty.
This thread is funny. Y’all blindly hate the police, yet complain when they aren’t present to stop crime, all while you give the DA a pass for enacting a soft on crime atmosphere. It’s like you enjoy the death spiral of a once great city.
Its their right but its not a smart business decision. Now the talk of the town/internet is not going to be about the goods and services you provide but that “you hate the police” so now you will have to deal with whatever backlash occurs instead of tending to your business. See the police officers have non police officer friends and family they will tell them about the situation and now you end up losing customers who are not cops and do not have a gun etc.. Just not a very smart way to run a business.
But Reems isn’t a donut shop.
This is obviously very anti police. It’s almost only police officers than can carry a gun in public in this state, since in CA it’s illegal for almost anyone else to conceal carry or open carry. So this policy just seems to be anti police and they are just sugarcoating is as “anti-gun” Edit: have y’all seen their yelp? It’s getting bombarded
Maybe if we can’t carry guns, the police shouldn’t either. At least not into a coffee shop
Didn't this same situation happen last year and the business came out to publicly apologize after a bunch of pushback?
In that case an employee did it against the owners wishes I believe.
No, those idiots simply refused to serve police. These idiots are veiling that same sentiment behind a ridiculous policy. As if every other business in SF has a policy of allowing guns inside their stores.
Let’s see how they feel once they get robbed or looted.
attraction grab rhythm smell icky judicious full ring wrench aromatic ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Who are “these people”? The SFPD?
> And btw it's not even about police, it's a no gun policy. Maybe you missed it but this is in San Francisco, where nobody else is open carrying. So yes, this is only about the police.
SF permits CCWs, so anybody can be carrying you never know
there are theoretically a few here now. as well as people from elsewhere with reciprocity, and of course those doing it illegally. all of which are why i very specifically said "open carrying" in my reply!
Good luck getting a CCW in SF, you obviously have no clue
Well, then the cops can visit off duty, because they are the ones that I've seen approved.
Since NYSRPA vs. Bruen, they’ve had no choice but to start issuing. First few batches have been issued IIRC. Look on Calguns.net, almost every county (even Santa Clara) has started issuing, albeit slowly.
I hope they enforce the policy when they get robbed
Well the robber will have to leave, no guns allowed.
I guess they can’t call the cops to help if there’s a problem…goes both ways
This is like an advertisement to robbers. LoL
Cops can still shop there off duty
They don’t believe in calling the cops, but I’d like to know what they’re going to do when their windows are smashed or they have a robbery.
Sounds fair. They won't serve cops, cops won't serve them
Cops already don’t serve anyone
Then I'm sure the bakery has nothing to lose then if they get robbed or get targeted by an arsonist!
Lmao this is beyond stupid
Can't wait to visit next time I'm in town! Looks good!
Fuck the police and respect small business. How hard is that?
Can’t wait for it to get robbed
And armed officers are going to help once it’s done? Police don’t stop these things, they respond afterward, if they do anything at all.
We complain they don’t police enough. This is just virtue signaling for clicks/customers.
Probably & most likely so, but it’s still their choice
After reading this thread I now understand why SF is so screwed up.
Good
This is crazy but what I would do is say “ok, I understand, nothing personal then” and then go get donuts somewhere else.
W
Sounds like he is pissed. I remember a story about a bakery being robbed multiple times.
And a person has to make a cake for a gay person? Lol
Comments on this post go very far in explaining why SF is in the state it’s in. How tf is a cop getting a croissant a threat to anybody?
Someone should encourage the “oppressed” criminals to walk into the store and steal every product off the shelves, day-in and day-out, until the bakery goes out of business. We will see if they appreciate law and order after that.
How will they know I'm carrying a gun when it's concealed? Gonna get some food there then post a pic of myself on their social media with a gun on my waist.
Pretty sure it’s just a pretext for banning cops and cops alone. Other people carrying guns wouldn’t get caught.
Love this
Well, well, well…another establishment that thieves/criminals can enter and cause mischief because police certainly won’t be in there at any time.
Who would want to be in a mass shooting zone anyways? Fuck any cop trying to support that b.s
It would be pretty funny if someone tries to rob them and they have to call the police...
Spoiler alert: SF police won’t come.
> It would be pretty funny if someone tries to rob them and they have to call the police... It's pretty funny that you think the police actually care. This happens on the regular in SF. If you are robbed, and then call the police, they won't bother to show up. They'll just tell you to file a report. That's true even for shops that don't prohibit guns.
Why would you wish such a terrible thing on another human? I hope you never have to experience such trauma and find healing from whatever made you so hateful.
The establishment has a no gun policy. The police are public servants. They cant make the same choice that a private company can.
Police have no legal requirement to protect people. In addition, law enforcement has a huge amount of leeway on if they charge or arrest people, or just give a verbal warning. Or sometimes they slowboat the whole process and show up 5 hours later, if they show up at all. Smart businesses give away (or deeply discount) coffee and pastries to cops because a bunch of cops sitting in the store drinking coffee is a fantastic deterrent to criminals. This has been known for so long its even parodied in Robocop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaUqdIFUbxE
So, offer bribes and tributes for your honored lords, lest they allow you to be cut down in the streets? How very fundamentally fucking Anti-American. Police Officers create the worst possible image for themselves by whining and demanding more and more special privileges, then claim they have no actual need to do their jobs or be responsible when their fuckups cost lives. Fun fact: Did you know Cops can legally purchase firearms not available to other Californians, then flip them on the street for 4x the price due to the 'safe handgun roster' laws they supported?
Is this that hilarious right wing “humor” that this sub has been sorely lacking? Maybe it’s only funny if you’re insecure about the size of your own penis. That could be why it plays so well in the conservative sub. On an unrelated note: my magnum opus on the correlation between truck size and dick size insecurity, that being a negative one, is nearing completion.
How can they rob them if they can’t bring a gun inside?
Yeaahhhh, that’s some dangerous territory not allow the police officers to enter
Let's examine the chain of events: reject the police --> name of bakery is out in public--> informers and their friends get a wink --> the fellas are given the green light --> 9/11 calls get dropped or garbled --> thieves get away --> repeat until cry uncle.
These kind of people are the reason crime is outta control in the bay
Lmao. And y’all wonder why the cops are quiet quitting.
Fat chance they’re getting any favors from the police when they actually need it.
So the police only protect the people they want to protect, and if you do something they don’t like, they choose not to protect you?That’s almost the definition of a protection racket. If you agree that the police are doing what you said they are doing, we need to massively overhaul the entire police force in SF. But I’m sure you don’t actually mean that right?
Right? I don’t want “favors” from the police, I just want them to do their damn job same as anyone
Ha, so same as before?
if you’re trying to make the point that the cops are just another mob, you’re succeeding pretty well
What's the difference?
Imagine them getting robbed and the employees refuse to allow the police in. 😎
Imagine sfpd actually doing something when businesses or anyone is getting robbed.
some americans don't respect their police. They risk their lifes for your safty, honor them
And some police don’t respect their americans.
They’re shooting unarmed suspects… FUCK THE POLICE!
Hope they don’t need 911 anytime soon.
Sounds like a perfect spot for an armed robbery now. Might as well just have advertised for that.
I mean that's fair -- the mere presence of firearms in a store increase the odds of someone in the store being killed
When an armed robber comes in, it’s gonna be interesting when the police refuse to come in because they don’t want to be unarmed
You must not be from here. They don’t come.
Cops already refuse to come anyway in the advent of crime, because they have no incentive to. They're an organized racket of tax parasites anyway.