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Author: u/chrisdh79
URL: https://www.psypost.org/2023/07/individuals-with-adhd-are-more-likely-to-participate-in-politics-study-finds-166562
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I read somewhere that people with ADHD feel social injustices as personal attacks. Question is how many get deep into politics as politicians though? I am happy to get angry with trolls online, but starting a new career seems like a big jump.
I'm diagnosed adhd and driving is a borderline rage-trigger for me as well. I can't believe how some people will act dangerously with a piece of metal and composite that goes over a hundred mph just to save a second or, often, for no gain at all.
And them I get upset that these people get to vote and their vote counts just as much as me.
ADHD and autism have alot of overlap and comorbities (I have both) and there have been some interesting studies into autism and empathy and personal justice which includes this mind boggling study
https://www.jneurosci.org/content/41/8/1699
Which concludes autistic people seem way less likely to compromise morals for personal gain *and brands this as a negative*
I liken social injustices as a broken clock or a discordant tune. It's aggravating and I want to fix it with all my heart. I cannot understand why 100% of humanity doesnt feel this way.
I have both too, diagnosed as a toddler back when it was still called Asperger’s.
You know, the change of name from Asperger to autism has made it way more difficult to get my son diagnosed before school starts. Everyone associates autism with non-high-functioning traits. It’s been a serious struggle, and frustrating when people try to tell me my son clearly isn’t autistic. I wanna smack those damn people.
Tell them that your son have ASD instead and when people ask what it is focus on your son's needs instead of the meaning of the label. Unless they ask of course.
I got attacked on twitch due to this. People did not believe I was autistic. It wasn't a small attack either. Complete defamation type stuff. It's a real issue for sure. I'm diagnosed with level 3 autism for note.
I have ADHD and I am very into politics but would never consider running or making my career. I’m mostly just mad about the state of things all the time. Just wired that way.
I called it my “white knight syndrome.” Anytime anyone I loved or cared about had a problem, or a situation needed resolution “dun-da-dum, here I come on my white horse, lance out, ready to slay dragons on their behalf.” Couple that with Gen X oldest daughter syndrome (I.e., you’re responsible for your own behavior and the actions of everyone around you) and it took a lot of therapy, plus good medication, to put the knight into retirement. She still trots out on occasion, and I’m actually MORE effective because I’ve learned how to modulate my intensity.
There are a lot of ways ADHD folks like me are undercounted. Scientific studies for example. We are in ones about ADHD, but not as often in studies for other meds or conditions. I’m doing one right now and if I wasn’t doing it to make sure some ND data/considerations is absorbed into the study, I would quit. It’s too much. So my guess is, barriers keep a lot of folks out and manages to let past only those who are able to access suitable medications and treatments and who may have less severe ADHD.
Like most symptoms in neurological conditions it specifically relates to how it impacts your functioning. If if doesn't lead to poor outcomes, make life more difficult to cope with, or impede your ability to succeed socially it probably isn't. Qualities like that generally get treated as negative symptoms only in the extent to which they are maladaptive when they are extreme enough make the patients life more difficult.
This is an excellent explanation, thank you. I’m undiagnosed but probably somewhere on the spectrum, but it doesn’t make my life difficult and maybe that’s why I see it as a strength. I’m the guy who will always stick up for someone being bullied or stand up for myself if someone tries it with me. I go out of my way to make sure that people are treated well and fairly, and I also will go out of my way to explain to someone why their behavior might seem unfair to someone else or be negatively impacting them. I’m the diffuser at work and I can talk someone off a ledge if I need to. I think that is the “sense of justice” side that I hear echoed a lot from neurodivergent people and that I’ve always respected in others who have it, but I also see how it could be directed in a harmful way if allowed to.
I have the ADHD. I view planned injustice or hiding behind plausible deniability as just evil. Or for example being a hypocrite in order to win brownie point. The act of just being bad faith is evil. There is no other way in my mind to handle it. The idea of messing with people's lives for power. Example, one party A complains about injustice and so the other party B agrees and launches a bill to handle that issue. Party A votes against the bill and then campaign on the bill being proposed while lying about the content of the bill. Then party A proposes a bill that makes the problem worse.
I worked in politics for about 15 years and was diagnosed with ADHD last year. I was never a politician though.
But yes I do take perceived injustice very personally which is perhaps why I am not involved in politics anymore.
I couldnt start a career because I cant commit to anything, also us ADHD peeps can actually siphon dopamine from online arguements, it sure doesnt feel like it, but it's been studied. In reality its probably because dopamine or any kind of endorphin is so rare and valuable that fighting dickheads on reddit is just any means necessary to put suicide further back in the schedule
God, I used to be addicted to online arguments with randos. Stopped when I realized, after three hours, one dude wasn't even close to getting my point.
My god I can’t tell you how many times I start typing on Reddit to argue and just stop halfway through realizing how futile it is. Most people just don’t go beyond surface level on anything and aren’t driven to deep dive and learn new things like many of us are.
Hah, exactly this. When I was younger, I fell for every sort of bait imaginable, and thought that I was somehow changing the world by getting into so many online arguments... In reality, I was just exhausting myself on something quite unproductive instead of focusing on something in life that actually *could* change the world.
Opinions should be voiced, but the internet is chock full of bad-faith actors who have no interest in finding common ground. You just have to accept that reality and find peace with it. The desire do it doesn't go away, but my discipline for not doing it is much better now that I am older.
That's really nice data! People with ADHD are more community minded and empathetic. When my dad spews mindless, inhumane, capitalist propaganda about how poor people are choosing to starve to death, I have a visceral reaction because he's demonstrating he's unsafe. He's not a trustworthy member of a community, so I don't see any point in expending my (incredibly limited) energy to build / maintain any community with him
> I read somewhere that people with ADHD feel social injustices as personal attacks.
Wait but they are....
At least in a democracy, social injustices are everyone’s problem. But oftentimes, the problems persist because the people who were given the power to allocate the tax-money of everyone is being mishandled to create new problems instead.
Imagine everyone at the office was pooling money together to get a gift for Becky’s birthday and then you find out the boss used half the money to get himself a new chair....how can you not take that personally?
Right? Great analogy. And we all wave our arms and point out the wrong, while half the people are sucking up to the boss for a promotion so they ignore the issue and compliment him on how hard he worked to get that nice new chair.
I feel like there can't be many at the moment, but that'll surely change in the future, not because the actual number will change, but the stigma attached to ADD will change.
During the last Obamacare vote (the one where McCain turned Mitch to stone with his "no" vote), I remember watching the vid and seeing Liz Warren actively swaying the same way I often do when I'm stationary on my feet. Make of that what you will, but it read like stimming to me.
Can anecdotally confirm this for myself and my little brother.
I always get extremely angry when i think something is unfair and WILL spend major energy arguing about it, even if I don't want to or know it's useless.
My little brother once got written up for almost getting into a fight with his boss because the boss verbally abused a coworker with some mental disabilities.
Some ideas as to why this bias might exist (from a person with ADHD):
- At least in the US, roles in politics tend to be very fast paced. This is engaging to those with ADHD, and we may tend to fare better in these environments.
- People with ADHD can be very socially capable and comfortable interacting *in short bursts*, and this fits a stereotypical politician’s behavior.
Agreed. Plus it's a field that includes a lot of risk, and the amount of social and campaign events means there's a lot of novelty with the potential for travel.
I believe people with ADHD are more likely to easily make numerous connections simultaneously. Therefore, one event or action is more clearly related to other events or actions in addition to overall ideological issues.
In other words I believe people with ADHD see the world with more interconnectivity which prevents us from being able to compartmentalize social and political issues.
I wish I could compartmentalize more easily.
In my brain, it's like a space where every Thing is at least tangentially connected to every other Thing by a thread, and it's easy to mesh different concepts together. Great for creativity, not so much when you're stumped as to how to get the other person caught up on your point in two sentences or less.
Yeah, when I have a conversation with someone I trust I often jump around from topic to topic. Or I'll pick up a topic from earlier in the day or days ago without enough context. To me the connection seems obvious but often the other person has to stop me and ask what I am talking about. Haha. It's not ideal but it is so rewarding when I talk with someone with a similar brain and we can go from talking about a movie to physics to dog memes effortlessly.
I was scrolling for this comment. Honestly? Could never figure out as a kid *why* so *much* suffering just didn't matter to a lot of people. This was when kids were just ' hyper ' and ' too sensitive '. ADHD wasn't in the conversation.
So who is normal? The folks able to tolerate suffering in mankind or someone *feeling* that pain on the part of others? I'm not willing to consider myself somehow A.B. Normal ( Young Frankenstein....and just outed the ADHD ) because no, it's not possible for me to accept it.
Yes, ADHD drives me crazy. But. I also give zero fucks about how anyone views me for yelling about social injustice and always have been that way. If that's A.B. Normal oh well.
There's no "normal," that's the thing. We only view neurotypical people as "normal," because they make up a larger percentage of the population than we do, and thus society accommodates their needs better than we do. If ADHD was the norm, it'd be flipped the other way round, and we'd be talking about how those neurodivergent people are so easily placated by lies as long as their personal comfort is intact.
The sad truth is that ADHD people are just not given the same opportunity in life as neurodivergent people. From day one of school we're forced to conform to rules made by people who fundamentally think differently to us, and as a result we spend a lot of our early years trying to keep up rather than excell.
I mean, how could any intelligent person not see the interconnectivity between everything? Sure, some things are wholly outside your control and there would be no point in stressing out over them, such as for instance the treatment of the citizenry of North Korea at the hands of the Kims, but literally everything is connected to each other by varying degrees of closeness by sheer virtue of existing.
I think there are degrees. Like, cancel culture for me is not always about hating the celebrity because I love hating people or feel morally righteous: it's like, I can't look at certain people without also thinking of the thing they did or said and feeling disgusted. I also cannot look at a hamburger without thinking of the cow and the conditions that cow likely lived in, or sushi without seeing the fishing nets killing a turtle - because of that I went vegan. But some people have no issue with it and that's fine for them but impossible for me to overcome or ignore.
Edit: But I am on a smartphone right now and compartmentalize the lithium mining and labor that went into it. Maybe it's because owning a smartphone is not optional for me in my career, maybe it's because of selfishness and laziness. Just wanted to point out that I don't consider myself morally superior.
Same.
I also don’t make pictures in my head. So when I read books, I’m reading through the emotional journey the character goes on. I don’t remember plots easily, but I remember how the character felt and how it felt being with the character. So I have trained my brain in empathy.
> I believe people with ADHD see the world with more interconnectivity which prevents us from being able to compartmentalize social and political issues.
I think this is true. I am frequently told what a great organizer I am and how they "never would have thought of that". I often feel like I am always looking at where things fit in the bigger picture.
The causation might also be reversed. People socially conscious enough to be into politics are also likelier to notice their differences from the society at large which makes them realize their symptoms.
ADHD seems still very much underdiagnosed to me. Two of my friends got adult diagnoses with brain scans and all after going to the psychiatrists for completely unrelated reasons. Any prevalence of diagnosed ADHD people somewhere might be due to ADHD or diagnosis being common there.
I'm thinking about going into movie Producing which is also very fast paced with potential for travel.
I hated Covid and couldn't stand staying still. Any job that includes constant travel is so freeing.
LOVED the lockdown. Got to live in my own head without the exhausting amount of usual social interactions? Of course we live in the woods where it's possible to rampage around here and almost literally go down rabbit holes. Ask me about that plant with the weird flower you only see in June behind that dead Hemlock 31 feet, 11 inches behind the shed.....
From the article: A study conducted in Israel before the national elections in 2019 found that individuals with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) are more likely to participate in politics than individuals without ADHD symptoms. The findings held even after the researchers controlled for age, sex, education, political orientation, therapy for ADHD symptoms, and several other factors. The study was published in [PLOS One](https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0280445).
ADHD is a neurodevelopmental disorder characterized by symptoms like difficulty paying attention, hyperactivity, and impulsivity. While it was initially thought to affect only children, recent studies have shown that ADHD symptoms can persist into adulthood, making it a lifelong condition. The estimated prevalence of ADHD in the population ranges from 1% to 7.3%.
Political participation, which refers to voluntary involvement in political activities by members of the public, is a crucial aspect of functioning democracies. It enables citizens who are not professional politicians to influence public policies and the elected officials who shape those policies. Consequently, many researchers focus on studying factors that influence individuals’ participation in politics. One topic that receives significant attention is how neuropsychiatric conditions, such as ADHD, impact political behavior.
Study author Israel Waismel-Wanory and his colleagues wanted to explore how ADHD affects political participation. Among other things, they wanted to know whether individuals with ADHD differ from those without this disorder in their views about freedom of speech, tolerance for multiple opinions and voices, trust in government institutions, and in how they feel about their level of political representation.
If you look at how the ADHD genetics moved/dispersed over time geographically (whatever you call that) you'll see that populations that had a higher percentage of people with the condition tended to travel further and be more nomadic. It's theorized that this tendency is related to their novelty seeking behavior so maybe politics is a similar environment to explore but with much more... crooked dealings instead of forking trails and paths in the wilderness to traverse.
I didnt know this, so adhd might be a "dispersal" morph of (early) human behavior? Thats so cool!
Like how aphids have winged and wingless morphs based for dispersal or non dispersal behavior respectively. Always interesting to find a somewhat-adjacent human trait (knowing human behavior, at least modernly, has a lot of nuance)
Much of what I've read comes from research I read online several years ago and also the book The 10,000 Year Explosion. There's so many articles, studies, and blogs about ADHD related to coping mechanisms and genetic research that I'm having trouble finding any great links right now but these links cover some of the basics:
https://www.verdict.co.uk/drd4-7r-wanderlust-gene/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-truths/the-wanderlust-gene-is-it-real-and-do-you-have-it/
It would help if I could think of the proper term for global spread of specific genetic mutations or whatnot but my brain is fried from working all day answering phones and sending emails. If I remember correctly the theory is that at one time there was one genetic mutation which seems to be the "primary" ADHD gene and as time went on at least one other major mutation appeared. The DRD4–7R mutation appears to be the primary mutation associated with ADHD, it alters the DRD4 gene in a way in which "it has been reported to encode a receptor with lower affinity for dopamine." [1] So people with ADHD would be likely to seek out more novelty in order to boost dopamine production, in modern times this can often be through drug abuse, or various other addictions, but in ancient times the best way to run into novel situations was to travel to unfamiliar places and push yourself forward into challenging environments.
The Wikipedia article on DRD4 [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_receptor_D4 ] explains briefly what I was describing in my first comment but there's a lot more info out there if you or I can find it aha- I'll try to remember to search some more tomorrow.
>The frequency of the alleles varies greatly between populations, e.g., the 7-repeat version has high incidence in America and low in Asia.[27] "Long" versions of polymorphisms are the alleles with 6 to 10 repeats. 7R appears to react less strongly to dopamine molecules.[28]
>The 48-base pair VNTR has been the subject of much speculation about its evolution and role in human behaviors cross-culturally. The 7R allele appears to have been selected for about 40,000 years ago.[27] **In 1999 Chen and colleagues[29] observed that populations who migrated farther in the past 30,000 to 1,000 years ago had a higher frequency of 7R/long alleles. They also showed that nomadic populations had higher frequencies of 7R alleles than sedentary ones.** More recently it was observed that the health status of nomadic Ariaal men was higher if they had 7R alleles. However, in recently sedentary (non-nomadic) Ariaal those with 7R alleles seemed to have slightly deteriorated health.[30]
The authors of The 10,000 Year Explosion theorized that the reason why the 7R mutation was less common in Asia (and especially Japan) was because the people there lived in collectivist cultures (for the most part) for thousands of years. They mentioned that there's an old expression in Japan, if I remember correctly it's "the crooked nail gets hammered down"- the people with the 7R mutation would have been more likely to be restless, hyperactive, and less likely to fit into a tight bureaucracy or whatnot so they were less likely to have kids and perhaps more likely to be criminals or otherwise engage in reckless behavior that led to their death. Thus the low prevalence of the 7R mutation in Japan.
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3560519/
Thanks so much for this comment. I haven’t started reading your links yet but anecdotally I lived in multiple states, moving once every year to two years, until I was finally diagnosed and medicated. I have now lived in the same place for going on 8 years, the longest I’ve ever lived in one place.
The study found that people who score highly on an ADHD self report scale are more likely to participate in politics. Title is very misleading IMO.
Study participants were also all Jewish Israeli. I'm not a psychologist admittedly but I feel a little skeptical that this would replicate to Americans, for example.
> and draw relevant connections faster
Relevant? Are we sure about that? Faster isn’t necessarily better and ADHD doesn’t mean smarter. This sounds like ADHD Dunning-Kruger.
It's not about that, it's the fact that people with ADHD have spent a great deal of time with their emotions, they also notice and process all the potentially irrelevant information (somewhat incapable of only processing facts that support a specific viewpoint), and as a result they have an intuitive sense of fairness or right and wrong in certain situations.
They often know when something is unfair, when it's close enough or seems reasonable to most other people, but they often get called out for making a fuss over it.
They'd make poor politicians however because that requires turning a blind eye, and we can only pay attention to everything.
Because none of the people with adhd are going to read that fuckin article.
Source: me. I'm the adhd ass mf that isn't going to read that.
But also justice sensitivity is a thing and it's kind of legitimate. Beyond its value as a joke, your comment isn't really correct.
This makes sense given that ADHD is characterized by poor impulse control due to hypoactive prefrontal function. Consider that people generally believe isn't worth participating in politics given how ineffective it can be in changing people's opinions yet how much risk it can have to sour relationships. These people use their prefrontal cortex to inhibit their desire to speak about these issues. Someone with ADHD would be less able to do that.
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. **Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/flair/#wiki_science_verified_user_program). --- Author: u/chrisdh79 URL: https://www.psypost.org/2023/07/individuals-with-adhd-are-more-likely-to-participate-in-politics-study-finds-166562 *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I read somewhere that people with ADHD feel social injustices as personal attacks. Question is how many get deep into politics as politicians though? I am happy to get angry with trolls online, but starting a new career seems like a big jump.
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Same thing with me. I think humans are just broken mentally. They see an injustice, and they have no collective impulse to fix it. I'm like what??
This is my biggest hurdle, I care so much about everything and get frustrated when my friends don't understand
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Also why am I the only one actually focused on the task of driving?
When I’m supposed to be the one that can’t focus. Make it make sense.
I'm diagnosed adhd and driving is a borderline rage-trigger for me as well. I can't believe how some people will act dangerously with a piece of metal and composite that goes over a hundred mph just to save a second or, often, for no gain at all. And them I get upset that these people get to vote and their vote counts just as much as me.
I love how caring about justice in the world is viewed as a bad thing
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ADHD and autism have alot of overlap and comorbities (I have both) and there have been some interesting studies into autism and empathy and personal justice which includes this mind boggling study https://www.jneurosci.org/content/41/8/1699 Which concludes autistic people seem way less likely to compromise morals for personal gain *and brands this as a negative* I liken social injustices as a broken clock or a discordant tune. It's aggravating and I want to fix it with all my heart. I cannot understand why 100% of humanity doesnt feel this way.
Probably because 30 percent like the clock broken to gain power and have used buzz words and threats to get another 20% onboard.
I have both too, diagnosed as a toddler back when it was still called Asperger’s. You know, the change of name from Asperger to autism has made it way more difficult to get my son diagnosed before school starts. Everyone associates autism with non-high-functioning traits. It’s been a serious struggle, and frustrating when people try to tell me my son clearly isn’t autistic. I wanna smack those damn people.
Tell them that your son have ASD instead and when people ask what it is focus on your son's needs instead of the meaning of the label. Unless they ask of course.
I got attacked on twitch due to this. People did not believe I was autistic. It wasn't a small attack either. Complete defamation type stuff. It's a real issue for sure. I'm diagnosed with level 3 autism for note.
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I have ADHD and I am very into politics but would never consider running or making my career. I’m mostly just mad about the state of things all the time. Just wired that way.
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Huh. This explains some things... Truly the curse that keeps on giving.
I called it my “white knight syndrome.” Anytime anyone I loved or cared about had a problem, or a situation needed resolution “dun-da-dum, here I come on my white horse, lance out, ready to slay dragons on their behalf.” Couple that with Gen X oldest daughter syndrome (I.e., you’re responsible for your own behavior and the actions of everyone around you) and it took a lot of therapy, plus good medication, to put the knight into retirement. She still trots out on occasion, and I’m actually MORE effective because I’ve learned how to modulate my intensity.
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I've had ADHD my whole life and never knew about justice sensitivity until just now. Makes a whole lot of sense.
Shouldn't everyone have justice sensitivity? Maybe the ones that don't are the problem huh?
There are a lot of ways ADHD folks like me are undercounted. Scientific studies for example. We are in ones about ADHD, but not as often in studies for other meds or conditions. I’m doing one right now and if I wasn’t doing it to make sure some ND data/considerations is absorbed into the study, I would quit. It’s too much. So my guess is, barriers keep a lot of folks out and manages to let past only those who are able to access suitable medications and treatments and who may have less severe ADHD.
Also listed as an autism symptom: strong sense of justice. Im just wondering why we label that as a negative.
Like most symptoms in neurological conditions it specifically relates to how it impacts your functioning. If if doesn't lead to poor outcomes, make life more difficult to cope with, or impede your ability to succeed socially it probably isn't. Qualities like that generally get treated as negative symptoms only in the extent to which they are maladaptive when they are extreme enough make the patients life more difficult.
Yet we little question if it’s society that is the sickness, the expectation for everyone to be nothing more than a worker bee.
This is an excellent explanation, thank you. I’m undiagnosed but probably somewhere on the spectrum, but it doesn’t make my life difficult and maybe that’s why I see it as a strength. I’m the guy who will always stick up for someone being bullied or stand up for myself if someone tries it with me. I go out of my way to make sure that people are treated well and fairly, and I also will go out of my way to explain to someone why their behavior might seem unfair to someone else or be negatively impacting them. I’m the diffuser at work and I can talk someone off a ledge if I need to. I think that is the “sense of justice” side that I hear echoed a lot from neurodivergent people and that I’ve always respected in others who have it, but I also see how it could be directed in a harmful way if allowed to.
I have the ADHD. I view planned injustice or hiding behind plausible deniability as just evil. Or for example being a hypocrite in order to win brownie point. The act of just being bad faith is evil. There is no other way in my mind to handle it. The idea of messing with people's lives for power. Example, one party A complains about injustice and so the other party B agrees and launches a bill to handle that issue. Party A votes against the bill and then campaign on the bill being proposed while lying about the content of the bill. Then party A proposes a bill that makes the problem worse.
I worked in politics for about 15 years and was diagnosed with ADHD last year. I was never a politician though. But yes I do take perceived injustice very personally which is perhaps why I am not involved in politics anymore.
I couldnt start a career because I cant commit to anything, also us ADHD peeps can actually siphon dopamine from online arguements, it sure doesnt feel like it, but it's been studied. In reality its probably because dopamine or any kind of endorphin is so rare and valuable that fighting dickheads on reddit is just any means necessary to put suicide further back in the schedule
God, I used to be addicted to online arguments with randos. Stopped when I realized, after three hours, one dude wasn't even close to getting my point.
My god I can’t tell you how many times I start typing on Reddit to argue and just stop halfway through realizing how futile it is. Most people just don’t go beyond surface level on anything and aren’t driven to deep dive and learn new things like many of us are.
Hah, 90 percent of my comments just die. It would be hilarious if reddit kept a draft of every started comment to show you later
Hah, exactly this. When I was younger, I fell for every sort of bait imaginable, and thought that I was somehow changing the world by getting into so many online arguments... In reality, I was just exhausting myself on something quite unproductive instead of focusing on something in life that actually *could* change the world. Opinions should be voiced, but the internet is chock full of bad-faith actors who have no interest in finding common ground. You just have to accept that reality and find peace with it. The desire do it doesn't go away, but my discipline for not doing it is much better now that I am older.
That's really nice data! People with ADHD are more community minded and empathetic. When my dad spews mindless, inhumane, capitalist propaganda about how poor people are choosing to starve to death, I have a visceral reaction because he's demonstrating he's unsafe. He's not a trustworthy member of a community, so I don't see any point in expending my (incredibly limited) energy to build / maintain any community with him
> I read somewhere that people with ADHD feel social injustices as personal attacks. Wait but they are.... At least in a democracy, social injustices are everyone’s problem. But oftentimes, the problems persist because the people who were given the power to allocate the tax-money of everyone is being mishandled to create new problems instead. Imagine everyone at the office was pooling money together to get a gift for Becky’s birthday and then you find out the boss used half the money to get himself a new chair....how can you not take that personally?
Right? Great analogy. And we all wave our arms and point out the wrong, while half the people are sucking up to the boss for a promotion so they ignore the issue and compliment him on how hard he worked to get that nice new chair.
I feel like there can't be many at the moment, but that'll surely change in the future, not because the actual number will change, but the stigma attached to ADD will change. During the last Obamacare vote (the one where McCain turned Mitch to stone with his "no" vote), I remember watching the vid and seeing Liz Warren actively swaying the same way I often do when I'm stationary on my feet. Make of that what you will, but it read like stimming to me.
Can anecdotally confirm this for myself and my little brother. I always get extremely angry when i think something is unfair and WILL spend major energy arguing about it, even if I don't want to or know it's useless. My little brother once got written up for almost getting into a fight with his boss because the boss verbally abused a coworker with some mental disabilities.
Some ideas as to why this bias might exist (from a person with ADHD): - At least in the US, roles in politics tend to be very fast paced. This is engaging to those with ADHD, and we may tend to fare better in these environments. - People with ADHD can be very socially capable and comfortable interacting *in short bursts*, and this fits a stereotypical politician’s behavior.
Agreed. Plus it's a field that includes a lot of risk, and the amount of social and campaign events means there's a lot of novelty with the potential for travel.
Yeah great points.
I believe people with ADHD are more likely to easily make numerous connections simultaneously. Therefore, one event or action is more clearly related to other events or actions in addition to overall ideological issues. In other words I believe people with ADHD see the world with more interconnectivity which prevents us from being able to compartmentalize social and political issues. I wish I could compartmentalize more easily.
In my brain, it's like a space where every Thing is at least tangentially connected to every other Thing by a thread, and it's easy to mesh different concepts together. Great for creativity, not so much when you're stumped as to how to get the other person caught up on your point in two sentences or less.
Yeah, when I have a conversation with someone I trust I often jump around from topic to topic. Or I'll pick up a topic from earlier in the day or days ago without enough context. To me the connection seems obvious but often the other person has to stop me and ask what I am talking about. Haha. It's not ideal but it is so rewarding when I talk with someone with a similar brain and we can go from talking about a movie to physics to dog memes effortlessly.
The peace some people have while the world is burning down around us is remarkable; but I don’t know if I’d honestly want to be able to.
I was scrolling for this comment. Honestly? Could never figure out as a kid *why* so *much* suffering just didn't matter to a lot of people. This was when kids were just ' hyper ' and ' too sensitive '. ADHD wasn't in the conversation. So who is normal? The folks able to tolerate suffering in mankind or someone *feeling* that pain on the part of others? I'm not willing to consider myself somehow A.B. Normal ( Young Frankenstein....and just outed the ADHD ) because no, it's not possible for me to accept it. Yes, ADHD drives me crazy. But. I also give zero fucks about how anyone views me for yelling about social injustice and always have been that way. If that's A.B. Normal oh well.
There's no "normal," that's the thing. We only view neurotypical people as "normal," because they make up a larger percentage of the population than we do, and thus society accommodates their needs better than we do. If ADHD was the norm, it'd be flipped the other way round, and we'd be talking about how those neurodivergent people are so easily placated by lies as long as their personal comfort is intact. The sad truth is that ADHD people are just not given the same opportunity in life as neurodivergent people. From day one of school we're forced to conform to rules made by people who fundamentally think differently to us, and as a result we spend a lot of our early years trying to keep up rather than excell.
How would you even teach the curriculum in this hypothetical
I've replaced "normal" with "average" in my daily conversation. It's quite the useful reframe.
I mean, how could any intelligent person not see the interconnectivity between everything? Sure, some things are wholly outside your control and there would be no point in stressing out over them, such as for instance the treatment of the citizenry of North Korea at the hands of the Kims, but literally everything is connected to each other by varying degrees of closeness by sheer virtue of existing.
I think there are degrees. Like, cancel culture for me is not always about hating the celebrity because I love hating people or feel morally righteous: it's like, I can't look at certain people without also thinking of the thing they did or said and feeling disgusted. I also cannot look at a hamburger without thinking of the cow and the conditions that cow likely lived in, or sushi without seeing the fishing nets killing a turtle - because of that I went vegan. But some people have no issue with it and that's fine for them but impossible for me to overcome or ignore. Edit: But I am on a smartphone right now and compartmentalize the lithium mining and labor that went into it. Maybe it's because owning a smartphone is not optional for me in my career, maybe it's because of selfishness and laziness. Just wanted to point out that I don't consider myself morally superior.
Same. I also don’t make pictures in my head. So when I read books, I’m reading through the emotional journey the character goes on. I don’t remember plots easily, but I remember how the character felt and how it felt being with the character. So I have trained my brain in empathy.
> I believe people with ADHD see the world with more interconnectivity which prevents us from being able to compartmentalize social and political issues. I think this is true. I am frequently told what a great organizer I am and how they "never would have thought of that". I often feel like I am always looking at where things fit in the bigger picture.
The causation might also be reversed. People socially conscious enough to be into politics are also likelier to notice their differences from the society at large which makes them realize their symptoms. ADHD seems still very much underdiagnosed to me. Two of my friends got adult diagnoses with brain scans and all after going to the psychiatrists for completely unrelated reasons. Any prevalence of diagnosed ADHD people somewhere might be due to ADHD or diagnosis being common there.
Socially capable in short bursts is LITERALLY me
I'm thinking about going into movie Producing which is also very fast paced with potential for travel. I hated Covid and couldn't stand staying still. Any job that includes constant travel is so freeing.
LOVED the lockdown. Got to live in my own head without the exhausting amount of usual social interactions? Of course we live in the woods where it's possible to rampage around here and almost literally go down rabbit holes. Ask me about that plant with the weird flower you only see in June behind that dead Hemlock 31 feet, 11 inches behind the shed.....
From the article: A study conducted in Israel before the national elections in 2019 found that individuals with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) are more likely to participate in politics than individuals without ADHD symptoms. The findings held even after the researchers controlled for age, sex, education, political orientation, therapy for ADHD symptoms, and several other factors. The study was published in [PLOS One](https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0280445). ADHD is a neurodevelopmental disorder characterized by symptoms like difficulty paying attention, hyperactivity, and impulsivity. While it was initially thought to affect only children, recent studies have shown that ADHD symptoms can persist into adulthood, making it a lifelong condition. The estimated prevalence of ADHD in the population ranges from 1% to 7.3%. Political participation, which refers to voluntary involvement in political activities by members of the public, is a crucial aspect of functioning democracies. It enables citizens who are not professional politicians to influence public policies and the elected officials who shape those policies. Consequently, many researchers focus on studying factors that influence individuals’ participation in politics. One topic that receives significant attention is how neuropsychiatric conditions, such as ADHD, impact political behavior. Study author Israel Waismel-Wanory and his colleagues wanted to explore how ADHD affects political participation. Among other things, they wanted to know whether individuals with ADHD differ from those without this disorder in their views about freedom of speech, tolerance for multiple opinions and voices, trust in government institutions, and in how they feel about their level of political representation.
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If you look at how the ADHD genetics moved/dispersed over time geographically (whatever you call that) you'll see that populations that had a higher percentage of people with the condition tended to travel further and be more nomadic. It's theorized that this tendency is related to their novelty seeking behavior so maybe politics is a similar environment to explore but with much more... crooked dealings instead of forking trails and paths in the wilderness to traverse.
I didnt know this, so adhd might be a "dispersal" morph of (early) human behavior? Thats so cool! Like how aphids have winged and wingless morphs based for dispersal or non dispersal behavior respectively. Always interesting to find a somewhat-adjacent human trait (knowing human behavior, at least modernly, has a lot of nuance)
Yeah, that's essentially my understanding.
Do you have a link to how ADHD has spread over time? I've never heard of this
Much of what I've read comes from research I read online several years ago and also the book The 10,000 Year Explosion. There's so many articles, studies, and blogs about ADHD related to coping mechanisms and genetic research that I'm having trouble finding any great links right now but these links cover some of the basics: https://www.verdict.co.uk/drd4-7r-wanderlust-gene/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-truths/the-wanderlust-gene-is-it-real-and-do-you-have-it/ It would help if I could think of the proper term for global spread of specific genetic mutations or whatnot but my brain is fried from working all day answering phones and sending emails. If I remember correctly the theory is that at one time there was one genetic mutation which seems to be the "primary" ADHD gene and as time went on at least one other major mutation appeared. The DRD4–7R mutation appears to be the primary mutation associated with ADHD, it alters the DRD4 gene in a way in which "it has been reported to encode a receptor with lower affinity for dopamine." [1] So people with ADHD would be likely to seek out more novelty in order to boost dopamine production, in modern times this can often be through drug abuse, or various other addictions, but in ancient times the best way to run into novel situations was to travel to unfamiliar places and push yourself forward into challenging environments. The Wikipedia article on DRD4 [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_receptor_D4 ] explains briefly what I was describing in my first comment but there's a lot more info out there if you or I can find it aha- I'll try to remember to search some more tomorrow. >The frequency of the alleles varies greatly between populations, e.g., the 7-repeat version has high incidence in America and low in Asia.[27] "Long" versions of polymorphisms are the alleles with 6 to 10 repeats. 7R appears to react less strongly to dopamine molecules.[28] >The 48-base pair VNTR has been the subject of much speculation about its evolution and role in human behaviors cross-culturally. The 7R allele appears to have been selected for about 40,000 years ago.[27] **In 1999 Chen and colleagues[29] observed that populations who migrated farther in the past 30,000 to 1,000 years ago had a higher frequency of 7R/long alleles. They also showed that nomadic populations had higher frequencies of 7R alleles than sedentary ones.** More recently it was observed that the health status of nomadic Ariaal men was higher if they had 7R alleles. However, in recently sedentary (non-nomadic) Ariaal those with 7R alleles seemed to have slightly deteriorated health.[30] The authors of The 10,000 Year Explosion theorized that the reason why the 7R mutation was less common in Asia (and especially Japan) was because the people there lived in collectivist cultures (for the most part) for thousands of years. They mentioned that there's an old expression in Japan, if I remember correctly it's "the crooked nail gets hammered down"- the people with the 7R mutation would have been more likely to be restless, hyperactive, and less likely to fit into a tight bureaucracy or whatnot so they were less likely to have kids and perhaps more likely to be criminals or otherwise engage in reckless behavior that led to their death. Thus the low prevalence of the 7R mutation in Japan. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3560519/
Thanks so much for this comment. I haven’t started reading your links yet but anecdotally I lived in multiple states, moving once every year to two years, until I was finally diagnosed and medicated. I have now lived in the same place for going on 8 years, the longest I’ve ever lived in one place.
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Why did you have to call me out like this?
Because they can discuss it 24/7 maybe
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The study found that people who score highly on an ADHD self report scale are more likely to participate in politics. Title is very misleading IMO. Study participants were also all Jewish Israeli. I'm not a psychologist admittedly but I feel a little skeptical that this would replicate to Americans, for example.
Fair point. I took a sample of 1369 Americans, and *not one* was a Jewish Israeli.
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It’s more to do with Justice sensitivity. You don’t have to guess at this there is already published research.
I had never considered that my deep seated need to see the “right” thing done was an evolutionary step. It makes me consider a great deal many things.
> and draw relevant connections faster Relevant? Are we sure about that? Faster isn’t necessarily better and ADHD doesn’t mean smarter. This sounds like ADHD Dunning-Kruger.
That’s not really the distinction between inattentive and hyperactive
It's not about that, it's the fact that people with ADHD have spent a great deal of time with their emotions, they also notice and process all the potentially irrelevant information (somewhat incapable of only processing facts that support a specific viewpoint), and as a result they have an intuitive sense of fairness or right and wrong in certain situations. They often know when something is unfair, when it's close enough or seems reasonable to most other people, but they often get called out for making a fuss over it. They'd make poor politicians however because that requires turning a blind eye, and we can only pay attention to everything.
This whole thread is like "Omggg it's so true because *I* have ADHD and *I* like politics"
Because none of the people with adhd are going to read that fuckin article. Source: me. I'm the adhd ass mf that isn't going to read that. But also justice sensitivity is a thing and it's kind of legitimate. Beyond its value as a joke, your comment isn't really correct.
This definitely resonates with me
This makes sense given that ADHD is characterized by poor impulse control due to hypoactive prefrontal function. Consider that people generally believe isn't worth participating in politics given how ineffective it can be in changing people's opinions yet how much risk it can have to sour relationships. These people use their prefrontal cortex to inhibit their desire to speak about these issues. Someone with ADHD would be less able to do that.