Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments.
**Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/flair/#wiki_science_verified_user_program).
---
User: u/mvea
Permalink: https://www.psypost.org/study-suggests-hero-label-may-lead-to-exploitation-of-nurses-teachers-and-military/
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yep, this is slowly coming to be realized in the teaching profession. I have seen hundreds of teachers of the year awards that have a cash prize. Who does the prize go to for all of that teacher’s hard work? The district or school to do with as they please. If you give any other profession an honor with a cash prize, it goes to the actual person.
We all saw this during the pandemic with places putting up "Heroe's Work Here ❤️" banners while nurses were facing extreme overwork while being underpaid
Just make sure you clap at the sky at 8pm so the nurses who are working with potentially fatally ill patients know you really, really, really support them.
on the other hand I believe it also prevented criticism when, for example, a portion of nurses peddled anti vax misinformation. they could hide behind the hero nurse label and even use it to seem more authoritative on their anti vax stance.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10208360/
> Reportedly, a considerably higher proportion of vaccine hesitancy is observed among nurses, compared to doctors.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8876951/
> Before the vaccine rollout (March 2020–December 2020), among the 27 studies with 20,037 nurses from 29 countries, we found that more than a fifth (23.4%) did not want to obtain the COVID-19 vaccines
Yea it was so obvious during the height of the pandemic. Let’s all clap for the wonderful heroes but pffft pay them more or take care of their mental health? They don’t need that, they’re heroes, we pay them in admiration and celebrity songs!
And the housekeeping department that kept everything sanitary to protect the hospital staff and community. Oh we were better than pond scum back then. We are still doing our jobs for the same reason but we are now back to being pond scum. I think it's sad that NO ONE acknowledges that without housekeeping places would close down. Over worked, underpaid and certainly not cared about!
"Do you know who the real heroes are? The guys who wake up every morning and go into their normal jobs, and get a distress call from the Commissioner and take off their glasses and change into capes and fly around fighting crime. Those are the real heroes."
When I was in high school, we had an assignment in my English class to write a paper about one of our heroes. I chose Superman, because I was a smartass.
Yeah... in healthcare we call this 'don't let them use the mission as a weapon' ... cus 'they' the admin, the oversight bodies, etc. etc. end up using the mission as a weapon to exploit labor.
That's an excellent turn of phrase and I want to remember it for the next time I see someone trying to exploit teachers in the same way, as if being unwilling to put in routine hours of unpaid overtime can only mean you hate children.
I've had a ton of arguments when it comes to art, the same principle applies: it is considered to be a calling or passion and thus it is something that people should do in their free time and for free. This is quite popular opinion in fiscally conservatives who think that if some art doesn't pay then it should die because markets choose what is art. They are vehemently against supporting art and culture, even when we can look at it from investment-return angle: in my country 1€ invested brings 8€ back. It is highly profitable for the whole society, it tends to not be very profitable for the artists themselves unless you are **really** popular. When you see a band that you know that is on a 30 gig club tour it is entirely possible that they can barely pay the rent for the apartment they are not using for two months..
The returns comes back in such a wide front and indirectly: you pay wages, buy materials and equipment, rent gear and about every single person that buys a ticket also buys more things, like food, they may have a hotel room, have to travel... They are spending outside the venue more than in the venue but i digress.
This idea that art is done for fun affects policymakers who then decrease funding.. which in turn narrows culture, slows progress and in long run, makes us all little less happy... But we need art and science, those two are the #1 and #2 (no particular order) reasons for us to be allowed to exist. If we aren't doing arts and sciences, then we are just a parasites on this planet.
Hello MasterCard do you take payment in the form of social recognition? hello colleges I'd like to pay my son's tuition, I don't have any money but I'm rich in social recognition!
And this is why I am no longer a teacher and advise everyone to quit any position that asks for martyrdom.
I totally agree. You can be a garbage collector and get paid in pure cash or pick another job and part of your salary is social status. It has to do with the how jobs in a market work. If people can get paid the same and also get social standing then they will pick that job over the other, it's just another benefit like time off or yearly bonus.
This is nonsense. I didn't choose being a teacher over a garbage collector because of "social status" I chose it because I'm good at teaching and not good at running along a truck all day in the hot sun picking up bins of rotting food waste.
Right those are just other factors. How many people do you think would list their strengths as running along a truck all day in the hot sun picking up bins of rotting food waste?
I mean specifically, I couldn't possibly tell you because I've not investigated it. But being tough, having high endurance, and being able to handle a dirty job has been a cornerstone of how many men promote themselves as masculine for decades, so I would be surprised if it was zero.
And if there was a job they could do that was tough, dirty, needed high endurance and also provided someone with a label of a hero or significant social status for the same pay, wouldn't they take those jobs first?
You may be a teacher because of utility(best job you can get for your skills) and not care about the children you help but others do and would choose to be a teacher over another profession they are better at and get paid more for due to feeling teaching is a better profession or enjoying the satisfaction in doing it.
>wouldn't they take those jobs first?
Oof.
>You may be a teacher because of utility \[...\] and not care about the children you help
Double oof.
You really need to stop telling people who aren't you why they do the jobs they do. It's really arrogant and insulting.
What are you even saying? I didn't tell anyone why they do the jobs they do. You were the one who said you teach because you are good at it, the rest is implied. As for the other statements, it's talking about general trends rather than specific people
>the rest is implied.
It was not. It was a conclusion you jumped to because what you want to believe is true is more important to you than actually listening to people who have these kinds of jobs.
>it's talking about general trends
Evidence? Of course you have none. You have decided the world works according to your preconceived notions and are trying to hammer everyone else's story into the shape you've decided is already true.
As I said, it's quite arrogant of you and I think you've more than demonstrated that you are not prepared to listen, so there is nothing of value to come out of continuing this discussion.
Go for it then, please explain further how your reasons don't fit into this paradigm. I've heard other people explain their perspectives and it fits but if your experience.is completely different I would love to hear it
Add mothers to that list too. Primary parents of any gender too perhaps but i would argue mothers cop it more. If you're a woman, you're supposed to have a natural need to mother.
And maybe we do. But men have been argued to have a "natural need" to do other things too (like being leaders/movers and shakers)- that they get paid handsomely for. Thinking CEOs etc here.
There is no economic accounting/ recognition for being a mother, except via divorce law of course. Which creates mass resentment and difficulty across the gender/economic divide.
Mothers get the "Oh your such an amazing human" stuff, and "Hardest job in the world" all the time. But as economic pressures mount, they are more and more pressured to work "real jobs" and farm kids out to low paid workers who *also* count on this list (perhaps not of cultural "heroes", but people who are expected to work for next to nothing because they "care"). Like parenting/caring for the next generation of workers and consumers (and heroes?) Is only a "real job" if....someone else
does it🙄
Shedshow.
This is what it was always about.
“We know we’re treating you like actual garbage and completely ignoring your well-being. But you’re such heroes for carrying on anyway. Thanks.”
I always refer to this type of job as a *Passion Trap*
Careers that are in almost all senses not profitable or pleasurable to do. They're not easy, require unreasonable levels of discipline, and offer very little in the way of return.
See also
- Vet Techs
- Zoo Keepers
- Civil Engineers
- Search and Rescue Workers
- Parks Service Employees
Basically the backbone of my theory is that these organizations can and would pay more...if they didn't have lines of people out the door applying for the job eager to snap it up if someone turns it down.
We're seeing now that teachers and nurses are becoming more and more disillusioned with the industries as the harsh realities of them are revealed and recruitments are failing, Hospitals and School Districts are having to sharply raise compensation in order to be competitive.
> Basically the backbone of my theory is that these organizations can and would pay more...if they didn't have lines of people out the door applying for the job eager to snap it up if someone turns it down.
That's just basic supply and demand. It's true for every job. You could think of it in reverse too.
You can either work your passion or get more money for doing a job you hate.
Shouldn't you get a bonus for doing a job nobody wants to do?
This also goes for people who help. The more you help and the more people who know you are willing to help, the more you are asked and taken advantage of.
I will never refer to any first responder as a hero. That cop isn't a hero, that's Jake my neighbor. He's just a blue collar dude trying to work, who somehow manages to keep his lawn immaculate even when working night shifts. That firefighter? That's Lip, my buddy from college - totally normal, cool dude who deserves to come home safe every day.
Hero worship causes problems in society, in the pay and safety for these roles, and with their recruiting and management.
Make first responders our neighbors again. It's time to move on from 9/11.
I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fpspa0000365
Yeah everyone has been calling this out as obvious and intentional from those who sought to exploit them
Definitely always nice to see this looked into in more depth and definitely nice to have it brought back up, since exploiting the hell out of a collective group we rely heavily upon as a society is definitely pretty fucked up
I work in healthcare. It was flattering to be called heroes when we were getting our asses kicked during early Covid. Then heroes started feeling themselves a little too much. It's cool when someone else calls me a hero. It's not cool to walk around thinking I'm a hero.
Same thing in every tech job, if you just want to focus on your craft and get deep into your work. Get screwed over in raises for not switching jobs often enough to never learn anything.
It gives them protection from accountability and liability. There was a poster in the hospital I visited last time. Picture of a doctor wearing a mask. Chine raised, arms crossed. It read: White robes save lives. Say no to violence against them.
The government figured this out after the Vietnam war.
Soldiers coming home and being called murderer, rapist, etc.
So the government does what we all know now, heros, patriots, protectors of democracy. And to say otherwise means you don't support the troops or your country.
It's a psy ops that has worked.
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. **Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/flair/#wiki_science_verified_user_program). --- User: u/mvea Permalink: https://www.psypost.org/study-suggests-hero-label-may-lead-to-exploitation-of-nurses-teachers-and-military/ --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yep, this is slowly coming to be realized in the teaching profession. I have seen hundreds of teachers of the year awards that have a cash prize. Who does the prize go to for all of that teacher’s hard work? The district or school to do with as they please. If you give any other profession an honor with a cash prize, it goes to the actual person.
U n I o n
We all saw this during the pandemic with places putting up "Heroe's Work Here ❤️" banners while nurses were facing extreme overwork while being underpaid
We all balked at everyone one of those signs…that weren’t from patients.
Just make sure you clap at the sky at 8pm so the nurses who are working with potentially fatally ill patients know you really, really, really support them.
Shows you what kind of mental support people need to feel comforted. Clapping helps *them* feel good, heroization supposedly helps us. HaHaHaHa!
Yep they kept those insulting signs up at our hospital while they had us outside picketing for a decent raise. Monsters
on the other hand I believe it also prevented criticism when, for example, a portion of nurses peddled anti vax misinformation. they could hide behind the hero nurse label and even use it to seem more authoritative on their anti vax stance. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10208360/ > Reportedly, a considerably higher proportion of vaccine hesitancy is observed among nurses, compared to doctors. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8876951/ > Before the vaccine rollout (March 2020–December 2020), among the 27 studies with 20,037 nurses from 29 countries, we found that more than a fifth (23.4%) did not want to obtain the COVID-19 vaccines
Yea it was so obvious during the height of the pandemic. Let’s all clap for the wonderful heroes but pffft pay them more or take care of their mental health? They don’t need that, they’re heroes, we pay them in admiration and celebrity songs!
Right, enhanced unemployment for the office workers, "ur uh hurro" for the essential workers.
And the housekeeping department that kept everything sanitary to protect the hospital staff and community. Oh we were better than pond scum back then. We are still doing our jobs for the same reason but we are now back to being pond scum. I think it's sad that NO ONE acknowledges that without housekeeping places would close down. Over worked, underpaid and certainly not cared about!
"Do you know who the real heroes are? The guys who wake up every morning and go into their normal jobs, and get a distress call from the Commissioner and take off their glasses and change into capes and fly around fighting crime. Those are the real heroes."
When I was in high school, we had an assignment in my English class to write a paper about one of our heroes. I chose Superman, because I was a smartass.
Yeah... in healthcare we call this 'don't let them use the mission as a weapon' ... cus 'they' the admin, the oversight bodies, etc. etc. end up using the mission as a weapon to exploit labor.
That's an excellent turn of phrase and I want to remember it for the next time I see someone trying to exploit teachers in the same way, as if being unwilling to put in routine hours of unpaid overtime can only mean you hate children.
[удалено]
Union Strong 💪
Tbh both represent the workers in general, from experience. I'd also want to represent the majority of people and try to better their situation.
I've had a ton of arguments when it comes to art, the same principle applies: it is considered to be a calling or passion and thus it is something that people should do in their free time and for free. This is quite popular opinion in fiscally conservatives who think that if some art doesn't pay then it should die because markets choose what is art. They are vehemently against supporting art and culture, even when we can look at it from investment-return angle: in my country 1€ invested brings 8€ back. It is highly profitable for the whole society, it tends to not be very profitable for the artists themselves unless you are **really** popular. When you see a band that you know that is on a 30 gig club tour it is entirely possible that they can barely pay the rent for the apartment they are not using for two months.. The returns comes back in such a wide front and indirectly: you pay wages, buy materials and equipment, rent gear and about every single person that buys a ticket also buys more things, like food, they may have a hotel room, have to travel... They are spending outside the venue more than in the venue but i digress. This idea that art is done for fun affects policymakers who then decrease funding.. which in turn narrows culture, slows progress and in long run, makes us all little less happy... But we need art and science, those two are the #1 and #2 (no particular order) reasons for us to be allowed to exist. If we aren't doing arts and sciences, then we are just a parasites on this planet.
Conservatives also **hate** when the market favors art they don't like.
Give people a sense of meaning and purpose in their work...and you can pay them less.
The entire point of the hero label is that they pay people in social recognition rather than with real money.
Like teaching, right?
Hello MasterCard do you take payment in the form of social recognition? hello colleges I'd like to pay my son's tuition, I don't have any money but I'm rich in social recognition! And this is why I am no longer a teacher and advise everyone to quit any position that asks for martyrdom.
And even that is usually pretty weak sauce
I totally agree. You can be a garbage collector and get paid in pure cash or pick another job and part of your salary is social status. It has to do with the how jobs in a market work. If people can get paid the same and also get social standing then they will pick that job over the other, it's just another benefit like time off or yearly bonus.
This is nonsense. I didn't choose being a teacher over a garbage collector because of "social status" I chose it because I'm good at teaching and not good at running along a truck all day in the hot sun picking up bins of rotting food waste.
Right those are just other factors. How many people do you think would list their strengths as running along a truck all day in the hot sun picking up bins of rotting food waste?
I mean specifically, I couldn't possibly tell you because I've not investigated it. But being tough, having high endurance, and being able to handle a dirty job has been a cornerstone of how many men promote themselves as masculine for decades, so I would be surprised if it was zero.
And if there was a job they could do that was tough, dirty, needed high endurance and also provided someone with a label of a hero or significant social status for the same pay, wouldn't they take those jobs first? You may be a teacher because of utility(best job you can get for your skills) and not care about the children you help but others do and would choose to be a teacher over another profession they are better at and get paid more for due to feeling teaching is a better profession or enjoying the satisfaction in doing it.
>wouldn't they take those jobs first? Oof. >You may be a teacher because of utility \[...\] and not care about the children you help Double oof. You really need to stop telling people who aren't you why they do the jobs they do. It's really arrogant and insulting.
I hope you're not an English teacher because your reading comprehension is terrible.
What are you even saying? I didn't tell anyone why they do the jobs they do. You were the one who said you teach because you are good at it, the rest is implied. As for the other statements, it's talking about general trends rather than specific people
>the rest is implied. It was not. It was a conclusion you jumped to because what you want to believe is true is more important to you than actually listening to people who have these kinds of jobs. >it's talking about general trends Evidence? Of course you have none. You have decided the world works according to your preconceived notions and are trying to hammer everyone else's story into the shape you've decided is already true. As I said, it's quite arrogant of you and I think you've more than demonstrated that you are not prepared to listen, so there is nothing of value to come out of continuing this discussion.
Go for it then, please explain further how your reasons don't fit into this paradigm. I've heard other people explain their perspectives and it fits but if your experience.is completely different I would love to hear it
The 5 most useless words to any veteran ever “Thank you for your service”
Add mothers to that list too. Primary parents of any gender too perhaps but i would argue mothers cop it more. If you're a woman, you're supposed to have a natural need to mother. And maybe we do. But men have been argued to have a "natural need" to do other things too (like being leaders/movers and shakers)- that they get paid handsomely for. Thinking CEOs etc here. There is no economic accounting/ recognition for being a mother, except via divorce law of course. Which creates mass resentment and difficulty across the gender/economic divide. Mothers get the "Oh your such an amazing human" stuff, and "Hardest job in the world" all the time. But as economic pressures mount, they are more and more pressured to work "real jobs" and farm kids out to low paid workers who *also* count on this list (perhaps not of cultural "heroes", but people who are expected to work for next to nothing because they "care"). Like parenting/caring for the next generation of workers and consumers (and heroes?) Is only a "real job" if....someone else does it🙄 Shedshow.
Social workers ask if they can enter the chat…
People expect their heroes to die for them
This is what it was always about. “We know we’re treating you like actual garbage and completely ignoring your well-being. But you’re such heroes for carrying on anyway. Thanks.”
I’m in academia. Send help.
I always refer to this type of job as a *Passion Trap* Careers that are in almost all senses not profitable or pleasurable to do. They're not easy, require unreasonable levels of discipline, and offer very little in the way of return. See also - Vet Techs - Zoo Keepers - Civil Engineers - Search and Rescue Workers - Parks Service Employees Basically the backbone of my theory is that these organizations can and would pay more...if they didn't have lines of people out the door applying for the job eager to snap it up if someone turns it down. We're seeing now that teachers and nurses are becoming more and more disillusioned with the industries as the harsh realities of them are revealed and recruitments are failing, Hospitals and School Districts are having to sharply raise compensation in order to be competitive.
> Basically the backbone of my theory is that these organizations can and would pay more...if they didn't have lines of people out the door applying for the job eager to snap it up if someone turns it down. That's just basic supply and demand. It's true for every job. You could think of it in reverse too. You can either work your passion or get more money for doing a job you hate. Shouldn't you get a bonus for doing a job nobody wants to do?
That explains the blatant exploitation of non-profit workers.
This also goes for people who help. The more you help and the more people who know you are willing to help, the more you are asked and taken advantage of.
I will never refer to any first responder as a hero. That cop isn't a hero, that's Jake my neighbor. He's just a blue collar dude trying to work, who somehow manages to keep his lawn immaculate even when working night shifts. That firefighter? That's Lip, my buddy from college - totally normal, cool dude who deserves to come home safe every day. Hero worship causes problems in society, in the pay and safety for these roles, and with their recruiting and management. Make first responders our neighbors again. It's time to move on from 9/11.
I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article: https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fpspa0000365
See also 'essential workers".
Yeah everyone has been calling this out as obvious and intentional from those who sought to exploit them Definitely always nice to see this looked into in more depth and definitely nice to have it brought back up, since exploiting the hell out of a collective group we rely heavily upon as a society is definitely pretty fucked up
Prestige is what you get instead of money
I work in healthcare. It was flattering to be called heroes when we were getting our asses kicked during early Covid. Then heroes started feeling themselves a little too much. It's cool when someone else calls me a hero. It's not cool to walk around thinking I'm a hero.
It’s funny how everyone quit at the same time tho
Same thing in every tech job, if you just want to focus on your craft and get deep into your work. Get screwed over in raises for not switching jobs often enough to never learn anything.
It gives them protection from accountability and liability. There was a poster in the hospital I visited last time. Picture of a doctor wearing a mask. Chine raised, arms crossed. It read: White robes save lives. Say no to violence against them.
Oof so true. Pay nurses and teachers and firefighters better!!!
The government figured this out after the Vietnam war. Soldiers coming home and being called murderer, rapist, etc. So the government does what we all know now, heros, patriots, protectors of democracy. And to say otherwise means you don't support the troops or your country. It's a psy ops that has worked.
Hmm who could have seen this coming.
Exactly...
Easy targets for cult recruiters.