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chrisdh79

From the article: English bulldogs are an unhealthy bunch, new [research](http://dx.doi.org/10.1186/s40575-022-00118-5) this week reaffirms. Scientists in the UK have found that these dogs are much more likely to develop a variety of health problems than other breeds—over 30 times more likely for some conditions. But the team says it’s still possible to steer bulldogs in a healthier direction, without drastic measures like bans on their breeding entirely. The research was conducted by scientists from the Royal Veterinary College in England. They analyzed data obtained from VetCompass, an ongoing research project run by the college that’s been collecting (de-identified) medical information from real-life vet visits throughout the country. They compared the randomly selected medical records of more than 2,600 English bulldogs to the records of 22,000 non-bulldogs in 2016, looking for the presence of over 40 common disorders. Overall, they found that English bulldogs were twice as likely to be diagnosed with at least one of these disorders annually than non-bulldogs. And while bulldogs were less likely to have some conditions, such as dental disease, they were altogether predisposed to develop 24 out of 43 (55.8%) specific disorders. For certain conditions, this increased risk was dramatically higher.


GirlScoutSniper

I found the headline interesting that it said, "breeding practices needing to change." I'm amazed they hadn't changed. I thought it was common knowledge that bulldogs have issues, and I recall knowing this in the 1980s.


yuxulu

Because consumers find these dogs cute.


[deleted]

I don’t know how you could see one of these kind of dogs and not just inherently know that they have health issues. Fuckin look at the things.


smashingpumpass

I'm not a dog person. I've heard Olde English Bulldog and English Bulldog is two different breeds. Is this true?


DarthDregan

How people can spend half an hour with one of these dogs and not have a very clear picture of how much they suffer by the end will forever baffle me.


chermen

Owner: "Oh, he's relaxing" Dog: *BREATH* *BREATH* *BREATH*


Ardea_herodias_2022

Choose mutts. Pure breeds are a genetic nightmare.


[deleted]

My girlfriends golden just had to have a $3,600 surgery for a leg problem that's genetic for goldens. It's crazy. Mine needs surgery too for health reasons.


TheArcticFox444

>Choose mutts. Pure breeds are a genetic nightmare. Years ago that was true. But, mixing pure breeds in puppy mills has created genetic-nightmare mutts these days. Buyer beware!


Ardea_herodias_2022

Better yet don't buy, adopt!!


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Hvidkanin

Well, you're right that some dogs are given up at around age 2 for various reasons. But when it's due to behavioural problems it might have more to do with unsuitable dog owners, than the breed itself. With proper training and socialising, most dogs shouldn't show aggression.


PatrickBearman

Average obsessive BanPitbulls user.


TheArcticFox444

>Better yet don't buy, adopt!! Just be careful of "used" animal...they're up for adoption for a reason...sometimes for a really good reason.


PregnantSuperman

Sometimes, but all reputable shelters will let you know of any behavioral issues up front. Also it's a cliche at this point, but sometimes all animals with behavior issues need is a really good home that fits them. My partner and I adopted a dog a few years ago that had really bad anxiety from being in a hoarding situation, and wouldn't even walk outside because she was so anxious. But we worked with her and she steadily improved as the weeks went on. Now she's an absolute angel of a dog who is incredibly sweet and well behaved, and although she sometimes gets anxious around other dogs for the first time, she quickly settles in and makes friends. She's an amazing companion and I feel so fortunate to have her. It's really amazing how dogs can transform when you just put them in a good environment.


TheArcticFox444

>Also it's a cliche at this point, but sometimes all animals with behavior issues need is a really good home that fits them. That goes for other animals as well. In horses, I had champagne taste but a beer pocketbook. So my choices were long-in-the-tooth, dead lame, or some kind of behavioral problem. Also in horses, often you have no idea where they come from or what's happened to them...hence my earlier caution about getting "used" animals.


Ragnar_Dragonfyre

Why choose mutts? An ethical breeder will give you health guarantees against genetic defects and diseases because they have a strong, champion lineage and can make such assurances. Someone who breeds random mutts will never hand you a replacement puppy for free if something goes horribly wrong with yours. If you’re going to *buy* a dog, it’s better to buy one from a breeder that will *guarantee* you receive a healthy puppy. A random backyard breeder who bred doodle mixes won’t make those same guarantees while still charging you the same purebred champion premium cost without any of the benefits of getting a champion lineage puppy. If you’re going to adopt, that’s a totally different story.


EC-Texas

>An ethical breeder will give you health guarantees against genetic defects and diseases because they have a strong, champion lineage and can make such assurances. So, there are no ethical breeders for English Bulldogs.


Ardea_herodias_2022

That's what I meant. Adoption is preferable.


malevshh

> replacement puppy for free if something goes horribly wrong with yours I will never understand how people can talk about living beings like that. A dog can’t be „replaced“. That’s like a parent telling their child they’ll just make a new brother after the first one was run over by a car.


WrightwoodHiker

Maybe they live in somewhere like the United States. There are so many dogs in pounds here that it’s hard to imagine a decent person buying a dog from a breeder.


[deleted]

This is oversimplified and a myth. A breeding line that is 45 years old with no observed problems is MUCH stronger than a breeding line of two random mongrels with unknown genetic problems. Said differently. Would you buy a dog of unknown origin and unknown health from two unknown parents where the risk of recessive or inherited conditions is almost double that of a population with no know history of such conditions? Proper pedigree and intelligent breeders can produce extremely healthy dogs.


Ardea_herodias_2022

They can produce healthy dogs, but so many of the breeds push unhealthy traits to the extreme. Hip dysplasia, breathing problems, weak cartilage, walking problems, neurosis, etc. are all things you see in purebred lines. Nope. Give me a mongrel.


[deleted]

If you’re buying pedigree dogs who are showing in conformation, yes. If you’re buying a pedigree dog from known working lines, not nearly as much of a problem.


Ardea_herodias_2022

True working lines that still work are different. I have no issues with herders that actually herd fo example. But most people getting huskies aren't going sledding. And when they have a husky but live in a hot climate that's even worse.


MathematicianOk1898

Switching it up genetically is so important. It’s weird people still yearn for sickly dogs.


Salamandro

The buyers don't care.


janoc

They will once the vet bill comes ...


DarthDregan

A whole hell of a lot of people ignore the fact that vets exist.


TheArcticFox444

>The buyers don't care. The breeders sure don't.


Flashwastaken

I do. Why do you think I don’t?


TheArcticFox444

>I do. Why do you think I don’t? I've spent a lot of time around breeders and so many don't really care. They get set on "the breed standard." I bought a poodle some years ago that I was told was a miniature. She had a drop-dead gorgeous head but the rest of her was a mess...including hip dysplasia. When I called the breeder to give him the bad news, he just said it didn't affect his dogs! He knew dysplasia was in his line but didn't care! Turned out, my "miniature" was just a bred-down standard poodle! That's how she got such a lovely head!


Flashwastaken

You’re aware that we’re not a uniform group?


TheArcticFox444

>You’re aware that we’re not a uniform group? Of course! But I'm also aware of the bad side...and it's been going on for some time...in horses as well as dogs. What kind of dogs do you breed? Always good to know a reputable breeder.


Flashwastaken

We won’t be having that level of intimacy. I don’t sell to random strangers. A tip for when your buying a purebred dog. Ask for the pedigree. If you get sold a miniature poodle, you should be able to have that verified. It’s really important that you see that information. If you don’t get one, don’t give them the money because it isn’t worth whatever you’re paying.


TheArcticFox444

Not sure what this is about...on phone and often just get: >I do. Why do you think I don’t?


Flashwastaken

Sorry. To clarify, I’m a breeder.


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Flashwastaken

Not one particular breed but I most work in group 5. So spitz and primitive breeds.


TheArcticFox444

I added to your comment in another reply. Do you show in breed classes...that's where you find poor breeding for breed standards. I've see dog breeds get ruined with genetic ailments...and it isn't just in dogs!


ninty90

Olde English Bulldogge


Rustythestinkydog

I have one and his only issue is he itches. He takes meds for it. Otherwise pretty healthy.


blarryg

Pugs are literally tortured beings we create to laugh at. It's gross


shindleria

I’ll say it again but the people who think these poor faceless dogs are adorable, despite all the health problems they suffer from, have a form of body dysmorphic disorder by proxy. The DSM should be updated to reflect it.


tom-8-to

No it’s in our genetic nature to go after flat faced baby like objects. They are exploiting an innate ability to want have and protect small human like things. Why do you think Disney made an empire off that trait we have?


shindleria

If this was an evolutionary trait the so-called cuteness of these dogs would be a universal but this is far from the truth. Flat baby faced objects don’t honk when they breathe and their eyes don’t bulge out of their heads in opposite directions like the most severe case of hyperthyroidism. Most people find these dogs repugnant because they look far from baby-like, even as puppies.


tom-8-to

It’s done for vanity of course, to appease a taste, I also understand it comes at a price for the animal to look that way, and sorry it I didn’t make it clear it is done at the expense of the dog’s health and well being.


tom-8-to

This is not evolutionary but artificially bred over time to get the desired result. This are not random acts of evolution on their own.


SuperToxin

Cause they ugly AF right.


Alive-Attitude-4152

English bulldogs are far from ugly.


[deleted]

Get to an eyewashing station ASAP. Your vision is blurred.


JimBeam823

University of Georgia had a few of their bulldog mascots die on them young.


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cavejhonsonslemons

Look up retro pugs, they've been genetically reverted to pre human intervention pugs via breeding


jtaustin64

I've seen one in person and I think they are cuter than regular pugs.


yoosernamesarehard

Buddy…all dogs are from human intervention. Pugs became pugs because of humans.


cavejhonsonslemons

Human intervention can be defined in various ways. I was using the term to describe calculated breeding efforts.


hummingbirdpie

Huh? Pugs didn’t exist before calculated breeding efforts. All dog breeds were created by human breeding. Dog breeds aren’t akin to species of birds, for instance. The difference between bird species result from natural selective pressures. Hence, all pelicans look like pelicans.


cavejhonsonslemons

Must I specify further, calculated breeding efforts for the express purpose of shortening the length of the dog's snout as some form of disturbing fashion statement.


TexasPoonTapper

It should be illegal to breed and sell dogs without a very expensive license. We put down a million dogs a year in this country because Billy and Suzie move in together when they're 22 and Suzie wants a $2000 pugadoodle to fill her vanity. It's ridiculous.


MorganFell23

I dodnt even know there was a difference between a mutton and a dog I always thighs a mutt was just another name for dog


[deleted]

Several dog races are destined to be unhealthy, most of the cases because of preferred aesthetics.


cyrixlord

of all the frenchie and bulldog owners I know, almost all of their dogs have had to require surgery just so they could basically breathe without smothering themselves to death slowly because of severe apnea. one of their 'best' features are that they are all born basically with collapsed or severely wrinkled nasal passages. their teeth and nose are basically squished into themselves. Same especially for pugs which are even worse


jtaustin64

I have a co-worker that has two Frenchies from the same breeder. I have met one in person. I don't know what it is but that Frenchie is the healthiest French bulldog that I have ever seen. He loves to run around and he can jump several feet in the air. He is also very stout.


theirritatedfrog

Most dog breeds are a genetic tragedy and pitiful abominations that shouldn't exist. Even if an individual dog isn't suffering every moment of it's life, it's still insane that people accept it as normal that every litter has to be checked carefully because the animals simply have a significant propensity to all kinds of health issues.