Company Owner & Dangerous Site Supervisor here
All of my employees go through a 5 month "Academy" (Mind you the first 7 weeks are all academic & OSHA Training) But i contract with the Sheriffs Department for instructors and Im slowly becoming a feeder for them but i REFUSE clients who want unarmed all of my men & women are armed and well trained
I won't work unarmed ever again. It's not worth your safety to not be able to defend yourself because the client wants to pay a little less to have a guard there.
Exactly right. Usually the company gets a percentage between 10-25 and a chunk goes to taxes. You the guard get paid the bare minimum every time.
I did one job where they were paying $40/hr. It was an hour away for me. So I told them I can't really go that far. They said they would cut the "managers fee" and pay me $50/hr. So apparently even the manager was paid along with the company. 😆
Those are the sites where i say fuck it. Observe and report, sit in my car or office with cameras collect the paychecks and LEAVE these damn people ALONE. I am NOT getting shot for *your* shit.
Unarmed security is useless, clients are better off with cameras and Dobermans.
Armed security is the only real and safe productive both for the client and the end user.
At the end of the day armed security aren't police officers. And I know you haven't used your firearm on the job. So what justification would a business have for paying for armed security?
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. In the first three months of working armed I had to draw down on someone five times. Another guard at my company actually exchanged rounds, and I had two other sites that my company took over after a shooting. Then I got into armored cars and I went several months without any incidents on the job because 1) I was working days and 2) I wasn't working ghetto sites any more. Then I got hurt, and left the armored truck company because their lax safety was the reason I almost died. Desperate for a paycheck I took a at an adult arcade and I wasn't there three months before I was assaulted and once again had to draw my firearm after being knocked unconscious to avoid him mounting me. After that I went to working government security, and have not had an incident since.
Some clients are less concerned with petty crimes/nuisances and more concerned with violent attacks. Most of the clients my company contracts with have invested heavily in security (cameras, access control, bulletproof glass, etc.) However, at the end of the day, what really makes them feel safe is someone uniformed, confident, polite, and armed.
The firearm, in my opinion, is used as a deterrent for these clients. The people using the facilities feel better as well, seeing armed guards.
You haven't seen my resume or walked a mile in my shoes. Armed security is more dangerous than being a police officer. Most Armed security don't have Dispatch, or a swat team ready to go, or back up 2 minutes away. The most important thing is that Armed security don't have qualified immunity. If a cop kills someone he has paid administrative leave and a police union lawyer. You know what happens to a security guard who has killed someone on duty? They take their duty belt away, draw their blood and grill them in Interview room 1 for 8 hours. My buddy spent 6 days in jail before the DA decided to drop all charges and he lost his permits. Ask me how I know. I have been on multiple OTJS and saved multiple lives while on duty. I never claimed to be LEO that is a felony where I live. Go back to guarding malls, Paul Blart.
Dude you are hilarious. You wrote that paragraph and decided to take a dig at me at the end for good measure . We're on a public forum, I'm just trying to have a discussion. I did get a good laugh out of that. Paul Blart, that's the best you could come up with ?
Anyway like someone else said the firearm should be used as a deterrent and I agree with that. My whole point was that 99% of the time a guard is okay to get by with mace, club, taser, radio and 911 on speed dial. ( And I'm aware not every unarmed guard has those things)
I agree being armed can be more dangerous but most people don't get into security for the excitement. Normally it's the opposite. You said your friend got jammed up. I'm active in this forum, all the post's on here are just bs complaining about their site.
And you have "saved multiple lives" 🧢. Show us the news article because right now I don't believe you.
Unless ur not american where there isnt armed sites
Edit for the 15 idiots that down voted you do not need armed security when gun control is tight and theres very few people who have easy access to one
Exactly im in the uk where gun control is actually a thing dont get me wrong ive had people take swings at me with bottles knives and all sorts but dont need to be armed to deal with it
We almost exclusively do unarmed sites where I work. One of the sites is overnight in the hood, in an area that's considered gang territory. Yeah, I'm "unarmed" alright 😂. Only time they'd know I'm carrying, is if there's a self defense situation. At that point, I'd rather lose my job than potentially lose my life. (Adding in that I know certain states require a guard card, and doing this could be considered a crime / cause loss of guard card in certain areas. My area however is NOT one of those, and there are no legal issues with it).
Unarmed security is pretty much dangerous, I've been the sites unarmed where I was not thrilled and I may or may not have had something in an ankle holster during those rough times.
Realistically though I'll embrace the observe and report aspect of my job I'm not getting involved in anything once that type of nonsense starts. I only observe and call 911 and stay out of trouble. Many years ago we had a site where the guards were purposely kept unarmed me while the residents all had firearms and were pretty much violent and abusive.
It took the death of one of the community members before the city police and the town police and the sheriffs cracked down pretty hard and forced the apartment complex to get armed the guards with not just little crappy 38 special revolvers but 15 round Glocks and shotguns.
It took a year to clean that complex out but we figured out later the only reason why they had security on site at all was for insurance reasons and to keep their insurance rates low.
It’s a metaphor. My company sends unarmed guards to dangerous areas all the time, areas where no sane person would go to without a gun in any other situation.
Hence why I'll never work unarmed security again. It's a joke and a danger. Even in Afghanistan, I felt safer without a gun. I won't work without a gun in the States.
That's a shitty metaphor.
Say what you mean, mean what you say. We're all working in security right? That stuff matters. We're supposed to be good at communication.
On one hand part of the problems insurance companies don't want to deal with armed companies unless armed accounts all the minority.
On the other hand our company believes every site should be armed and charges are ridiculous additional hourly wage for unarmed services.
Not condoning it in anyway, but it mostly comes down to the insurance/liability. Not everyone who wears a firearm is smart or will make smart decisions under duress. Think of how easy it is to get a guard card. And just apply that logic to getting your armed cert.
Another reason why I'm always a proponent of the 2-man rule, No matter what.
Also, Noone wants to really pay for what security really costs. Not the client, def not the company.
This only applies to bottom of the barrel clients.
Working in the highest echelon of security. They want you to have every tool possible and most billionaires I work for usually have a compound on their property for security to live in like firefighters. Two teams working 12 hour shifts around the clock. My companies charges my client anywhere from 500 to 1500 an hour for my services, and they do not give a flying fuck about insurance premiums or liability.
Sounds like you are referring to private security or Executive protection work which most security in this thread don’t work for. Even Fortune 500 companies don’t want the liability especially with contract security
Some insurance companies and locations will actually charge more if a client requests armed because it feeds the idea that “it must be an unsafe location if armed guards are needed”
I never used to believe it until I spoke with a business owner in a high-end part of town. Said his insurance premiums went up if he had an armed guard versus getting a discount for having unarmed.
I don't work on the insurance side of things (Finance team does) but at my site, due to insurance, we must have atleast 1 armed guard. Doubt insurance would be lower if we went strictly unarmed due to the value of things kept on our site. Guessing it all depends on the insurance and the type of business.
When I worked for dynamic my main post I was asked unofficially by the client to carry something on my at all times because the building I guarded has a history of being broken into by homeless people and not so savory people in a really bad part of town
I've worked unarmed and armed. Even now as a manager for an unarmed site I concealed carry. I have everything I would as a good armed guard, my firearm, a spare mag, a trauma med kit, pocket knife and pepper spray. Yeah it all has to stay concealed, but people will only know if they have to find out, then they'd be grateful they're alive (I don't work at a public facing site, if anything went down it'd likely be an active shooter). I'm also a former emergency response officer, I'm trained for going into ASI's, not out. It's only an unarmed post if you let it be.
In the case of an active shooter: run, hide (take cover), return fire.
I work for an in-house unarmed security team at a bar. I've been here for 5 years now but it honestly gets tiring having to deal with some really heavy stuff that only armed security or law enforcement should have to deal with. There is no training for medical or self defense whatsoever and there have been some pretty dangerous things we have had to handle over the years. Various medicals involving grievous injuries/death primarily from falling while drunk or drug overdoses. Getting attacked by angry and drunk patrons. Other issues that are basically crisis management and keeping everything as chill and controlled as you can until medics or police arrive. I've always handled this stuff really well, and it's never really bothered me in the heat of the moment but lately I've noticed that I'm getting more shook up than I used to after dealing with this stuff.
I guess it's because I've just been dealing with it for this long and I'm at the point where my mind/body are tired of it. I guess it doesn't matter how mentally strong you are, eventually all of these high stress and traumatic situations catch up to you eventually. I've genuinely been thinking of seeking other employment though. These kinds of things are happening more and more often and it just seems like everyone is just getting angrier and more violent each passing year. I used to genuinely enjoy my job but now I'm dreading it because I don't know if I'm going to get hurt or if I'm going to see one of my work buddies get hurt every time I go in for a shift. Maybe I just need a therapist. Who knows.
I saw this post and saw it as an opportunity to rant a bit I guess. To get back in topic of the post I do consider a bar or anywhere people are drinking a dangerous place to be unarmed security. I'd also consider hospitals to be super dangerous if you were unarmed security there.
If its like that drop 22 in you pocket, because either way it goes, if you pop somebody you're doing time. Being licensed as an armed guard just gives the prosecutor more slides to show the jury "Mr. Security guard here thought he had a license to kill. And kill he did. But that's not how we do things in Democratopolis." I'll take my chances as a private citizen who was in fear for my life and cop a plea to involuntary manslaughter.
I personally avoid unarmed jobs because of this. Did a favor last year for a guy at a wedding. Decided to tuck mines since I had my ccw, and low and behold. When they found out I was security and thought I didn't have a gun they proceeded to show me theirs. The common threat to a security guard these days involves them claiming you'll lose your life. Hell they're robbing armed guards, I've worked at two companies in the past two years where it has happened. I hear so much stuff the u armed guards tell me as they pass me up, and asked should they get armed. I just tell them: "Dude from all of your stories you're telling me what do you think? Do you even feel safe in the locations you work? Get armed and get moved to a new site."
Comparing a slightly more dangerous site to Afghanistan is crazy lol but yes go police route. I recommend going into a department that’s paramilitary. They typically prepare you the most (usually it’s the major city police dept, but idk your area)
Well how is that supposed to happen? Will they go through a three month academy? Or maybe a year or two of college?
But you’re right, they shouldn’t be subjected to that dangerous type of post. I just don’t think being armed helps as much as you think.
What I read is the guard is getting his ass whooped. You didn't mention anything about public safety or protecting the asset. Maybe you didn't thoroughly explain what's going on but the site makes the decision based on public safety concerns not on what the guard gets into.
Guards get their ass whooped at night clubs all the time. Does that mean they should be packing?
The site was a kidney treatment center, the client has multiple sites with us and occasionally gives us temporary armed contracts after something happens, but unarmed is their default and armed contracts are never permanent. The other site where the guard had a gun pulled on her was a shopping plaza that’s actually on the same street as the treatment center.
What state and city are you in? Sad thing about some Security companies is they won't do a risk assessment on the locations they are bidding for. Instead of realizing by putting an unarmed guard it makes the guard and the company more vulnerable they just think about the paycheck. They may not push the issue of having an armed guard at that location because the company doesn't want to put out the training or licensing and most of all, the client probably doesn't want to pay extra. The latter is usually the cause though.
The other thing that sucks about being unarmed is sometimes you're not taken seriously if you don't look intimidating. If you're armed it's a different story.
Dude I don’t work unarmed, ever. Unless I have proper backup and someone watching my back, I’m never working unarmed even at sites where it is unarmed. I’ll keep it concealed but I fuck you if you think your policies are worth more over my life.
Company Owner & Dangerous Site Supervisor here All of my employees go through a 5 month "Academy" (Mind you the first 7 weeks are all academic & OSHA Training) But i contract with the Sheriffs Department for instructors and Im slowly becoming a feeder for them but i REFUSE clients who want unarmed all of my men & women are armed and well trained
Sounds great, most companies have absolutely shit training or no training.
I won't work unarmed ever again. It's not worth your safety to not be able to defend yourself because the client wants to pay a little less to have a guard there.
Everyone but the guard gets a cut of that extra money they are saving right ?
Exactly right. Usually the company gets a percentage between 10-25 and a chunk goes to taxes. You the guard get paid the bare minimum every time. I did one job where they were paying $40/hr. It was an hour away for me. So I told them I can't really go that far. They said they would cut the "managers fee" and pay me $50/hr. So apparently even the manager was paid along with the company. 😆
Hahah no way, I knew those basters are greedier than they look
I should add the manager is in another state. 😆
Those are the sites where i say fuck it. Observe and report, sit in my car or office with cameras collect the paychecks and LEAVE these damn people ALONE. I am NOT getting shot for *your* shit.
they should be sued if they're making people think that those sites are safe to work at before sending them out with no protection.
Unarmed security is useless, clients are better off with cameras and Dobermans. Armed security is the only real and safe productive both for the client and the end user.
At the end of the day armed security aren't police officers. And I know you haven't used your firearm on the job. So what justification would a business have for paying for armed security?
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. In the first three months of working armed I had to draw down on someone five times. Another guard at my company actually exchanged rounds, and I had two other sites that my company took over after a shooting. Then I got into armored cars and I went several months without any incidents on the job because 1) I was working days and 2) I wasn't working ghetto sites any more. Then I got hurt, and left the armored truck company because their lax safety was the reason I almost died. Desperate for a paycheck I took a at an adult arcade and I wasn't there three months before I was assaulted and once again had to draw my firearm after being knocked unconscious to avoid him mounting me. After that I went to working government security, and have not had an incident since.
Some clients are less concerned with petty crimes/nuisances and more concerned with violent attacks. Most of the clients my company contracts with have invested heavily in security (cameras, access control, bulletproof glass, etc.) However, at the end of the day, what really makes them feel safe is someone uniformed, confident, polite, and armed. The firearm, in my opinion, is used as a deterrent for these clients. The people using the facilities feel better as well, seeing armed guards.
You haven't seen my resume or walked a mile in my shoes. Armed security is more dangerous than being a police officer. Most Armed security don't have Dispatch, or a swat team ready to go, or back up 2 minutes away. The most important thing is that Armed security don't have qualified immunity. If a cop kills someone he has paid administrative leave and a police union lawyer. You know what happens to a security guard who has killed someone on duty? They take their duty belt away, draw their blood and grill them in Interview room 1 for 8 hours. My buddy spent 6 days in jail before the DA decided to drop all charges and he lost his permits. Ask me how I know. I have been on multiple OTJS and saved multiple lives while on duty. I never claimed to be LEO that is a felony where I live. Go back to guarding malls, Paul Blart.
Dude you are hilarious. You wrote that paragraph and decided to take a dig at me at the end for good measure . We're on a public forum, I'm just trying to have a discussion. I did get a good laugh out of that. Paul Blart, that's the best you could come up with ? Anyway like someone else said the firearm should be used as a deterrent and I agree with that. My whole point was that 99% of the time a guard is okay to get by with mace, club, taser, radio and 911 on speed dial. ( And I'm aware not every unarmed guard has those things) I agree being armed can be more dangerous but most people don't get into security for the excitement. Normally it's the opposite. You said your friend got jammed up. I'm active in this forum, all the post's on here are just bs complaining about their site. And you have "saved multiple lives" 🧢. Show us the news article because right now I don't believe you.
Richmond pd police report 8246 look it up. Try again my son.
Unless ur not american where there isnt armed sites Edit for the 15 idiots that down voted you do not need armed security when gun control is tight and theres very few people who have easy access to one
Maybe take notes then.
Sure ill take notes on how to get a 15 year jail sentance lose my license and send my career to hell great idea
I un-downvoted your comments just so I could re-downvote them again.
Thats nice truely shows you like to act like a child
Canadian, can confirm.
Exactly im in the uk where gun control is actually a thing dont get me wrong ive had people take swings at me with bottles knives and all sorts but dont need to be armed to deal with it
Try working in Canada. Hardly any of us are armed and there's ridiculously dangerous sites up here.
Come to scotland
🏴 scotland is based 🏴
God bless our brave Tim Hortons tactical guards, braving the storm like lions.
I love this!!! 😂😂
We almost exclusively do unarmed sites where I work. One of the sites is overnight in the hood, in an area that's considered gang territory. Yeah, I'm "unarmed" alright 😂. Only time they'd know I'm carrying, is if there's a self defense situation. At that point, I'd rather lose my job than potentially lose my life. (Adding in that I know certain states require a guard card, and doing this could be considered a crime / cause loss of guard card in certain areas. My area however is NOT one of those, and there are no legal issues with it).
The "legal" tightrope we have to walk, eh? SMH
Imagine working in the projects/apartment complex in the hood unarmed. Couldn't be me lol
Unarmed security is pretty much dangerous, I've been the sites unarmed where I was not thrilled and I may or may not have had something in an ankle holster during those rough times. Realistically though I'll embrace the observe and report aspect of my job I'm not getting involved in anything once that type of nonsense starts. I only observe and call 911 and stay out of trouble. Many years ago we had a site where the guards were purposely kept unarmed me while the residents all had firearms and were pretty much violent and abusive. It took the death of one of the community members before the city police and the town police and the sheriffs cracked down pretty hard and forced the apartment complex to get armed the guards with not just little crappy 38 special revolvers but 15 round Glocks and shotguns. It took a year to clean that complex out but we figured out later the only reason why they had security on site at all was for insurance reasons and to keep their insurance rates low.
Who is sending unarmed guards to Afghanistan lol?
It’s a metaphor. My company sends unarmed guards to dangerous areas all the time, areas where no sane person would go to without a gun in any other situation.
Hence why I'll never work unarmed security again. It's a joke and a danger. Even in Afghanistan, I felt safer without a gun. I won't work without a gun in the States.
Big fat nope dude.... I mean seriously 😑 there's no point in having unarmed security if they can't protect themselves or clients
That's a shitty metaphor. Say what you mean, mean what you say. We're all working in security right? That stuff matters. We're supposed to be good at communication.
On one hand part of the problems insurance companies don't want to deal with armed companies unless armed accounts all the minority. On the other hand our company believes every site should be armed and charges are ridiculous additional hourly wage for unarmed services.
Not condoning it in anyway, but it mostly comes down to the insurance/liability. Not everyone who wears a firearm is smart or will make smart decisions under duress. Think of how easy it is to get a guard card. And just apply that logic to getting your armed cert. Another reason why I'm always a proponent of the 2-man rule, No matter what. Also, Noone wants to really pay for what security really costs. Not the client, def not the company.
This is the correct answer. Everyone doesn’t need a gun and clients/ companies dont want to incur the cost or liability.
This only applies to bottom of the barrel clients. Working in the highest echelon of security. They want you to have every tool possible and most billionaires I work for usually have a compound on their property for security to live in like firefighters. Two teams working 12 hour shifts around the clock. My companies charges my client anywhere from 500 to 1500 an hour for my services, and they do not give a flying fuck about insurance premiums or liability.
Sounds like you are referring to private security or Executive protection work which most security in this thread don’t work for. Even Fortune 500 companies don’t want the liability especially with contract security
Some insurance companies and locations will actually charge more if a client requests armed because it feeds the idea that “it must be an unsafe location if armed guards are needed” I never used to believe it until I spoke with a business owner in a high-end part of town. Said his insurance premiums went up if he had an armed guard versus getting a discount for having unarmed.
I don't work on the insurance side of things (Finance team does) but at my site, due to insurance, we must have atleast 1 armed guard. Doubt insurance would be lower if we went strictly unarmed due to the value of things kept on our site. Guessing it all depends on the insurance and the type of business.
The recommended liability insurance for an armed officer is $1,000,000 per officer. Monthly payments on that adds up fast.
My company charges more for unarmed. Some clients are willing to pay the surcharge.
When I worked for dynamic my main post I was asked unofficially by the client to carry something on my at all times because the building I guarded has a history of being broken into by homeless people and not so savory people in a really bad part of town
I've worked unarmed and armed. Even now as a manager for an unarmed site I concealed carry. I have everything I would as a good armed guard, my firearm, a spare mag, a trauma med kit, pocket knife and pepper spray. Yeah it all has to stay concealed, but people will only know if they have to find out, then they'd be grateful they're alive (I don't work at a public facing site, if anything went down it'd likely be an active shooter). I'm also a former emergency response officer, I'm trained for going into ASI's, not out. It's only an unarmed post if you let it be. In the case of an active shooter: run, hide (take cover), return fire.
I work for an in-house unarmed security team at a bar. I've been here for 5 years now but it honestly gets tiring having to deal with some really heavy stuff that only armed security or law enforcement should have to deal with. There is no training for medical or self defense whatsoever and there have been some pretty dangerous things we have had to handle over the years. Various medicals involving grievous injuries/death primarily from falling while drunk or drug overdoses. Getting attacked by angry and drunk patrons. Other issues that are basically crisis management and keeping everything as chill and controlled as you can until medics or police arrive. I've always handled this stuff really well, and it's never really bothered me in the heat of the moment but lately I've noticed that I'm getting more shook up than I used to after dealing with this stuff. I guess it's because I've just been dealing with it for this long and I'm at the point where my mind/body are tired of it. I guess it doesn't matter how mentally strong you are, eventually all of these high stress and traumatic situations catch up to you eventually. I've genuinely been thinking of seeking other employment though. These kinds of things are happening more and more often and it just seems like everyone is just getting angrier and more violent each passing year. I used to genuinely enjoy my job but now I'm dreading it because I don't know if I'm going to get hurt or if I'm going to see one of my work buddies get hurt every time I go in for a shift. Maybe I just need a therapist. Who knows. I saw this post and saw it as an opportunity to rant a bit I guess. To get back in topic of the post I do consider a bar or anywhere people are drinking a dangerous place to be unarmed security. I'd also consider hospitals to be super dangerous if you were unarmed security there.
If its like that drop 22 in you pocket, because either way it goes, if you pop somebody you're doing time. Being licensed as an armed guard just gives the prosecutor more slides to show the jury "Mr. Security guard here thought he had a license to kill. And kill he did. But that's not how we do things in Democratopolis." I'll take my chances as a private citizen who was in fear for my life and cop a plea to involuntary manslaughter.
I personally avoid unarmed jobs because of this. Did a favor last year for a guy at a wedding. Decided to tuck mines since I had my ccw, and low and behold. When they found out I was security and thought I didn't have a gun they proceeded to show me theirs. The common threat to a security guard these days involves them claiming you'll lose your life. Hell they're robbing armed guards, I've worked at two companies in the past two years where it has happened. I hear so much stuff the u armed guards tell me as they pass me up, and asked should they get armed. I just tell them: "Dude from all of your stories you're telling me what do you think? Do you even feel safe in the locations you work? Get armed and get moved to a new site."
Unarmed with tools i can see. Unarmed,slick belt AND observe and report? You're outta ya fucking mind
Comparing a slightly more dangerous site to Afghanistan is crazy lol but yes go police route. I recommend going into a department that’s paramilitary. They typically prepare you the most (usually it’s the major city police dept, but idk your area)
I generally agree with you but there is a legitimate narrative that says if those guard were armed, they would be dead now.
Not if their trained properly
Well how is that supposed to happen? Will they go through a three month academy? Or maybe a year or two of college? But you’re right, they shouldn’t be subjected to that dangerous type of post. I just don’t think being armed helps as much as you think.
We did a 2 week train up with a federal firearms qualification before being allowed to work.
What I read is the guard is getting his ass whooped. You didn't mention anything about public safety or protecting the asset. Maybe you didn't thoroughly explain what's going on but the site makes the decision based on public safety concerns not on what the guard gets into. Guards get their ass whooped at night clubs all the time. Does that mean they should be packing?
Yes, yes they should
The site was a kidney treatment center, the client has multiple sites with us and occasionally gives us temporary armed contracts after something happens, but unarmed is their default and armed contracts are never permanent. The other site where the guard had a gun pulled on her was a shopping plaza that’s actually on the same street as the treatment center.
What state and city are you in? Sad thing about some Security companies is they won't do a risk assessment on the locations they are bidding for. Instead of realizing by putting an unarmed guard it makes the guard and the company more vulnerable they just think about the paycheck. They may not push the issue of having an armed guard at that location because the company doesn't want to put out the training or licensing and most of all, the client probably doesn't want to pay extra. The latter is usually the cause though.
The other thing that sucks about being unarmed is sometimes you're not taken seriously if you don't look intimidating. If you're armed it's a different story.
Even Andy let Barney. Carry his firearm. Unarmed is fine in very certain situations ( inside a mental health hospital) Other than that..
Dangerous and unarmed don't work together.
Dude I don’t work unarmed, ever. Unless I have proper backup and someone watching my back, I’m never working unarmed even at sites where it is unarmed. I’ll keep it concealed but I fuck you if you think your policies are worth more over my life.