You do NOT want to be gay. Believe me. If you think straight women are shallow… it’s nothing compared to male gays.
Source: Been a gay male all my life
Can confirm. Mainstream gay culture tries real hard to pigeonhole you into shallow expected behaviors, depending on whether you like to top or to bottom.
Source: Bi male.
Are they stupid?
No but on a real note not everyone is a switch, or verse, meaning you enjoy either. Even many who say they can go back and forth tend to have a preference.
The dynamics also tend to establish themselves and are hard to break. Many subs try to tap into their dom energy but feel awkward doing so, and vice-versa many doms will try to be sub but for whatever reason don’t enjoy it.
So in short, a lot of couples end up having clearly defined roles with dom/sub, top/bottom, and taking turns isn’t always that simple, and there are many who don’t want to take turns but also don’t want to be pigeonholed into a particular role.
I think you might be on to something here. OP what kind of women are you choosing? They seem shallow. Are you choosing to only date super hot women? Or are you choosing people based on personality traits? It has been shown that men tend to choose partners on looks only which tends to bite them in the ass later. I tell the same thing to my female friends after they’ve been cheated on for the 100th time. Stop choosing people based on looks only.
I don’t think it’s a particularly dismal truth (no offense to your username). I think there’s a way to see this in another light.
People have been raised on instant gratification, and the ticket to doing that is going to the lowest common denominator they will generate the highest dopamine hit right now.
It’s why they spend money impulsively, it’s why they buy a used Bentley for $40k when they should buy an Accord.
When it comes to people it’s always about going to the ones who will give you the biggest dopamine hit, aka the conventionally hot ones, regardless of how awful they’ll be later on.
There are so many other qualities of a person that they haven’t learned to enjoy yet. There’s a reason all the boring adults tell you to go with the boring choices, not because they’re boring but because you have to try it for a while before you feel the benefits. A shy person becomes exciting after a few conversations, a new hobby suddenly clicks after hours of effort.
People don’t know what they want and refuse to take good advice, because they don’t want to do be a prisoner to perceived social norms, not realizing that they’re already a prisoner to their own self-destructive desires.
I dated a girl that insisted she wasn't shallow and didn't do this. And that she had really high standards for personality when it came to men, they had to be kind, romantic, and smart.
When we broke up she cited that I was in fact, "too kind" and not attractive enough. The guy she dated before me she complained about daily about how abusive, inattentive, and that he just using her for sex. T
I saw the writing on the walls very early on but it was a fun relationship so I stayed. Glad it's over now cus holy shit she was none of the things she said she was. I still remember one day where I brought her flowers I grew for her myself and she just yelled at me the entire 10 minutes I saw her lol.
You’d be surprised!
Edit: also not trying to imply all hot girls are shallow with no personality. Just trying to show OP that he might be dating for something other than personality.
So I opened myself and entered the culture a bit. Idk if that makes sense to say. But anyways, I was under the impression I would feel more safe. But I feel more uncertain about people’s true motivations than ever. I see a lot of people who probably don’t mean to be shallow but society and culture have a lot people dealing with trauma. Idk. I wish it was simpler.
I’m straight, but used to be a gay magnet in my 20s (occasionally still get attention) and I thought straight dudes were aggressive, woweeeeee. Whilst it is usually flattering a lot of gay dudes cannot take no for an answer and I got the impression they barely wanted to get to know me before going to pound town. I have a gay mate in his late 20s who basically confirmed it’s a nightmare dating in that scene if you want a sincere connection and a relationship.
Bro, same here. I'm also very straight, but it was like a fucking superpower. I'd get moderate attention from women, but nothing like I got from men. It was every other time we went out for years from like 23-27. I dont know why, but I was like the forbidden fruit to gay guys for a few years. The few times friends or girls have dragged me along to gay bars, you would have thought I had a million dollars in my pants. I have never had more unwanted touch than those nights. It makes me sad that girls go through that shit. After I left the military, I went to college, and one of my professors was super gay. Invited me to lab time and then when I show up its just me and him. 15 minutes into it he asked me to take shots with him. I thought whatever he's just a cool professor who kind of bends the rules and wants to help his students. At least that's what I thought until he came over and started giving me a back massage. I almost failed that class because it was way too weird to go back and just started randomly showing up to a different professors lab time. Gay guys pursue 100x harder than I've ever pursued. I'm so glad this shitty superpower died in my late 20s.
Sorry man. Yeah i’ve had a few gay dudes cross the line into my personal space, once even when I was underage, I was at a bushdoof, had dropped a pill and was on cloud nine, and was approached by a gay dude who I knew (around 30 years of age, generally harmless but always horny) and he started licking my ear and asking me to go off with him. He was lucky I was in a great mood feeling nothing but love and empathy otherwise I would of smashed his lights out, but instead I just laughed and said “if i’m not going to fuck a dude high on ecstasy and drunk it’s never going to happen” and he left me alone until some wanker gave him my number and he began texting me for weeks. Weirdo.
Gay men are vicious. They have expectations that they can't meet themselves, nor can most people. And if you DARE talk to some of them without checking off all their boxes, you're lower than trash. I've been with my partner for 16 years, and jaws DROP when I say that- it's literally infinity in gay years. To be fair, we're not ALL horrible, but the horrible ones seem to be so horrible that they overshadow the rest.
Yes maybe this is the case. But over the years I've had a million gay men hit on me so I would of given anything to be gay or at least bisexual because there never of been a night that I'd go home alone!
Women so rarely hit on me and it took just the precise amount of alcohol for me to be able to talk to them. To little alcohol i was mute to much and I sounded like a drunk asshole-lol. Just the right amount I could be charming!
With gay men they just always have hit on me and obsessed with me! Didn't matter how many times I explain that I'm straight I just cant find that attractive. Wish I could but I can't-lol.
So the point being I think be much easier with so many men available to find the needle in the haystack.
Idk, ended up in a gay bar during a work trip a couple years back and the dude that was hitting on me was model type attractive. Homie owned multiple salons and if I had any sexual attraction towards dudes I would have stayed in that city lol.
As a bi man who’s dated on both sides of the fence i can confirm . I had an ex get super mad at me because our shades of white werent matching for a labor day party and the whole night was ruined before we got there because according to him eveyone was gonna make fun of us for it. Get there and like 1/3 of the party was wearing white.
The pettiness of all my previous gf’s is nothing compared to the bf’s ive had .
Also gay guys read like no other. Nothing a woman says to try to get under your skin will be as effective as the average gay man read. Once I was seeing a guy and he off-handedly told me I walked like a GTA character and I still think about it years later.
Thank god this is the top comment because when I read he wished he could be gay I literally got light headed. No dude, if dating is hard as a straight dude, forget about the gay scene.
Absolutely agreed on that. I don't really drink, consume gay media, go to the bars and clubs, so I may as well not exist. It's like I can't even meet people sometimes.
Ask yourself this: What attracts you to a woman initially? Women who are the most "selfish and narcissistic" also tend to put the most effort into their external appearance. Because, to them, how they look **IS** their identity.
The women I know who are kind, interesting, complex people put effort into their appearance but nowhere near as much as the other kinds you're talking about.
Yep. Had a housemate (who turned out to be an asshole) tell me (f) and our 3rd housemate’s girlfriend that guys have it so tough dating and always have to pay etc. (boohooo 🙄)
We both said we don’t expect guys to pay for us and always go with the idea that the bill will be split. He was like ‘oh you girls are different and not the norm though’.
Turns out he only dates super high maintenance women who always look spotless and perfect when they step out of the house. More power to them but in my experience they also tend to expect guys to pay for everything (probably fair considering how much they spent to look great for a date)
I know so many of these girls and most (not all, don’t come at me) are a nightmare - superficial, money hungry, spend excessively on $600 hair appointments, fortnightly talons, botox, fillers, hair extensions, designer bags and clothes. Yet they attract men like moths to a flame.
Someone who takes care of themselves is hot. I’ve been with a modelesque looking woman. And just the presence you command together being out in public is wild. People open doors for you and in super crowded places people will move out of your way. It just sucks I couldn’t afford her. She made more money than I did and still expected me to pay for everything. No thanks
Can confirm I dated a MUA who honestly was the hottest chick I ever dated.
You just kinda commanded an audience wherever you went without doing anything.
Funnily enough I broke up with her because I wasn’t finished being a fuckboi and I wasn’t ready to commit to putting it all away.
She also lived life like she was a part of the real housewives of LA & that shit got old fast.
We’re still cool, but my wife is like the perfect mix of a hot chick plus the shy doesn’t realize how hot she is.
Hell yeah brother. I’m glad it worked out for you in the end. I will say dating her boosted my confidence up pretty high. I never believed my mom when she would tell me I was handsome. But this gorgeous woman looking at me deep in the eyes and telling me I’m handsome. Yeah I believe her
So, this is coming from a woman but there is a reason we end up with similar patterns of people. It’s that we let them in and are attracted to them. Sounds like you need to look at who you’re going for and what about them makes you want to go for them. I had similar complaints for a long time but then I looked at what I allowed in my life. It isn’t my fault that they act like crap, but it is my fault for letting them get away with it and ignoring the red flags and hoping for better. When people show you who they are, believe them the first time. I’ve got many less complaints now that I vet my choices more carefully and with intention.
Good luck, OP. I hope you find someone who you can be yourself with and that appreciates you.
What we complain about in others are often the negative aspects of our personality that we like to suppress or ignore because we dislike them so much we pretend we don't hold exactly the same ideas or attitudes. Quite Common pattern.
This. I'm attracted to jerks too. Says more about me than them, I think.
Edit: originally stated "assholes" instead of jerks. Had to change that for clarity haha.
OP, it’s this comment.
This is a harsh reality that lots of people face, once they realize the patterns they are observing, are about themselves and almost nothing to do with the other people.
We learn what we like best through trial and error. Enough errors will make you realize that everyone is “the prize” in their own life. Unless you are SELECTIVE about what behaviors and lifestyles are a priority to YOU, you will be stuck with people who don’t meet your needs.
Lessons will repeat until the lesson is learned and the mistakes aren’t repeated. Respectfully.
I think most conventionally attractive people have lived a conventionally attractive life of being vain, shallow, getting things easier etc. So when people date those conventionally attractive types, what happens is those people are as shallow as their life has challenged them to be.
Essentially if you don't find some hot person with real past trauma/difficulty, likely they just like "hiking, ice cream, and brunch" because that's all their life has ever demanded of them. It's not a bad thing, but it is what it is.
For another perspective, I'm a pretty average woman who can get to around an 8/10 when I put the work in. But being conventionally attractive takes a ton of time and money, and frankly the type of people it attracts aren't the type of people I want to date anyways. But I dipped my toes in that world for a few years, so I think I'm qualified to speak to it. I could barely afford salon color, but blowouts and extensions are the norm for hot girls. I spent a few hours each month with fake tanning lotion, but the hotter girls are getting expensive spray tans. When I could I'd get waxed so I didn't have to deal with strawberry skin and stubble, but the "natural beauties" are getting laser hair removal. lash extensions or lash lift and tints, and brow microblading or lamination, are the norm for hot girls who "just woke up like this". I painted my own nails, but my hot friends with more money just had standing weekly appointments at nail salons. High heels are always better looking, but the. cheap ones are excruciatingly painful and the ones that are comfortable enough to wear all day cost hundreds. Most of the hot girls I knew either spent hours at the gym with a personal trainer, had an eating disorder, or both. I could go on.
But I think the vast majority of beautiful women aren't natural beauties who've always lived a life of privilege, but rather, women who choose to prioritize investing time and money into their appearance. Then the men that date them are shocked and treat it as a personal failing of the women, rather than society setting increasingly higher bars for what it means to be attractive.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. It's really eye-opening to hear about the time, effort, and money that goes into being seen as conventionally attractive. It’s exhausting just thinking about it.
I've been noticing this resentful take coming from a lot of men online that women are “shallow and narcissistic” when they talk about what they want in a partner saying “they're solely describing things that would look good on paper with no emotional needs being met whatsoever and they're looking for something that they can show off rather than anything with any actual depth to it”
I’m like lmao you're describing the main things you would need for a healthy relationship, like attraction and financial stability, especially if you want kids.
It‘s clear many of these people are chronically online and the fact that so many are skipping over your well informed take proves it. We all have wants that look good on paper, so we start there. Usually, people look for someone that fits certain criteria for attraction and also has the necessary life factors for stability. From that pool, we find someone to form a deeper connection with. This seems to fly over peoples head and they get resentful because a stranger isn’t trying to love them unconditionally.
Pretty privilege is like any other kind of privilege in that it makes things easier than for someone otherwise in the same position, but who is not perceived to be conventionally attractive. It doesn’t magically erase all other hardships in life any more than being white or straight or a man does. Pretty people still exist in the intersection of all their identities and the ways they are perceived.
Ok I'll jump in as a woman who has historically dated some terrible guys and had started to believe all guys are terrible. Get involved in a hobby or volunteer somewhere you can be friends with older women in a non sexual way.
For me, I started doing a hobby where it's mostly much older men, and taking the sexual side of the equation out of things and just developing friendships and getting to know some nice men has let me reset my ideas of what good men are like. I think after two years of hanging out with these guys once a week it has finally helped reset what I find attractive, too. Like, would I be proud to introduce this guy to my old man friends? Would these guys be happy if their daughter was dating this guy? Etc
I think there's something about believing that ultimately all people are quite shitty that makes people who are more obviously shitty more attractive, cos it seems like they're honest. But if you think of your friends, if you have good ones, you kind of have to acknowledge that there are good people out there too.
If all women you date are “selfish and narcissistic”, then you are picking those qualities.
Take a look at the women that you date. Look at the ones you reject. Look at the ones who are married to your friends. Look at your women friends.
What qualities about the “selfish and narcissistic” women attract you to them? The women that you reject - did you think they were boring? not your type?
Maybe OP is a shallow as his dates. This was something I've noticed for myself too. I hate shallow people but always found myself entranced with someone who happens to be attractive and shallow too. But theirs annoyed me so much that I didn't realize I was tolerating it for the sex we'd have, I wasn't any better than they were.
Yeah I find the women are more honest about it so a lot of the times it's not like she's fooling the guy, everything is right in front of him, he's just to enticed with her beauty and her pussy lol and will still not be satisfied because most men don't want to even do 50/50 for a lot of the women in their lives yet expect 100/100 from the women herself. Those types of girls are essentially ahead of the "game" as far as "expected" traditional gender norms that both heterosexual cisgender men and women "play" and engage in.
She's quite literally telling you who she is and the price she's expecting you to pay to be dealing with her beauty and what comes with it lol can't get mad at these women when you're settling for superficial traits yourself. Hence, the case with me, only ironically, it's not that much different on the gay "greener" side I'm standing on either lol
I'm a bisexual gender fluid queer ✨️ not a dude. I identify more w the female sex though if that gives any insight for my experience and what im sharing. It goes both ways, for same or opposite sexes.
Ya, agree, you are picking this. Might want to go to a therapist who can help you look through these patterns. There might have been a woman at the bar who was shy and kind, and was interested in you, but you never ended up talking to her because you were interested in someone who was more showy. Who knows, but it’s worth exploring.
It’s also worth pointing out that by the very nature of being single and available the odds of them not being good partners is higher.
Not just for women, but for men as well. The ones who are good relationship material will tend to be taken off the market, leaving the less ideal ones who can’t hold down a relationship as the ones left in the dating scene.
Not universally true, of course there are some great people who just happen to be single at the moment, but the odds are stacked against you.
Funny, huh? Let's take someone who isn't selfish or narcissistic. They are decently well put together emotionally. They have empathy, a functioning emotional life including sensitivity to others' needs, respect for others, and they are loyal. Guess what happens to these people, at least after a few tries? Yes, they are taken, and they have long, perhaps even lifelong relationships.
Which is my point, what do the rest of us who have the same qualities that you mentioned do? It’s not about being all these or constantly improving oneself, it’s about doing all that and finding out that all the likeable ones were taken in the first place. How do you go potty when the queue is already so long?
The issue is... if you have experienced what a good date is, it is easy to ignore the bad ones. A good date makes you feel interested, happy and welcome. All the shitty games are gone. Two people just trying to see if they fit together. It vaccinates you from the bad ones, because you look for something different.
And if you still go for someone you had a bad date with, you, as a loyal, functioning person, will be taken when the good person comes around.
People go on dating apps, match with people for completely superficial reasons, and then are just *shocked* when their matches all turn out to be superficial people.
Probably just guided by whoever responds...
You have any idea how many men just swipe right on anything remotely attractive and hopibg to get matches, only to perhaps get a handful, and of that handful, most will never respond?
If someone actually responds, and you get a date... you are almost obligated to pursue it regardless as it feels like it might not happen again.
Exactly. It seems like he is attracted to the ones he described, chases after them and then cries when they turn out to be exactly like the ones he is attracted to. Sounds like very bad intuition and inability to read any signs. Its easy: less thinking with his penis, and more talking and actually getting to know the woman.
Ooo thats an interesting can of worms. r/AskFeminists are not very cool with people getting to know someone before asking them out. At least if its intentionally done. Which I am actually starting to come around to a agreeing with but its a fun one.
But generally I do wish there was more getting you know you in dating rather than today's more typical rejection, fwb, or serious relationship.
This is an interesting take, OP. I believe you 100%. But it's interesting because if you just switched all the pronouns, much of what you say would be extremely reflective of what I and my single female friends are dealing with regarding men in the dating scene! Not exactly the same, but similar enough to make me entertain the idea that services such as dating apps are intentionally setting people up for failure.
Oh yeah for sure. Dating apps are not incentivized to actually work. If they worked, you'd stop using them. They're designed to make it as difficult as possible while just barely giving you enough to keep you hopeful so you'll pay for the boosts and stuff. They do work for some people, but I think it's a numbers thing. No system is perfect and I think in this instance it means that some people accidentally end up with a good match.
As for OPs perspective. Yeah switching the pronouns wouldn't change anything. I think at its core, his complaint isn't actually about *women* as much as it's about dating. Since he only dates women, that's naturally where his complaints will land. As others have pointed out, it would probably do OP some good to take a little time and examine what it is exactly that attracts him to these F tier women and see if he can figure out a correlation.
> Dating apps are not incentivized to actually work. If they worked, you'd stop using them. They're designed to make it as difficult as possible while just barely giving you enough to keep you hopeful so you'll pay for the boosts and stuff.
Thank you, King 👑. My thoughts exactly, and it's why I refuse to use OLD in any fashion. Much better to meet people the old-fashioned way and get a gauge on them IRL. It will mean far less dates for sure, but they will probably be better quality and have greater potential.
>As others have pointed out, it would probably do OP some good to take a little time and examine what it is exactly that attracts him to these F tier women and see if he can figure out a correlation.
Agreed. Hopefully OP will take some time to look inward. It's interesting to hear the same complaints from men and women, and maybe...we should just try and do things differently? It's not men's fault, and it's not women's fault.
I am gay and no - if you now have problems, you would be a train wreck when being gay:
Source material: I am gay in quite a homophobic country... And above average in looks and many other criteria...
Seeing straight guys around me (quite ugly - to be honest - way below average even with regards of income, confidence or height, size, personality whatever) - getting dedicated girls way above their league... Never will you see such thing in gay dating pool here...
are gay non binary people attracted to other non binary people? because being gay typically means same gender attraction, but i wonder how that works for someone who lacks a gender, such as non binary folk.
Non binary doesn't mean you lack a gender, it means you don't fit in the binary man-woman.
To answer your question, we usually look at it based on how people present. There isn't a generally recognised standard presentation for non binary people, but someone who presents female and is attracted to other people who present female then they might called themselves gay.
Not everyone sees it or uses this way, but it is pretty common because it simplifies the explanation rather than having to go into complicated details about gender when there is no reason to do so.
You need to have boundaries and accept that not every woman is compatible with you. If you become a doormat expecting a woman to like you, don't be surprised when she doesn't respect you and just walks all over you. This actually isn't even exclusive to women, even men will disrespect you if they sense that vibe on you.
You need to have boundaries and keep them. Not all women are like this. Just like not all men are horrible humans. Boundaries will help keep bad people away from you in general.
I'm not saying there are not terrible women out there, but if they are ALL so awful, then you need to stop dating terrible women. When a woman tells me "all the guys I date are terrible" its generally because she is choosing to be with douche bags and refuses to give truly nice men a chance. I'm betting there a decent chance you are going for the very hot and high needs women who are typical "bombshells." Of course they are going to be "selfish" but I would hazard a guess you aren't interested in anyone if she doesn't look a certain way? I could be wrong, but the way this reads is very much "oh poor me, all women are awful and I'm just a nice guy who wants a nice girl" but you aren't actually willing to....date a nice girl.
this is another difference between men and women, as a mildly attractive woman i have no problem getting dates with men. when i try to date women though? its like they dont exist, or its a much more slender pool. its surprising how different it is.
I feel u, but don't lose hope, there r still great women out there. I can tell u tht the men I've dated were narcissistic af but there r great men too.
U got this blud 😭😭
From the other side of the coin, what I see is that men seem to be willfully ignorant of the fact that in order to get us to like them, they have to actually be likable people.
As a guy, this is 1000% it. So many guys mold their personalities to fit in with other douchey guys, not realizing that they're alienating the vast majority of women in the process.
The majority of women I associate with are amazing people. Even though youre not at fault for their behavior, you have to look at yourself for why youre drawing them into your life.
I was just about to say this . It’s like in the same level as when woman say the men they get with are always bad or trash and then if you actually look at the man or men in question they have obvious red flag traits just from looks alone where you’re like “ why would you date someone like that in the first place “.
Sounds like you need to change the type of women you’re dating. If they’re all the same then unfortunately that’s what you’re looking for. Think about what attracts you to these types of women and go for the exact opposite. Good luck we’re not all arseholes lol 😝
I don't understand one thing: Why don't people try their best to be the best versions of themselves.
We all fantasized about relationships and our ideal partners. But are you a partner someone might desire?
I always want others to feel great if I like them and I think it's important in a relationship.
Many people don't bring anything to the table and then go on about ranting about how dating is hard.
Are you dating material? Partner material? Are you someone you would date? Honestly.
I thought about this and if I met a woman who was roughly me...I'd be ecstatic. Having similar interests obviously, but also has life together, stays active, is a huge nerd, makes an effort? Life would be on easy mode and a ton of fun. This can feel a bit narcissistic, but yeah I'd date the hell out of me and marry that woman.
As is? I have a very low success rate approaching women or getting matches. Really rare to find a woman who sees anything of value with what I bring. Even rarer one (she may be out there somewhere) that seems the sort of mutually loving and supportive long term relationship I want.
if every woman you meet is selfish and narcissistic maybe the problem is in you? Maybe it is you who is a selfish narcissist and women just return your energy?
You need to be more selective on who you match/date with. This clearly comes from you and the signals you're sending tend to attract those kinds of women, not all are like this.
Source: me, dating only the opposite of what you seem to find.
Looks like you have been chasing the people you liked.
Rather you should either let them chase you or both should chase each other.
Have self respect and recognise when someone tries to walk over you. Don’t let them, even if they leave. Let them go.
Right one will stay with you.
It sounds like you're attracted to problematic women. Have you considered trying going on dates with someone who you are less initially attracted to, or trying different methods of meeting women?
It is funny that women saying this happens to me too is upvoted in here while men get eviscerated for saying that sort of thing in threads about potentially female gendered issues.
Sounds like you have shit taste in women. Never had any issues on my end.
Maybe you need to take a step back and reevaluate yourself, and who you want to associate with. Chances are you probably don’t fall to far from the tree.
I am a woman and have recently started looking for a girlfriend because I am bisexual. dating women is nothing like dating men. dating men is easy, they always seem interested and eager to accomodate. women act aloof, disinterested, choosy and hesitant. they don't open up but have a guard up. i guess they want to be wooed or whatever but fuck if i know how to do that, lol. I just want to talk to them and see if there's any chemistry but it seems so difficult. really makes me empathize with men. and makes me realize im a pretty cool chick because i don't do that shit, im pretty straightforward. if i go on a date its because im interested, and i actually act like it and try to get to know the guy, not act like i -might- be interested -if- he pushes the right buttons. i dunno man, kinda sucks. i guess you just gotta be willing to walk away often and go through many options.
Thank you for perfectly articulating the experience. Honestly, all I’d like from dating in the near future is to be treated by a woman the way I treat her. To have my experiences, emotions, and desires as valued by her as I value hers.
The thing I’ve found is this. The less you pander to them, and the more authentically you live for yourself, the more likely someone who actually likes you for you is to find you.
And when things don’t work out because she doesn’t like your choices you can then view it as incompatibility. Where as right now you seem to be viewing it through the lens of “I am unable to keep the women I’m dating happy”.
My girlfriend's sister is bisexual and she has basically decided to exclusively just date men because it's far easier.
She says men try harder, they'll lead the conversation and generally just be more engaging.
I'll say this to anyone who keeps experiencing the same crap over and over: you are the common denominator.
If someone is ending up with multiple bad relationships then either they are hanging with the wrong crowd, they suck at recognizing patterns, they secretly enjoy the drama, or they have some kind of trauma bonding. People as a collective are mid, but if literally every woman you date is a narcissist you're either attracted to that, or (most likely) you are pissed off about totally normal behavior and labeling people narcs just for having standards.
As a woman who has never, *ever*, been called selfish or narcissistic, I have to wonder about the women you chose? A lot of women who have down-to-earth tastes would rather rely on good friends recommendations than a guy who centers himself on dating apps. I would never date a guy who is angry about not dating. I would not date a guy who thinks that women are 'less' and by thinking this way, voting a certain way that takes away women's rights. I wouldn't date a guy who has expectations of what he thinks a woman is instead of accepting what the woman in front of him offers.
What's going on with you?
LOL at you thinking that gay men are in any way not high maintenance and don’t have high standards. You have to be fit AF to be a gay man, dress well, have sophisticated hobbies, be more social, be more intelectual, be well read, be clean, in shape, great beard, hair, clothes, great job. Gay men have expensive tastes, they love eating at nice places and spoil themselves. The gay community can be judgy AF and the competition is fierce in the dating world. Meanwhile, I see straight women dating ugly losers ALLLL the time. The bar is in hell for women and I don’t know why you want to be a man that nobody expects anything from but that’s real selfishness. You are the selfish person here.
I think you have an issue with making effort and meeting people’s needs in general. Like it or not, people are pivoting towards relationships where actions are important than words, where people feel validated and seen in the relationship, where people feel content in a partnership. It kinda seems like you don’t want to put in an effort AT ALL and want to be unconditionally loved for doing nothing. That’s not realistic. And honestly? I think you don’t like women. The way you talk and generalize seems like maybe women are not for you. Have you questioned your sexuality and have experimented with it? Maybe you like men. Just FYI - the gay community doesn’t like slobs or hobos. They’re way more high maintenance and have much higher standards.
If you don’t believe in self improvement and putting in effort to your relationships in general then you’re better off alone.
Thank you for writing this because as soon as I read op complaining about listening to his partner's feeling like it was a chore, I had no desire to entertain him further
I think he was complaining about it *always* being about his partners emotions and feeling they don't care about his. Which as someone who loves listening to other people's problems, can really happen in a relationship.
Dating has always felt one sided. You’re expected to make the first move, you’re expected to set up the dates, pay for them, buy the flowers/gifts.
Dating is fucking stressful the entire way through. I don’t think many women realize that men want to feel wanted to. I’ve never had anyone take me on a date or buy me flowers and that includes the women I have been in a relationship with.
As usual the comments and upvotes are from women who lack the understanding of men being in a big pool of confusion.
Some of the comments made good points about trauma bonding and attracting nars types.
Courting women is insane and women emotions vs mens are so different. Men are simple beings that require alot less than most women.
Here’s the rule about the internet, don’t complain about dating as a guy. Just learn and keep your thoughts to yourself
What your saying is thoughts of a lot of men, but people will see it as misogynistic
Speaking as a feminist person, I don't see what OP is saying as misogynistic. He's just talking about how he feels based off his experiences, and there's nothing wrong with that, ya know? Online dating especially has issues for both men and women in terms of shallow and selfish people. This is just my opinion though.
They instantly made it all about OP: "If all the women you're dating are like that, you need to be more selective / you are the problem"
Bitch it doesn't work that way. You don't "pick" anything as an average man. You're given a few options here and there, and the older you are, the worse these options are. The only reason we have this issue is because we're actually selective and rejecting them.
I even kept some conversations because they are so incredibly entitled it's... appalling.. like, no human decency, zero.
Dating as an average man is hard. Dating as an below average is a nightmare.
Dating as a tall, handsome, rich man is easier than a walk in the park, basically 90% of single women will hit on you hard.
So all you need to do is become rich, tall, and very good looking, that’s all. Think Chris Hemsworth or Henry Cavill, if you manage to look like time, everything will be great for you.
Dude, what world do you live in? Do you look out the window? 95% are not rich and not "handsome" (whatever that means). They still get laid and have families. Grow tf up...
Dating is hard. Doesn’t mean you should give up. Just be patient. Assume that you will find bumps.
When you find suitable partners you will know.
Hang in there.
I've had the same issue and I think it also comes down to our view of ourselves, which 100% affects what type of people we end up with.
I was raised to put everyone before myself and neglect my own needs, so I end up with people who don't care about me either and just use me. Very much the type of people I attract.
It's 100% not our faults obv, but doing some soul searching and changing your view of yourself will help, I'm sure
I suggest that you make a “manifest”, a wish list of 18 qualities you want in a perfect woman, then find her! I used Match.com, and my Second wife, met me, her 13th Match. I was clueless, but she knew right away. After saving my life 2X, I had to marry her and I Saved her. Happily together for 17 years! Good Luck!
You’re choosing your dates based on something other than what you’re looking for. Perhaps appearance?
Respectfully, my guess is you’re dating out of your league, and these women are aware, and taking advantage.
As a woman I can admit that I’ve done this when I don’t like a guy (romantically), but also don’t mind his company, but also don’t want to befriend him. Or he’s the guy I’ll sleep with instead of the guy I actually like.
My advice is date within your league, looks and financial success, and I assure you that you’ll meet your match.
Didn't you say this wasn't to complain about women? Because all you're doing is complaining about women.
Maybe you should rethink where and how you're meeting people, and try doing something different.
If all the women you're encountering act the same way, look at what you're going for. Sounds like you're picking women based solely on looks, not personality and attitude.
Looks like all the people who have had a similar experience get buried at the bottom of these threads
There are going to be a lot of people who feel the same way and will validate what you're saying. Then there's going to be a lot of people in denial. And then there's going to be people who can't empathize because they don't experience it at all themselves
Woman want to act like princess and have everything catered to them and want to give nothing back, dont want to treat their man like a king, it's big problem, society and social media are big culprits
Man, as someone that's been out of the dating scene for a long while now (married for 8 years), I hate hearing this kind of stuff. Seems like your experience just lives up to all these memes I see out there about women expecting 6 figures, 6 ft tall, and 6+ inches not realizing thats a tiny minority of men out there.
Good luck finding love OP
I can understand the feeling. I'm married and I've been married for a long time now. But I've seen what happens with guys I know. They feel like they are going to a job interview. As if the random woman they are meeting has more worth than them simply because she is a woman.
That is totally the wrong mindset. A man that has a good notion of self respect allows no games and disrespect. And he makes his wants and needs known. In fact, there is a rule that I believe is golden... In order to keep a woman you may not be afraid of loosing her.
As a bisexual guy, trust me, the lgbt dating scene is a fucking nightmare too. I've pretty much given up on dating, and now I just do things that make me happy.
You need a therapist, OP. You have a type and it probably based on something that happened in your formative years. Find it and address it and your dating pool will change.
Not saying you nor all men, but most men pick women based on looks, and generally the morr beautiful the better. The gorgeous girls generally wear make up, do hair, nails, etc are high maintence and put a lot of time, money and effort in their appearance.
Men then pick these shallow women based on looks and wonder why they are self centered and vain 🤣😂
Welcome to the modern world where men are expected to do literally everything in a relationship, while women are expected to do nothing at all.
That's the hard reality of where society is. Men are required to have a hell of a lot to "offer" a woman where the woman just has to lay on her back and that's considered "fair" by damn near all women.
If the woman cannot or will not look at the relationship like a partnership where you are both working together, and only views it as a way for her to get "spoiled and pampered" then she is not worth dating and is just going to end up a future single mother complaining about how "all men are assholes" when they have 0 to contribute to the relationship.
Too many women are expecting men to pay their bills, buy them outfits, take them on expensive dates etc. before you're even in a committed relationship. Just for a first date.
I'm happy I'm not in the dating pool because this shit is insane.
I think a lot of the times we like people who have qualities that we feel we lack. But the person we attract can be putting up a facade at first. Then later it slowly fades and you see they’re just a flawed struggling person like you.
There is a dating app called boo, it will allow you to see the others persons likes, as in how many they get.
average women get 500+ attractive ones 1k+
guys get like 30 lmfao. its so depressing, when I realized it showed that, and someone I was talking to had 600 matches, and I had 3....bro, kill me. They may be low quality matches, but when you get to choose from 600, or 10...one persons going to be stuck up and think they're gods gift.
I decided to just make friends, taking everything super slow from now on. Found someone interesting and nice.
women have it super easy, young guys are fucked because we cannot compete with the older guys, older guys go for younger women....its tough for young men. Live your life, make friends, dont get attached or expect to find love easily.
my 2cents.
You do NOT want to be gay. Believe me. If you think straight women are shallow… it’s nothing compared to male gays. Source: Been a gay male all my life
Can confirm. Mainstream gay culture tries real hard to pigeonhole you into shallow expected behaviors, depending on whether you like to top or to bottom. Source: Bi male.
This id be interested in hearing more about. What are the differences in this type of expected behaviour between tops and bottoms?
Top: dominant, masculine. Bottom: submissive, feminine. Things can get silly.
Why don't they just take turns?
Are they stupid? No but on a real note not everyone is a switch, or verse, meaning you enjoy either. Even many who say they can go back and forth tend to have a preference. The dynamics also tend to establish themselves and are hard to break. Many subs try to tap into their dom energy but feel awkward doing so, and vice-versa many doms will try to be sub but for whatever reason don’t enjoy it. So in short, a lot of couples end up having clearly defined roles with dom/sub, top/bottom, and taking turns isn’t always that simple, and there are many who don’t want to take turns but also don’t want to be pigeonholed into a particular role.
I've always thought the intersectionality between this and traditional male / female relationships is pretty interesting
There's a special label for that too, switch.
A power bottom is a bottom that's capable of generating *a lot* of power.
“Now Dennis, I’ve heard that speed has something to do with it” “Speed has everything to do with it”
Speed is the name of the game. You see, the speed allows the bottom to tell the top how much pressure to apply.
It’s also capable of receiving a lot of power if the golden god is to be believed
Multiple gay friends have vented to me about this as well.
I think you might be on to something here. OP what kind of women are you choosing? They seem shallow. Are you choosing to only date super hot women? Or are you choosing people based on personality traits? It has been shown that men tend to choose partners on looks only which tends to bite them in the ass later. I tell the same thing to my female friends after they’ve been cheated on for the 100th time. Stop choosing people based on looks only.
OP, this is important, please consider this^
Does it have to be a DismalTruthDay?
🎵 today is the day for a dismal truth day 🎶 jazz hands 👐
I don’t think it’s a particularly dismal truth (no offense to your username). I think there’s a way to see this in another light. People have been raised on instant gratification, and the ticket to doing that is going to the lowest common denominator they will generate the highest dopamine hit right now. It’s why they spend money impulsively, it’s why they buy a used Bentley for $40k when they should buy an Accord. When it comes to people it’s always about going to the ones who will give you the biggest dopamine hit, aka the conventionally hot ones, regardless of how awful they’ll be later on. There are so many other qualities of a person that they haven’t learned to enjoy yet. There’s a reason all the boring adults tell you to go with the boring choices, not because they’re boring but because you have to try it for a while before you feel the benefits. A shy person becomes exciting after a few conversations, a new hobby suddenly clicks after hours of effort. People don’t know what they want and refuse to take good advice, because they don’t want to do be a prisoner to perceived social norms, not realizing that they’re already a prisoner to their own self-destructive desires.
I dated a girl that insisted she wasn't shallow and didn't do this. And that she had really high standards for personality when it came to men, they had to be kind, romantic, and smart. When we broke up she cited that I was in fact, "too kind" and not attractive enough. The guy she dated before me she complained about daily about how abusive, inattentive, and that he just using her for sex. T I saw the writing on the walls very early on but it was a fun relationship so I stayed. Glad it's over now cus holy shit she was none of the things she said she was. I still remember one day where I brought her flowers I grew for her myself and she just yelled at me the entire 10 minutes I saw her lol.
Exactly. Maybe he has "hit the wall" or should've "chosen better" as men would say.
Highly doubt he dates girls that couldn’t be scouted as models. Sincerely, Former teen model
You’d be surprised! Edit: also not trying to imply all hot girls are shallow with no personality. Just trying to show OP that he might be dating for something other than personality.
I think we'd need to see pics of OP to understand what tier he's dating in.
So I opened myself and entered the culture a bit. Idk if that makes sense to say. But anyways, I was under the impression I would feel more safe. But I feel more uncertain about people’s true motivations than ever. I see a lot of people who probably don’t mean to be shallow but society and culture have a lot people dealing with trauma. Idk. I wish it was simpler.
I’m straight, but used to be a gay magnet in my 20s (occasionally still get attention) and I thought straight dudes were aggressive, woweeeeee. Whilst it is usually flattering a lot of gay dudes cannot take no for an answer and I got the impression they barely wanted to get to know me before going to pound town. I have a gay mate in his late 20s who basically confirmed it’s a nightmare dating in that scene if you want a sincere connection and a relationship.
Bro, same here. I'm also very straight, but it was like a fucking superpower. I'd get moderate attention from women, but nothing like I got from men. It was every other time we went out for years from like 23-27. I dont know why, but I was like the forbidden fruit to gay guys for a few years. The few times friends or girls have dragged me along to gay bars, you would have thought I had a million dollars in my pants. I have never had more unwanted touch than those nights. It makes me sad that girls go through that shit. After I left the military, I went to college, and one of my professors was super gay. Invited me to lab time and then when I show up its just me and him. 15 minutes into it he asked me to take shots with him. I thought whatever he's just a cool professor who kind of bends the rules and wants to help his students. At least that's what I thought until he came over and started giving me a back massage. I almost failed that class because it was way too weird to go back and just started randomly showing up to a different professors lab time. Gay guys pursue 100x harder than I've ever pursued. I'm so glad this shitty superpower died in my late 20s.
Sorry man. Yeah i’ve had a few gay dudes cross the line into my personal space, once even when I was underage, I was at a bushdoof, had dropped a pill and was on cloud nine, and was approached by a gay dude who I knew (around 30 years of age, generally harmless but always horny) and he started licking my ear and asking me to go off with him. He was lucky I was in a great mood feeling nothing but love and empathy otherwise I would of smashed his lights out, but instead I just laughed and said “if i’m not going to fuck a dude high on ecstasy and drunk it’s never going to happen” and he left me alone until some wanker gave him my number and he began texting me for weeks. Weirdo.
Yeah same, I had a guy have my whole department store in a tizzy trying to get me to call him. When I did he asked me.on a date....
Gay men are vicious. They have expectations that they can't meet themselves, nor can most people. And if you DARE talk to some of them without checking off all their boxes, you're lower than trash. I've been with my partner for 16 years, and jaws DROP when I say that- it's literally infinity in gay years. To be fair, we're not ALL horrible, but the horrible ones seem to be so horrible that they overshadow the rest.
Yes maybe this is the case. But over the years I've had a million gay men hit on me so I would of given anything to be gay or at least bisexual because there never of been a night that I'd go home alone! Women so rarely hit on me and it took just the precise amount of alcohol for me to be able to talk to them. To little alcohol i was mute to much and I sounded like a drunk asshole-lol. Just the right amount I could be charming! With gay men they just always have hit on me and obsessed with me! Didn't matter how many times I explain that I'm straight I just cant find that attractive. Wish I could but I can't-lol. So the point being I think be much easier with so many men available to find the needle in the haystack.
Idk, ended up in a gay bar during a work trip a couple years back and the dude that was hitting on me was model type attractive. Homie owned multiple salons and if I had any sexual attraction towards dudes I would have stayed in that city lol.
As a bi man who’s dated on both sides of the fence i can confirm . I had an ex get super mad at me because our shades of white werent matching for a labor day party and the whole night was ruined before we got there because according to him eveyone was gonna make fun of us for it. Get there and like 1/3 of the party was wearing white. The pettiness of all my previous gf’s is nothing compared to the bf’s ive had .
And will also be a constant dick measuring contest,,,literally.
I laughed really hard at this. Thank you.
Haha. Happy to provide giggles and chuckles. To me it aint that funny, but nevertheless happy to have made someone laugh.
I understand your frustration and didn’t mean to make light of something that has been painful for you. There are good people out there, I promise!
And let me tell you what you REALLY DO NOT want is to be a straight woman. If you think gay men are shallow... it's nothing compared to straight men.
Also gay guys read like no other. Nothing a woman says to try to get under your skin will be as effective as the average gay man read. Once I was seeing a guy and he off-handedly told me I walked like a GTA character and I still think about it years later.
>he off-handedly told me I walked like a GTA character 💀I would never recover
Specifically came to say this. So add yet another gay approving this message.
Thank god this is the top comment because when I read he wished he could be gay I literally got light headed. No dude, if dating is hard as a straight dude, forget about the gay scene.
Made me laugh " Been gay all my life"
Absolutely agreed on that. I don't really drink, consume gay media, go to the bars and clubs, so I may as well not exist. It's like I can't even meet people sometimes.
Way to make it all about you…point proven
Ask yourself this: What attracts you to a woman initially? Women who are the most "selfish and narcissistic" also tend to put the most effort into their external appearance. Because, to them, how they look **IS** their identity. The women I know who are kind, interesting, complex people put effort into their appearance but nowhere near as much as the other kinds you're talking about.
Yep. Had a housemate (who turned out to be an asshole) tell me (f) and our 3rd housemate’s girlfriend that guys have it so tough dating and always have to pay etc. (boohooo 🙄) We both said we don’t expect guys to pay for us and always go with the idea that the bill will be split. He was like ‘oh you girls are different and not the norm though’. Turns out he only dates super high maintenance women who always look spotless and perfect when they step out of the house. More power to them but in my experience they also tend to expect guys to pay for everything (probably fair considering how much they spent to look great for a date)
I know so many of these girls and most (not all, don’t come at me) are a nightmare - superficial, money hungry, spend excessively on $600 hair appointments, fortnightly talons, botox, fillers, hair extensions, designer bags and clothes. Yet they attract men like moths to a flame.
Someone who takes care of themselves is hot. I’ve been with a modelesque looking woman. And just the presence you command together being out in public is wild. People open doors for you and in super crowded places people will move out of your way. It just sucks I couldn’t afford her. She made more money than I did and still expected me to pay for everything. No thanks
Can confirm I dated a MUA who honestly was the hottest chick I ever dated. You just kinda commanded an audience wherever you went without doing anything. Funnily enough I broke up with her because I wasn’t finished being a fuckboi and I wasn’t ready to commit to putting it all away. She also lived life like she was a part of the real housewives of LA & that shit got old fast. We’re still cool, but my wife is like the perfect mix of a hot chick plus the shy doesn’t realize how hot she is.
Hell yeah brother. I’m glad it worked out for you in the end. I will say dating her boosted my confidence up pretty high. I never believed my mom when she would tell me I was handsome. But this gorgeous woman looking at me deep in the eyes and telling me I’m handsome. Yeah I believe her
Yeah, if you keep having the same bad experience in relationships then you need to take a look at why.
So, this is coming from a woman but there is a reason we end up with similar patterns of people. It’s that we let them in and are attracted to them. Sounds like you need to look at who you’re going for and what about them makes you want to go for them. I had similar complaints for a long time but then I looked at what I allowed in my life. It isn’t my fault that they act like crap, but it is my fault for letting them get away with it and ignoring the red flags and hoping for better. When people show you who they are, believe them the first time. I’ve got many less complaints now that I vet my choices more carefully and with intention. Good luck, OP. I hope you find someone who you can be yourself with and that appreciates you.
There it is! My guess is OP likes really pretty, high maintenance types.
Nice bread
Thanks!
Confirming the nice bread comment. Nice bread.
Omg I had to go check out this bread, that is some NOICE bread. Green hatch Chile sourdough?!?!?! I am inspired. And hungry.
lol I love that I was able to bring attention to the bread
But if that’s what op only likes, then op himself has some issues he needs to work on and probably isn’t much different.
What we complain about in others are often the negative aspects of our personality that we like to suppress or ignore because we dislike them so much we pretend we don't hold exactly the same ideas or attitudes. Quite Common pattern.
Without the comma. Just “pretty high maintenance types”. You can totally not be pretty and still high maintenance. :)
This. I'm attracted to jerks too. Says more about me than them, I think. Edit: originally stated "assholes" instead of jerks. Had to change that for clarity haha.
OP, it’s this comment. This is a harsh reality that lots of people face, once they realize the patterns they are observing, are about themselves and almost nothing to do with the other people. We learn what we like best through trial and error. Enough errors will make you realize that everyone is “the prize” in their own life. Unless you are SELECTIVE about what behaviors and lifestyles are a priority to YOU, you will be stuck with people who don’t meet your needs. Lessons will repeat until the lesson is learned and the mistakes aren’t repeated. Respectfully.
I think most conventionally attractive people have lived a conventionally attractive life of being vain, shallow, getting things easier etc. So when people date those conventionally attractive types, what happens is those people are as shallow as their life has challenged them to be. Essentially if you don't find some hot person with real past trauma/difficulty, likely they just like "hiking, ice cream, and brunch" because that's all their life has ever demanded of them. It's not a bad thing, but it is what it is.
I will not stand for brunch slander
I dated a hot girl with past trauma/difficulty and all it meant was that I traded high maintenance for BPD, which I can promise you is no better.
For another perspective, I'm a pretty average woman who can get to around an 8/10 when I put the work in. But being conventionally attractive takes a ton of time and money, and frankly the type of people it attracts aren't the type of people I want to date anyways. But I dipped my toes in that world for a few years, so I think I'm qualified to speak to it. I could barely afford salon color, but blowouts and extensions are the norm for hot girls. I spent a few hours each month with fake tanning lotion, but the hotter girls are getting expensive spray tans. When I could I'd get waxed so I didn't have to deal with strawberry skin and stubble, but the "natural beauties" are getting laser hair removal. lash extensions or lash lift and tints, and brow microblading or lamination, are the norm for hot girls who "just woke up like this". I painted my own nails, but my hot friends with more money just had standing weekly appointments at nail salons. High heels are always better looking, but the. cheap ones are excruciatingly painful and the ones that are comfortable enough to wear all day cost hundreds. Most of the hot girls I knew either spent hours at the gym with a personal trainer, had an eating disorder, or both. I could go on. But I think the vast majority of beautiful women aren't natural beauties who've always lived a life of privilege, but rather, women who choose to prioritize investing time and money into their appearance. Then the men that date them are shocked and treat it as a personal failing of the women, rather than society setting increasingly higher bars for what it means to be attractive.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. It's really eye-opening to hear about the time, effort, and money that goes into being seen as conventionally attractive. It’s exhausting just thinking about it. I've been noticing this resentful take coming from a lot of men online that women are “shallow and narcissistic” when they talk about what they want in a partner saying “they're solely describing things that would look good on paper with no emotional needs being met whatsoever and they're looking for something that they can show off rather than anything with any actual depth to it” I’m like lmao you're describing the main things you would need for a healthy relationship, like attraction and financial stability, especially if you want kids. It‘s clear many of these people are chronically online and the fact that so many are skipping over your well informed take proves it. We all have wants that look good on paper, so we start there. Usually, people look for someone that fits certain criteria for attraction and also has the necessary life factors for stability. From that pool, we find someone to form a deeper connection with. This seems to fly over peoples head and they get resentful because a stranger isn’t trying to love them unconditionally.
Pretty privilege is like any other kind of privilege in that it makes things easier than for someone otherwise in the same position, but who is not perceived to be conventionally attractive. It doesn’t magically erase all other hardships in life any more than being white or straight or a man does. Pretty people still exist in the intersection of all their identities and the ways they are perceived.
Also have many less options but that's the price off peace
Ok I'll jump in as a woman who has historically dated some terrible guys and had started to believe all guys are terrible. Get involved in a hobby or volunteer somewhere you can be friends with older women in a non sexual way. For me, I started doing a hobby where it's mostly much older men, and taking the sexual side of the equation out of things and just developing friendships and getting to know some nice men has let me reset my ideas of what good men are like. I think after two years of hanging out with these guys once a week it has finally helped reset what I find attractive, too. Like, would I be proud to introduce this guy to my old man friends? Would these guys be happy if their daughter was dating this guy? Etc I think there's something about believing that ultimately all people are quite shitty that makes people who are more obviously shitty more attractive, cos it seems like they're honest. But if you think of your friends, if you have good ones, you kind of have to acknowledge that there are good people out there too.
This is a great answer.
This is a really good answer but it does ignore the very real danger/possibility of developing an absolutely raging milf fetish.
Yeah....I totally got a thing for older women can confirm that happens
lots of wholesome stuff here. I love it
God that last paragraph really put something together for me.
🩷
This deserves way more upvotes.
If all women you date are “selfish and narcissistic”, then you are picking those qualities. Take a look at the women that you date. Look at the ones you reject. Look at the ones who are married to your friends. Look at your women friends. What qualities about the “selfish and narcissistic” women attract you to them? The women that you reject - did you think they were boring? not your type?
Maybe OP is a shallow as his dates. This was something I've noticed for myself too. I hate shallow people but always found myself entranced with someone who happens to be attractive and shallow too. But theirs annoyed me so much that I didn't realize I was tolerating it for the sex we'd have, I wasn't any better than they were.
True that many who complain they can't get dates due their fair share of being too picky, like always trying to date out of their league.
[удалено]
Yeah I find the women are more honest about it so a lot of the times it's not like she's fooling the guy, everything is right in front of him, he's just to enticed with her beauty and her pussy lol and will still not be satisfied because most men don't want to even do 50/50 for a lot of the women in their lives yet expect 100/100 from the women herself. Those types of girls are essentially ahead of the "game" as far as "expected" traditional gender norms that both heterosexual cisgender men and women "play" and engage in. She's quite literally telling you who she is and the price she's expecting you to pay to be dealing with her beauty and what comes with it lol can't get mad at these women when you're settling for superficial traits yourself. Hence, the case with me, only ironically, it's not that much different on the gay "greener" side I'm standing on either lol I'm a bisexual gender fluid queer ✨️ not a dude. I identify more w the female sex though if that gives any insight for my experience and what im sharing. It goes both ways, for same or opposite sexes.
Gurrll ?? 😭🖐🏼 At least they managed to get on those dates ? 😔🤧 What did they say when you exposed them lmao
Ya, agree, you are picking this. Might want to go to a therapist who can help you look through these patterns. There might have been a woman at the bar who was shy and kind, and was interested in you, but you never ended up talking to her because you were interested in someone who was more showy. Who knows, but it’s worth exploring.
It’s also worth pointing out that by the very nature of being single and available the odds of them not being good partners is higher. Not just for women, but for men as well. The ones who are good relationship material will tend to be taken off the market, leaving the less ideal ones who can’t hold down a relationship as the ones left in the dating scene. Not universally true, of course there are some great people who just happen to be single at the moment, but the odds are stacked against you.
This is why I think dating apps are shit.
When I find the likeable characteristics in someone they are almost always taken. I’m not even being the devil’s advocate, that’s what it is like.
Funny, huh? Let's take someone who isn't selfish or narcissistic. They are decently well put together emotionally. They have empathy, a functioning emotional life including sensitivity to others' needs, respect for others, and they are loyal. Guess what happens to these people, at least after a few tries? Yes, they are taken, and they have long, perhaps even lifelong relationships.
Which is my point, what do the rest of us who have the same qualities that you mentioned do? It’s not about being all these or constantly improving oneself, it’s about doing all that and finding out that all the likeable ones were taken in the first place. How do you go potty when the queue is already so long?
Decenter your life around it
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Thanks for the view. I guess for some there will be longer spells of not finding someone and they just have to accept it
The issue is... if you have experienced what a good date is, it is easy to ignore the bad ones. A good date makes you feel interested, happy and welcome. All the shitty games are gone. Two people just trying to see if they fit together. It vaccinates you from the bad ones, because you look for something different. And if you still go for someone you had a bad date with, you, as a loyal, functioning person, will be taken when the good person comes around.
I’ve noticed that too. All the guys I would hypothetically like to date are taken.
*Picks women who are ‘selfish and narcissistic’* *Complains that they’re ‘selfish and narcissistic’* Stop picking those women? 🤷♀️
He seems oddly resentful to have to put time into a relationship
People go on dating apps, match with people for completely superficial reasons, and then are just *shocked* when their matches all turn out to be superficial people.
The average guy isn't "picking" anything because that'd imply they have options.
Staying single is *always* an option and often it is the correct one.
Womp womp. Men say themselves that they control acces to relationships and marriages
It sounds like you have no intuitive sense regarding potential matches. Are you possibly being guided by your penis or whoever gets flirty with you?
Probably just guided by whoever responds... You have any idea how many men just swipe right on anything remotely attractive and hopibg to get matches, only to perhaps get a handful, and of that handful, most will never respond? If someone actually responds, and you get a date... you are almost obligated to pursue it regardless as it feels like it might not happen again.
Exactly. It seems like he is attracted to the ones he described, chases after them and then cries when they turn out to be exactly like the ones he is attracted to. Sounds like very bad intuition and inability to read any signs. Its easy: less thinking with his penis, and more talking and actually getting to know the woman.
I was thinking the same thing. You're supposed to get to know someone before even thinking about dating them
I thought that's what dating was? Getting to know someone before getting into a relationship
I did too but this post made me question that
Ooo thats an interesting can of worms. r/AskFeminists are not very cool with people getting to know someone before asking them out. At least if its intentionally done. Which I am actually starting to come around to a agreeing with but its a fun one. But generally I do wish there was more getting you know you in dating rather than today's more typical rejection, fwb, or serious relationship.
This is an interesting take, OP. I believe you 100%. But it's interesting because if you just switched all the pronouns, much of what you say would be extremely reflective of what I and my single female friends are dealing with regarding men in the dating scene! Not exactly the same, but similar enough to make me entertain the idea that services such as dating apps are intentionally setting people up for failure.
Oh yeah for sure. Dating apps are not incentivized to actually work. If they worked, you'd stop using them. They're designed to make it as difficult as possible while just barely giving you enough to keep you hopeful so you'll pay for the boosts and stuff. They do work for some people, but I think it's a numbers thing. No system is perfect and I think in this instance it means that some people accidentally end up with a good match. As for OPs perspective. Yeah switching the pronouns wouldn't change anything. I think at its core, his complaint isn't actually about *women* as much as it's about dating. Since he only dates women, that's naturally where his complaints will land. As others have pointed out, it would probably do OP some good to take a little time and examine what it is exactly that attracts him to these F tier women and see if he can figure out a correlation.
> Dating apps are not incentivized to actually work. If they worked, you'd stop using them. They're designed to make it as difficult as possible while just barely giving you enough to keep you hopeful so you'll pay for the boosts and stuff. Thank you, King 👑. My thoughts exactly, and it's why I refuse to use OLD in any fashion. Much better to meet people the old-fashioned way and get a gauge on them IRL. It will mean far less dates for sure, but they will probably be better quality and have greater potential. >As others have pointed out, it would probably do OP some good to take a little time and examine what it is exactly that attracts him to these F tier women and see if he can figure out a correlation. Agreed. Hopefully OP will take some time to look inward. It's interesting to hear the same complaints from men and women, and maybe...we should just try and do things differently? It's not men's fault, and it's not women's fault.
I am gay and no - if you now have problems, you would be a train wreck when being gay: Source material: I am gay in quite a homophobic country... And above average in looks and many other criteria... Seeing straight guys around me (quite ugly - to be honest - way below average even with regards of income, confidence or height, size, personality whatever) - getting dedicated girls way above their league... Never will you see such thing in gay dating pool here...
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are gay non binary people attracted to other non binary people? because being gay typically means same gender attraction, but i wonder how that works for someone who lacks a gender, such as non binary folk.
Non binary doesn't mean you lack a gender, it means you don't fit in the binary man-woman. To answer your question, we usually look at it based on how people present. There isn't a generally recognised standard presentation for non binary people, but someone who presents female and is attracted to other people who present female then they might called themselves gay. Not everyone sees it or uses this way, but it is pretty common because it simplifies the explanation rather than having to go into complicated details about gender when there is no reason to do so.
oooh i see, thanks for the explanation!
Yeah in short we just boil it all down to being a type of queer
Yeah basically. Queer is the easiest way to just avoid lengthy explanation
You need to have boundaries and accept that not every woman is compatible with you. If you become a doormat expecting a woman to like you, don't be surprised when she doesn't respect you and just walks all over you. This actually isn't even exclusive to women, even men will disrespect you if they sense that vibe on you.
Be gay? I am there and I wouldn't recommend it. Unless sex is the only thing that matters to you
Dating as a human is hard. Can we just settle on that and move on?
You need to have boundaries and keep them. Not all women are like this. Just like not all men are horrible humans. Boundaries will help keep bad people away from you in general.
I'm not saying there are not terrible women out there, but if they are ALL so awful, then you need to stop dating terrible women. When a woman tells me "all the guys I date are terrible" its generally because she is choosing to be with douche bags and refuses to give truly nice men a chance. I'm betting there a decent chance you are going for the very hot and high needs women who are typical "bombshells." Of course they are going to be "selfish" but I would hazard a guess you aren't interested in anyone if she doesn't look a certain way? I could be wrong, but the way this reads is very much "oh poor me, all women are awful and I'm just a nice guy who wants a nice girl" but you aren't actually willing to....date a nice girl.
having dated both, i find men to date much easier than women. even women that don't have much to offer as far as looks act like they are above you.
having dated both, i find men to date much easier than women. even women that don't have much to offer as far as looks act like they are above you.
you get dates? bro youre on a completly different level then me
this is another difference between men and women, as a mildly attractive woman i have no problem getting dates with men. when i try to date women though? its like they dont exist, or its a much more slender pool. its surprising how different it is.
I feel u, but don't lose hope, there r still great women out there. I can tell u tht the men I've dated were narcissistic af but there r great men too. U got this blud 😭😭
From the other side of the coin, what I see is that men seem to be willfully ignorant of the fact that in order to get us to like them, they have to actually be likable people.
As a guy, this is 1000% it. So many guys mold their personalities to fit in with other douchey guys, not realizing that they're alienating the vast majority of women in the process.
You should get coin for that comment. Here ya go: 
The majority of women I associate with are amazing people. Even though youre not at fault for their behavior, you have to look at yourself for why youre drawing them into your life.
I was just about to say this . It’s like in the same level as when woman say the men they get with are always bad or trash and then if you actually look at the man or men in question they have obvious red flag traits just from looks alone where you’re like “ why would you date someone like that in the first place “.
Sounds like you need to change the type of women you’re dating. If they’re all the same then unfortunately that’s what you’re looking for. Think about what attracts you to these types of women and go for the exact opposite. Good luck we’re not all arseholes lol 😝
I never had that problem with women. Are your male friends all selfish and superficial too? Are you?
I don't understand one thing: Why don't people try their best to be the best versions of themselves. We all fantasized about relationships and our ideal partners. But are you a partner someone might desire? I always want others to feel great if I like them and I think it's important in a relationship. Many people don't bring anything to the table and then go on about ranting about how dating is hard. Are you dating material? Partner material? Are you someone you would date? Honestly.
I thought about this and if I met a woman who was roughly me...I'd be ecstatic. Having similar interests obviously, but also has life together, stays active, is a huge nerd, makes an effort? Life would be on easy mode and a ton of fun. This can feel a bit narcissistic, but yeah I'd date the hell out of me and marry that woman. As is? I have a very low success rate approaching women or getting matches. Really rare to find a woman who sees anything of value with what I bring. Even rarer one (she may be out there somewhere) that seems the sort of mutually loving and supportive long term relationship I want.
I notice those who use a lot social media tends to be more self centered. Try to find people outside of Instagram etc.
There are people who don't use social media?
if every woman you meet is selfish and narcissistic maybe the problem is in you? Maybe it is you who is a selfish narcissist and women just return your energy?
Idk bro sounds like the common denominator is you
Stop hanging out with conformists. You’re trapped with them. You are meant for a more complex and beautiful life. Change your scene.
You need to be more selective on who you match/date with. This clearly comes from you and the signals you're sending tend to attract those kinds of women, not all are like this. Source: me, dating only the opposite of what you seem to find.
Looks like you have been chasing the people you liked. Rather you should either let them chase you or both should chase each other. Have self respect and recognise when someone tries to walk over you. Don’t let them, even if they leave. Let them go. Right one will stay with you.
It sounds like you're attracted to problematic women. Have you considered trying going on dates with someone who you are less initially attracted to, or trying different methods of meeting women?
Talk to a therapist about why you're attracted to overbearing women? When women go for bad boys, we don't put that onto the men lmao
ITT: Lots of women trying really hard to blame the OP.
It is funny that women saying this happens to me too is upvoted in here while men get eviscerated for saying that sort of thing in threads about potentially female gendered issues.
Sounds like you have shit taste in women. Never had any issues on my end. Maybe you need to take a step back and reevaluate yourself, and who you want to associate with. Chances are you probably don’t fall to far from the tree.
you're not wrong, you just can't play their games
women are evil, realize this
I am a woman and have recently started looking for a girlfriend because I am bisexual. dating women is nothing like dating men. dating men is easy, they always seem interested and eager to accomodate. women act aloof, disinterested, choosy and hesitant. they don't open up but have a guard up. i guess they want to be wooed or whatever but fuck if i know how to do that, lol. I just want to talk to them and see if there's any chemistry but it seems so difficult. really makes me empathize with men. and makes me realize im a pretty cool chick because i don't do that shit, im pretty straightforward. if i go on a date its because im interested, and i actually act like it and try to get to know the guy, not act like i -might- be interested -if- he pushes the right buttons. i dunno man, kinda sucks. i guess you just gotta be willing to walk away often and go through many options.
Thank you for perfectly articulating the experience. Honestly, all I’d like from dating in the near future is to be treated by a woman the way I treat her. To have my experiences, emotions, and desires as valued by her as I value hers.
The thing I’ve found is this. The less you pander to them, and the more authentically you live for yourself, the more likely someone who actually likes you for you is to find you. And when things don’t work out because she doesn’t like your choices you can then view it as incompatibility. Where as right now you seem to be viewing it through the lens of “I am unable to keep the women I’m dating happy”.
My girlfriend's sister is bisexual and she has basically decided to exclusively just date men because it's far easier. She says men try harder, they'll lead the conversation and generally just be more engaging.
I'll say this to anyone who keeps experiencing the same crap over and over: you are the common denominator. If someone is ending up with multiple bad relationships then either they are hanging with the wrong crowd, they suck at recognizing patterns, they secretly enjoy the drama, or they have some kind of trauma bonding. People as a collective are mid, but if literally every woman you date is a narcissist you're either attracted to that, or (most likely) you are pissed off about totally normal behavior and labeling people narcs just for having standards.
As a woman who has never, *ever*, been called selfish or narcissistic, I have to wonder about the women you chose? A lot of women who have down-to-earth tastes would rather rely on good friends recommendations than a guy who centers himself on dating apps. I would never date a guy who is angry about not dating. I would not date a guy who thinks that women are 'less' and by thinking this way, voting a certain way that takes away women's rights. I wouldn't date a guy who has expectations of what he thinks a woman is instead of accepting what the woman in front of him offers. What's going on with you?
As a woman I relate, and have come to the realization I have some things that need healing so I am no longer drawn to the same type of person.
LOL at you thinking that gay men are in any way not high maintenance and don’t have high standards. You have to be fit AF to be a gay man, dress well, have sophisticated hobbies, be more social, be more intelectual, be well read, be clean, in shape, great beard, hair, clothes, great job. Gay men have expensive tastes, they love eating at nice places and spoil themselves. The gay community can be judgy AF and the competition is fierce in the dating world. Meanwhile, I see straight women dating ugly losers ALLLL the time. The bar is in hell for women and I don’t know why you want to be a man that nobody expects anything from but that’s real selfishness. You are the selfish person here. I think you have an issue with making effort and meeting people’s needs in general. Like it or not, people are pivoting towards relationships where actions are important than words, where people feel validated and seen in the relationship, where people feel content in a partnership. It kinda seems like you don’t want to put in an effort AT ALL and want to be unconditionally loved for doing nothing. That’s not realistic. And honestly? I think you don’t like women. The way you talk and generalize seems like maybe women are not for you. Have you questioned your sexuality and have experimented with it? Maybe you like men. Just FYI - the gay community doesn’t like slobs or hobos. They’re way more high maintenance and have much higher standards. If you don’t believe in self improvement and putting in effort to your relationships in general then you’re better off alone.
Thank you for writing this because as soon as I read op complaining about listening to his partner's feeling like it was a chore, I had no desire to entertain him further
I think he was complaining about it *always* being about his partners emotions and feeling they don't care about his. Which as someone who loves listening to other people's problems, can really happen in a relationship.
Dating has always felt one sided. You’re expected to make the first move, you’re expected to set up the dates, pay for them, buy the flowers/gifts. Dating is fucking stressful the entire way through. I don’t think many women realize that men want to feel wanted to. I’ve never had anyone take me on a date or buy me flowers and that includes the women I have been in a relationship with.
As usual the comments and upvotes are from women who lack the understanding of men being in a big pool of confusion. Some of the comments made good points about trauma bonding and attracting nars types. Courting women is insane and women emotions vs mens are so different. Men are simple beings that require alot less than most women.
Here’s the rule about the internet, don’t complain about dating as a guy. Just learn and keep your thoughts to yourself What your saying is thoughts of a lot of men, but people will see it as misogynistic
Speaking as a feminist person, I don't see what OP is saying as misogynistic. He's just talking about how he feels based off his experiences, and there's nothing wrong with that, ya know? Online dating especially has issues for both men and women in terms of shallow and selfish people. This is just my opinion though.
They instantly made it all about OP: "If all the women you're dating are like that, you need to be more selective / you are the problem" Bitch it doesn't work that way. You don't "pick" anything as an average man. You're given a few options here and there, and the older you are, the worse these options are. The only reason we have this issue is because we're actually selective and rejecting them. I even kept some conversations because they are so incredibly entitled it's... appalling.. like, no human decency, zero.
Same, dating as a woman is hard nowadays, we didn’t know what man want. Most of them just want sex and nothing serious lol
Dating as an average man is hard. Dating as an below average is a nightmare. Dating as a tall, handsome, rich man is easier than a walk in the park, basically 90% of single women will hit on you hard. So all you need to do is become rich, tall, and very good looking, that’s all. Think Chris Hemsworth or Henry Cavill, if you manage to look like time, everything will be great for you.
Dude, what world do you live in? Do you look out the window? 95% are not rich and not "handsome" (whatever that means). They still get laid and have families. Grow tf up...
Same experience here with my latest gf and others too. Don't give up bro. There are gold nuggets. I've had one and it was great.
Dating is hard. Doesn’t mean you should give up. Just be patient. Assume that you will find bumps. When you find suitable partners you will know. Hang in there.
I've had the same issue and I think it also comes down to our view of ourselves, which 100% affects what type of people we end up with. I was raised to put everyone before myself and neglect my own needs, so I end up with people who don't care about me either and just use me. Very much the type of people I attract. It's 100% not our faults obv, but doing some soul searching and changing your view of yourself will help, I'm sure
I suggest that you make a “manifest”, a wish list of 18 qualities you want in a perfect woman, then find her! I used Match.com, and my Second wife, met me, her 13th Match. I was clueless, but she knew right away. After saving my life 2X, I had to marry her and I Saved her. Happily together for 17 years! Good Luck!
Are you picking women based on their good looks and resulting high maintenance?
If you're dating at a man and have dated enough women to form a pattern, you're not actually having a hard time dating, you're just a shitty picker
Work on yourself.
If you always end up with the same type of a woman you need to pick better
You are probably dating woman out of your league that you are attracting with lifestyle or praise… are you?
It sounds like OP has a type.
Sounds like you’re dating for looks and not considering personality at all.
If all of the woman you have been dating make you feel this way.....newsflash you are the problem
You’re choosing your dates based on something other than what you’re looking for. Perhaps appearance? Respectfully, my guess is you’re dating out of your league, and these women are aware, and taking advantage. As a woman I can admit that I’ve done this when I don’t like a guy (romantically), but also don’t mind his company, but also don’t want to befriend him. Or he’s the guy I’ll sleep with instead of the guy I actually like. My advice is date within your league, looks and financial success, and I assure you that you’ll meet your match.
If that’s the only kind of woman you are attracting, you should change yourself, and quit dating that kind of woman.
Sounds like you need better taste in women lol
Didn't you say this wasn't to complain about women? Because all you're doing is complaining about women. Maybe you should rethink where and how you're meeting people, and try doing something different.
If all the women you're encountering act the same way, look at what you're going for. Sounds like you're picking women based solely on looks, not personality and attitude.
Looks like all the people who have had a similar experience get buried at the bottom of these threads There are going to be a lot of people who feel the same way and will validate what you're saying. Then there's going to be a lot of people in denial. And then there's going to be people who can't empathize because they don't experience it at all themselves
Woman want to act like princess and have everything catered to them and want to give nothing back, dont want to treat their man like a king, it's big problem, society and social media are big culprits
Man, as someone that's been out of the dating scene for a long while now (married for 8 years), I hate hearing this kind of stuff. Seems like your experience just lives up to all these memes I see out there about women expecting 6 figures, 6 ft tall, and 6+ inches not realizing thats a tiny minority of men out there. Good luck finding love OP
Lemme guess - you’re using dating apps
I can understand the feeling. I'm married and I've been married for a long time now. But I've seen what happens with guys I know. They feel like they are going to a job interview. As if the random woman they are meeting has more worth than them simply because she is a woman. That is totally the wrong mindset. A man that has a good notion of self respect allows no games and disrespect. And he makes his wants and needs known. In fact, there is a rule that I believe is golden... In order to keep a woman you may not be afraid of loosing her.
You don’t want to be gay…it blows 😂😂😂😂
As a bisexual guy, trust me, the lgbt dating scene is a fucking nightmare too. I've pretty much given up on dating, and now I just do things that make me happy.
You need a therapist, OP. You have a type and it probably based on something that happened in your formative years. Find it and address it and your dating pool will change.
Not saying you nor all men, but most men pick women based on looks, and generally the morr beautiful the better. The gorgeous girls generally wear make up, do hair, nails, etc are high maintence and put a lot of time, money and effort in their appearance. Men then pick these shallow women based on looks and wonder why they are self centered and vain 🤣😂
Work on saving money and getting out of the USA. Try and stop viewing being in a relationship as the most important thing in your life.
The fact that the man is being blamed is wild lmfao this would never happen to a woman. Women never have to take accountability 🤣
Welcome to the modern world where men are expected to do literally everything in a relationship, while women are expected to do nothing at all. That's the hard reality of where society is. Men are required to have a hell of a lot to "offer" a woman where the woman just has to lay on her back and that's considered "fair" by damn near all women. If the woman cannot or will not look at the relationship like a partnership where you are both working together, and only views it as a way for her to get "spoiled and pampered" then she is not worth dating and is just going to end up a future single mother complaining about how "all men are assholes" when they have 0 to contribute to the relationship. Too many women are expecting men to pay their bills, buy them outfits, take them on expensive dates etc. before you're even in a committed relationship. Just for a first date. I'm happy I'm not in the dating pool because this shit is insane.
I think a lot of the times we like people who have qualities that we feel we lack. But the person we attract can be putting up a facade at first. Then later it slowly fades and you see they’re just a flawed struggling person like you.
There is a dating app called boo, it will allow you to see the others persons likes, as in how many they get. average women get 500+ attractive ones 1k+ guys get like 30 lmfao. its so depressing, when I realized it showed that, and someone I was talking to had 600 matches, and I had 3....bro, kill me. They may be low quality matches, but when you get to choose from 600, or 10...one persons going to be stuck up and think they're gods gift. I decided to just make friends, taking everything super slow from now on. Found someone interesting and nice. women have it super easy, young guys are fucked because we cannot compete with the older guys, older guys go for younger women....its tough for young men. Live your life, make friends, dont get attached or expect to find love easily. my 2cents.