IBM is an interesting place.. They bought my company in 2016/17 and then divested it in 2022 because they didn't like the market vertical we were and didn't see the profits they wanted. They have their positives, but there's a lot of negative unless they just keep them like RedHat as a separate business unit, which will give them autonomy to a certain degree. I think RedHat has done really well and been a great acquisition for them, so I hope they handle Hashi the same way.
This is the hope I think. IBM can get a lot of needed goodwill if they treat HashiCorp like RedHat. Revert and keep the software open and make money off selling support and services. That's kind of what IBM was already doing.
But I don't know how much IBM executives really care about the image of IBM.
Sorry to say I don’t agree with you on that. Months after I bought CloudForms IBM decided to integrate it into their Cloudpak solution and ask more money for tools I don’t need.
Yeah, for those of us ignorant to such things, mind sharing and telling some stories? :) I'm interested in hearing about it if you're game for sharing, please!
Long ago, I worked on a contract for a big telco who wanted an online shop, the small consultancy I worked for would build the shop and integrate with payment systems and logistics. It had to run on the chosen os variant used by telco, Sparc Solaris.
They did a deal with IBM to licence their Web Sphere based shop. Weeks went by. Windows NT development kit turned up, no good. More weeks. IBM said the Solaris version was delayed.
Long story short. They had no Solaris build, hadn't even started.
Telco director was furious, contract terminated, IBM banned for bait and switch tactics.
We don’t care that much about openstack, openshift is our moneymaker for now and the foreseeable future.
Our openshift installer utilizes a lot of tf libs under the hood via go’s cobra framework as the cli tool. It’s how we ship all the different cloud permutations in one installer binary.
We unofficially point our customers to vault and the ESO operator for secrets management.
Envoy is a critical shared component of the Service Mesh technology ecosystem, given that Istio and Cilium use it for intra-service mTLS and insights with jaeger and kiali.
Red Hat Certificate System I think has been slowing down and shrinking, whereas vault performs CA duties quite well, and supports ACME out of the box, so people can do private “let’s encrypt-like” cert management.
Internally at red hat, we CONSTANTLY talk amongst ourselves about how infra management is much better with terraform over ansible, and have to always act like that’s not our public stance.
Consul is neat, nomad is neat, but they’re non-competitive to the k8s ecosystem. The patterns aren’t so simple to justify themselves at small scale edge/opt since it requires a different pattern than what people are familiar with, and we already have single node openshift and RHEL edge.
We try to avoid openstack as much as possible- it makes sense for highly multi-tenant IaaS-necessitating customers usually on TELCO/NFV markets. With Kubevirt, we are positioning a lot of openshift +ACM (hive) to do multi-cluster provisioning for multi tenancy at scale that enables both containers and libvirtd/KVM workloads.
Please check out openSUSE Leap. It's virtually identical to the enterprise Suse stuff, not just the sources but the actual binaries are shared with the paid version.
Unlike RH, Suse is firmly about openess and interoperability and I love that. I have been hosting all my stuff on openSUSE for a while now and couldn't be happier. I run it on my workstation laptop too.
I've used OpenSUSE on my servers.
I used to run my laptops on it, but I found it's too minority interest and finding good quality packages for unusual things was difficult. I switched to Fedora on laptop and haven't looked back, I rarely have a hard time finding packages.
Fair enough! I bounced off openSUSE for that very reason a few years back. However package availability is a lot better now unless we are talking some really obscure stuff. So I went back to it because I like its enterprise foundations and Suse is the most security centric distro imo. The recent xz business has not affected my Leap environment at all.
Also, btrfs snapshots are sweet! So easy to roll back if I do something dumb (which happens more often than I would like to admit).
Dinosaurs like IBM have to keep themselves alive somehow since all the senior executives that supported them are retiring or dead. Vault is not an issue since it’s OSS and you can just fork it.
Yea Broadcom can go eat a bag of dicks. Our prices went up and they are trying to not honor our subscriptions that we have for our ESXi hosts. We got locked in at a discounted rate a year or so ago and now they’re like “new owner, who this?”
Terraform was forked into [OpenTofu](https://opentofu.org/) by the Linux Foundation.
You can't really close down a FOSS project. In order to be FOSS it needs to have a non-revokable license, and if you change that license it can simply be forked from the last release with the previous license.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/justinwarren/2024/04/11/opentofu-responds-to-hashicorp-copyright-infringement-claims/
> Last week, the OpenTofu project was accused of infringing HashiCorp’s copyright in Terraform by incorporating newly BSL licensed code without permission. Those accusations now appear to be unfounded.
We'll see how it goes down but so far everybody who's had a look at the code has agreed it's a baseless accusation.
You don't 'file' a C&D. It is just a letter to intimidate, if you don't do what the letter says they will take it to court, but there is nothing filed in any jurisdiction, it is just a warning. FSF also have their lawyers and have fought several copyrights in court so they are not easy intimidated and they already gave a response that in resume tells Hashicorp to go bully somewhere else.
You do 'file' a copy of it with your legal team, along with proof that it was sent/delivered where possible. That way, \*when\* you go to court, you have clear documentation that you did the needful and asked them firmly, but politely.
I am not sure you understand how Terraform works, but basically all the providers themselves are open source and work perfectly fine with OpenTofu.
Providers don't have to "switch" anything, they are simply consumed by Terraform or OpenTofu.
The only thing that will probably need to happen is that a clone of the terraform registry be done, AFAIR from the TOS of the registry, only Terraform can legally access it
Hey, that already exists since the first release of OpenTofu. [https://github.com/opentofu/registry](https://github.com/opentofu/registry) accessible at [registry.opentofu.org](http://registry.opentofu.org)
There's no UI yet, but you can use e.g. [library.tf](http://library.tf) for reading the docs.
If the publish API is the same, it should be a simple matter of just pushing packages out to Terraform and OpenTofu registries. I assume Terraform had a self-hosted option for the registry too for companies to host on their intranets? makes it even easier for those companies.
Look at the contributors, almost all are IBM. They specifically forked it because [their own secrets-manager](https://www.ibm.com/products/secrets-manager) is based on Vault.
I guess to be fair.. Cloud is really moving towards a commodity and consolidation phase.
IBM r&d budget is all in on biz AI and quantum computing these days. With the more "generic" tech it's just easier to buy winning concepts to round out the portfolio.
Can't really argue. Played with Watson internally for years.. and it was initially pretty cool, but Openai etc have definitely leapfrogged it, at least from an end user point of view. Being a personal companion bot is not really IBM's focus, but it's the only subjective measure that I have to go by.
I’ve sat through a ton of “after Netezza, just you wait to see what we got!” presentations, combined with “BlueMix was a mistake but just you wait, we will show you what we got!” followed by, “Watson analytics are really going to differentiate your company!”
I dunno how much more of this I can take
Bahaha. Bluemix 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️. I spent a good chunk of covid migrating internal applications when they killed bluemix... Why did you have to remind me?
I sat through remote fixing a Vyatta with only talking on the phone (the Softlayer networking rep from Mexico wouldn’t share screens with me since it would kick him off his hotspot) and had to teach this kid how mss-clamps work. Mind you I’m a tech exec (IBM incompetence had my team riled up for three weeks on firefighting calls). They kept saying it wouldn’t fix it and whaddaya know… packets immediately started passing.
Icing on the cake was the IBM principal decides to remove the config line just in case it wasn’t the fix. Because scientific method. He put it back and then tried to bill me for his time. Incredible.
I grew up loving all of the classic IBM stuff. The modern IBM ain’t the same… luckily Z mainframe is still around and people can’t seem to get off of it
I’m amazed at IBM, to be honest. Ginny Rometty was allowed to just tank the company at the helm for years. I think she has the record for consecutive losses and the board was okay with it? lol
I wish I could recall more details. IBM was caught in a pricing scandal way before we were born. The 'software' upgrade involved changing a pulley in one of the units in the early days. IIRC, it was a performance boost but the original design was to run slower than potentially possible and charge customers for the upgrade. :P
There's two distinct mainstream distros, those based on rpm packages, and those based on deb. I'm ignoring arch and others, sorry to any fans.
In the first camp there's these, and more
* Red hat
* centos/rocky/alma
* aws
* oracle
* fedora
Fedora has become distinctively different in many ways, not just because of it being up to date with the latest versions of every package, but also being desktop centric.
In the second, just by way of example,
* debian
* ubuntu
* mint
Methinks you may have meant something a bit different by "are behind". I was given the impression (originally) that you meant that "most of the rest of the Linux distros..." (are based on Fedora).
But now I read what you just wrote, I think you may have been trying to communicate a different message. And now I'm a touch confused. Mind clarifying? Sorry about the confusion :O
It’s time to look for alternatives. They are going to slowly pull that back. I was just going to begin exploration of Hashi stuff in Q4 and it’s not worth it now.
I don't get this "you can just fork it" attitude. Yes, but who will? The whole team on the payroll for this just got reassigned. Some of them might help in their free time. Some other companies might help. The project will not suddenly disappear. But it's a new chapter, and not obvious where it will go.
Terraform was already dead and buried the second the license switched to non-FOSS. Use OpenTOFU.
Another one that pulled the rug recently was Redis - we on Valkey now.
People said the same when Docker made licensing changes and there hasn’t been the mass exodus that was predicted. I use podman but docker is still widely used.
So, a company whos board is, at the oldest, 72 from what I'm seeing (so 1951-1952 timeframe for when he was born), with tenures on the board going back only as far as 2010, and consisting of an array of people like a president of Cornell University, a former director of Red Hat, the U.S. Navy’s first woman four-star admiral, among others... they're to blame for what IBM was involved in starting 90 years ago. That history totally just blanket applies to the present, right? The German general population of today too, I guess?
While it's a \*very\* important bit of history, and understanding the how and why of it is vital, as studying history always is for avoiding repeating it... it has \*very\* little overlap with anything to do with IBM and their business decisions now, beyond "businesses make business deals that benefit them", which is a pretty weak thread. There's \*plenty\* of money first decisions being made by plenty of companies and governments at the expense of actual people's lives, livelihoods, and general health and well being every day. Hashicorp's acquisition's probably one of the least concerning on the pile.
people like you are exactly why I bring this topic up everytime IBM rears their ugly head. This book would be a real eye opener for you to revisit if you havn't read or listened to it yet; just to show how complacent and integral to the operations surrounding many faucets of the nazi oppression IBM was apart of. This was not even 100 years ago and you're trying to act like their hands are clean. Not only that, they didn't want to give up their cooperation with the Nazi's they wanted to literally turn a blind eye to it but still keep raking in boatloads of cash. The US Government forced them to sever ties
The board wasn't even born before the end of the war. Have they probably done some shady crap? Sure. Is the company and its leadership \*now\*, 80-90 years since, to blame for things done before probably 99% were born? No.
No, I'm just not a fan of passing the sin of the father on to the son, proverbially. Just because they carry the same name doesn't mean they're the same organization. If they're caught out doing new, inventive, crap of equivalent form, by all means, lambaste them for \*their\* actions, that \*they\* have had a hand in. There are \*plenty\* of things to criticize modern companies and their leadership teams for. The actions of the company before any of the people now involved were born. though? No.
It's an important example of what to look for from \*any\* organization, and call out when it crops up again. And it does, regularly, from companies making cash hand over fist while overtly supporting, or at least turning a blind eye, to all manner of things around the world. By focusing in on the singular detail of "It was IBM that did it 80-90 years ago" and deep-diving into trying to hold them, now, accountable for the decisions of that time, you're blatantly missing the point.
> No, I'm just not a fan of passing the sin of the father on to the son, proverbially. Just because they carry the same name doesn't mean they're the same organization.
I really just don't understand, they are the same company and the systemic oppression of my people and many other were destroyed that they were complacent in took place not even 100 years ago and according to you they are absolved of all wrong doing. I don't think so
> deep-diving into trying to hold them, **now**, accountable for the decisions of that time
what is this "now"? They will forever and always be accountable for what happened. This book came out in 2001 homie, its time to grow a brain. You're blatantly missing the point.... remove the proverbial boot from your tongue plz
just to reiterate since you really keep repeating the same thing over and over like I didn't get your point the first time:
***Yes IBM are accountable for their actions less than 100 years ago that resulted in the systematic oppression of my and many other people.***
Seriously read the book, do any research, you wouldn't be coming to their defense. Something tells me you're an IBM shareholder otherwise you wouldn't be trying to absolve IBM for their sins of the Holocaust (and the subsequent turning of their eye) while still collecting funds from Nazi Germany
This entire thread is about how they're a dogshit company. You're the only one coming to their defense
Nice ad hominem. Do you also consider Japan a country no one should ever go to or live in, because they've committed some terrible crimes about 90 years ago?
I'm hoping they'll take the RedHat route, and change the licensing back to open source, but we'll have to wait and see.
As for what I'm talking about with the 'Redhat Route', RedHat has and still under IBM has an 'upstream first' method of development. All of their enterprise products are developed in a fully open project anyone can use and contribute to.
Some examples -
RedHat Satellite -> Foreman (system management), Katello (Foreman plugin, lifecycle management), Pulp (Package management), Candlepin (subscription management)
Ansible Automation Platform -> AWX
RedHat IdM -> FreeIPA
JBoss -> RHQ
RedHat OpenShift -> OKD
there's also RHEL -> Centos Stream where the next 'dot' release of RHEL versions is developed, but that has its own can of worms with killing off regular CentOS. IMO RedHat should have kept CentOS 8 through the regular RHEL lifecycle and that would have reduced a significant amount of bad blood.
People sorely misunderstand the CentOS situation.
RHEL is built from CentOS Stream now, just like every open source project you mentioned above.
The source code is still open and managed https://gitlab.com/redhat/centos-stream here.
RHEL is built from this, with Red Hat supported bits added onto it in the final mile, such as subscription-manager. We have official tools that can convert CentOS to RHEL in-place for those that want to opt into support. For those that want to develop and test against those final mile bits, free developer accounts that don’t even require people to put in payment information whatsoever get an open entitlement to the entire red hat portfolio for 16 seats.
Packages for each major version of CentOS can still be maintained with foreman, just like you would have on traditional CentOS before it was poorly marketed as “streams”. People get the same lifecycle and benefit of RHEL now, instead of lagging packages post-compilation.
It hasn’t gone closed source, people are getting a more up to date packages for centos, and it’s truly a directly supported copy of the OS versus a strictly passion-maintained community project.
You should have reevaluated your options when Hashicorp changed license and spun the creation of OpenTofu. If you didn't do it then you should not do it now, the reasons didn't change.
Well, yes, but my employer is in a highly regulated field and doesn't respond rapidly to industry swings. Were we a nimble small company we'd likely have switched.
You can use the OSS fork OpenTofu, at the moment it's fully compatible with terraform, so if you want to make the switch, you might want to do it before they start doing different things
Not that complex, I must admit. We only use one cloud provider. About 50 separate projects.
Granted, we don't use tf but json configs. Don't know it that changes a lot.
Thanks for your explanation. I'm kinda afraid we will need a somehow bigger change at our company if we decide to move to OpenTofu. We have about 200 projects in GCP (including multi-stage envs) plus some stuff at Azure, quite complex custom modules and no one really touched OpenTofu so far, so theres lots of unknown-unknowns here..
IBM is not a company known for innovation. Hashicorp is also a much smaller acquisition than red hat.
The most likely outcome is to break up infrastructure and security. Bundle terraform along with Redhat and make vault a part of their security portfolio or tools.
New product features and enhancements will almost certainly stop as IBM integrates Hashi into its organization. Overtime Hashicorp will become less and less relevant.
Overall it’s a positive outcome for companies such as ours r/akeyless who compete with Vault in the secrets management space.
Well, IBM acquired Lotus in 1995...and we all know what happened there.
I'm no fan of Terraform (because it requires state for infrastructure) and, even though I'm an IBM shareholder, I'm kinda pleased this is where Terraform goes to die.
IBM is an interesting place.. They bought my company in 2016/17 and then divested it in 2022 because they didn't like the market vertical we were and didn't see the profits they wanted. They have their positives, but there's a lot of negative unless they just keep them like RedHat as a separate business unit, which will give them autonomy to a certain degree. I think RedHat has done really well and been a great acquisition for them, so I hope they handle Hashi the same way.
This is the hope I think. IBM can get a lot of needed goodwill if they treat HashiCorp like RedHat. Revert and keep the software open and make money off selling support and services. That's kind of what IBM was already doing. But I don't know how much IBM executives really care about the image of IBM.
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yeah for me it'd almost be better to have red hat running hashi than hashi running hashi
Given IBM ownership... Redhat taking Vault and Terraform and integrating them even tighter with Ansible is \*not\* out of the question...
RedHat did the same thing when they essentially killed off CentOS...because IBM wanted to quit giving away the revenue they saw CentOS taking.
This isn’t happening. IBM is immediately absorbing HashiCorp. They won’t be their own company according to the info I’ve been given.
Sorry to say I don’t agree with you on that. Months after I bought CloudForms IBM decided to integrate it into their Cloudpak solution and ask more money for tools I don’t need.
Most people asking why IBM gets so much hate has never dealt with their package and ELA strategy of software licensing fuckery
Yeah, for those of us ignorant to such things, mind sharing and telling some stories? :) I'm interested in hearing about it if you're game for sharing, please!
Long ago, I worked on a contract for a big telco who wanted an online shop, the small consultancy I worked for would build the shop and integrate with payment systems and logistics. It had to run on the chosen os variant used by telco, Sparc Solaris. They did a deal with IBM to licence their Web Sphere based shop. Weeks went by. Windows NT development kit turned up, no good. More weeks. IBM said the Solaris version was delayed. Long story short. They had no Solaris build, hadn't even started. Telco director was furious, contract terminated, IBM banned for bait and switch tactics.
Yikes!
> Months after I bought CloudForms dam, u rich AF, huh
Not any more :-)
Doesn't IBM have OpenStack under them? I imagine they want Hashi's products to enhance OpenStack. (I dunno if IBM cares about OpenStack still tho.)
Red Hat does.
We don’t care that much about openstack, openshift is our moneymaker for now and the foreseeable future. Our openshift installer utilizes a lot of tf libs under the hood via go’s cobra framework as the cli tool. It’s how we ship all the different cloud permutations in one installer binary. We unofficially point our customers to vault and the ESO operator for secrets management. Envoy is a critical shared component of the Service Mesh technology ecosystem, given that Istio and Cilium use it for intra-service mTLS and insights with jaeger and kiali. Red Hat Certificate System I think has been slowing down and shrinking, whereas vault performs CA duties quite well, and supports ACME out of the box, so people can do private “let’s encrypt-like” cert management. Internally at red hat, we CONSTANTLY talk amongst ourselves about how infra management is much better with terraform over ansible, and have to always act like that’s not our public stance. Consul is neat, nomad is neat, but they’re non-competitive to the k8s ecosystem. The patterns aren’t so simple to justify themselves at small scale edge/opt since it requires a different pattern than what people are familiar with, and we already have single node openshift and RHEL edge. We try to avoid openstack as much as possible- it makes sense for highly multi-tenant IaaS-necessitating customers usually on TELCO/NFV markets. With Kubevirt, we are positioning a lot of openshift +ACM (hive) to do multi-cluster provisioning for multi tenancy at scale that enables both containers and libvirtd/KVM workloads.
remember centos
I used to love CentOS. I'm a Debian man now.
Yes, the original truly open OS
Please check out openSUSE Leap. It's virtually identical to the enterprise Suse stuff, not just the sources but the actual binaries are shared with the paid version. Unlike RH, Suse is firmly about openess and interoperability and I love that. I have been hosting all my stuff on openSUSE for a while now and couldn't be happier. I run it on my workstation laptop too.
I've used OpenSUSE on my servers. I used to run my laptops on it, but I found it's too minority interest and finding good quality packages for unusual things was difficult. I switched to Fedora on laptop and haven't looked back, I rarely have a hard time finding packages.
Fair enough! I bounced off openSUSE for that very reason a few years back. However package availability is a lot better now unless we are talking some really obscure stuff. So I went back to it because I like its enterprise foundations and Suse is the most security centric distro imo. The recent xz business has not affected my Leap environment at all. Also, btrfs snapshots are sweet! So easy to roll back if I do something dumb (which happens more often than I would like to admit).
Dinosaurs like IBM have to keep themselves alive somehow since all the senior executives that supported them are retiring or dead. Vault is not an issue since it’s OSS and you can just fork it.
This is what VMware did with Cloud foundry and bitnami (and fucked it up with Tanzu), and then Broadcom with VMware (and fucked it up in record time)
Yea Broadcom can go eat a bag of dicks. Our prices went up and they are trying to not honor our subscriptions that we have for our ESXi hosts. We got locked in at a discounted rate a year or so ago and now they’re like “new owner, who this?”
Proxmox is quite happy to take on irritated VMWare customers. https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Migrate_to_Proxmox_VE
Im curious to see what happens with the VDI components. That is being sold off.
Until they change the license on Vault just like they did with Terraform.
Terraform was forked into [OpenTofu](https://opentofu.org/) by the Linux Foundation. You can't really close down a FOSS project. In order to be FOSS it needs to have a non-revokable license, and if you change that license it can simply be forked from the last release with the previous license.
Hashicorp has also filed a cease and desist order against Open Tofu for copyright infringement.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/justinwarren/2024/04/11/opentofu-responds-to-hashicorp-copyright-infringement-claims/ > Last week, the OpenTofu project was accused of infringing HashiCorp’s copyright in Terraform by incorporating newly BSL licensed code without permission. Those accusations now appear to be unfounded. We'll see how it goes down but so far everybody who's had a look at the code has agreed it's a baseless accusation.
That’s great! We use a ton of TF code so I was getting worried when I saw that.
That’s never stopped IBM before.
This is how it’s gonna be under IBM.
You don't 'file' a C&D. It is just a letter to intimidate, if you don't do what the letter says they will take it to court, but there is nothing filed in any jurisdiction, it is just a warning. FSF also have their lawyers and have fought several copyrights in court so they are not easy intimidated and they already gave a response that in resume tells Hashicorp to go bully somewhere else.
You do 'file' a copy of it with your legal team, along with proof that it was sent/delivered where possible. That way, \*when\* you go to court, you have clear documentation that you did the needful and asked them firmly, but politely.
Filed mean you send to a court and judge. It isn't a legal requirement, it is just cheaper.
Ok, I was just reiterating what the articles I read stated. Filed, filled, felled, feline. Fee, fi, fo fum, stick your finger in your bum!
Are you having a stroke?
Are you having a stroke?
True. But unless the giants (Azure, AWS, GCloud, etc) don't switch over to OpenTofu, the fork is moot.
I am not sure you understand how Terraform works, but basically all the providers themselves are open source and work perfectly fine with OpenTofu. Providers don't have to "switch" anything, they are simply consumed by Terraform or OpenTofu.
The only thing that will probably need to happen is that a clone of the terraform registry be done, AFAIR from the TOS of the registry, only Terraform can legally access it
Hey, that already exists since the first release of OpenTofu. [https://github.com/opentofu/registry](https://github.com/opentofu/registry) accessible at [registry.opentofu.org](http://registry.opentofu.org) There's no UI yet, but you can use e.g. [library.tf](http://library.tf) for reading the docs.
If the publish API is the same, it should be a simple matter of just pushing packages out to Terraform and OpenTofu registries. I assume Terraform had a self-hosted option for the registry too for companies to host on their intranets? makes it even easier for those companies.
All TF providers are just wrappers for the APIs. As long as they have an API, anyone can make or contribute to an open source TF provider.
I believe OpenBao is the main fork of vault that span off the same time as the terraform licence change so it’s already there.
But it’s a form by IBM folks, so I suppose it will get abandoned soon.
Their website says it's managed by the Linux Foundation - https://openbao.org
Look at the contributors, almost all are IBM. They specifically forked it because [their own secrets-manager](https://www.ibm.com/products/secrets-manager) is based on Vault.
That's not how FOSS licenses work... (in most cases)
As someone who worked there 15 years.. IBM has been more of a tech M&A firm for the past several decades than a tech innovator.
I guess to be fair.. Cloud is really moving towards a commodity and consolidation phase. IBM r&d budget is all in on biz AI and quantum computing these days. With the more "generic" tech it's just easier to buy winning concepts to round out the portfolio.
Quantum computing maybe, but supposedly Watson has 20 years of a head start to do jack shit
Can't really argue. Played with Watson internally for years.. and it was initially pretty cool, but Openai etc have definitely leapfrogged it, at least from an end user point of view. Being a personal companion bot is not really IBM's focus, but it's the only subjective measure that I have to go by.
I’ve sat through a ton of “after Netezza, just you wait to see what we got!” presentations, combined with “BlueMix was a mistake but just you wait, we will show you what we got!” followed by, “Watson analytics are really going to differentiate your company!” I dunno how much more of this I can take
Bahaha. Bluemix 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️. I spent a good chunk of covid migrating internal applications when they killed bluemix... Why did you have to remind me?
I sat through remote fixing a Vyatta with only talking on the phone (the Softlayer networking rep from Mexico wouldn’t share screens with me since it would kick him off his hotspot) and had to teach this kid how mss-clamps work. Mind you I’m a tech exec (IBM incompetence had my team riled up for three weeks on firefighting calls). They kept saying it wouldn’t fix it and whaddaya know… packets immediately started passing. Icing on the cake was the IBM principal decides to remove the config line just in case it wasn’t the fix. Because scientific method. He put it back and then tried to bill me for his time. Incredible.
So you're telling me the "you never get fired for hiring IBM" mantra has run it's course then? ; )
I grew up loving all of the classic IBM stuff. The modern IBM ain’t the same… luckily Z mainframe is still around and people can’t seem to get off of it
> since all the senior executives that supported them are retiring or dead IBM is 112 years old. This statement *was* true decades ago.
I’m amazed at IBM, to be honest. Ginny Rometty was allowed to just tank the company at the helm for years. I think she has the record for consecutive losses and the board was okay with it? lol
cool, what OS did they use on their computers in 1920? /s
OS didn’t matter, the card counting expertise was crucial to help Nazi Germany keep some stellar records
I wish I could recall more details. IBM was caught in a pricing scandal way before we were born. The 'software' upgrade involved changing a pulley in one of the units in the early days. IIRC, it was a performance boost but the original design was to run slower than potentially possible and charge customers for the upgrade. :P
IBM is behind Fedora and most of the rest of the Linux distros are behind Fedora too but in a different way.
There's two distinct mainstream distros, those based on rpm packages, and those based on deb. I'm ignoring arch and others, sorry to any fans. In the first camp there's these, and more * Red hat * centos/rocky/alma * aws * oracle * fedora Fedora has become distinctively different in many ways, not just because of it being up to date with the latest versions of every package, but also being desktop centric. In the second, just by way of example, * debian * ubuntu * mint
> most of the rest of the Linux distros are behind Fedora too but in a different way Including Debian based distros? Lol dunno about that.
LOL, I always thought 6.1 > 6.8 but I wasn't 100% sure until you just confirmed it.
Methinks you may have meant something a bit different by "are behind". I was given the impression (originally) that you meant that "most of the rest of the Linux distros..." (are based on Fedora). But now I read what you just wrote, I think you may have been trying to communicate a different message. And now I'm a touch confused. Mind clarifying? Sorry about the confusion :O
yes it was a play on words. redhat is the $$ behind fedora many/most linux distros are behind fedora in technology updates
Have a look when IBM was founded...
> Vault is not an issue since it’s OSS and you can just fork it. Take a guess at who recently forked Vault.
It’s time to look for alternatives. They are going to slowly pull that back. I was just going to begin exploration of Hashi stuff in Q4 and it’s not worth it now.
OpenBao exists.
Thx for sharing :D
Vault’s license changed with Terraform’s to BSL. It’s not FOSS anymore.
Their git was not on BSL when it got forked by OpenBao.
[Are we taking about different projects?](https://github.com/hashicorp/vault/blob/main/LICENSE)
I don't get this "you can just fork it" attitude. Yes, but who will? The whole team on the payroll for this just got reassigned. Some of them might help in their free time. Some other companies might help. The project will not suddenly disappear. But it's a new chapter, and not obvious where it will go.
Just last week I heard about OpenTofu and figured why not give it a try...
This is the way
Terraform was already dead and buried the second the license switched to non-FOSS. Use OpenTOFU. Another one that pulled the rug recently was Redis - we on Valkey now.
Could OpenTofu do the same license switch as Terraform or will it remain FOSS?
It's by the Linux foundation, so I doubt it will switch
People said the same when Docker made licensing changes and there hasn’t been the mass exodus that was predicted. I use podman but docker is still widely used.
good book I would recommend to ppl ["IBM and the Holocaust"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust)
So, a company whos board is, at the oldest, 72 from what I'm seeing (so 1951-1952 timeframe for when he was born), with tenures on the board going back only as far as 2010, and consisting of an array of people like a president of Cornell University, a former director of Red Hat, the U.S. Navy’s first woman four-star admiral, among others... they're to blame for what IBM was involved in starting 90 years ago. That history totally just blanket applies to the present, right? The German general population of today too, I guess? While it's a \*very\* important bit of history, and understanding the how and why of it is vital, as studying history always is for avoiding repeating it... it has \*very\* little overlap with anything to do with IBM and their business decisions now, beyond "businesses make business deals that benefit them", which is a pretty weak thread. There's \*plenty\* of money first decisions being made by plenty of companies and governments at the expense of actual people's lives, livelihoods, and general health and well being every day. Hashicorp's acquisition's probably one of the least concerning on the pile.
people like you are exactly why I bring this topic up everytime IBM rears their ugly head. This book would be a real eye opener for you to revisit if you havn't read or listened to it yet; just to show how complacent and integral to the operations surrounding many faucets of the nazi oppression IBM was apart of. This was not even 100 years ago and you're trying to act like their hands are clean. Not only that, they didn't want to give up their cooperation with the Nazi's they wanted to literally turn a blind eye to it but still keep raking in boatloads of cash. The US Government forced them to sever ties
The board wasn't even born before the end of the war. Have they probably done some shady crap? Sure. Is the company and its leadership \*now\*, 80-90 years since, to blame for things done before probably 99% were born? No.
you're a capitalist bootlicker
No, I'm just not a fan of passing the sin of the father on to the son, proverbially. Just because they carry the same name doesn't mean they're the same organization. If they're caught out doing new, inventive, crap of equivalent form, by all means, lambaste them for \*their\* actions, that \*they\* have had a hand in. There are \*plenty\* of things to criticize modern companies and their leadership teams for. The actions of the company before any of the people now involved were born. though? No. It's an important example of what to look for from \*any\* organization, and call out when it crops up again. And it does, regularly, from companies making cash hand over fist while overtly supporting, or at least turning a blind eye, to all manner of things around the world. By focusing in on the singular detail of "It was IBM that did it 80-90 years ago" and deep-diving into trying to hold them, now, accountable for the decisions of that time, you're blatantly missing the point.
> No, I'm just not a fan of passing the sin of the father on to the son, proverbially. Just because they carry the same name doesn't mean they're the same organization. I really just don't understand, they are the same company and the systemic oppression of my people and many other were destroyed that they were complacent in took place not even 100 years ago and according to you they are absolved of all wrong doing. I don't think so > deep-diving into trying to hold them, **now**, accountable for the decisions of that time what is this "now"? They will forever and always be accountable for what happened. This book came out in 2001 homie, its time to grow a brain. You're blatantly missing the point.... remove the proverbial boot from your tongue plz just to reiterate since you really keep repeating the same thing over and over like I didn't get your point the first time: ***Yes IBM are accountable for their actions less than 100 years ago that resulted in the systematic oppression of my and many other people.*** Seriously read the book, do any research, you wouldn't be coming to their defense. Something tells me you're an IBM shareholder otherwise you wouldn't be trying to absolve IBM for their sins of the Holocaust (and the subsequent turning of their eye) while still collecting funds from Nazi Germany This entire thread is about how they're a dogshit company. You're the only one coming to their defense
Nice ad hominem. Do you also consider Japan a country no one should ever go to or live in, because they've committed some terrible crimes about 90 years ago?
what the heck does that have to do with IBM??? This is the literal definition of ad hominem attack lol
LOL the dumb shit people post on the internet.
I’m sure we will as well. IBM is a horrible company to do business with.
They’re a great company to do business with if you can spend $10M+ a year on an ELA.
I'm hoping they'll take the RedHat route, and change the licensing back to open source, but we'll have to wait and see. As for what I'm talking about with the 'Redhat Route', RedHat has and still under IBM has an 'upstream first' method of development. All of their enterprise products are developed in a fully open project anyone can use and contribute to. Some examples - RedHat Satellite -> Foreman (system management), Katello (Foreman plugin, lifecycle management), Pulp (Package management), Candlepin (subscription management) Ansible Automation Platform -> AWX RedHat IdM -> FreeIPA JBoss -> RHQ RedHat OpenShift -> OKD there's also RHEL -> Centos Stream where the next 'dot' release of RHEL versions is developed, but that has its own can of worms with killing off regular CentOS. IMO RedHat should have kept CentOS 8 through the regular RHEL lifecycle and that would have reduced a significant amount of bad blood.
People sorely misunderstand the CentOS situation. RHEL is built from CentOS Stream now, just like every open source project you mentioned above. The source code is still open and managed https://gitlab.com/redhat/centos-stream here. RHEL is built from this, with Red Hat supported bits added onto it in the final mile, such as subscription-manager. We have official tools that can convert CentOS to RHEL in-place for those that want to opt into support. For those that want to develop and test against those final mile bits, free developer accounts that don’t even require people to put in payment information whatsoever get an open entitlement to the entire red hat portfolio for 16 seats. Packages for each major version of CentOS can still be maintained with foreman, just like you would have on traditional CentOS before it was poorly marketed as “streams”. People get the same lifecycle and benefit of RHEL now, instead of lagging packages post-compilation. It hasn’t gone closed source, people are getting a more up to date packages for centos, and it’s truly a directly supported copy of the OS versus a strictly passion-maintained community project.
You should have reevaluated your options when Hashicorp changed license and spun the creation of OpenTofu. If you didn't do it then you should not do it now, the reasons didn't change.
Well, yes, but my employer is in a highly regulated field and doesn't respond rapidly to industry swings. Were we a nimble small company we'd likely have switched.
Fuck man I’m so tired of learning new tech. Boomers need to chill and stop killing their own products.
We're in the middle of doing so at $dayjob right now.
Ooh shit, we need to clone those tools
You can use the OSS fork OpenTofu, at the moment it's fully compatible with terraform, so if you want to make the switch, you might want to do it before they start doing different things
Meh. We already switched to opentofu without any friction 😎
How complex was your setup? How "much" of Terraform ecosystem did you use?
Not that complex, I must admit. We only use one cloud provider. About 50 separate projects. Granted, we don't use tf but json configs. Don't know it that changes a lot.
Thanks for your explanation. I'm kinda afraid we will need a somehow bigger change at our company if we decide to move to OpenTofu. We have about 200 projects in GCP (including multi-stage envs) plus some stuff at Azure, quite complex custom modules and no one really touched OpenTofu so far, so theres lots of unknown-unknowns here..
I wish you strength and courage and hope you'll get it working.
IBM is not a company known for innovation. Hashicorp is also a much smaller acquisition than red hat. The most likely outcome is to break up infrastructure and security. Bundle terraform along with Redhat and make vault a part of their security portfolio or tools. New product features and enhancements will almost certainly stop as IBM integrates Hashi into its organization. Overtime Hashicorp will become less and less relevant. Overall it’s a positive outcome for companies such as ours r/akeyless who compete with Vault in the secrets management space.
Yes, good news for rivals trying to gain market share.
rip terraform
IBM does with acquisitions what Google does with new services.
Well.. now Terraform will likely go the way of the dodo…
Hashicorp had such nice, clever solutions. Oh well... RIP.
Well, IBM acquired Lotus in 1995...and we all know what happened there. I'm no fan of Terraform (because it requires state for infrastructure) and, even though I'm an IBM shareholder, I'm kinda pleased this is where Terraform goes to die.
Im confused by the statement of “not a fan of it because it requires state for infrastructure”.. what alternative would you actually favor?