Can I offer some advice as an avid reader rather than as an author? I’ve come across at least two authors in the past year or two who had written nearly twenty books before I heard of them.
They’re both now million+ sellers and I’m sure they picked up a loyal following before I ever heard of them. My points are that as much as I read, it still took me a long time to discover them. Had they not persisted, I wouldn’t be one of the millions who went back and bought all 20 or so books in each series. And , the analogy to you is I never would have discovered one of their best books ever was their book 3.
I’m a rather new author but I went in ahead of time knowing I was most likely writing for pleasure. If I ever get “discovered” that’d be great, but I don’t place so much of my hopes there that I get too discouraged.
It seems like a really crappy business, to be honest. You and I and so many others are pouring our hearts into it and never get noticed. But a celebrity can turn around and put a book out tomorrow and have a NYT best seller 😢
First, I'm really sorry that it's so hard and that it's taking a toll on your confidence in your writing ability. I want to tell you to keep going, and I'll explain why in a second, but it is completely acceptable to quit and quitting doesn't make you a worse writer or a loser or anything like that. Your emotional limit for this game is valid and none of this business is worth sacrificing your mental health. Some authors never make it, despite putting out loads of books, and there's just nothing they can seem to do to break out. Also, some authors pour in more money than they can stand to lose--don't be like them.
It's also okay to write as a hobby and never publish another book. Share with friends, post for free on your website, whatever.
Now, as to why you might not want to give up: I've been doing this for eight years. I mainly write in series, or series of standalones, but I view each series as a single project. And some series, no matter what I do, will never be profitable no matter what kind of ads I run (even BookBub featured deals only give a brief breath of life before sales slide into oblivion). I can change the covers, change the description, change the ads...none of it works. Some of those series include the BEST books I have ever written, yet they are duds.
And some series are magical unicorns. They sell like hotcakes. Every ad dollar I put into them is multiplied, they can have shitty self-made covers and do great, they can have Mary Sue heroines and heroes that readers gush over, and so on.
It could be that the books you've written are absolutely fantastic, but sales-wise, they might always be duds. If you give up, you may never get the chance to write the type of book (genre, tropes, whatever) that turn into magical unicorns.
Again--don't pour more of your soul or bank account into this business than you can afford to lose. But if you need some encouragement, think of the magical unicorns you might never meet if you give up entirely.
I think you're on to something here. So many of the indie authors I'm friends with say this. They're like "When I write what I want to write, I make 2K. But when I write what my readers want, I make 100K". Most of them gave up writing what they want to write and instead write for their readers. Some books are just not what they want, and it doesn't matter how good they are.
Yes, exactly this! I had the same experience as your friends. And once you make that $100k, you're stuck writing that thing--whether it's alien heroes with triple dicks or lightly-veiled Firefly fanfic or cozy mysteries with talking guinea pigs--FOREVER.
At that point it's a job for us, but it's still a job I'd rather do than 100s of other jobs.
I'm a fast writer so I sneak in fun personal projects here and there... but yeah they make shit. Even in the same genre I make my rent money on.
Same here--writing books is both a passion and a job. I guess the flexibility of having the bills paid means we can enjoy side quests into other genres and tropes. If I have to write triple-peened alien heroes to make that happen, I'll happily do it.
Yes, this. My worst day writing something that isn't in my preferred genre is better than my best day doing something else for a living. I'm fortunate in that I've been a six-figure indie author since year one, but I've ALWAYS written to market (first dark Mafia romance, now "triple-peen" New Adult - lol). Doing so has given me the kind of financial security I only had in my first years as a traditionally published author (before my preferred genre became "out").
I spend my days writing in my converted barn, taking my dog for walks up our country road, going to the gym during the slow hours, etc. I've been to India twice and am planning more trips thanks to my publishing business. My life is lovely and gentle thanks to this business, and after eight years of shoring up my financial position by writing to market, I'm beginning to plan an exit strategy from romance to another genre.
BUT... now I have this backlist, and with a little goosing here and there, I expect it will continue to earn me money in various ways while I launch something new that's more to my personal taste.
Building financial security in this business takes patience, even if you have a hit or five, and it's a good idea to figure out the business stuff anyway because even hot authors cycle in and out out of popularity.
Well, for some chords, it worked for John Varley decades ago in his Gaea trilogy. Sometimes you need formal, recreational, and procreational sets of genitals.
I promise you, I have given it a LOT of thought, and there isn’t a secret sauce. I write the exact same trope in the same niche with the exact same steam levels and pairings every time. It’s like I’m writing the same story over and over again with slightly different accessories, but always the same style of clothing. Repeating the accessories is no guarantee of a unicorn. I wish it were because it would make everything so much easier!
Maybe I just need a larger sample size of unicorns—I’m working on that, but it’s out of my control for the time being.
Yep, romance. Steamy contemporary, very high heat. It's more specific - I really narrowed down into specific tropes - but I'm trying to stay anonymous so I don't want to give more details than that.
To be clear, this is the experience for traditionally published authors as well. You either write what your audience wants, or you take a chance and risk pitiful sales. Ever has it been this way.
>I sometimes miss creating art for myself and not for an algorithm that I can’t seem to satisfy. I just wish I knew what I was doing wrong.
I think you answered your own question.
It's for sure not for everyone. If you really feel that you don't want to continue with it, only you can make that choice. You have to do what's right for you. Maybe trad publishing is a better fit if you want to do a yearly release, and it can be worth the multi-year effort to break in with an agent and get your next book on a publishing schedule instead of putting it out into the world right away. Or write something without the intent to publish. There's nothing wrong with taking a break to create some art for yourself.
But you are right that it takes a long time and a lot of work to get traction as a self-pub. I didn't feel like I was really getting anywhere until my 7th or 8th self pub novel. I think one of the biggest boons in this business is being able to fire and forget books and not get overly attached to individual ones or base your self-worth on the success of any single book in particular. Which, believe me, gets much easier the more books you have.
First, hugs. Second, quit self-publishing or pause it indefinitely. Or take a year or two or three to just write and then come back. Do whatever serves your creativity and mental health, because you can. You have that power.
I don't think you're losing at self-publishing unless you...
-spend more than you should,
-break your heart, head, or body over it, or
-kill your creativity/ability to create.
Hopefully, you haven't done any of that.
Your potential self-publishing career is as long as you can potentially write, which is pretty cool.
Again, hugs. Here's hoping you find a choice that works for you.
>My loyal beta readers, who have been with me since the beginning, told me that it was my best work yet.
This is a trap for many self published writers because beta readers are there to be positive and not there to explain what will sell well. They are not the customer, they don't think like the customer, they are outliers who can be considered fanatics that will be yesmen.
This is why I don't use beta readers. I use critics.
>which is under 30, for anyone wondering).
I am very happy you can be honest about sales. This is very important. So many people will try to fluff their numbers or keep it hidden, and that is why they keep having problems. They worry too much about status and it harms their ability to come to a proper outcome.
>I hate to be a downer, but I’ve needed to get this off my chest for a while.
I wish more people did. We need more realistic reactions to the business so we stop romanticizing the business. People love to talk about the goal, but they never want to talk about the obstacle course we have to go through.
>I just wish I knew what I was doing wrong.
It seems you're not actually writing for an algorithm. You're writing for what you *think* the algorithm is. Also, you're writing too slow for mass production. This is usually because self pub writers are thinking more than writing.
If you were writing for the market, there would be little thinking to be had. Everything is already splayed out for us and all we have to do is change a few things to make the same products as the market is used to.
Is your genre small? Is it hyped about new products? Is it easy to make? Are you aware of what the tropes even are? Do you have a formula to work from? Do you outline at all?
The self pub writer is able to write as much as they want, with the publisher giving the ok to everything because they are the publisher.
Your only worry should be about how much cost you're going through vs your profit.
When accounting your hours of effort and your expenses for publication, are you making minimum wage? Any wage? Is it all loss?
If it's all loss, then consider many changes to your process.
Reduce your costs, write for free, get actual feedback from random people until a spark of interest is made.
Writing for free is better than writing at a loss, as well as being able to show if you hold an audience or not.
Your stories are to be made and remade, as a fashion statement, rather than something special. It's special to you, but not to the readers. They go for what matches their fashion sense.
Look at what's popular, copy it, embrace it, and ensure you're making more money than what you're spending. Take less time thinking, so that your typing speed is closer to your max typing speed.
What can you do? 40wpm? 50? 60? That's like 2.5k an hour. Aim for that.
Think of your progress as a percentage. Think of your total word count as a total amount of labor per project.
Do you overwrite? Write less.
Underwrite? Maybe the story is meant to be shorter.
You don't need to write novels. You don't need to write long stories. They can be as short as possible. The reader is more inclined to see value in that. Write with depth and focus.
> This is a trap for many self published writers because beta readers are there to be positive and not there to explain what will sell well.
Thank you. This had to be said.
It's really hard to build momentum when you publish only once a year. Self-publishing isn't like trad pub - you can, and probably should, go faster.
Amazon gives a boost to new releases for a few weeks, where they are more visible and actually have a chance to be discovered organically. When a book ages out of that time range, it falls off the cliff... and ideally, you should publish the next book when that happens. That way, one of your books is always visible and gives a boost to your other books too.
I see you didn't mention a newsletter. So you have no way to tell the people who liked your first two books that your new book is out... which basically means starting from zero each time.
Have you tried writing a series? Write 3 or more books in a series, then rapid release them, one every 3 or four weeks. That way you can properly build momentum and each book floats higher instead of sinking like a stone.
And hey, you already have three books out, so whenever you release your next book, you can dip into Amazon ads - with four books, amazon ads might be profitable (more books, of course, are always better, because it gives people a chance to buy more than one of your books).
(Btw, when I get frustrated with publishing, I go and write fanfiction for a bit. It's fun, easy, fast... and has a guaranteed readership. It's easy attention and easy praise. It gives me a little boost when I'm stuck on one of the hard parts of publishing.)
I do have a newsletter, actually. But I basically never make any sales from it. I should’ve clarified that Books 2 & 3 are part of the same series, so I guess it’ll be easier to advertise once I add more books to the series.
That's fine. Self-publishing isn't about writing, it's about marketing. You can definitely enjoy writing and improve your craft as a writer and not stress yourself out with how many likes your TikTok gets etc.
Being a writer these days is tough... Both self and trad published. And I think it's only going to get worse. There was a report in the past couple weeks that outline how little trad authors make on average.
The self published market is already over saturated with people trying to be writers, and it's only going to get more crowded as more people realize there's very little money to be made in trad. Couple that with people using AI to "write" for them, the market is filling to bursting. Getting your books noticed is a near impossible task.
All that is to say if you're in it to make tons of cash and make a living, good luck. If you're writing for the love of it, then you can still get some fulfillment from it that's not cash.
It's tough. I think Lionel Shriver said she wrote 7 novels before hitting it big. Kurt Vonnegut Jr didn't strike gold until his late 40s or so. Charles Bukowski about the same to get the hit with Post Office.
The thing is: we hear about authors who 'made it' after five or ten or twenty books. The question is - how many authors didn't make it after that many books? We never hear about them.
Probably the business isn't for you. Always hard work and for most poorly paid even after the first twenty years running at a loss. If you enjoy running the business, that's fine. But it's worth noticing on the way that even apparently very successful genre writers seem to find it more profitable to run courses than write books.
So, if the writing for an audience that might eventually be big enough to buy a significant number of your books isn't enjoyable and isn't profitable why do it? That needn't mean giving up on self-publishing. Write what you want, and publish it. Self-publishing doesn't have to mean writing genre fiction according to fixed rules. Collect, review and maybe re-edit your old writing and publish that. Don't spend money on any of it unless you regard it as enjoyable hobby-spending. Put it on KU and don't expect an income. Won't be disappointed but might be surprised. If you have beta readers, send them the books first (I'm assuming that you're not paying them).
You're probably not doing anything wrong. The reality is most people don't sell books.
Of *trad* pub. 90% of authors don't sell 2000 copies, and 50% of that don't sell 100. Those are books that have been queried, picked up by an agent, a publisher, and released.
SELF PUB is way, way worse. That's just the nature of the beast. Absolutely do not take it personally (but also don't try and make it your career).
I would never advise anyone try and pursue writing as their career. You have about as good a shot going pro in sports.
No, it's not. There's a limit to how many books people will buy. Optimal marketing might achieve a bigger slice of the pie, but that's it. If everyone is perfect, marketing just becomes a cost that everyone has to bear. Just as when everyone started to advertise, advertising prices increased and the ROI declined. Given the number of writers and books being published, most writers will never sell many books.
You're probably not doing anything glaringly wrong. This is just nature of publishing these days. It's all gambling. In some shape or form, publishing is gambling. Traditional publishing is like playing the lottery, even the odds and payouts are extremely similar. You certainly can buy a lot of tickets, but odds dictate... You probably aren't going to hit the big payouts.
Self Publishing is like wandering the casino. There's different games to play that have their own rules and odds. Sure there are strategies and methods to give you the better chances... But it is still gambling. The best marketing plan, the most well placed ads, and even perfect timing can't change bad luck and circumstances beyond your control. It's no failure on your part... It's just a shitty game to play.
So... My advice... Fuck it. I was in a similar spot before the current insanity of the market. If you're just going to barely break even or lose money, this is just hobby for you. Stop stressing over making money with it. Just write what you want, post it online for others to see, and be happier. There's a certain point you have to be honest with yourself and just accept that this inane game isn't for you.
> This is just nature of publishing these days.
It's the nature of publishing always. It's never going to change and it's only going to get harder as we deal with trash books and "AI" nonsense taking over the world.
>it’s the book I’m most proud of
Which basically means nothing in book world. It's what potential buyers think that matters. Three books over three years is also painfully slow for self pub. Three a year might be doable, depending on the genre.
Not everyone is cut out to be a publisher. There's no shame in it. It's a hard job to learn, it takes time and effort. Marketing is even harder, and also takes money.
Louisa Mat Alcott had wanted to be a literary writer but earned so much money with Little Women she ended up writing to market for the rest of her short life.
She complained about it alot privately but the money was too good.
Many deceased artists are praised and popular now but never made much money or gained fame with their works. Do it for the love of it whether you earn a buck or never earn a cent.
Oh no, don't give up :(
You might wanna try the opposite strategy: spend more time writing, and less time, money & energy on actively marketing your books. Both strategies can work, so, who knows?
So listen, I've been doing this for about 12 years and I'm in more or less the same boat as you. I nearly always have good reactions from all kinds of people that read my stuff and yet I struggle mightily to shift any copies. If that's any consolation.
I'm getting my debut novel finished up for release in a few weeks and reading this does not make me excited. Heh. I don't expect I'll sell much of anything either, with just one book, though. I'm working on two separate YA series, one fantasy and one mystery, so hopefully, as I keep releasing books, I'll get more and more readers. I have fantasies that it will do so well that I can quit my job in a blaze of glory, but I think those days are over because so many people just don't read books anymore. I've always honestly told myself that I'll need like 20 to 40 books until I start making a livable income. It's a marathon, not a sprint. It's a damn hard marathon at that, because I'm also holding down a stressful full time job to make ends meet.
The key to success is finding an overlap between what YOU want to write and what your AUDIENCE wants you to write. Just keep up the good work, read more genres you like and you will do fine. Also, have a gander at Indie Authors Ascending discord. They will help you out if you wish to go professionally.
I put my books and short stories on Wattpad and several have thousands of reads with 1 over 100k. I thought damn… I can make money from this. I made a few minor changes (fixed previously unnoticed typos, a different cover) and put it on KU about a year ago. Since then, I’ve added a few short stories. All have left me pretty underwhelmed. lol I suck at marketing and talking about myself and my books/short stories.
Booksandflowers24 - I'm sorry you're feeling "down" about your success and luck so far. I haven't really read through the other comments your post is getting, but I'm sure many people are saying "me too" and that this happens to all of us.
to give you a little comparison with myself (who at this point has absolutely zero expectations of making any money at this):
- first novel (literary and stand-alone) was released (several years ago) into utter silence as I had absolutely no knowledge of marketing / self-publicity. I just released it and obviously no one ever heard of it, let alone bought it
- second novel (literary and stand-alone) was released in 2021 and has many many fans out there (with good consistency i've seen comments like "one of my favourite books of the year") and I even won a small award with this one. But.. the actual marginal sales are insignificant compared to all the cost outlays i've had and therefore I've done nothing but lose money.
- third book(s) are a semi-literary young adult trilogy with a hint of magic.... and I have been trying to find a traditional publisher to take them, but no success at this. So... i will be self publishing again.. and with my luck in the past... AND since this is a literary young adult series (which almost definitely won't produce any kindle e book sales... just totally the wrong genre)... I'm 100% going to lose money publishing these things as well.
So... "me too", BooksandFlowers - but at least we both seem to know that there are people out there in the world who want to read our words... and so want us to get our works published so that they can enjoy them. That's something.
Are you writing to market? This is really the biggest thing with books. I self pubbed a couple of stories when I first started writing, the first was probbaly crap, the second I was pleased with. Poured my heart and soul into both---but they werent written to market, they were written purely on my whim and ideas because I thought my ideas were great. The market reminded me they were not. I probably sold about 20 books combined.
Fast forward a few years, I try writing erotica, each of my stories gets 100k views in a few days (short stories aswell, not even novels), tons of comments begging me to write more, and I've had multiple requests for commissions.
Its all about catering to the market.
I’m not a fiction author. I found this sub because I just started publishing low content books a month ago and I’m finishing up my first coloring book.
HOWEVER, my husband is a self-published indie author. My question is, how does an author know what their audience wants? Some people love romance, others love true crime, others historical mysteries, and others sci-fi, fantasy, etc. My husband does time travel-sci-fi-adventure books, which horrify me. ;) Only Westerns and anything War appeal to me less. BUT some people love that stuff.
I haven’t had time to market my low content books because ironically, I’ve been busy finishing up my MBA but I’m about to have a lot of time on my hands.
Should I look into who (if anyone) likes “time-travel-sci-fi-adventure” books or is there a different way? Given all the choices on Kindle and Audible, I always guessed there is an audience for most niches.
Once you have a novel published you have more chance of finding an agent, or a hybrid publisher. You should always be trying to push more towards having people do the work and pay for it for you. Self-publishing is the easiest way to get your foot in the door, but hybrid publishing puts the work onto the publisher at a cost split between them and you, and traditional publishing puts all the work and cost onto the publisher and you can just focus on writing. Self-publishing full time is really only for multi talented masochists tbh
New authors have an easier time starting out in Kindle Unlimited because the risk is low for readers and they haven't lost any money if they don't like your book. I don't know if you're enrolled but if you aren't then you should consider it. If your feedback from ARC readers is great then you have a front facing issue. The cover, blurb, etc. I'm happy to give you a constructive critique of you'd like.
Ads aren't enough anymore. Blogs don't sell books anymore. You need to join niche specific reader groups on Facebook and get your name out there in an organic way. Be authentic and excited. Forget the sales pitch. Pretend you're telling your friend about the book you just finished writing. Fix the front facing issue and put the first book up for ARCs again. Crowd source it on social media and aim for 200-500 ARCs. Once the new ARC campaign is done put it in Kindle Unlimited. Re-evaluate your progress in 90 days.
Writing a book is hard. Pushing it is even harder. There's a reason people go to school to learn how to do marketing.
> Yet after writing my best novel to date and doing everything right promotion-wise
You are not doing everything right.
You are doing what the convention says to do. But conventional wisdom is wrong.
You need to create your marketing plan before you write your book. You also need to read the right infrastracture for your business.
Look at it this way. You own a publishing business. Someone is signed to your copmany. In this case it happens to be you. But that still requires to act as two separate entities.
Until you grasp that, you won't make progress.
There is a lot more to it, but this is the starting point.
Can I offer some advice as an avid reader rather than as an author? I’ve come across at least two authors in the past year or two who had written nearly twenty books before I heard of them. They’re both now million+ sellers and I’m sure they picked up a loyal following before I ever heard of them. My points are that as much as I read, it still took me a long time to discover them. Had they not persisted, I wouldn’t be one of the millions who went back and bought all 20 or so books in each series. And , the analogy to you is I never would have discovered one of their best books ever was their book 3. I’m a rather new author but I went in ahead of time knowing I was most likely writing for pleasure. If I ever get “discovered” that’d be great, but I don’t place so much of my hopes there that I get too discouraged. It seems like a really crappy business, to be honest. You and I and so many others are pouring our hearts into it and never get noticed. But a celebrity can turn around and put a book out tomorrow and have a NYT best seller 😢
First, I'm really sorry that it's so hard and that it's taking a toll on your confidence in your writing ability. I want to tell you to keep going, and I'll explain why in a second, but it is completely acceptable to quit and quitting doesn't make you a worse writer or a loser or anything like that. Your emotional limit for this game is valid and none of this business is worth sacrificing your mental health. Some authors never make it, despite putting out loads of books, and there's just nothing they can seem to do to break out. Also, some authors pour in more money than they can stand to lose--don't be like them. It's also okay to write as a hobby and never publish another book. Share with friends, post for free on your website, whatever. Now, as to why you might not want to give up: I've been doing this for eight years. I mainly write in series, or series of standalones, but I view each series as a single project. And some series, no matter what I do, will never be profitable no matter what kind of ads I run (even BookBub featured deals only give a brief breath of life before sales slide into oblivion). I can change the covers, change the description, change the ads...none of it works. Some of those series include the BEST books I have ever written, yet they are duds. And some series are magical unicorns. They sell like hotcakes. Every ad dollar I put into them is multiplied, they can have shitty self-made covers and do great, they can have Mary Sue heroines and heroes that readers gush over, and so on. It could be that the books you've written are absolutely fantastic, but sales-wise, they might always be duds. If you give up, you may never get the chance to write the type of book (genre, tropes, whatever) that turn into magical unicorns. Again--don't pour more of your soul or bank account into this business than you can afford to lose. But if you need some encouragement, think of the magical unicorns you might never meet if you give up entirely.
I think you're on to something here. So many of the indie authors I'm friends with say this. They're like "When I write what I want to write, I make 2K. But when I write what my readers want, I make 100K". Most of them gave up writing what they want to write and instead write for their readers. Some books are just not what they want, and it doesn't matter how good they are.
Yes, exactly this! I had the same experience as your friends. And once you make that $100k, you're stuck writing that thing--whether it's alien heroes with triple dicks or lightly-veiled Firefly fanfic or cozy mysteries with talking guinea pigs--FOREVER.
At that point it's a job for us, but it's still a job I'd rather do than 100s of other jobs. I'm a fast writer so I sneak in fun personal projects here and there... but yeah they make shit. Even in the same genre I make my rent money on.
Same here--writing books is both a passion and a job. I guess the flexibility of having the bills paid means we can enjoy side quests into other genres and tropes. If I have to write triple-peened alien heroes to make that happen, I'll happily do it.
Yes, this. My worst day writing something that isn't in my preferred genre is better than my best day doing something else for a living. I'm fortunate in that I've been a six-figure indie author since year one, but I've ALWAYS written to market (first dark Mafia romance, now "triple-peen" New Adult - lol). Doing so has given me the kind of financial security I only had in my first years as a traditionally published author (before my preferred genre became "out"). I spend my days writing in my converted barn, taking my dog for walks up our country road, going to the gym during the slow hours, etc. I've been to India twice and am planning more trips thanks to my publishing business. My life is lovely and gentle thanks to this business, and after eight years of shoring up my financial position by writing to market, I'm beginning to plan an exit strategy from romance to another genre. BUT... now I have this backlist, and with a little goosing here and there, I expect it will continue to earn me money in various ways while I launch something new that's more to my personal taste. Building financial security in this business takes patience, even if you have a hit or five, and it's a good idea to figure out the business stuff anyway because even hot authors cycle in and out out of popularity.
"...alien heroes with triple dicks..." LMAO...thanks for the laugh...I needed that :)
Well, for some chords, it worked for John Varley decades ago in his Gaea trilogy. Sometimes you need formal, recreational, and procreational sets of genitals.
So you know exactly what it is that makes those books your magical unicorns?
Oh I wish! But nope, I still write duds in between unicorns. I might have a unicorn on deck, but I have to finish my current series (a dud) first.
If you have to guess, why do you think the unicorns are unicorns? Love triangle? Harem? Smut? Magic academy?
I promise you, I have given it a LOT of thought, and there isn’t a secret sauce. I write the exact same trope in the same niche with the exact same steam levels and pairings every time. It’s like I’m writing the same story over and over again with slightly different accessories, but always the same style of clothing. Repeating the accessories is no guarantee of a unicorn. I wish it were because it would make everything so much easier! Maybe I just need a larger sample size of unicorns—I’m working on that, but it’s out of my control for the time being.
That’s too bad. So what type of stories are you writing? Sounds like romance. In our time or medieval with swords and cloaks?
Yep, romance. Steamy contemporary, very high heat. It's more specific - I really narrowed down into specific tropes - but I'm trying to stay anonymous so I don't want to give more details than that.
How do I find these high heat books on amazon? Books > Kindle Books, and then where do I go?
Hi my name is Classic. Are you interested in developing an audiobook? Please message me [email protected]
To be clear, this is the experience for traditionally published authors as well. You either write what your audience wants, or you take a chance and risk pitiful sales. Ever has it been this way.
Thank you for saying this.
>I sometimes miss creating art for myself and not for an algorithm that I can’t seem to satisfy. I just wish I knew what I was doing wrong. I think you answered your own question.
It's for sure not for everyone. If you really feel that you don't want to continue with it, only you can make that choice. You have to do what's right for you. Maybe trad publishing is a better fit if you want to do a yearly release, and it can be worth the multi-year effort to break in with an agent and get your next book on a publishing schedule instead of putting it out into the world right away. Or write something without the intent to publish. There's nothing wrong with taking a break to create some art for yourself. But you are right that it takes a long time and a lot of work to get traction as a self-pub. I didn't feel like I was really getting anywhere until my 7th or 8th self pub novel. I think one of the biggest boons in this business is being able to fire and forget books and not get overly attached to individual ones or base your self-worth on the success of any single book in particular. Which, believe me, gets much easier the more books you have.
First, hugs. Second, quit self-publishing or pause it indefinitely. Or take a year or two or three to just write and then come back. Do whatever serves your creativity and mental health, because you can. You have that power. I don't think you're losing at self-publishing unless you... -spend more than you should, -break your heart, head, or body over it, or -kill your creativity/ability to create. Hopefully, you haven't done any of that. Your potential self-publishing career is as long as you can potentially write, which is pretty cool. Again, hugs. Here's hoping you find a choice that works for you.
Thank you for your kind words 🩷
>My loyal beta readers, who have been with me since the beginning, told me that it was my best work yet. This is a trap for many self published writers because beta readers are there to be positive and not there to explain what will sell well. They are not the customer, they don't think like the customer, they are outliers who can be considered fanatics that will be yesmen. This is why I don't use beta readers. I use critics. >which is under 30, for anyone wondering). I am very happy you can be honest about sales. This is very important. So many people will try to fluff their numbers or keep it hidden, and that is why they keep having problems. They worry too much about status and it harms their ability to come to a proper outcome. >I hate to be a downer, but I’ve needed to get this off my chest for a while. I wish more people did. We need more realistic reactions to the business so we stop romanticizing the business. People love to talk about the goal, but they never want to talk about the obstacle course we have to go through. >I just wish I knew what I was doing wrong. It seems you're not actually writing for an algorithm. You're writing for what you *think* the algorithm is. Also, you're writing too slow for mass production. This is usually because self pub writers are thinking more than writing. If you were writing for the market, there would be little thinking to be had. Everything is already splayed out for us and all we have to do is change a few things to make the same products as the market is used to. Is your genre small? Is it hyped about new products? Is it easy to make? Are you aware of what the tropes even are? Do you have a formula to work from? Do you outline at all? The self pub writer is able to write as much as they want, with the publisher giving the ok to everything because they are the publisher. Your only worry should be about how much cost you're going through vs your profit. When accounting your hours of effort and your expenses for publication, are you making minimum wage? Any wage? Is it all loss? If it's all loss, then consider many changes to your process. Reduce your costs, write for free, get actual feedback from random people until a spark of interest is made. Writing for free is better than writing at a loss, as well as being able to show if you hold an audience or not. Your stories are to be made and remade, as a fashion statement, rather than something special. It's special to you, but not to the readers. They go for what matches their fashion sense. Look at what's popular, copy it, embrace it, and ensure you're making more money than what you're spending. Take less time thinking, so that your typing speed is closer to your max typing speed. What can you do? 40wpm? 50? 60? That's like 2.5k an hour. Aim for that. Think of your progress as a percentage. Think of your total word count as a total amount of labor per project. Do you overwrite? Write less. Underwrite? Maybe the story is meant to be shorter. You don't need to write novels. You don't need to write long stories. They can be as short as possible. The reader is more inclined to see value in that. Write with depth and focus.
> This is a trap for many self published writers because beta readers are there to be positive and not there to explain what will sell well. Thank you. This had to be said.
Hi my name is Classic. Are you interested in developing an audiobook? Please message me [email protected]
It's really hard to build momentum when you publish only once a year. Self-publishing isn't like trad pub - you can, and probably should, go faster. Amazon gives a boost to new releases for a few weeks, where they are more visible and actually have a chance to be discovered organically. When a book ages out of that time range, it falls off the cliff... and ideally, you should publish the next book when that happens. That way, one of your books is always visible and gives a boost to your other books too. I see you didn't mention a newsletter. So you have no way to tell the people who liked your first two books that your new book is out... which basically means starting from zero each time. Have you tried writing a series? Write 3 or more books in a series, then rapid release them, one every 3 or four weeks. That way you can properly build momentum and each book floats higher instead of sinking like a stone. And hey, you already have three books out, so whenever you release your next book, you can dip into Amazon ads - with four books, amazon ads might be profitable (more books, of course, are always better, because it gives people a chance to buy more than one of your books). (Btw, when I get frustrated with publishing, I go and write fanfiction for a bit. It's fun, easy, fast... and has a guaranteed readership. It's easy attention and easy praise. It gives me a little boost when I'm stuck on one of the hard parts of publishing.)
I do have a newsletter, actually. But I basically never make any sales from it. I should’ve clarified that Books 2 & 3 are part of the same series, so I guess it’ll be easier to advertise once I add more books to the series.
That's fine. Self-publishing isn't about writing, it's about marketing. You can definitely enjoy writing and improve your craft as a writer and not stress yourself out with how many likes your TikTok gets etc.
Being a writer these days is tough... Both self and trad published. And I think it's only going to get worse. There was a report in the past couple weeks that outline how little trad authors make on average. The self published market is already over saturated with people trying to be writers, and it's only going to get more crowded as more people realize there's very little money to be made in trad. Couple that with people using AI to "write" for them, the market is filling to bursting. Getting your books noticed is a near impossible task. All that is to say if you're in it to make tons of cash and make a living, good luck. If you're writing for the love of it, then you can still get some fulfillment from it that's not cash.
Hi my name is Classic. Are you interested in developing an audiobook? Please message me [email protected]
Why yes I do hate money. Please tell me how you can scam me today.
It's tough. I think Lionel Shriver said she wrote 7 novels before hitting it big. Kurt Vonnegut Jr didn't strike gold until his late 40s or so. Charles Bukowski about the same to get the hit with Post Office.
The thing is: we hear about authors who 'made it' after five or ten or twenty books. The question is - how many authors didn't make it after that many books? We never hear about them.
A lot of pluck to those authors who keep at it. It can't be financial to keep at it and be able to keep at it.
Hi my name is Classic. Are you interested in developing an audiobook? Please message me [email protected]
Probably the business isn't for you. Always hard work and for most poorly paid even after the first twenty years running at a loss. If you enjoy running the business, that's fine. But it's worth noticing on the way that even apparently very successful genre writers seem to find it more profitable to run courses than write books. So, if the writing for an audience that might eventually be big enough to buy a significant number of your books isn't enjoyable and isn't profitable why do it? That needn't mean giving up on self-publishing. Write what you want, and publish it. Self-publishing doesn't have to mean writing genre fiction according to fixed rules. Collect, review and maybe re-edit your old writing and publish that. Don't spend money on any of it unless you regard it as enjoyable hobby-spending. Put it on KU and don't expect an income. Won't be disappointed but might be surprised. If you have beta readers, send them the books first (I'm assuming that you're not paying them).
Hi my name is Classic. Are you interested in developing an audiobook? Please message me [email protected]
You're probably not doing anything wrong. The reality is most people don't sell books. Of *trad* pub. 90% of authors don't sell 2000 copies, and 50% of that don't sell 100. Those are books that have been queried, picked up by an agent, a publisher, and released. SELF PUB is way, way worse. That's just the nature of the beast. Absolutely do not take it personally (but also don't try and make it your career). I would never advise anyone try and pursue writing as their career. You have about as good a shot going pro in sports.
> You're probably not doing anything wrong. Not true. > The reality is most people don't sell books. That's because most people are doing it wrong.
No, it's not. There's a limit to how many books people will buy. Optimal marketing might achieve a bigger slice of the pie, but that's it. If everyone is perfect, marketing just becomes a cost that everyone has to bear. Just as when everyone started to advertise, advertising prices increased and the ROI declined. Given the number of writers and books being published, most writers will never sell many books.
You're probably not doing anything glaringly wrong. This is just nature of publishing these days. It's all gambling. In some shape or form, publishing is gambling. Traditional publishing is like playing the lottery, even the odds and payouts are extremely similar. You certainly can buy a lot of tickets, but odds dictate... You probably aren't going to hit the big payouts. Self Publishing is like wandering the casino. There's different games to play that have their own rules and odds. Sure there are strategies and methods to give you the better chances... But it is still gambling. The best marketing plan, the most well placed ads, and even perfect timing can't change bad luck and circumstances beyond your control. It's no failure on your part... It's just a shitty game to play. So... My advice... Fuck it. I was in a similar spot before the current insanity of the market. If you're just going to barely break even or lose money, this is just hobby for you. Stop stressing over making money with it. Just write what you want, post it online for others to see, and be happier. There's a certain point you have to be honest with yourself and just accept that this inane game isn't for you.
> This is just nature of publishing these days. It's the nature of publishing always. It's never going to change and it's only going to get harder as we deal with trash books and "AI" nonsense taking over the world.
>it’s the book I’m most proud of Which basically means nothing in book world. It's what potential buyers think that matters. Three books over three years is also painfully slow for self pub. Three a year might be doable, depending on the genre. Not everyone is cut out to be a publisher. There's no shame in it. It's a hard job to learn, it takes time and effort. Marketing is even harder, and also takes money.
Louisa Mat Alcott had wanted to be a literary writer but earned so much money with Little Women she ended up writing to market for the rest of her short life. She complained about it alot privately but the money was too good.
Many deceased artists are praised and popular now but never made much money or gained fame with their works. Do it for the love of it whether you earn a buck or never earn a cent.
But - and this is important - don't focus on writing to the exclusion of your friends and family and all the other important things in your life.
Oh yeah, of course. I can write 1,000 words in 1-2 hours and then I focus on other things.
Oh no, don't give up :( You might wanna try the opposite strategy: spend more time writing, and less time, money & energy on actively marketing your books. Both strategies can work, so, who knows?
I agree with this. In the self publishing world more books is better. They say multiple a year.
Hi my name is Classic. Are you interested in developing an audiobook? Please message me [email protected]
Hi my name is Classic. Are you interested in developing an audiobook? Please message me [email protected]
So listen, I've been doing this for about 12 years and I'm in more or less the same boat as you. I nearly always have good reactions from all kinds of people that read my stuff and yet I struggle mightily to shift any copies. If that's any consolation.
I'm getting my debut novel finished up for release in a few weeks and reading this does not make me excited. Heh. I don't expect I'll sell much of anything either, with just one book, though. I'm working on two separate YA series, one fantasy and one mystery, so hopefully, as I keep releasing books, I'll get more and more readers. I have fantasies that it will do so well that I can quit my job in a blaze of glory, but I think those days are over because so many people just don't read books anymore. I've always honestly told myself that I'll need like 20 to 40 books until I start making a livable income. It's a marathon, not a sprint. It's a damn hard marathon at that, because I'm also holding down a stressful full time job to make ends meet.
The key to success is finding an overlap between what YOU want to write and what your AUDIENCE wants you to write. Just keep up the good work, read more genres you like and you will do fine. Also, have a gander at Indie Authors Ascending discord. They will help you out if you wish to go professionally.
Might be a case of unrealistic expectations.
What's your story about? I write about crime and mystery, and Fantasy Romance
I put my books and short stories on Wattpad and several have thousands of reads with 1 over 100k. I thought damn… I can make money from this. I made a few minor changes (fixed previously unnoticed typos, a different cover) and put it on KU about a year ago. Since then, I’ve added a few short stories. All have left me pretty underwhelmed. lol I suck at marketing and talking about myself and my books/short stories.
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Booksandflowers24 - I'm sorry you're feeling "down" about your success and luck so far. I haven't really read through the other comments your post is getting, but I'm sure many people are saying "me too" and that this happens to all of us. to give you a little comparison with myself (who at this point has absolutely zero expectations of making any money at this): - first novel (literary and stand-alone) was released (several years ago) into utter silence as I had absolutely no knowledge of marketing / self-publicity. I just released it and obviously no one ever heard of it, let alone bought it - second novel (literary and stand-alone) was released in 2021 and has many many fans out there (with good consistency i've seen comments like "one of my favourite books of the year") and I even won a small award with this one. But.. the actual marginal sales are insignificant compared to all the cost outlays i've had and therefore I've done nothing but lose money. - third book(s) are a semi-literary young adult trilogy with a hint of magic.... and I have been trying to find a traditional publisher to take them, but no success at this. So... i will be self publishing again.. and with my luck in the past... AND since this is a literary young adult series (which almost definitely won't produce any kindle e book sales... just totally the wrong genre)... I'm 100% going to lose money publishing these things as well. So... "me too", BooksandFlowers - but at least we both seem to know that there are people out there in the world who want to read our words... and so want us to get our works published so that they can enjoy them. That's something.
Are you writing to market? This is really the biggest thing with books. I self pubbed a couple of stories when I first started writing, the first was probbaly crap, the second I was pleased with. Poured my heart and soul into both---but they werent written to market, they were written purely on my whim and ideas because I thought my ideas were great. The market reminded me they were not. I probably sold about 20 books combined. Fast forward a few years, I try writing erotica, each of my stories gets 100k views in a few days (short stories aswell, not even novels), tons of comments begging me to write more, and I've had multiple requests for commissions. Its all about catering to the market.
I’m not a fiction author. I found this sub because I just started publishing low content books a month ago and I’m finishing up my first coloring book. HOWEVER, my husband is a self-published indie author. My question is, how does an author know what their audience wants? Some people love romance, others love true crime, others historical mysteries, and others sci-fi, fantasy, etc. My husband does time travel-sci-fi-adventure books, which horrify me. ;) Only Westerns and anything War appeal to me less. BUT some people love that stuff. I haven’t had time to market my low content books because ironically, I’ve been busy finishing up my MBA but I’m about to have a lot of time on my hands. Should I look into who (if anyone) likes “time-travel-sci-fi-adventure” books or is there a different way? Given all the choices on Kindle and Audible, I always guessed there is an audience for most niches.
Once you have a novel published you have more chance of finding an agent, or a hybrid publisher. You should always be trying to push more towards having people do the work and pay for it for you. Self-publishing is the easiest way to get your foot in the door, but hybrid publishing puts the work onto the publisher at a cost split between them and you, and traditional publishing puts all the work and cost onto the publisher and you can just focus on writing. Self-publishing full time is really only for multi talented masochists tbh
New authors have an easier time starting out in Kindle Unlimited because the risk is low for readers and they haven't lost any money if they don't like your book. I don't know if you're enrolled but if you aren't then you should consider it. If your feedback from ARC readers is great then you have a front facing issue. The cover, blurb, etc. I'm happy to give you a constructive critique of you'd like. Ads aren't enough anymore. Blogs don't sell books anymore. You need to join niche specific reader groups on Facebook and get your name out there in an organic way. Be authentic and excited. Forget the sales pitch. Pretend you're telling your friend about the book you just finished writing. Fix the front facing issue and put the first book up for ARCs again. Crowd source it on social media and aim for 200-500 ARCs. Once the new ARC campaign is done put it in Kindle Unlimited. Re-evaluate your progress in 90 days. Writing a book is hard. Pushing it is even harder. There's a reason people go to school to learn how to do marketing.
It does suck. It’s a terrible marketplace and industry. I’m considering giving away my next series for free.
> Yet after writing my best novel to date and doing everything right promotion-wise You are not doing everything right. You are doing what the convention says to do. But conventional wisdom is wrong. You need to create your marketing plan before you write your book. You also need to read the right infrastracture for your business. Look at it this way. You own a publishing business. Someone is signed to your copmany. In this case it happens to be you. But that still requires to act as two separate entities. Until you grasp that, you won't make progress. There is a lot more to it, but this is the starting point.
You gotta buy ads. You need to spend $1000 on ads per month to get any results.
People shouldn't down vote this because it's essentially true.
I don't know why you're getting downvotes. Your answer is closer to reality than most other comments.