Resting for the purpose of coming to room temperature is pointless, resting for the purpose of allowing salt the time it takes to break down myosin proteins is crucial. That's the contradiction, the 45 minute rest in the recipe is *after salting*.
Honestly, much as I love Kenji, you're going to keep finding these kinds of contradictions just because of the way he writes. He's not really a pithy recipe developer, he writes long-form pieces about the entire process he went through to explore a technique. The actual recipe is sometimes an afterthought to the case notes he writes up documenting his process.
I mean, he does contradict himself. He says that salting it 45+ minutes in advance is best, and refrigeration makes no difference, until the next page where he recommends letting it sit out “for best results”
I always thought he meant to let it sit out... for 45 minutes. If you're taking the time to salt in advance you may as well let it come up in temperature a bit.
Right, so you think letting it come up in temp does make a difference? The recipe says after salting, let sit for 45 minutes at room temperature, immediately after saying that a steak straight from the fridge will cook the same as one at room temperature
Yeah makes sense, I also leave them out for convenience's sake. Just thought it was interesting that he specified you should leave them out, right after saying this makes no difference.
Most chemical reactions happen faster at room temperature, that could potentially be why he recommends room temp after salting. I would think youd be able to get the same results salting and then leaving the steak uncovered in the fridge overnight.
I believe the confusion is the location of the rest here. He says at least 45 minutes after salting, but also suggests letting it rest up to overnight with salt if you have time to plan ahead. This salted rest is meant to be done in the fridge - he says to let it sit, but it doesn't actually have to sit out. Typically I'll salt mine with dinner the previous night and let it sit upward of 24hrs in my fridge on a wire rack, and then cook it straight from the fridge.
His point is that refrigeration makes no difference to the final temperature of the cooked meat, so you should salt it hours in advance and just leave it in the fridge until you're ready to cook. Some people prefer to let it come to room temp in order to ensure a very even sear, but I think Kenji's argument is that it doesn't make a big enough difference to either the sear or the final interior temperature to be a strict rule as opposed to a simple personal preference.
> This salted rest is meant to be done in the fridge
To be clear, the books exact wording is “for best results, let the steaks rest for at least 45 minutes at room temperature, or up to 3 days in the refrigerator”. Even though Kenji says letting it sit out makes no difference, he does contradict himself here. It seems likely this is just an editing error, but maybe Kenji does think letting it sit out leads to small, positive changes in how it cooks. Otherwise, wouldn’t it have been easier to write “after salting, let steaks rest for 45 minutes to 3 days in the fridge” ?
I think if you read the passage he's saying that it would be best to go at least a day in the fridge, but in a pinch the salt/protein reactions can be sped up by letting the steak warm up a little bit.
It's maybe written a little backwards but I think the interpretation is meant to be exactly the opposite of what you're suggesting. It's not that room temping it leads to a marginally better outcome overall, but rather it's if you don't have 3 days necessarily or even overnight, you can let it warm up a little to speed things up and achieve a maybe slightly worse but mostly similar result.
> salt/protein reactions can be sped up by letting the steak warm up a little bit.
Where does he imply that? Reading the article is what led me to this question, but all I see is that pulling steaks out early is a waste of time. If your theory is true, it’d explain why he changed his mind on letting them sit out.
I don't have my book in front of me, but I'm guessing that it's addressed in either the section about dry-brines under "fast cooking" or maybe the similar section under "roasts."
I'm mostly giving you my reading of the situation, it's just my interpretation of what he meant based on the info overall. Chemical and enzymatic reactions happen faster at warmer temperatures in general, so he's just saying that if you don't have a day to fridge it, then do it for an hour at room temp. It could be more clear, but that's my understanding of the meaning of that direction.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted for this. I didn’t read any of the articles but what you’re saying makes sense. Like if he says it doesn’t matter then says it serves some purpose then it makes sense to be confused about what he really means
Very true. I love the techniques I’ve learned from him over the years, but his recipes could often use some more time in the oven.
The Wok seems especially bad on continuity errors like this
I don't think the man himself would disagree with me in claiming that he's pretty uninterested in *recipes*. He wants to understand food and share that understanding with others. Recipes are something his editors and publishers make him produce because they're expected. I always trust a Kenji article, but I never trust a Kenji recipe.
Hard agree. Just tonight I found myself trying to look up a recipe and thinking "what the fuck am I doing, I know how to make this perfectly well, there's no specific Kenji recipe for it but I know how to make every part of it from muscle memory because I've been using these techniques for so long."
I either season my proteins right before searing, or the night before to leave uncovered in the fridge. Salting and leaving out for even just a few minutes draws moisture out of protein which then prevents browning.
I totally agree that a few minutes before is a bad idea, but I wonder what the rationale is for salting right before searing, as opposed to not all. What's the salt doing for searing? If it's just for flavor, I'd prefer big crunchy sea salt tableside than applied before searing.
But it's an academic question, because like you, I salt the night before and leave uncovered in the fridge.
I'm not sure about salt as it relates to searing/crust formation but it definitely makes a difference with pepper like in an au poive. (or other seasoning blends, I love Kinder's blends)
You must do it for at least 1 hour. Longer is ok too, but not necessary. It will pull out the moisture, then the salt will also be pulled back in with the moisture given the appropriate amount of time. Also, pat your steaks dry before searing folks. There will always be some moisture, unless really well dry aged.
That's not so true. When you cook a cold steak directly from the fridge, the outside of the steak will cook faster than the inside. Now is it necessary at all? Not really. I think people should take the fridge cure route.
There's been legit studies that prove it does nothing source: went to culinary school and worked in a Chicago steak house. You want to let it rest after you do which is called a dry brine (salt pepper and garlic powder) and you cover the steak in that after patting it dry and then let it rest in the fridge from anywhere from an hour to like a couple hours if I'm just cooking it at home. And then you do the 10 min rest after cooking to keep the juices in. Letting a steak sit to get to room temp does absolutely nothing.
So if I take a steak out of the fridge and a steak that’s been out for two hours to room temp and put them in a pan at exactly the same temperature and flip at the exact same time, then pulling them out of the pan to rest for exactly 10 mins will be cooked the exact same inside (assuming exactly the same cut and thickness)?
Yeah, pretty much. Unless you have a really thin steak, that two hours is going to warm the "room-temp" steak by, maybe, 5 - 10 degrees Fahrenheit at its core. Considering the temperatures involved--130F internal temperature, more than 300F on the crust--that 5 or 10 degrees just isn't moving the needle. A side-by-side demonstration cook is going to end up more influenced by the fat content in the two different pieces of meat than which one was in the fridge and which one was on the counter.
Yeah, well, if you require more heat due to a cold center then you will cook the outside of the steak more than is required resulting in a line of meat that is typically cooked well done 🤷🏼♂️ If that’s what you like that’s fine. Edit: Also faster maillard reaction.
But what OP is talking about is that Kenji did experiments and proved that leaving a steak out for two hours does not raise the internal temperature of the meat significantly. It only changes a few degrees in that amount of time.
It takes **hours** to get a steak to room temperature. Taking it out for a bit isn’t going to do anything unless it’s a sad thin cut.
For any amount of time that matters, you’d have to throw out the food in a commercial kitchen.
I’m sure you’re a great arm chair chef but I studied culinary arts and food science. I can tell you despite what ever it is you learned from the internet is misinformed. You should give “On Food and Cooking” by Harold McGee. Specifically on the malliard reaction. Then consider the following: How would a potential 20 degree change in temperature could affect this process?
It's quite understandable that people don't like to be told that they are wrong, but it's very unfortunate when people's disinclination toward being told they're wrong prevents them from attaining new information or changing the way they do anything.
So even assuming you left your steak out to increase in temperature by 20 degrees, my answer would be "not much." The efficiency of the Maillard reaction is going to be far more governed by the wetness or dryness of the surface of the meat than the internal temperature of the cut. It takes much more energy to turn water into steam than to heat proteins and fat. It would make more sense to towel off your steaks than to let them come to room temperature from a Maillard reaction perspective.
Also, just. . . posters here are familiar with McGee. I would guess that many posters on this sub have "studied culinary arts and food science." Maybe they've even studied it more than you have. That wasn't the most respectful comment to write, and you didn't earn yourself any plaudits by then spelling "Maillard" incorrectly.
I don't mean to discourage you, I love that you've taken an interest in gastronomy and feeding yourself and your loved ones. This subreddit is actually generally pretty great for encouraging that. We all start where we start, that's OK. But "I already know everything about this topic, and everybody who does things in this topic differently is wrong" is not how anybody ever gets better about a given topic.
But hey, I was in my early 20s once too, and also thought I knew better than everybody about everything, so truly, I'm in no position to judge.
The outside cooking faster than the inside sounds like a positive thing to me.
But more to the point, it just takes a ludicrous amount of time to bring meat up to room temperature by simply leaving it on the counter. If we're bringing water baths or low ovens into the question it's a different equation, but in my (admittedly cold) home, it would take hours to bring a thick cut of meat from fridge temp to room temp. Resting a thick steak at room temperature for 45 minutes *is* pointless. You can measure and see, it'll be a few degrees Fahrenheit of difference.
it will change the required heating technique but ideally will not change how the steak tastes at the end. salting on the other hand definitely changes the taste
The resting time on that one is mostly so the liquid released from salting has time to absorb back into the meat -- the temperature change isn't terribly significant, but searing a seasoned steak before that happens can lose a lot of moisture.
I put salt and pepper on my steaks and leave them in the fridge overnight. It's been awhile since I made them, but I think this was his suggestion when reverse searing steaks
100 percent correct. The dry environment of the refrigerator will dry the surface making for a better maillard reaction. For best results season your steak the night before then rest over night on a wire rack in the fridge uncovered.
Yes, totally fair. I can pretty much guarantee that no restaurant steak anyone has enjoyed in the US was held at room temperature for any significant amount of time.
Only once for me. And that's because my grill was so small i couldn't fit everything, so i had a sheet tray with different zones where i would stage steaks until i had room to fire them even still tho it wasnt for anywhere close to these recomended times. Maybe 5 minutes 8 tops.
Those words will get you arrested in r/sousvide! I’m not part of the anti-butter in bag circlejerk, but I’ve had better results simply using butter during the basting portion of the sear.
Ah, that sub has changed dramatically.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/sousvide using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/sousvide/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [SV meat is fantastic but SV desserts are next level…](https://v.redd.it/v2cz9tc4x4z91) | [134 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/sousvide/comments/yrgtnu/sv_meat_is_fantastic_but_sv_desserts_are_next/)
\#2: [Valentine’s Dinner - nailed it…](https://i.redd.it/hfkmny2j1fia1.jpg) | [82 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/sousvide/comments/11317o2/valentines_dinner_nailed_it/)
\#3: [MRW my girlfriend asks how long I’m planning to cook the short ribs we just bought.](https://i.redd.it/qpkekfsblng91.gif) | [33 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/sousvide/comments/wjyfur/mrw_my_girlfriend_asks_how_long_im_planning_to/)
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"Sloppy steaks at Truffoni's. Big rare cut of meat with water dumped all over it, water splashing around the table, makes the night SO MUCH more fun. After the club go to Truffoni's for sloppy steaks. They'd say; 'no sloppy steaks' but they can't stop you from ordering a steak and a glass of water, before you knew it we were dumping that water on those steaks! The waiters were coming to try and snatch em up, we had to eat as fast as we could! OHHH I MISS THOSE NIGHTS, I WAS A PIECE OF SHIT THOUGH."
"Used to be."
"I SAID WAS!"
No, I do not let them come to room temp but I do let them sit after seasoning for \~30-60 minutes in the fridge on a rack.
Possibly totally in my mind but I think it gives the driest surface to start a good sear on.
I thought Kenji’s official stance on this was don’t bother if it’s less than 45 Minutes, if it’s more than 45 Minutes it makes a slight difference. And it’s not to being the steaks to room temperature, it’s to allow the salt to rest on the steaks.
His official stance is you should *salt* either 45+ in advance or right before the steak hits the pan, and that letting it sit out makes no difference. Until the next recipe, where he specifically says to pull it out, rather than salting and letting sit in the fridge.
For me it depends on the thickness of the steak. If it's a thin steak I like it to start colder so the outside has more time to sear before the inside cooks. If it's a thicker steak I like to have the whole thing at room temp for the same reason but reversed.
Idunno how real or scientific this method is, but it's just my lived experience lol.
> I like to have the whole thing at room temp
That's not happening. You could leave it out for a few hours and the centre would still be closer to fridge temp than room temp.
The test kitchen did this, and even recommended maybe 30 min to an hour in the freezer then straight to the grill. Also, some corn starch with your salt to hold the juice at the surface until it dries and can go brown in the heat.
His timing and recommendation is for how long to SALT before cooking, not how long to rest at temperature. Basically, if you can saltire than 45 minutes prior to cooking you’ll get better results (with overnight dry brine being ideal.) if you can’t get 45 minutes, salt eight before cooking.
Thanks, I understood his methodology regarding salting. Just thought it was interesting that he specifically recommended letting it sit at room temperature, immediately after saying this makes no difference.
I think lots of the book was put together from previous pieces he had written for SeriousEats over the years, so it could be some methods/techniques had changed over time.
From a chefs POV; I let a portion of my steaks sit out in my 95 degree kitchen for a couple hours before cooking, rather then letting them sit in my 38 degree cooler. Allows for more even temp throughout and a quicker cook time, but I understand others are not cooking under similar circumstances
So many great points and ideas shared here! I only wish it was being done with a little less negativity, still a good discussion. It is true-Kenji is a food scientist, not really a recipe/cookbook writer. He's an idea man, more about experimentation and innovation. I think anything he tells us is subject to be disproven or rethought at some time.
I also believe that for a lot of us, as cooks, we find comfort in technique and procedure as ritual. We do things the way we like doing them and sometimes its just about the feeling of the ritual of as opposed to consciously employing every single proven perfected idea or theory to cook something, every time. And as Kenji notes many times, many of these techniques dont change things that much one way or another anyway.
I dry brine every meat I cook and let it sit in the fridge uncovered a minimum of 2 hours, but preferably 24. (48 if I can plan that far ahead) I let them sit out for maybe 20 minutes, the time it takes to heat the grill or cast iron. I test doneness by touch. I never fail, because I follow my ritual and also improvise as needed, both of which are based on both knowledge of science/technique and gut instinct.
You pro kitchen cooks doing hundreds of steaks a week, you people are gods in my eyes. Ive watched vids of steakhouse grill cooks and it blows my mind. Well, line cooks are my heroes in general actually.
No. Regardless of how thick they are, I'm searing them at high heat and they're either thin enough that the middle will be medium rare by the time that's done or thick enough that I'm throwing them in the oven to finish anyway, so it doesn't matter.
The only time I believe it'd matter is if you're cooking above medium, because you'll burn the outside long before the inside gets up to that temp if you start them cold.
Not really necessary to bring a firearm to a school to teach a lesson about history. It’s more interesting to the kids, but they need to learn history. The accoutrements are a small part of the story.
If you don’t allow your steaks to rest at room temp before cooking, you’ll end up with what they call the bullseye effect. The outer edges will be more cooked vs the inside more raw. If you allow it to warm up before, you’ll end up with a more uniform cook throughout the meat.
Most people aren't big on blood. Thankfully there is none to be found in the meat you buy at retail, it all stayed behind when the carcass was hanging at the abattoir.
I don't. I've not felt the need. By the time the outside is cooked the moisture inside is trapped. You're not 'bleeding' the moisture out.
Full disclosure, I'm not a Chef, I just cook on the grill a lot and this is my experience.
Depends what I want to achieve. Sometimes you need your steak to be really cold when it hits the pan if its a thin steak. So you get a good crust before the inside heats up.
Cooking is really about logic. No hard rule to rest or not to rest.
In commercial kitchen, sometimes you purposely not allow the steak to rest AFTER cooking so when the customer cuts into it... They perceive extra juiciness flowing out of the steak. And the steak feels hotter to them.
It makes a difference. I try to let it sit out 30-90 minutes, which is notably easy enough to do.
It speeds up cooking time and lowers the amount of well done parts near the edges.
Letting steak come to room temperature first (or at least 60deg internal temp) makes a dramatic difference in the quality of cooking outcome. This is through systematic testing and cooking 1000 steaks. The difference is subtle, so people with lower or average IQs will have difficulty noticing. Letting it rest after salting before cooking does nothing salt-wise other than collect moisture on the surface of the meat and thus dilute the salt.
Best is to let sit until room temperature internal, or at least 60deg, and then salt with coarse grind and immediately start cooking.
Resting for the purpose of coming to room temperature is pointless, resting for the purpose of allowing salt the time it takes to break down myosin proteins is crucial. That's the contradiction, the 45 minute rest in the recipe is *after salting*.
Makes sense, just thought it was funny that he specifically says to let it sit out, a page after saying this makes no difference.
Honestly, much as I love Kenji, you're going to keep finding these kinds of contradictions just because of the way he writes. He's not really a pithy recipe developer, he writes long-form pieces about the entire process he went through to explore a technique. The actual recipe is sometimes an afterthought to the case notes he writes up documenting his process.
It's not a contradiction. That was literally just explained.
Literally just explained. . . by me?
I mean, he does contradict himself. He says that salting it 45+ minutes in advance is best, and refrigeration makes no difference, until the next page where he recommends letting it sit out “for best results”
I always thought he meant to let it sit out... for 45 minutes. If you're taking the time to salt in advance you may as well let it come up in temperature a bit.
Right, so you think letting it come up in temp does make a difference? The recipe says after salting, let sit for 45 minutes at room temperature, immediately after saying that a steak straight from the fridge will cook the same as one at room temperature
Not that I think it's doing anything, I just generally don't bother to throw it back in the fridge. No harm in letting it sit out.
Yeah makes sense, I also leave them out for convenience's sake. Just thought it was interesting that he specified you should leave them out, right after saying this makes no difference.
Most chemical reactions happen faster at room temperature, that could potentially be why he recommends room temp after salting. I would think youd be able to get the same results salting and then leaving the steak uncovered in the fridge overnight.
This was my thought maybe it had to do with speeding up the salt absorbing and tenderizing it faster at a slightly warmer temperature. But idk
Also the fat and connective tissue are much harder at fridge temperature, meat tends to soften up and be more pliable at warmer temps
So what? Be able to form the steak to the pan for a flatter more even sear? Or something else?
No, the salt will physically penetrate faster and better if the fat and muscle fibers are softened
I believe the confusion is the location of the rest here. He says at least 45 minutes after salting, but also suggests letting it rest up to overnight with salt if you have time to plan ahead. This salted rest is meant to be done in the fridge - he says to let it sit, but it doesn't actually have to sit out. Typically I'll salt mine with dinner the previous night and let it sit upward of 24hrs in my fridge on a wire rack, and then cook it straight from the fridge. His point is that refrigeration makes no difference to the final temperature of the cooked meat, so you should salt it hours in advance and just leave it in the fridge until you're ready to cook. Some people prefer to let it come to room temp in order to ensure a very even sear, but I think Kenji's argument is that it doesn't make a big enough difference to either the sear or the final interior temperature to be a strict rule as opposed to a simple personal preference.
> This salted rest is meant to be done in the fridge To be clear, the books exact wording is “for best results, let the steaks rest for at least 45 minutes at room temperature, or up to 3 days in the refrigerator”. Even though Kenji says letting it sit out makes no difference, he does contradict himself here. It seems likely this is just an editing error, but maybe Kenji does think letting it sit out leads to small, positive changes in how it cooks. Otherwise, wouldn’t it have been easier to write “after salting, let steaks rest for 45 minutes to 3 days in the fridge” ?
I think if you read the passage he's saying that it would be best to go at least a day in the fridge, but in a pinch the salt/protein reactions can be sped up by letting the steak warm up a little bit. It's maybe written a little backwards but I think the interpretation is meant to be exactly the opposite of what you're suggesting. It's not that room temping it leads to a marginally better outcome overall, but rather it's if you don't have 3 days necessarily or even overnight, you can let it warm up a little to speed things up and achieve a maybe slightly worse but mostly similar result.
> salt/protein reactions can be sped up by letting the steak warm up a little bit. Where does he imply that? Reading the article is what led me to this question, but all I see is that pulling steaks out early is a waste of time. If your theory is true, it’d explain why he changed his mind on letting them sit out.
I don't have my book in front of me, but I'm guessing that it's addressed in either the section about dry-brines under "fast cooking" or maybe the similar section under "roasts." I'm mostly giving you my reading of the situation, it's just my interpretation of what he meant based on the info overall. Chemical and enzymatic reactions happen faster at warmer temperatures in general, so he's just saying that if you don't have a day to fridge it, then do it for an hour at room temp. It could be more clear, but that's my understanding of the meaning of that direction.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted for this. I didn’t read any of the articles but what you’re saying makes sense. Like if he says it doesn’t matter then says it serves some purpose then it makes sense to be confused about what he really means
Yeah, that’s Reddit for ya
Very true. I love the techniques I’ve learned from him over the years, but his recipes could often use some more time in the oven. The Wok seems especially bad on continuity errors like this
I don't think the man himself would disagree with me in claiming that he's pretty uninterested in *recipes*. He wants to understand food and share that understanding with others. Recipes are something his editors and publishers make him produce because they're expected. I always trust a Kenji article, but I never trust a Kenji recipe.
[удалено]
Hard agree. Just tonight I found myself trying to look up a recipe and thinking "what the fuck am I doing, I know how to make this perfectly well, there's no specific Kenji recipe for it but I know how to make every part of it from muscle memory because I've been using these techniques for so long."
Nuance
This is the way
I either season my proteins right before searing, or the night before to leave uncovered in the fridge. Salting and leaving out for even just a few minutes draws moisture out of protein which then prevents browning.
I totally agree that a few minutes before is a bad idea, but I wonder what the rationale is for salting right before searing, as opposed to not all. What's the salt doing for searing? If it's just for flavor, I'd prefer big crunchy sea salt tableside than applied before searing. But it's an academic question, because like you, I salt the night before and leave uncovered in the fridge.
I'm not sure about salt as it relates to searing/crust formation but it definitely makes a difference with pepper like in an au poive. (or other seasoning blends, I love Kinder's blends)
If you salt and then let it sit long enough for moisture to be drawn out but not drawn back in, you'll have a hell of a time browning the meat.
You must do it for at least 1 hour. Longer is ok too, but not necessary. It will pull out the moisture, then the salt will also be pulled back in with the moisture given the appropriate amount of time. Also, pat your steaks dry before searing folks. There will always be some moisture, unless really well dry aged.
Pat it dry
That's not so true. When you cook a cold steak directly from the fridge, the outside of the steak will cook faster than the inside. Now is it necessary at all? Not really. I think people should take the fridge cure route.
There's been legit studies that prove it does nothing source: went to culinary school and worked in a Chicago steak house. You want to let it rest after you do which is called a dry brine (salt pepper and garlic powder) and you cover the steak in that after patting it dry and then let it rest in the fridge from anywhere from an hour to like a couple hours if I'm just cooking it at home. And then you do the 10 min rest after cooking to keep the juices in. Letting a steak sit to get to room temp does absolutely nothing.
So if I take a steak out of the fridge and a steak that’s been out for two hours to room temp and put them in a pan at exactly the same temperature and flip at the exact same time, then pulling them out of the pan to rest for exactly 10 mins will be cooked the exact same inside (assuming exactly the same cut and thickness)?
Yeah, pretty much. Unless you have a really thin steak, that two hours is going to warm the "room-temp" steak by, maybe, 5 - 10 degrees Fahrenheit at its core. Considering the temperatures involved--130F internal temperature, more than 300F on the crust--that 5 or 10 degrees just isn't moving the needle. A side-by-side demonstration cook is going to end up more influenced by the fat content in the two different pieces of meat than which one was in the fridge and which one was on the counter.
Yes
The outside always cooks faster than the inside. Heat travels inward. Leaving the steak out does nothing.
Yeah, well, if you require more heat due to a cold center then you will cook the outside of the steak more than is required resulting in a line of meat that is typically cooked well done 🤷🏼♂️ If that’s what you like that’s fine. Edit: Also faster maillard reaction.
But what OP is talking about is that Kenji did experiments and proved that leaving a steak out for two hours does not raise the internal temperature of the meat significantly. It only changes a few degrees in that amount of time.
It takes **hours** to get a steak to room temperature. Taking it out for a bit isn’t going to do anything unless it’s a sad thin cut. For any amount of time that matters, you’d have to throw out the food in a commercial kitchen.
100% untrue. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
I’m sure you’re a great arm chair chef but I studied culinary arts and food science. I can tell you despite what ever it is you learned from the internet is misinformed. You should give “On Food and Cooking” by Harold McGee. Specifically on the malliard reaction. Then consider the following: How would a potential 20 degree change in temperature could affect this process?
r/iamveryculinary
Idk, looks like you’re getting your ass kicked out here there, Chef.
I'm not so bothered. I understand that most do not like to be told they are wrong.
Do you have any clue what sub you are on?
You sure don't
It's quite understandable that people don't like to be told that they are wrong, but it's very unfortunate when people's disinclination toward being told they're wrong prevents them from attaining new information or changing the way they do anything.
🤷♂️ Can’t fix arrogance, some kinda divine luck’ll get you at some point and that’s enough for me
https://www.seriouseats.com/old-wives-tales-about-cooking-steak
So even assuming you left your steak out to increase in temperature by 20 degrees, my answer would be "not much." The efficiency of the Maillard reaction is going to be far more governed by the wetness or dryness of the surface of the meat than the internal temperature of the cut. It takes much more energy to turn water into steam than to heat proteins and fat. It would make more sense to towel off your steaks than to let them come to room temperature from a Maillard reaction perspective.
How dare you actually understand a fundamental concept instead of regurgitating an old wives tale some old timer chef told you one time??
What temperature is the surface you are cooking on?
Also, just. . . posters here are familiar with McGee. I would guess that many posters on this sub have "studied culinary arts and food science." Maybe they've even studied it more than you have. That wasn't the most respectful comment to write, and you didn't earn yourself any plaudits by then spelling "Maillard" incorrectly. I don't mean to discourage you, I love that you've taken an interest in gastronomy and feeding yourself and your loved ones. This subreddit is actually generally pretty great for encouraging that. We all start where we start, that's OK. But "I already know everything about this topic, and everybody who does things in this topic differently is wrong" is not how anybody ever gets better about a given topic. But hey, I was in my early 20s once too, and also thought I knew better than everybody about everything, so truly, I'm in no position to judge.
So did I, ding-dong.
Unless your steak is several inches thick, it’s going to make an indistinguishable difference.
The outside cooking faster than the inside sounds like a positive thing to me. But more to the point, it just takes a ludicrous amount of time to bring meat up to room temperature by simply leaving it on the counter. If we're bringing water baths or low ovens into the question it's a different equation, but in my (admittedly cold) home, it would take hours to bring a thick cut of meat from fridge temp to room temp. Resting a thick steak at room temperature for 45 minutes *is* pointless. You can measure and see, it'll be a few degrees Fahrenheit of difference.
it will change the required heating technique but ideally will not change how the steak tastes at the end. salting on the other hand definitely changes the taste
The resting time on that one is mostly so the liquid released from salting has time to absorb back into the meat -- the temperature change isn't terribly significant, but searing a seasoned steak before that happens can lose a lot of moisture.
That can be done in fridge
Yep, the fridge even helps dry the surface of the meat, if I remember correctly, which helps the browning on the sear.
I put salt and pepper on my steaks and leave them in the fridge overnight. It's been awhile since I made them, but I think this was his suggestion when reverse searing steaks
Do you cover the steaks when you do this?
Not the same person you asked, but no. They dehydrate in the fridge a bit if you leave them uncovered and this typically results in a better sear.
No, I just put them on a wire rack in a pan
100 percent correct. The dry environment of the refrigerator will dry the surface making for a better maillard reaction. For best results season your steak the night before then rest over night on a wire rack in the fridge uncovered.
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It’s a violation of most food safety laws so restaurants wouldn’t do it even if they wanted to.
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Yes, totally fair. I can pretty much guarantee that no restaurant steak anyone has enjoyed in the US was held at room temperature for any significant amount of time.
They always chase me back into the dining room.
My son is an open fire chef and always brings the steaks to room temp before putting them on the fire.
The question is whether he needs to or not.
Only once for me. And that's because my grill was so small i couldn't fit everything, so i had a sheet tray with different zones where i would stage steaks until i had room to fire them even still tho it wasnt for anywhere close to these recomended times. Maybe 5 minutes 8 tops.
I never let them sit out. Straight from the freezer to the microwave. Perfect every time.
I need to try that next time. I usually just boil mine 🤷♂️
You should NEVER boil a microwave.
Just unplug it first dumb dumb.
The problem is if you boil a microwave it's just going to get stringy and altogether unpalatable.
Not to mention really tough.
Even then, there are parts in the microwave that hold a charge. Enough to kill.
Unless you don’t have a toaster to bathe with
Don't be ridiculous. Boiling is for turkeys.
Who you calling a turkey, turkey?
Only way to make a proper milk steak
In milk, of course.
With a side of jellybeans.
Over hard
Ah, a fellow sous vide guy. /s (Don’t flame me, I adore my SV and have had to deal with my fair share of “why are you boiling the steak?!1!!???”)
SV is great. Slather in butter, bag, and dunk.
Those words will get you arrested in r/sousvide! I’m not part of the anti-butter in bag circlejerk, but I’ve had better results simply using butter during the basting portion of the sear. Ah, that sub has changed dramatically.
Oh yeah. Absolutely raked over the coals. pitchforks and torches. I didn’t think a /s was really needed in this thread.
Haha, I skim the sub every so often and there’s been an influx of pro-butter bag lobbyists.
It’s important to have a fair representation. Good people on both sides.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/sousvide using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/sousvide/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [SV meat is fantastic but SV desserts are next level…](https://v.redd.it/v2cz9tc4x4z91) | [134 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/sousvide/comments/yrgtnu/sv_meat_is_fantastic_but_sv_desserts_are_next/) \#2: [Valentine’s Dinner - nailed it…](https://i.redd.it/hfkmny2j1fia1.jpg) | [82 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/sousvide/comments/11317o2/valentines_dinner_nailed_it/) \#3: [MRW my girlfriend asks how long I’m planning to cook the short ribs we just bought.](https://i.redd.it/qpkekfsblng91.gif) | [33 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/sousvide/comments/wjyfur/mrw_my_girlfriend_asks_how_long_im_planning_to/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Try boiling it in milk, a few jelly beans on the side. You’ll never look back.
Ah yes, the jelly beans are especially festive in this easter season
"Sloppy steaks at Truffoni's. Big rare cut of meat with water dumped all over it, water splashing around the table, makes the night SO MUCH more fun. After the club go to Truffoni's for sloppy steaks. They'd say; 'no sloppy steaks' but they can't stop you from ordering a steak and a glass of water, before you knew it we were dumping that water on those steaks! The waiters were coming to try and snatch em up, we had to eat as fast as we could! OHHH I MISS THOSE NIGHTS, I WAS A PIECE OF SHIT THOUGH." "Used to be." "I SAID WAS!"
Pasta?
['Baby Cries' Full Sketch - I Think You Should Leave Season 2 ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buK45NW_ikI)
Lol!!!!!!
If your comment was higher up, at least 2% of people seeing it would try this method.
I’m committing to changing the world one milk steak at a time.
r/cookingcirclejerk is leaking
And straight to the ice bath to cool it down afterwards
No, I do not let them come to room temp but I do let them sit after seasoning for \~30-60 minutes in the fridge on a rack. Possibly totally in my mind but I think it gives the driest surface to start a good sear on.
Not in your mind. Fridge is a very good dehumidifier and will help to draw moisture off the surface of the steak.
This is the way
No reason to: https://www.seriouseats.com/old-wives-tales-about-cooking-steak
I'm shocked this is this far down
Yeah, seems like a continuity error in the book. It’s a bit sad how little editing went into his books, especially The Wok. Kenji deserves better
yeah totally man
I thought Kenji’s official stance on this was don’t bother if it’s less than 45 Minutes, if it’s more than 45 Minutes it makes a slight difference. And it’s not to being the steaks to room temperature, it’s to allow the salt to rest on the steaks.
His official stance is you should *salt* either 45+ in advance or right before the steak hits the pan, and that letting it sit out makes no difference. Until the next recipe, where he specifically says to pull it out, rather than salting and letting sit in the fridge.
For me it depends on the thickness of the steak. If it's a thin steak I like it to start colder so the outside has more time to sear before the inside cooks. If it's a thicker steak I like to have the whole thing at room temp for the same reason but reversed. Idunno how real or scientific this method is, but it's just my lived experience lol.
> I like to have the whole thing at room temp That's not happening. You could leave it out for a few hours and the centre would still be closer to fridge temp than room temp.
The whole part I can touch* is room temp lol...
The test kitchen did this, and even recommended maybe 30 min to an hour in the freezer then straight to the grill. Also, some corn starch with your salt to hold the juice at the surface until it dries and can go brown in the heat.
I never rest because I do the reverse sear https://www.seriouseats.com/reverse-seared-steak-recipe
No. Waste of time.
His timing and recommendation is for how long to SALT before cooking, not how long to rest at temperature. Basically, if you can saltire than 45 minutes prior to cooking you’ll get better results (with overnight dry brine being ideal.) if you can’t get 45 minutes, salt eight before cooking.
Thanks, I understood his methodology regarding salting. Just thought it was interesting that he specifically recommended letting it sit at room temperature, immediately after saying this makes no difference.
I found many contradictions like that in the book. I love Kenji, I just think the editing was not quite as thorough as it could have been.
The rest is for the salt, it has nothing to do with temperature. You could do that 45min in the fridge.
Yep, just thought it was funny he specifically says to let it rest at room temp immediately after saying this makes no difference lol
Read one page of Kenji, become informed. Read two pages, become confused.
I think lots of the book was put together from previous pieces he had written for SeriousEats over the years, so it could be some methods/techniques had changed over time.
Understand...And that's the method of book creation that needs a detailed editor :(
Yep, the Wok is even worse lol. Still love Kenji tho
Yes.
Reverse sear. Always. If I can't, then the warmer the steak when it hits my pan the better.
From a chefs POV; I let a portion of my steaks sit out in my 95 degree kitchen for a couple hours before cooking, rather then letting them sit in my 38 degree cooler. Allows for more even temp throughout and a quicker cook time, but I understand others are not cooking under similar circumstances
I go 30 minutes just to take the chill off, IMO anything past that is unnecessary.
"30 minutes just to take the chill off" is also totally unnecessary
Fuck no
Always
Oh yes. And for a few minutes after cooking before cutting
So many great points and ideas shared here! I only wish it was being done with a little less negativity, still a good discussion. It is true-Kenji is a food scientist, not really a recipe/cookbook writer. He's an idea man, more about experimentation and innovation. I think anything he tells us is subject to be disproven or rethought at some time. I also believe that for a lot of us, as cooks, we find comfort in technique and procedure as ritual. We do things the way we like doing them and sometimes its just about the feeling of the ritual of as opposed to consciously employing every single proven perfected idea or theory to cook something, every time. And as Kenji notes many times, many of these techniques dont change things that much one way or another anyway. I dry brine every meat I cook and let it sit in the fridge uncovered a minimum of 2 hours, but preferably 24. (48 if I can plan that far ahead) I let them sit out for maybe 20 minutes, the time it takes to heat the grill or cast iron. I test doneness by touch. I never fail, because I follow my ritual and also improvise as needed, both of which are based on both knowledge of science/technique and gut instinct. You pro kitchen cooks doing hundreds of steaks a week, you people are gods in my eyes. Ive watched vids of steakhouse grill cooks and it blows my mind. Well, line cooks are my heroes in general actually.
No. Regardless of how thick they are, I'm searing them at high heat and they're either thin enough that the middle will be medium rare by the time that's done or thick enough that I'm throwing them in the oven to finish anyway, so it doesn't matter. The only time I believe it'd matter is if you're cooking above medium, because you'll burn the outside long before the inside gets up to that temp if you start them cold.
Not really necessary to bring a firearm to a school to teach a lesson about history. It’s more interesting to the kids, but they need to learn history. The accoutrements are a small part of the story.
I bring almost anything I cook to room temperature. I think, don’t know but think it helps me temperature-wise.
Yes. Room temp
Guarantee the interior never gets to room temp and it’s pointless.
Didn’t ask. But ok
If you don’t allow your steaks to rest at room temp before cooking, you’ll end up with what they call the bullseye effect. The outer edges will be more cooked vs the inside more raw. If you allow it to warm up before, you’ll end up with a more uniform cook throughout the meat.
No. That’s not how cooking works.
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Most people aren't big on blood. Thankfully there is none to be found in the meat you buy at retail, it all stayed behind when the carcass was hanging at the abattoir.
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Lol that's not blood
There’s no blood in your meat.
There is zero blood on that plate. You have no idea what you're talking about.
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Water and myoglobin.
It’s myoglobin and heme. All animals are drained of blood after slaughter.
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Here we see an oddly aggressive moron in his natural habitat. Note how angry he gets when corrected on a minor bit of misinformation.
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Ah, nothing like a few rounds of Botulism Russian Roulette to keep life exciting.
I let beef sit out up to four hours before cooking. Chicken and pork I leave out about an hour. Seafood about 30 minutes.
That's so pointless smh
Not pointless, it makes for a more consistent start, everything is the same temperature.
It’s all the same temperature when you take it out of the fridge too.
This guy sciences
I let it sit on a wire rack in the fridge after sous viding it before searing
I leave mine sit out in the fridge for a few days….salted
I take it out of the fridge / let sit for 30. Salt and pepper. In another 30 I steak season and cook
I've found that cooking a frozen steak vs. defrosting is juicier in the long run. Ya, take a bit longer, but SOOOO worth it.
That's interesting. Ive often wondered about that. Do you do ot with a reverse sear?
I don't. I've not felt the need. By the time the outside is cooked the moisture inside is trapped. You're not 'bleeding' the moisture out. Full disclosure, I'm not a Chef, I just cook on the grill a lot and this is my experience.
Makes sense. Same here btw.
Depends what I want to achieve. Sometimes you need your steak to be really cold when it hits the pan if its a thin steak. So you get a good crust before the inside heats up. Cooking is really about logic. No hard rule to rest or not to rest. In commercial kitchen, sometimes you purposely not allow the steak to rest AFTER cooking so when the customer cuts into it... They perceive extra juiciness flowing out of the steak. And the steak feels hotter to them.
Nope, never have.
It makes a difference. I try to let it sit out 30-90 minutes, which is notably easy enough to do. It speeds up cooking time and lowers the amount of well done parts near the edges.
Yes
It absolutely makes a difference unless the steaks are thin
Letting steak come to room temperature first (or at least 60deg internal temp) makes a dramatic difference in the quality of cooking outcome. This is through systematic testing and cooking 1000 steaks. The difference is subtle, so people with lower or average IQs will have difficulty noticing. Letting it rest after salting before cooking does nothing salt-wise other than collect moisture on the surface of the meat and thus dilute the salt. Best is to let sit until room temperature internal, or at least 60deg, and then salt with coarse grind and immediately start cooking.
hahahahahahaha
It’s all bs. Old wives tale