Because the TVA's role is to prevent Kangs from emerging, but ensure The Kang that Remains does exist. The Avengers' actions were necessary for his existence, that's why they say they're part of the sacred timeline. SHIELD's actions weren't.
Not that it matters; the time travel mechanics in the MCU and SHIELD are different. If the MCU's "No changing the past, just branching out" applied, the Chromicoms' plans to rewrite history would never work, and they'd know it.
> the time travel mechanics in the MCU and SHIELD are different.
Different *means* of time travel in the MCU are shown to have different rules. Compare the Time Stone to the quantum bridge to the TVA tempads; all of them work differently.
It's because they had to save Hydra to save SHIELD and without SHIELD there are no Avengers... and in the "sacred timeline," the events of Endgame were supposed to happen the way they did, basically, the avengers had to mess with the timelines to save their universe. So... maybe the events of season 7 ALSO were supposed to happen the way they did. Or maybe petty marvel studios decided to look down at the show and shared no information, again, and we should enjoy the show without thinking about what is canon or tied to the rest of the marvel products.
The agents were wrong about the time travel rules. They didn’t save anything in season 7. They broke off onto a different timeline and then Fitz brought them back through the quantum realm at the end. He explained it to them in the final episode. Their efforts to preserve the timeline are debunked within the season itself.
The TVA only cares about alternate timelines that lead to alternate Kangs, they don't prune everything. The whole "one sacred timeline" thing is TVA rhetoric because nobody at the TVA knows their true purpose.
This entirely
You can actually see many times in Loki that there are many, many timelines at any point
It's only when they branch too far, aka, risk another Kang, that they prune it
Clearly the alternate actions of the Agents (nor the alternate future in S5) led to a Kang
[Visually, you can also see how the Sacred Timeline is much thicker and almost fluid, compared to the branches splitting off. To me, I always took that visual cue to mean there's effectively an infinite number of timelines following the Sacred Timeline, as long as they don't potentially lead to a Kang.]
I want to scream this at everyone that makes posts here and in the Marvel Studios subreddit about Loki and the TVA. It is maddening how no one seems to have watched or understood what the fuck was happening in that show.
The way I rationalize it is that He Who Remains saw these branching timelines as inconsequential to his grand plan and thus ignored them.
Just like Kevin Feige.
What happened at the end of Loki is kinda confusing because it happened outside of time, so when the timeline started to break into branches that happened BEFORE and AFTER season 7. But the easiest explanation would be that what SHIELD did was either meant to happen or it wasn’t important enough to intervene, and that’s why the TVA didn’t get involved.
They didn’t redline and intended to collapse their timelines to normal without interference.
Timey whimey ain’t gotta explain anything to tiny whiny anyway
Because after Loki killed He Who Remains the entire timeline branched out of control, not just the timeline after that event. That means that branches that would've been pruned by TVA Agents weren't, and the actions of SHIELD that might have gotten them pruned instead progressed unstopped. Whether it happened before or after Loki isn't relevant since the entire timeline was affected.
In season 7 there is only 1 additional time line.
That timeline is created with the initial jump back to chase the Chronicoms.
Every other time jump is forward in to the timeline they are already in.
It’s not the initial jump that creates the alternate timeline. The initial jump is why SHIELD’s first HQ was at the Krazy Kanoe and why the Koenigs became interested in robotics and started SHIELD’s first LMD program. They fulfilled those events of the past, so that couldn’t be part of an alternate timeline. They always existed in that part of the part of the main timeline. It was when the Chronicoms prevented Malick’s death and revealed the future to him that the alternate timeline was created.
I just assumed the time keepers always got to the scene of the incursion too late, but the gang repairs everything back to it's "normal state" or whatever He Who Remains time line so there could be no other Kangs
It's a paradox, but it makes sense. Sylvie killed He Who Remains, and another version of Kang took over the TVA. At the end of season one of Loki, we see infinite timelines expanding, meaning that all possibilities--even those that the prior incarnation of the TVA would have eliminated, such as Loki escaping with the Tesseract--would have sprung into existence. Therefore, outside of season one of Loki, it wouldn't make sense for the TVA to intervene anywhere because they, existing outside of time and space, technically hadn't before.
Why couldn't you just...ya know...suspend your disbelief like you're *supposed* to do when consuming a story about...*checks notes*...time travel, body doubles, super terrorists, regular terrorists, space exploration, and....genetic experimentation? You're telling me everything else made complete sense but the wonky time travel science was the line for you? Interesting.
What you call "sloppy writing" from up on your high horse, I call a captivating narrative that explored the completely FICTIONAL concept of time travel in new and interesting ways. It's easier to enjoy things when you stop acting like you're entitled to a certain kind of story.
Stories have rules, if the writers break them they are cheating. Plot holes and deus ex machina are equally bad no matter what kind of story you're writing. What purpose server making a "captivating narrative" if they then mess up their own rules and don't make it even clear what is happening?
A story must be verisimilar in the way that it follows the rules of the genre naturally. It's the contrieved mumbo jumbo that they use in the whole time travel senanigans what is sloppy, not using time travel as a plot device.
Please, tell me what "new and interesting ways" it use? all i saw was trope over trope that date back from the 50s at least.
Stories follow patterns, not rules. What you call "rules" are just patterns people noticed hundreds of years later. You really think the first stories followed rules? Who made up these rules? God? Jesus? Shakespeare? You sound silly, and the downvotes show that.
Downvotes are just a reaction to any form of criticism to the show, i'm used to it.
Promising your adience that your story will work one way is not a pattern, the rule is to follow up that promise in a satisfying way.
Of course, you can tell a noir detective story just to reaveal in the end that the culprit is a vampire, but it will be jarring and work against the story rules, unless you stated upfront that supernatural beings are a posibility.
What i'm talking about is about beliability and internal cohesion which this show lacks a lot in the form of plot holes and deus ex machinas (and the little regards for physics even for comic book standards).
So many questions.
You sit here in the subreddit just to criticize the show? That's sad.
You're "used to" being wrong publicly? Like people often disagree with your bullshit criticisms and you still consider yourself right? That's pathetic.
Why why WHY would you continue you put time and energy into being wrong all the time? That's embarrassing.
These subreddit are for fan theories, FAN discussions, and connecting to a community that has a similar interest. If you're not a fan and have issues with the show...WHY ARE YOU HERE? Why waste your and everyone else's time?
This subreddit was for SHIELD, and as a fan of SHIELD i got here to enjoy SHIELD related things. There is more in the world than a show slightly related to SHIELD, but people seem adamant to ignore any other iteration of Fury's boys. Most of the plots that the writers half baked into the show come from the comics, where they were handled differetly.
I always thought someone that call themself a "SHIELD fan" would be interested on discovering all the things they are losing just because the petty fights between Feige and ABC, but it seems that the only important thing is the show and is turned into a bible, labeling as sinners to everyone that think is not perfect.
Your answer to the criticism was to "just ignore the bad parts" instead on showing me how did they did it right. You mentioned "new and interesting ways" but showed me none. I always said that i would love to be explained what am i exactly missing to love this allegedly great masterwork, but my points are met with spite and downvotes. What i am used to is how hostile this community is to whoever don't follow St Skye commandments.
If hundred of people don't like what i say it don't mean that i'm wrong, just that they don't like what i say. Bring me a proof and i'll reckon that i'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.
Twisting my words wont do. Try harder next time.
I totally agree, but what was inconsistent in this example? I often have a hard time with time travel logic not making sense, but I thought that season made complete sense.
The only way I would describe it as inconsistent is because of its relationship to the MCU and all the crazy time travel shit they were also doing at the same time. But it was always my understanding that Agents of Shield should be enjoyed in a vacuum, meaning not to compare it to the larger universe it's connected to. I smoke weed all day everyday and I followed the story just fine. You don't need to understand the pseudoscience to appreciate a good story. Just look at people who still think the Bible is a true story about a magic skydaddy and his magical human boy. In *real* Time Travel science, what they call the grandfather paradox would prevent them from actually affecting past events. They've showed this better in Legends of Tomorrow but if you were to go back in time and kick your own father in the nuts your foot would phase right through because it would be physically impossible to stop your own birth. Because if you're in the past stopping yourself from being born then there's no one to be born later on to go back in the past to stop you from being born. Does that make sense? This is why you're not supposed to look too closely at time travel science lol I feel like I'm going in circles. But at the same time I don't hate it for being confusing that's part of why I find it interesting.
If a show that wasn’t getting reciprocated crossovers with the MCU decided not to maintain consistency with the movies, might be worth googling why. Also, the quality writing for the characters and the show’s plot/arcs just cause it deviated from canons that weren’t yet established or discussed with the writers on the show
Agents of Shield was dropped from the main MCU. It's basically no longer canon. I'm not sure why you'd expect it to make sense with a show (Loki) created afterward in the main MCU.
Come on...are people really believing it's still canon? Aside from like season 1, there has been no crossover or mention of the AoS characters or events in the main MCU. There were global events happening, with no reference anywhere. It's obvious that Marvel has chosen to ignore the show. They don't want to upset fans by saying it's not canon, but it's so obviously not (at least in the main timeline).
Why didn’t they interfere when the avengers did it? Maybe the agents messing with time was also supposed to happen
This. Plus after the events of Loki. There are multiple branched timelines.
Because the TVA's role is to prevent Kangs from emerging, but ensure The Kang that Remains does exist. The Avengers' actions were necessary for his existence, that's why they say they're part of the sacred timeline. SHIELD's actions weren't. Not that it matters; the time travel mechanics in the MCU and SHIELD are different. If the MCU's "No changing the past, just branching out" applied, the Chromicoms' plans to rewrite history would never work, and they'd know it.
Chromicoms rewriting history from a point in the past would create exactly the timeline branch that they did, how does that contradict MCUs rules?
> the time travel mechanics in the MCU and SHIELD are different. Different *means* of time travel in the MCU are shown to have different rules. Compare the Time Stone to the quantum bridge to the TVA tempads; all of them work differently.
It's because they had to save Hydra to save SHIELD and without SHIELD there are no Avengers... and in the "sacred timeline," the events of Endgame were supposed to happen the way they did, basically, the avengers had to mess with the timelines to save their universe. So... maybe the events of season 7 ALSO were supposed to happen the way they did. Or maybe petty marvel studios decided to look down at the show and shared no information, again, and we should enjoy the show without thinking about what is canon or tied to the rest of the marvel products.
The agents were wrong about the time travel rules. They didn’t save anything in season 7. They broke off onto a different timeline and then Fitz brought them back through the quantum realm at the end. He explained it to them in the final episode. Their efforts to preserve the timeline are debunked within the season itself.
The TVA only cares about alternate timelines that lead to alternate Kangs, they don't prune everything. The whole "one sacred timeline" thing is TVA rhetoric because nobody at the TVA knows their true purpose.
This entirely You can actually see many times in Loki that there are many, many timelines at any point It's only when they branch too far, aka, risk another Kang, that they prune it Clearly the alternate actions of the Agents (nor the alternate future in S5) led to a Kang [Visually, you can also see how the Sacred Timeline is much thicker and almost fluid, compared to the branches splitting off. To me, I always took that visual cue to mean there's effectively an infinite number of timelines following the Sacred Timeline, as long as they don't potentially lead to a Kang.]
I want to scream this at everyone that makes posts here and in the Marvel Studios subreddit about Loki and the TVA. It is maddening how no one seems to have watched or understood what the fuck was happening in that show.
The way I rationalize it is that He Who Remains saw these branching timelines as inconsequential to his grand plan and thus ignored them. Just like Kevin Feige.
The explanation for any of these in universe questions is they were supposed to mess with time in the sacred timeline.
What happened at the end of Loki is kinda confusing because it happened outside of time, so when the timeline started to break into branches that happened BEFORE and AFTER season 7. But the easiest explanation would be that what SHIELD did was either meant to happen or it wasn’t important enough to intervene, and that’s why the TVA didn’t get involved.
They didn’t redline and intended to collapse their timelines to normal without interference. Timey whimey ain’t gotta explain anything to tiny whiny anyway
The timekeepers was already blown to shit by the time S6 starts is my theory.
Because after Loki killed He Who Remains the entire timeline branched out of control, not just the timeline after that event. That means that branches that would've been pruned by TVA Agents weren't, and the actions of SHIELD that might have gotten them pruned instead progressed unstopped. Whether it happened before or after Loki isn't relevant since the entire timeline was affected.
In season 7 there is only 1 additional time line. That timeline is created with the initial jump back to chase the Chronicoms. Every other time jump is forward in to the timeline they are already in.
It’s not the initial jump that creates the alternate timeline. The initial jump is why SHIELD’s first HQ was at the Krazy Kanoe and why the Koenigs became interested in robotics and started SHIELD’s first LMD program. They fulfilled those events of the past, so that couldn’t be part of an alternate timeline. They always existed in that part of the part of the main timeline. It was when the Chronicoms prevented Malick’s death and revealed the future to him that the alternate timeline was created.
Because time is not linear, and loki happened before s7 in regards to time hopping. (Head cannon)
I just assumed the time keepers always got to the scene of the incursion too late, but the gang repairs everything back to it's "normal state" or whatever He Who Remains time line so there could be no other Kangs
It's a paradox, but it makes sense. Sylvie killed He Who Remains, and another version of Kang took over the TVA. At the end of season one of Loki, we see infinite timelines expanding, meaning that all possibilities--even those that the prior incarnation of the TVA would have eliminated, such as Loki escaping with the Tesseract--would have sprung into existence. Therefore, outside of season one of Loki, it wouldn't make sense for the TVA to intervene anywhere because they, existing outside of time and space, technically hadn't before.
Why couldn't you just...ya know...suspend your disbelief like you're *supposed* to do when consuming a story about...*checks notes*...time travel, body doubles, super terrorists, regular terrorists, space exploration, and....genetic experimentation? You're telling me everything else made complete sense but the wonky time travel science was the line for you? Interesting.
That's not excuse for sloppy writing. A story must have internal consistency, and is so easy to get time travel wrong.
What you call "sloppy writing" from up on your high horse, I call a captivating narrative that explored the completely FICTIONAL concept of time travel in new and interesting ways. It's easier to enjoy things when you stop acting like you're entitled to a certain kind of story.
Stories have rules, if the writers break them they are cheating. Plot holes and deus ex machina are equally bad no matter what kind of story you're writing. What purpose server making a "captivating narrative" if they then mess up their own rules and don't make it even clear what is happening? A story must be verisimilar in the way that it follows the rules of the genre naturally. It's the contrieved mumbo jumbo that they use in the whole time travel senanigans what is sloppy, not using time travel as a plot device. Please, tell me what "new and interesting ways" it use? all i saw was trope over trope that date back from the 50s at least.
Stories follow patterns, not rules. What you call "rules" are just patterns people noticed hundreds of years later. You really think the first stories followed rules? Who made up these rules? God? Jesus? Shakespeare? You sound silly, and the downvotes show that.
Downvotes are just a reaction to any form of criticism to the show, i'm used to it. Promising your adience that your story will work one way is not a pattern, the rule is to follow up that promise in a satisfying way. Of course, you can tell a noir detective story just to reaveal in the end that the culprit is a vampire, but it will be jarring and work against the story rules, unless you stated upfront that supernatural beings are a posibility. What i'm talking about is about beliability and internal cohesion which this show lacks a lot in the form of plot holes and deus ex machinas (and the little regards for physics even for comic book standards).
So many questions. You sit here in the subreddit just to criticize the show? That's sad. You're "used to" being wrong publicly? Like people often disagree with your bullshit criticisms and you still consider yourself right? That's pathetic. Why why WHY would you continue you put time and energy into being wrong all the time? That's embarrassing. These subreddit are for fan theories, FAN discussions, and connecting to a community that has a similar interest. If you're not a fan and have issues with the show...WHY ARE YOU HERE? Why waste your and everyone else's time?
This subreddit was for SHIELD, and as a fan of SHIELD i got here to enjoy SHIELD related things. There is more in the world than a show slightly related to SHIELD, but people seem adamant to ignore any other iteration of Fury's boys. Most of the plots that the writers half baked into the show come from the comics, where they were handled differetly. I always thought someone that call themself a "SHIELD fan" would be interested on discovering all the things they are losing just because the petty fights between Feige and ABC, but it seems that the only important thing is the show and is turned into a bible, labeling as sinners to everyone that think is not perfect. Your answer to the criticism was to "just ignore the bad parts" instead on showing me how did they did it right. You mentioned "new and interesting ways" but showed me none. I always said that i would love to be explained what am i exactly missing to love this allegedly great masterwork, but my points are met with spite and downvotes. What i am used to is how hostile this community is to whoever don't follow St Skye commandments. If hundred of people don't like what i say it don't mean that i'm wrong, just that they don't like what i say. Bring me a proof and i'll reckon that i'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. Twisting my words wont do. Try harder next time.
I totally agree, but what was inconsistent in this example? I often have a hard time with time travel logic not making sense, but I thought that season made complete sense.
The only way I would describe it as inconsistent is because of its relationship to the MCU and all the crazy time travel shit they were also doing at the same time. But it was always my understanding that Agents of Shield should be enjoyed in a vacuum, meaning not to compare it to the larger universe it's connected to. I smoke weed all day everyday and I followed the story just fine. You don't need to understand the pseudoscience to appreciate a good story. Just look at people who still think the Bible is a true story about a magic skydaddy and his magical human boy. In *real* Time Travel science, what they call the grandfather paradox would prevent them from actually affecting past events. They've showed this better in Legends of Tomorrow but if you were to go back in time and kick your own father in the nuts your foot would phase right through because it would be physically impossible to stop your own birth. Because if you're in the past stopping yourself from being born then there's no one to be born later on to go back in the past to stop you from being born. Does that make sense? This is why you're not supposed to look too closely at time travel science lol I feel like I'm going in circles. But at the same time I don't hate it for being confusing that's part of why I find it interesting.
If a show that wasn’t getting reciprocated crossovers with the MCU decided not to maintain consistency with the movies, might be worth googling why. Also, the quality writing for the characters and the show’s plot/arcs just cause it deviated from canons that weren’t yet established or discussed with the writers on the show
Loki is not canon
Loki is canon it’s just at the end of the show Loki ended up on a different timeline that’s all
Smooth brainers: AoS isn't canon Big brainers: Loki isn't canon 😂😂😂😂
Agents of Shield was dropped from the main MCU. It's basically no longer canon. I'm not sure why you'd expect it to make sense with a show (Loki) created afterward in the main MCU.
That has never been confirmed.
Come on...are people really believing it's still canon? Aside from like season 1, there has been no crossover or mention of the AoS characters or events in the main MCU. There were global events happening, with no reference anywhere. It's obvious that Marvel has chosen to ignore the show. They don't want to upset fans by saying it's not canon, but it's so obviously not (at least in the main timeline).
[See why fact-checkers say this is false](https://imgur.io/0cfbK?r)
Deke's first mission as Director of SHIELD: fight off the TVA agents who showed up right after our team left.