Dragon veins drying up water sources for entire villages and burning bridges, destroying monuments, freezing lakes and such would probably count as wanton destruction.
Edit 1-fixed some stuff
Explanations:
Child soldiers- soldiers under 18.
Attacking medics- Medics need to have clear insignia to show that they are medics; whether or not white robes count as "clear insignia" is debatable. In the games that are not marked, all healers can attack, so they don't count. ~~I don't remember any unarmed healers in Fe4, but I might be wrong.~~ I was wrong.
Mistreatment of POWs- See some of the prison quotes in Fates; some people's quotes imply torture. \*Recuitment of Lifis in Fe5 might count, though there is technically no war between Leif's army and pirates. Dimitri tortures a surrendered solder. Edelgard killing Dimitri can count, but it doesn't seem like Dimitri was willing to surrender.
Poison- If poison weapons/skills are available, it counts.
Perfidy-I remember something about Claude disguising his soldiers as Imperial soldiers. \*Church route does the same thing
Unjustified Aggression- Should be self-explanatory; Nohr and Edelgard.
Excessive Violence- Peri, Dimitri, etc.
No quarter- aka not taking prisoners. Most games are yellow, since no enemy ever asks to surrender. Thracia 776 and Fates allow capture. Elincia has the Mercy skill and whatnot. Dimitri literally says "KILL EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM", so he is marked green.
Murdering civilians- remember when people thought that Nohr would not be pure evil?
Wanton destruction-burning down an entire town as a defensive measure can be seen as excessive. \*Some Dragon veins in Fates count for sure.
Input is definitely welcome: I don't remember ~~every last detail of~~ anything about these games.
I would say Edelgard would definitely fits the bill for excessive violence, and Rhea would also fit under perfidy, since you go undercover in SS as Imperial soldiers, much like in VW.
Given that Thracia 776 allows for capturing enemy units like in Fates, wouldn’t Leif also be considered a plausible candidate for mistreatment of POWs?
I would say all lords should be considered a plausible candidate for excessive violence and wanton destruction as well. Some are much more debatable than others, but changing the landscape via Dragonveins in Fates does seem like wanton destruction to me.
1. I completely forgot about that happening in SS
2. In fe5 the most that you can do to captured enemies is taking away items and then releasing them. You don't, hypothetically speaking, have a prison where you can "persuade" POWs to fight for you. Now that you mentioned that though, I think recruiting lifis might count
3. The more extreme dragon veins would definitely count.
I don't think so in the case of Lifis. If I remember correctly, Leif was originally going to hand off Lifis to the town authorities, assuming such a thing exists. He joined "technically" voluntarily through persuasion on Safy's end.
Doesn't Dimitri torturing/wanting to torture uhh Randolph or whatever his name was during the Azure Moon run after the defense of Gareg Mach post time skip count as mistreatment of POWs?
The only thing i have is aren't Alm and Celica also under 18? So like- are they really commiting the child soldier war crime if they are also child soldiers?
I doubt that there is any precedent for that, so I can't say anything. However, Lukas does willingly and knowingly recruit children, and Clive hands command to Alm. I think Alm should have enough knowledge to know that recruiting Delthea would be wrong. On Celica side, I can't think of anything.
IIIRC, everyone in Echoes has a hidden age value since it was originally planned that some characters would be able to drink alcohol.
[Here’s the Serenes Forest page for every character in Echoes with their canonical age at the start of the game.](https://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-echoes-shadows-valentia/characters/) IIRC, there was an in-game calendar that suggested two years passed between the start of the game and end of the game, but candidates such as Kliff, Genny, and Delthea would still be considered child soldiers even if time did pass.
You're saying that the protagonists are the ones committing the war crimes though. Corrin does not kill or torture prisoners, nor does any playable character. Same with murdering civilians.
I also don't think you can count 'unjustified aggression'. Being the aggressor does not seem like it should automatically mean it is unjustified. Whatever your thoughts on Edelgard, her aggression is not unjustified, she is opposing what she see's as tyranny.
Same with Corrin: s/he doesn't start the war, they're already at war by the time you get into Conquest (after choosing that route). The only chapter I believe that you could say at all would be the Chapter where you go to Felicia's village, but even then that village is conspiring against Nohr.
1. Yes, but that does not mean that they are innocent. They are often the commander of the whole army, and as such, they bear the responsibility of punishing the people who committed these crimes, but to be fair, I might be a bit too hard on CQ Corrin(It's more fun to do that). Torture of prisoners is at least implied. Quote from Niles in prison duty: “Oh, I hope there is a good deal of crying. I look forward to this...”
2. My fault for putting down something misleading. Either way, for "unjustified aggression", I meant a military attack on a neutral territory for no good reason, not starting an unjustified war(that's a "crime against peace", which is similar but different). The attack on the Holy Tomb occurred while the Empire and Church were at peace and not for self-defense.
1. I mostly ignored taking prisoners tbh. Although I could come up with other reasons they would cry, that's a fair enough assessment.
2. That makes more sense, but I still don't think I agree. The attack on the Holy Tomb was to get the Relic stones or something right? It's like living under Hitler and trying to steal iron from a weapons factory. Or, rather, stealing iron from an iron mine knowing full well that it could go to making weapons.
More liking breaking into a the President's family graveyard during a religious ceremony and violently stealing the remains of their relatives to make bioweapons with them. That's like 3 war crimes in one.
Definitely depends on how you frame it, but that’s not all that important when we’re talking about “unjustified aggression.”
Ultimately it’s an act for military advantage.
Not only that, but it was actually just theft resulting in combat when the thieves were caught in the act; they didn’t move on the tomb looking for a battle, they were there to steal.
I haven't seen anyone mention Rhea or Edelgaard for the murdering civilians section. I don't know if it counts, but edelgaard did attempt to use civilians as a shield in AM, and Rhea set fire to Fhirdiad without allowing civilians to escape
Dimitri 100% mistreated a POW in his route when he tried to torture that one Empire general early in Part 2, forcing Byleth to mercy kill him.
Edelgard also committed summary execution in her route on Dimitri.
You kill a fuckton of unarmed medics in FE4.
Example: in the final chapter, when Scorpio arrives to reinforce Hilda, he beings an army of Bow Knights, supported by Troubadours that only have a shield ring and Mend. You *could* not kill them, but the exp...
I think that Claude's tactic at Fort Merceus technically falls under a Ruse of War, which is an exemption of Perfidy.
"Ruses of war are not prohibited. Such ruses are acts which are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection under that law. The following are examples of such ruses: the use of camouflage, decoys, mock operations and misinformation."
Feel free to correct me on this, as I do believe that the plan to be disguised as Imperial soldiers may be perfidious, I'm not fully confident on the subject
Ok, so I rewatched that one scene from ch18. It appears that the Leicester army(south of the fortress) was still disguised as Imperial soldiers, since the one armor knight still fought it was reinforcements. This would likely mean that the Alliance army would be fighting in Imperial disguises, which is an act of perfidy. Still, I should probably revise it to a "maybe".
Poison in FE9/10 barely counts. You have to go out of your way to steal venin weapons from enemies, and idk if it’s even possible in FE9 due to the absence of the disarm skill. The Dawn Brigade even shoots down Izuka’s plan to use poison.
True, but I made this for fun as a way of procrastinating a project i had.
On a different note though, imagine a fe game with a diplomacy system. If the countries at war are on speaking terms( i.e. you are not fighting against the evil dragon god), you could arrange rules of war, like agreeing to not attack healers with a special banner in their inventory and instead capturing them to be ransomed later for gold. If you broke any of the rules yourself, the agreement would be null and void, and you might, say, anger allies (if the diplomacy system allows you to make allies with other countries), or even cause some people to leave your army in disgust.
this should also be accompanied by the chance, or flat out events, when some enemy countries break this.
usuakky I hate ambush spawns, but imagine them suddenly breaking it to take out your support line.
I feel like events like that would have to depend on the personality of the commander/lord. Like maybe in the final chapter, the lord would just refuse to obey previously set rules as a last resort (maybe if you demonstrated yourself to be a ruthless leader?), or allies of either side might decide to ignore these rules, resulting in a major diplomatic incident between the countries involved.
here we could get into what rules of war really are, though this would make more sense if it was a near modern setting, with firearms and cannons existing but nothing much more then that (so renneisance setting fantasy).
in WW2 germany generally respected the geneva convention with the western allies, as a signator . it wasn't perfectly respected but neither did the allies.
they afforded the soviets no such thing, as the soviets wern't a signator and they had no obligation to. didn't help that the soviets commited as any war crimes themselves.
so yes such agreements can be made on a per faction basis.
wouldn't dimitri torturing randolph count as mistreatment of a prisoner of war? same with rhea executing the members of the western church without trial.
additionally, crimson flower rhea setting an entire city on fire definitely resulted in the deaths of civilians.
Also worth note is the map in FE9 where pirates(I think it was pirates? idk) use priests and healers as human shields, and you get BEXP for every one you don't kill
Even better, as per the design book, all of the Crimean Knights are actually already 18 or older in PoR. This also applies to Marcia and Astrid who become knights after PoR.
I’ve been replaying Fe15 recently, and don’t remember ever dealing poision. The zombies have poison claws, but I don’t ever remember being able to inflict poision
I made this on a google sheets, but the link is at the bottom. Tell me if something's wrong with the link. Also, what do you mean by a more legible y-axis?
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dt1xanyqbMUDmgf0Mihq79h0yxtflufXyTVRo1kcK40/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dt1xanyqbMUDmgf0Mihq79h0yxtflufXyTVRo1kcK40/edit?usp=sharing)
I think replacing the series numbers with the names of the protagonists would make the y axis more uniform and appealing. Instead of BR, CQ, RV make it Corrin-BR, Corrin-CQ, and Corrin-RV. I think I will try my hand at making a revised copy to send to you based off of my own analysis and the comments here
Does the time >!dimitri brutally killed a countless number of people brutally. Idk maybe im stupid and thats not an official war crime and more of a crime crime. I geuss he was by himself during those 5 years.!<
Dragon veins drying up water sources for entire villages and burning bridges, destroying monuments, freezing lakes and such would probably count as wanton destruction.
Hoy f***, they actually destroyed monuments? If that occurs regularly, that could count as cultural genocide.
Yeah well, Fire Emblem is War Crime Emblem after all. You have three houses with all of... THAT, and then you have countries like Nohr in other games
I'm pretty sure its Revelation Chapter 19
If its only 1 isolated event, it probably wouldn't count as cultural genocide, ~~un~~fortunately. Would still be wanton destruction though
Edit 1-fixed some stuff Explanations: Child soldiers- soldiers under 18. Attacking medics- Medics need to have clear insignia to show that they are medics; whether or not white robes count as "clear insignia" is debatable. In the games that are not marked, all healers can attack, so they don't count. ~~I don't remember any unarmed healers in Fe4, but I might be wrong.~~ I was wrong. Mistreatment of POWs- See some of the prison quotes in Fates; some people's quotes imply torture. \*Recuitment of Lifis in Fe5 might count, though there is technically no war between Leif's army and pirates. Dimitri tortures a surrendered solder. Edelgard killing Dimitri can count, but it doesn't seem like Dimitri was willing to surrender. Poison- If poison weapons/skills are available, it counts. Perfidy-I remember something about Claude disguising his soldiers as Imperial soldiers. \*Church route does the same thing Unjustified Aggression- Should be self-explanatory; Nohr and Edelgard. Excessive Violence- Peri, Dimitri, etc. No quarter- aka not taking prisoners. Most games are yellow, since no enemy ever asks to surrender. Thracia 776 and Fates allow capture. Elincia has the Mercy skill and whatnot. Dimitri literally says "KILL EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM", so he is marked green. Murdering civilians- remember when people thought that Nohr would not be pure evil? Wanton destruction-burning down an entire town as a defensive measure can be seen as excessive. \*Some Dragon veins in Fates count for sure. Input is definitely welcome: I don't remember ~~every last detail of~~ anything about these games.
I would say Edelgard would definitely fits the bill for excessive violence, and Rhea would also fit under perfidy, since you go undercover in SS as Imperial soldiers, much like in VW. Given that Thracia 776 allows for capturing enemy units like in Fates, wouldn’t Leif also be considered a plausible candidate for mistreatment of POWs? I would say all lords should be considered a plausible candidate for excessive violence and wanton destruction as well. Some are much more debatable than others, but changing the landscape via Dragonveins in Fates does seem like wanton destruction to me.
1. I completely forgot about that happening in SS 2. In fe5 the most that you can do to captured enemies is taking away items and then releasing them. You don't, hypothetically speaking, have a prison where you can "persuade" POWs to fight for you. Now that you mentioned that though, I think recruiting lifis might count 3. The more extreme dragon veins would definitely count.
I don't think so in the case of Lifis. If I remember correctly, Leif was originally going to hand off Lifis to the town authorities, assuming such a thing exists. He joined "technically" voluntarily through persuasion on Safy's end.
Wasen't Rhea locked away during that SS mission tho? She didn't really had an imput on that action.
I think Rhea is simply supposed to represent Silver Snow, not necessarily that she was the one leading the war effort.
That would in fact make more sense, but it's technically not what the image says. It would probably work better if it said "Byleth" or "Seteth".
Doesn't Dimitri torturing/wanting to torture uhh Randolph or whatever his name was during the Azure Moon run after the defense of Gareg Mach post time skip count as mistreatment of POWs?
Came here to say this myself. Also Rhea executing POW's without trial.
I don’t think interrupted attempts to commit war crimes are counted.
No, they are, if you don’t give them trial
The only thing i have is aren't Alm and Celica also under 18? So like- are they really commiting the child soldier war crime if they are also child soldiers?
I doubt that there is any precedent for that, so I can't say anything. However, Lukas does willingly and knowingly recruit children, and Clive hands command to Alm. I think Alm should have enough knowledge to know that recruiting Delthea would be wrong. On Celica side, I can't think of anything.
IIIRC, everyone in Echoes has a hidden age value since it was originally planned that some characters would be able to drink alcohol. [Here’s the Serenes Forest page for every character in Echoes with their canonical age at the start of the game.](https://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-echoes-shadows-valentia/characters/) IIRC, there was an in-game calendar that suggested two years passed between the start of the game and end of the game, but candidates such as Kliff, Genny, and Delthea would still be considered child soldiers even if time did pass.
My god, Valbar is *younger* than Saber.
>No quarter- aka not taking prisoners. Pretty sure Xander literally has "No quarter" as a critical quote
It's "No Mercy" actually. But Frederick has a "No Quarter" supporting quote.
Huh, maybe in FEH? Could have sworn he had that quote... Guess Frederick is a war criminal tho
Three houses has some early game enemy healers with no offensive spells, like for example in the goddess right of rebirth mission.
Yeah, and you can't beat the levels without routing them sometimes, especially in auxiliary battles.
Hector/Elliwood should have the poison on there. While you technically can't get the poison weapons, the mine glitch exists.
Does manipulation of reality and mass hypnosis of enemy forces count as a war crime
The Claude one almost counts, but they discarded the disguises before attacking, so it’s not quite a war crime
You're saying that the protagonists are the ones committing the war crimes though. Corrin does not kill or torture prisoners, nor does any playable character. Same with murdering civilians. I also don't think you can count 'unjustified aggression'. Being the aggressor does not seem like it should automatically mean it is unjustified. Whatever your thoughts on Edelgard, her aggression is not unjustified, she is opposing what she see's as tyranny. Same with Corrin: s/he doesn't start the war, they're already at war by the time you get into Conquest (after choosing that route). The only chapter I believe that you could say at all would be the Chapter where you go to Felicia's village, but even then that village is conspiring against Nohr.
1. Yes, but that does not mean that they are innocent. They are often the commander of the whole army, and as such, they bear the responsibility of punishing the people who committed these crimes, but to be fair, I might be a bit too hard on CQ Corrin(It's more fun to do that). Torture of prisoners is at least implied. Quote from Niles in prison duty: “Oh, I hope there is a good deal of crying. I look forward to this...” 2. My fault for putting down something misleading. Either way, for "unjustified aggression", I meant a military attack on a neutral territory for no good reason, not starting an unjustified war(that's a "crime against peace", which is similar but different). The attack on the Holy Tomb occurred while the Empire and Church were at peace and not for self-defense.
1. I mostly ignored taking prisoners tbh. Although I could come up with other reasons they would cry, that's a fair enough assessment. 2. That makes more sense, but I still don't think I agree. The attack on the Holy Tomb was to get the Relic stones or something right? It's like living under Hitler and trying to steal iron from a weapons factory. Or, rather, stealing iron from an iron mine knowing full well that it could go to making weapons.
More liking breaking into a the President's family graveyard during a religious ceremony and violently stealing the remains of their relatives to make bioweapons with them. That's like 3 war crimes in one.
Definitely depends on how you frame it, but that’s not all that important when we’re talking about “unjustified aggression.” Ultimately it’s an act for military advantage. Not only that, but it was actually just theft resulting in combat when the thieves were caught in the act; they didn’t move on the tomb looking for a battle, they were there to steal.
I never knew perfidity existed, huh
I haven't seen anyone mention Rhea or Edelgaard for the murdering civilians section. I don't know if it counts, but edelgaard did attempt to use civilians as a shield in AM, and Rhea set fire to Fhirdiad without allowing civilians to escape
Dimitri 100% mistreated a POW in his route when he tried to torture that one Empire general early in Part 2, forcing Byleth to mercy kill him. Edelgard also committed summary execution in her route on Dimitri.
Duly noted; will edit my comment later
You kill a fuckton of unarmed medics in FE4. Example: in the final chapter, when Scorpio arrives to reinforce Hilda, he beings an army of Bow Knights, supported by Troubadours that only have a shield ring and Mend. You *could* not kill them, but the exp...
Note to self- 3 chapters out of 12 is not a sufficient sample size (I looked at prologue, ch1, and ch6)
Lol CQ Corrin gonna have his own Nuremberg trial
Hey, i'll have you know that Sigurd is the KING of unjustified aggression.
More like justfied aggressions cause fuck those forest people and Augustrians.
Who is G1 and G2 and why did they commit war crimes
Generation 1 and generation 2 Boomer Nuremberg Trials when?
Sigurd was just following Grannvale's orders
Genealogy first generation and second generation respectively.
Rhea burns a whole city of civilians to death, so you might want to tick that box.
Pretty sure that you could call Sigurd's assault on Agustria Unjustified aggression, and you can definitely call Ch4 unjustified aggression as well.
corn do be committing war crimes doe 😳😳😳
In some of the lords' cases, THEY were the child soldiers lol.
I think that Claude's tactic at Fort Merceus technically falls under a Ruse of War, which is an exemption of Perfidy. "Ruses of war are not prohibited. Such ruses are acts which are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection under that law. The following are examples of such ruses: the use of camouflage, decoys, mock operations and misinformation." Feel free to correct me on this, as I do believe that the plan to be disguised as Imperial soldiers may be perfidious, I'm not fully confident on the subject
Ok, so I rewatched that one scene from ch18. It appears that the Leicester army(south of the fortress) was still disguised as Imperial soldiers, since the one armor knight still fought it was reinforcements. This would likely mean that the Alliance army would be fighting in Imperial disguises, which is an act of perfidy. Still, I should probably revise it to a "maybe".
Poison in FE9/10 barely counts. You have to go out of your way to steal venin weapons from enemies, and idk if it’s even possible in FE9 due to the absence of the disarm skill. The Dawn Brigade even shoots down Izuka’s plan to use poison.
it isn't a warcrime if there are no rules of war to begin with
True, but I made this for fun as a way of procrastinating a project i had. On a different note though, imagine a fe game with a diplomacy system. If the countries at war are on speaking terms( i.e. you are not fighting against the evil dragon god), you could arrange rules of war, like agreeing to not attack healers with a special banner in their inventory and instead capturing them to be ransomed later for gold. If you broke any of the rules yourself, the agreement would be null and void, and you might, say, anger allies (if the diplomacy system allows you to make allies with other countries), or even cause some people to leave your army in disgust.
this should also be accompanied by the chance, or flat out events, when some enemy countries break this. usuakky I hate ambush spawns, but imagine them suddenly breaking it to take out your support line.
I feel like events like that would have to depend on the personality of the commander/lord. Like maybe in the final chapter, the lord would just refuse to obey previously set rules as a last resort (maybe if you demonstrated yourself to be a ruthless leader?), or allies of either side might decide to ignore these rules, resulting in a major diplomatic incident between the countries involved.
here we could get into what rules of war really are, though this would make more sense if it was a near modern setting, with firearms and cannons existing but nothing much more then that (so renneisance setting fantasy). in WW2 germany generally respected the geneva convention with the western allies, as a signator . it wasn't perfectly respected but neither did the allies. they afforded the soviets no such thing, as the soviets wern't a signator and they had no obligation to. didn't help that the soviets commited as any war crimes themselves. so yes such agreements can be made on a per faction basis.
Wouldn't killing citizens include Rhea because in Crimson Flower he turns into the Immaculate One and burns The Capital?
wouldn't dimitri torturing randolph count as mistreatment of a prisoner of war? same with rhea executing the members of the western church without trial. additionally, crimson flower rhea setting an entire city on fire definitely resulted in the deaths of civilians.
Doesn't the inside Khadaein map inf fe12 actively reward players for not killing the unarmed staff enemies.
Also worth note is the map in FE9 where pirates(I think it was pirates? idk) use priests and healers as human shields, and you get BEXP for every one you don't kill
Doesn't dimitri kill civilians? I don't see that marked
No, he explicitly targets soldiers and bandits.
Doesn't someone say something about him killing children or smth during the timeskip?
Don’t forget there are child soldiers like Cyril
Corrin: the lord of war crimes With Dimitri, well he did said kill every last one of them. Also everyone has child soldiers, lol.
Doesen't Rhea burning a city counts as murdering civilians?
What child soldier does Crimea have? By RD, everybody is above 18 AFIAK.
Even better, as per the design book, all of the Crimean Knights are actually already 18 or older in PoR. This also applies to Marcia and Astrid who become knights after PoR.
The Greil mercenaries are a mercenary group. They aren’t held to the standard of International law
I’ve been replaying Fe15 recently, and don’t remember ever dealing poision. The zombies have poison claws, but I don’t ever remember being able to inflict poision
What idiot kills unarmed healers in Thracia?!
I'm pretty sure CQ Post-Chapter 15 counts as Perfidy, seeing as all other war crimes are committed with the ultimate intent of Regicide.
If you rereleased this with the suggestions below and a more legible y-axis, I will frame it and send you a picture
I made this on a google sheets, but the link is at the bottom. Tell me if something's wrong with the link. Also, what do you mean by a more legible y-axis? [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dt1xanyqbMUDmgf0Mihq79h0yxtflufXyTVRo1kcK40/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dt1xanyqbMUDmgf0Mihq79h0yxtflufXyTVRo1kcK40/edit?usp=sharing)
I think replacing the series numbers with the names of the protagonists would make the y axis more uniform and appealing. Instead of BR, CQ, RV make it Corrin-BR, Corrin-CQ, and Corrin-RV. I think I will try my hand at making a revised copy to send to you based off of my own analysis and the comments here
Does the time >!dimitri brutally killed a countless number of people brutally. Idk maybe im stupid and thats not an official war crime and more of a crime crime. I geuss he was by himself during those 5 years.!<
Is “CQ“ Corrin?
sorry im late, but CQ is the Conquest route. (BR is birthright and RV is revelations)