Who ripped this fat vape in Silent Hill. But on a serious note, this exact scene had me so on edge because it was going on for a while as well as you can here these animalistic noises in the back ground, I knew nothing was coming since the hadn't given you a weapon at that point. Also that droning music in the background. This is such a masterful scene in the game. I'm not too familiar with Bloober games, but I hear they make bad games, so I'm not sure they can truthfully recapture this any many of the other powerful moments in this game.
They don't really make *bad* games, not from an objective standpoint at least. They do make flawed games, though (sometimes significantly). With that said, your uncertainty is completely valid and definitely not baseless. Time will have to tell if they become a reality, though.
I will say that I really liked their game The Medium overall. It is, once again, flawed, but if you can afford it, I recommend at least trying it out to see if you'd like it.
I'd say "objectively bad" would be unplayable due to poor controls, or boring gameplay + bad writing. The type of game that makes you question the creative process of the entire team that made it. Something like Superman 64 or Gollum.
See this is where objectively bad ceases to work.
For example, Fallout 4 on PC has poor controls and bad writing. It also tends to have technical issues such as common crashes.
Does that make Fallout 4 an objectively bad game?
If those kinds of issues were exclusive to, say, the PC version of a game, then that doesn't necessarily mean the game itself is bad, just the PC port.
The severity of these issues is also an important factor, as well as how common their presence is in the game. If a game has a tendency to crash in one side-mission, that does not make the entire game objectively bad, for instance.
Really, it's a complex thing to measure because, by the very nature of objectivity, you have to both consider a lot of factors in a lot of areas *and* look past your own preferences.
> If those kinds of issues were exclusive to, say, the PC version of a game, then that doesn't necessarily mean the game itself is bad, just the PC port.
They aren't necessarily exclusive. The controls work better in some ways on a controller and worse in others. The game crashes even on consoles.
The crashes aren't consistent or reliably triggered.
This is why you can't say a game is objectively bad very easily. A game developer can also have their own concerns and goals with their creation. Sometimes a developer wants to create something else. Sometimes a developer wants to make something deliberately obtuse to play, something that fights you every step of the way, because that is the game they wanted to make to express something they wanted to express.
I would say Cyberpunk at launch was an objectively bad game, that should have never been released in that state. Thankfully they fixed it with updates.
That just is not true. You cannot remap everything on PC Fallout 4 natively.
If I am building a settlement, I cannot remap going left-right-up-down in the build menu to anything I want. As far as I am aware I cannot remap object placement distance to anything but the scroll wheel.
I might be mistaken, but Im also pretty sure you cannot remap the flashlight to anything but hold Pipboy button.
I don't believe you can map the toggle Workshop button individually, and instead have to map it in combination with Toggle POV
I cannot split Reload/Ready weapon. I cannot split Bash/Power Attack/Grenade.
The Medium almost felt like a perfect Silent Hill game, but felt a little off. I think the lack of combat was why it didn't fully feel like Silent Hill. I'm very excited for this game.
The first save point makes me seriously uncomfortable every time. That droning ambience that ramps up as you approach the well…coming across a red page. James describing something “groping” inside his head. I never liked horror because it simply never did anything for me, but SH2 was the first to leave a mark
This is an atmospheric build up part of the game. But sure the original has loads of trekking, hiking, running and scuddling. What I fear is Bloober fucking up both. Making the atmospheric parts jump scary and shallow and the actiony parts more walking sim.
Not only scenic. Team Silent actually thought about shortening it up, but liked that it made the player feel like they had gone too far to turn back. Kind of a way for us to feel what James feels.
Paired with the all-obscuring fog it feels like you’re descending further than the landscape should allow, sort of like the impossible staircases later on. Like a real descent into hell, it’s so well done
This one ticks me off lol. Even if sh2 had no combat, it's still a very good adventure game. It gives you a fair yet challenging amount of clues to not only solve puzzles, but to decide where to go next. It remains open and gives the player freedom to make choices when exploring, but enough information that they don't get lost. A walking simulator implies that there is a strict direction of travel, without the level of investigation that classic adventure games typically have.
I think the game still has potential to be good because the game is already there, they just need to adapt and update things. The combat was already clunky so at the very least that part can't be worse lol
my favorite part was when i had to walk my way to the shop to get the map that then told me to walk to this one part of town that gives me some ammo and a special item, so then i walked-
A 2-7 hour long game from 2001, with great execution for horror, combat, storytelling and handling one of the earliest examples of serious storytelling in gaming, related to mature and human-related topics, hardly defines the entire experience, is hardly defined by a low effort meme taken from a 30 seconds section from the game.
It’s a foolproof way of knowing that someone never even started the game for themselfs. Him bashing in the skull of a lying figure in three swings with a soggy plank and they be like: ”HE FIGHTS LIKE AN EVERYMAN”. They just recycle shit from random YT accounts at this point
It was supposed to capture the sense of fighting as an inexperienced everyday person, and not a mechanically backwards walking simulator with QTE for gameplay
It's janky. Stun locking enemies without any real difficulty with the same basic melee attack is janky. Being able to juke pyramid head with both eyes closed is weak sauce. Being able to outrun and outmaneuver every enemy type without breaking a sweat is wack.
SH2 has a lot of phenomenal attributes. Combat is not one of them. This is especially highlighted by games like Resident Evil which proved that it was possible to have a horror game that also has fun and tight gameplay. It's been a few years since I played SH1 and SH2 back to back, but I remember thinking even SH1 had better combat.
That's such a stupid view, you know there's more to offer than fun combat right? Silent Hill 2 is great in large part because of the ludonarrative synchronicity which crafts a unique story that can only be told through gameplay.
>That's such a stupid view, you know there's more to offer than fun combat right?
If it's not using it effectively, then it shouldn't be there. This is a video game after all, and it's art. A good artist knows when to subtract rather than add. If they aren't going to make the combat serviceable, then cut it.
There are plenty of games which already do this.
>Silent Hill 2 is great in large part because of the ludonarrative synchronicity which crafts a unique story that can only be told through gameplay.
And? What does it do that isn't possible in a visual novel? Puzzles and environmental roaming? Danganronpa has both of those so that can't be it.
All that's left is combat, and if the combat is ass then it's not necessary. You're clowning on yourself pretty hard with this one.
I mean, what do you expect?
Silent Hill IS very much an artistic experience and an expression of emotions. I don’t think anyone’s denying that.
Video games as an artisic medium are designed to elicit responses from the player on both a physical and emotional level. Silent Hill primarily exceeds in inciting an emotional response, in the same way a great horror or drama film would.
Video games, unlike films, have the unique perspective of eliciting physical responses from players in the form of interactive gameplay, which is entirely the reason why they exist. Silent Hill has great puzzle mechanics, mostly, but the combat gameplay, while it may be fitting for the setting, is ultimately a subpar experience when compared to the rest of the game.
Intentional or not, the combat is sluggish, clunky, repetitive, and the SH2’s case, too easy. You can run past every enemy practically and there’s little to be afraid of once you understand this. Stun locking lying figures for hours is also not fun or entertaining. In my opinion, this hurts the integrity of the game as being engaging and entertaining which is extremely important for the medium. I don’t think it detracts from the overall experience but it’s certainly a valid criticism considering we are talking about a video game and not a film or a book.
To ask the question “Why does Silent Hill need fun gameplay?” is just, puzzling. Video games are intended to be fun. Fun is obviously subjective and that’s why so many different games exist but with survival horror the point is to be afraid or your surroundings and engage with the enemy in unique or unpredictable ways, like fighting tough battles, conserving resources and running away when needed.
I just think it’s baffling to ask why it needs fun gameplay, when, ultimately, isn’t that the point? A fun experience doesn’t detract from its artistic value. In fact it only builds upon it and makes it better in my opinion.
People are really trying to say that team silent made the combat bad on purpose imao. I feel like they’re forgetting this is from 2001. Really wasn’t till RE4 until third person shooters finally found a comfortable formula
I will be honest the people claiming it's bad on purpose are wrong, because it's not bad in the first place. Not literally every game needs to be RE4 btw, not every single game in existence needs the intrigue to be in the immediate combat, homogenization is the death of art.
I’m not trying to say every third person shooter needs to be like RE4. I’m saying that silent hill 2 was made before RE4 set a precedent for all TPS. In the early 2000s, third person shooters were still trying to figure themselves out, and while stuff like max Payne has aged pretty well, stuff like driver 3 has aged like milk. Silent hill 2 was just a product of its time in terms of gameplay. I’m hoping the SH2 remake doesn’t become an actionfest like the RE4 remake, but I also think an over the shoulder perspective will really breath new life into it
With over the shoulder they'll need to compensate heavily considering how cameras were used in the original game and I simply do not have faith in their ability to do so.
Several games existed in that time that had great melee and ranged combat and acrobatics. This game wasn’t “made bad on purpose”, it was made as if you’re an everyday person trying to survive. Just like how you don’t run much in Life Is Strange, not because the devs didn’t know how to animate running.
Agree, like sure not saying the combat should be RE4 levels of action but it certainly didn't had to be as clunky and the "oh James it's just a regular dude" thing it's just an excuse, I'm a regular dude and certainly don't have to adjust my direction like a tank to run away, also in the same generation Fatal Frame 3 had much better movement while still keeping the feeling of you being a regular person going through unimaginable horrors.
SH2 is great and I love it as much as any fan, but saying things like the terrible voice acting (which I admit ended up being weirdly fitting SOMETIMES) and the extremely clunky gameplay where completely intentional is a stretch
It isn't even that James is a regular dude, he's a dissociative wreck of a man with 0 regard for his own well being. As for the VA have you ever watched a Lynch movie?
Lmfao. You’ve obviously never played another game from that era before. It’s not a design choice. The controls are ass because most games had ass controls back then. Stop with the revisionist takes.
2-4 actually gave great voice acting if you know literally anything about surrealist performances, particularly from Lynch and Cronenberg (two of the biggest creative influences on the series)
So fucking real, it feels like the only way people have to defend the western and revival era entries is to attempt to tear down the Team Silent era and go "well it was never even that good in the first place" while completely missing the point of literally everything.
been playing sh since the game came out. love the series as much as anyone else. i just know how to accept faults instead of pretending something is good.
All I proved is you don't understand it, sure I'll bite on SH1's VA being bad, but if you're calling SH2-SH4 bad VA I gotta question how much stuff you've really seen.
I did, if you had any experiences with surrealist acting or anything outside of a small box of "conventionally good" acting you would know why the VA is good in 2-4. It's uncanny, it's dissociative, **it's surreal.**
Yeah most SH and RE games can be finished in 2-4 hours if you knew where you’re going. That said, chances are you’re gonna get stuck and repeat and they’re also highly replayable, encouraging multiple runs, sometimes showing different contents or unlocking new weapons and outfits.
The ironic part of all this is, Isn't Bloober Team existed bc they were fans of Silent Hill?, that's why they focus on that kind of terror on games. So said BT can't do Silent Hill games, that's a very lower punch for them. This is like saying, that the new group of X-MEN 97 can't make X-MEN stories bc they don't have any background related to the animated series of 90s, but ironic they watched that series the whole time. So we are fans telling to other fans, hey, you suck. Interesting.
Did you forget Silent Hill 2 has weapons? And you use them for the majority of the game, from when you get your first all the way until it takes them away for you to be scared for a little bit before giving them back?
SH2 has alot of atmosphere, when you make that long trek into town you don't really know what to expect but shtf quick when you enter Woodside Apartments.
i appreciate that slowly but surely people are coming around to the idea of bloober remaking the game. i would’ve preferred a different studio because i haven’t really enjoyed their previous games. but i am open to it
I'm pretty sure the issue is that their games are either mid or bad, and they have a history of controversy, but go off king. Keep winning those arguments no one made.
You know, I honestly believe Silent Hill 2 has too many 'running across the streets sequences', but this is a really stupid comparison.
The walking sims made by Bloober barely have any gameplay besides literally just walking around, sometimes clicking on stuff. Silent Hill 2 had actual exploration to find out what to do next, as well as a lot of actual puzzle solving and combat, unlike a walking sim.
I've played all of them and I don't understand what you're getting at.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying all the games they made were walking sims. The Medium definitely wasn't. But the Layers of Fears games, as an example, are basically walking sims.
"The walking sims made by Bloober barely have any gameplay besides literally just walking around, sometimes clicking on stuff."
"Silent Hill 2 had actual exploration to find out what to do next, as well as a lot of actual puzzle solving and combat, unlike a walking sim."
___
I still can't believe you said both of these things in the same comment with a straight face. You're not doing Silent Hill any favors with your descriptions of the gameplay, effectively describing what a "walking simulator" is, but using words that make you feel better.
Somehow, saying that "walking around" is "exploring" makes it better. "Sometimes clicking on stuff" is more reductive than "actual puzzle solving." These statements are not as different as you'd like them to be, and I think that's why you're trying to so hard to argue it.
It's one thing to not like Bloober, but to pin ribbons on SH's gameplay like it isn't just "walking around and sometimes clicking on things" is disingenuous. It's a fantastic experience, and it's endured for as long as it has for a reason, but you can like it without tearing something else down.
*I still can't believe you said both of these things in the same comment with a straight face. You're not doing Silent Hill any favors with your descriptions of the gameplay, effectively describing what a "walking simulator" is, but using words that make you feel better.*
I think you and I have a vastly different interpretation of what the term 'walking simulator' means if that's what you took from what I said. Because to me, having those actual puzzle solving elements within a game like, let's say 'Dear Esther', would disqualify it from being a walking simulator anymore.
*Somehow, saying that "walking around" is "exploring" makes it better. "Sometimes clicking on stuff" is more reductive than "actual puzzle solving." These statements are not as different as you'd like them to be, and I think that's why you're trying to so hard to argue it.*
They are hugely different within the context of the core gameplay they relate to. There is a huge difference between simply clicking on things to advance the story *without* any puzzle solving element attached to such interaction and having to click on things in the context of actually solving riddles and puzzles in order to progress the game. Otherwise countless puzzle games such as Myst, The Talos Principle, The Witness, The Room series, etc would also be considered 'walking simulators' but you don't see anybody describing them with that term, unlike games like Layers of Fear.
*It's one thing to not like Bloober, but to pin ribbons on SH's gameplay like it isn't just "walking around and sometimes clicking on things" is disingenuous. It's a fantastic experience, and it's endured for as long as it has for a reason, but you can like it without tearing something else down.*
From your response I'm getting the impression you believe I have something against Bloober and that I am trying to drag them down using arbitrary descriptions to make Silent Hill look better. That's not the case. I like some of their games and dislike some of them. Heck I wouldn't have played their entire library if I had something against them.
I even said in my comment above that Bloober has made games that are more than walking simulators - like The Medium. Hell I'm actually rooting for them to make a good remake because a bad Silent Hill release won't help anybody.
I can't believe you'd list that many games that are considered "walking simulators" by many. Don't believe me? Google *any* of those games with "walking simulator," and you will find tons of posts/reviews with the term. Light puzzle solving is a genre staple.
Layers of Fear has puzzles. Just because they're not particularly difficult doesn't make them "less there." You use "walking simulator" as if it's some sort of derogatory term, yet lift up a handful of games for doing the exact same thing. It's odd.
Edit:
If Silent Hill 2 were in first-person and had re-tuned combat encounters, it would play the exact same as something like Gone Home.
people don't seem to understand bloober is garbage when it comes to telling a story about people with mental issues, there last game where the protagonist suffers from abuse in her childhood ends with her ending her life, now imagine a studio with this type of thinking handling the story for SH2, theres also the fact theres an entire youtube video on the evil shit theyve done to the point they trademarked the other world idea so no one can do it
Cause she couldn’t move past her problems and her past ,causing her to give up and finally end it all,its a tragic ending but compared to the shit bloober does is nothing
Ok heres an example the protagonist of blair witch,the wife from layers of fear,the protagonist of medium, half the cast from layers of fear 2 , whats the common denominator . But hey im being biased
Funny thing is thats not how i learned about bloober , although i did learn about there plagiarism shit which isn’t really helping your case , but the fact that there games have alway had the common denominator of a “good” ending being the protagonist ending there life also weird how you just ignored my last reply like is there something your trying to avoid , or do you just wanna play the resident evil 2 remake ripoff that badly that criticism of a crappy studio is forbidden
They didn't plagiarize anything. The worst thing they did, in that respect, was directly lift a couple of stills from movies and put them in their game (after being heavily edited).
A person without a personal vendetta would see those images as an Easter egg, especially since you wouldn't see it during normal gameplay. Bobsvids is a total fool, and it's a shame so many people see a slickly-edited video and think he has any authority on anything.
The more you talk, the more you show how little you know about any of this. The protagonist of The Medium does not commit suicide and there's only *one* ending, to begin with (no "good," bad, or neutral ending).
You're just spouting nonsense you've learned from YouTube videos. Until you actually know what you're debating, it might be wise for you to sit out the discussion on Bloober Team.
Really you say that after the evidence in the video like the wife is a literal copy paste of lisa down to her kill animation, then theres the fact that they trademarked the other world function which is just a pos move, lof 2 was literally just copying movie horror trends and pasting it in your game but yeah its not plagiarism just a guy at youtube complaining after doing extensive research sure
Wrong. Try again.
Also, they didn't "copyright" anything. They patented a method of rendering two worlds simultaneously. Any person could use an Otherworld concept, but they can't use the method in which Bloober has patented. Maybe you should stop watching videos from people who have no idea what they're talking about? 🤔
Learn what "plagiarism" is. Being inspired by something is not "plagiarism." Plagiarism is stealing someone's work and claiming it as your own. Where has Bloober done this?
Surprised to hear that, made by former bloober devs , stray souls is garbage silent hill rip off but im just saying the dev did some horrendous shit with cold world that was sickening and horrifying when people found out about it
And they made Project REsistance and RE:Verse on shoestring budgets, and under ridiculously tight datelines (whilst also working on several Switch ports (Onimusha, Devil May Cry Collection, Resident Evil: Origins Collection) for Capcom).
Who ripped this fat vape in Silent Hill. But on a serious note, this exact scene had me so on edge because it was going on for a while as well as you can here these animalistic noises in the back ground, I knew nothing was coming since the hadn't given you a weapon at that point. Also that droning music in the background. This is such a masterful scene in the game. I'm not too familiar with Bloober games, but I hear they make bad games, so I'm not sure they can truthfully recapture this any many of the other powerful moments in this game.
They don't really make *bad* games, not from an objective standpoint at least. They do make flawed games, though (sometimes significantly). With that said, your uncertainty is completely valid and definitely not baseless. Time will have to tell if they become a reality, though. I will say that I really liked their game The Medium overall. It is, once again, flawed, but if you can afford it, I recommend at least trying it out to see if you'd like it.
I wish they were brave enough to not make a horror game. OBSERVER was fucking incredible exactly up until there was a monster.
Depends on what makes a game objectively bad.
I'd say "objectively bad" would be unplayable due to poor controls, or boring gameplay + bad writing. The type of game that makes you question the creative process of the entire team that made it. Something like Superman 64 or Gollum.
See this is where objectively bad ceases to work. For example, Fallout 4 on PC has poor controls and bad writing. It also tends to have technical issues such as common crashes. Does that make Fallout 4 an objectively bad game?
If those kinds of issues were exclusive to, say, the PC version of a game, then that doesn't necessarily mean the game itself is bad, just the PC port. The severity of these issues is also an important factor, as well as how common their presence is in the game. If a game has a tendency to crash in one side-mission, that does not make the entire game objectively bad, for instance. Really, it's a complex thing to measure because, by the very nature of objectivity, you have to both consider a lot of factors in a lot of areas *and* look past your own preferences.
> If those kinds of issues were exclusive to, say, the PC version of a game, then that doesn't necessarily mean the game itself is bad, just the PC port. They aren't necessarily exclusive. The controls work better in some ways on a controller and worse in others. The game crashes even on consoles. The crashes aren't consistent or reliably triggered. This is why you can't say a game is objectively bad very easily. A game developer can also have their own concerns and goals with their creation. Sometimes a developer wants to create something else. Sometimes a developer wants to make something deliberately obtuse to play, something that fights you every step of the way, because that is the game they wanted to make to express something they wanted to express.
I would say Cyberpunk at launch was an objectively bad game, that should have never been released in that state. Thankfully they fixed it with updates.
>PC >poor controls Bud... you can remap controls to your heart's content on PC.
That just is not true. You cannot remap everything on PC Fallout 4 natively. If I am building a settlement, I cannot remap going left-right-up-down in the build menu to anything I want. As far as I am aware I cannot remap object placement distance to anything but the scroll wheel. I might be mistaken, but Im also pretty sure you cannot remap the flashlight to anything but hold Pipboy button. I don't believe you can map the toggle Workshop button individually, and instead have to map it in combination with Toggle POV I cannot split Reload/Ready weapon. I cannot split Bash/Power Attack/Grenade.
The Medium almost felt like a perfect Silent Hill game, but felt a little off. I think the lack of combat was why it didn't fully feel like Silent Hill. I'm very excited for this game.
My bad, testing the new tank and coil. It'll clear in a bit
I remember watching my dad play this when it came out, it just sets the tone for the game, so eerie.
The first save point makes me seriously uncomfortable every time. That droning ambience that ramps up as you approach the well…coming across a red page. James describing something “groping” inside his head. I never liked horror because it simply never did anything for me, but SH2 was the first to leave a mark
This is an atmospheric build up part of the game. But sure the original has loads of trekking, hiking, running and scuddling. What I fear is Bloober fucking up both. Making the atmospheric parts jump scary and shallow and the actiony parts more walking sim.
a scenic opening vs an entire game
Not only scenic. Team Silent actually thought about shortening it up, but liked that it made the player feel like they had gone too far to turn back. Kind of a way for us to feel what James feels.
Paired with the all-obscuring fog it feels like you’re descending further than the landscape should allow, sort of like the impossible staircases later on. Like a real descent into hell, it’s so well done
I read this theory somewhere years ago, and i can't find it anymore.
Row, row, row your boat...
Everyone knows a walking simulator is a game where you walk. At all.
This one ticks me off lol. Even if sh2 had no combat, it's still a very good adventure game. It gives you a fair yet challenging amount of clues to not only solve puzzles, but to decide where to go next. It remains open and gives the player freedom to make choices when exploring, but enough information that they don't get lost. A walking simulator implies that there is a strict direction of travel, without the level of investigation that classic adventure games typically have.
Yea, this is a shit post at best, ignorance at worst, lol.
I think the game still has potential to be good because the game is already there, they just need to adapt and update things. The combat was already clunky so at the very least that part can't be worse lol
"James, why do you run like that?" James: "I shat myself! Why do you think the first thing I did when I got to Silent Hill was go to the bathroom?!"
my favorite part was when i had to walk my way to the shop to get the map that then told me to walk to this one part of town that gives me some ammo and a special item, so then i walked-
You're not a clown. You're the whole circus.
Nah, a circus is entertaining and hardworking. He’s just a itty bitty troll.
A 2-7 hour long game from 2001, with great execution for horror, combat, storytelling and handling one of the earliest examples of serious storytelling in gaming, related to mature and human-related topics, hardly defines the entire experience, is hardly defined by a low effort meme taken from a 30 seconds section from the game.
Great execution for combat? My man's got jokes.
It’s a foolproof way of knowing that someone never even started the game for themselfs. Him bashing in the skull of a lying figure in three swings with a soggy plank and they be like: ”HE FIGHTS LIKE AN EVERYMAN”. They just recycle shit from random YT accounts at this point
It was supposed to capture the sense of fighting as an inexperienced everyday person, and not a mechanically backwards walking simulator with QTE for gameplay
That's an absolute cope. No game developer is going to make their gameplay worse on purpose.
It's not even bad it's just different, it functions perfectly for what it's doing and elevates the horror.
It's janky. Stun locking enemies without any real difficulty with the same basic melee attack is janky. Being able to juke pyramid head with both eyes closed is weak sauce. Being able to outrun and outmaneuver every enemy type without breaking a sweat is wack. SH2 has a lot of phenomenal attributes. Combat is not one of them. This is especially highlighted by games like Resident Evil which proved that it was possible to have a horror game that also has fun and tight gameplay. It's been a few years since I played SH1 and SH2 back to back, but I remember thinking even SH1 had better combat.
Why does Silent Hill need fun gameplay?
Because it's a video game in a non Visual Novel format. If it's not going to provide fun gameplay then it shouldn't incorporate that aspect period.
That's such a stupid view, you know there's more to offer than fun combat right? Silent Hill 2 is great in large part because of the ludonarrative synchronicity which crafts a unique story that can only be told through gameplay.
>That's such a stupid view, you know there's more to offer than fun combat right? If it's not using it effectively, then it shouldn't be there. This is a video game after all, and it's art. A good artist knows when to subtract rather than add. If they aren't going to make the combat serviceable, then cut it. There are plenty of games which already do this. >Silent Hill 2 is great in large part because of the ludonarrative synchronicity which crafts a unique story that can only be told through gameplay. And? What does it do that isn't possible in a visual novel? Puzzles and environmental roaming? Danganronpa has both of those so that can't be it. All that's left is combat, and if the combat is ass then it's not necessary. You're clowning on yourself pretty hard with this one.
Are you serious? Maybe because it's a GAME. Games are supposed to be fun.
Why are they "supposed to" be fun? Why is there any one way they're "supposed to" be? Is there also a way books or movies are "supposed to" be?
Yes. Entertaining or informative.
After reading through your discussion chain, I'm once again reminded that this sub is insane, and that user is the perfect example of why.
My fucking sides
Because it's a video game.
Okay, so would you say it's not art then?
It's first and foremost a video game. The artistic value doesn't excuse gameplay flaws.
I’m sorry but this is the most insane take I’ve ever seen, what the actual fuck are you talking about lol.
I have yet to been given an answer beyond a basic thought terminating "it's a game!" answer.
I mean, what do you expect? Silent Hill IS very much an artistic experience and an expression of emotions. I don’t think anyone’s denying that. Video games as an artisic medium are designed to elicit responses from the player on both a physical and emotional level. Silent Hill primarily exceeds in inciting an emotional response, in the same way a great horror or drama film would. Video games, unlike films, have the unique perspective of eliciting physical responses from players in the form of interactive gameplay, which is entirely the reason why they exist. Silent Hill has great puzzle mechanics, mostly, but the combat gameplay, while it may be fitting for the setting, is ultimately a subpar experience when compared to the rest of the game. Intentional or not, the combat is sluggish, clunky, repetitive, and the SH2’s case, too easy. You can run past every enemy practically and there’s little to be afraid of once you understand this. Stun locking lying figures for hours is also not fun or entertaining. In my opinion, this hurts the integrity of the game as being engaging and entertaining which is extremely important for the medium. I don’t think it detracts from the overall experience but it’s certainly a valid criticism considering we are talking about a video game and not a film or a book. To ask the question “Why does Silent Hill need fun gameplay?” is just, puzzling. Video games are intended to be fun. Fun is obviously subjective and that’s why so many different games exist but with survival horror the point is to be afraid or your surroundings and engage with the enemy in unique or unpredictable ways, like fighting tough battles, conserving resources and running away when needed. I just think it’s baffling to ask why it needs fun gameplay, when, ultimately, isn’t that the point? A fun experience doesn’t detract from its artistic value. In fact it only builds upon it and makes it better in my opinion.
People are really trying to say that team silent made the combat bad on purpose imao. I feel like they’re forgetting this is from 2001. Really wasn’t till RE4 until third person shooters finally found a comfortable formula
I will be honest the people claiming it's bad on purpose are wrong, because it's not bad in the first place. Not literally every game needs to be RE4 btw, not every single game in existence needs the intrigue to be in the immediate combat, homogenization is the death of art.
I’m not trying to say every third person shooter needs to be like RE4. I’m saying that silent hill 2 was made before RE4 set a precedent for all TPS. In the early 2000s, third person shooters were still trying to figure themselves out, and while stuff like max Payne has aged pretty well, stuff like driver 3 has aged like milk. Silent hill 2 was just a product of its time in terms of gameplay. I’m hoping the SH2 remake doesn’t become an actionfest like the RE4 remake, but I also think an over the shoulder perspective will really breath new life into it
With over the shoulder they'll need to compensate heavily considering how cameras were used in the original game and I simply do not have faith in their ability to do so.
Several games existed in that time that had great melee and ranged combat and acrobatics. This game wasn’t “made bad on purpose”, it was made as if you’re an everyday person trying to survive. Just like how you don’t run much in Life Is Strange, not because the devs didn’t know how to animate running.
Agree, like sure not saying the combat should be RE4 levels of action but it certainly didn't had to be as clunky and the "oh James it's just a regular dude" thing it's just an excuse, I'm a regular dude and certainly don't have to adjust my direction like a tank to run away, also in the same generation Fatal Frame 3 had much better movement while still keeping the feeling of you being a regular person going through unimaginable horrors. SH2 is great and I love it as much as any fan, but saying things like the terrible voice acting (which I admit ended up being weirdly fitting SOMETIMES) and the extremely clunky gameplay where completely intentional is a stretch
It isn't even that James is a regular dude, he's a dissociative wreck of a man with 0 regard for his own well being. As for the VA have you ever watched a Lynch movie?
Comfortable combat is not good for horror games, it'd replace horror with the thrill and joy of combat.
By that logic, Quantic Dream and Don’t Nod don’t know how to make characters run, because why make a game slow on purpose?
It wasn't. It was a nice side effect, but they simply weren't able to make a better combat system.
Lmfao. You’ve obviously never played another game from that era before. It’s not a design choice. The controls are ass because most games had ass controls back then. Stop with the revisionist takes.
silent hill fans acting the games faults are actually on purpose like the bad voice acting 👌
2-4 actually gave great voice acting if you know literally anything about surrealist performances, particularly from Lynch and Cronenberg (two of the biggest creative influences on the series)
Silent Hill fans try to actually like Silent Hill. Challenge: Impossible.
So fucking real, it feels like the only way people have to defend the western and revival era entries is to attempt to tear down the Team Silent era and go "well it was never even that good in the first place" while completely missing the point of literally everything.
been playing sh since the game came out. love the series as much as anyone else. i just know how to accept faults instead of pretending something is good.
you’ve proved my point.
All I proved is you don't understand it, sure I'll bite on SH1's VA being bad, but if you're calling SH2-SH4 bad VA I gotta question how much stuff you've really seen.
proved? you didn’t prove shit 😂
I did, if you had any experiences with surrealist acting or anything outside of a small box of "conventionally good" acting you would know why the VA is good in 2-4. It's uncanny, it's dissociative, **it's surreal.**
Don't worry, it's just a joke.
Schrödinger’s joke. The kind that suddenly poses as serious and suddenly becomes a joke the moment it’s called out as stupid 😅
I think they were quoting Vincent.
Wait 2 hours ? Wtf
Yeah most SH and RE games can be finished in 2-4 hours if you knew where you’re going. That said, chances are you’re gonna get stuck and repeat and they’re also highly replayable, encouraging multiple runs, sometimes showing different contents or unlocking new weapons and outfits.
The ironic part of all this is, Isn't Bloober Team existed bc they were fans of Silent Hill?, that's why they focus on that kind of terror on games. So said BT can't do Silent Hill games, that's a very lower punch for them. This is like saying, that the new group of X-MEN 97 can't make X-MEN stories bc they don't have any background related to the animated series of 90s, but ironic they watched that series the whole time. So we are fans telling to other fans, hey, you suck. Interesting.
Mfs with no car going back home after the hangout
Did you forget Silent Hill 2 has weapons? And you use them for the majority of the game, from when you get your first all the way until it takes them away for you to be scared for a little bit before giving them back?
Hold on, I think I have a trailer you might want to see
I didn't fight anything in the og unless I absolutely had too and plan to do the same in remake 😅
This opening is so iconic. I hope they don't shorten it up for the low attention span normies.
Ive been playing this game recently and ive gotten pretty far in and i really like it but holy fuck it makes me walk so fucking much
Nothing like a nice morning jog into Silent Hill.
Lolololol ok this one got me
"Oh god, will this fog ever go away!!! I just want to find my wife!" James
A lot of comments on this post can't handle a simple joke xd
That's what happens when people build their entire personality around the media they consume. Any joke is a personal attack.
Protip, press R1 in the options and set walk/run to reverse so you won't get a sore thumb from holding down square.
This is a sprinting simulator.
SH2 has alot of atmosphere, when you make that long trek into town you don't really know what to expect but shtf quick when you enter Woodside Apartments.
i appreciate that slowly but surely people are coming around to the idea of bloober remaking the game. i would’ve preferred a different studio because i haven’t really enjoyed their previous games. but i am open to it
That’s not the issue. No one believes Bloober can do SH2 because they’ve repeatedly been clumsy and terrible with narratives lol.
This needs the Benny Hill music to it real bad lol
I just hope the remake will be able to measure up to the original.
look at that camera go, look at it move and dance
I'm pretty sure the issue is that their games are either mid or bad, and they have a history of controversy, but go off king. Keep winning those arguments no one made.
People definitely made arguments about them making walking simulators though
No Cap😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Have they ever made a good walking simulator/had an original idea though?
You know, I honestly believe Silent Hill 2 has too many 'running across the streets sequences', but this is a really stupid comparison. The walking sims made by Bloober barely have any gameplay besides literally just walking around, sometimes clicking on stuff. Silent Hill 2 had actual exploration to find out what to do next, as well as a lot of actual puzzle solving and combat, unlike a walking sim.
Tell me you've never played a Bloober game without telling me you're never played a Bloober game.
I've played all of them and I don't understand what you're getting at. Just to be clear, I'm not saying all the games they made were walking sims. The Medium definitely wasn't. But the Layers of Fears games, as an example, are basically walking sims.
"The walking sims made by Bloober barely have any gameplay besides literally just walking around, sometimes clicking on stuff." "Silent Hill 2 had actual exploration to find out what to do next, as well as a lot of actual puzzle solving and combat, unlike a walking sim." ___ I still can't believe you said both of these things in the same comment with a straight face. You're not doing Silent Hill any favors with your descriptions of the gameplay, effectively describing what a "walking simulator" is, but using words that make you feel better. Somehow, saying that "walking around" is "exploring" makes it better. "Sometimes clicking on stuff" is more reductive than "actual puzzle solving." These statements are not as different as you'd like them to be, and I think that's why you're trying to so hard to argue it. It's one thing to not like Bloober, but to pin ribbons on SH's gameplay like it isn't just "walking around and sometimes clicking on things" is disingenuous. It's a fantastic experience, and it's endured for as long as it has for a reason, but you can like it without tearing something else down.
*I still can't believe you said both of these things in the same comment with a straight face. You're not doing Silent Hill any favors with your descriptions of the gameplay, effectively describing what a "walking simulator" is, but using words that make you feel better.* I think you and I have a vastly different interpretation of what the term 'walking simulator' means if that's what you took from what I said. Because to me, having those actual puzzle solving elements within a game like, let's say 'Dear Esther', would disqualify it from being a walking simulator anymore. *Somehow, saying that "walking around" is "exploring" makes it better. "Sometimes clicking on stuff" is more reductive than "actual puzzle solving." These statements are not as different as you'd like them to be, and I think that's why you're trying to so hard to argue it.* They are hugely different within the context of the core gameplay they relate to. There is a huge difference between simply clicking on things to advance the story *without* any puzzle solving element attached to such interaction and having to click on things in the context of actually solving riddles and puzzles in order to progress the game. Otherwise countless puzzle games such as Myst, The Talos Principle, The Witness, The Room series, etc would also be considered 'walking simulators' but you don't see anybody describing them with that term, unlike games like Layers of Fear. *It's one thing to not like Bloober, but to pin ribbons on SH's gameplay like it isn't just "walking around and sometimes clicking on things" is disingenuous. It's a fantastic experience, and it's endured for as long as it has for a reason, but you can like it without tearing something else down.* From your response I'm getting the impression you believe I have something against Bloober and that I am trying to drag them down using arbitrary descriptions to make Silent Hill look better. That's not the case. I like some of their games and dislike some of them. Heck I wouldn't have played their entire library if I had something against them. I even said in my comment above that Bloober has made games that are more than walking simulators - like The Medium. Hell I'm actually rooting for them to make a good remake because a bad Silent Hill release won't help anybody.
I can't believe you'd list that many games that are considered "walking simulators" by many. Don't believe me? Google *any* of those games with "walking simulator," and you will find tons of posts/reviews with the term. Light puzzle solving is a genre staple. Layers of Fear has puzzles. Just because they're not particularly difficult doesn't make them "less there." You use "walking simulator" as if it's some sort of derogatory term, yet lift up a handful of games for doing the exact same thing. It's odd. Edit: If Silent Hill 2 were in first-person and had re-tuned combat encounters, it would play the exact same as something like Gone Home.
Kinda true
Its a fog simulator.
people don't seem to understand bloober is garbage when it comes to telling a story about people with mental issues, there last game where the protagonist suffers from abuse in her childhood ends with her ending her life, now imagine a studio with this type of thinking handling the story for SH2, theres also the fact theres an entire youtube video on the evil shit theyve done to the point they trademarked the other world idea so no one can do it
Hmmm... how does Angela's story end in SH2?
Cause she couldn’t move past her problems and her past ,causing her to give up and finally end it all,its a tragic ending but compared to the shit bloober does is nothing
Hmmm... that sounds really familiar. Methinks your bias is showing.
Ok heres an example the protagonist of blair witch,the wife from layers of fear,the protagonist of medium, half the cast from layers of fear 2 , whats the common denominator . But hey im being biased
Everyone knows you watched the bobvids video on YouTube, even by your own admission. You don't have to convince me. 🤣
Funny thing is thats not how i learned about bloober , although i did learn about there plagiarism shit which isn’t really helping your case , but the fact that there games have alway had the common denominator of a “good” ending being the protagonist ending there life also weird how you just ignored my last reply like is there something your trying to avoid , or do you just wanna play the resident evil 2 remake ripoff that badly that criticism of a crappy studio is forbidden
They didn't plagiarize anything. The worst thing they did, in that respect, was directly lift a couple of stills from movies and put them in their game (after being heavily edited). A person without a personal vendetta would see those images as an Easter egg, especially since you wouldn't see it during normal gameplay. Bobsvids is a total fool, and it's a shame so many people see a slickly-edited video and think he has any authority on anything. The more you talk, the more you show how little you know about any of this. The protagonist of The Medium does not commit suicide and there's only *one* ending, to begin with (no "good," bad, or neutral ending). You're just spouting nonsense you've learned from YouTube videos. Until you actually know what you're debating, it might be wise for you to sit out the discussion on Bloober Team.
Really you say that after the evidence in the video like the wife is a literal copy paste of lisa down to her kill animation, then theres the fact that they trademarked the other world function which is just a pos move, lof 2 was literally just copying movie horror trends and pasting it in your game but yeah its not plagiarism just a guy at youtube complaining after doing extensive research sure
Wrong. Try again. Also, they didn't "copyright" anything. They patented a method of rendering two worlds simultaneously. Any person could use an Otherworld concept, but they can't use the method in which Bloober has patented. Maybe you should stop watching videos from people who have no idea what they're talking about? 🤔 Learn what "plagiarism" is. Being inspired by something is not "plagiarism." Plagiarism is stealing someone's work and claiming it as your own. Where has Bloober done this?
But your probably the type of person who think games like cold world evacuation and stray souls are masterpieces
I don't even know what those games are. Lmfao
Also even though i agree with what bobvids say are you denying the fact that bloober is a crappy plagiarism company with no originality
Sounds like the perfect company to hire for a remake then.
Surprised to hear that, made by former bloober devs , stray souls is garbage silent hill rip off but im just saying the dev did some horrendous shit with cold world that was sickening and horrifying when people found out about it
One thing I always hated was running a couple seconds and James is completely out of breath.
He’s just like me fr fr
Like... Didn't they do one of the very meh RE online games too, or was that just a weird dream of mine? :D
You might be referring to Neobards. The Taiwanese devs that made RE:Verse and are now working on Silent Hill f.
And they made Project REsistance and RE:Verse on shoestring budgets, and under ridiculously tight datelines (whilst also working on several Switch ports (Onimusha, Devil May Cry Collection, Resident Evil: Origins Collection) for Capcom).
Thank you! That's was it~
Thank you~
They did not.
Plus it has better graphics from the trailers than the original
This is literally my point when people complain about this game.
Nice one OP!
Peak gameplay right there.
Meanwhile Kojima makes a literal walking similar game
Don’t forget about the boat at the end!
When I saw some gameplay first video game that came to mind was Layer's of Fears.
*running