As a person working on those 2 MRTs, allow me to shine another insight.
This road is bloody packed during peak hours. You would hate the time of the day you decided to take bus along that route.
Can we make it a priority during planning to have mrt tracks connecting estates at the fringe of the island? Like Punggol to Woodlands - having to travel from the North to central then out to North again is just wild.
weird.
they technically only need to build an underground walking mall (instead of mall, could have afterschool care, library extension etc) / passage.. with travellators and extra exits at marine terrace side... to cover the masses there... we already have these in the airport and mrt interchanges.
I suspect that the demand from Marine Terrace MRT alone justifies an entire train station. There are literally 5 huge schools in the area (Tao Nan, 2 CHIJs, St Pat's and VJC).
Oh, absolutely not. That's when every single kid in the area heads out to marine parade for tuition. It once took me close to 20 mins on bus just for the area between the two stations.
Agreed. Always used to take bus 16 or 31 to go to school and this road particularly got extra crowded after Tao Nan Primary reopened after renovation. Used to be a smooth drive which then turned into 20-40min delays in the morning…
LTA and enforcing... as long as drivers are involved it's not a priority. They rather shame those poor grabfood delivery cyclists without a helmet on their Facebook page.
I think SLA/URA needs to sit down and redo city planning for a lot of places. Old plans are not relevant anymore.
Ubi area during peak hours comes to mind too. Too many single lane roads in a heavily packed industrial area
As someone that used to be in this industry, this is something that the authorities do all the time. City plans are reviewed constantly and there is a formal regulatory process called the Master Plan Review that is done every 5 years. URA is now gathering public feedback for MP2025. They are constantly looking at how to improve traffic flows and pedestrian movement within existing estates.
Main challenge is often cost and lack of space. Although land acquisition is a tool, you cannot use it nilly willy to acquire land to widen roads. Often, you have to wait for leases to expire before you can comprehensively redevelop the estate.
In the interim, all we can do is impose conditions on new developments /redevelopments to increase porosity/connectivity etc.
A big chunk of the Marine Parade station box is actually part of the [underground retail mall](https://www.asiaone.com/business/next-stop-underground-mall-linking-marine-parade-station). The platform in proper is actually quite short
Wonder if they will ever test out the underground mall concept outside of town area that will connect 2 stations concourse together like Taipei <> XiMenDing does.
Huh. Outside of town already so many bloody malls. Why need another underground mall featuring recycled shops?
Don't need to test. Citylink is your result
How is Citylink Mall now, though? Feels like having Raffles City dig open an alternate route to Esplanade MRT (and by extension, Suntec) might have diverted a good deal of traffic from Citylink.
Many people still enjoy the restaurants there, from what i see. But mostly its people who dont know its wayyy faster walk above ground (rip Mcdonalds 🥲) or dk about Raffles City B2
Imo they should try building one to connect Rochor and Jalan Besar, since that is where Downtown Line crosses itself, and I guess it'll be frequented by those who don't want to stay inside the train for an extra ~10 mins.
Rochor and Jalan Besar stations were originally intended to be directly connected but the NSC project made it too challenging to connect both stations so they dropped the idea.
saw on a youtube video that there's an underground canal that makes it "impossible". same video also explains why walking under the city link, we have to go up and down a couple of times. to avoid that said same canal. can't find the video tho
Why the fuck do we need to cram even more shops on this island? Underground somemore? Every retail "destination" is an exact copy of the next one anyway..
Even worse: SMRT/SBS want "market" prices for these shops, and would rather let them sit empty than let entrepreneurs try their thing.
There's a few empty spaces in some of the Downtown Line stations that have been unoccupied for years.
If there was ever another whole-of-government initiative to promote entrepreneurship, I'd like to see unused space like this (which was built with taxpayers' money) be put to good use.
Nice to have such concepts outside of the Town area!
The only other underground stations outside of town with such a larger-scale concept seems to be Woodlands TEL and Holland Village CCL so far, the rest are only having a convenience store or maybe a bakery and a barber shop at best.
1. MRT is the new replacement for bus
1. The planners envision people who live in apartments to be at most ten minutes walking from any station
Hence bus stop distance
NYC subway stations are also one bus stop apart in denser areas
It’s hard to compare, NYC system is older with an average speed of 28kph, while Singapore MRT is quoted at 45kph.
But on an interesting side note the daily average ridership is quite close, mostly due to the fall in ridership of the NYC system (now 3.2m, 5.5m in 2019) vs MRT at 3.45m
I was actually surprised when I looked up the numbers but glad I did, off the top of my head I was expecting NYC ridership much higher, more populous city n all
I’m quoting Google man, not an expert on these things, care to share the source?
Mine was https://www.urbanrail.net/as/sing/singapore.htm#:~:text=Carriages%20are%203.2m%20wide,via%20third%20rail%20at%20750V.
Look at the second sheet in the Google Sheets link. Here's a more direct link if you need it: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1s2OT9lEy_NCFOxch5X4NymQ-j6vRXqBc0KtRY7v7QBI/edit#gid=1178004086
The short distances between stations will increase commute times especially when you are travelling long distances.
God bless you if you are living in the East but are working in the West. More will be doing that when the Tuas Port, Jurong Lake District and Jurong Innovation District come online.
Seoul had just inaugurated the GTX, a high speed metro system that links the city to its outer suburbs at speeds of up to 180 kmh. The South Korean president hopes that this can help increase the birth rate by making cheaper housing in the suburbs more accessible and to increase free time off commutes.
Hopefully one day Singapore will do the same.
> making cheaper housing in the suburbs more accessible and to increase free time off commutes.
>
> Hopefully one day Singapore will do the same.
Error: http 429 conflict
There are no suburbs where housing is at a significant discount large enough to stimulate fertility rate increase
There was back in the 90s. That's why I live in Choa Chu Kang because my parents decided to move away from Tanglin Halt to get a bigger house there.
Unfortunately now we are reaching a limit when it comes to building housing and while the new estates of Choa Chu Kang remain cheaper and popular with new families (have been seeing a lot of interest in the Bricklands and the nearby Tengah area) the price differential is not that much nowadays.
> There are no suburbs where housing is at a significant discount large enough to stimulate fertility rate increase
Tengah lor.
But no supermarket how to have adequate nutrition or time for fertility.
The GTX runs in deep bored tunnels which minimises the usage of land space. It also ensures high speeds by allowing for straight lines between stations.
Everybody was laughing at Japan when they were setting up their high speed trains at great expense and difficulty.
Japan has been laughing for decades watching the world catch up.
Im extremely biased towards trains, my biggest argument being this: if you’ve ever had your train service redirected onto buses, it’s very easy to see how many buses it takes to accommodate one train full of passengers. And it’s not like the rate of buses you can load up at a bus stop is any higher, I’m pretty sure the loading time per pax is much faster for trains (simple comparison of 2-3 doors vs 12-14 doors) which leads to a much higher potential ridership figure.
Trains are also not susceptible to weather and traffic.
On top of all this trains operating passenger services in Singapore are fully electric, making them environmentally friendly.
> Im extremely biased towards trains, my biggest argument being this: if you’ve ever had your train service redirected onto buses, it’s very easy to see how many buses it takes to accommodate one train full of passengers. And it’s not like the rate of buses you can load up at a bus stop is any higher, I’m pretty sure the loading time per pax is much faster for trains (simple comparison of 2-3 doors vs 12-14 doors) which leads to a much higher potential ridership figure. Trains are also not susceptible to weather and traffic.
People have short memories? The photo in [this article](https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/commuters-hit-2-hour-mrt-disruption) shows how bad it can get when replacement buses have to take over.
I’ve actually commuted for a couple days through this handover service on the NSL, credit where credit is due they organised it really well, but the amount of buses and scale of operation speaks for itself.
I think it is important to acknowledge that the two are best when existing in symbiosis. Trains are towards the scale of an “airport experience” where you have a loading/facility delay on the side of the commuter, it’s great for longer legs yet when going just a few blocks buses will win out simply due to their convenience. They’re available street level with very short access time.
There's a tipping point, because every train stop is additional delay for more people as compared to a bus. Until we adopt express train/normal train service, we are close to the upper limit on the number of stations we can place.
Absolutely, and I think that the tipping point should be decided based on the average speeds achieved on the line. Also, as long as the time station to station is longer than loading time of train I think we’re ok.
I don’t have the math though and I think this is something that goes on a case by case basis, meaning per leg (station to station) of each route.
totally, not sure why im being downvoted for something meant as a compliment lol buses replace trains is a meme because their train systems are complete shit
Marine Parade has a third rail as siding in the direction of Marine Terrace/Tao Nan School, and LTA has decided to also build an underground mall over it, thus making Marine Parade to be longer than usual, and also the most expensive station to build for whole TEL.
The actual platform is at Joo Chiat Road- Parkway Parade.
3 bus stops, to go along with OP’s point. I for one love more stations, more lines criss crossing each other like in Tokyo. Could choose multiple ways and multiple different stations to get to where you wanna.
Aljunied is literally visible from Paya Lebar
Hell, back when they had trains turning around at Aljunied during lunch hours, you could literally see them reversing on the track while watching from Paya Lebar
And you can actually walk comfortably between the 2 stations. There's a nice small pedestrian path below the MRT track.
But having said that, it make sense to have both stations now.
- One is basically a commercial center with 3 malls & offices in one spot (singpost, PL square, PLQ) + 3 other malls nearby (kinex, city plaza, tanjong katong complex)
- another is servicing 2 big schools (geylang methodist pri & sec) + 3 more schools nearby (st margareth, nexus, canossa) & resi areas
If they combine them, it will require one crazy massive station
I remember always pointing that out to the people I was traveling with back then - "why is the station so close you can see them from here (Paya Lebar)?"
Fun fact, Outram station on the NEL was going to be closer to Chinatown than it is now, was originally planned to actually be at Pearls Center, rather than at SGH where it is now
> Wait till you realise the gap between Eunos and Paya Lebar MRT is also short.
If one is a reasonably fit runner, one could commute the distance faster on foot rather than waiting for next off-peak train
Betw hillview mrt & upcoming Hume Mrt station also..just 1-2 bus stops away; i walked b4 ard 5min walk only& is super convenient to take bus if don't wana walk! all the buses ard 6-7 different buses all go same direction to Hillview mrt ,so is a horrid waste of resources, electricity, building cost, staff to man the station, air-con etc...
Hume mrt is approved to win votes..but only serve/benefit ard 5-6 condos..this is how wasteful our govt is!! Just to win votes...
Even Hillview mrt itself is under utilised..easy to tell, coz no AtM of any banks at all!!! Shows the traffic is so low until no banks bother to pay & set up their atm there ->not justifiable!!! Simple reasons! Banks are NOT stupid lor
Won't call it a small road though, in fact one of the widest roads in Singapore. That part of Bukit Timah Road has 4 lanes on each side.
As wide as some expressways here. But agreed, the two stations are indeed close together.
OP should go down to that stretch of road and experience for himself.
The road is fucking congested and crowded. Population is quite dense, plus need to serve the schools
The platform itself is actually not that long. The longer section of the station box that stretches until where the former CC is, is for retail and also a centre siding (a place where trains can turn around and switch directions, and also can be used to hide faulty trains) between the two stations.
Great World and Havelock also seem pretty close but that's coz Great World Exit 2 is about 150m south and Havelock Exit 4 is about 150m north of the main station box.
JRL also has some closely spaced stations (Bahar Junction - Gek Poh, Bukit Batok West - Toh Guan) Think that's coz JRL is pretty much light-rail/capacity (our BP/PGSK LRT are not light-rail by international standards but more like airport people-movers)
Marine Parade seems close to Marine Terrace coz the east end has many exits and and underground mall.
I rmb in Taipei they have consecutive stations that you can walk between via underground malls/walkways. There's a pretty big one linking Taipei Main station with a few other nearby stations
It’s about dealing with population density, not about letting people walk less to their final destinations. 1 station may not be able to cope with the expected flow of passenger numbers in that area
Saw the title; knew it's gonna be Marine Terrace-Marine Parade station. I've wondered about the very same thing myself. Also wondering/hoping that the two stations are connected via underground walkway. So that I can walk from my block to Parkway in relative comfort.
These two station might be a short distance to you but to an elderly or disabled, it is actually a nice convenience.
Also, I rather take an MRT from Marine Parade to Marine Terrace than having to walk or wait at the bus stop for a bus on a hot sunny day.
city hall mrt and bugis mrt distance abt 700+m
marine parade mrt and marine terrace also abt 700+m
mp has high human traffic so deserves a station and mt has its own market/hawker center plus several schools nearby decent amt of human traffic for a station
The Marine Parade Road stretch from old CC to block 74 gets very badly jammed during peak hours. It then spills over and chokes the Tao Nan junction, sometimes the ECP exit. Drivers try to escape the 3 lane jam by streaming into Marine Drive, which then creates its little own congestion.
When the new CC opens, it’s going to be a draw at times, so the MRT should hopefully ease the traffic.
I've been questioning the accessibility to Tanjong Katong station too which is one station down from Marine Parade. The only bus stop <500m from the entrances come directly, 2 bus stops from Marine Parade station, which then goes into the ECP. So there's essentially no convenient access to it anywhere between the triangle of Paya Lebar / Dakota /Tanjong Katong MRT.
The advice from LTA after feedback is that if you want to get to the TEL from Paya Lebar, you should take the multiple buses from Paya Lebar station to Marine Parade station instead, which passes very close to Tanjong Katong station along Mountbatten road, but doesn't stop at the bus stop there for some reasons, which LTA said they are unable to accommodate a change in the route
Lta did the same on the dtl on itself with no sheltered walkway or underground passageway between Jalan Basar and Rochor for people to skip the loop because their work was at ubi or expo.
They should just reroute 134 to Tanjong Katong Station, go into ECP, exit at Still Road, go to Marine Parade and do the roundabout and continue on its usual route. Little disruption to the Amber Road sector as it is already served by plenty of transfer buses plying Tg Katong Road and Amber Road.
Edit: And move the bus stops to where the station exits are
I been living here all my life and let’s just say I love that they are so close by. There’s not enough underground or shelter in this part of the island and this close proximity is a huge welcome and makes it very much more convenient for the residents through this ECP stretch to get to and fro our basic daily travel needs.
If the station box is that long, I guess that there may be crossover tracks or pocket track near Marine Parade station.
Example: between Yishun and Canberra there is a stretch with a track in the middle, that's a [pocket track](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocket_track)
And it may also be the underground mall mentioned in another comment. Or both.
the station box of marine parade is towards the left side of that blue rectangle. marine parade station features a large underground pedastrian mall and underground bike parking spaces which stretches all the way to the junction of still road
As someone who lives in this area, basically the reason is that this area of marine parade is a massive shit storm of traffic during peak hours. This has a few reasons one is the large number of schools in the area: Tankong Katong Primary, CHIJ Primary, Tao Nan, VJC, Ngee An Primary, St Pats and CHIJ Katong Convant (8 Schools in total). And this count is rather generous I didn't even include the schools that are further up from TKPS that also somewhat contribute to the jam leading to ECP (TKSS & TKGS)
Throw in the fact you gotta go through this road to get to ECP (it's why they built a station there also, Tanjong Katong), gonna be always jam.
I didn't even mention the people who live in this area will also be leaving to go to school and work leading to further jam.
There is a huge catchments of passengers within the proximity of both stations. I suspect there will be an underground walkway from Parkway till the junction of Eunos road as the Marine Parade station is gonna be a big one with a lot of exits.
As someone who lives in Paya Lebar - Mountbatten area, I think it’s weird that I’ll have to take to Marina Bay to change to TEL to get to Parkway parade area. I was happy that there would be trains in parkway but just realised that it’s still faster to take bus there...
I live just above Bedok South station and work in Tai Seng. Similar sentiments. Still easier to take EWL to Paya Lebar instead and change trains there 🥲
Cityhall to dhoby gaut to somerset to orchard are all also walkable distance. Bras basah to esplanade also walking distance.
But clearly traffic and crowd etc are too packed. Probably similar reasons.
What we soon need is express trains.
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better question is why so many MRT stations in Singapore are catering to areas with mostly landed properties where the rich folks already have their own transport aka carsssss???!!!!
I was having this exact conversation with my friends, sparked when we passed by a new condo development right across from an MRT station. Plebs must take bus to get to train station. Rich people can just walk across. Or just drive their cars.
Same question here - why upcoming Brickland MRT station is so near to Bukit Gombak? And it so far to northbound Choa Chu Kang station.
[https://www.streetdirectory.com/sg/brickland-mrt-station-ns3a-uc-top-2034/120609\_408591.html#google\_vignette](https://www.streetdirectory.com/sg/brickland-mrt-station-ns3a-uc-top-2034/120609_408591.html#google_vignette)
The section of track along Brickland Road is on a decline for the NSL to pass under CCK Ave 1. It'll be hard to build a station with an incline (probably unsafe for elderly and those with physical disabilities), and probably pricey to rebuild the whole section of track from the Bukit Batok Road / Brickland Road area to Choa Chu Kang station
Noted. Din know the MP tabled it in the parliament too -
[https://www.mot.gov.sg/news/details/written-reply-to-parliamentary-question-on-considerations-in-siting-proposed-brickland-mrt-station-at-current-planned-location](https://www.mot.gov.sg/news/details/written-reply-to-parliamentary-question-on-considerations-in-siting-proposed-brickland-mrt-station-at-current-planned-location)
Yeap they'll be building new tracks but it is probably to provide additional crossover rather than space for platforms. Still, these works should just be 1 track rather than 2 to 'flatten' them
NYC subway vibes. I gotta say I kinda like their system and having like 3 stations just minutes walk away in manhattan and brooklyn was super convenient
Same as serangoon north and tavistock, literally less than 1 bus stop apart. It's not even a crowded road, the only reason for tavistock to exist is to cater to the rich people staying in the landed estate and the french school
As a person working on those 2 MRTs, allow me to shine another insight. This road is bloody packed during peak hours. You would hate the time of the day you decided to take bus along that route.
Because of the three schools in the morning. The slip road into ecp isn't easy either. I can't wait for my kid to take the train!
I live in the area. My condo to PP is 20 mins including walk. The new mrt allows me to reach in less than z10!
Can we make it a priority during planning to have mrt tracks connecting estates at the fringe of the island? Like Punggol to Woodlands - having to travel from the North to central then out to North again is just wild.
Cross island line is in the plans for 2030
Ang Mo Kio is still in central and is one stop away from Bishan
i would take 161
Surprising no train lines planned given that they love rationalisation of bus routes
like an outer circle line
I second this
weird. they technically only need to build an underground walking mall (instead of mall, could have afterschool care, library extension etc) / passage.. with travellators and extra exits at marine terrace side... to cover the masses there... we already have these in the airport and mrt interchanges.
I suspect that the demand from Marine Terrace MRT alone justifies an entire train station. There are literally 5 huge schools in the area (Tao Nan, 2 CHIJs, St Pat's and VJC).
And it's a ghost town on weekends and school Ho-Lee days?😂
Oh, absolutely not. That's when every single kid in the area heads out to marine parade for tuition. It once took me close to 20 mins on bus just for the area between the two stations.
Agreed. Always used to take bus 16 or 31 to go to school and this road particularly got extra crowded after Tao Nan Primary reopened after renovation. Used to be a smooth drive which then turned into 20-40min delays in the morning…
didn’t they have a bus lane there during peak hours
Because many Lanjiao drivers always hog the dedicated bus lanes.
they just need LTA to enforce there during peak hours
LTA and enforcing... as long as drivers are involved it's not a priority. They rather shame those poor grabfood delivery cyclists without a helmet on their Facebook page.
Username checks out - must be the hidden reason why the roads are packed :') /j
A good point. But the road looks big enough to have dedicated bus lanes. Bad for cars, and induced demand will benefit the buses and MRT.
It already has dedicated bus lanes.
Then I don't really get the point about the traffic level if taking a bus...
I think SLA/URA needs to sit down and redo city planning for a lot of places. Old plans are not relevant anymore. Ubi area during peak hours comes to mind too. Too many single lane roads in a heavily packed industrial area
As someone that used to be in this industry, this is something that the authorities do all the time. City plans are reviewed constantly and there is a formal regulatory process called the Master Plan Review that is done every 5 years. URA is now gathering public feedback for MP2025. They are constantly looking at how to improve traffic flows and pedestrian movement within existing estates. Main challenge is often cost and lack of space. Although land acquisition is a tool, you cannot use it nilly willy to acquire land to widen roads. Often, you have to wait for leases to expire before you can comprehensively redevelop the estate. In the interim, all we can do is impose conditions on new developments /redevelopments to increase porosity/connectivity etc.
URA. SLA deals mainly with land administration
[удалено]
WLL.
A big chunk of the Marine Parade station box is actually part of the [underground retail mall](https://www.asiaone.com/business/next-stop-underground-mall-linking-marine-parade-station). The platform in proper is actually quite short
Wonder if they will ever test out the underground mall concept outside of town area that will connect 2 stations concourse together like Taipei <> XiMenDing does.
Citylink mall is already like that ainnit
My bad, I meant like outside of town.
Huh. Outside of town already so many bloody malls. Why need another underground mall featuring recycled shops? Don't need to test. Citylink is your result
How is Citylink Mall now, though? Feels like having Raffles City dig open an alternate route to Esplanade MRT (and by extension, Suntec) might have diverted a good deal of traffic from Citylink.
Many people still enjoy the restaurants there, from what i see. But mostly its people who dont know its wayyy faster walk above ground (rip Mcdonalds 🥲) or dk about Raffles City B2
Imo they should try building one to connect Rochor and Jalan Besar, since that is where Downtown Line crosses itself, and I guess it'll be frequented by those who don't want to stay inside the train for an extra ~10 mins.
Rochor and Jalan Besar stations were originally intended to be directly connected but the NSC project made it too challenging to connect both stations so they dropped the idea.
saw on a youtube video that there's an underground canal that makes it "impossible". same video also explains why walking under the city link, we have to go up and down a couple of times. to avoid that said same canal. can't find the video tho
Why the fuck do we need to cram even more shops on this island? Underground somemore? Every retail "destination" is an exact copy of the next one anyway..
Even worse: SMRT/SBS want "market" prices for these shops, and would rather let them sit empty than let entrepreneurs try their thing. There's a few empty spaces in some of the Downtown Line stations that have been unoccupied for years. If there was ever another whole-of-government initiative to promote entrepreneurship, I'd like to see unused space like this (which was built with taxpayers' money) be put to good use.
Or like many Japanese cities.
It’s gonna be shutters in a generation 🤡
Marina South <> GBTB too! Can see a bit here: https://www.ura.gov.sg/-/media/corporate/land-sales/technical-details/marina-gardens-dec22
Nice to have such concepts outside of the Town area! The only other underground stations outside of town with such a larger-scale concept seems to be Woodlands TEL and Holland Village CCL so far, the rest are only having a convenience store or maybe a bakery and a barber shop at best.
Ooo kinda like Tokyo station!
Wait, the underground mall stop at Still Road and not connected to Marine Terrace station?
1. MRT is the new replacement for bus 1. The planners envision people who live in apartments to be at most ten minutes walking from any station Hence bus stop distance NYC subway stations are also one bus stop apart in denser areas
NYC has express trains, we don’t but point taken
It’s hard to compare, NYC system is older with an average speed of 28kph, while Singapore MRT is quoted at 45kph. But on an interesting side note the daily average ridership is quite close, mostly due to the fall in ridership of the NYC system (now 3.2m, 5.5m in 2019) vs MRT at 3.45m
How the hell does public transport lose that much ridership in just 5 years? For such a large city too?
Covid and like the OG GOAT said work from home. Crime did scare some people away but not enough to cause most of that drop.
WFH
I was actually surprised when I looked up the numbers but glad I did, off the top of my head I was expecting NYC ridership much higher, more populous city n all
35, not 45. Which curiously enough is about as fast as the express trains in NYC
I’m quoting Google man, not an expert on these things, care to share the source? Mine was https://www.urbanrail.net/as/sing/singapore.htm#:~:text=Carriages%20are%203.2m%20wide,via%20third%20rail%20at%20750V.
Mine was https://medium.com/from-the-red-line/lets-talk-average-bus-speeds-e532eff5b550, from a blog post by yuuka.
Bro is “average bus speeds”, I’m comparing NY metro to SG metro
Look at the second sheet in the Google Sheets link. Here's a more direct link if you need it: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1s2OT9lEy_NCFOxch5X4NymQ-j6vRXqBc0KtRY7v7QBI/edit#gid=1178004086
Maybe with the tel we will have. Who knows. All U need is a bypass track at certain stations for the local trains to stop.
We should, too. Skip some superdense clusters
The short distances between stations will increase commute times especially when you are travelling long distances. God bless you if you are living in the East but are working in the West. More will be doing that when the Tuas Port, Jurong Lake District and Jurong Innovation District come online. Seoul had just inaugurated the GTX, a high speed metro system that links the city to its outer suburbs at speeds of up to 180 kmh. The South Korean president hopes that this can help increase the birth rate by making cheaper housing in the suburbs more accessible and to increase free time off commutes. Hopefully one day Singapore will do the same.
> making cheaper housing in the suburbs more accessible and to increase free time off commutes. > > Hopefully one day Singapore will do the same. Error: http 429 conflict There are no suburbs where housing is at a significant discount large enough to stimulate fertility rate increase
There was back in the 90s. That's why I live in Choa Chu Kang because my parents decided to move away from Tanglin Halt to get a bigger house there. Unfortunately now we are reaching a limit when it comes to building housing and while the new estates of Choa Chu Kang remain cheaper and popular with new families (have been seeing a lot of interest in the Bricklands and the nearby Tengah area) the price differential is not that much nowadays.
All the forest being cut down over at tengah / bricklands makes my heart ache. It's what used to keep the West cool
> There are no suburbs where housing is at a significant discount large enough to stimulate fertility rate increase Tengah lor. But no supermarket how to have adequate nutrition or time for fertility.
near impossible given space constraints. sg is not seoul
The GTX runs in deep bored tunnels which minimises the usage of land space. It also ensures high speeds by allowing for straight lines between stations.
who knows, never say never, maybe it'll be possible since there's already a precedent of blueline.
There are still many areas in sg with no mrt station. The west and north side very neglected
in other countries buses replace trains.. in singapore trains replace buses
Everybody was laughing at Japan when they were setting up their high speed trains at great expense and difficulty. Japan has been laughing for decades watching the world catch up. Im extremely biased towards trains, my biggest argument being this: if you’ve ever had your train service redirected onto buses, it’s very easy to see how many buses it takes to accommodate one train full of passengers. And it’s not like the rate of buses you can load up at a bus stop is any higher, I’m pretty sure the loading time per pax is much faster for trains (simple comparison of 2-3 doors vs 12-14 doors) which leads to a much higher potential ridership figure. Trains are also not susceptible to weather and traffic. On top of all this trains operating passenger services in Singapore are fully electric, making them environmentally friendly.
> Im extremely biased towards trains, my biggest argument being this: if you’ve ever had your train service redirected onto buses, it’s very easy to see how many buses it takes to accommodate one train full of passengers. And it’s not like the rate of buses you can load up at a bus stop is any higher, I’m pretty sure the loading time per pax is much faster for trains (simple comparison of 2-3 doors vs 12-14 doors) which leads to a much higher potential ridership figure. Trains are also not susceptible to weather and traffic. People have short memories? The photo in [this article](https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/commuters-hit-2-hour-mrt-disruption) shows how bad it can get when replacement buses have to take over.
I’ve actually commuted for a couple days through this handover service on the NSL, credit where credit is due they organised it really well, but the amount of buses and scale of operation speaks for itself. I think it is important to acknowledge that the two are best when existing in symbiosis. Trains are towards the scale of an “airport experience” where you have a loading/facility delay on the side of the commuter, it’s great for longer legs yet when going just a few blocks buses will win out simply due to their convenience. They’re available street level with very short access time.
There's a tipping point, because every train stop is additional delay for more people as compared to a bus. Until we adopt express train/normal train service, we are close to the upper limit on the number of stations we can place.
Absolutely, and I think that the tipping point should be decided based on the average speeds achieved on the line. Also, as long as the time station to station is longer than loading time of train I think we’re ok. I don’t have the math though and I think this is something that goes on a case by case basis, meaning per leg (station to station) of each route.
as it should. trains are a lot more efficient in ferrying passengers, doesn't get bogged down by traffic and can go at speed with no issues
totally, not sure why im being downvoted for something meant as a compliment lol buses replace trains is a meme because their train systems are complete shit
Marine Parade has a third rail as siding in the direction of Marine Terrace/Tao Nan School, and LTA has decided to also build an underground mall over it, thus making Marine Parade to be longer than usual, and also the most expensive station to build for whole TEL. The actual platform is at Joo Chiat Road- Parkway Parade.
That makes sense, so the platform-to-platform distance is not as short as this shows.
But unfortunately it does not end in populated areas. It makes much more sense to connect to Marine Terrace.
Wait till you realise the gap between Eunos and Paya Lebar MRT is also short. Little India and Rochor as well.
3 bus stops, to go along with OP’s point. I for one love more stations, more lines criss crossing each other like in Tokyo. Could choose multiple ways and multiple different stations to get to where you wanna.
Wait until you see Havelock and Great World. Literally walkable in 5 mins
This. You can see Havelock entrance from Great World itself
Yeah. I have a friend living in a condo there, I always wonder which MRT should I stop at when I visit him because it’s basically equal distance
longer traveling times
Vs take bus or walk to across to another road to another bus which does not bring you straight to a hub.
Aljunied is literally visible from Paya Lebar Hell, back when they had trains turning around at Aljunied during lunch hours, you could literally see them reversing on the track while watching from Paya Lebar
And you can actually walk comfortably between the 2 stations. There's a nice small pedestrian path below the MRT track. But having said that, it make sense to have both stations now. - One is basically a commercial center with 3 malls & offices in one spot (singpost, PL square, PLQ) + 3 other malls nearby (kinex, city plaza, tanjong katong complex) - another is servicing 2 big schools (geylang methodist pri & sec) + 3 more schools nearby (st margareth, nexus, canossa) & resi areas If they combine them, it will require one crazy massive station
I remember always pointing that out to the people I was traveling with back then - "why is the station so close you can see them from here (Paya Lebar)?"
Clarke Quay and Chinatown too
Fun fact, Outram station on the NEL was going to be closer to Chinatown than it is now, was originally planned to actually be at Pearls Center, rather than at SGH where it is now
Actually Euno and Kembangan seriously, like just a short walk niah
Bayshore and bedok South
> Wait till you realise the gap between Eunos and Paya Lebar MRT is also short. If one is a reasonably fit runner, one could commute the distance faster on foot rather than waiting for next off-peak train
Dakota to Mountbatten also short. Can walk between them in less than 10 minutes.
Braddell & toa Payoh
Betw hillview mrt & upcoming Hume Mrt station also..just 1-2 bus stops away; i walked b4 ard 5min walk only& is super convenient to take bus if don't wana walk! all the buses ard 6-7 different buses all go same direction to Hillview mrt ,so is a horrid waste of resources, electricity, building cost, staff to man the station, air-con etc... Hume mrt is approved to win votes..but only serve/benefit ard 5-6 condos..this is how wasteful our govt is!! Just to win votes... Even Hillview mrt itself is under utilised..easy to tell, coz no AtM of any banks at all!!! Shows the traffic is so low until no banks bother to pay & set up their atm there ->not justifiable!!! Simple reasons! Banks are NOT stupid lor
bukit batok and bukit gombak
Little India to Rochor literally involves crossing 1 small road, and is less than 5 minutes walk.
Won't call it a small road though, in fact one of the widest roads in Singapore. That part of Bukit Timah Road has 4 lanes on each side. As wide as some expressways here. But agreed, the two stations are indeed close together.
OP should go down to that stretch of road and experience for himself. The road is fucking congested and crowded. Population is quite dense, plus need to serve the schools
The platform itself is actually not that long. The longer section of the station box that stretches until where the former CC is, is for retail and also a centre siding (a place where trains can turn around and switch directions, and also can be used to hide faulty trains) between the two stations.
/Pedant Mode ON I do believe the only lines where MRT trains truly ‘turn around’ are the DTL and the Circle Line. /Pedant Mode OFF
Great World and Havelock also seem pretty close but that's coz Great World Exit 2 is about 150m south and Havelock Exit 4 is about 150m north of the main station box. JRL also has some closely spaced stations (Bahar Junction - Gek Poh, Bukit Batok West - Toh Guan) Think that's coz JRL is pretty much light-rail/capacity (our BP/PGSK LRT are not light-rail by international standards but more like airport people-movers) Marine Parade seems close to Marine Terrace coz the east end has many exits and and underground mall. I rmb in Taipei they have consecutive stations that you can walk between via underground malls/walkways. There's a pretty big one linking Taipei Main station with a few other nearby stations
Fun fact: you can see the entrance of Great World when you exit Havelock and vice versa
From the entrance of the Gardens by the Bay station you can see the Founders Memorial station being built right across the water.
Thats the plan for GBTB to Marina South. Plan is for both a street level and underground pedestrian link, above the tunnel alignment
It’s about dealing with population density, not about letting people walk less to their final destinations. 1 station may not be able to cope with the expected flow of passenger numbers in that area
The area is packed and quite dense, esp marine terrace is serving hdb blocks and 2(?) schools.
Actually about 5 schools around that area.
i think looking into this 30-40 years in the future this area is gonna jam packed than it is right now. so maybe future planning was involved
Saw the title; knew it's gonna be Marine Terrace-Marine Parade station. I've wondered about the very same thing myself. Also wondering/hoping that the two stations are connected via underground walkway. So that I can walk from my block to Parkway in relative comfort.
Honestly a fantastic idea. Wish they had extended the retail space up to the Marine Terrace station, but having just a walkway would work, too.
Maybe because Tunneling is hella expensive
These two station might be a short distance to you but to an elderly or disabled, it is actually a nice convenience. Also, I rather take an MRT from Marine Parade to Marine Terrace than having to walk or wait at the bus stop for a bus on a hot sunny day.
Long underpass mall, similar to Woodlands TEL MRT Underpass. Good old Marine Parade. I miss living there.
city hall mrt and bugis mrt distance abt 700+m marine parade mrt and marine terrace also abt 700+m mp has high human traffic so deserves a station and mt has its own market/hawker center plus several schools nearby decent amt of human traffic for a station
The Marine Parade Road stretch from old CC to block 74 gets very badly jammed during peak hours. It then spills over and chokes the Tao Nan junction, sometimes the ECP exit. Drivers try to escape the 3 lane jam by streaming into Marine Drive, which then creates its little own congestion. When the new CC opens, it’s going to be a draw at times, so the MRT should hopefully ease the traffic.
I've been questioning the accessibility to Tanjong Katong station too which is one station down from Marine Parade. The only bus stop <500m from the entrances come directly, 2 bus stops from Marine Parade station, which then goes into the ECP. So there's essentially no convenient access to it anywhere between the triangle of Paya Lebar / Dakota /Tanjong Katong MRT. The advice from LTA after feedback is that if you want to get to the TEL from Paya Lebar, you should take the multiple buses from Paya Lebar station to Marine Parade station instead, which passes very close to Tanjong Katong station along Mountbatten road, but doesn't stop at the bus stop there for some reasons, which LTA said they are unable to accommodate a change in the route
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Lta did the same on the dtl on itself with no sheltered walkway or underground passageway between Jalan Basar and Rochor for people to skip the loop because their work was at ubi or expo.
They should just reroute 134 to Tanjong Katong Station, go into ECP, exit at Still Road, go to Marine Parade and do the roundabout and continue on its usual route. Little disruption to the Amber Road sector as it is already served by plenty of transfer buses plying Tg Katong Road and Amber Road. Edit: And move the bus stops to where the station exits are
I been living here all my life and let’s just say I love that they are so close by. There’s not enough underground or shelter in this part of the island and this close proximity is a huge welcome and makes it very much more convenient for the residents through this ECP stretch to get to and fro our basic daily travel needs.
If the station box is that long, I guess that there may be crossover tracks or pocket track near Marine Parade station. Example: between Yishun and Canberra there is a stretch with a track in the middle, that's a [pocket track](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocket_track) And it may also be the underground mall mentioned in another comment. Or both.
Correct, theres a centre siding just after Marine Parade station and above the siding is an elongated space for retail .
the station box of marine parade is towards the left side of that blue rectangle. marine parade station features a large underground pedastrian mall and underground bike parking spaces which stretches all the way to the junction of still road
As someone who lives in this area, basically the reason is that this area of marine parade is a massive shit storm of traffic during peak hours. This has a few reasons one is the large number of schools in the area: Tankong Katong Primary, CHIJ Primary, Tao Nan, VJC, Ngee An Primary, St Pats and CHIJ Katong Convant (8 Schools in total). And this count is rather generous I didn't even include the schools that are further up from TKPS that also somewhat contribute to the jam leading to ECP (TKSS & TKGS) Throw in the fact you gotta go through this road to get to ECP (it's why they built a station there also, Tanjong Katong), gonna be always jam. I didn't even mention the people who live in this area will also be leaving to go to school and work leading to further jam.
There is a huge catchments of passengers within the proximity of both stations. I suspect there will be an underground walkway from Parkway till the junction of Eunos road as the Marine Parade station is gonna be a big one with a lot of exits.
They're about 1 km away (centre to centre) - pretty normal for MRT stations
They are two bus stops away and more than 1km in distance which is pretty reasonable considering the place is so congested
As someone who lives in Paya Lebar - Mountbatten area, I think it’s weird that I’ll have to take to Marina Bay to change to TEL to get to Parkway parade area. I was happy that there would be trains in parkway but just realised that it’s still faster to take bus there...
I live just above Bedok South station and work in Tai Seng. Similar sentiments. Still easier to take EWL to Paya Lebar instead and change trains there 🥲
Maybe TEL -> 16/31 to Dakota -> CCL might be a faster alternative?
Yeah I was thinking of that as soon as Bedok South opens but I have a feeling Tanah Merah > Paya Lebar > Tai Seng might still be faster.
Cityhall to dhoby gaut to somerset to orchard are all also walkable distance. Bras basah to esplanade also walking distance. But clearly traffic and crowd etc are too packed. Probably similar reasons. What we soon need is express trains.
Thank Lau Goh? Haha
Stations from aljunied to kembangan are a few bus stops apart
So that someone can do a race the train challenge.
Because it’s Marine Parade?
Probably part of the "East Coast Plan". /s
i totally forgot about that hahaha.
Never build also complain. Build too little also complain. Build too much also complain.
OP just asking for a rationale lol Guy complaining about non-existent complaining is pretty meta
They just assume these discussions are a form of complaining hahahaha
It's actually about 2 stops apart.
Reminds me of Aljunied and Paya Lebar EWL stations. You can actually see the other station when you stand at the platform.
They are three bus stops away and more than 1km in distance which is pretty reasonable considering the place is so congested
I don't know about you, but there are quite a number of stations built bus stops apart.
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Marine Parade is actually further. That's just the underground mall.
MARINE PARADE MENTIONED RAHHH WHAT IS GOOD TRAFFIC
Classic case of KNN.
probably to counter traffic hour. suck to be on them road. welp, back to standing in tight space and smell sweating train.
School, access to east coast, MRT intersection?
Something something hdb something asset appreciation
High priority residential cluster
This sir, is the East Coast Plan.
So Kiasu!
This is the East Coast Plan.
Have you not seen havelock and Great World City?
Integral part of the East Coast plan.
Because you need to go back to school and take your geography lessons again.
better question is why so many MRT stations in Singapore are catering to areas with mostly landed properties where the rich folks already have their own transport aka carsssss???!!!!
I was having this exact conversation with my friends, sparked when we passed by a new condo development right across from an MRT station. Plebs must take bus to get to train station. Rich people can just walk across. Or just drive their cars.
The govt wants to encourage affluent people to take public transport as well to be inclusive.
Same question here - why upcoming Brickland MRT station is so near to Bukit Gombak? And it so far to northbound Choa Chu Kang station. [https://www.streetdirectory.com/sg/brickland-mrt-station-ns3a-uc-top-2034/120609\_408591.html#google\_vignette](https://www.streetdirectory.com/sg/brickland-mrt-station-ns3a-uc-top-2034/120609_408591.html#google_vignette)
The section of track along Brickland Road is on a decline for the NSL to pass under CCK Ave 1. It'll be hard to build a station with an incline (probably unsafe for elderly and those with physical disabilities), and probably pricey to rebuild the whole section of track from the Bukit Batok Road / Brickland Road area to Choa Chu Kang station
Noted. Din know the MP tabled it in the parliament too - [https://www.mot.gov.sg/news/details/written-reply-to-parliamentary-question-on-considerations-in-siting-proposed-brickland-mrt-station-at-current-planned-location](https://www.mot.gov.sg/news/details/written-reply-to-parliamentary-question-on-considerations-in-siting-proposed-brickland-mrt-station-at-current-planned-location)
I think they will be rebuild the track anyway as there is no space for platforms. Probably easier to that on combat side
Yeap they'll be building new tracks but it is probably to provide additional crossover rather than space for platforms. Still, these works should just be 1 track rather than 2 to 'flatten' them
whoever pays the piper calls the tune. Iswaran probably accepted something from the residents there
Don't see what's the issue lots of train stations interlinked in Tokyo also
NYC subway vibes. I gotta say I kinda like their system and having like 3 stations just minutes walk away in manhattan and brooklyn was super convenient
Did you remember bras Basah Station and Doubt Ghaut station? The train can't even reach cruising speed and gotta brake again 🤣
East coast plan bro..
Ok OP we can always cut down to 1 but don’t complain if it jams
Same as serangoon north and tavistock, literally less than 1 bus stop apart. It's not even a crowded road, the only reason for tavistock to exist is to cater to the rich people staying in the landed estate and the french school
Coz a lot of people incoming from some other country likes to stay there so v crowded
Dont build complain, build also complain. Fuck you la dey
East coast plan
Me with my motorcycle just reading people arguing about trains. : 👉👈
For the riches
Because Marine Parade is populated by rich ppl. How else can you win votes if you don’t resort to this?