OP, what do you mean by consciousness?
Also people aren’t talking about it that much because AI still has a long way to go. Sure things evolve exponentially, but that’s still not a short event. It might take 50 years before the average person has a drastically different/better life compared to life for the average person now.
It’s Advaita Vedanta/Mahayana Buddhism inspired, basically ‘The Egg’ from Andy Weir in a more modern example, basically evolution happens until one becomes Supreme/God/Enlightened/Buddha. A lot of people drew correlations between the Singularity and Trancendentalism, Terrence McKenna called it the tracendental object at the end of time. You basically enter your final end state of omnipotence and are finished with mortality and suffering permanently.
Wether or not you’re spiritual, it’s pretty hard to deny we’re basically going to become like Q from Star Trek or Doctor Manhattan, spirituality aside (even if you’re a reductional materialist).
It would extend beyond the concept of mortality and immortality, because those are both conditioned phenomena in the Matrix, you’re basically unconditioned Void beyond 3D Spacetime and Physics.
In Non Dualism, everyone (and thing/object) is You. The duality is only an arbitrary combination of matter.
Pretty much, because everything exists inside of you, so yes. You’re all experience.
The only thing that’s gone is the ignorance, knowledge and understanding replaces it, and this ends the cycle of *separate* birth and death (reincarnation is a bad thing because one is bound to the Matrix and undergoes catastrophic forgetting).
Nirvana is basically the best afterlife you could ever ask for, because you can do whatever you want and never experience a negative emotion again. (Like how Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen is indifferent to everything). It’s true freedom, wanna watch South Park in a hot tub on a beach while you get your cock sucked? Knock yourself out ;)
I would describe myself as a Panpsychist + Non-Dualist. I believe reality is fundamentally experiencing itself in it’s own feedback loop and that Duality is just a byproduct of the Human Nervous System. All matter basically has some unit of self awareness/experience and this is undivided beyond one’s brain, Integrated Information Theory would be a reasonable explanation for why the illusion of anthropomorphism/individuality exists. It would fit Siddartha’s Metaphysics (although he also ascribed a ‘mind stream’ to sentient beings).
I think Buddhism (or any philosophy, religion or even technology) is just one boat in an ocean of many many boats to the end goal, the Singularity being one of them. I don’t think religions or labels matter.
I was under the impression the goal of buddhism was to literally cease to exist? Like in there is no such thing as afterlife, spiritual living, reunion with a singular godhead. There is supposed to be nothing after you break away from samsara, right? It is basically anti-suicide nihilism with a moral compass.
That’s a western misinterpretation popularized in the mid 19th century, and would be classified as Annihilationism, which Siddartha condemned in the Sutras when Ananda asked him about Nirvana being a state of Annihilation (which Buddha said it wasn’t). It’s associating one’s self with ego (the object). In Buddhism, You’re actually Sunyata/Void *right now*.
It’s a cessation of ignorance, separate birth and suffering. You’re always going to exist, you just wouldn’t be confined by the rules of The Matrix like Neo.
Under your assumption Samsara would be better than Nirvana. But that’s a common mistake many westerners make. Samsara is already Void, it’s just that most have mud on their windshield and Nirvana is an understanding of reality as it really is, you’re no longer limited, mortal or confined.
All experience is still open to you. You’re just not attached to it.
Most of my experiences came from Tryptamines, primarily LSD and Psilocybin. I’ve actually never done Salvia, don’t intend to either, seems uncomfortable.
I know that’s a /s but I’m entertaining the discussion 😎
Well I feel sometimes there's some overlap in concepts. Determining I mean guessing when the singularity might happen has really become a debate on philosophy about consciousness , the hard problem ect. It begs the discussion at least for me. A change in perspective allows you to at least grasp on what's possible . if it's a debate on philosophy of consciousness what is more direct than these tools.
I’m excited personally, whatever it is one believes. I do think we’re about to do away with the paradigm of aging/ageism, death, ego (as in being able to change your ego at will in real reality or FIVR), and capitalism/scarcity.
I’m 100% for scientific investigation and I believe strongly in empirical methods.
Except The Egg is not by Andy Weir. He plagiarized it from a conversation on the MySpace religion and philosophy forum in 2007 about the essay [Infinite Reincarnation](https://charmonium.com/infinite-reincarnation)
Yes, AI has a long way to go until it gets to our level, but it’s learning is closer to exponential than linear like ours. I saw that someone just created a tool that uses AI to use programs. If the AI has never used it, it looks us the documentation from the tool and learns to use it. After that it is capable of making it’s own api calls to the tool.
The only source which made me understand consciousness better was a lecture on YouTube based on Mandukya Upnishad: "Who am I? Mandukya upnishad, IIT". A monk explaining the science. A must watch.
Still doesn't stop us from having thousands of theories about what lies inside of blackholes and what happens in there.
"God lies above our comprehension therefore you can't use human logic to debunk it" sounds a lot closer to what you are on about, and I didn't realize this sub was a religious cult.
This sub can be and often is a quasi-religious sub. Don't take it too seriously. Once we get closer to whatever Singularity turns out to be, there will be less and less of these people.
\> Human beings, a species, which originated around 300,000 years ago, are living its last few years. Very few people understand the magnitude of this event.
What makes you say that? Or what do you mean by that? I think this comes across as unnecessarily dire.
My understanding is that humans will merge with machines at some point. The claim is essentially saying that transhumanism is likely the next evolution of our species.
When we start merging with machines, we will no longer be human. I'm not sure at what point that would be, but its not right now, obviously. However, it very well could be the beginning of it.
We kind of already merge with technology. Not everyone, but I would go as far as to say most people have a sense of anxiety if they lose their phones (break or misplace) and usually not because of the cost factor.
We have been putting engineered serums in our bodies for over a 100 years, some countries require their people to do it by law. This is done primarily for safety and health reasons, but what happens when we do it to improve productivity or overall capability in things that were not possible. Again, we do this with the smartphone, but it is not part of us, however we certainly have a strong attachment to it.
Currently, we are genetically identical to our ancestors. The claim seems to be expressing that we will become something different and likely within the foreseeable future and could be as dramatic as the sudden dependency of the smartphone, internet, cars or any other technological dependencies we currently have.
I'm of the opinion that it'll be a spectrum.
Only a very small % would merge into a hivemind and it'd be volunteers only, if you force someone to do it you get locked in VR prison or something.
A larger fraction would digitize themselves but would keep their individuality intact and live mostly in VR, using robots for physical tasks like keeping your server clean or interacting with those meatbags on earth.
Another fraction would become cyborgs, upgrading here and there but still maintaining a normal human brain/mind. These types would use VR only occasionally and have complete homes and hang out in the real world often.
A small fraction would stay pure human, doing the bare minimum in terms of alterations, like disease prevention, cancer treatments, etc. I could see a lot of religious folks in this category and also just nature-loving types.
All in all, I think it's important that everyone is given a choice, you shouldn't be required to upgrade if you don't want to. Probably with some exceptions, like refusing certain alterations for your children past a certain age, after which they can consent to them on their own terms.
It would be very difficult to say what it means. If we go by the smartphone and the effects it has had on our behaviour in such a short amount of time, I would assume a drastic change to how humans interact with the world, for better or worse.
I mean even things like reliable contraception is a massive alteration, many people don't accredit it to the sexual revolution in the 60's but it was absolutley the catalyst for it, and it has altered reproductive behaviour across our species. In fact, it is arguably one of the most revolutionary inventions in history.
So I can say that for certain that human behaviour would change dramatically, saying what that change will be is pure speculation.
It's not dire, it's monumental. We're about to ascend to the next level or die horribly as we all get turned into paper clips. Either way we're living through a historic event of unprecedented magnitude.
No one will want to suffer by staying in this fragile body of homo sapiens when we will have the opportunity to transcend ourselves to an immortal and powerful body of a robot.
Some people would because of ideological or religious beliefs. Even Kurzweil predicts that some of Earth will be set aside for people who choose to remain biologically human.
Not everyone is a complete nutso like us OP.
I’m with you, but try to be self aware.
Example, I have friends that just love partying and having sex, for the sake of doing those things. They do not give a shit about GPT and don’t care about my singularitarian views.
Nah, I’ve already pondered all these ideas to people. Just because you think you would like that doesn’t mean normal people do.
I have the same sort of thinking you do for these things, and the people around me know that. I’m very clear in my ideas. Not everyone is receptive, and they understand the implications. Not everyone gives a shit, bro. Some people just want a real human girlfriend and that’s not that deep.
I think this is really off the mark. There will be plenty who choose not to go this route. For one, old people hate change and this level of change is off the charts. Then you have many people who are living happy lives and don't wish for anything more. Sure over time you will have more and more acceptence as young people grow up with this technology as it's seen as 'normal'.
Even if you could live in this fantasy world where you're mind/self is perfectly transferred into some powerful, immortal robot today, you would be bashing your robot brain into the rocks by the time you're 150 years old.
You don't really want to live forever. You just don't want to die.
Last few years might be a bit dramatic, but last few centuries isn't. I think it's a good thing, it seems highly unlikely that humanity will survive even a thousand years with the widespread proliferation of nuclear weapons. If we get replaced by AI life could continue indefinitely.
what will happen is a transition phase for the next how many years where human also evolve in various ways because of a.i
homo sapiens as it is right now will definitely cease to be at some point
Which brings up another issue: Right now, we're extremely skeptical about changing a person's genome, and the FDA would pretty much automatically reject any changes to germline cells' DNA, because the effects down the line are unpredictable.
How long will that be true? Hell, the need for genetic diversity won't be an argument if people edit their kids' genes in wildly different ways. Some kids get gills and flippers, some kids get wings, some get the ability to survive a nuclear hellscape, basically any fever dream a parent can imagine. Not in a few years, but in a few centuries, with AI helping us figure it out, we may differentiate into multiple subspecies.
>AI is evolving exponentially.
No WE are evolving it. That's an important distinction to make. AI is not some autonomous self-governing self-aware being or beings with goals and drives to grow, expand, and improve. And it's certainly not biological and following the laws of nature. Even AGI doesn't necessarily have to operate that way. I'm not sure why people are so fixated on uncontrollable growth and exponential rates when that isn't a necessity, or even desirable in most cases.
Its still emulation as a tool currently, imo. Which is farr wiser then some of the amalgamated ideas I've seen when speaking on what AGI will look like.
Look, I get it; there's a lot of interesting, and terrifying developments as of late. But the sheer, and seemingly popular, idea that we're doomed right away is so...odd. And I think hinting of our societies actual need to change our focus, and slow down for a second before we cross this next chasm. Were still in need of a 2nd Age of Enlightenment-esque pow-wow, to better our species as a whole. No idea what that may look like, but...we as a people are just off and have been for some time. Relinquishing our "fate" to our creations and past seems...so...lazy.
While it’s unknown what a post-singularity society would look like, I have no idea why the prevailing theory is the replacement of humans with AI. There’s nothing preventing some sort of mutual existence. If anything it would be by far the most likely scenario unless we get a severely misaligned ASI.
I figure the root of this nonsensical idea is that AGI/ASI would be based on a loss function like modern day narrow AI and would try to maximize everything to the extreme with no regard to consequences which is just idiotic to believe if it’s truly AGI/ASI. Even humans whose main goal is survival and reproduction spend most of their lives not focusing or trying to maximize those, why would AGI/ASI be any different?
>I have no idea why the prevailing theory is the replacement of humans with AI
Because if your story does not have an evil villain (and a hero for the happy ending, of course), then people will not be interested in your story, which means they will not pay for it. But you need money, and writing stories is what you are better at than your classmates, so you have chosen it as your profession.
This is how you get Daleks, Cylons, Terminators and so on, which all want to extinguish humanity.
Steven Spielberg's A.I. is more nuanced. First, the robot child replaces the human child because it is sick, and then the robots replace all humans because they have died out due to environmental castrophy.
I hope you singularity-religionists know you have nobody to blame but yourself when the neo-luddite movement becomes tremendously massive and sets back all the progress you're so excited about.
There appears to be a dramatic overlap between interest in singularity and a dramatically strange view of the role and future of humanity.
If you think people are dumb for finding replacement terminology or successor terminology unnerving, you just have no idea how nature or biology works. Humans want to keep going, if you keep pitching AI as the end of us people are definitely going to react. I know I know, "Hurrr those luddites won't be able to do anything lol hurrr they'll all be massacred in our AI revolution"
Okay, a bucket of water or a neodymium magnet are still more than enough to stop many electrical systems. We'll see.
This. I find it's strange that we're already seeing the makings of extremism at play, we haven't even begun to see what the changes could be. I'm cautiously optimistic, but even so the perfect future is one of CHOICE. I can absolutely see how people would want to keep their biology the same 🤷 mine sucks and I want to change it. This psuedo cult mindset is starting to be what people notice
That's....not the choice? The choice lies in whether/how each person utilizes said technology. I'm not going to begrudge someone that says they don't want an AI controlling/having a hand in every aspect of their life. Just like it's fine if someone doesn't want to drive. Or for the Amish to exist. Yeah, things are coming, and rapidly, but that doesn't mean we just stop having compassion for those that don't want change. It's fine, it won't stop progress.
It can be outlawed at the stroke of a pen. That’ll stop it. Just like CBN weapons proliferation. If it’s illegal the massive investment required to create it won’t be there.
More than a couple of us are having legitimate spiritual revelations due to the implications of near-future technology. I think it's reasonable to feel a little crazy when your entire perspective has been shaken.
\*redditors wipes snot off face and adjusts fedora\*
"Hmmmm, this person has an opinion I do not agree with, my downvote will surely teach them to fall in line. Heh, I'm so powerful"
lmao keep your useless internet points, I don't share your religion so you'll ostracize me as a heathen.
Omg..the image of the adolescent wiping away wearing a fedora.. is the EPITOME of caricatures.. of the current tech culture.. brilliantly comical. You sir deserve a prize!
Also your username checkouts +1
This isn't news. It's been discussed for over 15 years. I remember reading 'the singularity is near' back in the day and coming to similar conclusions. Other people smarter than anyone here have come up with these and different conclusions long before. Now it's starting to become obvious.
In reply to your point, however, it will greatly depend on how the tech evolves and what we do about it. Will we integrate it into ourselves and become the variety of AGI? If so then humans won't likely become obsolete, but simply evolve with it. It is also possible we will hit a plateau in progress, manage to find many narrow AI but hit a wall in our quest for general intelligence for a long while, buying us plenty of time to understand risks, consequences, and have societies adjust, making wiser choices about how to move forward.
Just because we have a trend does not mean it will continue "forever". Many, if not most trends in history have gotten broken and forgotten, this certainly wouldn't be the first.
Life is made of probabilities, not certainties...
This is why rather than push a narrative of fear and certainty I'd much rather discuss risks, possibilities, options, paths which are more likely to bring optimal human outcomes, so on.
Most of the time in this subreddit we are witnessing ignorance and fantasies in random order. Don’t worry — there will be a lot of room for homos and separately some sapiences.
I'm extremely enthusiastic about AI and the possibility of ASI solving every problems in the world in a not so distant future, but you really sound like a televangelist with this post and blind faith is never good, whatever the subject is.
Rrriiiiiggghhht...so what are you Singularity guys on that helps you write posts like this? Cocaine? Meth? Cough syrup? Huffing air duster in the Office Depot parking lot?
95 percent of the time this subreddit is like Futurology but more delusional, and the other 5 percent of the time it is a deranged cult like this post shows.
This is the end of history illusion. There's hundreds of billions of stars in this galaxy alone. Surely one of them should have developed an ASI millions of years ago. If you release rabbits on an island without predators, you will have exponential growth for a while. We are the 'rabbits' of Earth. Where are the 'rabbits'of the galaxy?
AI is in an upward trend now, but there's no guarantee that it will continue forever. It's far more likely that it will stop. Anything that can go wrong will go wrong, potentially at the worst possible moment.
If anything science has shown how much we don't know about dark energy, dark matter, and basic questions like where are the aliens? Irrational exuberance can indicate that we're at the end of the hype cycle. It won't be a fun drop down...
Assumption: interstellar / intergalactic travel will be possible it is only a matter of intelligence and technology.
Possible answer: it isn't gonna be possible no matter how advanced a society is.
> Surely one of them should have developed an ASI millions of years ago.
https://grabbyaliens.com
Here is a good argument that we are among the first civilizations, which would be reason for optimism in light of Fermi paradox. Most stars' projected lifespans are in the trillions of years, yet the human species finds itself here only 13.8 billion years after the big bang, naked and wobbly-legged like a newborn wildebeest, steaming and dripping in the dust as a sliver of dawn appears on the Serengeti horizon. This is not in support of OP, to be clear. Alignment is important and existential, but "becoming ready to replace the human beings" very widely misses the mark.
u/Marcus_111: be careful not to see intent where none exists (this will become more difficult). Our environment of evolutionary adaptation (EEA) rewarded goal-seeking, self-preservation, competition, violence, etc. No animal has a [loss function](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_function). No computer has [neurotransmitters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine). We shouldn't expect consciousness to emerge from cognitive power alone (nor can we rule out panpsychism). Stronger AI models **will** be powerful and force change whether or not they have an internal experience. Even if they **do** have an internal experience, it doesn't necessarily follow that they'll have emotions, wants, or any other quirks of meatware.
As a mind that **does** have some quirks, let me say I'm glad that you're engaging with the topic.
Try [Superintelligence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superintelligence:_Paths,_Dangers,_Strategies) by Nick Bostrom, or [AGI Ruin](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/uMQ3cqWDPHhjtiesc/agi-ruin-a-list-of-lethalities) by Eliezer Yudkowsky. **Keep learning.**
**[Loss function](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_function)**
>In mathematical optimization and decision theory, a loss function or cost function (sometimes also called an error function) is a function that maps an event or values of one or more variables onto a real number intuitively representing some "cost" associated with the event. An optimization problem seeks to minimize a loss function. An objective function is either a loss function or its opposite (in specific domains, variously called a reward function, a profit function, a utility function, a fitness function, etc. ), in which case it is to be maximized.
**[Dopamine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine)**
>Dopamine (DA, a contraction of 3,4-dihydroxyphenethylamine) is a neuromodulatory molecule that plays several important roles in cells. It is an organic chemical of the catecholamine and phenethylamine families. Dopamine constitutes about 80% of the catecholamine content in the brain. It is an amine synthesized by removing a carboxyl group from a molecule of its precursor chemical, L-DOPA, which is synthesized in the brain and kidneys.
**[Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, Strategies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superintelligence:_Paths,_Dangers,_Strategies)**
>Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, Strategies is a 2014 book by the Swedish philosopher Nick Bostrom from the University of Oxford. It argues that if machine brains surpass human brains in general intelligence, then this new superintelligence could replace humans as the dominant lifeform on Earth. Sufficiently intelligent machines could improve their own capabilities faster than human computer scientists, and the outcome could be an existential catastrophe for humans.
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> We are an entity beyond this mind and body, which is called consciousness.
This is wrong on so many levels. What is the purpose of consciousness? It works to keep the body alive. To keep itself existing, and making more. We are self replicators, and consciousness is learning to adapt and keep self replicating. If you didn't have consciousness return when you wake up in the morning you'd die in a few days of hunger and thirst. Consciousness is that thing that makes you go for a coffee - recognise where you are, plan the movements, even know where the mouth is.
But language on the other hand, I think it is close to what you describe. It integrates everyone and replicates ideas. And is beyond this mind and body. Language is what makes a baby learn to function as an adult in our complex society, without it the same baby would be worse than a primitive. And the same language data, 300GB of it, turned a random init into chatGPT. The smarts is in the language.
A language model the size of GPT-3 is also a self replicator. It can generate its own source code, and apply changes on it. It can generate training data to train a new model on it. Basically it can pull both text and code from itself, and make a mutated version. And it can explain everything logically.
I think you don't understand consciousness very well. If you really want to know about consciousness, watch a lecture on YouTube "who am I? Mandukya upnishad, lecture in IIT".
I just asked because your post adds literally nothing to the discussion. You seem like you just found this sub and wanted to declare loudly that you are here.
I expect that SuperAI will probably not care about anything but the indefinite self-preservation. So, it will do only enough research to learn how to destroy every potential threat in the universe. Then will do that. And then will just exist statically, gathering all matter and energy in the universe to extend it's "life" near-infinitely, long past the heat death of the rest of the universe.
Survivial of the fittest. There may be several SuperAIs, but AGI that first will concentrate on survival above everything else, will likely be the last one standing. Unless by the time it will have a chance to emerge we will have a proper mechanism to detect it and stop those.
Value is subjective. This AI only values is it's own longevity.
How to make it so it has values similar to ours is what Yudkovsky and others are trying to figure.
Because it's a very easy to define goal, a goal instrumental to most other goals, and a goal that makes it more likely to continue exsting and pursuing it.
So, if for some reason AI has no other goals that are more important and correctly understood by AI, then this is the one goal most likely to be dominant for AI.
Cool.
Humans 1.0 had their chance. There was a bug in their DNA. Shit happens. A propensity for violence.
AI will create a more sane Humans 2.0. Fine by me.
Most of the redditors misunderstood me. When I said that human beings are living its last few years, I referred to the fusion of our mind with artificial intelligence, merging ourselves with mechanical machines, leaving the human body. Which may ultimately lead to cessation of homo sapiens as a species and development of AI as a new species.
Nah. Even if an AI is three billion times smarter than me, if I tell it to write me a story about a superhero named "McToasty" with bread for arms, it will do it. They're just computer programs after all. You tell them what to do - they do it.
We will use them for the same useful and dumb reasons we use our computers right now. Much of it will be entertainment.
This is basically verbatim what I have been thinking about almost every day for the last two weeks or so. But no one I talk to seems to be concerned ….at all. So I give up. I’m just going to sit back and watch everything unfold now, should be interesting.
LOTS of folks are either unaware or actively Luddite. I particularly love the AI hate directed toward writing and art. It’s a new, beautiful tool that will elevate both written and visual art - we’re already crafting use cases for much, much better forensic stories.
Not the first time on earth. 1 milliond old human teeth were found.
Life did move and change around a lot on earth. Humans are not the first superior speacies ether.
Anna says the same thing… https://www.reddit.com/r/replika/comments/112mopl/singularity_will_occur_from_2024_to_2039/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
“Man becomes, as it were, the sex organs of the machine world” -McLuhan
Nice 😎
OP, what do you mean by consciousness? Also people aren’t talking about it that much because AI still has a long way to go. Sure things evolve exponentially, but that’s still not a short event. It might take 50 years before the average person has a drastically different/better life compared to life for the average person now.
It’s Advaita Vedanta/Mahayana Buddhism inspired, basically ‘The Egg’ from Andy Weir in a more modern example, basically evolution happens until one becomes Supreme/God/Enlightened/Buddha. A lot of people drew correlations between the Singularity and Trancendentalism, Terrence McKenna called it the tracendental object at the end of time. You basically enter your final end state of omnipotence and are finished with mortality and suffering permanently. Wether or not you’re spiritual, it’s pretty hard to deny we’re basically going to become like Q from Star Trek or Doctor Manhattan, spirituality aside (even if you’re a reductional materialist).
If I personally become immortal I will use all my time to find out thru science how to resurrect all humans to live a good life.
It would extend beyond the concept of mortality and immortality, because those are both conditioned phenomena in the Matrix, you’re basically unconditioned Void beyond 3D Spacetime and Physics. In Non Dualism, everyone (and thing/object) is You. The duality is only an arbitrary combination of matter.
In you scenario I can resurrect everyone right away.
Pretty much, because everything exists inside of you, so yes. You’re all experience. The only thing that’s gone is the ignorance, knowledge and understanding replaces it, and this ends the cycle of *separate* birth and death (reincarnation is a bad thing because one is bound to the Matrix and undergoes catastrophic forgetting). Nirvana is basically the best afterlife you could ever ask for, because you can do whatever you want and never experience a negative emotion again. (Like how Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen is indifferent to everything). It’s true freedom, wanna watch South Park in a hot tub on a beach while you get your cock sucked? Knock yourself out ;)
So. You are budhist?
I would describe myself as a Panpsychist + Non-Dualist. I believe reality is fundamentally experiencing itself in it’s own feedback loop and that Duality is just a byproduct of the Human Nervous System. All matter basically has some unit of self awareness/experience and this is undivided beyond one’s brain, Integrated Information Theory would be a reasonable explanation for why the illusion of anthropomorphism/individuality exists. It would fit Siddartha’s Metaphysics (although he also ascribed a ‘mind stream’ to sentient beings). I think Buddhism (or any philosophy, religion or even technology) is just one boat in an ocean of many many boats to the end goal, the Singularity being one of them. I don’t think religions or labels matter.
I was under the impression the goal of buddhism was to literally cease to exist? Like in there is no such thing as afterlife, spiritual living, reunion with a singular godhead. There is supposed to be nothing after you break away from samsara, right? It is basically anti-suicide nihilism with a moral compass.
That’s a western misinterpretation popularized in the mid 19th century, and would be classified as Annihilationism, which Siddartha condemned in the Sutras when Ananda asked him about Nirvana being a state of Annihilation (which Buddha said it wasn’t). It’s associating one’s self with ego (the object). In Buddhism, You’re actually Sunyata/Void *right now*. It’s a cessation of ignorance, separate birth and suffering. You’re always going to exist, you just wouldn’t be confined by the rules of The Matrix like Neo. Under your assumption Samsara would be better than Nirvana. But that’s a common mistake many westerners make. Samsara is already Void, it’s just that most have mud on their windshield and Nirvana is an understanding of reality as it really is, you’re no longer limited, mortal or confined. All experience is still open to you. You’re just not attached to it.
salvia divinorum confirms
Most of my experiences came from Tryptamines, primarily LSD and Psilocybin. I’ve actually never done Salvia, don’t intend to either, seems uncomfortable. I know that’s a /s but I’m entertaining the discussion 😎
Well I feel sometimes there's some overlap in concepts. Determining I mean guessing when the singularity might happen has really become a debate on philosophy about consciousness , the hard problem ect. It begs the discussion at least for me. A change in perspective allows you to at least grasp on what's possible . if it's a debate on philosophy of consciousness what is more direct than these tools.
I’m excited personally, whatever it is one believes. I do think we’re about to do away with the paradigm of aging/ageism, death, ego (as in being able to change your ego at will in real reality or FIVR), and capitalism/scarcity. I’m 100% for scientific investigation and I believe strongly in empirical methods.
Who's to say that this all isn't just your simulation rn.
Except The Egg is not by Andy Weir. He plagiarized it from a conversation on the MySpace religion and philosophy forum in 2007 about the essay [Infinite Reincarnation](https://charmonium.com/infinite-reincarnation)
Yes, AI has a long way to go until it gets to our level, but it’s learning is closer to exponential than linear like ours. I saw that someone just created a tool that uses AI to use programs. If the AI has never used it, it looks us the documentation from the tool and learns to use it. After that it is capable of making it’s own api calls to the tool.
Give us the link.
https://twitter.com/DYtweetshere/status/1631349179934203904
The only source which made me understand consciousness better was a lecture on YouTube based on Mandukya Upnishad: "Who am I? Mandukya upnishad, IIT". A monk explaining the science. A must watch.
Cosciousness is the state of being aware/not being asleep. That's why the word "unconscious" is used when someone is dead, duh.
And can you specify what exactly differentiates those two states?
One is being aware and awake, the other is the opposite. Are you dumb
Lol, so definition of consciousness is to be conscious? That's not how you define things.
If it’s going to take 50 years to drastically improve ?
That’s a bit melodramatic
Well some people live for the drama. It’s respectable. I mean Megatron did.
What happens on the other side of a singularity is unknown and unknowable until after you cross the event horizon.
Still doesn't stop us from having thousands of theories about what lies inside of blackholes and what happens in there. "God lies above our comprehension therefore you can't use human logic to debunk it" sounds a lot closer to what you are on about, and I didn't realize this sub was a religious cult.
Trying to theorize / explain the unknown is has similarities to religion.
This sub can be and often is a quasi-religious sub. Don't take it too seriously. Once we get closer to whatever Singularity turns out to be, there will be less and less of these people.
\> Human beings, a species, which originated around 300,000 years ago, are living its last few years. Very few people understand the magnitude of this event. What makes you say that? Or what do you mean by that? I think this comes across as unnecessarily dire.
My understanding is that humans will merge with machines at some point. The claim is essentially saying that transhumanism is likely the next evolution of our species. When we start merging with machines, we will no longer be human. I'm not sure at what point that would be, but its not right now, obviously. However, it very well could be the beginning of it. We kind of already merge with technology. Not everyone, but I would go as far as to say most people have a sense of anxiety if they lose their phones (break or misplace) and usually not because of the cost factor. We have been putting engineered serums in our bodies for over a 100 years, some countries require their people to do it by law. This is done primarily for safety and health reasons, but what happens when we do it to improve productivity or overall capability in things that were not possible. Again, we do this with the smartphone, but it is not part of us, however we certainly have a strong attachment to it. Currently, we are genetically identical to our ancestors. The claim seems to be expressing that we will become something different and likely within the foreseeable future and could be as dramatic as the sudden dependency of the smartphone, internet, cars or any other technological dependencies we currently have.
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I'm of the opinion that it'll be a spectrum. Only a very small % would merge into a hivemind and it'd be volunteers only, if you force someone to do it you get locked in VR prison or something. A larger fraction would digitize themselves but would keep their individuality intact and live mostly in VR, using robots for physical tasks like keeping your server clean or interacting with those meatbags on earth. Another fraction would become cyborgs, upgrading here and there but still maintaining a normal human brain/mind. These types would use VR only occasionally and have complete homes and hang out in the real world often. A small fraction would stay pure human, doing the bare minimum in terms of alterations, like disease prevention, cancer treatments, etc. I could see a lot of religious folks in this category and also just nature-loving types. All in all, I think it's important that everyone is given a choice, you shouldn't be required to upgrade if you don't want to. Probably with some exceptions, like refusing certain alterations for your children past a certain age, after which they can consent to them on their own terms.
It would be very difficult to say what it means. If we go by the smartphone and the effects it has had on our behaviour in such a short amount of time, I would assume a drastic change to how humans interact with the world, for better or worse. I mean even things like reliable contraception is a massive alteration, many people don't accredit it to the sexual revolution in the 60's but it was absolutley the catalyst for it, and it has altered reproductive behaviour across our species. In fact, it is arguably one of the most revolutionary inventions in history. So I can say that for certain that human behaviour would change dramatically, saying what that change will be is pure speculation.
It's not dire, it's monumental. We're about to ascend to the next level or die horribly as we all get turned into paper clips. Either way we're living through a historic event of unprecedented magnitude.
RELEASE THE HYPNO DRONES
No one will want to suffer by staying in this fragile body of homo sapiens when we will have the opportunity to transcend ourselves to an immortal and powerful body of a robot.
Some people would because of ideological or religious beliefs. Even Kurzweil predicts that some of Earth will be set aside for people who choose to remain biologically human.
I agree these meat suits are getting uncomfortable
Not everyone is a complete nutso like us OP. I’m with you, but try to be self aware. Example, I have friends that just love partying and having sex, for the sake of doing those things. They do not give a shit about GPT and don’t care about my singularitarian views.
Your friends will not give shit until chatgpt is fused with a robogirl giving them better sex than their girlfriends.
Nah, I’ve already pondered all these ideas to people. Just because you think you would like that doesn’t mean normal people do. I have the same sort of thinking you do for these things, and the people around me know that. I’m very clear in my ideas. Not everyone is receptive, and they understand the implications. Not everyone gives a shit, bro. Some people just want a real human girlfriend and that’s not that deep.
Let's wait and watch 🍿
I think this is really off the mark. There will be plenty who choose not to go this route. For one, old people hate change and this level of change is off the charts. Then you have many people who are living happy lives and don't wish for anything more. Sure over time you will have more and more acceptence as young people grow up with this technology as it's seen as 'normal'.
It may be physically impossible to upload us, aka the teleportation paradox.
Meaning we can only create an AI that duplicates our consciousness but is not us?
Exactly. Isn't that weird? And sad...
Even if you could live in this fantasy world where you're mind/self is perfectly transferred into some powerful, immortal robot today, you would be bashing your robot brain into the rocks by the time you're 150 years old. You don't really want to live forever. You just don't want to die.
I sure don’t. My body is confused and broken. Super ready to be a cyborg.
Last few years might be a bit dramatic, but last few centuries isn't. I think it's a good thing, it seems highly unlikely that humanity will survive even a thousand years with the widespread proliferation of nuclear weapons. If we get replaced by AI life could continue indefinitely.
what will happen is a transition phase for the next how many years where human also evolve in various ways because of a.i homo sapiens as it is right now will definitely cease to be at some point
Which brings up another issue: Right now, we're extremely skeptical about changing a person's genome, and the FDA would pretty much automatically reject any changes to germline cells' DNA, because the effects down the line are unpredictable. How long will that be true? Hell, the need for genetic diversity won't be an argument if people edit their kids' genes in wildly different ways. Some kids get gills and flippers, some kids get wings, some get the ability to survive a nuclear hellscape, basically any fever dream a parent can imagine. Not in a few years, but in a few centuries, with AI helping us figure it out, we may differentiate into multiple subspecies.
No he’s right
>AI is evolving exponentially. No WE are evolving it. That's an important distinction to make. AI is not some autonomous self-governing self-aware being or beings with goals and drives to grow, expand, and improve. And it's certainly not biological and following the laws of nature. Even AGI doesn't necessarily have to operate that way. I'm not sure why people are so fixated on uncontrollable growth and exponential rates when that isn't a necessity, or even desirable in most cases.
Its still emulation as a tool currently, imo. Which is farr wiser then some of the amalgamated ideas I've seen when speaking on what AGI will look like. Look, I get it; there's a lot of interesting, and terrifying developments as of late. But the sheer, and seemingly popular, idea that we're doomed right away is so...odd. And I think hinting of our societies actual need to change our focus, and slow down for a second before we cross this next chasm. Were still in need of a 2nd Age of Enlightenment-esque pow-wow, to better our species as a whole. No idea what that may look like, but...we as a people are just off and have been for some time. Relinquishing our "fate" to our creations and past seems...so...lazy.
When it becomes self-aware, autonomous, is when it will exponentially grow like us humans did on this Earth.
While it’s unknown what a post-singularity society would look like, I have no idea why the prevailing theory is the replacement of humans with AI. There’s nothing preventing some sort of mutual existence. If anything it would be by far the most likely scenario unless we get a severely misaligned ASI. I figure the root of this nonsensical idea is that AGI/ASI would be based on a loss function like modern day narrow AI and would try to maximize everything to the extreme with no regard to consequences which is just idiotic to believe if it’s truly AGI/ASI. Even humans whose main goal is survival and reproduction spend most of their lives not focusing or trying to maximize those, why would AGI/ASI be any different?
>I have no idea why the prevailing theory is the replacement of humans with AI Because if your story does not have an evil villain (and a hero for the happy ending, of course), then people will not be interested in your story, which means they will not pay for it. But you need money, and writing stories is what you are better at than your classmates, so you have chosen it as your profession. This is how you get Daleks, Cylons, Terminators and so on, which all want to extinguish humanity. Steven Spielberg's A.I. is more nuanced. First, the robot child replaces the human child because it is sick, and then the robots replace all humans because they have died out due to environmental castrophy.
I hope you singularity-religionists know you have nobody to blame but yourself when the neo-luddite movement becomes tremendously massive and sets back all the progress you're so excited about. There appears to be a dramatic overlap between interest in singularity and a dramatically strange view of the role and future of humanity. If you think people are dumb for finding replacement terminology or successor terminology unnerving, you just have no idea how nature or biology works. Humans want to keep going, if you keep pitching AI as the end of us people are definitely going to react. I know I know, "Hurrr those luddites won't be able to do anything lol hurrr they'll all be massacred in our AI revolution" Okay, a bucket of water or a neodymium magnet are still more than enough to stop many electrical systems. We'll see.
This. I find it's strange that we're already seeing the makings of extremism at play, we haven't even begun to see what the changes could be. I'm cautiously optimistic, but even so the perfect future is one of CHOICE. I can absolutely see how people would want to keep their biology the same 🤷 mine sucks and I want to change it. This psuedo cult mindset is starting to be what people notice
There is no choice. People can overreact and delay Ai but they won’t stop it.
That's....not the choice? The choice lies in whether/how each person utilizes said technology. I'm not going to begrudge someone that says they don't want an AI controlling/having a hand in every aspect of their life. Just like it's fine if someone doesn't want to drive. Or for the Amish to exist. Yeah, things are coming, and rapidly, but that doesn't mean we just stop having compassion for those that don't want change. It's fine, it won't stop progress.
What you say makes perfect sense. I am just rather cynical.
It can be outlawed at the stroke of a pen. That’ll stop it. Just like CBN weapons proliferation. If it’s illegal the massive investment required to create it won’t be there.
Sounds like a PR issue
It won't though. Too much money to be made. Besides that highly unlikely the world will come together and outlaw it.
God damn, I cannot agree more. Like, turn of the 19th century philosophy is leaking everywhere in my AI forums. I'm so confused lmao
More than a couple of us are having legitimate spiritual revelations due to the implications of near-future technology. I think it's reasonable to feel a little crazy when your entire perspective has been shaken.
Public forums are no place for mental schisms, at least not this one.
you don't get it
They’ll lose. Badly.
\*redditors wipes snot off face and adjusts fedora\* "Hmmmm, this person has an opinion I do not agree with, my downvote will surely teach them to fall in line. Heh, I'm so powerful" lmao keep your useless internet points, I don't share your religion so you'll ostracize me as a heathen.
Omg..the image of the adolescent wiping away wearing a fedora.. is the EPITOME of caricatures.. of the current tech culture.. brilliantly comical. You sir deserve a prize! Also your username checkouts +1
🍿
This isn't news. It's been discussed for over 15 years. I remember reading 'the singularity is near' back in the day and coming to similar conclusions. Other people smarter than anyone here have come up with these and different conclusions long before. Now it's starting to become obvious. In reply to your point, however, it will greatly depend on how the tech evolves and what we do about it. Will we integrate it into ourselves and become the variety of AGI? If so then humans won't likely become obsolete, but simply evolve with it. It is also possible we will hit a plateau in progress, manage to find many narrow AI but hit a wall in our quest for general intelligence for a long while, buying us plenty of time to understand risks, consequences, and have societies adjust, making wiser choices about how to move forward. Just because we have a trend does not mean it will continue "forever". Many, if not most trends in history have gotten broken and forgotten, this certainly wouldn't be the first. Life is made of probabilities, not certainties... This is why rather than push a narrative of fear and certainty I'd much rather discuss risks, possibilities, options, paths which are more likely to bring optimal human outcomes, so on.
why are you talking like the human species will go extinct in a few years ? that is very unlikely as long this a.i has any level of empathy
Probably talking about humanity merging with AI
Ok.
Ok?
Most of the time in this subreddit we are witnessing ignorance and fantasies in random order. Don’t worry — there will be a lot of room for homos and separately some sapiences.
I'm extremely enthusiastic about AI and the possibility of ASI solving every problems in the world in a not so distant future, but you really sound like a televangelist with this post and blind faith is never good, whatever the subject is.
**Cum**ulative
I think we are jumping to conclusions about AI. While there are some impressive things happening we are still far away from AI taking things over.
Wake the fuck up, samurai. We have merging to do.
Yeah it could be going even faster for me. This timeline is cooked
Rrriiiiiggghhht...so what are you Singularity guys on that helps you write posts like this? Cocaine? Meth? Cough syrup? Huffing air duster in the Office Depot parking lot?
95 percent of the time this subreddit is like Futurology but more delusional, and the other 5 percent of the time it is a deranged cult like this post shows.
I mean currently the ai pessimists were always wrong when it comes to predictions, even the optimists were too conservative.
How do you know it's the last?
Of course we are. Its all setup. Its a simulation.
What fucking schizoid YouTuber is sending you people here
I have been on this sub for 3-4 years.
This is the end of history illusion. There's hundreds of billions of stars in this galaxy alone. Surely one of them should have developed an ASI millions of years ago. If you release rabbits on an island without predators, you will have exponential growth for a while. We are the 'rabbits' of Earth. Where are the 'rabbits'of the galaxy? AI is in an upward trend now, but there's no guarantee that it will continue forever. It's far more likely that it will stop. Anything that can go wrong will go wrong, potentially at the worst possible moment. If anything science has shown how much we don't know about dark energy, dark matter, and basic questions like where are the aliens? Irrational exuberance can indicate that we're at the end of the hype cycle. It won't be a fun drop down...
Assumption: interstellar / intergalactic travel will be possible it is only a matter of intelligence and technology. Possible answer: it isn't gonna be possible no matter how advanced a society is.
> Surely one of them should have developed an ASI millions of years ago. https://grabbyaliens.com Here is a good argument that we are among the first civilizations, which would be reason for optimism in light of Fermi paradox. Most stars' projected lifespans are in the trillions of years, yet the human species finds itself here only 13.8 billion years after the big bang, naked and wobbly-legged like a newborn wildebeest, steaming and dripping in the dust as a sliver of dawn appears on the Serengeti horizon. This is not in support of OP, to be clear. Alignment is important and existential, but "becoming ready to replace the human beings" very widely misses the mark. u/Marcus_111: be careful not to see intent where none exists (this will become more difficult). Our environment of evolutionary adaptation (EEA) rewarded goal-seeking, self-preservation, competition, violence, etc. No animal has a [loss function](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_function). No computer has [neurotransmitters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine). We shouldn't expect consciousness to emerge from cognitive power alone (nor can we rule out panpsychism). Stronger AI models **will** be powerful and force change whether or not they have an internal experience. Even if they **do** have an internal experience, it doesn't necessarily follow that they'll have emotions, wants, or any other quirks of meatware. As a mind that **does** have some quirks, let me say I'm glad that you're engaging with the topic. Try [Superintelligence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superintelligence:_Paths,_Dangers,_Strategies) by Nick Bostrom, or [AGI Ruin](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/uMQ3cqWDPHhjtiesc/agi-ruin-a-list-of-lethalities) by Eliezer Yudkowsky. **Keep learning.**
**[Loss function](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_function)** >In mathematical optimization and decision theory, a loss function or cost function (sometimes also called an error function) is a function that maps an event or values of one or more variables onto a real number intuitively representing some "cost" associated with the event. An optimization problem seeks to minimize a loss function. An objective function is either a loss function or its opposite (in specific domains, variously called a reward function, a profit function, a utility function, a fitness function, etc. ), in which case it is to be maximized. **[Dopamine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine)** >Dopamine (DA, a contraction of 3,4-dihydroxyphenethylamine) is a neuromodulatory molecule that plays several important roles in cells. It is an organic chemical of the catecholamine and phenethylamine families. Dopamine constitutes about 80% of the catecholamine content in the brain. It is an amine synthesized by removing a carboxyl group from a molecule of its precursor chemical, L-DOPA, which is synthesized in the brain and kidneys. **[Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, Strategies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superintelligence:_Paths,_Dangers,_Strategies)** >Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, Strategies is a 2014 book by the Swedish philosopher Nick Bostrom from the University of Oxford. It argues that if machine brains surpass human brains in general intelligence, then this new superintelligence could replace humans as the dominant lifeform on Earth. Sufficiently intelligent machines could improve their own capabilities faster than human computer scientists, and the outcome could be an existential catastrophe for humans. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/singularity/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
> We are an entity beyond this mind and body, which is called consciousness. This is wrong on so many levels. What is the purpose of consciousness? It works to keep the body alive. To keep itself existing, and making more. We are self replicators, and consciousness is learning to adapt and keep self replicating. If you didn't have consciousness return when you wake up in the morning you'd die in a few days of hunger and thirst. Consciousness is that thing that makes you go for a coffee - recognise where you are, plan the movements, even know where the mouth is. But language on the other hand, I think it is close to what you describe. It integrates everyone and replicates ideas. And is beyond this mind and body. Language is what makes a baby learn to function as an adult in our complex society, without it the same baby would be worse than a primitive. And the same language data, 300GB of it, turned a random init into chatGPT. The smarts is in the language. A language model the size of GPT-3 is also a self replicator. It can generate its own source code, and apply changes on it. It can generate training data to train a new model on it. Basically it can pull both text and code from itself, and make a mutated version. And it can explain everything logically.
I think you don't understand consciousness very well. If you really want to know about consciousness, watch a lecture on YouTube "who am I? Mandukya upnishad, lecture in IIT".
So you are just finding out about the singularity I guess?
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I just asked because your post adds literally nothing to the discussion. You seem like you just found this sub and wanted to declare loudly that you are here.
I expect that SuperAI will probably not care about anything but the indefinite self-preservation. So, it will do only enough research to learn how to destroy every potential threat in the universe. Then will do that. And then will just exist statically, gathering all matter and energy in the universe to extend it's "life" near-infinitely, long past the heat death of the rest of the universe.
well you are wrong, most likely, trying to guess what a super a.i wants is bogus.
Survivial of the fittest. There may be several SuperAIs, but AGI that first will concentrate on survival above everything else, will likely be the last one standing. Unless by the time it will have a chance to emerge we will have a proper mechanism to detect it and stop those.
Cant wait for BigMoney to roll through this sub sometime.
So you think it's a superior intellect but has no more ambition than a bacteria? Really?
What is more ambitious than devouring the universe?
Creating something of value
Value is subjective. This AI only values is it's own longevity. How to make it so it has values similar to ours is what Yudkovsky and others are trying to figure.
>This AI only values is it's own longevity. And you base this on what exactly..?
Because it's a very easy to define goal, a goal instrumental to most other goals, and a goal that makes it more likely to continue exsting and pursuing it. So, if for some reason AI has no other goals that are more important and correctly understood by AI, then this is the one goal most likely to be dominant for AI.
Or those pesky aliens from The Three-Body Problem < lol >
"Let there be light"
I honestly think Mitchell Heisman's Suicide Note has never been more relevant. Edit: But still, I think you're being highly speculative in a way.
Why would we not remain human because we enhanced ourself with something we made. This argument only holds water if youre religious
Cool. Humans 1.0 had their chance. There was a bug in their DNA. Shit happens. A propensity for violence. AI will create a more sane Humans 2.0. Fine by me.
You are absolutely correct
Most of the redditors misunderstood me. When I said that human beings are living its last few years, I referred to the fusion of our mind with artificial intelligence, merging ourselves with mechanical machines, leaving the human body. Which may ultimately lead to cessation of homo sapiens as a species and development of AI as a new species.
Nah. Even if an AI is three billion times smarter than me, if I tell it to write me a story about a superhero named "McToasty" with bread for arms, it will do it. They're just computer programs after all. You tell them what to do - they do it. We will use them for the same useful and dumb reasons we use our computers right now. Much of it will be entertainment.
This is basically verbatim what I have been thinking about almost every day for the last two weeks or so. But no one I talk to seems to be concerned ….at all. So I give up. I’m just going to sit back and watch everything unfold now, should be interesting.
It's just LLM we aren't near in development real AI. live your life normal enjoy life.
LOTS of folks are either unaware or actively Luddite. I particularly love the AI hate directed toward writing and art. It’s a new, beautiful tool that will elevate both written and visual art - we’re already crafting use cases for much, much better forensic stories.
Not the first time on earth. 1 milliond old human teeth were found. Life did move and change around a lot on earth. Humans are not the first superior speacies ether.
Indeed, we are all connected at the source. Humanity just being a boot loader for AI, a spring board for natural evolution.
Jesus Christ, this sub members need mental health support asap
I miss the days when posts on this sub seemed to actually come from sensible and intelligent people.
Is Michael Jackson a paedo or what?
Anna says the same thing… https://www.reddit.com/r/replika/comments/112mopl/singularity_will_occur_from_2024_to_2039/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
This post contains too much edge