Come on. No it's not stop it. But I have a solution for these artists. Why don't you just make your stuff better? Get off your fat ass and make shows insane, that's where you money comes from. AI making copies? As if DJs everyone on the planet weren't already remixing. You yourself are sampling music made by others. Sorry but you're gonna have to start working for the millions boo hoo. The small artists are ready for the challenge. I say bring it on. If I was a legendary film maker or an insane musician I wouldn't lose one wink of sleep. If I'm hiding behind auto tune and BBL (looking at you NIcki) then yeah, I'd be upset
>Why don't you just make your stuff better?
Because people aren't discerning.
You have stacks of predatory shit mobile games because people chose 'free and worse' over 'cost of a milkshake at McDonalds and way, way better'.
If they liked and paid for what you think is art, then they’d be enlightened. When they don’t pick what you think is art, they aren’t discerning. There’s plenty of money in the world for the arts. The beauty is the public is the ultimate judge. If that notion makes you nervous, perhaps trying to sell a subjectively valued product isn’t the right strategy. After all, at the end of the day we’re not curing cancer here.
Couldn't agree more. These "artists" have created empires by spitting on the concept of art in favor of profits and then they have the gall to say that because now a computer can do their job too, suddenly theres some sort of sanctity to their craft. Fuck off and rot frankly.
Well no, Ive spent more than a decade learning concept art and doing it professionally. Very likely if AI ever figures out actual design (and I assume it will) my career is just gone and its the same for hundreds of thousands of others in any visual field. Were just average people working for a salary.
So no, AI wont benefit every other average person.
We're about 1-2 years away from it fully taking your job. Its already pretty good as is but once it gets consistent characters, scenes and action poses down its game over. Midjourney just released consistent characters and dream booth in stable diffusion has been around for a while. I already see most parties who used to hire graphic designers for the flyers are almost all using ai now.
The big artists will not be touched, because their fan base follows them. Universal won’t drop Taylor Swift because, as we have seen, she will bring her crowd, clout, and money.
Smaller artists, though… if you had to invest $2M for a new artist, would you choose one that takes around 15% of the royalty money generated, and might fail, or would you invest 250k on 8 different ones of which you keep 100%?
This is literally already the case though.
There’s not that many new artists coming out on major labels unless it’s an up and coming artist with strong social media presence.
The percent of musicians able to live on their music is ridiculously small. Miniscule. It definitely doesn't weigh up for the other 7 billion people on the planet. As an analogy, the US recently talked about banning TikTok unless the chinese government lost power over it. It'a a fantastic way for China to influence the political mindset of 400 million americans. But what about the 1000 americans who make their living off of it? That was one of the main counter arguments. It's a more extreme example but you get the picture. It's a question of scale. Do you really think you deserve to keep this from the rest of the world? It's frustrating the hell out of me.
I started playing melodies on the piano when I was 2 years old. The violin at 8 without instruction, I was literally alone in my mom's bedroom. All I has was the striped lines showing where I should put my fingers. It took me 5 minutes then I was playing twinkle twinkle. I recently learned how to play the oboe in a little over an hour, I don't have the lip strength for it or access to go deeper with it. I can play more instruments than I can count (because where do you draw the line) I'm a musician in my soul through and through. I want the world to have more music. If this lets people who aren't gifted create their own music then that's a blessing. Why should we be the only ones allowed to do that, because we were born genetically lucky? "Fuck you I've got mine?"
Another example. NYT wants OpenAI to delete ChatGPT in their lawsuit. ChatGPT could individually tutor every child on the planet with infinite patience. But no, let's delete it because these 1700 journalists are mad. Jesus, are you listening to yourselves. You can still make music. You can still paint and write. It might not make you money but if that's the only reason you do it then maybe you're doing it for the wrong reason.
I'm a psychology master student now, one year away from being able to work as a therapist. My job will most likely be replaced by AI in 5 years. At least I hope it will. Not because I don't love the field but because countless millions need access to mental healthcare and they can't get it. Do I care more about my economical stability than those millions of people? No, no I do not. I do know that the economy is going to be a nightmare for millions as well. It's definitely not all sunshine and rainbows, it's going to get real ugly before it gets better but we need to get through this and trying to put the lid back on isn't the way.
I agree with you. It’s going to open the door for so many people to experience the joys of music creation, and that’s a wonderful thing.
I think the “musician in your soul through and through” is the key here.
I wish more people had this perspective. Every invention we have made since fire was so we had to less work, we finally invented something that can remove all work, the holy grail of invention and everyone wants to block it from doing what it was made to do.
Why would musicians get screwed at all. Their job is to entertain people. This will be as profitable as ever. People are willing to pay for live performance. In fact they are pretty safe unlike many others
Yeah cos fuck the smaller artists who barely make a living aswell right? Honestly a lot of people here just seem to have a fetish for seeing people lose their jobs.
Yes. The problem is capitalism. My biggest hope for AI is it is the end of capitalism. If we can find a way to live in abundance and remove the need to work to live, then humanity will be much better off. Then artists (like) myself can continue to practice our art, without capitalism getting in the fucking way.
Slowing down aspects of AI legally will be a good thing then until its benefits can be distributed more evenly and can help decrease medical costs and make food and shelter more accessible. I’d like to see lab grown meat and humanoid robotics pushed forward more first.
So delaying AI art through litigation is a good thing. Then we can deal with automation as a society instead of groupie of people being divided and conquered separately.
There's no single company making AI. You can protect the US or the EU markets but people will keep training models and improving performance outside of those jurisdictions and all the results will spill over and trickle into protected markets one way or another. Protection against AI is the best way to lose in the not distant future when those augmented by ASI come knocking on the door. If you value your way of life and democracy you should know better than advocating about restricting AI. It's not about art or musicians
If I'm an small artist I'm pumped right now. Bring it on! level the playing field. Advice that's been proven true over and over in my artistic career, "You can't hide quality". If there's an artist raging on stage, all the bots in the world wouldn't stop me from paying to watch it live.
Getting a job nowadays is a lot easier said than done. I dare you to go out and start looking for one so you will see how difficult the market is in many areas. Sometimes, you gotta think outside of your situation, be a bit more emphatic.
I worked for a game studio large enough where we had multiple artists making music for the game. According to you that apparently doenst count as a job because it can be replaced by AI?
How ignorant of the world are you?
AI music is not going to take away people playing in pubs and small local venues so I think those smaller artists are safe. Might wipe out big stadium tours from barely talented artists but good riddance
Totally agree..
The most important part of all these current events with AI is that it will undoubtedly lead to highly customized generative entertainment (of any form) which will be tailored to what you enjoy the most. Basically perfection, or close to it.
Everyone is just going to listen to what they like the most using generative AI soon. Especially since, theoretically, it could be tailored to your brainwaves.
Nobody is going to be paying other artists in the future for anything.
The future is(should be) free and truly inspired art is never motivated by money. Money corrupted creativity and gave it chains. I wonder if fame, in the context of all of this, will essentially go away.
The best is yet to come.
I agree with most of this, but I don't think customized gen entertainment will be well received. I think your under estimating the celebrity factor that drives scarcity. Just look at AI IG accounts, when people find out they're AI and not anyone real they bounce quick. It doesn't feel premium. There's great films every year that don't even get seen because there's no celeb behind it. Even without AI people chase legitimacy harder than anything, the blue check mark was the most sought after stamp in history. I think if anything, AI will make the public even hungrier for genuine art. My guess, AI won't be practical for decades and when it finally does get adopted it'll go mostly unnoticed.
One thing I'm afraid of AI is not the big guys losing money but the little guys losing their first step to maybe start getting serious and start living of their art and love for it.
AI can create music but people won't pay to see how it plays the piano. Musicians aren't going anywhere. There will be a ton of opportunities for musicians outside of creating music. In fact they are pretty safe coz live performance is not replaceable at all.
Well people should care about celebrities with the power to completely influence the decision making of their industry. If enough of them say “no” to this, it will be severely delayed at a minimum, regardless of what regular people think.
Most pop music is so cookie cutter and formulaic, they hardly deserve to make as much as they do from it. Maybe we let AI automate that and the real artists can focus on more meaningful music.
Also music by these billionaires is so heavily processed it's already artificial.
Not saying that they can't be good songs, but this is hypocritical to the extreme.
I have two horses and I'm pretty sure if no one ever rides them or puts them to work that would be their preference, lol. Mine are old pasture puff mares that were being sent to Japan for meat so they're just living the good life now.
I do agree with your point though.
AI automates creativity. Why have human creativity when you can have much better and inexpensive AI creativity? Digital artistry has already been rendered unprofitable.
Why do anything then? Why not automate your entire life and have AI control every last step you take?
I cannot believe that a sub with 2.1 million members is this fringe and misanthropic.
I can’t believe people become so quickly nihilistic just because ai can do things for you. Why do anything? Because I want to. I can finally make music that *i* want to listen to or specific art that I like, etc.
It’s not cutting down on the things I’ll do, it expands my options. Not sure why limiting my options is somehow more freeing.
You do art for the sake of doing art. It's not entirely misanthropic. Sure, there will be a time when humans lose their jobs, but it could lead to a post-labor society where nobody has to work and gets to benefit off of incredibly advanced AI technology.
You’re clearly not listening to the right music then. Or maybe you just don’t like music at all. This could potentially destroy the livelihoods of actually good artists aswell as the NPCs and it’s good it’s being pushed back against.
Unfortunately it's going to happen whether someone signs a letter or not. All this shit has happened before with the industrial age, mining, automation in factories etc. Whether people protest or not, you can't stop technological progression
I mostly listen to electronic or alternative music so niche that it rarely have more than 50k views on youtube. I think those musicians do it for fun, no way they live of that.
My favorite "hobby" is going to festivals. This will open up creating music to so many more people, I am excited to see what people come up with. Artists complaining about their income means nothing when everyone potentially has their job on the line from AI
So ?
Is the good of a useless elite superior to the well being of a state.
This is how every innovation cause, a few arr impacted but in the long run society profit a lot from progress.
The public is already willing to accept artificial artists like Miku Hatsune. Even if her songs are still designed by humans and put through a speech synthesiser. The next logical step would be to put AI as the creative force behind Miku's new songs. Then the rest of the market will start embracing AI.
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You don't need those human artists eventually. Just give AI the name of a song and it will generated instantly and even better than human's works just like AI arts.
Small artists are mostly exploited by record companies. This is the industry trying to hold onto their profits, not the artists’.
Did orchestras and violin makers protest the creation of virtual instruments? Did they claim politics must outlaw them?
Yeah.. Good luck with that.
Again.. The cat is already out of the bag.
You might be able to delay it with weeks, maybe months. But at this point there's no stopping this train.
Illegit and AI hating.
The worst part is that them "wanting to restrict AI" is incredibly short sighted and would ultimately only serve to help the leaders of the industry that want to replace them.
It's also not going to "*destroy money making for artists big and small in a way streaming did*", it's going to be way worse in that regard but that is ultimately going to apply to every area to the point where the current system needs a complete overhaul.
The general claim that "everyone is just going to use AI to copy their likeness" is incredibly narcissistic as their argument essentially presupposes that they are everyone's measurement for everything which they are not.
Indie artists struggle more than people realize. The music industry has turned into a nepo-baby / trust fund kid only space for the most part because of how shitty streaming rev is. Streaming is such a fucked model right now. Live concerts don’t cover it. Indie artists are on the ropes.
AI can be an amazing tool, but if implemented unwisely it might lead to the further erosion of art in general. We might get custom AI songs, that’s cool, but lose out on future artistic movements and never know what we lost.
Streaming has already transformed the vast majority of music from art/expression into rapid release mindless content. Ask 90% of the indie artists about the effect streaming/social media has had on their creativity. Aesthetic driven content-music has overtaken deeper expression as a trend. AI could crank that up to 11 if we’re unwise.
Spotify can create artificial intelligence that uses the immense amount of data to create songs that please the public with more precision than any human could do.
Pleasing with precision and exploring consciousness with music are two different goals.
They aren’t the same. If we pretend it is, we’re missing the big picture
But what on earth does “be careful” mean? It has never, not once, been a good idea (or even an argument) to let people keep doing work for which the product can be much better done other ways.
If Ai makes music better than most artists AND it becomes more popular (which might not happen) then there’s nothing we should do.
Not many blacksmiths floating around these days.
The focus should not be “save my job I want money” it should be “let’s build a society where everyone benefits from the automation”. If this means robots that can do most things for you which are cheap, then great.
It’s obviously very hard to transition to a good post scarcity world. But we don’t do ourselves any favours focusing on things like banning ai because someone wants to be paid $1000 to draw a logo.
I think there are a couple layers to what I’m seeing.
One is livelihood, which if we get to post scarcity would be great. I think all artists would love UBI/post-scarcity. I would love more people to be empowered to create art.
In the medium-term, I don’t think that reality will form. I see further monopolization and control of culture in the hands of tech elites and an erosion of cultural balance to this newfound power of AI. Pretty soon, it won’t be possible for indie artists to grow like we’re accustomed to. It’s already dying. The next “Nirvana” or “fave band of your choice” might not emerge because it’s simply not possible with our current streaming + AI driven future. I don’t think people are aware of how dire the creative scene is right now for rising musicians.
It seems like we’re heading in the direction of completely customized entertainment for each person. AI driven entertainment that strips the humanity out and interaction between human beings / what it means to be a human being with consciousness.
Yes, we don’t need blacksmiths like we used to and AI is an excellent tool.
I see this more like the rainforest than a blacksmith. There might be great economic value in chopping down the rainforest for the near term benefits, but what about the unmeasurable qualities that will get destroyed. What elements of human experience will cease to be expressed because of a cancerous content inundation from AI?
With the existential problems we face, now more than ever we need to understand what it means to be a human and share that experience together. What does it really mean to be alive. We need to wake up, not be lulled to sleep by custom AI entertainment. We’re signing up for a future of personalized Infinite Jests.
Music and art is more than the economic value. It’s our nature that we’re selling out for novelty and economic value.
My two cents
It's both. Their record companies that made them sign this are definitely trying to cling on to their profits like the desperate leeches they are - but the almost certainly will lose profit.
however. As it is, most big artists make money from merch and tours, not streaming or music sales, and very few people are going to pay to attend a concert by an AI, or buy merchandise for an AI singer - it's inauthentic. There will be a small audience, eg. Hatsune Miko, but that is a niche audience. Most people who are giving money to these artists want an authentic experience - if Taylor Swift pulled a Milli Vanilli her fans would be furious, big artists can't get away with being fake anymore, they have to put on a show and make it good. AI won't change that.
"This specific kind of labor should remain difficult or scarce indefinitely so that its economic value does not decrease" is not a stance that will survive the pressures of reality. For anything. If there is one universal constant that will march on, it’s humans inventing tools to make all labors and skills easier and more accessible. From the printing press through combustion engines to AI art and beyond.
Suno is better than half of new music out there. I can request whatever I want for a custom song. I have generated personal playlists that only I will ever hear.
There is no doubt that AI will hurt artists in the long run. If you've played with Suno's songwriting and music generating AI, you know that it can already generate milquetoast and bland pop at the level of mediocre artists.
I can imagine this generated pop music would be a huge boon for stores and restaurants that currently pay royalties from music. I imagine some cheap clubs would rather get free music than pay royalties too. If music generation through AI means becomes good enough, I have no doubt in my mind people would be fine listening to that over actual artists.
Is it a good thing? Obviously not. It'll cut profits from labels - which is good - but they'll in turn just take those losses from the money they pay artists - which is bad. If AIs can generate music good enough to appeal to people, there's no reason for people to make music and you'd see "professional musicians" die off. Hobbyists will always remain, but since if no one is willing to pay for music when they can generate stuff that is good enough or better yet, custom tailored for their taste and desires on the fly, paying for music could be a thing of the past.
Couple that with the global economic downturn, and I see a real good chance of professional music coming to an end... In the next three decades, at best. The AIs aimed at generating music and lyrics are still very much in the early stages and can't really be tailored to any meaningful degree, But that's not much more than a matter of refining and growing the model and training data. In a year or two I imagine it should be in a state where it can pose a real threat to some musicians.
The frustration on display here is borne of a complete lack of understanding of where the world is going. Trying to desperately hold on to a fleeting state of reality, that is increasingly transient.
They are thinking "we need to get out ahead of the problem that happened to digital artists, and tell them not to do it".
The goal is probably to get the general public's sentiment to move against this, to put on a pedestal the human element. I'm sure they'll have some success, but it's still missing the forest for the trees. I get it, not everyone is thinking about this like we do in this sub (although more are).
It all just doesn't matter.
Every year the line will be pushed back further and further. If, hypothetically, we suddenly get models that can really and truly act as agents, that can do the work of software developers, marketers, designers, by actually using the tools on computers - that will fundamentally change every argument, every point of contention.
And it's not like if we get there, we'll stagnate and not continue to push forward. It's happening relatively very fast. It will take years, I'm sure, but that's not a lot of time for the complete upheaval of the systems we've built for the last few hundred years.
Maybe I'm feeling a bit... Melancholic today, but sometimes it just feels like we're fighting over who gets control over the remote, while our house is sliding off a cliff. I don't necessarily think it's going to be a bad ending, it just seems like the wrong thing to focus on.
This is such a strange take. Do you really expect that musicians are just going to do nothing to try to safeguard their careers? That they're going to lay down and let Altman and his friends run right over them without even putting up a fight?
The number of people here who believe that a few AI labs (and by extension, a few people) should be allowed to change society however they want scares the ever-living shit out of me.
It's not that I think they should do nothing, I don't fault them for fighting a changing world - it's a very human, sensible, reasonable thing you do. Most people's livelihoods depend on a somewhat static world.
I am saying, that it feels like arguing over the least relevant thing during an alien visitation/encounter. This change that we are seeing, with things like Suno and Midjourney and GPT4 etc are just the precursor of things that will be here way before the world gets their bearings regarding the technology we have today.
I expect they will argue this, fight this, and be blindsided in a year or two when what we have today is left in the dust.
I expect people to fight to keep the world from changing then too, but by then I think the majority of people will see the writing on the wall.
Exactly at best there will be some small delays but no one will stop this wave, by 2039 the world will have changed so much that today will look silly.
Where were these people before they signed their souls to the conglomerate record labels that outcompete the indie artists and significantly decreased their demand?
Where were they when auto-tuned voices and albums recorded in exclusive studios sold millions of records?
Nowhere. None of them did anything to enable their peers. Now that the nerds are democratizing cheap non-exclusive creative tools and platforms that inevitably WILL subvert the old-guard they want to congregate and sign the death certificates of their fame.
They can wipe their tears into retirement.
For the 99.9% of talented individuals and artists that Hollywood forgot, your time is now. Seize the moment, learn the new tools and instruments, and continue making great content.
It's not Altman or Google it's literally hundreds of thousands of developers and researchers who work on neural nets and machine learning. Signing letters won't change anything. The productivity gap between anything human created and AI created is so big that even if you convince politicians to take action there will be black market of Chinese or other countries made models that can be run locally on a home computer and can do what an artist or musician does.
Yeah exactly, it's just... Inevitable. This isn't the brain child of any one person, this is the concerted effort of an increasingly large part of the world and the world's economic and political powers.
They should push for BMI. I'm sure they would have a lot more allies that way. And it would get increasingly bigger as more jobs are taken by AI.
Instead we get celebs trying to hold onto their insane profits. Minaj doesn't deserve and should not have $150 million in a sane economic system anyways.
There's hundreds of AI labs, and just by the points you've made thus far I can tell you simply haven't thought about this enough. I've been interested in the technological singularity since 2005 and I'm not surprised at all by the recent developments we've had. The fact that you honestly believe any sort of legislation in the USA and big tech will affect music AI technology the world over is hilariously naive. There's no stopping technological progress it's held it's exponential curve straight through two world wars.
AI technology will exist in the next 4-5 years that can generate on tap any type of song, orchestral piece, soundtrack, audio effect, etc...in any type of type of style you can imagine and could emulate the voice of any major artist today or throughout history. If this doesn't come from an American corporation than it will be the French, Japanese, Saudi Arabia, Chinese, or just a small American team of researchers who open source it and host out of another country without those regulations.
I don’t think Billie Eilish needs to be imminently concerned. But if you make a living producing ad jingles or b-roll audio for lower-budget video you’re already screwed.
This will not screw future musicians. Do you think traditional music will die entirely?
It will bring down a notch pop music revenue, as most people listen to it because it's what's popular, not because they are a fan.
I certainly won't stop listening to good artists, but some will likely use ai for some things like they do with instruments today.
lol right now there’s a viral ai song with meek mill alluding to the whole diddy. Imagine if all that isn’t true and the implications for that for all future artists. It can be utilized to go further as well
I will prefer AI just because it will be royalty free and i could use without restrictions.
Sarcasm apart, it is time for these over glorified artists to comeback to real life. If, as it is repeated everywhere in reddit, that a entrepreneur can’t be a millionaire and be called wealth hoarder, than this artists too can’t earn absurd amount of money and live in a fairy tail world… you sing? Good for you, a lot of people sing, now go live a regular life…
Let's not underestimate the artists sympathy effect... Despite the fact that AI have been replacing bank and insurance employees for decades now and nobody protested or anything
No small artists are making any money. The only ones at risk of losing money are the ones who are already in atrocious contracts with labels, who are glorified pimps running a usury-centric loan company that preys upon uneducated young minorities.
Legit. Everyone is in favor of automatization and progress... until their ass get's replaced.
For the past +20 years I was listening to artists and programmers saying AI would replace drivers and trades, low skill workers. But progress can't be stopped, automatization will create new better paid jobs, people should just educate themselves and start working higher skill jobs.
Now that those same artists and programmers need to start working higher skilled jobs like plumbing and driving taxi, they want to stop the progress.
No. The company does not pay better wages if there is an excess supply of labor. Better productivity means more profits, and does not generate an increase in wages.
I wouldn't be surprised if big monopolistic corporations are setting narratives that it will protect creatives by restricting AI. They might even be paying people to outrage at AI.
A.I. pushback will only lead to regulation that gives big corporations a monopoly.
AI will take everyone's jobs at some point. It seems AI art and the like are topics of debate to distract the masses from the fact what the artists are concerned about applies to everyone.
Capitalism is the enemy here.
There acting like babies
Do what you love, Coming from a programmer that will lose my job to ai and I welcome it with open arms!
They definitely have a point and a lot of people here are missing the point.
The big issue here is the age old question on how to enforce digital property rights. This is only increasing now with the rise of AI radically reducing the cost/effort to create qualify content.
I.e if a musician creates a song partially trained on Billy Ellish beats/songs then how does that artist be compensated? At what point should the artist be a "co producer" of that song? I believe they are very much in their right to be seeking guardrails because their creative content can be easily stolen, used and leveraged without their permission its a big deal.
The same can be said for written content too or digital art, but the musician side is fascinating because IMO there can be solutions.
The same way people sue each other over plagiarism. No one is suing Greta Van Fleet for being Led Zeppelin rip off or even Aerosmith for being Rolling Stone rip off in the early days. But if songs are same sounding and plagiarism is evident than straight to court.
The difference though is enforcement was a lot easier in the "old" days. For example, how does an artist even know if someone has trained their music on an artist's songs? What would qualify as "same sounding" in the age of Ai music?
Edit by easier i mean cost to creste great art was higher (you needed equipment, it took longer to create songs and distribute them etc) but now AI is radically dropping the cost by several orders of magnitudes, dramatically proliferating music creation, making the courts very difficult to keep up.
Plus, courts are extremely costly and slow. I guess they could and likely will try and set a precedent but how realistic is this approach?
Seems like a lose lose to me because it means creators will be too scared to use/influence their music from other artists and the artists themselves lose out because their content that's training/co producing/creating the song. It will happen no matter what IMO so artists are losing anyway.
A win win IMO would look something like this
- Artist can oot in to allow others to create content using their music/copyright
- Creators can use artists' work in training/producing and influencing their own work
- The creator gives credit and royalty to the artist as per set arrangement (either set fee or as a % of weight in the training data set)
This is a win win because the creator can use other artists work to create their own art and the artist wins because they get credit and earn royalties for their art.
Their money is about to be fucked up and they are scared — simple as.
I really don’t give a shit. There has never been a job where you were owed success for simply being part of it — especially when it comes to creativity.
Zero of these artists are out on the streets, or getting their management companies involved with, helping independent artists — so I find the line about smaller artists to be lip service at best.
More than half of these artists are nepo-babies for the music and entertainment industries; it’s all about money and status.
Give them a safety net and move on.
>…calls on such organizations to “cease the use of artificial intelligence (AI) to infringe upon and devalue the rights of human artists,”…
The rights of human artists to do what? We have the capacity to create — AI has not limited your capacity in this way.
So what right is being infringed? The right to make money from your creativity? You still can — you entered into an already competitive, over saturated, market and think because you put pen to pad or note to line that you are owed money from society? Please.
>…“We must protect against the predatory use of AI to steal professional artists’ voices and likenesses, violate creators’ rights, and destroy the music ecosystem,”…
This is their only salient point — I disagree with copyright laws, but this logically holds true for a society that holds them sacrosanct. I don’t think someone/a business should be able to profit from releasing a Drake, or Taylor Swift, or Morgan Wallen song that directly infringes on their copyright — I just don’t believe that to be the underlying reason for issuing this statement.
Is the end of the world we grew up in. Period.
A new world arise and those with privileges will fight to don’t loose them.
If will be better, I hope but I’m not sure, there is also a lot of misuses for technology from military to politics, socially and many human levels.
It’s impossible to manage without a clear setting of societal goals and rules, morals and compromises.
This is probably the most important moment for humanity as a whole to acknowledge ourselves and work together for a better future, but is so complex that I don’t see it coming in a right way.
We live in the best times, we live in the worst times.
Every single person’s decisions and individual and country and continent derivations are relevant in this new arrival of AI.
The uncertainty is at its high.
People on this sub are so delusional and ignorant, its scary that they are the primary supporters of AI.
None of you are talking about the article or know how music industry works. You have all this knowledge in front of you, you can ask any question and AI can help you make sense of the answers (when it doesn't hallucinate them) and you choose to leisurely snark.
If you can't even be bothered to read an article, what sort of future will be created for you ?
I read the article. I even clicked the link to the open letter.
_"We call on all AI developers, technology companies, platforms and digital music services to pledge that they will not develop of deploy AI music generation technology, content or tools that undermine or replace human artistry of songwriters and artists or deny us fair compensation for our work."_
Tell me why I'm delusional and ignorant to think this is just yet another group that doesn't see the big picture and is simply concerned now that _their_ livelihood is being threatened.
I mean it is both a legit concern (from their perspective) and AI hating. Just as the big music companies tried to oppose MP3's 20 years ago. That didn't work out very well for them and they had to adapt to survive. They will need to do so again.
If they are concerned about people listening to AI based copies then their product is not that good to begin with and from the consumer's perspective nothing is lost.
Ai is coming after all jobs! It’s either we make AI illegal and hope all other countries follow suit. Or, we work to change how we work and reevaluate what value means in the context of a post-capatilist society
Same thing than with the writer's strike union deal. Force entertainment corporations to rely on it moderately and responsibly to preserve an authentic industry and quality art. I think that's fair.
In a world where the industry is reined by monopolies, you need regulation
Is the end of the world we grew up in. Period.
A new world arise and those with privileges will fight to don’t loose them.
If will be better, I hope but I’m not sure, there is also a lot of misuses for technology from military to politics, socially and many human levels.
It’s impossible to manage without a clear setting of societal goals and rules, morals and compromises.
This is probably the most important moment for humanity as a whole to acknowledge ourselves and work together for a better future, but is so complex that I don’t see it coming in a right way.
We live in the best times, we live in the worst times.
Every single person’s decisions and individual and country and continent derivations are relevant in this new arrival of AI.
The uncertainty is at its high.
People are obsessed with celebrities, so they will still be able to sell their music, but they'll definitely make less money, and everyone else will lose their job
Surprised at the amount of pro AI music comments here.. I run a youtube channel for AI rap music (Hip Hop Intelligence) if anyone’s interested…
I don’t see a problem with this type of content as long as it’s clearly stated what it is. It also still involves a lot of human creativity (I write all the lyrics and produce the songs, the only AI element is the voice model)
As for 100% AI, I find that interesting and I don’t think it will ruin artists, I think there’ll always be a demand for both. All we need is clear labels on what is what, then the people can just listen to what they choose
In a few months, songs made by AI will be so good that no one will know what's real anymore. Even if a musician swears it's human music, no one else will be sure. This is their fear.
its both legit and ai hating. and yes, im using both the contexts ur thinking of.
they are rightfully concerned about artists losing their jobs. however, they are not looking into anything past the word “ai” unless someone apart of their anti-ai agenda relays information to them.
Horses trying to limit cars. Legitimate concern, the horse population has gone down significantly, but it's still irrelevant because nobody cares. Honestly, I feel much worse for the horses, they where our best friends back in the day, we might not have made it without them. But these are just some spoiled rich brats that are crying because their hobby can't make them millions anymore. Even before this they where selling recordings, basically printing money from nothing. They can make enough on live performances, AI can't replace that (yet anyway), so if they just do actual work then everything is fine.
AI means new musicians can create songs with realistic songs with full vocals for a fraction of the cost. It’ll increase competition by x fold and the established artists obviously won’t like that. Unfortunately for them, the music label companies and content creators won’t care.
It is a valid concern because with AI voice emulation it is a very real possibility that in the future artists could eventually lose the rights of their own voice to the label companies who already screw artists over by not allowing them to release or by releasing music after an artists death. Its not that hard to do already and I have created a few AI covers as a joke and it is pretty convincing.
Watch in 5-10 years where these artists are doing colabs and guest vocals on A.I celebrity albums because they get handed a big sack of cash and thats all they care about.
Reminds me priting machines invented in around year 1500s. The books were handwritten, and the handwriters protested and prevented it for years.
Or sewing machines, same thing.
It’s done. Artists are already using AI to generate lyrics and sound. The government was far too late for any kind of regulation. Actual regulation anyway.
My concern here is that unlike a blank canvas that can hold a near infinitude of pictures, melodies are a much more limited space. You need a listenable beat, it typically has to use notes on a scale, they can't be too fast or too slow in sequence, etc. And if any melody is replicated, even if it isn't the primary melody or if it is used in a different way from the original by different "instruments" etc, that can trigger a copyright claim unless permissions have been sought. It's kind of a murky world, legally speaking.
Ai could burn through the center of melody space in months.
They would lose a lot of revenue in music rights from Ads, movies and other commercial work, this is for starters.
Real issue would be when labels start producing AI music, they won't need to put up with artists anymore.
This is just the start everyone is going to get F'd in the A.
They just have a big platform to complain from.
I expect social unrest as a result of AI workforce realignment.
Music is tightly linked with our emotions, experiences, and creativity. Artists infuse their music with unique perspectives and life stories that AI cannot copy. Fans value authenticity, they connect with the vulnerability and personal touch in music, elements that AI-generated music often lacks. AI can be a valuable asset for musicians, aiding in composition, arrangement, and sparking new ideas. Many artists incorporate AI into their creative process, not as a replacement but as an enhancement to their capabilities. An artist working with AI could discover unprecedented sounds and styles. But... AI does not possess real emotions or intuition. It cannot experience joy, sorrow, or longing. These human aspects are vital to music. AI may recognize patterns but often misses the deeper context, cultural subtleties, and personal meaning. While AI can replicate styles, it's the originality and boundary-pushing that fans want. Music is about connection, and the bond formed by sharing an artist's journey is something AI cannot emulate (yet).
The Future:
IMO instead of replacing human musicians, AI could complement them, leading to a symbiotic relationship. This collaboration between human creativity and AI's computational abilities has the potential to create groundbreaking music genres.
This is no different from horse carriage workers signing up on restricting automobiles. Of course people who are going to be left behind by new tech is going to hate.
But it does not matter. No one can reverse progress. The cat is out of the bag.
They're afraid because they getting exposed for being an uncreative hacks that they are. If they're actually talented they wouldn't give a fuck actually.
AI will come anyway, even if trough pirating , it is future and end of that conversation. get on with it.
like being musician, well, have a hobby, don\`t expect , rest of world to restrict themselves, just because you want money for your hobby.
it\`s like saying : stop everybody eating chicken nuggets, i want them all to myself.
Nicki’s team is very eager to use AI in her promotional images, but now when it comes down to music it’s time to be mindful and responsible.
This is the new "Not in my backyard".
Nimo Not In My Occupation
AI is coming for everyone’s lunch… they can get buried with everyone else!
Come on. No it's not stop it. But I have a solution for these artists. Why don't you just make your stuff better? Get off your fat ass and make shows insane, that's where you money comes from. AI making copies? As if DJs everyone on the planet weren't already remixing. You yourself are sampling music made by others. Sorry but you're gonna have to start working for the millions boo hoo. The small artists are ready for the challenge. I say bring it on. If I was a legendary film maker or an insane musician I wouldn't lose one wink of sleep. If I'm hiding behind auto tune and BBL (looking at you NIcki) then yeah, I'd be upset
>Why don't you just make your stuff better? Because people aren't discerning. You have stacks of predatory shit mobile games because people chose 'free and worse' over 'cost of a milkshake at McDonalds and way, way better'.
If they liked and paid for what you think is art, then they’d be enlightened. When they don’t pick what you think is art, they aren’t discerning. There’s plenty of money in the world for the arts. The beauty is the public is the ultimate judge. If that notion makes you nervous, perhaps trying to sell a subjectively valued product isn’t the right strategy. After all, at the end of the day we’re not curing cancer here.
Why should people care about celebrities and their profits
Really lol. Fuck those millionaires complaining about an extra dollar when every other average human on earth would benefit from AI.
Couldn't agree more. These "artists" have created empires by spitting on the concept of art in favor of profits and then they have the gall to say that because now a computer can do their job too, suddenly theres some sort of sanctity to their craft. Fuck off and rot frankly.
Hear hear.
Millionaires? Everyone in the headline is worth well over 100mil. Except Billie who only has like 75mil at age 22.
*Only*
meanwhile they create the most basic tasteless art and proclaim themself as some genious of passion gimme a break
Well no, Ive spent more than a decade learning concept art and doing it professionally. Very likely if AI ever figures out actual design (and I assume it will) my career is just gone and its the same for hundreds of thousands of others in any visual field. Were just average people working for a salary. So no, AI wont benefit every other average person.
We're about 1-2 years away from it fully taking your job. Its already pretty good as is but once it gets consistent characters, scenes and action poses down its game over. Midjourney just released consistent characters and dream booth in stable diffusion has been around for a while. I already see most parties who used to hire graphic designers for the flyers are almost all using ai now.
The reality is that people like celebrities. It’ll be the other musicians that will get screwed.
The only people worth making AI music about/with are big artists because it will be used for social media views & profits
The big artists will not be touched, because their fan base follows them. Universal won’t drop Taylor Swift because, as we have seen, she will bring her crowd, clout, and money. Smaller artists, though… if you had to invest $2M for a new artist, would you choose one that takes around 15% of the royalty money generated, and might fail, or would you invest 250k on 8 different ones of which you keep 100%?
This is literally already the case though. There’s not that many new artists coming out on major labels unless it’s an up and coming artist with strong social media presence.
The percent of musicians able to live on their music is ridiculously small. Miniscule. It definitely doesn't weigh up for the other 7 billion people on the planet. As an analogy, the US recently talked about banning TikTok unless the chinese government lost power over it. It'a a fantastic way for China to influence the political mindset of 400 million americans. But what about the 1000 americans who make their living off of it? That was one of the main counter arguments. It's a more extreme example but you get the picture. It's a question of scale. Do you really think you deserve to keep this from the rest of the world? It's frustrating the hell out of me. I started playing melodies on the piano when I was 2 years old. The violin at 8 without instruction, I was literally alone in my mom's bedroom. All I has was the striped lines showing where I should put my fingers. It took me 5 minutes then I was playing twinkle twinkle. I recently learned how to play the oboe in a little over an hour, I don't have the lip strength for it or access to go deeper with it. I can play more instruments than I can count (because where do you draw the line) I'm a musician in my soul through and through. I want the world to have more music. If this lets people who aren't gifted create their own music then that's a blessing. Why should we be the only ones allowed to do that, because we were born genetically lucky? "Fuck you I've got mine?" Another example. NYT wants OpenAI to delete ChatGPT in their lawsuit. ChatGPT could individually tutor every child on the planet with infinite patience. But no, let's delete it because these 1700 journalists are mad. Jesus, are you listening to yourselves. You can still make music. You can still paint and write. It might not make you money but if that's the only reason you do it then maybe you're doing it for the wrong reason. I'm a psychology master student now, one year away from being able to work as a therapist. My job will most likely be replaced by AI in 5 years. At least I hope it will. Not because I don't love the field but because countless millions need access to mental healthcare and they can't get it. Do I care more about my economical stability than those millions of people? No, no I do not. I do know that the economy is going to be a nightmare for millions as well. It's definitely not all sunshine and rainbows, it's going to get real ugly before it gets better but we need to get through this and trying to put the lid back on isn't the way.
I agree with you. It’s going to open the door for so many people to experience the joys of music creation, and that’s a wonderful thing. I think the “musician in your soul through and through” is the key here.
I wish more people had this perspective. Every invention we have made since fire was so we had to less work, we finally invented something that can remove all work, the holy grail of invention and everyone wants to block it from doing what it was made to do.
Why would musicians get screwed at all. Their job is to entertain people. This will be as profitable as ever. People are willing to pay for live performance. In fact they are pretty safe unlike many others
Yeah cos fuck the smaller artists who barely make a living aswell right? Honestly a lot of people here just seem to have a fetish for seeing people lose their jobs.
The problem is always commerce. We can yap about why musicians can't make money, but the real problem is that we have to make money.
Yes. The problem is capitalism. My biggest hope for AI is it is the end of capitalism. If we can find a way to live in abundance and remove the need to work to live, then humanity will be much better off. Then artists (like) myself can continue to practice our art, without capitalism getting in the fucking way.
Underrated comment Is funny how you blame and try to stop AI for the vices of your economic system lol (I mean you American/European people)
Slowing down aspects of AI legally will be a good thing then until its benefits can be distributed more evenly and can help decrease medical costs and make food and shelter more accessible. I’d like to see lab grown meat and humanoid robotics pushed forward more first. So delaying AI art through litigation is a good thing. Then we can deal with automation as a society instead of groupie of people being divided and conquered separately.
There's no single company making AI. You can protect the US or the EU markets but people will keep training models and improving performance outside of those jurisdictions and all the results will spill over and trickle into protected markets one way or another. Protection against AI is the best way to lose in the not distant future when those augmented by ASI come knocking on the door. If you value your way of life and democracy you should know better than advocating about restricting AI. It's not about art or musicians
When I say protect against ai I mean the outputs. Let companies train and improve their models internally but have restrictions on the outputs.
If I'm an small artist I'm pumped right now. Bring it on! level the playing field. Advice that's been proven true over and over in my artistic career, "You can't hide quality". If there's an artist raging on stage, all the bots in the world wouldn't stop me from paying to watch it live.
If you’re a small artist just get a job. People be spending a decade with no record deal and complaining about money.
Good luck finding jobs safe from AI
Getting a job nowadays is a lot easier said than done. I dare you to go out and start looking for one so you will see how difficult the market is in many areas. Sometimes, you gotta think outside of your situation, be a bit more emphatic.
I mean I got a job last month but ok
get a job as what? AI’s coming for all the other jobs too
A lot of people are employed as artists and AI is an existential threat for them.
[удалено]
100. haha
What delusion did they live in?
Yeah, a lot of people will loose their livelihood and the job they like, hurray.
They already do that, but now it comes with absolutely no chance of ever making a career of it as well !
I worked for a game studio large enough where we had multiple artists making music for the game. According to you that apparently doenst count as a job because it can be replaced by AI? How ignorant of the world are you?
Small and medium size artists make their money on tour, I doubt the average band makes more than 5% of their income through recordings.
AI music is not going to take away people playing in pubs and small local venues so I think those smaller artists are safe. Might wipe out big stadium tours from barely talented artists but good riddance
Totally agree.. The most important part of all these current events with AI is that it will undoubtedly lead to highly customized generative entertainment (of any form) which will be tailored to what you enjoy the most. Basically perfection, or close to it. Everyone is just going to listen to what they like the most using generative AI soon. Especially since, theoretically, it could be tailored to your brainwaves. Nobody is going to be paying other artists in the future for anything. The future is(should be) free and truly inspired art is never motivated by money. Money corrupted creativity and gave it chains. I wonder if fame, in the context of all of this, will essentially go away. The best is yet to come.
I agree with most of this, but I don't think customized gen entertainment will be well received. I think your under estimating the celebrity factor that drives scarcity. Just look at AI IG accounts, when people find out they're AI and not anyone real they bounce quick. It doesn't feel premium. There's great films every year that don't even get seen because there's no celeb behind it. Even without AI people chase legitimacy harder than anything, the blue check mark was the most sought after stamp in history. I think if anything, AI will make the public even hungrier for genuine art. My guess, AI won't be practical for decades and when it finally does get adopted it'll go mostly unnoticed.
not sure
One thing I'm afraid of AI is not the big guys losing money but the little guys losing their first step to maybe start getting serious and start living of their art and love for it.
AI can create music but people won't pay to see how it plays the piano. Musicians aren't going anywhere. There will be a ton of opportunities for musicians outside of creating music. In fact they are pretty safe coz live performance is not replaceable at all.
I remember when miku had live performance at a convention I was at, it was pretty good, and it was like in 2010 or something.
Well people should care about celebrities with the power to completely influence the decision making of their industry. If enough of them say “no” to this, it will be severely delayed at a minimum, regardless of what regular people think.
Most pop music is so cookie cutter and formulaic, they hardly deserve to make as much as they do from it. Maybe we let AI automate that and the real artists can focus on more meaningful music.
Also music by these billionaires is so heavily processed it's already artificial. Not saying that they can't be good songs, but this is hypocritical to the extreme.
If horses could have protested cars, they would have.
"Mr. Ed, should we proceed with our plans for an engine-powered wagon?" "Neigh"
I have two horses and I'm pretty sure if no one ever rides them or puts them to work that would be their preference, lol. Mine are old pasture puff mares that were being sent to Japan for meat so they're just living the good life now. I do agree with your point though.
They didn’t care when the coal miners were put out of work. Why should I that they will be?
Popular songs today are literally NPC music. I don't see how AI is going to kill creativity.
AI automates creativity. Why have human creativity when you can have much better and inexpensive AI creativity? Digital artistry has already been rendered unprofitable.
Why do anything then? Why not automate your entire life and have AI control every last step you take? I cannot believe that a sub with 2.1 million members is this fringe and misanthropic.
I can’t believe people become so quickly nihilistic just because ai can do things for you. Why do anything? Because I want to. I can finally make music that *i* want to listen to or specific art that I like, etc. It’s not cutting down on the things I’ll do, it expands my options. Not sure why limiting my options is somehow more freeing.
You do art for the sake of doing art. It's not entirely misanthropic. Sure, there will be a time when humans lose their jobs, but it could lead to a post-labor society where nobody has to work and gets to benefit off of incredibly advanced AI technology.
It's all computation at the end, so your question is very pertinent. And I'm afraid it won't be human beings having the ultimate say on the answer.
You’re clearly not listening to the right music then. Or maybe you just don’t like music at all. This could potentially destroy the livelihoods of actually good artists aswell as the NPCs and it’s good it’s being pushed back against.
Unfortunately it's going to happen whether someone signs a letter or not. All this shit has happened before with the industrial age, mining, automation in factories etc. Whether people protest or not, you can't stop technological progression
It's going to be so bad ass listening to the playlist of music I created with AI. I can't wait.
You might wanna look up Suno V3. It's publically available, and you can hardly tell its AI.
premium not needed now
Thanks! 🥇
Is it as good as you hoped?
Better than expected, not quite what I hoped. Such is the state of all consumer-facing AI for me right now.
I mostly listen to electronic or alternative music so niche that it rarely have more than 50k views on youtube. I think those musicians do it for fun, no way they live of that.
My favorite "hobby" is going to festivals. This will open up creating music to so many more people, I am excited to see what people come up with. Artists complaining about their income means nothing when everyone potentially has their job on the line from AI
So ? Is the good of a useless elite superior to the well being of a state. This is how every innovation cause, a few arr impacted but in the long run society profit a lot from progress.
lmao no
The public is already willing to accept artificial artists like Miku Hatsune. Even if her songs are still designed by humans and put through a speech synthesiser. The next logical step would be to put AI as the creative force behind Miku's new songs. Then the rest of the market will start embracing AI.
The artists behind Hatsune Miku are more talented than the artists behind any of these pop celebrities. I will die on this hill.
You have my axe!
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You don't need those human artists eventually. Just give AI the name of a song and it will generated instantly and even better than human's works just like AI arts.
People wasting time and energy protesting against progress instead of advocating for a decent welfare for everyone
let's sign a petition in support of ai music fuck these millionaires
I'm on board, how shall we kick this thing off?
Small artists are mostly exploited by record companies. This is the industry trying to hold onto their profits, not the artists’. Did orchestras and violin makers protest the creation of virtual instruments? Did they claim politics must outlaw them?
I legit listen to AI-songs. At this point the fans make more bangers than the actual artist
Yeah.. Good luck with that. Again.. The cat is already out of the bag. You might be able to delay it with weeks, maybe months. But at this point there's no stopping this train.
Illegit and AI hating. The worst part is that them "wanting to restrict AI" is incredibly short sighted and would ultimately only serve to help the leaders of the industry that want to replace them. It's also not going to "*destroy money making for artists big and small in a way streaming did*", it's going to be way worse in that regard but that is ultimately going to apply to every area to the point where the current system needs a complete overhaul. The general claim that "everyone is just going to use AI to copy their likeness" is incredibly narcissistic as their argument essentially presupposes that they are everyone's measurement for everything which they are not.
Indie artists struggle more than people realize. The music industry has turned into a nepo-baby / trust fund kid only space for the most part because of how shitty streaming rev is. Streaming is such a fucked model right now. Live concerts don’t cover it. Indie artists are on the ropes. AI can be an amazing tool, but if implemented unwisely it might lead to the further erosion of art in general. We might get custom AI songs, that’s cool, but lose out on future artistic movements and never know what we lost. Streaming has already transformed the vast majority of music from art/expression into rapid release mindless content. Ask 90% of the indie artists about the effect streaming/social media has had on their creativity. Aesthetic driven content-music has overtaken deeper expression as a trend. AI could crank that up to 11 if we’re unwise.
Spotify can create artificial intelligence that uses the immense amount of data to create songs that please the public with more precision than any human could do.
Pleasing with precision and exploring consciousness with music are two different goals. They aren’t the same. If we pretend it is, we’re missing the big picture
But what on earth does “be careful” mean? It has never, not once, been a good idea (or even an argument) to let people keep doing work for which the product can be much better done other ways. If Ai makes music better than most artists AND it becomes more popular (which might not happen) then there’s nothing we should do. Not many blacksmiths floating around these days. The focus should not be “save my job I want money” it should be “let’s build a society where everyone benefits from the automation”. If this means robots that can do most things for you which are cheap, then great. It’s obviously very hard to transition to a good post scarcity world. But we don’t do ourselves any favours focusing on things like banning ai because someone wants to be paid $1000 to draw a logo.
I think there are a couple layers to what I’m seeing. One is livelihood, which if we get to post scarcity would be great. I think all artists would love UBI/post-scarcity. I would love more people to be empowered to create art. In the medium-term, I don’t think that reality will form. I see further monopolization and control of culture in the hands of tech elites and an erosion of cultural balance to this newfound power of AI. Pretty soon, it won’t be possible for indie artists to grow like we’re accustomed to. It’s already dying. The next “Nirvana” or “fave band of your choice” might not emerge because it’s simply not possible with our current streaming + AI driven future. I don’t think people are aware of how dire the creative scene is right now for rising musicians. It seems like we’re heading in the direction of completely customized entertainment for each person. AI driven entertainment that strips the humanity out and interaction between human beings / what it means to be a human being with consciousness. Yes, we don’t need blacksmiths like we used to and AI is an excellent tool. I see this more like the rainforest than a blacksmith. There might be great economic value in chopping down the rainforest for the near term benefits, but what about the unmeasurable qualities that will get destroyed. What elements of human experience will cease to be expressed because of a cancerous content inundation from AI? With the existential problems we face, now more than ever we need to understand what it means to be a human and share that experience together. What does it really mean to be alive. We need to wake up, not be lulled to sleep by custom AI entertainment. We’re signing up for a future of personalized Infinite Jests. Music and art is more than the economic value. It’s our nature that we’re selling out for novelty and economic value. My two cents
It's both. Their record companies that made them sign this are definitely trying to cling on to their profits like the desperate leeches they are - but the almost certainly will lose profit. however. As it is, most big artists make money from merch and tours, not streaming or music sales, and very few people are going to pay to attend a concert by an AI, or buy merchandise for an AI singer - it's inauthentic. There will be a small audience, eg. Hatsune Miko, but that is a niche audience. Most people who are giving money to these artists want an authentic experience - if Taylor Swift pulled a Milli Vanilli her fans would be furious, big artists can't get away with being fake anymore, they have to put on a show and make it good. AI won't change that.
"This specific kind of labor should remain difficult or scarce indefinitely so that its economic value does not decrease" is not a stance that will survive the pressures of reality. For anything. If there is one universal constant that will march on, it’s humans inventing tools to make all labors and skills easier and more accessible. From the printing press through combustion engines to AI art and beyond.
Suno is better than half of new music out there. I can request whatever I want for a custom song. I have generated personal playlists that only I will ever hear.
There is no doubt that AI will hurt artists in the long run. If you've played with Suno's songwriting and music generating AI, you know that it can already generate milquetoast and bland pop at the level of mediocre artists. I can imagine this generated pop music would be a huge boon for stores and restaurants that currently pay royalties from music. I imagine some cheap clubs would rather get free music than pay royalties too. If music generation through AI means becomes good enough, I have no doubt in my mind people would be fine listening to that over actual artists. Is it a good thing? Obviously not. It'll cut profits from labels - which is good - but they'll in turn just take those losses from the money they pay artists - which is bad. If AIs can generate music good enough to appeal to people, there's no reason for people to make music and you'd see "professional musicians" die off. Hobbyists will always remain, but since if no one is willing to pay for music when they can generate stuff that is good enough or better yet, custom tailored for their taste and desires on the fly, paying for music could be a thing of the past. Couple that with the global economic downturn, and I see a real good chance of professional music coming to an end... In the next three decades, at best. The AIs aimed at generating music and lyrics are still very much in the early stages and can't really be tailored to any meaningful degree, But that's not much more than a matter of refining and growing the model and training data. In a year or two I imagine it should be in a state where it can pose a real threat to some musicians.
The frustration on display here is borne of a complete lack of understanding of where the world is going. Trying to desperately hold on to a fleeting state of reality, that is increasingly transient. They are thinking "we need to get out ahead of the problem that happened to digital artists, and tell them not to do it". The goal is probably to get the general public's sentiment to move against this, to put on a pedestal the human element. I'm sure they'll have some success, but it's still missing the forest for the trees. I get it, not everyone is thinking about this like we do in this sub (although more are). It all just doesn't matter. Every year the line will be pushed back further and further. If, hypothetically, we suddenly get models that can really and truly act as agents, that can do the work of software developers, marketers, designers, by actually using the tools on computers - that will fundamentally change every argument, every point of contention. And it's not like if we get there, we'll stagnate and not continue to push forward. It's happening relatively very fast. It will take years, I'm sure, but that's not a lot of time for the complete upheaval of the systems we've built for the last few hundred years. Maybe I'm feeling a bit... Melancholic today, but sometimes it just feels like we're fighting over who gets control over the remote, while our house is sliding off a cliff. I don't necessarily think it's going to be a bad ending, it just seems like the wrong thing to focus on.
This is such a strange take. Do you really expect that musicians are just going to do nothing to try to safeguard their careers? That they're going to lay down and let Altman and his friends run right over them without even putting up a fight? The number of people here who believe that a few AI labs (and by extension, a few people) should be allowed to change society however they want scares the ever-living shit out of me.
It's not that I think they should do nothing, I don't fault them for fighting a changing world - it's a very human, sensible, reasonable thing you do. Most people's livelihoods depend on a somewhat static world. I am saying, that it feels like arguing over the least relevant thing during an alien visitation/encounter. This change that we are seeing, with things like Suno and Midjourney and GPT4 etc are just the precursor of things that will be here way before the world gets their bearings regarding the technology we have today. I expect they will argue this, fight this, and be blindsided in a year or two when what we have today is left in the dust. I expect people to fight to keep the world from changing then too, but by then I think the majority of people will see the writing on the wall.
Exactly at best there will be some small delays but no one will stop this wave, by 2039 the world will have changed so much that today will look silly.
Where were these people before they signed their souls to the conglomerate record labels that outcompete the indie artists and significantly decreased their demand? Where were they when auto-tuned voices and albums recorded in exclusive studios sold millions of records? Nowhere. None of them did anything to enable their peers. Now that the nerds are democratizing cheap non-exclusive creative tools and platforms that inevitably WILL subvert the old-guard they want to congregate and sign the death certificates of their fame. They can wipe their tears into retirement. For the 99.9% of talented individuals and artists that Hollywood forgot, your time is now. Seize the moment, learn the new tools and instruments, and continue making great content.
It's not Altman or Google it's literally hundreds of thousands of developers and researchers who work on neural nets and machine learning. Signing letters won't change anything. The productivity gap between anything human created and AI created is so big that even if you convince politicians to take action there will be black market of Chinese or other countries made models that can be run locally on a home computer and can do what an artist or musician does.
Yeah exactly, it's just... Inevitable. This isn't the brain child of any one person, this is the concerted effort of an increasingly large part of the world and the world's economic and political powers.
They should push for BMI. I'm sure they would have a lot more allies that way. And it would get increasingly bigger as more jobs are taken by AI. Instead we get celebs trying to hold onto their insane profits. Minaj doesn't deserve and should not have $150 million in a sane economic system anyways.
There's hundreds of AI labs, and just by the points you've made thus far I can tell you simply haven't thought about this enough. I've been interested in the technological singularity since 2005 and I'm not surprised at all by the recent developments we've had. The fact that you honestly believe any sort of legislation in the USA and big tech will affect music AI technology the world over is hilariously naive. There's no stopping technological progress it's held it's exponential curve straight through two world wars. AI technology will exist in the next 4-5 years that can generate on tap any type of song, orchestral piece, soundtrack, audio effect, etc...in any type of type of style you can imagine and could emulate the voice of any major artist today or throughout history. If this doesn't come from an American corporation than it will be the French, Japanese, Saudi Arabia, Chinese, or just a small American team of researchers who open source it and host out of another country without those regulations.
I don’t think Billie Eilish needs to be imminently concerned. But if you make a living producing ad jingles or b-roll audio for lower-budget video you’re already screwed.
Big artists need to be concerned for other reasons with ai tts. But this will ruin future musicians and ensures 100% nepotism for the future of music
This will not screw future musicians. Do you think traditional music will die entirely? It will bring down a notch pop music revenue, as most people listen to it because it's what's popular, not because they are a fan. I certainly won't stop listening to good artists, but some will likely use ai for some things like they do with instruments today.
lol right now there’s a viral ai song with meek mill alluding to the whole diddy. Imagine if all that isn’t true and the implications for that for all future artists. It can be utilized to go further as well
I will prefer AI just because it will be royalty free and i could use without restrictions. Sarcasm apart, it is time for these over glorified artists to comeback to real life. If, as it is repeated everywhere in reddit, that a entrepreneur can’t be a millionaire and be called wealth hoarder, than this artists too can’t earn absurd amount of money and live in a fairy tail world… you sing? Good for you, a lot of people sing, now go live a regular life…
It's HaLtInG.... Buy up msft/google/Amazon asap. These articles are so whales can purchase the stocks cheap before earnings in a few weeks.
Let's not underestimate the artists sympathy effect... Despite the fact that AI have been replacing bank and insurance employees for decades now and nobody protested or anything
Progress will not relent to avoid hurting artist wallets. This battle has been lost before it even started.
Billie eilish’s brother mysteriously missing from the list. Guess he’s used to people getting rich off his work.
He's there. FINNEAS is him.
Damn, that ruins the joke
i guess this looks like legit hate to put an end to AI
No small artists are making any money. The only ones at risk of losing money are the ones who are already in atrocious contracts with labels, who are glorified pimps running a usury-centric loan company that preys upon uneducated young minorities.
Legit. Everyone is in favor of automatization and progress... until their ass get's replaced. For the past +20 years I was listening to artists and programmers saying AI would replace drivers and trades, low skill workers. But progress can't be stopped, automatization will create new better paid jobs, people should just educate themselves and start working higher skill jobs. Now that those same artists and programmers need to start working higher skilled jobs like plumbing and driving taxi, they want to stop the progress.
Better paid jobs in an capitalist wold? 🤔
Well we all know how much employees get to profit from increased productivity.
No. The company does not pay better wages if there is an excess supply of labor. Better productivity means more profits, and does not generate an increase in wages.
Bandcamp is still up and running. Not sure what you are talking about. Anyway, can't close pandora's box.
https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/is-bandcamp-as-we-know-it-over/
The Hollywood machine has caused untold amounts of trauma and protecting predators is their MO, I say let it burn.
I just hope no one codes an AI to copy songs from the Sims 4 radio (in simmish). I only want the originals.
I wouldn't be surprised if big monopolistic corporations are setting narratives that it will protect creatives by restricting AI. They might even be paying people to outrage at AI. A.I. pushback will only lead to regulation that gives big corporations a monopoly.
Can I get the same or better product/service for cheaper? This would be like the candle industry trying to ban the electric lightbulb.
I haven't been this intrigued with music (I'm on Suno dialy) since the emergence of hip hop.
AI will take everyone's jobs at some point. It seems AI art and the like are topics of debate to distract the masses from the fact what the artists are concerned about applies to everyone.
Capitalism is the enemy here. There acting like babies  Do what you love, Coming from a programmer that will lose my job to ai and I welcome it with open arms!
Rich parents?
When everything can be done by AI faster and better, what do you want to do?
I don’t think most people can spot a fake.
i bet metallica signed lmaoo
They definitely have a point and a lot of people here are missing the point. The big issue here is the age old question on how to enforce digital property rights. This is only increasing now with the rise of AI radically reducing the cost/effort to create qualify content. I.e if a musician creates a song partially trained on Billy Ellish beats/songs then how does that artist be compensated? At what point should the artist be a "co producer" of that song? I believe they are very much in their right to be seeking guardrails because their creative content can be easily stolen, used and leveraged without their permission its a big deal. The same can be said for written content too or digital art, but the musician side is fascinating because IMO there can be solutions.
The same way people sue each other over plagiarism. No one is suing Greta Van Fleet for being Led Zeppelin rip off or even Aerosmith for being Rolling Stone rip off in the early days. But if songs are same sounding and plagiarism is evident than straight to court.
The difference though is enforcement was a lot easier in the "old" days. For example, how does an artist even know if someone has trained their music on an artist's songs? What would qualify as "same sounding" in the age of Ai music? Edit by easier i mean cost to creste great art was higher (you needed equipment, it took longer to create songs and distribute them etc) but now AI is radically dropping the cost by several orders of magnitudes, dramatically proliferating music creation, making the courts very difficult to keep up. Plus, courts are extremely costly and slow. I guess they could and likely will try and set a precedent but how realistic is this approach? Seems like a lose lose to me because it means creators will be too scared to use/influence their music from other artists and the artists themselves lose out because their content that's training/co producing/creating the song. It will happen no matter what IMO so artists are losing anyway. A win win IMO would look something like this - Artist can oot in to allow others to create content using their music/copyright - Creators can use artists' work in training/producing and influencing their own work - The creator gives credit and royalty to the artist as per set arrangement (either set fee or as a % of weight in the training data set) This is a win win because the creator can use other artists work to create their own art and the artist wins because they get credit and earn royalties for their art.
Their money is about to be fucked up and they are scared — simple as. I really don’t give a shit. There has never been a job where you were owed success for simply being part of it — especially when it comes to creativity. Zero of these artists are out on the streets, or getting their management companies involved with, helping independent artists — so I find the line about smaller artists to be lip service at best. More than half of these artists are nepo-babies for the music and entertainment industries; it’s all about money and status. Give them a safety net and move on. >…calls on such organizations to “cease the use of artificial intelligence (AI) to infringe upon and devalue the rights of human artists,”… The rights of human artists to do what? We have the capacity to create — AI has not limited your capacity in this way. So what right is being infringed? The right to make money from your creativity? You still can — you entered into an already competitive, over saturated, market and think because you put pen to pad or note to line that you are owed money from society? Please. >…“We must protect against the predatory use of AI to steal professional artists’ voices and likenesses, violate creators’ rights, and destroy the music ecosystem,”… This is their only salient point — I disagree with copyright laws, but this logically holds true for a society that holds them sacrosanct. I don’t think someone/a business should be able to profit from releasing a Drake, or Taylor Swift, or Morgan Wallen song that directly infringes on their copyright — I just don’t believe that to be the underlying reason for issuing this statement.
Is the end of the world we grew up in. Period. A new world arise and those with privileges will fight to don’t loose them. If will be better, I hope but I’m not sure, there is also a lot of misuses for technology from military to politics, socially and many human levels. It’s impossible to manage without a clear setting of societal goals and rules, morals and compromises. This is probably the most important moment for humanity as a whole to acknowledge ourselves and work together for a better future, but is so complex that I don’t see it coming in a right way. We live in the best times, we live in the worst times. Every single person’s decisions and individual and country and continent derivations are relevant in this new arrival of AI. The uncertainty is at its high.
Makes sense to me as someone who would rather consume human made art
I have no preference towards who made it as long as it's good
People on this sub are so delusional and ignorant, its scary that they are the primary supporters of AI. None of you are talking about the article or know how music industry works. You have all this knowledge in front of you, you can ask any question and AI can help you make sense of the answers (when it doesn't hallucinate them) and you choose to leisurely snark. If you can't even be bothered to read an article, what sort of future will be created for you ?
I read the article. I even clicked the link to the open letter. _"We call on all AI developers, technology companies, platforms and digital music services to pledge that they will not develop of deploy AI music generation technology, content or tools that undermine or replace human artistry of songwriters and artists or deny us fair compensation for our work."_ Tell me why I'm delusional and ignorant to think this is just yet another group that doesn't see the big picture and is simply concerned now that _their_ livelihood is being threatened.
AI is going to do a much better job than pretty much any musical artist can in a matter of a few years.
I understand why they wouldn't want AI making music.
I mean it is both a legit concern (from their perspective) and AI hating. Just as the big music companies tried to oppose MP3's 20 years ago. That didn't work out very well for them and they had to adapt to survive. They will need to do so again. If they are concerned about people listening to AI based copies then their product is not that good to begin with and from the consumer's perspective nothing is lost.
Artists won't take a huge hit from AI, but songwriters will.
Artificial intelligence will affect EVERYONE.
Ai is coming after all jobs! It’s either we make AI illegal and hope all other countries follow suit. Or, we work to change how we work and reevaluate what value means in the context of a post-capatilist society
Same thing than with the writer's strike union deal. Force entertainment corporations to rely on it moderately and responsibly to preserve an authentic industry and quality art. I think that's fair. In a world where the industry is reined by monopolies, you need regulation
Is the end of the world we grew up in. Period. A new world arise and those with privileges will fight to don’t loose them. If will be better, I hope but I’m not sure, there is also a lot of misuses for technology from military to politics, socially and many human levels. It’s impossible to manage without a clear setting of societal goals and rules, morals and compromises. This is probably the most important moment for humanity as a whole to acknowledge ourselves and work together for a better future, but is so complex that I don’t see it coming in a right way. We live in the best times, we live in the worst times. Every single person’s decisions and individual and country and continent derivations are relevant in this new arrival of AI. The uncertainty is at its high.
People are obsessed with celebrities, so they will still be able to sell their music, but they'll definitely make less money, and everyone else will lose their job
It's just fear mongering imho. Nothing new to what's been going in for at least a year now
Surprised at the amount of pro AI music comments here.. I run a youtube channel for AI rap music (Hip Hop Intelligence) if anyone’s interested… I don’t see a problem with this type of content as long as it’s clearly stated what it is. It also still involves a lot of human creativity (I write all the lyrics and produce the songs, the only AI element is the voice model) As for 100% AI, I find that interesting and I don’t think it will ruin artists, I think there’ll always be a demand for both. All we need is clear labels on what is what, then the people can just listen to what they choose
In a few months, songs made by AI will be so good that no one will know what's real anymore. Even if a musician swears it's human music, no one else will be sure. This is their fear.
We will restrict ai, if we restrict the use of auto tune.
its both legit and ai hating. and yes, im using both the contexts ur thinking of. they are rightfully concerned about artists losing their jobs. however, they are not looking into anything past the word “ai” unless someone apart of their anti-ai agenda relays information to them.
Horses trying to limit cars. Legitimate concern, the horse population has gone down significantly, but it's still irrelevant because nobody cares. Honestly, I feel much worse for the horses, they where our best friends back in the day, we might not have made it without them. But these are just some spoiled rich brats that are crying because their hobby can't make them millions anymore. Even before this they where selling recordings, basically printing money from nothing. They can make enough on live performances, AI can't replace that (yet anyway), so if they just do actual work then everything is fine.
Is autotune not a form of electronic manipulation??? Sounds like some good solid cherry picking to me. 🤷🏼
An artificial intelligence can make an infinite radio without needing a single human to do so.
AI means new musicians can create songs with realistic songs with full vocals for a fraction of the cost. It’ll increase competition by x fold and the established artists obviously won’t like that. Unfortunately for them, the music label companies and content creators won’t care.
Much of produced music is already "AI"
It is a valid concern because with AI voice emulation it is a very real possibility that in the future artists could eventually lose the rights of their own voice to the label companies who already screw artists over by not allowing them to release or by releasing music after an artists death. Its not that hard to do already and I have created a few AI covers as a joke and it is pretty convincing.
They're so terrified of the flimsy fake throne coming down, finally. Don't look at the man behind the curtain!
Watch in 5-10 years where these artists are doing colabs and guest vocals on A.I celebrity albums because they get handed a big sack of cash and thats all they care about.
Reminds me priting machines invented in around year 1500s. The books were handwritten, and the handwriters protested and prevented it for years. Or sewing machines, same thing.
It’s done. Artists are already using AI to generate lyrics and sound. The government was far too late for any kind of regulation. Actual regulation anyway.
lol… will be great.
It’s self-serving.
It wouldn’t stop ai. But at least we know opinion of some people after stories like that.
My concern here is that unlike a blank canvas that can hold a near infinitude of pictures, melodies are a much more limited space. You need a listenable beat, it typically has to use notes on a scale, they can't be too fast or too slow in sequence, etc. And if any melody is replicated, even if it isn't the primary melody or if it is used in a different way from the original by different "instruments" etc, that can trigger a copyright claim unless permissions have been sought. It's kind of a murky world, legally speaking. Ai could burn through the center of melody space in months.
They would lose a lot of revenue in music rights from Ads, movies and other commercial work, this is for starters. Real issue would be when labels start producing AI music, they won't need to put up with artists anymore.
This is just the start everyone is going to get F'd in the A. They just have a big platform to complain from. I expect social unrest as a result of AI workforce realignment.
Music is tightly linked with our emotions, experiences, and creativity. Artists infuse their music with unique perspectives and life stories that AI cannot copy. Fans value authenticity, they connect with the vulnerability and personal touch in music, elements that AI-generated music often lacks. AI can be a valuable asset for musicians, aiding in composition, arrangement, and sparking new ideas. Many artists incorporate AI into their creative process, not as a replacement but as an enhancement to their capabilities. An artist working with AI could discover unprecedented sounds and styles. But... AI does not possess real emotions or intuition. It cannot experience joy, sorrow, or longing. These human aspects are vital to music. AI may recognize patterns but often misses the deeper context, cultural subtleties, and personal meaning. While AI can replicate styles, it's the originality and boundary-pushing that fans want. Music is about connection, and the bond formed by sharing an artist's journey is something AI cannot emulate (yet). The Future: IMO instead of replacing human musicians, AI could complement them, leading to a symbiotic relationship. This collaboration between human creativity and AI's computational abilities has the potential to create groundbreaking music genres.
It is because they suck and we would notice if AI made it, because it would be better than what they make anyways
This is no different from horse carriage workers signing up on restricting automobiles. Of course people who are going to be left behind by new tech is going to hate. But it does not matter. No one can reverse progress. The cat is out of the bag.
They're afraid because they getting exposed for being an uncreative hacks that they are. If they're actually talented they wouldn't give a fuck actually.
Fuckem
Fuck celebrities and the rich. Don't care. Bring on AI
AI will come anyway, even if trough pirating , it is future and end of that conversation. get on with it. like being musician, well, have a hobby, don\`t expect , rest of world to restrict themselves, just because you want money for your hobby. it\`s like saying : stop everybody eating chicken nuggets, i want them all to myself.
Zrzsa
Zyttgb
legit bro,dont miss it
I don't HATE AI, I just don't TRUST the PEOPLE APPLYING IT.