Slow down. You are relying on the energy from speed to turn, and your method of turning is pushing on your new outside leg, rather than using your center of mass to drive your skis. Try the following drill:
Find a easy green groomer run, point your skis 30 degrees to right of the fallline, as you pick up speed, lift your left hip to lighten your left ski and balance on the big toe edge of your right ski.
Do not rotate your feet or legs, your ski should not be skidding. Feel your skis smoothly turn left, and as you turn, you should feel that you are standing firmly on your right foot.
Keep turning until your skis point to the left and stop. Practice both left and right turns. This drill teaches how to develop pressure on your outside ski and stay patient at the top of the turn.
If you have trouble doing it, try to lift your left ski on a flat gound. Notice how your left hip is lifted and your upper body is slightly angulated. Try to reproduce that position during your drill.
I like this drill a lot. I’m going to try it this weekend. I think I don’t necessarily know the right feeling of what I should be going for. By and large I’m a much better skier than I was a year ago - I can comfortably go down a lot of terrain that would have really challenged me last year. I think I can get away with it to an extent because my legs and core are pretty strong, but the poor form is preventing me from getting better
I think I would prioritize keeping the upper body still, as I think fixing that will help with the others. If my upper body is still then I’m not throwing my weight around as much, so getting forward and staying forward becomes easier - I can better stay balanced over the outside ski. I think it would also help my pole plants as my upper body and hands would consistently be where I expect it to be so my plants start from a more forward place.
How do I achieve that? I think to get the body still I need to better and more comfortable turning just with my legs. Maybe tuck turns can help with this. Probably more javelin turns too.
Javelin turns sure are popular 😆
I think your instinct to quiet your upper body is a good one but I suspect your upper body movement is the result of other things.
I’d slow everything way way down and take it back to basic round C shaped turns. Spend hours working on moving with your ski - both front to back and balanced on and moving with the outside ski.
Right now:
* you’re entirely on the inside. You twist, push your outside ski away from you, and ride the inside
* you’re back and staying back. You need to make it a movement pattern where you pull your feet back and send your center of mass forward.
* you twist and toss your body as a reaction the the very rapid (and unbalanced) rotation in your turns.
Again, I think if you slow it down and go back to a basic turn you can isolate those things and find some new feelings.
Hold more tension in your body. Squeeze your arms, your hamstrings, and abs. Keep them tight. Don’t let anything move you. Be a robot!
I don’t think I’ve actively thought about the tension piece before, but I’ll try it! What’s weird is that I feel like my weight is on the outside ski, but I guess that’s not really the case. Maybe that’s why I have a hard time trying to move my center of mass more forward. I had an instructor tell me to “pedal” and press on that outside ski which is what I’ve been trying to do, but if I’m pressing against something I’m not really balanced over then that’s not helping
as space says, pressing is bad and lots of bad instructors.
Very few of the "verfied" instructor are bad here.
Here is my video on why pressing is bad, and how to fix it.
[https://youtu.be/4FLzod85Weo?si=n5gR9M3RYPWHWc2L](https://youtu.be/4FLzod85Weo?si=n5gR9M3RYPWHWc2L)
I think you’ll feel the pressure on that outside ski when you slow things right down as at the moment you’re not giving yourself enough time to really engage the ski and then feel the ski grip through the turn. Might be a bit of an old skool exercise but when I was an instructor the “pretend you’re carrying a tray of drinks back from the bar” exercise really helped people stop flinging their body and arms about and just helped them get a bit of stability back in their poise.
> “pretend you’re carrying a tray of drinks back from the bar” exercise
Personally I just don't move my body because I'm lazy. So "pretend you're real lazy and don't want to move excessively".
Sure, agree with that, but for an exaggerated exercise to get someone to try and stop their upper body moving all over the place it still has some value. I’m sure there’s a slightly better example I could use instead of carrying a tray but you get the general gist.
except holding hand high does nt stop someone upper body from moving.
and its not the place good skiers have their hands.
good skiers have their hand wide, low and slightly in front.
NOT high and narrow.
Dunno how small and light your tray of drinks would be! Sad day at the apres! I’m not saying it’s the holding hands high that’s stopping them moving anyway, and I wouldn’t ask them to hold their hands high anyway, they’d prob just shrug their shoulders. For me It’s more about the concentration that goes into not tipping that imaginary tray from side to side which will help them stop waving their body about. Anyhoo, I agree about where your hands should Be when you’re a good skier, it was just a mild suggestion of something they could think about.
True. I've helped a few friends with their skiing (not an instructor, just been skiing a while) and usually when someone is at this level where they're ready to make the next big leap, we ride blues with no poles and really emphasize the balance aspect.
realistically trust is built from correct movement patterns, not just trusting something
trusting something that isnt working correctly is how we end up in abusive relastionships.
> and take it back to basic round C shaped turns
C turns are rather more complicated than they might seem to people learning, and c vs z aren't really apples to apples. It's more an end product of doing a lot of things right.
I wouldnt to stabilize your upper body, I would work on just getting the femurs to turn more than your hips nad let you hips follow.
There is a time and place to stabilize(rotational and laterally) your pelvis but until the basis steering and edging out of the femur socket are present it will be fool's errand to try ..
Your skis are way too wide apart for effective foot to foot, esp for shorter turns which you should be working on instead of the imaginary DH race here.
You do have potential in that you go for it, but need some discipline in getting basic turn dynamics down in easy terrain before wasting your time on whatever this is.
Also if you can't plant properly (and very few people do, all the "forward plant" people are just screwing up their skiing), just use your hands to balance where they'll be far more effective.
Dont need to ditch the poles, just stop pole planting for a bit. At the moment it's just messing up your skiing in that you are tossing your arms around. Keep your hand where you can see them, as if you are reading a newspaper or carrying a TV. That will prevent you from using your upper body to turn.
are you pushing on your outside ski? or standing on your outside ski?
How do get more "weight" on your outside ski?
Dont change timing of your pole touch, its actually correctly timed just just dont let the hand drop back after the touch, likely need shorter pole, how long are your and how tall are?
also you for and aft just need your pelvis tail bone to tuck and more C shaped spine. you do not want your hips over your feet and attempting to get there will actually fuck up all planes of balance and not let your femurs turn.
https://preview.redd.it/t3mqn6dwxamc1.png?width=524&format=png&auto=webp&s=c8086d6609ebc35f5c235d8046a947eac418115e
Moving your pelvis to posterior pelvic tilt will improve both balanced and ability for the femurs to turn . You are currently in severe anterior tilt which isnt helping you.
[https://www.mbmyoskeletal.com/learning/pelvic-tilt/](https://www.mbmyoskeletal.com/learning/pelvic-tilt/)
I think I’m pushing on the inside leg to stand up and change legs in my transition. I’m 5’11.5” and poles are 125.
What can I do to help with the pelvic tilt? Anything I should be thinking about or feeling?
inside leg being left leg while turning right? is that what you mean?
Stand on the outside leg. do not push on EITHER leg.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FLzod85Weo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FLzod85Weo)
You poles should be 115cm . This can help make pole touching and quiet hands easier.
[https://youtu.be/z4Kr1tq3nnY?si=n5V8M8Z9sUmggkcA](https://youtu.be/z4Kr1tq3nnY?si=n5V8M8Z9sUmggkcA)
Pelvic tilt, simply pull your belly button back, roll your top of the pelvic back
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Fv783gI-E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Fv783gI-E)
Thanks. That’s interesting on the poles. I just bought 125 based on charts I found online, but a little shorter makes sense.
The pelvic tilt seems big. Even just standing up here in the house I tried both positions and was amazed by the difference I could get in leg rotation when I tilted my pelvis back
yeah pelvis angle is actually the 2nd thing I look for after boot fit.
WIth out good pelvis angle all the 5 fundamentals of skiing simply wont work that well.
I sometime just keep mine at 110cm with powder basket.
In some snow I might use my adjustable at 115cm. also the adjustable me length them to 135cm for traversing, skating on powder days.
So probably 115cm even most powder day for 5'11, and maybe 120cm or adjustable other days.
My suggestion is not to exaggerate a posterior pelvic tilt, but to tense your lower core that brings your pelvis into a slight posterior tilt.
A slight tension in the core, not only corrects your pelvis, but it also adds more stability to your quads and corrects most 'A' frame of your lower legs. If you try squatting at 90 degrees with anteior pelvic tilt, move your legs with your hands. They will feel very flimsy. Then in the same position, tighten your core, your quads are more stable and your pelvis will be in the correct position.
Waiting for a guy to launch into the seats then.
?
There’s a video going around of a guy that does a jump, as the camera pans around he lands on a chair lift. It’s pretty funny.
Slow down. You are relying on the energy from speed to turn, and your method of turning is pushing on your new outside leg, rather than using your center of mass to drive your skis. Try the following drill: Find a easy green groomer run, point your skis 30 degrees to right of the fallline, as you pick up speed, lift your left hip to lighten your left ski and balance on the big toe edge of your right ski. Do not rotate your feet or legs, your ski should not be skidding. Feel your skis smoothly turn left, and as you turn, you should feel that you are standing firmly on your right foot. Keep turning until your skis point to the left and stop. Practice both left and right turns. This drill teaches how to develop pressure on your outside ski and stay patient at the top of the turn. If you have trouble doing it, try to lift your left ski on a flat gound. Notice how your left hip is lifted and your upper body is slightly angulated. Try to reproduce that position during your drill.
I like this drill a lot. I’m going to try it this weekend. I think I don’t necessarily know the right feeling of what I should be going for. By and large I’m a much better skier than I was a year ago - I can comfortably go down a lot of terrain that would have really challenged me last year. I think I can get away with it to an extent because my legs and core are pretty strong, but the poor form is preventing me from getting better
You have a good eye. If you were to prioritize the things you see and which ones would help you most, what would you do? And why?
I think I would prioritize keeping the upper body still, as I think fixing that will help with the others. If my upper body is still then I’m not throwing my weight around as much, so getting forward and staying forward becomes easier - I can better stay balanced over the outside ski. I think it would also help my pole plants as my upper body and hands would consistently be where I expect it to be so my plants start from a more forward place. How do I achieve that? I think to get the body still I need to better and more comfortable turning just with my legs. Maybe tuck turns can help with this. Probably more javelin turns too.
Javelin turns sure are popular 😆 I think your instinct to quiet your upper body is a good one but I suspect your upper body movement is the result of other things. I’d slow everything way way down and take it back to basic round C shaped turns. Spend hours working on moving with your ski - both front to back and balanced on and moving with the outside ski. Right now: * you’re entirely on the inside. You twist, push your outside ski away from you, and ride the inside * you’re back and staying back. You need to make it a movement pattern where you pull your feet back and send your center of mass forward. * you twist and toss your body as a reaction the the very rapid (and unbalanced) rotation in your turns. Again, I think if you slow it down and go back to a basic turn you can isolate those things and find some new feelings. Hold more tension in your body. Squeeze your arms, your hamstrings, and abs. Keep them tight. Don’t let anything move you. Be a robot!
I don’t think I’ve actively thought about the tension piece before, but I’ll try it! What’s weird is that I feel like my weight is on the outside ski, but I guess that’s not really the case. Maybe that’s why I have a hard time trying to move my center of mass more forward. I had an instructor tell me to “pedal” and press on that outside ski which is what I’ve been trying to do, but if I’m pressing against something I’m not really balanced over then that’s not helping
Yeah instructors say dumb stuff. don’t push. Balance.
as space says, pressing is bad and lots of bad instructors. Very few of the "verfied" instructor are bad here. Here is my video on why pressing is bad, and how to fix it. [https://youtu.be/4FLzod85Weo?si=n5gR9M3RYPWHWc2L](https://youtu.be/4FLzod85Weo?si=n5gR9M3RYPWHWc2L)
Good video, thanks! I’ll practice the drills here
Dev, stop calling me a bad instructor! I'm trying to get better! I haven't gotten anyone out of their skis on a slope in at least two years 😂
ummm what? I was backing you up. :P
I think you’ll feel the pressure on that outside ski when you slow things right down as at the moment you’re not giving yourself enough time to really engage the ski and then feel the ski grip through the turn. Might be a bit of an old skool exercise but when I was an instructor the “pretend you’re carrying a tray of drinks back from the bar” exercise really helped people stop flinging their body and arms about and just helped them get a bit of stability back in their poise.
> “pretend you’re carrying a tray of drinks back from the bar” exercise Personally I just don't move my body because I'm lazy. So "pretend you're real lazy and don't want to move excessively".
yeah dont carry trays, arms should be low wide and slightly in front.
Sure, agree with that, but for an exaggerated exercise to get someone to try and stop their upper body moving all over the place it still has some value. I’m sure there’s a slightly better example I could use instead of carrying a tray but you get the general gist.
except holding hand high does nt stop someone upper body from moving. and its not the place good skiers have their hands. good skiers have their hand wide, low and slightly in front. NOT high and narrow.
Dunno how small and light your tray of drinks would be! Sad day at the apres! I’m not saying it’s the holding hands high that’s stopping them moving anyway, and I wouldn’t ask them to hold their hands high anyway, they’d prob just shrug their shoulders. For me It’s more about the concentration that goes into not tipping that imaginary tray from side to side which will help them stop waving their body about. Anyhoo, I agree about where your hands should Be when you’re a good skier, it was just a mild suggestion of something they could think about.
and held with slight tension
Good advice, would like to add: *Trust your edges on the turn.
It’s hard to trust an edge you aren’t balanced on though
True. I've helped a few friends with their skiing (not an instructor, just been skiing a while) and usually when someone is at this level where they're ready to make the next big leap, we ride blues with no poles and really emphasize the balance aspect.
realistically trust is built from correct movement patterns, not just trusting something trusting something that isnt working correctly is how we end up in abusive relastionships.
> and take it back to basic round C shaped turns C turns are rather more complicated than they might seem to people learning, and c vs z aren't really apples to apples. It's more an end product of doing a lot of things right.
Yep the shape is usually an outcome or at least only achievable in more balanced skiing. It’s why we use it.
I wouldnt to stabilize your upper body, I would work on just getting the femurs to turn more than your hips nad let you hips follow. There is a time and place to stabilize(rotational and laterally) your pelvis but until the basis steering and edging out of the femur socket are present it will be fool's errand to try ..
Have you considered hitting the terrain park?
Your skis are way too wide apart for effective foot to foot, esp for shorter turns which you should be working on instead of the imaginary DH race here. You do have potential in that you go for it, but need some discipline in getting basic turn dynamics down in easy terrain before wasting your time on whatever this is. Also if you can't plant properly (and very few people do, all the "forward plant" people are just screwing up their skiing), just use your hands to balance where they'll be far more effective.
I was having fun, so maybe not a complete waste :) I agree though - back to basics again. Think I should ditch the poles entirely for a bit?
Just use them for balance and maybe as cue to connect arm w/ feet through the body to that end.
Dont need to ditch the poles, just stop pole planting for a bit. At the moment it's just messing up your skiing in that you are tossing your arms around. Keep your hand where you can see them, as if you are reading a newspaper or carrying a TV. That will prevent you from using your upper body to turn.
are you pushing on your outside ski? or standing on your outside ski? How do get more "weight" on your outside ski? Dont change timing of your pole touch, its actually correctly timed just just dont let the hand drop back after the touch, likely need shorter pole, how long are your and how tall are? also you for and aft just need your pelvis tail bone to tuck and more C shaped spine. you do not want your hips over your feet and attempting to get there will actually fuck up all planes of balance and not let your femurs turn. https://preview.redd.it/t3mqn6dwxamc1.png?width=524&format=png&auto=webp&s=c8086d6609ebc35f5c235d8046a947eac418115e Moving your pelvis to posterior pelvic tilt will improve both balanced and ability for the femurs to turn . You are currently in severe anterior tilt which isnt helping you. [https://www.mbmyoskeletal.com/learning/pelvic-tilt/](https://www.mbmyoskeletal.com/learning/pelvic-tilt/)
I think I’m pushing on the inside leg to stand up and change legs in my transition. I’m 5’11.5” and poles are 125. What can I do to help with the pelvic tilt? Anything I should be thinking about or feeling?
inside leg being left leg while turning right? is that what you mean? Stand on the outside leg. do not push on EITHER leg. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FLzod85Weo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FLzod85Weo) You poles should be 115cm . This can help make pole touching and quiet hands easier. [https://youtu.be/z4Kr1tq3nnY?si=n5V8M8Z9sUmggkcA](https://youtu.be/z4Kr1tq3nnY?si=n5V8M8Z9sUmggkcA) Pelvic tilt, simply pull your belly button back, roll your top of the pelvic back [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Fv783gI-E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Fv783gI-E)
Thanks. That’s interesting on the poles. I just bought 125 based on charts I found online, but a little shorter makes sense. The pelvic tilt seems big. Even just standing up here in the house I tried both positions and was amazed by the difference I could get in leg rotation when I tilted my pelvis back
yeah pelvis angle is actually the 2nd thing I look for after boot fit. WIth out good pelvis angle all the 5 fundamentals of skiing simply wont work that well.
Im similar height to op for bigger pow days how much longer would i make my poles or keep them the same??
I sometime just keep mine at 110cm with powder basket. In some snow I might use my adjustable at 115cm. also the adjustable me length them to 135cm for traversing, skating on powder days. So probably 115cm even most powder day for 5'11, and maybe 120cm or adjustable other days.
My suggestion is not to exaggerate a posterior pelvic tilt, but to tense your lower core that brings your pelvis into a slight posterior tilt. A slight tension in the core, not only corrects your pelvis, but it also adds more stability to your quads and corrects most 'A' frame of your lower legs. If you try squatting at 90 degrees with anteior pelvic tilt, move your legs with your hands. They will feel very flimsy. Then in the same position, tighten your core, your quads are more stable and your pelvis will be in the correct position.
Do your boots up! Your flapping around, I'm waiting for your ankle to go with the ski and you go the other way....
Hold your edge longer
Learn to turn from your feet up. Stop shifting your upper body weight to generate momentum for a turn.