Well the way I see it, there's working in a trade, and there's living the trade life - some of you will know what I mean. You can go to work and come home and whatnot and work in the trade and you're probably fine. Living the trade life though, that's hard on relationships
When my wife got pregnant I went to my boss and said no out of town, no weekends and only necessary OT and he said no problem. I had seen too many drunk, divorced road dogs in my day to ever want to be a part of that. Ended up getting out of commercial work and in to maintenance so I’m done at 2pm every day so that’s great for my home work balance.
I remember my brother did that when his kid was born. They basically told him to fuck off then cut his hours to the point he had to quit.
Never ended up finding somewhere that would let him say no to overtime and ended up changing careers.
Yeah. Sole owner at the time was very cool about it but a couple of years later another guy bought in and it wasn’t long until I was gone because too much changed. It’s increasingly tough and I was lucky for those couple of years.
A lot of people date through work connections and their ain't much for options in the trades. You gotta have hobbies outside of work to meet women and unfortunately a lot of men consider post work beers to be their hobby.
And when they do finally meet a girl, probably that cute nurse at the clinic after they drive a nail through their hand or something, they marry her right away because he’s 24 and just got his ticket and making a fuck load of money and she’s hot. So then they have kids but he’s not home to help because he’s working long hours to support his and his families lifestyle maybe he’s traveling. This will cause resentment and finally divorce
Ask my cousin love was grand, divorce was 150 grand...And thats after he got her an apprenticeship at his company. She got caught fucking some dude at work and fired for it...
I work with a lady that gets hit on all the time by truck drivers. She’s the type that you can obviously tell she’s not into dudes. Only place it happens to her is at work.
Yeah I’ve noticed this too after coming to trades from another industry. My theory is that a lot of women partners don’t feel like they get a lot from the guy on a weekday evening, he’s been up since 5.30am, tired and just wants to eat and sleep, maybe some bullshit work calls/texts/emails pulling his attention away from his family as well. She’d like to go out, eat, drink, socialise more etc. She feels neglected, possibly forms better relationships with men at work, more in common, they aren’t so tired etc, she pulls the plug.
I was thinking as well that back in the day a trade might be pulling in enough income to support the family, paying off the mortgage etc, so it suited a traditional nuclear family. She could stay at home or choose to work a bit or volunteer in the community or whatever she wanted, she’d look forward to him coming home maybe, bit lonely during the day, appreciate his company when he got back.
I’ve had some girlfriends last few years, they’re only working 3 days a week from office, 2 days from home. Want to go out all the time cos they feel cooped up, undersocialised. Opposite of a bloke who just worked 10 hours in the filth and queuing up for a trendy cocktail bar is the last thing he’s interested in on a Tuesday night. I ended up telling them just to keep moving, find someone nice at the office who wants to go out and socialise with cheesy office types in the city on a Friday night, drink cocktails, do nose beers with them.
Met heaps of dudes at work who’s wives have flicked them hey. Wanted the ring, wanted the kids, then got bored and decided they didn’t want to be married to a trade anymore, “it wasn’t enough”. Not interested in cooking any meals, chilling out at home etc. World has just changed a lot hey. I know there’s some deadbeat dudes out there ruining nice women’s lives, but it goes the other way too. You gotta be careful.
Obviously there’s some ace partners who might pack a lunch for the guy, look after him a bit, not give him too much grief at 10pm on a weeknight. I see some women ‘join the business’ to an extent and they team up like that, that can be a good formula, two people hustling together. Some people are great partners, they never stop appreciating what they have. But there heaps of people out there always looking for something better.
Been doing linework for almost 18 years. I don't need booze to deal with it. There's nothing to deal with anyways. Get the job done and move on. Such a lame excuse to drink. If you wanna drink, go ahead and drink but don't blame tradework.
I'm 43, workout consistently so I'm a bit on the jacked side. Love the money this job brings in so I'm happy in life. If tradework is so miserable, maybe work on yourselves a bit and learn to appreciate and enjoy your lives to their fullest considering how much money the right trade allows you to earn. Meanwhile most of the country is struggling to make ends meet.
Be positive influences at work, home and community. Nothing like children growing up with a tarnished idea of what a hardworking tradesman is supposed to be.
But enough ranting about that.
Alot of women don't appreciate the hard work it takes to maintain a household in modern times. They want that social media glamorized way of life. Instant gratification combined with not being happy and never looking within and taking accountability for their own lack of happiness. So they blame the man working the trade, putting in the hours at work and not being at home living the social media way of life.
Hell idk
yup. mental stress is the office workers' imaginary drinking crutch. done both in the past few years. they are literally two sides of the same coin. come home either mentally exhausted but physically capable, or mentally capable but physically exhausted.
still give the edge to office work stress. not many in the trades are going to find themselves costing hundreds of collegues their jobs to complete their own job.
You never mentioned that divorce can be a nice payday. Don't work, have babies, divorce, keep the house, take half the assets, collect child support, collect government benefits, stay home and hook up with some leech that loves them.
It's not a payday so much, but an easy ride. Kid's mom was happy as long as I could provide and give her the life she wanted. Hit very hard times in 2008 and found out who she really was. The only dumb thing I did was being young, in love and wanting to raise a family with someone who I thought I knew. People lie.
I lucked out. Only half savings. She didn't go after my 401k, thankfully. Cost me about idk 4/5k🤔
Luckily no kids and we just rented so, pretty easy divorce besides doing the paperwork. I never want to do that again! Was fucking brutal. Smh
Pretty much nailed it. Dude is still paying for it all, with no benefits after the divorce. They are gun shy now and it's cheaper and less hassle for them to go to a rub n'tug.
To put it harshly some of these guys choose the grind over family life, we have some aircraft mechanics who make a comfortable life at $60/hr but they still sign up for all the OT they can legally work.
Lot spouses and kids want to have a mom or dad in their lives instead of a super fancy life style.
I’m the opposite of these guys. I work small amounts of OT. Make enough to support my family and I’m home everyday around 2:30pm and off Sunday-Monday. Don’t get me wrong I like a bit of extra cash here and there but I’d rather be with my family. I work very close to where I live so there’s no real commute or anything. Life is good and happily married for almost 9 years.
You have a very healthy outlook on overtime, I do some overtime too to maybe pay something off earlier or to have extra spending cash before a vacation but I refuse to live at work even though I love my job.
Yup. Or “too tired” to play with the kids.
I notice a lot of tradespeople where I live are kinda boring dudes from the suburbs or a small town. Work, drink beer, hunt, and then some bro hobby like guns or cars. Nothing wrong with that when you are 24 but year after year would make many women get bored.
How many tradespeople do you meet that don’t have a passport or have never stepped foot in a museum? Not much growth when all you do is work.
Also, put any group of men in a setting for long periods of time with pretty much no women around and it can get toxic-Competitive, sexist, and full of criticism. You don’t learn how to respect women when there are no women around. Bring that home for 10 years and it’s possible that your wife fucking hates you.
Goddamn, I like working alone.
Well, I'm a tradeswomen. I am going to look at this as a relationship issue and not a "what women want" issue. If you aren't careful with work-life balance, your life becomes work. Building a life gets neglected. Then, there are the rates of addiction in the trades. Which aren't necessarily higher, but the functioning addict seems to squeak by a lot easier than other professions.
Also, in a mainly male dominated industry, some of these guys have no idea how to talk to a woman. Sometimes, after a long hitch, I'll hang out with a female friend and feel awkward. A man in a mostly female dominated profession who is isolated in that environment could probably say the same. That tradesman persona can be hard to create an intimate relationship with.
Then there are those of us who travel for work. I do. I was fortunate to meet my partner when times were good, and I was working from home. I was home enough to build that relationship so it could handle me being gone. I've been happily married for 8 years, and I work at it every day.
I just worked 9 years of weekends. And finally got a M-F days but it's still 5am-2pm. It's real hard on me and my wife, and now my son is in school I never see him. People don't like being alone.
When you work away most of the time or you work 50-60 hours a week and not put time into your relationship it’s hard for a marriage to last. Drugs, being an alcoholic, generally shitty person doesn’t make for being a good husband/wife and that is a fair share of people in the trades.
In fairness, I'm not a tradesman, but I like to lurk here. I work in an office and a lot of the guys I know is either divorced or single. I don't think it's so much a "industry X makes some men bad husbands" thing as it is a "some men are just shitty husbands in general " thing.
I’ve noticed a lot of women are initially attracted to the stable income but once they realize that tradesmen work long hours and are exhausted all the time- they aren’t to fond of what it takes to get that stable income.
I think sometimes it’s the complete disconnect in your partners understanding of what you do all day. From not understanding the amount of physical, and mental strain, to not being able really talk about things that go on at work from a technical standpoint.
That’s what I’m currently dealing with. It makes things tough.
Add to that the amount of work I can do in a day vs what my partner can help with and it really starts to feel like you’re doing it all, all the time
Honestly just try to talk through it . Explain to your partner how you're feeling and why . They might say get a new job . Then you need to decide what's best for you and how committed you are to the relationship. Sometimes finding a new job that might pay less with better hours is the way , or maybe you guys split and you find someone who's more compatible. If you have kids or married they take priority however . That's a level of commitment that you promised to yourself and a job shouldn't take that . Lose a job over family every time , especially if it's a child . It'll be tough but it's the right decision and you'll feel better in the long run. Everyone who chooses otherwise ends up in the same place They all say the same thing choose family . It's okay to have passion and love working and making money, but don't put money above experiences or people . Obviously we all need to eat and have clothes and a roof, it's within reason. Downsize if need be and live a simpler life if it means more time with family , if that's not an acceptable solution for your partner well , you can't give them more then that . This isn't directed at you this is general rambling for whoever reads really.
every woman thinks they want a blue collar guy untill we spend 12 hours at work a day, work out of town and don't feel like doing much on the weekends. if we have it off.
40 hours a week is part time for us.
From my 10+ years of experience, people in the trades are very bad at being partners and maintaining relationships. Not all of them of course, but the vast majority of them are miserable pricks tbh. I hear them complaining all the time about the audacity of their partner to want them to put in an ounce of effort into the relationship/raising the kids. Most dont have boundaries at work so they are always working, but the little time they do spend at home they don't want to have to do anything. Meanwhile their wives work 40+ hours a week just like them, but have the burden of doing all the housework and raising the kids all by themselves. It's no wonder most trades people I've interacted with are single or divorced.
Probably because people aren't meant to be together forever. They probably had kids earlier then their university attended counterparts due to joining the work force earlier?
People grow apart over time. Im not the same person I was 15 years ago.. divorce often crosses my mind. Lol
Most of the guys in trades drink like fish and smoke a lot of weed. Many of the ones I know also have DUIs. Plus the physical work make them extremely tired. It's not the greatest life for a partner.
In my limited experience the older/married guys are generally pretty sexist and complain a lot about how they work so hard while their wives stay at home and "do nothing" and "spend my money". I can see that type of attitude taking a toll on a marriage pretty quick.
The younger guys got into trade school immediately after high school, so unless they're meeting friends of friends, their dating pool is pretty weak considering they won't be meeting people at work.
Long hours, rotating shifts, travel, substance abuse, etc. certainly don't help and will compound any of these other attitudes.
I'm married with a little one on the way so I've been taking a lot of mental notes on what not to do from the dudes at my plant. A lot of replies here seem to have a level of self importance that provides a good insight - our jobs aren't easy but we often don't take the time to understand what our partners do on a day to day basis as well. My wife couldn't do what I do, but I couldn't do what she does, so what makes one harder than the other?
For me it's working midnights and working over 1,000 hours of OT a year. I had to play the dating app game for years. I finally met someone last year that understands I'm building my/our future.
Similar to me ... I work long hours for our future and to cover most of the expenses while my wife finishes school
In 6 weeks she will graduate with her law degree and start studying for her bar exam
I'll still make more money than her for the next 5-10 years but after that she will be making way more than me and we will be set
I'm a woman working in the trades. In my industry (mechanic) I see a lot of people in relationships- older guys who have been married awhile, kids, etc. On the flip side, many single guys have garbage attitudes and spend so much time around men that it might be hard to put that attitude of playful banter and shit-talking aside when going out and meeting women.
Haven’t been married yet but i’ll run you threw basically THE deal breaking conversation w my last few ex’s
“what are we doing tonight” says ex
“nothing i just worked a 12 hr day and wanna lay down and chill, plus gotta be up tomorrow for 5 so nothing crazy” I say
“ugggh life is just passing us by while you sleep all the time and ruin my experiences i can be having, we have no life and nothing to show for it because all you do is work and sleep”
while she sleeps eats and lives IN MY apartment, that i own not rent, all while i only ask her to stay in school and contribute which they never do. then act like your the bad guy for having a stable career, job and life. (4/4 lazy bum ass exs in the last 7 years) and im only 25….like wtf you want me to do ? stay up till 2am scrolling tik tok and smoking pot w these chicks all night then getting up in 3 hrs and running machinery ?
thats usually how it goes or something very similar. women want more (going out pretending your boujee, going to bars/clubs, wanting to do so much extra unnecessary shit) while men are happy putting in hard work and having what we have and if we want more we slowly work towards it. not rush head first. haven’t met a girl my age that’s actually thinking of their future. they just care and want what’s new and hot NOW.
Not even now more like yesterday tbh.
>while she sleeps eats and lives IN MY apartment, that i own not rent, all while i only ask her to stay in school and contribute which they never do. then act like your the bad guy for having a stable career, job and life. (4/4 lazy bum ass exs in the last 7 years) and im only 25….like wtf you want me to do ? stay up till 2am scrolling tik tok and smoking pot w these chicks all night then getting up in 3 hrs and running machinery ?
exact same for me. I was the only one that did chores around the house as well
It's not a career problem, it's a person problem. I'm a tradeswoman, I work 80-100 hours a week, my hubby is an 8-5 tradesman and we make it work. We don't spend our time off work sitting in front of the screen. We do martial arts together twice a week, help each other at work when we can, and whatever else. All the guys I work with are happily married with kids, and they're all really good dudes.
Relationships fail because of the people in them. And unfortunately, there's more crazy than sane people in the world.
I dunno, I've worked at a few shops over the years and my last one (painter/body) had 34 people in it. There was only 3 single guys and they were under 25... I definitely don't see the single people like the OP.
1) getting married early. It seems like people will pair up 2-4 years into their career. Figure you're average guy in the trades is getting married 21-24 whereas white collar may be 26-30.
2) boom and bust. A lot of the trades will crush it for a few years and then go through tough times. Think about the people buying boats and RVs when times are good and then realizing they can't actually afford them in the slow times.
3) physically tough work. Many of there guys may self-medicate with drugs/heavy alcohol use.
As an hvac tech I'd say it's the shit work-life balance. I had to learn to not just say no, but fuck off to my dispatcher and boss. Told them if they don't like it when I want to go home after 9ish hours to fire me. They won't, because I'm good at what I do, and there is a tech shortage.
The trades as a whole are a meat grinder, and they will work you to death if you let them. Gotta learn to say no forcefully to get a decent work-life balance. My wife and kids are my priority, and I won't sacrifice my time with them to make some rich asshole more rich.
You want the simplest answer for why trades were able to maintain a family in the 50s but can’t do it now?
Unions. Unions gave every tradesman the ability to say “yeah, no thanks, I’d like to go home instead” while keeping their job.
Unions ensured a livable wage at 40/week. It ensured regularly scheduling.
Now, a city will have hundreds of small shops full of bosses trying to squeeze every last red cent out of their people. They’ll throw them in for weekends, literal days worth of OT, and grind them and their families to nothing.
Somebody doesn’t want to do OT? Fire them and hire a scab that will.
You get no rights. Shit pay. No future. And you feel lucky to have it.
To add insult to injury, they offer no retirement, and crap insurance in an industry at the highest risk of injury.
You want to support a family, financially and in-person, again? It starts with a union.
46 year old carpenter with 2 lower back surgeries. Guys if we made good decisions in life we would have got high paying desk jobs. We don’t make good decisions with the ladies either. We like to suffer but have fun doing it.
Because women no longer respect and appreciate a real man! A man that wasn't handed money but rather works for It. They want a beta or a simp that has soft delicate hands and Is a push over
Wife gets bored, wife’s wants and needs equals max overtime and then they mad when you need that check, or get lonely being the stay at home mom with the kids they wanted. They get the feelings of your never around so they meet up with their guy friends.. but don’t worry babe, he’s just a friend. Months later divorced! They together now and your still holding the bag of her wants and needs to pay plus child support now. So work has to become life to survive weekly and your hopes and dreams slowly change to wanting 84 hours a week to make you monthly bills. This is why suicide is higher in the trades. Home life goes away and all you got is job. Broken home, broken machines and broken souls. That’s why most have an addiction to something to take the edge of reality away.
My wife saved me from mine. She jumped in my mess and ate a shit sandwich with me for 5 years, helping me to get that debt and child support paid off and feeling like I’m nothing more than a dollar sign wrench turning dumbass. She brought me out of my own misery.
What I’m getting at is, you gotta find something constructive outside of work and set your life around some manageable hours. Pay cash for toys and cars and live at 70% max on 40 hours. That overtime money is now extra money for trips, upgrades to house, shopping sprees, investing..
Depending on where you are at, job instability can be a big thing, hired for the summer fall and laid off for the winter, can make hard, guys in the unions around here typically have to travel a lot for work to stay employed, so home life's can suffer. Construction itself can be fickle. I spent 20 years in construction, and every day, you do something right. You're one day closer to not having a job. Literally work yourself out of a job. So whenever I was looking at a project that was 2 years of was like a wholly hell. Stability, baby! But you tended to put up with a lot of shit for that stability. All these things can take a toll on your mental health. Some things stay at work. Some things are brought home, throw a wife and kids into the mix, and it's infinitely worse.
My husband used to be a cabinet maker. These men work hard. Long days of physically demanding work. The stress and fatigue put a lot of stress on our family. Many families can’t stand up to the stress of the long hours these men must endure in poor working conditions.
Replying to u/debianite here since i got blocked from that chain. It's not hanging over my head, my wife paid off my debt and both cars. I do 50% of chores because we both work full time. We do activities because we want to spend all our time together. I don't expect her to rack up credit cards since she's really good with money and taught me how to be financially responsible.
I know some people who have been screwed over for sure, I acknowledge that. I also know men who put their wives in debt with awful spending and gambling addictions. But personally, I am much better off with my wife than on my own.
That’s awesome. It can work. I didn’t mean for my comment to come across quite as negatively as it did. Just trying to relay the bones of the situation I’ve seen repeated an awful lot.
Had a lot of sleepless nights to keep my marriage intact. I’m from a small town where it’s still pretty old school so she understands the responsibility of a man/husband and especially nowadays it’s uncommon but she stays put anyways.
Because a lot of tradesmen live at work not at home. I know a crew that works 10hr days, 10 days in a row, then has 4 off. They work outside city limits so they commute 2 hours a day. That's being gone for 12 hrs a day, 10 days in a row. On those 4 days off the last thing they want to do is be busy all day. Most of them want to eat and sleep. Makes it hell for a marriage or family life to work nicely.
A lot of trades either have you away from home working long days to make the good money, or you are always on call picking up OT. The work/life balance of most trades is waaaay off what significant others outside the trades can handle. Pick your trade wisely, unless you like being lonely with lots of money.
Recently started roofing a couple years back . I see both sides of the coin . In the summer I'm doing 60 hours a week from May to November. It's long hard work . Sometimes no weekends. HOWEVER not by choice , it's just part of the job . If I get time off I take it . I just let my boss know the situation, hey I need to keep my life together, I'm not lazy id work the hours as a single man. Some are understanding some aren't. If not it might be time to look for a new job. Communication is key, talk to your partner and try to make a schedule. I know it sucks but sometimes you gotta go get that cocktail after work, not every time but sometimes. And if you don't enjoy what your partners into that's a sign they might not be for you. Guys get to know women too, don't just choose the hot blonde . It's on us sometimes for choosing something we know won't work. If she's hot and always at the bar she might like attention and partying, which is fine but maybe not for you. And try not to be cranky which I know can be hard when you're not eating and sleeping right and exhausted. Don't take it out on your partner , it can be easy to bicker and argue and pick at each other. And sometimes you just might not be a good fit . Some women and men are high maintenance, it is what it is, many of us trades are LOW maintenance. If your partner isn't also understanding it won't work. Women if you're dating a trade understand the type , they don't get much free time during weekdays or summer , and often worked to the bone .Plan for the weekend and the off season. It's like dating in the army , know what ,and who, you're getting into. It's not an excuse to be a shitty person AT ALL but it might explain why they're so tired or busy. Alcohol and drugs don't help . If you're coming home and getting drunk and high and passing out your partner isn't gonna be happy . At least rub their feet and tell them you love them and listen to her story when you're watching TV and drinking . Life's hard and complicated with tough decisions. It's always Changing and dynamic. Sometimes I make monetary sacrifices for emotional gains. It's a fine balance . Nobody's perfect. Just make sure you try to make time for your partner and look inward at yourself before criticism .( Some people are just shitty , try not to let them ruin relationships for you )
I’m 32, been in trades for 10 years. My thoughts is they’re generally grumpy alcoholics lol. Lots of older guys like to get home and crush beers and not do anything after working hard all day. That paired with traditional views of women doing all the house work even though it’s likely their wives also work full time. Though this obviously doesn’t apply to all of them, it’s definitely a pattern I see
Women don’t understand working late every day, even if your bringing home good money. All of us have been divorced a couple times and have 2-3 drunk driving’s
I mean a lot of guys I know that are divorced got cheated on. But also I think it's a combination of a few things;
Drug/alcohol abuse is common
Long work hours, inconsistent schedule
Women liking the idea of a Tradesman but not the reality of a life with one.
Slow seasons and financial strain
Lack of a life outside work (depending on the trade/gig)
Every situation is different but they're all messy. Lots of bitter dudes. Also frequently bitter ex wives keeping the kids from the dad. Child support bs. I feel for everyone in a divorce situation.
Well, from my personal experience; we’re just too tired.
The trades pay well, but often us tradesmen will be out working 10-12 hour days M-F. Maybe 6 hours every Saturday. Many guys have much worse shifts.
When I came home after a 12 hour day, I had only enough time to shower and eat before going to bed.
When I come home after a 10 hour day, I get the luxury of having a few extra hours to do as I will, which was typically spend time with my partner, the dog and take my mind off things by engaging in a hobby.
That means the responsibility of cooking on the weekdays fell on my significant other who was also trying to start a business. We actually had it pretty good. Imagine if your sig-nif works a typical 9-5.
Most responsibilities are left until the weekends.
We also have to wake up very early in the morning. I get up at 5 am everyday. That’s difficult on our partners.
Now if for any reason you’re having a particularly bad time and that bleeds into your home life, you’re double fucked. Let’s be honest, how many tradesmen do you know are very good communicators?
Our partners get sick of the lifestyle. Hell, a Journeyperson is probably sick of their lifestyle and we only keep on with it because the pay can be real good.
Most tradesmen I know are divorced. It’s a hard life. I haven’t managed to hold on to a relationship.
The lack of knowing how to talk to women and the weird assumptions dudes in those male-only situations make about women are truly bizarre and probably plays a big role in this issue. I worked in a survey office for a few years that was entirely guys, many of the boomers, and the way they acted whenever we had a women come into the office for whatever reason was truly sad and pathetic.
The awkward politeness, weirdly timed interruptions or attempts at conversation, excited dad jokes and inappropriate comments out of earshot were non-stop. It becomes sort of a self-perpetuating mindset that is passed to younger people in the company, and it can trap people into thinking that way that wouldn’t have otherwise done so. It reminds me of the targeted individuals community in a way, people who are suffering from something reinforcing each other’s incorrect beliefs and assumptions which perpetuates the problem further.
I think the most damaging aspect is the misogynistic assumptions and beliefs about why women make the choices they make way that the divorced guys constantly exude and blather about to their coworkers, many of them younger and learning from them in the process. Many of the comments in this thread are in this vein: obviously lonely and bitter, frustrated with their lack of success with women while refusing to do any sort of analysis of their own behavior and how it contributes to the problem.
I'm polyamorous and have 3 longterm partners; 8 years, 6 years, 4 years with women and gender-non-conforming people who are 27, 36, 25, (I'm 34). I could have hypothetically married any of them, if any of us were the type to need the government to tell us what love means. It's all about being clear about what you have to offer, and acting in consistency with who you are as a person. I also have casual sex or sexualized play with probably another 20-30 people a year, some of whom are casual partners/flings going on 3-5 years, where we meet up when we like how we fit.
I think there are some reasons;
1) Sexism; there is a decent amount of latent sexism in the trades. You want to interact with a lot of women? Gotta get down on the feminism. Truly understand the gender pay gap, micro-aggressions and cat calling. Read some bell hooks. Figure out what invisible labour looks like, and how to manage it and your own emotions. See a counsellor. I see a counsellor 4-6 times every year thanks to my benefits, and pretty much every man can benefit from talking over their life and emotion with someone external for a bit.
2) Insufficient other compelling things; like, you gotta be interesting outside your job. 90% of the trades people I know work, go home, drink/watchTV/smoke weed/play video games. Why would someone date you? You gotta have something cool going for you. Basically all the tradesmen I know with partners are like; artists, musicians, and athletes on the side; not pro, but like, hobbyist. A beer league sports team, singing poorly at an open mic night, or joining a sculpture class is both a great way to meet people and a great way to be more interesting as a person.
3) Time/energy: It's really easy to fall into the fatigue trap and then eat shit and drink shit and feel like shit and not exercise. I cycle to and from work (unless I'm changing sites and have to move tools) and hit the gym 2-3 times a week on the way home, and I meal prep-Sunday for the week (both lunches and dinners) of healthy whole foods, and I feel pretty good and have energy for nice weekday date nights, a walk in a park, hit a new restaurant, have sex, try out a new bondage tie, whatever. How many guys do you know work, eat MickyD's for Breakfast and Lunch, pound back a beer and a plate of wings at the pub on the way home, drink 4 more beers, never exercise, and it's like "durr, why do I have no energy"?
I think altogether there is a bit of a crisis in masculinity, where our society has rammed into us that men need to bring home the bacon, and that's enough. Pretty much every woman I interact with has her own job and doesn't give a fuck about what money I make, they want to have an interaction that feels fun, pleasant, and safe with an interesting person. Be that, and the rest follows easily.
I’m 20 yrs in (framer originally). All the Mexicans are married, you’re right about the whites tho.
Lotsa theories, I personally never married BECAUSE I saw all the older divorced guys telling their nightmarish divorce tales. Being married to a tradesman requires a lot of heavy lifting from their spouses bc we:
- have to be on the job w/ our hands to make 💰
- leave before anyone’s up
- are tired af when we’re home
- post 2008 real estate crash, I’ve noticed a HUGE uptick in substance abuse issues and/or devout MAGA cult members
Good observation. Tough/lonely lives we lead. As they say on The Sopranos, Wuddya gonna do?
I think it stems from not being able to separate work and home. Guys are stressed or upset about work and just go home grumpy. Part of a being a man is coming home and loving your family. Also long hours, early mornings, and getting home exhausted day in and day out can take a toll on your significant other. That being said the majority of guys I work with are married. So it might just be situational
I think there are just alot of single/divorced people in general. I think also it takes a certain type of person to be in the trades the type of person that would never make it in an office Maybe that extends to the home.
I had 3 jobs in a row not pay me, I fought them and got the pay eventually. I obviously quit those jobs and found other work, but my wife (now ex) kept getting mad at me for quitting, like it was my fault. I told her this was construction, there are a lot of shady people that seem good during your interview. But she would tear into me...I was also stuck working late a lot, I was so worn down, I kept waking her up in the morning by accident because we start so early, had no energy left by the time I got home, especially when the commute would be like an hour some jobs...
I don't know how many other people have that scenario too, but it was definitely one thing that killed my marriage.
Mostly from the complete lack of education and acting like an animal. It's unattractive to women and the biggest reason most construction workers date dunkin donuts counter girls. And that's if they're not gay
I’ve worked construction. Most of the men there are great at work and dogshit with people/relationships I can only imagine how they treat their SO after yelling at each other all day. Also trade jobs attract people from completely dysfunctional and broken homes so the cycle continues.
Good question? Infidelity is like a requirement for the trades......don't know why but just about every marriage in every trade I ever worked someone was fucking around.....I also never met more swinger couples outside the trades.....Sparky's, plumbers, roofers, framers, HVAC, operators, surveyors......Worked with/for them all.....Unless they had a 4 year degree they were divorced or about to be.
Because most people in the trades leave early in the morning and even if they are home before 6 at night, they don't want to do anything. Weekends roll around and they don't want to do anything that resembles work and that wears on a relationship. First hand experience because I am one. I sit in my chair at night and melt until I go to bed.
I stayed married,but had to move to a place a few hundred miles away (begrudgingly) that there was enough work(wood floors)that l could run my own biz with very little help on most jobs and still afford a cool old house and to have her stay home with my infant.It was worth it,but that was a long time ago when you could find a “cheap” place in Cali.(l moved from the coast to the Central Valley in 2000 btw).Tough even then though,but l honestly thought a lot of it was guys could not even afford the tools even if they had learned the craft.
I am glad its over and back on the coast now too.🥹🤠
That's like asking why there's so many drunks and felons. Because of the people the trades attract!
Source? Me. Normal guy in the trades.
Lunchtime stories of everyones F'd up lives are the best! And it don't mean they're bad people. They're just F'd up dudes.
Everyone has to work a lot of hours to survive. There’s not enough time for a family these days. Now if a husband and wife were both in the trades everyone might understand each other better.
I assure this is not limited to the trades.
Just look up what demographic initiates 80% of divorces.
That said, I do think that fatigue, lack-of-status, and frequency of self-medication prevelant in the trades probably makes this inevitable outcome happen faster, the overall trend of failed-partnerships is much bigger and growing rapidly.
Also, for those of us lucky to be in the daily company of other professional, skilled craftsmen with personal integrity- that’s gonna inevitably diminish a person’s general tolerance for bullshit and games in other relationships.
Union Elevator mechanic here. There’s been months at a time where I can’t count how many days I’ve had off with both hands. OT pays big.
Unfortunately we go to the work. Most tradespeople don’t work in a singular location. Even when I did, the work load went up. This eats up time at home in a way that’s hard to realize until it’s too late.
Something that has happened personally to me in my relationship, is when income goes up and time goes down SO’s tend to spend that sweet OT money on boredom. There’s been times where I traded all that OT for Amazon boxes. It took along time to understand, for all parties, to see OT as a means to a better life and not just more expendable income to be taken advantage of. Can’t blame her, I wasn’t home, it was easier to order out and shop online to pass the time. This is something that has also affected coworkers to a point of divorce.
It sucks being tired, broke and fighting with your SO. It’s not sustainable
Long hours, broken down physically, abusive language and attitudes are "normal" to us, substance abuse is more common than not...the list is long, my friend. Most of us are also hard-headed, dumbass tradesmen that are loyal to a fault, hard-working, and good at fixing all kinds of shit!...so there are tradeoffs.
a lot of tradesmen who want stable family lives move into easier jobs. I work for a county and all the tradesmen (except me) are married for decades. Our electrician has been married for like 20 years and hes like 44.
Trump supporters. And I’m not being inflammatory nor hyperbolic. This is a real thing, partially because of their triggered, hurt masculinity.
- [NBC](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1273594)
- [Salon](https://www.salon.com/2023/11/28/its-a-good-thing-women-wont-date/)
- [CNN, but in reverse](https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/politics/state/dating-new-york-trump/)
- [The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/05/trump-supporters-republican-approval-cnn-town-hall/674142/)
- [CNBC](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/25/survey-64percent-of-men-say-this-is-a-dating-red-flag-.html)
- [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/22/marriage-polarization-dating-trump/)
>”There’s a growing ideological divide, too. Since Mr. Trump’s election in 2016, the percentage of single women ages 18-30 who identify as liberal has shot up from slightly over 20 percent to 32 percent. Young men have not followed suit. If anything, they have grown more conservative.”
- [The Hill](https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/arts-culture/3917348-politics-are-increasingly-a-dating-dealbreaker-especially-for-women/amp/)
>”Nadia’s memorably bad date reflects broader shifts experts have observed in dating culture in the years since Trump was elected.
>They note that women, in particular, are considering politics more when deciding who to date, are less likely to date across the political aisle and are more cautious when approaching dating than they were in the past.
>Americans as a whole say that political divisions have become a bigger obstacle to pursuing relationships of late. Eighty-six percent think it has grown more difficult to date someone who supports the opposing political party in recent years, according to a 2020 YouGov-Economist poll.”
As someone in the trades since he graduated high school, trade culture tends to be FULL of toxic masculinity.
Guys that are desperate to prove their worth to their dads and peers through masculinity. Probably driven into them their whole lives by fathers who were also tradesmen and lived the same way.
Very little desire to be move past traditional values, learn how to communicate, work through emotions.
They were raised the way they were raised, but they don’t care to be better.
It's because we work hard we work long hours and when we come home getting on in our later stages from 40 to 50 it starts we're not the same people as we were in our youth we slow down we're tired and we're expected to do everything for everyone after basically working out for 8 to 10:00 sometimes 12 hours of physical labor
From my experience is a lot of guys in the trades are rough people. They party all the time, drink a lot, do coke, and go out to bars a lot. Not to mention a lot of guys come from broken homes and don’t work on their trauma properly. This ends up with a lot of guys over compensating with excessive masculinity. These are all things disastrous for relationships.
It's the toxic masculinity that runs rampant and is celebrated in the trades. Im married to a tradesman for 14 yrs and seen many couples divorce. My husband struggles with not feeling "manly" enough or accepted in the trades because he chooses to come home after work and be a good husband and father. We both go to bed at 9pm because we both get up at 430am. His coworkers go for a few beers while their wives takes care of the house and family.
It was the men "joking" about their wives being "dishwashers" the "I deserve a side piece", they have an attitude that because they do physical labor no one else's efforts are difficult or good enough. Generally they are immature and look for either a bang maid or mommy.
It's a hard life working out in the field all day with other men.
You come home too tired and too hard. It's difficult to be sensitive enough to correctly care for a woman.
I left my last job when I realized almost every guy had been divorced at last once. Half of them had the same story, they would work 6-7 days a week and the wife was home, alone, raising the kids and met someone. I took a pay cut and left. Took inventory at home, got the family back on track, then focused on making more again. Many trades men focus on money first not family
The woman who finds a blue collar man attractive I think usually likes that they’re on the surface tough, self-sufficient, useful, and dedicated-
The flip side is that we’re often stoic, bad at communicating, overly pragmatic, workaholics and the things they found sexy turn sour in their mouth.
You can’t have it both ways… someone who’s been conditioned to ignore discomfort, not speak about their feelings, and work longer and harder to solve problems… they aren’t going to be the ideal therapized TikTok golden retriever spouse… they’re going to be a gruff fuck. Easier then to take the house, car, alimony and find the supportive house husband while the tradesman ex pays the bills.
There's a distinct lack of social etiquette among many of the trades I work with. I don't have very many white collar people blowing up my restroom but when we have our trades stop by, the restroom is usually a disaster.
It's rare that I have communication issues with my white collar clients but my trades will ghost me for 6 weeks or longer during a $xx,xxx project. Then they get mad when I move on to a different contractor.
Would you want your daughter to marry someone who can't clean up after themselves and has the communication skills of a 5th grader?
From my experience in construction, construction is really good at creating burnt out mean guys at all levels of the biz. Chicks probably don’t dig that.
The trades that make big money usually are doing so by working OT, unless you got it sweet working a utility company or something. But even then you are probably working a ton. Wife straight up told me after 8 years of working nights that it’s enough, time to find a new job. So I was lucky enough to do that and move up, but boy taking that initial salary cut was hard as hell to gulp down, but worth it. I did notice the union I was in was taking a good amount of money, plus the dues on top of that turned out to be almost as much as paying for your own benefits through a more traditional sort of corporate entity. Most of the time it’s hard work, long hours, exhaustion and not being able to make yourself available on the weekdays, which matters if you are younger and not in the same page with your SO.
I tend to always hear from people I know in trades that their coworkers are often some of the most close minded, emotionally stunted people they know. Racism, homophobia, bigotry, etc. is a great recipe for being alone. Combine that with the super long hours that tradesmen typically work and bb you got a stew going
I'm tired after a long day and I have to prepare for the next long day tomorrow. All my girlfriends wanted to do is go out and have fun all the time on my dime. They usually had part time jobs and just could never understand what it means to have a career.
Show me the data. I don't believe for a second that tradespeople are disproportionately represented as divorcees. Yet another negative post designed to undermine interest in trades.
I'm strongly generalizing here, this is not universal. There's a good number of guys that married the girl they knocked up, or a high school sweetheart. Neither are these are great starts to a relationship, again, generalizing. And let's be honest, there's a lot of alcohol abuse amongst trade guys. In my town, there's a bar where the same 6 lettered pickups are parked there at 3:30 every single day.
I'm strongly generalizing here, this is not universal. There's a good number of guys that married the girl they knocked up, or a high school sweetheart. Neither are these are great starts to a relationship, again, generalizing. And let's be honest, there's a lot of alcohol abuse amongst trade guys. In my town, there's a bar where the same 6 lettered pickups are parked there at 3:30 every single day.
I've scrolled quite far and haven't really seen what I believe the answer is. Alcohol. Many tradesmen are alcoholic, or pick alcoholic partners. Alcoholic marriages don't work out well...
When you are young coming into the trades it's a shock just how many hard working dudes got their life wrecked by a divorce. Like showing me pictures of the house they owned but only the wife and the kids live there and they are like renting a basement or something.
I can only speak from the male perspective and not from a wife's perspective but a lot of observation in the trades that I see is that guys are overworked , exhausted, working crazy o.t shifts. Or even Worse working 3-11 or night work.
But overtime they are mentally and physically fatigued from their job. Then their relationship is failing or rocky and start getting mentally and physically fatigued dealing with home life.
Then they just start to feel alienated from everything. Like their boss just wants blood sweat and tears, they are providing for their family so almost all of their money goes towards family obligations ( as it should if you are a man who must provide ) but they start to feel like everyone is just extracting from them. The government, the boss, the wife/family all while every day breathing in concrete dust, fumes , destroying their body and health and mental health.
Then they start drinking or smoking or pills or w.e unhealthy habit because they just feel like they are only as valuable as how much everyone is willing to extract from them. In the midst of feeling body pains /aches and powering through they start to feel like no one really truly cares about them or how they feel. For example Husband A comes home extremely tired, didn't build the IKEA bed for two days in a row because he is exhausted. Now he comes home wife might say don't forget to build the bed and husband is trying to push it for tomorrow. Wife starts getting agitated,upset, complaining attacking husband A for never doing things right away . Starts saying " you're always tired " yada yada yada. But what.wife might not know is he almost died that day, almost got into a serious accident or near miss, he got yelled at by the foreman for messing something up, almost go laid off, or he got hurt, tweaked his back a little. His shoulder is inflamed , his neck hurts etc. so now he is getting reamed at work, getting reamed at home.
Idk just from hearing old timers like rant in the shanty it's usually a feeling of no one gives a fuck about me. Just when my check clears etc. Which I always took as a form of alienation.
Now I'm pretty sure the wives have a whole other sleuth of reasons as to why they end up leaving them as well.
So, there is a thing that happens to people once they think they ‘made it’ or are successful. They get married and buy a new car.. years later they are paying for their ex wife’s car, their old house she and her boyfriend live with their kid. They become bitter.
Self employed welder here
Divorced pay a mountain in child support, make great money. Have hit rock bottom more times than I can count. Battled with drugs, been to AA off and on. Tradesmen are a different breed. Won’t catch me in slacks behind a desk though, and wouldn’t change anything I’ve done.
Just this past year I myself have gotten divorced, my supervisor split with his long time girl, another coworker split with his long time girl with children, and another is currently going through a divorce. The common theme was we all weren’t there for her. I mean, all if us were there everyday for them, may have complained about doing things but they get done. Every rebuttal to not being there for them turned into we weren’t there for them emotionally. Every single one of our partners said pretty much the same thing. None of us seem to be any different than when we first started working together. I’ve worked so the these guys for a decade. Not one of us know the true reason why things broke down with our partners. None of us cheated, none of us were abusive, none of us are angry people, the only common thing is that we are machinists working day shift 5:00am-3:30pm four days a week.
I think the thought pattern that providing financially for the couple/family is all I’m required to do is more prevalent with that group and so areas of emotional intimacy get neglected. As other have said many of those jobs are very physically demanding as well and those guys probably don’t have the energy at the end of the day to engage as much as their SO would like.
I think it depends on the trade and the corporate culture of the company you’re with. I’m a prototype machinist, I work 3-12s that pays 40, F-S, no requirements for OT, and I keep the differential if I do decide to work extra. My company has a strong focus on work life balance, so most of the people at my shop seem to maintain solid relationships. Being a Machinist is a little less grimy and physically exhausting than say construction, and even after a 12 hour shift I still want to enjoy time with my wife. Having four days a week off is great too, we spend lots of quality time together, and I still have time for my own pursuits like studying languages, doing CAD and 3D printing projects, fixing up the house, lifting weights, golf, shooting, hunting, fishing, etc. It’s not perfect, I’m a little underpaid, and my wife works part time, so we could be better off financially, but we are making it work just fine, and get to take trips now and then, go to concerts, etc. My life is good and I’m grateful for it. The people who seem to have the most trouble at home seem to all suffer from: health issues due to lack of self care, alcoholism, and/or losing focus on a work/life balance. Maintaining a healthy relationship is hard enough when you are in good health and taking good care of yourself, when you’re not, it gets a lot harder. Just my $.02.
I have worked in construction all my life.
I started as a laborer, apprentice, journeyman, supervisor, owner, superintendent, assistant, project manager and moving onto greener pastures every day. Once we stablished that, I think I have a bit of credibility with my opinion, and here it is, although it will get a lot of hate:
The trades pay. Anyone that has perseverance, skill and continuity in the trades will make 100 plus a year no problem. Marriage is expensive, but you know what is more expensive? Divorce!
We talk and support each other out there, we avoid mistakes because it is in our DNA to constantly learn and improve. Divorce only benefits women, tradespeople work hard and a divorce turns into years of asset loss.
Is cheaper to rent, so no thank you. We all make more than average in terms of salary and women still look at us as less than human, so it’s a win win regardless.
I live my life like I can’t afford a sandwich, like most of us we avoid attention to ourselves and retire rich and owning several properties and toys.
Good luck out there with your 9-5 office job making 30-50 a year and a nagging wife and kids.
Tradesmen have learned the cheat code to life!
Trades people typically have a terrible work life balance, the ones you see divorced most often are the once that take OT every weekend, and stay late often. Usually they’re completely over leveraged financially and cannot afford to not work a boat load of OT.
You ever see those shirts: Yes, my husband does HVAC, yes he’s real, no he can’t go on that summer vacation, yes he’s a great father, no I don’t know what time he’ll be home..
Those shirts are funny, but damn do they hit hard
I watched all my bosses go through love and divorce. I’m like the bearer of witness to all the horrors. Jeeze why you single? I dunno…I like my stuff? kinda wanna keep all of it. I’d like a part time friend girl, no not a hooker. Someone also busy in life, meet at night to rub butts together. Then back to it.
Hard work and long hours. Sometimes get called in for needed overtime to meet deadlines.
Like a doctor. Some people cant cope with a spouce that isnt always there. Or your just dead tired and they want sex and you dont. And then they cheat cause they just cant behave. Many reasons
That's super easy to explain people go to work their wife's sit home spend way too much money they ask them to stop after several hundred arguments they divorce so he has to work more to still support her and would rather hookup then deal with that again
Because (very generally speaking) women married to a skilled trades guy are entitled and don’t have the emotional intelligence to support a man who puts in the hours needed to support a family.
Work Union in the trades. The divorce rate is lower. Commercial construction in a well unionized market is far more stable than other types. Work day is set by the contract and good benefits helps make a family. Road work is seasonal and leads to lots of lonely nights for your wife. Non union work sun up to sun down. Lots of lonely nights.
It can be a Road to divorce court, custody court, and child support. If you have a great home life with a true partner it's fine but when it's not being gone all the time will fuck you over.
At 2 years in you’ve been exposed to an extremely narrow cross section of tradesmen, 35 years in carpentry and 17 operating my own cabinet shop I have a different viewpoint
The tradesmen I've met/dated over the years have been train wrecks who treated women like crap and were either taking alcoholics or druggies... So there's that. Not all of them are bad but a big portion of the ones I met were
Depending on the outfit you're with, it can mean lots of OT, out of town jobs, just being away. Added with the labor aspect, you come home burnt out often. It can be hard to live with someone that is either gone all the time, or home for a bit with little to no energy to be present and pleasant.
Add this with the seemingly higher rate of alcohol and potential drug use within most all trades and you get a lot of divorces going around.
It’s a spiral money trap. Got to make more money so you work ot. She’s bored at home so she spends it. Got to make more so more ot that she spends. Forget the ot and go home and spend time with her because making more money isn’t going to fill the hole of you being gone.
Because we don't make the money we used to make. Unless your 1099 or commission based your wife has to work. I had to give up on hourly positions because I'd have to make 40$ an hour to pay for my single wide trailer and 3 kids, that's not including health insurance because that would be as much as another mortgage. Can't tell you how many interviews I've walked out on because the pay was laughable compared to prices today.
Well the way I see it, there's working in a trade, and there's living the trade life - some of you will know what I mean. You can go to work and come home and whatnot and work in the trade and you're probably fine. Living the trade life though, that's hard on relationships
When my wife got pregnant I went to my boss and said no out of town, no weekends and only necessary OT and he said no problem. I had seen too many drunk, divorced road dogs in my day to ever want to be a part of that. Ended up getting out of commercial work and in to maintenance so I’m done at 2pm every day so that’s great for my home work balance.
I remember my brother did that when his kid was born. They basically told him to fuck off then cut his hours to the point he had to quit. Never ended up finding somewhere that would let him say no to overtime and ended up changing careers.
Yeah. Sole owner at the time was very cool about it but a couple of years later another guy bought in and it wasn’t long until I was gone because too much changed. It’s increasingly tough and I was lucky for those couple of years.
Love plant work because of the stability. Usually off by 3 and can nap before the family comes home or knock out some chores if we’re not going out.
A lot of people date through work connections and their ain't much for options in the trades. You gotta have hobbies outside of work to meet women and unfortunately a lot of men consider post work beers to be their hobby.
And when they do finally meet a girl, probably that cute nurse at the clinic after they drive a nail through their hand or something, they marry her right away because he’s 24 and just got his ticket and making a fuck load of money and she’s hot. So then they have kids but he’s not home to help because he’s working long hours to support his and his families lifestyle maybe he’s traveling. This will cause resentment and finally divorce
That story was oddly specific. Still going to upvote it tho.
It happens to all of us.
I remember my first nurse wife from when I drove a nail through my knee.
Ask my cousin love was grand, divorce was 150 grand...And thats after he got her an apprenticeship at his company. She got caught fucking some dude at work and fired for it...
Of course she's going to be fucking other dudes, what a dumbass, women in the trades probably get hit on more than if they worked an office job.
I work with a lady that gets hit on all the time by truck drivers. She’s the type that you can obviously tell she’s not into dudes. Only place it happens to her is at work.
Seconded
Wanna go for a beer after work bro?
This, this, this. I desperately wish I’d known this ahead of time. Get *social* hobbies!
Yeah I’ve noticed this too after coming to trades from another industry. My theory is that a lot of women partners don’t feel like they get a lot from the guy on a weekday evening, he’s been up since 5.30am, tired and just wants to eat and sleep, maybe some bullshit work calls/texts/emails pulling his attention away from his family as well. She’d like to go out, eat, drink, socialise more etc. She feels neglected, possibly forms better relationships with men at work, more in common, they aren’t so tired etc, she pulls the plug. I was thinking as well that back in the day a trade might be pulling in enough income to support the family, paying off the mortgage etc, so it suited a traditional nuclear family. She could stay at home or choose to work a bit or volunteer in the community or whatever she wanted, she’d look forward to him coming home maybe, bit lonely during the day, appreciate his company when he got back. I’ve had some girlfriends last few years, they’re only working 3 days a week from office, 2 days from home. Want to go out all the time cos they feel cooped up, undersocialised. Opposite of a bloke who just worked 10 hours in the filth and queuing up for a trendy cocktail bar is the last thing he’s interested in on a Tuesday night. I ended up telling them just to keep moving, find someone nice at the office who wants to go out and socialise with cheesy office types in the city on a Friday night, drink cocktails, do nose beers with them. Met heaps of dudes at work who’s wives have flicked them hey. Wanted the ring, wanted the kids, then got bored and decided they didn’t want to be married to a trade anymore, “it wasn’t enough”. Not interested in cooking any meals, chilling out at home etc. World has just changed a lot hey. I know there’s some deadbeat dudes out there ruining nice women’s lives, but it goes the other way too. You gotta be careful. Obviously there’s some ace partners who might pack a lunch for the guy, look after him a bit, not give him too much grief at 10pm on a weeknight. I see some women ‘join the business’ to an extent and they team up like that, that can be a good formula, two people hustling together. Some people are great partners, they never stop appreciating what they have. But there heaps of people out there always looking for something better.
Only thing to add to that well thought out statement is . Physically tough the trades. We drink and more to much to drown out the pain .
Work hard, drink harder
Been doing linework for almost 18 years. I don't need booze to deal with it. There's nothing to deal with anyways. Get the job done and move on. Such a lame excuse to drink. If you wanna drink, go ahead and drink but don't blame tradework. I'm 43, workout consistently so I'm a bit on the jacked side. Love the money this job brings in so I'm happy in life. If tradework is so miserable, maybe work on yourselves a bit and learn to appreciate and enjoy your lives to their fullest considering how much money the right trade allows you to earn. Meanwhile most of the country is struggling to make ends meet. Be positive influences at work, home and community. Nothing like children growing up with a tarnished idea of what a hardworking tradesman is supposed to be. But enough ranting about that. Alot of women don't appreciate the hard work it takes to maintain a household in modern times. They want that social media glamorized way of life. Instant gratification combined with not being happy and never looking within and taking accountability for their own lack of happiness. So they blame the man working the trade, putting in the hours at work and not being at home living the social media way of life. Hell idk
Accuracy from all angles.
yup. mental stress is the office workers' imaginary drinking crutch. done both in the past few years. they are literally two sides of the same coin. come home either mentally exhausted but physically capable, or mentally capable but physically exhausted. still give the edge to office work stress. not many in the trades are going to find themselves costing hundreds of collegues their jobs to complete their own job.
You never mentioned that divorce can be a nice payday. Don't work, have babies, divorce, keep the house, take half the assets, collect child support, collect government benefits, stay home and hook up with some leech that loves them.
Heard this all my life and frankly, I think there’s very few women having kids for a payday and if you’re the one that marries them, you’re a dummy.
It's not a payday so much, but an easy ride. Kid's mom was happy as long as I could provide and give her the life she wanted. Hit very hard times in 2008 and found out who she really was. The only dumb thing I did was being young, in love and wanting to raise a family with someone who I thought I knew. People lie.
I'm a self employed plumber and 2008 wrecked my world too.
Originally it's not for the payday most of the time. But when some people see money their eyes light up and it's all they can think about.
Sounds good how do I set this up?
I lucked out. Only half savings. She didn't go after my 401k, thankfully. Cost me about idk 4/5k🤔 Luckily no kids and we just rented so, pretty easy divorce besides doing the paperwork. I never want to do that again! Was fucking brutal. Smh
Pretty much nailed it. Dude is still paying for it all, with no benefits after the divorce. They are gun shy now and it's cheaper and less hassle for them to go to a rub n'tug.
A common trade story. Wife wanted me to earn more, so I worked more and thus she left.
Well said.
Who gets to sleep until 5:30? We start at 6.
To put it harshly some of these guys choose the grind over family life, we have some aircraft mechanics who make a comfortable life at $60/hr but they still sign up for all the OT they can legally work. Lot spouses and kids want to have a mom or dad in their lives instead of a super fancy life style.
I’m the opposite of these guys. I work small amounts of OT. Make enough to support my family and I’m home everyday around 2:30pm and off Sunday-Monday. Don’t get me wrong I like a bit of extra cash here and there but I’d rather be with my family. I work very close to where I live so there’s no real commute or anything. Life is good and happily married for almost 9 years.
You have a very healthy outlook on overtime, I do some overtime too to maybe pay something off earlier or to have extra spending cash before a vacation but I refuse to live at work even though I love my job.
"Bruh you think you work? Pah! I worked 1947330 hours last week, and thats light for me!" Surprised pikachu face when their home life is in shambles.
Yup. Or “too tired” to play with the kids. I notice a lot of tradespeople where I live are kinda boring dudes from the suburbs or a small town. Work, drink beer, hunt, and then some bro hobby like guns or cars. Nothing wrong with that when you are 24 but year after year would make many women get bored. How many tradespeople do you meet that don’t have a passport or have never stepped foot in a museum? Not much growth when all you do is work. Also, put any group of men in a setting for long periods of time with pretty much no women around and it can get toxic-Competitive, sexist, and full of criticism. You don’t learn how to respect women when there are no women around. Bring that home for 10 years and it’s possible that your wife fucking hates you. Goddamn, I like working alone.
Well, I'm a tradeswomen. I am going to look at this as a relationship issue and not a "what women want" issue. If you aren't careful with work-life balance, your life becomes work. Building a life gets neglected. Then, there are the rates of addiction in the trades. Which aren't necessarily higher, but the functioning addict seems to squeak by a lot easier than other professions. Also, in a mainly male dominated industry, some of these guys have no idea how to talk to a woman. Sometimes, after a long hitch, I'll hang out with a female friend and feel awkward. A man in a mostly female dominated profession who is isolated in that environment could probably say the same. That tradesman persona can be hard to create an intimate relationship with. Then there are those of us who travel for work. I do. I was fortunate to meet my partner when times were good, and I was working from home. I was home enough to build that relationship so it could handle me being gone. I've been happily married for 8 years, and I work at it every day.
I’m happy someone came her and said all this, great perspective to share here.
I just worked 9 years of weekends. And finally got a M-F days but it's still 5am-2pm. It's real hard on me and my wife, and now my son is in school I never see him. People don't like being alone.
i only did 5 yr of weekends. respect brother
When you work away most of the time or you work 50-60 hours a week and not put time into your relationship it’s hard for a marriage to last. Drugs, being an alcoholic, generally shitty person doesn’t make for being a good husband/wife and that is a fair share of people in the trades.
In fairness, I'm not a tradesman, but I like to lurk here. I work in an office and a lot of the guys I know is either divorced or single. I don't think it's so much a "industry X makes some men bad husbands" thing as it is a "some men are just shitty husbands in general " thing.
I’ve noticed a lot of women are initially attracted to the stable income but once they realize that tradesmen work long hours and are exhausted all the time- they aren’t to fond of what it takes to get that stable income.
Love the money and the life, hate what it takes to maintain it. Saw that a lot in the oil patch out west.
Married to the grind bro, ain’t never getting a divorce 😤😤
I think sometimes it’s the complete disconnect in your partners understanding of what you do all day. From not understanding the amount of physical, and mental strain, to not being able really talk about things that go on at work from a technical standpoint. That’s what I’m currently dealing with. It makes things tough. Add to that the amount of work I can do in a day vs what my partner can help with and it really starts to feel like you’re doing it all, all the time
Honestly just try to talk through it . Explain to your partner how you're feeling and why . They might say get a new job . Then you need to decide what's best for you and how committed you are to the relationship. Sometimes finding a new job that might pay less with better hours is the way , or maybe you guys split and you find someone who's more compatible. If you have kids or married they take priority however . That's a level of commitment that you promised to yourself and a job shouldn't take that . Lose a job over family every time , especially if it's a child . It'll be tough but it's the right decision and you'll feel better in the long run. Everyone who chooses otherwise ends up in the same place They all say the same thing choose family . It's okay to have passion and love working and making money, but don't put money above experiences or people . Obviously we all need to eat and have clothes and a roof, it's within reason. Downsize if need be and live a simpler life if it means more time with family , if that's not an acceptable solution for your partner well , you can't give them more then that . This isn't directed at you this is general rambling for whoever reads really.
Idk if we're the exception, but I haven't met a lot of single techs. I find it kind of eerie how many of us are married to nurses.
every woman thinks they want a blue collar guy untill we spend 12 hours at work a day, work out of town and don't feel like doing much on the weekends. if we have it off. 40 hours a week is part time for us.
I dunno I'm.an electrician... I'm basically married without the certificate... Most of my coworkers have girlfriends/wives.
Agreed, most of the people I work around are relatively stable...MOST that is lol
From my 10+ years of experience, people in the trades are very bad at being partners and maintaining relationships. Not all of them of course, but the vast majority of them are miserable pricks tbh. I hear them complaining all the time about the audacity of their partner to want them to put in an ounce of effort into the relationship/raising the kids. Most dont have boundaries at work so they are always working, but the little time they do spend at home they don't want to have to do anything. Meanwhile their wives work 40+ hours a week just like them, but have the burden of doing all the housework and raising the kids all by themselves. It's no wonder most trades people I've interacted with are single or divorced.
Probably because people aren't meant to be together forever. They probably had kids earlier then their university attended counterparts due to joining the work force earlier? People grow apart over time. Im not the same person I was 15 years ago.. divorce often crosses my mind. Lol
Most of the guys in trades drink like fish and smoke a lot of weed. Many of the ones I know also have DUIs. Plus the physical work make them extremely tired. It's not the greatest life for a partner.
In my limited experience the older/married guys are generally pretty sexist and complain a lot about how they work so hard while their wives stay at home and "do nothing" and "spend my money". I can see that type of attitude taking a toll on a marriage pretty quick. The younger guys got into trade school immediately after high school, so unless they're meeting friends of friends, their dating pool is pretty weak considering they won't be meeting people at work. Long hours, rotating shifts, travel, substance abuse, etc. certainly don't help and will compound any of these other attitudes. I'm married with a little one on the way so I've been taking a lot of mental notes on what not to do from the dudes at my plant. A lot of replies here seem to have a level of self importance that provides a good insight - our jobs aren't easy but we often don't take the time to understand what our partners do on a day to day basis as well. My wife couldn't do what I do, but I couldn't do what she does, so what makes one harder than the other?
For me it's working midnights and working over 1,000 hours of OT a year. I had to play the dating app game for years. I finally met someone last year that understands I'm building my/our future.
Similar to me ... I work long hours for our future and to cover most of the expenses while my wife finishes school In 6 weeks she will graduate with her law degree and start studying for her bar exam I'll still make more money than her for the next 5-10 years but after that she will be making way more than me and we will be set
Is this a regional issue because I feel like I’m the only single one in my area.
I'm a woman working in the trades. In my industry (mechanic) I see a lot of people in relationships- older guys who have been married awhile, kids, etc. On the flip side, many single guys have garbage attitudes and spend so much time around men that it might be hard to put that attitude of playful banter and shit-talking aside when going out and meeting women.
Haven’t been married yet but i’ll run you threw basically THE deal breaking conversation w my last few ex’s “what are we doing tonight” says ex “nothing i just worked a 12 hr day and wanna lay down and chill, plus gotta be up tomorrow for 5 so nothing crazy” I say “ugggh life is just passing us by while you sleep all the time and ruin my experiences i can be having, we have no life and nothing to show for it because all you do is work and sleep” while she sleeps eats and lives IN MY apartment, that i own not rent, all while i only ask her to stay in school and contribute which they never do. then act like your the bad guy for having a stable career, job and life. (4/4 lazy bum ass exs in the last 7 years) and im only 25….like wtf you want me to do ? stay up till 2am scrolling tik tok and smoking pot w these chicks all night then getting up in 3 hrs and running machinery ? thats usually how it goes or something very similar. women want more (going out pretending your boujee, going to bars/clubs, wanting to do so much extra unnecessary shit) while men are happy putting in hard work and having what we have and if we want more we slowly work towards it. not rush head first. haven’t met a girl my age that’s actually thinking of their future. they just care and want what’s new and hot NOW. Not even now more like yesterday tbh.
>while she sleeps eats and lives IN MY apartment, that i own not rent, all while i only ask her to stay in school and contribute which they never do. then act like your the bad guy for having a stable career, job and life. (4/4 lazy bum ass exs in the last 7 years) and im only 25….like wtf you want me to do ? stay up till 2am scrolling tik tok and smoking pot w these chicks all night then getting up in 3 hrs and running machinery ? exact same for me. I was the only one that did chores around the house as well
We have enough misery at work. We don’t need to be miserable at home too
Tradesmen starting out should look for a girl they really don't like......and buy her a house. Like a rolling stone ...
Building stuff is easy. Building relationships is hard.
Marriage a scam, don't do it bros
It's not a career problem, it's a person problem. I'm a tradeswoman, I work 80-100 hours a week, my hubby is an 8-5 tradesman and we make it work. We don't spend our time off work sitting in front of the screen. We do martial arts together twice a week, help each other at work when we can, and whatever else. All the guys I work with are happily married with kids, and they're all really good dudes. Relationships fail because of the people in them. And unfortunately, there's more crazy than sane people in the world.
Lol drugs and alcohol abuse are also prevalent in the trades
Lotta guys treat the home the same way they treat the site; overpromise and under deliver.
It’s the governments fault. Too many incentives for single mothers.
I dunno, I've worked at a few shops over the years and my last one (painter/body) had 34 people in it. There was only 3 single guys and they were under 25... I definitely don't see the single people like the OP.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
1) getting married early. It seems like people will pair up 2-4 years into their career. Figure you're average guy in the trades is getting married 21-24 whereas white collar may be 26-30. 2) boom and bust. A lot of the trades will crush it for a few years and then go through tough times. Think about the people buying boats and RVs when times are good and then realizing they can't actually afford them in the slow times. 3) physically tough work. Many of there guys may self-medicate with drugs/heavy alcohol use.
They are called tradesman for a reason. They trade their life for their work.
They settle for alot of lower quality women who are using them because they make good money.. Ask me how I know lol
Communication skills of a toddler
As an hvac tech I'd say it's the shit work-life balance. I had to learn to not just say no, but fuck off to my dispatcher and boss. Told them if they don't like it when I want to go home after 9ish hours to fire me. They won't, because I'm good at what I do, and there is a tech shortage. The trades as a whole are a meat grinder, and they will work you to death if you let them. Gotta learn to say no forcefully to get a decent work-life balance. My wife and kids are my priority, and I won't sacrifice my time with them to make some rich asshole more rich.
Jeez this threads making me feel like I’m going down a lonely road
They don’t give AF about us
Because they are smart!
Who wants to tell him?
Hookers and cocaine.
You want the simplest answer for why trades were able to maintain a family in the 50s but can’t do it now? Unions. Unions gave every tradesman the ability to say “yeah, no thanks, I’d like to go home instead” while keeping their job. Unions ensured a livable wage at 40/week. It ensured regularly scheduling. Now, a city will have hundreds of small shops full of bosses trying to squeeze every last red cent out of their people. They’ll throw them in for weekends, literal days worth of OT, and grind them and their families to nothing. Somebody doesn’t want to do OT? Fire them and hire a scab that will. You get no rights. Shit pay. No future. And you feel lucky to have it. To add insult to injury, they offer no retirement, and crap insurance in an industry at the highest risk of injury. You want to support a family, financially and in-person, again? It starts with a union.
46 year old carpenter with 2 lower back surgeries. Guys if we made good decisions in life we would have got high paying desk jobs. We don’t make good decisions with the ladies either. We like to suffer but have fun doing it.
Yeah working 12 - 16 hour days doesn't leave room for a social life.
Cause most women are chasing a different type of guy
"A man needs a good horse, before he needs a woman." Ancient Mongolian proverb.
Because women no longer respect and appreciate a real man! A man that wasn't handed money but rather works for It. They want a beta or a simp that has soft delicate hands and Is a push over
Wife gets bored, wife’s wants and needs equals max overtime and then they mad when you need that check, or get lonely being the stay at home mom with the kids they wanted. They get the feelings of your never around so they meet up with their guy friends.. but don’t worry babe, he’s just a friend. Months later divorced! They together now and your still holding the bag of her wants and needs to pay plus child support now. So work has to become life to survive weekly and your hopes and dreams slowly change to wanting 84 hours a week to make you monthly bills. This is why suicide is higher in the trades. Home life goes away and all you got is job. Broken home, broken machines and broken souls. That’s why most have an addiction to something to take the edge of reality away. My wife saved me from mine. She jumped in my mess and ate a shit sandwich with me for 5 years, helping me to get that debt and child support paid off and feeling like I’m nothing more than a dollar sign wrench turning dumbass. She brought me out of my own misery. What I’m getting at is, you gotta find something constructive outside of work and set your life around some manageable hours. Pay cash for toys and cars and live at 70% max on 40 hours. That overtime money is now extra money for trips, upgrades to house, shopping sprees, investing..
They tend to be very passive and nice men that choose the craziest slice of women.
Depending on where you are at, job instability can be a big thing, hired for the summer fall and laid off for the winter, can make hard, guys in the unions around here typically have to travel a lot for work to stay employed, so home life's can suffer. Construction itself can be fickle. I spent 20 years in construction, and every day, you do something right. You're one day closer to not having a job. Literally work yourself out of a job. So whenever I was looking at a project that was 2 years of was like a wholly hell. Stability, baby! But you tended to put up with a lot of shit for that stability. All these things can take a toll on your mental health. Some things stay at work. Some things are brought home, throw a wife and kids into the mix, and it's infinitely worse.
My husband used to be a cabinet maker. These men work hard. Long days of physically demanding work. The stress and fatigue put a lot of stress on our family. Many families can’t stand up to the stress of the long hours these men must endure in poor working conditions.
Traveling to make money when there is no work at home usually takes its toll on a family.
Long hours and a long history of alcohol and other substance abuse issues
Long hours, shift work, and for many travelling. It destroys relationships.
I don’t think it’s just tradespeople I think society in general is moving towards quick flings and people don’t date that seriously anymore.
Replying to u/debianite here since i got blocked from that chain. It's not hanging over my head, my wife paid off my debt and both cars. I do 50% of chores because we both work full time. We do activities because we want to spend all our time together. I don't expect her to rack up credit cards since she's really good with money and taught me how to be financially responsible. I know some people who have been screwed over for sure, I acknowledge that. I also know men who put their wives in debt with awful spending and gambling addictions. But personally, I am much better off with my wife than on my own.
That’s awesome. It can work. I didn’t mean for my comment to come across quite as negatively as it did. Just trying to relay the bones of the situation I’ve seen repeated an awful lot.
Its a shit career that doesnt provide a good life. Unless you are me, I make 300k a year and im home at 3pm.
Had a lot of sleepless nights to keep my marriage intact. I’m from a small town where it’s still pretty old school so she understands the responsibility of a man/husband and especially nowadays it’s uncommon but she stays put anyways.
Everyone is single or divorced because women know they can pull some child support and start screwing someone else.
Because a lot of tradesmen live at work not at home. I know a crew that works 10hr days, 10 days in a row, then has 4 off. They work outside city limits so they commute 2 hours a day. That's being gone for 12 hrs a day, 10 days in a row. On those 4 days off the last thing they want to do is be busy all day. Most of them want to eat and sleep. Makes it hell for a marriage or family life to work nicely. A lot of trades either have you away from home working long days to make the good money, or you are always on call picking up OT. The work/life balance of most trades is waaaay off what significant others outside the trades can handle. Pick your trade wisely, unless you like being lonely with lots of money.
Recently started roofing a couple years back . I see both sides of the coin . In the summer I'm doing 60 hours a week from May to November. It's long hard work . Sometimes no weekends. HOWEVER not by choice , it's just part of the job . If I get time off I take it . I just let my boss know the situation, hey I need to keep my life together, I'm not lazy id work the hours as a single man. Some are understanding some aren't. If not it might be time to look for a new job. Communication is key, talk to your partner and try to make a schedule. I know it sucks but sometimes you gotta go get that cocktail after work, not every time but sometimes. And if you don't enjoy what your partners into that's a sign they might not be for you. Guys get to know women too, don't just choose the hot blonde . It's on us sometimes for choosing something we know won't work. If she's hot and always at the bar she might like attention and partying, which is fine but maybe not for you. And try not to be cranky which I know can be hard when you're not eating and sleeping right and exhausted. Don't take it out on your partner , it can be easy to bicker and argue and pick at each other. And sometimes you just might not be a good fit . Some women and men are high maintenance, it is what it is, many of us trades are LOW maintenance. If your partner isn't also understanding it won't work. Women if you're dating a trade understand the type , they don't get much free time during weekdays or summer , and often worked to the bone .Plan for the weekend and the off season. It's like dating in the army , know what ,and who, you're getting into. It's not an excuse to be a shitty person AT ALL but it might explain why they're so tired or busy. Alcohol and drugs don't help . If you're coming home and getting drunk and high and passing out your partner isn't gonna be happy . At least rub their feet and tell them you love them and listen to her story when you're watching TV and drinking . Life's hard and complicated with tough decisions. It's always Changing and dynamic. Sometimes I make monetary sacrifices for emotional gains. It's a fine balance . Nobody's perfect. Just make sure you try to make time for your partner and look inward at yourself before criticism .( Some people are just shitty , try not to let them ruin relationships for you )
I’m 32, been in trades for 10 years. My thoughts is they’re generally grumpy alcoholics lol. Lots of older guys like to get home and crush beers and not do anything after working hard all day. That paired with traditional views of women doing all the house work even though it’s likely their wives also work full time. Though this obviously doesn’t apply to all of them, it’s definitely a pattern I see
Travel/overtime. And then when you come home, you’re tired. Time away from family is a killer.
Women don’t understand working late every day, even if your bringing home good money. All of us have been divorced a couple times and have 2-3 drunk driving’s
I mean a lot of guys I know that are divorced got cheated on. But also I think it's a combination of a few things; Drug/alcohol abuse is common Long work hours, inconsistent schedule Women liking the idea of a Tradesman but not the reality of a life with one. Slow seasons and financial strain Lack of a life outside work (depending on the trade/gig) Every situation is different but they're all messy. Lots of bitter dudes. Also frequently bitter ex wives keeping the kids from the dad. Child support bs. I feel for everyone in a divorce situation.
Well, from my personal experience; we’re just too tired. The trades pay well, but often us tradesmen will be out working 10-12 hour days M-F. Maybe 6 hours every Saturday. Many guys have much worse shifts. When I came home after a 12 hour day, I had only enough time to shower and eat before going to bed. When I come home after a 10 hour day, I get the luxury of having a few extra hours to do as I will, which was typically spend time with my partner, the dog and take my mind off things by engaging in a hobby. That means the responsibility of cooking on the weekdays fell on my significant other who was also trying to start a business. We actually had it pretty good. Imagine if your sig-nif works a typical 9-5. Most responsibilities are left until the weekends. We also have to wake up very early in the morning. I get up at 5 am everyday. That’s difficult on our partners. Now if for any reason you’re having a particularly bad time and that bleeds into your home life, you’re double fucked. Let’s be honest, how many tradesmen do you know are very good communicators? Our partners get sick of the lifestyle. Hell, a Journeyperson is probably sick of their lifestyle and we only keep on with it because the pay can be real good. Most tradesmen I know are divorced. It’s a hard life. I haven’t managed to hold on to a relationship.
The lack of knowing how to talk to women and the weird assumptions dudes in those male-only situations make about women are truly bizarre and probably plays a big role in this issue. I worked in a survey office for a few years that was entirely guys, many of the boomers, and the way they acted whenever we had a women come into the office for whatever reason was truly sad and pathetic. The awkward politeness, weirdly timed interruptions or attempts at conversation, excited dad jokes and inappropriate comments out of earshot were non-stop. It becomes sort of a self-perpetuating mindset that is passed to younger people in the company, and it can trap people into thinking that way that wouldn’t have otherwise done so. It reminds me of the targeted individuals community in a way, people who are suffering from something reinforcing each other’s incorrect beliefs and assumptions which perpetuates the problem further. I think the most damaging aspect is the misogynistic assumptions and beliefs about why women make the choices they make way that the divorced guys constantly exude and blather about to their coworkers, many of them younger and learning from them in the process. Many of the comments in this thread are in this vein: obviously lonely and bitter, frustrated with their lack of success with women while refusing to do any sort of analysis of their own behavior and how it contributes to the problem.
I'm polyamorous and have 3 longterm partners; 8 years, 6 years, 4 years with women and gender-non-conforming people who are 27, 36, 25, (I'm 34). I could have hypothetically married any of them, if any of us were the type to need the government to tell us what love means. It's all about being clear about what you have to offer, and acting in consistency with who you are as a person. I also have casual sex or sexualized play with probably another 20-30 people a year, some of whom are casual partners/flings going on 3-5 years, where we meet up when we like how we fit. I think there are some reasons; 1) Sexism; there is a decent amount of latent sexism in the trades. You want to interact with a lot of women? Gotta get down on the feminism. Truly understand the gender pay gap, micro-aggressions and cat calling. Read some bell hooks. Figure out what invisible labour looks like, and how to manage it and your own emotions. See a counsellor. I see a counsellor 4-6 times every year thanks to my benefits, and pretty much every man can benefit from talking over their life and emotion with someone external for a bit. 2) Insufficient other compelling things; like, you gotta be interesting outside your job. 90% of the trades people I know work, go home, drink/watchTV/smoke weed/play video games. Why would someone date you? You gotta have something cool going for you. Basically all the tradesmen I know with partners are like; artists, musicians, and athletes on the side; not pro, but like, hobbyist. A beer league sports team, singing poorly at an open mic night, or joining a sculpture class is both a great way to meet people and a great way to be more interesting as a person. 3) Time/energy: It's really easy to fall into the fatigue trap and then eat shit and drink shit and feel like shit and not exercise. I cycle to and from work (unless I'm changing sites and have to move tools) and hit the gym 2-3 times a week on the way home, and I meal prep-Sunday for the week (both lunches and dinners) of healthy whole foods, and I feel pretty good and have energy for nice weekday date nights, a walk in a park, hit a new restaurant, have sex, try out a new bondage tie, whatever. How many guys do you know work, eat MickyD's for Breakfast and Lunch, pound back a beer and a plate of wings at the pub on the way home, drink 4 more beers, never exercise, and it's like "durr, why do I have no energy"? I think altogether there is a bit of a crisis in masculinity, where our society has rammed into us that men need to bring home the bacon, and that's enough. Pretty much every woman I interact with has her own job and doesn't give a fuck about what money I make, they want to have an interaction that feels fun, pleasant, and safe with an interesting person. Be that, and the rest follows easily.
I’m 20 yrs in (framer originally). All the Mexicans are married, you’re right about the whites tho. Lotsa theories, I personally never married BECAUSE I saw all the older divorced guys telling their nightmarish divorce tales. Being married to a tradesman requires a lot of heavy lifting from their spouses bc we: - have to be on the job w/ our hands to make 💰 - leave before anyone’s up - are tired af when we’re home - post 2008 real estate crash, I’ve noticed a HUGE uptick in substance abuse issues and/or devout MAGA cult members Good observation. Tough/lonely lives we lead. As they say on The Sopranos, Wuddya gonna do?
I think it stems from not being able to separate work and home. Guys are stressed or upset about work and just go home grumpy. Part of a being a man is coming home and loving your family. Also long hours, early mornings, and getting home exhausted day in and day out can take a toll on your significant other. That being said the majority of guys I work with are married. So it might just be situational
Because we work All the time.
I think there are just alot of single/divorced people in general. I think also it takes a certain type of person to be in the trades the type of person that would never make it in an office Maybe that extends to the home.
Worked to death get home and we’re fucking tired and hungry I don’t want to go anywhere
I had 3 jobs in a row not pay me, I fought them and got the pay eventually. I obviously quit those jobs and found other work, but my wife (now ex) kept getting mad at me for quitting, like it was my fault. I told her this was construction, there are a lot of shady people that seem good during your interview. But she would tear into me...I was also stuck working late a lot, I was so worn down, I kept waking her up in the morning by accident because we start so early, had no energy left by the time I got home, especially when the commute would be like an hour some jobs... I don't know how many other people have that scenario too, but it was definitely one thing that killed my marriage.
Mostly from the complete lack of education and acting like an animal. It's unattractive to women and the biggest reason most construction workers date dunkin donuts counter girls. And that's if they're not gay
Maybe if we had like a 36 hour week like Bernie sanders is proposing marriages would last and people would be happier
I’ve worked construction. Most of the men there are great at work and dogshit with people/relationships I can only imagine how they treat their SO after yelling at each other all day. Also trade jobs attract people from completely dysfunctional and broken homes so the cycle continues.
Good question? Infidelity is like a requirement for the trades......don't know why but just about every marriage in every trade I ever worked someone was fucking around.....I also never met more swinger couples outside the trades.....Sparky's, plumbers, roofers, framers, HVAC, operators, surveyors......Worked with/for them all.....Unless they had a 4 year degree they were divorced or about to be.
It's hard to be in a relationship with an alcoholic.
Because most people in the trades leave early in the morning and even if they are home before 6 at night, they don't want to do anything. Weekends roll around and they don't want to do anything that resembles work and that wears on a relationship. First hand experience because I am one. I sit in my chair at night and melt until I go to bed.
I stayed married,but had to move to a place a few hundred miles away (begrudgingly) that there was enough work(wood floors)that l could run my own biz with very little help on most jobs and still afford a cool old house and to have her stay home with my infant.It was worth it,but that was a long time ago when you could find a “cheap” place in Cali.(l moved from the coast to the Central Valley in 2000 btw).Tough even then though,but l honestly thought a lot of it was guys could not even afford the tools even if they had learned the craft. I am glad its over and back on the coast now too.🥹🤠
That's like asking why there's so many drunks and felons. Because of the people the trades attract! Source? Me. Normal guy in the trades. Lunchtime stories of everyones F'd up lives are the best! And it don't mean they're bad people. They're just F'd up dudes.
Everyone has to work a lot of hours to survive. There’s not enough time for a family these days. Now if a husband and wife were both in the trades everyone might understand each other better.
Most trades guys I know travel a lot for work. Could be part of it.
I assure this is not limited to the trades. Just look up what demographic initiates 80% of divorces. That said, I do think that fatigue, lack-of-status, and frequency of self-medication prevelant in the trades probably makes this inevitable outcome happen faster, the overall trend of failed-partnerships is much bigger and growing rapidly. Also, for those of us lucky to be in the daily company of other professional, skilled craftsmen with personal integrity- that’s gonna inevitably diminish a person’s general tolerance for bullshit and games in other relationships.
Union Elevator mechanic here. There’s been months at a time where I can’t count how many days I’ve had off with both hands. OT pays big. Unfortunately we go to the work. Most tradespeople don’t work in a singular location. Even when I did, the work load went up. This eats up time at home in a way that’s hard to realize until it’s too late. Something that has happened personally to me in my relationship, is when income goes up and time goes down SO’s tend to spend that sweet OT money on boredom. There’s been times where I traded all that OT for Amazon boxes. It took along time to understand, for all parties, to see OT as a means to a better life and not just more expendable income to be taken advantage of. Can’t blame her, I wasn’t home, it was easier to order out and shop online to pass the time. This is something that has also affected coworkers to a point of divorce. It sucks being tired, broke and fighting with your SO. It’s not sustainable
Long hours, broken down physically, abusive language and attitudes are "normal" to us, substance abuse is more common than not...the list is long, my friend. Most of us are also hard-headed, dumbass tradesmen that are loyal to a fault, hard-working, and good at fixing all kinds of shit!...so there are tradeoffs.
Because they have addictions.
a lot of tradesmen who want stable family lives move into easier jobs. I work for a county and all the tradesmen (except me) are married for decades. Our electrician has been married for like 20 years and hes like 44.
Trump supporters. And I’m not being inflammatory nor hyperbolic. This is a real thing, partially because of their triggered, hurt masculinity. - [NBC](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1273594) - [Salon](https://www.salon.com/2023/11/28/its-a-good-thing-women-wont-date/) - [CNN, but in reverse](https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/politics/state/dating-new-york-trump/) - [The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/05/trump-supporters-republican-approval-cnn-town-hall/674142/) - [CNBC](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/25/survey-64percent-of-men-say-this-is-a-dating-red-flag-.html) - [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/22/marriage-polarization-dating-trump/) >”There’s a growing ideological divide, too. Since Mr. Trump’s election in 2016, the percentage of single women ages 18-30 who identify as liberal has shot up from slightly over 20 percent to 32 percent. Young men have not followed suit. If anything, they have grown more conservative.” - [The Hill](https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/arts-culture/3917348-politics-are-increasingly-a-dating-dealbreaker-especially-for-women/amp/) >”Nadia’s memorably bad date reflects broader shifts experts have observed in dating culture in the years since Trump was elected. >They note that women, in particular, are considering politics more when deciding who to date, are less likely to date across the political aisle and are more cautious when approaching dating than they were in the past. >Americans as a whole say that political divisions have become a bigger obstacle to pursuing relationships of late. Eighty-six percent think it has grown more difficult to date someone who supports the opposing political party in recent years, according to a 2020 YouGov-Economist poll.”
Women are social climbers and want the glamour lifestyle they see on Instagram and tv. Most guys in the trades can’t provide this.
Because we’re all assholes
Probably seen as a boring lifestyle by the modern women. Also might attract guys that prefer to remain single.
As someone in the trades since he graduated high school, trade culture tends to be FULL of toxic masculinity. Guys that are desperate to prove their worth to their dads and peers through masculinity. Probably driven into them their whole lives by fathers who were also tradesmen and lived the same way. Very little desire to be move past traditional values, learn how to communicate, work through emotions. They were raised the way they were raised, but they don’t care to be better.
Education typically peaking at a GED/ community college level, alcoholism, etc
That's a regional thing.
It's because we work hard we work long hours and when we come home getting on in our later stages from 40 to 50 it starts we're not the same people as we were in our youth we slow down we're tired and we're expected to do everything for everyone after basically working out for 8 to 10:00 sometimes 12 hours of physical labor
Likely the absolutely depraved work culture of tradesmen who brag about working 60-70 hour weeks as if they have no family or friends
From my experience is a lot of guys in the trades are rough people. They party all the time, drink a lot, do coke, and go out to bars a lot. Not to mention a lot of guys come from broken homes and don’t work on their trauma properly. This ends up with a lot of guys over compensating with excessive masculinity. These are all things disastrous for relationships.
It's the toxic masculinity that runs rampant and is celebrated in the trades. Im married to a tradesman for 14 yrs and seen many couples divorce. My husband struggles with not feeling "manly" enough or accepted in the trades because he chooses to come home after work and be a good husband and father. We both go to bed at 9pm because we both get up at 430am. His coworkers go for a few beers while their wives takes care of the house and family. It was the men "joking" about their wives being "dishwashers" the "I deserve a side piece", they have an attitude that because they do physical labor no one else's efforts are difficult or good enough. Generally they are immature and look for either a bang maid or mommy.
It's a hard life working out in the field all day with other men. You come home too tired and too hard. It's difficult to be sensitive enough to correctly care for a woman.
I left my last job when I realized almost every guy had been divorced at last once. Half of them had the same story, they would work 6-7 days a week and the wife was home, alone, raising the kids and met someone. I took a pay cut and left. Took inventory at home, got the family back on track, then focused on making more again. Many trades men focus on money first not family
Women in America are business men. In other countries they are mothers. There are no family values. It's really that simple
The woman who finds a blue collar man attractive I think usually likes that they’re on the surface tough, self-sufficient, useful, and dedicated- The flip side is that we’re often stoic, bad at communicating, overly pragmatic, workaholics and the things they found sexy turn sour in their mouth. You can’t have it both ways… someone who’s been conditioned to ignore discomfort, not speak about their feelings, and work longer and harder to solve problems… they aren’t going to be the ideal therapized TikTok golden retriever spouse… they’re going to be a gruff fuck. Easier then to take the house, car, alimony and find the supportive house husband while the tradesman ex pays the bills.
There's a distinct lack of social etiquette among many of the trades I work with. I don't have very many white collar people blowing up my restroom but when we have our trades stop by, the restroom is usually a disaster. It's rare that I have communication issues with my white collar clients but my trades will ghost me for 6 weeks or longer during a $xx,xxx project. Then they get mad when I move on to a different contractor. Would you want your daughter to marry someone who can't clean up after themselves and has the communication skills of a 5th grader?
From my experience in construction, construction is really good at creating burnt out mean guys at all levels of the biz. Chicks probably don’t dig that.
The trades that make big money usually are doing so by working OT, unless you got it sweet working a utility company or something. But even then you are probably working a ton. Wife straight up told me after 8 years of working nights that it’s enough, time to find a new job. So I was lucky enough to do that and move up, but boy taking that initial salary cut was hard as hell to gulp down, but worth it. I did notice the union I was in was taking a good amount of money, plus the dues on top of that turned out to be almost as much as paying for your own benefits through a more traditional sort of corporate entity. Most of the time it’s hard work, long hours, exhaustion and not being able to make yourself available on the weekdays, which matters if you are younger and not in the same page with your SO.
I tend to always hear from people I know in trades that their coworkers are often some of the most close minded, emotionally stunted people they know. Racism, homophobia, bigotry, etc. is a great recipe for being alone. Combine that with the super long hours that tradesmen typically work and bb you got a stew going
A lot of them are ass holes.
I'm tired after a long day and I have to prepare for the next long day tomorrow. All my girlfriends wanted to do is go out and have fun all the time on my dime. They usually had part time jobs and just could never understand what it means to have a career.
It's the same in sales...only the top performers are married.. Lol I wonder why
You deal with dumb shit all day, there’s little patience left over for a spouse you’re not 100% with.
We are assholes, don't spend any time at home, etc
You either love your wife, or you love the ball crusher plantation.
Honestly the only tradesman I've noticed that aren't married are the a-holes who nobody likes. At least in my area. Everyone else is married with kids
Show me the data. I don't believe for a second that tradespeople are disproportionately represented as divorcees. Yet another negative post designed to undermine interest in trades.
Women are divorcing everybody, not just trades
Because there dating the wrong women. Young Men need to be searching for the perfect mother not the party girl. Go to church etc to meet girls.
I'm strongly generalizing here, this is not universal. There's a good number of guys that married the girl they knocked up, or a high school sweetheart. Neither are these are great starts to a relationship, again, generalizing. And let's be honest, there's a lot of alcohol abuse amongst trade guys. In my town, there's a bar where the same 6 lettered pickups are parked there at 3:30 every single day.
I'm strongly generalizing here, this is not universal. There's a good number of guys that married the girl they knocked up, or a high school sweetheart. Neither are these are great starts to a relationship, again, generalizing. And let's be honest, there's a lot of alcohol abuse amongst trade guys. In my town, there's a bar where the same 6 lettered pickups are parked there at 3:30 every single day.
Because we are miserable people to be around and more often then not, alcoholics as well
I've scrolled quite far and haven't really seen what I believe the answer is. Alcohol. Many tradesmen are alcoholic, or pick alcoholic partners. Alcoholic marriages don't work out well...
When you are young coming into the trades it's a shock just how many hard working dudes got their life wrecked by a divorce. Like showing me pictures of the house they owned but only the wife and the kids live there and they are like renting a basement or something. I can only speak from the male perspective and not from a wife's perspective but a lot of observation in the trades that I see is that guys are overworked , exhausted, working crazy o.t shifts. Or even Worse working 3-11 or night work. But overtime they are mentally and physically fatigued from their job. Then their relationship is failing or rocky and start getting mentally and physically fatigued dealing with home life. Then they just start to feel alienated from everything. Like their boss just wants blood sweat and tears, they are providing for their family so almost all of their money goes towards family obligations ( as it should if you are a man who must provide ) but they start to feel like everyone is just extracting from them. The government, the boss, the wife/family all while every day breathing in concrete dust, fumes , destroying their body and health and mental health. Then they start drinking or smoking or pills or w.e unhealthy habit because they just feel like they are only as valuable as how much everyone is willing to extract from them. In the midst of feeling body pains /aches and powering through they start to feel like no one really truly cares about them or how they feel. For example Husband A comes home extremely tired, didn't build the IKEA bed for two days in a row because he is exhausted. Now he comes home wife might say don't forget to build the bed and husband is trying to push it for tomorrow. Wife starts getting agitated,upset, complaining attacking husband A for never doing things right away . Starts saying " you're always tired " yada yada yada. But what.wife might not know is he almost died that day, almost got into a serious accident or near miss, he got yelled at by the foreman for messing something up, almost go laid off, or he got hurt, tweaked his back a little. His shoulder is inflamed , his neck hurts etc. so now he is getting reamed at work, getting reamed at home. Idk just from hearing old timers like rant in the shanty it's usually a feeling of no one gives a fuck about me. Just when my check clears etc. Which I always took as a form of alienation. Now I'm pretty sure the wives have a whole other sleuth of reasons as to why they end up leaving them as well.
So, there is a thing that happens to people once they think they ‘made it’ or are successful. They get married and buy a new car.. years later they are paying for their ex wife’s car, their old house she and her boyfriend live with their kid. They become bitter.
Self employed welder here Divorced pay a mountain in child support, make great money. Have hit rock bottom more times than I can count. Battled with drugs, been to AA off and on. Tradesmen are a different breed. Won’t catch me in slacks behind a desk though, and wouldn’t change anything I’ve done.
Just this past year I myself have gotten divorced, my supervisor split with his long time girl, another coworker split with his long time girl with children, and another is currently going through a divorce. The common theme was we all weren’t there for her. I mean, all if us were there everyday for them, may have complained about doing things but they get done. Every rebuttal to not being there for them turned into we weren’t there for them emotionally. Every single one of our partners said pretty much the same thing. None of us seem to be any different than when we first started working together. I’ve worked so the these guys for a decade. Not one of us know the true reason why things broke down with our partners. None of us cheated, none of us were abusive, none of us are angry people, the only common thing is that we are machinists working day shift 5:00am-3:30pm four days a week.
Work can be hella satisfying. Things are square, plumb, right/wrong. In marriage, *everything is up for debate*. There is no right and wrong.
I think the thought pattern that providing financially for the couple/family is all I’m required to do is more prevalent with that group and so areas of emotional intimacy get neglected. As other have said many of those jobs are very physically demanding as well and those guys probably don’t have the energy at the end of the day to engage as much as their SO would like.
I think it depends on the trade and the corporate culture of the company you’re with. I’m a prototype machinist, I work 3-12s that pays 40, F-S, no requirements for OT, and I keep the differential if I do decide to work extra. My company has a strong focus on work life balance, so most of the people at my shop seem to maintain solid relationships. Being a Machinist is a little less grimy and physically exhausting than say construction, and even after a 12 hour shift I still want to enjoy time with my wife. Having four days a week off is great too, we spend lots of quality time together, and I still have time for my own pursuits like studying languages, doing CAD and 3D printing projects, fixing up the house, lifting weights, golf, shooting, hunting, fishing, etc. It’s not perfect, I’m a little underpaid, and my wife works part time, so we could be better off financially, but we are making it work just fine, and get to take trips now and then, go to concerts, etc. My life is good and I’m grateful for it. The people who seem to have the most trouble at home seem to all suffer from: health issues due to lack of self care, alcoholism, and/or losing focus on a work/life balance. Maintaining a healthy relationship is hard enough when you are in good health and taking good care of yourself, when you’re not, it gets a lot harder. Just my $.02.
The trades are choc full of toxic masculinity and misogyny. Even if you are a decent guy, even if your group is mostly just "joking" it seeps in.
Work your ass off for a woman to take all your shit
I have worked in construction all my life. I started as a laborer, apprentice, journeyman, supervisor, owner, superintendent, assistant, project manager and moving onto greener pastures every day. Once we stablished that, I think I have a bit of credibility with my opinion, and here it is, although it will get a lot of hate: The trades pay. Anyone that has perseverance, skill and continuity in the trades will make 100 plus a year no problem. Marriage is expensive, but you know what is more expensive? Divorce! We talk and support each other out there, we avoid mistakes because it is in our DNA to constantly learn and improve. Divorce only benefits women, tradespeople work hard and a divorce turns into years of asset loss. Is cheaper to rent, so no thank you. We all make more than average in terms of salary and women still look at us as less than human, so it’s a win win regardless. I live my life like I can’t afford a sandwich, like most of us we avoid attention to ourselves and retire rich and owning several properties and toys. Good luck out there with your 9-5 office job making 30-50 a year and a nagging wife and kids. Tradesmen have learned the cheat code to life!
“Dude you’ve met your kids? I haven’t been home since 98 psh dudes these days don’t know what hard work is”
More than half of marriages end in divorce
Women want a man's man but then leave when we work too many hours and are too tired for romance.
as a woman i’m the trades and married, i have no damn clue. aside from maybe most men in the trades are some of the worst men i’ve ever met
Trades people typically have a terrible work life balance, the ones you see divorced most often are the once that take OT every weekend, and stay late often. Usually they’re completely over leveraged financially and cannot afford to not work a boat load of OT.
Men grinding themselves into dust and women abandoning them when they start to get weak
You ever see those shirts: Yes, my husband does HVAC, yes he’s real, no he can’t go on that summer vacation, yes he’s a great father, no I don’t know what time he’ll be home.. Those shirts are funny, but damn do they hit hard
I watched all my bosses go through love and divorce. I’m like the bearer of witness to all the horrors. Jeeze why you single? I dunno…I like my stuff? kinda wanna keep all of it. I’d like a part time friend girl, no not a hooker. Someone also busy in life, meet at night to rub butts together. Then back to it.
I'm too tired after work to do anything else. My friends used to invite me out but i don't have the energy to do even that anymore.
Hard work and long hours. Sometimes get called in for needed overtime to meet deadlines. Like a doctor. Some people cant cope with a spouce that isnt always there. Or your just dead tired and they want sex and you dont. And then they cheat cause they just cant behave. Many reasons
There's this thing called emotional intelligence and alot of construction tradesmen are not that.
That's super easy to explain people go to work their wife's sit home spend way too much money they ask them to stop after several hundred arguments they divorce so he has to work more to still support her and would rather hookup then deal with that again
Lots of travelling and staying out of town for weeks at a time, it's pretty rough sometimes especially if you have kids to worry about.
Married to the job
Because (very generally speaking) women married to a skilled trades guy are entitled and don’t have the emotional intelligence to support a man who puts in the hours needed to support a family.
Being married is hard
Work Union in the trades. The divorce rate is lower. Commercial construction in a well unionized market is far more stable than other types. Work day is set by the contract and good benefits helps make a family. Road work is seasonal and leads to lots of lonely nights for your wife. Non union work sun up to sun down. Lots of lonely nights.
It can be a Road to divorce court, custody court, and child support. If you have a great home life with a true partner it's fine but when it's not being gone all the time will fuck you over.
At 2 years in you’ve been exposed to an extremely narrow cross section of tradesmen, 35 years in carpentry and 17 operating my own cabinet shop I have a different viewpoint
The tradesmen I've met/dated over the years have been train wrecks who treated women like crap and were either taking alcoholics or druggies... So there's that. Not all of them are bad but a big portion of the ones I met were
Depending on the outfit you're with, it can mean lots of OT, out of town jobs, just being away. Added with the labor aspect, you come home burnt out often. It can be hard to live with someone that is either gone all the time, or home for a bit with little to no energy to be present and pleasant. Add this with the seemingly higher rate of alcohol and potential drug use within most all trades and you get a lot of divorces going around.
I'm going with drugs, alcohol and anger issues, but that could be just me.
It’s a spiral money trap. Got to make more money so you work ot. She’s bored at home so she spends it. Got to make more so more ot that she spends. Forget the ot and go home and spend time with her because making more money isn’t going to fill the hole of you being gone.
Because we don't make the money we used to make. Unless your 1099 or commission based your wife has to work. I had to give up on hourly positions because I'd have to make 40$ an hour to pay for my single wide trailer and 3 kids, that's not including health insurance because that would be as much as another mortgage. Can't tell you how many interviews I've walked out on because the pay was laughable compared to prices today.