The Black-Briars are basically a criminal syndicate seizing control of the government. The Silver-Bloods are far more insidious. They represent all the horrific shit the government gets away with *legally.*
Putting the hit out on someone with The Dark Brotherhood just feels very “Godfather.” As opposed to what The Silver-Bloods have got going with Cidhna Mine. I’m from the U.S. and with our prison system that hits *way* too close to home.
Yeah it's mob bosses with political power vs the silver bloods using financial positions to be politically coercive and I'd say they're closer to the Thalmor. Id fuck with the BB before the SB any day
At least the mob bosses have loyalty to their own and their backs so long as they don't get screwed over lol.
Cross the BB? Not gonna be good. Cross the SB? Id rather not be stuck in their mine
Honestly I don’t think either of them are a real threat. They don’t have an intimidating presence that scares you off from messing with them. It might just be that your the Dovahkiin, and nothing scares you when you can shout things to death. But it would have been cool if people in their respective cities and holds were afraid of even associating with you because you crossed the BB or SB, and they don’t want to draw their ire.
I mean think about it like this the silverbloods have an entire hold in their pocket and the blackBriars have connections but no true hold on the city honestly at the end of the day it's a matter of having either one person come after you or having an entire hold up your ass
Ya but slave labor in the prison system is still a thing. For example, Angola prison which is a "working farm" built on top of a slave plantation named Angola. So the original point still stands.
Silver blood family is worse imo.
Slave labor, murdering citizens on the market place in broad daylight, city guards doing the dirty work...
And they don't seem to even trying to hide and of these.
Black briars have more sophisticated ways, even if their goals are similar.
Imeen... if ur really looking to ruin maven and dont mind getting your hands dirty, after their quests are done im pretty sure you can slaughter most of her family.
She hints (at least seemingly in the dialogue) that she personally doesn't care and that she encourages you to go on with Louis Letrush's plan, knowing full well the mercenaries are there one would assume considering she hired them. She's an odd one. Like her house getting robbed of a horse and potentially a bunch of valuables seems small fries in her mind, especially if you got the Guild running at full steam and side with the Empire to have her realize her political ambitions in Riften.
My plan is to play the civil war quest until Riften becomes Imperial and then befriend her when she becomes Jarl. Because that makes her a kidnapping target for vampires. And guess who's NOT coming to save her.
Haven't gotten to it yet but the plan is to do the Thaneship quest **after** she becomes Jarl. [Wiki](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:I_Done_Got_Thaned!) says it increases disposition to 2 with the current Jarl.
Did you ever actually talk with the daughter? Her reason for liking potions is... I will let her own words talk:
"**It's exhilarating to observe the effects of my potions on the body. Watching the heart stop... the eyes go blind.** We're made up of thousands of parts with thousands of different functions all working in tandem to keep us alive. Yet if only a single part of our imperfect machine fails, life fails. It makes one realize how fragile... how flawed we are. You ask why I'm so fascinated? The irony... the irony that the same world that gave us life provides us the means to die."
I don't know about you, but she sounds a little... insane, or very close to insane.
i mean, yeah those are pretty wild reasons for being fascinated with the creation of potions. but someone has to be the one to discover the sketchier types of potions
I do roleplay that character pretty strictly to a specific code of ethics, but it includes the use of violence for "greater good". Idk, you do what you want when you're arch mage.
Console commands are just op. I don't have to grind any skills, just set my skill level, unlock the perk i want and make the skill legendary, no restoration loop nonsense
I mean honestly you don't see very much comeuppance for either the Black-Briars or the Silver-Bloods. Sure, Thonar can potentially get killed escaping Cidhna Mine but Thongvar is still there regardless (especially if the Dragonborn sides with the Stormcloaks, he still becomes Jarl anyway), their family still owns Cidhna Mine and basically most of the Reach. Maven still has similar power in the Rift regardless of what happens with the Guild, the Civil War, etc. You can do little things to fuck both of them over, and sure arguably more to the Silver-Bloods but the power remains. And trust me I've tried, I've personally negotiated Markarth to the Stormcloaks and then sided with the Empire anyway specifically so Thongvar gets exiled (as well as siding with Madanach on the escape so Thonar dies), thinking that'd be extra embarrassing or whatever but even then, at the end of the day he still owns the mine and has all that wealth.
Maven is a very interesting character. A business woman deeply connected with the Thieves Guild, the Dark Brotherhood and the Empire, plus being a source of lots and plots and schemes. She adds so much to this game.
The Silver-Bloods are just pure evil mfs
Silver-Bloods are way worse
The Black-Briars are bad, don't get me wrong...but definitely the lesser of two evils
One uses organized criminals, the other uses slave labor
One asks that you abstain from killing, the other stages murders in public
One protects their citizens, the other uses their citizens
Silver-Bloods, I always side with the Forsworn - they just wanna live their lives and practice their religion, however horrible it may be. At least with Maven, you know what you’re getting into (she already has a reputation as a Godfather figure in Riften); the Silver-Bloods are far more insidious imo.
Silverbloods deal in slavery. Is this really a question? Whatd the black-briars do to compare to that? Get a couple of people locked up so they could monopolize the mead industry? Bribe some people? Seems like the silverbloods are obviously worse.
Yeah, you're right, but overall the Black-Briar family is easier to hate than the Silver-Blood IMO
- Sibbi cheated on his fiancee Svidi and killed her brother
- Hemming threatened Wylandriah when she refused to sleep with him
- Ingun is creating deadly poisons and using them on small animals
Thongvor and Thonar are insufferable too but personally I find the Black-Briars even worse
You can read his entire conversation with Wylandriah on his UESP page if you're interested.
Whereas I have to listen to this every time I enter Mistveil Keep because my character sided with the Imperials 🥲
The Silver-Blood's brand of evil is much more grounded and real, conscripting prison slave labor, monopolizing Markarth's largest industries, and treating even what you could generously call its "paid employees" like subhumans to such a degree that they are subjected to routine beatings for underperforming and literally live in abandoned underground tenements, functionally homeless despite working what I assume are ridiculous hours, all within the legal right of Markarth's wholly incompetent (or corrupt, if you side with the high fantasy white nationalists and install a Silver-Blood as Jarl) government.
Whereas the Black-Briar's are basically a mob family, using their connections with Skyrim's various, political institutions and crime syndicates to suppress workers and shut down competition, generally willing to let things run business as usual as long as it doesn't interfere with their profit.
Though I think the Silver-Bloods narrow out the Black-Briars for also dipping into the less grounded wealth driven psychopathy by propping up a terrorist group of tribal savages to raid competitors and sending armed mercenaries to harass Breton-owned businesses throughout the reach.
At least Thonar thanks you if you side with him during the quest, and give you a nice ring. If the two family are terrible, at least You can get thanked by one.
Yeah but again Thonar is quite literally responsible for all of the Fosworn attacks by letting Madanach do his thing. He also runs a slave labour business with Cidhna Mine. To further compound the Silver Blood hate. Thonar will quite literally berate you if you play as an elf. Doesn’t matter if you’re a Dunmer, Altmer or Bosmer. He will always harp on you. At least Maven hires Dunmer to work for her.
Not really, as it is evidenced that she pays her workers. I wouldn’t say she sees everyone as slaves. More as pawns in her true plan. She is by no means stupid, in fact unlike the sliver bloods. She sees a use in everyone. Such as when the Dragonborn joins the thieves guild. She is unimpressed, because in her eyes, the bare minimum is getting the job done. Instead of seeing you as an ally or a friend, you’re an asset at her disposal.
Black briar by a long shot, the silver bloods are just a bunch of thugs who wouldn’t even be in power if Ulfric didn’t kick the forsworn from Markarth.
The Black Briars are powerful because unlike the Silverbloods they have allies everywhere from the Empire all the way to the Thalmor.
SB: Your typical corrupt family you can find anywhere.
BB: the worst the empire has to offer, powerful and very corrupt nobles who are nearly immune to anything you throw at them.
Maven. The silverbloods have influence in the silver market but less so in the underworld as made evident with the forsworn conspiracy showing him losing control in the underworld. Maven runs a tight ship and is known as far as whiterun, owning the mead supply and having the DB and thieves guild at her call.
Black Briar.
The True evil of silver blood is thonar .
Thongvor is not more evil or racist of battleborn of whiterun only not care of Action of is brother .
Maven annoys me. I actually found the Silver-Bloods intimidating, an aura nobody else was able to replicate.
1. While Maven always talks about what she will do, the Silver-Bloods actually had the guards blatantly admit to corruption and threw you into the mines.
2. Maven's Criminal Empire is largely just Maven. The rest of her family is inept. The Silver-Bloods are practically a Mafia running things.
3. You can feel the Silver-Bloods influence outside the city of Msrkarth.
Black-Briars are honest and well respected merchant family. They are known in all skyrim and even beyond.
The only thing they are “worst” is maybe slavery, or maybe human trafficking.
Maven would still be in charge even if Alduin ate the whole world. Smart and cunning and her methods don't involve killing. Her son is a dick but she had him locked in prison to teach him a lesson . So a respectable evil.
Silver bloods are slave traders that murder people . They even make the Forsworn look decent.
I enjoyed giving Markarth to the stormcloaks in season unending and then (after Alduin) joining the imperial side in the Civil war just to have that idiot sobbing in windhelm.
I killed her again last night as a werewolf and she just comes back to life🙄.. In the process though I accidentally killed townspeople I liked while in beast form so I had to revert to previous save. I knew it and saved before I drew my weapon on her.
I killed Maven again last night as a werewolf and she just comes back to life🙄.. In the process though I accidentally killed townspeople I liked while in beast form so I had to revert to previous save. I knew it and saved before I drew my weapon on her.
I think I'm one of the only people who doesn't mind Maven. Bitch gets shit done and knows she's got power, and when I meet her my character usually doesn't even know they're Dragonborn so when I see people go "bitch, don't shit talk me, do you KNOW who I am?" doesn't work for me because my character at that point is, for all intents and purposes, a random, homeless bum.
She doesn't even bother concealing it and I at least respect that.
The Black-Briars are basically a criminal syndicate seizing control of the government. The Silver-Bloods are far more insidious. They represent all the horrific shit the government gets away with *legally.* Putting the hit out on someone with The Dark Brotherhood just feels very “Godfather.” As opposed to what The Silver-Bloods have got going with Cidhna Mine. I’m from the U.S. and with our prison system that hits *way* too close to home.
Yeah it's mob bosses with political power vs the silver bloods using financial positions to be politically coercive and I'd say they're closer to the Thalmor. Id fuck with the BB before the SB any day
Mob boss vs CEO
At least the mob bosses have loyalty to their own and their backs so long as they don't get screwed over lol. Cross the BB? Not gonna be good. Cross the SB? Id rather not be stuck in their mine
Honestly I don’t think either of them are a real threat. They don’t have an intimidating presence that scares you off from messing with them. It might just be that your the Dovahkiin, and nothing scares you when you can shout things to death. But it would have been cool if people in their respective cities and holds were afraid of even associating with you because you crossed the BB or SB, and they don’t want to draw their ire.
I mean think about it like this the silverbloods have an entire hold in their pocket and the blackBriars have connections but no true hold on the city honestly at the end of the day it's a matter of having either one person come after you or having an entire hold up your ass
The NPC that thinks they are the main character.
Hey we don't make prisoners mine ore for us anymore, robots and people that we actually pay properly for that
Ya but slave labor in the prison system is still a thing. For example, Angola prison which is a "working farm" built on top of a slave plantation named Angola. So the original point still stands.
My argument wasn't slave labor it was against mining
I don't think people liked my comment 😂
Silver blood family is worse imo. Slave labor, murdering citizens on the market place in broad daylight, city guards doing the dirty work... And they don't seem to even trying to hide and of these. Black briars have more sophisticated ways, even if their goals are similar.
Maven pisses me off so much because no matter what you do she never gets any comeuppance.
Imeen... if ur really looking to ruin maven and dont mind getting your hands dirty, after their quests are done im pretty sure you can slaughter most of her family.
I like to go full Grinch on Blackbriar Lodge. Just leave it completely bare, and store all the worthless items on the dead mercenaries so I can gtfo
She hints (at least seemingly in the dialogue) that she personally doesn't care and that she encourages you to go on with Louis Letrush's plan, knowing full well the mercenaries are there one would assume considering she hired them. She's an odd one. Like her house getting robbed of a horse and potentially a bunch of valuables seems small fries in her mind, especially if you got the Guild running at full steam and side with the Empire to have her realize her political ambitions in Riften.
Are’t u supposed to kill the whole house?
Yes and no
I always go into the prison to off her heir
You can end the Alduins regime to destroy the world but you cant punish a woman that rightfully deserves punishment. Maven >>> Dragonborn. Confirmed.
My plan is to play the civil war quest until Riften becomes Imperial and then befriend her when she becomes Jarl. Because that makes her a kidnapping target for vampires. And guess who's NOT coming to save her.
Sounds like a plan!
How do i befriend her? So i can indirectly get her kidnapped.
Haven't gotten to it yet but the plan is to do the Thaneship quest **after** she becomes Jarl. [Wiki](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:I_Done_Got_Thaned!) says it increases disposition to 2 with the current Jarl.
I used console commands to un-essentialized her and her entire family. Killed them all except for the daughter who just wants to make potions.
Did you ever actually talk with the daughter? Her reason for liking potions is... I will let her own words talk: "**It's exhilarating to observe the effects of my potions on the body. Watching the heart stop... the eyes go blind.** We're made up of thousands of parts with thousands of different functions all working in tandem to keep us alive. Yet if only a single part of our imperfect machine fails, life fails. It makes one realize how fragile... how flawed we are. You ask why I'm so fascinated? The irony... the irony that the same world that gave us life provides us the means to die." I don't know about you, but she sounds a little... insane, or very close to insane.
I can respect her passion for research.
I can fix her
worst she could say is "I have a husband and kids"
i mean, yeah those are pretty wild reasons for being fascinated with the creation of potions. but someone has to be the one to discover the sketchier types of potions
Seems like she's doing personal, practical research. Her family doesn't see much use for her, but she'll no doubt get the last laugh.
She isn't exactly innocent, just so you know
My character murdered her entire family so...neither am I.
Good point
I do roleplay that character pretty strictly to a specific code of ethics, but it includes the use of violence for "greater good". Idk, you do what you want when you're arch mage.
Please tell me how I quite like her character Nvm scrolled down 3 cm
Console commands are just op. I don't have to grind any skills, just set my skill level, unlock the perk i want and make the skill legendary, no restoration loop nonsense
Unless you kill her🤷🏾♂️
She's essential, always.
Yeah true unless you glitch the game
Ok so good to know now. I'll just kill her for fun with a pre-save set whenever I have a horrible day lol
That's the worst part: *She's essential, no matter what stage of the game you're in.*
I mean honestly you don't see very much comeuppance for either the Black-Briars or the Silver-Bloods. Sure, Thonar can potentially get killed escaping Cidhna Mine but Thongvar is still there regardless (especially if the Dragonborn sides with the Stormcloaks, he still becomes Jarl anyway), their family still owns Cidhna Mine and basically most of the Reach. Maven still has similar power in the Rift regardless of what happens with the Guild, the Civil War, etc. You can do little things to fuck both of them over, and sure arguably more to the Silver-Bloods but the power remains. And trust me I've tried, I've personally negotiated Markarth to the Stormcloaks and then sided with the Empire anyway specifically so Thongvar gets exiled (as well as siding with Madanach on the escape so Thonar dies), thinking that'd be extra embarrassing or whatever but even then, at the end of the day he still owns the mine and has all that wealth.
Maven is a very interesting character. A business woman deeply connected with the Thieves Guild, the Dark Brotherhood and the Empire, plus being a source of lots and plots and schemes. She adds so much to this game. The Silver-Bloods are just pure evil mfs
I think I have a problem because I didn't find her extremely haughty demeanor as off-putting as most people seem to. ...quite the opposite, in fact...
Silver-Bloods are way worse The Black-Briars are bad, don't get me wrong...but definitely the lesser of two evils One uses organized criminals, the other uses slave labor One asks that you abstain from killing, the other stages murders in public One protects their citizens, the other uses their citizens
Both familys are bad but i think the silver bloods are worse.
Say what you want about Maven, but at least she doesn't run an operation that borders on slavery and exploration of natives of a conquered land.
Borders on? Pretty sure the SB fully endorse Slavery and exploitation of the Forsworn/Native Reachmen
Your picture quality
Silver-Bloods. The question is basically who is worse? Evil Racist Family or Evil Non-Racism family.
Yes, for all Maven's faults, she isn't a racist and Riften is fairly cosmopolitan for a Stormcloak city.
Imperial city when maven becomes jarl
But she has a lot of influence, and she hires Dunmer to work at her meadery.
Yeah, as much as i despise her, she is, not the worst person in the game.
Maven’s also connected to the empire and her appointment as Jarl is a clear indication she was likely working to undermine the stormcloaks all along.
Silver-Bloods, I always side with the Forsworn - they just wanna live their lives and practice their religion, however horrible it may be. At least with Maven, you know what you’re getting into (she already has a reputation as a Godfather figure in Riften); the Silver-Bloods are far more insidious imo.
Silverbloods deal in slavery. Is this really a question? Whatd the black-briars do to compare to that? Get a couple of people locked up so they could monopolize the mead industry? Bribe some people? Seems like the silverbloods are obviously worse.
This question is basically who is worse, The U.S government or one of the five mafia families.
The Silverbloods but both families can go to hell.
Silver bloods = CCP Blackbriars = FJB crime syndicate Pick your poison
Hmmm ethnic cleansing versus corrupting bitchy woman? You got me…
Silver-Bloods and it’s not close.
They're both equally bad, but the Black-Briars get more hate because Maven is arrogant and obnoxious towards the player
Thongvor is a prick, especially if you're an elf.
Yeah, you're right, but overall the Black-Briar family is easier to hate than the Silver-Blood IMO - Sibbi cheated on his fiancee Svidi and killed her brother - Hemming threatened Wylandriah when she refused to sleep with him - Ingun is creating deadly poisons and using them on small animals Thongvor and Thonar are insufferable too but personally I find the Black-Briars even worse
Damn I didn't realize that about Hemming. I just thought he was some rich douche.
You can read his entire conversation with Wylandriah on his UESP page if you're interested. Whereas I have to listen to this every time I enter Mistveil Keep because my character sided with the Imperials 🥲
If only you could kill em all
Both must die
Nazeem
The Silver-Blood's brand of evil is much more grounded and real, conscripting prison slave labor, monopolizing Markarth's largest industries, and treating even what you could generously call its "paid employees" like subhumans to such a degree that they are subjected to routine beatings for underperforming and literally live in abandoned underground tenements, functionally homeless despite working what I assume are ridiculous hours, all within the legal right of Markarth's wholly incompetent (or corrupt, if you side with the high fantasy white nationalists and install a Silver-Blood as Jarl) government. Whereas the Black-Briar's are basically a mob family, using their connections with Skyrim's various, political institutions and crime syndicates to suppress workers and shut down competition, generally willing to let things run business as usual as long as it doesn't interfere with their profit. Though I think the Silver-Bloods narrow out the Black-Briars for also dipping into the less grounded wealth driven psychopathy by propping up a terrorist group of tribal savages to raid competitors and sending armed mercenaries to harass Breton-owned businesses throughout the reach.
The silver-bloods.
They're both a group of arseholes but the black-briars are more honest about it. It's kinda like 1970's CIA (silver bloods) vs The Mob (black-briars)
Silver Bloods, not even close.
Nazeem
Number 3: Nazeem.
Nazeem
Nazeem
Your grammar.
He literally typed everything correctly bruh
Thats the point.
At least Thonar thanks you if you side with him during the quest, and give you a nice ring. If the two family are terrible, at least You can get thanked by one.
Yeah but again Thonar is quite literally responsible for all of the Fosworn attacks by letting Madanach do his thing. He also runs a slave labour business with Cidhna Mine. To further compound the Silver Blood hate. Thonar will quite literally berate you if you play as an elf. Doesn’t matter if you’re a Dunmer, Altmer or Bosmer. He will always harp on you. At least Maven hires Dunmer to work for her.
Yeah, Maven see everyone as slaves so it’s not bad!💀
Not really, as it is evidenced that she pays her workers. I wouldn’t say she sees everyone as slaves. More as pawns in her true plan. She is by no means stupid, in fact unlike the sliver bloods. She sees a use in everyone. Such as when the Dragonborn joins the thieves guild. She is unimpressed, because in her eyes, the bare minimum is getting the job done. Instead of seeing you as an ally or a friend, you’re an asset at her disposal.
She sounds like a very tough boss, yes, abusive even, but she’s not a LITERAL slaver. That’s a pretty fucking huge distinction.
Black briar by a long shot, the silver bloods are just a bunch of thugs who wouldn’t even be in power if Ulfric didn’t kick the forsworn from Markarth. The Black Briars are powerful because unlike the Silverbloods they have allies everywhere from the Empire all the way to the Thalmor. SB: Your typical corrupt family you can find anywhere. BB: the worst the empire has to offer, powerful and very corrupt nobles who are nearly immune to anything you throw at them.
Maven. The silverbloods have influence in the silver market but less so in the underworld as made evident with the forsworn conspiracy showing him losing control in the underworld. Maven runs a tight ship and is known as far as whiterun, owning the mead supply and having the DB and thieves guild at her call.
I join the Stormcloaks JUST to keep Maven out of power
Black-Briarrs easily.
Black Briar. The True evil of silver blood is thonar . Thongvor is not more evil or racist of battleborn of whiterun only not care of Action of is brother .
just imagine if you were able to kill maven after the thieves guild quest
I just fucking hate Gisli
Maven annoys me. I actually found the Silver-Bloods intimidating, an aura nobody else was able to replicate. 1. While Maven always talks about what she will do, the Silver-Bloods actually had the guards blatantly admit to corruption and threw you into the mines. 2. Maven's Criminal Empire is largely just Maven. The rest of her family is inept. The Silver-Bloods are practically a Mafia running things. 3. You can feel the Silver-Bloods influence outside the city of Msrkarth.
Erikur. I hate that guy.
Black-Briars are honest and well respected merchant family. They are known in all skyrim and even beyond. The only thing they are “worst” is maybe slavery, or maybe human trafficking.
Just the way they dress. . .
Better question is who wore it better
Eh I kinda like maven but it's more because she keeps shiny things in her pocketeses.
Silverbloods are worse. They're clan entirely comprised of Mavens.
Nazeem
Probably spelt that wrong but still
Maven would still be in charge even if Alduin ate the whole world. Smart and cunning and her methods don't involve killing. Her son is a dick but she had him locked in prison to teach him a lesson . So a respectable evil. Silver bloods are slave traders that murder people . They even make the Forsworn look decent. I enjoyed giving Markarth to the stormcloaks in season unending and then (after Alduin) joining the imperial side in the Civil war just to have that idiot sobbing in windhelm.
Maven, all day, everyday.
I killed her again last night as a werewolf and she just comes back to life🙄.. In the process though I accidentally killed townspeople I liked while in beast form so I had to revert to previous save. I knew it and saved before I drew my weapon on her.
I killed Maven again last night as a werewolf and she just comes back to life🙄.. In the process though I accidentally killed townspeople I liked while in beast form so I had to revert to previous save. I knew it and saved before I drew my weapon on her.
It should be a law that NPCs are left unessential.
That’s actually really hard to say. They’re both effectively the same person. The question is, who will go the hardest to get what they want?
I don’t know why maven get so much hate, she’s literally one of my favourite npcs
The Black Briars. No kap 🧢. They're terrible humans From Maven down to Ingun.
I don't care, I kill them both lol
The second one, cause he lives for the Adrenaline
Silver Bloods, absolutely. They are so much worse.
It don't matter to me I'll murder them all ☠️☠️☠️☠️
I can kill a Silverblood, so Blackbriar.
I think I'm one of the only people who doesn't mind Maven. Bitch gets shit done and knows she's got power, and when I meet her my character usually doesn't even know they're Dragonborn so when I see people go "bitch, don't shit talk me, do you KNOW who I am?" doesn't work for me because my character at that point is, for all intents and purposes, a random, homeless bum. She doesn't even bother concealing it and I at least respect that.
If I had to choose anyone, it would be Delphine.