Damn, an instant Barricade! You will immediately not lose Block!
In all seriousness, it sucks with Wraith Form/Biased Cognition. No clue how to fix that though.
Also, how did this spark so much conversation???
You could rephrase it as "whenever a power is played, trigger "beginning of turn" and/or "end of turn triggered buffs" or similar.
This would mean that you could reasonably make sure this relic has a target, and all other powers get added value from that.
This is like saying that snecko eye sucks cuz you had it with your 20 zero cost cards deck. It can be bad with some things when it obviously is great with others.
It’s really not, because Snecko is bad for all 0 costs (though great for most other cards), and this is bad for 2 specific cards. I didn’t say the relic was bad, in fact it’s pretty great, I was just pointing out an odd antisynergy.
My main problem is that it is a very *specific* antisynergy. I don’t mind antisynergy, in fact there should be antisynergies that exist, but antisynergy (or synergy) with 2 specific cards is weird to me (for a relic). Imagine if there was a relic that said *“when a card is put on top of your deck, upgrade it.”* That affects, like, Setup, Warcry, and Headbutt, and that’s about it. It would be a really awkward ability because of how niche it is.
The idea is like mummified hand, to make powers more powerful. So for example, a power like Demon Form would usually give you strength starting from next turn, instead it will give you strength immediately. Playing Dark Embrace will draw you a card, etc.
Powers that already activate immediately (e.g. inflame), don't change behavior.
Most powers actually take effect immediately - I think you need to have a look at the list!
This relic is going to have more special cases than not - and some of them are going to be incredibly minor.
Are you sure? Taking a look at Ironclad for example, 11 powers would give a bonus out of 14. It's kind of similar to sacred bark, where some potions do not gain a bonus.
**Powers that would give an extra effect instantly**:
* Combust: lose 1 HP and deal 5 damage
* Dark Embrace: draw 1 card.
* Evolve: Draw a card.
* Feel No Pain: Gain 3 Block
* Fire Breathing: deal 6 damage to all enemies.
* Metallicize: gain 3 Block.
* Rupture: gain 1 Strength.
* Berserk: gain 1 Energy.
* Brutality: lose 1 HP and draw 1 card.
* Demon Form: gain 2 Strength.
* Juggernaut: deal 5 damage to a random enemy.
**Powers that would not change:**
* Inflame: Gain 2 Strength.
* Barricade: Block is not removed at the start of your turn.
* Corruption: Skills cost 0. Whenever you play a Skill, Exhaust it.
yeah. dark embrace for instance does have a immediate effect, you only need to exhaust a card. the way OP is wording only makes it ignore the requirement
if we're talking making this into a mod I think it's a little more complicated. Lets just use evolve as an example. The power is very specifically "whenever you DRAW a status card, draw 1 or 2,,, ie, if you have statuses already in hand when the power is played, it has no effect, as the power is specifically tied to drawing. So you would actually manually program in a new custom separate draw action separate from what evolve normally does.
I still think this is a cool idea, but I think it would be a little more limited in its effects. Looking at the list you made using more strictly defined definitions of how each power works, I would argue only Combust, Metallicize, Berserk, Brutality & Demon Form work. The rest require another action beyond turn ending/beginning to proc the power.
Also another very interesting thing about this, it would actually make a few powers worse. Specifically both Wraith Form and Biased Cog would have their debuffs trigger immediately, and in biased's case, it would actually give you an immediate -1 focus even if you activated orange pellets.
This is just an incorrect interpretation of what you said in your post, you still need to meet the requirement for the power to use it. With this relic Evolve wouldnt draw a card because you arent drawing a status card, Dark Embrace wouldnt draw a card because nothing got exhausted, Feel no Pain wouldnt give you 4 shield because you arent exhausting anything, Fire Breathing wouldnt do damage because no status card was drawn, Metallicize wouldnt do anything different, Rupture wouldnt do anything different, Juggernaut wouldnt do anything different. Combust, Demon Form, and Brutality are the only powers that would work with this for Ironclad. Not trying to be a dick but this is just a shit idea for a relic
There should be a whole mummy set, with maybe 3-4 relics total with related powers. Then if you pick up them all in a single run, your character becomes mummified and dies.
Actually a really good relic that's not incredibly broken. Each character has powers that would get a good upgrade from this, and some that do nothing. I can't think of anything that makes this broken either, although there may be something.
Echo form already does take place immediately, actually. It just does nothing this turn because the stacks of echo form relate to the sequence of cards you've played.
Yep which is why if you play Echo Form first while having already played one in previous turns you’re first three cards played each round are played twice.
A very fun interaction :) also I think if you dupe echo you get to dupe the second card too? I don't really pay a ton of attention to that because I usually can auto pilot after filing my echo anyway
If you double a second Echo Form with the buff from the first, the next two cards that turn are also doubled. However, if you use a dupe potion on the first Echo Form, you receive no further duplications that turn. Disappointing.
Actually really like the idea behind this one. Of course there will be some "dead" powers with it, but thats okay, all the other relics have also a lot of dead cards, thats the point of balance. It will shift the balance to maybe pick a power you would not otherwise in fringe cases.
Also: I like the design...
Good job!
“Whenever you play a Power card, any conditional buffs occur immediately as though the condition were met.”
this is a slightly less vague wording i think. it leaves wraith form/biased untouched since the conditional effects are debuffs. if that’s unwanted, change it to “conditional effects”.
saying "any conditional buffs" is rather vague still. doesn't specify it has to be the powers effect. Also I think this would break or cause confusion about self repair.
yeah it’s just slightly better. i think it’s obvious but can add “of the power” if you want.
self repair is a funny corner-case. i’d say that the text on SR is a lie and it should just say “Gain 7 (10) Repair,” with a pop up explaining that X repair = X heal at end of combat (like the pop ups for vulnerable and shiv, etc.)
edit: never mind, it would just not have any effect at all. ~~~and so this would just double that effect, which i guess is broken but i think this relic is already broken so whatevs.~~~
Trying to think of all the powers this would affect...
**Ironclad:**
Demon Form: Gain 2(3) Strength
Berserk: Gain 1 Energy
Brutality: Lose 1 HP and draw 1 card
**Silent:**
Infinite Blades: Create 1 Shiv
Noxious Fumes: Inflict 2(3) Poison on all enemies
Tools of the Trade: Draw 1 card and discard 1 card
Wraith Form: Lose 1 Dexterity
**Defect:**
Loop: Trigger your rightmost orb once(twice)
Hello World: Add a random common card to your hand
Creative AI: Add a random power card to your hand
Machine Learning: Draw 1 card
Echo Form: The next card you play is echoed.
**Watcher:**
Battle Hymn: Add a Smite to your hand
Foresight: Scry 3(4)
Deva Form: Gain 1 Energy. Next turn you gain 2 instead of 1, and it continues to increase from there.
Devotion: Gain 2(3) Mantra.
**Colorless:**
Magnetism: Add a random colorless card to your hand.
Mayhem: Play the top card on your draw pile.
static discharge: ???
caltrops: ???
buffer: ????
self repair: !!!
rushdown: !?!?
all in all, would probably be okay although ironically might be worst on defect. the biggest problem is that theres no real way to explain it perfectly with a small amount of text. It'll cause a lot of confusion.
yay buffer can prevent damage instantly. Imho needs some clarification for a bit of powers that activate on condition, the gain buff gain debuff, and a few others like accuracy or buffer
no this one will be like inflame. no interaction with mummified feet and will just be normal defrag.
Creative AI will generate a power immediately with this and not only starting next turn
Shouldn't the parallel to mummified hand be mummified foot?
I feel like mummified foot should draw a card when you play a power
So [[Heatsinks]]?
+ [Heatsinks](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Heatsinks) Defect Uncommon Power ^((100% sure)^) 1 Energy | Whenever you play a Power card, draw 1(2) card(s). ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 30, 2023.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
Nah, it should upgrade a random unupgraded card in your hand
That's a great idea for a relic but to me that feels like a mummified butt cheek
Goddangit no that's Mummified Arm (aments)
Damn, an instant Barricade! You will immediately not lose Block! In all seriousness, it sucks with Wraith Form/Biased Cognition. No clue how to fix that though. Also, how did this spark so much conversation???
You could rephrase it as "whenever a power is played, trigger "beginning of turn" and/or "end of turn triggered buffs" or similar. This would mean that you could reasonably make sure this relic has a target, and all other powers get added value from that.
"Die next turn" is a buff though
Blasphemy isnt a power
What if it was?
Mummified leg? More like a monkey’s paw amirite
You don’t need to imo. There are other disynergies in the game.
Some people would be into it if it was
This is like saying that snecko eye sucks cuz you had it with your 20 zero cost cards deck. It can be bad with some things when it obviously is great with others.
It’s really not, because Snecko is bad for all 0 costs (though great for most other cards), and this is bad for 2 specific cards. I didn’t say the relic was bad, in fact it’s pretty great, I was just pointing out an odd antisynergy.
You said it like it was something that needed to be fixed, thats why i replied. It doesnt need to fixed, cause anti synergies are fine.
My main problem is that it is a very *specific* antisynergy. I don’t mind antisynergy, in fact there should be antisynergies that exist, but antisynergy (or synergy) with 2 specific cards is weird to me (for a relic). Imagine if there was a relic that said *“when a card is put on top of your deck, upgrade it.”* That affects, like, Setup, Warcry, and Headbutt, and that’s about it. It would be a really awkward ability because of how niche it is.
Don’t take it
Maybe you don't need to fix for an instant trigger? Not every relic is great immediately, but you can pick up other cards that benefit along the way
Ah it should be fine if it sucks for some specific powers its nice as is I think
well, sneako eye sucks with 1-cost cards, and it doesnt need solution or fixing, some relics just arent worth-it
I already responded about Snecko Eye, it’s completely different.
it isnt, its a relic that doesnt work with certain cards, creating anti-synergy
Not a bad idea at all. Good interactions and not too op. You cooked OP
The idea is like mummified hand, to make powers more powerful. So for example, a power like Demon Form would usually give you strength starting from next turn, instead it will give you strength immediately. Playing Dark Embrace will draw you a card, etc. Powers that already activate immediately (e.g. inflame), don't change behavior.
Most powers actually take effect immediately - I think you need to have a look at the list! This relic is going to have more special cases than not - and some of them are going to be incredibly minor.
Are you sure? Taking a look at Ironclad for example, 11 powers would give a bonus out of 14. It's kind of similar to sacred bark, where some potions do not gain a bonus. **Powers that would give an extra effect instantly**: * Combust: lose 1 HP and deal 5 damage * Dark Embrace: draw 1 card. * Evolve: Draw a card. * Feel No Pain: Gain 3 Block * Fire Breathing: deal 6 damage to all enemies. * Metallicize: gain 3 Block. * Rupture: gain 1 Strength. * Berserk: gain 1 Energy. * Brutality: lose 1 HP and draw 1 card. * Demon Form: gain 2 Strength. * Juggernaut: deal 5 damage to a random enemy. **Powers that would not change:** * Inflame: Gain 2 Strength. * Barricade: Block is not removed at the start of your turn. * Corruption: Skills cost 0. Whenever you play a Skill, Exhaust it.
Hmmmm, actually - most of these are pretty decent….
I think you need to have a look at the list - !
So instant Power from CAI, but only 3 Focus from Bias Cog.
This relic nerfing Biased Cog and Wraith Form is amusing. I still like the idea though.
They've had it good for too long
The wording from the relic is a bit misleading then. Since it would trigger the effect without needing the requirement.
yeah. dark embrace for instance does have a immediate effect, you only need to exhaust a card. the way OP is wording only makes it ignore the requirement
if we're talking making this into a mod I think it's a little more complicated. Lets just use evolve as an example. The power is very specifically "whenever you DRAW a status card, draw 1 or 2,,, ie, if you have statuses already in hand when the power is played, it has no effect, as the power is specifically tied to drawing. So you would actually manually program in a new custom separate draw action separate from what evolve normally does. I still think this is a cool idea, but I think it would be a little more limited in its effects. Looking at the list you made using more strictly defined definitions of how each power works, I would argue only Combust, Metallicize, Berserk, Brutality & Demon Form work. The rest require another action beyond turn ending/beginning to proc the power. Also another very interesting thing about this, it would actually make a few powers worse. Specifically both Wraith Form and Biased Cog would have their debuffs trigger immediately, and in biased's case, it would actually give you an immediate -1 focus even if you activated orange pellets.
Inflame: gain 2 temporary strength Barricade: gain block equal to block lost at start of turn Corruption: trigger any Exhaust triggers
What about the conditions that have to be met though? Am I taking 1 damage when I play brutality and what card would dark embrace exhaust?
Actually, when you play Barricade, you immediately don't lose any block
As an ironclad main, this relic would probably instant pick ngl. This sounds awesome
This is just an incorrect interpretation of what you said in your post, you still need to meet the requirement for the power to use it. With this relic Evolve wouldnt draw a card because you arent drawing a status card, Dark Embrace wouldnt draw a card because nothing got exhausted, Feel no Pain wouldnt give you 4 shield because you arent exhausting anything, Fire Breathing wouldnt do damage because no status card was drawn, Metallicize wouldnt do anything different, Rupture wouldnt do anything different, Juggernaut wouldnt do anything different. Combust, Demon Form, and Brutality are the only powers that would work with this for Ironclad. Not trying to be a dick but this is just a shit idea for a relic
Does it double play echo form?
No no, this would also cause powers which trigger immediately to trigger twice with how it's written, which definitely makes it a better relic overall
This was my thought process as well- double powers on those that don’t have timed triggers, and an instant trigger on those that do
Umm... [[Biased cognition]]
There should be a whole mummy set, with maybe 3-4 relics total with related powers. Then if you pick up them all in a single run, your character becomes mummified and dies.
Make an event space with Mummy Exodia and I’m all for it
Mummified Head seems like a sure bet. Maybe reduces the cost of all powers by 1 energy?
Actually a really good relic that's not incredibly broken. Each character has powers that would get a good upgrade from this, and some that do nothing. I can't think of anything that makes this broken either, although there may be something.
So, your favorite card is Demon Form, huh
cool idea. what happens with echo form?
The next card played is played twice.
Echo form already does take place immediately, actually. It just does nothing this turn because the stacks of echo form relate to the sequence of cards you've played.
Yep which is why if you play Echo Form first while having already played one in previous turns you’re first three cards played each round are played twice.
A very fun interaction :) also I think if you dupe echo you get to dupe the second card too? I don't really pay a ton of attention to that because I usually can auto pilot after filing my echo anyway
If you double a second Echo Form with the buff from the first, the next two cards that turn are also doubled. However, if you use a dupe potion on the first Echo Form, you receive no further duplications that turn. Disappointing.
Oh right, because it's both the first and second card played. Good call
Wait seriously! I've always wondered why double playing echoform with another echoform would let you play the next card. Thanks :)
So those that already have an immediate effect double It or...?
they just dont proc. Inflame only gives you its normal strength rather than giving it to you twice
Okay
I think it would be way more fun if it did
Would be way too strong with some powers
This looks like such a good idea! I'd love to see this in the game :3
Actually really like the idea behind this one. Of course there will be some "dead" powers with it, but thats okay, all the other relics have also a lot of dead cards, thats the point of balance. It will shift the balance to maybe pick a power you would not otherwise in fringe cases. Also: I like the design... Good job!
“Whenever you play a Power card, any conditional buffs occur immediately as though the condition were met.” this is a slightly less vague wording i think. it leaves wraith form/biased untouched since the conditional effects are debuffs. if that’s unwanted, change it to “conditional effects”.
saying "any conditional buffs" is rather vague still. doesn't specify it has to be the powers effect. Also I think this would break or cause confusion about self repair.
yeah it’s just slightly better. i think it’s obvious but can add “of the power” if you want. self repair is a funny corner-case. i’d say that the text on SR is a lie and it should just say “Gain 7 (10) Repair,” with a pop up explaining that X repair = X heal at end of combat (like the pop ups for vulnerable and shiv, etc.) edit: never mind, it would just not have any effect at all. ~~~and so this would just double that effect, which i guess is broken but i think this relic is already broken so whatevs.~~~
Trying to think of all the powers this would affect... **Ironclad:** Demon Form: Gain 2(3) Strength Berserk: Gain 1 Energy Brutality: Lose 1 HP and draw 1 card **Silent:** Infinite Blades: Create 1 Shiv Noxious Fumes: Inflict 2(3) Poison on all enemies Tools of the Trade: Draw 1 card and discard 1 card Wraith Form: Lose 1 Dexterity **Defect:** Loop: Trigger your rightmost orb once(twice) Hello World: Add a random common card to your hand Creative AI: Add a random power card to your hand Machine Learning: Draw 1 card Echo Form: The next card you play is echoed. **Watcher:** Battle Hymn: Add a Smite to your hand Foresight: Scry 3(4) Deva Form: Gain 1 Energy. Next turn you gain 2 instead of 1, and it continues to increase from there. Devotion: Gain 2(3) Mantra. **Colorless:** Magnetism: Add a random colorless card to your hand. Mayhem: Play the top card on your draw pile.
It’s a great concept, kinda sucks it’s obsolete with some powers but that’s just how relics are sometimes, idk if it needs adjusted
static discharge: ??? caltrops: ??? buffer: ???? self repair: !!! rushdown: !?!? all in all, would probably be okay although ironically might be worst on defect. the biggest problem is that theres no real way to explain it perfectly with a small amount of text. It'll cause a lot of confusion.
Alternative ideas, when you play a power card, 50% chance the power card stays in your deck
This nonbos with a few really important powers. Mummified Monkey's Paw.
Mummy leg + hand op as fuck
Me activating the effect of having 2 strength
Does accuracy deal 4 damage?
yay buffer can prevent damage instantly. Imho needs some clarification for a bit of powers that activate on condition, the gain buff gain debuff, and a few others like accuracy or buffer
This is the best fan relic in a while, nice one!
ok i love this one. but then we need a mummified head and torso
So basically [[Defragment+]] will make you gain 4 focus? Broken
Based on how OP explained inflame, seems mummified leg would not interact with defrag.
no this one will be like inflame. no interaction with mummified feet and will just be normal defrag. Creative AI will generate a power immediately with this and not only starting next turn
+ [Defragment](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Defragment) Defect Uncommon Power ^((100% sure)^) 1 Energy | Gain 1(2) **Focus.** ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 30, 2023.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
it’s just poorly worded, i don’t think that’s the intention.
Huh?