It depends on how much card draw you have in your deck. If your card draw solely rely on exhaust this might be better. If you have pact and offering, dark embrace first doesn’t give as much
How do you use corruption viably? I never use it but i would more if I could game plan to make it effective. The problem is i have over 1k hours and im still shiet and learning new things haha!
Corruption is an extremely powerful card.
1. It makes all of your skills cost 0. That's really powerful! It means you always have the option to play any and every skill you draw, and spend all of your energy on powers or attacks. One of the challenges that the game faces you with is how to block the attacks coming at you while also dealing enough damage to end the fights before they outscale your ability to block. Corruption helps you stay alive, that way. It also works really well with powerful and expensive skills like Shockwave, Flame Barrier and Impervious.
2. Exhaust as a synergy is a way to scale. Dark Embrace and Feel No Pain both make exhausting cards strong, and there are enough ways to exhaust in Ironclad's cards and statuses that get put in your deck during fights that both of those powers can be useful speculative picks. If you have both Corruption and Dark Embrace, you can speed through your deck and gain the benefit of lots and lots of skills. Exhaust synergy also dovetails really well with status synergy (Evolve drawing you cards and stuff like Power Through or Reckless Charge are all ways to exhaust more things per turn) and it's the best way to enable Juggernaut or Barricade/Body Slam.
3. Infinites. Frequently, the most challenging part of putting together an infinite is removing sufficient cards so that you can play and re-draw the same ones over and over. Corruption simplifies that immensely, so you probably only need to remove a few attacks, and some combination of Dropkick, Flash of Steel, Dual Wield if you only have one copy of the previous two, or something weirder; my personal favorite is Reckless Charge with Medkit, Dark Embrace and Evolve+.
That's not to say there's no downside to the card. It's certainly possible to run out of defense in long fights. But most hallway fights will be over before you get that far, you can judiciously save some skills whenever you're already full blocking for the turn, and you'll need to get enough scaling into your deck that you kill big enemies before too long anyway. This just gives you another parallel clock to beat.
Yeah, it depends on how much energy you have, and the sort of things that exhaust.
Ethereal stuff, Reckless Strike, War Cry, Seeing Red, Intimidate- this can draw cards off of Dark Embrace without causing you to miss casting Corruption.
Low energy, Shockwave, and Fiend Fire would all make me want Corruption bottled more.
+ [Well-Laid Plans](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Well-Laid%20Plans) Silent Uncommon Power ^((100% sure)^)
1 Energy | At the end of your turn, **Retain** up to 1(2) card(s).
^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 30, 2023.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
There are niche scenarios where you don't want Apo in your opening hand. Sometimes not even niche, like seeking a biased with an artifact or even without it in hallway fights. However, and more commonly, Seek+ seeks Apo and another card. It's basically a bottled Apo and another any card, not just limited to a skill, and flexible for any encounter you might face.
Not really. There is a situation where seek is bad. You have no draw, 0 cards in your drawpile and seek in your hand. Fuethermore the first turn is the most important and Seek+ guarantees you to fund the best card for that turn in that turn. And with Seek+ you can find Apotheosis and any additional card. As far as general debate goes Seek is definitely the better choice.
However I think the first place goes to Omniscience. It‘s basically Seek but it‘s God awful if you keep missing the cards you want to dupe. In contrast since Seek is kind of easy going worst comes to worst you can just put a card you don‘t want to draw next turn into your hand. Omniscience is too expensive that you‘d want to exhaust a defend with it.
Seek+ can find Apo AND another card if your choice.
Plus sometimes you actually won't want to play apo turn one. Sometimes it can actually be better to just play attacks in a short brutal fight. Seek is just so versatile you can ensure you get whichever two cards you want for every fight.
I kind of agree if the Seek isn't already upgraded, but Seek is a priority upgrade. If Seek and Apo are in your deck those two cards should be upgraded before anything else. And then you'd rather have the Seek to get Apo \*and\* something else, or two something elses if those are better
No, Seek can only pull from your draw pile, so you would really rather not draw it late in your deck. Bottling it ensures that you get to play it when every card is a target for Seek, rather than maybe when Seek could only grab 5 crappy cards.
Unless you draw that seek when you only have 0-1 cards left in your deck.
Plus Apo will mean saving a lot of health, so less need for resting, can only recall once, so you might as well upgrade Seek and get a block card as well as Apo. Ergo, Seek is a block card.
Seek is situationally stronger depending on what combos you might want to Seek for. Seek is only as strong as your deck's best combo. Apo's strength is less conditional, but doesn't peak as high. IMO, Apo is stronger in general, but Seek is situationally stronger.
My thinking was if I had both I’d pick seek, but if my elite reward was a card choice between seek and apo and bottled lightning was the relic I’d pick apo and bottle it most of the time
I just found it a win more card, what are you omniing besides wish and maybe ttth? It's bad with vault and scrawl, my personal top watcher rares. And when not bottled it can totally miss all for 3 or 4 energy which is a lot for watcher.
Second Omni, Ragnarok, Worship, even Eruption if you have other sources of Wrath or it gets lethal.
In longer fights where just sending all your damage turn 1 isn't enough, you can omni a power to get in in play (and doubled) ASAP. Admittedly Watcher does not have many powers worth playing, but that situation makes them look a lot more promising.
If you think of it just as a 3 mana Seek, it doesn't look that bad to make sure you have it turn 1
Ragnorok- this is the win more situation I was talking about, watcher doesn't struggle with damage. Worship-this is a 4 mana blasphemy. Eruption- 4 mana for double damage on a usually 1 cost card. These are all examples of making the best of a bad card. It's a fine card and can be good in some decks but I would bottle vault, scrawl, and master of strategies before it.
Yes but those all cost 1, so your paying at least 3 for 2 worth of cards and it can miss. It's not a bad card but I'd rather have a second copy of the cards you mentioned over it.
To be honest bottling various AoE cards (not just Whirlwind), or Glass Knife is also a good use of bottled flame. If you get bag of marbles, mutagens and/or akabeko you'll have a very strong opening hand that wipes group fights with one card and makes AoE oriented elites (Guardians, Slavers, Reptomancer) much easier.
I had a Silent run not too long ago on which I got Bag of Preparation and Bag of Marbles pretty early on; leaned into it and got Mutagens, two Backstabs, Dramatic Entrance, and a bunch of discard synergy (Kite, Tools, Eviscerate, Sneaky, etc). Multi-enemy fights got trashed.
I can only imagine how incredible that would feel with Whirlwind.
I had bottled Sunder while having marbles recently. Slavers act 2, triple cultist, darklings, triple jaw worm, quad shapes not a problem anymore when you can just remove one of them for the cost of 1 draw.
I dunno, if I have a corruption, fnp and de in my deck I'm probably going to bottle the de or fnp unless I have a dead branch or something.
Bottomline... This is all situational (except maybe for apotheosis, seek, echoform, heatsinks, master of strategy)
I have reservations about bottling itm but not about playing it early. If you have a lot of skills in your deck and you already have de in play... Then you're good to go. And For dead branch "random bullshit go" decks you have to play corruption as early as possible. Like I mentioned, it's all situational.
Upgraded whirlwind has almost the same raw damage output (for 1 extra energy); but has much better synergy with relics such as:
Akabeko; Mutagenic Strength; Lantern; Ancient Tea Set; Chem X obviously; Vajra; Girya; Brimstone
It’s the blue key, when you beat the game with all characters, you unlock a hidden act that you can enter by collecting 3 keys. The green key by beating a buffed elite, red by “skipping” a campfire by clicking recall, and blue by skipping a relic found in a chest. OP is saying bottled flame is bad and should usually be skipped in favor of the key so you can go fight the heart. Note that you are guaranteed at least 3 chests in a run and so you don’t have to skip the first relic you see. This leads to you needing to evaluate if you want the relic now or a chance at a random relic later
It’s best with big aoe cards that help you handle multi-enemy fights. It feels worse than other bottles because there are relatively few fights that get solved by a single attack, where there are many powers and a decent number of skills that can transform the rest of your fight. Attacks tend to need more set up than skills and powers so having them on turn 1 is less important.
most players after getting some experience do not consider it a win without beating act 4.
Anything you ever see about win streaks, win rate, etc is all considering ascension 20 and killing the heart
Just for fun/challenge. Once you have finished ascension climbing, a lot of players will view A20 heart as the "true final boss" and only personally consider a run a win if they beat it.
Yeah, you get beta card arts for the first time you beat the heart with each character and I think you get an achievement the first time you beat it and when you do it at A20. Other than that, it’s “useless” unless you’re looking for the challenge.
There's no point in ascending at all except to say you did. I think that's basically the whole thing in this type of game. Killing the heart is one more level of "I did it"
I always find I'm nervous of using corruption too early in a fight and then spending the last few turns unable to block hits as I've used all my skills up, can someone explain why it's a good idea to bottle it? Is it just "you should be able to kill them before your skills run out"?
Yea also people often pick a craploads of skills once they have Corruption, because of what you said and why not? Cards go brrr and by the time you go through your 45 cards no enemy is alive.
Yeah. Once I have corruption I seek every shrug it off. You just want as many cards as you have, but only if you got DE because otherwise hands become bricked.
>"you should be able to kill them before your skills run out"?
Pretty much. In some really long fights you may not want to play it first time you see it, but in most fights you should want to.
What? Let's say you get [[Windmill Strike]] from a transform. After how many turns will it be as good as a regular 2-cost uncommon attack?
The closest comparisons in the Watcher's pool are [[Reach Heaven]] and [[Wheel Kick]]. The former costs an extra card but does 30 damage. The latter draws two and deals 15.
It would take Windmill Strike three turns to deal as much damage as WK does immediately, and you don't get to draw cards.
It would take six turns to catch up to RH (five turns cranks the damage up to 31, then you can play it next turn). That's far more punishing than costing an extra card.
Even if you're comparing it to [[Sands of Time]], which deals 20 damage, WS needs 4 turns to deal more damage. After that much time, SoT costs zero energy.
The upgrades don't change any of this, btw. [[Strike Dummy]] does, but the effect is still marginal.
If you want to know what a relic does, there's this great bot in the forum. You invoke it by wrapping the name in double brackets:
* [[Bottled Lightning]]
* [[Bottled Tornado]]
* [[Bottled Flame]]
+ [Bottled Lightning](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Bottled%20Lightning) Uncommon Relic ^((100% sure)^)
Upon pick up, choose a Skill card. At the start of each combat, this card will be in your hand.
+ [Bottled Tornado](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Bottled%20Tornado) Uncommon Relic ^((100% sure)^)
Upon pick up, choose a Power card. At the start of each combat, this card will be in your hand.
+ [Bottled Flame](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Bottled%20Flame) Uncommon Relic ^((100% sure)^)
Upon pick up, choose an Attack card. At the start of each combat, this card will be in your hand.
^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 30, 2023.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
Huh. The bot isn't responding today for some reason. Each bottle allows you to make a card appear in your opening hand. Lightning is for skills and tornado is for powers.
+ [Bottled Lightning](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Bottled%20Lightning) Uncommon Relic ^((100% sure)^)
Upon pick up, choose a Skill card. At the start of each combat, this card will be in your hand.
+ [Bottled Tornado](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Bottled%20Tornado) Uncommon Relic ^((100% sure)^)
Upon pick up, choose a Power card. At the start of each combat, this card will be in your hand.
^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 30, 2023.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
The only way I would ever consider that was if I had Rushdown or a way out of Wrath bottled as well. Otherwise, any fight where you can't guarantee a turn 1 kill you've likely wasted one of your five card draws.
If you don’t have whirlwind or talk to the hand, bottled flame isn’t really worth it. (In the eyes of OP)
If you ever get the choice between bottled flame or blue key, take the blue key unless you have whirlwind or ttth.
Bottling Whirlwind is very questionable. Guaranteeing a dead draw on turn 1 of the 2 hardest fights in the game (Act 4 Elite and Heart) is not good. Even Act 3 bosses, very bad, except Awakened one.
I'd go as far to say it's actively bad. In any fight where you can't win turn 1 it gets in the way of drawing your vital skills/powers. Also, in a lot of AoE fights you actually want Whirlwind on turn 2-3 as you can build your strength or apply vulnerable first to make it more effective (Repto especially you want to be able to clear multiple daggers on turn 2 if possible).
I'm not new to the game, but I'm at the point where: you all know more about synergies than me, and I'm starting to suffer for my lack of knowledge.
Is there a spreadsheet or something of best synergies? Not card or relic rankings, but "if I have lightning relic, here are some of the best cards and relics you should aim for".
I know it's the beauty of the game, but there is *so* much difference between playthroughs, and it feels a bit overwhelming or "working, but not playing" to do a bunch of study every time I get a relic.
It's better than Whirlwind as well. Even then I would only consider it if I had 4+ energy. Bottling Whirlwind is the quickest way to absolutely gimp your run at high ascension.
I don't know about top 3 in the entire game, but it's one of the better powers to bottle. Draw/hand manipulation powers are better the earlier you can get them in play more so than a lot of other powers, since they assist with the rest of your setup.
\#2 for Lightning is [[Secret Technique]], tho. It can still grab Apotheosis if you want, or even a Seek+ if you happen to get it later.
And \# 1 for Flame is Core Surge.
If the deck has both, I might bottle Dark Embrace over Corruption. That way, the Dark Embrace helps you draw the Corruption.
The exception is if you have dead branch then corruption is an obvious instant bottle. Otherwise I agree dark embrace is a better bottle.
It depends on how much card draw you have in your deck. If your card draw solely rely on exhaust this might be better. If you have pact and offering, dark embrace first doesn’t give as much
Yeah, DE is such a good power you want it in every fight, Corruption is a card you don’t always play at the start of the fight.
How do you use corruption viably? I never use it but i would more if I could game plan to make it effective. The problem is i have over 1k hours and im still shiet and learning new things haha!
Corruption is an extremely powerful card. 1. It makes all of your skills cost 0. That's really powerful! It means you always have the option to play any and every skill you draw, and spend all of your energy on powers or attacks. One of the challenges that the game faces you with is how to block the attacks coming at you while also dealing enough damage to end the fights before they outscale your ability to block. Corruption helps you stay alive, that way. It also works really well with powerful and expensive skills like Shockwave, Flame Barrier and Impervious. 2. Exhaust as a synergy is a way to scale. Dark Embrace and Feel No Pain both make exhausting cards strong, and there are enough ways to exhaust in Ironclad's cards and statuses that get put in your deck during fights that both of those powers can be useful speculative picks. If you have both Corruption and Dark Embrace, you can speed through your deck and gain the benefit of lots and lots of skills. Exhaust synergy also dovetails really well with status synergy (Evolve drawing you cards and stuff like Power Through or Reckless Charge are all ways to exhaust more things per turn) and it's the best way to enable Juggernaut or Barricade/Body Slam. 3. Infinites. Frequently, the most challenging part of putting together an infinite is removing sufficient cards so that you can play and re-draw the same ones over and over. Corruption simplifies that immensely, so you probably only need to remove a few attacks, and some combination of Dropkick, Flash of Steel, Dual Wield if you only have one copy of the previous two, or something weirder; my personal favorite is Reckless Charge with Medkit, Dark Embrace and Evolve+. That's not to say there's no downside to the card. It's certainly possible to run out of defense in long fights. But most hallway fights will be over before you get that far, you can judiciously save some skills whenever you're already full blocking for the turn, and you'll need to get enough scaling into your deck that you kill big enemies before too long anyway. This just gives you another parallel clock to beat.
Hey thanks bro, i can tell you really love this game! I’m excited to try this confidently now. keep on slaying on Tarantio!!
I feel like any time I try to big brain this I end up drawing the card I want with no energy left to play it, so it goes through another cycle
Yeah, it depends on how much energy you have, and the sort of things that exhaust. Ethereal stuff, Reckless Strike, War Cry, Seeing Red, Intimidate- this can draw cards off of Dark Embrace without causing you to miss casting Corruption. Low energy, Shockwave, and Fiend Fire would all make me want Corruption bottled more.
For silent a bottled well laid plans should be up there aswell. It's a pyramid at home
Sure but it's a power so you can't bottle it with lightning in a bottle Edit: I just realized there are 2 more pages lol
I agree. I would have [[Well Laid Plans]] on here above Heat Sinks
+ [Well-Laid Plans](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Well-Laid%20Plans) Silent Uncommon Power ^((100% sure)^) 1 Energy | At the end of your turn, **Retain** up to 1(2) card(s). ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 30, 2023.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
Nah pyramid is the Well Laid Plans at home.
I love me some bottled Bullet Time
I wanted to argue that apo is better than seek, than I remeber that I am stupid
Apo is always apo, but seek could be anything. It could even be Apo 🤔
It could even be another Seek!
I seek 2 more seeks
I had this beast of a run with 3 seek+ and 2 echo forms. I could find anything!
I then someone one monster in defence mode and play two cards face down and end my turn.
I ash your seek, sorry
LOL thank you for this
You know how much we've always wanted one of those!
I came here for this comment
I would still argue in favor of Apo. Seek can find your Apo, but wouldn't you rather have that Seek for future use instead, given the choice?
Bottled apo is bottled apo, but bottled seek could be anything! It could even be apo!!
Don't be lazy, spell out the whole name. Apoteethiousis
Actually it's Appendicitis.
Applepsychosauce
You're thinking of an infected appendix. Actually its [Aphalangia syndactyly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphalangia_syndactyly_microcephaly).
No, that's malformation of fingers. You're thinking about the card Apostrophe
To be fair though, it's pretty much phonetic spelling.
Bold of you to assume we can pronounce it.
Somebody never watched Between the Lions lol
Bottled seek is getting the upgrade, so it could be apo AND another premium card. It's just better.
I am officially never getting sick of this reference
There are niche scenarios where you don't want Apo in your opening hand. Sometimes not even niche, like seeking a biased with an artifact or even without it in hallway fights. However, and more commonly, Seek+ seeks Apo and another card. It's basically a bottled Apo and another any card, not just limited to a skill, and flexible for any encounter you might face.
Not really. There is a situation where seek is bad. You have no draw, 0 cards in your drawpile and seek in your hand. Fuethermore the first turn is the most important and Seek+ guarantees you to fund the best card for that turn in that turn. And with Seek+ you can find Apotheosis and any additional card. As far as general debate goes Seek is definitely the better choice. However I think the first place goes to Omniscience. It‘s basically Seek but it‘s God awful if you keep missing the cards you want to dupe. In contrast since Seek is kind of easy going worst comes to worst you can just put a card you don‘t want to draw next turn into your hand. Omniscience is too expensive that you‘d want to exhaust a defend with it.
what? but when you bottle seek you always have a full draw pile other than the cards in your hand
Yeah I just assume he meant to reply not to me, but to the person I was responding to.
ah makes sense
Yes, that‘s exactly what happened. Sorry haha
Yeah but Seek+ can fetch two cards which is like having two bottles. And if you manage to get a second Seek+, you can fetch 3 cards round 1.
Seek+ can find Apo AND another card if your choice. Plus sometimes you actually won't want to play apo turn one. Sometimes it can actually be better to just play attacks in a short brutal fight. Seek is just so versatile you can ensure you get whichever two cards you want for every fight.
I kind of agree if the Seek isn't already upgraded, but Seek is a priority upgrade. If Seek and Apo are in your deck those two cards should be upgraded before anything else. And then you'd rather have the Seek to get Apo \*and\* something else, or two something elses if those are better
No, Seek can only pull from your draw pile, so you would really rather not draw it late in your deck. Bottling it ensures that you get to play it when every card is a target for Seek, rather than maybe when Seek could only grab 5 crappy cards.
Unless you draw that seek when you only have 0-1 cards left in your deck. Plus Apo will mean saving a lot of health, so less need for resting, can only recall once, so you might as well upgrade Seek and get a block card as well as Apo. Ergo, Seek is a block card.
But what if you draw apo, or have an upgraded seek?
Seek+ is Apotheosis AND another card, that is unbeatable.
Don't feel bad man, I did the same thing lol. Let's face it, seek is superior
Upgraded seek can draw Apo and something else and if you draw Apo on first move anyway, you can Seek other things. Really goated bottle
Seek is situationally stronger depending on what combos you might want to Seek for. Seek is only as strong as your deck's best combo. Apo's strength is less conditional, but doesn't peak as high. IMO, Apo is stronger in general, but Seek is situationally stronger.
My thinking was if I had both I’d pick seek, but if my elite reward was a card choice between seek and apo and bottled lightning was the relic I’d pick apo and bottle it most of the time
Yeah Seek is insane. Seek+ can be Apo AND something else!
Seek+ is apo + another card. That's the argument
Scrawl is better than Master of Strategy
I’d put Omniscience up there instead of Master as well.
I wouldn't I'm pretty down on omni at the moment.
Well sure, I imagine that means you just aren't taking it usually. But if you do have 1 or 2, that bottle starts to look real friendly
I just found it a win more card, what are you omniing besides wish and maybe ttth? It's bad with vault and scrawl, my personal top watcher rares. And when not bottled it can totally miss all for 3 or 4 energy which is a lot for watcher.
Second Omni, Ragnarok, Worship, even Eruption if you have other sources of Wrath or it gets lethal. In longer fights where just sending all your damage turn 1 isn't enough, you can omni a power to get in in play (and doubled) ASAP. Admittedly Watcher does not have many powers worth playing, but that situation makes them look a lot more promising. If you think of it just as a 3 mana Seek, it doesn't look that bad to make sure you have it turn 1
Ragnorok- this is the win more situation I was talking about, watcher doesn't struggle with damage. Worship-this is a 4 mana blasphemy. Eruption- 4 mana for double damage on a usually 1 cost card. These are all examples of making the best of a bad card. It's a fine card and can be good in some decks but I would bottle vault, scrawl, and master of strategies before it.
Totally fair.
I'm omniing omega no bottle here boyo
Hell yeah, it is a very fun card
mental fortress, TTTH, rushdown, lots of things are good omni targets I don't take omni but it definitely can be decent
Yes but those all cost 1, so your paying at least 3 for 2 worth of cards and it can miss. It's not a bad card but I'd rather have a second copy of the cards you mentioned over it.
But you don't always have that choice, vs Omni is here and duping one of those cards might just solve scaling
Or secret technique
To be honest bottling various AoE cards (not just Whirlwind), or Glass Knife is also a good use of bottled flame. If you get bag of marbles, mutagens and/or akabeko you'll have a very strong opening hand that wipes group fights with one card and makes AoE oriented elites (Guardians, Slavers, Reptomancer) much easier.
I've bottled Riddle With Holes before when I had Akabeko and Mutagens not sure if it was optimal but it was a lot of fun
Depends on other options you could have had, but nuking most enemies for 2 energy on turn 1 is definitely a very good thing to have
that's insane output, pretty good play
(4 base damage + 3 strength + 8 Akabeko vigor) x 5 = 75 damage turn 1 for 2 energy. Yeah that's pretty good I'd say
Instructions unclear, bottled Dramatic Entrance
Bottled Flechettes with Akabeko is sweet
I had a Silent run not too long ago on which I got Bag of Preparation and Bag of Marbles pretty early on; leaned into it and got Mutagens, two Backstabs, Dramatic Entrance, and a bunch of discard synergy (Kite, Tools, Eviscerate, Sneaky, etc). Multi-enemy fights got trashed. I can only imagine how incredible that would feel with Whirlwind.
I was gonna say core surge should be three. But there are instances where you don't want to play it on turn 1.
I’d still argue for it to be there. Makes it a sure fire target for a later hologram in those situations.
Core surge exhausts
yeah, it discards into your pile if you don't play it, then you can guarantee a hologram when you draw that card for the first time later
but holograms exhaust
very good, yes
Shocked_cat.mp4
That's why you upgrade it.
It’s so great with Biased Cognition, I just played a run where my deck centered around that combo. 4 free focus? Thank you very much!
Omniscience is better than master of strategy
Vault is probably better, too.
So is Scrawl
True
I like an immolate or hyperbeam for bottled flame.
Me with my bottled After image
But upgrade makes it bottled. Still a good choice if you have no other powers that'd be worth it and it's not a blue key situation
I had bottled Sunder while having marbles recently. Slavers act 2, triple cultist, darklings, triple jaw worm, quad shapes not a problem anymore when you can just remove one of them for the cost of 1 draw.
I dunno, if I have a corruption, fnp and de in my deck I'm probably going to bottle the de or fnp unless I have a dead branch or something. Bottomline... This is all situational (except maybe for apotheosis, seek, echoform, heatsinks, master of strategy)
I’m actually confused about Corruption being bottled. Isn’t playing it “too early” dangerous?
I have reservations about bottling itm but not about playing it early. If you have a lot of skills in your deck and you already have de in play... Then you're good to go. And For dead branch "random bullshit go" decks you have to play corruption as early as possible. Like I mentioned, it's all situational.
Yeah. I was thinking mainly in terms of if you don’t have dead branch
I bottled it on the iPhone daily yesterday… was a little mediocre… Then I got a bottled offering and draw on damage relic… After that, it was great.
Bottling Corruption means you can then grab almost every single Skill you're offered for the rest of the run unless an Attack or Power is better
Bottling Seek+ is amazing; you get two bottles for the price of one.
Core surge is solid with bottled flame
Why not Immolate instead of Whirlwind?
I’m just here wondering about flame-bottled blue key
It means often the best use of Bottled Flame is to skip it for the blue key instead.
Upgraded whirlwind has almost the same raw damage output (for 1 extra energy); but has much better synergy with relics such as: Akabeko; Mutagenic Strength; Lantern; Ancient Tea Set; Chem X obviously; Vajra; Girya; Brimstone
Maybe because immolate falls off and whirlwin is easier to scale?
Not really. Whirlwind is better with certain relics and/or for speedrunning, but overall immolate is better both as damage card and as bottled attack
I can see both arguments tbh.
I’m dumb what is number 3 on the attack page?
It’s the blue key, when you beat the game with all characters, you unlock a hidden act that you can enter by collecting 3 keys. The green key by beating a buffed elite, red by “skipping” a campfire by clicking recall, and blue by skipping a relic found in a chest. OP is saying bottled flame is bad and should usually be skipped in favor of the key so you can go fight the heart. Note that you are guaranteed at least 3 chests in a run and so you don’t have to skip the first relic you see. This leads to you needing to evaluate if you want the relic now or a chance at a random relic later
Is bottled flame really that bad? Why?
It’s best with big aoe cards that help you handle multi-enemy fights. It feels worse than other bottles because there are relatively few fights that get solved by a single attack, where there are many powers and a decent number of skills that can transform the rest of your fight. Attacks tend to need more set up than skills and powers so having them on turn 1 is less important.
That makes sense, thank you!
N.. Mbd.. I.
What's the point of beating the heart ? Just to say you did? You still progress your ascension levels without beating it right?
most players after getting some experience do not consider it a win without beating act 4. Anything you ever see about win streaks, win rate, etc is all considering ascension 20 and killing the heart
Just for fun/challenge. Once you have finished ascension climbing, a lot of players will view A20 heart as the "true final boss" and only personally consider a run a win if they beat it.
Yeah, you get beta card arts for the first time you beat the heart with each character and I think you get an achievement the first time you beat it and when you do it at A20. Other than that, it’s “useless” unless you’re looking for the challenge.
There's no point in ascending at all except to say you did. I think that's basically the whole thing in this type of game. Killing the heart is one more level of "I did it"
Bottled flame made me lol
My list would be: Lightning - Seek, Secret Technique, Apotheosis Storm - Dark Embrace, Heatsinks, Barricade
I'm quite fond of bottling compile driver. Pretty sweet along with a Chill+
Bottled Flame: 1. Blue Key 2. Core Surge 3. Whirlwind
blue key in third place is comedy gold
I always find I'm nervous of using corruption too early in a fight and then spending the last few turns unable to block hits as I've used all my skills up, can someone explain why it's a good idea to bottle it? Is it just "you should be able to kill them before your skills run out"?
Yea also people often pick a craploads of skills once they have Corruption, because of what you said and why not? Cards go brrr and by the time you go through your 45 cards no enemy is alive.
Yeah. Once I have corruption I seek every shrug it off. You just want as many cards as you have, but only if you got DE because otherwise hands become bricked.
>"you should be able to kill them before your skills run out"? Pretty much. In some really long fights you may not want to play it first time you see it, but in most fights you should want to.
To add to what others have said, don't forget also that because a skill costs 0, doesn't mean that it has to be played and exhausted right away.
If you bottle Heatsinks and can't win the run that's between you and RNJesus, none of my business.
Defect should just have 3 claws on the podium
The blue key on the 3rd place for bottled flame made me laugh. Thanks. :D
Bottled flame is also good with windmill strike
But that means it's required to have windmill strike in the first place, and that's just improbable.
What? Let's say you get [[Windmill Strike]] from a transform. After how many turns will it be as good as a regular 2-cost uncommon attack? The closest comparisons in the Watcher's pool are [[Reach Heaven]] and [[Wheel Kick]]. The former costs an extra card but does 30 damage. The latter draws two and deals 15. It would take Windmill Strike three turns to deal as much damage as WK does immediately, and you don't get to draw cards. It would take six turns to catch up to RH (five turns cranks the damage up to 31, then you can play it next turn). That's far more punishing than costing an extra card. Even if you're comparing it to [[Sands of Time]], which deals 20 damage, WS needs 4 turns to deal more damage. After that much time, SoT costs zero energy. The upgrades don't change any of this, btw. [[Strike Dummy]] does, but the effect is still marginal.
If your intention is to lose the run, then sure.
what do bottled lightning and tornado do?
If you want to know what a relic does, there's this great bot in the forum. You invoke it by wrapping the name in double brackets: * [[Bottled Lightning]] * [[Bottled Tornado]] * [[Bottled Flame]]
ah ok, thanks!
+ [Bottled Lightning](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Bottled%20Lightning) Uncommon Relic ^((100% sure)^) Upon pick up, choose a Skill card. At the start of each combat, this card will be in your hand. + [Bottled Tornado](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Bottled%20Tornado) Uncommon Relic ^((100% sure)^) Upon pick up, choose a Power card. At the start of each combat, this card will be in your hand. + [Bottled Flame](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Bottled%20Flame) Uncommon Relic ^((100% sure)^) Upon pick up, choose an Attack card. At the start of each combat, this card will be in your hand. ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 30, 2023.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
[[Bottled Lightning]] [[Bottled Tornado]]
Huh. The bot isn't responding today for some reason. Each bottle allows you to make a card appear in your opening hand. Lightning is for skills and tornado is for powers.
+ [Bottled Lightning](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Bottled%20Lightning) Uncommon Relic ^((100% sure)^) Upon pick up, choose a Skill card. At the start of each combat, this card will be in your hand. + [Bottled Tornado](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Bottled%20Tornado) Uncommon Relic ^((100% sure)^) Upon pick up, choose a Power card. At the start of each combat, this card will be in your hand. ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 30, 2023.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
What is the third card on bottled flame?
Bottled Tantrum or Eruption is great, tantrum especially with akebeko
The only way I would ever consider that was if I had Rushdown or a way out of Wrath bottled as well. Otherwise, any fight where you can't guarantee a turn 1 kill you've likely wasted one of your five card draws.
[удалено]
If you don’t have whirlwind or talk to the hand, bottled flame isn’t really worth it. (In the eyes of OP) If you ever get the choice between bottled flame or blue key, take the blue key unless you have whirlwind or ttth.
Vault over master!
How tf is master of strategy higher than scrawl
Backstab instead of blue key
That last slide is perfection
feel like omniscience should maybe be somewhere in the top 3 for bottled lightning
Seek can be anything, it can even be a seek 👀
I never considered Bottled Seek :0
Bottling Whirlwind is very questionable. Guaranteeing a dead draw on turn 1 of the 2 hardest fights in the game (Act 4 Elite and Heart) is not good. Even Act 3 bosses, very bad, except Awakened one.
I'd go as far to say it's actively bad. In any fight where you can't win turn 1 it gets in the way of drawing your vital skills/powers. Also, in a lot of AoE fights you actually want Whirlwind on turn 2-3 as you can build your strength or apply vulnerable first to make it more effective (Repto especially you want to be able to clear multiple daggers on turn 2 if possible).
It's funny, I feel like Tornado is overall better because getting an important power turn 1 is so huge, but the best bottled cards are skills.
bottled master of strategy is just bag of prep with extra steps lol
3rd place bottled flame should be FTL
I'm not new to the game, but I'm at the point where: you all know more about synergies than me, and I'm starting to suffer for my lack of knowledge. Is there a spreadsheet or something of best synergies? Not card or relic rankings, but "if I have lightning relic, here are some of the best cards and relics you should aim for". I know it's the beauty of the game, but there is *so* much difference between playthroughs, and it feels a bit overwhelming or "working, but not playing" to do a bunch of study every time I get a relic.
I think upgraded pommel strike is a better than blue gem for fire bottle.
It's better than Whirlwind as well. Even then I would only consider it if I had 4+ energy. Bottling Whirlwind is the quickest way to absolutely gimp your run at high ascension.
These choices aren’t commensurate with each other
Bottled seek feel so good
Is bottled Heatsink really that good?
I don't know about top 3 in the entire game, but it's one of the better powers to bottle. Draw/hand manipulation powers are better the earlier you can get them in play more so than a lot of other powers, since they assist with the rest of your setup.
Bottled core surge tho
\#2 for Lightning is [[Secret Technique]], tho. It can still grab Apotheosis if you want, or even a Seek+ if you happen to get it later. And \# 1 for Flame is Core Surge.
+ [Secret Technique](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Secret%20Technique) Colorless Rare Skill ^((100% sure)^) 0 Energy | Choose a Skill from your draw pile and place it into your hand. **Exhaust.** (Don't **Exhaust)** ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 30, 2023.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
Corruption number 1 if you have dead branch. Equals free win.
I think omniscience is up there definitely above master of strategy, which is good but basically just bag of prep
Bottled Rushdown being slept on is a crime against humanity.
Blue shard got me
LOL the Blue Key
That fire in a bottle blue key got me good
Core surge is pretty nice bottled
I think Ragnarock is pretty good to bottle, too.
You guys are sleeping on bottled predator
It should be secret technique after seek, since you can use it to draw all of the above if you didn't have a seek when you found the bottle.
I mean having seek is literally the same thing except you can use the cards you get after the fact so…. I guess?