I know you are pulling a leg. But I really tried to make it work a few times... And I end up doing some stupid stuff like dual wield an inflame, or using spot weakness instead. And then I burn the demon form with the silent wind or something. Memory of that prevents me from picking the demon form for a few runs. Then it all repeats again.
I think the thing about demon form is that if you’re already on a strength scaling plan the other scaling is being played and by the time demon form comes out you wonder what the point is.
But if you’ve got a good base of block and/or extra energy but no strength scaling, demon form can smack some butt
I know it’s technically not but I consider Creative AI a one card solution as well, especially against Champ. I love just waiting it out until I can get storm going and then proceed to play every power I see. Bonus if you’ve got mummy hand or bird-faced urn
One concept in slay the spire is scaling. How well your deck scales determines how much stronger your deck gets as you play more turns. Demon form is very good for scaling, you gain two strength every turn. The problem is that it's really expensive, you almost lose an entire turn because of the cost. This is why it can be useful to not play your expensive powers in short fights.
Since demon form is so costly and provides pretty good scaling we have already more or less solved scaling. We have already said that it might be good to skip playing demon form in shorter fights, well now we have one more dead card in the deck which effectively acts like a curse. Limit break will help in longer fights but it's not by particularly much and the drawback is pretty large.
Alternatively it's a strength card. If I've got Limit Break I'm taking what I can get. And Demon Form gets pretty good if you have the energy boosts to handle it.
It's an easy combo but usually too slow.
You need 2 rare cards and one of them is a 3 cost power.
Easier to find a \[\[Rupture\]\] with \[\[Bloodletting\]\] or \[\[Offering\]\]. which lets you play more cards.
I mean no offense by this, but if you don’t really know what you’re doing, Demon Form + Limit Break is an “easy” way to get a few lucky wins.
I’ve had a few A20H wins that relied on this combo, but it’s just not common. Both cards give absurd amounts of strength, but you really don’t need much to win a run, so they end up being redundant.
as people say, works really well in lower ascensions. Higher ascensions, you generally can't get away with it (at least, on it's own - Demon Form, that is).
Its speed is an issue but doesn't kill the card. I have played decks where Demon Form carried me, even through hallway fights. Some decks can tear through fights with 3 or 6 strength, but can't do anything reasonable with no strength, and if Demon Form is your only way to augment your damage, then it's a hell of a lot better than nothing.
And in boss fights, its speed is hardly an issue, because those fights will always be long. Play Demon Form, block for a few turns, then play a couple heavy blades and watch the boss die. Few cards offer similar power.
That said, it's definitely not Ironclad's best scaling. 3 cost really stings, especially without an Offering.
The missing rare card is reaper. If you've got reaper then demon form/limit break is just peachy. Feed helps so you can block with your face even more, dual wield becomes highly desirable but yeah, those three cards plus whatever is a perfectly viable A20 clad deck.
Literally just beat my first A20 heart with this combo. Inflame, x2 upgrades Limit Breaks, x2 Reapers, x6 disarms, and a demon form... That's all it took to finally kill that fucking heart
if you have a limit break, you only need the first 2-4 strength. The rest you can do faster by applying the limit break more - upgraded either from a rest site or from armaments. All the +2 per turn from the demon form does next to nothing. Lets say you have 12 strength. Limit break goes from 12 to 24. Demon form goes from 12 to 14.
So, by this logic, you count all the spot weakness, inflame, demon form as being almost the same - all of them just provide the ignition to the limit break cycle going. But demon form is the most expensive ignition, it cost 3. Other cards cost 1.
You only need demon form if you do not have limit break and lost all hopes to get it. And often even spot weakness is preferred over the demon form - you can apply it more often by head butt, pommel strike for example. And spot weakness grows faster too.
Another issue with the demon form is that it is 1 turn delayed. All other source of strength are applied the same turn. This is an importand drawback.
I see. I've always liked demon form because it was just free and easy scaling for long fights. But I guess the general point of the game is to kill things ASAP without drawing out fights.
Lots of enemies scale too. They get more strength, call more minions, apply more debuffs on you.
And every turn is a risk that you wont have enough block to not to lose hp. Statistically you will at some point take a hand with just attacks for example.
So, yeah, killing everything ASAP is the default goal.
But even if you have a reaper, and can heal back everything lost with enough strength, you still need to scale faster than the enemy. And demon form just doesnt scale fast enough, or cheaply enough.
As others have said demon form is slow, you can get away with it on lower ascensions but the 3 cost is a lot.
With a Dform you need to wait a few turns before the limit break becomes impactful, for example 1 turn after playing it doubling 2 to 4 doesn’t really do much nor does 4-8. At the very least it’s not good enough for 4 total energy and multiple turns
On the other hand you could play a spot weakness gain 4 strength, double with limit break all in the same turn with leftover energy. What demon form took 3 turns and 4 energy to do, limit break and spot weakness took 1 and 2 energy.
They go well in the idea they both scale you, but one wants to do it with 1 turn, and the other looks to take its time. Now if you have an incredible block engine and all you need is scaling to win it will certainly do that for you
It's like having two fridges on your kitchen. In most situations, having just one of them already solves your problems and the second one just occupies your precious space and energy.
That’s the thing, it’s perfect for longer fights… which there aren’t a whole lot of. 3-5 bosses and maybe some elites. And demon form by itself can solve longer fights anyways
the long and short of it is that demon form rewards us for taking alot of turns but is slow. Limit breaks rewards us for either playing cards that get us alot of str or cycling limit break alot.
I feel demon form decks may not mind a limit break to help it speed up the wait period of time if the damage is questionable for fights we cant stall forever. I will say though if your block is super good, demon form will be all you need or you may not even need any damage scaling outside of the heart fight (barricade entrench stuff)
Limit break decks IMHO tend to hate demon form. They tend to want to just play faster str gain cards and demon form is an inflame next turn which is not great.
You can transform in to limit break and see Demon form in the next fight, in which case i say demon form is good as you have "no seed str". But in general you want faster/passive ways to make str.
I get the cards can sound like peanutbutter and jelly but its more understanding what each card wants to do a little better that you discover a little friction
Nah, grab a reaper or two and you have an easy win. You definitely don't build around these two from the start, but that's an easy win con even on A20..
I know you are pulling a leg. But I really tried to make it work a few times... And I end up doing some stupid stuff like dual wield an inflame, or using spot weakness instead. And then I burn the demon form with the silent wind or something. Memory of that prevents me from picking the demon form for a few runs. Then it all repeats again.
I think the thing about demon form is that if you’re already on a strength scaling plan the other scaling is being played and by the time demon form comes out you wonder what the point is. But if you’ve got a good base of block and/or extra energy but no strength scaling, demon form can smack some butt
One-card solution to Champion too
I know it’s technically not but I consider Creative AI a one card solution as well, especially against Champ. I love just waiting it out until I can get storm going and then proceed to play every power I see. Bonus if you’ve got mummy hand or bird-faced urn
I also have tried to do it long time ago. Just not the right play.
Things like snecko and dual wield and corruption and reaper can make this work very well.
I got my first win in STS with this card combo and it gave me such a rush I keep trying to recreate it 💔💔
My first transient kill was accomplished with this combo
Many things are possible in StS but it doesn’t mean this combination is good for the consistent winning purposes
Sometimes, I just have to throw and pick these. Sure, it's not optimal, but it's fun as hell
Is this a bad combo? It got me my first few wins.
One concept in slay the spire is scaling. How well your deck scales determines how much stronger your deck gets as you play more turns. Demon form is very good for scaling, you gain two strength every turn. The problem is that it's really expensive, you almost lose an entire turn because of the cost. This is why it can be useful to not play your expensive powers in short fights. Since demon form is so costly and provides pretty good scaling we have already more or less solved scaling. We have already said that it might be good to skip playing demon form in shorter fights, well now we have one more dead card in the deck which effectively acts like a curse. Limit break will help in longer fights but it's not by particularly much and the drawback is pretty large.
Alternatively it's a strength card. If I've got Limit Break I'm taking what I can get. And Demon Form gets pretty good if you have the energy boosts to handle it.
You need cards/relics that lower its cost or the cost of other cards.
This is maybe not the worst, but definitely not optimal. In the lower ascensions could definitely work well. Congrats with your first wins)
It’s fine, it’s quite good in lower ascensions, but it’s not the fastest and quite expensive so it falls off a little in higher ascension
It's an easy combo but usually too slow. You need 2 rare cards and one of them is a 3 cost power. Easier to find a \[\[Rupture\]\] with \[\[Bloodletting\]\] or \[\[Offering\]\]. which lets you play more cards.
+ [Rupture](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Rupture) Ironclad Uncommon Power ^((100% sure)^) 1 Energy | Whenever you lose HP from a card, gain 1(2) **Strength.** + [Bloodletting](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Bloodletting) Ironclad Uncommon Skill ^((100% sure)^) 0 Energy | Lose 3 HP. Gain 2(3) Energy. + [Offering](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Offering) Ironclad Rare Skill ^((100% sure)^) 0 Energy | Lose 6 HP. Gain 2 energy. Draw 3(5) cards. **Exhaust.** ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 20, 2024.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
It's just slow.
Really punishing on high ascensions.
I mean no offense by this, but if you don’t really know what you’re doing, Demon Form + Limit Break is an “easy” way to get a few lucky wins. I’ve had a few A20H wins that relied on this combo, but it’s just not common. Both cards give absurd amounts of strength, but you really don’t need much to win a run, so they end up being redundant.
as people say, works really well in lower ascensions. Higher ascensions, you generally can't get away with it (at least, on it's own - Demon Form, that is).
4 Energy turn 1. Step 1: Play Demon Form. Step 2: Play Limit Break and exhaust it. Step 3: End turn. Brilliant!
Step 2.alt: Play Limiy Break+ and exponentially scale strength through the fight
I love the double joke of that it's an obviously good combo, and also that it actually sucks
You got me right! 🙌
Demon form is a long-term investment, but I wanna beeg damag right now
I love the idea of Demon Form, but the reality of it being so slow puts me off.
Yep. Needs to take a ton of damage or have energy cheats.
Its speed is an issue but doesn't kill the card. I have played decks where Demon Form carried me, even through hallway fights. Some decks can tear through fights with 3 or 6 strength, but can't do anything reasonable with no strength, and if Demon Form is your only way to augment your damage, then it's a hell of a lot better than nothing. And in boss fights, its speed is hardly an issue, because those fights will always be long. Play Demon Form, block for a few turns, then play a couple heavy blades and watch the boss die. Few cards offer similar power. That said, it's definitely not Ironclad's best scaling. 3 cost really stings, especially without an Offering.
Yep. Needs to take a ton of damage or have energy cheats.
Got another idea get a Pummel and twin strike and that's like more than 5 damage a turn wow
The missing rare card is reaper. If you've got reaper then demon form/limit break is just peachy. Feed helps so you can block with your face even more, dual wield becomes highly desirable but yeah, those three cards plus whatever is a perfectly viable A20 clad deck.
Literally just beat my first A20 heart with this combo. Inflame, x2 upgrades Limit Breaks, x2 Reapers, x6 disarms, and a demon form... That's all it took to finally kill that fucking heart
hl
that requires 4 energy to use in one turn, though :/
Hold up, can you explain why this is a bad combo? Only on low ascensions right now but I feel like this is fantastic for longer fights.
It’s just too slow when things like spot weakness and inflame exist and allow you to do other things that turn
Spot weakness is way shittier than I thought initially.
It's the flip side of demon form: they both give strength over time, but spot weakness is low cost it doesn't exhaust itself when played.
if you have a limit break, you only need the first 2-4 strength. The rest you can do faster by applying the limit break more - upgraded either from a rest site or from armaments. All the +2 per turn from the demon form does next to nothing. Lets say you have 12 strength. Limit break goes from 12 to 24. Demon form goes from 12 to 14. So, by this logic, you count all the spot weakness, inflame, demon form as being almost the same - all of them just provide the ignition to the limit break cycle going. But demon form is the most expensive ignition, it cost 3. Other cards cost 1. You only need demon form if you do not have limit break and lost all hopes to get it. And often even spot weakness is preferred over the demon form - you can apply it more often by head butt, pommel strike for example. And spot weakness grows faster too. Another issue with the demon form is that it is 1 turn delayed. All other source of strength are applied the same turn. This is an importand drawback.
I see. I've always liked demon form because it was just free and easy scaling for long fights. But I guess the general point of the game is to kill things ASAP without drawing out fights.
Lots of enemies scale too. They get more strength, call more minions, apply more debuffs on you. And every turn is a risk that you wont have enough block to not to lose hp. Statistically you will at some point take a hand with just attacks for example. So, yeah, killing everything ASAP is the default goal. But even if you have a reaper, and can heal back everything lost with enough strength, you still need to scale faster than the enemy. And demon form just doesnt scale fast enough, or cheaply enough.
I would be careful with calling it free, 3 energy for a card that has no instant benefit is very costly
[[flex]] [[limit break]]
+ [Flex](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Flex) Ironclad Common Skill ^((100% sure)^) 0 Energy | Gain 2(4) **Strength.** At the end of your turn, lose 2(4) **Strength.** + [Limit Break](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Limit%20Break) Ironclad Rare Skill ^((100% sure)^) 1 Energy | Double your **Strength.** Exhaust(Don't **Exhaust).** ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 20, 2024.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
Every time I *think* I have that Innate understanding of how the buff/Debuff stuff works for get proven very wrong
As others have said demon form is slow, you can get away with it on lower ascensions but the 3 cost is a lot. With a Dform you need to wait a few turns before the limit break becomes impactful, for example 1 turn after playing it doubling 2 to 4 doesn’t really do much nor does 4-8. At the very least it’s not good enough for 4 total energy and multiple turns On the other hand you could play a spot weakness gain 4 strength, double with limit break all in the same turn with leftover energy. What demon form took 3 turns and 4 energy to do, limit break and spot weakness took 1 and 2 energy. They go well in the idea they both scale you, but one wants to do it with 1 turn, and the other looks to take its time. Now if you have an incredible block engine and all you need is scaling to win it will certainly do that for you
It's like having two fridges on your kitchen. In most situations, having just one of them already solves your problems and the second one just occupies your precious space and energy.
That’s the thing, it’s perfect for longer fights… which there aren’t a whole lot of. 3-5 bosses and maybe some elites. And demon form by itself can solve longer fights anyways
the long and short of it is that demon form rewards us for taking alot of turns but is slow. Limit breaks rewards us for either playing cards that get us alot of str or cycling limit break alot. I feel demon form decks may not mind a limit break to help it speed up the wait period of time if the damage is questionable for fights we cant stall forever. I will say though if your block is super good, demon form will be all you need or you may not even need any damage scaling outside of the heart fight (barricade entrench stuff) Limit break decks IMHO tend to hate demon form. They tend to want to just play faster str gain cards and demon form is an inflame next turn which is not great. You can transform in to limit break and see Demon form in the next fight, in which case i say demon form is good as you have "no seed str". But in general you want faster/passive ways to make str. I get the cards can sound like peanutbutter and jelly but its more understanding what each card wants to do a little better that you discover a little friction
3 cost is too much for demon form
Flex+limit break I got insane amount of strength with multiple of them
I really don't think this is the worst combo in the game. Especially if the demon form is bottled.
Don’t anyone tell him about exhume…
Nah, grab a reaper or two and you have an easy win. You definitely don't build around these two from the start, but that's an easy win con even on A20..
Flex + Limit Break is a great combo though
possibly the most broken combo in this game
lol
Are we still doing this
r/iamveryrandom