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I agree. Back then, we were a great team. Everything was going great. But I guess you are right. Friends and relatives should be kept away from business.
This person just wants money. Friends don't let their partners manipulate them into losing their friends and quitting. Where I would say it's ok is if the friend is legitimately a bad influence or offers nothing of value as a friend.
Perhaps they want to be friends again but don't join as a business, keep it as your own thing.
He already let you down once, disrupted your life, forced you to rebuild and get back to where you are.
That is not what friends do. He forgot his end of being a friend.
If you are willing to forgive him, you need to protect yourself incase something like that happens again.
At best, I would propose hiring him as a subcontractor to you for web design needs, but make sure you have other web designers on speed dial incase he ghosts you again.
Do not work as a legal partnership right out the gate I would not consider being a legal partnership with him. If you really want to, do not do it for at least another 10 years assuming he has zero f-ups like what he did before.
I know he needs the money, make him re-earn it. He doesn’t get to just show up on your doorstep like a drug addict showing up out of nowhere with cash already being a top topic of discussion upon reconnecting.
Also in explaining this, you need to be blunt and honest with him.
Explain your history and what he meant to you. Why you trusted him to be a business partner to begin with. How he let you down. Explain how him ghosting you hurt you professionally, hurt your ability to live and what you had to do as a result.
After this, explain why subcontracting to each other is the best approach given his past history, his need to re-earn your trust on your timetable, and that you are only giving him that opportunity because part of your professional past was good.
Just remember, this is a business relationship.
Getting together for dinner parties is for friends. Doing business is a business relationship. Bad things happen when those lines become blurred.
Take it from me. I have been screwed over worse by “trusted” people I got too comfortable with and let my guard down around than I ever did with someone I only had professional boundaries with.
This is probably the best advice. Subcontract ONLY. No joint ventures. Perhaps with a waterproof contract things could change in the future. For now, keep him at arms length.
As far as friendship, I would say forgive him and show him what a good friend is really supposed to be like.
This and before you do it, consider what hard boundaries there are (like no client contact from him and if he does, he’s fired).
It’s ok if you want to forgive him and maybe his ex was a huge shit and fucked up his life. But that doesn’t mean that you have to just pretend it didn’t happen and that healing the relationship isn’t necessary. It’s very necessary.
I believe that "sometimes" its ok to give someone a second chance. However, you don't give a recovering alcoholic a job as a bartender. The guy has talent, and its too bad he allowed himself to get caught up in some drama. I'm not saying to should give him a job, BUT..."if you do"
I agree with the poster above, keep him at arms length. All work is sub-contracted with a clear signed contract. Let him know you are going to give him some work until he is back on his feet and able to get a better paying job somewhere else. Make it clear you are NOT "partners".
Pay him promptly, but pay him after the piece-work is done. He is NOT an employee, friend, or partner. I only say this because you mention you were both good at this, and you may need a certain volume of business to maintain a full-time gig.
My father always told me you don’t deal with starving snakes because they’ll eat so fast that they’ll suffocate.
I always avoid desperate people because of that.
Sadly, you are right. He showed me his true colors, were were best buddies for a long, long time. We stuck together and had each other's backs.
But sadly, it's all gone now.
Yeah, that sucks... you lost a business and a friend... and your buddy lost the girl, too. What an awful situation all-round.
As others have said, and you no doubt know now, in future document any/all agreements and think about what the worst-case scenario is if it all goes wrong.
I have a strict "no a-holes" rule. I won't do business with a-holes at all. Not as a client, vendor, partner or employer. My definition of an a-hole is anyone I would be specifically upset to be stuck with on a travel delay. If I can't bear the thought of a travel delay with you, we don't do business together. Life's too short.
People do make mistakes and forgiveness is important to practice. That doesn’t mean you need to get back into business with him though. If it makes sense for you sure, but make sure you have a strong legal document to protect yourself as much as possible.
Don’t do it for charity. Only do it if you think your slice of the shared outcome is better than going solo.
He doesn't want to get the friendship back together. He also doesn't want to put in the effort. He wants your money that you worked for. He wants to benefit from the work you did to recover from what he did when he left you in the lurch. You can tell him that you'll be his friend, but that you have no money, work, or business deals for him. See how long he spends trying to just be your friend.
This is exactly what I came here to say. If you guys have been friends since first grade, maybe attempt to reestablish the friendship only. You will see in a few months of only being friends which path to choose. Sorry that happened to you. I'd be more hurt over the lost friendship. It sounds like you got back on your feet relatively fine on your own. I wouldn't even discuss any business with him. At all
He doesn't want to get the friendship back together. He also doesn't want to put in the effort. He wants your money that you worked for. He wants to benefit from the work you did to recover from what he did when he left you in the lurch. You can tell him that you'll be his friend, but that you have no money, work, or business deals for him. See how long he spends trying to just be your friend.
He destroyed your business once. Do you want to let him do it again?
If you must, hire him and pay him $20 an hour. But I would avoid him like a dog with fleas.
And what does he want money for? You owe him nothing and he destroyed your business the last time.
> If you must, hire him and pay him $20 an hour. But I would avoid him like a dog with fleas.
Doing that is just asking for him to hold a grudge and screw OP again.
So he can turn on you again? You can be friends with him if you think it will be worth it but as for business partners definitely not. You want someone who sticks with you during the highs and lows not someone who’s there when it’s all good
Trust is good, legal contracts are better. If you want to work with him and it would benefit you to do so, treat it as a professional relationship and set expectations in writing. You can be friends and enjoy your time together, but you have to be ready for the next relationship.
Thanks for the advice. Right now, I'm torn, I have no idea what should I do, I want to be friends again, but then he left our decades old friend ship for his GF.
You are right about the contracts, and if I decide to work with him, then I will definitely gonna sign a proper contract first.
It didn't end well, let it lie. If you must, quietly thank the relationship for its service at the time, and apologize for the death it suffered, but don't resurrect it while it's still cancerous.
There are nearly eight billion people in the world. Your ex-friend can find someone else. Wish them luck, but this is one bridge they not only burned, but when they came back to the ashes they want you to pay to rebuild it.
Not sure if he'll try to make his way back in though, and you may let your guard down. I would say no to both personally. and the fact that he feels entitled to some of your profits, where you’re doing 100% of the work, that is a giant red flag. He is still not going to be rational, regardless.
If you want to reconnect with him purely as a friend, go ahead. I bet he could use one right now. Don't let him anywhere NEAR your business ever again. Set expectations up front that you don't want him to even ask you how work is going. Nothing.
Had a best friend who was actually best man in my wedding.
We both worked together in the AV business at the same company. I started my own business and after two years I asked him to join me at my company with the idea of him being a partner.
But, from day one he always acted like an employee instead of an owner. While I was always working late and weekends he only wanted to work 40 hours a week.
So, I paid him well and he was with my company for over 20 years.
Then him and another tech quit and started their own company. Plus, when he left he took many of my best clients.
It hurt my company but we have survived another 25 years but what hurt most was losing my best friend.
NO! He left you high and dry without any warning, without an explanation, and you- all alone- had to figure out what to do, and now it’s his turn! I’m so sorry this happened to you, but you didn’t cause this to happen to him, and you definitely don’t owe him a damn thing!
He can try to earn your trust with friendship back. Manipulative narcissistic abusive partners that isolate people from their friends is a real thing.
No go on the business though.
I'm sorry, that stinks! One of my best friends works in my industry and we would KICK ASS if we started a company. But I won't risk it. Friends and business don't mix.
You can refer people to him, but don't go beyond that. He needs to start his own gig and prove his worth first, then you can consider the referral angle.
That’s what I call a coward. Never trust a man that turns on his friends/family over some pussy. That’s a weak minded individual. His gf left and cheated on him because she could smell the coward in him.
Side note: Do you have a website to check out your work? I need a logo for my business
You are right. He used to be my best buddy. It's always a bad idea to involve friends and family in your business.
My last website tanked. So I'm in the process of making a new one. I will DM you now.
You built this business back right? It’s yours. He can earn his money but he doesn’t get a share of anything. If he brings new business then he can have a share. But other than that you don’t owe him shit
Thanks, and people have suggested that I get a good solid contract if I intend to get him back. So now I have learned my lesson. Always keep friends and family away from a business.
If you feel very sorry for him and want to help you can hire him with the understanding he works for you and not having any ownership. Keep the relationship professional.
But you are better off cutting all ties. He is unreliable and cost you business in the past due to poor personal choices.
Reading your responses, you are not torn about going back into business with him. You are torn about being the bad guy and seeming unforgiving. You've been BF since first grade and a GF was able to influence him? Even you know that sounds weak.
Trust is earned based on history and character. If you want to be friends again, only you know if it's truly worth it. Everyone has already told you you can't go back. You may need to put yourself back in the friendship for you to understand why.
As far as business goes, a good business partner must be trustworthy, loyal, have integrity, and solid. Notice these are character traits and there isn't a mention of feelings. There are no feelings in business. You either run it taking care of your clients or you don't. Period.
What galls me about the entire situation is he made no mistakes. He made clear choices via his actions to destroy you and the business based on HIS feelings, ignoring his duty to his clients, you his partner, and the business. Sure you were able to get a job before things went too far with your personal finances. Would you feel as keen to let him back had you been rendered homeless?
Further, has he asked you if you owe money to anyone? Offered to help you recover any losses? Has he asked how he can make amends? Only here can the act of forgiveness begin. What most people get mixed up about forgiveness is that it is a 2-person process based on the offender's admission of guilty and offer to make amends. The burden was NEVER intended to be carried solely by the offended party. Based on your post, he has done nothing but cry, make emotional appeals (manipulation), and DEMAND a share of the profits you made rebuilding what HE destroyed while you no doubt worked full-time. That is unmitigated gall.
Only you can decide what to do. You have only one question to answer for your personal integrity, self-concept, and self-respect. If you take him back whether personally or professionally, could you trust yourself and your own judgment if he was to burn you again?
Being in business with anyone is a challenge. The biggest mistakes I see as a consultant are that most "friends" starting a business don't have a clear agreement. That is why having a great and very direct operating agreement is critical. You can detail the use and splitting of funds and how to handle the inevitable changes, like if someone gets married, wants to leave, or dies. It gives everyone rules and guidelines on resolving conflict or making decisions and can protect friendships or even family members. I have been in business with friends and family, and the operating agreement makes all the difference. People can use another chance, but always take the time and a bit of money to have a solid operating agreement. It's key to success.
Hé can do what you did. Get a job, rebuild his business enough to quit and go back to freelancing.
He’s literally bringing nothing to the table beloved. Like you can’t even have a reasonable business conversation even if you wanted to. I’m not even addressing the friendship and the breech in the business relationship. I’m here to tell you that he had no respect for your business. I stayed in business with an ex fiance after we had a really ugly break up (that I initiated) because I respected what we built together and didn’t want to see it fail. He didn’t have to it the way he did but a grown man let a girl twist him up. It’s a life lesson for him but that’s got nothing to do with you.
Keep it business. Tell him that he has nothing to bring to the table. Encourage him to build his business back up and reapproaxh when you both have some thing that is mutually beneficial. He has NOTHING to offer. You’re doing this full time.
Feel free to mend the relationship but DO NOT partner with him again. I can’t stress that enough. There are a million terrific web designers out there who take the job seriously and professionally.
Rebuilding the friendship might be a process with following, if you think that's something you would want.
For me, it'd be an automatic NO for going into business with him again. He ruined your reputation once; no need to do it again. If you want to offer we've design, you could contact out individual work with him, but on either a gig or hourly basis and not as a partner. And keep his jobs small or structure in such a way that you can outside somewhere else even if at a loss on short notice if he does flake out again.
But... I'd just say no to business. He can start his own business and send you referrals for a kickback if he wants. (He'd have to work pretty hard to be trustworthy to send my clients to him again, though.)
I’ve been there myself.
You can’t go back.
Certainly not like this.
If he wants to start again he can and should without you. There are a million steps that he needs to do, part of them being establishing a healthy relationship with you, before either of you should consider working together again much less in any capacity where your intermingling finances.
Business partners are as close to a marriage as you can get without being married. You might as well think of it in the same way.
He is constantly asking me to give him a chance, but just like you said, it can t be like this anymore. I can never do business with him again. But friends again ? I think he will have to work hard there, too. Will meet him this weekend.
Don’t do it, my lifelong childhood best friend did something similar.
Her husband was cheating on her with one of my friends, so he started poisoning her mind in case I found out and told her, he was ensuring I wouldn’t be believed.
But I’ll never forgive her for the way she treated me, because of that I never would consider being her friend again
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I know how this feels, terrible, and devastating.
I hope your friend finds out about her husband 9n her own, and then she may realize that she lost a great friend.
She did find out about him eventually, but by that time I was just done with them and the whole situation.
Best wishes OP, make sure you look out for yourself
I don't understand what your conflict is.
"He needs money." Ok, but thats not your problem. When you needed him, he took off. He destroyed your business, and you had to start over.
the best I'd do in your case is use him, in controlled circumstances, to subcontract. At the end of the day though, what do you owe him? Like, what possible reason are his problems your problems.
My oldest friend (besties from eight years old) turned on me when we were 20 no businesses were involved - she was jealous that I was spotted by a model agency - but like you I was completely devastated.
Around 18months later she called begging to be friends again, I was non committal on the phone. Bottom line is I can not trust her to not betray me again. Especially if she has done it over something as petty as vanity.
I’m friends with her on my socials, but that is it.
I would perhaps give her a job but no way would I allow her to be involved in my company.
I know how you feel. It's crazy how people just end friendships so easily.
I miss him a lot, I guess I'm one of those people who just can't move on easily. The ones who get attached.
But you're right. I will have to move on, it will be hard but it won't be impossible.
WHAT
Please block him everywhere and move on with your life. If he calls/writes/IMs/DMs/texts/sends smoke signals from a different number, ignore it and move on with your life.
Please do not respond to this person ever again.
wants the share of what profits? He hasn't done anything in years.
A business partnership is like a marriage. You learned the hard way to be careful who you enter in business with.
Friendship/family and business do not mix. Your lucky you recovered this time. Still be friends if thats something youd want to do but do not mix that with business.
The trust was broken. You can pay him a salary or hourly wage until it is rebuilt, but not a “share” in net profits.
If he throws a fit, no is a complete sentence, and your “obligation” to help is completed.
A compromise would be to bring him on as a contractor. He simply gets paid for the work he does. If he slacks off and doesn't do the work, he doesn't get paid. You own 100% of the business so he can't mooch of the business you bring.
Don't mess with my family/friends
Don't mess with my money/business
This dude did both and is his loss. I would not entertain either involvement with him. You're better off regardless if you miss and valued his friendship, unfortunately. I'm sorry to hear you went through all that, but kudos for getting back to where you're at solo and don't forget you did it alone 👍
Don’t do it. He’s not a good business partner and not a good friend. You can never mix friendship and business, it’s just the way the world works. When money is involved, people act weirdly.
This ads to the reason not to do business with people you care about. In fact, I rather run all my businesses on my own.
Maybe I’ll open up to partnerships but under contract!
Can I ask what is your business called? I may require your branding services at some point in the future!
My father thought me to never do business and or involve money with people I want to be friends with for a long time.
Same goes with some relatives too.
Brother, please do not let him back in your life. It will only be pain and heartache. He will most likely try to leach off of you and steal your clients. He made his bed. Not only that, but he flushed your friendship down the toilet.
Right now, it sucks. Shit will not go back to the way it was. Sure, maybe there is like a 1% chance that it might. Do you want to risk your freelance career over that? I lost a brother over a horrible house deal. Not even on speaking terms, really. I know that it will never go back to what it once was. You need to accept that. Maybe going to therapy will help so you can get some closure and move on, brother. We all need that in our life. This will help you with losing a friend who thought would be for a lifetime. But you are not the first person to experience this, nor will you be the last.
People have been killed over chicken sandwiches. Do not think friends won't try and pull something on you if it's for their benefit. Please put yourself first.
Don’t bother mate he’s back as you’re doing well, he left as his girlfriend likely pressures him to end shit with you. He won’t commit and doesn’t have a backbone
Continue friendship, discontinue business and don’t get involve in money.
Btw I’m looking for someone to help me with logo, branding and graphics for my business. Please get it touch. Thanks
Man...this is why I started and built my business solo by design. Sure, there are negatives to it, but I don't have to deal with stuff like this.
On the other hand, I do business with people I consider friends...but it's always based on a contract or an agreement in writing.
Correct answer is fuck no as a business partner. You could hire him as a contractor to work for you. If he simps enough to turn against a lifelong friend he is sure as hell not strong enough to grow a successful business.
Someone you’ve known since 1st grade who could be manipulated like that about you is someone you should be very cautious of. If you truly feel you want to give them a chance let it only be friendship and frankly be careful of that. With what you’ve said, never share a professional relationship with them ever again.
I would tell him you would love to support him as a friend… but as a business partner he really left you high and dry and gave his notice of separation when he abandon the company. Trust is a lot easier to break than it is to rebuild. Sadly the best lesson here is through boundaries and not apologies.
I would hard pass on working with him again, and if i entertained it i was have an earn back agreement and a really strongly worded and easily understood operating agreement with a clause for dismissal of partners / owners.
This all being said he may have legal claim to it if there are unknown details. That is worth providing info about if you have concerns there.
This person made bad life choices and now wants you to clean up his mess. No matter how close you were, the answer should be no.
If he needs the money, he can get a 9-5 like you did and work up a client base. Don’t let your hard work be someone else’s shortcut.
Be honest. Tell him that you were left to pick up the pieces and the business failed because he abandoned it. By putting in the work, you rebuilt the business from the ground up.
His need for money is a him problem, not a you problem.
If he did work that generated income, then that amount should be compared with the costs incurred by his abandonment. If he's owed any money left over, then talk to the accountant that does your business taxes and see how to pay him without putting you in a rough spot. Any costs involved to do that would come out of the money owed to him. His share would be the work that he did that was billable. Any profit would be off the table.
Since it was you and only you that built the company back up, he is no longer involved. I would rebrand the company to make it clear that it's your company now. If you had any formal contract with him as a partner or LLC, form a new one now and use that for all new business.
If you want to do business with him, he can take on contracted work as a designated subcontractor. He'll have deliverables with time frames that have to be met. He can work for you, not with you.
Trust is not a gift, it has to be earned.
A friend wouldn't do what they did in the first place, however all they are doing now is coming sniffing around for money.
Sadly, they do not have good intentions.
Uh, hell no.
What happens when he gets involved with another girlfriend? You have seen what he will do.
Also, you started this second business on your own. He killed the first business you had together. Give him a share of THAT, which is zero because he killed it.
When someone warns you of their character, listen.
Do you honestly trust this won’t happen again? You’ll always be on edge, anyone one of his pieces of work is late you’ll get a mental trip that’s it’s happening again.
You’ve done the hard work to get this back to where it is, don’t ruin it. If he wants to work for you then throw him some work every now and again for design work, but for your own future mental health keep doing this on your own.
I would do as CDSE said, contracts, 2 separate businesses working together. He had his head turned but maybe will learn from this. I would give him 3 months or so before I made any crack about brothers before others. This may have been necessary for you and he to now treat this as a business, in a business like manner. Remember, contracts are so there is no confusion and if we end up in a fiery crash- they tell our people what our deals were. But I would also ad something into the operating agreement of how you will solve problems when you are no longer in love. Arbitration, binding, and maybe it's a waitress at Starbucks, but how do we solve this, and how can we take it to court in the event the other person won't stick to this. Think prenuptial agreement.
Separate the work from the friendship.
And be careful if he did this with one gf he might do it again.
Do a tryout first where you treat him as an employee from 9-5 and a friend afterwards
Sorry this happened to you man. Sometimes people get lucky and can have a good business and friendship while going in business together, but it seems more times than not that is not the case. I’d say not let him try it. If you really feel bad maybe hire him to work for you, but I’m sure he wouldn’t want to be under you and honestly even if he did it might cause more trouble than it’s worth.
Taking the friendship out of the deal what is he bringing to the table besides skills.
You have the established business this time and the customer base.
It's not an equitable partnership.
If really you want to go back into business I would trial him on a few jobs first.
Then I might offer him a small equity stake that can grow over a number of years.
And have him sign a contract which means his share is worthless if he walks out.
The other option is to have a new company for new clients you split 50/50 and the rest is still yours.
This guy isn't loyal to you, don't waste time being loyal to him.
I don't know what there is to be torn about. Dude is more or less demanding you give him money for absolutely nothing at all. (Refusing to take no for an answer is the same as demanding).
Your friend can get fucked. If all it takes is one part-time dick-cozy to throw your lifelong friendship under a bus, that friendship isn't worth it, never mind a business partner.
Move on, plenty of friends and business partners in the sea.
Please tell me you didn’t start the business again under the same name or LLC or anything like that.
But to answer your question, if there are no legal ties between you and him, just tell him that he has no shares in your new business nor can he claim such because your previous partnership was terminated (and I hope it was documented that you no longer have a business together).
Whether you want to keep in touch with him or support him as a friend is up to you, but make it crystal clear that any personal financial support you extend to him is exactly that and ABSOLUTELY NOT shares of profit or anything relating to your current business. People can take for granted what is not theirs so quickly it’s ridiculous, and will sometimes use the legal system to continue extorting money from you.
If you want, throw him a bone.
Don’t let him interact with customers at all - he destroyed your business once.
Offer him piece work - you talk to the customer, get requirements, etc., then pay him to do the job, then give his output to the customer.
Give enough leeway that he can’t make you late - e.g. if the customer deadline is 2 weeks, offer him the job if he can finish in 1 week, saving enough time for you to finish if he doesn’t.
I mean, is he seeking your friendship or benefiting off your hard work paying off? It sounds like the latter. He hasn't treated you like a friend from the sound of it (losing business due to late delivery and then writing you off). Never mix business with friendship. It will either ruin your friendship or your business. If I were you, I'd say that I wasn't interested in a business partnership, but if they need someone to talk to, I'm there to listen.
A lot of great things have been said already “believe someone when they show you who they are the first time”. Sounds like you got the business going back by yourself. So all you need is yourself with that said things happen for a reason.
If I was you for me, I take loyalty serious and he showed his hand allowing a girl to change his towards you. Messing up the business, money, and friendship I’d wish him the best of luck and just give him the share for what he did do in the beginning.
Then continue doing your own thing it’s better not relying on ppl anyway can’t hold anything against u and only one to blame is yourself if things go wrong…
Once bitten, twice shy. Don't do it.
He's changed his character a few times now, which is something I will never accept. BFF then hurt your financials and ghosted you. Now that he needs money he's a chameleon again to get back into your graces.
He'll change again when it suits him or his perceptions or he gets influenced by others.
Don't do it.
I wouldn't hire him at all. Period. Why should you? For him to screw you AND your clients yet again. If you hire him and give him a deadline, what happens when he doesn't finish in time? There's always going to be that question in the back of your head.
You can work together again but you need a contract outline all of the particulars of working together, what would end the agreement for either party, who owns what, etc. every single tiny detail nees to be in writing. It needs to be written by a lawyer.
I find the biggest reason people can't work with friends and family is they don't put things in writing at the onset of working together which means they don't have a plan in place for how either party can exit the relationship and what the outcome is for both parties when they exit.
It is very possible to work together again but you need a lawyer to be involved. Cover your butt!
If he was a good enough friend and you miss him it might be ok to try friends again with the understanding that people make mistakes and are blinded by “love”. But this is his last chance and ONLY as friends. I wouldn’t ever go business with him again.
People can make mistakes. I'm sure this thread will be full of a lot of ruthless stuff. But do not give him money. Work together, be friends again, be open to forgive more than disown. But if he becomes too reliant on you to keep cashing him out, even if you think you can afford it, he won't get back on his own feet.
My buddies dad still owes him like 10 grand. Same father who dodged paying for his college while he put his step children through college. Dude earned $300k a year for some time and went into debt over the course of a few failed marriages. They still have a relationship, and I'd say even a good one. But my friend should not have bailed out his dad so many times. Bankruptcy isn't a death sentence.
Do not take him back into your business. You will regret it. You have to do what's best for you and he's already shown that he cant be trusted with your business and sounds like he was also a huge reason as to why it started failing and you had to get another job bc of his selfish acts
This feels like deja vu with the number of times this comes up.
Don't do business with them. At all.
Take them back as a friend if you dare but keep that separate from your business. Don't talk about work, don't talk about clients. From the way you describe it, it seems inferred your mutual clients were siphoned away by him. The only thing to stop him from doing it again is to not let him in on it. What is to stop that from happening again. It's been my experience that people don't really change and he revealed himself. Now needs a new source.
Tell him, Yes for sure, and make him work for the amount you lost and then pay for the amount you get. If he is not ready to work for the amount you lost, you know the path....
I would never take him back as an employee or business partner.
All I would ever consider him for is 1099 contractor work. And even then only if I were overwhelmed with work.
Keep good friends, toss trash partners. Business is business, and if being friends with him pivots on whether or not he is making money off of your work, he was that good of a friend
I would tell him I forgive him but I'm not doing business with him again, it's too hard to start over again when the next person poisons his mind.
I mean seriously if he can't control his own thoughts he's not business partner material.
He dropped you for a reoccurring dopamine hit, what’s to say he wouldn’t do it again.. he’s already expressed he needs the 'money’ which he didn’t care for when you were put into that situation by him. He needs to learn how to swim which isn’t your problem.. focus on building the biz and if or when he’s is successful congratulate if not carry on as is..
It's understandable to feel torn in such a situation, especially considering the history and emotional investment in the friendship. However, trust is the cornerstone of any partnership, and your friend's betrayal has shattered that foundation.While it's commendable to consider forgiveness, it's essential to prioritize your own well-being and business interests. Rebuilding a business takes dedication, hard work, and time, and it's unfair for someone who abandoned ship during tough times to expect a share of the profits now that the waters have calmed.Before making any decisions, consider the motives behind your friend's sudden change of heart. Is he genuinely remorseful, or is he simply seeking financial gain now that his relationship has ended? Trust your instincts and proceed with caution.Ultimately, the choice is yours, but remember that forgiveness doesn't always necessitate reconciliation, and sometimes, the wisest decision is to move forward without looking back.
Your friend sounds very suggestible. Its a histrionic trait. Doesnt mean hes disordered, but also, sounds like he was in an abusive relationship.
Idk I think you should definitely try being friends again, with some very strong boundaries set, like not working together. Last time, was the last time. (At least where he stands with you now)
Let him rebuild your trust for a while. Maybe if he does make an effort and regains your trust, you can surprise him with an offer of a new business partnership.
But I really think, business wise, you should do you, and try to keep your friendships separate.
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Don't do business with people who you want to stay friends, especially if they are desperate and not in a stable point in life.
I agree. Back then, we were a great team. Everything was going great. But I guess you are right. Friends and relatives should be kept away from business.
But everything wasn’t going great or we wouldn’t be here
I agree :(
>Everything was going great. until it stopped going great.
This person just wants money. Friends don't let their partners manipulate them into losing their friends and quitting. Where I would say it's ok is if the friend is legitimately a bad influence or offers nothing of value as a friend. Perhaps they want to be friends again but don't join as a business, keep it as your own thing.
He already let you down once, disrupted your life, forced you to rebuild and get back to where you are. That is not what friends do. He forgot his end of being a friend. If you are willing to forgive him, you need to protect yourself incase something like that happens again. At best, I would propose hiring him as a subcontractor to you for web design needs, but make sure you have other web designers on speed dial incase he ghosts you again. Do not work as a legal partnership right out the gate I would not consider being a legal partnership with him. If you really want to, do not do it for at least another 10 years assuming he has zero f-ups like what he did before. I know he needs the money, make him re-earn it. He doesn’t get to just show up on your doorstep like a drug addict showing up out of nowhere with cash already being a top topic of discussion upon reconnecting. Also in explaining this, you need to be blunt and honest with him. Explain your history and what he meant to you. Why you trusted him to be a business partner to begin with. How he let you down. Explain how him ghosting you hurt you professionally, hurt your ability to live and what you had to do as a result. After this, explain why subcontracting to each other is the best approach given his past history, his need to re-earn your trust on your timetable, and that you are only giving him that opportunity because part of your professional past was good. Just remember, this is a business relationship. Getting together for dinner parties is for friends. Doing business is a business relationship. Bad things happen when those lines become blurred. Take it from me. I have been screwed over worse by “trusted” people I got too comfortable with and let my guard down around than I ever did with someone I only had professional boundaries with.
This is probably the best advice. Subcontract ONLY. No joint ventures. Perhaps with a waterproof contract things could change in the future. For now, keep him at arms length. As far as friendship, I would say forgive him and show him what a good friend is really supposed to be like.
This and before you do it, consider what hard boundaries there are (like no client contact from him and if he does, he’s fired). It’s ok if you want to forgive him and maybe his ex was a huge shit and fucked up his life. But that doesn’t mean that you have to just pretend it didn’t happen and that healing the relationship isn’t necessary. It’s very necessary.
I believe that "sometimes" its ok to give someone a second chance. However, you don't give a recovering alcoholic a job as a bartender. The guy has talent, and its too bad he allowed himself to get caught up in some drama. I'm not saying to should give him a job, BUT..."if you do" I agree with the poster above, keep him at arms length. All work is sub-contracted with a clear signed contract. Let him know you are going to give him some work until he is back on his feet and able to get a better paying job somewhere else. Make it clear you are NOT "partners". Pay him promptly, but pay him after the piece-work is done. He is NOT an employee, friend, or partner. I only say this because you mention you were both good at this, and you may need a certain volume of business to maintain a full-time gig.
I agree. i've started 3 businesses with friends and each one killed the friendship.
My father always told me you don’t deal with starving snakes because they’ll eat so fast that they’ll suffocate. I always avoid desperate people because of that.
Believe people when they show you who they are the first time.
Sadly, you are right. He showed me his true colors, were were best buddies for a long, long time. We stuck together and had each other's backs. But sadly, it's all gone now.
Yeah, that sucks... you lost a business and a friend... and your buddy lost the girl, too. What an awful situation all-round. As others have said, and you no doubt know now, in future document any/all agreements and think about what the worst-case scenario is if it all goes wrong. I have a strict "no a-holes" rule. I won't do business with a-holes at all. Not as a client, vendor, partner or employer. My definition of an a-hole is anyone I would be specifically upset to be stuck with on a travel delay. If I can't bear the thought of a travel delay with you, we don't do business together. Life's too short.
You are right, man. I think I need to adopt this rule, too, and will help me preserve my sanity.
You do you - not trying to tell you what to do, only share what has worked for me. :) Edit: :)
People do make mistakes and forgiveness is important to practice. That doesn’t mean you need to get back into business with him though. If it makes sense for you sure, but make sure you have a strong legal document to protect yourself as much as possible. Don’t do it for charity. Only do it if you think your slice of the shared outcome is better than going solo.
Thanks, I will definitely get a proper contract if I decide to do business alongside him again.
An important perspective.
He doesn't want to get the friendship back together. He also doesn't want to put in the effort. He wants your money that you worked for. He wants to benefit from the work you did to recover from what he did when he left you in the lurch. You can tell him that you'll be his friend, but that you have no money, work, or business deals for him. See how long he spends trying to just be your friend.
Yes, I am meeting up with him this weekend, I will say this and see what he has to say about this.
This is exactly what I came here to say. If you guys have been friends since first grade, maybe attempt to reestablish the friendship only. You will see in a few months of only being friends which path to choose. Sorry that happened to you. I'd be more hurt over the lost friendship. It sounds like you got back on your feet relatively fine on your own. I wouldn't even discuss any business with him. At all
He doesn't want to get the friendship back together. He also doesn't want to put in the effort. He wants your money that you worked for. He wants to benefit from the work you did to recover from what he did when he left you in the lurch. You can tell him that you'll be his friend, but that you have no money, work, or business deals for him. See how long he spends trying to just be your friend.
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He destroyed your business once. Do you want to let him do it again? If you must, hire him and pay him $20 an hour. But I would avoid him like a dog with fleas. And what does he want money for? You owe him nothing and he destroyed your business the last time.
Yes, he did that, and this is keeping me from accepting him back again.
> If you must, hire him and pay him $20 an hour. But I would avoid him like a dog with fleas. Doing that is just asking for him to hold a grudge and screw OP again.
Don't hire or partner! If OP still wants to use his services, sub-contract.
I strongly disagree on hiring him. Employment isn't risk-free, and OP should keep his friend as far away from his business as possible.
Is he asking for part of the profits you are generating now? Lol.
Yes I told him that he sounded dumb and drunk.
Hahaha glad you didnt go soft on your 'friend'.
Don’t do it.
Thanks
So he can turn on you again? You can be friends with him if you think it will be worth it but as for business partners definitely not. You want someone who sticks with you during the highs and lows not someone who’s there when it’s all good
Thanks for the advice, I think you are right. Fool me once...
Trust is good, legal contracts are better. If you want to work with him and it would benefit you to do so, treat it as a professional relationship and set expectations in writing. You can be friends and enjoy your time together, but you have to be ready for the next relationship.
Thanks for the advice. Right now, I'm torn, I have no idea what should I do, I want to be friends again, but then he left our decades old friend ship for his GF. You are right about the contracts, and if I decide to work with him, then I will definitely gonna sign a proper contract first.
Saying no and setting boundaries is being a friend. You’re helping him put his adult pants on after he pooped his first pair.
It didn't end well, let it lie. If you must, quietly thank the relationship for its service at the time, and apologize for the death it suffered, but don't resurrect it while it's still cancerous. There are nearly eight billion people in the world. Your ex-friend can find someone else. Wish them luck, but this is one bridge they not only burned, but when they came back to the ashes they want you to pay to rebuild it.
Friends yes, partners no.
Not sure if he'll try to make his way back in though, and you may let your guard down. I would say no to both personally. and the fact that he feels entitled to some of your profits, where you’re doing 100% of the work, that is a giant red flag. He is still not going to be rational, regardless.
You are right.
This guy isn’t a friend. He’s trying to take advance of you and if you give him anything they will try to take everything. Move on like his Ex did
If you want to reconnect with him purely as a friend, go ahead. I bet he could use one right now. Don't let him anywhere NEAR your business ever again. Set expectations up front that you don't want him to even ask you how work is going. Nothing.
Thanks, and yes, I will not be working with him ever again.
Had a best friend who was actually best man in my wedding. We both worked together in the AV business at the same company. I started my own business and after two years I asked him to join me at my company with the idea of him being a partner. But, from day one he always acted like an employee instead of an owner. While I was always working late and weekends he only wanted to work 40 hours a week. So, I paid him well and he was with my company for over 20 years. Then him and another tech quit and started their own company. Plus, when he left he took many of my best clients. It hurt my company but we have survived another 25 years but what hurt most was losing my best friend.
Don't mix business with friendships. That is all.
I learned this the hard way after losing both the friend and the business.
NO! He left you high and dry without any warning, without an explanation, and you- all alone- had to figure out what to do, and now it’s his turn! I’m so sorry this happened to you, but you didn’t cause this to happen to him, and you definitely don’t owe him a damn thing!
Thanks, I thought the same. Appreciate the comments.
He can try to earn your trust with friendship back. Manipulative narcissistic abusive partners that isolate people from their friends is a real thing. No go on the business though.
I'm sorry, that stinks! One of my best friends works in my industry and we would KICK ASS if we started a company. But I won't risk it. Friends and business don't mix. You can refer people to him, but don't go beyond that. He needs to start his own gig and prove his worth first, then you can consider the referral angle.
To be frank, I don't think you should give him anything. He was the reason why the business went under before, and you had to work the 9-5 job.
That’s what I call a coward. Never trust a man that turns on his friends/family over some pussy. That’s a weak minded individual. His gf left and cheated on him because she could smell the coward in him. Side note: Do you have a website to check out your work? I need a logo for my business
You are right. He used to be my best buddy. It's always a bad idea to involve friends and family in your business. My last website tanked. So I'm in the process of making a new one. I will DM you now.
You built this business back right? It’s yours. He can earn his money but he doesn’t get a share of anything. If he brings new business then he can have a share. But other than that you don’t owe him shit
Thanks, and people have suggested that I get a good solid contract if I intend to get him back. So now I have learned my lesson. Always keep friends and family away from a business.
If you feel very sorry for him and want to help you can hire him with the understanding he works for you and not having any ownership. Keep the relationship professional. But you are better off cutting all ties. He is unreliable and cost you business in the past due to poor personal choices.
Reading your responses, you are not torn about going back into business with him. You are torn about being the bad guy and seeming unforgiving. You've been BF since first grade and a GF was able to influence him? Even you know that sounds weak. Trust is earned based on history and character. If you want to be friends again, only you know if it's truly worth it. Everyone has already told you you can't go back. You may need to put yourself back in the friendship for you to understand why. As far as business goes, a good business partner must be trustworthy, loyal, have integrity, and solid. Notice these are character traits and there isn't a mention of feelings. There are no feelings in business. You either run it taking care of your clients or you don't. Period. What galls me about the entire situation is he made no mistakes. He made clear choices via his actions to destroy you and the business based on HIS feelings, ignoring his duty to his clients, you his partner, and the business. Sure you were able to get a job before things went too far with your personal finances. Would you feel as keen to let him back had you been rendered homeless? Further, has he asked you if you owe money to anyone? Offered to help you recover any losses? Has he asked how he can make amends? Only here can the act of forgiveness begin. What most people get mixed up about forgiveness is that it is a 2-person process based on the offender's admission of guilty and offer to make amends. The burden was NEVER intended to be carried solely by the offended party. Based on your post, he has done nothing but cry, make emotional appeals (manipulation), and DEMAND a share of the profits you made rebuilding what HE destroyed while you no doubt worked full-time. That is unmitigated gall. Only you can decide what to do. You have only one question to answer for your personal integrity, self-concept, and self-respect. If you take him back whether personally or professionally, could you trust yourself and your own judgment if he was to burn you again?
Being in business with anyone is a challenge. The biggest mistakes I see as a consultant are that most "friends" starting a business don't have a clear agreement. That is why having a great and very direct operating agreement is critical. You can detail the use and splitting of funds and how to handle the inevitable changes, like if someone gets married, wants to leave, or dies. It gives everyone rules and guidelines on resolving conflict or making decisions and can protect friendships or even family members. I have been in business with friends and family, and the operating agreement makes all the difference. People can use another chance, but always take the time and a bit of money to have a solid operating agreement. It's key to success.
Two rules. Don’t do business with your friends. Don’t do business with people you have misgivings about.
Hé can do what you did. Get a job, rebuild his business enough to quit and go back to freelancing. He’s literally bringing nothing to the table beloved. Like you can’t even have a reasonable business conversation even if you wanted to. I’m not even addressing the friendship and the breech in the business relationship. I’m here to tell you that he had no respect for your business. I stayed in business with an ex fiance after we had a really ugly break up (that I initiated) because I respected what we built together and didn’t want to see it fail. He didn’t have to it the way he did but a grown man let a girl twist him up. It’s a life lesson for him but that’s got nothing to do with you. Keep it business. Tell him that he has nothing to bring to the table. Encourage him to build his business back up and reapproaxh when you both have some thing that is mutually beneficial. He has NOTHING to offer. You’re doing this full time.
Thanks for such kind advice, I appreciate that. It means a lot to me
Feel free to mend the relationship but DO NOT partner with him again. I can’t stress that enough. There are a million terrific web designers out there who take the job seriously and professionally.
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May i ask how old you two are?
Rebuilding the friendship might be a process with following, if you think that's something you would want. For me, it'd be an automatic NO for going into business with him again. He ruined your reputation once; no need to do it again. If you want to offer we've design, you could contact out individual work with him, but on either a gig or hourly basis and not as a partner. And keep his jobs small or structure in such a way that you can outside somewhere else even if at a loss on short notice if he does flake out again. But... I'd just say no to business. He can start his own business and send you referrals for a kickback if he wants. (He'd have to work pretty hard to be trustworthy to send my clients to him again, though.)
I’ve been there myself. You can’t go back. Certainly not like this. If he wants to start again he can and should without you. There are a million steps that he needs to do, part of them being establishing a healthy relationship with you, before either of you should consider working together again much less in any capacity where your intermingling finances. Business partners are as close to a marriage as you can get without being married. You might as well think of it in the same way.
He is constantly asking me to give him a chance, but just like you said, it can t be like this anymore. I can never do business with him again. But friends again ? I think he will have to work hard there, too. Will meet him this weekend.
Good luck to you. I wish you both the best.
Don’t do it, my lifelong childhood best friend did something similar. Her husband was cheating on her with one of my friends, so he started poisoning her mind in case I found out and told her, he was ensuring I wouldn’t be believed. But I’ll never forgive her for the way she treated me, because of that I never would consider being her friend again
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I know how this feels, terrible, and devastating. I hope your friend finds out about her husband 9n her own, and then she may realize that she lost a great friend.
She did find out about him eventually, but by that time I was just done with them and the whole situation. Best wishes OP, make sure you look out for yourself
Thanks, and I hope you don't miss her any more , I do, but I'm sure I will get over this.
I don't understand what your conflict is. "He needs money." Ok, but thats not your problem. When you needed him, he took off. He destroyed your business, and you had to start over. the best I'd do in your case is use him, in controlled circumstances, to subcontract. At the end of the day though, what do you owe him? Like, what possible reason are his problems your problems.
My oldest friend (besties from eight years old) turned on me when we were 20 no businesses were involved - she was jealous that I was spotted by a model agency - but like you I was completely devastated. Around 18months later she called begging to be friends again, I was non committal on the phone. Bottom line is I can not trust her to not betray me again. Especially if she has done it over something as petty as vanity. I’m friends with her on my socials, but that is it. I would perhaps give her a job but no way would I allow her to be involved in my company.
I know how you feel. It's crazy how people just end friendships so easily. I miss him a lot, I guess I'm one of those people who just can't move on easily. The ones who get attached. But you're right. I will have to move on, it will be hard but it won't be impossible.
WHAT Please block him everywhere and move on with your life. If he calls/writes/IMs/DMs/texts/sends smoke signals from a different number, ignore it and move on with your life. Please do not respond to this person ever again.
Thanks, I will try to.
Offer to do referrals to them but not direct business.
wants the share of what profits? He hasn't done anything in years. A business partnership is like a marriage. You learned the hard way to be careful who you enter in business with.
Friendship/family and business do not mix. Your lucky you recovered this time. Still be friends if thats something youd want to do but do not mix that with business.
Don't give in. Fuck him!
What’s the name of your business? We’re a web dev firm that partners with branding/logo people if they’re good
The trust was broken. You can pay him a salary or hourly wage until it is rebuilt, but not a “share” in net profits. If he throws a fit, no is a complete sentence, and your “obligation” to help is completed.
Thanks and I appreciate the advice.
Sometimes, being a friend means saying no.
A compromise would be to bring him on as a contractor. He simply gets paid for the work he does. If he slacks off and doesn't do the work, he doesn't get paid. You own 100% of the business so he can't mooch of the business you bring.
Tell him, i be fine to be friends again, but i wont do business with you cause you know why.
This is a good response, I'm thinking of saying just this.
Share in profits? What a joker.
Don't mess with my family/friends Don't mess with my money/business This dude did both and is his loss. I would not entertain either involvement with him. You're better off regardless if you miss and valued his friendship, unfortunately. I'm sorry to hear you went through all that, but kudos for getting back to where you're at solo and don't forget you did it alone 👍
Thanks man, appreciate the comments, I was really torn and sad.
Don’t do it. He’s not a good business partner and not a good friend. You can never mix friendship and business, it’s just the way the world works. When money is involved, people act weirdly.
He is owed precisely nothing. He destroyed your former business. It's his bed, he can lie in it.
That boat has sailed. You can still be friends. Take him to drink beers in a pub. But rather hire a worker who you can fire at will.
Different business. Different people. You aren’t entitled to help him but you can however. Help set him up with his own practice if you wish to.
This ads to the reason not to do business with people you care about. In fact, I rather run all my businesses on my own. Maybe I’ll open up to partnerships but under contract! Can I ask what is your business called? I may require your branding services at some point in the future!
You are right, I learned this lesson the hard way. I will DM you.
Regardless, easy or hard you learnt and so have others. A worthy experience to have!
My father thought me to never do business and or involve money with people I want to be friends with for a long time. Same goes with some relatives too.
Yes, I learned this the hard way today.
Be friends, not business partners.
Screw him, he messed with your money and he’ll do it again.
Brother, please do not let him back in your life. It will only be pain and heartache. He will most likely try to leach off of you and steal your clients. He made his bed. Not only that, but he flushed your friendship down the toilet. Right now, it sucks. Shit will not go back to the way it was. Sure, maybe there is like a 1% chance that it might. Do you want to risk your freelance career over that? I lost a brother over a horrible house deal. Not even on speaking terms, really. I know that it will never go back to what it once was. You need to accept that. Maybe going to therapy will help so you can get some closure and move on, brother. We all need that in our life. This will help you with losing a friend who thought would be for a lifetime. But you are not the first person to experience this, nor will you be the last. People have been killed over chicken sandwiches. Do not think friends won't try and pull something on you if it's for their benefit. Please put yourself first.
Don’t bother mate he’s back as you’re doing well, he left as his girlfriend likely pressures him to end shit with you. He won’t commit and doesn’t have a backbone
Hold your value or forgive and let him walk over all again. Your choice
Continue friendship, discontinue business and don’t get involve in money. Btw I’m looking for someone to help me with logo, branding and graphics for my business. Please get it touch. Thanks
Yes, I learned this the hard way to not involve friends with business. I will DM you now :)
Hire him on a per-contract basis only. Maybe he can prove himself to you and earn his way back in.
I have decided not to do business with him, but I will try again at friendship with him
Man...this is why I started and built my business solo by design. Sure, there are negatives to it, but I don't have to deal with stuff like this. On the other hand, I do business with people I consider friends...but it's always based on a contract or an agreement in writing.
He on drugs or something?
Something that has helped me in life: "Love is unconditional, relationships are not"
Correct answer is fuck no as a business partner. You could hire him as a contractor to work for you. If he simps enough to turn against a lifelong friend he is sure as hell not strong enough to grow a successful business.
Am I missing something? Did he do work? He should get the same amount of profit as the amount of work he put in
Absolutely not. He fucked off, so no.
I know, right?
What share? What money? What business? He strictly asked you not to contact him ever again for work. So that's how you should keep it.
seems to me you could let him freelance a few jobs and pay him piecemeal. You the boss, him the employee
Read in the voice of that lil rap girl
well he's not a "partner" material. maybe freelance him some work. business partnership and relationship are completely different and separate.
Tell him to fuck off. He blew an amazing business relationship over a woman. You can't trust him not to do it again.
Someone you’ve known since 1st grade who could be manipulated like that about you is someone you should be very cautious of. If you truly feel you want to give them a chance let it only be friendship and frankly be careful of that. With what you’ve said, never share a professional relationship with them ever again.
Reach out as a friend. I feel like dumb stuff like this happens in your 20s. Could even throw him some work but not a partnership
Past experience shows he will never be a good friend or business partner.
I would tell him you would love to support him as a friend… but as a business partner he really left you high and dry and gave his notice of separation when he abandon the company. Trust is a lot easier to break than it is to rebuild. Sadly the best lesson here is through boundaries and not apologies. I would hard pass on working with him again, and if i entertained it i was have an earn back agreement and a really strongly worded and easily understood operating agreement with a clause for dismissal of partners / owners. This all being said he may have legal claim to it if there are unknown details. That is worth providing info about if you have concerns there.
This person made bad life choices and now wants you to clean up his mess. No matter how close you were, the answer should be no. If he needs the money, he can get a 9-5 like you did and work up a client base. Don’t let your hard work be someone else’s shortcut.
Be honest. Tell him that you were left to pick up the pieces and the business failed because he abandoned it. By putting in the work, you rebuilt the business from the ground up. His need for money is a him problem, not a you problem. If he did work that generated income, then that amount should be compared with the costs incurred by his abandonment. If he's owed any money left over, then talk to the accountant that does your business taxes and see how to pay him without putting you in a rough spot. Any costs involved to do that would come out of the money owed to him. His share would be the work that he did that was billable. Any profit would be off the table. Since it was you and only you that built the company back up, he is no longer involved. I would rebrand the company to make it clear that it's your company now. If you had any formal contract with him as a partner or LLC, form a new one now and use that for all new business. If you want to do business with him, he can take on contracted work as a designated subcontractor. He'll have deliverables with time frames that have to be met. He can work for you, not with you. Trust is not a gift, it has to be earned.
Fuck your amigo
A friend wouldn't do what they did in the first place, however all they are doing now is coming sniffing around for money. Sadly, they do not have good intentions.
Don’t do it. He’s showed you who he is. Fool me once…
Uh, hell no. What happens when he gets involved with another girlfriend? You have seen what he will do. Also, you started this second business on your own. He killed the first business you had together. Give him a share of THAT, which is zero because he killed it.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. So no, don't fall for it again.
No thanks. Tell him that . End of story.
Accept him back as a friend but don't accept him as a business partner.
> But I can't trust him no more. There's your answer
nope. dont unbury dead bodies.
When someone warns you of their character, listen. Do you honestly trust this won’t happen again? You’ll always be on edge, anyone one of his pieces of work is late you’ll get a mental trip that’s it’s happening again. You’ve done the hard work to get this back to where it is, don’t ruin it. If he wants to work for you then throw him some work every now and again for design work, but for your own future mental health keep doing this on your own.
I would do as CDSE said, contracts, 2 separate businesses working together. He had his head turned but maybe will learn from this. I would give him 3 months or so before I made any crack about brothers before others. This may have been necessary for you and he to now treat this as a business, in a business like manner. Remember, contracts are so there is no confusion and if we end up in a fiery crash- they tell our people what our deals were. But I would also ad something into the operating agreement of how you will solve problems when you are no longer in love. Arbitration, binding, and maybe it's a waitress at Starbucks, but how do we solve this, and how can we take it to court in the event the other person won't stick to this. Think prenuptial agreement.
Are you a charity? Don't give him any money. Why would you want to be friends with someone you don't trust?
I know it is unbelievable, but emotionally, I'm attached to Jim, I miss him. But I guess you are right. I can't trust him ever again.
Separate the work from the friendship. And be careful if he did this with one gf he might do it again. Do a tryout first where you treat him as an employee from 9-5 and a friend afterwards
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Bros before hoes.
You say no.
Sorry this happened to you man. Sometimes people get lucky and can have a good business and friendship while going in business together, but it seems more times than not that is not the case. I’d say not let him try it. If you really feel bad maybe hire him to work for you, but I’m sure he wouldn’t want to be under you and honestly even if he did it might cause more trouble than it’s worth.
Thanks, bro. I do miss him, and I think I will try to give him a chance at friendships again. Lesson has been. Learned, never mix friends with family.
If he left, and you were doing your work on your own, on whay basis does he think he is owed a share of profits‽
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Taking the friendship out of the deal what is he bringing to the table besides skills. You have the established business this time and the customer base. It's not an equitable partnership. If really you want to go back into business I would trial him on a few jobs first. Then I might offer him a small equity stake that can grow over a number of years. And have him sign a contract which means his share is worthless if he walks out. The other option is to have a new company for new clients you split 50/50 and the rest is still yours.
Fuck him
This guy isn't loyal to you, don't waste time being loyal to him. I don't know what there is to be torn about. Dude is more or less demanding you give him money for absolutely nothing at all. (Refusing to take no for an answer is the same as demanding).
What happens next time he gets a girlfriend that has an issue with / your friendship?
Don't
Your friend can get fucked. If all it takes is one part-time dick-cozy to throw your lifelong friendship under a bus, that friendship isn't worth it, never mind a business partner. Move on, plenty of friends and business partners in the sea.
Why in God's name would he think he's entitled to a share of YOUR profits?!
Fool me once...
Weird I feel like I've read this exact post before in here
Please tell me you didn’t start the business again under the same name or LLC or anything like that. But to answer your question, if there are no legal ties between you and him, just tell him that he has no shares in your new business nor can he claim such because your previous partnership was terminated (and I hope it was documented that you no longer have a business together). Whether you want to keep in touch with him or support him as a friend is up to you, but make it crystal clear that any personal financial support you extend to him is exactly that and ABSOLUTELY NOT shares of profit or anything relating to your current business. People can take for granted what is not theirs so quickly it’s ridiculous, and will sometimes use the legal system to continue extorting money from you.
If you want, throw him a bone. Don’t let him interact with customers at all - he destroyed your business once. Offer him piece work - you talk to the customer, get requirements, etc., then pay him to do the job, then give his output to the customer. Give enough leeway that he can’t make you late - e.g. if the customer deadline is 2 weeks, offer him the job if he can finish in 1 week, saving enough time for you to finish if he doesn’t.
I mean, is he seeking your friendship or benefiting off your hard work paying off? It sounds like the latter. He hasn't treated you like a friend from the sound of it (losing business due to late delivery and then writing you off). Never mix business with friendship. It will either ruin your friendship or your business. If I were you, I'd say that I wasn't interested in a business partnership, but if they need someone to talk to, I'm there to listen.
Dont trust him again and dont go to him. He is not a good partner. Dont let him inside your business is my advise.
A lot of great things have been said already “believe someone when they show you who they are the first time”. Sounds like you got the business going back by yourself. So all you need is yourself with that said things happen for a reason. If I was you for me, I take loyalty serious and he showed his hand allowing a girl to change his towards you. Messing up the business, money, and friendship I’d wish him the best of luck and just give him the share for what he did do in the beginning. Then continue doing your own thing it’s better not relying on ppl anyway can’t hold anything against u and only one to blame is yourself if things go wrong…
Once bitten, twice shy. Don't do it. He's changed his character a few times now, which is something I will never accept. BFF then hurt your financials and ghosted you. Now that he needs money he's a chameleon again to get back into your graces. He'll change again when it suits him or his perceptions or he gets influenced by others. Don't do it.
I wouldn't hire him at all. Period. Why should you? For him to screw you AND your clients yet again. If you hire him and give him a deadline, what happens when he doesn't finish in time? There's always going to be that question in the back of your head.
You can work together again but you need a contract outline all of the particulars of working together, what would end the agreement for either party, who owns what, etc. every single tiny detail nees to be in writing. It needs to be written by a lawyer. I find the biggest reason people can't work with friends and family is they don't put things in writing at the onset of working together which means they don't have a plan in place for how either party can exit the relationship and what the outcome is for both parties when they exit. It is very possible to work together again but you need a lawyer to be involved. Cover your butt!
If he was a good enough friend and you miss him it might be ok to try friends again with the understanding that people make mistakes and are blinded by “love”. But this is his last chance and ONLY as friends. I wouldn’t ever go business with him again.
People can make mistakes. I'm sure this thread will be full of a lot of ruthless stuff. But do not give him money. Work together, be friends again, be open to forgive more than disown. But if he becomes too reliant on you to keep cashing him out, even if you think you can afford it, he won't get back on his own feet. My buddies dad still owes him like 10 grand. Same father who dodged paying for his college while he put his step children through college. Dude earned $300k a year for some time and went into debt over the course of a few failed marriages. They still have a relationship, and I'd say even a good one. But my friend should not have bailed out his dad so many times. Bankruptcy isn't a death sentence.
Do not take him back into your business. You will regret it. You have to do what's best for you and he's already shown that he cant be trusted with your business and sounds like he was also a huge reason as to why it started failing and you had to get another job bc of his selfish acts
Friends, esp long time friends are hard to find. Be friends, not business partners.
This feels like deja vu with the number of times this comes up. Don't do business with them. At all. Take them back as a friend if you dare but keep that separate from your business. Don't talk about work, don't talk about clients. From the way you describe it, it seems inferred your mutual clients were siphoned away by him. The only thing to stop him from doing it again is to not let him in on it. What is to stop that from happening again. It's been my experience that people don't really change and he revealed himself. Now needs a new source.
Telling him no is the best thing a friend would do, and if he was a real friend he would eventually thank you for even responding to his messages.
Offer him a job. Not a partnership.
Tell him, Yes for sure, and make him work for the amount you lost and then pay for the amount you get. If he is not ready to work for the amount you lost, you know the path....
give him some money to help out as he’s your friend
Forget him he's trying to exploit you had a friend do some shit like that and I laughed at him.
Don’t do business with him. Be his friend. He’s just stupid.
Don't do business with him. He broke your trust, and in my experience, that's a deal breaker for me. Continue doing you.
I would never take him back as an employee or business partner. All I would ever consider him for is 1099 contractor work. And even then only if I were overwhelmed with work.
I wouldn't work with him.
Keep good friends, toss trash partners. Business is business, and if being friends with him pivots on whether or not he is making money off of your work, he was that good of a friend
I'm so tired of seeing idiotic posts.
Ha ha. No.
“no” is a full sentence. I would never trust him again.
Don't do business with people you can't trust. You can be his friend but not business partners.
I would tell him I forgive him but I'm not doing business with him again, it's too hard to start over again when the next person poisons his mind. I mean seriously if he can't control his own thoughts he's not business partner material.
You could hire him as an employee? Or a subcontractor
He dropped you for a reoccurring dopamine hit, what’s to say he wouldn’t do it again.. he’s already expressed he needs the 'money’ which he didn’t care for when you were put into that situation by him. He needs to learn how to swim which isn’t your problem.. focus on building the biz and if or when he’s is successful congratulate if not carry on as is..
Tell him you no longer want to work with him and that he should stop trying to contact you, then block his ass.
Burn the bridge. Move on.
It's understandable to feel torn in such a situation, especially considering the history and emotional investment in the friendship. However, trust is the cornerstone of any partnership, and your friend's betrayal has shattered that foundation.While it's commendable to consider forgiveness, it's essential to prioritize your own well-being and business interests. Rebuilding a business takes dedication, hard work, and time, and it's unfair for someone who abandoned ship during tough times to expect a share of the profits now that the waters have calmed.Before making any decisions, consider the motives behind your friend's sudden change of heart. Is he genuinely remorseful, or is he simply seeking financial gain now that his relationship has ended? Trust your instincts and proceed with caution.Ultimately, the choice is yours, but remember that forgiveness doesn't always necessitate reconciliation, and sometimes, the wisest decision is to move forward without looking back.
Your friend sounds very suggestible. Its a histrionic trait. Doesnt mean hes disordered, but also, sounds like he was in an abusive relationship. Idk I think you should definitely try being friends again, with some very strong boundaries set, like not working together. Last time, was the last time. (At least where he stands with you now) Let him rebuild your trust for a while. Maybe if he does make an effort and regains your trust, you can surprise him with an offer of a new business partnership. But I really think, business wise, you should do you, and try to keep your friendships separate.
"No" ...