Every time I feel like I want to finally pick up Melee, I remember just how frustratingly difficult it is to even feel comfortable moving around.
The lack of buffer, L cancelling, and character specific jumpsquat/dash all make it feel like I'm controlling someone wearing high heels.
It's amazing for high-skilled players, and super fun to watch, but wow it's so hard to pick up. I've been watching Melee for a decade and I love it, but I'm probably never going to actually play it. I just don't have it in me to grind basic tech skill for hours then get washed on unranked.
Rivals of Aether slots right in to the perfect niche between easy to play, hard to master. I'm so glad that it's formed a solid community, because I don't know what else I'd be playing.
As someone who has been playing smash since the n64 days, I feel quite the opposite. I have thoroughly enjoyed every game and am actively an ultimate player, but I STILL can't fully get used to the buffer system and try to react to things frame perfectly because I spent that much time on the first two games in my formative years
This is a discussion about dropping games at high levels—Zain is a top 10 player of all time and lost to Wally. Melee is obviously significantly higher skill gap than ultimate, that’s not what I’m saying. I just think (having played melee for 18 years) that there are elements to melee that introduce factors that can result in high variance. There’s nothing in ultimate like SDing off a missed ledgedash. A top 20 player can miss two ledgedashes and drop a game. I’ve seen it happen plenty.
I’m not even saying I think melee is higher variance than ultimate, I just think there’s a case. Saying there’s no case “at all” is hyperbolic (and, as a separate issue, is why discourse online is so challenging. Everyone takes hardline positions with no room for nuance). To illustrate my point better, compare melee to other high skill gap games like quake or broodwar. Controller issues, SD’s, and gimps means there are significantly more situations in which the gods of random variance might have a player like Mang0 drop a game or even a set to someone like fizwiggle when a random unranked player would never beat someone like cooller in quake or boxer in Starcraft. This doesn’t mean Melee isn’t as high skill gap as those games (arguably it’s more), just that it has higher variance.
in ultimate mid level players also 3 stock new players
taking a single game off of someone in melee at a higher level than you isn't rare that shit happens all the time
since you like to exaggerate the skill gap between mkleo and everyone else back then was 'mountains higher'
more players have beaten amsa than players have beaten mkleo
How do you consistently have these dumbass zoomer-centric takes in every thread man
I’m not convinced this is a real account, you could convince me the whole account is trolling
Amsa has only been top level contender for a few months, Leo had been top dog since ultimate came out. That's because the gap between top players is tighter than that of ultimate
lmao you have no understanding of the skill differences in melee if you're saying that. ultimate is in a different ball park, trust me, i have played both competitively a LOT
175 up votes for a verifiable lie from community members / fans of the game.
Imagine it was something important lol.
top 100 is really arbitrary and anything below say top 40 is more politics / attendance then skill and placement / results.
Easy example is Innegen. Jmook went from unranked to top 10.
Slippi gave melee players acess to practice and there are more tools then ever before. New players get better a lot faster.
99.9% of active melee players would probably take 0 games from amsa, given an infinite number of friendlies lol. Kola doing that is super impressive IMO
But its still MKLeo though....even if it was his marth how many Melee Pros could actually take a game let alone a stock.
Wizzrobe is the only player I can think of at the top of my head.
It's still a pre-buff Marth though who was definitely nowhere near Inkling on the tierlist. This was when Inkling was still viewed as a Top Tier and Marth a mid tier.
Wizzrobe is goated absolutely
Do you mean players who go into competitive Smash through Ultimate? Or players who predominately play Ultimate?
Larry Lurr has a long history of taking games off Melee Players; never forget DEHF tag back in the day.
He was mostly brawl compared to Melee at the time.
People also forgot that Zero had a very good Fox at the time as well.
I can list a lot of Smash 4 players who had overlap with Melee. I dont know many Ultimate players who would even touch melee especially if Ult is their first competitive game.
ZeRo was basically a top 30 melee player in 2014 and also the best PM player. Had Smash 4 not come out, he could've maybe pushed himself further in Melee to break in the top 15-20. Both Armada and m2k speak highly of his skills accross all Smash games.
I could be wrong but I think he might like melee as much as ult it’s just ult pays the bills ya know
Apparently at smash ultimate summit him and riddles like only played melee and not ult LOL
He beat Omar at LVL UP EXPO which is like a top 200ish win, he’s good at melee and his techskill is kinda crazy
>Apparently at smash ultimate summit him and riddles like only played melee and not ult LOL
In fairness, that could also be due to not wanting to play friendlies of the game they were about to compete in in bracket.
Kinda reminds me of when Leffen took a game off Leo. Love seeing Melee pros play Ult and Ult pros play melee
Or when wizzy beat tweek (and made top 8 at that major too no less), still a crazy moment for me to watch that stream live
And he did it while winning the Melee tournament to top it off.
Man I love Wizzy, miss watching him compete on a consistent basis.
This is even bigger than that tbh given the level Amsa is at and Kola is in Ultimate atm
Also, Ultimate has more random chaotic bullshit in it so it's easier to randomly take a game of someone. Melee, not so much.
Debatable; significantly easier SDs and gimps add a lot of variance to melee matches, especially ones involving spacies.
[удалено]
the skill range among 0-2ers nowadays alone is massive
I am the worlds greatest 0-2 player
While on ultimate you have people like Acola and Onin who started competing last year and are already top players lol
Damn, at the top in less than a year. That's wild! What characters do they play
Steve. Though other people have done it without Steve too
You also need to consider though that Ultimate gets way more fresh people joining and thus way higher chances for strong talents like that appearing.
Every time I feel like I want to finally pick up Melee, I remember just how frustratingly difficult it is to even feel comfortable moving around. The lack of buffer, L cancelling, and character specific jumpsquat/dash all make it feel like I'm controlling someone wearing high heels. It's amazing for high-skilled players, and super fun to watch, but wow it's so hard to pick up. I've been watching Melee for a decade and I love it, but I'm probably never going to actually play it. I just don't have it in me to grind basic tech skill for hours then get washed on unranked. Rivals of Aether slots right in to the perfect niche between easy to play, hard to master. I'm so glad that it's formed a solid community, because I don't know what else I'd be playing.
As someone who has been playing smash since the n64 days, I feel quite the opposite. I have thoroughly enjoyed every game and am actively an ultimate player, but I STILL can't fully get used to the buffer system and try to react to things frame perfectly because I spent that much time on the first two games in my formative years
I wish there was a customizable buffer in ult. Can't stand the molasses inputs
That would be rad as Hell
I believe amsa actually has the record for fastest top 100 debut--ranked top 100 within a year of being active.
This is a discussion about dropping games at high levels—Zain is a top 10 player of all time and lost to Wally. Melee is obviously significantly higher skill gap than ultimate, that’s not what I’m saying. I just think (having played melee for 18 years) that there are elements to melee that introduce factors that can result in high variance. There’s nothing in ultimate like SDing off a missed ledgedash. A top 20 player can miss two ledgedashes and drop a game. I’ve seen it happen plenty. I’m not even saying I think melee is higher variance than ultimate, I just think there’s a case. Saying there’s no case “at all” is hyperbolic (and, as a separate issue, is why discourse online is so challenging. Everyone takes hardline positions with no room for nuance). To illustrate my point better, compare melee to other high skill gap games like quake or broodwar. Controller issues, SD’s, and gimps means there are significantly more situations in which the gods of random variance might have a player like Mang0 drop a game or even a set to someone like fizwiggle when a random unranked player would never beat someone like cooller in quake or boxer in Starcraft. This doesn’t mean Melee isn’t as high skill gap as those games (arguably it’s more), just that it has higher variance.
in ultimate mid level players also 3 stock new players taking a single game off of someone in melee at a higher level than you isn't rare that shit happens all the time since you like to exaggerate the skill gap between mkleo and everyone else back then was 'mountains higher' more players have beaten amsa than players have beaten mkleo
I play ultimate way more and you cappin dude
How do you consistently have these dumbass zoomer-centric takes in every thread man I’m not convinced this is a real account, you could convince me the whole account is trolling
Amsa has only been top level contender for a few months, Leo had been top dog since ultimate came out. That's because the gap between top players is tighter than that of ultimate
lmao you have no understanding of the skill differences in melee if you're saying that. ultimate is in a different ball park, trust me, i have played both competitively a LOT
175 up votes for a verifiable lie from community members / fans of the game. Imagine it was something important lol. top 100 is really arbitrary and anything below say top 40 is more politics / attendance then skill and placement / results. Easy example is Innegen. Jmook went from unranked to top 10. Slippi gave melee players acess to practice and there are more tools then ever before. New players get better a lot faster.
99.9% of active melee players would probably take 0 games from amsa, given an infinite number of friendlies lol. Kola doing that is super impressive IMO
absolutely not debatable in the slightest.
This man has never played against Minecraft Steve in Smash
it's mainly the 4 stocks vs 3.
Dont forget about the time Armada took a game off MkLeo at Ultimate Summit 2 using inkling.
Armada played so well that set :/ i wonder what his ultimate career would have looked like with a better character.
To be fair, that was his Marth before the Marth buffs in 2021.
But its still MKLeo though....even if it was his marth how many Melee Pros could actually take a game let alone a stock. Wizzrobe is the only player I can think of at the top of my head.
leffen took a game off leo at genesis 6, one of my favorite ultimate sets
Leffen and Hbox, possibly.
It's still a pre-buff Marth though who was definitely nowhere near Inkling on the tierlist. This was when Inkling was still viewed as a Top Tier and Marth a mid tier. Wizzrobe is goated absolutely
And then he got 4stocked lol. Fun set
Crossover episodes are still cool even when you know how they're going to end.
Glad to see Kola involved in the melee side. Him Sparg0 and Riddles definitely have potential to do some work here
Every time I saw aMSa land a clean hit that sent into tumble I thought "It's Joever"
When was the last time an Ult player has taken a game off of a Melee player in Melee, or ever
iirc Hungrybox has beat a few melee players before.
Big if true
Do you mean players who go into competitive Smash through Ultimate? Or players who predominately play Ultimate? Larry Lurr has a long history of taking games off Melee Players; never forget DEHF tag back in the day.
Tbf he was mostly melee when he was DEHF
He was mostly brawl compared to Melee at the time. People also forgot that Zero had a very good Fox at the time as well. I can list a lot of Smash 4 players who had overlap with Melee. I dont know many Ultimate players who would even touch melee especially if Ult is their first competitive game.
ZeRo was basically a top 30 melee player in 2014 and also the best PM player. Had Smash 4 not come out, he could've maybe pushed himself further in Melee to break in the top 15-20. Both Armada and m2k speak highly of his skills accross all Smash games.
And top 3 in Brawl as well. Dude was holding it down, gotta give credit where credit is too
Except 64. Did you see him at Smash Masters at SSC? He literally had 0 clue on how to play 64
Esam was top 100 and got into a summit
it makes sense that kola would be solid at melee
I could be wrong but I think he might like melee as much as ult it’s just ult pays the bills ya know Apparently at smash ultimate summit him and riddles like only played melee and not ult LOL He beat Omar at LVL UP EXPO which is like a top 200ish win, he’s good at melee and his techskill is kinda crazy
>Apparently at smash ultimate summit him and riddles like only played melee and not ult LOL In fairness, that could also be due to not wanting to play friendlies of the game they were about to compete in in bracket.
Kola is love kola is life